Behind Broadway: Rachel Bauder’s Journey Backstage

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Larry Samuels (00:02):
What goes on behind the curtains of a
Broadway play and how do you getback there?
We'll explore the answers tothose questions, and beyond,
during this episode of no WrongChoices.
Thank you so much for joiningus.
I'm Larry Samuels, soon to bejoined by my collaborators
Tushar Saxena and Larry Shea.
We do have one quick ask beforewe start the show today, and

(00:23):
that is if you enjoy what we'redoing, please like and follow no
Wrong Choices on your favoritepodcast platform.
Now let's get started.
This episode features theBroadway production stage
manager, Rachel Bauder.
Rachel's known for her work onproductions such as Enemy of the
People, the currently runningRomeo and Juliet and Beetlejuice

(00:43):
.
Larry Shea as our residentactor and theater aficionado.
Please set this one up for us.

Larry Shea (00:50):
Yeah, you know, I think this is one of those
mysterious professions where youthe first thing you have to
wonder is how do I get my footin the door?
You know, how am I going to getinto this business?
You know it's so limited and itjust seems like there's so few
jobs available of this caliber.
So how did she do that?
You know it's so limited and itjust seems like there's so few
jobs available of this caliber,so how did she do that?
You know, I think that's thebiggest thing.
And then on the back end of that, once you get that job, that

(01:13):
show is going to end.
What are you going to do foryour next job and your next job,
Because those shows are ending.
So it's fascinating that, likethis is a profession where just
because you get one job doesn'tmean your career is set.
You got to keep that level atsuch a high platitude that
everyone wants to work with you.
You develop the reputation.

(01:34):
I'm fascinated to get into thatwhole thing.
How do you get the job and howdo you get another one?

Tushar Saxena (01:39):
I want to know how it is you take such a
chaotic scene, like being partof a broadway theater production
, or a movie production for thatmatter, and how, how it is you
take such a chaotic scene likebeing part of a broadway theater
production, or a movieproduction for that matter, and
how is it that you become theperson who has to make the
trains run on time so to speakright, you got to make sure
everyone hits their spot.
You've got to make sure thelights work.
You really are like.
You really are the conductor ofan orchestra outside.

(02:01):
You probably have the secondmost important job outside of
the actual director themselves.
So it's so interesting to hear,hear about a job like this and
to have the ability to speak tosomeone, like speak to someone
like this.
Now I'll be fully honest, full,full disclosure.
I actually was not part of thisdiscussion, but I I as a
producer myself for so manyother things I can relate, so

(02:22):
I'm really interested in hearingthis.

And for me, I'm really curious how somebody
winds up in this field.
Are you starting as an actor?
Is this what the dream was fromthe beginning?
I'm very curious to find outhow somebody winds up in this
place.
So, with no further ado, hereis Rachel Baughter.
Rachel, thank you so much forjoining us.
Thank you so much for having me.
What we like to do off the verytop is to ask our guest, in

(02:49):
this case you, to tell us whatyou do for a living.
We can all think about.
You know what a stage manageris, but nobody knows the answer
to that question better than you.
So please set the stage for us.
No pun intended.
What is a production stagemanager?

Rachel Bauder (03:05):
Let me start by saying I've been doing this for
almost 20 years and I feel likemy mother still doesn't know
what I do.
This is not an easy thing todefine, but the way that I try
to explain it is a productionstage manager is kind of like an
air traffic controller for anindividual production.
So any production that you see,whether it's on Broadway, off

(03:26):
Broadway, regionally has aproduction stage manager at the
helm of a team of stage managers, and the production stage
manager is the person whooversees everything All of the
departments who work backstage,all of the things that happen
front of house, everything thathappens in the cast.
They're the ones responsiblefor keeping the curtain up
anytime there is a scheduledperformance.

(03:47):
It's a very administrative job,but there's also a creative
component to it, so it's sort oflike a big manager.
That's the only way I can thinkto describe it.

Larry Shea (03:56):
Sounds so easy.
Oh, that's a breeze.
So yeah, I get the fun part.
I get to kind of take you backand ask you was this the dream?
And essentially, was there atheater moment from your
childhood that essentially ledyou down this career path?

seriously in this position, but I started out as
an actor.
I wanted to be an actor.
When I was a kid, my parentswere always very great at taking
me and my sister to see shows.
Whenever touring productionswould come through our
neighborhood, we always hadseason tickets to see all the

(04:35):
shows, and there was somethingabout live theater that was just
fascinating to me.
The weird thing is it didn'tfit with who I am as a human.
I am a deep introvert.
I was very shy as a kid, and sothat notion of being like front
and center just made no sense.
But because that's what I saw,that's what I wanted to do,

(04:55):
that's what I loved.
I loved theater and the onlything you really see is what's
on stage.
You don't realize what'shappening backstage.
So I kind of went down thatpath of I'm going to be an actor
.
So I acted in middle school, Iacted in high school, I went to
college to be an actor, I movedto New York to be an actor and
then, shortly after I got to NewYork, I realized this is not at

(05:18):
all for me.
And then in New York is where Irealized there's 100 different
avenues that all contribute to alive theater production, and I
found one that I liked better.
That just fits who I was as aperson.

When you were in school.
I'm curious.
I mean I don't want to skipover the acting stuff, I
definitely want to get to thestage manager part, but as an
actor, you know what were someof the projects that you were
working on and how did you goabout learning that craft before
you transitioned.

That's a good question.
I mean, high school is one ofthose things where I had like a
pretty kooky drama teacher whowould pick very strange shows
that no one had heard of beforeto do for our main stage
productions.
So I can't even tell you whatthey're called, I don't remember
what the characters were, but Iwould often play the lead in
these shows and there wassomething about it that spoke to

(06:10):
me, that sort of learning howto build a character and create
a backstory and build a worldand bring people and an audience
in that really captivated me,captivated me.
And this kooky woman for what?
For what it was worth wasincredible and she was so
inspiring.
But there was always littleopportunities outside of being

(06:31):
on stage that I also found thatin high school.
I was in all the shows, butthere would also be small
opportunities where I could helporganize another show from
backstage.
And then the same thinghappened in college.
It was a very well-roundedprogram I was in.
I guess like the mostrecognizable thing I did in
college is I played Rosencrantzin Hamlet.

(06:51):
I also played Harper in Angelsin America, but there was also a
small student run black boxtheater on my campus where a
friend would be like hey, I'mgoing to try to direct this
random show.
Do you want to hang my lights?
Do you want to design mycostumes?
Do you want to be my stagemanager?
And we would all sort of get totry our hand at these different

(07:13):
things.
So I had all theseopportunities to see the other
things that went on behind thescenes, and that was always much
more interesting to me thanbeing on stage.

Larry Shea (07:22):
That's so funny.
I was also a failed actor.
I don't know what I would callmyself.
But yeah, it's not for thefaint of heart, not also a
failed actor.
Separate the two.

Rachel's very successful in her own right.

Absolutely.
She made a choice, but not asan actor.

Larry Shea (07:38):
I mean it beats you up.
You know the audition process Ifound very grueling.
It's the audition process Ifound very grueling.
Self-esteem takes quite a bitof hits.
It's really a we call it abusiness of failure.
Essentially, you get that onejob but you're auditioning for
90 others.
Oh yeah, do you remember a showor something that you saw when

(08:01):
you were a kid or when you wereyounger that you're like I want
to be up on stage doing exactlywhat they're doing?
Do you remember animpressionable show like that or
anything?

No, I wish I had a better answer for that
question, but I never had thataha moment of.
This is my passion, this is myheart.
But I feel like every time Isaw a live performance of any
sort, my heart soared Like.
I remember seeing Riverdancenot theater at all, but I cried
because it was just such anincredible live experience.
And I remember seeing, likegoing to the circus and like,

(08:36):
coming home afterwards andwanting to like pretend like I
was one of the women on stagewho was doing the acrobats and
riding the elephants, like therewas something about that live
element that, across the board,every show spoke to me in kind
of the same, the same way.

Larry Shea (08:50):
Yeah.
So so talk about the acting alittle bit.
Then you, you, you said youpursued it in college.
Even so, you're in the leadswhen you're younger and then you
want to pursue this and youfeel that you can.
Before you have that Eurekamoment of you know what?
I think I need to do somethingelse, because it doesn't fit who
I am.
Where did you go to school?
How did you pursue that?

Sure, I went to James Madison University in
Virginia and I had to auditionto get into this program, which
is weird because it was a verybroad sort of liberal arts
program and it was verywell-rounded.
There weren't concentrationsnecessarily, there was no
program if you wanted to be atechnical, anything in theater,

(09:30):
it was just sort of you dotheater, and so we all just sort
of did everything.
There was a bunch of like kookyprofessors at my college who
were all just sort of passionateabout theater, but also older.
Many of them retired after Igraduated and so their
perception of theater and whatit takes to make it in the
business and what avenues areavailable to you was very

(09:53):
limited.
I remember them explaining yeah, I remember them explaining
like when you move to New York,this is how you get jobs.
And so I moved to New York andwas like wait, this is not at
all working Because perceptionis from you know what worked 40
years ago.
But because of that I sort ofwas forced to find different
ways in in New York into thebusiness, and then it discovered

(10:16):
so many other opportunitiesthat way.

Describe that experience.
You come to New York You're nowin the big city, so to speak,
with a big dream of breakingthrough.
How do you get started?
I mean, are you showing up atauditions randomly?
How are you discovering thosethings?
What is that process?

I honestly don't know if I ever figured that out.
I moved to New York and I hadfriends who were already here,
who had graduated ahead of me,and we all were just sort of
looking online for opportunitiesand you'd look in weird places
like Craigslist and because wedidn't know what we were doing,
and we would go to auditions forthings, and I got cast in a

(10:55):
couple of things.
They were just like reallysmall things, but you very
quickly realize that you need topay rent and you very quickly
realize you have to feedyourself and like auditions
don't equal food.
And that was sort of when we allgot creative and all of us sort
of got what they call survivaljobs and thankfully mine was

(11:15):
still within the industry andthat's kind of how I found my,
my backdoor and I don't want tojump ahead too much, but do you
find that, because youunderstand the plight of an
actor, that you can relatebetter when you're doing your
job now?
A thousand percent.
A thousand percent that is onething that I'm really grateful
for is that I do feel like,having had that experience, I

(11:36):
can understand it more from theoutside, that I can look at an
actor's experience and know whatthey're going through and
really respect that process in away that I think if you've
never experienced that yourself,you wouldn't understand.
So a thousand percent, yeah.

Larry Shea (11:51):
Yeah, that's such a good point.
I studied music and I wanted tobe a sound recording engineer
and the first two years you haveto play it's performance based
right.
They don't let you touch theknobs and the faders or anything
because they want you tounderstand the plight of the
musician.
So I would think that would bevery valuable in your work that
you did that.
You understood what the actorsare going through.

Yeah, and my college experience was similar
because we had that opportunityto experience.
We got to design costumes, wegot to hang lights, we got to
direct, we got to do all sortsof other components that go into
theater that you wouldn'tnecessarily know, cause, again,
as a kid you only know what yousee, and I saw what happens on
stage.
You don't realize how much goesin behind the scenes, but I got

(12:33):
to experience all of it, and ona small scale, small
non-professional scale, butstill it sort of gives you so
much more insight than you wouldhave if you had just had picked
one path and stayed on it muchmore insight than you would have
if you had just had picked onepath and stayed on it.

Larry Shea (12:46):
That's great.
I'm just curious.
You didn't take this particularpath.
But do you know, are thereschools right now where you
could study stage management andthings of that nature?

Oh yeah, yeah, my partner actually went to school
for stage management and he isalso a Broadway stage manager,
so that's another thing.
I don't like to tell peoplethat I was an actor and I also
don't like to tell people that Ididn't go to school for it,
because it feels like how couldyou possibly know what you're
doing?
Like how, how did I, how did Iget here without?

Larry Shea (13:14):
any of that.
Don't let any of them listen tothis podcast.

I know seriously, I will tell no one.
Everybody mute between minutes13 and Exactly mute between
minutes 13 and uh.

No, there are opportunities to um to pursue a
degree in stage management.
You can do um undergrad andgraduate school for stage
management Um.
I taught a class in in umundergrad stage management
recently.
I've uh been a guest speaker atgraduate stage management
classes Like they.
There's there's so manyopportunities to be fully
educated in that line of work.
I just don't have that on myresume.

So talk about that path.
You mentioned earlier that youwere taking second jobs to keep
eating while you were acting andthat you found sort of a
backdoor way in.
What was that?

I was an intern in the Roundabout Theater
Company's ticketing departmentand the Roundabout Theater
Company is ticketing departmentand the Roundabout Theater
Company is an incrediblenonprofit producing powerhouse.
They've been around for so long.
They own several theaters onBroadway and off Broadway.
Their seasons are incredibleand I was like a tiny peon in
their ticketing office.
I would file papers all day,Like it was very much like an

(14:24):
internship, but this is and Iwill always credit this
particular human with giving memy my start on Broadway.
There was a day where myself andanother woman who worked in the
office her name was Lindsay wewere sent over to an offsite
office to stuff envelopes for abig donor event that was
happening for Roundabout offsiteoffice to stuff envelopes for a

(14:46):
big donor event that washappening for Roundabout.
We were there for hours juststuffing envelopes, just me and
Lindsay and I knew I had heardthat Lindsay had worked on
Broadway with a stage managementteam and I was kind of like,
hey, what's, what was that like?
And we chatted about it.
I said, hey, how do you, how doyou do that?
How did you get in there?
And she told me her path.
She said everyone's path isdifferent.

(15:09):
I learned so much that day and Iwas like you know what that
feels like me, that feels likesomething that I could excel in.
And then, after that day ofstuffing envelopes, I didn't
think much of it.
And then down the road Lindsaywas given an opportunity to be a
production assistant on aBroadway show which is sort of
at the bottom rung of the stagemanagement ladder, kind of like
a stage management intern, andshe didn't want to take it and

(15:29):
so she put my name in the ringfor that opportunity.
I met the production stagemanager on that show for an
interview and he hired me andthat was my first Broadway show
and I've done 12 Broadway showssince.

Larry Shea (15:43):
Wow, what are the critical qualities needed to do
this job?
I mean, it sounds likeorganizationally, you need to be
way ahead of the game.
You tell me what were thestrengths.
What did you see in the jobthat you're like?
That's me.

Mostly before I understood the job, it was
mostly the organization.
I am very type A, I love whenthings are orderly and and I I'm
excellent at keeping track ofdetails.
And um, uh, that is definitelywho I am and who I've always
been.
As a kid, like trying to playwith my younger sister, I was
always the one who was like nowwe're going to do this and then
we have to do this, Like I was.

I would organize our play.

That is who I am, um.
But then, now that I've donethe job, there's also so much
more to it.
There's how would I even sayit's about dealing with people.
For sure, because, being in aposition of authority, in a
management position, I answer to100 people every day, in all
different departments, at alldifferent levels of the process.

(16:42):
They come to me at alldifferent levels of emotion and
it's up to me to be able to meetall these people where they are
, with the same goal of we haveto put on a show tonight.
So for me, it's a lot aboutcommunication.
It's a lot about patience andgrace and understanding.
Empathy is something that Ireally prioritize as a

(17:03):
production stage manager.
I've worked with others who donot, and I don't feel like that
is the way in in a job like this.
But it's a lot about the people.
It's keeping people happy andmeeting them where they are.

It's really interesting.
As we were preparing for theinterview, larry and I were sort
of game planning beforehand howwe were going to approach this,
and one of the questions thatwe both landed on was you know
the interpersonal dynamics itfeels like in the role that
you're in, like what is thedynamic between you and the
director?
What is the dynamic between youand the actor, who needs your

(17:36):
direction and needs your visionin order to be successful?

I would say the most important part of any
dynamic across the board istrust, and it's one of the
hardest things, because everytime you start a show, you start
from scratch.
It's a brand new company ofpeople, it's a brand new text,
it's a brand new idea,everything is brand new, and so
you have to very swiftly earnpeople's trust across the board.

(18:03):
So, with actors, it's mostlyabout making sure that they know
that I'm on their side, thatI'm on their team, that I will
advocate for them no matter what, that I will support them no
matter what they're goingthrough, all with an eye on
making sure that they can dotheir best work every time
they're up on stage.
With a director, it's somethingsimilar.
It's really hard to work with adirector for the first time

(18:25):
because that relationship is sointimate.
You spend so much time with adirector trying to understand
their vision and then help themarticulate it and build it and
organize things around thatcreative idea so that you can
move things in the rightdirection.
And if it's a new relationship,it's hard to be like don't

(18:47):
worry, I got this.
Like, just trust me, If you letme schedule it like this, we'll
get it all done.
It's definitely easier whenyou've worked with people
multiple times, because there'sa vocabulary there, there's a
trust, but it's always it'salways about trust.

So I want to dig a little bit deeper on that
thought there.
So the director has a visionfor what they want to bring to
life and their interpretationeffectively of the original work
in some cases, or the new work,whatever it may be.
They have the vision for howthey're going to bring this to
life and, as the productionstage manager, your job is to

(19:22):
sort of understand that visionand to translate it to reality.
Is that the right way to put it?

For the most part .
Yes, I don't want to say that aproduction stage manager is a
miracle worker by any means, butit's sort of like I'm the
person that translates thecreative idea into logistically
how to make it happen.
So if a director says I wantthis person to instantly change
a costume in a poof of smoke andthen be able to leap on top of

(19:54):
this set piece all to eightcounts of music, then it's up to
me to communicate to thecostume designer, the set
designer, the music director andfigure out how are we going to
accomplish this idea in a safe,logistical way that we can
recreate eight times a week thatthe actor feels good about.
That we know, you know, likeit's it's.

(20:14):
I feel like I'm more of atranslator than anything.

Larry Shea (20:17):
And this is, of course, a business where there's
no big personalities and egos.
Oh no, I'm sure it all goessmoothly all the time?
How do you deal with bigpersonalities and egos?

Empathy.
It's always empathy and it'salways trying to just sort of
see people for the humans thatthey are and understanding that
ego comes from a place and weall have it.
I have an ego.
I can deeply relate to someonewho's feeling threatened in an
ego kind of a way.
I can deeply relate to someonewho's feeling insecure or

(20:51):
doubting you can meet demands.
That also sort of builds thattrust and makes it so that the
big personality feels lessoverwhelming.

So, going back to your journey, you get your
first job.
You're moving forward.
How did you build this skillset?
Talk to us about some of thoseearly jobs.
You can sort of, I guess, maybelump them together if you want
to.
But how did you build yourskill set?
Talk to us about some of thoseearly jobs.

You can sort of, I guess, maybe lump them
together if you want to, but howdid you build your skill set?
I feel like Doing is the bestway to learn in this particular
line of work, because every dayis different as a stage manager
and every show that you work onis different and I don't want to
disparage anyone who goes toschool for this, because I wish

(21:49):
that I had.
I feel like I would haveprobably had more of an arsenal
of information at hand if I hadgone to school for it, had more
of an arsenal of information athand if I had gone to school for
it.
But I feel like each show thatI do, even now, I learn
something new every time, and itis always sort of sparking kind
of a new, creative way ofapproaching problems.
But it's also creating thisRolodex of information of being

(22:13):
able to see a problem before itbecomes a problem, because I
remember, like oh, that showthat I did five years ago where
they told me that this wasn'tgoing to be an issue, and then
it was an issue.
It's probably going to be anissue on this show too, so maybe
I'll try to get ahead of it asopposed to waiting until it
blows up.
But when you start out in thisline of work.
There's a ladder that you haveto climb, so the production

(22:34):
stage manager is at the top ofthe team of stage managers, then
there's a stage manager, anassistant stage manager, a
production assistant.
There's sort of a hierarchy,and when you start at the bottom
of the ladder as a productionassistant, you don't have much
responsibility, but you stillget to be in the room and so as
a PA that we call them PAs youget to watch, and I feel like

(22:58):
when I was a PA, I was a sponge.
I was soaking everything infrom every moment I was eager to
.
I've always been very ambitiousand competitive, so I was
always sort of eager to be thebest PA in the room and like the
one who's got the mostinformation and the one that you
could trust the most.
But those opportunities, astedious as they were, you don't
make any money, you don't haveany responsibility.
You learn so much because youget to watch, and I feel like I

(23:21):
built my skillset from a handfulof mentors that I really
respect and appreciate, but alsofrom people that I didn't
necessarily jive with on aprofessional level, that I only
worked with once, as opposed tomultiple times, because our
styles weren't quite the same,because you can learn from that
too.
You can learn.
You know what.
I wouldn't have handled thatsituation like that and file

(23:43):
that away into the Rolodex oflike, okay, if I was ever faced
with that, I would do somethingtotally different.
So all of those experiences, Isort of feel like it just builds
this arsenal of informationabout how I would want to handle
something.

Larry Shea (23:59):
Talk about how you would ramp up a show, let's say,
from like I don't even knowtable read to rehearsals, to
technical rehearsals, to openingnight.
I mean, is it just an anxietyladder that you're kind of
ramping up as you go, because Ican imagine opening night is
like amazing, right, buteverybody's nervous, everyone
wants it to go perfectly.

(24:19):
But talk about ramping it upfrom stage one to we are doing a
show tonight, people.

Sure, sure.
I think the thing that peopledon't realize is, before a first
rehearsal, there's already beenmonths and months, and months,
sometimes years of work that gointo putting a show together,
especially a new work.
Sometimes pieces have been indevelopment for years before

(24:46):
they actually see a stage, andso I feel like, at least from my
perspective, there's so muchthat happens behind the scenes
before anyone really starts oncontract.
There's a lot of organizing,there's a lot of meetings,
there's a lot of designconversations, there's sort of
the fleshing out of ideas,there's assembling the team of.
You know, I really think thatthe set needs to be something

(25:07):
like this who would be the mostappropriate designer who could
help us realize this vision?
It's building the team, it'sarticulating the ideas and then
it's also about staffing, likefinding the right cast and the
auditions.
Once you get to the firstrehearsal.
It's a similar process where itstarts, like you just said, at
the table where you have thetext.

(25:27):
Everyone sits down together andreads the text.
If it's new, there'sopportunity to rewrite.
If it's Shakespeare, there'snot necessarily much rewriting
to be done, but there's still somuch to dig into with each
character and what is theapproach of this particular
production and why are we hereand why are we doing this.
And then we get on our feet andthen it's sort of trying to put

(25:50):
it in our bodies and find a wayto have these complete
strangers interact with eachother like they're lovers or
family, and building thebackstory and finding the
movement that also makes sense.
Then sometimes, if it's amusical, you layer in the music,
you layer in the choreography,you add all these layers in bit
by bit until you get tosomething that feels like a
fully realized production withina rehearsal room.

(26:13):
Then you have to pick it up andmove it to a theater and then
it's more layers, then it's youadd costumes and you add
microphones and you add lightsand sound, and I think the whole
process is just sort of aboutadding different layers until
you get to that fully realized,completed product.
And it's very stressful.
So again, totally easy.

(26:34):
It's so easy, piece of cake.

Larry Shea (26:34):
It's very stressful.
So, again, totally easy.
Oh yeah, it's so easy.
Piece of cake.
That is great, though I lovethat you just walked us through
that.
So, getting back to yourjourney a little bit, though, so
you're soaking it up like asponge.
You have mentors that you'relooking to to kind of lead you
down the path and show you therope, so to speak.
How do you handle the next show?

(26:56):
Like not knowing when thisproduction ends, like I got to
find another job, and how didyou go from that first job,
where you all of a sudden havesome responsibility, to the next
and the next?
Do you remember that transitionand how it happened?

Oh, I remember it because it's the most stressful
thing ever, I'm sure it stillhappens.
Like I still think anytime I geta Broadway show that this is
probably my last one, that noone's ever going to hire me
again, like there's a there's ahumility that being a freelance
worker sort of instills in you.
That's hard to hard to shed.

(27:32):
And so I always remember thatfeeling of like I had I got my
first Broadway show and then Iwas like, oh no, how do I get
another one?
Like I can't keep calling myfriend Lindsay and being like,
do you have any other jobs youwant to turn down?
Um, and so for me it was just alot of um asking questions.
And if you ask the rightquestion enough times to the

(27:55):
right person, they'll they'resomeone will help you.
And I remember after my firstshow I was or, as I was still in
it, I was asking questions likewell, I don't, I don't quite
know what to do next.
Like I don't know how to findmy next opportunity.
And the production stagemanager I was working with at
the time made me feel prettyconfident that the next time he

(28:17):
got a show he would ask me to dothe next one with him.
But you never know when that is.
But I asked enough people thatthe head carpenter at that
theater said hey, when this showloads out, do you want to come
be on my carpentry crew and youcan make some local one money
and help us get the set out ofthe theater and I was like, yes,
I do.
It's sort of about asking a lotof questions and then saying yes

(28:40):
to as much as possible, buteven now, you barely get a show
to opening and it's already like, okay, what am I going to do
three months from now?
I got to start sending emailsto this person.
I got to go have coffee withthis person.
I got to see if this is stillan opportunity.
What is this person doing next?
It's always sort of like thegame of.
It is really stressful becauseyou have to keep playing.

(29:00):
You can't stop playing.

Larry Shea (29:02):
Yeah, I love that you said that too, that there's
people that you're working withand they're thinking the same
thing and some of them have ashow lined up and some don't.
I used to hear that from myactor friends quite a bit, that
you know the people who wereworking, the movie crew or
whatever, they would all kind ofgo as a group right and kind of
go to that next thing orwhatever it was.

(29:22):
I mean, at this point, you, you, you have so many credits, so
many amazing credits to yourname.
I'm just wondering, you knowI'm sure people are coming to
you and saying we begging you tobe, you know, do their
production, Do you have an agent?
Does anybody in this field havean agent to get them work, or
is it always just trying tolatch on to that next great
production?

For stage managers.
We're on our own.
There is no one helping us,there's no agent, there's no
manager, it's just sort of youyourself and you and that's it.
So it's hard, it's hard.

Has there ever been a moment where the phone
started to ring instead of youcalling out Like?
Have you reached a point whereyou're established enough that
the phone rings?

Yes, I, my, my, my humble self was having a
really hard time admitting that,because it just doesn't quite
feel real that I've I've gottento that point in my career.
But yes, I just opened theprevious show that I did, an
Enemy of the People, and thedirector of that show, not like

(30:24):
a week later, said, hey, thenext show I'm doing is Romeo and
Juliet.
Do you want to do that one too?
And I have had interviews forother shows and other management
companies asking about myavailability.
So I'm getting there.
I don't want to get cocky ortoo confident, because at any
moment it could change, but Ifeel like I'm just now getting
to that point in my career.

Larry Shea (30:45):
Talk a little bit about the schedule, because you
know we're talking about.
You know, working for threemonths on a show and then going
to the next one.
I assume when you're working ona show it's seven days a week
crazy hours and then you havethis gap, right Maybe between
shows, where you're just likewhat's next?
What am I going to do?

(31:06):
So it feels to me like it's 100miles an hour and then it's two
miles an hour.
Right, that is very accurate.

That kind of a world, yeah, it's very accurate,
I will say, because we are anindustry that is powered by
unions.
We don't ever work seven days aweek, but we do work six days a
week.
So it is I don't know if that'smuch better, but it is that
it's sort of full throttle toget you to opening night and

(31:37):
then, even after opening, whenyou think things will calm down,
there's still another layer ofwork that needs to be done to
maintain the show, and it's likethat up until you close a show.
I've been fortunate that theshows that I've done recently
have had not unlimited runs butruns that I trust are not going
to get cut short.
There are some shows that openon Broadway that close a week or

(31:59):
two later because they don'thave enough ticket sales.
The advance is not good enoughand it's heartbreaking to think
about all the work that goesinto those shows and then it's
just pulled away out from underyou.
There's no way to prepare forthat.
So I've been really fortunatelately that my jobs have kind of
lasted long enough that I'vebeen able to line up my next one
, and sometimes there is overlap.

(32:21):
I feel sort of like January isoften a time when new shows
start, or August, so you canstart a show in January and
maybe take it through the springand then have a month off over
the summer.
But also from my perspective,in my line of work there's not a
lot of time off becauserehearsal might start in August
but my job might start in Junebecause there's so much work
that needs to go into gettingeverything ready for that August

(32:43):
start.
So January and August are kindof when things tend to start for
new productions.

As you look at I mean, I'm floored by everything
I'm hearing and I can't imaginethe intensity, the pressure, the
excitement, the thrill, allthat stuff as you look back at
your journey.
I'm curious about moments thatstand out, you know, as you deal
with chaos and pressure andintensity.
Has there ever been a moment ina play where everything, all of

(33:13):
a sudden, while you were alive,went completely wrong and you
needed to somehow scramble tofigure it out and get through it
?
Never.

tuesday can you?

think of like a, a standout moment that, like you
, saved the day you had to getthrough it um, I mean, all the
time like that it happenshappens all the time.

That's kind of one of the most exciting parts
of of doing theater is that theodds are, because you have to do
the same show so many times,something's going to go wrong,
and the bigger the show the oddsare, the more chances that
there are going to be somethingthat goes wrong.
So working on Beetlejuice onBroadway was probably the show

(33:58):
that we had the most things gowrong with, because it's the
biggest show I've ever done interms of scope.
Just the technical elements ofthat show were massive and it
just meant that if there's ahundred different pieces of
automation versus the show I'mdoing right now, there's only
three.
You know, like the hundredpieces like there there's

(34:19):
probably going to be somethingthat fails.
Exactly so.
You get very good attroubleshooting and you can
either troubleshoot your way toa solution without the audience
knowing, or, if the problem isso severe, you have to stop the
show.
Then it's about stopping afreight train when it is full

(34:41):
speed ahead, fixing a problemand then finding a way to
getting it back up and running.
The good news is audiences tendto love that.
They tend to love when a showstops because they really feel
like they're seeing somethingspecial.
When a show stops because theyreally feel like they're seeing
something special, I did a showon Broadway with Tony Danza a
while back, and anytime we wouldhave to stop the show for a

(35:01):
technical reason, tony wouldcome out on stage and chat with
the audience, and people lovedit.

So that's great.

Like if we needed 15 minutes to solve a problem,
tony would be like I got it andhe would go entertain people.
So, thankfully, audiences areusually pretty amenable to
things like that, but behind thescenes it's like it's chaos,
trying to organize everybody'spanic and say here's how we're
going to fix it.
We need to do this.
You're going here, you say this, then we do this and then we're

(35:29):
fine.

Larry Shea (35:30):
Since we're on this subject, how do you handle
safety, because I've heard amillion stories about things
happening on stage.
Obviously there's some verydangerous circumstances, whether
it be lights coming down andstaging and things of that
nature, but also there's beenreal swords put in place of fake

(35:50):
swords and things of thatnature and people really could
get hurt.
So have you had any experienceslike that?
How do you safeguard againstthings like that and how do you
handle it?
I assume you're in charge ofall of that.

There are.
There are multiple departmentsthat are, uh, that have their
eye on safety.
I would say Um, but that's, forme personally, always one of my
biggest concerns is making surethat things are safe, and my
brain maybe also as a mother isalways sort of working in that
way of like trying to see theproblem before it becomes a
problem and getting ahead of it.
And so, from the beginning of aprocess, I try to like my brain

(36:25):
is just wired that way to sortof see a thing and be like how
are we going to keep that personsafe?
For example, we're doing theshow that I'm doing right now
involves actors running aroundin the grid, which is sort of
like the catwalk system thatexists over the stage, and

(36:53):
before we even started rehearsal, we were in epic conversations
about how to make the grid safe,how to make sure we can strap
people into harnesses if they'reworried about falling.
What kind of extra safeguardscan we put in place to make sure
that when people are up there,if they slip or trip or anything
like that, no one is going tobe falling from the grid?
Um, and, like I said, there'smultiple departments who have
their eye on that.
So there's always sort of um,plenty of people who are making
sure that that's the case.
I also always say, whenever weget to the theater for the first

(37:15):
time to the cast my firstpriority is always safety,
always, always, always.
And if anyone feels unsafe,ever in any way, for any reason,
stop and we will fix it.
If you need a flashlight, ifyou need more glow tape over
here, if this costume piece ismaking it so that you can't walk
, if you can't see where you'regoing, on that, like, whatever
those things are, I always makesure that myself and my team are

(37:39):
all over that and that weprioritize it from the beginning
, because it's a dangerousindustry that we work in and
people's bodies are all thatthey have, and so I just want to
protect the bodies as much as Ican.

Larry Shea (37:50):
I'm so glad you said that.
How is it something in thetheater where you can just see
in the dark automatically, likebecause I'm always like at a
performance and the lights goout and like things are
happening up on stage.
I'm like, how does anybody see,or do you just know every
square inch of that stage andbackstage?
And how does everybody see whenyou're making set?

changes.
There's little tricks, um.
One of the things that we use alot of is called glow tape,
which is just like a like.
It looks like a regular pieceof yellow tape, but if you
charge it with a light of anysort and then you turn the
lights out, it glows.
So it's sort of like a glow inthe dark tape, and my team and I
always make sure that before welet the cast get anywhere on

(38:33):
stage, we walk the stageourselves and we put glow tape
along the edge to make sure thatno one falls off.
We look at the steps and makesure we don't need to add
anything there so that you cansee backstage.
Like the stage that I'm workingon right now, backstage is
covered with neon gaff tape sothat you can see this is a hard
edge.
This is a step Don't run intothis because it's dark backstage

(38:55):
too.
So it's sort of like a stepthat happens before everybody
gets there.
Also, for me as the productionstage manager because I end up
calling all of the cues duringthe shows I usually have an
infrared camera that is on thestage so that when everything
blacks out and the audiencecan't see anything, I still can.
So I can see what the actorsare doing, I can see where

(39:18):
they're going, I can make sureeveryone is safe, and if someone
isn't safe, I'm the only onewho has eyes on it and then can
alert my team.
Something has happened.
Check in with this person, dowe need to address something?
So it's sort of like I haveeyes in the dark, which is
really cool.

Larry Shea (39:32):
Very cool yeah, which is really cool, very cool.
Yeah, tips and tricks rightthere.

As we're having this conversation, I'm looking
behind you and it feels like avery organized house that I'm
looking at.
I imagine this carries over toeverything you do.

For the most part .
Yes, I do have aneight-year-old so we do live in
like a bit of a level ofconstant chaos.
But she also prioritizesorganization.
She like everything, sort ofhas a place.
Her books are all colorcoordinated, so like she values
my organization, I would say aswell.

Larry Shea (40:04):
Do you feel like this is a career journey?
So do you feel like you'vereached the dream?
At this point I mean, I'm justhearing you speak and the joy
you know that comes from youtalking about your job Do you
feel that this is the pinnacleand that it doesn't get any
better than this?

I mean, Broadway is always the dream right, Like
there's nothing better thanBroadway.
There's nowhere else to go fromhere.
This is sort of like this, is it?
And I always remind myself,whenever the job feels really
hard, that there's only 41Broadway theaters in New York
and there's no Broadway outsideof New York, and so there's only
41 people at any given momentin the whole world who get to do

(40:43):
what I do.
And it's like a really special,cool thing and I remember being
a production assistant, beingat the bottom of that career
ladder and looking up and justthinking like I want to do that
and I know that I can, I'd be sogood, thinking like I want to
do that and I know that I can,I'd be so good at it, I want to
do it.
And then realizing that like,oh, I did it, I actually did it.
It's, it's something that I'mreally proud of and I don't I

(41:04):
don't often let myself say thatout loud, but like I worked
really hard to get here and I'mI'm really proud to be here and
I I want to.
I want to stay at this level.
I love it.

What are some of your favorite moments from along
the way, whether it be aperformance, whether it be a
production that you put together.
What are some of those standoutthings?

Oh, that's a really good question.
I feel like some of my fondestand proudest moments are from
Beetlejuice, just because it wassuch a big show, but it was
also one of the only shows thatI was a part of from the
beginning.
I worked on that show for aboutsix years, from start to finish
, and when I say start, I mean Idid readings of it, which means

(41:47):
it's when everybody getstogether in a room and reads
through the script and talksabout it and makes changes.
You might have a presentationat the end for designers or for
investors, but the readings aresort of where the development
happens.
I did several readings.
We took the show out of town toDC where we put it up for the
first time with all of thetechnical elements.

(42:08):
We brought it to Broadway anddid the same thing.
We got shut down because of thepandemic.
Then we got to bring it back toa different theater after the
pandemic.
It's been one of the mostincredible journeys to be with
the show from the beginning andsee how much it evolved over the
course of all these differentiterations and knowing that I
had a part in all of them.

Larry Shea (42:28):
Do you have like a dream show that you want to work
on, something that like is that, oh, the pinnacle.
Like, oh, that would be amazingif I could work with this
director or with that actor onthat particular show.

That's a good question too.
Honestly, no, I don't, onlybecause I I feel like For me I
don't want to say beggars can'tbe choosers, but I'm always just
sort of happy for anyopportunity to work in theater
and I feel like I try to findthe silver lining in all the

(43:01):
situations.
So any show is a good show forme, for more women.
It's an industry that has beenvery male dominated for a long
time and I would say I think allof the directors I've worked
for so far have been men.
So I would love to work with afemale director, I would love to
work with more female designers, and I can see the industry

(43:25):
kind of moving in that direction.
So I think that's definitely agoal for me.

I'm curious how has the industry changed in the
time that you've been in it?
At this point you have sometenure.
How have you seen things change?

That is so weird to think about me having tenure
I still sort of feel likesometimes like I'm just starting
out, but no, I guess it's beena while.
I feel like one of the biggestthings that I've seen change is
the results of the pandemic.
Honestly, this industry isbuilt on the mantra the show

(44:01):
must go on, and so when I firststarted in the industry, there
was nothing that could keep anactor off stage, whether they
had no voice or they wereincredibly ill or they were
injured or their mother died oryou know, there was nothing that
would keep an actor fromperforming.
Nobody missed work.
Everybody just did it was.
You just kept the curtain up,no matter what.

(44:23):
And since the pandemic, I feelthere's been a shift, not
universally, but enough of ashift on a small scale, of
people prioritizing mentalhealth and bodies and wellness
and family in a way that Ididn't see when I first started,
and I think that that's a hugeplus.

(44:44):
I think that that's a hugeproblem in the industry that the
schedule is brutal and thethings that we ask actors and
crew people to do.
It's hard.
And I think it's so importantthat now people are sort of
saying you know what?
I'm tired, I need to take a dayfor myself, or my kid has a
baseball game.
I'm going to go to the baseballgame, I'm going to see my kid,

(45:04):
or I don't want to miss thiswedding.
My mother is sick, I am sick,my body is hurt, like all these
things never used to be enoughof an excuse and now it's not
questioned, which I mean I guessit is sometimes, but it feels
like definitely a good shift inthe right direction.

Larry Shea (45:21):
I'm almost afraid to ask this question because I'm
afraid of the answer, but I haveto ask it anyway.
Can you think of a big mistakethat you made, where you're like
oh my God, I can't believe Ididn't think of X, y or Z, I'll
never do that again, somethingthat, because you said it's
unpredictable and it's a verylive and learn kind of a
profession, it just seems sochaotic to me.

(45:43):
There has to be something thatyou're like I can't believe I
didn't think of.

X, I think I mean sure I've made a hundred
mistakes every week.
The mistakes are boundless,because you are sort of always
looking at problems in acreative way and trying to solve
them in a creative way, and youdon't always hit the nail on

(46:08):
the head.
I'm trying to think of aspecific example.

Larry Shea (46:12):
Has anyone ever gotten hurt, like on one of your
shows or anything like that,because that has to be the worst
yeah, I mean definitely that'sthat's.

That is the worst , that's absolutely the worst.
Yeah, um, I feel like some ofthe biggest mistakes I've made
have been, um, how to approachan actor in crisis.
Because actors are, they can bebig personalities and, in the
name of sort of protecting themand supporting them, you want to

(46:41):
give them what they need, butalso some actors are I don't
want to.

Larry Shea (46:47):
You can say it.
You can say it.

Some actors are not to be trusted, right.
Some actors can be vindictive.
Some actors can be vindictive.
Some actors can be manipulative, and if you say just the wrong
thing, it can be used againstyou.
And I feel sort of like I'veI've.
I've misstepped a couple oftimes with actors trying to
solve problems in a way thatfelt productive to me.
That was then used against meor came back to bite me in a

(47:10):
different way.
So I feel like it's been morelike not approaching actor
problems with the right touch, Iguess.

Interesting.

Yeah, it's a good answer.

Well, we've reached the point of our journey
where we like to ask our guestsfor advice.
So you've had a remarkablejourney.
You've achieved some incrediblethings.
You're one of only 41 peoplewho are doing what you do right
now.
So I guess the roadmap togetting exactly where you are

(47:42):
might be somewhat challenging,but if there's somebody out
there listening who wants tofollow your path, wants to be
number 42 or replace the personwho leaves, whatever it may be,
what advice do you have forsomebody who wants to be number
42 or replace the person wholeaves, whatever it may be?
What advice do you have forsomebody who wants to follow in
your footsteps?

Sure, the thing I always try to tell young people
who are trying to do this issay yes.
Say yes to everything, becauseyou don't know what yes might
lead to the next yes.
I've had several jobs that I'vetaken reluctantly because I
didn't really want to do thatproject or I was hoping to make
more money.
Whatever the reason, I've saidyes to things that I haven't

(48:22):
really wanted to do, but thenthat yes turned into an offer
down the road or an opportunitywith somebody else.
So always say yes.
You never know what yes mightlead to something else.
And then I also feel that andthis is impossible for to tell a
young person, but patience whenyou are climbing the ladder

(48:43):
will work wonders that I lookback on my early years in the
business and I learned so much.
I was so impatient, I was soimpatient and I was so
frustrated because I just wantedto be doing more and I felt
like I was capable of more.
But if I could go back and tellmyself something, it would be

(49:04):
just be patient, just watch,just look, absorb, learn, ask
all the questions and just trustthat who you are and what you
do is going to be enough to getyou up to the next rung of the
ladder and hopefully the nextone after that and the next one
after that.

That is absolutely incredible advice.
We've heard people talk aboutyes before on this program, but
we haven't heard that adviceabout be patient and let things
come you to a certain degree.
That is really really smart.
I wish I had adopted that for ameaningful portion of my career
.
I was always what's next?
What's next, let's go, let's go, rather than absorbing

(49:41):
everything that was available tome in the moment.
So I'm certainly guilty of thatmyself.
So that is incredible,incredible advice.
Well, rachel Boter, thank youso much for making the time for
us today.
Good luck with the continuationof Romeo and Juliet for all of
those listening in real time.

(50:01):
That is Rachel's currentproduction.
If you come to it later on, I'msure she'll be on to another
great adventure.
Rachel, thank you so much.

Thank you so much for having me.
This was so nice.

So that was Rachel Botter teaching us once
again that an overarching themeor a great way to live life is
to just say yes.
Larry Shea, what are yourtakeaways from that conversation
?

Larry Shea (50:27):
I love that advice.
First and foremost, we seem tofind that in the entertainment
industry, that's, that's a lotof it right, like no matter what
it is, that's a big theme,that's a big theme right,
because you may be asked to dosomething that you don't want to
do, and rachel said it herself.
Like I took it, I said yes andthen that led to something that
I did want to do, and so younever know when that's going to

(50:48):
be just around the corner ofsaying yes.
So I think that was superimpressive.
I love that she studied acting.
That means that she understandsthe plight of being on stage
and understands what it's liketo give a performance right.
But she also did the lightingand set design and, you know,
costume design in college.

(51:08):
She did it all right.
So she was a jack of all tradesin college and she found a back
door.
You know we talk all the time onthe show about how there isn't
one path right.
There's a lot of differentpaths.
So this was a friend saying hey, why don't you go give this a
shot?
She didn't need the education.
It might have helped, as shesaid, it might have given her
better vocabulary, moreammunition when she actually got

(51:31):
these jobs, but she learnedthem kind of grassroots style
and that's one way to go.
You know, it doesn't have to bethrough education.
So I love that she had adifferent path that she chose
there.
And you know, I know you guysare going to speak to this more,
but the patience with climbingthe ladder, you know?
Yeah, for sure.
See, take it away.
I mean, that was such greatadvice.

Look I got to say is that I swear by that.
They're like look, everyonewants to climb the ladder as
quickly as possible, but that'snot going to be everybody's
journey, right?
I mean, you're going to climbit at your own pace and
sometimes the pace will bedictated to you, but you just
got to keep climbing right,because eventually you will get
to the point you you feelsuccessful.

(52:13):
And that's how it was forrachel as well.
You know, I can absolutelyattest with a lot of her journey
there.
I mean, look for me, uh, therewas a lot of just say yes, like
I mean, look, we, I did a nascarracing show and I knew nothing
about auto racing so they saidhey can you talk about auto
racing yes, of course I can, andand that's how it starts.

(52:57):
So a lot of times, look, you'vegot to do something.

You are uncomfortable with to get
comfortable in the next gig, andthat's a lot of what we want.
To try to relate myself alittle bit, sometimes it's okay
to feel uncomfortable, you know.
Frankly, that makes you abetter be able to, I guess, deal
with a thousand balls in theair at one time, every single
day.
And then, in addition to that,she needs to be able to take a

(53:23):
moment to sit down with somebodyand have a conversation and
help them see their way throughto a role, a part, a vision, and
to work through whateverchallenge that person has on any
particular day, whether it's anactor, whether it's a director.
It just feels like, in a lot ofways, she serves the role of

(53:44):
therapist for a production, inaddition to being the person
who's executing a vision.
And how about?

Larry Shea (53:51):
the fact that she doesn't know where her next job
is coming from.
Right, there's no agents,there's no managers.
She literally just has tofigure out what's next.
And she's at the highestpinnacle of this career and yet
she still has that uneasiness ofI'm freelance, I got to find
where my next paycheck is comingfrom, because these shows are

(54:14):
not forever, they end and thenyou have to find something else.
So just her navigating thatfreelance life that could be a
chore unto itself.
So just a high level of respectfor her actually navigating
this profession in this way it'sshe must be so good at what she
does because she continuouslyworks.
So we know she's brilliant atwhat she does because she
continuously works.

(54:34):
So we know she's brilliant atwhat she does, right.

Absolutely.
And that brings me to thenumber 41.
I think she mentioned thatthere are 41 people who have her
job at this particular point intime.
So clearly she's very good andit's a lot to manage.
I'll end on that.
I did have the chance to seeRomeo and Juliet.
I went with my wife veryrecently and what a production

(54:57):
it really.
You know, I had met her at thatpoint, we had spoken at that
point a little bit and I waseager to see what she does and
how it all comes together and itblew my mind in terms of what
goes into that type of aproduction.
So I was absolutely blown away.
Order from chaos.
It was nuts and it was so muchfun.

(55:19):
It was such a great production.
It gives you a whole differentperspective on it, right?
It does, no doubt.
No doubt.
I mean there were people in therafters, there were people
sitting on doorways, there werepeople running down stairwells.
It was absolute controlledchaos.
And we know that Rachel, he'scontrolling it Was in control of

(55:41):
all of that chaos.
So, rachel, I was very impressed.
So, with that, rachel Botter,thank you so much for joining us
on this episode.
We also thank you for joiningus.
If this episode made you thinkof someone who could be a great
guest, please send us a notethrough the contact page of our
website at norongchoicescom.
While you're there, pleasecheck out our blog for a deeper

(56:05):
look into each of our guests andepisodes.
As mentioned at the start,don't forget to like and follow
us on your favorite podcastplatform and to connect with us
on social media.
You can find us on LinkedIn,instagram, facebook, youtube,
tiktok and X.
Your support helps us to keepbringing these incredible
stories to life.
On behalf of Larry Shea, tusharSaxena and me, larry Samuels,

(56:30):
thank you again for joining us.
We'll be back next week withanother inspiring episode of no
Wrong Choices.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

24/7 News: The Latest

Dateline NBC

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Behind Broadway: Rachel Bauder’s Journey Backstage

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Stuff You Should Know

24/7 News: The Latest

Dateline NBC

All Episodes

Behind Broadway: Rachel Bauder’s Journey Backstage

Stuff You Should Know