Building a Career in Art and Leadership with Vanessa Fusco of Christie’s Auction House

What does it take to rise through the ranks of one of the world’s most prestigious auction houses?

In this episode of No Wrong Choices, we explore the fascinating career journey of Vanessa Fusco, International Director and Head of Impressionist & Modern Art at Christie's. From her early days visiting NYC museums to helping families navigate high-stakes art sales, Vanessa offers a rare behind-the-scenes look at a world filled with masterpieces, intense competition, and big decisions.

Vanessa shares how she transitioned from an aspiring filmmaker to an art historian, why she left a PhD program to rejoin the workforce, and how she found purpose in the intersection of scholarship, commerce, and people. Along the way, she offers hard-earned insights into what it takes to succeed in the art world—from dealing with forgeries to mentoring the next generation of specialists.

Whether you're an art lover, a collector, or just curious about a career that blends cultural impact with global commerce, Vanessa’s story delivers inspiration, authenticity, and plenty of fascinating detail.

Episode Highlights:

• How Vanessa broke into the art world and built a career at Christie's
• Why integrity matters more than any single transaction
• What determines the value of a $100 million painting
• The business—and emotion—behind art sales, inheritance, and collecting
• Advice for anyone looking to build a career in a competitive creative field

Vanessa’s story proves that there are no wrong choices—only opportunities to combine your passions with purpose.

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Episode Transcript

Vanessa Fusco (00:08):
I didn't like the way history was taught my
social studies classes.
I was so bored and it wasn'tsomething that really engaged
with me.
I thought I'm not.
I'm just not a student ofhistory.
But then what I discovered is Ireally am.
It's just a visual history.
You have to be able to do yourjob well, even if you think you

(00:30):
know everything there is to know.
You know about impressionism,modern art, like you have to be
able to deal with an Excelspreadsheet.
The reason why the 20th centuryreally has always appealed to
me is those two world wars.
And you know what happensduring a time where the world is
turned upside down, whennothing makes sense and artists

(00:57):
are creating new visuallanguages to try to understand
that.
And then you're really kind ofanalyzing it in a different way,
in a formal way, as what it isphysically made of, and when you
break it down in that way,there's no value.
I mean, what is it?
It's materials, basically.
So what creates the value islike, what does it do for you?

(01:19):
It's a really competitive fieldand it's different.
You know, I think of.
I always compare it with likelaw.
You know, you go into law,you're a first year, then you're
a second year.
Everyone kind of advances thesame.
It does not happen that wayhere at all.
But the best thing you can dois really excel, even if it
feels like you're doingsomething mundane.
Prove yourself in your role, inyour position, and show your

(01:41):
interest in your position andshow your interest.

Larry Samuels (01:45):
Hello and welcome to the Career Journey Podcast
No Wrong Choices.
I'm Larry Samuels and I'll bejoined in just a moment by
Tushar Saxena and Larry Shea.
This episode features VanessaFusco of the world-renowned
auction house Christie's.
Before we bring her in, pleasebe sure to support the show by
liking, following or subscribingto it wherever you're listening

(02:05):
right now.
Let's get started Now.
Joining no Wrong Choices isVanessa Fusco.
Vanessa is the internationaldirector and head of
impressionist and modern art atthe world-renowned auction house
Christie's.
She is based in New York City.

(02:26):
Vanessa, thank you so much forjoining us.

Vanessa Fusco (02:28):
My pleasure, nice to be here.

Larry Samuels (02:31):
Did I get all of that right?
Was that the correct title?
That was relatively long.
That is the title yeah, we wereactually sent.

Tushar Saxena (02:41):
Today.
Sam sent us the corrected titlefor you and he was like this is
the short version.
I'm like this is a paragraphlong.

Vanessa Fusco (02:48):
This is the short version we're talking about
here.
It's a multifaceted job.

Larry Samuels (02:53):
So for sure.
Well, can you take us throughthat?
So I can run through a titleand a list, but nobody can tell
us what you do better than you.
So in your own words, who isVanessa and what do you do?

Vanessa Fusco (03:04):
Sure.
Well, I am the head of theImpressionist and Modern Art
Department at Christie's in NewYork and that means that I cover
European art made betweenroughly 1860s and middle of the
20th century, always in Europe.
And what we do at Christie's iswe put together sales and

(03:28):
advise clients on both buyingand selling.
It's consignment based.
So part of my year is spentconvincing clients to sell with
Christie's in our auctions andthen part of my year is spent
working with buyers, you know,to advise them on acquisitions
and whatnot.
We do a lot of appraisals, sothere's time in between all that

(03:51):
where we're helping clientslook at the value of their
artwork for insurance purposes,for gifting purposes, for moving
, you know, paintings within afamily.
There's a variety of reasonsthat someone might need to
understand the value of theirart, and so we do it all.
In the process of preparingsomething to come for sale,

(04:12):
there's a lot of research thatgoes into it.
So I oversee a team who craftthe provenance.
So that's the history of eachobject when has it been?
When has it changed hands?
Where has it traveled over thecourse of its lifetime before
coming to an auction or a sale?
And we do photography, writethe essays try to explain what

(04:35):
the object is, contextualize itfor a buyer and then value it.
So a lot of discussion aboutwhat is the right number to put
on a work of art, what is goingto be the right number to sell
it, to part with it and then forthe buyer what is the right
number to acquire it.
So and other things also, likecatalogs and books.

(04:56):
You know I'm a book editor topart of the year, so I then do
exhibition design, so there's alot that goes into it but that
keeps it fun.

Larry Shea (05:03):
You're hitting on like so many questions that I
have right there.
That's beautiful, I love it,but to be honest, I mean it
sounds like a dream job.
So let's start with the dream,right.
Let's go back to the beginning.
What was the dream?
Was there an art moment thatyou remember from your childhood
, where you're, like forever,enthralled with this world and
the fascination of the art worldand this is what I want to do

(05:25):
for a living?
Or was it something else?
I want to be a doctor or alawyer or something else.

Vanessa Fusco (05:29):
I always was interested in art.
I grew up in New York City.
I went to the amazing museumsthat we have here as a child,
Lucky enough, I went toelementary school a couple of
blocks away from the Met and wewould take visits there, and so
I think art and culture justliving here was always ingrained
in me.

(05:50):
But I really knew nothing aboutthe art world.
It's not something that I hadfamiliarity with, it's not.
You know, I don't come from afamily of collectors.
I didn't grow up with art in myhome.
So you know I came to this artworld as something of an
outsider.
I actually went to college witha desire to be a filmmaker.

(06:11):
I went to Vassar and I took aart history class there, because
they're very well known fortheir art history program and I
just fell in love.
While I say I always enjoyedengaging with art, the idea that
it could be a profession wasvery foreign to me.
It really wasn't something Ihad thought about.
But in college I just reallyenjoyed my art history classes

(06:36):
and then that led to internshipsand work experience and that's
really where I discovered a veryvibrant career path.
But that was mostly non-profit.
That's mostly was in museumworld and small galleries and
the auction house.
You know, art as a commoditywas something I had even less

(07:01):
engagement with and reallysomething that you know, when I
was in school wasn't taught youdidn't, you know, you didn't
cross Art was a study, Art wasan academic pursuit, and at
least the programs that I was inthat's really what it was
treated as.
And the commercial side was abit, you know, a bit frowned

(07:22):
upon.
They weren't trying to breeddealers, they were trying to
breed curators and, you know,academics.
How did I end up at Christie is?
Very randomly, I was out ofschool and wanted to work in the
arts and I was interviewing,and I interviewed for an

(07:42):
entry-level assistant positionhere in the books and
manuscripts department and again, really, you know, with limited
understanding, frankly, of thefunctions of an auction house.
And I also interviewed at theMet and that was in the ancient
Near Eastern department and bothwere entry-level, you know, get
your foot in the door veryadministrative work, both out of
fields that I really wasparticularly interested in, that

(08:06):
I really knew much about.
But I saw it as an entry pointand I was at this crossroads at
that time, deciding between theMet and Christie's, and I chose
Christie's and it's just been amarvelous voyage ever since then
.
I went from the books departmentto the impressionist and modern
art department, which is reallyyou know where my interest lay,

(08:27):
and then I left for a period todo graduate work, also thinking
maybe I wasn't necessarilygoing to come back.
But what I found when I was ingraduate school was that I
really missed the interactionand the engagement you know that
I had with people.
There's so many passionatepeople here that are crazy
specialized and interested invery niche things and you have

(08:50):
access to all of them and you'reworking with them and talking
to them all day long, and I missthat.
Where in graduate school theacademic felt more like I was in
dialogue with a very smallgroup of people who cared about
this very specific thing that Iwas researching, and it was a
lot of time alone, you know, inthe library with my thoughts,
and it was a great experienceand it taught me a lot.

(09:10):
But I went into a PhD programand I ultimately took a leave of
absence from that.
Feeling like this wasn't assatisfying to me.
I wanted to do something morehands-on again with people, and
so I came back to Christie's andworked in what was the museum
services department, which wasreally working with nonprofits,

(09:32):
so kind of holding on to thatacademic side, and then I missed
the objects and so I came backinto Impressionism and Modern
Art as a specialist to work morehands-on with the artwork again
and yeah, it's just been awonderful trajectory since then,
which was in 2014.
So, 11 years ago.

Tushar Saxena (09:49):
So you've been in this world for quite a long
time.
At this point I want to kind ofpick up a little bit on that
first impression of art.
And while you say, obviously,that you know you maybe there
wasn't a great deal ofconnection between, let's say,
as a young child, art and thenseeing that as a career, seeing
it as anything else down theline.
I would have to assume thatsomething kind of touched you
Because you know, as you said,you were not that far away from

(10:11):
the Met as a child when youwould probably often be going
there with school trips.
Was there an artist that youkind of connected with, even as
a child, that you can kind ofremember?

Vanessa Fusco (10:19):
Well, yeah, I mean, the artists that I really
loved were Italian Baroque.
I mean, the artists that Ireally loved were Italian
Baroque.
So, caravaggio, gian LorenzoBernini the sculptor, was
something that I remember justbeing and this is through images
, you know, this is mostly artin Italy, but like I remember

(10:39):
just being amazed by whatBernini could do with marble,
how supple and soft andhuman-like he could make skin
out of such a cold, hardmaterial.
And that craft, just I thought,was so sensational and it
really got me and I had to learnmore about it.
And then I think you know,that's the technical side of the
interest.
But then what always hasinterested me and what I've

(10:59):
always, you know, a lot of mywork in college and in graduate
school was about.
It was how are artists reactingto the times and the moments
they live in?
Right, because some art, someart, feels timeless, some art
feels very dated, some art, youknow, we look at and we think I,
you know I, have nothing incommon with that.
I don't understand it.
And so what is the time andplace in which something was

(11:22):
made?
And understanding that contextto me is so interesting.
It's interesting because when Iwas in school, I love history.
But I really I didn't like theway history was taught my social
studies classes.
I was so bored in them and itwasn't something that really
engaged with me.
So I thought I'm just not astudent of history.
But then what I read?

(11:42):
So I thought I'm not, you know,I'm just not a student of
history.
But then what I discovered is Ireally am.
It's just a visual history, butyou can't really understand
objects without understandingwhat's happening, you know, in
the time and place in which theywere created, because we're all
a product of where we goAbsolutely the time we live in.

Tushar Saxena (12:02):
Yeah, we're all part of the time we live in.
Yeah.

Vanessa Fusco (12:04):
Exactly and you know our cultural output is a
reflection of that.
So a lot of the work I did andthe reason why the 20th century
really has always appealed to meis those two world wars and you
know what happens during a timewhere the world is turned
upside down, when nothing makessense and artists are creating

(12:25):
new visual languages to try tounderstand that.
You know an old language couldno longer be used after World
War I.
There had to be a new language.
So that always reallyinterested me in the way you
know artists are responding towars, major cultural shifts,
atrocities.
It's history through objects.

Tushar Saxena (12:47):
Right, because I was going to say that I went to
Fordham University and I alsowas a history major there, and
while I was not always happywith the way the history courses
were taught, I can absolutelytotally sympathize with you
about how, later in life, I'verealized now how important those
were, because we are allcreatures of the time that we
live in.

(13:07):
And when I entered into theworking world, for me I found
out that my history degreereally helped because I'm a big
sports fan, so I understood thetime of how sports then
resembled the culture and then,obviously, how sports in many
ways was ahead of time.
It was Jackie Robinson breakingthe color barrier, etc.
But not to get up on a tangentthere.
But you said when you went toschool that you saw two things

(13:30):
when you were at Vassar.
One was the idea of thoseacademics frowning upon the
business portion of it beingauction houses, so to speak, and
then obviously being happy withyou know if you want to go a
museum route.
And in some ways you're sayingthat what they said was that
some people are art lovers andsome are not.
Would you consider yourself anart lover?

Vanessa Fusco (13:48):
I'm absolutely an art lover.
I don't love all art, I don'tlove everything I see, but I do
love art and I do love theexperience of going to look at
art and think about art and Ivalue very much artists and
artists' contribution to ourlife, to our culture.
Less about do you love art ordo you not love art?

(14:12):
But I think the discussion ofmoney it takes away from art for
art's sake, it takes away fromthe purity of something Because
at the end of the day I'mworking with very high net worth
individuals and art is part ofa portfolio Don't want to spend
a lot of money on something thatthey don't feel will hold its
value or increase in value.
So there is a whole businessaspect of it and I think that's

(14:34):
what I felt was a bit morefrowned down upon, because then
you're judging in a differentway.
It might be remarkable for itscontribution in a canon, but if
someone's not willing to paymoney for it, I'm not really
talking about it.
So that is where you do see adivergence in interests between

(14:55):
the commercial side and theacademic side.

Larry Samuels (14:57):
I'm really excited to explore all these
wonderful pieces of art that youhad a chance to touch and to
learn about and discover theamazing people you've met.
The one question I want to askabout the beginning of your
journey within the world ofChristie's when you had to make
the choice, or when you made thechoice of entering the world of
art and took the path that youdid, did you meet any resistance

(15:22):
from the art lovers or thetraditionalists, like you
described before, when you madethe decision to take this path?

Vanessa Fusco (15:30):
I think resistance is probably the wrong
word, but yeah, maybe a littlebit of judgment.
You know, certainly when I leftmy PhD program to work at
Christie, you know, I think inundergrad, so many people with
art history degrees don't evenwork in art, christy, you know,
I think in undergrad, so manypeople with art history degrees
don't even work in art.
Ultimately, I think that's alittle.
But you know, once you get tothe point of graduate school and
you know the program, I was inthe PhD program, so I think you

(15:52):
know the expectation was thatyou're finishing, that you're
teaching or you're going to be acurator, and you know I took a
different path and I left and soI think, yeah, a little bit of
maybe judgment, maybedisappointment, you know from-.

Larry Samuels (16:06):
Did you have any hesitation at all?

Vanessa Fusco (16:08):
Of course, of course, yeah, I mean I felt it
was the right thing for me but,like with any decision, one can
question it.
So, yeah, I did have somehesitation but I ultimately I
realized, you know, I wanted tobe back in the workforce and I
wanted to be working in adifferent environment than I was
working in.
And now, looking back on it, Imean, truly, I feel it was the

(16:31):
best decision and absolutely theright decision for me at that
time and with everything that'scome of it since then, I'm so
happy that I made that decisionto quit.
I mean, I looked at it as aleave of absence and I still do
to some extent.
I have a sort of pipe dream offinishing my PhD higher.

Tushar Saxena (16:54):
How far into it were you, by the way.

Vanessa Fusco (16:55):
I did a couple of months of classwork, so I had a
few years to go and what I sawwas a lot of my contemporaries
who stayed with it gettingreally hung up in their
dissertation, losing interest intheir dissertation topic,
feeling like where am I going,what am I doing?
You know, I felt I just wasn't.

(17:17):
It wasn't enough of a passionfor me.
To me I feel like maybe it is aretirement project, you know,
when my kids are grown, when Ihopefully don't need to work
anymore like that for pureinterest.
But as far as advancing thingsfor myself, for a career, I
didn't have it in me to keepgoing with that.

Larry Samuels (17:34):
Understood and we should definitely point out
that Christie's is bringing anamazing thing to the world and
is an incredible institution.
So I want to be clear that theyare bringing something really
special and magical.

Larry Shea (17:46):
I just want to paint a clear picture of what the
path was exactly, though.
I mean, I guess I would ask youknow.
You said you were going forentry level when you left Vassar
and tried to get into thisworld.
Is that still a viable way toget into this field is to just
start from the bottom rung andbe diligent and work your way up
.

Vanessa Fusco (18:05):
Absolutely.
You prove what you can do inyour role and I manage a lot of
people.
I mentor a lot of people.
Now I work with many peoplejust starting out in their
careers and I think that is myadvice always Take your job and
do it well.
And I think it's hard.
It's a different generation nowalso that I'm working with who

(18:27):
are starting out, and I see alot of desire for movement,
forward, movement expectations.
I've done this a certain amountof time, therefore, I should be
advancing Sure.
Sure.
And my world is not that way.
There know, there's a limitedpool of jobs.
You have to be patient, youhave to be diligent.

(18:48):
You have to really, becausethere's also a million people
ready to do your job.
It's a really competitive fieldand it's different.
I always compare it with likelaw.
You know, you go into law,you're a first year, then you're
second year.
Everyone kind of advances thesame.
It does not happen that wayhere at all.
But the best thing you can dois really excel, even if it

(19:10):
feels like you're doingsomething mundane.
Prove yourself in your role andyour position and show your
interest, because there's alwaysroom to expand.
You know, when I was acoordinator back then I was
called administrator I, you knowI asked to write essays for the
catalogs.
I wanted to do sort ofextracurricular work.
Learn more, learn about theobjects, show your interest.

(19:31):
But you know you have to beable to do your job well.
Even if you think you knoweverything there is to know.
You know about impressionism,modern art, like you have to be
able to deal with an excelspreadsheet.
It's a building block.

Tushar Saxena (19:45):
The basics, the basics for sure you mentioned a
moment ago about yourselfbecoming a mentor to people and
we always talk about it here onthe show is that mentors need
mentors, so you know who is yourgreatest mentor.

Vanessa Fusco (19:57):
That's a good question.
I've had a number of greatmentors over the years and
managers and managers that youknow as I changed roles kind of
stayed as mentors.

Tushar Saxena (20:08):
Are they one in the same?
Like is a mentor, a manager Isa manager a mentor.

Vanessa Fusco (20:12):
No, I think you don't really want a mentor to be
your direct manager, you know,I think they're not one in the
same because, also, a mentor issomebody that you want to be
able to go to with a problem,you know, with a challenge maybe
that you wouldn't want to sharewith your direct manager.
So I don't think they'renecessarily one and the same.
They can be, you know, but it'shard to be a really good

(20:34):
manager.
It really is.
But I've benefited from somevery good managers and from some
not so great managers over theyears and you know that's how
you kind of take a little bitand understand what is your own
style and you know what youcould have benefited from having
over the course of your careerand then try to give that back

(20:54):
as you're working with, you know, the next generation.

Larry Shea (20:57):
You know we're going to keep hitting the career
journey path, but I just at thismoment I just feel like I need
to ask no-transcript, like aRoman coin or something like

(21:26):
that, so cool I mean, can youput into words like what it's
like to just have this access?

Vanessa Fusco (21:31):
It's pretty awe-inspiring, but it's also
very humbling and you know a lotof the things that I see and
that I work with.
Its presence in a sale is amoment in time that might not
happen again for many years, andso that can be coming out of
private collections wherethey've been for generations so
unseen.
Not everybody wants to lend toan exhibition, even if the

(21:55):
picture has been requested byevery museum across the world.
Some families just don't do it.
So you can see things that havebeen hanging in a home.
Families just don't do it.
So you know you can see thingsthat have been hanging in a home
enjoyed by a small group ofpeople for multiple generations.
And then it comes out.
I mean we have exhibitions.

(22:19):
They're open to the public.
What we write about a work willbecome part of that work's
history.
You know the research that wedo, what we say about it.
It becomes definite.
That's a description that'sgoing to follow this picture
forever.
Hopefully we get it all right.
That's our goal.
But we see these things, we showthese things.
People can come.
It is technically open to thepublic.
It's not something that'sadvertised, so you don't see

(22:41):
hordes of individuals coming theway people come to museums, but
technically one could.
And then these are works thatmight leave the country, might
not be seen for another,multiple generations.
This could be the only time inlike 200 or 300 years that this
object is exhibited.
So that kind of access isremarkable and it is very

(23:04):
awe-inspiring.
So that kind of access isremarkable and it is very
awe-inspiring, but then, likeanything, it's also a physical
object and part of ourdescription of it, part of our
making sure that we're sellingit correctly, is describing what
it is.
And you have to think past thesort of art, historical
narrative about it and get pastthat awe and look at it as paint
on canvas or bronze withpatination.

(23:25):
And is it perfectly preserved?
Probably not.
You know, with historical work,so what has happened to it over
time?
And then you're really kind ofanalyzing it in a different way,
in a formal way, as it's whatit is physically made of.
And when you break it down inthat way there's no value.
I mean, what is it?
It's materials basically.
So what creates the value islike what does it do for you?

(23:48):
It's really wonderful andreally interesting.

Tushar Saxena (23:52):
Shay's question kind of evoked this image in me
of like you walking into thishome and there's this beautiful,
let's say, monet on the wall,something along those lines, but
it's like you know it's overtheir TV set.

Larry Shea (24:02):
you know seeing something like that it's like
you know it's over their tv set.
You know seeing something likethat, or you know someone's got
this priceless vase and it'susing.

Tushar Saxena (24:08):
It's used to, like you know, hold umbrellas so
like so I'm just like picturinglike this is like what it's
like.
Yes, this vase could be worthlike seven million dollars, but
you know we've been using it fordecades to hold the umbrellas
for everyone who comes in, comesinto the house.
So that to me, kind of blows mymind.

Vanessa Fusco (24:25):
It's a thing in somebody's home.

Tushar Saxena (24:27):
We use it to pop the door open, to let the breeze
in All sorts of crazy things.

Vanessa Fusco (24:32):
You know household cleaners applied to
sculptures being cleaned like atable, like you know, yeah,
paintings in truly ridiculousbut in the bathroom, like you
know, yeah, and there are somepeople who are really invested
in being, you know, goodstewards of the material and see

(24:55):
it as a you know, they're justholding on to something for a
short period, but they have thekind of like understanding of
the importance of preserving it.
And then some people who whodon't, you know, they've
inherited it or they don't knowwhat they have.
It's just something that'salways been around, that they
never thought much about.
There's the gamut of all ofthese types of individuals.

(25:16):
So, yeah, you see some reallycrazy installations, definitely
yeah.

Larry Samuels (25:21):
Do you remember the first unbelievable piece of
art that you were dear hadaccess to as a young person
coming up?
What was that holy cow moment -like I can't believe, I'm
standing and holding this.

Tushar Saxena (25:37):
And where was it?
Was it in the bathroom?
I can't believe it's JacksonPollock in the bathroom.

Vanessa Fusco (25:44):
my first year in the Impressionist and Modern Art
Department.
Christie's sold works by GustavKlimt that were restituted to
the heirs of Adele Bachbauer,and that was really.
That was amazing because thatwas my first.
I mean, I was very early in mycareer.
I wasn't holding, wasn't everholding, the art, the paintings,

(26:06):
but I remember thinking thatthis is first of all the history
of the objects and also thequality.
The fact that these were museumpictures and hence they are in
a museum really amazed me.
And look, 90% of what we sellis not of that level.
It's a variety and there's manysub markets in this larger art

(26:32):
market.
But that really blew me away asa sort of early first
experience.

Larry Shea (26:38):
I read that an auction is basically a show.
Right, You're putting on a showis what you're doing right.
Theater.
Yeah, exactly, you have to keepinterest and you're hyping it
up and you're getting peopleinterested and excited and that
whole thing.
But that takes an army.
So you started kind of on theground floor.
What were the positions thatyou started with and how did you

(27:01):
work your way up that ladder tothe esteemed position that you
are with now?
Do you remember the moments ofpromotion or who you talked to
or who gave you that opportunity?

Vanessa Fusco (27:14):
Yeah, I do.
I remember very well, Iremember all of those moments
and I think you know, when youthink of the production of the
auction, there's so much thatgoes into it.
That is a back end, you know,that is even divorced from the
art.
You know we I'm on thespecialist team, right, so I
work with the artwork, butthere's marketing, there's

(27:35):
shipping, the logistics, there'sthe exhibition design, the hang
.

Larry Shea (27:40):
You know, I just want to say shipping, by the way
, like I've worked in fieldswhere it's not a work of art,
and if you don't get that rightin this world, that's a problem.

Tushar Saxena (27:49):
That's a real problem.

Vanessa Fusco (27:50):
I mean, and also what we do, I mean is truly like
move mountains in advance of anauction, in some cases for the
top end pieces.
We're sending these works allover the world and so you know
you need to have the right teamin place, not only to transport
them, but then in the locationthat you're sending it to.

(28:11):
So a lot, you know a lot of thejob is also talking with my
colleagues in Hong Kong, inTaipei, you know, in London, in
Paris, wherever we're sendingthe works, to prepare them and
make sure they understand youknow what they have.
You know, and sometimes it'sgoing and sometimes it's
accompanying.
We send specialists from NewYork onto the tours as well.
But yeah, that movement is soimportant and that in itself

(28:37):
it's global.
I mean you're transcendingcultures, you're transcending
ways of working.
Sure Temperature humidity, yeah,climates yeah, absolutely.
But yeah so it's such a bigproduction and, you know,
auctioneering in itself is notsomething I do, but that is such
an art and such anextraordinary craft.

(28:59):
So it really is a team.
It's a big team that workstogether to put this all, to get
this all live.
And as far as myself and my ownmoments of promotion, yes, I
remember the decision to leaveChristie's to go to graduate
school, which was a harddecision because I loved the
team and I loved what I wasdoing.

(29:21):
But you know, I was early in mycareer.
It was, I was here three yearsout of college and it was, it
was really my first series ofjobs and I saw a lot of people
had graduate degrees and I, youknow I didn't want to have my
resume thrown out for not havingthat and I had an interest.
You know I had learned now onthe job.
I understood the art world in amore concrete way than I did

(29:44):
when it was much more abstract,you know, before I entered it,
and so I wanted to keep goingand I wanted to do more and I
left again, not necessarilythinking I would come back.
But then, when I decided tocome back, I remember, you know,
the woman who I worked with inmuseum services, who gave me a
huge amount of latitude, a hugeamount of freedom, really

(30:05):
trusted me and I really trustedher and we had a great sort of
working rapport.
I was called an account manager,so it was a little more of a.
It wasn't administrative, wewere still in a support kind of
function and I really I likedthat job a lot because I
traveled.
I traveled all over the US andsaw all the museums, like all

(30:25):
the museums in the country, thesmall, the regional, you know,
and it was amazing to see what'sbeen collected where throughout
America and sort of the historyof collecting in America.
And I created a role for myselfin that team as the associate
director, eventually, of thatdepartment and it was not
something, you know, it wasn'tsomething that existed, but I

(30:47):
was outgrowing the accountmanager and there were a few
titles in between accountmanager and associate director.
But you know, I pushed thelimits and it was sort of like I
want to do more and here's whatI want to do and I think what
I'm doing warrants this title.
And you know, bless her, shegave it to me, she fought for me
to have it and this is a prettybig organization and it's

(31:09):
pretty bureaucratic, but shereally believed in me and fought
for that, so that wasdefinitely a moment that I
remember.
And then I came back into theImpressionist and Modern Art
Department because I learned alot about how to work with the
clients and how to run business,but I really missed being more

(31:30):
connected to the art, and so Iwanted to get back with the art
in a more hands-on way.

Larry Shea (31:36):
I could hear so much ambition there, so I know
that's like a vital part of howyou were able to get to that
next point in your life.
We were talking before we cameon here about you're fluent in
Italian.
You dabble in other languages.
Is language a part of what hasset you apart, that you're able
to speak fluent Italian, andwhat are those other qualities

(31:57):
that kind of set you apart andallowed you to get up that
ladder and move in that careerjourney?

Vanessa Fusco (32:03):
Look, I think language for art is really
important.
In graduate school you have topass German reading,
comprehension and at least oneother romance language, and the
art world is very internationaland for what I do with European
art, I couldn't get away withjust speaking English.
So I think, yes, I think that'sa benefit.
I think some cultural fluidityis also important, because you

(32:28):
know you're working with peoplefrom all over the world, so you
have to have a little bit of acamouflage aspect in that way, I
guess.
So, yeah, I think that wasimportant and otherwise I've
just genuinely been veryinterested and passionate about
this material and I think youknow when, with clients that I

(32:48):
work with, I think theyappreciate the knowledge.
I work with a lot of clients whocome from with a financial
background and you know I haveto talk, I have to converse with
them, I have to talk theirlanguage.
But I don't pretend that thatis my forte, because it's not.
I came to this not as a trader,not as a finance, but not

(33:10):
looking at art as commodity, butcoming from the academic
background and then learning thefinancial part of it, and I
think that works for someclients and for others.
They want someone who's morelike this is going to have a 6%
return on investment year overyear.
That's not my year, that's notmy style, that's not my thing,
and I also think it's impossibleto really say that.

(33:31):
So, yeah, I think that thatkind of real passion and
knowledge, it's what I want tolead with, it's what I ask my
team to lead with and, again, Ithink it's you see this a lot,
as we discussed, of you knowwanting to move forward, this
idea to move forward, and Ireally believe you need you know
.
At the time you're standing infront of a client and you get

(33:52):
that opportunity, you reallybetter know what you're talking
about.
So, like you, you know theseare people who are really
excelling in all of theirvarious fields.
Don't bullshit them.
Get the knowledge, build it upthrough the library, build it up
through spending time in thewarehouse, build it up through
being with the artwork, so thatwhen you finally are put in

(34:13):
front of them, you really canbelieve in your own expertise.
I mean, that's what it'sexpertise, that's what sets you
apart.
There's a million art advisors,there's a million people, you
know, willing to help you makean art collection.
So to me, it's all expertisethere's.

Tushar Saxena (34:34):
There's nothing else.
There's nothing else to holdyour hat on.
You said you know, as a youknow, larry Shea said before
that he's a collector.
I have to admit I'm a collectorof I've been a longtime
collector of comic books, andyou talked about the notion of
you guys, and we'll get back toa bit of the business aspect of
it, which is setting the pricefor us for any, for any piece of
art, right?
So I know that, as a collector,the most basic idea is that

(34:54):
rarity dictates price and agreat deal, a great deal of the
sense there.
Um, and obviously we're dealingwith, you know whether it be,
you know whether it be, you know, a chagall or thing of that
nature.
He didn't make 50 copies of aspecific painting, he made one.
So, by definition, it'sextremely rare.
So, what are the factors thatgo into determining numbers

(35:19):
behind the value of a painting?
We've had a couple of artistson this show who talk about hey,
this is the amount of time I'vespent on a specific painting.
Therefore, I believe it's isthe amount of time I've spent on
a specific painting.
Therefore, I believe it's worthX amount of dollars.
So then, what are the factorsthat go into what makes a $100
million painting $100 million.

Vanessa Fusco (35:36):
Yeah, so it's definitely.
Rarity is a big part of thatQuality and the benefit I have.
I don't work with livingartists.
I work with artists whose workis complete so I can look at it
in its entirety and nothing elseis being made.
So nothing is going to be addedto this and in fact, to take

(35:58):
that a further level, things areonly going to be taken away
because works get donated tomuseums.
It's actually diminishingsupply because nothing else is
being produced.
So the rarity and the quality,where does that work sit within
an artist of, within an artist'sbody of work?
Freshness, so provenance, again, the market loves something

(36:21):
that's a discovery, that hasbeen in a private collection,
buried for decades, unseen,unknown, you know, versus
something that has, you know,four years ago was seen on the
dealer's booth at Basel and thenwas subsequently, you know,
traded hands two years ago.
The more things trade hands,you can't really quantify it,

(36:46):
but the more something hastraded hands in a way, the less
desirable it is.
You wonder how come nobody'sreally living with it.
So that provenance and thatfreshness is really important.
Condition you know some thingsthat are wonderful works of art
but they're a wreck, you know.

Tushar Saxena (37:04):
They've been holding the door open.

Vanessa Fusco (37:09):
I mean they had a bad conservation project, a bad
conservation job done to it 50years ago when conservation
practices were very different.
Paintings conservation is arelatively new phenomenon and
there's a lot of things thatwere done in like the 50s and
60s that you would never do now.
Did they have an interventionthat has kind of irreparably

(37:33):
damaged the value of the picture.
And then you know, we do relyupon comparables because, even
though everything, you know, Idon't do prints, I don't do
multiples, everything bronzesare edition pieces, so, but
paintings, drawings, it's allunique works of art, but there't
do multiples, everything Ibronzes are edition pieces, so,
but paintings, drawings, it'sall unique works of art, but
there's comparables.
So you know, like, take Monet,monet worked in series, so you

(37:54):
know there's certain seriesHaystacks, the Nymphaeus, these
are the top end.
There's other series, you know,that are lesser value, so
you're still working within arange of values for any given
type of object.
And then it really, you know,so you're still working within a
range of values for any giventype of object, and then it
really, you know, so you'relooking at comparables, but the
way we train it really is like amuscle, the pricing muscle.

(38:16):
So you're wanting to develop agut feeling where, yes, you.
Then you know, you double check, you look, you see, you know
what else has sold at whatprices.
But you're really trying togain, like a reflex, to be able
to assess a work of art and puta value on it.
So those are all of the factorsthat come into play.

Larry Samuels (38:40):
Where do the artists?
Sorry, sorry.

Vanessa Fusco (38:42):
Larry.
Like you know some artists arejust worth more than others.
Period.

Larry Samuels (38:47):
Right, right.
Where do you find the works ofart?
I imagine some people bringthings forward.
Do you try to secure things anddo you seek things out?

Tushar Saxena (38:59):
how antique roadshow is it?

Vanessa Fusco (39:01):
I mean that's kind of got to be the question,
right?
Yeah, I mean, the nice thingabout working somewhere like
Christie's is the power of thebrand.
So you know, everybody knowsChristie's, everybody knows
Christie's and Sotheby's.
You know, and if you have avaluable work of art, you are
going to usually make at leastthose two phone calls.
And this is, you know,excluding dealers.

(39:23):
And you know, but you know, forthe auction route you're going
to make those two phone calls.
So because of the power of thebrand, there is a lot of
reaction.
It's a little morbid, but thetimes in which somebody is
selling it's the sort offundamentals of the business are
the three Ds, which is deathand debt and divorce.

Larry Shea (39:48):
So those are the times that people need to sell
their artwork.

Vanessa Fusco (39:50):
Wow, rough times.

Larry Samuels (39:52):
So you're also in therapy and you have spent a
lot of time with people.
That's the best part of theirlife.

Larry Shea (39:58):
Nobody does it.
To just start with the worldArbitration?
It's not glamorous.

Vanessa Fusco (40:04):
And then I should add there can be a bit of a
seven-year itch with artworkalso.
You know people just want tolike, redo.
I've been living with something.
I'm getting tired of it.
But a lot of at least for myfield a lot of it is estates and
you know the next generationeither will often can't live
with everything because theyhave that estate tax to pay.

(40:27):
And also, what do you divideamong siblings?
You can't divide an object, youcan divide money and it keeps
it a little easier.
It keeps things equitable fromfamilies that might be siblings.
Everyone has their familydynamics right, so it's like you
have to just divide.
And so that's often when we getinvolved and it's a very

(40:50):
emotional time in people's lives.
You know when someone haspassed away and you're entering
somebody's life at a time ofchallenge and emotion and you
know they have all of this todeal with.
But selling and dividing themoney is always like a very
clean, easy way to do it.
So I'm losing my.
I lost my train of thought.
Why was I talking about this?

(41:11):
Just how?
you find, so yeah a lot comes tous.
But, then you know there's alot that we do proactively also
and that's part of working withclients.
The buying side you know I havesomeone who is looking for X.
Let me go out and find it andmake that match.

(41:35):
Try to convince somebody tosell because I have a buyer for
it.
So I'd say it's mostly.
It's probably maybe 70%reactive, 30% proactive.
But that's also because youknow we're lucky, people call us
.

Larry Shea (41:55):
Yeah, while we're at this particular bus stop, it
seems like a good time to askthe cast of characters that you
must deal with on a day-to-daybasis.
No names, you don't have toname any names.
Begins to be cool, right?
I mean, you must have storyafter story of like dealing with

(42:18):
individuals both inside theauction world and outside you
know, that are selling or whathave you, or purchasing.
You must have a cast ofcharacters, story or two, have
you, or?

Vanessa Fusco (42:26):
purchasing, you must have a cast of characters,
story or two.
There's a lot of reallyfascinating and eccentric
personalities, and that is bothyou know people I work with and
also you know internally andexternally with the clients.

Larry Samuels (42:45):
So yeah, I mean, there's a lot of stories, some
stones are best left unturned,knowing that you can't tell
those stories.
I'm curious have you ever dealtwith a fraud?
Has anybody ever broughtsomething forward that was not
real, that you eventuallyuncovered along the way?

Vanessa Fusco (43:05):
Frequently word that was not real, that you
eventually uncovered along theway.
Frequently, I, I, I'd say,ma'am, we look at at least one
fake work every day.
I mean, we get sent oh, there'sa lot of a lot of it, doesn't
you know?
You hit delete like it's pretty, it's pretty clear, but there's
a lot of, there's a lot offakes, but there's a lot of,

(43:27):
there's a lot of fakes, there'sa lot of fakes, there's a lot of
forgeries out there.
It just is what it is again, alot of it is very poorly done.
You know, I think also with alot of modern art.
You hear, sometimes people arelike, oh, like I could do that,
you, you can't.
And when you try to, I say thatall the time I got that I can
do that.

(43:53):
And you know you, it is like youknow it's the same muscle Like
you, you just know you, just you, you know, do things get by?
Of course, and there is a.
You know there's an authentic,there's a formal authentication
process for a lot of the artworkthat that I handle.
But you know we're pretty goodfirst guard that we're not going

(44:15):
to even put something throughthat process that we don't
believe in.
But you see, fake stamps, fakestickers, fake like exhibition
labels, fake provenance I meanthe gamut really and then some
things that are just copies.
So you know you say no, that'sactually, you know the MFA

(44:35):
Boston.
So I know you don't have it.
But yeah, people send a lot ofthings that are not real.

Larry Shea (44:44):
It's a great question, though there's so many
other things we want to get to.
There's a billion things herebut I want to talk about, like,
a life in the day.
Is there a standard life?
But I think I want to know atthis point, like, have you
caught the bug?
Have you ever gone to anauction?
Like, do you have a collectionyourself?
Are you seeking pieces?

Tushar Saxena (45:02):
How many grenades ?

Larry Shea (45:02):
do you have on the wall?
Yeah, right, so.

Vanessa Fusco (45:05):
I do have a collection, but it's mostly
artists that I know.
So my husband, my husband is apainter.
That's a hobby mostly.
But we have a lot of, you know,friends who are artists and so
you know, for us the artworkthat we have is very personal.
We know most of the artists.
I wish I had Monet's, but alsoI know I'm not in a position in
my life right now to stewardthem appropriately because I

(45:27):
have a six-year-old and a14-month-old, so they're going
to get nowhere near no nobolognese on the wall If.
I could afford it, but you know.

Larry Samuels (45:35):
Little spaghetti sauce over there, a sip of
butter up there.

Vanessa Fusco (45:39):
I will not put anything through that.
And yes, I have caught the bugI love.
And yes, I have.
You know I have caught the bug.
I love looking and discovering,you know, little things like in
auctions.
You know I don't really bid onthem because, again, I don't
feel like I'm in a good place inmy life to bring valuable
things into my home.

(45:59):
But you know, the art that wehave is all very personal and a
lot of my husband's work alsoVery good.

Larry Shea (46:06):
So let's get back to the you know a day in the life
kind of thing Like is there atypical day slash week, that you
, they're all different?

Vanessa Fusco (46:15):
I could see you shaking, just like changes
everything you know and that canbe coming from a client who you
never thought would sell theirex and all of a sudden they want

(46:45):
to talk about it and you knowyou're not prepared.
You have no, you have noforesight for that and and there
you are, having that discussionsomeone could?
Pass away someone you know, whoyou use collection you know,
but wouldn't you know, wasn't onyour, on your radar to become

(47:06):
available, could pass away andall of a sudden, there it is.

Larry Shea (47:09):
it is you mentioned Sotheby's.
Is it competitive?

Larry Samuels (47:12):
when that happens .

Larry Shea (47:13):
Extremely.

Vanessa Fusco (47:14):
Yeah, extremely.

Larry Shea (47:15):
Is it like Clash of the Titans?
I'll come in at this number andI'll give you a minimum of this
.

Vanessa Fusco (47:24):
Yeah, you're pitching your services and of
course, that's about the price,because, again, the pricing is
set by us, right With it's bythe experts, like what do we
think we can sell this for?
And so who?
Everyone wants to hear higherprice not always the right move,
but everybody wants to hearlower commission.
And we've got to charge, soright.

(47:47):
So then it's about you know howmuch do we believe in it, how
much do we want it, and we gooften head to head with
Sotheby's.

Larry Shea (47:59):
Do you guarantee a minimum?
We will we can we do?

Vanessa Fusco (48:02):
Either Christie's does or we contract with third
parties to do that.
And so I'd say you know that'sof interest for some sellers and
not all, because you'reguaranteed a minimum.
But in exchange for that kindof insurance policy you have to
give up a portion of the upside.
So you know it depends on howrisk averse you are.

(48:23):
Some people are gamblers, somepeople want to play, some people
want say you know, I believe inmy work, put it in naked,
unbacked.
I'll even take a lower estimatebecause I know it's going to do
so well, and then- Welcome tothe show.
And then others want aninsurance policy and some want a
high price that's unachievable,and we walk away and say, you

(48:45):
know, we just don't think we cando this for you.
So this is where, yeah, you getdiffering opinions sometimes,
and then sometimes you reallyget the houses fighting to work
with your material.

Tushar Saxena (49:00):
You know you mentioned a moment ago about the
how you, how are thesecollections come into your, come
into your, your house?
Is that the case that your yourday-to--day or not your
day-to-day, but your Rolodex isessentially people you
constantly or you essentiallydeal with all the time, whether
they be brokers or collectors.
It just can't simply be likethe random family that comes in

(49:22):
and says, hey, I've got a garagefull of unbelievably valuable
paintings.

Vanessa Fusco (49:26):
I mean, there must be an ecosystem, yeah there
is very much an ecosystem andyou know it's a big team, it's a
big international team and wework together and we communicate
together so that we aredelivering the best service you
know to our clients worldwide.
That said, sometimes there arerandoms, sometimes there is a
random walk-in.

(49:46):
You know it happens, but forthe most part things are very.
You know the people in the artworld.
The people who we know have artare very well covered and you
want to yeah, you want to beengaging with them.
Of course, a natural time to doso is during the sales, because
you are, you know, you inviteinto the exhibition even if

(50:07):
you're not buying or selling theseason.
If you love art, you lovecoming to see.
So it's an upkeep of arelationship is a huge part.
It's historically really arelationship-driven business.
You want to make sure thatyou're in a position to get that
call.
You often will have to competefor it, but if you have the

(50:28):
right relationship with theseller or the buyer, you know
you, you, you can do more forthe clients.

Tushar Saxena (50:35):
You know, and we've talked a little bit about
the notion of what, let's say,how do you envision your role in
all of this?
I mean, obviously you've youhave the academic background
where you know there's the ideaof arts for art's sake, but
you're also obviously on theother side of that, where, where
art is a commodity, uh, thereis a price to it.
What does he?

(50:55):
What do you feel yourresponsibility is in this world?
About maintaining, uh, aboutmaintaining this, uh, this
rather unique, uh, this uniqueform?
Uh, here Is it.
Are you, are you, uh, is itmore that you are someone who
wants to deal more with the ideaof art for art's sake, or is it
that you do have a business torun?

Vanessa Fusco (51:17):
Well, there's definitely a business to run.
I couldn't exist in a world ofart for art's sake, doing what I
do, and so for me it's really,when I'm working with sellers, I
really want to get the mostmoney possible for them.
And you know, with buyers youwant to make sure they're paying

(51:37):
a fair price.
But what an object might beworth to one person and to
another person can be different,right, based on their needs and
based on what they want.
To another person can bedifferent, right, based on their
needs and based on what theywant.
And you know, some people havebeen looking for the thing for
so long and never found thething right, and then when they

(52:01):
have it, like they're willing topay more for it than somebody
who just comes in and is likeyeah, I like it you know.
oh, that would fit perfectly inmy bathroom, Like you know.

Tushar Saxena (52:09):
I can use the door open.
So there's different.

Vanessa Fusco (52:10):
You know there's different needs, but
fundamentally you want to makesure that you're leading with
integrity Right and like.
For me, there's not anytransaction, there's not any
single transaction that would beworth undermining the integrity
, because these are long lastingrelationships and whatever I
will get out of a transaction,if it's undoing a relationship

(52:35):
it's.
It will never be worth it.

Larry Samuels (52:38):
Now you you bring up the word integrity, which
leads me to a question that thatI'd wanted to get to.
So this might be a little bitof a left-hand turn.
However, I'm curious aboutrights to different works of art
.
You know, before I asked aboutauthentication and validation of
things, ownership Do peoplebring works of art forward that

(53:02):
they do not have the rights toor do not have the ownership
history with, like I think aboutWorld War II, for example, and
so many pieces of art that weretaken from people's homes and
people's families and weredistributed all throughout the
world how do you verifyownership of a piece of art?

Vanessa Fusco (53:21):
So current ownership and historical
ownership right, two differentthings.
So current ownership there arerights and warranties that
somebody has to give when theysign a contract with us.
Ultimately, if you can producethe picture, that's a good sign.

(53:43):
Things get filtered through theart loss registry, right, so to
make sure that we're not dealingwith anything that's stolen.
And it does happen that we'resent things that people are
prospecting or you know.
Every now and then, you know,you'll even get the feeling like
this picture was taken at aparty and somebody's like asking

(54:05):
for a value and they don'treally own it.
So you just you have to useyour judgment, you have to talk
to the people who you're workingwith and you can figure it out.
You can figure it out prettyeasily when somebody is in
control and yeah, and it'sexperience right If it feels
right or doesn't feel right.
Historical ownership is a wholeother big topic, you know,

(54:28):
because somebody could ownsomething today that was taken.
You know, you take the case ofNazis like was taken from a
previous owner unlawfully, andyou know.
But that doesn't mean that theperson who owns it today doesn't
own it.
But there is going to be workto do right, there's going to be

(54:48):
a reckoning to be had.
So and this is something thatyou see a lot in my field
because of the time that theworks were produced and what
they lived through.
So that's why being able todelineate and be clear about the
wartime provenance is reallyimportant.

(55:10):
You know, and there's certainartists that the Nazis took
right.
There's a lot of artists thatwere just collected by Jewish
families in Germany and Austriaand those are.
You know you have to be extracareful when you're looking at
those artists and make sure thatyou really are able to
understand the wartimeprovenance.

(55:32):
But it's hard.
It can be like looking forneedle in a haystack sometimes.
So it's a lot of work and we'llhold things out of a sale so
that we can do that work andmake sure that when we do
present to the world that we canpass on a clear title.

Larry Shea (55:49):
Great answer no.
Wrong Choices is a show aboutchasing your dreams, and that's
kind of how we started thiswhole conversation.
So I have to ask you, I mean,are you living the dream right
now, like it feels like you'reat the pinnacle of your career?
Like your job seems so superglamorous, like where else Is
there any place to go up for you, because I feel like you're at

(56:10):
the pinnacle, like no.

Vanessa Fusco (56:12):
There certainly, is there certainly I mean
there's many levels above me atchristie's but like, yeah, I
mean I, I'm very, I'm veryinterested in my work.
You know, and I, yeah, thesmile is clear.
I do love my job look, am Idoing exactly what I want to be
doing every moment of every day?

(56:33):
Of course not.
There's aspects of my job thatI find totally boring, that I
don't want to do and that, youknow, intrigue me, and there,
you know, there's the mundanefor every any work.
But fundamentally, I really dolike what I do and you know it
keeps me going.
It keeps me going.
You know I really do like whatI do and you know it keeps me
going.
It keeps me going.

(56:53):
You know I mentioned I haveyoung kids.
Like it's hard.
It's hard right now, but Idon't want to sacrifice this
that I've worked so hard tobuild.
And you know I'm at a position,at least having been here for
so long, where I can find mybalance and make sure that I'm
able to do both.
You know, am I doing both aswell as I could and want to?
Probably not, but something'sgot to give, you know, and so I

(57:15):
make sure I can stay balancedwith that.
But ultimately, what I feel ison the other side, you know,
when they're older and when Istill have this is going to be
amazing and keep me going.

Tushar Saxena (57:30):
Before we let you go and I know we've, before we
let you go, I know we got to letyou go.
We were looking at theChrissy's website before we got
on myself and Larry Samuels, andI noticed that they that it
recently had sold a Picasso, avase that Picasso had planted on
, which sold for a little overhalf a million dollars.
And it just seems to me likethat seems like so, so cheap,
it's a bargain.
So I was like seem like that,seems like so, so cheap bargain.

Vanessa Fusco (57:52):
So I was like I was joking with like half a
million, I'd buy two of them.

Tushar Saxena (57:53):
How does that happen my god.

Vanessa Fusco (57:55):
Well, so those vases are additions, so they're
not unique, right?
So picasso himself did notpaint them.

Tushar Saxena (58:04):
They were based on picasso's designs, but the
volume they're not even real,Picasso's selling for half a
million?
I couldn't recall, but you knowthe vase.

Vanessa Fusco (58:14):
I think you are the vase you might be speaking
about.
Actually, it's something thatcame to mind.
I don't know if it's this oneor not, but I'll say I did have
an experience with a vase where,when we looked, when we, you
know, examined it and went tolook inside it, there were
pistachio shells.
Oh, geez.

Tushar Saxena (58:33):
Absolutely.
I'd pay a half million for that.
Oh, that's perfect For PabloPicasso's pistachio shells.

Vanessa Fusco (58:41):
It's a functional thing that someone at a party
put pistachio shells Great.

Tushar Saxena (58:45):
That is very, very fun.
They use it to prop the dooropen there you go.

Larry Samuels (58:52):
So, vanessa?
Final question before we letyou go A young person who wants
to enter this world, who looksand sees Vanessa and says I want
to be her someday.
What advice do you have forsomebody who's starting out in
this world?

Vanessa Fusco (59:06):
Take any job where you can prove yourself,
because, especially here, it'sgetting the foot in the door
right.
And once you, once you're hereand you can show that you are
hardworking, that you'rediligent, that you're thoughtful
, creative, I really believe,like there, there are many paths

(59:28):
and I think that's it.
Do do your job.
Do your job well, rather thanyou know.
Of course, you want to haveambition, you want to have
objectives, you want to havedreams, but I really believe in
the building blocks and I reallybelieve that you're not going
to get that step unless you canexcel in what you're doing.

(59:50):
So take what you've been givenand excel in it.
You're get a position at thefront counter.
Be the best person at the frontcounter.
Be the person that everybodysays oh, they know what's going.
I'm going to go ask thembecause I know I'm going to get
the answer that I want.
I'm going to get the answerthat I want.
I'm going to get the attentionthat I want.

(01:00:11):
You know, take whatever youhave and really do it, because
that is going to give people thebelief that's going to make you
grow.
And you're always learning.
That's the thing you have.
You have access to this world.
You're learning, even if itseems like maybe you're not
doing the exact thing that youwant to do, learn from it.

(01:00:32):
You know you're you're.
You know filing things.
Read what you're filing, learnabout it.
And I think you know havingthat curiosity and that drive.
To me, it's like you can'tteach that.
You teach a lot about the roleany role right you can teach the
role.
You can teach a lot about therole any role right, you can

(01:00:53):
teach the role.
But you can't teach that kindof fundamental drive and that
understanding right.
So I think that for me, youknow, it's what I've built my
career in and I really believein it and it's what I look for,
you know, and what I tell peoplewho, like, are here and want to
do the next thing and it's like, well, you got to nail this

(01:01:14):
first.

Larry Samuels (01:01:16):
Well, that is great advice and you clearly
have lived that, because whatyou have achieved is quite
remarkable and and absolutelyfascinating for our listeners
out there.
I've known Vanessa for a littlebit and I discovered what she
does for a living not that longago and I immediately said I
have to find a way to get her onthis program.

(01:01:37):
So, Vanessa, thank you forfinally breaking down and
joining us today.

Vanessa Fusco (01:01:42):
Thank you, it's been a great conversation.

Larry Samuels (01:01:46):
So that was Vanessa Fusco of Christie's, who
so generously and graciouslyagreed to come on the program
with us today.
Tushar, what are your keytakeaways?

Tushar Saxena (01:01:57):
My one big takeaway is how many questions I
had left to ask this morning.
The amount of questions that weleft on the table are amazing.
We could have spoken to her foranother hour.

Larry Shea (01:02:06):
Let's go for part two.

Tushar Saxena (01:02:08):
Yes, such a fascinating conversation.
Um, it really is a mysteriousworld for all of us, right?
I mean, we just kind of see theend result, uh, of anywhere, we
, of anytime.
We see these auctions whenthey're for big dollars, etc.
So you've always got to wonder,like, what does it be?
What does it mean to be thatperson who's kind of in it all
the time?
And I was very surprised by thefact that, you know, she

(01:02:29):
understands her role within thisworld.
Right, she's part art lover butalso part business person,
because that's where she kind ofstands on that.
She stands on that fence, thatfence line there, which is, you
know, she is not an academic,but she understands the
academics who kind of turn theirnose up to this world.
But at the same time, withoutthe, without the sale of these

(01:02:52):
paintings, you know, in manycases people would never know
that they exist, people wouldnever know that, that these
types of that, these types ofworks of truly timeless art are
out there and that, you know,it's the glamour to it that
sometimes is so wonderful.
She, she has a glamorous life,let's be honest, she's got a
really cool job.
And when you said, hey, sam, atthe end of it, a piece of

(01:03:14):
advice for someone who's youngand wants to get into the
industry.
What about someone who's 53?

Larry Samuels (01:03:17):
years old and wants to get into the industry.

Larry Shea (01:03:20):
Come on.

Tushar Saxena (01:03:21):
Somehow I can't make a change as well.
I would love to be part of thatright, it's timeless for a
couple of reasons.
One is that, you know, youdon't simply have to be a lover
of art, because I think at theend of it, it's also about being
the idea of a collector.
Right, shay, you talked aboutit, you're a coin collector, I'm
a comic book collector, so Iunderstand that notion of you

(01:03:41):
know there's a certain amount ofreal awesome gamesmanship to
the hunt of finding things, tothe hunt of finding the
provenance behind things,finding things, to the hunt of
finding the provenance behindthings.
And then also you want to havecool stuff in your collection.
At the end of the day, I thinkthat's that is just an
unbelievably cool job and, tokind of pull the veil off that a
little bit, I was really,really enthralled by the whole
conversation yeah, those aregreat, great points.

Larry Shea (01:04:02):
t?
um not to be too generic, but Imean it's quite simple do
something you love and you'llnever work a day in your life, I
mean but you could just hearher passion and her joy when she
was talking about what she doesfor a living and it shows and
I'm sure it's displayed in theway she does her job as well and
I was really struck by heradvice stuff.

(01:04:23):
You know, and I always am.
I always try to really dig intothat advice because I think
that's that's the importantthread of this show.
She talked about getting in thedoor and do the job.
If you're going to get thefront desk job, be the best
front desk person there, theperson who has all the answers
You're filing.
Read the files, learn something.

(01:04:45):
When I started working forSteely Dan a million years ago,
it was my first job out ofcollege.
That's what I did and it was assimple as like learn how to
answer the phones properly.
What do I say?
What do I not say?
You know, do I say thisperson's here or do I just be
vague?
If I'm going to clean thebathroom and I mean it people

(01:05:08):
make it sparkle man.
Because if you're going to dothe job, the only way you're
going to graduate to that nextjob is if you do it with joy, do
it with ease and do it withperfection, and that's what life
is all about and be a joy towork with.
We talk about that all the timetoo.
Who wouldn't want to work withVanessa after this interview?
I mean, she's a delight.
So you know, just be a goodperson, do the job and do it

(01:05:29):
with conviction, and and I thinkthat's a great deal of a.

Tushar Saxena (01:05:33):
It reminds me a great deal of a book I read
years ago.
You know one of these.
One of these, uh, another oneof these, like you know,
timeless, uh, business bookswritten by pat riley actually
the winner within right, wherethe line in the book is never
demean your time in the trenches.
And that's really what her, herbasic advice, is right.
Never demean your time in thetrend in the trenches's really
what her basic advice is right.
Never demean your time in thetrenches.
You said it yourself.
If you're going to get coffeefor people, oh my God, be the

(01:05:55):
best person out there who getscoffee, for everybody knows what
everyone wants, et cetera.
You want to be.
You know you're going to filepapers for the day.
Well, learn whatever the hellyou can about the business that
you're in.
I mean, part of it is you haveand she's right no-transcript.

(01:06:15):
You've got to be at leastshowing a certain amount of
aptitude for what you're doing,and that is work ethic from
within.

Larry Samuels (01:06:20):
For sure.
You know the phrase that I wasthinking of as she was talking
about.
That is, the cream always risesto the top, and I've managed
many teams in my lifetime andrun companies, and you can
always tell who that specialperson is, or who those special
people are that one way oranother, are going to find a way

(01:06:41):
to make it up the ranks andreally be stars.
And it's from within.
It's a passion, it's a drive,it's a way of being, it's a way
of life, and I thought that wasvery interesting advice.
You know, another key takeawayfor me was being a product of
your environment.
You know, growing up in NewYork City and having access to

(01:07:04):
all of these museums and all ofthis culture, these museums and
all of this culture and that'swhere I am talking to you all
from right now is somethingreally extraordinary and really
special.
And she had the opportunity totake advantage of all of those
things and clearly it showed hera world that many other people
might not see, and she wrappedher arms around it and created a

(01:07:26):
path that, again, is trulyextraordinary.
So, vanessa, thank you again forjoining us on this episode of
no Wrong Choices.
Good yeah, I liked it.
We also thank you for joiningus.
If this episode inspired you tothink of somebody who could be

(01:07:47):
a great guest, please let usknow via the contact page of our
website, which can be found atnorongchoicescom.
Be sure to check out our blogwith takeaways from each episode
while you're there.
We also ask that you supportthe show by following us on
LinkedIn, instagram, facebook,youtube X and Threads On behalf
of Larry Shape, tushar Saxenaand me, larry Samuels, thank you

(01:08:09):
again for joining us.