Heidi Germaine Schnappauf: From NYU Actor to Hollywood Stuntwoman

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Heidi Germaine Schnappauf (00:03):
I saw Karate Kid and immediately was
like I can kick his butt.
I kind of was questioning mylife and was faced with the
decision of what do I reallywant to be?
And I remember watching abehind the scenes of one of the
Tomb Raider movies with AngelinaJolie I was obsessed with her,

(00:23):
by the way and I saw AngelinaJolie was doing martial arts
kicks to a pad to someone thatlooked like her and I was like,
oh, what's that?
Oh wait, that's a stuntperformer.
And I remember that clicking inmy head like oh, that's a job.
I have a fear of heights.
We put on a climbing harness,went to this 60-foot tower and

(00:46):
we slept on the tower overnight.
The tower swayed back and forthin the wind.
So I'm up there and I'mfreaking out.
My all-time favorite, to thisday stunt opportunity was going
to Japan for several weekslearning a sword fight on a
rooftop in Tokyo, overlookingthe Tokyo Tower.

Larry Samuels (01:12):
Hello and welcome to the Career Journey podcast
No Wrong Choices.
I'm Larry Samuels, soon to bejoined by Tushar Saxena and
Larry Shea.
Today's episode featuresstuntwoman actor, writer and
director, Heidi Schnappauf.
Before we bring her in, pleasebe sure to like, follow and
subscribe to the show whereveryou're listening.
Let's get started.

(01:33):
Now joining no Wrong Choices isHeidi Schnappauf.
Heidi has appeared as a stuntperformer in countless TV shows
and movies, including Blindspot,mare of Easttown and both the
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles andAmazing Spider-Man franchises.
She has also acted in filmssuch as Hereafter, which was
written and directed by one ofour favorite previous guests,

(01:54):
harry Greenberger.
Heidi, thank you so much forjoining us.

Hey, glad to be here.

So that was a mouthful that I just went
through, but I can put togethera list, but nobody knows the
list better than you.
Was that an accuratedescription, Heidi?
How would you describe what youdo and who you are?

Oh geez, I mean it depends on the
day, to be honest, because thislist is kind of like never
ending.
It's funny, though, because I'musually introduced first as a
stuntwoman, because that's whatI've been made to be known for,
I suppose, and I feel like thatkind of encompasses pretty much
everything else that youmentioned, which is kind of
interesting.
Now that I this is, I can'tbelieve this is the first time

(02:35):
I'm actually thinking about it,but the whole stunt woman thing
combines a lot of acting, sportsfilm, all that kind of stuff,
so I'll roll into one.

Larry Shea (02:49):
Heidi, thank you so much for joining us.
This is Larry.
Shea.
How did this start?
I mean, what was the dream?
We always ask what was thedream, but are you dreaming of
being a stunt person, or is itsomething else that catches your
fire as a kid?

But it's funny because I now realize
my dream has changed so manytimes.
I mean, when I was a kid Ididn't realize what I was doing
as a kid was being a stuntperformer.
Like I would have friendslittle like friends in the
neighborhood and we would, youknow, get together and mainly
boys, sometimes like some of thegirls, but I like to like
roughhouse it.
I was in karate when I was akid and I would get all my

(03:20):
friends in the neighborhoodtogether and we didn't have a
camera but we made up fightscenes and the whole scenario
where there's a fight and ashootout and we have like all
these like fake guns and likebow and arrows that we made out
of sticks and things and I wouldset up a scene as if we were
filming it for a film almost youwere directing even as a young
kid.
This is a two shots being thereI was definitely bossy and

(03:42):
directing all the neighborhoodboys and uh, doing like fight
scenes when I was like eight ornine didn't even realize it
wrestling, and I remember theneighborhood.
There's like a neighborhoodlady who would be like er, stop
your roughhousing, and I'm gonnatell your parents.
And I have like a guy in like afull nelson.
I'm like it's fine nancy, we'refine.

Tushar Saxena (04:02):
As a young kid, there must have been that one,
that one movie that turned youon to be, okay, I want to try
and do this, I want to get thekids together.
I always had that one moviethat was for me, it was always
jaws, jaws was jaws or star wars.
Those were the two flicks thatI loved, my friends and I.
We would act out scenes fromthem.
What was that one movie thenfor you?
one movie or show for you as akid which was like, okay, we're

(04:25):
gonna, we're gonna put thisscene on it's funny because

I don't know that there was
necessarily one movie that Iwanted to reenact, but it was
like a combination of seeingkarate kid when I was a kid that
was super influential in boththe acting and the martial arts.
I saw karate kid andimmediately was like I can kick
his his butt.
You know I could, I could dothat.
And then there was a I thinkthere was a.
It was called like three ninjas, a little kid.

(04:50):
Oh my God, absolutely I rememberthat, yeah, right, and I think
I had maybe already startedkarate by then, cause I started
my brother.
I have an older brother, who'seight years older, who was a
brown belt in a style of karatethat very similar to the one
that I ended up training most ofmy life in.
My brother's pretty much thereason why I'm doing what I'm

(05:10):
doing, because he taught me howto play basketball, he taught me
karate, he kind of got me intoall the sports I ended up doing,
which kind of led to theathletic side, because doing
stunts in general you'rebasically a professional athlete
.
You're paid to use your bodyand perform all sorts of
athletic things, includingrunning, jumping, sometimes even
sports related, martial arts,driving, stunt driving and so,

(05:34):
yeah, my brother got me hookedpretty much and my dad said, all
right, you're doing this, we'redoing this, and signed me up
for karate, and that wasmajority of my life was in that
dojo at Sakura Martial Arts.

What was school like for you then as a young kid
?

I definitely was one of those kids
that kind of got along witheverybody.
I got along with the jocks.
I got along with the artsy kidsbecause I loved to.
I would make like fight scenesand things.
But I had this idea that maybeone of my dreams would be to be
an actor.
I would watch, like RosieO'Donnell, and pretend when she
had her talk show and I wouldpretend that I was like being
interviewed by Rosie O'Donnellas an actor.

(06:13):
I was very bored in school a lot.
I got good grades.
My dad was very much a sticklerof getting straight, a Like
there was no second place.
Same thing with my martial artsschool.
There was no second place, it'sfirst place loser, but my dad
was just very much.
So like always, no excuses,however, we need to do it.
My dad would even help mesometimes that you know, study

(06:34):
or whatever.
I had really hard time readingand but really easy time with
math as far as like scholasticsgo.
But I realized much later inlife that ADHD really is a thing
and I was just freaking bored.
I would arrive late and Iwouldn't.
Really it was more of a penaltyto arrive to school late than
it was to not show up at all.
So I would get to school andI'd be late and I'd hide in the

(06:56):
band room and the soundproofroom with like hide behind a
drum set until they would dolike homeroom and account people
either absent or not for theday and then write music, play
music.
The band director at the time Iguess I could say this now
won't get him in trouble, but heknew I was there sometimes and
he'd be like oh, heidi, again,really You're late.

So did you hang out and play music all day, or
did you eventually wind up inscience class?

Wrote , played music.
Second half of the day I wouldshow up to classes whenever I
could and I got the assignmentsand I did them and I wrote the
papers and I did all the things.
I just didn't really show up toclass a lot but I was very
active in band in both choirband did theater outside of
school.
It kind of leads me to mesneaking into my first audition.

(07:42):
My dad did not, did not want meto be an actor, but my dad was
also a musician, so it's kind ofweird.
He he hated the idea of someonegoing to school, I guess, to
become an actor, thinking likeyou know, I want something
stable, I want you to be adoctor.

We've heard that before.

I'm sure.

Other guests, it's always the father saying,
no, you can't earn a living, youcan't, you got to be focused
and driven.
And everybody seems to somehowfind a way around that.

I mean ask a doctor now what they
make.
I'm just saying it's not great,it's hard, it's hard to just
not.
Anyway, when I was a kid he wasvery excited that we had, like,
the bunny ears.
Is that what it's called therabbit ears?

Rabbit ears on the TV right.

Every now and then, like I don't know
how, but we got like TLC, thelearning channel.
They had a show calledOperation and in Operation they
literally would operate onpeople and it'd be like a
warning, like whatever.
I'm like eight or nine yearsold watching the show about like
a tubal ligation or vasectomyand I had these notebooks.
My dad was so excited because Ihad like a regular, like rule,

(08:44):
regular rule notebook and Iwould write on the front of the
notebook and a Sharpie tuballigation, dr Heidi Schnappoff.
And then I'd take scotch tapeand I'd laminate it with scotch
tape and writing down all thisstuff.
And I have like completesurgeries.
I remember for sure.
I remember three.
One of them was a laparoscopichernia repair.
One of them was a tuballigation.

(09:04):
The other was a vasectomy.

So in high school you're an athlete, you're into
martial arts, you're in themusic room, you're doing theater
, like were you in all the highschool productions and stuff
like that.

So my freshman year I did the.
It was Bye Bye Birdie, and I'mnot sure why.
I just I had a feeling that themusical director had it out for
me, and I'm not sure.
And I hear this story all thetime and I'm, you know, I'm 40,
41 years old and I'm stillthinking about my high school
musical director from my highschool play.
I remember the cast list cameout.

(09:37):
I auditioned, whatever.
I thought I had a pretty goodaudition, but I'm a freshman, so
, whatever, the bottom of thelist there's all the ensemble,
ensemble members, and then thereare like two extra names in the
bottom.
They're like okay, these twopeople are in it too, and I was
one of the two.
I'm like, really, I didn't evenmake it to like the ensemble.
So I see my name at the bottomof the list and, of course, me
being the smartest that I am.
I, um, I wrote my own part intothe play, into Bye Bye Birdie.

(09:58):
I gave myself lines, um, Ibecame friends with the director
.
May she rest in peace.
Elaine Bauer and I ended updoing a lot of the straight
plays because the musicaldirector wasn't involved.
I went into community theaterand I ended up like being in.
I think it was something like125 plays throughout my high
school career.
I loved being in the ensemble.

(10:19):
Actually it was one of myfavorite things in theater was
to contribute in that way and,to you know, create a character
don't't steal focus, but stillbe involved.
And even to this day, when I goto a Broadway show or something
, I'm very intrigued or veryinterested in seeing the
ensemble and how they interactwith the leads or the people

(10:40):
that you're supposed to kind ofpay attention to.
The high school musical is acombination of all that that
you're supposed to kind of payattention to.
The high school musical is acombination of all that.
I don't know if it's like thatin most high schools or in your
high school, but you know, allthe jocks come out and then it's
kind of a big melting pot ofall the different freaks and
geeks in the school.

Larry Shea (10:56):
So it sounds like the performance stuff came
pretty easy.
Oh yeah, Did you have anxietyor any kind of like performance
anxiety or anything that wasassociated with that?

Heidi Germaine Schnappau (11:06):
That's a really good question.
And I played Anne Frank inproduction of the Diary of Anne
Frank and I just would get sonauseous I would vomit before
every performance because I wasso into it.
But also like the stress ofbeing on stage and realizing
that's a lot of you know, it's alot of pressure because you

(11:27):
screw it up especially whenyou're anne frank and the diary
of anne frank you kind of itsure isn't a happy story.

That's for sure, yeah.

Larry Shea (11:34):
So how did you?
How did you deal with it?
How did you deal with theanxiety?
Did you face it head on,because obviously we're going to
get into the stunt woman andthe other stuff.
I mean, I'm sure there'sanxiety that comes with that as
well, oh, for sure.
But how did you face that headon?
Did you just push through it?
What did you use in terms oftactics?

Well, I had a little bit of
disordered eating because thatwas something that I could
control and it was somethingthat I'm sure a lot of high
school I shouldn't just limitthis to high school girls like
in high school is when you startnoticing things happening to
your body.
So I know that that caused anextra layer of anxiety.

(12:13):
But I would try to controlmyself or try to control things
in my life in that way or anyanxiety I have by what I was
eating.
But as far as practical,practical things that you would
probably should do, likebreathing and whatever, I just
made sure I knew my lines.
If it was a play justover-rehearsed, I just kind of

(12:35):
powered through and dealt withit at the time and I definitely
now wish that I had someone tocoach through that stuff.
And that's what I'm trying todo now to the younger people to
help them with any anxiety,whether it be, you know, their
looks, their performance,anxiety, whatever.

(12:56):
It's actually a really goodquestion because that's
something I didn't learn untilmuch later in life how to deal
with.
I still can't, I mean, I stillhave issues, but at least I have
tools now.

So what was life like after the high school years
?
What was next?
Did you continue with communitytheater?
Was college the next role, orwas it?
You know, I'm just going to gofull bore into the acting world.

I'm definitely the black sheep of
the family.
I'm like the weird stunt lady.

You went against your father's wishes and
actually acted.
Everyone else seemed to go intomusic.

Yeah, yeah, and my brother was
pre-med before he changed overto film film or communications.

Larry Shea (13:32):
But my dad got my brother to do the med.

But you're all creative.

Yeah.

Yeah, we're all in the creative
worlds in some way.
My brother I look up toimmensely because he's just my
brother.
You know, some people are likepretty good at a lot of things.
My brother's like ajack-of-all-trade master of all.

He's just so amazing so you went to nyu,
you're in new york and you're atone of the best acting schools
by reputation.

Well, first of all, my sat score
sucked because I'm bad attesting as, as I've told you, I
don't like going to school.
I was terrible at testing.
Fine, I, I knew all theinformation.
I was very slow, Realized later.
I just I had, like I had, alearning disability.
I was dyslexic, which I didknow.
Actually I knew that I wasdyslexic and you know ADHD and
all this stuff.

(14:16):
So I applied early decision toNYU because I knew I wanted to
go there, but immediately it wasjust it was just not an option
because I did not have the SATscores.
So but I got a scout, came tosee my senior musical, the Hello
Dolly, and I was ermine guard Idon't know if you know the show
and I made a meal of it becauseI was like you guys suck, I

(14:39):
definitely I'm not.
I'm not egotistical in any way,but I knew the talent.
That was at the high school andit was my senior year and I was
barely thrown a bone and I wasjust kind of pissed.
So I was like you know what,I'm going to dye my hair orange
and I'm going to play this part.
You know what I say?
I made a meal of it.
I didn't go beyond what thatpart?
That part is pretty annoying.

(15:00):
She's supposed to whine all thetime and I really like leaned
into it.
I'll say that much so somebodycame from local college, wilkes
University, so he scouted theshow and they ended up giving me
nearly a free ride and I waslike, well, maybe I like this
acting teacher, Maybe this isthe route to go.
And as soon as I was at Wilkesfor the first year, I was like I

(15:32):
am a big fish in a small pondhere.
I need an ocean, I need to seethe ocean.
So I applied to NYU as atransfer student, went to NYU,
got into Lee Strasberg TheaterInstitute for film and
television, theater, film andtelevision, and that was my, my
primary studio, and then theliberal arts education as well,
with NYU so you're working atNYU, you're learning your chops,
you're getting degrees that youdon't necessarily need, which

(15:55):
you know you totally want goodfor something, I'm sure, real
expensive pieces of paper but uh.
So while I was at NYU I was alsoworking.
Again, I was like one of thepoor kids so I also remember
being very hungry a lot.
But I did have a couple extraodd jobs while I was still in
college.
I was babysitting.
I eventually worked at arestaurant.
I don't know when I sleptbecause I worked like really

(16:19):
late at night.
I worked really early in themorning at a gym.
I went to school, I didprojects.
I did like a ton of likeindependent student film
projects using both the martialarts stuff and even this is
before stunts, not evenrealizing what stunts was or how
you know how it would play outin my life in the future.

(16:40):
But I would do fight scenes.
I would do driving, because Igrew up in Pennsylvania so I was
, you know, doing donuts anddoing stunt driving without
realizing it.
Was it?
The New York Film Academy wouldalways post stuff at NYU for
the actors to do stuff.
So I hopped over there and didsome New York Film Academy stuff
and both acted and did fightscenes and did whatever.

Larry Shea (17:02):
So at this point you're obviously doing the
performance stuff and that's thefocus.
So you're starting to slip insome driving stuff, some falling
scenes, fighting scenes andthings of that nature.
Did you ever think at anymoment, at this point I can make
a career of just this, or wereyou always going to do both at
all times?

I didn't register that a stunt
person or some performer, stuntwoman was even a job.
I was also directing.
I was directing a lot oftheater, directed a show at the
Producers Club in Manhattan.
I loved directing.
I loved, like I said, bossingaround the kids when I was a kid
, but I really loved thatcreative aspect of it and I
brought that into my performanceside.

(17:43):
I noticed being on theperformance side what went into
the direction, if that makes anysense and it also carried over
into stunt coordinating down theline.

Larry Shea (17:52):
I assume you're a method actor which, for people
who don't know, is completeimmersion into the character for
authenticity and things of that.
Now, you could probably explainit better to better than me I.
I studied acting, but I didmore like externals and things
like that.
So tell people, what about likelee strasburg, like what was
that experience like?

so actually I went to the Lee
Strasberg institute as part ofmy like.
It was associated with NYU asthe uh conservatory, so the
conservatory program at NYUTisch school of the arts, the
acting program had when I wasthere it was Stella Adler Studio
, lee Strasberg.
At the time it was CAP 21,which was the musical theater

(18:34):
Playwrights Horizon, which isactually where I kind of wanted
to go because I wanted to domore directing but was able to
do more performing and actingand directing and musical
theater and kind of like dip mytoes in a bunch of things and
film that was a really big drawto go into Strasberg so.

Larry Shea (18:51):
I was there, so you're everywhere.

I mean, like if there was
performance anxiety, like youmust have beat the hell out of
it by this point and that's thegood thing about directing too,
was I got to do all and samething with stunts, in a way,
stunts, and again we're going toget there very shortly.
But yeah it.
It was a way of performing andhaving a little bit less of that

(19:14):
anxiety, because I was.
It wasn't my face Generally ifI was being like a stunt double
or something.
There was a task at hand, likeget through the window.
Like my brain my ADHD brain wasdoing 25 things at once, which
was amazing.
By the way, being a stuntperformer is probably one of the
best things for someone who hasADHD.
Stunt performer.
It is great if they have ADHDbecause you can think that's

(19:35):
what's happening all the time.
I currently I didn't take myAdderall today, so I'm thinking
about 50 things at once rightnow.
But you know, you got to gothrough the window.
You have to have your handprotecting your face with a gun.
Your feet have to know what todo.
You have to remember how highthat ceiling is.
You have to know where your matis.
On the other side You'vecrashed through this glass.
You have to make sure that whenyou land you don't hit somebody
else because they're over there.
There's a camera over there.
You have to hide your face whenyou go.

(19:59):
So it's all these, even thoughit sounds super stressful to the
normal human to me, giving meanxiety just hearing this, and I
I realized now that I'm sayingit out loud, I'm like oh, this
does sound pretty complicatedand oh my god, but it gives a a
space for all that anxiety tospread out makes sense so what
was the first real gig that youhad then?

I mean, you know, obviously you've your time in
school.
It sounds to me like you knownot only were you a director,
but it sounds like you did somestunt coordinating as well yeah,
eventually.

Yeah, and I didn't even realize I was
stunt coordinating in college,but that's a whole other thing.

I so what was the first real gig?

so the first real gig.
So I was training to be anactor, right?
So I I think the first, uh oh,third watch, third watch it.
It was like an under five onthat and it was like a beaten
battered girlfriend.

Larry Shea (20:50):
They still have that under five right, Just so
people know that's under fivelines.

Yeah, that's not a thing anymore.
It's not a thing anymore.
It's not really.
No, not with.

Sag, I mean, does that mean they don't have to
pay you because it's less thanfive?

lines .
It's a certain scale.
No, it's a tier.

It's like a tier of-.

Larry Shea (21:06):
Yeah, that's a good way to say it.

Yeah, I thought everyone gets their start
essentially with the under five.
I mean, look, was it Law Order.
I mean famous for that, yeah,actually.

Law Order.
That is one of the biggestunder five shows because it's
usually like someone's, likethey, but they talk, so they
have to get a contract Right.
Or not.
My mom yeah, or something.

Larry Shea (21:27):
Whatever Easy to remember your lines, at least
these pretzels are making methirsty.

Nice, that was a great plot.

Nice, but I would consider my first
real gig, the one that I gotresiduals for Paranormal
Activity 2.

So you go to Tisch, you're doing all this
work, you're working with theselegendary coaches, and then you
start to audition.
And were you auditioning foracting roles?
Yes, how did this whole stuntthing happen?

So I did a bunch, actually a bunch,
of theater.
Still, I was doing someregional theater.
I even did like a couple ofcommunity things like in between
, like I'd I'd jump back toPennsylvania, um for like a
month and I would um do acommunity theater show.
I did I love you are perfect.
Now, change was musical.
I remember auditioning for somenational tours I got called back

(22:21):
for but never ended up booking.
One of them was Urinetown.
I just remember I got calledback because I told a really
dirty joke and two dirty jokesand another show called East
Meets West.
That I started to actuallybecome one of the developers for
this Broadway show and then itgot shut down for whatever
reason probably money, but itwas like a martial arts musical.
It was like right up my alley.

(22:42):
But these things just keptgetting shut down and I just
never really fit into verycleanly a musical theater box.
I decided very early on intogoing to NYU that I was not
meant to be a Broadway ensembledancer.
So stunts came about.
I was doing Anne Frank andplaying Anne Frank in when I was

(23:05):
20, early 20s and she's, youknow, 13 in the play.
But I looked very young.
I think I look pretty youngstill you still do, absolutely.
I don't look like I'm in my 40s.
So, doing Anne Frank, I hadlike a life changing thing
happen to me where I kind of wasquestioning my life and was

(23:27):
faced with the decision of whatdo I really want to be?
And I remember watching abehind the scenes of and this is
pivotal moment behind thescenes of one of the Tomb Raider
movies with Angelina Jolie Iwas obsessed with her, by the
way and I saw in the behind thescenes Angelina Jolie was doing
martial arts kicks to a pad tosomeone that looked like her and

(23:48):
I was like, oh, what's that?
Oh wait, that's a stuntperformer.
And I remember that clicking inmy head like, oh, that's a job.
It involves acting, it involvesbeing physical.
It also involves not being thestar, which is I don't.
I never really wanted to be thestar, even though I, like I
said, I pictured myself likebeing interviewed for being an

(24:08):
actor.
But the reality of it stressedme the frig out, I don't know.
It just seemed kind of perfectand I immediately was like how
do you become a stunt performer?
What is a stunt?
Double Blah, blah, blah.
I found a stunt school.
This is like this dirtybackwards Florida kind of gross,
I don't want to say gross, itwas just like just like dirty

(24:29):
and raw and I was like that'scool, I want to learn how to
jump off this thing and dofights.
I want to fall, I want to learnall like the basics and like it
looked like a prettycomprehensive.
Although it was kind of likequick and dirty, it was like
very comprehensive.
It looked really safe for forall intents and purposes.
But it was kahana stunt schooland I found that one and I found

(24:51):
another one that was in seattle, but, um, this one was cheaper
and uh and closer in closerflorida, you know it's an easier
drive, it in a day or two kindof thing.
I basically sold everything thatI could.
I eventually did.
I sold everything.
I bought this little ToyotaMatrix so that I could drive
down there and got to stuntschool.

(25:13):
And my teacher he actually justrecently passed away, kim
Kahana in his 90s but he saidyou know, you have to pick
something.
You can't just be doingeverything all at once.
He said eventually you can getto it all, but you're never
going to truly succeed atsomething if you can't water.
You can't water all the plantsat once.
You got to really to make itgrow.

(25:35):
You have to really tend to it,to your garden.
That was definitely a pivotalmoment.
I was like all right, I'm goingto commit myself to this, I'm
going to commit myself to this,I'm going to do it.
And I just put all my energyand focus into stunts.
And, sure enough, he wasabsolutely right.
I honed in on my skills.
I started watching movies andwriting down the names of all
the stunt performers that wouldcome in the credits and I'd look
them up.

(25:55):
I'd send letters.
I sent close to like 500, Ithink Wow, all said and done
like letters and emails and todirectors and coordinators and
stunt performers like a longlist of stunt performers, and
like four or five wrote me back.
Of the four or five, I was like, what do I do?
So, after going back and forth,I'm still those five people, or

(26:18):
four or five people that Ireached out to.
I can think of four off the topof my head, but I'm pretty sure
there might have been anotherone.
Anyway, I know who all of themare.
I can think of four off the topof my head, but I'm pretty sure
there might've been another one.
Anyway, I know who all of themare.
I'm still in contact with them,or friends with them.
One of them has actually becomea really close friend.
And then that web of people youknow, they know somebody, and
they show you this person, thatperson, that person.
So it started at five and then10 and then, like you know, 50,
and then start to when you'recommitted to something and when

(26:41):
you show up, people see that.
And as long as you're not anidiot and you just show up and
you have at least, you have tohave like a monogamous skills
are implied at this Sure.

Sure.
So that's a mantra on this show.
People can like at least dealwith you, like tolerate you for
more than, let's say, 15, 20minutes.

That's half the battle You're going.
It's who do you want to hangout with, to be honest?
Yeah, basically right, that'sright, that's it.

Larry Shea (27:04):
I'm glad you're talking about the various types
of stunts, though that you haveto learn the basics right.
You said that a few minutes ago,because what you don't realize
about this profession until youdig into an interview like this
is there's firework, there'sfighting, there's weaponry,
there's driving, there's allsorts of different types of

(27:26):
stunt work and just from hearingwhat we've heard so far, a lot
of these were threads in yourlife already the martial arts
stuff and the fake fighting whenyou were a kid and things like
that.
So how do you?
Obviously you're going to learnthe basics, but how do you
particularly find what you'regood at, what you want to focus
on?
Do you you think that whenyou're going to school at this
point, or is it like I'm justgoing to do it all and whatever

(27:47):
I'm good at I'll start to focuslater?

I went to stunt school, right.
So you kind of go over allthese things and I'm like, oh,
actually, because of my martialarts background and because I
like to direct, and because ofthis that the other thing I'm
actually very well suited forthis direction.
So I kind of became known asbeing a fighter.
Ground pounder is kind of oneof the terms that is used for
someone who's not afraid to takea fall, which I think all stunt

(28:13):
performers should be.
But that's my own thing.

Larry Shea (28:15):
A round pounder, ground pounder, so someone that
you can just throw around andyou don't have to worry about
them breaking.

Heidi Germaine Schnappa (28:21):
They're going to fall correctly and
that's the thing about Poundthem into the ground.
Exactly.
But so I'm the thing that'sgetting pounded, I'm pounding
the ground with my body.
So, like from the time I was,you know, I think I started
karate in classes when I was,you know, seven.
So six or seven I'm already inkarate classes by the time I'm
12, I'm teaching adult classes,teen classes, all that kind of

(28:41):
stuff getting thrown around.
So my body I'm, I've been thrownaround from the time I was a
kid until, you know, into mywell, into my twenties, and that
became an asset in stunts toknow that I'm not fragile, I'm
not that breakable you can throwme down.
And that was like a really goodbreak-in point for me in stunts
.
And that, coupled with the factthat I did martial arts and I

(29:03):
could dive, roll over somethingbecause that was karate You're
always doing like rolls oneither side, you're, you know,
getting uh just safe ways ofbreak, falling uh, was just an
everyday thing for me.
So that was kind of a reallygood break in point.
And then, because I did liketrack and field, I could run
fast, I could play basketball soI could jump and I had very

(29:25):
good accuracy because of martialarts, because of basketball,
because of this All right.

So when you go to stunt school, obviously, as
your teacher told you, you can'twater all the plants at once.
So there must have been likethat one stunt that you kind of
honed in on and said you knowwhat I really enjoy this?
Was it falling, was it holdingweapons, was it playing with
fire, so to speak?
What was that one stunt thatreally kind of connected with
you?

I mean just honestly like fight
scenes in general.
I ended up on a show calledBlind Spot and I was on that
show for all five seasons.
I came in about halfway throughthe first season as a character
, the main lady on the show, herlady, the main woman on the
show, her stunt double, ended uphaving an injury that took her

(30:09):
out and I became kind of closewith her while we were doing
that episode and she's like howtall are you?
And I'm like, why do you ask?
So by the end of that firstseason I ended up switching to.
I kind of phased her out and meinto being the stunt double and
I was afforded an opportunity,many opportunities, but my
all-time favorite to this daystunt opportunity was going to

(30:32):
Japan for several weeks learninga sword fight on a rooftop in
Tokyo overlooking the TokyoTower.
So I had like two major fightscenes.
One was with four-on-one me andfour guys and then me with a
girl with two swords.
It was incredible.
To this day nothing could beatit.
When I left Japan I was like Icould get hit by a bus tomorrow
and be happy.

How do you train for that Like is there a
choreographer there?
What's that process?

TV because it has to be repeatable
and it has to be shot fromdifferent angles.
For those of you who don't, whoare maybe listening and don't
know that, when you shoot atelevision show, like a Law and
Order or Blindspot, every sceneyou do you shoot it multiple
times.
So anytime you do a fight scene, you have to, it has to be
repeatable, has to be somethingthat they can get from different
angles.
And that's where a fightchoreographer comes in and we
often do now what's called aprevis or previsual, where the

(31:28):
stunt team will get together anddo this choreography and shoot
it from what we think the anglesshould look like, so that when
we get to set we're not wastingtime shooting angles that don't
work or things that might notblend together.
So the fight choreographer hasa really choreographer, has a
big role in doing that.
And in Japan I got there theyhad all this choreography ready,

(31:54):
plugged me into that.
I did not speak Japanese, theydid not speak English.
This was fun.
I spoke.
Luckily, because I studiedJapanese martial arts, I was
able to kind of communicate withthem At least.
Like I was like oh, front kick,side kick, you know, maegiri,
yokogiri, Moshi, so like I knewall like the Japanese terms in
fighting, which was actuallysuper awesome because I could at
least communicate with themwith choreography.
So they had it all planned outwith their stunt team, plugged

(32:18):
me into the choreography in acouple of weeks and then the
rest of the crew came to Japan,to Tokyo, to film it.

Larry Shea (32:24):
Let me ask you, though, after stunt school like
what I assume you're auditioningfor these stunts Like what is
that breakthrough, Like holy cowmoment of I just got this job?
I what?
Was it an audition?
A recommendation?
Like how was, what, was thatmoment for you?

It's funny because stunts is very
much so a by recommendation typeof thing you want to work with
who you want to hang out with,right.
So you don't know that untilyou get to know the person.
So the first thing I did wasfind out all these stunt people.
And then the people that didget back to me, like I was
saying, they kind of told mewhat to do, which was a thing

(33:01):
called hustling, where it's alittle different protocol these
days.
But back in the day you'd go toa set, you'd find the stunt
coordinator, you'd waitpatiently on the side, like if
they're shooting, like in adowntown area or if they're
shooting in a public place,you'd never really want to break
into a studio.
That's not really good form,unless you're working on another
project and you can scoot over,but that's kind of like later
in your career.
So you'd find the stuntcoordinator, you'd have your

(33:23):
resume and you'd wait until theywere like you know whatever,
and then you say, excuse me, mr,so-and-so I just I hope I'm not
interrupting, I just wanted tointroduce myself.
And you know you get your faceout there enough and they see
that you're committed to theyear around.
All right, tell me about thisgirl.
You train with this girl, isshe okay?
So that's how you get hired instunts, or how you used to

(33:44):
anyway.
And then you get an opportunitygrab that mat over there.
You got it, sir, can I help youwith anything else?
And I carry pads and mats andbuild boxes for box catches.
And I remember hustling a setonce and they were building box
catches and I was like, can Ihelp you guys out?
And they're like, yeah, grabsome boxes.
So basically you build boxeslike empty boxes, you fold them

(34:05):
up like into their shape andthen layer them in a specific
way so that you can do a highfall or a fall into the boxes as
opposed to an airbag and you'veprobably seen movies or maybe
behind the scenes of like peoplejumping into these big pillowy
things.
Well, box catches are used.
I prefer a box catch actuallyto an airbag, because airbags

(34:28):
you can bounce out of and it'skind of weird and they actually
feel like cement sometimes,depending on how high you are
and how stiff and full the bagis.
Anyway, there is a very nuancedthing.
High falls, that's a wholeother thing.
So box catches would be.
You know, you're jumping off ofsomething.
You're not really exactly surewhere the landing is going to be
, so it's a great way to landsafely.
Or they do it for vehicles aswell.
Sometimes they'll have a cargomaybe off of a ramp into like

(34:51):
layers and layers and layers ofboxes to catch it.
My first time into a box catchI was like great, I feel great.

I would be like.
.
.
Fuck, how do I get out of here?

Do you remember the first time you fell like
that?
I mean in a show, in a movie.
What are those emotions whenyou're finally taking that leap?

Let me just I know I'm not going to
get into like a deep story here,but in stunt school when we
first do high falls, you fallinto a like almost like a pad, a
resi pad.
Like almost like a pad, a resipad.
So think of like a biggymnastics like foam pad off of
a kind of a low, a lower like upnot even 10 feet, maybe eight
to 10 feet Like, if you thinkabout it, your ceiling is eight

(35:34):
feet.
Jumping up doesn't feel likeit's too high.
Putting your feet on somethingeight feet high and looking down
is actually kind of terrifyingif you're not used to the height
, I guess.
Or even just like looking overa balcony over a second story,
that's only 10 feet.
But when you're standing upthere you're like, oh, I don't
want to fall.
You know you get a little a lotof people.
Anyway, I have a fear of heights.

(35:55):
I didn't realize until I wentto stunt school and standing at
the 10 foot mark, I was like,all right, I'll get over this.
And I did.
I got, went into the pad and Ijust kind of like talked myself
into it get up to the 20 feet.
They had a small airbag.
Airbag has a running fanthrough it.
Think of like a bouncy housekind of situation with a fan
that runs in, except this hasflaps on the side so it absorbs

(36:18):
when you hit the bag, otherwiseyou'd bounce out or you'd like a
bouncy house, you'd bounce outso these flaps open up and you
have to know like, okay, okay,I'm going from this height, I'm
this much weight, I want theflaps to be open a little bit
more.
So you open more tabs, the wholething.
So I realized I was terrifiedand you learn how to fall on the
bag certain ways.
There's a thing called asuicide, which is, strangely

(36:39):
enough, like the safest, theeasiest one to teach people, and
they call it a suicide.
A header is headfirst.
We always land the same wayAlways land on your back.
Whether it's that or face offis where you start to go in face
first, and then you turn yourbody and you end up landing on
your back last minute.
So you learn all this kind ofstuff like on a trampoline, so
you know how your body moves inthe air.
So then we learned to do itinto an airbag or into a box.

(37:01):
So you're talking about myfirst time doing.
It was at stunt school.
Thankfully, one of theinstructors I was talking to I'm
like, dude, I can't.
I climbed up to the third storyon the day that we were one of
the first days we were doinghigh falls and I was like can't
do it, can't do it.
I know I'll be fine, but I justcan't do it.
So what he did was we put on aclimbing harness, went to the

(37:25):
60-foot tower and we slept onthe tower overnight.

Larry Shea (37:30):
Oh, my God.

And there was about, I want to say
maybe six by six foot.
The top of it was very smalland there were two of us up
there Tied off Like I was very,very safe, but the tower swayed
back and forth oh my god in thewind, so I'm up there and I'm
freaking out, but I was like, no, I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna do

(37:54):
it, I'm gonna do stunts.
I, I trusted him, I trusted thefact that I was I don't trust
anybody that much um I mean getover your fear of heights
quickly, I guess I honest to god, I I shit you not.
I woke up at the top of the60-foot tower in the morning.
I looked over the edge and Iwas like okay, and I went down,

(38:14):
went back down to that 30-footthing that I was freaking out
about.
I was like nothing, this isfine, but I remember that was
like breaking the horse in thatnight.

Larry Shea (38:25):
Yeah, it's so funny, funny.
We have so many of theseinterviews where, like you can't
have a bad day at the office,like bad things are going to
happen, right, but let's getback to that breakthrough moment
real quick, because I want toknow what that first.
Like someone's going to pay meto do all this stuff that I just
learned how to do.
What was that moment?
What was that thing?

well, aside from paranormal activity
too, like I said, was the firstkind of major movie residual
stuff, like it was just uh, sometackling.
There's some like basic kind ofmovement things and fight
things.
But I'm trying to think of,like what the first high fall I
did?
I did a bunch.
I did a bunch of high falls Idid some into.

(39:06):
I did one on uh, on jessicajones okay, now these are just
phone calls that are happeningto you.
You go, you introduce yourself,you put your face in front of
them, you you hand the resume,and then what a random phone
call so then, and then it goesto those like carrying the mats
and building the boxes and, um,you get a shot.

(39:26):
And I think one of the firstshots on television that I got
was on a show where thecharacter was barbed wired to a
ceiling, face down and she wasdead and hanging out up there in
a harness, like you don'trealize, like how hard that is
because all the blood's rushingto the front side of your body.
You can't have an actor do that.
Um, I mean you could, but itwould be very, very difficult.
They wouldn't like it.

(39:47):
They wouldn't like it no.

So it was like a little bit of acting Exactly.

So you know, just being in a
harness for that long, that wasprobably one of my first stunts
and one of my first big, majorthings, and I know you're
talking breakthrough moments.
And it's funny because I feellike I was just sort of cracking
the surface little by littleand just chipping away until I
was given that shot.
You know, you gotta earn it,you know.
So I started off small.
I started off actually.

(40:12):
I remember hustling a set onceand the coordinator was like you
ever been in a harness?
And I was like totally lying,yeah, totally, he's like you,
afraid to be upside down.
I was like, nope, he's like allright, the stand-in.
We were to put the stand in in aharness, but she's scared, so
we'll put you in a harness.
We're going to hang you upsidedown in this car so they can set

(40:32):
up this next shot.
And he was testing me, totallytesting me.
I was just hustling, I wasn'tworking.
There was no reason that theproduction should have allowed
someone who was not working tobe in a harness in a car upside
down while they set up a shot.
But I remember that that was atest for me and there were
pieces of glass like temperedglass, which is great to break
through because it breaks into amillion pieces, so you don't

(40:55):
get like shards of glass doingglass work.
I don't know if you know that,but also they had a lot of fake
glass around, but there werestill some pieces of tempered
glass from this windshield thatbroke.
I remember climbing into the carand as I climbed in a piece of
glass, sliced my hand off.
I started bleeding.
Oh wow, son of a bitch.
I'm like I'm trying to impressthis guy.
I'm trying to hide the factthat I have this gash in my hand

(41:18):
from this glass, just likecrawling into the car.
Um put the harness on and Iremember one of the it was
either the stunt person or itmight've even been the
coordinator at the time who waslike if you feel like you're
going to pass out, it's too late.
And I was like, oh okay, he'slike have you been upside down
before?
I was like, yeah, he's like.
Well, so you know that if youstart seeing stars, it's too

(41:39):
late.
So when you feel like it mightbe getting close, let me know.
And I was like shit, I don'twant to be a wuss and say too
early, I don't want to, you know.
So that was a huge test.
I ended up working for thatcoordinator down the line, and
he was.
He ended up being my one of myhuge major mentors.
His name is Norm Howell and Idon't think he even knows that I

(42:01):
cut my hand that day, so Ididn't tell anybody.

Did you see stars ?

I was fine during most of them.
The very, very last setup thatI was up there, I was like I'm
going to okay, I saw them comingover.
I'm like, okay, we're good.
But talking about that, the jobwhere I was face down.

Yeah.

Heidi Germaine Schna (42:20):
Definitely , when the person came, it was
supposed to be tested it out andwe did 30 minutes.
And that's when I started tofeel things go numb in the test
for that one.
And then he was like, all right, so if we needed to go to 45
minutes we could.
I was like, yeah, definitely,like I'll be numb but I'll be
fine.
Two and a half hours later, onthe day that we shot it, I

(42:42):
recalled I remembered NormHowell saying if you see stars,
it's too late, right.
So I'm up there and I had likethis like gash in my head of
somebody carved in this likedemonic thing into my head,
right, right, right.
And in the scene like theywanted to put a blood tube so
that it would like drip onto thecamera.
So the last shot was the makeupperson came up to put this tube

(43:02):
in.
So it looked like the blood wasdripping down onto the camera.
And she came up and I said, hey, can you just tell valerie?
Valerie was one of the stuntgirl, the stunt girl that was on
the side.
I was like, can you tellvalerie I'm starting to see
stars and she go and I'm goingto pass out soon.
And the makeup girl I remembershe's like looking up at me and

(43:22):
she's like, um, okay.
And they're like, okay, let'sgo.
And she's like, uh, uh, likenow she has this responsibility
and she doesn't know what sheshould do.
To tell who to tell?
And I I realized now that wasprobably not a good idea did she
save you?
uh, she just backed away.
They did the shot and I, Ithink I I'm not.

(43:45):
I'm a little unclear as to whathappened after this, because I
did pass out, but she wentaround and I remember, as they
were lowering me, the second,the, the like, because it was I
was on, um, there was like acrane thingy that was holding me
through the ceiling, so therewas this wires holding me, and
then there's wires up in theceiling sucking me to it, and
then the barbed wire thing on me.

(44:07):
So then they started loweringme down.
And as I'm lowering down, all Iwas thinking was, oh, bye-bye.
And I woke up and Valerie wasthere and she's like you're okay
, you're okay, I covered for you.
So pulled me aside.
I had oxygen, I had to putoxygen on.
They asked me like who thepresident was, where I lived,

(44:32):
and I was like I live in a housewith bricks and they're like oh
, put the oxygen on.

They put the oxygen on my head.

Close enough, let it go 20 minutes
later, they're like okay, wheredo you live?
And I was like kingston,pennsylvania.
My family's from there and Ilive in new york.
And they're like who's thepresident?
And I remember being like obamaand they're like okay, you're
good and your takeaway was Iwant to do this again.
I was like this is awesome, andnow I know it's true if you
start to see stars, it's toolate all right.

So you've done all this work now as a
essentially as an individual ofhustling, hustling gigs,
hustling on sets, hustling,getting that gig.
So you've built a career.
At this point You've gone frombeing essentially a student to
now becoming a real teacher.
So what was that first stuntcoordinating gig for you?
Because obviously you saidyou've gone on to stunt

(45:17):
coordinating.
I have a whole bunch of otherquestions I kind of want to
build off of that.
But what was the first time youwere being a stunt coordinator?

So actual paid for a show of my own
.
So I did Blindspot.
On Blindspot there was a unitproduction manager who really
believed in me because as astunt performer, you're working
with set designers, you'reworking with construction
because you're going to needthem to build something for you
to complete the stunt.
You're going to need to talk towardrobe because you're going

(45:45):
to need to cut holes in thingsto put wire.
So being a stunt coordinator ismore than just coordinating the
stunt.
It is being able to have opendialogue and talk to the other
crew members.
So she really had faith in meand she did this show called At
Home with Amy Sedaris and shegave me this opportunity.

(46:06):
She's like look, I'll hold yourhand through it.
I know you've never really donethe meetings and all this stuff
and I was like, well, I justgot to get the okay from the
other coordinators in New Yorkto like get their blessing.
So I was in New York at thetime, back in New York from LA.
So I started in LA, ended upback in New York, be closer to
family and started my blind spotcareer there, basically to

(46:30):
family, and started my blindspot career there, basically and
, uh, got the blessing fromother coordinators that I.
I set up lunch meetings withthem so that I was like, hey, I
really want to take this job.
You know, do you think I can doit and can I maybe ask you
questions along the way?
So had this really good backupreferences or people that I
could call if I needed to.
So that show it was a sketchshow, kind of like a Saturday
Night Live type sketches.

The Sedaris show.
Yeah, it was a sketch comedyshow.
I remember that, yeah.

So it was a great first show to do
too, because it was a lot of fun.
Amy Sedaris was so much fun.
I think I ended up spendingmore money than I made on that
show because I would be like Ijust want to make sure my
performers that I hire are safeand the production did not have
a big budget like they wouldhave major like.
Uh, rose Byrne came in likethere are so many amazing actors

(47:15):
and they were working on theselike $200 contracts, you know.
So, like it wasn't, nobody didthis show for the money.
However, it was one of the mosteducational.
I did three seasons.
I was probably one of the onlycrew members in general that
lasted all three seasons, um,but learned so much, um, and got
to coordinate some really coolfun things.

(47:36):
Like amy sedaris in one of thescenes runs onto.
It was in a meat freezer andthere's like a life-size whole
ham or cow or something in thismeat freezer and she wanted to
run and grab onto it and slide.
You know like how they havelike in butcher shops.
I guess In the meat freezer in abutchery Butchery.
I don't know, is that what youcall it, butcher Butcher?

shop.
I don't know.
I think it's the butcher.

Heidi Germaine Schnappa (47:59):
Butcher .
All right, she was like I wantto run and I want to jump on a
big slab of meat and slideacross.
I was like, all right, let's doit.
So you know, fun stuff likethat.
And she had to do a stair fall,she had to be in a jazzy and
crash into, you know, an armoire.
It was fun stuff.

Larry Shea (48:15):
I want to ask you about your proudest moment on
set.
I'm sure it's not jumping ontoa big meat slab and sliding
across the room.

That sounds like fun, though I gotta admit.

Larry Shea (48:24):
Do you have like a moment where you're like maybe
even the stunt was intimidatingand you're like I think I can do
this, and then you pull it offand you were just like whoa.
An amazing, proud moment likethat I feel like or favorite
moment.

Heidi Germaine Schnapp (48:39):
Honestly , in Japan just getting through
that was-.

Larry Shea (48:42):
That's right.

So I was very proud of myself for
just surviving.
No, I was actually so gifted, Iwas so lucky and so grateful,
and so it was such a gift iswhat I'm trying to say to have
had the people, um, that I hadin every step of the way.
Now I'm talking about, like anystunt I've ever done, it's

(49:04):
never.
You're never alone.
You're always relying on otherpeople.

Larry Shea (49:07):
Right, I read it was like 90% talking and planning
and 10% doing.

Yeah, maybe even less yeah.

Larry Shea (49:14):
Okay, yeah.

And people they go, oh, it's such a
cool job.
I'm like, yeah, the 3% you seeis like the cool stuff.
But that other 97% is thetraining, is the training, is
the setup, is the.

Larry Shea (49:24):
This is the talking is the other people like the
people that build the boxes.

You know, and I'm there the day that
I'm doing a high fall, I'mbuilding boxes too, until I have
to go prep or do whatever I'mdoing.
Um, jessica jones, like when Ibroke my neck, I had a pretty
bad neck injury from a high fallinto boxes actually, but it had
nothing to do with the setup,had nothing to do with the
people, was just a veryunforeseen.
But that is actually one of mymost proud moments because I
rehearsed.
I went and, knowing the stunt,went to my friend's house.

(49:50):
We blew up the airbag.
I kind of got a rough estimateabout how high I was going to be
, because the stunt was jumpingover a balcony into the bank and
I knew I had to do a face-off,so it had to look like she was
going to land on her feet.
But then the last second Iturned over and landed on my
back into boxes.
So I practiced this on myfriend's rooftop enough so that

(50:13):
I felt super confident when Igot there.
And we get there, they're likeoh, we have to jump on this
bench and then a banister that'slike the size of half of the
width of your foot and then dothe high fall over the thing.
But because I had been superdiligent and practicing, I was
super confident in the stuntitself.
So, like, adding on those twoextra elements were fine.
It wasn't like I was showing upand I had to do the jump and

(50:35):
the leap and the this and thenfigure out where I'm going to go
.
And you know, I already hadthat stuff planned out and as
best as I could.
People think that sometimesthey're like oh, you know, know,
you're really over-preparing.
I'm like that is kind of a whatis over-preparing when it's not
for a job like this when you'retalking about not trying to

(50:56):
break your neck.

Yeah, over-prepare, yeah.

So when I landed, it was just an
unforeseen stiffener in theboxes, like the upright of the
box had a thing in it thatnobody knew was there and it
caught my shoulder blades.
And I was going at such a highheight that when I hit it it
slid from my shoulder blades andgot stuck on my neck.
And this is where that martialarts background comes into play

(51:20):
too, where I, every time youfall, as a martial artist, you
want your chin to go slightly tothe side, because you don't
want to.
If your chin were to gostraight to your chest, in
theory you could snap yourspinal cord, but if you're off
to the side, at least you have achance, chance or shot.
I said shot, that's weird, ashot.
Chance.

let's go with shot.
That sort of fits the theme, Ithink, for today.
Can you tell us what yourscariest moment was?

I don't know what that would be,
because I feel like they're allkind of scary in their own way,
um, and also I don't think Iwould do something if I was
truly, genuinely scared.
However, oh, I actually know, I, um, I have, I'm terrified of
drowning.
I drowned when I was 12 and Ihad to get like resuscuscitated

(52:08):
from a lake because it was darkand I couldn't see.
I dove really deep in a lakeand I couldn't figure out which
way was up and I finally, like,let a bubble go and I figured
out, but by the time I got tothe top, I had inhaled water and
there was like a fish head witha scale like you see in, you
know, cartoons.

Larry Shea (52:22):
Oh, my goodness.

Heidi Germaine Schna (52:23):
Terrifying .
After that I and, oh mygoodness, terrifying, uh, after
that I and I used to be like awater bug.
I used to be in the water allthe time but uh, I, I had to get
drowned.
I had to get, was it?
Yeah, I had to get drowned onblind spot and the guy had to
shove my head into water.
It was terrifying and everynight.
But leading up to that stunt, Iactually started off by putting
my face just in in a bowl ofwater in my sink.

(52:45):
I filled it with water and putmy face in and then I went in
the bathtub and did it and Iheld my breath and then I tried
to get myself to breathe alittle bit of water to see what
it felt like.
So that I was doing.
I did like everything I couldpossibly do to alleviate what
like the initial shock onset.
Like when I trained martialarts, they train you getting
choked so that you know what itfeels like and you get over that

(53:07):
initial.
You know your central nervoussystem like freaking out, your
parent sympathetic nervoussystem like freaking out.
So I did that like for theweeks leading up to it and I
still had a little bit of apanic moment on set and it was
just terrifying.
But I thank the Lord I did theprep work for that because I
would have that and gettingburied alive.
Actually I had to be put in abox in the ground.

Larry Shea (53:29):
It's called being human, oh my.

God.
So let's see, I trained bywaterboarding myself.

I did , I did, I trained myself.
Actually, waterboarding was oneof the things and Jamie was
like I got this.

I'm like are you sure, Because they put the towel
over her face, yeah, the towelover you, right.

And she was like I literally drowned
like, yes, because that's whathappens when you put a wet towel
over your face and pour wateron you.
You drown.

That's the whole thing yeah, can we go back to
buried alive for a second?

yeah, what happened there?
Um so I in the storyline theyput her in a coffin.

In a wooden coffin.
Which show is this or whichmovie is this?
Blind Spot, okay Blind.

Spot and I knew it was coming and so
I prepped myself for that too.
Like mentally I used to havelike so afraid of heights and
claustrophobic, so bunk bedswere like out for me when I was
a kid and I just remember beinglike okay, I need to like
breathe.
And I went through this wholelike breathing.

(54:30):
I knew I was going to be in abox, so it was like a pine box.
I had to lay in the box and Iknew that he was going to close
the box and throw dirt on me sixfeet in the ground and that was
like a real thing.
That was happening.
Oh my god and they had the medicthere and they had everybody
and they had everyone ready tolike because.
And then, of course, I rabbitholed and like, went on the
internet and buried alive andhow long do you have in a box
and like how?
another day at the office and solike having like a code word if
I was really freaking out oryou know, that was helpful but

(54:53):
also like well, what if I passout and I can't say the code
word and I died, and then I waslike, well, they're not gonna
let me be in there that long.

So worst case scenario, I pass out easy for
you to say how long were youdown there not, it was seriously
not that long, but it wasterrifying for everyone else to
watch.

And it was also the lead up to it.
I had finally come to peacewith it, like come to terms with
it myself throughout the day.
But leading up to it,everyone's like oh, are you?
Are you freaking out aboutgetting buried alive and all
this stuff that could go wrong,and I'm like you're not helping.

Yeah, I am now.

Thanks for making me aware of that.

Larry Shea (55:31):
Why does somebody have to be in the box at all?
Because they're shooting insidethe box.

And then they did a whole other
thing where we did like on thestages, we created like stuff
inside the box, but they neededto see her body go in, Right,
they thought this would be areally good shot of her no
cutaways of her getting in thebox, the box, a box, shedding
the dirt going on Right.
Oh my God, it did look reallyterrifying, cause you're like
there's no cut, there's a personin that box.

Larry Shea (55:54):
Yeah, someone's in the box, yeah.

Did you ever see the movie buried with Ryan
Reynolds?

No.

Oh, my God.

Watch this.
I'm probably glad I didn't seeit.
Watch this movie.

Larry Shea (56:03):
That's such a great story though.

Wow, you kind of lead us into our next question,
which is the training involved,the lifestyle that's involved in
what you do.
Obviously you can't train for,or maybe you do, maybe you can
train for every injury, so youdon't get it, but injuries are
going to be part of theday-to-day.
So what is that lifestyle like?
What is that training like?

So I like to say we get hurt a lot.
We try to avoid injury.
So you're going to get hurtbecause that's your job.
Your job is to do the dangerousstuff that people don't do, but
your job is also to not getinjured and become a liability.
So you're right in a sense thatyou do train to not get injured
and the more experience speaksvolumes, because experience over

(56:52):
time you see what could gowrong.
Unfortunately, you see the badthings and there are always
going to be more bad things.
But the more experience youhave and the more you take in
from people who have experience,so you have your own
experiences.
I try to talk to as many peopleas possible before doing a stunt
.
Hey, have you done this?
Have you done this?
What's your experience?

(57:16):
Like doing like a bail out of acar.
You have your own experiencesand you can train it.
You can like.
When I did my first car bail,which is a moving car, you jump
out the door.
The first time I did that Iwent to my friend's farm.
He had a four by four, what'sit called?

Larry Shea (57:30):
Yeah, like a four wheeler type.

Did I mention I got hit in the head a
lot, no.
So we like, timed it, the quad,I had this, the speedometer on
it.
I did different speeds andmarks.
So if I jump out here, if I seethe mark, then it's eight feet
from the time I see the mark andthe time I jump, If I'm at 15
miles an hour it's 10 feet, Ifwe're at 15 or 20 miles an hour,
whatever the thing is.
So I had a little notebook, Ihad my own experience.

(57:57):
I asked people like how do youfall out of the car, how do you
do it?
And I've got you know.
You layer on these experiencesso you do prevent, so you can
prevent yourself from gettinginjured as opposed to getting
hurt.
I have a huge scar on my hand.
I call it my blind spot tattoo,because we changed the N mark
for one of these car bales and Iwas like, if my calculations

(58:18):
are correct, I'm going to landright on that manhole cover, but
I'm going to protect my head.
So when I land on it it'll bemy hand, not my head.
Nothing I can do about it.
That's just where we're goingto land.
I'm telling you because if thisis the mark and we move the
mark up eight feet, I know whereI'm going to land.
So luckily I was prepared forthat.
I did hit the cover.
They tried to put dirt on it.
We tried to do the best wecould with what we had and have

(58:39):
this nice little hole in my handnow.
I say blind spot tattoo becausein the show, the blind spot,
the character I doubled, wascovered in tattoos, Jamie.

Larry Shea (58:49):
Alexander, right?
Yes, the character I doubledwas covered in tattoos.
Jamie Alexander, right yes,jamie.

Heidi Germaine Schnap (58:52):
Alexander .
Yeah, she's incredible, one ofthe most amazing human beings on
this planet by the way, verycool.

You know, as you touch upon her, I was going to
ask about training and how oftenyou have to be in the gym and
stuff like that.
But before we hit that, as longas you bring up Jamie Alexander
, are there actors you've workedwith who like to do their own
stunts, are more brave thanothers, who are some people that
stand out in that realm?

Well, jamie, really in the beginning
and I only say this because herbody just got trashed after a
while In the beginning she wasreally gung-ho about doing what
she could.
But also the good thing aboutJamie is that she knew that this
is a stunt thing Like you dothis but she wanted to be as
authentic as possible and notonly did she want to do her
stunt, she wanted to know what Iwas doing so that we could

(59:41):
seamlessly go in and out.
So, like I would do a role andshe'd be like how did you come
out of this?
And I'd be like and how are yougoing to go into this?
And I would see what she wasgoing to do.
She come out of this and I'd belike and how are you going to
go into this?
And I would see what she wasgoing to do, she would see what
I was going to do, and we wouldreally.
We worked really well togetherin bridging that gap, which I
think is paramount to creating arealistic performance.
So she I have to commend herthe most on that for really

(01:00:02):
wanting this to look good and todo it right and not just say I
did the stunt.
You know what I mean.
So she was always gung-ho fordoing whatever she could to make
it look as best as it could, tothe best of her ability and
knowing where her abilities lag.
So I have to say that that wasprobably the best person and we
worked together for a really,really long time.
We would work out together.

(01:00:23):
So because she was vegan, I waslike I guess I'm vegan now
because I got to look like her.
So I'm vegan now because I gotto look like her,

Larry Shea (01:00:29):
so that really, I mean Method.
Acting, that's right.
That's not acting, that'sbiology, that's just like.

Larry Samuels (01:00:34):
I learned something today.
There you go.

Heidi Germaine Schnappauf (01:00:41):
And I have to say also, kate Winslet
was really wanting to do a lotof things but again was like if
this looks better, if you do it,I don't care if you do it.
And there were things where Ihad to, like, fall down the
stairs and I'm like you don'twant to fall down, you're not
even going to see me, they'regoing to see my legs, like
getting beat up.

But she debated it, she thought about it.

I don't think she even thought
about it.
I think she was like, yeah, goahead.
She was like if I don't need tofall down the stairs.
I don't know, I'm not going toit.
Just kind of had her at the,but she was.
She's a badass, she's.
Kate Winslet was just a doll towork with.

Tushar Saxena (01:01:12):
And great show too.
By the way, that was a greatshow yeah.

Oh, so mesmerizing?
This seems like an appropriatequestion, but I don't want to
put you on the spot.

But if you could have any superpower
that would make your job easier, what would it be Any
superpower to make?

my job easier, like as a stunt woman maybe no pain?

well, not no pain, because I think
pain is a good indicator ofreaction and being a good actor,
but maybe like a regenerativesuper oh, okay, like a wolverine
, yeah I like that.

That's good.
That's a great answer, becausethen you could still do the job
and then just be, like good foranother take.
I have to ask after a crazy dayon set of you falling down
stairs and jumping out of cars,what do you do to unwind?
How do you get back down?

You have to understand that social
life doesn't exist.
I have missed many a weddingfuneral.
I mean this if you're and thisgoes back to like watering the
garden you're committed to yourjob, you get hired because
you're reliable.
You're hired because they knowthey can count on you and in
order to make a living and to bethat reliable person.

(01:02:27):
You can't just be like, oh, Ican't do the rest of this job, I
have to go to a wedding.
It's like that's your.
You can't just be like, oh, Ican't do the rest of this job, I
have to go to a wedding.
It's like that's your life.
You know it becomes your life.
But as far as like unwinding,honestly, my job is so, at least
up until now in my career thejob itself is so fulfilling that
, oh, I do like to eat.

(01:02:47):
I do like food and that isactually the one thing, like the
one reward, and I found a groupof other stunt people that
share my love of food.

They're all foodies like you.

True foodie.
When I got my first bigpaycheck, the first thing I
wanted to do was to go to BlueHill at Stone Barns and do their
tasting menu.

Sure, that place is great.

Oh God.

It was worth every penny every penny, I
assume you're no longer a vegan.
Oh no, I was I mean andhonestly, like it is crazy how I
I saw her body changing.

I'm like, oh, I gotta, you know, get
a little thinner in certainparts of my body and I'm like I
guess I'll.
Just I couldn't think of whatelse to do, so I just started, I
started eating like she did,and I did started looking like
her, but and I did start lookinglike her.
But then I noticed I wasgetting thin and things started
hurting when I was fallingbecause I wasn't as built and I

(01:03:40):
figured it out eventually, butit's true.

So I'm curious and I don't want this to be a
downer question, because it'scertainly not intended that way,
but I feel like I have to ask arealistic question.
So you're in a business that'sall about your body and your
strength and your training andyour ability to take a punch, so
to speak.
How long do people typicallystay in your profession?

(01:04:09):
Are there stunt actors who are50, who are 60?
And if not, what do people tendto transition to?

Some people do transition into
coordinating or directing, untilthe day she died.
Jeannie Epper, who was WonderWoman's stunt double, Linda
Carter right.

Yeah, Linda Carter.

Okay, wow, Again hitting it.
Linda Carter's stunt doubleworked like the day she died.
I was in amazing spider-man 2with her when she was in I want
to say her 70s oh, wow um, butlike you know, you're not going
to be doing full-on car hitswhen you're 70, but like you get
hit in the face and fall downand you were saying earlier

(01:04:48):
about like all the differentstunts, like, like the fire, the
fighting, the driving, you'releaving out the things like
protecting the camera or beingthe person that buffers the
background to the main action,or there's a fire and you're
just on the perimeter.
That's the job of a stuntperformer as well, because
there's risk involved andthere's one in maybe a hundred
chances that something willhappen.

(01:05:09):
But in that case that stuntperformer is worth every penny
because you catch somebody, oryou just happen to catch like a
bullet shell to your face asopposed to a background person
or somebody else, which hashappened on set near me with
stunt performers.
So all this again, like that'swhere, like, the experience
comes into play, and seeing whatcould go wrong and trying to

(01:05:30):
prevent all that and that isanother aspect of being a stunt
performer is being that theycall it the not hot hotspot is
what Jill Brown used to say.
So yeah, it doesn't seem likemuch, but it could be your
saving grace in the scene.

All right.
What Sam asked was actually areally good question, which was,
you know, the idea of the shelflife.
I want to ask you a little bitmore about the transition of
what a stunt performer, slashcoordinator has now become.
Obviously, in my opinion, johnwick is one of the most

(01:06:13):
influential films in the last 20years, easily, because you
cannot have an action film thesedays without putting in the
work of it has to look like johnwick, right, because and that
was essentially a stuntcoordinator who then moved to
the next evolution of his career, which was a director- Right, I

(01:06:33):
mean second unit up to actuallybeing yeah.
Yeah to the guy.
It takes that realism to awhole new level.
Obviously, keanu Reeves is oneof these guys who's all about
trying to do his own stunts.
Tom Cruise is another one.
He does lots to do a lot of hisown stunts, almost to the point
where I think he might have adeath wish.
Yeah, he likes to do a lot ofhis own stunts, almost to the

(01:06:55):
point where I think he mighthave a death wish.
If you watch some of his othermovies, are you a lot more
impressed now to see theevolution of your profession,
where it was essentially justyou're just the person who falls
off the building to now you'recalling the shots in many cases.
Like you are as important asthe director in many cases
because you make a movie lookrealistic.

Oh yeah, stunt coordinator for sure
, and moving into that role inthose kinds of films, absolutely
.
I mean, if there is going to bean evolution, I'm glad it's
going in that direction.
You know what I mean.
Like someone that has the eyeand has the sensibilities of a
director.
I don't think every stuntcoordinator does, to be honest,
um right.
However, chad's a really goodexample of someone that sees it,

(01:07:31):
he gets it, you know, he getsthe visual, he gets the
storytelling very much so, andthere are many even within the
stunt community in New Yorkright now a lot of people that
are it kind of came in when Idid and who are my age.
There's a guy named JamesNewman, a stunt guy.
He went to film school and madefilm, so he already has this
sensibility of how to direct andhow to put stories together and

(01:07:54):
tell a story.
He's also a very accomplishedmartial artist, so he can tell
stories through that and now I'mreally happy to see that he's
doing that on a smaller scalefor now, but he's also
coordinated at least in someother things and to have that
storytelling capability.
And, yes, that they're puttingmore responsibilities in a good
way on stunt coordinators andfight coordinators to do that.
And it's funny because when Iwas in Japan I spoke with one of

(01:08:17):
the writer producers on that,about directing.
I said you know, I really Ireally mad that I didn't do more
directing.
And they were like, well, whydon't you direct?
I'm like I don't know, I'm tooold, I'm too young, I'm too like
that experience.
He's like you have just as muchexperience as most of the
directors that come in on thisshow, if not more, absolutely.
And I just was a little headscratcher.

(01:08:37):
And before the end of that,before I even left Tokyo, I was
like I'm going to do it, I'mgoing to, I'm going to direct
the movie and then get it, Justdo something.
And I thought I'll find a shortmovie and direct it, which
turned into I'm going to write afeature and direct and produce
it.

So that happened.
What was your feature?
What was your feature?

I had a co-writer with me.
My feature was called F Word.
It was not a stunty moviewhatsoever.
There was one stunt in themovie.
But I'm very much so like I lovebridesmaids.
I love those kind of movies.
I'm very much so into comedyand also into storytelling, and
I had a friend at the time thathe was a straight dude that did

(01:09:22):
like rocky horror and he woulddress up for fun and people
would be like, oh, you're gay,this.
I'm like it's so funny how,just looking at someone, they'd
call him the f word andthroughout just talking about it
with him.
I'm like it's so funny how,just looking at someone, they'd
call him the f-word andthroughout just talking about it
with him.
I'm like do you want to writethis movie with me?
Because I can't seem.
Or I was supposed to be a shortand we started brainstorming.
I'm like this is too much to bea short, ended up turning into

(01:09:43):
a feature.
I didn't go to school forscreenwriting whatsoever.
So of course I like went tomaster class and did Aaron
Sorkin's screenwriting class.
I got Save the Cat, I got allthe books that you're supposed
to get to screenwrite.
So one summer I just like readeverything about screenwriting
did practice runs with likelittle stories and as I went

(01:10:03):
through it, the same guy thatwas like you can direct, he was
a writer and he was like I willscript, doctor, your script,
which is, for those of you whodon't know, people get hired to
specifically do that to look atscripts and make sure that it
makes sense to say that yourpoints in your story happen when
they're supposed to happen.
You have your villain, you haveyour antagonist, you have all

(01:10:25):
the people that you need to have.
Make sure it happens on thepages, that it should happen on
just whatever.
And he did that for me andvoila, I'm saying it like it was
easy.
It was one of the mostdifficult things, one of the
most difficult things I've everdone in my life and one of the
most rewarding things and one ofthe.
The thing that made me realizeit was a passion beyond compare,
because I would go days withoutsleeping and have boundless

(01:10:48):
energy, like storytelling in itspure form and having that
creative freedom.

Where could people find this?

It is currently in my computer
because I have to pay for somerights before I can.

Got it, get it out.
We want to see.
We got to come over.
You got to come over.
It will.
It will be.

We are definitely planning on
distributing it?
For sure it's, it's in theworks, for actually, because of
one of the songs, I'm actuallygoing to be recording my own
voice singing this song and thenpaying for the rights for it
for that, and you'll see what itis if you check it out when it
comes out.
But it will, it will come out.
So I will say F word writtenand directed by Heidi Doreen

(01:11:30):
Schnapp.

Very cool.
You're so built for this.
We could just see in thisconversation you light up when
you talk about your work.
I just have to ask you one morebefore we get to some advice
what's something and you've toldus so much, you've shared so
much already, but what'ssomething that we would be
surprised to know about being astunt woman?
Just your life in general, likewhat your day-to-day is like
and those types of things, orjust something that your inner

(01:11:55):
circle knows and the rest of theworld does not?

Well, wouldn't that defeat the
purpose of us knowing, and younot?
We're trying to get that out ofyou.

Maybe there's nothing, Maybe the answer is it
is what it is.

Well, here's the thing.
There's a famous quote of FredAstaire, and what's her face?

Ginger Rogers.

Ginger.

Heidi Germaine Schnappau (01:12:14):
Rogers .
I had Rogers in my head.
I'm like Judy, where she's likewe do everything men do, but we
do it backwards and in heels.
So that is being a stunt.
Woman is, and even to this dayI was going to say sometimes not
so much, but no, we doeverything the guys do, but in a
nightie and without pads.
There are dudes that have donelike naked stunts.

(01:12:36):
I'm not going to take that awayfrom them, but in general
women's wardrobe just happens tobe not as covering, much more
revealing.
You know, I've done many more,many, many very difficult,
hard-hitting stunts in verylittle clothing.
Um, just hits a little harder,literally larry, that was a

(01:13:01):
great question.

Well, we did get there.
So, heidi um, at the end of theshow we always like to ask our
guests to sort of lay out aroadmap for somebody coming up
behind them.
So if there is a younger personwho wants to break into the
business, become a stunt person,a stunt woman, what advice do

(01:13:23):
you have for them?

Heidi Germaine Schnappau (01:13:25):
Advice I would have for someone who
truly wants to be a stuntperformer is to be specific, to
commit to it and to find who youlook up to, Find the genre,
find the things that you like,find the people that do what you
want to do.
If you want to get into stunts,in general, I would definitely

(01:13:48):
say to find somewhere to learnsome martial arts, whether or
not you want to be a fighter,Because, again, like I was
saying that you're going to fall, you want to know how to fall
right.
Be humble, and I think this iskind of like general life stuff.
The same goes for stunts as itwould for anything else.
Always ask people's names,write them down.
You know these simple littlethings, like if you truly want

(01:14:11):
to do it.
Also, my number one thing Itell any young person whether I
want to be a stunt person or not, have your dreams and follow
them and don't be afraid to letthem change something.
And, like you see people doingfighting, you're like well, I'll
never do that.
No you're allowed to change yourmind.
What I would advise against ischanging it too quickly and to

(01:14:36):
give up on something, butallowing that to shift.
You find something new in thething that you're doing.
Follow it, don't be afraid.
Don't be afraid to allow yourdreams to change.

How much of it is .
Don't be a can't.
If you think you can or youthink you can't, you're right,
right, that's right, that's whatI've always said.

Somebody says I can't do that.
I agree.
You've already made up yourmind.

That's great.

Well, heidi, this has been incredible.
Thank you for all of this time.
And, before we say our finalgoodbye, if people want to learn
more about you, what are youworking on?
Where can they find you?
Is there a website that peoplecan go to?
How do people learn more aboutHeidi?

Ah, yeah, well, I have.
If you want to know about thedirecting direction I'm going in
, I'm on Instagram, atTheOtherHeidi.
If you want to check out someof my stunt stuff.
I'm at StuntGirlHeidi onInstagram as well, and I have a
website, theotherheidycom.

Which I have been to and I found it very, very
interesting.

I got to repair some links on there,
but at least you know it's agood jumping.
Well, I found it very helpful.

Yeah, so Heidi Schnappauf, did I say it
correctly?
Yeah, mm-hmm, excellent, thankyou so much for joining us.

Thank you for having me, this was fun
.

So that was Heidi Germaine Schnappauf.
Just an incredible conversationabout being I mean literally a
fearless self-starter.
Larry Shea, what are yourtakeaways?

Yeah, I mean, she's so courageous.
I mean, just that's what I takeaway is she's brave, you know,
she's truly brave and passionateabout what she does.
We talk about it all the timethat some people are just built
for what they become in thisworld.
And between the martial artsand the acting out the fight
scenes when she was a kid andthe athletics and all of it, you

(01:16:26):
could just feel like that waswhat was going to make her happy
and she was going to find itthrough hell or high water and
it was really cool to see.
And there's a couple of pivotalmoments in her life, right when
she sees the behind the scenesTomb Raider, she's like, ooh,
what's that job?
I could do that, you know.
I just love the fact that shesent like 500 letters to people.

(01:16:46):
You can use this in anyprofession find the people that
you admire or want to become andcontact them.
Get to know who they are, whatthey look like, what their names
are, because if they're sittingon a bus next to you, you can
have that conversation with them, but you don't know it unless
you know who these people are.
So so smart of her to do thatand great advice, you know

(01:17:10):
obviously be good to work with.
We talk about that all the time.
Right, but be specific, committo it and find the people that
do the stuff that you want to do.
I loved her approach and Iloved how she built a world for
herself.
That is truly remarkable.
She's an incredible person.
That is truly remarkable.
She's an incredible person.

One big thing I took away from this is you know,
there's a line from a DirtyHarry movie with Clint Eastwood,
which is a man's got to knowhis limitations, and it applies
in this case because she wasvery much looking for her niche
in the world of movies and we'vespoken to other people before
in this kind of world Some areproducers, some are directors

(01:17:50):
and that in that sense.
But we rarely get this glimpse,this portion of this kind of
world television and movieswhere you're in front of the
camera but not the quote-unquotestar.
You're doing somethingdifferent.
And she learned early on in hercareer that she didn't think
she had the makeup to be the bigstar, like she didn't have the
makeup to be angelina jolie, butshe had the makeup to be the
person who kind of subs in forAngelina Jolie and is still in

(01:18:14):
front of the camera.
So in many cases she kind ofunderstood what her role would
be.
In the world of making movieswas more than content to follow
that dream, and follow thatdream very gung ho, making sure
she builds out this world ofpeople who do the same job that
she does, getting advice fromthem.
That's what we all kind of actand we try to put that forward

(01:18:35):
in so many of the people that wespeak with, that it's not
simply going forward and pushingforward with a dream.
Sometimes you want to try andget a bigger picture, a more
realistic picture of what thejob actually is, what it entails
.
So to do that you have to askpeople who are actually doing it
and once you get that base ofpeople who kind of are in that

(01:18:56):
world with you and give you andcan give you advice, it better
informs your choices moving downthe line.

Absolutely.
You know, and, building uponall of that, we were joking that
she was wearing this t-shirtduring the interview that said
don't be a can't and I'm givingserious consideration to titling
the episode don't be a can't.
So it might already be that way, we'll see, but that was this
overarching theme of everythingwe discussed and I found it so

(01:19:25):
interesting and I think thiscame up when we were talking
before and after the interviewabout she wanted to start a
podcast.
She learned how to do that.
She wanted to write ascreenplay, so she took a course
to do that.
She wanted to be better atmartial arts, so she did that.
Like, throughout her life,throughout her journey, she has
been continuously learning,which is one of the most

(01:19:49):
important things for anybody outthere to learn Always be
curious, keep learning, which isone of the most important
things for anybody out there tolearn.
Always be curious, keeplearning, keep growing, keep
evolving.
And you know, one of the keythings she talked about with her
advice was don't be afraid tochange your dreams, and I just
thought that was so interesting.
It's like you have to see themthrough, make sure that you give
them an honest chance and tosee things develop, but don't be

(01:20:12):
afraid to pivot as you start toopen your mind to what some of
the different possibilities inlife can be.

Yeah, pete Dominick said the same thing to
us, right?
I think he was like you knowwhat?
There is no shame in changingthe direction of your goal,
right?
No one says that when you'refive years old and you say I
want to be a fireman or want tobe a tree, then at 35, if you're
not a tree, you screwed up.
No, that's not the case, right?
No, it's not the case.

(01:20:40):
You can always be somethingelse and there's no shame in
that, especially if it's likethe overarching goal is okay, I
want to be in the movies, butI'm not going to be Angelina
Jolie.
So how do I be in the movieswithout being Angelina Jolie?
So that's really just shapingthe goal to the surroundings
that you're in.
I think it's great advice,totally great advice.

I agree wholeheartedly, and I'm telling
you, if you're going to stealone thing from this interview
and use it for whatever yourdreams might be, it's her
resourcefulness.
She wasn't afraid to putherself out there and find
people who had the answers tothe questions that she had.
So, whatever your profession is, do that, because look what it

(01:21:22):
did for her.

That's exactly right, and she's still going.
She talked about a writingproject.
We know that she was an actorand she acted.
And we talked about HarryGreenberger off the top,
somebody was on one of ourprevious episodes.
She was in one of his movies asan actor.
So just keep going, keepevolving, keep growing and
follow your dreams.
Heidi.

(01:21:43):
Germain Schnappoff is a perfectexample of doing exactly that.
Heidi, thank you so much forjoining this episode of no Wrong
Choices.
Thanks again for joining us.
If this episode made you thinkof somebody who could be a great
guest, we'd love to hear fromyou.
Please reach out to us throughthe contact page of our website
at norongchoicescom.

(01:22:05):
While you're there, check outthe blog for a deeper look at
our takeaways from each episode.
You can also connect with us onsocial media.
We're on LinkedIn, instagram,facebook, youtube and X.
On behalf of Larry Shea, tusharSaxena and me, larry Samuels.
Thank you again for listening.
We'll be back next week withanother inspiring conversation.

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Heidi Germaine Schnappauf: From NYU Actor to Hollywood Stuntwoman

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