Dave Crafa: Building a Studio, a Community, and a Career in Music

What does it take to turn a dorm room studio into a New York City institution?

In this episode of No Wrong Choices, we explore the remarkable career journey of Dave Crafa, the founder of Cutting Room Studios—one of NYC’s most respected recording spaces. Dave shares how his love of music and science led him to Berklee, NYU, and eventually the creation of a studio that has recorded the likes of Shakira, Cardi B, David Byrne, Red Hot Chili Peppers, and John Legend.

But this episode isn’t just about big names—it’s about big decisions, hard-earned lessons, and staying open to unexpected opportunities. From navigating the collapse of the traditional music industry to innovating during the streaming era, Dave opens up about the pivots and sacrifices behind 30 years of creative entrepreneurship.

🎧 Whether you're passionate about music, creativity, or building something from scratch, this episode is filled with insights that go far beyond the studio.

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Episode Transcript

Dave Crafa (00:03):
Oh my God, when you discover the power chord as a
young, you know, like 13 yearold and the distortion box,
you're like, oh my God, Ifigured it out.
You're taught to, like, makethe tough choices and you know,
don't take the easy path, andsometimes the easy path is where
you're supposed to go.
Yeah, you know, madonna washiring DJs to produce her record

(00:24):
.
Take the easy path andsometimes the easy path is where
you're supposed to go.
Yeah, you know, madonna washiring djs to produce her record
and djs are becoming like rockstars.
You're watching the dreamevolve and, um, what's better
than that?
I think I was making like 45,50 000 at, like, my little space

(00:45):
and I thought, oh my God, thisis amazing.
The next year we were making$450,000.
Yeah, like, wow, creativitywill prevail, even though the
future is.
You know, it's delicate andit's terrifying and it's
fascinating.
It's delicate and it'sterrifying, and it's fascinating

(01:06):
.

Larry Samuels (01:06):
Hello and welcome to the Career Journey Podcast,
no Wrong Choices.
Today's guest is the founder ofthe Cutting Room Studios in New
York City, dave Krafa.
I'm Larry Samuels, I'm TusharSaxena and I'm Larry Shea.
We'll be your hosts for whatwill undoubtedly be a
fascinating conversation aboutbreaking into and thriving in

(01:27):
the music business.
Before we kick things off,please be sure to like, follow
and subscribe to the showwherever you're listening Now.
Let's get started Now.
Joining no Wrong Choices isDave Krafa.
Dave is the owner and founderof the Cunning Room Studios, a
legendary recording studio basedin New York City.

(01:47):
That studio has supportedcountless great artists,
including Grammy winners such asShakira, cardi B, david Byrne,
the Red Hot Chili Peppers, johnLegend and the list literally
goes on and on.
Dave, thank you so much forjoining us.

Dave Crafa (02:04):
Oh, it's great to be here.
Thanks so much for having me.

Tushar Saxena (02:07):
Hey Dave, what exactly is it do you do?
What's your day-to-day looklike?
What do you do for a living?

Dave Crafa (02:12):
Well, I do own a recording studio called the
Cutting Room Studios here in NewYork.
It's 30 years this year, so ourjob really is to help the
talent become the best that theycan and be relaxed and record
them in a way that allows thebest part of their performances

(02:35):
to be captured and shared withthe world Right yeah.
In doing so.
We have a great team and we allreally enjoy being the best at
what we do.
Yeah, we kind of are like atalent incubator in in certain
ways, as well as like workingwith you know, uh, well-known
artists, right, we have.
We have actually uh, createdthrough our ranks, record

(02:58):
producers, uh, especially uh,you know when, when larry was
with us, uh, in in the late 90s.
It's very, I wouldn't say verycommon, but it's not surprising
to have some of our staff gothrough the evolution of
internship to getting a positionwith the company, whether it's

(03:22):
an assistant, and then workingtheir ways through the ranks to
kind of realize their own dreamsand their own careers.
And you know, we've, we've hada good many examples of that,
right, a lot of dimensions toyou know, our, our studio and
our, our, our generations offamilies that you know have come

(03:43):
through, you know, the studio.
Yeah, you, you're giving meaway here, late 90s, you're
giving my age away ourgenerations of families that
have come through this video.
Yeah, you're giving me away here, late 90s.

Larry Shea (03:49):
You're giving my age away here, dave, mine too, man,
let's be careful with that.
Was that a secret?

Dave Crafa (03:54):
You're looking pretty good, man.
Larry's hair has been graysince the 90s.
I've never seen his hair likehis normal color.

Larry Shea (04:02):
It's not as if people can't see the color of
your hair, because obviouslythat doesn't give anything away.
Who, do you think, gave me all?
this gray hair, dave Krafa iswho gave me all this gray hair
yeah, I guess, that's a goodpoint.
So no full disclosure.
We always talk about this.
I worked for Dave.
I managed Cutting RoomRecording Studios from about
1997 to mid-2000, so about threeand a half years I was there

(04:24):
managing.

Dave Crafa (04:25):
It seems like so much longer.

Larry Shea (04:28):
I know you always say that.

Dave Crafa (04:29):
I guess we've just been friends for many years,
many years, that's right, exceptfor those couple of years.

Larry Shea (04:34):
So we worked.
Yeah, we did have a couple ofyears.

Dave Crafa (04:38):
Not only were we not friends, we were kind of like
oh.
I'm never talking to that guy,ever again.
That's how you know you're bestfriends.

Larry Shea (04:45):
You know Trust me we know how that feels as well.

Dave Crafa (04:47):
Yeah, I bet Exactly.

Larry Shea (04:53):
But yeah, it was.
You know I had worked forSteely Dan and when that
facility closed, you know Davewas really looking to take a
step, you know, become moreprofessional, become more hey,
what are the big studios do thatkind of thing.
So I was able to, you know, puta mark on it for a couple of
years and kind of come up withsome brand new processes and

(05:14):
things that we made a lot ofmoney together.
We did really well and we kindof took that step and it was a
fun part of my career as well.
So let's talk about your careerjourney and the dream, though
let's start at the beginning.
Sure, let's bring you all theway back to young Dave Krafa,
however many years ago that is.
I'm not going to throw youunder the bus and give your age,

(05:35):
but tell me what the dream was.
What was the original dream?
Where did you grow up?
What was your childhood?

Dave Crafa (05:41):
like childhood well, I grew up in uh, in a suburb of
new york city.
I guess the music dream startedprobably in third grade when,
uh, my best friend brought hisguitar in for like show and tell
and, um, I had this crush, youknow, even in third grade.
You know, on this, on this girlright and of course I could

(06:05):
never, ever approach her.
And then my friend brought hisguitar in and played some song.
She came and talked to him andI was like what I've?

Tushar Saxena (06:16):
got to start playing guitar.

Dave Crafa (06:17):
This is like you know, power of music, yeah,
power of music, man, it wasamazing.
So I went home and told my momand dad I wanted to play guitar
and they're like okay, and theysigned me up for like classical
guitar lessons, like flamencoguitar.
I'm like, wait, not this kindof guitar.

Tushar Saxena (06:37):
That's not getting the girl.
No way that's not getting thegirl.

Dave Crafa (06:40):
No, well, it could like maybe now.
Well, I mean, you're veryskilled, you'd be very skilled.
So I was like I just got foiled.
But at some point I, you know,I was just you know the whole
electric guitar scene and I justI just fell in love with the
Gibson Les Paul.

(07:01):
That you know the, the shape ofit, the sound of it.
Gibson les paul, that you knowthe, the shape of it, the sound
of it.
By the time I got into likeseventh grade, uh, in middle
school, middle school is like atough time for sure, right, uh,
I felt pretty popular inelementary school, but middle
school was like a whole notherstory.
And, uh, I remember there wasthis, this, this guy.
He was in eighth grade and Iwas, uh, a year younger than him

(07:24):
.
His name is joshua christian,right, and this guy was like my
idol and, funny enough, he'sstill touring to this day.
But, uh, and he's like a guitarvirtuoso and he's the one that
really kind of started me onthat path.
I was like I think it was likeI I saw him in the gym, and you
know how the acoustics are inthe gym, you know, and he, he

(07:46):
knew some blues scales and hecan shred a little bit, and I
was just like, oh, my God,that's what I want to do.
Wow, you know, I became friendswith him and, uh, uh, you know,
the the guitar really, uh, kindof saved my ass in middle
school because I became prettypopular just because of it,

(08:09):
whereas, you know, prior to that, people were picking on me and
I was like having to you know,get into fights and you know,
and it's tough.
So you know that's a tough agefor everybody.
So that's a tough age foreverybody and I think music
really helped me get throughthat and find myself at a young

(08:30):
age.
So I always kind of knew that'swhat was going to go down and
at the same time that wastranspiring.
I had this very big interest inscience and rocketry and I
wanted to design my own rocketand you know I I had like
science kits all over my bedroom.

(08:52):
So there was, there was this,this synergy between art and
science from a very young ageand I I didn't, you know, I
thought I had to choose betweenone or the other.
But come to find out later onin life it all starts to make
sense for me where I've got boththose things happening right
now.

Larry Samuels (09:13):
Because the recording aspect and the
engineering aspect sort ofsatisfies that scientific aspect
of it.

Dave Crafa (09:22):
And you know, building a recording studio, uh,
and you know, I, I, I think theword recording studio is really
, uh, a really ultra generalizedterm because, you know, people
have their kind of uh idea or orimagery when they think of

(09:42):
recording studios.
But a recording studio is alaboratory.
That's what it is.
And you know you'reexperimenting with emotions and
you know sounds and you know,and you know that also gets
girls too.

Larry Samuels (09:59):
So that's cool so it's kind of got everything at
the theme here.

Dave Crafa (10:05):
Yeah, you know, of course, use the cool stuff,
right, right, the big studio Ialways kind of wanted to be an
astronaut to some you knowextent and you know, look, it's
kind of a very spaceship vibe inhere.
So always, so it kind ofscratches all the itches, you
know, know.
And then add sailing into thatand you know which is, pretty

(10:27):
much, you know, the closest youcan be to, as you know, being an
astronaut on Earth in terms of,like open ocean, like you know,
crossing thousands of miles ofopen sea.
You know that's pretty space,like For sure.

Larry Samuels (10:41):
So we know that you became a heck of a player.
So when did you I mean youbecame a pro?
I mean there are these storiesof you playing in recording
studios.
You almost went on tour, etc.
Etc.
So oh, yeah, yeah.
When did you start to get good?
How did you pursue that?
Were you playing in bands inhigh school, like like, when did

(11:02):
you begin to become a pro?
How did you do that?

Dave Crafa (11:07):
So I became more of an ear player because I wanted
to.
You know, I wanted to playsongs that I was listening to
and mostly that was like BlackSabbath and the Bee Gees, so
Interesting, it was weird.
Yeah, I was like a big Bee Geesfan and, funny enough, like I
was like one of the firstrecords I ever had was like the
Godspell, uh soundtrack yeahyeah, yeah, and you know, that's

(11:32):
like in the 70s and there wasthis one song that had a major
seventh chord in it and, uh, Ijust fell in love with the major
seventh chord.
I couldn't get enough of it,you know, like, uh, like, so you
know, I started writing littlesongs on my own with the, with
incorporating this major seventhchord that I could like play,
cause it was like, you know, youcan move it up the fretboard

(11:53):
and it would you know, youwouldn't have to change your
fingering or anything and itwould you know, it just had it
just resonated with me, thatcombination of intervals.
At the same time I was, youknow, I discovered the power
chord.
Oh my God, when you discoverthe power chord as a young, you
know, like 13 year old, and thedistortion box, you're like, oh

(12:16):
my God, I figured it out.
I can play Iron man you knowlike it's everything, every,
every song that you like does apower chord and you're like,
damn man, I'm like 75 there.
And then when you figure outthe blue scale and where to like
, oh, if I start the blue scalehere, like I'm actually a lead

(12:38):
guitarist now, you know like,like that, that nobody had
taught that to me, I I just kindof stumbled upon it.
And then you know, by talkingto other people, they're like oh
yeah, that's the blue scale andthis is like if you start here,
you do that.
So I just was like fascinatedby that whole experience and I
realized at some point I needsome formal training.

(13:01):
So I took lessons, but I wasmainly self-taught.
The formal training came alittle bit later and it came in
the form of committing to go toBerklee College of Music.

Larry Shea (13:15):
Also, you were a student over at NYU.
I was.
You were a student over at NYU.
Talk a little bit about yourtime at Berklee, because
obviously you probably wentthrough the classes about theory
, yeah, and then obviouslycomposing, etc.
Arranging all those aspects,yeah, or arranging all those
aspects of of music theory andof music composing like what was

(13:36):
, how was that?
What was that experience likefor you?
So, basically a self-taughtguitarist who took some classes,
but then when you actually saw,let's say, how the, how the
sausage is made, so to speak,yeah, you saw, when you saw that
portion of it, what did thatreally do to you as a, as a mad
scientist of music?
Did that kind of put thingstogether?

Dave Crafa (13:53):
uh no, it kind of like really deconstructed what
it was, that I, what, what I,what I wanted to do, and where A
lot of things were happening atthat point in time.
I think what was reallyimportant at that point was I
came into Berklee thinking I wasthe local guitar hero and

(14:17):
realizing that I was not evenclose to the talent, a pure
musical talent, that some ofthese players you know had and I
it was really.
It shook me up because I waslike oh, like wow, I have to

(14:37):
think in, like, in, in severaldifferent dimensions at the same
time, in terms of like playingover chord changes and different
you know scales and like,figuring it all out and then
making it original.
And, you know, practicing,practicing, practicing, and at
the same time, technology waspulling me in a direction, all

(15:00):
this new ways of creating music.
I I really was humble in a bigway, but I also, at the same
time, found my place, realizingthat, hey, I'm not going to be
the next Steve Vai and I knowwhat it takes to get there now

(15:23):
and understand that.
But there's something over herethat I want to explore and maybe
I can do some hybridization oftraditional music, playing with
my primary instrument, which wasguitar, guitar and somehow, uh,

(15:47):
you know incorporating, um, youknow, sequencing and the
technology that was emerging atthe time, uh, to to come up with
something that was my own, yeah, the idea of being able to
layer a beat by myself andcreate a song, like layering
rhythm track over top of melodyand, and you know, coming up
with a percussion track on adrum machine.
And like I really got into thatand I didn't have to be a

(16:08):
virtuoso at any of thoseinstruments to do it and the
technology allowed me to do itand uh, so I started moving in
that direction you know, this is, this is what the beatles were
doing at abbey road, right, theywere experimenting with music,
and technology and all thatstuff yeah um, just a brief
description of Berkeley, though,because a lot of people who
don't you know, aren't in themusic business or what have you,

(16:29):
don't know what it is.
Berkeley College of Music is amusic factory, essentially in
Boston, massachusetts, and theplayers who go through Berkeley,
you know they're the best ofthe best usually, and if you go
there, you don't graduatebecause you're so good, so good,
someone's gonna take you andpull you on the road so that you
can play music for the rest ofyour life, because it's just

(16:51):
yeah, you know it's not astandard four-year college.
These guys are the bestshredders in the world they
really are, and they go thereand form bands and get picked
off.
I mean it's, it's go with ozzyand whatever.
You know what I mean?
It's like one of those, I mean,and some of the best jazz
players in the world yeahabsolutely.
It's really an honor to bethere.
And then when you stand in theface of that type of talent,

(17:13):
you're just like oh boy, I gotto up my game.
I got to level up quickly.
How am I going to do it?
We used to call it berserklyRight.
Call it berserkly right.
I remember that crazy people um, but so, so that's cool.
So you're, you're, you're aplayer, but you're also now
mixing in all the technologicalaspects and getting the itch to

(17:34):
do that kind of stuff.
So how does berkeley end?
Where do you go next?
Well I know it was about a girl, because we've already
established, but yeah, isn'teverything.
My wife may be listening, but uhit's it's, it's the 80s, okay,
it's the 80s.
It doesn't matter to her, that'sright that's right but uh yeah.

(17:58):
So, uh, I entered berkeleybecause, uh, uh, you know I was
uh because I fell in love.
I was 18, and I was going tohead straight out to LA and
follow in the footsteps of myfriends who all got cool gigs
playing in different bands andwere touring musicians.
And back in the 80s there was aguitarist called Randy Rhodes

(18:21):
and I knew his dad and his dadwas trying to set me up in LA.
He kind of believed in me andthat felt really good and I was
gonna go out there and, you know, throw my hat in the ring, see
what happens.

Larry Shea (18:36):
Speaking of Ozzy, randy played for Ozzy Osbourne.

Dave Crafa (18:40):
What right oh yeah, what Right?
Oh yeah, some people don't knowthis.

Larry Samuels (18:43):
Oh yeah, yeah no no, randy, we have a diverse
audience.

Dave Crafa (18:48):
Right, right, yeah no, he did, he did.
He was Ozzy's first guitaristand you know he was, you know,
besides Edward Van Halen back inthe day, who was just like this
monster, you know player, whoyou know influenced so many
guitarists, you know, randy wasalso like that and I felt very

(19:14):
fortunate to, you know, haveRandy's dad kind of go to bat
for me and kind of make someconnections in LA.
She said well, you know you cando that, but why don't you?
You?
know, spend a year.
You know why don't you apply toBerkeley?
And I was like I'm not going toget in there.
So I applied and I got in and Iwas like, oh shit, now what do
I do?

(19:34):
So I, you learn how to shredRight.
So then I got nervous and, youknow, I started.
I enrolled in WesternConnecticut State University.
I didn't enroll as amatriculated student because I
had quit high school to play ina band.
As a matter of fact, a bandthat I had been playing with had

(19:56):
opened up for Metallica, likeback in the day of the Killer
Mall tour, which was nobody knewwho the hell?
Metallica was.
So I had seen and tasted thatwas like 81, maybe.
God yeah, so Don't give awayyour age.
Oh, why not?
That ship has sailed, I know.
So no.

(20:18):
So so she got me to apply thereand I got in, and then I, I
went to Western ConnecticutState University to brush up on
theory and kind of get ready,you know, as a pregame to go to
Berkeley, and at the same time Igot my GED.
Funny thing is, like I didn'thave to send my SATs which I

(20:39):
never took, and I mean I totallybackdoored the system to to,
you know, to get into college.
Um, you know, I, I w I wouldn'tsay like I, you know, scam my
way in, but like I just neverthought that I was going to go
cause I thought I would be onthe road.
So, you know, my plans changedbecause I wanted to keep in

(21:05):
close proximity with, you know,with my girlfriend at the time,
and it all seemed to work outand it flowed.
It flowed in a direction thatyou know.
I just rode this wave.

Larry Shea (21:20):
So how long was your time then at Berkeley in
Massachusetts, a couple of yearsFor you?
Yeah, so you didn't inMassachusetts.

Dave Crafa (21:23):
A couple years For you.

Larry Shea (21:24):
Yeah, so you didn't spend your quote unquote.
Four years at Berkeley, no, no,when did you?
What year then did you makeyour move over to NYU?

Dave Crafa (21:34):
Well, I broke up with the girl in.
I think it was 1980.

Larry Shea (21:40):
This is a running thing.

Dave Crafa (21:42):
It is.
Oh yeah, no, when I broke upwith her actually she broke up
with me I lost my mojo.
Man, I was lost.
I quit Berklee.
Wow, I was like I can't doanything.
I was really pretty messed upand lost.
I had not made the transitionto the hybrid Dave computer

(22:10):
guitar Dave guy yet.
I was just like I need to takesome time off.
And so I did.
I went home, I dropped out, Iwent home, I was out, I went
home.
I was depressed and coming backfrom Berkeley, I'm like I suck,

(22:33):
I'm not really good at myinstrument and I had a moment
where I was just laterallydrifting.
Funny enough, some of theclasses that I took at Berkeley
like my liberal arts classes Ireally enjoyed the professors
and I was learning things that Ihadn't learned before that, you

(22:54):
know, in high school, seemed tobe out of reach and I was
actually doing well in a lot ofmy courses really well of my
courses, really well.
And when I went back, when Iquit Berkeley, I enrolled at
UConn for a few semesters and Iwas taking philosophy classes

(23:17):
and I was taking mathematics andI really enjoyed it and I was
actually like, because it hadnever been something I felt that
I was good at.
And all of a sudden I was goodat it and I was getting it
because I had professors thatcared.
So that was my move to NYU,thought that I would ever be

(23:41):
part of which was, you know,being part of a university, you
know, level program, you know Ialways thought, well, those are
different people, you know, youknow, and I was, I was more blue
, collar and and maybe you knowcollar and, um, and maybe you

(24:10):
know, maybe they looked down onme, you know.
So, uh, after taking a couple ofyears off, um, you know,
between Berkeley and NYU, Istarted to think that I I wanted
to go back to school.
I wanted to, I wanted to dosomething now that was very, uh,
not not music orientated.
I wanted to really go touniversity and study like an
engineering program this is thescience part coming back Right
and so I applied to severaldifferent colleges and

(24:37):
universities throughout the US.
I wanted to be on the WestCoast, so I was kind of holding
out to go to Berkeley, the UC.

Larry Shea (24:45):
The other one, berkeley, the one with the Y,
the other one it's spelledtotally different.
Yeah, exactly.
Berkeley right.

Dave Crafa (24:51):
And you know.
I went out there and you know,and I also applied to NYU and
all the other you know schoolsthat had, like you know,
university of Miami.
They had like an engineeringdegree coupled with a music
technology degree.

Larry Shea (25:07):
Great program.

Dave Crafa (25:08):
Yeah exactly, my dad was like no, you can't go to
that, it's a party school.
I'm like, but it's an E degreeman.

Larry Shea (25:19):
It's like number one or two in the country for sound
recording I know.

Dave Crafa (25:23):
So that was kind of one of my first choices.
But the thing was, nyu offeredme some money to go and I was
like, no, I'm not going to be inNew York, I've grown up here.
It was like I think this waslike 89, 90.
It was still kind of like anarmpit.
I just wanted to see someplaceelse and and start my future

(25:46):
some somewhere else and, uh,anyway, decided to go to nyu, uh
to to just visit for a weekendwith some friends that were here
.
It was a beautiful fall weekend.
I just kind of fell in lovewith the place and I thought to
myself why am I stiff armingthis whole thing?
And why?
am I holding back wheneverything is telling me to come

(26:11):
here?
And I decided to go.
And that's really one of thebiggest things that I learned
was, sometimes you have to gowith the flow.
It's not selling out, it'sactually following your destiny.
And I mean, everything fellinto place after I made that

(26:31):
decision and I didn't want to go.
And then I realized, once Isuccumbed to the whole, all
right, I'll do it.
And it wasn't like all right,I'll do it.
It's like my 10th choice ofwhere I want to be.
But when I said it, I meant it.
I was like I realized I'msupposed to be here and I'm just

(26:53):
going to roll with it.
And when I did that andcommitted to where I was and
what resources were around me,everything started to come into
focus and fast forward.

Larry Samuels (27:05):
35 years, you're still here.

Larry Shea (27:07):
No wrong choices, right yeah.

Dave Crafa (27:10):
No wrong choices.
So that was a big epiphanyreally for me to realize like,
oh, sometimes you can justactually go with the flow,
because I was taught like, asyou're all you know, I don't
know, I can't speak foreverybody.
You're taught to, like, makethe tough choices and you know,
don't, don't.

(27:30):
Uh, take the easy path, andsometimes the easy path is where
you're supposed to go yeah, youknow, yeah, like and uh, I
realized that.
And uh, yeah, so that's, that'show n started.

Tushar Saxena (27:43):
So you get there and you've come to New York and
you're thinking about philosophy, You're thinking about
engineering, you have all theseother things on your mind,
that's right.
But you know, we know parts ofyour story.
I mean, somehow you get pulledback into music.
Somehow a recording studiostarts to pop up in your dorm

(28:07):
room.
How do you shift gears and howdo you start to pursue music
again?

Dave Crafa (28:13):
Well, not to get back into Berklee, but before
Berklee I had a bunch ofrecording equipment.
Yeah, and my roommate atBerklee also had a bunch of
recording equipment.
So when I left Berklee I had abunch of recording equipment.
So, you know, when I leftBerkeley I had a bunch of
recording equipment.
By the time I uh, you knowmoved to NYU, you know I had

(28:34):
like a full studio.
Yeah, I had a pretty cool studiowow 16 track half inch tape
machine in the dorm room with,like you know, my Macintosh and
I had like a Ensoniq Miragesampler and you know a bunch of
stuff all the stuff.
Yeah and uh, you know I wasprogramming stuff on digital
performer and, uh, you know, andthe guitar.

(28:58):
It was really weird because,like in the 90s in New York, you
know, hip hop was just startingto really hit hard and you know
, club music, house music,techno, like all these things
were happening that I was justlike, why do I do?
Like I don't know?
You know, and and I, you know,being being generation X, as you

(29:21):
know, larry, we were exposed toa lot, a lot of different
genres of music and, and I thinkthat's our strength as
generation X, is because therewas a, there was a a renaissance
of music in the 80s, where, youknow, you're listening to
Fishbone and you're listening to, you know, bad Brains and you

(29:44):
know Minor Threat and Nine InchNails and you know all these
different.
You know, and also jazz andalso, like you know, I was
listening to Alan Hallsworth andJohn Schofield and, like you
know, and also jazz, and also,like you know, I was listening
to Alan Hallsworth and JohnSchofield and, like you know, a
lot of influences, the cure, youknow like there was so many
things going on back then.

(30:04):
Yeah, it's true, it was anamazing moment, and that that's
when alternative music wasreally kind of born.
You know, college radio waslike pushing out all these crazy
red hot chili peppers and youknow all these people were
broken on like rem yeah on oncollege radio.
So all that was happening atthat same time.
And here I am in new york andit's just like my dorm mate

(30:29):
wants to make techno music andI'm like okay you know, and
he takes me to like thelimelight in the palladium on
like techno.
I'm like holy crap, this is outof control and it's a totally
different culture.
And you know, these are likewild clubs oh my god, in new
york city, yeah, the wild right.

Larry Shea (30:51):
Yeah, the wildest club.

Dave Crafa (30:52):
Yeah, especially back then, the wildest clubs at
the tunnel and uh, yeah, youknow, uh, vinyl and save the
robots and all these freakingweird clubs.
But, um, anyway, I like it was,you know, and it was like, uh,
my my first real immersion in,like the gay culture of house
and dance and you know it was.

(31:13):
It was pretty wild and, uh, Ifelt like I was on a different
planet.
I didn't quite know how to whatto make of all this.
But, um, funny thing was is thatmy, my doorman and I put
together a record label that, uh, uh, we had the idea of
approaching some djs and in oneof the main clubs, because, uh,

(31:34):
he, he was more involved in theclub scene than I was and I was
kind of, you know, like he wasmy tour guide, and, uh, we
decided to approach some djs andsay, hey, we'll make you this
cool techno track.
And, uh, because you don't havea record out, and djs were
starting to like, you know this,this is the era where Madonna

(31:55):
was hiring DJs to produce herrecord and DJs are becoming like
rock stars.
So we figured we'd make arecord for these guys and kind
of ride their coattails.
And it worked to a certainextent, but not the way, we
thought we had an idea, you know, and it was kind of a cool idea

(32:16):
and it got us started, it putus on a path, which is because
they already had a name they'rein name.
Yeah, they were they were clubkids and you know, yeah, that
makes sense and, um, you know, Iit.
First of all, you have to putyourself on a path.
Whether you know the goal isviable or not, it doesn't matter
it, just you get on a path andthe path leads you to other

(32:39):
opportunities that you don'tnecessarily you can't see from
where you're at at that moment.
So we put ourselves on a path.
Uh, these guys were reallysuper excited about the record.
They started putting money intoit that we never thought you
know to do and they were soexcited they took vocal lessons

(33:02):
and they hired like they had alot of money.
So they hired, like otherproducers, to help produce the
record.
And it was my first time I wentto an SSL studio and I was like
damn, like wow, I mean wetotally lost control of the
creative process of the record.
But at the same time I was putin contact with people that I

(33:26):
would never have been put it,you know, would never have ended
up with before.
Right, and they appreciated myprogramming.
So other DJs that were bigstarted hiring me as a
ghostwriter to make tracks forthem and that started this crazy
, different lifestyle and careerthat I never expected.

(33:50):
You know, and in career, that Inever expected and and and so.

Tushar Saxena (33:55):
so let's put a pin in that for a second.
So so that one experience kindof leads to what them telling a
friend like how does the ballget rolling before you move into
anything let's say commercially?

Dave Crafa (34:09):
Well, you, you, you don't know it's going to happen
that way and, um you know itstarts with a gig, like someone
says, hey, can you help me dothis?

Tushar Saxena (34:19):
So it's totally organic.
Oh, it's totally organic.

Dave Crafa (34:21):
Yeah, you do it, and then you're like, okay, well,
you know, I got paid.
You know a certain amount ofmoney.
It's not that much, but like,that's cool, it's a little side,
hustle side money.

Tushar Saxena (34:34):
Especially in college.

Dave Crafa (34:36):
Yeah, that's cool.
It's a little side hustle, sidemoney, and then all of a sudden
, yeah, and then another gigpops up and you're like, oh yeah
, I'll do that Right.
And then you start stringingthem together, but you never
really think like, oh well, thisis going to be something.

Larry Samuels (34:45):
Lo and behold, I was going to say but when did
you Right, exactly Right.

Dave Crafa (34:51):
Well, after you know , it's funny Cause, like you
know, I knew that I was going tobe graduating soon and I'll be
kind of on my own.
I mean, my, my parents did help, but I did also do a lot of it
myself, you know, with withobtaining, you know, money from
from NYU and scholarships andthings like that.

(35:13):
But you know they don't justgive scholarships out.
You have to go find them.
And was this something Ilearned too?
It's not like, you know,someone's going to just give you
an award out of nowhere.
You have to make yourself knownand you have to, like, go, you
know, knock on doors of the, youknow of the schools within the

(35:34):
college and be like, hey, I'mgoing to have to drop out if I
don't get X, y, z money.

Larry Shea (35:39):
It's funny how like they're like well, we'll get
back to you.

Dave Crafa (35:42):
And then they do.
And you know, you don't geteverything asked for, but you
get something.

Tushar Saxena (35:47):
And let me ask you this, dave During your time
where you're having all thesegigs taking place in college,
yeah Was there ever a pointwhere the school portion of the
academic portion of it becamesecondary and you found yourself
working more, working more, uh,in making music?

Dave Crafa (36:04):
than you actually did working in class, absolutely
, absolutely, um but.
But so here's another exampleof going with the flow.
So when I decided to go back toschool and when I decided to go
to nyu, which is a, you know,reputable college, and I decided
to go hard, I decided to be.

(36:25):
I wanted to be an electricalengineer.
With you know, I wanted todesign musical equipment or
something I I wanted to have.
I was like full science.
At this point, music wasimportant, but I wanted to.
I wanted to find some hybrid.
I like like the University ofMiami, and it was.
It was hard to find that here atNYU, but, you know, I gave it

(36:50):
my best shot.
I was taking, like I was takingall these different courses,
like like all these math coursesthat were leading up to, like
you know, there wereprerequisites for ee degree and
I was like going all semestersand I I just wanted to catch up.
So I was doing like doublesummer semesters and I burnt out

(37:11):
and there was no way I wasgoing to be able to do what we
were just talking about, likeworking with other potential
clients doing that work lifeRight.
And, and it was, I was happy Iwas actually passing courses um,
you know, with bees and youknow yeah, with bees, but that

(37:37):
to me was like amazing, like I'min like this, you know this,
this, you know calculus coursethat there's like 400 people in
an auditorium.
I'm like how?

Tushar Saxena (37:45):
am I gonna do this?

Dave Crafa (37:46):
you know, I don't never want to go back to that,
but the no, the thing is, uh, Idid it and I I was like, but at
one point I had to let all thatgo because I wanted to get the
major and the science degree.
But at some point again I letit go and I went with the flow

(38:07):
and I decided to.
I went into computer scienceand I decided not to major in it
.
I decided to minor in it.
But you did finish, you did getin it.
I decided to minor in it.

Larry Samuels (38:16):
But you did finish, you did get your degree.

Dave Crafa (38:20):
I did.
But the bottom line is I letall of that extra course load go
so that I could pursue thesetypes of gigs.
And when I did that it openedup a ton of time and cause cause
.
You know, the music courses atNYU and the tech music tech

(38:43):
courses were, they were kind ofeasy for me, so I didn't have to
spend too much time, so I couldactually really, you know,
drill down into, like my ownclientele at the time.

Larry Samuels (38:53):
So that's, that's what happened, that's amazing,
and so, at this point, you'regetting busy.
You're building a reputation,you're building a network.
You've got more work than youcan handle.
When does the cutting room?
I mean was there anintermediate step, like like,
when does the cutting room cometo life and what was that
progression?

Dave Crafa (39:15):
Okay, so it's 1993, right, I've now moved out of
this railroad flat on Bleeckerand Thompson, right that I had,
like, my little studio set upand I'm now at 25th Street, 328

(39:35):
East 25th, between first andsecond, and that's where it blew
up.
It was kind of a commercialspace but you could live there
and it was 900 bucks a month,which I thought I would never be
able to afford.
But I did it and, um, I couldmake all the noise in the world,
no one would complain, and Iput together a studio there.

(40:02):
I've got to say this ispre-internet, and the internet
for us back then was the villagevoice.
The village voice was, you know, if you were looking for an
apartment, you'd look there.

Tushar Saxena (40:19):
If you for a roommate, you'd look there
anything anything, everything,anything if

Dave Crafa (40:22):
you want to know where to go, what whose bands
were playing.
Everything right, everythingthat was the pulse of new york
city and in the back of theclassifieds were.
It was a studio section andeverybody, including the hit
factory was was advertising backthere.
If you can imagine that?

Tushar Saxena (40:43):
um, of course, the hit factory stats were
really nice and then the rest ofus were like you know, we have
factory, just so people know isa high level studio.
Michael, michael Jackson, bruceSpringsteen, john Lennon,
michael Jackson.

Dave Crafa (40:57):
Yeah, like God God.

Larry Shea (41:01):
He records there, todd records there.

Dave Crafa (41:04):
It's funny because Troy became a friend later on
and a mentor to me, which Inever I just never saw myself in
the company of these guys thatare legends.

Tushar Saxena (41:17):
You're in that world, Dave.

Dave Crafa (41:19):
I don't know if I'm Let me jump in.
I don't know if I'm Let me jumpin.

Larry Shea (41:22):
So one of the things I always admired about you is,
whatever money you made, youwould dump it right back into
the studio.
Everything just kind of getturned around.
What an idiot.

Dave Crafa (41:34):
No, it's true because, because this is a
lifestyle, it's a passion, it isadmirable.

Larry Shea (41:38):
You would buy new gear.
You would buy new whatever youkept pouring, even in those
early days, dave, you like.

Dave Crafa (41:45):
I just know from knowing you that you, just you
know it was, because it's justlike you're watching the dream
evolve and, um, what's betterthan that?
You know, like, like I don'treally know what I would spend

(42:06):
it on other than trying to makesomething even cooler you know
like I can make you a list of ofthings.

Larry Shea (42:13):
Well, yeah, I listen .

Dave Crafa (42:14):
I I bought a sailboat and then I bought
another one and then I boughtanother one, so I get it.
I can make you a list of thingsputting together like
mechanisms that can can generatetheir own uh existence you know
in in terms of financialexistence.

(42:40):
Uh, that to me, you know, is alife hack, like if we can put
together a place that we can allrealize our dreams in, you know
, like this laboratory that isthe cutting room.
Why not put more?
This is a hobby gone insane.

Larry Shea (43:00):
Yeah, but that's your brilliance of
sustainability, dave, is that?
That's how you've always beenable to make these things work
right?
You keep putting profit backinto the product to make it
better, to let it support itselfand, like you said, you did
that with the boat as well.

Dave Crafa (43:15):
But I want to stay on the path here.
It's a path Right of course, ofcourse.

Tushar Saxena (43:19):
So you're having, you're in the apartment.
You have a studio, essentiallybuilt.
I mean, I don't know if you'recalling it the cutting room yet
at this point, but how do you go?
From there.
You are calling it cutting room.

Dave Crafa (43:58):
Well, no, you are calling it Cutting Room generic
name in a lot of ways.
Uh, you know, it's it'sfortunate that we became the
owners of that kind of likerealm in in new york city, but
uh, you know, uh, I'm not surehow we actually.
Well, I actually came to thatpoint, but it was kind of like I
had a bunch of names and thenfinally it was like I gotta just
pick one, you know, because I,I was advertising and I was just

(44:19):
like you know, like you know, II like the idea of the playroom
, but that was already takenright
uh, because you know, myhappiest moments as a kid was in
my playroom, uh, so I I triedto do something similar, but you
, you know, uh, uh.
So the cutting room it was.
And then, uh, the funny thingabout the village voice was

(44:41):
those ads.
You know all the smallerstudios, you know the mom and
pop studios, like baby monsterand like all these other studios
.
Back in the day they were allin there, but uh, yep, if you
wanted to be first you had toput like number one or a, so
everything had to be like a1,the cutting room, the a1 like

(45:03):
a1111111 like there was a gamewe do it now with algorithms.
It's the same right.
Right, it's the thing.
It was just so funny back then.
But look that, put us on the map.
Those stupid ads that were like, I don't know, 20 bucks a week

(45:24):
or whatever.
I mean it got a ton of callsand there was a lot of
ridiculously stupid projectsthat I did and you know.
But they, you, you know allowedme to buy another sampler or
another piece of gear, anotherprocessor, upgrade my computer.
You know from what you did manfrom from 10 megahertz to 20

(45:46):
megahertz?

Larry Shea (45:48):
so those early days, early days, right, megahertz,
right, yeah.
So those early days for youwhen you, when you have the, the
initial start of the of thecutting room, your work day, I
would have to assume, was not anine to five gig even if you
tried to have it be that way,what was?
What are the early days of thatcareer like for you?

Dave Crafa (46:12):
you know, I, I, I did, I did the lion's share of
the work and I was working witha lot of uh djs who are, you
know, night owls, so they wouldyou know, they'd get up at like
5 pm or6 pm and have breakfast.
And then you know, uh 5 pm andhave breakfast right.

Larry Shea (46:30):
I mean, this is like when you say these are club
kids man you, you know they werepaying the bills and they had
money to do that.

Dave Crafa (46:40):
And you know, that was the era back then of these
super clubs and these DJs allwanted to have like the hottest
you know mixes.
And I was there to help them dothat and that meant I worked
from, you know, 9 pm to 9 am andyou know, I was younger back

(47:03):
then, I think I was still in my25, so I could handle that.
But eventually I had to bringpeople in to help me.
So that's when the studiostarted taking some structure,
where I, you know, funny enough,I ran into a friend of mine who

(47:25):
I work with at Berkeley inBoston and hired him as an
engineer, uh, trained up anotherengineer to, to you know, so
that I could take some of themore higher profile gigs and not
have to work with, like, I mean, larry, you know, you know, the
the professional world is notalways professional.

(47:47):
You know, there's no like.
We don't turn down anybody.
Like, if they have money tocome into the studio, you can
come but, like you know, theycould be completely insane and
they are sometimes and you'relike, all right, well, we'll try
to make the best of it.

Tushar Saxena (48:02):
It's a childlike business in that regard.
Right, these are all just bigkids basically.

Dave Crafa (48:06):
Yeah.

Tushar Saxena (48:06):
Like playing with their toys and, yeah, it's a
whole other world.

Dave Crafa (48:10):
But the ones who are never going to actually get
anywhere you still have to workwith.
And yeah, so, yeah, exactly so.

Larry Shea (48:22):
So, dave, just knowing your story, I know that
one of the pivotal things thathappened there was something
that was totally innocent at thetime, I guess some mike mangini
, who's uh, became a greatclient of yours and really
brought a lot of work to CuttingRoom.

Dave Crafa (48:37):
Absolutely.

Larry Shea (48:37):
He wanted to make a transfer, a tape transfer.
Is that how this began?

Dave Crafa (48:41):
Yeah Well, you know I had a two-inch tape machine
there which was like you know,if you wanted to get more work
and get more professional work,you needed to have a two inch
machine which allowed folks totake their their uh tapes from,
you know, sony music or biggerstudios.

Larry Shea (49:00):
Any other studio really?

Dave Crafa (49:02):
Yeah, Any other well , any other studio that was, you
know, worth their salt.
Uh, you know, in theprofessional, uh, you know,
realm would would have a twoinch machine.
So I put money into buying atwo inch machine and of course I
had the 16 track half inchmachine which I put money into,
buying a two inch machine, andof course I had the 16 track
half inch machine which wasthere from, you know, back in
the day and uh, well, uh, thoseformats were listed on my

(49:25):
village voice ad and uh, Mikesaw it, mike Mangini saw it and
uh, he had a bunch of stuff hewanted to transfer from 16 track
to 2-inch.
And you know, Mike came overfor a tape transfer and we hit
it off.
Mike came through and he said,kind of like what a lot of
people say you know I'm going tobring a new place to work.

(49:49):
You know I need a second home,blah, blah, blah.
And you know, the most importantthing is like you could be
skeptical about that and and andnegative, like, yeah, sure,
whatever, everyone says this.
But you got to stay open.
It's really important to stayopen and to take chances.
And if I didn't take the chancewith Mike and he didn't take a

(50:13):
chance with with me, I wouldhave never met you.
That's probably true.
You know what I'm saying.
So, uh, again, I can't stressthe fact of staying open is is
really, really important becausethere's a lot to close up over.
You know, everyone gets burnedand this and that, but you gotta

(50:35):
figure out a way to stay open.
And he made it easy because hechecked in on me and he wanted
to see what was going on and youknow when I would look at
potential properties to.
You know, move, of course,through the village voice.

(50:55):
Because, that was what you did.
That's right.
You know, we would go and lookat different places together and
I don't know why he was hangingout with me or he never asked
to like be business partners orlike, but he was interested in
seeing what would happen fromall of this.
He kept in touch while I foundthe place on, well, 678 Broadway

(51:21):
.
Yeah, I guess.
Yeah, I mean I had some NYUcolleagues that I was working
with and you know we didn't havemuch money.
I mean, we maybe had like 10 or15,000 saved up.
We weren't really planning onbuilding a major recording

(51:43):
studio ever.
You know, it was just going tobe a project studio and you know
, just to kind of flash forwarda little bit, I think I was
making like $45,000, $50,000 atlike my little space and I
thought, oh my God, this isamazing.

(52:03):
And the next year we weremaking $450,000.
Yeah, wow, and that's what Mikebrought to the table.
Yeah, and I mean it was.

Larry Shea (52:16):
So let's kind of define, like what Mike you know
did I mean.
So Mike is a producer, yeah,and you know Mike ended up
bringing clients when I workedthere.
You know which is.
You know mike ended up bringingclients when I worked there,
you know which is.
You know, a little after thatparticular version of the
cutting room opened and joanosborne and bruce hornsby and
like all these major artistshe's bringing in david burn,

(52:38):
david burn to produce theirrecords.
So you know, it just goes toshow you how a partnership with
somebody like that and it wasn'teven a partnership, it was just
an understanding hey, I'llbring you some work and I'll
bring you more work, and youdeveloped a relationship, a
working relationship.
That was amazing.

Dave Crafa (52:55):
Really benefited both of you throughout the years
.
Yeah, no doubt, no doubt, andwe certainly had our differences
at times.

Larry Shea (53:02):
Oh yes, oh yes, you did.
We we certainly had ourdifferences at times.
Oh yes, oh yes, you did.

Dave Crafa (53:08):
We won't get into some of those stories?

Larry Shea (53:10):
No, no, no, no but they're awesome.

Dave Crafa (53:11):
They are awesome.
Mike and I are still friendsand I hope to see him soon.
But the thing is that it couldhappen for anybody, as long as
you stay open to it, and youjust don't know how the future
is going to unfold unless you'reopen to it.

(53:31):
And I keep saying that, butlike it's really important.

Larry Shea (53:35):
But you literally built the place from Home.
Depot runs and no work permitand like you, just like you just
.

Dave Crafa (53:47):
Well, because you made it, I said I, I still do
that.
I was actually at home depotearlier today like flooring for
like a certain room.

Larry Shea (54:00):
All right, we got so much more to cover here.

Dave Crafa (54:02):
Yeah, I know, I know .

Larry Shea (54:03):
So 97 is when you and I first crossed paths.
That's right.
I was working River Sound.
As I said, steely Dan and I hadclosed and I was working for
the Toy Specialists, which is anaudio rental company, and I
remember Eric Walters shout outto Eric Walters was the driver,
and so you were rentingequipment and he would be the

(54:24):
driver that would run all overNew York City and bring these
pieces of rental equipment.
And he came back to the shop andI was a tech, I was checking
gear in and out, making sureeverything worked, all that kind
of stuff, and he's like hey, Ijust talked to this guy who
needs a studio manager and Igave him your name and I'm like,
right, good, your name.

(54:50):
And I'm like, right, good job.
And we had lunch and we hit itoff and I remember you saying to
me come in for a week and justtake notes, just tell us what
we're doing wrong, and thenwe'll have a discussion at the
end of the week and we'll gofrom there and um, right, it was
it was the beginning of abeautiful relationship for three
and a half it.

Dave Crafa (55:03):
It really was.
Yeah, it really was yeah.
Look, you keep saying three anda half.
I'm going to say it's three anda half.
In my mind it's like five toten years.
It's three and a half.
Well, because we, dude, Ibrought on a lot of people Billy
Donahue, and I brought in a lotof people that I it was so much
stuff and that look, that isreally the most important part,

(55:26):
because, like a studio managerwho creates a culture at the
studio, there's just no betterway to make everything work.

Larry Shea (55:46):
You've always said to me the most important thing
is the team.
Right, right like who you havethere is more important than the
equipment.

Dave Crafa (55:50):
Yeah, anything else.
We used to have our uh, ourstaff meetings up on the roof
with the barbecue.
It was that.
That was the kind of stuff that.
But dave, you were the coolboss.

Larry Shea (55:59):
You took us skiing and you took us you know we
would go to Bill's gamestogether at Tailgate.

Dave Crafa (56:05):
Oh dude, so we were friends.
You made me buy Yankees tickets.

Larry Shea (56:09):
That's right, yankees tickets, you name it.

Dave Crafa (56:12):
Yankees tickets, like the season tickets for the
Friday Pass, which culminated inlike two World Series that I
got to see thanks to you.
I mean, it's a lifestyle.

Larry Shea (56:24):
Let me talk about that lifestyle a little bit so,
while I'm manager of the cuttingroom.
First thing Dave did is hand mean open invoice list right, all
the people who haven't paid him.
Oh, jeez.
So I have to attack this list.

Dave Crafa (56:38):
Receivables man.

Larry Shea (56:39):
The receivables it was a lot of young rappers
coming in and paying $1,000 in$5 bills.
There was a lot of that goingon, even $1 bills.
Even $1 bills.
There was a lot of you know 4 inthe morning phone calls of you
know so-and-so wants to taketheir tapes and I'm like, by no
means are you to give up thosetapes, right oh?

(57:01):
my God.
And if I say there's a guninvolved let them take the tapes
you know,so there was a lot of that how
can I package?

Dave Crafa (57:09):
that for you so managing a recording studio, was
it hard enough?
Owner, you take that stress onon a different level, but we
were able to take steps and kindof develop the business.
I think in a way that it wasn'tprobably.
We started renting equipment toclients.
We started making money in away that it wasn't private we
started renting equipment toclients.
We started making money in otherways that were more important.
We really made a bunch of moneyand that was awesome and we had

(57:31):
a lot of fun doing it, we did,and then it ended.

Tushar Saxena (57:34):
Terribly that really.

Dave Crafa (57:36):
Well, you know, because of a girl.

Larry Shea (57:37):
Oh Jesus, Always there's a theme here.

Dave Crafa (57:40):
Because I decided to date the intern
Because I decided to date theintern.

Larry Samuels (57:43):
That's right.
Let's just put it out there,that's right, you know so you
know, as the outsider, no oneelse was interested in me.
What could I do as the outsiderin this conversation who has
not worked in a recording studio?
You know, I'm curious aboutwhat goes on during a great

(58:07):
session.
I guess we could talk about abad session also, but let's
focus on the positive.

Dave Crafa (58:12):
Like you've had, so many legends come through and so
many great artists Can youdescribe a like a moment, a
session, a highlight from yourjourney that just really stood
out to you.
I'd have to say the Imanisessions.

(58:32):
You know Imani Coppola was aartist that was signed to Sony
and through Mike Mangini wasproducing it and you know Mike
was very gracious with you, knowyour involvement in any session
.
He wanted me to be his engineer, assistant producer for a lot

(58:54):
of the sessions.
But I was just trying to get ahandle on being like a.
All of a sudden, like I said,we went from $ grand to 450,000
and I'm trying to wrap my headaround that and figure out how
to.
There's a lot ofresponsibilities that come with
that type of like influx ofbusiness and we couldn't even

(59:19):
fucking order paperclips andknow who where they were being.
It was just, it was hard.
So there was a moment whereMike said to me I want you to be
the music director of AmaniCoppola and take her on tour

(59:39):
with like Jamiroquai, and I wasjust like oh, my dream is coming
back.
I can actually be a touringmusician that could do this.
But that's how I met Larry,because I couldn't run a studio

(01:00:00):
and do that and do that.
So you know, larry came in, youknow under those pretenses and
you know, just Blaze was workingthere.
We had a crazy crew man.
Yeah, it was fun we did.
I always felt like the studiowas a place that was like a

(01:00:22):
magnet that attractedopportunities for the staff.
You know, like not just for mebut for everybody, and including
you, larry.
You know like, you know,through through I think you know
, meeting Jake, and you know,like, like these opportunities
you know were just not only forme, you know take it a step

(01:00:45):
further.

Larry Shea (01:00:46):
Right?
I'm not working at Sirius XM ifI'm not working at cutting room
, because I never meet Jake JakeClans, who ends up being the
reason I moved to Sirius XM.
So right.
Yeah, there's a lot of dreamsthat are made there and things
that happen.
I want to talk about yoursustainability, though, dave,
because, dave, because.
I already talked about how youkept pouring money back into the

(01:01:07):
business.
You decided to buy the SSLagainst my better judgment and I
made that mistake.
You're like I want to buy thishuge, expensive console and I'm
like don't do that.
And you didn't listen to me andit was the smartest thing you
ever did, so good for you.

Dave Crafa (01:01:23):
I don't know man Good for you.

Larry Shea (01:01:25):
That was a lot of money, dude.
But the pivot I want to talkabout your art of the pivot.
Like, even during COVID, likeyou opened it up for teaching
purposes.
You know you did things.

Dave Crafa (01:01:37):
Yeah, not during COVID, but the teaching thing
was happening during, like, theimplosion of the industry of
commercial recording.
So necessity is the mother ofall invention, yeah, you know.
And uh, uh, at some point in in2006 or 7, you know, I had been

(01:01:57):
listening to a lot of onlineradio, uh, and mostly, uh, the
station that I really love wasKXP, out of Seattle, and at a
certain point in time I had achance to really help them out
and I did a lot of things probono.
And what ended up happeningfrom that pro bono kind of
relationship?

(01:02:18):
Because at that point I waslike, well, you know, if it's
all going to hell, I'm justgoing to start doing things I
like to do.
Yeah, and because of that, youknow, it launched us in a
different direction and got us abunch of new clientele that I

(01:02:40):
didn't really realize that wereavailable to us.
So, you know, smart move.

Larry Shea (01:02:48):
It was a smart move on your part.

Dave Crafa (01:02:51):
I really can't say, like I planned it out, it was
just a gut feeling and it waslike I want to do this because
it's cool.
Yeah, when you know everythingis looking, you know, not great
sometimes it's really good to beable to do something that you

(01:03:13):
love to do, like a passionproject that can spur you know
all kinds of good things thatyou can manifest, things that
you don't realize that are there, that you can manifest things
that you don't realize that arethere.

Larry Shea (01:03:25):
So you alluded to it a minute ago.
The implosion of basically theentire commercial recording
industry because home studiosbecame the norm.

Dave Crafa (01:03:34):
Everybody could do what they needed to do, and it
was really only high-end artiststhat started using commercial
recording studios in a lot ofways.
So not only have you been ableto keep your head above water,
but you've really thrived right,so you've been able to open a
second space.
Just talk about all the toughdecisions that you had to make

(01:03:55):
along the way to thrive in abusiness that was really closing
when I started in the industryand when you were there, the
recorded media was the industryyou know.
And when, when you were there,uh, the recorded you know media
was the industry that wasthriving.
Yeah Right, I mean the, theindustry made his money on

(01:04:22):
recorded media and that all fellapart.
You know, in, uh, in the aughtsand um, you know, piracy became
rampant and there was reallynobody taking the lead and we
just had to figure it out.
I mean, not me figuring it out,but the industry had to figure
out where it was going, and thatwas really dependent on
bandwidth, was really dependenton bandwidth.

(01:04:44):
Um, you know, I knew, as soonas bandwidth became, uh, you
know, much faster, thedistribution model would change.
And, um, you know, we, webought a place in the old tower
records building and, uh, youknow, we did that because, you

(01:05:06):
know, we had a 11 year lease inthe old place and I felt, like,
you know, it was important forus to be able to uh own the
property where the business was,because otherwise we we'd
always be at the mercy of thelandlords.

(01:05:26):
You know, because when we firststarted the lease at 678
Broadway, it was like $3,000 amonth and it was like a 4,500
square foot space.
It was insane.
And by the time the lease wasover it was like $20,000 a month
.
So we didn't pay that.
But if we wanted to renew,that's what we would have paid

(01:05:49):
Because you know there was asuper renaissance in the area
you know of NoHo.
I don't even think they calledit NoHo back then, like NoHo was
coined during the 90s and 2000sTo shoot real estate up through
the.
Right, and it did 2000s to shootreal estate up through the

(01:06:11):
right, and it did so.
Uh, so by the time we were, youknow, done with our lease, you
know, I had saved up quite a bitof coin as a deposit and the
idea was to be able to uh buy aplace and make a long story
short, we settled on the, the,the silk building, which is the
old tower records flagship, and,uh, we built out at at the time

(01:06:34):
, uh, you know, I, I, I puteverything I had into it, and
then you've always done that,and uh, always, yeah, and I
think there's something to besaid about that, and I also
think, like there's an importantpoint here Putting everything
you have into something is asacrifice, and the sacrifice

(01:06:55):
that you make is, you know,maybe a relationship you know
with a significant other, orthere's no balance at this level
, a relationship, uh, you knowwith a significant other or, um,
there, there's no, there's nobalance at this level, and, and
that that is, you know, the sadpart of it uh, to be competitive

(01:07:16):
, you have to do things that uhtake up a lot of your time.

Larry Shea (01:07:21):
Yeah, I mean you're playing in the deep end of the
pool, man, like right, right.

Dave Crafa (01:07:24):
so there's no, there's, there's really no
work-life balance.
Yep, uh, and I think one of themost important things to
realize is like, at at thislevel, your, your work-life
balance is essentially, uh,you're committed to the team
that you're working with andthey're your family, and you

(01:07:47):
know that was the way we werewhen we worked, and you know
there is really nothing elsebesides what you're doing.
And families fight.
Let's be real.
They do and they make up andthings are great.
But that's a really importantthing.

(01:08:08):
When you're operating at thislevel, work-life balance is
bullshit.
You're committed to yourlifestyle at work and your
family is the people at work andat some point you might be able
to turn that around.
But when you're hungry andyou're struggling and you're
making a name for yourself,unless you're, a significant

(01:08:32):
other is accepting of that or isinvolved in the same aspects of
work that you are and is partof that work family, which can
also cause problems yes, it can.

Tushar Saxena (01:08:52):
No, but you're making a good point.

Dave Crafa (01:08:53):
I mean yeah, I mean you got to go all in at this
level and I have regrets aboutdoing that, but you know, the
experiences I've had outweighthe regrets really, at the end
of the day, talk a little bitabout.

Larry Shea (01:09:14):
You know some of the people that have been through
there and built their careersthrough.
You mentioned ken lewis already.
We mentioned just blaze nasty,you, me, yeah, I mean there's so
many of us who you know.
This became not a stoppingpoint in our careers but a real
growing point in our careerswhere we really yeah, you know,
became something else and sawthat next level which allowed us

(01:09:36):
to get to the next level, andyou must be so proud of that I
love that, yeah, I, I love that.

Dave Crafa (01:09:42):
And, uh, that to me is, you know, fulfilling in a
deep, deep way.
You know I didn't, you know Ididn't have a family, I didn't
have children and who knows,maybe that you know may still
not, maybe that you know willchange.

(01:10:04):
This is your baby.

Tushar Saxena (01:10:07):
Dave, may still not.
Maybe that you know will change, but uh, uh, this is your baby.

Dave Crafa (01:10:11):
Dave but, but I don't yeah, it is, but but you
know, each person that comesthrough, uh and makes their mark
here, uh, you know, is it makesme really proud to be able to,
you know, feel like I helped insome you know significant or

(01:10:32):
insignificant way to, you know,help people find their way,
cause, cause they helped me findmy way.
It's a two way street.
It's incredible, you know.
I, I, I hope that you know thebusiness, you know the cutting
room and you know the essence ofwhat we do here continues long

(01:10:56):
after you know I've retired, oryou know I've just fallen off
the boat in the middle of theocean.

Larry Shea (01:11:02):
I was going to say you're in the middle of the
Caribbean, on your yacht.

Dave Crafa (01:11:10):
That sounds really really good.
One day I hope that that is thetruth but,
like, like the studio, that boatI put into, you know it's, it's
, it's a working boat.
Yeah, you know there's abusiness model involved in that.
You know there's a businessmodel involved in that.
That boat has helped us makethe construction of our second

(01:11:30):
space, you know, out in Chelseaa possibility, you know.
So unlike you to make money andkeep dumping it back into the
business, I don't know what'swrong with me.

Larry Shea (01:11:44):
Oh, you're good, you're good, so you know, dave,
that sets up a timely question.
I'm thinking about you're,starting by looking at ads in
the Village Voice and then we'vetalked about you know, to be
first in line, you need to beone.
The cutting room A the cuttingroom.

Dave Crafa (01:12:01):
A111.
Then we get to.
There's so many like room a111.
Then we get to.
There's so many like yeah, Iwish I had copies of the paper
to show you all the ridiculousthings people would do to become
first on the list.
Well, like it made a differencewell, now it's.

Larry Samuels (01:12:14):
You know the algorithms.
It's social media, it'spodcasting, it's youtube.
I mean, the world has changedso much in the time that you
have been on this journey.
I mean, isn't it so cool?
Absolutely.
But what does the future hold?
You know where do you seethings going for your industry,

(01:12:37):
your business and for the peoplewho are coming up behind you?

Dave Crafa (01:12:42):
Well, I think, well, I think, I think the best way
to understand that is toactually talk, to chat gpt, have
some deep conversations with itI've done that multiple times
today on multiple differentsubjects.
Yes, I mean, we're at the kneeof the curve right now of of of

(01:13:04):
technological insanity in ingood and bad ways, and I think
it's really one of the mostimportant uh or exciting uh
moments to be alive to seewhat's what's happening.
You know good and bad uh.
You know everyone's tried tolike forecast what music is

(01:13:31):
going to be like.
You know, even you know, duringthe, the moments where uh
Napster was disrupting thebusiness and you know it's
really hard to kind of say, well, it's going to look like this
or look like that, but all I cansay is like innovation will

(01:13:55):
prevail and creativity willprevail, and authenticity and
creativity will prevail, eventhough the future is.
You know, it's delicate andit's terrifying and it's
fascinating.

Larry Samuels (01:14:17):
Is it a threat to your business?

Dave Crafa (01:14:19):
No, not at all, not at all.
Why at all not at all?

(01:14:43):
Why, uh, because humans willalways need a place to, a
creative hub to, you know, to goto and to be human.

Tushar Saxena (01:14:58):
A laboratory.
A laboratory.

Dave Crafa (01:15:01):
Yeah, no, absolutely .
A laboratory yeah, no,absolutely.

(01:15:28):
I feel like we're kind of akinto sort of like a and I'm going
to go way out on a limb rightnow but to, like you know, like
a Andy Warhol factory style.
You know, culture that peoplethat work here and the culture
that is resonating from thefolks that work here is far
reaching and I feel like we'repart of a movement to a certain
extent and that's exciting for,like you know, a 58-year-old

(01:15:51):
dude who's, you know, like thereit is.

Tushar Saxena (01:15:55):
He gave away the age I am.
Come on, man.

Larry Samuels (01:15:58):
But it keeps you going.
It keeps you going, dave.
Last question yeah, somebodycoming into the work world today
who has dreams and aspirationsof getting to and who knows if
it's even possible but gettingto a similar place to where

(01:16:20):
you've wound up.
What advice do you have for ayoung person coming into the
business today?

Dave Crafa (01:16:27):
Sure Well, where I've wound up today is in great
debt, and I have to sleep on thecouch once in a while.
But I'm doing what I love.
Don't follow in these footsteps.
Apparently is the message right, yeah.
No, I've willfully done it.
I mean I could sell off all theassets and live like this cool

(01:16:50):
life.
I mean I don't even know whatwould be cool for me because
like it's not what I want to do.
Oh, you'd be so bored, dave.
Yeah, my wife would be happy,fair enough.

Larry Shea (01:17:00):
She'd be like finally, you know.

Dave Crafa (01:17:04):
But the bottom line is like this is a lifestyle,
it's a lifestyle commitment andI just love doing what we do and
I'm willing to sleep on a couchfor that.
I'm willing to go into debt,because I do see some amazing

(01:17:27):
things.
I want to see what's on theother side.
You know, that was the wholething why I didn't sell out
during, like the you know theperiod where bandwidth wasn't
fast enough to support a digitaldistribution model.
I want to see what it's.
What it's like like we soldphysical media.

(01:17:50):
Now we have a digital, you knowdistribution model and like,
where's it going from now?
Who would have like called theai?
Uh, you know we, we're justlike recovering from, you know,
from the piracy issue ofdownloads, and now we have
streaming and that seems to havecurtailed.

(01:18:14):
We're starting to monetizerecorded media again and then
all of a sudden, ai hits andit's like what the fuck is this?
But I'm psyched for it, man,like I, I really want to.
You know, this is beyond mywildest dreams, really, and, uh,
you know, I, I, I.

(01:18:36):
I think anyone who wants to getinvolved in this has to number
one stay open to thepossibilities and opportunities
that lots of people will kind oflike go oh, that's nothing, but
you got to stay open becausesome of the most ridiculous
opportunities or propositionssometimes pay off, as we've

(01:19:00):
discussed before.
That's key.
You can't waste your time withridiculous up.
You know you you'll learn howto identify what, what you
should stay open for, uh, as youget better at it and uh, but
but have fun, and and, becausethat's the only way you're going
to stay in the game.

(01:19:21):
Like, if you're not having fun,you won't be able to be
competitive.
Yeah, if you're not having fun,you won't be able to be
competitive.
If you're not competitive, you,you might as well do something
else, because you know this isultimately gotta be fun.
You know, no matter whatbusiness you're in, it has to be
something you love to do.

(01:19:42):
It's not, it can't be like Igotta do this again.
You know, it's just not going towork, you know, and fortunately
the cutting room has been aplace where people could, you
know, kind of deposit theirdreams and hopefully get
interest on them.
You know, uh, I know I didthat's an incredible story.

Larry Samuels (01:20:06):
I mean what you've been able to create from
where you started.
I can't imagine thesatisfaction, the pride, the joy
that comes from all of thatthat helps when you're sleeping
on the couch in the lounge whichI'll be doing tonight.

Dave Crafa (01:20:21):
by the way, Look, we just got a nice refrigerator.
We just bought a newrefrigerator.
I'm pretty happy with that.
You know, it makes ice now.

Tushar Saxena (01:20:30):
So big time.
Well, Dave, this is just beenabsolutely remarkable.

Larry Samuels (01:20:37):
You know um you know.
Thank you for the time.
Congratulations on all of yoursuccess.

Dave Crafa (01:20:44):
Thank you so much for having me.
I had such a great time tonight, thanks.

Larry Samuels (01:20:49):
So that was Dave Crafa of the Cutting Room
Studios, a really incredibleplace that I had the opportunity
to see not that long ago, andDave clearly is a very
interesting guy.
Larry Shea, thank you so muchfor bringing him to us, and why
don't you lead us into the wrapup of this conversation?

Larry Shea (01:21:07):
Yeah, I've known Dave's story for a long time,
obviously working for him.
But really cool to share itwith everybody else, you know,
because it's a story that needsto be told.
So many lessons, so many lifelessons, so many lessons about
building a business from theground floor up, literally from
his dorm room to what it is now,which is an amazing enterprise,

(01:21:29):
multiple facilities, amazingwhat he's built, you know.
But you could just hear theenergy when he speaks.
Right, it's contagious, right,it just his drive, his passion
and everything gets poured intothe business.
You know he goes and saysseveral times that it's a
lifestyle, right?

(01:21:50):
So you really see that he'sputting everything into it.
It's what he's done the entiretime that I've known him.
But the thing I really take awayfrom this guys is the sacrifice
.
You know he works harder thananybody.
I know I don't know how hefinds the time to do everything
that he does.
He's on three different coasts,flying all over the place

(01:22:12):
running his business.
Really admirable what he's puttogether.
I don't even know when hesleeps, to be honest with you.
But lastly and most importantly, how much do we miss the
village voice in New York City?

Tushar Saxena (01:22:28):
Yes, I'm glad you said this.
I really really miss that fromback in the day.
You know, the one thing I tookaway from this is that he really
has performed a miracle withthe cutting room floor, with the
cutting room floor studios,because being associated with
larry shea, that in and ofitself is a just surviving that.

(01:22:51):
It's like it's like going towar.
It's like going to war.
Of course I was, but butseriously, uh, you know, we talk
a lot about the show, about,you know, following your passion
, as you kind of mentioned, andobviously the passion he has for
what he does.
It absolutely exudes everythinghe says, every action he does,
but the but the one thing I was,I was.

(01:23:11):
I think the one thing we try toget across in the show is that,
look, if you pick a career thatyou love, you'll never work a
day in your life, and nothingcan be truer than in the, than
in terms of dave crave.
I mean, he obviously, orhonestly, he took a hobby and
turned it into his career.
Not many of us can ever say youknow, I can't take comic book

(01:23:32):
collecting and turn that into mycareer.
It's not going to happen.
He took a hobby where he wasjust really into music, really
into technology, combined thetwo and see what he's done.
It's really really miraculous,and the fact that he's able to
continue to do this to this dayat such a high level, he's one
of the most respected people inthe business.
That in and of itself is very,very telling.

Larry Samuels (01:23:54):
Absolutely, and I think for me, the key takeaway
was to be open.
He came back to that concept ortheme a whole bunch of times.
If you're open and you letpossibilities present themselves
and you wrap your arms aroundthem and just keep going,
there's no telling what thefuture holds and what you can

(01:24:14):
accomplish, and I just thinkthat that's incredible advice,
especially within an industrythat has been flipping upside
down and changing the entiretime that he has been in it.
So clearly, that is aphilosophy that's worked for him
and it's a philosophy that canwork for everybody else, no
matter what field they're in.

(01:24:34):
So with that, Dave, thank youso much for joining this episode
of no Wrong Choices.
We also thank you for joiningus.
If this episode made you thinkof somebody who could be a great
guest, we'd love to hear fromyou.
Please reach out to us throughthe contact page of our website
at norongchoicescom to let usknow.
While you're there, check outthe blog for a deeper look at

(01:24:57):
our takeaways from each episode.
You can also connect with us onsocial media.
We're on LinkedIn, Instagram,Facebook, YouTube and X.
On behalf of Larry Shea, TusharSaxena and me, Larry Samuels.
Thank you again for listening.
We'll be back next week withanother inspiring episode.