Allan Harris: A Jazz Legend’s Hard-Earned Lessons (Best Of)

Episode Transcript
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Larry Samuels (00:02):
How does someone learn to become a talented
musician and then master the artof being a great band leader?
And once you've done that, howdo you break through?
We'll explore the answer tothose questions and beyond,
during this best of edition ofno Wrong Choices, featuring
critically acclaimed musicianAllan Harris.
We'll be back with new episodesin early February.

(00:23):
I'm Larry Samuels, soon to bejoined by my collaborators Larry
Shea and Tushar Saxena.
Before we kick off, we do askthat you support our work by
liking and following no WrongChoices on your favorite podcast
platform.
Now let's get started with ouroriginal setup of this great
conversation.
Larry Shea is the only memberof this show with a music degree

(00:45):
.
You are undoubtedly the rightperson to set up this
conversation, so take it away.

Larry Shea (00:50):
You know, every once in a while I have to pull out
that music performance degreeand show you guys right.

Today's the day.

Tushar Saxena (00:56):
That's right.

Larry Shea (00:57):
Next to the meteorological degree.
I have the music.
No, I did.
I studied music in college andit was a love affair of mine and
unfortunately I had to quit.
It was drums, percussion,specifically, but I played a lot
of jazz music in college pops,bands, things of that nature and
it was a thrill and it'ssomething I miss to this day
because of player somebody whowas so dedicated to his craft

(01:26):
and had to wear the business hatand the marketing hat and shred
in his basement and figure outexactly how to master his
instrument.
It takes a lot of dedicationand I know there's a lot of
people out there who are superinterested in getting inside the
mind of a professional musician.
This is your opportunity andit's pretty exciting to talk to
a guy of this caliber.

Yeah, I mean, as you said, shay, I mean we're
going to learn a lot about howthis is not show friends, it's
show business.
I grew up listening to folkslike Charles Mingus, jack
Teagarden, wynton Marsalis theseare just a few of the names
that kind of just pop into myhead who have, like, influenced
me, and I still listen to the tothis day uh, so the opportunity

(02:07):
to listen to a man, uh, to getto speak to a guy like Alan
Harris is, you know, it's kindof, it's kind of once it's not
once in a lifetime, but it's avery, it's a very rare
opportunity to speak to anartist of this type of caliber.
Caliber, especially, someonewho is so high up in this, in
the field of, uh, you, americanstandards.
You know they're, his mentorsare who are who else?
But you know Tony Bennett, youknow Frank Sinatra, nat King

(02:29):
Cole giants in the field, giantswho are, you know, who are so
ingrained in the Americanstandard and the American
standards book that you know youcan't think of a single song
out there that these men havenot, at one point, at one point
or another, put on an album.

And this is the type of caliber of artist that
we're talking here today withAlan Harris, yeah, and for me,
as somebody who has seen himperform multiple times I've
heard him tell his story onstage I'm now looking forward to
hearing him tell his story on apodcast.
So with that, here is AlanHarris.
Now joining no Wrong Choices isthe award-winning Harlem-based

(03:04):
jazz R&B musician Alan Harris,who Tony Bennett once referred
to as his favorite singer.
Alan, thank you so much forjoining us today.

Allan Harris (03:13):
Oh, thank you for having me guys.

Larry Shea (03:15):
So, as a world-class musician, you know you always
have that moment, that lightthat goes on when you're a child
perhaps, or you hear a piece ofmusic or something magical
happens.
Do you have that magicalmusical memory from your
childhood or something thatpointed you in the direction of
this career path?

I have a myriad of them, but one that really,
really stands out and I think isa little juicier than the other
ones I have is what age are wewhen we're 10 years old?
What age is that?
What grade is that?
When you're 10 years old?
What age is that?
What grade is that when you're10?

I want to say it's like fourth grade, yeah,
fourth or fifth grade.

Okay, it was around that time I was about 10
years old.
I was coming home from school,which was two blocks where I
lived, with a Catholic schoolcalled St Matthew's and it was
raining.
And on my way home I had topass by a barbershop called
Cook's Barbershop and he cut allthe kids of color hair in the
neighborhood and if you didn'thave any money what you do is

(04:13):
sign a book and you pay.
The parents would come in andpay.
He was a wonderful guy.
I remember walking in there, thejukebox.
It was a typical barbershop,very stereotyped black guy
sitting around reading newspaper, listening to records and
listening to a jukebox andpontificating on what was
happening during that time inthe late 60s.

(04:33):
And as I walked past I saw alife-size poster on the picture
window of the barbershop whichyou usually put things up there,
and it was a man of color, talland lean, in a light-skinned
buckskin suede jacket withfringes.

(04:53):
He was playing a whiteStratocaster.
He had a psychedelic headband,big fro, and he was looking out
the poster the picture hadlooking from behind, looking out
over this sea of faces, thisbig field of white, black,
yellow faces didn't matter, andthey all had their mouth open
and dancing in the poster andthe top of it said Jimi Hendrix

(05:14):
live at Woodstock.
And it just blew my mind.
Yeah, yeah, I know it blew mymind as I was sitting there I'm
listening to the music comingout, because they were playing
Purple Haze and all these eldermen of color in there were just
bitching and complaining.
I remember one of them said Iknew him when he was playing
with King Curtis.

(05:34):
Then he went over there toEngland and started to play that
white boy shit, turned up theblues real loud and I remember
him throwing the album cover onthe floor of the barbershop and
Mr Cook came outside and saidcome on inside, get out of the
rain.
And I picked it up and juststudied it and he said you want
this record?
I said yeah, I'd love it.
I took it home and I wore thatrecord out and I think that was

(05:56):
the impetus for me to reallywant to be an entertainer and a
singer and a guitarist to thepoint that I am now.

But you're obviously I mean obviously,
you're a renowned jazzaficionado, a jazz vocalist,
jazz guitarist, and Hendrix is arock icon.
Did you want to, did youinitially say, okay, I want to
be a rock god like Hendrix?

No, not really.
It wasn't that I wanted toemulate him, hendrix no, not
really.
It wasn't that I wanted toemulate him.
I was enamored with him aseveryone else was.
In all the genres during thattime, whether it was Motown or
country or jazz.
Everyone was enamored withHendrix not because of his
playing but because of what hebrought to the table as a man of
color in the industry.

(06:43):
He was the first man of colorthat I looked at and most people
of color looked at, as hedidn't skin a grin.
He wasn't sitting on a stumpdoing a blues which I like, of
course.
He made those he made.
He didn't make any excusesabout what he was on the stage.
He just was a warrior on parwith Clapton and all of them,

(07:03):
with Jeff Beck, and he was justa monster to me and it affected
my psyche.
It empowered me to venture intothis world of music, a little
more strong than just being awonderful jazz artist sitting
behind a microphone doingstandards from the songbook to
people.
He stretched the membrane in mymind, a membrane in my mind.

So how did you get started?
You had the inspiration, youhad the vision, you had the role
model, so to speak.
How did you start?
My mother was a classicalpianist.

You know she was from Hamlin, north Carolina, and
she moved to New York with herfamily.
Of course it was a conduitdiaspora.
Everybody.
If you had money, it was aconduit diaspora.
Everybody.
If you had money, it was duringthe Harlem Renaissance.
If you had money, you'd send itback home to people, and who
could ever make it back up north?
They had a place to stay untilthey got on their feet.
My mother was a recipient ofthat, plus being a prodigy.

(08:00):
She was the first graduatingclass of performing arts and she
wanted me to play piano.
She was a strict tactician,believe me.
Basically she was.
She bought it on cruelty backin those days and, yeah, she
really did.
She wanted her son to beneoclassical and every one time
I was listening to a bluesrecord, a Muddy Waters, and she
freaked out, said I'm not goingto have no son of mine sitting

(08:22):
on a damn stump singing thatMuddy Waters she didn't want you
to freaked out.

I said I'm not going to have no son of mine
sitting on a damn stone singingthat damn song Can you believe
that I know, but there was afoil.

I had a person in the household who was her sister
, who was an opera and bluessinger, and I used to go
upstairs to her place where shehad it she had the top floor and
listened to her records.
Anyway, she brought a friend ofmine Dwayne Morrison was his
name.
I remember in the third gradehe bought a guitar.
I'm not a player, but I wasenamored with it.

(08:53):
I used to go over to his houseand play Peter.

Gunn.

Gyrate, in front of the mirror, in front of all
my friends.
My aunt, for my birthday,bought me a guitar and she hid
it upstairs because she wantedmy mother to know that I had it.
And after seeing that posterwith Jimi Hendrix, it really
prompted me to not just pick upthe guitar and rock and roll,
but just to study it morediligently until my mother found
out about it.

(09:18):
But that's another story.

Larry Shea (09:20):
I'm always fascinated with that.
So you kind of I mean, if youreally do want to look at it,
you did have the best of bothworlds right, because you need
the tactician stuff, thediscipline right that your mom's
classical training maybe gaveyou, and then you also had your
grounded roots in man I justlove this and I need to do it
for my life, right.

So you kind of did have the best of both worlds
there did have the best of bothworlds there, along with that
moment of discovery, picking theguitar and empowering myself
from just that one moment in therain looking at that picture on
the window.
I also had the benefit ofspending weekends every now and

(10:00):
then at my Aunt Kate's.
My Aunt Kate had a soul foodrestaurant at the Apollo Theater
, right around the corner fromthe Apollo Theater, called
Kate's Soul Food, and if youGoogle or look up Jimmy Smith's
album called Home Cooking, he'sstanding in front of it and I'd
go up there on Sunday with themBack in those days, you know a
kid had to.
I don't know how you wereraised, but you know I was

(10:22):
basically my family's indenturedservant until the right was
passed along to someone else.
Right you know the old adagethat if they would give you
until you pay rent, until you,you know, until your name is on
a mortgage, just shut up.
That's what it was.
That's it.
So I grew up there, right.
So I grew up there Right.
So I grew up there with my auntand some other relatives my

(10:45):
mother, for Sundays.
It wasn't called brunch at thattime.
I don't know where that namecame in the fold, but for people
of color it was just calledgoing to eat on a Sunday
afternoon and I would go upthere with them and sit there on
one of the stools and watch amyriad of stars come and get

(11:06):
their food between their shows,because back then stars
performed the apollo and theydid five shows a day.
Wow, wow, yeah, I know.
And children got in matinees onsunday for free.
So before the call came for meto go with them uh, next door,
the policy of the matinee Iwould sit there and watch Sarah
Vaughan or one of theTemptations come in, or Duke

(11:29):
Ellington would come in andthey'd all have robes on, or
whatever Jerry Butler, cliveMcFadden, and they'd get their
favorite dish that my aunt knewwhat they wanted and cooked for
them.
They'd take it back to theirdress rooms, which I never was
privy to and I just was enamoredwith that cook for them.
They take it back to theirdress rooms, which I never was
privy to and I I just wasenamored with that.
And then then couple that withme going to see them an hour

(11:51):
later and seeing the same personI saw on the hair wrapped up
because everyone conked theirhair back then and robes.
I'd see them in these silkunbelievable outfits and ruffled
shirts, singing these Motownsongs or Sarah Barman come out,
or Ella Fitzgerald.
So I had that to uh, tostraddle the rock and roll, roll

(12:13):
, um influences that I was goingthrough.

Alan, can you?
Can you run through?
So you mentioned EllaFitzgerald can you run through a
list of the people that wouldcome through?
That would blow our minds Wellwhat would blow what?

Can you run through a list of the people
that would come through thatwould blow our minds?
Well, what would blow what blewmy mind?
I can just take you just from achild of 10 to 12, which I was
at the time and what perked myinterest, and I can't speak for
your audiences, but maybe I'msure there's something they can
glean from it.
One of the few of the artiststhat really blew me away was

(12:45):
Jackie Wilson.
For one, seeing Jackie Wilsonperform was just something out
of Cirque du Soleil going at achicken shack.
It was just amazing what he didwith his voice and everything.
Little Anthony, imperials, ofcourse, the Temptation.
And then you would see.
You would see maybe ArthurPrysock or Jerry Butler.

(13:08):
I never got to see Sam Cooke.
That was a little bit before mytime.
What else, oh?
This is in my mind even to thisday.
My mother's not with us anymore, but I remember sitting there a
half an hour prior to walkingaround the back of the

(13:29):
restaurant to go to the Apollo.
We went in the back way becauseshe knew them.
I remember my mother, my auntand all the other women who were
in that little bevy with them.
Let out a yell, a scream.
That was almost something fromthe Lawrence of Arabia.

Larry Shea (13:48):
It was pretty daunting.

Now you got to bear in mind.
I'm watching this woman who'svery neoclassical, graduated
from performing arts, very stoicin that I'm watching her lose
her mind and scream.
And they scream, oh, marvin,and Marvin Gaye walks in.
Oh my God, I know, I know, itwas unbelievable my mother
turned into like a 13-year-oldlittle girl on the banks of the

(14:11):
Mississippi and Memphissomewhere.
I couldn't believe it.
My mother, she was.
They were gone.
Oh my God, marvin Gaye, I wasscreaming.

Larry Shea (14:18):
This is my mother.

Like.
I said the woman who used towhoop my butt, like I said, the
woman who used to whoop my butt.
I was just blowing my butt.

Who never wanted you to listen to Muddy Waters?
Marvin Gaye was his kryptonitethat was okay, go, figure Go
figure.

You know what I mean.
I know how dare she, how darethat woman, how dare she.
But I remember.
But this was really funnybecause my father was a very
upright guy.
He came from Pennsylvania, hedid rodeo and that my father was
wild.
He was from that ilk ofmachismo stuff.

(14:52):
He respected my mother but sheknew what bounded across.
I remember going on the subwayhome with her and I looked over
and I said Ma wow, marvin Gaye,you really like him.
I could tell she was gettingher head set together before she
walked into the house with meand she turned to me and she
says I have no idea what you'retalking about, young man, let's
go home.

It never happened .

I caught the vibe right.
Then I said okay, yep, allright, okay, all right, mom.

There are certain things that are off limits at
all times.

Oh, that was it, that was it.

So, Alan, I guess my question would be you know,
when did you start to takethings seriously and really
start to work at it, Like, whendid this become a craft that you
were really honing?

I was.
I think I was 16 years old.
As a matter of fact, I know Iknew I was 16 years old.
I was in Pittsburgh at the timebecause my family had moved
there, because my grandfatherhad a farm there and we took it
over.
And I used to go intoPittsburgh when I was 16 and be

(15:59):
involved in a lot of jamsessions and I was mentored by
this incredible drummer namedRoger Humphreys.
And Roger Humphreys played withGeorge Benson.
He played with StanleyTurrentine.
He was one of those journeymenwho toured for a long time and
he got a family and he stayed inPittsburgh and taught and he
just really schooled a lot ofyoung wannabe musicians.

(16:23):
Yours truly schooled a lot ofyoung wannabe musicians, yours
truly.
I remember I was in a band withhim and he let me get on stage
and I started to sing a fewsongs and play the guitar and he
stopped in the middle of thesong.
It was a crowded evening, notthere to see me but to see him
and he let youngsters come up.
As a matter of fact, one of theguys who was in the band is a
friend of mine known for30-something years, maybe 40

(16:44):
years.
He's a bass player here in towncalled Leon Dorsey.
Would you know him?
No, that's okay, no no, he's anold friend of mine, he's at
Berklee.
Anyway, I remember being onstage with him.
He called out a standard whichI didn't know, but I was faking
it.
I was playing a little bit ofR&B riffs on the guitar.

(17:05):
He stopped 30 seconds into thesong, just stopped the whole
band in front of a crowded houseof crowded people on a Saturday
night and he said boy, you needto get off the stage.
I said huh.
He said you need to learn themelody and learn the song and

(17:28):
then, when you learn your craft,then you can come back.
And I literally slinked off thestage.
I remember I did.
I left my chords and one pedal.
I had a wah-wah pedal, one ofthe big muffs.
I left it there and came backtwo days later to get it and it
took me a lot of courage to dothat.
That was a turning point whereI really got serious.

(17:50):
I really did Because I soughtout those instrumentalists who
played with him and they had alot of I wouldn't say their
sympathy for me.
Basically they felt sorry whenit happened that night because
it was pretty demonstrative.
Even the crowd felt bad.
But Roger Humphrey was that wayand to this day he laughs about
that.
He's 80 now and I love him.
I see him in Pittsburgh all thetime and I remember that was my

(18:14):
first foray into reallybecoming serious, not just on my
guitar but serious in my vocalprowess, and that was a turning
point.

Larry Shea (18:25):
That's pretty amazing.
You know we, every musician hasthat train wreck moment or that
moment of trepidation of youlike, oh my god, I can't believe
that.
Just that just happened andhere you had it so early on in
your career.
The courage to get back up onthat stage or to go and find the
real book and study those jazzstandards right and get those
under your belt Exactly Musthave taken, you know, some real

(18:48):
moxie from a 16 or however old.
You were kid back then becausethat's a devastating moment at
that point.

It was more than devastating.
It was life changing and therewas a moment there I think it
was maybe a month after that ittook me a month to really
recover from that.
As I remember, I didn't eventouch the guitar for three weeks
.
I was pretty sullen.
I think what pulled me out ofit was friends that I had been

(19:17):
playing with, who they were in aband.
They were doing Earth, wind andFire and that ilk.
A couple of the members in theband had played with Roger every
night in a jam session and theywere the ones that were very
sympathetic to me.
And as I heard someone, I heardyou mention the real book.
One of them did give me thereal book.
They gave me the real book andI remember going through it and

(19:40):
learning the chords and learningthe notation of it and just
sitting in my bedroom by myselfand going through these songs, I
said I'm going to learn 10songs and go back and just knock
Roger out, which I did.
I went back maybe two monthslater and he made me wait an
hour and a half before he calledme up.
Literally, he knew what he wasdoing, he knew human psyche, he

(20:03):
really did.
I had to give him credit and hewaited an hour and a half and he
said you're going to come anddo a song, what are you going to
do?
And I remember it was.
Oh God, what was it?
I can't remember now.
You Go to my Head, yes, you Goto my Head, you.

Larry Shea (20:20):
Go to my.

Head and I sang it really straight Nat King
Cole-ish sort of style.
And that was the turning pointfor me, because not only did he
welcome me into his little foldof artists who sat at his feet,
he gave me the impetus and thecourage to go further into this
thing called music that'sbeautiful, because we talk on

(20:43):
the show all the time aboutthose turning moments, right,
because it could have gone a lotdifferent.

Larry Shea (20:48):
You know, if you got up on stage and he didn't teach
you that lesson, that, hey, youbetter know this melody, cause
we all know the melody, right?
We all know what's supposed tohappen up here.
And so at this point in yourlife, you, you're shredding
right Like you're, like sittingin your house, like doing
everything you can to get up tospeed with where you think you
need to be as a musician I knowI was, until I met that wall

(21:13):
that we all meet.

Sure, there is a wall that everyone meets.
And I met this wall and itdidn't deter me.
I didn't smash into the wall, Ididn't go around it or leap
over the wall.
I remember standing in front ofit and really analyzing what it
is I need to do to become oneof those bricks in the wall

(21:35):
because I'm not going to getthrough it.
And our case in point was it was1975, and I had gotten an album
from a guitar friend of mine bya guitarist named Pat Martino
and it was a record calledJoyous Lake and he was in town,
a little boutique guitar shopthat sat only 30 people and I'd
go in all the time and play LesPauls and Stratocasters and once

(21:57):
a month they would have specialguests come in.
They'd clear out the wholefront of the store out, have
tables and chairs.
They'd have an artist come andplay wherever he was.
And when Pat Martini was there,my wife, for her birthday
present, surprisingly bought metickets for it at that time 75.
I was dating her and that was aturning point for me because I

(22:21):
realized I'm never going tobecome that guitarist.
I'm never going to become thatguitarist.
You know I'm going to be.
You know I'm not going to be aGeorge Benson or Pat Metheny or
Pat Martino.
I understand what they do, do alot of practice.
I could play a few songs onstage but I'll never become that
regimented and that genius onthat level.
But I can immerse myself intowhat they do and find out what

(22:45):
I'm about and that's what helpedme.
At what age was this?
Roughly that age, I was 20.
I was 20 years old at that time.

So roughly in your early 20s did you say to
yourself at some point okay, Iwant to go from being a member
of the band to being the leaderof the band well, the leader of
the band happened, uh, not by um, um wrote, or it didn't happen
because I planned it or set agoal.

That's what I want to be.
I became new to the bandbecause my synopsis and getting
things done coming from thebackground that I have from my
mother and also my grandfatherwe didn't even touch upon that,
but I will my grandfather, histraining when I was 12 to 15,

(23:36):
working with him in the field,in the barn, whatever he.
What is the term?
Something no fools.
What is it?
Sweat no fools.
What's the term?

He doesn't suffer any fools.

He doesn't suffer any fools and he laid that on me
.
I use that line all the time mygrandfather loved it.
I hate when he does that.
He had four lines, but that wasa major one.
The other one was do as I say,not as I do.
Or this famous one was thisthere's three ways to do things,
son.

The right way, the wrong way and my way, you
know, he's that one too.

So I come from a background of that where you put
your nose in a grindstone whenyou're in your 20s.
You're not really serious, butyou're.
Let me say I was thankful to besurrounded by my peers who were

(24:35):
that age, who were serious myfriend, leon Dorsey, I remember
he was going to Oberlin.
Another friend was going toDuquesne, another guy he was
going to Berkeley, another guyhe's going to berkeley.
So I was around surrounded bythose, uh, my peers, who did
play r&b and blues and rock withme, but who ventured into jazz
and they came back with such aknowledge of their instrument

(24:57):
that not only do I becomejealous, I became shameful at
times playing with them becauseI wasn't up to their speed and
because I noticed how they wouldtake a.
I mean, I was trying to learnthis song Fragile from yes on
the yes album Close to the Edge,and a guitar player friend of
mine who three years prior tothat I could burn him.

(25:19):
You know I was just getting onstage and burning him Because of
his acumen at going to schoollearning theory and that playing
jazz.
He came back and just said oh,alan, this is what Steve
Howell's doing.

I said what the fuck so that scared me.

I said if just in a matter of three years he could
propel himself from the arenajust being on stage with me and
bell bottoms and big hair andwe're just jamming to Earth,
wind, fire and shit like that,and just his association in
studying the jazz real book,whatever you take him along that
line, I better get into bedwith these guys.

Larry Shea (26:03):
Yeah, you wanted some of that Of course.

I wanted some of that.
Yes, yeah, yeah, yes, yeah, sothey brought you forward.

They brought me, not not they.
They didn't bring, brought meforward, they kicked me forward
they kicked me forward becausethey were speaking a language
that that, unless that schooland letters gave you that I was
lacking, you know I had.
My ear was up to par, of course, and my antics on stage was

(26:31):
wonderful.
I knew a lot of songs and that.
But because of their knowledgeof, they were well-read and
versed in jazz.
At their age, playing the albumTrey Holmgren's or something
from Machine Head, from DeepPurple, was nothing for them.

So, alan, you're surrounded by this incredible
talent.
You've had so many greatinfluences up to that point.
When did you start to breakthrough, like, what was that
moment and what did that looklike?

I wasn't cognizant of it, believe me, because when
you're 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, youknow all you're thinking about
is do you look good on stage,and how does that little girl
down there in the front row.

Larry Shea (27:13):
Look, you know what I mean.
The important looks.
You know I mean the importantstuff, of course, important
stuff.
You know the whole reason youdo right exactly uh, but what?

what was the question again?
So I don't want to go off thiswhen did you start to break
through?
When did the?
momentum of your career kick inwhen I started to learn some of
these standards and I noticedthat the crowd that I was used
to playing to my crap my buddies, young crowd, you know where
the crowd started to, um, to besaturated more with people who

(27:48):
were a little more well-readwell-read, instead of me reading
, uh, tolkien they were bringing.
I reading Tolkien.
I was in the company of peoplein the audience who were reading
Isaac Asimov and Herman Heschand Sedata, who also knew who
John Coltrane Love Supreme wasand who also knew what Electric

(28:10):
Ladyland was, as well as TreyHombre's.
It was remarkable, the journeythat opened up.
Remarkable, the journey thatopened up for me the world that
opened up for me just fromlearning how to just become a
little more well-read in mygenre.
So that was a turning point.

Larry Shea (28:32):
You have a great quote that you said, that you
said I'm a storyteller throughthe genre of jazz.
It.
Was it always going to be jazz?
Because it sounds like.
You know, as tushar alluded toearlier, you have influences
from everywhere the jimmyhendrix stuff and you know, your
mom's classical stuff.
Was it always going to be jazz?

when I was younger , jazz was jazz me was boring
because I didn't understand it.
I didn't understand it, andwhen you don't understand
something, either you run awayfrom.
Fortunately for me, I was goodin so many other genres that I
that there was a while where Ijust turned my back on jazz.
I figured out, you know whateverslime family stone, but I'll

(29:11):
just get into that, whatever.
Until I started to my peers, mygroup started to be selective
and I hungered for moreknowledge, not just on the stage
, not just with music, just withevents.
You know, people who werewell-read came to my arena and

(29:33):
introduced themselves, who weremy age and who played their
instruments just as well as Idid.
But they had something I didn'thave they had a knowledge of
self through self-awakening,which I didn't know at that time
, at age 20.
I was just still filling myoats and looking trim and
whatever, and that perked myinterest because I, I, I, I went

(29:56):
on tour, a mini tour with, witha couple of guys that I had.
Really I was enamored with themand they took me to a resort to
make some money and at thatresort that I was at, where they
played, we played five nights aweek, they fed us, we had a
hotel room.
It was near the water, thebeach, it was great.

(30:18):
But that resort was full of alot of people.
It wasn't your typical club,med, walt Disney sort of people,
you know.
The resort catered to aclientele whose children went to
Brown, william, mary, you know,at Columbia University.
They were children and peoplewho were there at the resort who

(30:40):
not only were well-read butthey were well-versed in a lot
of things.
That enhanced the mind, and Idon't say I was jealous, I was
intimidated by them, I reallywas and that spurred me on to
read not just read more, butjust to learn my instrument.
More than just listening andcopying Jimmy Page licks or Herb

(31:04):
Ellis licks or George Bensonlicks, I started to find out
that through self-awareness andreading I could develop my own
sound, which I never reallythought I could, and that was a
big turning point for me.

Alan, I want to kind of you touched upon it just
a moment ago the notion of lifeon the road, and I kind of want
to I want to touch on that alittle bit Like this idea of, as
a first of all, as a youngmusician, life on the road
obviously, and life on the roadfor any musician is a big key to
obviously getting your name outthere and honing the craft et

(31:42):
cetera.
But how has that transition nowbeen as you have gone through
your musical life, the notion ofbeing on the road?
Is it easier now?
Is it harder now?
Was it much easier as a young,as a younger man, or tougher as
a younger man?

It was that's a double-edged question.
Um, I think it was easier whenI was younger, because ignorance
is bliss.
You know, when you're young andyou're just filling your oats,
you're just out, you're just outthere in the pasture just
running wild.
You know, um, as as I got older, I started to look at other

(32:17):
things other than just being onthe road and having fun and
having a drink and looking atpretty girls and where we're
going to go.
At night there's a jam sessiondown.
We're in Philadelphia doing ashow or watching these things.

I mean, the lifestyle is totally different.
Right, the lifestyle is totallydifferent.

It is totally different, it definitely is.
The lifestyle is totallydifferent.
It is totally different, itdefinitely is.
And because of that, now thatI'm older, the road to me now is
a series of growth through,coupled with just reuniting with
old friends that I've garnishedthrough the years.
And I go see them.
I see how they've moved on withtheir lives children, houses,

(32:55):
whatever and they come to myshows whenever town I'm in and I
had that experience.
I'm an older guy now and whenI'm off the stage we have dinner
.
I'm just going back and we'reall talking about what we've
been doing between not seeingeach other.
So the road is different for menow.
Unfortunately, for the youngerguys in my band, I'm learning to

(33:18):
let them run free because someof the guys in my band are 15
years younger than me in that.

Larry Shea (33:22):
They don't understand why after the gig.

I just want to go back to this friend's house out
in the country.
They don't want to go with me.
Oh well, there's a jam sessiondowntown Philadelphia.
We want to go.
There's a lot of chicks there.
I said, okay, well, I'm goingto go.
You know, they got thiswonderful malt.
They got this whatever 16 yearold malt maker or whatever it is

(33:46):
there and they want me to tryout.
And then we go to their houseand we're just going to talk.
So the road is different for menow it is.

Larry Shea (33:57):
It's fun, but it's different.
So you have, you know, you getthat first experience on at that
gig and do you start giggingright away, you know, piecing it
together with friends.
Is it friends there who, hey, Ineed the vocalist, I need a
guitar player, let's come along,there's another tour and
another tour.
Or were there gaps and was ithard to piece together that,
that lifetime of of music thatyou put together?
I mean that couldn't have beeneasy.

(34:18):
No, it's.

it's hard.
It's hard if you aren't selfishwith your talent, and let me
explain that.
I don't seem to come off as olddorsey as you hear.
Um, it's hard when, when youhave a myriad of your close
friends, you, you know, you'reyoung guys hanging out, you're
playing music, blah, blah, blah.

(34:41):
He's dating this chick, you'redating that chick.
And it's hard when you developpast them.
You develop past them musically, develop past them musically,
but your heart is still withthem as friends and nothing's

(35:03):
more than just having to tell afellow musician that they're
really not good enough to travelthis road with you anymore.
That's the hard part.
That's a really hard part, andI admire artists who can do that
without harming the friendship.
When you're young, you don'thave to wear with all that.
You just say, look, I'm justgoing to move on.
And that was the hardest thing,because I still have.

(35:24):
I run into friends from thosedays who come to my shows every
now and then.
Now they're older, they havechildren, they've gone back to
school and, you know, becomelawyers, whatever it is, and I
see they had that longing lookfrom the audience.
When I look at them, that lookof there, go.
I, for the grace of God, youknow and also, but then you can

(35:46):
also tell.
Behind that clouded look,there's also a little resentment
of how I treated them at thattime because I was young.
Little resentment of how Itreated them at that time
because I was young.
And how do you tell someonewhen you're 20 years old that
you know it's like leaving thegirlfriend or the girlfriend
dropping you.
You know, when you moved onBecause it's all about growth

(36:06):
with music or with the arts.
You know, when you find a groupof another entourage, a group
of people, another mentor,another, whatever it is, and
you're going to grow, you haveto make a hard choice in looking
behind you, over your shoulderand those who can't grow with
you.
Either you die with them in thesand or you move on across that

(36:27):
hill, which I did many times.
I'm still doing it now.

So, Alan, as a part of that, as you pushed on
to that next phase, how did youdevelop a stage presence?
What became your style?
Who were your mentors as youdeveloped your presence there?

was a number of them and there's a fence that
separates some of them.
I mean, there's a fence.
There's the Americana Well,it's called Americana, now it
wasn't back then which envelopedrock and roll, blues, a little
bit of soft country, folk and,of course, r&b and funk.

(37:05):
I mean, that was that one sideof it.
The other side was, the seriousside, was jazz, and I started
to look at the artists in bothgenres, in all those genres, and
I started not to emulate thembut to find out.
Why does someone like OscarPeterson, why would someone sit

(37:25):
there for three hours and watchthe Grateful Dead or Robert
Plant sing Stairway to Heaven?
I started to look at what it isthat they are doing, not just
capture their audience and toenthrall them, that people
really can listen.
Let's sit in a chair and listento that record and go into
another world.
What is it?
And it's telling a story.

(37:47):
And I, and and I had no ideawhat that was, and bear in mind
I'm 25, 26, going on 30 I had noidea what that was and bear in
mind I'm 25, 26, going on 30.
I had no idea what telling thestory was.
I just figured you get on stage, you gyrate, you know, you play
your acts, you sing the song,you do all your machinations
with your band and boom, you puton a great show and people clap
, sweat and that's it.

(38:07):
But I realized that you have torepeat that night after night,
which is why a lot of groupsburn out and they change members
in the band or they just walkaway.
They just say, like Joe Perryfrom Journey, he just said fuck
it.
Excuse my language, oops, sorry, I'm not supposed to.

It's all right, it's quite all right, we check
the E for explicit Say whatWhether you're smart or not, it
was getting an E.
Okay, explicit say what episodewas it getting any?
Okay, good, all right, well,look at some of these, you know.

look at some of the, like barry sanders from the
detroit lions, the halfback.
When you look at people who areat the top of their game, when
you, looking at from afar, theaudience viewpoint, you say why
would they my favorite group?
Why did they break up?
And you realize that, um, it'sa growth period because after a
while you become which is why Iadmire the Stones.
They're doing the same thingfor 40 years over and over again

(38:57):
.
I don't know how they do it,but anyway, that's another story
.
You get to the point where it'snot that you become bored with
what you've done, what's madeyou hit or why the audience
comes see you.
It's just that where you werefive years ago with the audience
, they're still there, butyou've grown.
You've grown.
The audience doesn't know thatthey're still back in what

(39:18):
they've heard you do five yearsago and you did it well, and
they want you to do it over andover again.
And you have a choice Eitheryou find out how to grow and
take your audience with you, oryou become bitter, disband your
band and just wander from showto show and next thing you know
you're doing Las Vegas orwhatever you know.

So did I answer that a little bit.
Do you have a trick of thetrade, so to speak, for how you
connect, Like when you walk in aroom?
Is there something you do thatgrabs everybody right away?

that you've learned over the years everybody
right away that you've learnedover the years.
Well, when I'm on stage, thefirst thing I do is, before I'm
even on stage, is I study thearena or the environment that
I'm going to play in, because Imake sure and I'm adamant about
that, I make sure that my bandas well as myself get there way

(40:11):
before start time, and I've hadband members young of course who
bitch about that, you know.
Oh man, the game is at 7o'clock.
Why are you getting here at 6?
Because we need to feel theflavor of the room.
I need to feel what kind ofroom.

An hour before they're bitching about that.
Get out of here.

Yeah, you'd be surprised.
And I say I need the flavor ofthe room and they say you need
to favor the room and they saidwhy.
It might be raining outside,the parking lot might be muddy
and people are mad because theygot to walk through the mud to
sit down.
Or it might be a Thursday nightand the regular staff that they
used to come see at the clubisn't there.
They have a substitute staff.
Or and this has happened to mein my early development of my
career, it happened justrecently they might be expecting

(40:56):
another act and get there andfind out that that act is
substituted by me and maybe athird of the people know who I
am.
Two thirds don't.
So you have to actually read theaudience way before you get on
the stage.
And I hang in the wings and Ilisten to their conversations, I
listen to how they are and Itip one of the head waiters and
I tell them.
And I tip one of the headwaiters and I tell them come

(41:16):
backstage every once in a whileand give me a check on what's
happening, let me know who'sdisgruntled, let me know who I
need to look out for in theaudience, and just give me a
feel of the playing field andyou become real good at that
after a while and you get to apoint, where I'm at now, where I
don't even need to do that.
I can tell immediately when Iget there the whole energy level

(41:40):
of the place, through theworkers to the staff, the sound
crew, the roadies.
I know the flavor of it and onthat mark I alter my show to
that.
What show I might have donelast night at Idaho Falls, you
know, at Idaho whatever, atwhatever Sioux Falls, here I am
in Des Moines, iowa, the nextday and it might be a different

(42:03):
type of crowd.
So I might do the same show butI might have to alter the songs
because they are not ready tohear Happy Song on the first set
.
You know, it's a goddamnblizzard outside the corn crop
ain't coming, that's right.
You know the truck pull wascanceled because the ground

(42:24):
froze over and Trump lost, soyou got to alter the show.
But that comes into play of youtelling your story.
You telling the story andknowing what it is you're going
to say, not just coming outthere and becoming just the
monkey with the organ grinder.
And that took a while and I'mstill learning.

(42:44):
That now, believe it or not, Idon't think you ever get.
You know, yeah, you neveractually learn.
It's like crossing the Rubiconyou can't go back after a while.
You got to keep learning andlearning your story so do you

(43:05):
find?

do you find a bigger difference between
because obviously you'vetraveled around the globe to
many different audiences, so Doyou find a bigger difference
between American audiences andhow receptive they are to you as
compared to audiences in Europe, in Asia, in the Middle East,
et cetera?

Oh, of course.
And the big difference is thiswe, as Americans, are haughty,
and I'm talking about arrogance,I'm not talking about bitching.
We are haughty and I'm talkingabout arrogance and I'm talking
about bitching.
We are haughty and rightly so,because the majority of the
music that we play has beenformulated here.
You know, whether it's,whatever your background,

(43:47):
whether it's Gershwin, orwhether it's British rock or
just a bunch of ex-slaves in thefield hollowing blues or
whatever it is, it's anamalgamation of all of us in
this music called jazz, r&b andcountry.
It is ours.
An old mentor of mine, a verywise man who really was a great

(44:09):
vocal coach, told me that thismusic that we have, this
American music, whether it'sjazz, whatever, is our gift to
the world.
So we carry that with us, evenpeople who don't know a damn
thing about music.
But they go to a concert.
The American audience hasalmost a psychological chip on
his shoulder, and rightly so,not to the point where we beat

(44:31):
our chest.
We are the best.
Let's go, you know, makeAmerica great again.
I keep going into that.
I don't know why.
We'll talk about that in aminute, that's a different
podcast.

Larry Shea (44:41):
That's a different podcast.
Put me back, please put me backPut me back from the shore, put
me back.

I know we're going that way, I'll get it.
Yeah, unlike most audiences andI'm talking about from south of
the border to our European, toour Mediterranean folk, to
Russia, to Japan the Americanaudience takes it for granted
that this is our music.
This is our music and it isrightly so.

(45:08):
It's our birthright asAmericans.
But on that note there's a veryI wouldn't say ugly side.
There's a very demonstrativeside to us.
When you play for an Americanaudience, american audience, you
have to prove something to them.
You really have to provesomething to an American

(45:29):
audience when audiences aroundthe world, they're just happy to
see you just play americanmusic, just play, and it it's,
it's refreshing.
But you have to come back tothe american audience just to
get a reality check.
Because the american yeah,because the american audience,

(45:52):
we are so tainted.
You know we, I, we had Elvis,we had Louis Armstrong, duke
Ellington.
You know Jimi Hendrix, I meaneveryone from Jeff Beck to
whatever, from what's his name,the blind opera singer from
Italy.

Oh, I can't think of him.

I know, but you don't talk.
Oh, I know, but you don't talkabout everyone.

I know exactly Everyone everyone emulates us.

Everybody emulates us, but we take it for granted,
and so do so do we who are onstage, who are telling stories.
But when you were overseas fora while which is why I see a lot
of expats who are musicians whosay I'm leaving America, the
hell with it.
They're going to treat me.
I'm a black guy, I get bettertreatment in Europe.
I'm going over there.

(46:43):
After about four or five yearsthey come scurrying back.
Oh God.
I'm so glad to be back home.

Didn't you like Europe oh?

Europe was wonderful.
It was wonderful.
We went everywhere.
They treated us so right.
But I need the grit.
I missed America's grit.

That's what it is , so we're already great.

Is that what you're suggesting?
Sorry, different podcast.
So, Alan, I kind of want tojust touch on one thing you said
a moment ago about thelifestyle and how tough it is to
be a musician.
Like you said, this is not aprofession for the faint of
heart.
But you know, obviously you werementored.

(47:27):
You were obviously mentored andyou said a moment ago you have
been mentored by many musicianson your coming up.
Do you take that responsibility?
Or how do you take thatresponsibility now, as obviously
a senior member of theprofession?
Now Do you want to be more of amentor to younger musicians?
Do you want to be a hands-on ordo you want to be more of an

(47:47):
aloof kind of mentor?

No, I have to be, whether I want to be or not.
I'm like, dragged into it.
I'm dragged into this foyer,this position of being a mentor,
whether I want to or not.
Why I say that?
Because I'm very disenchantedand I'm very upset with what I
see young artists have toexperience to make their way

(48:17):
financially.
That I didn't have to do andlet me reiterate, let me expand
upon that a little bit I wasthere.
I was sitting here during thepandemic, right before the
pandemic, and they had theGrammys on and they had.
There was a song that won theGrammys with Minaj.

(48:38):
What's her name?
Nicki Minaj, megan Stallion,that's her name.

And it was called it was called WAP.

That was the song, and I don't know if I yeah, I
didn't know what it stands for,right, yeah, yeah, and I saw
okay.
I said, okay, you know they,they were gonna make a dime.
You know they're makingmillions, which is cool, I'm not
hating.
But then I saw the.
I saw the performance that theydid on stage and if you saw it,

(49:08):
it was.
I mean, I wish I had a dollarbill.
I don't go to trips and eatclubs, but it was time, it was,
it was similar to that, butthat's what it felt like.
Not just did it win a Grammy, itinfluenced a myriad of young
artists who watched that, whofigured that that's the
direction I need to go into inorder for me to make money and
to make my mark, which was justpap in my opinion.

(49:30):
And because of that, I haveyounger musicians in my band who
every once in a while they'llin their free time on the tour
bus, they'll play something thatI'll have to turn and look at
them as, and I feel like I'm mygrandfather at these moments
where they're and these are, andmy musicians are very schooled.
Some of them come from Rutgersand Berklee and New School and

(49:53):
Manhattan School of Music.
They're very schooled, butthere's something that has
seeped into the psyche of theyoungsters now that I didn't
have happen to me, and that isin order to make money.
They will do anything, Anything, which really is unbelievable.
Because I'm looking at theseyoung purveyors of my craft, who

(50:17):
are well-read, well-traveledbecause they're on the road with
me, and who can play their assoff on their instruments, who
are bopping up and down to thesesongs.
I don't know a thing aboutusing the N-word or whatever,

(50:38):
whatever.
So I've almost taken it uponmyself to not to guide them, but
just to show them that what itis that we, as Americans, have
gotten to this point where weyes, there was civil rights.
Yes, there was racism.
Yes.
Yes, Jim Crow, yes, yes, yes,yes.
But underneath all that, therestill was self-worth that you
had inside your house.

And I try to tell my musicians that even when
you're on stage there's certainand you feel like some of that's
faded.

Not just faded, it's being washed over, like
with a tsunami of.
My niece said something to methat just encapsulated this and
she it to me and I and I use itall the time I had to argue with
her.
She's she's 22 now and she saidthis when you're 16 and she
doesn't remember it.
Which, when you're 16, youdon't remember what you said
when you're 22, of course, and Iremember I was arguing with her

(51:29):
and she's playing this.
I forgot what music was.
It was blaring seven o'clock atnight.
I ran upstairs.
She was staying with me for 10days.
I said look, daniel, you've gotto turn that shit off please,
just for a minute.
I was going to take her to aclub they were performing
tomorrow.
I said you've really got toturn that off.
She got mad.
She slammed the door.
I said oh, come on.

(51:49):
I opened the door and I saidlook, we need to talk.
She turned to me and sucked herteeth and said uncle alan, if
you're so damn smart, why aren'tyou really rich?
And she slammed the door on me.
Bam, yeah, that was.
That was deep.
Which, which, which?
Which gave me a focus into whatthe youth now is exposed to.

(52:11):
Where the kim kardashian thing,the khani west, whatever it.
That is their whole mantra,their whole pillar of worth.
Your worth in your youthfulsociety that you roam in is
based upon how much money canyou accrue, no matter how yeah

(52:32):
your wallet.

Yeah, your worth is your wallet.

And it doesn't matter how you get it.
It doesn't matter how you getit.
Doesn't matter how you get it,it's such an important
conversation.

Larry Shea (52:40):
It is frightening, so let's put the bow on that
though.
How do you break through andhelp that younger generation,
because I know there's a youngergeneration right now listening
to this podcast?

who?

Larry Shea (52:51):
wants to be a great musician and have the career
that you've been able to haveover the course of your life.
So how do you break through?
What do you say to that that bethe mentor?
What do you say to that personwho is kind of lost with today's
society, with what music isdoing to to young people today?

what do you, what do you say?
Or do you have to expose themto?
You have to spend time withthem instead of just turning
your back and saying, oh, oh,shit, whatever, whatever, do
what you got to do.
You have to spend the time withthem and expose them to the
things and the lessons and therules of thumbs that we had to
live under for a minute.
Of course they're not as toughskinned as we were, because they

(53:29):
weren't when we were growing up.
I mean, I don't know how oldyou guys are.
I can't say we're all rightaround 50.
When you were growing up, itwasn't about, I mean, you had to
go help your uncle, you had towake up and you didn't sit at
the table with a phone up toyour ear and you had to whatever
, and that's just an example.

(53:51):
So that's what I'm doing rightnow.
And I learned you can't shoutat these kids, you can't tell
them.

Larry Shea (53:58):
This is what you need to do?
We were indentured servantsjust like you, just so you know.
Yes, you were, that's right man, yeah.

Yeah, you were.

Mine was the form of delivering pizzas, but it
was the same concept, for sure.
Mowing lawns delivering pizzas,but we all worked our butts off
coming up.

He said, yes, he got a star.

I got no star.
I didn't get a star.

If I came in second.
Oh, I didn't follow that.
No, no participation points.

No participation trophies.
No, stars yes.

Why weren't you in first?
That's what I got, I'd get.
I'd come home with a 90, whydon't you get 95 it?

Larry Shea (54:41):
was not good.
It was never a good job it waswhat's next let's spend time
with them.
That was.
That's a great answer.
I mean, you got to spend thetime like you said.

Yeah, but you have to gird your loins because,
being at the age that we arespending time with them, you
have to waddle through a lot oftheir youthful stuff.
That is really whew.

Well, Alan, now that you have perspective and
you've done so much as you lookback across your career, we
obviously did our research.
Coming into this conversation,we've all seen across the river,
et cetera, et cetera.
Um, you know of of, you knowyour big projects.
You know what are you the mostproud of, if you're able to to

(55:25):
to single things out, what?

would you?

single out.

It was like one of those elevator questions, huh.

Do you have a favorite child?

I know it's a tough question, it's not just
tough.

It's I, I because at the moment of time that I did
each and individual project,that's where my headset was at
that time.
Now there are maybe there's,yeah, there may, there is maybe
one or two.
I'll narrow it down to one that, even though I'm in this place
where I'm at now, uh,emotionally and mentally, it's

(55:59):
still that, even though I'm inthis place where I'm at now,
emotionally and mentally, itstill resonates with me.
I think Cross the River is theone.
Cross the River is the one.
Musically it's not as adept asmy others, of course, but what
it's saying, I think it reflectsmy attempt to empower those,

(56:24):
especially children, not justchildren of color empowered
children who don't know aboutthat history, that one part of
the history of black America,which is the diaspora from the
West, from the South to the WestEveryone knows, from the South
to the North, of course, but noone knows from the South to the
West which in my opinion, wasjust as tantamount and just as

(56:46):
important as that, and I try tobring that out in the show that
I do.

Yeah, which we've all seen online, and it's
fantastic, um.
I've seen you perform live acouple of times.
I have not seen you do that, um, but I've certainly greatly
enjoyed watching you perform.
So, alan, as we, as we lookforward we've talked a lot about
the past.
You know what's next for alanharris I'm going on to.

We'll just encapsulate real quick.
I'm heading to Europe for theholidays Italy and Turkey and
I'm doing some of the BBCorchestra.
I'm doing a tribute to that.
I'm narrating and singing withthe BBC orchestra a tribute to
Charlie Mingus, which is prettydaunting.
Oh, it's great.
I did it earlier in the yearand it came off really well.

(57:35):
But now I have my teeth sunkinto it.
I've had months really bury myheart into it, so I'll kill it
and I have that.
Then I come back in January, Igather my band together and we
do a cross the river tour, youknow, interspersed with some
jazz stuff.
You know, february 3rd untilthe beginning of April I'm doing

(57:56):
a whole thing from Cleveland toLafayette, louisiana, for Texas
.
So I'm starting that why?
Because I'm prepping myself.
I just got five weeks at 59thStreet Theater.
Oh, wow, I did, it justhappened like two days ago.

Larry Shea (58:11):
They want me to go in there.
Congratulations.

That's great.
They're not better players,they're just better
personalities on stage.
We can deliver the songs andthe story.
That's incredible.
Well, alan, you know your yourstory is amazing.

Your journey has been, um, you know, surreal to
see from the outside and to, Iguess, experience a little bit
through this conversation andthrough your performances, and
you know we can't thank youenough for joining us.

Thank we can't thank you enough for joining us
today.
Thank you for this moment withyou.
This is really nice and I don'twant to seem real Marcellus
here, what it is, but it's niceto talk to men of letters for a
change.
It really is I appreciate thatUsually when you're doing these,
when I do interviews, whateverI'm usually dragging the

(59:18):
interviewer along, becausethey're set into one sort of
format, which is nice.

Thank you.
What an incredible opportunitythat was for us to talk to
somebody who is such a master oftheir craft whatever the craft
may be to be so deep and have somuch experience.
But to talk to an artist ofthat caliber was really quite
the experience Touche assomebody who is also a

(59:52):
passionate musician, similar toLarry Shea, as we talked about
off the top.
What are your takeaways fromthat conversation?

I'll tell you this, I was surprised by a
couple of things.
One, obviously, was the journey, uh, from you know the young
musician and this notion of youknow being having his worst
moment and his best moment, kindof being almost the same thing.
You know, being thrown offstage by a mentor and then being
kind of called back on stage bythat same mentor relatively

(01:00:17):
soon after, relatively soonafterwards, and being told look,
you have to improve it.
It takes a, it takes a lot ofguts to first of all get thrown
off stage and then understandwhat you did wrong and then have
the courage to return and say,okay, I can, I can, I can, uh,
redeem myself.
So it takes a lot of courage todo that and we talk about

(01:00:38):
courage a lot on this when we'redoing the podcast.
So it takes a lot of courage todo that.
But the one thing that reallystruck me was, you know, he's
become something of a I don'twant to say reluctant, but he's
become a mentor by default insome ways.
Right, that he feels thisobligation to mentor the younger
generation of artists out there.

(01:00:58):
And not everyone has to do that, not everyone feels they need
to do that, but he feels that hehas a real calling, that he has
to do this Because, as he said,that a lot of this younger
generation of musician, althoughthey have a lot of skill, the
to have the, the, the valuesystem, in some ways may, might
have got a little bit of ride.

Larry Shea (01:01:19):
That was that's what really struck me yeah, you
mentioned a bunch of interestingstuff there, specifically
getting kicked off stage when hewas, you know, first starting
out.
That could have devastated andput a wall up in front of any
other, you know it probablywould have devastated a lot of
people.

Tushar Saxena (01:01:33):
I mean, what a?

difficult, you know, learning lesson this guy had so
early on in his career and itcould have gone a lot of people
right.
I mean, what a difficultlearning lesson this guy had so
early on in his career and itcould have gone a number of
different ways.
But it does seem like in theconversation he talks a lot
about how a lot of thoseobstacles seem to be his
inspiration for just gettingbetter right To just finding
himself in his heart and wherehe wanted to go as a musician.
And I think there is thateureka moment as an artist where

(01:01:56):
you do have to figure out Imean he talked about the Pat
Metheny stuff he was never goingto have the chops that certain
guys had right, but he knew howto do what he did well, and boy
did he.
I mean, look what he's become.
But it just goes to show you youdon't have to shred like Pat
Metheny, you don't have to, youknow, sing like so-and-so, you
just have to find what you do asan artist.

(01:02:18):
That's what art is right.
It's looking within yourself,and he talked so much about it
looking within yourself andfinding what it is that you do
well and what you can entertainpeople with, what's going to
last, and when people think ofyou as an artist, what will give
them that feeling of wholeness,right, like damn like this guy
knows exactly who he is and hejust rocked my world, and when I

(01:02:40):
talked to Alan Harris, that'show I feel he rocked my world.
It was wonderful.

Larry Samuels (01:02:44):
Yeah, and picking up on that, I think a little
bit about the stage presenceaspect, meaning, how do you find
your voice, how do you workyour way into the crowd?
How do you learn to work a room?
And the you you know work yourway into the crowd.
How do you learn to work a room?

um, and you know the story of tipping the, the lead
waiter in a bar or restaurant toget a feel or a vibe.
So smart it was incredible.
How did he refer to it?
The the fragrance of the room.
What did he refer?

Larry Samuels (01:03:07):
it was beautiful, right, exactly right, great,
but but that trade craft and tofigure out how to just how to do
stuff like that.
I mean, this is a veteran whowe just spoke to, who was nice
enough to share some of thetricks of the trade.
So you know what an incredibleopportunity for us, and we hope
that all of you enjoyed theconversation just as much as we

(01:03:28):
did.
Alan, thank you so much forjoining us on no Wrong Choices.
For those of you out there whowant to get to know Alan better
check out his website atalanharriscom, and I encourage
you to listen to two recentalbums Alan Harris Live at Blue
Llama and Kate's Soul Food.
They're really great.
On behalf of Tushar Saxena,larry Shea and me, larry Samuels

(01:03:48):
, thank you again for joiningthis episode of no Wrong Choices
.
If, after listening, you'vethought of someone who could be
a great guest, please let usknow by sending us a note via
the contact page of our websiteat norongchoicescom.
While there, please be sure tocheck out our blog and explore
other great episodes whilesigning up to become a member of

(01:04:08):
our community.
You can also follow us onLinkedIn, facebook, instagram,
youtube Threads and X.
Tiktok is up and content hasbegun rolling out.
We'll be back with new episodesin early February, leading in
with a group of highlyaccomplished women, a CEO, super
doctor and Broadway productionstage manager for some very

(01:04:29):
popular shows.
In advance of that, alwaysremember there are no wrong
choices on the road to success,only opportunities, because we
learn from every experience.

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