Get Back Up with Comedy Publicist Pam Loshak (Best Of)

Episode Transcript
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Larry Samuels (00:02):
How do you go from selling apples on the
street to representing some ofcomedy's biggest names?
We'll find out during this NoWrong Choices Best Of edition,
featuring the comedy publicistPam Loshak.
We'll be back with new episodesnext week.
I'm Larry Samuels, soon to bejoined by my collaborators Larry
Shea and Tushar Saxena, butbefore we kick off, I do ask

(00:23):
that you support our work byliking and following no Wrong
Choices on your favorite podcastplatform and by connecting with
us on social media.
Now let's get started with ouroriginal setup of this great
conversation.
This episode features comedypublicist Pam Loshack, who has
supported clients such as ColinQuinn, Michael Che, Neal Brennan
and so many others.

(00:45):
To be upfront, she's somebodywho I've been friends with for
many, many years and Larry Shea.
You may not know this, but youhave met Pam along the way, so
perhaps you're the best nextperson to set this conversation
up.

Larry Shea (01:00):
In that case, it'll be good to talk to Pam again.
I guess I don't know how longI've known Pam, but we're going
to talk to her today, which ispretty exciting.
I don't know anything about PR.
I don't know what it's like tobe a publicist, to have a
relationship with the mediaessentially is what we're
talking about.
I don't know how they get paid.
I don't know how you get intoit.

(01:21):
I'm so excited to talk to Pamjust because I know so little
about this subject.
So that's exciting and I knowher journey very specifically is
fascinating, so cool to listento her.

Tushar Saxena (01:33):
The thing I really want to hear about from
Pam is she's a freelancecontractor for all intents and
purposes, and when you own yourown business and you have to
worry about where the nextpaycheck comes from, it ain't
easy, and I know that fromfirsthand experience.
A lot early on in my career Iwas a freelance contractor, so

(01:55):
it's not an easy life to startwith.
So when you have thatopportunity to join a company,
or if tomorrow some companycalls and says we want you to
head up our division, would youdo it and there are always pros
and cons to that decision Iwould love to hear what that
thinking is from someone likePam who's in that situation
currently.

Well, hopefully she'll get to that, and if
anybody's ever paid their dues,it's Pam.
So, with no further ado, hereis Pam Loshak.
Pam, thank you so much forjoining us today, thanks for
having me.

Larry Shea (02:23):
Hey, pam, nice to talk to you.
This is Larry Shea.
Tell us about the job.
What is the job, what's yourrole, and let's start by giving
people a good background of whatit is exactly that you do day
to day.

Pam Loshak (02:37):
So I do a lot of things day to day.
People ask me this a lot andit's hard for me to sum it up,
but the best way I've describedit is at a certain point in a
comedian's career, because Ispecialize in stand up comedians
, who are very much Renaissancepeople.

(03:00):
So you know they have stand up,but very rarely does it end
there.
It's there's usually, uh, youknow, a TV show and a podcast
and a movie and a book and youknow whatever else, sometimes,
sometimes an off Broadway run,you know, uh, uh, like a one man

(03:22):
show or one woman show, oneperson show.
I know how woke your audienceis, so so it's handling all of
those things.
And when I say handling it,there's a certain point where it
makes sense for a publicist tobe added to a comedian's team, a

(03:46):
certain point in their career,and I'm kind of like a manager,
except I manage a very specificpiece of their career.
So I manage the media piece oftheir career.

So, pam, now that you've given us an overview of
what the job entails, of whatyour job entails a bit, take us
back to the beginning a littlebit.
Tell us what got you involved,not simply in wanting to get
into, let's say, the managementof comedians' careers, but in
entertainment in general.
Was this always something thatyou wanted, even even as a, even

(04:25):
as a young girl?

Pam Loshak (04:26):
um no, I mean I.
It's funny when I look back atlike eight-year-old diary
entries of mine.
I mean, listen, not once did Iwrite dear diary.
When I grow up I want to workat a bank you know or?
I want to fix cars or, like youknow, it was always something in

(04:59):
the entertainment industry.
He was an entertainment lawyerin the music business.
So he worked for Sony Music andthen opened up his own practice
and worked with various musicalacts, including Cool and the

(05:22):
Gang, with various musical acts,including Cool and the Gang.
So I do think.
And then my oldest brother,who's 22 years older than I am,
is also an entertainment lawyerin the film business.
Not that I knew any of this as,like a child, you know a
five-year-old but I was aware umof the uh like.

(05:49):
I had family in theentertainment industry.
So I think when you grow up inthat um like it just
subconsciously implants itselfas an option in your mind that
that can happen.
You know so um in in that way,uh, um, I knew that that was a

(06:13):
possibility, but I don't think Iwas like thinking of that at
the age of six.
I mean Jesus what kind ofintense people do you have on
this podcast?

Look, some of the people we have on this show are
very, very focused.

Pam Loshak (06:34):
I mean, I thought I was for five minutes.
I wanted to be a writer forfive minutes.
I wanted to be a jewelrydesigner for five minutes.

At six years old, that's still pretty focused.

Pam Loshak (06:45):
I mean kind of just because my mom got me some beads
and I made a necklace, althoughI will say I was always very
business-minded.
When I look back in retrospectnow, everything I did, I was
always like how can I turn thisinto a business?
So when I was probably six orseven, I went up to my mother.

(07:05):
I was like I'm opening up alemonade stand outside of my
brother's little league games.
I'm doing this.
Mom and I like set it up and Imade signs and I was very
charming and I made a bunch ofmoney.
I think I made like 30 bucks orsomething very nice um, when I
made when, for the five minutesthat I was really into making

(07:27):
jewelry I like made thesenecklaces and I set up a stand
outside of my grocery store andtried to sell the necklaces,
which I'm sure was illegal.
You know, I definitely didn'thave whatever license you need
to do that.
But so I will say that I wasalways business minded, I guess.

(07:47):
I mean, when I was very young Iwouldn't play house with my
friends, I would playentertainment manager and I
would, and I would sit.
I had a bunk bed and I wouldsit on the on the top bunk and I

(08:09):
would make my friend be myassistant and sit on the bottom
you did not do this.
I 100% did.
Granted, I did it in a princessdress.
We were in full makeup you know, we were like dressed up, but
um, I guess that that is sort ofthe way my mind always worked,

(08:31):
Wow.

So when did you start to you know?
Push towards, I guess the realthing.

Pam Loshak (08:37):
An actual job.
I was going to be 10 years old.
When did you bring?

this to real life .

Pam Loshak (08:43):
Um, you know, I, you know I graduated college, I
worked in advertising for fiveminutes because they recruited
me out of college for a bigadvertising agency called
MediaVest.
Called MediaVest, and likenobody else had, all my friends

(09:05):
were going to San Diego to, like, you know, get high and like
hang out on the beach, and I waslike, okay, well, how about I
get a paycheck?
And so I did that and that washilarious.
I mean, I started that job twoweeks out of college.
That's not at all where Ishould have been.
And so I quit that job and wascocktailing and just doing

(09:27):
things around the city and like,eventually, I just got very um,
this will come into play later,which is why I'm going to
mention this I've never been thetype of person, uh, I always
need to know where my, how myrent is being paid.
I need to know, you know, wheremy paycheck is coming from.
So, you know, the fact that I'ma freelancer technically now is

(09:51):
nothing I ever in a millionyears would have imagined I
would be cut out for.
Um, so I, but, you know, goingback, I think I was just, I was
sick of like the, theinstability of working at
restaurants and I was reallybroke, and so I.

(10:13):
I knew that I wanted to work inthe entertainment industry, but
I didn't know exactly what Iwanted to do.
So I set my sights on getting ajob at a, at a talent agency,
because they're kind of thenerve center of the industry and
I figured that it would be agood place for me to figure out
what direction I wanted to go in, and hopefully I would have the

(10:34):
connections to do so once Ifigured that out.

So you pivoted from working at the ad agency
and doing other jobs to kind ofto make ends meet, and then you
moved over to the talent agency.
Is that right?

Pam Loshak (10:46):
Yes, which, when you start out at a talent agency,
you're not going to make endsmeet.
I mean, I started there as afloater, which means that you're
, and I was working at WME,which is a major, major major
William Morris endeavor.
Yeah, it's a major talent agencyand you know, the way I got

(11:08):
that was that I at the time Ijust so happened to be dating
somebody that knew somebody whowas an assistant there, who got
my resume in.
But I did not start in themailroom, I didn't.
You know, I was a little bitolder than than the other people
who usually who started, whowho typically start at the level

(11:31):
that I started at Usuallypeople come right out of college
and do it, and I was like 26,25.
So I just didn't want to be inthe mailroom, I didn't want to
do all of that stuff.
So I got a job as a floater,which is an in-house temp and
you report to HR every day andthey put you on a desk if an

(11:52):
assistant is out sick or needsextra help with a project, and
you float around from desk todesk, which is actually better
experience than being in themailroom, but it's not the track
that you typically take to bean agent.

Larry Shea (12:10):
I just I don't want to gloss over this part.
I want to get back to this.
But did you study publicity ormarketing in college at all, or
where did that spark happen?

Pam Loshak (12:21):
I was very high in college spark happen I was very
high in college so you

Larry Shea (12:28):
studied extracurricular activities my
focuses were elsewhere.

Pam Loshak (12:37):
However, I, you know , I always was, uh, I always
gravitated towards, was, uh, Ialways gravitated towards comedy
.
I knew who all the comedianswere at an inappropriately young
age.
I was always doing impressionsin school.
I was always the funny one inschool.
I was always a lot of things inschool, but the but I was

(12:59):
always funny.
Um, I was, I was, I did a lotof theater.
I don't think I've missed anepisode of snl since I was like
seven years old, like I.
I shouldn't have known who, allthe who, all the stand-ups were
on hbo.
You know, at the age of likeseven like.

But that's great parents, that's what I was
watching or neglectful parentsno, it was cool parents, that's
cool parents um, but um so soI'm sorry.

Pam Loshak (13:34):
What was the question?
Again, when did I get the bugfor?

Larry Shea (13:36):
yeah, what was your major like?
Did you actually have?

Pam Loshak (13:39):
anything cultural anthropology.
Okay, so it was basicallyperfect this study of how us,
how groups of people, operateand and and interact with each
other, which is, I mean, it'sall fitting.
You know, considering whereI've wound up, it's exact.

(14:02):
It's like exactly what I do.
I mean, it's just it was I'vealways been very interested in
and very insightful of of humanbehavior.
If that makes sense, like I cantell you plenty of things that

(14:24):
I'm not good at, for example,figuring out how my stove works.
I don't know if any of ourprevious conversation is going
to get on this podcast.

Larry Shea (14:34):
We'll get to air frying in a little while.

Pam Loshak (14:36):
We talked about how I don't know how to use my stove
, but there are plenty of thingsthat I'm really not good at,
but I am exceptionally good I'mI, it's my talent.
I think everybody is talentedin a certain area, and for me it
is um.
Understanding the, the languageof the art of comedy I always

(14:58):
have.
It's just a language I alwaysgot.
And also, um, I always got.
And also understanding humanbehavior very, very well, which
is not always a fun thing.

So when you were over at William Morris and
obviously floating from desk todesk, maybe you didn't have the
opportunity to kind of maybe Iwouldn't say pick and choose
where you could go, but did youhave a preference of working
comedy desks over, let's say,actors or uh or other or other
type of uh or other uh divisionsand departments?

Pam Loshak (15:39):
Well, the way it happened, the way things played
out at, at, um, william Morrisfor me was that, yeah, I was
hopping from place to place, andyou know I was.
I always say that I was atWilliam Morris at the right time
, with the right attitude,because I had no ego about it,

(16:01):
you know what I mean.
Like I didn't go in thereexpecting to do anything high
profile, I really just wanted tolearn and figure out what was
going on, you know.
So, um, there weren'tspecifically comedy desks, there
were agents who handledcomedians amongst other clients,
agents who handled comediansamongst other clients.

(16:24):
And when I was there, it justso happened that there were
three coordinators, which is,it's like a junior agent level.
Okay, um, who?
And?
And coordinators don't haveassistants who were all in the
TV department and all had abunch of stuff going on, and
they also worked with comedians.

(16:45):
And so I went up to them and Iwas like, hey, I'm really
interested in this stuff.
You do If you ever need any helpwith anything, if you want me
to get you coffee, if you wantme to file, answer your phones,
whatever like, let me know I'llstay after work if you want, or
you can put, you can put in arequest with HR to have me come

(17:07):
help you guys.
So I wound up and they did,they really responded to that
and so I wound up being sort oftheir unofficial assistant.
And then when one of them, thisguy, scott Lunker, got promoted
to an agent position and, uh,was able to hire an assistant,
he assistant proposed to me andI accepted and so and he was

(17:34):
just I mean, not everybodypeople have like horror stories
about working at agencies.
I, I was.
So it was such a wonderful timein my life working for him and I
was there for, you know, twoand a half years.
He was an amazing manager.
He was also really good.
He was like the golden boy inthe TV department.

(17:54):
So as long as I was under hiswing, no, nothing bad was going
to happen to me and he was very,very good to me and he was very
, very good to me.
You know that was sort ofimportant in me developing how I
wanted to exist like how Iwanted to operate in the

(18:17):
business world Right, right,right.

Larry Shea (18:18):
And so what are you doing at this point?
What was your hands-on?
Are you interacting withclients?
Are you doing administrativetype stuff, like what was your?

Pam Loshak (18:26):
role.
I was his assistant so I waslike rolling calls, but when
you're at an agency you canlisten in.
You're on the line when all thecalls are happening unless they
tell you it's private.
So I was able to listen to allof that and, like, um, you know,
figure out what I wanted to do.
And he repped at the time arelatively unknown Bill Burr.

(18:50):
He repped Greg Giraldo, herepped White as Kids you Know.
A couple of those people aredead now.
Hey, yay ha comedy, big laugh.

Way to bring it down, way to bring it down.

Pam Loshak (19:10):
Way to bring it down .
Well, greg giraldo.
I don't know if you guys knowwho greg giraldo?

do you know who he was?

Pam Loshak (19:13):
yeah, comedian, yeah okay, well, whatever, greg, he
died on my birthday, which isreally shitty of him and, um, he
was probably the first comedianthat I feel like I personally
knew, like I had a personalrelationship with.
But so I was, I was, it was my,the actual work was all
administrative, but I was alsolike going to, you know, when

(19:35):
somebody had a taping orsomebody had a TV appearance, I
would go with Scott, my boss, toall of those things.

Right and you would represent him, I'm
assuming.

Pam Loshak (19:44):
Represent no we would just like like you would
just go.
I got you yeah, just forsupport and um.
And then I decided that Iwanted to sort of go into, like
a, a world.
I wanted to go into originalprogramming, which is, which is

(20:05):
a department at a network theycall it a development department
, william Morris, no at anetwork.
So I decided I wanted to goover to a network and develop
and and work in development incomedy.

Why did you choose to do that rather than go
the the agent path?

Pam Loshak (20:27):
Oh cause?
No, I mean, larry.
You and I have known each otherfor many, many years now.
I'm not an agent.
I had to ask the question, Iwould not thrive in that
environment at all, nor did Iwant to like it was not anything

(20:49):
that I wanted anything to dowith.
Um so, um.
So I decided you know, as Italk about it, it's like you
know the the decisions that Imade along the way are, like you
know, like I decided, ok, Iwant to work in New York.
This was in New York City, bythe way, and at the time

(21:12):
everybody is like moving out toLA to, like you know, grow their
, build their career inentertainment because the entire
industry is out there, or atthe time it was, and I was like
I want to stay in New York and Iwant to work in development at
Comedy Central in New York City.
So basically, I was limitingmyself to like two jobs, right,

(21:32):
yeah right right.
But it wasn't.
You know, I didn't pull it outof thin air.
It was also that my boss atWilliam Morris was like best
friends with the head of the newyork development department at
comedy central.

Yeah, okay, so which I?

Pam Loshak (21:54):
knew.
So it's not like I pull, youknow, it's not like I invented,
like how?

about.

Pam Loshak (22:00):
I theoretically had a nice smooth path I knew that I
I knew that I had an in there.
Um so I figured it was just anamount of a matter of waiting,
which it was fun fact.
Um.
So the guy that I, that I didwind up eventually going and
working for as as his assistantat comedy central is a guy named

(22:21):
Lou Wallach.
As his assistant at ComedyCentral is a guy named Lou
Wallach.
His assistant at the time rightbefore me was none other than
John Mulaney.

No, kidding, really.

Pam Loshak (22:34):
Yeah, so I had to wait for John Mulaney's leave,
which he did.

I don't know if you've heard of him, thankfully
for all of us, or fortunatelyfor all of of us, because I do
very much appreciate his work.

Pam Loshak (22:47):
Um, so then I went over and I worked at comedy
central as an assistant, which Iwas like, oh my god, this is my
dream job.
This is it I've landed.
I'm gonna work my way up, I'llbe here for, you know, 30 years.
I'll eventually be an executive.
This is exactly what I want todo.
It's perfect.
It's perfect.

(23:07):
It's in New York, and it woundup being my worst nightmare.

Why is that?

Pam Loshak (23:15):
Because I was working for a verbally abusive
coke head.

Okay, okay.

That sounds unpleasant.
I can see that being a problemyeah, that's that's a problem.

Right, that's obviously a problem.
As you said, you had such agreat experience while you were
at william morris.
A lot of people expect that.
You know that will be the waythe career works.

Pam Loshak (23:36):
So I had.
I had no idea I was so spoiled,I had no idea how good I had it
.
I mean mean also, you knowViacom in general and it's not
Viacom specifically.
It's just working in any mediacorporation is tough, it's not.

(23:57):
It's not.
I would say, at best, if you'relucky, it's 50% about the
actual work that you're doing.

Right right.

Pam Loshak (24:08):
And 50% about navigating.
You know whatever the corporatestructure is and stroking ego.
You know, executives' egos.

Larry Shea (24:20):
Office politics.

Sure, yeah, it's a lot about playing the game.

Pam Loshak (24:23):
And dealing with, and everybody's constantly
terrified of losing their job,you know.
So it really is like eat or beeaten and and I understand, like
rightly so I mean people very,very high up executives who are
making a ton of money, get laidoff or get fired for no reason

(24:46):
just because there's a changingof the guards, you know, or you
know their company merges withanother company and like, and
all of a sudden you go from.
So there it's sort of you're,you're kind of shadow boxing all
the time, like there's no wayto feel like you have any kind

(25:08):
of security.
You know so, which I didn'thave to deal with as an
assistant as an assistant,you're just there but I had to
deal with the effect that thathas on on um, the executives
that did work there, likepsychologically and how that

(25:30):
behave, you know.

So then, how long did you end up staying at a
comedy central?

Pam Loshak (25:37):
I was there for two and a half years and so I was
trying to so the so inentertainment, in in what I the
field that I'm in.
One of the hardest jumps thatyou're ever going to have to
make is from assistant toexecutive or like assistant to
junior executive.
You really have to havesomebody who's like championing

(25:58):
on championing you, likeushering you into through that
transition, or it's never goingto happen.

You need a Sherpa .
Absolutely, you really do.

Pam Loshak (26:07):
I mean it's, it's just so, and I was working for
somebody who had no interest inhelping me and, you know, lied
about a bunch of stuff and likewhatever.
Ultimately he got fired.
He works for Netflix now.

Larry Shea (26:22):
He knows, I don't like him.

Pam Loshak (26:24):
I would say all of this.
I would say all of this to hisface and, by the way, every
other boss I've ever had, goingway back to my first boss at the
advertising agency I am stillin touch with and I have very
good relationships with.
I adore them.
They adore me.
He was a nightmare.

Larry Shea (26:45):
I have to ask this question right now because it's
it's important because we weoften don't spend enough time on
, maybe, the decision we make,that we regret it, right, and or
the the twist and turn in theroad.
Ultimately, it led to where youare now, which is fantastic.
If you had it to do over again,though, would you have made the
same choice to move to comedycentral?

Pam Loshak (27:04):
Yes, because it looked good on my resume.

Larry Shea (27:07):
Okay, that's a fair answer.

Pam Loshak (27:10):
You know I wish that there had been another position
that would have had theequivalent clout you know for my
resume in the comedy world, butthere really wasn't.
I mean, I really had limitedmyself to like three jobs in

(27:33):
without moving to LA.

Yeah, right.

Pam Loshak (27:36):
So, um.
So I was at comedy central andit really got to the point where
I was, so um, I was, so it waslike really affecting my like
mental health, being there andworking for this guy and I.

(27:56):
You know things were happeninglike I would go.
So at the time they movedoffices, but at the time the
offices were at Columbus Circle,which is right at the for those
anybody listening who doesn'tknow New York City, it's right
at the.
For those anybody listening whodoesn't know New York city,
it's right at the tip of centralpark, and I lived right at the
end of the other end, of theother side of central park.

(28:18):
So every day, just to try tolike get myself grounded after
work, I would walk the entirelength of the park.
Wow.
Wow which is about home.

Larry Shea (28:31):
I was living on 110th street at the time, so you
were in the best shape of yourlife, I mean I don't know, I was
just walking just because I hadto like yeah, decompress, wind
down, work it out yeah.

Pam Loshak (28:44):
And then I would go home and I would like collapse
on the couch watching TV and Iwould start nodding off because
I'd be so tired and I would tryto stay awake, just because I
needed time away from thataudience, that office, like I
needed, like it was bad, it wasreally really, really bad and

(29:06):
and so out of that I was justlike I have to get out of here.
So I started interviewing, which, by the way, my boss at from
William Morris Scott, helped me,you know, hooked me up with
other people and got meinterviews, and it always came
down to like me and one otherperson, but the other person was

(29:26):
making a lateral move and I wastrying to make the jump from
assistant and I would alwayslose it, and I was going into
everything.
I mean I was I was interviewingfor like reality TV jobs which,
oh my God, thank God, I didn'tget any of those jobs, you know,
um, and I just wasn't gettinganything.

(29:48):
And then then, so one of thethings I had started doing when
I was at comedy essentials, Istarted volunteering to help
work the carpets, uh, the redcarpets at the comedy central
roasts okay it'd be like atalent wrangler or whatever they
needed, you know.
So I put that on my resume andclaimed that I had PR experience

(30:14):
, which I didn't really Well,maybe real life, you know
practical experience.

Yeah, I agree, I think you actually did have
experience.
What are you talking about?
I did not have PR experience.

Pam Loshak (30:26):
Going on a carpet and like showing someone where
to go from a car, from a carservice is not PR experience.
All right, that's relating tothe podcast.
So truly out of desperation Isomeone sent me like a list, a

(30:51):
listing.
I mean you have no idea howmuch networking I was doing
Meetings with everybody, generalmeetings, interviews,
contacting everybody.
Can you get my resume in withthis?
I mean really, really hustling.
And then somebody sent me, Ithink, a listing that they had
found on craigslist for like ajunior publicist in the in the

(31:16):
comedy craigslist of all places.

Yes, the first time craigslist has come up in
any of these episodes well thatthis was like 2006, maybe yeah,
so like and six maybe.

Pam Loshak (31:27):
Yeah, so like that's what was going on at the time.
And um, and so I contacted thisguy and I read the description
and I was like.
I contacted him and I was like,um, here's my rep, like I could
give you my spiel, my likecover letter spiel, but you
should just look at my resumeand we should talk, because my

(31:47):
and and um.
So we did and he offered me thejob and again, completely out
of desperation, I took it um,just because I had to get out of
comedy central.
It was killing me, like I wasnot in a good place.
And um, I took a 50 pay cut.

(32:10):
I had no ben, I had no benefits.
By the way, 50 pay cut, it's notlike I was making a ton of
money at comedy central, I wasdoing okay, um for still 50 of
anything 50 for well, yeah, butI was you, like I was doing OK

(32:31):
for somebody who was 30, youknow, and single, and no
responsibilities and no expenses, in New York City, with a rent,
stabilized apartment.
You know what I mean.
Like I was doing OK, but I.
I took a 50% pay cut.
I had no health insurance, nobenefits, no, nothing, um, but

(32:57):
and but I.
It got me out of the assistanttitle world, it kept me in the
comedy world and, um, it wasjust a place where I could go
and still have a paycheck, nomatter how small, and and and
not be like emotionally torturedevery day.

Yeah.

Pam Loshak (33:22):
And and still, you know, I figured I could still
interview, I could still do allthe things I was doing, but
maybe I wouldn't be so miserableand I wouldn't be an assistant
anymore.
So I did that and I and I wantto point this out because it's
important I was 31 when I tookthat job.

Okay.

Pam Loshak (33:43):
So I don't know how it is in other industries but
like to be just coming out ofthe assistant world at 31 in the
entertainment industry is very,very old.

It's late in the game.

Pam Loshak (33:58):
It's very late in the game.
So you know that's somethingthat I was wrestling with, you
know within myself, and but Idid it anyway.
That was, uh, 2007,.
Then 2008 hit and, if yourecall, there was this little

(34:20):
housing bubble thing that burstI do remember that great
recession in 2008,.
It wasn't a big deal.
It was kind of like looselyreported on um and so everybody,
all of my leads, all of like myjob leads, were like actually
we're not, we're taking this jobposting down and we're letting

(34:45):
everybody go.
We're like laying everybody off, right.

Yeah, no, I remember all that time yeah.

Pam Loshak (34:51):
So I couldn't even interview.
And, um, you know, I, oh I,Larry knows this, Larry, Larry
Samuels, the Larry Samuelsthat's on.
Um, you know, I always had asecond job, I, I had a second
job, probably until I was like36.

You sold a lot of apples, from what I remember.

Pam Loshak (35:15):
Yes, Well, one of my jobs, uh, famously for anybody
that was in my life at that timeis I.
I sold apples Eliza Doolittlestyle at a farmer's market in
Brooklyn.

And I did not live With the accent and
everything.

Pam Loshak (35:38):
No, because I was so bundled up, it was year round.
So the only time they canceledthe market was if the high
temperature was below somethinglike 21 degrees.
So if it was like 10 degreesall day but for an hour it was

(35:58):
25, you were, you were coming towork and it was and it was for
$10 an hour and it was everySaturday and I had to be there
at 7am.
I did not live in Brooklyn, Ilived on the Upper West Side.

Larry Shea (36:16):
Oh, my goodness.

Pam Loshak (36:18):
Oh my God.
So I had to.
I was getting up at 5am thefreezing, freezing cold um to
haul my cookies, to port green,to sell apples, and it was like
hardcore manual labor.

(36:38):
I mean you have to set it up.
There were, I remember therewere like six and a half foot
tall wooden tables that I thatyou had to like unload from the
truck.
I mean it was a thing for $10an hour, cause I need it.
I just everything counted.
You know, I I had restaurantsthat I worked at on the weekends

(36:59):
.
There was a short period oftime where I was working seven
days a week, um, but I don'tknow, I just wasn't ready to
give up on figuring out a placefor myself.
It was hard though.
I mean, I definitely had timeswhere I was like I don't know if

(37:20):
this is going to work.
I've got to figure outsomething else to do Because,
don't forget again, I'm in my30s at this point.
Again, I'm in my 30s at thispoint.
So all of my friends around mein the entertainment industry
are getting traction in theirjobs, you know, and their
executives, and some of them arefar enough along that they're
transitioning to, like, seniorlevel executives.

(37:41):
You know, and I'm sellingapples In.
I mean, I looked like I woreall the clothing that I could
possibly wear.
I looked like the kid from aChristmas story who can't put
his arms down.
So, um and then, but you know,while all of this was happening,

(38:05):
all of this was happening, Iwas also very much in the comedy
world and I was at comedy showsall the time, and between my
days at William Morris and mydays at comedy central and then
my days at the job that I had atthat time in in comedy

(38:27):
publicity, like I knew a lot ofcomedians and I knew the
upcoming class very, very, verywell and again, I was very aware
of what my talents were and oneof them is that I speak
comedian, like I speak thatlanguage.
So all of these comedians alsoreally loved me.

(38:49):
And, um, I don't know it, justI.
It just got to the point whereI was like, how about?
I remember there was a momentwhere I very clearly said to
myself I was like, how about Istop ask, going to all these
other people asking them to letme do what I want to do, and how

(39:10):
about I just do it?
And and at the time I thoughtto myself I'm gonna, I'm, I'm
going to do PR for comedians,but also I'm gonna, like, pitch
other projects.
If I have an idea for a show, ifI have an idea for this, for
that, like, I'll pitch that.

(39:31):
And it's really not my problemwhat label, what title the
industry wants to give me,that's their problem.
What matters for me is that I'mworking with talent that
everybody else wants to workwith.
If I'm doing that, then they'll, they'll, I'll get, I'll get in

(39:55):
the building.
You know like they'll let me in, they'll have to.
And so I started, um, and Ialso have an eye for talent.
So, like, for comedy talent,you, you, you put me in a room
with a band.
I'm not going to be able totell you what they're, but
comedy five minutes I'll tellyou.
And so I started doing, Istarted offering to do PR for

(40:21):
all of them for free.

So that actually leads me well into my next
question here.
So then, who was that first?
Who was the first client thatbit and said yes, pam, you're my
guy, I want you to lead the wayfor me.

Pam Loshak (40:34):
Well, the upcoming class, the incoming class of
comedians at the time wasMichael Che and Pete Davidson
and Dan Soder and Big JayOakerson, and I mean I don't
know how much you know yourcomedians.
Um, who else was around?

(40:55):
I mean a lot of big names, asthere always are.
Like you have it with everycomedy incoming comedy class.
You have the stars, um, and soI just started doing stuff for
them for free, thinking tomyself I'm just going to do this
thing and the money will comebecause they.

(41:18):
I believe that these peoplehave careers that are big enough
that that eventually, they'llbe able to pay me.

Larry Shea (41:28):
So hold on a second because this is important.
Like you're saying, bring themthis stuff, just do the stuff
for them.
You're getting them interviews,you're getting them scripts,
opportunities.
How's that?

Pam Loshak (41:39):
No, it's interviews to support whatever-.

Larry Shea (41:45):
They were promoting .

Pam Loshak (41:46):
Whatever they were promoting, whatever projects
they had going on.
So like one of the first bigquote-unquote gets that I got
was I got, uh, michael che acover story on village, on the
village voice, um, because hewas just like this wonder kind,
like he was like oh, who's theone, who's the like boy, g boy

(42:06):
comedy at the time and so howdoes that put money in your
pocket?

Larry Shea (42:14):
Like specific.

It did it.

Larry Shea (42:16):
You bring him an interview for Village Voice,
right Like what do you have toshow for that?

Well street cred Right, right.

Larry Shea (42:23):
It's just building Right, it's building your
reputation.

Pam Loshak (42:27):
Yes.

Larry Shea (42:27):
Yes, ok, yes.

Pam Loshak (42:31):
And going from there .
You know, I I was doing thingslike that for comedians who were
I mean, I bring up michael che,because he's like a household
name now, but it was also justany of these younger, like hot
young comics that everybody hadrespect for, yeah, so that led
to I think he was my firstpaying client Hannibal Burrus.

Larry Shea (42:52):
Okay.

Pam Loshak (42:53):
Who I also knew from you know the clubs, but I.
But he reached out to me oneday and was like hey, I have the
special coming out, I'm lookingto hire a publicist.
Can we meet for coffee, for adrink or whatever and talk?
And I was like, yeah, yeah, butI don't think he would have
done that had I not occupied aspace in his mind where I was

(43:16):
already doing this other stuffyep uh that was the beginning
that started to set up and that.
And then people hear that I thatI was working with hannibal and
I was getting him a lot.
There was a lot of heat on him.
I actually repped Hannibalduring the whole Cosby thing,
which, if you don't know whatI'm talking about, then I did my
job well, do you know what I'mtalking about?

Larry Shea (43:41):
I know what you're talking about?
Yes, I don't.
So, yeah, tell our listeners.

Pam Loshak (43:44):
Okay, well, the thing that the match that lit
the fire that brought down theCosby house was a stand up bit
that Hannibal did at a show inPhilly, and somebody in the
audience, without hisunbeknownst to Hannibal and

(44:06):
without his permission, tapedthe bit and put it online and it
went viral.
And the bit was about, um, howthere had been like decades of
rape allegations against him.
And it went viral and itsparked everything that that
happened.

So was that an inside known story within the
comedy universe?

Pam Loshak (44:31):
Is it what?

Was it a known thing like an unspoken secret
within the comedy universe, whatCosby was doing?

Pam Loshak (44:40):
Um, I don't know that.
I would say that I I don't knowif I was aware of it.
I mean I don't, I don't, Idon't know that.
I would say that Certainly Idon't think anybody knew the
extent that he was truly aserial rapist, predator.

(45:04):
I mean, like I don't know, Imean I think some people knew
that there were allegations,vaguely, but you know the media
put a spotlight.
The media really did not coverit.

Got it.

Pam Loshak (45:20):
They didn't want it.
It was inconvenient for them to.
I mean, it was very differentbefore Cosby, and Me Too.
You know, like um, and neitherof those sort of movements are
perfect, by the way.
There's a lot of hypocrisy init and a lot of.

(45:40):
They're very flawed, but youknow um.

So so your role was to try to disconnect
Hannibal from the story yes.
And how do you do that?

Pam Loshak (45:57):
Well, first of all, I had every media outlet banging
down my door for an interviewwith him, Every single one, From
the highest of brow to thelowest of brow, Um, very
aggressively it was.
It was very surprising to methat you know outlets that sort

(46:23):
of pride themselves on um, onbeing, uh, you know,
distinguished, were acting likeTansy, you know Um.
So, and at the time, and thething is like I think if you, I
think if Hannibal would say this, like he doesn't regret doing
it, but he didn't, he didn'tperform that bit, to be like a

(46:48):
social justice warrior, Likethat's not what he was doing.
And it wasn't a story about him.
So you know, and at the time hehad a national theater tour
that he was promoting.
There were other things goingon.
So what I did was I was likehere's what you're going to do.
While everything is as hot asit is now, anybody that wants to

(47:13):
talk to you can only talk toyou if they agree to not ask you
about Cosby.

Interesting.

Larry Shea (47:18):
You're not going to talk about it at all.

Pam Loshak (47:20):
And if we lose press which we did, we lost a lot of
press fine.
And then what you're going todo is, when things cool off a
little bit, you're going to talkabout it a lot of press, fine.
And then when things then whatyou're going to do is, when
things cool off a little bit,you're going to talk about it a
lot.

So that it's On your terms, so that it's not
news.
Yeah, right, right.

Pam Loshak (47:38):
So that no one can write a headline saying Hannibal
Buress breaks his silencebecause you've talked about it
all the time and also, when youtalk about it, you're going to
talk about it in a very boringway.

Wow, so is that okay?
So then let's talk about thenotion of controversial topics.
Or, obviously, the HannibalBuress is is kind of an outlier,
obviously because that reallystarted that little spark that
you know I won't I'm not goingto say it.
It, because that really startedthat little spark that you know
I'm not going to say it, lit aspark that I don't think many
could have seen.
But let's say controversialtopics, is that how you would

(48:16):
then treat then subsequentcomedians later on say, hey look
, if something happens like this, this is the game plan with how
we go forward.

Pam Loshak (48:25):
Well, I have my own company now and part of the
reason that I have my owncompany, one of the many reasons
.
I have my own company and Idon't go to a big PR firm is
because I can pick and choosewho I work with.

(48:45):
So if there is a comedian whohas to apologize legitimately
apologize for something, I'mprobably not working with that
person.
Anybody who says something,anybody that I work with, I
would never ask them, as acomedian, to censor themselves

(49:09):
or apologize for anything.
Part of being a comedian isreally honing your own voice.
So you, I would never ask acomedian to alter their voice or
pretend or anything, and ifthere is something that is
apology worthy, again I'mprobably not working with them.

So, pam, let's build upon the story of Hannibal
.
So you know you've been workingwith Michael Che, you've been
working with Hannibal.
You've been working withHannibal.
You're starting to develop apractice.
When did momentum kick in?
When did you really start tobuild out a practice for
yourself?

Pam Loshak (49:53):
Well, part of what happened is that the comedians
that I started working with forfree, their careers developed
just as I had counted on.
So that's when things kind ofstarted to grow for me.
Um, the fact that I worked withHannibal got around.

(50:17):
So, you know, comedians talkit's a lot of word of mouth, so
like somebody might have had aspecial coming out or a tour,
whatever they had going on, andthey'd go up to Hannibal and
they'd be like who does your PR?
You know like who's?
And he'd say my name.
And then they'd reach out andlike, um, although at that time

(50:38):
not no one was really reachingout to me, I got a lot of no's.
I got a lot of like.
Typically, unless, unless youknow the comedian you have to,
you would reach out to theirmanager and be like hey, I know
so, and so has this projectcoming up?
If you're thinking aboutbringing on a publicist?
I'd love to be part of theconversation, I'd love to chat,

(51:01):
and there were people who justdidn't pay me any mind mind
because I was like I wasn't partof a big company, I wasn't.
You know who was I, I was justsome schmo and they just didn't
really didn't give me the timeof day, but some of the other
comedians did, because theyspoke to Hannibal and then their

(51:23):
managers had to pay attentionto me.

Interesting, so that really broke it open for
you.

Pam Loshak (51:29):
Well, it was one of the things.
And then, and and there were afew different clients that I
started working with, that,different clients that I started

(51:49):
working with that um, thathelped that happen.
And then what's?
You know, if you're, if you'reworking with, like, I have a
couple of clients now.
One of them is Sam Morrell,who's like super hot, super hot
in the comedy standup worldright now.
Are you familiar?
Are?

are people.

Pam Loshak (52:03):
I've seen some of his stand-up gigs on comedy
central okay so that so, and allof the comedians love him and
I'm getting a lot of businesshas come off of that for me,
because they all want to knowwho's doing his pr.
You know, and he and I havevery good relationship.
I'm doing a really good job forhim, so he, he, he throws

(52:27):
people my way as well.
So there are a few um, a fewclients who have done that for
me, but what eventually startshappening is that the industry
starts knowing your name.

what's happening is that the industry starts
knowing your name, right?
So?

Pam Loshak (52:44):
I would say, you know another thing that happened
, that that was the Oscarnomination for the Lucas
brothers.
That sort of put me in adifferent league.

What's the story around that?

Pam Loshak (53:00):
So this was.
I mean, it's hilarious, it'sactually hilarious.
This was in 2021.
So we're in full COVID, rightand um, I had lost all my
business, and through no faultof my own, it's just.
Nobody was touring, Nobody was,you know, taping anything.
There was no work for to bedone, but the one thing I was

(53:27):
doing was my clients, the LucasBrothers, had written a script
for a film called Judas and theBlack Messiah.
Oh my God, what a great movie,that is yeah and there were.
There was all kinds of oscarbuzz around it, so that was the
one project I did and, um, soyou know that's a whole campaign

(53:54):
, the, the, the.
There's a whole oscar campaignleading up to the nomination.
Then once you get thenomination, it's a whole
campaign after that.
And, by the way, judas and theBlack Messiah is not a funny
movie at all but they, but theywrote it.
It's not hilarious at all but it.
But they wrote it and so youknow, I was like doing probably

(54:19):
the most high profile campaign,press campaign I've ever done,
which they did get nominated,which was like a pretty amazing
moment, um, for me and for themand um, but I then I'd like get
off of whatever call or zoom Iwas on with them and like call

(54:43):
up unemployment and get myunemployment benefits.
You know, because I was part of, I got a small business loan,
like I'm definitely an exampleof, um, you know, a business
that was able to survive becauseof the resources that that were

(55:04):
put out at that time.
Um, I mean, I would havefigured out another way, I would
have borrowed money orsomething, but like all of my
business disappeared.
So, um, so, but anyway they got, they got the Oscar nomination
and that that put me in adifferent league.
but it was like several leagues,you know, and so now I have

(55:29):
managers that I've worked onvarious projects with and
various clients with for many,many years, and I'm like their
go-to person.

That's incredible For PR.

Pam Loshak (55:40):
So, between those relationships and it's not it's
not all of the managers, it's,you know, it's it's like two or
three, but that's all I need andthey have amazing clients.
So, between that and um word ofmouth amongst comedians
themselves, probably over thelast, I'd say, year and a half,

(56:06):
my business has exploded.
And I just raised my rates,which was like a big deal for me
.
Not none of my clients battedan eyelash.
I was like, wrestling with thisand wrestling, my God, they're
going to leave.
And I was like, okay, so for2023, I raised my rates and

(56:28):
they're like wait, what?
Okay, wait, so what are wedoing on Tuesday?
Like it was nothing.

It was nothing.
Who are some of the peopleyou're working with, Pam?

Pam Loshak (56:41):
Well, again, I don't know how into comedy you are,
but some of the bigger names are.
I handle bilber's touring, I uh.
Colin quinn, uh, neil bernard,the lucas brothers, miss pat,
ida rodriguez, sam murrell, jimNorton I'm probably forgetting.

(57:05):
So these are the bigger namesthere's like a whole other.
These are your bigger clients Awhole other, oh, dulce Sloan,
who's on the Daily Show, nimeshPatel, veer Das I don't know if
you know any of these people.
Who else, who else, who else?
Rose rosebud baker you probablydon't know her.
She, you will.

She's gonna be a superstar um she's a writer to
say a big roster of of you knowwell-known names that you know
for for having hung in there forall this time it's.
It's now come around and you'rethere.

Pam Loshak (57:40):
Yeah, and it it's recent, you know, and I'm very
lucky and not one moment of itis lost on me, and you know it

(58:01):
was.
I was very much a late bloomer.
Um, I never and here we come,here we come back to I never in
a million years would havethought that I would have been
happy being essentially afreelancer and having my own
business.
I thought that that would, uh,incite so much anxiety in me.

Larry Shea (58:25):
It takes a lot of courage to step out there on
your own like that.
So I have to ask this questionbecause you're an expert, right?
So who else would we ask thisquestion to?
Is it true that all publicityis good publicity?
No, in what way Define that?
In what way Define that?

Pam Loshak (58:40):
Well, publicity is.
Every company, every industryin the world has a PR department
.
So I can really only speak toPR as it relates to comedians.
But again, this comes down tothe type of talent that I work

(59:03):
with.
I don't work with talent whosework can't speak for itself.
So, like when I uh, when Ipromote somebody, I'm promoting
their work.
So if it's bad publicity, thenit's going to be bad publicity

(59:28):
around their work.
So if it's bad publicity, thenit's going to be bad publicity
around their work.
And and the the objective formy clients is to be loved for
their work.
Um, if you are on the realhousewives, yeah, probably all
publicity on the.

Real.

Pam Loshak (59:44):
Housewives yeah, probably all publicity.

Publicity is good publicity, that's fair.
So, pam, as we work our waytowards the end of the
conversation, we always want tohit advice for young people.
So if there are younger peoplelistening to this podcast who
want to, I mean they can'tfollow your path, because it is
certainly quite unique and it'sbeen an incredible story.
But if somebody wanted to getto the point where you are today

(01:00:08):
and become a comedy publicist,you know what guidance or advice
would you give them?

Pam Loshak (01:00:15):
Specifically to become a comedy publicist, or or
to get in the space, If you ifyou know that you want to become
a public, a comedy publicist,go get an assistant job at one
of the bigger agencies, like thebigger PR agencies.
I it's totally uh, stumblingupon this accident that I wound

(01:00:41):
up at in the publicitydepartment world.
It was not what I set out to do, um, but I think in general,
like career advice, what I what,what?
What was really valuable to meis, um, I kept putting one foot

(01:01:03):
in front of the other.
Um, I also do.
You know what I also listenedto like, um, a lot of like like
sports coaching mentality, stuff, like a lot of like boxing
mentality interesting does thatmake sense?

(01:01:24):
who said it?
And I know nothing about sports, but who's the why I was so
confused?
Because I know that who's thewho's the one?
There's a boxing coach who saidget up, just get up, whatever
you do, get up just get.

Tushar Saxena (01:01:40):
I would think that.
I would think that would beevery single boxing boxing
manager.

Yeah, but there was some boxing manager who said it,
who was like in a way that Iwas like that and I and I.
That plays in my head anytimethere's a disappointment any.

I feel like.
I feel like that was in, I feellike that was in the last wreck
rocky balboa movie okay.

Well, I don't know where I got it.
Like I said, I'm very aware ofmy shortcomings I do not know
anything about sports, but it'sbut there was stuff like that
and they, you know, I found thethings that, like, really spoke
to me.
There were certain songs thatspoke to me, so find those
things that, like, keep youmoving and keep and get the fuck

(01:02:23):
up, no matter what, just get up.
And also, like it was reallyimportant to me that I knew
myself very well, like I wasvery aware of what my strengths
and my weaknesses were and are,and I'm very aware of what my

(01:02:47):
talents are, what I had to offer.
That gave me an edge.
I knew I had a couple thingsthat nobody else had and I knew
that there had to be, like, Iknew that there had to be
comedians that would reallyrespond to having somebody on
their team who wasn't like agreasy, slick entertainment

(01:03:12):
person but who also reallyintimately understood the art
form.
And I really banked on that andit worked.
It didn't have to though Iwould have figured something
else out, you know but I, Ireally am doing, I'm, I'm, I'm

(01:03:33):
so happy professionally, I, I, Ican't believe how amazing my
professional life is, I, I, it'struly beyond my wildest dreams,
and there was a lot of luckinvolved, but luck is when
preparedness meets opportunity.

Larry Samuels (01:03:49):
And the no-quit attitude which I had the good
fortune of seeing a big part ofthis journey.

Oh, my God, larry, you were there.
You bought me meals.
I would have starved withoutyou.
Larry was.
I've known Larry for how longnow, almost 20 years?

I was thinking about it Like 20 years.

Almost as long as you've known.

Larry.

Shea.

Larry Shea (01:04:13):
I've known her since childhood, so come on.

I met Larry Samuels when I was working at William
Morris.

Yeah, at a serious event.
So, pam, if anybody you know,for those people who have been
inspired by this conversationand I know that you know a lot
of the work that comes your wayhappens via you know, word of
mouth and referrals, but isthere anywhere you'd want people
to you know be directed?
You know website or anything ofthat that would be helpful to

(01:04:40):
you no you can't find her butlike.

This is the thing.
This is a perfect example ofwhat I'm talking about.
Like, not like.
There are plenty of comedianswho want, they want a fancy,
pretty website and they want youto come in with the boardroom.
And then you know, I wasworking from home before COVID
made it cool.

Before it was cool.

But you know I don't have a website.
I do have, I mean, my Instagramis at Pam Loshack, but there's
only like 15, 20 pictures onthere, and they're all of my dog
noodle.

So I guess you don't need our help.

No, Pam, you are the first guest we've had on
this pod who's said no, do notcontact me in any way, shape or
form.
No, you can contact me, butthere's nothing like you.

giving me a follow doesn't do anything for my
career, but you're more thanwelcome to if you want.
Also, all the pictures are ofNoodle.
My dog is very, very cute.
He's very silly, he's a BostonTerrier and he's the best.
But I do not post a lot onthere.
So if you want to reach out tome, you can, I'll get it.

(01:06:03):
But if you just want to seewhat I'm posting, what you can
expect is like a really cutepicture or video of Noodle, like
once every seven months.

Perfect.
Well, I guess we'll do the bestwe can to help you by putting
this out there, and anyassistance you're willing to
give us we will certainly accept.
So, pam, you know what anincredible story you know, and
thank you, thank you so much fortelling it to us today.

Well, thanks for having me.
I'm honored to be invited.
I didn't think I mean truly.
There were so many moments forso long where I just couldn't
catch a break in my work world,like the fact that I'm like,
getting asked to do anything isalways something that I'm
grateful for.

So that was Pam Loshack, my good friend Pam
Loshack, who I hope lived up tothe billing that I set up for
her going into this conversation.
You know what an incredibleperson who persevered through so
so much.

You really picked up on.
The word that I really wantedto talk about here is that
perseverance.
You know she talked about thisnotion of you know, the first
job she had great job.
The next job, terrible job.
Really really hated the personthat she worked for at that
point.
And look, it ain't easy.
You know, when you have thatsituation, how do you get out of
it, how quickly do you get outof it?

(01:07:32):
And then, obviously, you knowto have bumps along the career
path.
You really do have that moment.
You really do have that momentwhere you kind of look at
yourself in the mirror and say,am I going to continue or do I
have to get you know a real job,so to speak?
Yeah, obviously you know shehas a real job.
But there is the path where yousay to yourself this is my

(01:07:54):
dream job, this is what I'vealways wanted to do and this is
what I'm always going to do.
Or do you say to yourself Ineed to pay rent next month and
that's the way I have to go?
That's a real question that alot of us are sometimes faced
with, and I can tell you this assomeone who's freelanced in the
past.
That is something I talkedabout to myself a lot during my
career.

Yeah, I think very impressive knowing how to get
out of a toxic work relationshipright and knowing when to leave
and how to get out, becauseyour mental health is important.
Sometimes we have to, you know,search around for the nuggets
right In these interviews, youknow.
But like when I talk to Pam andI hear things like know your
strengths and weaknesses, get upand put one foot in front of

(01:08:36):
the other.
You know, hustling, finding away, selling apples, doing what
you have to do.
I think that's fascinating.
And then also luck is whenpreparedness meets opportunity.
She admits she was lucky with alot of things, but luck, hard
work, dedication she's really afascinating story because we

(01:08:57):
don't talk about the adversitystuff very often, right, but
these journeys are hard andthey're long and she found a way
and that's great.

One thing I also picked up from her was like when
she talked about hey, you know,she said a boxing coach who
said the idea of always get upright, you know, there are
little things that you kind ofpick up along the way that you
kind of use for inspiration andwe didn't talk to her about a
mentor, so to speak, but alongour journeys we all kind of pick
up on things that inspire usand I even have things that I'll

(01:09:27):
even put that to myself and saythat, yeah, there were moments
in my career path that yeah,there were instances and moments
, little things that I can say Ireally, really relate to her on
that, that yes, there wereinstances and little nuggets
here and there that I used toinspire me to go forward as well
.
So for her journey I think herjourney and mine I really relate
to a great deal.

You know, and some of the things that stood
out to me were one,self-confidence, you know, as we
talk about having the faith tohang in there and to keep going
and to put yourself into anenvironment where you could be
successful and you could meetthe right people.
And you knew, you know thetalent set that you had, that

(01:10:07):
you could offer to people and tobelieve in that and to hang in
there long enough to make itstood out to me, handled and
knew to handle the HannibalBuress situation, like how did
she have the instincts and thestreet smarts to know to pull
him out of that situation whenit presented itself?

(01:10:30):
I just found it veryinteresting that she seems to
have the street smarts, thesavvy and the instincts to
handle some really complexsituations and her story can be
applied to a lot of differentbusinesses and professions.

Right, you know the get up, just get up.
I mean, that is just sobrilliant.
You can apply that to almostany field and it works.
So she's given you tools abouthow she did it, but they're
tools that we can all use in ourlives as well.

Without question.
And again, you know, havingseen her journey and having
lived part of that with her, youknow it's incredibly wonderful
for me and it feels good to havehad this conversation with Pam
today.
So with that, pam, thank you.
Thank you so much for joiningthis episode of no Wrong Choices
.
We also thank you for joiningus.

(01:11:17):
If this conversation made youthink of someone who could be a
great guest, please let us knowby sending us a note via the
contact page atNoWrongChoicescom.
As I mentioned, off the topseason, six premieres next week
featuring the lead veterinarianfrom one of the most famous
resorts in the world.
That will be followed byfascinating people from Broadway
, politics, music and beyond.

(01:11:39):
This is shaping up to be asuper interesting season.
On behalf of my co-hosts, larryShea and Tushar Saxena, and me,
larry Samuels, thank you againfor joining us and never forget
there are no wrong choices onthe road to success, only
opportunities, because we learnfrom every experience.

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