Driven to Cure: Dr. Beth Rackow’s Story of Purpose, Passion, and Resilience

Episode Transcript
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Beth Rackow (00:03):
Every part of medicine has the highs, the lows
, and you have to be able totolerate the best of days and
the worst of days.
There were times where, if oneof my classmates was on vacation
, I was working every other day,36-hour shifts and working 120
hours a week.
One of the coolest things thathas happened a few times is I've

(00:27):
had some students eitherwriting essays for college or
for medical school about theimpact that our relationship has
had on them.
That's something I'm so proud of.
I have the best job in theworld, and it's really what
drives me.
It makes the work worth it.

Larry Samuels (00:48):
Hello and welcome to the Career Journey podcast.
No Wrong Choices.
Today's episode features thehighly respected physician, dr
Beth Rakow of the ColumbiaUniversity Medical Center in New
York City.

Tushar Saxena (01:01):
I'm Larry Samuels , I'm Tushar Saxena and I'm
Larry Shea.

We'll be your hosts for what will undoubtedly
be a fascinating conversation.
Before Beth steps in, please besure to support the show by
liking, following andsubscribing to it wherever you
get your podcasts Now.
Let's get started Now.
Joining no Wrong Choices is thehighly distinguished OBGYN Dr

(01:26):
Beth Rakow.
You have to say this Dr Rakowworks for the Columbia
University Medical Center herein New York and is consistently
recognized as one of the topdoctors in her field by
prestigious organizations suchas Castle Connelly and New York
Magazine.
She's also an associateprofessor at Columbia University

(01:47):
Medical School and, on top ofall of those things, happens to
be my wife.
Dr Rakow, thank you for joiningus.
Thank you so much for having me.

Okay, Beth.
So here we go.
You have all these greataccolades, Beth, and yet you
married Larry Samuels.
What is the problem with you?

Larry Shea (02:09):
Everyone has faults.

I bet everyone's not perfect, you'd really need
me to answer that.
You have to answer.
This is the answer portion ofthe program.

Well, let's just say that Larry was not
intimidated by a strong,career-driven woman and actually
that was the type of person hewanted to partner with, and
can't say in my experience thatthose men were very easy to find

(02:37):
and we connected, so there.

That's a great answer.
Still, you could have donebetter.

Anyway, it is the best thing that's happened to me
so far.

I got very lucky too.
So now that that awkward partof the conversation is over,
let's set up the conversation.
So, Beth, each of our guests,we asked to just give us a bit
of background in terms of whoyou are and what you do, so
please set things up for us thatway.

I was thinking about this before this interview
and the little snippets of aTwitter profile came to me.
So I am a wife, a mother ofboth a little boy and a dog, a
physician, a friend.
I'm an outdoor enthusiast Iused to get to do more outdoor
adventuring when I was younger Aadvocate for causes that are

(03:31):
important to me.
Larry is annoyed by the factthat I'm a compulsive recycler.

Oh, yes, I am.
What does that mean you?
Throw stuff out, that's it.

And, I guess, a reformed slash former athlete.
And what do you do for a living?
So by training.
I'm an obstetrician gynecologistand after I finished my four
years of residency, Ispecialized in a field called
reproductive endocrinology andinfertility, where we focus on
hormone disorders andgynecologic disorders that can

(04:05):
affect reproduction, and alsotreating women and couples and
individuals with infertility.
As part of my training, I alsobecame enamored with this very
niche area in OBGYN, wherespecialists take care of girls
and adolescents who havegynecologic issues, Because when

(04:26):
a 10 or a 12-year-old girl hasa gynecologic issue and calls a
regular OBGYN to be seen, mostof the time they are not
comfortable seeing someone thatyoung and it really is a special
level of care to providechildren and adolescents who
have gynecologic issues.
So that became part of my nichepractice between the
endocrinology knowledge andsurgical knowledge, and there's

(04:48):
a number of people in thecountry who also have the same
skill set that I do.
So I spend my days in a fewdifferent places and every
morning I wake up and I have toremember which office I'm going
to and what day it is, otherwiseI might get very confused.
I see gynecologic surgerypatients which include females
and individuals from birth on upwho have gynecologic disorders

(05:12):
and surgical issues, and Iprovide surgical services for
those individuals who needdifferent types of gynecologic
surgery, always with the mindsetof protecting their future
reproductive potential whenpossible.
Then I also spend time at theColumbia University Fertility
Center, where I provide the fullscope of infertility care for

(05:33):
individuals and couples who aretrying to conceive.
That makes up my entire week interms of some office-based days
seeing patients, someprocedural days and some
surgical days as well.

Larry Shea (05:45):
So let's go back into the time machine, go back
to the beginning.
Fellow nutmegger, just fromdoing my research.
Connecticut is your home, whereyou grew up.
What was it like growing up inConnecticut?
What was your family like andwhat was the dream originally?

Well, I grew up with a family of four two
parents, a younger sister andthen several dogs along the way
and we grew up in just east ofHartford in a town called
Manchester, connecticut.
That was sort of a low-key town, a town that emphasized
education, sports programs andwas a great place to grow up.

(06:23):
We made tons of friends in thepublic school system.
One of the highlights of myyouth was playing on a
competitive girls soccer teamthat won the state championship
four times and that was aformative part of my childhood.
It was a huge part of myidentity and I think a huge part
of what started to make me whoI am today was playing

(06:48):
competitive sports on a team.

So did you envision yourself as a younger
girl being a professionalathlete or going into another
field where obviously you wouldtry and feel those competitive
juices?

I think I knew the competitive drive in me was
going to lead me elsewhere.
Because I think I knew myphysical limitations at five
foot one inch, the number oftrue sporting options were
definitely limited.
I was never that great at anysport.
I just loved playing sports andI loved being part of a team.

Did that competitiveness carry over to
your academics?

Good question.
I think it definitely did.
I mean, I was a bookworm as achild, always really curious and
loved school, and school camefairly easy and naturally to me
for a long time.
I think I was competitive, yes,with those around me, but I
think I was most competitivewith myself and I think I had
this internal drive to do welland to succeed and that was

(07:55):
definitely something that was inathletics as well as in
academics.

What was your favorite subject?

I like the sciences , like I definitely liked
biology, but as we talk about mystory today, I'm sometimes a
little more scattered than that.
So I also liked my Englishclasses and I also thought
history was cool.
So, yes, I would say sciencewas one of my favorite classes
and biology definitely wasinspiring.
I liked a lot of other thingstoo.

Larry Shea (08:23):
Was this self-motivation or family-driven
?
What was the genesis of that?

I think there's a good amount of self-motivation,
but I would say I also hadparents who were strongly
encouraging of my ambitions andwere also pushing me in a good
way.
Like my mother used to jokethat she kept me so busy with

(08:49):
afterschool activities, I didn'thave time to get in trouble.
My parents were supportive andappropriately pushing me to work
hard and excel.

So in high school , who was Beth Rakow?
So you're playing sports,you're doing well in class.
When does this person thatyou've become really start to
emerge?
Are you a leader?
Who is Beth Rakow during thosehigh school years?

In high school, some parts of me blossomed.
I think that's when I startedto have more leadership
opportunities.
In fact, I was class presidentas a freshman and again as a
senior, and I think I took on alot of leadership roles on teams
.
I don't think I was a teamcaptain, but I was often someone

(09:43):
other players still looked upto, and I was always a hard
worker.
I also participated in otherextracurriculars.
I wasn't just an athlete, but Iwas engaged in other community
service projects and otherthings that I also thought were
important.

Larry Shea (10:00):
Yeah, so I mean this starts to make a lot of sense.
Then right, you havecompetitive edge with sports,
your favorite classes arescience, biology, and you want
to help people and give back.
I mean, I'm starting to seedoctor.

It's pretty clear .

Larry Shea (10:13):
Yeah, Is that how it worked?
And like, at what age are youseeing that goal and saying this
is going to be something I'mgoing to do for the rest of my
life?

Well, when I was a little girl, I would.
My father would come home andevery single night he would call
the patients that he had doneprocedures on that day.
He was an endodontist, so hewould be doing a lot of office
surgical procedures and listento him.

(10:46):
Listen to him talk to hispatients in his doctor voice,
Listen to him call prescriptionsinto the pharmacist and use all
this jargon.
I was so enamored by what hedid.

Larry Shea (10:54):
What's a doctor voice?
Give me a doctor voice.

It just became very , had this cool, calm demeanor
and, very matter of fact, it wasa different tone than he would
take with me and my sister etcetera.
So that was a very formativesort of part of what encouraged
me just to think that what mydad did was so cool.
And growing up my parents'closest friends one was an

(11:21):
internist, one was adermatologist, one veterinarian,
and so there was lots ofmedicine talk around the table
when we'd all get together and Ijust thought that how they gave
back to people and helpedpeople and animals was just the
most remarkable career journey.
And I sort of never looked back.

(11:44):
It was always in the back of myhead that being a physician was
something that I wanted to do.
But I came from a line ofdentists.
So my dad's dad, my paternalgrandfather, who I never knew,
was also a dentist.
So I was on track to be thefirst MD in the family, but

(12:07):
still following that family lineof medicine and dentistry.

Larry Shea (12:12):
It seems a good time to ask.
So let's get it out of the way.
Whenever I thought about beinga doctor, I was too squeamish.
I was like not happening.

Blood guts.

Larry Shea (12:21):
Nope, not happening.
Did you ever have any of thosethoughts, or wasn't even a
concern?

So interestingly, I learned over time that if I was
the doer, like when I'm doingthings, it doesn't really gross
me out or freak me out.
However, there was a time whenI was on an internship in
college with an anesthesiologistand I was watching him put in

(12:47):
an IV and, oh my gosh, I startedto feel lightheaded and dizzy
and had a ghost of a cold andleave the room.
And when people are doing stuffto me I can't really watch.

Larry Shea (12:58):
I can't either.
Same thing and you're a doctor.

I used to think I could I remember when I was
younger, someone was taking amole off my leg and I was like,
oh, I want to go into medicine,I can watch this.
And I totally started to feellightheaded and dizzy.
I don't really watch blooddraws IVs on me.
Really the needles freak youout.
The needles don't freak me out,because I've taken tons of them
and had myself tons of shots,but I can't watch someone do

(13:25):
these things to me, I just lookaway.

Larry Shea (13:27):
It's fine, I got you .

Yeah, same.
So let's talk about the nextstep.
Where was college?

So when it came to college, I looked far and wide.
I knew I didn't want to venturetoo far from the Northeast and
I wanted to get the besteducation, the best experience,
be part of the best like thecommunity.
That felt right to me.
I was also a little crazybecause I played a very unique
sport.
I played women's ice hockey,which was something I started to
pick up and play.
Is there a sport you haven'tplayed?
Soccer?

You play hockey, for God's sake played soccer.

You played hockey, for god's sake.
So I had been a figure skateras a kid, and in high school I
had this amazing coach whocoached me in soccer and groomed
me to play ice hockey, and Ifell in love with that sport,
and so I knew, if I could find away to play it in college, that
would be awesome, because Iknew that there would be no
hockey for me after college.
Like I had no crazy aspirations.
I was limited in terms ofplaces that were schools that I

(14:32):
wanted to go to that had awomen's college hockey program,
so that was the other thing.
I looked at places that didn'thave college hockey, but somehow
the opportunity to go to agreat school and play hockey was
just a double win, and I fellin love with Yale, and so that
is where I ended up for college.

Larry Shea (14:52):
Yale's pretty good too, by the way.
Chattel's free Yale.

I had a good experience.

Larry Shea (14:58):
Talk to us about Yale in New Haven.
Was it isolated?
Did you leave campus?
Because New Haven can be alittle crazy, Just knowing the
area myself.
Obviously the best pizza in theHaven.
Was it isolated?
Did you leave campus?
Because New Haven can be alittle crazy, Just knowing the
area myself obviously the bestpizza in the world, but you can
say it.

Besides that New Haven's a little bit shady.

Larry Shea (15:12):
It is.
It's a little bit, but Yale Iknow, and most college campuses
you can just stay on campus andget enough of a varied
environment that it's not a bigdeal.
But did you venture out?
Were you so busy with yourschool that you didn't really do
much extracurricular stuff?
What was Yale like?

Yale is a fairly sizable college and then there's
all the graduate schools thatare part of it, but they tried
to make the community muchsmaller by having these
residential colleges.
So you are assigned randomly toa residential college.
I think at the time there werethese residential colleges, so
you are assigned randomly to aresidential college.
I think at the time there were12 residential colleges and I
was in Trumbull College and itwas a way of taking a freshman

(15:52):
class that was maybe, I feel,like 1,200 or so and making it
no, it had to be more like 2,000.
And it was more like 200 peoplein your class were part of this
group and it gave you a more ofan identity and made a larger
place feel a lot smaller andintimate, and that was important
.
The other thing is Yale campus.

(16:13):
It definitely spreads out.
There's a bunch of blocks thatare all together, but I spent a
lot of time on Science Hill andat the rink and those were, you
know, a mile off away fromcampus, so you definitely didn't
always feel like you were oncampus.
And then the other thing is, aswe talked about community
service before you, I did a lotof community service working at

(16:34):
soup kitchens, teachingenvironmental education to kids
in classrooms.
So I definitely felt like I gotout and got to know the
community to some extent byparticipating in the tremendous
community service offerings thatwere a great part of my Yale
education.

What are the dynamics for the students?
Yale education what are thedynamics for the students?
How competitive is theenvironment and is there an
underlying theme ofcompetitiveness at that level?

The joke often was at Yale that the hardest thing
was to get in and then, once yougot in, you could be as intense
as you wanted to, but youdidn't have to be.
There was a wide variety ofpeople who were much more driven
cutthroat, took the toughestclasses, had to be top of the
class, and lots of people whojust lived life as a Yale

(17:27):
student and did what they had todo.
But a huge part of theexperience was the socializing.
A huge part would be amazingcelebrities, international
figures, you name it, who wouldcome to campus to lecture, who
you had access to.
There's so much about theexperience that didn't just
happen in the classroom.

Larry Shea (17:46):
So I know you had the passion for the outdoor
stuff as well.
You're studying the environment.
Was it close in terms ofchoosing environmental work for
the rest of your life or being adoctor, which you were so
enamored with when you wereyounger, and were you doing both
at the same time?
Was there a switch thathappened?
Tell me about the actualdecision of all right, I'm gonna

(18:09):
then put the environmentalstuff over here and focus on
this.

I always told people that I had two passions,
that one was the environment andone was medicine, and that I
also knew that a career inmedicine was a much more
straightforward route.
If I wanted to do environmentalstuff, I might have done
environmental law.
That was a brief thought.
Interestingly, my environmentalinterest and passion led me to

(18:39):
work for the National ParkService for two summers.
I was a park ranger intern atYosemite National Park, full-on
government employee at AcadiaNational Park.
I got these fabulous experiencesand I would be out there
teaching groups of people,leading them on hikes, teach
them all about the park, whatwas unique about it, and that, I

(18:59):
think, helped me with publicspeaking.
I learned a ton.
I would go hiking on my daysoff.
It was two of the best summerexperiences possible as I was
submitting my medical schoolapplications, so I knew that
that was part of me that wasgoing to get tucked away a
little bit once medicine becamemy career path science instead

(19:36):
of medicine and there werepeople I had to convince why you
can have more than one passionin life.
And then there were people onthe interview trail who thought
that it was great that I hadmore than one passion and there
were other things that made meinteresting so, and there was
some convincing that needed tohappen.

Larry Shea (19:47):
Yeah, it sounds like a little inside the podcast
here.
Larry Samuel sends us notes onhis lovely wife and last night
I'm going through the notes andhe's like I think she worked at
Yellowstone or maybe Yosemite.
She's like I don't know, I'mlike I'm going to quiz you.
I'm going to quiz you tomorrowduring the podcast, because you
need to know I love Acadia.
Say the name of the town thatAcadia National Park is in for

(20:11):
me I was wondering if it wasgoing to be Bahaba Give me the
main version Cadillac Mountain,a wonderful, wonderful place.
So it was close.
There was a lot of convincingthat needed to be done for you
to actually take the leap and bea doctor, correct?

Well, I knew I wanted that path.
I had to convince others that Iwas dedicated to that path, not
every Meaning professors familywhen I was out interviewing for
medical school my personalstatement probably talked about
another experience.
I'd had my list of jobs before.

(20:46):
Et cetera were allenvironmental-based and just
because I hadn't been in alaboratory doing basic science
and writing papers on that, mypath wasn't the typical medical
student trajectory, even thoughin my heart that was always what
I wanted to end up doing.

Larry Shea (21:00):
I'm curious about your learning process because to
be a doctor, obviously vastamount of knowledge needs to be
gained.
People sometimes visualizesomething photographic memory
repetition.
Were you challenged at Yale?
What type of a learner were you?
Did you just have to grind itout or did it come easy?

I would say in college some classes were easier
than others.
The sciences were tough.
They definitely were.
I graduated.
I don't even remember what myGPA was.
It was fine but it wasn'tanything exceptional.
But in medical school some ofit came easy, but I also worked
really hard.
I took copious notes.
I studied a lot.
I was pouring over theinformation plenty to get it to

(21:39):
sink in.
I recognize that some topicscame easier than others, but I
put in the time.

How many medical schools did you apply to?

I don't remember 10 , 15.

Oh, wow 10 or 15.
Wow, what is that process?
Is it a unique application foreveryone, where you're spending
months putting this stufftogether?

I really don't remember.
I believe there might have beena common application and then
every school had extrainformation that they would send
you extra essays wanting extrainformation, essays wanting
extra information.
And then you had to take a test.
This test called the MCATs,this medical test hours and
hours where the score mattered,and also letters of
recommendation.

(22:21):
So there was a lot that wentinto your application.

Do you remember how many schools you got into?
One?
Really yes, 15 applications.
You got into UConn, correct?

And I got into UConn off the wait list so I get
in Really.
Yes, I mean it is interestingand it's something I definitely
share with students Also peoplewho I know of, who are trying to
get into medical school andhaving a hard time, at least at

(23:01):
that time.
This is what 1996, was gearedto let in everyone who was going
to excel in the field.
It was very focused on testscores, it was very focused on
research and places where Ididn't shine and at UConn the
director of admissions thoughtit was the coolest thing that I
was park ranger and when Igraduated towards the top of my
class and from medical school, Iremember saying to him, me and

(23:24):
my three anatomy lab partners atleast three of us got in off
the wait list and we allgraduated towards the top of our
class.
I was like you should rethinkyour admissions criteria, three
out of the four of us might nothave gotten in.

Larry Shea (23:44):
I'm just so curious what would you have done if you
didn't get into that one school?
Would you have kept at it, orwould you just pivoted?

But what about all those people who you take
care of every single day?
Where would they be?

I graduated college and it was actually just a
personally really trying time.
I had not gotten into medschool yet.
I was on the wait list at twoplaces and I was starting the
process over.
Yale was still helping me atthe graduate.
I had a new advisor.
I was out of college, living athome and starting the
application process again.

(24:14):
College, living at home andstarting the application process
again.
And in that moment, all of asudden, I got this call July 5th
and they said you want to cometo UConn?

I was like can I take a year off and then come?
And they were like now or never.
What were the emotions duringthat period of time?
I mean, you must have been sostressed out.

I mean, like what were those emotions?
Right, Because you graduatecollege and everyone's like
what's next?
And I'm like don't really knowyet, but I'm going to work, I'm
committed to seeing my dreamhappen.

Amazing.
So going to med school veryquickly.
I just want to get a feel forthe day to day.
What are the demands on amedical school student.
Are you putting in 12, 14-hourdays?
Are you constantly studying?
Are you constantly in the lab?
What are the rigors of medicalschool in general?

The first two years are mostly classroom-based,
where at my medical school welearned the normal anatomy and
physiology year one and then wedelved into the abnormal year
two.
And year one is the year thatwe did gross anatomy, where we
literally dissected a cadaverall year long.

Can I interject for one second, Tushar?
Does abnormal make you think ofa movie Abnormal?
Of course it does Frankenstein.
Sorry, I had to get that in.
Please continue.

And so those first two years are mostly
classroom-based, but we wouldget some experience, starting to
learn clinical skills and thephysical exam and talking to
patients, because we wouldcertain afternoons go off and
work shadow physicians and startto get some experience.
And then third and fourth yearsis when you're doing all your
rotations and going to likepediatrics and psychiatry and

(25:55):
internal medicine and surgeryand OBGYN and getting these
multi-week rotations througheach field.
Your classroom time, I think,if I remember correctly, was
very structured.
You had class nine to three,nine to four, whatever you had,
labs et cetera, but then youwould spend your evening
studying, socializing too.

(26:17):
It was also a very social time,but you would study because
you'd have tests, practicalexams et cetera.
But when you went on torotations, that's when life was
crazy.
That's when we were up at fourand five in the morning at the
hospital because the medicalstudents had a round before the
residents, before the attendingphysicians, and the hours were
just insane.
No one was paying attention tohow many hours we worked and you

(26:40):
would also take call alongsideresidents, et cetera.
So it could be, depending onthe rotation you were on, it
could be really, reallydifficult.

So you're a triple threat in terms of your
own concentrations.
You're a surgeon, obgyn, rei, Ibelieve.
How did that factor intomedical school for you?
At what point did you say, okay, I want to be an OB or no, I
want to be a surgeon, I want togo into this aspect of my
medical career.
How did that play into medicalschool for you?

I remember going through all my rotations and
really enjoying every single one.
I even liked psychiatry, whichis good because I feel like I'm
a part-time psychiatrist in myday job.

And your night job, too Nice.

You get all these experiences and I began to
realize that I liked continuityof care.
I liked taking care of someonethroughout a chunk of time in
their life.
I didn't like seeing a patientin the ER and then not knowing
what happened when my shift wasover.
Like seeing a patient in the ERand then not knowing what
happened when my shift was over.
I didn't like being the surgeonwho fixed something and then
sent the patient on their way.

(27:40):
So I realized I like continuityof care.
I realized I was reallyinspired by women's health and I
realized that I liked thesurgical aspect of medicine and
that I liked fixing things.
And I had some really awesomeexperiences with some surgeons
where I was at some really smallhospitals doing a surgery
rotation where it was thesurgeon and it was me and I was

(28:02):
the other body scrubbed in andthey were letting me start to
learn breast biopsies,appendectomies, all this stuff
skin closures for plasticsurgery, operations and I
learned so much and I fellabsolutely in love with the
surgical part of a career and Irealized that there's only a few

(28:23):
specialties that allow you bothcontinuity of care and surgery.
Now my classmates had pegged meas an OBGYN from year one and
everyone's like you're goinginto OB, we know it, and I was
like come, let me experienceeverything else.
But they were right.

Larry Shea (28:39):
As you're telling that you're stressing me out.
So I have to ask the stressquestion, because I couldn't
imagine doing what you do andstudying like that and the hours
that you were keeping at thatpoint in time.
So at that point, did it stressyou out?
Because you sound excited aboutit.
You sound like the challengewas gripping and exciting and
passionate about it, whereas forme my heart starts racing and

(29:00):
I'm like I can't do this.
So thank goodness for peoplelike you.
But were you stressed back then?
And if so, and if so now, howdo you handle that stress?
Was sports a part of it incollege?
And now you have to handle thatvery differently.

The way I handled the stress in medical school and
residency was working hardhelped me just feel better, like
I had more command of theinformation I needed to know.

Larry Shea (29:27):
Preparation yeah.

I also played on a local soccer team throughout
medical school and then aseparate team when I was in
residency, keeping up just someathletics.
I was a runner way back then,so I would run for exercise.
That was very important for mymental health.
And then also connections withpeople who weren't in medicine,

(29:49):
because it is also so easy tojust pigeonhole yourself and
only talk medicine all the time.
In fact, when I was inresidency I lived with my sister
, who was a law student at thetime, and I loved it when her
friends would come over and wewouldn't talk about medicine.

So, beth, the times when students hit the
rotation portion of theirmedical school career, when you
all have to head into thehospital, as you said, the first
couple of years of med schoolit's all about classroom work.
Does it become more like bootcamp when you officially hit the
hospital and then, obviously,you're working hours upon hours
upon hours on end?
Is that really where youseparate the wheat from the
chaff?

Yes, I think the intensity of the rotations?
Absolutely.
You're part of a team.
Med students can only do oh somuch.
But you're there to help, torun errands, to take care of the
most mindless of tasks and justto soak it all in and learn.
But it can be a gruelingexperience based on what's

(30:46):
expected of you, the number ofhours, and I will say medical
school is much kinder andfriendly now when I see how our
medical students are treated.

The kids always have it easier now than we did
back then.
True, how hands-on was it atthat point?
I mean, obviously you said youdo a lot of scut work, you're
following around residents, etc.
But how hands-on was it?

It really depended on your team and on, like your
senior resident and who took youunder their wing.
And I think if you wereinterested, motivated and worked
hard, people were alwayswilling to give you more
experiences and worked hard.
People were always willing togive you more experiences.
If you were annoying, whiny anddidn't want to work that hard,

(31:26):
of course people weren't thatinvested in your education.
So that's a very simplisticview, but I think you found ways
to gain more skills.
I didn't really know how toplace an IV and by the time I
was a fourth-year medicalstudent I was like shoot,
someone's got to teach me how todo this.
So I was on my ER rotation andI made friends with a bunch of
the nurses and I got them toteach me, because they're the

(31:46):
ones who are so good at it, andthey would find all the people
in the ER who needed IVs, whohad these big veins, and they
would pull me into the room andmake me place IVs and to this
day, I'm actually very good atit.
But you had to seek outopportunities and so, like
anything in life, experiencesare what you make of them.

So focusing things a little bit.
We've gone through college,we've gone through medical
school.
If I remember correctly, youdid your residency at the
University of Pennsylvania inPhiladelphia, so you've chosen
to be an OBGYN.
How do you start to focus andreally begin to become the Dr

(32:26):
Beth Rakow that we know today?
How do you make those choices,those decisions, how do you
sharpen that lens?

So again, it's the breadth of experience you get on
all your rotations as aresident, which are now all
focused in the field that youplan to have your career in,
where you spend time learningobstetrics both in the office as
well as on the labor floor.
You learn gynecology, both inthe office and in surgery and

(32:55):
you learn from all thesubspecialties that are part of
our field and start to realizewhat resonates with you.
Again, I had mentors thathelped sort of shape who I am
and the career that I wanted.
But I realized that I likedsome of the younger population
in OBGYN.
I still liked continuity ofcare and I still liked surgery.

(33:15):
I was really enamored by thefield of reproductive
endocrinology and infertilityand again, mentorship played a
huge role in making me theperson that I am today.
By my second year of residency Ihadn't really thought that that
was what I was going to do.
I thought I was going to be ahigh-risk obstetrician and
that's what most people thoughtI was going to do, just based on

(33:36):
what it seemed like I liked.
But this was a huge right turnto a very different field which
is more based in medicine andendocrinology, but also surgery
and infertility care.
I was fortunate that one of thepeople who I'm still close with
today also focused part of herpractice on the care of kids and

(33:56):
adolescents who havegynecologic issues, specifically
problems many of which aren'tissues that a general
obstetrician gynecologist arecomfortable taking care of, and
so I also knew that this was aniche field that I wanted to be
part of my practice.

Before making this decision, how many babies
did you deliver?
Oh, my goodness, goodness Iknow the answer that I'm asking
this question I think it's wellover a thousand.

I couldn't let that slip on a thousand kids.
You brought in a lot, yeah,lots of.

I mean.
I also trained before what isnow the 80 hour work week.
So nowadays, residents havetheir work hours carefully
monitored and they can only work80 hours in a week.
They can only work so manyhours consecutively without 24
hours off.
As I said, kinder gentlerdefinitely better.

(34:49):
They learn so much better whenthey're not one eye open all the
time Working.
Before that, there were timeswhere, if one of my classmates
was on vacation, I was workingevery other day, 36-hour shifts
and working 120 hours a week 36hours.
Yeah, because you'd show up inthe morning, you'd work till the

(35:10):
next evening, you'd go home andsleep and you'd come back the
next day and do it again.
It was a tough way to learn.
I mean, lectures were hard tokeep your eyes open during.
We drank tons of coffee thereis something to be said for a
sick patient coming into thehospital and you took care of
them for 36 hours.
You learned so much and thesedays there's more handoffs and
shift work, but it is a betterlifestyle and a better way of

(35:34):
learning.
So that was definitely a roughpatch.

What do you love about the job and what do you
hate about the job?

Well, what I love about my job?
I love the connection that Imake with patients.
I love helping people,especially when some of the
things I do and offer are thingsthat either others haven't been
able to fix or haven't beenable to figure out.
The figuring out, the problemsolving and then improving the
quality of someone's life I meanthat just is one of the coolest

(36:03):
things.
What do I not like about it?
My husband will know this.
I'm tortured by medical records.
I'm tortured by notes andkeeping up with constant
communication from patients.
One of my practices, patientsemail us.
My other practice, patientssend portal messages and it is
nonstop.
That, I think, is hard becauseyou feel such a responsibility.

(36:26):
I think some of it is hard todelegate to somebody else, and I
think AI is coming to help withthis.
Larry, they're talking about it, Very exciting, but hoping that
there's going to be other waysto help write some of these
notes and provide documentation.
That isn't me sitting on thecouch catching up on notes at

(36:47):
night.

Larry Shea (36:47):
Speaking of responsibility, how do you
handle mistakes?
I mean, we all make them andshe's got malpractice insurance.

you moron, Stop it.

Larry Shea (36:59):
But it's so funny.
I have so many questionsrelated to that because we all
talk about like I don't feellike myself today.
I don't feel 100%.
You can't have a bad day Likeyour bad days.
There are dire consequences.
There are bad things thathappen and I was joking with
these guys before.
If I have a bad day, like agame doesn't get on the air on

(37:20):
serious Oops, that's a bad dayfor me.
But there are lives at stake.
So how do you handle mistakes?
Do you feel that pressure andthat stress?

Yes, there is pressure and stress.
I mean to be a surgeon and takeon that responsibility, but I
think you know the things that Ido is I'm very detail-oriented
in terms of the evaluation, thetesting, the counseling all that
goes into taking care of apatient.
I work with amazing colleaguesand there's always people around
that I can bounce ideas andthings off of.

(37:48):
I have colleagues outside of myspecialty who I know I could
turn to for help if I need helpduring a surgery or if I need my
patient to see someone else andget another opinion or have
something else looked into.
So I think that there'ssomething about the community
and the people who surround youthat helps you through sort of

(38:10):
the stress of the grind of theday-to-day job.
In terms of handling mistakes.
I mean, I think we know that inmedicine, outcomes cannot be
guaranteed and it's one of thehardest things.
It's something that I talk topatients about all the time.
I mean, there's days I comehome and I just say like gosh,
I'm just so tired of getting badnews.
And a lot of these thingsaren't mistakes, but they are

(38:33):
just things that we have nocontrol over, things we can't
fix.
But there have, of course,along the way, been things that
haven't gone the way they'resupposed to, and I think
acknowledging it to patients andexplaining what happened and
finding ways to make it right, Ithink being open and honest to
the best that we can, isimportant.

How do you stay current with procedures, with
new practices that are out there, with new teachings that are
out there?
How do you stay current withprocedures, with new practices
that are out there, with newteachings that are out there?
How do you stay current?

So a lot of different ways.
We have continuing medicaleducation and I have to do X
number of credits per year ofeither going to meetings and
saying that I sat through thisnumber of lectures reading
articles, and there's a certainnumber of articles I have to
read every year to maintain asmaintenance of certification.
So there's a number ofdifferent ways, both locally,

(39:23):
within the two divisions that Iwork within.
Like we always have eitherpeople coming to talk to us or
have people presenting papersand things that we're talking
about in terms of currentresearch, going to national
meetings, talking to colleagues,listservs.
There's so many different waysto work to stay current.

Larry Shea (39:40):
How do you prepare for surgery?
Everyone has a routine orsomething to get your frame of
mind right.
Do you meditate?
Do you?

play loud music.
Everyone has a different thing.
I think that they do.

Larry Shea (39:54):
I don't know what I would do, but I want.
If I'm laying on the table, Iwant to make sure that my doctor
is focused and ready with it.
What's your routine?

It's so funny.
I definitely get my game faceon, but there is coffee in the
morning.

It's got to be there.
And the game face, by the way,starts the second.
She gets out of bed.

She's focused from the very second her feet hit the
floor yeah because I'm usuallyrunning late and so I need to be
late in there.
So there's coffee, there'sputting my scrubs on, putting on
my OR hat, talking to thepatient, signing consent forms,
and that's starting down myprocess of focus.
I mean, the night before Iusually have reviewed the

(40:32):
patient's chart and reviewed myplan for surgery, so I have all
that information fresh in myhead.
And then in the operating room,I'm talking to the team who's
with us today about what we'redoing for each procedure.
We even have a timeoutprocedure that's required by the
institution, but we're talkingabout through a list of what's
the case, what are our concerns,what are safety things we need

(40:55):
to think about, unique issuesfor this patient that need to be
on our minds.
What's everyone's name and rolein the room?
We all make sure that we knoweach other and then, once we get
going, we turn on music and Ilike music in the background and
my husband does not like popmusic, so I have pop music in
the background and who knowswhat it might be.

(41:15):
There was one year where it wasa lot of Ed Sheeran, justin
Bieber, there's like anythingunder the sun anyways.

I would not want you to be my surgeon if you're
listening to Bieber, not achance it's not loud.

I just need to actually not be in my head too
much and I need to have a littlesomething, because I can't have
the room be quiet, but I alsodon't want to hear everyone
else's side conversations.

Larry Shea (41:37):
Right, what is the timeout procedure like and how
many people are in the room?
Roughly.

So usually in the room we have an anesthesiologist
, me the surgeon.
I usually have someone trainingwith me, usually a fellow.
There is a scrub tech who'shanding us instruments and a
circulating nurse.
That's the minimum, andsometimes there's a few other
duplicates of other people whoare in the room.
Sometimes I have a medicalstudent or a resident with me as
well, and the timeout isactually a very serious moment

(42:08):
where everyone is supposed tostop what they're doing,
announce that we're doing atimeout, no music on and
everyone's paying attention andnot fiddling with something or
still organizing or setting up.
I run it.
So the surgeon is supposed totalk through who the patient is,
their medical record, what theprocedure is, and then we talk
about do they need antibiotics?
How are we preventing bloodclots?
What are our safety concerns?

(42:29):
Do we need blood productsordered All these different
things that we go through andmake sure that everyone is
protected with the appropriatepersonal protective equipment,
everyone has eye protection onand that everyone's in agreement
that we've gone througheverything we need to go through
.
So it is a step by step,institutionally required process
and the first thing is, atleast for the first case of the

(42:51):
day, we all introduce ourselvesand state what our roles are, so
everyone remembers each other'snames.

Right.
Can you think of a case thatyou're particularly proud of?
Is there a surgery that you'vedone that you're very proud of?
That really was a signaturemoment for you.

But there's definitely been a few cases of
some adolescents who havecongenital or from birth
variations of how theirreproductive tract formed and
these can cause pain.
They can have block problems,with either abnormalities of the
vagina or of the uterus thatrequire a detailed surgery and

(43:28):
someone who knows what they'redealing with, and there've been
times where patients have eitherbeen mismanaged elsewhere or
just no one's been able tofigure out what's going on, and
the opportunity to see and treatthese individuals and fix what
needs to be fixed and help themget their life back and help
empower this young person to goahead and have a normal, healthy

(43:52):
reproductive life and talkabout what this means for future
fertility, et cetera like thatis such a special and unique
experience.
There's this one young womanwho I saw after several other
gynecologic consultations tofigure out why she never got her
first period.
We figured out pretty quicklythat she had a very unique

(44:12):
gynecologic disorder that wasgonna require surgery to fix
because there was somethingabnormal about her vagina and
menstrual blood couldn't comeout.
To take care of her required meto assemble a team of surgeons
to help fix the problem in anemergent, time-sensitive way,
and she's been under my care forprobably the past 12 years, so

(44:34):
she's actually one of my longestpatients since I'm at my
current job in New York City,and it's just been so remarkable
to watch her grow up and seehow she navigates this condition
and how it can influence hercurrent reproductive and sexual
life, as well as her ability forfuture reproduction, and she's
just dealt with it with suchgrace and positivity.

(44:58):
It's tough to be a young womangrowing up who is different than
their peers.
In some ways.
This person has an interest ingoing into the medical field,
and one of the things thatreally was a special moment that
we shared is she told me thatthe essay that she wrote to help
her navigate the waters ofstarting medical school or

(45:21):
physician's assistant school orsomething, is that she wrote
about our relationship.
That's just so special to mejust to think that in this field
, where I take care of theseyoung women and I'm the first
gynecologist that they reallyinteract with that you can
really have such a marked impacton someone's life.

Larry Shea (45:42):
And with all these hats, you also teach.
So, talk to us a little bit.
I mean, I don't know where youfind the time to teach, but talk
to us about how that came about.
Do you love it and who are youteaching?

I do two different forms of teaching and some of
the teaching I do is a dedicatedPowerPoint lecture or
case-based lecture where I'mteaching.
Occasionally medical students,more commonly our residents and
fellows, and sometimes othergroups or divisions at the
hospital, ask me to come speakon a certain topic, so that I

(46:15):
very much like is a moredidactic but often interactive
conversation on a specific topic.
The other type of teaching andthis is what I do more of all
the time is patient-facingteaching where often when I'm in
my office seeing 25 to 30patients, I have often a
resident working with me who'sseeing my patients alongside me,

(46:38):
and sometimes they'll go into aroom to take a patient's
history, come out and talk to me.
We'll talk about the patient,we go back in together.
So there's in the momentteaching which I so enjoy
because I think that's for methat was one of the ways that I
learned best.
There's some great, alwaysnuance and clinical pearls and
things that just resonate whenyou've seen it and dealt with it

(47:01):
hands-on.
So that is the other type ofteaching that sort of happens in
stride, both in the office aswell as the days that I'm in
surgery where I may haveresidents with me during those
days.

And I can see the pride and the joy and the
satisfaction that you get fromthat all the time.
Your kids, they're your kids.
Something else that we do wantto explore is something that you
have been fighting for a periodof time.
We recently had a guest onnamed Sadia Zapp, who works for

(47:34):
the Breast Cancer ResearchFoundation, and it was a very
unique conversation for us tohave, because this is a young
woman who happens to work forthe company or for the
association that exists to fightthe disease she is fighting.
It was such a moving discussion.
Similarly, you have also beenstruggling with cancer and

(47:59):
fighting cancer for quite sometime now, and I can't imagine as
a physician, as a doctor,knowing what you know and living
the life that you do, howsomebody can do that and how you
manage to push through, from atime perspective, an energy
perspective, a scenario ofknowing too much.

(48:22):
Can you talk to us a little bitabout your fight and your
struggle?

Sure.
So it's been hard to believealmost nine years since my
cancer diagnosis.

Wow, I didn't realize that long.
I mean I was saying it was awhile, but nine years.
Wow.

Yeah, Going on nine years in February 2025.
Wow, and it knocked me off myfeet and was never what I
expected as a newlywed.
It's been a journey.
It's been eye-opening in lotsof ways, challenging, had a lot

(49:06):
of hairstyles along the waythanks to chemotherapy.

You were a blonde when I met you.
I has been eye-opening, to saythe least, and experience people
who I really wish treated methe way I think I treat other
people.

I've had to advocate for myself.
I've had to get multiple secondopinions to try to understand
what to do.
I mean, the cancer I'm dealingwith is very rare, so rare that
there's not a playing field outthere.
If this was a more commoncancer, playing field out there,
if this was a more commoncancer, there would be a path

(50:02):
and you do A and then you do Band then you do C.
Well, I passed all those thingsa long time ago and I'm doing
great, as great as you can do.
But my physician jokes that Ilive in a data-free zone.
There is no medical study thatsays what we should do next.
And I've been a guinea pig andI've tried lots of innovative

(50:23):
things and I'm fortunate thatI've often responded to lots of
innovative things that I'vetried.
But I've also worked fairlyfull time throughout this.
Whether that makes me crazy ornot, it has been the best
distraction, because I can't sitat home and think about the
fact that I have cancer.
I would rather be the doctorthan the patient and it's just

(50:48):
been grounding for me, just tonormalize life as best as I can.
So that's been part of my mind,that I have a tremendous team
around me and I recognize thatas a physician, I probably have
been able to advocate for myselfin ways that other patients
have been able to, and I havethis amazing team and other

(51:09):
opinions that provide input tomy care, so I'm really fortunate
.

Larry Shea (51:15):
You just touched on it there.
The idea of is it a blessing ora curse that you know so much
about the human body as aphysician do you grapple with.
That Is ignorance, bliss.
Do you wish you knew less alittle bit about your condition
or about what's happening withyour body?

That's a good question.
One of the treatments that havebeen offered to me from day one
of my diagnosis was radiation,and I'd seen some of the
terrible side effects ofradiation how it can harm the
intestines and the bladder andthe skin and I was deathly
afraid of it and I never wouldconsider it as an initial

(51:52):
treatment.
Because of that and my teamknew that for the longest time,
it was something I was neverwilling to consider.
I'd gone through two hugesurgeries, I've gone through
multiple rounds of chemotherapy,but recently, this past March,
it came up again as we'd beentalking about it for the six
months prior, like maybe my nextbest thing, and I got wrapped

(52:13):
my head around it and finallyrealized that I was going to
take the plunge and they wereable to provide that service in
a way that made me comfortable.
So that's probably a greatexample of I knew too much and I
also might not have known theright things, but again my team
couldn't tell me that this wasguaranteed to make a difference.
Turns out seems to have providedsome benefit, which is great,

(52:35):
but I was really.
I was scared.
I didn't know what to expect.
Provided some benefit, which isgreat, but I was really, I was
scared.
I didn't know what to expect.
So I think that's one of thesituations where you know a
little too much and I had toengage my team and multiple
opinions to get my head aroundit.
It took a while.

There's a certain amount of service to what
you're doing, right?
I mean, your whole life hasessentially been about service,
whether it be service to yourcommunity, now, obviously,
service to your patients.
As a doctor In this sense,since your cancer is so rare and
unknown, do you take a certainamount of solace in the idea
that you know the treatmentsthat are happening to you?
There's service in that,because obviously this will

(53:15):
teach others who may eventuallyhave the similar type of cancer
that you have that there is aroadmap.

That's a really great point, tushar.
So I recognize that things thathave happened to me may benefit
others.
Interestingly, when I wasmeeting with my oncologist a few
weeks ago and I said what's new?
Because I hadn't asked him thatin a while, and he's well,
we're looking at new things.
In fact, your humor is part ofthat study, which is weird to

(53:42):
think that they still have likepieces of me that they're
studying.
One of the coolest experiencesthat I had, and Larry was part
of, is my initial treatment forthis cancer was I was part of a
clinical trial.
There was this new drug outthere that was specific to my
condition, that I met thecriteria to be part of this

(54:04):
trial.
So it wasn't available to thepublic yet, but it was what was
called a phase three trial.
It's already been tested.
They know the right dose andnow they're trying to figure out
its true effects on a tumor andthe thought was it might be
able to shrink this tumor.
So they said that the sideeffects seemed to be low.
Did I want to give it a try?
And my team seemed to say thatthis was not crazy.

(54:26):
I could try it for a few months, get scanned again and lo and
behold, I tried it, I toleratedit really well and my tumor
shrunk Fast forward, maybe ayear or two later, as this drug
is finally about to come ontomarket, and I was invited to the
company's headquarters inBoston to speak to the team who

(54:46):
had created the drug and wasworking on the drug to tell them
my story, because I was kind ofpatient number one.
I was one of the first patientsto use this as an initial
treatment for my cancer.
I get emotional just thinkingabout it.
I mean it was such an emotionalday just to meet the
researchers who had thoughtabout this drug, created this

(55:10):
drug, done the trials on thisdrug, and speak to them and
share with them why their workwas so important, because they
needed to see what they weredoing was making such a big
difference.

And having been there with you, there literally
wasn't a dry eye in the room,not one dry eye.

I talked about my life, growing up and wanting to
be a physician.
The one joke I didn't tell youguys is.
Everyone always asked me likewhy didn't go into dentistry?
And I was like I didn't tellyou guys is.
Everyone always asked me likewhy didn't go into dentistry?
And I was like, well, I didn'tlike the fact that my dad worked
in a deep dark hole and I said,man, I'd be in a college, but a
bum Q Ripshot.
Yeah, I told them that story andI was just like sharing my

(55:51):
story and how what they did hadbeen hopefully life-saving for
me.
And in fact, I had my surgeryand I ended up going back on the
drug for another two years orso and subsequently, Larry and I
went out to the company thatwas actually producing the pills
and met that team and that wasreally, really cool.
And at that point, as I sharedwith that company where my life

(56:12):
and where I'd been and howthey'd been so instrumental in
treating my cancer, we alsoshared with them that we were
pregnant, which is really cool.
At the time we were 18 weekspregnant.
I couldn't carry, just based onall that I'd been through, and
so we had a surrogate and again,it was just, I think, really

(56:33):
inspiring for those people tosee the good in what they did.
So I don't think a typicalpatient would have had these
experiences.
I think, being a physician andthe doctors who have been part
of my care since day one werethe ones running the clinical
trials I mean, they got meaccess to these two engagements.

(56:53):
Those were really really coolexperiences.

I will simply say that Wonder Woman ain't got
nothing on you.
You are the real Wonder Womanout there.
My God, it's ridiculous.
Yeah, yeah, and Sam, you needto kiss this woman's feet every
day.
She should have done better.
She can do better.
Beth, what's it like to be, Iguess, now what six, seven years
running now One of the topdoctors in New York?

(57:18):
The country, the country pardonme, Considering what you are
going through as well tomaintain that level of
excellence.

I don't have a tissue, I have a mask.
Perfect.

For those listening on radio or on audio.
Beth is wiping her eyes with asurgical mask right now.

Improvisation at its best.
What was your question?

What's it like to be awesome?

Well, I was going to say, it all depends on how
much stake you put in thosesurveys.
I mean, some of those surveysdo have some merit because it's
doctors nominating other doctors.
Merit because it's doctorsnominating other doctors.
I get some of these I think arenot exactly as meritorious as
impressive some of theseaccolades, but it is cool that

(58:08):
I've been recipient of some ofthese awards and I'm far from
the only one of my colleagueswho has been your journey is
remarkable.

Larry Shea (58:17):
I do want to inform you, though, that the way you
feel about the people who helpedyou, I'm sure your patients
feel about you, so that's a fact.
While you're going through this, this career journey, your
struggle with cancer, et cetera,I mean, do you take time to
consider your legacy and howmuch you're helping people and

(58:38):
the impact that you're making inthe world?
I mean, it's remarkable.

I definitely hear it from some patients.
I hear it from some of myadolescent patients who, as
they're moving on to an adultprovider, there are hugs and we
reminisce about how long I'veknown them.
I hear it from my patients frommy fertility practice who I've
helped get pregnant and helpedthem build their family in a
special way.
One of the coolest things thathas happened a few times is I've

(59:06):
had some students eitherwriting essays for college or
for medical school about theimpact that our relationship has
had on them.
That's something I'm so proud of.
When I step back from the grindof oh my God, I'm 20 notes in
the hole and I don't know whenI'm gonna get this done.
But when I step back from thegrind of long days and catching

(59:33):
up and all the nitty gritty likethe not so glamorous parts of
being a physician I have thebest job in the world and it's
really what drives me.
It makes the work worth it.
I've always been proud of thecare I provide and the job that
I have, and I'm very honored tointeract with people at such an

(59:55):
important time in their livesand to make it an impact.
That's how I want to beremembered.

Tushar Saxena (01:00:00):
For anyone else out there who wants to have the
best job in the world, like you.
What is that piece of adviceyou want to give?
Is there one piece of advice ormultiple pieces of advice you
want to give to someone whowants to have the best job in
the world?

Beth Rackow (01:00:12):
I will say, like one of my friends has always
said, that I'm the happiestdoctor he knows, and that just
is.
That is me.
There's highs and lows of beinga physician.
For sure, that's a very ancientsaying be happy in your work.
My pointers for others areyou're going to have to work
hard for this career, but toavoid tunnel vision and avoid

(01:00:35):
pigeonholing yourself and allowyourself to experience other
things and allow yourself tohave more than one passion in
life, because I think itenhances your life and the
career person that you're goingto become.
I think mentorship is key,because that has clearly been
critical for me every step alongthe way, and I think it's

(01:00:58):
important to understand the good, the bad, the ugly of what
you're getting into, becauseevery part of medicine has the
highs, the lows, and you have tobe able to tolerate the best of
days and the worst of days.

Larry Samuels (01:01:31):
And I think working through that thought
process is really important andI do want to bring up that it's
always a great satisfaction forme when I see the parents, in
particular, of your patients,and I see the way that they look
at you and I can see that thedifference that you're making in
their families lives, and it'struly one of the most remarkable

(01:02:00):
things that I've ever seen.
So you know, with that, beth, Ithink this is a good place to
say thank you for coming with ustoday on this journey and
sharing all of this with us andreally being so open and honest
in telling your story.

Beth Rackow (01:02:11):
Thank you for having me.
It's been a great experience.
I admire so much what you guysdo on this podcast and I'm just
honored to be part of it.

So that was Dr Beth Rakow, obviously a story
that I'm quite familiar with.
So, guys, why don't you give meyour thoughts?
Tushar, please lead us in.

Tushar Saxena (01:02:30):
Sam, I've said it before about your wife and I'll
say it again she's an absolutesuperhero.
Beth's path to become one ofthe best doctors in her field is
unconventional.
Right, she was pulled off thewait list for going to medical
school.
She was rejected from a lot ofmedical schools and she didn't
let that get her down.
She had a singular focusbecause in many ways it was

(01:02:53):
because of her upbringing.
Right, she wanted to go intothe family business of being a
health caregiver, her fatherbeing a doctor, being a dentist.
She's just amazing when you hearher story.
It's unconventional in the factthat you know she did take time
off to work in the ForestService.
She would have been successfulat whatever she did.
She could have gone into law,as she had mentioned.
I mean, obviously she wouldhave been successful in whatever

(01:03:14):
job, whatever career she chose,because she's so driven and
focused.
But I'd say, at the end of theday, it's not so much that but
it's her ability to overcome andher singular focus which has
allowed that.
It got very heavy and veryintense when we started talking
about cancer.
This is obviously a subjectthat we have known for years.

(01:03:36):
We don't talk about it a greatdeal For her to have gone what
she is going through mean it'snot she's not done with it yet.
What she's going through and tocome out on the other side
stronger, it's just amazing.
I mean, she's such a wonderfulwife, wonderful woman, wonderful
mother.
I am in awe of her at all times.
I mean, you hit the jackpot,sam.

(01:03:57):
That part is for sure, and I'llsay it again she is an absolute
superhero.
What do you think, shay?

Larry Shea (01:04:02):
I love that you used the word superhero because I
literally wrote that in my notes.
You know, I think most doctorsare superheroes.
But then you hear Beth's storyand it just takes it to a whole
nother level.
I mean really impressive.
Wonder Woman's got nothing onher.

(01:04:25):
Super impressive.
I was also taken with the rolethat athletics played in her
life.
Early on she said she loves tobe on a team, she's competitive,
she's driven, and this reallykind of set her up for her
career journey and a life ofwinning.
Basically so super impressive,the way that played such a vital
part of her life.
You know and we did talk aboutthis as well T I'm squeamish,
you know.

(01:04:45):
So this is, this is not a jobfor everybody, but, um, you know
, I couldn't imagine the levelof joy that she must get,
changing people's lives everysingle day.
You know the amount ofdedication and service and she
wants to help people and it'sjust so admirable.
And we can't thank her enoughfor sharing her story because

(01:05:06):
it's a remarkable one.

You know, larry, you use the perfect word to sum
up what Beth does, and that wordwas joy.
You know, beth is a person whotackles each day with such
desire I don't know if ambitionis the right word Passion and
just this incredible attitudethat makes the work that she

(01:05:29):
does feel like something beyondwork.
You know, people have jobs andcareers, et cetera, et cetera,
but what Beth does is somethingcompletely different.
You know, this is a person whoputs in 12-hour days without
even blinking and it doesn'tfeel like work to her.
This is passion, a calling andbeyond.
So what I see her do day in andday out is just truly

(01:05:53):
remarkable.
And then, in terms of her healthstuff, you know she's been
fighting cancer for close to 10years and she has shown and
demonstrated a strength that Ididn't really know existed
within people.
I mean, she's been throughsurgery and chemo and all these
other things and she's neverallowed it to get her down.

(01:06:14):
She's gone to chemo on Fridayand she's gone back to work on
Monday and I ask how she is andthe response is I'm fine, I'm
good, and she just keeps going.
It's truly, truly incredible.
So you know, for any youngdoctor out there, hopefully,
this conversation has shown youa little bit in terms of what it
takes to get to that next leveland you can pull some great

(01:06:36):
advice and some great nuggetsout of this and beyond that,
just from, you know, a humaninterest aspect, or just from a
human standpoint, beth should be, you know, truly an inspiration
to anyone out there who has abattle in front of them that
they need to get through.
Well, know that you can do it,and a lot of it depends upon

(01:06:57):
your attitude and yourperseverance and your
perspective on things.
And what Beth has shown me dayin and day out over this past
you know however many years hastruly blown my mind.
So, you know, with that, beth,I've been asking you for a long
time to break down and join theshow.
You finally did it today.

(01:07:17):
I thank you so much foragreeing to come on with us.
Your story is certainlyremarkable.
We also thank you for joiningus.
If this episode made you thinkof someone who could be a great
guest, please send us a notethrough the contact page of our
website at norongchoicescom.
While you're there, pleasecheck out our blog for a deeper

(01:07:39):
look into each of our guests andepisodes, as mentioned at the
start.
Don't forget to like and followus on your favorite podcast
platform and to connect with uson social media.
You can find us on LinkedIn,instagram, facebook, youtube,
tiktok and X.
Your support helps us to keepbringing these incredible
stories to life.
On behalf of Larry Shea TusharSaxena and me, larry Samuels,

(01:08:04):
thank you again for joining us.
We'll be back next week withanother inspiring episode of no
Wrong Choices.

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