May 5, 2025 • 51 mins
What does it take to succeed behind the scenes in the entertainment business? In this special replay, veteran talent agent Jeff Lesh shares his career journey — from NBC’s iconic Page Program to representing top comedians and navigating the realities of the industry.
Jeff’s story is packed with lessons on resilience, relationship-building, and managing creative talent — insights that apply far beyond entertainment.
Whether you’re pursuing a career in media or simply love behind-the-scenes stories, this conversation offers humor, hard-earned wisdom, and inspiration for anyone chasing success on their own terms.
Episode Highlights:
- Breaking into entertainment through NBC’s Page Program
- Working with comedians and navigating tough personalities
- Career lessons in resilience, adaptability, and trust
- Real-world advice for building a thriving career
Listen now for an honest, entertaining look at what it really takes to succeed behind the scenes.
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- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/no-wrong-choices-podcast/
- YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@nowrongchoices
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Larry Samuels (00:03):
Hello and welcome to no Wrong Choices.
Along with Larry Shea andTushar Saxena, I am Larry
Samuels, and this is a podcastabout the adventures of life
where each episode we'll talk tosomebody who had a dream or a
vision, chased after it andeither got there or got close,
and they're going to share theirstory back with us.
(00:23):
And this week we're talking toa good friend of mine, talent
agent Jeff Lesh, who's been inthe business for decades working
for William Morris, broke inthrough the legendary mailroom
program, which he'll certainlydig into as we get into the
conversation, but a good friendand a great, great storyteller.
Maybe you know too, sherry,you've spent a lot of time with
(00:45):
Jeff over the years.
Do you want to tell us a littlebit about him?
Tushar Saxena (00:48):
I think this is a great way to start us off too,
speaking of Jeff Lesh, your goodbuddy, and I've known him.
Like you said, I've onlyprobably known Jeff for about 10
years and I realized that afterspeaking to him I really
probably didn't know Jeff allthat well at all.
You know, this is all about thestory about how you make it and
how you get to the top, andit's partly luck, it's part
(01:09):
opportunity, and then you knowit's part hard work as well.
So I'll tell you what I had agreat time talking to Jeff.
I mean, I always have a greattime hanging out with Jeff and
talking to him, but this wasreally probably one of the first
times I actually had anopportunity to sit down and get
to know Jeff a little bit better.
That's really what I was reallyhappy with.
Larry Shea (01:24):
Yeah, we've been bumping into Jeff at Super Bowl
parties and special events, for,you know, like, like he said, a
decade or a decade and a half,yeah, and one of the things you
always realize about Jeff iswhat a great storyteller he is,
so what a perfect guy to bringon our program and talk about
his amazing career, because he'shad one.
And it's about, as you said, t,it's about opportunity and then
(01:46):
being prepared once thatopportunity presents itself.
And one of the things you knowthat we're going to try to bring
to our listeners on this showis how you can be prepared to
enter the door as it's crackedfor you, because you know, if
you have that opportunity andyou're not prepared to take to
follow through with it, whatgood is it?
You know?
So we're going to bring yousome entertaining stories, some
(02:06):
interesting people, some greatstorytellers like Jeff, and I
think it's a great way to kickit off and get the ball.
Get the ball rolling with Jeff.
Larry Samuels (02:14):
Flash, I agree, and you know, the other thing
that's so great about thingslike this is sometimes wonderful
opportunities either find us orwe happen to stumble into them
by accident, and in the case ofJeff, I think there's a little
bit of both.
That happens here.
So with that, why don't we stepinto the interview?
Everybody here is Jeff Lesh.
(02:35):
Now joining the conversation ismy close friend and veteran
talent agent, jeff Lesh.
Thank you for joining us.
Jeff lesh (02:43):
I am happy to be here and only just to spend some
time with Tushar.
That's the most important thing.
It really is.
Larry Samuels (02:49):
That is how we feel all the time.
So, jeff, as we were sort ofputting the parameters together
for a show about dreamers andpeople figuring out their path
in life and sort of going afterthat dream and grabbing onto it,
the first person I thought ofwas undoubtedly you, who wakes
(03:12):
up at 10, goes to work at noon,comes home at 3.30, takes a
two-hour lunch, like, ifanybody's living the dream and
has it figured out, it's JeffLesch.
Jeff lesh (03:22):
I can't even explain how you just completely
described my schedule so for youit's you're forgetting the yoga
session.
Tushar Saxena (03:32):
So for you, it's my baby takes the afternoon
train works from noon till threeand then works from works from
noon to noon.
Oh three, I love it so, jeff I,I guess I'll start off with the
first question to you, which isdid you always want to be a
talent agent?
Jeff lesh (03:53):
hell.
No, the answer is I had no ideawhat being a talent agent was.
I had limited experience withit, didn't know.
I wanted to be a pharmacist youwanted to be a pharmacist.
Tushar Saxena (04:05):
Why a pharmacist I?
Jeff lesh (04:06):
want.
Well, my father had a pharmacyin jersey.
It was a pharmacy and liquorstore and I could have been
either a drunk or a pharmacist.
So I wanted to be a pharmacistand I turned out to be a.
The pharmacist part didn't workout.
Thank you, the uh clearly,clearly clearly, clearly.
So I went to the university ofof Rhode Island and I could not
pass organic chemistry.
(04:27):
So the good people at theUniversity of Rhode Island
suggested that I find somethingelse to do with my time.
You can either you can eitherfind another major or go to a
different school.
Don't come back here.
So I I switched to become a?
Uh a journalism and historymajor, and got some internships
(04:51):
at local television stations andended up um, uh.
This time of year is like theperfect way of uh of talk this
time of uh of of years, theperfect, perfect time to talk
about it, because I uh got a jobworking at the 96 Olympic games
in Atlanta for NBC.
Tushar Saxena (05:10):
Oh, wow.
Jeff lesh (05:11):
And it was through a friend I, who's a friend of
Larry's as well.
Um, he went to Emory.
He called me and said they'redesperate for people to come
down and work at the Olympics.
And I said you know, desperate,perfect.
Larry Samuels (05:26):
I and work at the Olympics.
And I said, you know, desperate, perfect, I'm perfect, what I
think, I think Jeff Lesh.
Jeff lesh (05:29):
Desperate when you were desperate for someone,
clearly because of thisinterview, Larry, desperate.
So I got into my father's 93Buick Century and I drove to
Atlanta that night 15 hours, andI ended up working for NBC for
the whole of the Olympics.
But it wasn't just, you know,just during the games.
I was there for, I think, sixor seven weeks, you know, with
(05:51):
the prep and then witheverything else.
And I was a PA.
I was, you know, run get mecoffee.
Uh, go get donuts.
One box for the crew, one boxfor Al Roker.
Um, it was, it was.
Al was much bigger at the time,we would.
It was basically go pick up, uh, mary lou retton at the airport
(06:11):
.
Um, it was the craziest job.
I met everybody.
I was in the park when the bombblew up.
I remember that I, I was.
I had breakfast with richardjewel that morning.
Wow, you guys remember he wasthe guy who was accused of
blowing it up and we all knew hedidn't do it, you know.
But it was like it was, youknow, an absolutely crazy,
(06:32):
amazing, awesome summer.
Larry Shea (06:34):
So hold on, so let's back up to that moment, because
this is the critical thing,this is what the crux of the
biscuit is with this show is howdid that happen?
The crux of the biscuit.
So was it a phone call?
Tell us about them, cause thathad to be the biggest break of
your life in terms of yourprofessional career right there,
that phone call that drove youdown to Atlanta to get this job,
(06:55):
and then you were willing to dopretty much anything, correct?
Jeff lesh (06:58):
Exactly Okay.
So the background is I had Ididn't know anybody in the
entertainment business.
So I grew up.
I always loved television,right, I always loved TV.
I'm an insomniac, as Larry willtell you, so I was up all night
watching TV.
After a while my parents gaveup.
I didn't have a bedtime, Iwould just be up watching TV all
night.
So it was always my favoritething.
(07:21):
But I didn't know someone couldmake a career out of it.
It just never occurred to me.
So um I, when I switched majors, I was able to get this
internship at the local newsstation on my own.
But that summer, uh, which youknow, I didn't have a, I didn't
have anything lined up.
So I figured out a way througha friend of a friend of a friend
(07:42):
of a friend, which is whateverybody does to to get an
internship.
Do you guys remember the MTVBeach House?
Yeah, absolutely.
Of course, sure Right.
So I ended up getting aninternship at the MTV Beach
House and my summer was going tobe spent I think it was at the
Hamptons that year, just kind ofbeing a gopher or whatever
interns do at the MTV BeachHouse, being a gopher or
(08:07):
whatever interns do at the MTVbeach house.
Um, and then our friend Craigcalls me up and says hey, he
gives me the desperation phonecall and says they need people
and I and they pay.
So I wasn't going to get paidfor the internship and it was
with NBC at the Olympics and notMTV.
I mean I'm sure there wouldhave been other perks, but you
know, I'm like, yeah, why not,let's do this.
So that phone call got me rightinto that car and down I went
(08:28):
and I mean it was, it wasawesome.
I did everything.
Uh, I was at every.
I was at so many of the events.
I met every famous person whowas there.
I was like I was bob costas'sdriver, like it was just wow,
that's great, and I didn't knowanything.
We get there and they hand uskeys to a brand new cadillac and
a card where you can get a cokeand a tiny little broadcaster
(08:53):
in atlanta exactly that's goodwell, the relationships okay
easy, easy, I mean.
Larry Samuels (09:01):
The relationships that you made through that
experience must have beeninvaluable and you know, knowing
your story as well as I do.
If I remember correctly fromthere, you became a page at NBC
which must have, you know,accelerated, you know your
network and opened up that manymore doors.
(09:21):
Did you jump right from theOlympics to the PAGE program?
Jeff lesh (09:26):
No.
So at the end of the Olympics Ibecame the.
This is something that I kindof learned is always be there
when someone turns around andneeds something, no matter how
stupid it is, and always be thefirst guy that someone thinks of
.
You want to be the person thatsays oh crap, get Larry.
Oh crap, get Tushar.
Oh crap, get Larry.
(09:50):
Oh crap, get Tushar.
Oh crap, get Jeff.
It's one of your best qualities, jeff.
I must say I had very few,that's true.
So they, you know you alwayswant to be that guy.
So I became that guy down inAtlanta and at the end of it
they said listen, are you goinghome?
Do you have any plans?
Short story is I got hired towork at the Democratic National
Convention, which was Clinton'ssecond nomination, in Chicago,
(10:10):
and I ended up going there andthey were launching MSNBC.
So I was there when the firstbroadcast and I was, you know.
I was there when, you know,clinton got the nomination
balloons fall, all that.
And then I had plans to gooverseas for a year abroad and
they said, well, just keep intouch.
And through that I got aninternship at Dateline.
(10:33):
So my last year at school I wasjust barely doing any classes
and I drove down to 30 Rock andI would work for Dateline and
then, when I graduated WithStone Phillips.
With Stone Phillips and JanePaul Wow, who were very nice.
They were lovely and they werereally nice to the interns,
which I've learned to judgepeople by how nice they are to
(10:57):
the people that are below them.
That's very interesting andevery one of quality I ever met
was like that.
They were all the people thatare nice to their assistants,
that are nice to the interns andspecifically nice to the pages
at NBC which I'll get to.
Those were the quality people.
So I graduated on a Wednesday,thursday, I had a page interview
(11:19):
which I don't know if you guysknow about it, but it's a really
complicated program to get intoand if I didn't have these
other jobs, I it, but it's areally complicated program to
get into and if I didn't havethese other jobs I never would
have gotten into it?
Larry Samuels (11:30):
I never would have heard of it, Jeff, for
context, and I don't know howmany people are familiar with
the program.
There are so many stars, somany celebrities, so many CEOs
who have come out of thatprogram.
Just name a few to give peoplecontext.
Jeff lesh (11:42):
Oh God, Just name a few to give people context.
Oh God, Brandon Tartagoff, MikeEisner On the acting side,
Regis Philbin and more recently,Aubrey Plaza from Parks and
Recreation.
Tushar Saxena (11:56):
They were pages, I think.
Larry Samuels (11:58):
Superman was a page, if I remember correctly.
Oh, my God.
Jeff lesh (12:01):
Yeah, chris, they were all, but that's just the
top of it.
Most, like most of them arebehind the scenes.
People, like most of them, just, you know, they went on to not,
you know, not the headlinenames, but the people running
networks and the people doing,you know, doing the work of tv
and film.
Larry Shea (12:19):
so many of them were paid it's a big deal everything
you're talking about isrelationships, right, it's like
the people you knew and thethings that happened along the
way, right.
It just seems to be a generaltheme in how you get from one
point to another too and and youknow larry, I know larry has
this attitude too like if youwere.
Jeff lesh (12:38):
You know, I don't know how much I can swear on
this, but if you were a jackassto people along the way,
everybody remembers you as thejackass.
Larry Samuels (12:45):
Yep, If you were cool everybody.
Jeff lesh (12:48):
Oh, I know, that guy bring them in, but but you, know
.
Larry Samuels (12:50):
Interestingly, and I'll just throw this out
there you learn from thosepeople too, Like I'm a believer
that you learn from every singleexperience in life, and when I
look back as my time as amanager all those horrible
people that I dealt with alongthe way they taught me just as
much as the good people, and I'msure you had those same
experiences.
Jeff lesh (13:08):
Oh God, yeah, I've, larry.
You had a.
Well, guys, this is I met.
Larry had an internship.
Did you have an internshipthere, larry?
Larry Samuels (13:16):
I started as an intern and then I just you know
picked up every project Ipossibly could, similar to you,
working in the studios.
Eventually I was freelance PAand then I was a full-time PA
who was paid like a freelance PA.
So I just did everything Ipossibly could Well.
Jeff lesh (13:33):
the reason why I say that is because Larry had this
boss, who will remain nameless,but he was a jerk-off.
Larry Samuels (13:39):
I almost fought him in a hallway.
That is a true story.
Jeff lesh (13:43):
I really did Well, to be fair to be fair, it would
have been a very short fight.
Larry Samuels (13:48):
Yes, who would have won?
Wait a minute.
Jeff lesh (13:54):
It would have been two hits.
It would have been Larryhitting him and then Larry
hitting him again.
Larry Samuels (14:00):
That's exactly right.
This MF drove me out of NBCbecause I was going to kill him.
I needed to do it for my ownsafety.
Jeff lesh (14:08):
So he didn't do time.
But anyway, the point, goingback to what Larry was saying,
is I learned a lot from that guybecause I saw how he acted, I
saw how he treated people and,yeah, he was really good at his
primary job.
Tushar Saxena (14:21):
But eventually you become expendable in that
primary job right right, andit's how you act to people, is
how it is how you're judged, andgood lord so at what moment,
then you know, after all this,all these, all these experiences
(14:41):
you've had, did you you say toyourself you know what I really
love, what I'm doing here, thisis the, this is the career I
want to go for.
Jeff lesh (14:49):
So I loved it.
I was at.
I was working at at the time itwas Conan O'Brien show.
I was working at RosieO'Donnell show.
I was working at Saturday nightlive.
I was working at like I was atevery single Saturday night live
90, you know 98, 97, 98, 99.
I was like at every one, um,and it was like it was easily
the greatest job in the world,because all the women were
(15:11):
gorgeous and all the guys lookedlike me, which means I looked
like you guys.
Like it was, it was, it was.
Hey thank you.
So, uh, it was.
It was absolutely great.
So I made 10 bucks an hour, nohealth insurance, and we just
never stopped working andanytime anybody turned around
(15:31):
and need something, I would bethere and everybody wanted.
Basically, what you do is yougive tours to tourists.
Right, you'd have people fromWisconsin come in and you'd be
reading from a script.
Like you know, this is whereSeinfeld is on NBC and it makes
a million dollars every 30seconds for commercials.
(15:52):
And NBC makes 95% of its moneyfrom commercials and some yokel
would always ask well, where'sthe other 5% come?
And I would mix it up.
I'd say gambling andprostitution, and eventually
they suggested that I don't dotours anymore.
I was, I was scaring thetourists from wisconsin so so
(16:17):
everybody was going.
Then you, what you do is youapply for assignments and you,
you, you go and work for um ofthe shows SNL or Conan or
whatever.
And I looked around and sawthat the people who got hired
after they were done with theirpage program because it's only a
year long all were doingbehind-the-scenes stuff, like
(16:40):
they weren't doing the glamourspots of you know being down at
the SNL desk and hanging outwith George Clooney.
They were working in marketing,they were working in PR, they
were working for news.
They were doing that stuff.
So I took all of the non-glamourassignments and I think it was
around that time that someonecame to me and said hey, look, I
(17:03):
know you got a little whileleft in your page program, but
do you want to work for news?
And I took a job as a newsproducer and I had, like, I
spent the summer in Pittsburgh.
I was working with GeraldoRivera at the time and I was you
know I was, I wasn't, I was a23 year old news producer.
It was stupid that they justgave me this job.
(17:26):
I can't imagine what youlearned from Geraldo.
Larry Samuels (17:29):
Geraldo, I learned never.
Jeff lesh (17:32):
No, you know what I learned from him?
I learned never to be inanyone's shot Like get the fuck
out of the way.
Right and the truth doesn'treally matter At the time, but
it was mostly like you could doa montage of Geraldo, like you
could literally do a montage.
Let's get out of my shot.
(17:52):
You can literally do a montage.
I love it, but he was a niceenough guy and it was, you know
it was.
But he was a nice enough guyand, uh, it was, you know it was
.
He was doing.
This was before he kind of losthis mind with the, with the,
with the right wing stuff, andhe was, you know he was, he was
cool, um, and I remember, beforeI forget, one of the greatest
(18:17):
jobs I had at snl.
I don't know if you guysremember this, but in 97 98 99,
the hottest, hottest tickets inNew York were Yankees, red Sox,
the producers, on Broadway withRoderick and Nathan.
Tushar Saxena (18:30):
Lane, nathan Lane .
Yeah, yeah, sure.
Jeff lesh (18:33):
And Rosie O'Donnell's show.
Rosie O'Donnell's tickets werelike gold.
Larry Samuels (18:38):
Really, did they know she was an asshole?
Were they aware of this or no?
Well, I can get back to thatlady.
Never mind, never mind.
Jeff lesh (18:48):
No, that's the one I can actually talk about.
She was terrible she was atyrant.
She was awful to her people.
She had people fired, whateverRemind me of that so I can get
back to that because there's amayor call button, so anyway, it
was the hottest ticket in theworld, so I became like the
ticket guy.
Someone decided I should be theone in charge of the tickets
for Rosie O'Donnell.
(19:10):
I was trading these things foreverything under the sun, like
front row seats at the producers.
I was like a concierge, likejust getting.
The executives at NBC wouldcall me and ask me to get
tickets for rosie o'donnell show, like high level people.
Her brother once called me wholarry knows, and asked me to get
(19:31):
them tickets to her, to hissister's show yes did she not
want him at the show?
she didn't, she didn't, hedidn't want to bother her, you
know, yeah, so he bothered youum yeah but it was like I would.
I would.
It was the greatest thing inthe world.
It was like you had the keys tothe kingdom.
I only had the job for, likeyou know, two months, but it was
like the greatest thing in theworld.
Larry Shea (19:52):
It's going to go on Jeff's tombstone it's going to
be once was the keeper of thecastle, exactly.
Jeff lesh (20:01):
So to get back to that, she was a tyrant and she
was terrible.
Later in life, at WilliamMorris, I met her and it was you
know.
It's 15 years later and she,like, acknowledged how horrible
she was.
She was navigating the halls ofNBC.
When does the moment come thatyou say, ok, I've been doing
this?
Larry Samuels (20:19):
I've been paying my dues.
There's got to be a little bitmore, or is there something else
that I want to chase?
Tushar Saxena (20:35):
Wait before you answer that question, jeff.
What was the time period we'retalking about now?
You know you've done all yourexperience stuff.
Now you're you've essentiallyhad your keeper of the castle
moment and then you're going tomove forward again.
So how many, how long of a timeperiod are we talking about
there?
Jeff lesh (20:51):
so I was at nbc, between paging and producing and
whatnot, from 96 until may 2000.
And in may 2000 so I was, Ibecame a promotions producer.
I was working on news andnightly, and I looked around and
saw that everyone was in their40s, everyone was divorced,
(21:13):
everyone worked 9000 hours a day, everyone was miserable.
Everybody was waking up.
The only people who weremarried still were people who
were married to other people inthe same business.
Sure Right.
So I didn't care about that.
But I was kind of looking at myfuture.
I'm like do I want to be wakingup at four in the morning
(21:33):
listening to NPR for that nextstory and trying to figure out
how to produce it for NBC News?
But I had this dilemma becauseI was basically living a dream.
Like, I wanted to work at NBC.
It's NBC, it's the best and thebest of NBC News.
So I was.
(21:56):
I went to my boss and I said youknow, what else can I do?
And so she introduced me to.
She liked me, so she introducedme to this guy and his name was
Henry Reich and Henry was the.
He was the.
He worked for William MorrisAgency and he was the.
He represented anchors andreporters and-air personalities.
(22:21):
He was the agent for the on-airpersonalities and, uh, you know
, his client list includeseverybody from Joe Scarborough
to Lawrence O'Donnell to to JimKramer, to, it's just he's, he's
the best of the business.
And I became friendly with himas he would come in and out.
And after a while he turned tome and he said you know, what do
(22:44):
you?
What do you want to do?
And I said you know, what youdo sounds kind of interesting.
And he says well, you know, youseem marginally intelligent.
Why don't you come work in ourmailroom?
And I said I am marginallyintelligent, right.
Larry Shea (22:59):
So so what?
So what happened?
So this is all right, this isit right here?
Right because you're, you'reabout to make a leap.
You know we can all feel thathappening.
And how does it happen?
How does this?
How does this, uh,transformation occur?
Jeff lesh (23:12):
uh, another friend of , actually of larry's introduced
me to someone else where I wasat the same time offered a job.
This is 99.
I'm sorry, this is like late 99, 2000, may of 2000, like around
there.
And the job was to work withNBC's new web services in San
(23:32):
Francisco, which is like one ofmy favorite cities, making like
at the time I was, you know, Istill wasn't making a ton of
dough dough, but it was makingclose to six figures car shares,
like the whole thing.
Moving to San Francisco, whichis one of my favorite cities,
and I had that on the table, andthen I was offered a spot in
(23:53):
the William Morris Mailroom,making $17,500 a year, year and
um, it is.
I don't know if you guys knowor know what it is or have heard
of it, but it is a real as, as,as cool as the page program is.
The way morris mailroom is likeit's really the keys to the
king, really, it's really it.
It's harder to get into thanharvard business school.
(24:15):
It is.
It is the, the.
So I don't have the job yet,right?
So so I was just offered aninterview, it's all I was
offered and I just you know soso I was.
So I was offered that one jobin San Francisco which is a no
brainer to take, like it's atotal no brainer.
And I remember I was talking tomy, I was about to move out of
(24:36):
my house, so I'm still livingwith my parents, I'm 25.
And my son, I said to my father, you know well, anyway, I got
the interview, um, I end upgetting, I end up getting in.
It was like a panel interview.
There were like these sixsenior agents of like really
famous people, um and um, I, Imake it, I they, they offer me
(24:58):
the job.
I mean, henry was super helpful.
That guy, you know just I guess, really went to bat for him.
And I remember saying to myfather I'm like, okay, this is
the job in San Francisco, or Icould do this job.
And my father, was a pharmacistin Jersey had.
He didn't know from the internet, like he didn't know from NBCI
or whatever, but he had heard ofthe william morris mailroom, uh
(25:22):
, and he said, no, you gottatake that job the one at william
morris, the one at williammorris and he says I said yeah,
pop, but it means I gotta stayhome and live with you and mom.
He goes don't leave me alonewith that I've met your mom and
I understand completely.
Larry Shea (25:40):
There you go.
Jeff lesh (25:41):
So I took that gig and you know.
A side note is have you guysever heard of NBCI?
Tushar Saxena (25:52):
Well, that's exactly the next question.
When he talked about inflectionpoints, you chose to go right.
Larry Samuels (25:57):
You could have gone left.
Jeff lesh (25:59):
Yeah, but we know what happens after you went
right.
Larry Samuels (26:04):
What would have happened?
Jeff lesh (26:06):
if you had made that other decision.
Well, I always say like I madethe best decision in the world.
But who knows, I might havebeen in Silicon Valley and I
might have met, you know—.
Larry Samuels (26:11):
That's true.
Jeff lesh (26:12):
I might have met Elon Musk.
You know what I mean.
Tushar Saxena (26:15):
You might have created.
Jeff lesh (26:15):
Google.
Larry Shea (26:15):
Why would I be?
Jeff lesh (26:16):
talking to you?
Yeah, exactly.
Tushar Saxena (26:18):
If I were to have , it would have been.
Jeff lesh (26:20):
Jugal, it would have been Jugal.
Larry Samuels (26:24):
The Jewish Google Say.
You're searching for Jewsonline.
You're in the door, exactly,you're pushing the mail cart.
Jeff lesh (26:30):
You're literally pushing the mail cart, are you?
Larry Samuels (26:34):
told beforehand that this is what you're going
to be doing for the next sixmonths, 12 months, three years.
How long is your sentence goinginto this?
Jeff lesh (26:43):
There is no sentence.
It is a sentence without end.
So basically you work pushing amail cart so I remember you
guys sent me over a list ofhazing and things like that.
There's no hazing per se, okay,but you are making very little
dough in the most expensive cityin the world and you there is
(27:05):
no prospect of making more doughbecause there's no guarantees.
It's not like, you know, beinga being an intern in a law firm,
where you start off at acertain level and then you go up
.
It's got like a 97 percentattrition rate.
Tushar Saxena (27:20):
Wow, wow.
Jeff lesh (27:20):
So, excuse me, so, um , you do that for six months and
then you become a floatingassistant, which means you
basically, whenever a regularassistant to an agent is not
around, you fill in for that day.
So after you push a mail cartaround, you kind of meet as many
people as you can, um, and yousee the craziness that's going
(27:42):
on people yelling at people,people screaming at people,
people.
You know it's not just likeentourage, but it's a little bit
like entourage right?
Tushar Saxena (27:49):
did you ever see the movie swimming, swimming
with sharks?
Jeff lesh (27:52):
so buddy ackerman was not an agent, he was a, he was
a producer, right, so we didn'thave a guy like that that he was
based on.
Um, uh, shoot, who was the guyhe was based on?
uh, scott, scott rudin thatsounds right yeah that sounds
right he was based on him.
(28:13):
Um yeah, where from the outsideyou think he's the greatest guy
in the world, but when you workfor him or had to work with him
, you realize what a crazyperson he was so that's part of
the pay in the do stuff too thatis talking about you know it
is the paying, the do stuff.
But 90 of the people werereally not like normal people.
You know you had crazies andthey were fun, but they were,
(28:36):
you know it's.
Larry Shea (28:37):
It's the entertainment business there's
going to be crazies.
Larry Samuels (28:40):
You know you've been pushing the mail cart
around for a while and youunderstand the culture.
You're getting a feel You're afloating agent Like.
When was the moment whereyou're like, ok, I can do this
and I want to do this, andcollectively with that?
When did you know that youcould do it and that you were
(29:01):
the right guy?
Jeff lesh (29:04):
Well, I'll let you know.
Like what made you different?
Larry Samuels (29:09):
What made you unique from?
Jeff lesh (29:10):
the others that were pushing the cards too.
One of the comedy desks openedup and, honestly, one of the big
things that made me differentwas privilege.
I was able to save my dough.
I was able to live with myparents.
I didn't have to go and take ajob making tons of money.
I was able to afford to to dothings you know, because I'm
(29:36):
lucky that I had the backup, um,so I was able to make very
little money.
You get on a desk.
I got on a desk of a guy namedum Brian Stern, who was a young
agent in the comedy departmentand I was his assistant for, uh,
three and a half years and inthat three and a half years,
everybody from my mailroom classwent.
(29:57):
They got jobs on wall street.
They got jobs for Goldman Sachs.
They went and got jobs forstudios.
They went and got jobs for, youknow, they did a.
They did a whole bunch ofdifferent things.
Most of them every one of themwho wants to be in the
entertainment industry is stillin the entertainment industry,
but for the, for the most part,they, you know they left.
They got jobs where you couldmake dough.
Uh, and I had the thankfully,the backup of my parents and the
(30:21):
fact that I, you know, sockedaway every dime I made and
bought a place, um, so I wasable to do it.
So, um, you know, and then so Iworked for this guy, um, and we
had this amazing roster oftalent, um, you know, all tons
of writers on Saturday nightlive, uh, we worked with Susie
(30:42):
Essman, from, uh, from, curbyour Enthusiasm, who was just,
you know, getting huge.
And uh, uh, jennifer JenniferHudson, who was Dreamgirls and
and blowing up and becoming astar, and there was some
Samantha Bee, who was on thedaily show and then, you know,
you know, her now is having herown show.
Um, and we were working with allof these, these amazing young
(31:03):
kind of talent coming out of newyork, and you know, we were.
We were getting them jobs on tvand launching their television
shows and and casting, and, youknow, doing all that and my, you
know, primary area of interestwas comedy.
Um, so, while my boss wasgetting them television shows, I
(31:27):
started booking them in clubsand in theaters and for uh,
corporations.
And I discovered that thecorporations, you know, they ask
Willie Sutton, you know, why doyou rob banks?
And he said that's where themoney is.
And I said, you know, thesecorporations want to have
comedians in, especially cleancomedians, and they have tons of
(31:49):
dough.
And you know, they ask how muchsomeone costs and you can
always say, well, how much doyou have?
And they would tell me, and I'dgive them somebody you know,
correct to put it.
And I just started booking allof these you know comedians of
corporations and eventually, youknow, after three and a half
(32:09):
years of doing this, my boss,who was this wonderful woman,
came to me and said listen, Ineed your help because I I I've
been going to Whoopi Goldberg'stelevision uh, shows.
She hasn't been on the road andI've been going to her shows
all this time and I have afamily I can't really go anymore
.
Can you go and be kind of likeher guy and cover shows?
(32:34):
And I said, sure, becausethat's what I learned Always say
yes, you know.
Um, so I started going on theroad with whoopie in 2002 or
three and basically have been onthe road with her ever since.
And it was just because I wasthe right guy at the right place
(32:55):
at the right time.
So it's all luck to answer yourquestion.
It's like just always be thereand always say yes.
So it's all luck to answer yourquestion.
It's like just always be thereand always say yes.
And then the same thinghappened with, you know, all of
the other comedians werepresented.
Like we just I was just alwayskind of in the room and there,
which was cool.
And then one of the one of thefun ones I got to do is I went
(33:15):
out to LA when I was just out inthe mailroom and I was just
starting to do all of this stuffand, uh, we had become friendly
and she introduced me to thecomedian that night who was
Mitch Hedberg, um, who you knowis is an absolute legend.
This is right before, uh, rightbefore he passed away.
(33:37):
It was like maybe three or fourweeks before when he was on the
show.
But it was like, and like I'min the room with these like guys
who I just like idolize, andI'm like I want to be in this
business.
This is fun, this is great, youknow, and you know it's kind of
funny because the work, thework is during the day, is sort
(34:01):
of during the day, but the realwork is like being with these
people at night, going to theshows, being with the buyers,
being with the comedians.
That's the, that's the actualjob, and you basically just want
to be someone that can tolerate.
Tushar Saxena (34:16):
So all that experience you had doing the
behind the scenes jobs, allthose you know, all those desk
jobs, that really prepared youthen for this portion of hey,
you got to learn how to gladhand people Right Pretty much.
Jeff lesh (34:29):
It's like it that is.
I was the world's worstassistant.
I was terrible, Larry, and Ialways joke that you know I
don't know how to use awhiteboard and you didn't know
what a whiteboard was.
I don't know how to use awhiteboard and you didn't know
what a whiteboard was I didn'teven know how to use it.
Tushar Saxena (34:43):
You didn't know what it was.
Jeff lesh (34:46):
It's true, and I was literally terrible at the
correspondence, at the writingletters, at the, you know, but
the clients loved me, the buyersloved me and the agents loved
me and the buyers loved me andthe agents loved me and could
always trust me.
So, even though I was terribleat all of the stuff, you know,
(35:06):
like the actual job, like if youread the job description, you
know of all the multitasking andthe scheduling and the.
You know all the stuff.
That's the actual job.
I was abysmal and the one thingI learned is that all of the
guys that made it guys and girlswho made it to agent they were
terrible at being an assistant.
That's interesting.
The ones that were really goodat being assistants are shitty
(35:30):
agents.
Larry Shea (35:31):
This is great.
This is great.
So talk, talk about the job,because that's key.
Like you know, we're talkingabout what a, what an amazing
accomplishment and what aprofessional you became quote,
unquote, professional and youknow you have to do this job.
So are you getting calls frompeople to book your talent,
basically, or are you shoppingyour talent and when, when you
(35:53):
make those deals, are they?
I'll take any deal for thisclient, but this one will only
do you know.
Jeff lesh (35:58):
Radio.
Larry Shea (35:59):
City Music Hall type of thing, money.
Jeff lesh (36:01):
And then there's gilbert godfrey, where someone
calls me and said, gilbert, Ihave a job for you.
Before I hang the phone up,he's like, and book me at the
motel six, wait, wait, I.
I got two gilbert.
(36:22):
I got two gilbert stories thatare fun.
So, oh my god, he was a so youknow again legendary comedian
that everybody knows and he'she's been a william morris
client his entire career, fromthe time he was I think he was
16 or 17 when he first got onstage so he's and he's like in
his 60s now.
Larry Shea (36:40):
He's not a young man , right.
Jeff lesh (36:42):
No, no, he's been so anyway.
But handsome, oh handsome.
So I'll get to that.
So he is notoriously cheap,like.
Notoriously cheap, like, if youever want to have fun, go watch
his documentary.
He leaves hotels.
Tushar Saxena (37:02):
He, he has all the hotel soap from every hotel
over the past 45 years.
Jeff lesh (37:05):
It's amazing.
He has every dime he ever made.
He has every dime he ever made.
So, um, I, I, I had to.
He was playing somewhere and Ihad to book him in a hotel.
And I'm like Gilbert, where doyou want to stay?
The Marriott or the Hilton oranything?
And he goes I don't know, bookme in the cheapest place you can
where I don't have to sleepwith a rifle, which was great.
(37:27):
So my favorite Gilbert story isI'm working at the desk and I'm
working, it's like it's a longday and you, you work 10 hour
days.
When you're at the, when you'reat the desk, you, yes, you
start it.
You start at 9 30, but youbasically work until whenever
everybody goes home and you'reworking on la time, so it's, you
(37:47):
know, could be nine o'clock orwhatever.
So it's late at night and, uh,I get a call.
Do you guys remember the BostonPhoenix?
They were like the villagevoice of Boston, not real.
Tushar Saxena (37:57):
Not really, no, I don't know, I've heard of it,
but for the purposes of this,conversation.
Jeff lesh (38:01):
I do absolutely so I get a call and they say you know
, are you Gilbert Gottfried'sagent?
I go, yeah, you know.
Larry Samuels (38:12):
Not who wants to know?
Jeff lesh (38:17):
I should have said I was like oh boy so they go um
well, I'm, you know, so and so,so and so, from the boston
phoenix, and we just want to letyou know that we ran a contest
and over all of greater NewEngland and we have named
(38:37):
Gilbert Gottfried as the leastsexy man in the world.
Larry Samuels (38:40):
Wow, who did he run?
Jeff lesh (38:44):
against.
Do you know?
Larry Samuels (38:46):
Was it a write-in ballot or were there other?
Jeff lesh (38:48):
contestants.
Evidently he won, going away, Idon't know.
All right.
So I start cracking up.
I go, okay, and he's like well,we would like to interview him,
we'd like to do whatever.
So I call gilbert and I go well, I have good news in bed.
The good news is you won anaward.
(39:10):
So I tell him and he laughs,his, he thinks this is the
funniest thing in the world.
So he gets, he gets interviewed, it gets where I, I gets, he
goes on conan promoting, he goeson, he's on stern all the time.
At the time that he's talkingabout, yeah, I got so much
booking, so many, so much playout of this.
(39:31):
It's crazy.
Like he started doing something.
So, anyway, it was like it wasa huge, great thing.
So cut to the following year.
Um, you know that it all dieddown and I forgot about it a
little bit.
And I get a call from theboston phoenix and you know, hey
, jeff, it's so and so.
So I'm like, oh, how you doing?
He's like, well, listen, I havebad news, uh.
So, anyway, he gives me, hegives me the information he's
(39:54):
going to give me.
And then I call gilbert and Isay gilbert, I have, uh, I, I
have also bad news and good news.
The bad news is that you didn'twin the award for least sexy
man in the world.
He goes, oh, that is bad newsand I go, well, the other news
is that they've named the awardthe Gilbert Gottfried I felt
(40:18):
where you were going.
Larry Samuels (40:22):
I didn't mean to laugh at your punchline.
Jeff lesh (40:24):
It will be called this.
So again I got him a new youknow Wow, but that's just the
fun with Gilbert.
One of those guys was up foranything.
Tushar Saxena (40:34):
So, jeff, look, obviously you've had a very,
very, you've had a very, a veryfun career thus far, uh up until
this moment.
Jeff lesh (40:43):
Yeah, it's had its moments.
All right, it's fine.
Now everything is up at the end.
Larry Samuels (40:47):
Yeah, this is not that moment how else, you know,
as we begin to, you begin topivot towards giving you your
day back.
You know what are some of theother things you've seen along
the way that that have changed,like how has the industry
evolved along the?
Jeff lesh (41:04):
way.
That's awesome.
That's the awesome part.
It hasn't.
It's the same business fromwhen William Morris got off the
boat in 1890.
Wow.
When William Morris got off theboat in 1898.
Wow.
Larry Samuels (41:13):
Like here's a famous person.
Jeff lesh (41:15):
Here's a famous person I would like them to show
up somewhere and then they willget paid for it.
Now, how has that changed?
Now they do it by Zoomsometimes.
Now they might, you know,satellite in, but it's all the
same thing.
It's literally the samebusiness and I almost think that
, aside from that, it's one ofthose rare disruption proof
(41:41):
businesses, because thedisruptions only benefit the
person doing it.
Like it's not much of anoutside disruption, like the
only the only part of it that'slike disruptable is.
You know you know people goingdirectly to talent.
You know you know people goingdirectly to talent.
But I have now worked with somuch talent and the thing I have
(42:03):
learned is they have nointerest in that.
They want someone to handlethings for them, and it's been
that way for 120 years.
Like they just they just don'twant to deal with it.
It's like you pay for a service.
Tushar Saxena (42:14):
If you have one piece of advice, let's put aside
being always available.
If you have one piece of advice, for someone who wants to get
in.
Jeff lesh (42:21):
I have different advice for you than I would have
for the other two.
Larry Samuels (42:25):
But it's a long separate private conversation
that we really shouldn't have onthe air.
Jeff lesh (42:31):
No, no, there's an adage in the business which is
um, you go through four, four orfive stages of a career, which
is which can be in any business,which is like who the hell is
jeff lesh, and then get me jefflesh, and then get me a young
jeff lesh, and then who the hellis jeff, what stage are you?
Larry Samuels (42:50):
at now.
Jeff Right, where are?
Jeff lesh (42:53):
you.
Would you guys like to buy somesupplements?
Tushar Saxena (42:57):
I'm always looking for a salesman, jeff
Exactly.
Someone get me, jeff Lesh.
Jeff lesh (43:02):
My advice are that things haven't changed.
You always want to be the ohcrap, get me that guy.
You always want to be.
When someone turns around andthey need something, you always
want to be the person that canprovide them with what they need
, even if they don't know theyneed it Like you.
You, there should never be aninstance the second you're not
(43:22):
someone's first phone call, thenit starts to fade Like.
You want to be the person theycall for the advice.
You want to be the person thatthey call for um, the biggest
thing to the smallest thing.
If you're that person, you'llalways be in demand, interesting
and you know, that's kind of.
That's kind of how I would sayit.
Larry Samuels (43:41):
You just and and you want to be that guy, and I
guess like if your friend callsyou and says he wants to
interview you for you want tosay yes the.
The question I'll end on ifthere is somebody out there who
is 19, 20 years old and they'retrying to figure out what their
path is going ahead you know ayou know would you recommend
(44:04):
that they give it a shot and howwould you recommend that they
get started?
Jeff lesh (44:10):
Okay, um, the.
The.
I saw again attrition rate of99%.
So many thousand people walkedin front of me with a mail card
and then went to do somethingelse, or worked with me at NBC
(44:32):
and then went to do somethingelse else, or worked with me at
NBC and then went to dosomething else.
It is, it's really aperseverance game and you have
to have the wherewithal andbacking of you know,
understanding family.
We had Harvard lawyers come in,people who went to Harvard law
school and they would last threemonths.
(44:52):
They would last three monthsand they'd walk in anybody ivy
league, anybody who wants to gointo the entertainment business
who went to an ivy league school.
I'm like get out of here, justgo away.
It's an industry of c students.
It really is.
It's an industry of reallypeople who love entertainment
but did crappy in school.
Go do something.
(45:14):
If you are a, an ivy leagueperson with a, with an
unbelievable pedigree who bustedhis butt, no matter where you
were from, if you like, end upin the entertainment business.
You failed like you should be,changing the world I really
believe that, like, give me aguy, give me a girl from a state
(45:34):
school who was a C student whobusted her ass over someone from
, like, a well-known college anyday of the week?
Wow, because that's not theskill set.
It's not the skill set.
You want someone who's willingto bust their ass.
You want somebody who's willingto put clients first above all
else, to put clients first aboveall else.
And you know, and and be arelationship person who you know
(45:56):
is someone that you want tohigh five at midnight after, you
know, at a comedy show.
You don't want.
You know it's not, it's not foreverybody, um, and the money
doesn't come until deep into itas opposed to other.
You know, you, you, you.
There's other perks.
I mean, you get two weeks offat christmas and you know the
(46:18):
whole industry shuts down andyou know larry always makes fun
of me that I spend the month ofdecember in europe.
Larry Samuels (46:24):
Um, well, you do right that's true, and you go to
work at 10 and you leave atfour and you read the New York
Times from 1 until 3.
Jeff lesh (46:33):
I do and the perks are.
You're at like I'll get a callfrom the head of music say meet
me at my box at Madison SquareGarden.
We're going to the Rihannaconcert tonight or we're going
to the Tom Petty concert.
May he rest in peace.
But like all of that happens,like the perks are the fun of
(46:54):
the job, there is not afinancial reward for much longer
than other high profile jobs,if that makes sense so I guess
the the takeaway is hustle,perseverance, find a way to get
to that door, but in the end itis absolutely worth it.
Larry Samuels (47:13):
Uh, sure, to put words into your mouth, it feels
like that's what you're saying.
Jeff lesh (47:21):
I have had nothing but fun, and if I didn't do all
of these things, I never wouldhave met you guys, right?
Larry Samuels (47:26):
so which is special part of it too.
Jeff lesh (47:29):
Um, that's what?
Wait a minute.
If I didn't do all of thosethings, I wouldn't have met you
guys.
Tushar Saxena (47:33):
I was about to say the same thing.
Larry Samuels (47:36):
Well, with that, jeffrey, you know, thank you for
spending time with us today.
You know it's.
I've had the pleasure ofknowing you for a long time.
I know your story is a veryinteresting one and hopefully
for everybody else, theyappreciated you and appreciate
you just as much as I do.
So what a sweet guy with thatsweetheart.
Jeff lesh (48:01):
He is Jeff.
He is a sweetheart.
You guys should work with himon a radio.
Larry Samuels (48:06):
We'll get right on the podcasting thing first,
or or or something like that,Jeff, thank you so much for
calling.
Jeff lesh (48:13):
It has been an absolute pleasure.
Bye, bye, thanks.
Appreciate that, jeff.
Larry Samuels (48:14):
Thank you so much for calling in.
Tushar Saxena (48:15):
It's been an absolute pleasure Bye-bye.
Thanks, jeff, appreciate it,you're welcome.
Larry Samuels (48:17):
Well, that was my friend Jeff, as, again, you
guys knew him previously, buthis inside stories and a lot of
the stuff that he ran through, Iknew those stories.
So I may have cheated a littlebit in terms of pushing the
conversation in certain ways,but you know, what did you think
, larry?
What were your thoughts?
Larry Shea (48:37):
I think I think when I, when I hear Jeff tell these
stories, it's about that onelittle thing right, that one
little break, and then it startsthe long and winding road from
one thing leading to another.
And I think the most importantthings Jeff talks about in this
interview are just being theperson that everybody needs,
right, like that is such animportant thing is to be the
(48:58):
person that people like where isJeff Lesh?
Get me Jeff Lesh, right.
I mean, that's just the mostimportant thing I take out of
this interview.
Tushar Saxena (49:05):
Who the hell is Jeff Lesh?
Who the?
Larry Shea (49:07):
hell is Jeff Lesh Right?
That was a great story because,you know, I think that's what
it's about.
I mean, I look at today's, youknow, young workforce people who
are trying to find their dreamjob.
That's really who we're tryingto reach here.
And I just say to myself, youknow, do they know how to get
that opportunity?
And when that opportunitypresents, do they know how to
(49:28):
take advantage of it?
And I think that's the onething that we've you know've all
been able to do in our careersand I'm hoping that people do it
today.
And the other thing I want tomention about the interview,
which is fascinating, is Jefftalks about the opportunity of
privilege.
Right, that he was given theopportunity because he had the
support of his family to go andpursue these things, and I think
(49:49):
that's important.
But I don't think it should bea detriment when you're going
after your dreams, Because ifyou want it, bad enough.
Like Jeff said, just keep goingafter it.
You've got to want it, and ifyou don't want it, that's fine
too.
You can go find something elseto do.
But Jeff really took the bullby the horns when it was
presented to him, and I thinkthat's fascinating.
Tushar Saxena (50:10):
And the one thing I'll pick up on that is say
that not only did he, not onlydo you pick up on the
opportunities that he had, buthe had fun with them as well.
That's an important part of anycareer that you have, right?
So it shouldn't simply be amatter of, yeah, you're going
there for a paycheck, etc.
Part of it should be you know,you love what you're doing and
he loves what he does.
That there's, it oozes out ofevery statement he makes, which
(50:31):
is which is why I havingconversations.
He's such a great storyteller,but he knows how to tell a joke
and he knows that he's havingfun and he understands that,
yeah, he's a guy who's had a lotof opportunity come his way and
he's taken advantage of thatopportunity, but, most of all,
he's had a great deal of fungetting to know the people he
works with, which is basicallywhat you're going to do.
If you're not going to have funin what you do, why do it?
(50:53):
Yes, absolutely.
Larry Shea (50:54):
Got to love what you do yeah.
Larry Samuels (50:55):
And you know, the other thing that I'll share is
you know, jeff is veryentertaining.
I make fun of him all the timethat he works from, you know, 10
until 3, with two hours forlunch and plenty of time for the
New York Times.
But you know, Jeff is a reallygood person and he made a
comment about integrity andthings of that nature, and the
(51:17):
thing that I'll express is youknow, I think you have to have a
little bit of ego to step intoany competitive environment
where you have to have thestrength to persevere and push
through, et cetera, et cetera.
But moving beyond you know,that little bit that you have to
have.
He really doesn't have muchbeyond that, meaning he doesn't
(51:40):
take things too seriously.
He rolls with things, as youknow, they come his way and you
know, I think his demeanor ofbeing somebody who kind of rolls
with it all the time in everywalk of life has been incredibly
, incredibly helpful to him.
So he's just a genuinely a goodguy.
Larry Shea (52:00):
Yeah, and that matters with relationships,
which we saw in all of hisstories, right?
Is that it's all about?
I knew this guy and they toldme about this job, and so when
you talk about being a good guy,you can't emphasize that enough
.
It's about getting along withpeople, because most of the jobs
I've received, you know, havecome from word of mouth a buddy
telling a buddy and someonegetting it to me.
(52:22):
I mean, that's, that's just howlife works.
So you got to be a good person,even when no one's looking, and
you know, opportunity willhopefully present itself.
Larry Samuels (52:30):
That's exactly right, and you know he.
He is that guy where I wouldhave parties and I'd be worried
about.
You know, there are all thesedifferent groups coming together
or different factions, and thisone likes this and this one
likes that.
Is everybody going to get along?
When I would have parties likethat, the first person I would
call is Jeff and say Jeff, youneed to come work the room.
(52:51):
And he's a freaking genius whenit comes to that.
Tushar Saxena (52:54):
You need to come work the room and he's a
freaking genius when it comes tothat.
He's a glue guy.
Yeah, he's a good guy to haveat a party.
That's for sure.
Larry Samuels (52:59):
So he is doing exactly what he should be doing
for a living and loving everysingle second of it.
Easy for you to say yeah yeahexactly, I'm tired.
It was a long conversation.
I'm worn out already.
So with that, our thanks go outto Jeff for sharing his story
with us and to all of you forjoining this episode of no Wrong
(53:21):
Choices we post about once aweek, so please follow us here
or on Twitter and Instagram atTheFellasNWC.
You can also check out ourwebsite at NoWrongChoicescom for
additional and classic content.
Until next time, remember thereare no wrong choices.
We learn from every experience.
Hello and welcome to no Wrong Choices.
Along with Larry Shea andTushar Saxena, I am Larry
Samuels, and this is a podcastabout the adventures of life
where each episode we'll talk tosomebody who had a dream or a
vision, chased after it andeither got there or got close,
and they're going to share theirstory back with us.
(00:23):
And this week we're talking toa good friend of mine, talent
agent Jeff Lesh, who's been inthe business for decades working
for William Morris, broke inthrough the legendary mailroom
program, which he'll certainlydig into as we get into the
conversation, but a good friendand a great, great storyteller.
Maybe you know too, sherry,you've spent a lot of time with
(00:45):
Jeff over the years.
Do you want to tell us a littlebit about him?
Tushar Saxena (00:48):
I think this is a great way to start us off too,
speaking of Jeff Lesh, your goodbuddy, and I've known him.
Like you said, I've onlyprobably known Jeff for about 10
years and I realized that afterspeaking to him I really
probably didn't know Jeff allthat well at all.
You know, this is all about thestory about how you make it and
how you get to the top, andit's partly luck, it's part
(01:09):
opportunity, and then you knowit's part hard work as well.
So I'll tell you what I had agreat time talking to Jeff.
I mean, I always have a greattime hanging out with Jeff and
talking to him, but this wasreally probably one of the first
times I actually had anopportunity to sit down and get
to know Jeff a little bit better.
That's really what I was reallyhappy with.
Larry Shea (01:24):
Yeah, we've been bumping into Jeff at Super Bowl
parties and special events, for,you know, like, like he said, a
decade or a decade and a half,yeah, and one of the things you
always realize about Jeff iswhat a great storyteller he is,
so what a perfect guy to bringon our program and talk about
his amazing career, because he'shad one.
And it's about, as you said, t,it's about opportunity and then
(01:46):
being prepared once thatopportunity presents itself.
And one of the things you knowthat we're going to try to bring
to our listeners on this showis how you can be prepared to
enter the door as it's crackedfor you, because you know, if
you have that opportunity andyou're not prepared to take to
follow through with it, whatgood is it?
You know?
So we're going to bring yousome entertaining stories, some
(02:06):
interesting people, some greatstorytellers like Jeff, and I
think it's a great way to kickit off and get the ball.
Get the ball rolling with Jeff.
Larry Samuels (02:14):
Flash, I agree, and you know, the other thing
that's so great about thingslike this is sometimes wonderful
opportunities either find us orwe happen to stumble into them
by accident, and in the case ofJeff, I think there's a little
bit of both.
That happens here.
So with that, why don't we stepinto the interview?
Everybody here is Jeff Lesh.
(02:35):
Now joining the conversation ismy close friend and veteran
talent agent, jeff Lesh.
Thank you for joining us.
Jeff lesh (02:43):
I am happy to be here and only just to spend some
time with Tushar.
That's the most important thing.
It really is.
Larry Samuels (02:49):
That is how we feel all the time.
So, jeff, as we were sort ofputting the parameters together
for a show about dreamers andpeople figuring out their path
in life and sort of going afterthat dream and grabbing onto it,
the first person I thought ofwas undoubtedly you, who wakes
(03:12):
up at 10, goes to work at noon,comes home at 3.30, takes a
two-hour lunch, like, ifanybody's living the dream and
has it figured out, it's JeffLesch.
Jeff lesh (03:22):
I can't even explain how you just completely
described my schedule so for youit's you're forgetting the yoga
session.
Tushar Saxena (03:32):
So for you, it's my baby takes the afternoon
train works from noon till threeand then works from works from
noon to noon.
Oh three, I love it so, jeff I,I guess I'll start off with the
first question to you, which isdid you always want to be a
talent agent?
Jeff lesh (03:53):
hell.
No, the answer is I had no ideawhat being a talent agent was.
I had limited experience withit, didn't know.
I wanted to be a pharmacist youwanted to be a pharmacist.
Tushar Saxena (04:05):
Why a pharmacist I?
Jeff lesh (04:06):
want.
Well, my father had a pharmacyin jersey.
It was a pharmacy and liquorstore and I could have been
either a drunk or a pharmacist.
So I wanted to be a pharmacistand I turned out to be a.
The pharmacist part didn't workout.
Thank you, the uh clearly,clearly clearly, clearly.
So I went to the university ofof Rhode Island and I could not
pass organic chemistry.
(04:27):
So the good people at theUniversity of Rhode Island
suggested that I find somethingelse to do with my time.
You can either you can eitherfind another major or go to a
different school.
Don't come back here.
So I I switched to become a?
Uh a journalism and historymajor, and got some internships
(04:51):
at local television stations andended up um, uh.
This time of year is like theperfect way of uh of talk this
time of uh of of years, theperfect, perfect time to talk
about it, because I uh got a jobworking at the 96 Olympic games
in Atlanta for NBC.
Tushar Saxena (05:10):
Oh, wow.
Jeff lesh (05:11):
And it was through a friend I, who's a friend of
Larry's as well.
Um, he went to Emory.
He called me and said they'redesperate for people to come
down and work at the Olympics.
And I said you know, desperate,perfect.
Larry Samuels (05:26):
I and work at the Olympics.
And I said, you know, desperate, perfect, I'm perfect, what I
think, I think Jeff Lesh.
Jeff lesh (05:29):
Desperate when you were desperate for someone,
clearly because of thisinterview, Larry, desperate.
So I got into my father's 93Buick Century and I drove to
Atlanta that night 15 hours, andI ended up working for NBC for
the whole of the Olympics.
But it wasn't just, you know,just during the games.
I was there for, I think, sixor seven weeks, you know, with
(05:51):
the prep and then witheverything else.
And I was a PA.
I was, you know, run get mecoffee.
Uh, go get donuts.
One box for the crew, one boxfor Al Roker.
Um, it was, it was.
Al was much bigger at the time,we would.
It was basically go pick up, uh, mary lou retton at the airport
(06:11):
.
Um, it was the craziest job.
I met everybody.
I was in the park when the bombblew up.
I remember that I, I was.
I had breakfast with richardjewel that morning.
Wow, you guys remember he wasthe guy who was accused of
blowing it up and we all knew hedidn't do it, you know.
But it was like it was, youknow, an absolutely crazy,
(06:32):
amazing, awesome summer.
Larry Shea (06:34):
So hold on, so let's back up to that moment, because
this is the critical thing,this is what the crux of the
biscuit is with this show is howdid that happen?
The crux of the biscuit.
So was it a phone call?
Tell us about them, cause thathad to be the biggest break of
your life in terms of yourprofessional career right there,
that phone call that drove youdown to Atlanta to get this job,
(06:55):
and then you were willing to dopretty much anything, correct?
Jeff lesh (06:58):
Exactly Okay.
So the background is I had Ididn't know anybody in the
entertainment business.
So I grew up.
I always loved television,right, I always loved TV.
I'm an insomniac, as Larry willtell you, so I was up all night
watching TV.
After a while my parents gaveup.
I didn't have a bedtime, Iwould just be up watching TV all
night.
So it was always my favoritething.
(07:21):
But I didn't know someone couldmake a career out of it.
It just never occurred to me.
So um I, when I switched majors, I was able to get this
internship at the local newsstation on my own.
But that summer, uh, which youknow, I didn't have a, I didn't
have anything lined up.
So I figured out a way througha friend of a friend of a friend
(07:42):
of a friend, which is whateverybody does to to get an
internship.
Do you guys remember the MTVBeach House?
Yeah, absolutely.
Of course, sure Right.
So I ended up getting aninternship at the MTV Beach
House and my summer was going tobe spent I think it was at the
Hamptons that year, just kind ofbeing a gopher or whatever
interns do at the MTV BeachHouse, being a gopher or
(08:07):
whatever interns do at the MTVbeach house.
Um, and then our friend Craigcalls me up and says hey, he
gives me the desperation phonecall and says they need people
and I and they pay.
So I wasn't going to get paidfor the internship and it was
with NBC at the Olympics and notMTV.
I mean I'm sure there wouldhave been other perks, but you
know, I'm like, yeah, why not,let's do this.
So that phone call got me rightinto that car and down I went
(08:28):
and I mean it was, it wasawesome.
I did everything.
Uh, I was at every.
I was at so many of the events.
I met every famous person whowas there.
I was like I was bob costas'sdriver, like it was just wow,
that's great, and I didn't knowanything.
We get there and they hand uskeys to a brand new cadillac and
a card where you can get a cokeand a tiny little broadcaster
(08:53):
in atlanta exactly that's goodwell, the relationships okay
easy, easy, I mean.
Larry Samuels (09:01):
The relationships that you made through that
experience must have beeninvaluable and you know, knowing
your story as well as I do.
If I remember correctly fromthere, you became a page at NBC
which must have, you know,accelerated, you know your
network and opened up that manymore doors.
(09:21):
Did you jump right from theOlympics to the PAGE program?
Jeff lesh (09:26):
No.
So at the end of the Olympics Ibecame the.
This is something that I kindof learned is always be there
when someone turns around andneeds something, no matter how
stupid it is, and always be thefirst guy that someone thinks of
.
You want to be the person thatsays oh crap, get Larry.
Oh crap, get Tushar.
Oh crap, get Larry.
(09:50):
Oh crap, get Tushar.
Oh crap, get Jeff.
It's one of your best qualities, jeff.
I must say I had very few,that's true.
So they, you know you alwayswant to be that guy.
So I became that guy down inAtlanta and at the end of it
they said listen, are you goinghome?
Do you have any plans?
Short story is I got hired towork at the Democratic National
Convention, which was Clinton'ssecond nomination, in Chicago,
(10:10):
and I ended up going there andthey were launching MSNBC.
So I was there when the firstbroadcast and I was, you know.
I was there when, you know,clinton got the nomination
balloons fall, all that.
And then I had plans to gooverseas for a year abroad and
they said, well, just keep intouch.
And through that I got aninternship at Dateline.
(10:33):
So my last year at school I wasjust barely doing any classes
and I drove down to 30 Rock andI would work for Dateline and
then, when I graduated WithStone Phillips.
With Stone Phillips and JanePaul Wow, who were very nice.
They were lovely and they werereally nice to the interns,
which I've learned to judgepeople by how nice they are to
(10:57):
the people that are below them.
That's very interesting andevery one of quality I ever met
was like that.
They were all the people thatare nice to their assistants,
that are nice to the interns andspecifically nice to the pages
at NBC which I'll get to.
Those were the quality people.
So I graduated on a Wednesday,thursday, I had a page interview
(11:19):
which I don't know if you guysknow about it, but it's a really
complicated program to get intoand if I didn't have these
other jobs, I it, but it's areally complicated program to
get into and if I didn't havethese other jobs I never would
have gotten into it?
Larry Samuels (11:30):
I never would have heard of it, Jeff, for
context, and I don't know howmany people are familiar with
the program.
There are so many stars, somany celebrities, so many CEOs
who have come out of thatprogram.
Just name a few to give peoplecontext.
Jeff lesh (11:42):
Oh God, Just name a few to give people context.
Oh God, Brandon Tartagoff, MikeEisner On the acting side,
Regis Philbin and more recently,Aubrey Plaza from Parks and
Recreation.
Tushar Saxena (11:56):
They were pages, I think.
Larry Samuels (11:58):
Superman was a page, if I remember correctly.
Oh, my God.
Jeff lesh (12:01):
Yeah, chris, they were all, but that's just the
top of it.
Most, like most of them arebehind the scenes.
People, like most of them, just, you know, they went on to not,
you know, not the headlinenames, but the people running
networks and the people doing,you know, doing the work of tv
and film.
Larry Shea (12:19):
so many of them were paid it's a big deal everything
you're talking about isrelationships, right, it's like
the people you knew and thethings that happened along the
way, right.
It just seems to be a generaltheme in how you get from one
point to another too and and youknow larry, I know larry has
this attitude too like if youwere.
Jeff lesh (12:38):
You know, I don't know how much I can swear on
this, but if you were a jackassto people along the way,
everybody remembers you as thejackass.
Larry Samuels (12:45):
Yep, If you were cool everybody.
Jeff lesh (12:48):
Oh, I know, that guy bring them in, but but you, know
.
Larry Samuels (12:50):
Interestingly, and I'll just throw this out
there you learn from thosepeople too, Like I'm a believer
that you learn from every singleexperience in life, and when I
look back as my time as amanager all those horrible
people that I dealt with alongthe way they taught me just as
much as the good people, and I'msure you had those same
experiences.
Jeff lesh (13:08):
Oh God, yeah, I've, larry.
You had a.
Well, guys, this is I met.
Larry had an internship.
Did you have an internshipthere, larry?
Larry Samuels (13:16):
I started as an intern and then I just you know
picked up every project Ipossibly could, similar to you,
working in the studios.
Eventually I was freelance PAand then I was a full-time PA
who was paid like a freelance PA.
So I just did everything Ipossibly could Well.
Jeff lesh (13:33):
the reason why I say that is because Larry had this
boss, who will remain nameless,but he was a jerk-off.
Larry Samuels (13:39):
I almost fought him in a hallway.
That is a true story.
Jeff lesh (13:43):
I really did Well, to be fair to be fair, it would
have been a very short fight.
Larry Samuels (13:48):
Yes, who would have won?
Wait a minute.
Jeff lesh (13:54):
It would have been two hits.
It would have been Larryhitting him and then Larry
hitting him again.
Larry Samuels (14:00):
That's exactly right.
This MF drove me out of NBCbecause I was going to kill him.
I needed to do it for my ownsafety.
Jeff lesh (14:08):
So he didn't do time.
But anyway, the point, goingback to what Larry was saying,
is I learned a lot from that guybecause I saw how he acted, I
saw how he treated people and,yeah, he was really good at his
primary job.
Tushar Saxena (14:21):
But eventually you become expendable in that
primary job right right, andit's how you act to people, is
how it is how you're judged, andgood lord so at what moment,
then you know, after all this,all these, all these experiences
(14:41):
you've had, did you you say toyourself you know what I really
love, what I'm doing here, thisis the, this is the career I
want to go for.
Jeff lesh (14:49):
So I loved it.
I was at.
I was working at at the time itwas Conan O'Brien show.
I was working at RosieO'Donnell show.
I was working at Saturday nightlive.
I was working at like I was atevery single Saturday night live
90, you know 98, 97, 98, 99.
I was like at every one, um,and it was like it was easily
the greatest job in the world,because all the women were
(15:11):
gorgeous and all the guys lookedlike me, which means I looked
like you guys.
Like it was, it was, it was.
Hey thank you.
So, uh, it was.
It was absolutely great.
So I made 10 bucks an hour, nohealth insurance, and we just
never stopped working andanytime anybody turned around
(15:31):
and need something, I would bethere and everybody wanted.
Basically, what you do is yougive tours to tourists.
Right, you'd have people fromWisconsin come in and you'd be
reading from a script.
Like you know, this is whereSeinfeld is on NBC and it makes
a million dollars every 30seconds for commercials.
(15:52):
And NBC makes 95% of its moneyfrom commercials and some yokel
would always ask well, where'sthe other 5% come?
And I would mix it up.
I'd say gambling andprostitution, and eventually
they suggested that I don't dotours anymore.
I was, I was scaring thetourists from wisconsin so so
(16:17):
everybody was going.
Then you, what you do is youapply for assignments and you,
you, you go and work for um ofthe shows SNL or Conan or
whatever.
And I looked around and sawthat the people who got hired
after they were done with theirpage program because it's only a
year long all were doingbehind-the-scenes stuff, like
(16:40):
they weren't doing the glamourspots of you know being down at
the SNL desk and hanging outwith George Clooney.
They were working in marketing,they were working in PR, they
were working for news.
They were doing that stuff.
So I took all of the non-glamourassignments and I think it was
around that time that someonecame to me and said hey, look, I
(17:03):
know you got a little whileleft in your page program, but
do you want to work for news?
And I took a job as a newsproducer and I had, like, I
spent the summer in Pittsburgh.
I was working with GeraldoRivera at the time and I was you
know I was, I wasn't, I was a23 year old news producer.
It was stupid that they justgave me this job.
(17:26):
I can't imagine what youlearned from Geraldo.
Larry Samuels (17:29):
Geraldo, I learned never.
Jeff lesh (17:32):
No, you know what I learned from him?
I learned never to be inanyone's shot Like get the fuck
out of the way.
Right and the truth doesn'treally matter At the time, but
it was mostly like you could doa montage of Geraldo, like you
could literally do a montage.
Let's get out of my shot.
(17:52):
You can literally do a montage.
I love it, but he was a niceenough guy and it was, you know
it was.
But he was a nice enough guyand, uh, it was, you know it was
.
He was doing.
This was before he kind of losthis mind with the, with the,
with the right wing stuff, andhe was, you know he was, he was
cool, um, and I remember, beforeI forget, one of the greatest
(18:17):
jobs I had at snl.
I don't know if you guysremember this, but in 97 98 99,
the hottest, hottest tickets inNew York were Yankees, red Sox,
the producers, on Broadway withRoderick and Nathan.
Tushar Saxena (18:30):
Lane, nathan Lane .
Yeah, yeah, sure.
Jeff lesh (18:33):
And Rosie O'Donnell's show.
Rosie O'Donnell's tickets werelike gold.
Larry Samuels (18:38):
Really, did they know she was an asshole?
Were they aware of this or no?
Well, I can get back to thatlady.
Never mind, never mind.
Jeff lesh (18:48):
No, that's the one I can actually talk about.
She was terrible she was atyrant.
She was awful to her people.
She had people fired, whateverRemind me of that so I can get
back to that because there's amayor call button, so anyway, it
was the hottest ticket in theworld, so I became like the
ticket guy.
Someone decided I should be theone in charge of the tickets
for Rosie O'Donnell.
(19:10):
I was trading these things foreverything under the sun, like
front row seats at the producers.
I was like a concierge, likejust getting.
The executives at NBC wouldcall me and ask me to get
tickets for rosie o'donnell show, like high level people.
Her brother once called me wholarry knows, and asked me to get
(19:31):
them tickets to her, to hissister's show yes did she not
want him at the show?
she didn't, she didn't, hedidn't want to bother her, you
know, yeah, so he bothered youum yeah but it was like I would.
I would.
It was the greatest thing inthe world.
It was like you had the keys tothe kingdom.
I only had the job for, likeyou know, two months, but it was
like the greatest thing in theworld.
Larry Shea (19:52):
It's going to go on Jeff's tombstone it's going to
be once was the keeper of thecastle, exactly.
Jeff lesh (20:01):
So to get back to that, she was a tyrant and she
was terrible.
Later in life, at WilliamMorris, I met her and it was you
know.
It's 15 years later and she,like, acknowledged how horrible
she was.
She was navigating the halls ofNBC.
When does the moment come thatyou say, ok, I've been doing
this?
Larry Samuels (20:19):
I've been paying my dues.
There's got to be a little bitmore, or is there something else
that I want to chase?
Tushar Saxena (20:35):
Wait before you answer that question, jeff.
What was the time period we'retalking about now?
You know you've done all yourexperience stuff.
Now you're you've essentiallyhad your keeper of the castle
moment and then you're going tomove forward again.
So how many, how long of a timeperiod are we talking about
there?
Jeff lesh (20:51):
so I was at nbc, between paging and producing and
whatnot, from 96 until may 2000.
And in may 2000 so I was, Ibecame a promotions producer.
I was working on news andnightly, and I looked around and
saw that everyone was in their40s, everyone was divorced,
(21:13):
everyone worked 9000 hours a day, everyone was miserable.
Everybody was waking up.
The only people who weremarried still were people who
were married to other people inthe same business.
Sure Right.
So I didn't care about that.
But I was kind of looking at myfuture.
I'm like do I want to be wakingup at four in the morning
(21:33):
listening to NPR for that nextstory and trying to figure out
how to produce it for NBC News?
But I had this dilemma becauseI was basically living a dream.
Like, I wanted to work at NBC.
It's NBC, it's the best and thebest of NBC News.
So I was.
(21:56):
I went to my boss and I said youknow, what else can I do?
And so she introduced me to.
She liked me, so she introducedme to this guy and his name was
Henry Reich and Henry was the.
He was the.
He worked for William MorrisAgency and he was the.
He represented anchors andreporters and-air personalities.
(22:21):
He was the agent for the on-airpersonalities and, uh, you know
, his client list includeseverybody from Joe Scarborough
to Lawrence O'Donnell to to JimKramer, to, it's just he's, he's
the best of the business.
And I became friendly with himas he would come in and out.
And after a while he turned tome and he said you know, what do
(22:44):
you?
What do you want to do?
And I said you know, what youdo sounds kind of interesting.
And he says well, you know, youseem marginally intelligent.
Why don't you come work in ourmailroom?
And I said I am marginallyintelligent, right.
Larry Shea (22:59):
So so what?
So what happened?
So this is all right, this isit right here?
Right because you're, you'reabout to make a leap.
You know we can all feel thathappening.
And how does it happen?
How does this?
How does this, uh,transformation occur?
Jeff lesh (23:12):
uh, another friend of , actually of larry's introduced
me to someone else where I wasat the same time offered a job.
This is 99.
I'm sorry, this is like late 99, 2000, may of 2000, like around
there.
And the job was to work withNBC's new web services in San
(23:32):
Francisco, which is like one ofmy favorite cities, making like
at the time I was, you know, Istill wasn't making a ton of
dough dough, but it was makingclose to six figures car shares,
like the whole thing.
Moving to San Francisco, whichis one of my favorite cities,
and I had that on the table, andthen I was offered a spot in
(23:53):
the William Morris Mailroom,making $17,500 a year, year and
um, it is.
I don't know if you guys knowor know what it is or have heard
of it, but it is a real as, as,as cool as the page program is.
The way morris mailroom is likeit's really the keys to the
king, really, it's really it.
It's harder to get into thanharvard business school.
(24:15):
It is.
It is the, the.
So I don't have the job yet,right?
So so I was just offered aninterview, it's all I was
offered and I just you know soso I was.
So I was offered that one jobin San Francisco which is a no
brainer to take, like it's atotal no brainer.
And I remember I was talking tomy, I was about to move out of
(24:36):
my house, so I'm still livingwith my parents, I'm 25.
And my son, I said to my father, you know well, anyway, I got
the interview, um, I end upgetting, I end up getting in.
It was like a panel interview.
There were like these sixsenior agents of like really
famous people, um and um, I, Imake it, I they, they offer me
(24:58):
the job.
I mean, henry was super helpful.
That guy, you know just I guess, really went to bat for him.
And I remember saying to myfather I'm like, okay, this is
the job in San Francisco, or Icould do this job.
And my father, was a pharmacistin Jersey had.
He didn't know from the internet, like he didn't know from NBCI
or whatever, but he had heard ofthe william morris mailroom, uh
(25:22):
, and he said, no, you gottatake that job the one at william
morris, the one at williammorris and he says I said yeah,
pop, but it means I gotta stayhome and live with you and mom.
He goes don't leave me alonewith that I've met your mom and
I understand completely.
Larry Shea (25:40):
There you go.
Jeff lesh (25:41):
So I took that gig and you know.
A side note is have you guysever heard of NBCI?
Tushar Saxena (25:52):
Well, that's exactly the next question.
When he talked about inflectionpoints, you chose to go right.
Larry Samuels (25:57):
You could have gone left.
Jeff lesh (25:59):
Yeah, but we know what happens after you went
right.
Larry Samuels (26:04):
What would have happened?
Jeff lesh (26:06):
if you had made that other decision.
Well, I always say like I madethe best decision in the world.
But who knows, I might havebeen in Silicon Valley and I
might have met, you know—.
Larry Samuels (26:11):
That's true.
Jeff lesh (26:12):
I might have met Elon Musk.
You know what I mean.
Tushar Saxena (26:15):
You might have created.
Jeff lesh (26:15):
Google.
Larry Shea (26:15):
Why would I be?
Jeff lesh (26:16):
talking to you?
Yeah, exactly.
Tushar Saxena (26:18):
If I were to have , it would have been.
Jeff lesh (26:20):
Jugal, it would have been Jugal.
Larry Samuels (26:24):
The Jewish Google Say.
You're searching for Jewsonline.
You're in the door, exactly,you're pushing the mail cart.
Jeff lesh (26:30):
You're literally pushing the mail cart, are you?
Larry Samuels (26:34):
told beforehand that this is what you're going
to be doing for the next sixmonths, 12 months, three years.
How long is your sentence goinginto this?
Jeff lesh (26:43):
There is no sentence.
It is a sentence without end.
So basically you work pushing amail cart so I remember you
guys sent me over a list ofhazing and things like that.
There's no hazing per se, okay,but you are making very little
dough in the most expensive cityin the world and you there is
(27:05):
no prospect of making more doughbecause there's no guarantees.
It's not like, you know, beinga being an intern in a law firm,
where you start off at acertain level and then you go up
.
It's got like a 97 percentattrition rate.
Tushar Saxena (27:20):
Wow, wow.
Jeff lesh (27:20):
So, excuse me, so, um , you do that for six months and
then you become a floatingassistant, which means you
basically, whenever a regularassistant to an agent is not
around, you fill in for that day.
So after you push a mail cartaround, you kind of meet as many
people as you can, um, and yousee the craziness that's going
(27:42):
on people yelling at people,people screaming at people,
people.
You know it's not just likeentourage, but it's a little bit
like entourage right?
Tushar Saxena (27:49):
did you ever see the movie swimming, swimming
with sharks?
Jeff lesh (27:52):
so buddy ackerman was not an agent, he was a, he was
a producer, right, so we didn'thave a guy like that that he was
based on.
Um, uh, shoot, who was the guyhe was based on?
uh, scott, scott rudin thatsounds right yeah that sounds
right he was based on him.
(28:13):
Um yeah, where from the outsideyou think he's the greatest guy
in the world, but when you workfor him or had to work with him
, you realize what a crazyperson he was so that's part of
the pay in the do stuff too thatis talking about you know it
is the paying, the do stuff.
But 90 of the people werereally not like normal people.
You know you had crazies andthey were fun, but they were,
(28:36):
you know it's.
Larry Shea (28:37):
It's the entertainment business there's
going to be crazies.
Larry Samuels (28:40):
You know you've been pushing the mail cart
around for a while and youunderstand the culture.
You're getting a feel You're afloating agent Like.
When was the moment whereyou're like, ok, I can do this
and I want to do this, andcollectively with that?
When did you know that youcould do it and that you were
(29:01):
the right guy?
Jeff lesh (29:04):
Well, I'll let you know.
Like what made you different?
Larry Samuels (29:09):
What made you unique from?
Jeff lesh (29:10):
the others that were pushing the cards too.
One of the comedy desks openedup and, honestly, one of the big
things that made me differentwas privilege.
I was able to save my dough.
I was able to live with myparents.
I didn't have to go and take ajob making tons of money.
I was able to afford to to dothings you know, because I'm
(29:36):
lucky that I had the backup, um,so I was able to make very
little money.
You get on a desk.
I got on a desk of a guy namedum Brian Stern, who was a young
agent in the comedy departmentand I was his assistant for, uh,
three and a half years and inthat three and a half years,
everybody from my mailroom classwent.
(29:57):
They got jobs on wall street.
They got jobs for Goldman Sachs.
They went and got jobs forstudios.
They went and got jobs for, youknow, they did a.
They did a whole bunch ofdifferent things.
Most of them every one of themwho wants to be in the
entertainment industry is stillin the entertainment industry,
but for the, for the most part,they, you know they left.
They got jobs where you couldmake dough.
Uh, and I had the thankfully,the backup of my parents and the
(30:21):
fact that I, you know, sockedaway every dime I made and
bought a place, um, so I wasable to do it.
So, um, you know, and then so Iworked for this guy, um, and we
had this amazing roster oftalent, um, you know, all tons
of writers on Saturday nightlive, uh, we worked with Susie
(30:42):
Essman, from, uh, from, curbyour Enthusiasm, who was just,
you know, getting huge.
And uh, uh, jennifer JenniferHudson, who was Dreamgirls and
and blowing up and becoming astar, and there was some
Samantha Bee, who was on thedaily show and then, you know,
you know, her now is having herown show.
Um, and we were working with allof these, these amazing young
(31:03):
kind of talent coming out of newyork, and you know, we were.
We were getting them jobs on tvand launching their television
shows and and casting, and, youknow, doing all that and my, you
know, primary area of interestwas comedy.
Um, so, while my boss wasgetting them television shows, I
(31:27):
started booking them in clubsand in theaters and for uh,
corporations.
And I discovered that thecorporations, you know, they ask
Willie Sutton, you know, why doyou rob banks?
And he said that's where themoney is.
And I said, you know, thesecorporations want to have
comedians in, especially cleancomedians, and they have tons of
(31:49):
dough.
And you know, they ask how muchsomeone costs and you can
always say, well, how much doyou have?
And they would tell me, and I'dgive them somebody you know,
correct to put it.
And I just started booking allof these you know comedians of
corporations and eventually, youknow, after three and a half
(32:09):
years of doing this, my boss,who was this wonderful woman,
came to me and said listen, Ineed your help because I I I've
been going to Whoopi Goldberg'stelevision uh, shows.
She hasn't been on the road andI've been going to her shows
all this time and I have afamily I can't really go anymore
.
Can you go and be kind of likeher guy and cover shows?
(32:34):
And I said, sure, becausethat's what I learned Always say
yes, you know.
Um, so I started going on theroad with whoopie in 2002 or
three and basically have been onthe road with her ever since.
And it was just because I wasthe right guy at the right place
(32:55):
at the right time.
So it's all luck to answer yourquestion.
It's like just always be thereand always say yes.
So it's all luck to answer yourquestion.
It's like just always be thereand always say yes.
And then the same thinghappened with, you know, all of
the other comedians werepresented.
Like we just I was just alwayskind of in the room and there,
which was cool.
And then one of the one of thefun ones I got to do is I went
(33:15):
out to LA when I was just out inthe mailroom and I was just
starting to do all of this stuffand, uh, we had become friendly
and she introduced me to thecomedian that night who was
Mitch Hedberg, um, who you knowis is an absolute legend.
This is right before, uh, rightbefore he passed away.
(33:37):
It was like maybe three or fourweeks before when he was on the
show.
But it was like, and like I'min the room with these like guys
who I just like idolize, andI'm like I want to be in this
business.
This is fun, this is great, youknow, and you know it's kind of
funny because the work, thework is during the day, is sort
(34:01):
of during the day, but the realwork is like being with these
people at night, going to theshows, being with the buyers,
being with the comedians.
That's the, that's the actualjob, and you basically just want
to be someone that can tolerate.
Tushar Saxena (34:16):
So all that experience you had doing the
behind the scenes jobs, allthose you know, all those desk
jobs, that really prepared youthen for this portion of hey,
you got to learn how to gladhand people Right Pretty much.
Jeff lesh (34:29):
It's like it that is.
I was the world's worstassistant.
I was terrible, Larry, and Ialways joke that you know I
don't know how to use awhiteboard and you didn't know
what a whiteboard was.
I don't know how to use awhiteboard and you didn't know
what a whiteboard was I didn'teven know how to use it.
Tushar Saxena (34:43):
You didn't know what it was.
Jeff lesh (34:46):
It's true, and I was literally terrible at the
correspondence, at the writingletters, at the, you know, but
the clients loved me, the buyersloved me and the agents loved
me and the buyers loved me andthe agents loved me and could
always trust me.
So, even though I was terribleat all of the stuff, you know,
(35:06):
like the actual job, like if youread the job description, you
know of all the multitasking andthe scheduling and the.
You know all the stuff.
That's the actual job.
I was abysmal and the one thingI learned is that all of the
guys that made it guys and girlswho made it to agent they were
terrible at being an assistant.
That's interesting.
The ones that were really goodat being assistants are shitty
(35:30):
agents.
Larry Shea (35:31):
This is great.
This is great.
So talk, talk about the job,because that's key.
Like you know, we're talkingabout what a, what an amazing
accomplishment and what aprofessional you became quote,
unquote, professional and youknow you have to do this job.
So are you getting calls frompeople to book your talent,
basically, or are you shoppingyour talent and when, when you
(35:53):
make those deals, are they?
I'll take any deal for thisclient, but this one will only
do you know.
Jeff lesh (35:58):
Radio.
Larry Shea (35:59):
City Music Hall type of thing, money.
Jeff lesh (36:01):
And then there's gilbert godfrey, where someone
calls me and said, gilbert, Ihave a job for you.
Before I hang the phone up,he's like, and book me at the
motel six, wait, wait, I.
I got two gilbert.
(36:22):
I got two gilbert stories thatare fun.
So, oh my god, he was a so youknow again legendary comedian
that everybody knows and he'she's been a william morris
client his entire career, fromthe time he was I think he was
16 or 17 when he first got onstage so he's and he's like in
his 60s now.
Larry Shea (36:40):
He's not a young man , right.
Jeff lesh (36:42):
No, no, he's been so anyway.
But handsome, oh handsome.
So I'll get to that.
So he is notoriously cheap,like.
Notoriously cheap, like, if youever want to have fun, go watch
his documentary.
He leaves hotels.
Tushar Saxena (37:02):
He, he has all the hotel soap from every hotel
over the past 45 years.
Jeff lesh (37:05):
It's amazing.
He has every dime he ever made.
He has every dime he ever made.
So, um, I, I, I had to.
He was playing somewhere and Ihad to book him in a hotel.
And I'm like Gilbert, where doyou want to stay?
The Marriott or the Hilton oranything?
And he goes I don't know, bookme in the cheapest place you can
where I don't have to sleepwith a rifle, which was great.
(37:27):
So my favorite Gilbert story isI'm working at the desk and I'm
working, it's like it's a longday and you, you work 10 hour
days.
When you're at the, when you'reat the desk, you, yes, you
start it.
You start at 9 30, but youbasically work until whenever
everybody goes home and you'reworking on la time, so it's, you
(37:47):
know, could be nine o'clock orwhatever.
So it's late at night and, uh,I get a call.
Do you guys remember the BostonPhoenix?
They were like the villagevoice of Boston, not real.
Tushar Saxena (37:57):
Not really, no, I don't know, I've heard of it,
but for the purposes of this,conversation.
Jeff lesh (38:01):
I do absolutely so I get a call and they say you know
, are you Gilbert Gottfried'sagent?
I go, yeah, you know.
Larry Samuels (38:12):
Not who wants to know?
Jeff lesh (38:17):
I should have said I was like oh boy so they go um
well, I'm, you know, so and so,so and so, from the boston
phoenix, and we just want to letyou know that we ran a contest
and over all of greater NewEngland and we have named
(38:37):
Gilbert Gottfried as the leastsexy man in the world.
Larry Samuels (38:40):
Wow, who did he run?
Jeff lesh (38:44):
against.
Do you know?
Larry Samuels (38:46):
Was it a write-in ballot or were there other?
Jeff lesh (38:48):
contestants.
Evidently he won, going away, Idon't know.
All right.
So I start cracking up.
I go, okay, and he's like well,we would like to interview him,
we'd like to do whatever.
So I call gilbert and I go well, I have good news in bed.
The good news is you won anaward.
(39:10):
So I tell him and he laughs,his, he thinks this is the
funniest thing in the world.
So he gets, he gets interviewed, it gets where I, I gets, he
goes on conan promoting, he goeson, he's on stern all the time.
At the time that he's talkingabout, yeah, I got so much
booking, so many, so much playout of this.
(39:31):
It's crazy.
Like he started doing something.
So, anyway, it was like it wasa huge, great thing.
So cut to the following year.
Um, you know that it all dieddown and I forgot about it a
little bit.
And I get a call from theboston phoenix and you know, hey
, jeff, it's so and so.
So I'm like, oh, how you doing?
He's like, well, listen, I havebad news, uh.
So, anyway, he gives me, hegives me the information he's
(39:54):
going to give me.
And then I call gilbert and Isay gilbert, I have, uh, I, I
have also bad news and good news.
The bad news is that you didn'twin the award for least sexy
man in the world.
He goes, oh, that is bad newsand I go, well, the other news
is that they've named the awardthe Gilbert Gottfried I felt
(40:18):
where you were going.
Larry Samuels (40:22):
I didn't mean to laugh at your punchline.
Jeff lesh (40:24):
It will be called this.
So again I got him a new youknow Wow, but that's just the
fun with Gilbert.
One of those guys was up foranything.
Tushar Saxena (40:34):
So, jeff, look, obviously you've had a very,
very, you've had a very, a veryfun career thus far, uh up until
this moment.
Jeff lesh (40:43):
Yeah, it's had its moments.
All right, it's fine.
Now everything is up at the end.
Larry Samuels (40:47):
Yeah, this is not that moment how else, you know,
as we begin to, you begin topivot towards giving you your
day back.
You know what are some of theother things you've seen along
the way that that have changed,like how has the industry
evolved along the?
Jeff lesh (41:04):
way.
That's awesome.
That's the awesome part.
It hasn't.
It's the same business fromwhen William Morris got off the
boat in 1890.
Wow.
When William Morris got off theboat in 1898.
Wow.
Larry Samuels (41:13):
Like here's a famous person.
Jeff lesh (41:15):
Here's a famous person I would like them to show
up somewhere and then they willget paid for it.
Now, how has that changed?
Now they do it by Zoomsometimes.
Now they might, you know,satellite in, but it's all the
same thing.
It's literally the samebusiness and I almost think that
, aside from that, it's one ofthose rare disruption proof
(41:41):
businesses, because thedisruptions only benefit the
person doing it.
Like it's not much of anoutside disruption, like the
only the only part of it that'slike disruptable is.
You know you know people goingdirectly to talent.
You know you know people goingdirectly to talent.
But I have now worked with somuch talent and the thing I have
(42:03):
learned is they have nointerest in that.
They want someone to handlethings for them, and it's been
that way for 120 years.
Like they just they just don'twant to deal with it.
It's like you pay for a service.
Tushar Saxena (42:14):
If you have one piece of advice, let's put aside
being always available.
If you have one piece of advice, for someone who wants to get
in.
Jeff lesh (42:21):
I have different advice for you than I would have
for the other two.
Larry Samuels (42:25):
But it's a long separate private conversation
that we really shouldn't have onthe air.
Jeff lesh (42:31):
No, no, there's an adage in the business which is
um, you go through four, four orfive stages of a career, which
is which can be in any business,which is like who the hell is
jeff lesh, and then get me jefflesh, and then get me a young
jeff lesh, and then who the hellis jeff, what stage are you?
Larry Samuels (42:50):
at now.
Jeff Right, where are?
Jeff lesh (42:53):
you.
Would you guys like to buy somesupplements?
Tushar Saxena (42:57):
I'm always looking for a salesman, jeff
Exactly.
Someone get me, jeff Lesh.
Jeff lesh (43:02):
My advice are that things haven't changed.
You always want to be the ohcrap, get me that guy.
You always want to be.
When someone turns around andthey need something, you always
want to be the person that canprovide them with what they need
, even if they don't know theyneed it Like you.
You, there should never be aninstance the second you're not
(43:22):
someone's first phone call, thenit starts to fade Like.
You want to be the person theycall for the advice.
You want to be the person thatthey call for um, the biggest
thing to the smallest thing.
If you're that person, you'llalways be in demand, interesting
and you know, that's kind of.
That's kind of how I would sayit.
Larry Samuels (43:41):
You just and and you want to be that guy, and I
guess like if your friend callsyou and says he wants to
interview you for you want tosay yes the.
The question I'll end on ifthere is somebody out there who
is 19, 20 years old and they'retrying to figure out what their
path is going ahead you know ayou know would you recommend
(44:04):
that they give it a shot and howwould you recommend that they
get started?
Jeff lesh (44:10):
Okay, um, the.
The.
I saw again attrition rate of99%.
So many thousand people walkedin front of me with a mail card
and then went to do somethingelse, or worked with me at NBC
(44:32):
and then went to do somethingelse else, or worked with me at
NBC and then went to dosomething else.
It is, it's really aperseverance game and you have
to have the wherewithal andbacking of you know,
understanding family.
We had Harvard lawyers come in,people who went to Harvard law
school and they would last threemonths.
(44:52):
They would last three monthsand they'd walk in anybody ivy
league, anybody who wants to gointo the entertainment business
who went to an ivy league school.
I'm like get out of here, justgo away.
It's an industry of c students.
It really is.
It's an industry of reallypeople who love entertainment
but did crappy in school.
Go do something.
(45:14):
If you are a, an ivy leagueperson with a, with an
unbelievable pedigree who bustedhis butt, no matter where you
were from, if you like, end upin the entertainment business.
You failed like you should be,changing the world I really
believe that, like, give me aguy, give me a girl from a state
(45:34):
school who was a C student whobusted her ass over someone from
, like, a well-known college anyday of the week?
Wow, because that's not theskill set.
It's not the skill set.
You want someone who's willingto bust their ass.
You want somebody who's willingto put clients first above all
else, to put clients first aboveall else.
And you know, and and be arelationship person who you know
(45:56):
is someone that you want tohigh five at midnight after, you
know, at a comedy show.
You don't want.
You know it's not, it's not foreverybody, um, and the money
doesn't come until deep into itas opposed to other.
You know, you, you, you.
There's other perks.
I mean, you get two weeks offat christmas and you know the
(46:18):
whole industry shuts down andyou know larry always makes fun
of me that I spend the month ofdecember in europe.
Larry Samuels (46:24):
Um, well, you do right that's true, and you go to
work at 10 and you leave atfour and you read the New York
Times from 1 until 3.
Jeff lesh (46:33):
I do and the perks are.
You're at like I'll get a callfrom the head of music say meet
me at my box at Madison SquareGarden.
We're going to the Rihannaconcert tonight or we're going
to the Tom Petty concert.
May he rest in peace.
But like all of that happens,like the perks are the fun of
(46:54):
the job, there is not afinancial reward for much longer
than other high profile jobs,if that makes sense so I guess
the the takeaway is hustle,perseverance, find a way to get
to that door, but in the end itis absolutely worth it.
Larry Samuels (47:13):
Uh, sure, to put words into your mouth, it feels
like that's what you're saying.
Jeff lesh (47:21):
I have had nothing but fun, and if I didn't do all
of these things, I never wouldhave met you guys, right?
Larry Samuels (47:26):
so which is special part of it too.
Jeff lesh (47:29):
Um, that's what?
Wait a minute.
If I didn't do all of thosethings, I wouldn't have met you
guys.
Tushar Saxena (47:33):
I was about to say the same thing.
Larry Samuels (47:36):
Well, with that, jeffrey, you know, thank you for
spending time with us today.
You know it's.
I've had the pleasure ofknowing you for a long time.
I know your story is a veryinteresting one and hopefully
for everybody else, theyappreciated you and appreciate
you just as much as I do.
So what a sweet guy with thatsweetheart.
Jeff lesh (48:01):
He is Jeff.
He is a sweetheart.
You guys should work with himon a radio.
Larry Samuels (48:06):
We'll get right on the podcasting thing first,
or or or something like that,Jeff, thank you so much for
calling.
Jeff lesh (48:13):
It has been an absolute pleasure.
Bye, bye, thanks.
Appreciate that, jeff.
Larry Samuels (48:14):
Thank you so much for calling in.
Tushar Saxena (48:15):
It's been an absolute pleasure Bye-bye.
Thanks, jeff, appreciate it,you're welcome.
Larry Samuels (48:17):
Well, that was my friend Jeff, as, again, you
guys knew him previously, buthis inside stories and a lot of
the stuff that he ran through, Iknew those stories.
So I may have cheated a littlebit in terms of pushing the
conversation in certain ways,but you know, what did you think
, larry?
What were your thoughts?
Larry Shea (48:37):
I think I think when I, when I hear Jeff tell these
stories, it's about that onelittle thing right, that one
little break, and then it startsthe long and winding road from
one thing leading to another.
And I think the most importantthings Jeff talks about in this
interview are just being theperson that everybody needs,
right, like that is such animportant thing is to be the
(48:58):
person that people like where isJeff Lesh?
Get me Jeff Lesh, right.
I mean, that's just the mostimportant thing I take out of
this interview.
Tushar Saxena (49:05):
Who the hell is Jeff Lesh?
Who the?
Larry Shea (49:07):
hell is Jeff Lesh Right?
That was a great story because,you know, I think that's what
it's about.
I mean, I look at today's, youknow, young workforce people who
are trying to find their dreamjob.
That's really who we're tryingto reach here.
And I just say to myself, youknow, do they know how to get
that opportunity?
And when that opportunitypresents, do they know how to
(49:28):
take advantage of it?
And I think that's the onething that we've you know've all
been able to do in our careersand I'm hoping that people do it
today.
And the other thing I want tomention about the interview,
which is fascinating, is Jefftalks about the opportunity of
privilege.
Right, that he was given theopportunity because he had the
support of his family to go andpursue these things, and I think
(49:49):
that's important.
But I don't think it should bea detriment when you're going
after your dreams, Because ifyou want it, bad enough.
Like Jeff said, just keep goingafter it.
You've got to want it, and ifyou don't want it, that's fine
too.
You can go find something elseto do.
But Jeff really took the bullby the horns when it was
presented to him, and I thinkthat's fascinating.
Tushar Saxena (50:10):
And the one thing I'll pick up on that is say
that not only did he, not onlydo you pick up on the
opportunities that he had, buthe had fun with them as well.
That's an important part of anycareer that you have, right?
So it shouldn't simply be amatter of, yeah, you're going
there for a paycheck, etc.
Part of it should be you know,you love what you're doing and
he loves what he does.
That there's, it oozes out ofevery statement he makes, which
(50:31):
is which is why I havingconversations.
He's such a great storyteller,but he knows how to tell a joke
and he knows that he's havingfun and he understands that,
yeah, he's a guy who's had a lotof opportunity come his way and
he's taken advantage of thatopportunity, but, most of all,
he's had a great deal of fungetting to know the people he
works with, which is basicallywhat you're going to do.
If you're not going to have funin what you do, why do it?
(50:53):
Yes, absolutely.
Larry Shea (50:54):
Got to love what you do yeah.
Larry Samuels (50:55):
And you know, the other thing that I'll share is
you know, jeff is veryentertaining.
I make fun of him all the timethat he works from, you know, 10
until 3, with two hours forlunch and plenty of time for the
New York Times.
But you know, Jeff is a reallygood person and he made a
comment about integrity andthings of that nature, and the
(51:17):
thing that I'll express is youknow, I think you have to have a
little bit of ego to step intoany competitive environment
where you have to have thestrength to persevere and push
through, et cetera, et cetera.
But moving beyond you know,that little bit that you have to
have.
He really doesn't have muchbeyond that, meaning he doesn't
(51:40):
take things too seriously.
He rolls with things, as youknow, they come his way and you
know, I think his demeanor ofbeing somebody who kind of rolls
with it all the time in everywalk of life has been incredibly
, incredibly helpful to him.
So he's just a genuinely a goodguy.
Larry Shea (52:00):
Yeah, and that matters with relationships,
which we saw in all of hisstories, right?
Is that it's all about?
I knew this guy and they toldme about this job, and so when
you talk about being a good guy,you can't emphasize that enough
.
It's about getting along withpeople, because most of the jobs
I've received, you know, havecome from word of mouth a buddy
telling a buddy and someonegetting it to me.
(52:22):
I mean, that's, that's just howlife works.
So you got to be a good person,even when no one's looking, and
you know, opportunity willhopefully present itself.
Larry Samuels (52:30):
That's exactly right, and you know he.
He is that guy where I wouldhave parties and I'd be worried
about.
You know, there are all thesedifferent groups coming together
or different factions, and thisone likes this and this one
likes that.
Is everybody going to get along?
When I would have parties likethat, the first person I would
call is Jeff and say Jeff, youneed to come work the room.
(52:51):
And he's a freaking genius whenit comes to that.
Tushar Saxena (52:54):
You need to come work the room and he's a
freaking genius when it comes tothat.
He's a glue guy.
Yeah, he's a good guy to haveat a party.
That's for sure.
Larry Samuels (52:59):
So he is doing exactly what he should be doing
for a living and loving everysingle second of it.
Easy for you to say yeah yeahexactly, I'm tired.
It was a long conversation.
I'm worn out already.
So with that, our thanks go outto Jeff for sharing his story
with us and to all of you forjoining this episode of no Wrong
(53:21):
Choices we post about once aweek, so please follow us here
or on Twitter and Instagram atTheFellasNWC.
You can also check out ourwebsite at NoWrongChoicescom for
additional and classic content.
Until next time, remember thereare no wrong choices.
We learn from every experience.
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