From Headlines to Heroes with Comic Book Writer Ethan Sacks

Step into the imaginative world of comic books with our latest episode, where we uncover the transformative tale of Ethan Sacks—from crafting headlines to conjuring heroes. Known for his riveting contributions to some of Marvel's classic heroes and the Star Wars canon, Ethan's evolution from a veteran journalist to a master comic book writer is nothing short of extraordinary.

What You'll Learn:

• Dive deep into the nuanced art of creating comics.
• Gain insight into the delicate dance of negotiating with publishers and keeping storylines consistent in an epic world like Star Wars.
• Discover tried-and-true methods for breaking through writer's block, and understand the crucial roles of marketing and fan interaction in the success of comic book writing.

In this candid conversation, Ethan shares the genesis of "A Haunted Girl," a project close to his heart, born from his daughter's brave fight against depression. This series sheds light on the emotional and healing power of collaboration. Additionally, Ethan provides a candid look at the economics of comic book writing, the benefits of self-publishing, and the industry's shift toward the digital age.

This episode stands as a tribute to the enduring influence of creativity and dedication, illustrating their ability to unlock new and satisfying paths in the dynamic realm of comics. For those embarking on their professional journeys or contemplating a new direction, this episode is packed with strategic advice and motivational anecdotes that will illuminate your way.

To discover more episodes or connect with us:

• website: https://www.nowrongchoices.com/
• instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nowrongchoicespod/
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/no-wrong-choices-podcast/
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@nowrongchoices
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100086704773105

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hello and welcome to no Wrong Choices, the podcast
that explores the careerjourneys of accomplished people.
We showcase these stories toprovide insights that are
strategic, inspiring and, mostof all, entertaining.
I'm Larry Samuel, soon to bejoined by the other fellows,
tushar Saxena and Larry Shea.
If you've been enjoying ourshow or are new to the program,
please support no Wrong Choicesby following us wherever you're

(00:25):
listening right now and bygiving us a five-star rating.
We also encourage you toconnect with us on LinkedIn,
facebook, instagram Threads andX, or to send us a note by
anoerongchoicescom.
This episode features thejournalist turned comic book
writer, ethan Sax.
Ethan has worked on severalbest-selling series, including
Marvel's Old man, hawkeye, starWars, bounty Hunters and Star

(00:49):
Wars Galaxy's Edge.
He's also deeply involved withan important project called A
Haunted Girl that we willcertainly dig into Now.
I think the intro and the setupfor this one is easy for me to
choose in terms of my co-hosts.
Tushar, as the comic bookfanatic on this show and in my

(01:10):
life, I think you have to be theperson to lead us in.

Speaker 2 (01:14):
I prefer to go by comic aficionado, if you don't
mind.
Look, you guys know me.
I'm a huge comic book nut.
I go out on Wednesdays to buynew books.
I've been collecting for, Iwould say, at least 25 to 30
years at this point.
So I've been collecting a longtime.

(01:35):
I've gotten to know how a lotof writers are in terms of their
styles, etc.
But I've never had theopportunity to really sit down
and pick the brain of one,especially one who turned from
journalist to comic book writer,which is basically my dream,
for God's sakes.
My first question to him has tobe why did my guidance

(01:56):
counselor tell me this could bea thing?
So, I'm really looking forwardto speaking to Ethan for this
reason alone, because obviouslywe're talking about the creative
process here, and this is a manwho obviously enjoys writing
for a living.
Obviously, he was a journalistwho turned comic book writer.
In many ways, the journey isvery similar.
I'm also a Star Wars nut.

(02:17):
A lot of the books he works onare Star Wars in that genre.
So he's not really reinventingthe wheel so much.
He is just making a bettermousetrap, which is really,
really cool.

Speaker 3 (02:27):
Larry Samuels, how many of our Wednesday recording
sessions have ended with allright, you guys?
I gotta go to the comic bookstore, oh.

Speaker 1 (02:32):
I gotta go.
He's in a hurry.
He's got a guy.
I gotta go.

Speaker 2 (02:34):
I got something to do .

Speaker 3 (02:37):
Oh my God, yeah.
So, as the guy who knowsnothing about comic books, it
was fascinating.

Speaker 1 (02:42):
The other guy who knows nothing about comic books?
Yeah, the other guy.

Speaker 3 (02:44):
That's right.
That's right.
It was fun to do the research,though, to figure out like oh my
God, like so much goes intothis and the creative process,
and how difficult it is to bringsomething like this to life and
to choose it as a career path.
I mean, I'm fascinated to hearwhat he has to say about getting
a paycheck every week or doingfreelance work, and how you find

(03:04):
your way in this field and howit can happen.
So just what goes into it wasfascinating to me, and I'm
excited to pick Ethan's brainand see if we can get some other
people on this path and thisroad to success via comic books
who knew and you know, as theother guy again who knows
nothing about comic books.

Speaker 2 (03:23):
You need to get in.
I'm really curious.
I'm really curious to get in.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (03:27):
This is going to be a very educational episode for
each of us.
I'm very curious to hear whatit takes to actually create a
comic book, and I'm sure we'lldig into that at some point.
So with that, here is Ethan Sax.
Ethan, thank you so much forjoining us.
I'm happy to be here.
Thanks for the invite.

Speaker 2 (03:46):
Okay, so Ethan and full disclosure to everybody.
I got to know Ethan just alittle bit through a mutual
friend of ours who actuallyhappens to be a fan of the
podcast Gentlemen named DaveRican.
He and I went to collegetogether and you know, dave,
through what?
Through high school.

Speaker 4 (04:04):
So my friend Paul, someone else you knew from
college, paul Palkonen, whounfortunately passed away a few
years ago, he introduced me toDave.
Dave is now a member of ourfantasy football league and
fortunately I'm the only wellhe's the only team that's below
me in the standings right now.

Speaker 2 (04:23):
So I kind of want to ask you a little bit, because
obviously the story of goingfrom journalists to comic books
is surprising.
But before we get into that, Ikind of want to get into a
little bit of what you're doingcurrently, and obviously we just
mentioned that you are a comicbook writer.
So what is what is Ethan Saxworking on these days, aside
from his series A Haunted GirlSure?

Speaker 4 (04:47):
And the projects that I can tell you about.
I'm doing an upcoming Star Warscomic book about Django Fett,
Boba Fett's father from theprequel trilogy, and I'm trying
to, in my head as I'm sayingthis, remember what has and
hasn't been announced yet.
So there are currently threeother comics that I'm working on

(05:11):
that have not been announced.
So, unfortunately, all I cansay is is the Django Fett one.

Speaker 2 (05:18):
So is are they all Star Wars related or are they
other DC related things related?
Okay, at least tell us thecompanies you're working with.

Speaker 4 (05:25):
Sure One, I can't tell you I'm doing another image
comic.
I can't say that, I can't saywhat it is and I'm unfortunately
I can't say the others.

Speaker 1 (05:35):
Okay, All right I love content that's cloaked in
secrecy Exactly.

Speaker 4 (05:40):
Exactly the World Recordist podcast episode.
I probably can talk more aboutother things.

Speaker 2 (05:46):
So what is this book you're writing?
I can't talk about that.
Can't talk about that.

Speaker 3 (05:50):
All right, but let's okay, so let's start here then.
Was it always going to be comicbooks Ultimately?
Was that your fascination?
No, okay, I mean I always lovedcomic books.

Speaker 4 (05:59):
It just seemed like you know the kind of job like
Kepler, elf or Askernaut, wherenobody actually has that job,
you know, like if you wanted tobe one, how do you even begin?
You know, I mean, I know thereare such things, there are such
things as astronauts, so, but asfar as comic book writing, it
just didn't even, it was noteven on my radar.

(06:20):
I knew I always wanted to dowriting and my parents raised a
fairly pragmatic kid, so I earlyon zeroed into onto journalism
because that seemed likesomething that I could do.
You know, in theory.

Speaker 1 (06:36):
So how did you, how did you act on that?
Like?
Were you a storyteller as a kid?
Were you writing as a kid?
Like how did you begin topursue that?

Speaker 4 (06:44):
I mean I abroad a lot as a kid, mostly fiction.
As I got older, and certainlyby college level, I was, you
know, in high school I was moreinto like the science fiction
magazine.
But I got.
I got to really experiencenewspapers at the school
newspaper and university, atMcGill in Montreal, and I fell

(07:05):
in love with it and that sort ofyou know.
I did internships on my summersoff for some local community
papers, the kind of papers thatthey give out in lobbies so that
you can curb your dog or readcommunity news, whichever is
like more convenient.
I came out, I taught Englishand Japan for a year and then
after that it was perfect timing.

(07:28):
The internet was just sort oftaking off and I got hired
pretty quickly, first at thisstartup called Metropy which
became City Search, and thenwithin nine months the New York
Daily News was was hiring fortheir website, and this was in
October 1996.
My first practice, my firsttrial shift, was such a horror

(07:50):
show for me.
Like I was an overnight shift,I got out of the 8am.
I swore to myself I need to, Ineed to give this six months and
get the hell out of here, youknow, just to get the experience
of my resume and I ended upstaying 20 years.
Wow, yeah so, but in that 20years I covered a lot of
everything from news, sports and, ultimately, entertainment, and

(08:11):
one of the things I covered wascomic books, since I was the
reporter that actually caredabout this stuff, and it was
like you know, marvel was havingthis resurgence in the early
2000s and comic movies a fewyears later started coming
around, and then things like the, eventually, the Walking Dead,
game of Thrones I got kind ofcovered all of that and I don't

(08:34):
know how much you want me to gointo this now, but that sort of
started it.
Basically it led to my comicbook career, which I can get
into later if you want.

Speaker 2 (08:44):
Which we're actually going to talk a little bit.
We don't have to wait, we canget to it right now.
So so okay.
So you spent 20 years at theDaily News and obviously you
know I think it's not, it's nota secret that for many
newspapers readership is down.
It's been down significantly,and you know most newsrooms have
started to cull or have startedto let go of staff etc.

(09:06):
At the at its height, when youwere there in 1996 and maybe a
little bit further, how manyreporters were working over at
the Daily News when you werethere?

Speaker 4 (09:16):
So when I was hired, it was about 450 reporters,
photographers.
Now it's somewhere around 50.
Wow, Wow right.
And that led to my leavingultimately journalism, because I
was in my low 40s at that pointI think it was around 42, 43.
And every year we were havingthese layoffs and, like my

(09:39):
mentors, were getting laid offand I knew it was one day it was
going to be me.
The analogy I always used is itwas like we were antelope or
something in the Serengetiaround a watering hole and every
once in a while, you know, acrocodile would come up and eat
several antelope and we'd scurrybut we'd have to come back.
That was the watering hole weall lived around and that was

(10:01):
what it was like to be injournalism.
Like you knew, one day you'dget eaten.
I was looking for other jobs.
I just couldn't find anything.
That either would take me Likethere were places I applied for
that took people I trained thatwere like 10 years younger than
me, or the other thing that washappening is the jobs I was
getting offered were like 25,$30,000 less than what I was

(10:23):
making, and I wasn't thinkingthat much that that was like you
know.
So yeah, and I remember the yearbefore I left, there were like
50 people were laid off withinthree days and I missed the
first day.
And then the editor in chief atthe time calls me into his
office and he's given and Ithought for sure, like okay, I'm
laid off.
And he's 10 minutes into thisdoom and gloom speech about how

(10:47):
these cuts are necessary to keepthe daily news functioning and
all this kind of stuff.
And then it's incumbent on allof us to, like you know, do this
extra work or whatever to keepit going.
And then I was like I thoughtyou were laying me off.

Speaker 1 (10:59):
Does that mean I'm not laid off?

Speaker 4 (11:00):
Yeah, I know, and he offended and he's like no, this
is a pep talk, Like the layoffsare happening.

Speaker 3 (11:06):
two doors down and three floors.

Speaker 4 (11:10):
That's pretty much what I knew is like I have to
leave, or I mean I'll leaveeither way, you know.
But yeah, so that was a peptalk.

Speaker 2 (11:18):
The strangest pep talk you'll ever have.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (11:20):
You're fired.

Speaker 2 (11:22):
So you got to work triple as hard.

Speaker 3 (11:23):
Absolutely Right.

Speaker 4 (11:25):
Pretty much.

Speaker 3 (11:26):
That was the tone of the speech Before you move on
from the daily news, New Yorkdaily news stuff.
I mean, what was the heyday ofthat Like?
What was a typical day likethere?
Because you go from what you'rein college and McGill you set
up in Montreal and then you comedown into how did you get the
daily news job and what was thatlike?
Daily, as you like, did youpick your projects?
Were?

Speaker 4 (11:46):
you.
Eventually I had a lot offreedom over what, because, like
, by the end of my tenure there,I was the movies editor and I
did a lot of you know, like thecelebrity interviews with
directors, actors, things likethat.
I did theme weeks where, like,I flew out to LA, interviewed
like the cast of the Avengers,and we have like a different
story every day.
Probably the highlight for twohighlights for me is on that

(12:09):
front was like I got to go toNew Zealand to cover the Hobbit
and I did performance capturewith my daughter oh my God,
awesome.
And Terry, who is the Oscarwinning effects guy, was like
directing us and you know Iwould share the photo but you
don't want to see me in thatlight suit with all the you know
the dots on it.

(12:29):
But it was just a fantasticexperience.
And then the other thing I'mproudest of was I got to start a
little charity initiative wherethe daily news was sort of the
media partner.
I would find children'scharities that sort of were
thematically related to like,for example, the Avengers movies
.
The studio would sort of rentthe theater, host a screening,

(12:51):
or the Marvel movies rather, andthen they'd fly in like one of
the actors to surprise the kids.
So I had, like Robert Downey Jrtwice oh wow, chris Evans, and
it was just really a moving to.
You know, it was drawingattention to these charities.
It was.
The actors loved it becausethey, you know, felt like they
were doing something good.
The studio loved it because itwas like great publicity for

(13:14):
them.
The newspaper loved it and itwas just like it didn't cost
anybody except the studio, therental.
You know what I mean.
So it was, and then hopefullywe raised awareness and maybe
some donations for the.
So, like I was proud of that, wedid like seven or eight of
those.
I actually did one for theToday Show as well when I went
to NBC News for a bit.
Yeah, so I did a lot of thingsI loved and I love journalism.

(13:40):
I also did a lot of newsstories I think were of some
importance, like local newsstories about scholarship,
helping raise money forscholarship, all sorts of things
over the 20 years.
So I didn't leave necessarilybecause I was disaffected with

(14:01):
the idea of the job, it's just.
The reality was just veryunstable.
The ground was unstable beneathmy feet and I stumbled into
comics.

Speaker 2 (14:10):
Right, right, I kind of want to stick one.
I want to say one more secondon journalism, maybe two, but
for the moment let me say thisdid you now, obviously you said
when you started there I guessit was in 1996, I was only going
to be there for six months puton my resume and get out, and
you ended up staying for 20years?
So outside of, let's say andyou kind of just made mention of
this too outside of, let's say,the charity work that you were

(14:34):
able to kind of be a part of andget started on your way, and
obviously being there for 20years means that you moved up
the ladder as well in terms ofyour own importance within the
Daily News.
Did you feel that, that type ofimportance of the job as well
and I think that was a very,very important story but that

(14:54):
the job in and of itself wasimportant?

Speaker 4 (14:57):
Was that what attracted you to stay for 20
years?
For sure I mean.
So, growing up, my father was aNew York Times reader.
My mother was a New York DailyNews reader, so it was the paper
and it was the paper that Ifirst I started with the sports
section, but as I got older Iread more of it and I am
somebody who very much believesin the importance of journalism

(15:18):
and certainly we see that a lotnow More than ever.
Right, yeah, it's a separatetopic as to whether or not
outlets are doing enough orproperly or whatever, but I
definitely I also, like, duringmy 20 years from 2003 to 2005, I

(15:39):
actually did a mid-careerpart-time run at Columbia School
of Journalism.
So I was very, I deeply believein the importance of it and so,
yeah, I mean that wasdefinitely one of the reasons I
stayed.
At various times I was like thenumber two person on the

(16:00):
website in charge of breakingnews and things like that.
So I had my moments where Ifeel like I did that role.

Speaker 3 (16:09):
So in a comic book theme there's literally an
alternate universe where, if theground wasn't coming out
beneath you, you would havestayed in journalism For sure,
for sure.

Speaker 4 (16:20):
I think now I have like one toe dipped in that
world.
I still work very, verypart-time for NBC News Now,
mainly doing obituaries, butyeah, so like when I left.

Speaker 1 (16:33):
It's a gig.
It's a gig, no, it's a gig.

Speaker 4 (16:35):
I love it.
It's their mini biographies.

Speaker 2 (16:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (16:39):
It's weird because I'll write them and then like
four, five, six, seven, eight,and it's usually a celebrity or
public figure that is, you know,old or has a series of health
problems Like I've.
You know, when Bob Barker died,the obituary came out and I was
like, oh, that looks familiar.

Speaker 2 (16:57):
And I'd forgotten that I had written it because I,
oh jeez, I was like four years.
Whoever wrote this was a genius, Absolutely.

Speaker 4 (17:04):
I never see the good.
I critique my own writing.

Speaker 1 (17:09):
Well, I think any professional does that.
No matter what they do, they'regoing to critique everything.
So, ethan, as you're working atthe Daily News and you're
working, the beat that youworked for so long from an
entertainment standpoint is thatwhen you started to develop the
network, that puts you in aposition to cross over.

Speaker 4 (17:29):
Inadvertently.
Yes, I mean, I was notanticipating that, you know I
you work long enough on acertain beat and you just get a
million contacts, you know, justover time.
And actually one of thosecontacts was this guy, joe
Cassata, who became a friendover the years.
He was like one of my first bigfeature stories because it was
when the first Spider-Man moviewas coming out in 2002, marvel

(17:52):
was just emerging frombankruptcy and one of the
creative reasons that they weresort of, you know, coming back
into the sort of the peak of theindustry was these two people.
The publisher was Bill Jemezand the editor chief at the time
was Joe Cassata, who was thishot shot comic book artist who,

(18:15):
long story short, had been giventhis role and really ran with
it.
And so I become friends withhim over the years, and that
inadvertently and I can get intothat story if you're ready for
it.

Speaker 2 (18:28):
Yes, this is exactly what we're going to go next,
that is the show.

Speaker 4 (18:30):
Yes, okay, so what happened was in 2016 for May the
fourth, which is that fake.

Speaker 2 (18:40):
Yeah, the fourth star with you, absolutely Exactly.

Speaker 4 (18:43):
May the fourth be with you.
So I always would do an onlinestory for the daily news every
year on a Star Wars thing,because I'm a nerd.
And this particular year therewas this actor, paul Blake, who
played Greedo, the green bountyhunter that is doomed to be
killed by Han Solo in theCantina in the first Star Wars
Spoiler alert.

Speaker 1 (19:03):
Yes, spoiler alert, spoiler alert I haven't seen
this movie in more than 50 years.
We'll have to edit in a bigyeah, so.

Speaker 4 (19:12):
So I'm old enough, because I'm 50, and I was four
years old when the movieoriginally came out, and I
remember seeing it that Han Solojust unceremoniously shoots
Greedo under the table and soyeah, there is a spoiler alert,
because there are going to be alot of kids that have no idea
what you're talking about.
But it's surely afterwardsGeorge Lucas decided that's like

(19:34):
not really heroic enough, youknow, even though it's, it was
perfect.

Speaker 2 (19:39):
Perfect to the character Right.

Speaker 4 (19:40):
So then he has Hans, he has Greedo shoot first,
somehow miss and Han Solo shootin the subsequent edits.
So I don't know why, but when Iwas talking to Paul Blake he
was so funny, it was like astandup comedian.
It was talking about Greedo'sbulging eyes and being myopic
and being unable to you know hewas talking, you know, just say

(20:01):
you just had one line afteranother.
But he did say in the script itsays Han shoots alien.
So I don't know why it stuckwith me and I had this.
I just couldn't let it go and Ihad this idea It'd be funny to
see the murder investigation,but framed like Rashomon, like
the Kurosawa classic, which isbased on a Japanese novel, and

(20:22):
for those listeners out there wedon't know what I'm talking
about.
It's a very classic movie byJapanese director Kurosawa, who
basically it's a murder story infeudal Japan that is told
through the accounts of fourwitnesses and none of them match
, the fourth witness being theghost of the murder.

(20:43):
None of the accounts exactlymatch up and I thought it'd be
funny, because these accountsdon't match up, to have the
murder investigation into it.
So then I was at a Mets gameshortly thereafter With Joe, who
is a big Mets fan and he wouldfrequently take his friends to
games, and I was like, hey, Ihave this idea for a story I
cannot get out of my head.

(21:03):
I think it's funny.
That's the only reason I wantto do it.
Can I pitch a script to youguys?
If you don't use it, I mean ifyou, if you use it, I'll just
donate the money to charity orwhatever.
And I'll be upfront about it,because, because I'm a reporter
and you know, and he was likefine, whatever, it was not
enthusiastic at all.

Speaker 2 (21:21):
Right, it was a really whatever dude yeah.

Speaker 4 (21:24):
And so then I got, I took it seriously and I never in
a comic book script, neverthought about writing a comic
book script, but I'd read somany and I reverse engineered
the, the ones I liked, thepacing and the structure and all
this kind of stuff.
And I had contacts in Lucasfilmpublicity, so I somehow use
them to get a hold of PabloHidalgo, who was one of the

(21:45):
people on the story group thatsort of is essentially like air
traffic controller for the canon, the mythology so and he very
much said Greedo has to shootfirst.
That's what, that's what Georgewanted, kind of thing.
So I ended up use putting thisall together, putting together a
script, sending it by email andnot hearing anything for a

(22:05):
while, like for months.
So I thought, okay, well, hemust really have hated it.
And then I fly to Japan my, mywife's, japanese, so we were
visiting my in-laws.
The plane lands back at JFK onSeptember 7th 2016.
And I know the date becausethat is really the date that
changed my life.
Obviously, right, I turn on myphone and there's an email from

(22:29):
from Joe, and the subject lineis F Greedo, since this is a
family podcast, and so I, beforereading the email.
I was like wow, he really hatedit.
But the gist of it was F Greedo,you can actually write and I'm
angry that I've known you for 20years and this is like the
first like I put this together,kind of thing and I think you

(22:49):
could do this for a living and along story short.
He started the ball and he wasno longer editor-in-chief at
that time, he was chief creativeofficer, so he was not like
directly involved with thecomics, but he put me in touch
with the then currenteditor-in-chief, axel Anzo, who
also love the script.
They started the ball rollingand about in November of that

(23:12):
year the Daily News announced,instead of another batch of
layoffs, the annualpre-Christmas layoffs.
They were going to do buyouts.
So I've been there 20 years andthat was seven months pay.
So like, if you're going to doa career change, yeah for sure.

Speaker 2 (23:29):
The runway is right yeah.

Speaker 4 (23:32):
So so I applied for the layout for the buyout and
they rejected it Because at thattime it laid off all the other
people that could get thecelebrity interviews, and so I
was like the last one left, ohgeez.

Speaker 1 (23:47):
So irreplaceable, the one person who's irreplaceable?
Well, for now.

Speaker 2 (23:53):
You're the one who survives the purge right, yeah.

Speaker 4 (23:56):
So I broke her to deal with them, like I would
stay till the end of the year,train up somebody else like help
, you know.
And so like I got my protegeready and he was like mostly
ready anyway, and then I left itand I got a part-time gig,
first for todaycom and then foreventually, for NBC News, so
that to help, because you'reessentially a freelancer when

(24:18):
you jump into the comic bookworld and it's not high paying,
so you know I've got to keepmultiple things going.
But yeah, and the rest is sortof history.

Speaker 2 (24:28):
When you said you reverse engineered writing a
comic book script, what weresome of the things that you
keyed in on and what were someof the key elements that it
takes to write a comic bookscript?

Speaker 4 (24:40):
Well, for starters, I needed to like look at scripts
for some of the comics that Iloved and just see how they were
put together.
You know, what were some of thebooks you loved?
Say again.

Speaker 2 (24:50):
What was some of the books for the?

Speaker 4 (24:51):
Well, I mean, I love a lot of this stuff from the
that are sort of touchstonesfrom the from the 80s, which was
my heyday.
So, for example, you knowWatchman and some of the other.

Speaker 2 (25:04):
Returns anything to write.

Speaker 4 (25:05):
Yeah, and then the old alien legions, x-men, days
of Future Past is like a big one.
You know just a lot of stufflike that.
And then you know more recently, in the 90s, a lot of the
Vertigo books, and I think whatI did was I would find scripts
for some of the books that Iloved, like Sandman number 50 as

(25:28):
an example, and see, okay, well, how was this put together?
Like, what does it look like?
And then matching it to the sothat I could know how to write
it without looking stupid,because I'd never written one
before.
So I wanted to know the format,so that was key and like how the
art description works.
And then I looked at the onesthat were paced in a slightly

(25:53):
like action comedy, which wasthe tone of this particular
issue, and then also like how itwas paced, cause I think that's
a big thing, for comics is sortof pacing from page one to page
20, you know, to keep peopleinterested, you know where the
page turns are, or things likethat.
I mean, I know that we'regetting into the weeds a little
bit, but I think it was like Ididn't want to look like a

(26:13):
complete amateur when I washanding in that script, even
though I was.
So I wanted to fake it, youknow, by at least talking the
talk correctly.

Speaker 3 (26:23):
Gotcha.
Patrick, you know I'm acomplete amateur.
I'll readily admit that.
So I'm not a comic book person.
But in doing this research andlooking into your life, I was
actually shocked to learn howmany people are involved with
bringing a comic book to life,you know.
So I guess you're learning thisprocess.
Did you have to learn that?

(26:44):
I always thought that theperson who wrote the comic did
all the drawings and the wordsand the everything.
And it turns out there's acreator, a colorist, a letterer.
I mean, just tell her peoplewho listening, like me, who
don't know a thing about it, howyou're involved in it and what
else is involved in it.

Speaker 4 (27:01):
Sure, and there are some sort of writer, artists,
like do it all, type people thatin manga, japanese manga,
that's usually the case, wherethere's like one storyteller,
essentially who it's their story, but no matter what, like the
North American model is more, itsort of breaks it up a little
bit more and think of it like anassembly line.

(27:24):
So I'm the writer, I'm sort ofthe start of the assembly line.
I will start with an outlinewhich I send to.
Well, first of all, I'mcommissioned by an editor,
usually if it's short or higherand I can.
That's a whole other subject,but I will say for most of what
I do for Marvel, dc, it's workfor higher and if you don't mind

(27:44):
me taking a step back, becauseI probably should, expose it,
please sure, please yeah pleaseI will.
Just to show you how hip andyoung I am.
I'm gonna use Taylor Swift asmy metaphor.
Whatever my analogy Work forhigher you're a session musician
for Taylor Swift.
You're paying for your time inthe studio.
That song sells a billioncopies, doesn't matter, you're

(28:05):
only paid for your time in thestudio.
It's Taylor Swift song.
It's the same thing.
Work for higher work for Marvel, dc I'm paid by page for the
script.
They take a character that I'vecreated for the script and they
put it into a movie.
I don't have rights to thatcharacter.
That's theirs.
There might be some littlebonus, there might be some
royalties if you sell a certainamount, but for the most part

(28:26):
you're paid for your time in thestudio.
Creator-owned it's your tune,right, it's your like a haunted
girl, which we'll talk aboutsoon.
That is creator-owned mydaughter-.

Speaker 2 (28:37):
That's yours.

Speaker 4 (28:38):
I'm paid by the line.
It's my daughters and Marco.
The artist.
We are the co-owners of that.
So in the case of work forhigher, I'm commissioned by an
editor.
Usually it tells me hey, wewanna do this book, we'd love to
have you on it.
Can you come up with a story?
I come up with an outline topitch.
They send it back to me withnotes.

(28:59):
Once we agree on it, I startwriting the script.
There's a back and forth withthe editor and then, when the
script is ready to be sent tothe artist, it goes to an artist
who's basically an illustrator,who then will do layouts and
ultimately, you know, back andforth with the editor,

(29:21):
ultimately finished art.
Then there's a colorist who, asthe name would suggest,
supplies color, and then finallya letterer that takes the
dialogue and puts it in the wordballoons and the sound effects
and all that kind of stuff.
And then I get one last look atit for a lettering draft and
then it goes off and there's acouple of proofreaders and then

(29:41):
also there's usually a separateartist that might do some
different covers.
So North American comicsusually there's more than one
cover, or often there's morethan one cover.
So yeah, so however many numberof people are involved in that,
it's usually like-.

Speaker 3 (29:57):
That's a lot of people.

Speaker 2 (29:58):
Yeah, small army, small army.

Speaker 3 (29:59):
And so in a matter of like, let's just take, for
example, like this great Greedostory.
You know that's a Star Warsstory, so now you just pitched
that idea to them.
But obviously you needpermission to get into the Star
Wars family.
This is negotiated, right, andthen you work for Marvel.
It's probably easier becausethey own the rights, things of

(30:20):
that nature.
But when I could just pick acharacter on Star Wars and just
write a comic book about themand then it's about what
negotiating with the Star Warsempire to make it happen?

Speaker 4 (30:30):
So Marvel is the publisher of Star Wars comics,
marvel and Dark Horse.
Dark Horse is more the all agessection.
And then Marvel is like sort ofthe real and the tricky part
with Star Wars is, unlike anyother or almost any other
franchise, everything matters.
So, like, the comic book storyis part of the canon.

(30:51):
That is the same canon as thelive action and the video games
and all that, it's all part ofone big story.
So then you, the permissionsare actually very important and
actually Lucas liked the story,but they ultimately said no, so
the Greedo story was neverpublished, but I was on their
radar and eventually I did doStar Wars work.

(31:11):
And of course, lucasfilm is veryinvolved for several reasons,
like one is the quality control,but also nothing can contradict
it's canon, right there's manyprojects going on at the same
time, so they literally theyhave people whose job it is to
keep track of everything andmake sure that that doesn't
happen Is that amazing.

Speaker 3 (31:29):
They have people archiving this imaginary world.
I mean it is amazing.

Speaker 4 (31:34):
It's, you know, and everyone loves it.
That's the thing.
So it's.
It really is a labor of lovefor these people.

Speaker 1 (31:40):
I want to ask you in a second about momentum.
You know, when you started toget traction, when you started
to get picked up and when youfelt like you were really
getting into this world andbecoming an established figure.
But before I ask you thatquestion, which will be right
after this one, you know, I'mcurious because you talked about
the process of creating thecomic and the colorist, et

(32:02):
cetera, et cetera.
What happens afterwards,meaning as the writer, with
things like Comic Con, et cetera, et cetera?
You know, is there anexpectation that you are going
to be part of the marketingprocess and that you are going
to be in the spotlight after therelease?

Speaker 4 (32:20):
Yes, there is because you know, I mean it's an
important part of your job.
I, as of now and I'm going toexpand it a little bit more I go
to no matter what twoconventions of your Star Wars
celebration and your Comic Con.
I'm not at this, it's very rarethat I get flown into a
convention, so those are on myown time.

(32:42):
So that's why I'm a littlelimited.
But now that I have my owncreator-owned comic to sort of,
you know, help spread the wordon, you know, like I just did in
a 11 city signing tour Well,actually I have two more cities
within that left to go nextmonth, but for a haunted girl
and that's all you know, on myown dime, to help, you know, get

(33:06):
attention, to encourage fans,that kind of thing.
So, yeah, it is part of a thingyou know.
I certainly do that for my StarWars comics.
You know, for the few DCstories that have come out so
far.
You know other things I do it's.
I did a couple of non-fictionjournalism related comics called

(33:28):
Climate Crisis Chronicles andCOVID Chronicles.

Speaker 2 (33:31):
I enjoyed COVID Chronicles.
Yeah, I liked it a lot.

Speaker 4 (33:33):
Thank you.
And you know, for those at thebehest of the publisher, I was
going to like meetings andthings like that to see, you
know, to sort of get it outwider.
So there's always like that isa part of the job, because you
know you want people to readyour work.

Speaker 1 (33:48):
Was that, you know, difficult for you?
I mean, as an editor, you wereworking in a newsroom, et cetera
, et cetera.
Was that a big adjustment, ordid it come naturally?

Speaker 4 (33:59):
I mean, I'm not great at you know, I'm by nature a
little self-deprecating, so likeI don't, I'm not, you know, I
don't have that sort ofconfidence like.
This is the greatest storyyou've ever read.
But I used myself deprecation,you know, like as an asset I
guess you know I have.

(34:20):
So there is this.
So the main character of StarWars, bounty Hunters, which was
my main series, went on for fouryears and it's ending in
January.
The main character is namedValance and there's this whole
it's a cyborg, and there's thiswhole fan base and they call
themselves Valance Nation andthey're online and I think you

(34:40):
know they I'm a little cruel tothis character, so they're
always, you know, like hashtag,ethan, damn it, and all this
kind of stuff, and so I'm verymuch, I very much play along
with it, you know, and I'll droplittle and like maybe one third
of these little clues I saywill actually happen, like you

(35:00):
know.
Oh, I, you know I hope in issue29 is Lover doesn't shoot him in
the face and he falls off acliff and that's what happened.
But in, you know, I also putother things, like you know, and
like they'll put a, someonewill post the fan art of the
character and I'll say that'show I always want you to
remember him after he's gone,you know.

Speaker 3 (35:19):
And then that sets off a whole other.

Speaker 4 (35:21):
You know a whole other.
How dare you kind of thing.
And they're onto me by now.
But but yeah, it's so, I usethat.

Speaker 2 (35:30):
So, ethan, I guess a very basic question here is how
long does it take you to cut toput together a story?

Speaker 4 (35:36):
How long does it take me to put together a story?
Well, I mean, it depends Ifit's like part of an ongoing arc
where we've had the outlineapproved and things like that,
it can be as little as theinitial script.
I would say three days.
You know, if I sit down andjust do it, if it's something
that I'm really struggling with,it can be a week or two.

(35:57):
You know, I usually have atleast like three comics going on
at the same time, so I have tobe at least a little efficient.
And there's like severalprocesses, like there's looking
over the lettering draft and,like you know, going.
So I'm often like at differentstages on different things and I
will say like the greatestthing, because you know, as a

(36:18):
reporter at a tabloid where youhad to work fast, you weren't
doing, I wasn't doing too manylong investigative.

Speaker 2 (36:24):
You just told my next question actually, oh, I did so
like that helped me.

Speaker 4 (36:29):
I'm very deadline oriented and I think that's one
of the reasons editors do likeme is because I'm very I'm
almost never remotely late on aI haven't just churned it out.
So like I do think that thathas helped me focus.
But the other trick I do I havetwo tricks I do Like.
One is if I'm stuck on onescript, I move to another script

(36:51):
.
Oh, like I'll play a song orsomething and sort of clear my
head a little bit and then I'llstart on like another script and
then go back so that I'm neverjust twiddling my thumbs.
Or I will walk.
I'll take a long walk and whileI'm walking I'll try to work on
a plot device just to sort ofget the blood going.

Speaker 3 (37:10):
When you're first creating a world let's say even
right New story from scratch,like cause, obviously some of
these characters have beencreated.
When you create the new episodeor would have you you kind of
know what to expect visually.
But when you're going into itand you just create a new story,
are you ever just amazed atwhat comes back at you visually

(37:32):
from what you created?

Speaker 4 (37:33):
story wise I teared up the first time that happened.
When I cause you writesomething down for the artist,
the artist looks at the scriptfor the first time.
They don't know what's in yourhead.
The script has to be theinstructions for them.
And then when you see somethingthat comes back and it's even
better than whatever rudimentarypicture was in your head, it's

(37:54):
pretty powerful, you know, andthat is very moving.
So, yeah, so the first timethat happened on Old man,
hawkeye, marco Cichetto was theartist and it was just like I
just it's just beautiful, it wasjust amazing.

Speaker 1 (38:11):
When did the momentum set in and really begin to take
off for you?

Speaker 4 (38:15):
I'm auditioning for the fourth regular role here.
That's fine.

Speaker 1 (38:19):
To be frank.
To be frank and you're not ajury.
I think that's helpful.

Speaker 2 (38:24):
You absolutely know the questions that were gonna
come up, so you're in our notes.
You're in a good place.

Speaker 4 (38:29):
So momentum, I really felt it when I was like a few
years in, a couple of years in,when I was, when I got Star Wars
bounty hunters like thisregular, I'd gotten a couple of
smaller Marvel projects I reallyfelt like I was in a good place
.
I was a little securefinancially because I was doing

(38:51):
one or two days a week at NBCNews, kept my foot in that world
.
So I really felt like, oh, I'mdoing great.
And then, and also it lookedlike we were nearing a deal for
a haunted girl and this is rightback in the beginning of 2020.
And then the pen oh, and I hadthis big Marvel project that was
part of a secret project.

(39:12):
That was really cool that I wasinvited to do this spin-off
series and everyone elseinvolved with these season like
big name writers.
So I really felt like in thatmoment, like this is pretty good
.
And then the pandemic hit andthe deal that we were
approaching for a haunted girlfell through.
They paused two of the Marvelprojects that I was working on

(39:37):
and I was left with just bountyhunters.
And for a while afterwards Idid get COVID Chronicles, which
spun out of because I was doingCOVID reporting for NBC News as
well, and I can get into thatseparately.
I don't want to go on a tangent,but there was a long period of
time through 2020 and into 2021,where I was like, oh my God,

(39:59):
was this it Like, did I did?
Is my comic career more or lessdone?
Wow, it was just so sudden andI lost so much that and I just
wasn't getting offers, becauseyou're at the end of the day,
you're a freelancer andsometimes it's feast and
sometimes it's famine, and it'sonly within the last year that

(40:19):
things have really picked up andit worked out well with the
time.
We have a haunted girl, and Ican talk about that when we get
to that.
But so it's only now that Ifeel like the momentum is sort
of back to some extent, but somuch of it is beyond your

(40:39):
control.
Like you can think, like I'mworking as hard as I can, I hope
I'm giving off good vibes toeditors, I hope they like my
work, I hope they like my workethic and my ability to turn
things around, and then you cango long periods of time without
anything.

Speaker 1 (40:54):
You've brought up a haunted girl a few times which
we obviously wanted to spend ameaningful amount of time on.
Can you walk us through thatproject and the significance of
it?

Speaker 4 (41:07):
Yes, so basically in early 2019, my daughter was
hospitalized for depression andwas suicidal, and I was actually
the good part of not being at afull-time office job anymore,
as I literally was at thehospital all day and I was
between visiting hours.

(41:28):
I would be writing scripts inthe hospital cafeteria for a
Star Wars comic, but obviously Iwas a little distracted.
I was very upset.
You feel guilty, like how couldyou miss so many warning signs?
And you're worried about whatthe future is going to be after
she gets out of the hospital,all these things and so I

(41:48):
thought I want to come up with astory that inspires my daughter
to keep fighting, and maybeother people too.
And that was literally.
I wrote down one line in areporter's notebook.
I still have my daily newsreporter notebook.
I stole a ton of them before Ileft, so We'll let it down out,
don't worry.

Speaker 3 (42:05):
Yeah, I'll get it down.

Speaker 4 (42:07):
If anyone's there who cares anymore.
So I wrote down a line whichwas the Fate of All Life rests
in a girl who doesn't know ifshe wants to live.
And I didn't really have astory, I just had that line, and
that took me a while.
I contacted Marco Lorenzano,who is this Mexico-based artist
who I've worked with before, andstarted working on an idea.

(42:29):
Like I said, we were close to adeal in the beginning of 2020,
and by the time last year rolledaround, we were close to
another deal that we had to walkaway from just because,
essentially, they were going togive an advance and control the
rights kind of thing, and it wasso personal.

(42:49):
But the timing was perfectbecause about a year ago at this
time, I approached my daughterand I was like she was in a
better place where, you know,not cured or magically, but no
longer suicidal and certainlyworking through her issues away
at university, and so I askedher if she wanted to write it
with me and she did, and so we,not that long after that, got a

(43:16):
deal with Sizzigie Publishing,which is an imprint of Image
Comics, which is the largestcreator-owned We'll get back to
that and so we were able towrite it together and I reached
out to the American Foundationfor Suicide Prevention.
They, along with this othergroup called Broadcast Thought,

(43:38):
which is basically a therapyadvocacy group for pop culture
where they make sure that mentalhealth is depicted correctly,
so we had sensitivity readersand the AFSP contributed a
resource guide to the back.
So you know hitting the road.
So the first two issues are out.
The third issue, it's afour-issue miniseries.

(43:59):
The third issue comes out nextmonth and I'm, like you know,
hitting the road.
We got to meet, or I got tomeet, lots of people, or at New
York Comic-Con as well, we alldid, and you know some
individual stories like thismeant a lot to me and I've gone
through this or you know thingslike that, and so, yes, this is
the most personal thing I'veever done and I get to do with

(44:21):
my daughter.

Speaker 2 (44:23):
Obviously, so many people who are reading this book
, who are reading this series,are going to say that they see
something within the book thathelps them right.
So, and I'll maybe turn it backa little bit to you and say
obviously this is a verypersonal project for you, but
how is your daughter, or whatkind of therapy has it been for
you and your daughter in thissense, to write this series?

Speaker 4 (44:45):
I think, like you know, for me because I've been
sort of working on it for fouryears, I've sort of been working
over those four years, I think,for her writing.
It has been both empowering andcathartic on one hand, but also
sometimes she's had to walkaway from it for a bit because
it's revisiting things that shedidn't necessarily want.
It was too personal, right?

(45:05):
Yeah, you know the character isnot her per se, but, and
certainly you know, thesupernatural apocalypse part is
not she didn't experience,fortunately, you know, because
the sort of the plot of thestory is this girl who is going
through similar things finds outthat she's the only one who

(45:26):
could stop this supernaturalapocalypse.
So she has to sort of persevereand fight through this to save
everyone else, and so is the.
Is this sort of the gist of thestory, and so you know the
supernatural part.
I think that was fun and thenthe personal stuff.
I think it was cathartic and atthe same time it was, you know,

(45:50):
sometimes it was rough.

Speaker 3 (45:53):
Yeah, I imagine you guys spent a lot of time
together if she's, you know,co-writing it with you and and
and that big of a part of it.
I was going to ask about howmuch of yourself you put in
maybe a character here and there, a father figure or something
of that nature, but there can'tbe any more fulfilling thing in
the world than doing somethingwith your daughter that is so

(46:13):
important and can affect so manyother people.
I was so happy to hear you talkabout Comic-Con and how you
felt that directly from peoplewho come up to you.
If you could talk a little bitmore about that.

Speaker 4 (46:24):
Sure, I mean, you know, as far as me putting any,
I think it was less like there'sa character that says some sort
of a father character thatmight some of the things that
maybe I said that weren't thebest things to say in the moment
, not realizing that I put in.
I don't know that.
The characters, you know, itwasn't so much that the
character was me, but some ofsome of the experiences that we

(46:46):
both had made it into the book,like something a teacher said or
whatever, but they were verymuch unique characters.
And then, as far as the, justthe fulfillment of it, I guess,
yeah, it's, it's, it's beenamazing.
And also, you know, this is thebiggest creator-owned thing
that I've ever done.
And just having somethingthat's yours and being

(47:09):
responsible because, like the,my role in the band, besides
being the co-writer, is, youknow, when it's this kind of
creator-owned.
There's different types ofcreator-owned, not to
overcomplicate things, but theimage models.
Essentially, you keep therights and in order to do that
you have to pay for the oraccount for the art costs.
So you know, for example, I paythe artist half a page rate so

(47:31):
he gets a percentage of theownership but also gets a, you
know a floor, so like he's goingto make something of it because
artists spend so much time onthe book.
You know I pay the colors, Ipaid the letter, the, the
variant cover, so like it's.
And I'm also very much likedoing a lot on the publicity
side.
You know I hired a publicistfor the comic book publicity but

(47:53):
like you know, using contactsfrom journalism, you know we we
got interest from CBS News andsome other places and so like
I've been really working hardand I've hit the road.
You know using miles and usingmy own, you know, credit card or
whatever, so like it's yoursand it's and it's you have to be
responsible for it.
So like I'm doing literallyeverything I can think of.

(48:15):
You know I was the one whoreached out to the AFSP because
I thought, hey, if we could havethem on board, they'll actually
do something very positivebesides just tell a story that
there's no nothing that they cando afterwards.
You know what I mean.
Like if this, if they're in asimilar position, like here's
some numbers, here's someinformation, and so like we
could do that.
So like you know everything Ican think of I'm doing.

(48:37):
And you know, when the tradepaperback comes out May, I'm
probably going to hit the roadagain for more.
So, yeah, so I think, becauseit's yours and because you're
responsible for it and it's notgoing to be successful by itself
, you literally do everythingyou can to get it on people's

(48:57):
radar, you know.

Speaker 2 (49:00):
I don't know how much you want to.
You want to delve into this,but you and I had talked before
this, this interview about.
I had asked you whether or notthe, the book itself, was done
for charity, and we had wetalked a bit about no, this was
not going to charity, but thatthe elements that are in here,
obviously from the ASFP, youknow some of the other elements

(49:22):
in there they're meant.
They're meant for a veryspecific reason and I mean for
those, for those, for thoseother fans of, for those other
folks listening to the podcastwho want to check out the book.
You know, some may some maythink that the proceeds are
going to charity, but you kindof explain why that's not the
case.

Speaker 4 (49:40):
Yeah, it's not the case because, to be blunt, the
chances of us actually makingthe money back on this book are
very remote.
Margins are very slim, right,very very slim, so like you know
if you're going to say like, ok, 10% of the profits go to
whatever.
If they're not, you know theprofits aren't there.
It's it's kind of like a hollowgesture and I'm kind of you

(50:02):
know.
And to say, like, if it's ahuge sales success, yes, we will
make some money off it, but itwon't be much.
It could, in theory, be optionfor a movie like that is
possible, but the vast majorityof comics, unfortunately, is
certainly at this level.
Just don't make that much money.
Like it's certainly once allthe costs are taken out right.
So you know, so I think youknow it's certainly like I need

(50:27):
to make some of that money back.
But what I've tried to do, youknow I did this with climate
crisis chronicles, where we putin a at the end of the book.
I had Terry Taminin, who's abig climate activist, and like,
and his, his organization, puttogether a list of here's things
that you can do right, and thesame thing, like, I wanted to

(50:50):
have the AFSP in that, ininformation in the back, because
I kind of feel like a somethingmore tangible that we can do is
get good information out there,get help from a shot there,
like as it being a sort ofdelivery system for that kind of
information.
You know, I think if we were,you know, if I knew going in

(51:11):
that we would definitely makemoney back then I could say,
yeah, we'll do 10%.
But, like to be blunt, you know, we're not even going to come.
I don't mean I shouldn't saythat I hope we come close, I
hope we do it.
It's just not something I couldguarantee that would happen and
I don't want to put that on thecover with some sort of false
expectation that, yeah, you paythis money and you know, out of

(51:35):
every dollar that this comicgets, it's going to go straight
to that charity.
Like to me, to me personally,and I think getting that
information out there is justthat, if not just as, if not
more important, because that'ssomething we can actually
guarantee doing.
You know what I mean.
Like I can promise that we putthis information in the book and

(51:55):
get it out there.
I can't promise that we'regoing to earn X number of
dollars for a charity.
It just I just don't know whatthe sales will be.

Speaker 2 (52:02):
All right.
So let me ask you this whichwhich business is harder to get
into or which is harder to stayin?
Journalism or comics?

Speaker 4 (52:10):
Comics, for sure, you know, I mean, I guess right now
, so much of journalism isfreelance.
So they both suffer from thesame thing, which is, you know,
just the instability and the andthe thing is to like, I'm lucky
because my wife has an adultjob, not a real job, a banking

(52:32):
job where, where, where you know, we have health care, so that's
not something I have to worryabout because that's, you know,
more and more of journalism isdone by freelancers and
basically so corporations cansave, benefit, money, and you
know it's, it's it's very hardto make a living like that, and

(52:53):
so I would say they suffer froma similar instability in that
way.
And I would tell anyone whowants to get into comics, the
vast majority of people workingin comics have side jobs Like
it's just, it's just, you justdon't earn enough money to pay.
You know, and you know, even I,whom not quite at the top level
of success, for sure, butsuccessful enough where I can

(53:16):
mostly do I still have thepart-time work elsewhere.
So there are writers who do itfull-time, and I think one of
the keys is they have enoughcreator on things and enough
options, so, like when, oneoption.
And for those of you out therewho don't know what I'm talking
about when I say options.
Often what will happen is aproducer will see a comic book

(53:39):
they like and they're like oh,comic books are hot, and so
they'll go and an optionessentially squat on the rights
for like two years.
So they'll pay like 50,000 orsomething like that and that
buys them the rights for twoyears and they hope to put
together a package thatinterests the studio so that

(53:59):
they can make a movie.
But most of these options don'tend up going anywhere.
So, like there are comic booksthat are options and then it
might revert back to thecreators after X number of years
.
So I think a lot of creatorshave multiple things optioned
and I think that's how theycobble together a full-time life

(54:21):
out of that.
But it's a tough road.

Speaker 3 (54:24):
Yeah, it sounds like a tough road, I mean.
So that's one way to do.
It is to squat on options, butobviously you need a resource to
pay for those rights and tohold on to them.
If someone has a story like you, if they wanted to follow in
your footsteps as a creator ofone of these things, is there a
resource?
Or is it just sending scriptseverywhere and hoping something

(54:45):
latches on?
Or even if you're a colorist ora letterer or someone who wants
to get into the world, like,what would you recommend
somebody do?
Is there a way to cold callcertain companies and be like
here's my resume, I need to getin there.
I need to do this.

Speaker 4 (55:01):
Cold calling is like does not work and in fact you
can't really send unsolicitedstuff.
I was lucky because I knewsomebody and I was too stupid to
you didn't just know somebody,you knew the guy.

Speaker 3 (55:13):
You knew the guy and I was too stupid not to know.

Speaker 4 (55:17):
Like, oh, that's not how things are done normally.
I think one of the benefitsabout being any kind of comic
book creator nowadays whetherit's a writer, artist, colorist,
whatever is there are more waysto self publish and
specifically like online comics.
Like if you go to webtoons asan example, like there are these
vertical comics that you onlinecomics and there are a few

(55:42):
people who partly that into somesorts of publishing deals and
things like that.
But if you can get someexamples of your storytelling
out there, then you can get somemore attention.
There was also comic bookanthologies periodically.
So, like the key is to get toactually create something that

(56:04):
people can see.
You can partner with otherpeople.
You can.
There are forums and thingslike that where you can find
each other.
So you get a writer, an artistand a colorist all paired.
It can be black and white,frankly, like what you need is
to start showing people yourserialized like storytelling

(56:24):
sequential I'm sorry, sequentialstorytelling capability,
because no one is gonna take achance on you just based on an
idea you have.
And it's just these editors,especially at the big two,
marvel and DC, are like superslammed and they're not gonna
take a risk on an unknown.
They're gonna wanna seesomething.
But just to give you an example, there's this guy at Brisson

(56:47):
who is a friend of mine, who wasa very successful comic book
writer.
You know he started making hisown comics and I think he like
Xeroxed them or whatever, and hewould hand them out at
conventions.
And you know, one day oneeditor saw it and was like, hey,
this is pretty good, and thatled to one thing, it led to
another, or whatever.
So, like it is, they do lookfor new talent, but you have to

(57:07):
be talented as something to showand that is in your power to do
, because they, like you, can doa little searching, find what's
platforms or sites you know canhost something like this.
But if you can actually showcase your work, you have a
chance of getting some editorsexcited.

Speaker 1 (57:28):
And you have a couple of examples of some of these
platforms or sites that peoplemight wanna look to.
You know.

Speaker 4 (57:34):
I have to look up like what's currently they are,
because I didn't go up thisroute.
There is, if you do a search,for Jim Zub is a writer and he's
somebody who knows a lot aboutthe industry and he did a blog
post on breaking into comics.
That is fantastic and I read.

(57:55):
There's also a Gamal Hennesseyis a lawyer and he has done he
did one book a comic book lawyerand he did one book called the
business of independent comicbook publishing, but he's
currently doing a new one that'smore for freelancers, like how

(58:17):
to break in work and you had abudget, your time, and it's at
the Kickstarter level right now,but it is.
If people search it out, theycan find it and get on that
waiting list, because it is likea Bible of useful information.

Speaker 1 (58:34):
Very, very cool.
So if people wanna search youout who don't know you after
listening to this episode andthey wanna get to know you and
really see your work, and thework that you're most proud of,
where would you send them?

Speaker 4 (58:49):
That's a good.
Like I don't have a websitecurrently or a particular book
we're storing.
Yeah, we are putting together ahauntedgirlcom to be sort of a
resource center for this.
Oh, that's great, but yeah,we're a little behind on that.

Speaker 2 (59:05):
Has haunted girl been optioned?
Has haunted girl been optioned?

Speaker 4 (59:08):
No, but we do have a manager who was interested in it
and has taken our cause, and soI don't know where that all
leads to.
It's not my world, but therehas been like I have had a
studio sort of cold reach out tome on Instagram, but I think
part of it is like whenever theythink they can get the rights

(59:28):
for cheap because what you'redoing, they'll reach out to me
about how much is like legit.
A horror movie with a theme youknow of an important theme like
this is great, or it's just like, hey, maybe these idiots don't
know much about it, which istrue, which is why we have a
manager, so yeah, so I think youknow, I'm cautiously optimistic

(59:54):
that there would be someinterest, because horror is the
type of genre where they like tomake movies that aren't
necessarily super expensive, andI think this could be done
relatively inexpensively Not myworld.

Speaker 1 (01:00:12):
So people should look for a haunted girl and what
else.
Pop three.

Speaker 4 (01:00:18):
I'd like to find me Find you.
I mean I'm on X for now.

Speaker 3 (01:00:22):
Every time Elon tweets I would have part of my
soul.

Speaker 1 (01:00:27):
I was there.
You can't control yourself.

Speaker 4 (01:00:30):
JSAX and yeah, I'm also on Blue Sky, Ethan Sax, and
I'm on Instagram, EthanJSax andyeah.
So for now, I guess socialmedia is where I announce new
things.

Speaker 1 (01:00:44):
Perfect.
Well, Ethan, this has beenfascinating.
As the you know, Tushar is thecomic book nut on the show, so
we definitely hear a lot fromhim.
Everyone's alive and well.
I think the two laries learneda tremendous amount during this
conversation.
Thank you for enlightening usto the degree that you did.

Speaker 4 (01:01:05):
Oh, I had fun with this conversation.
Yeah, thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:01:07):
So that was Ethan Sax , such a fascinating
conversation, and it wasfascinating for many different
reasons One, how do you become acomic book writer and what is
that process?
And two, it was interesting todiscover and learn that Tushar
Saxena has 20,000 comic booksNearly 21,000 now Nearly 21,000.

Speaker 3 (01:01:33):
I don't know if I have 21,000 of anything.
Let alone comic books You'redamn right, you don't.

Speaker 1 (01:01:41):
Where do these live, tushar?
I really want to know when21,000 comic books live.
Many of them do live in myapartment.

Speaker 2 (01:01:47):
Some of them have become makeshift furniture.
It's not easy to keep thesethings in line, wow.
But one thing I'll say aboutand actually I think Ethan does
a great job of kind ofdescribing to us the power of
comic books in some senses isthat obviously, for many of the

(01:02:07):
books that are out there,they're there to entertain, but
there are books that are outthere by folks, and he's done
some.
He did a book on COVID.
He did one on climate calledthe Climate Chronicles.
He did one called the COVIDChronicles, which actually, if
you ever have a chance, youshould read those.
It's terrific.
But not all comic books have tobe about nonfiction.

(01:02:31):
Some can be about fiction, somecan have a real bend in the
real world and in this senseI've had the opportunity to read
the first few issues of AHaunted Girl and it's
fascinating to see that.
You can see how the care thathe took to put this book

(01:02:52):
together, the story together,and to have his daughter to do
it with his daughter, who isovercoming her own issues in
terms of mental health that mustbe so satisfying.
I'm actually proud to own thisbook and I can't speak enough
law.
I can't law it enough If youhave the chance to read it.
It's only going to be fourissues.
If you have the chance to goout and get it, you should do it

(01:03:13):
.
You should do it today.

Speaker 3 (01:03:14):
Yeah, it must be so rewarding for him to be working
with his daughter on such aspecial project, something that
means so much to them, and toget to work with his daughter.
I mean that's amazing.
I learned so much from thisinterview.
Did you From research?
I really did Just theinvolvement and what how?
I always thought I alwaysthought you pick up a comic book
and you open it and, like oneperson, did all the illustration

(01:03:36):
and did the story and did theword bubbles, and I don't know.
I was an artist.
As a kid it was one of mythings.
I had to draw cartoons andstuff and I always considered
like, oh, if I ever get intocomic books, I have to do all
that.
And that's not true at all.
So I really did learn a lot T.

Speaker 2 (01:03:53):
I mean, come on, that's like saying, if I had, if
I would ever make a movie, thenI have to shoot it and I have
to write it, I have to direct it, I have to do the sound.
You're right?
Oh, of course not, you're right.

Speaker 3 (01:04:01):
Naive of me to think that one person is doing it all
and it would be amazing and I'msure there are people that do it
all, but that's not the norm inthe business and I really did
learn that.
I just found it fascinatingthat he, you know, you ask him
for advice, like how to get intothis industry and how to do
this, and he's like I don't know.
He's like.
I knew a guy, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:04:22):
I don't even know a guy.
He knew the guy.
That's how you get in.
Know the guy who makes all thedecisions.
That's how you get in.

Speaker 1 (01:04:28):
Exactly, exactly so and write a story, have it be
interesting and let it sort ofdevelop from there.
We talk to so many people whosort of not fall into
opportunities but sort of findtheir way to where they belong
Just by making themselvesavailable, being open, being

(01:04:48):
passionate, being interested indifferent things, and I've
mentioned this on an episoderecently that I really believe
that if you put yourself outthere, people over time begin to
wind up kind of where theyshould be, and it seems like
that's exactly what's happenedto Ethan.

Speaker 3 (01:05:06):
Yeah, and it's about, in his case, the interest of
one idea.
He became fascinated with theGreedo Han Solo thing and all of
a sudden he finds himself witha totally different career path,
and just the magic of that, Ithink, is purely fascinating.

Speaker 2 (01:05:21):
Yeah, I mean, look, there's an entire cottage
industry around offshoot storiesfrom scenes just in Star Wars,
I mean, and it's amazing thatthis is the one story that hit
and it's a great idea.
It's just a really funnyoffbeat idea and, yeah, if you
have the time and you have thecreativity, go out there and put

(01:05:42):
yourself out there.
The only way people are goingto know that you have great
ideas is to put those greatideas out there for people to
see.
That's really what the lessonis here from Ethan Sacks is that
he had a really good idea.
He thought he had a reallygreat idea and he was willing to
put the courage into it and putpen to paper and say, hey, look

(01:06:02):
, I have this idea.
I'd like you to read it.
If you think it's lousy, tellme it's lousy, but I think it's
really good.
And that's really what thisepisode was about.

Speaker 1 (01:06:10):
Absolutely.
It's just a great storyencouraged willingness to put
yourself out there, and thebreaks can go your way from time
to time and once you get themrun.
So with that, Ethan Sacks,thank you so much for joining
this episode of no Wrong Choices.
We also thank you for joiningus.
If this or another journeystory inspired you to think of a

(01:06:31):
friend who could be a greatguest, please let us know by
sending us a note via thecontact page of
nowrongchoicescom, as Imentioned off the top, please
support us by following no WrongChoices on your favorite
podcasting platform, whilegiving us a five star rating.
And then, last but not least,we encourage you to join the no
Wrong Choices community byconnecting with us on LinkedIn,

(01:06:52):
Facebook, Instagram Threads andX by searching for no Wrong
Choices.
On behalf of Tushar Saxena andLarry Shea, I'm Larry Samuels.
Thank you again for joining usand always remember there are no
wrong choices on the road tosuccess.
We learn from every experience.
Go right ahead.