Joy Atkinson: Breaking Barriers as a Beauty Industry CEO

Episode Transcript
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Larry Samuels (00:03):
What makes a great leader and what does it
take to become a CEO in thebeauty business?
We'll seek out the answers tothose questions and beyond
during this episode of no WrongChoices.
Thank you so much for joiningus.
I'm Larry Samuels, soon to bejoined by Larry Shea.
Before we dig in today, we dohave one request Please be sure
to like and follow no WrongChoices on your favorite podcast

(00:24):
platform.
Your support enables us to keepbringing these great stories to
life.
Now let's get started.
This episode features thepresident and CEO of the
cosmetics company Presperse, JoyAtkinson.
Joy is a remarkable leader andgenuinely inspiring person who
has thrived within that industryfor decades.

(00:44):
Larry Shea is my partner incrime for this one.
Please lead us in.

Larry Shea (00:56):
Yeah, sometimes you know we're really lucky.
We get to talk to these amazingpeople and dig into things and
get access when you know otherpeople don't.
We get to talk to the CEO andshe's amazing.
She's a quote, a second.
She's going to give you amazinginsight on this episode.
I think there's more advicepacked into this episode than
maybe any other episode we'veever done does how she gets

(01:21):
there.
This is an amazing episode.
It's one of my favorites.
And Joy she just gave us a lotof her time and she really you
could hear the joy in her voice.
Joy has joy in her voice as shespeaks to this episode of no
Wrong Choices, so thank you.

Joy for the access.
We really appreciate itAbsolutely.
It was a chance to dig into atype of company and industry
that Larry and I literally knewnothing about beforehand.
We learned a ton.
It is so interesting and Joy isone of the most authentic and
inspiring people I've comeacross in our journey.
So, with no further ado, hereis Joy to tell us her story.
Now joining no Wrong Choices isJoy Atkinson.

(02:04):
Joy is the president and CEO ofthe beauty company Presperse,
an innovative firm that has theunique and hard-earned
distinction of being certifiedas a great place to work.
Joy, thank you so much forjoining us.

Joy Atkinson (02:18):
Thank you so much for having me, Larry.
It's great to see you.

I imagine you had a lot to do with the fact that
your company Is a great place towork.

Oh, wow, I appreciate that compliment, but
I actually have to say it's ouremployees.
They are the ones who get tovote on that actually, and I
promise no payment came from me,no bonuses in advance.
I didn't pay off anybody but,funny enough, that came as a
part of us joining the UN GlobalCouncil and wanting to really

(02:49):
achieve on some global metrics,actually to make our company a
really good company from asustainability and corporate
social responsibility standpoint.
And I didn't want to just, youknow, walk and not have the talk
or walk the talk.
I wanted to have the statisticsbehind us and under this, one
of the metrics is theopportunity to go out and test

(03:12):
your corporation as a greatplace to work.
So I was a little like whenthey suggested it.
I thought, should I really dothis?
Ok, well, you know, it's ametric and we can set a bar and
see how we do.
And I was really scared.
It's about 30 questionscompletely open-ended for

(03:33):
employees to answer, and I wasso excited the first.
I'd been in job for about ayear and then we did this, and
so the first time out we got ascore of 86 and, and there's so
five really key questions around, things like would you
recommend your friend to workhere?

Wow.

Yeah, would you, if you had the choice to leave
your job and go to another job,if maybe money wasn't so much a
factor, would you want to leave?
So really deep questions likethat.
And the first year, out of theemployees we got 86%, and then
this year we had 93%participation of all of our

(04:13):
employees and we got a score onthose five important questions
out of the 35 of 100%.

That's amazing.

Yeah, that puts us in the Fortune 100 of small to
medium companies and I wasthrilled.
But I have to give the creditto them.
They're the ones because I alsofeel like I work at a great
place, so I have to give thecredit to them.

Well, as somebody who worked at Dish Network for
a period of time where we rankedlast, I believe, year in and
year out, for employeesatisfaction, I greatly respect
and admire, and perhaps am alittle jealous of the
circumstances and environmentthat you have created.

Oh, thanks so much .

So Joy with that set the stage for us in terms of
what Presperse is, and I hopethat I'm saying the name
correctly.

You are saying it correctly.

And what you do there.

Yeah, so the name presperse is a chemical.
It's kind of derived from achemical word, which is
predispersion, which issomething that many chemists
bench chemists have to do.
When they're incorporating apowder base into a liquid, they
have to predispers that powderinto something and then put it
into the base that they might beworking with.

(05:25):
And the Blacks who started thiscompany over 50 years ago, they
were good friends with theLauders.
Yeah, that name is familiar.

They had an in.

Exactly.
Apparently, jeanette Black andEvelyn excuse me, estee Lauder
herself were friendly, and soEstee said hey, your husband's a
chemist and we could buy fromyou guys if you guys have some
cool chemistry.
And so that's how this wholething started in New Jersey, in
Somerset, new Jersey, many, manyyears ago, and I joined the

(05:58):
company four years ago aspresident and CEO.
So I am I mean, I'm thrilled.
I always wanted, had in mysights for my career, to be a
president and a CEO and now Ifinally have that job.
And I have to say I admire allthe past president and CEOs who
I was highly critical of.

(06:22):
So now I'm like, know what goesaround comes around yeah, so
this is the other larry joy.

Larry Shea (06:28):
So nice to meet you.
Um, you know, I never thoughtabout the the actual substances
that make up beauty products.
It's, it's a fascinating field.
I mean, I don't even know whatwe're talking about.
Is it oils, plants, powders,like?
Is it expensive?
Is it rare, like?
I think a good place to hitthis is right now, while we're
on this, so tell us a little bitabout what these actual things

(06:53):
are.

Sure.
And so to your question is itall of those things it actually
is?
So, at Presperse we have over450 different raw materials and
if you look on the back ofanything your mints, care
products, products that youmight be using shampoos, hair
conditioners you'll see thoselist of all those materials and
what's called inky terms, whichis basically is an ingredient

(07:17):
nomenclature.
So those are words that,depending doesn't matter who
manufactures them, those termsall have to be the same, and
then there might be some itemson there that are specific to
those particular brands, andtypically those are all spelled
out.
Sometimes they're reallycomplicated, but the reality is
we're all chemicals, even us,and so, even though that word

(07:40):
chemical or chemistry is scarysometimes, once you start
understanding even what humansare made of, it's kind of all
understandable.
So we supply materials that arein the back of those packages
and mainly we focus on cosmetics.
So we do personal care, whichmeans things from, say, your

(08:02):
neck down, but we do a lot ofbeauty, so a lot of color, a lip
, we do really wonderful activematerials that hopefully keep us
younger, and so we work on allkinds of things.
But we also do sun care, bodylotions, facial lotions and
we're in hair care now, butwe're always staying on top, top

(08:24):
of the materials, in theforefront of the materials
because they do get regulatedout.
Some of them and some ofsometimes consumers just like
think sulfates.
You've heard of sulfate freeshampoo.
Nothing really necessarilywrong with sulfates, but
consumers who may be like me.
I don't want to do the wholewicked hair toss, but there you

(08:46):
go.

At least you can as I rub my shiny head.

Larry Shea (08:51):
He's follicly challenged.

I was working on that with my daughter.
She's 21 and she was likelaughing at me, really, mom.
Anyway, so sulfates might dullour colored hair, so you might
want to use sulfate-free hair.
But anyway that's just anexample.
So that's what we supply.
We supply those raw materials,but there are a few competitors

(09:14):
in our industry, but we haveexclusive materials.
Many of our materials come fromoverseas.
They might come from Japan youhear of J-Beauty or Korea you
hear of K-beauty, or Korea, youhear of K-beauty.
Some of them come from Europe,from France, from all over the
world.
But we go out and seek forthose really wonderful,

(09:35):
beautiful, exclusive materialsthat can go into skincare
products and color products.

Super cool.
That's fascinating and aquestion that neither of us have
ever asked before, so thank youfor that.
Now let's make this about you.
So, joy, we want to dig intoyour journey and how you got to
the point where you are nowrunning this amazing company.
So take us back to thebeginning.
Who was Joy when she wasyounger?

(10:03):
Were you organizing the kids onthe playground, like?
Who were you when you were akid?
And just tell us a little bitabout yourself.

So first off, I have to shout out to my folks I
have incredible parents.
My dad was an executive withthe railroad and my mother was a
ballerina in New York City.
Oh, wow, yeah, how about that?
So I come from a very numbersand disciplined background
completely.
So you merge numbers, you mergediscipline together and voila.

And creativity too.

Yeah, yeah, creativity Exactly, I have to
say.
And my daughter's a ballerina,but it did skip a generation.
But there's a funny story tiedto that.
So my mom, she did try tocoerce me and force me to become
a ballerina.
So from a very early age I wastaken off to her ballet classes

(10:54):
and she was teaching us notreally ballet, but in first
grade I think.
She told me the story.
She was teaching us how to dothe hula.
She told me the story.
She was teaching us how to dothe hula and then all of a
sudden half the class wasmissing and my mom was like
where'd everybody go?
And she has to teach her.
And apparently I was teachingmy own hula class in girls'
bathrooms, oh geez.

So I think leadership skills maybe came out
there and my mother obviouslygot very upset with me because
clearly, I had no idea what Iwas doing.

Larry Shea (11:27):
That is very funny.
It wasn't going to be aballerina.
What was the dream?
What did you want to be whenyou were?
Did you have a dream when youwere that age?
Some people don't.

So when I was really young, my uncle was an
attorney and I was just.
I thought he was the coolestguy because I would listen to
those conversations at thedinner table when they think
you're not listening and I waslike, wow, that is so
fascinating, I think I want todo that.
As I got older, I kind ofstarted changing my mind and at
16, I worked in a bank as aproof operator, if you can

(11:55):
believe this.
So I really wanted toredecorate my bedroom.
So I got a job where I couldmake some money and proof
operators we, back in thedinosaur era, we put those
little magnetic ink numbers atthe bottom of checks, those
things that people used to write.
Crazy, but I made great moneyat the bank.
So then of course, I wanted tobe Jamie Diamond.
Although I didn't know whoJamie Diamond was, I said I

(12:18):
wanted to do that.
I wanted to be the big boss ofbanks.
I graduated from Georgia StateUniversity with a degree in
business and with the goal ofthinking.
I worked all through college atthe bank and wanted to do that.
Unfortunately and this doesshow my age a little bit but
when I graduated and I went backto that bank and I said, hey,

(12:40):
I'm here, I have my degree, I'mready to go management training
program.
And I said I want to be incorporate lending.
And they were like, nope, we'reputting you in the branches.
And when I couldn't get them, Iwas like why?
And he said because we don'thave women in those jobs.
Oh, wow, wow.

Can you?

imagine.
But here's me.
I go now and I'm from the South, accent a little bit.
But I said now, if you don'tgive me the job that I want, I'm
going to get right up out ofthis chair and take my talents
elsewhere.
You know what he?
Said Good for you no, he saidyou do what you got to do.

Larry Shea (13:12):
Wow.

So off I went, panic stricken that I had to go
home and face my folks and sayhad a job offer and I walked out
.
And so I went and got a job ina department store at Christmas
time and I could not believethat people were getting paid to
have that much fun.
So that began my journey intocosmetics and fragrances and

(13:36):
department stores andunderstanding consumers, and
that's how it all started.

I need to dig into that for a second.
Yeah, sure, the guy who saidthat to you.
What did that plant inside ofyou and how did that direct you
going forward?

Well, I did grow up with a brother who was a
little bit older, who got to doeverything, and I, because I was
a girl in a very conservativeSouthern family, was told, like
you know, you need to be in at10 o'clock, yeah.
So I think funny enough havingan older brother who kind of had
free reign and he's wonderful,love him, he's great and we're

(14:16):
still very close.
But I think I was a little bitlike that's just not fair, and
so I think I was always kind oflooking at what was fair and a
little bit righteous, probablyfor a youngster, and saying
that's not right, that's notfair, I should be allowed to do

(14:37):
anything that a guy can do.
So I think that's might beenwhere the seed was planted.
And when he told me I couldn'tdo that, of course that just
made me like, oh yeah, watch.
This Took me a while, but I willsay funny story, not to go back
.
But my university, georgiaState University, honored me,
which I was so surprised andthankful, but as one of their

(14:59):
outstanding graduates, and Iwent back to meet the dean of
the business school and it wasin the same building in Atlanta,
georgia, where that guy told meWow, what a poetic moment,
that's amazing.
I was shocked.
I was like are you kidding me?
Georgia State had bought thatbank building.

Larry Shea (15:18):
Yeah, that's amazing .
I'm hearing so many things thatI because I want to define this
about your childhood.
It sounds like your family wassuper supportive, um, and it
sounds like you wereself-motivated in a lot of ways,
but that they also kind ofpushed you to achieve in a lot
of regards.
Is that, is that accurate aboutyour childhood?

It sure is, and I think a lot of that has to come
from, uh, probably my mom.
Um, she grew up in, up inVirginia, in Portsmouth,
virginia, a small town outsideof Virginia Beach really, and to
achieve the heights of dancingin New York City at the School
of American Ballet, at the timeof Balanchine, you know, and she
took lessons from Balanchine aspart of the School of American

(16:01):
Ballet.
She just really planted in meyou can do anything that you can
really me.
You can do anything that youcan really put, you can dream it
, you can achieve it.
You know that poster we all seeso much.
I think the biggest, funniestthing, though, the joke was, you
know, I think my mom and dadboth hoped that I would be this
aspiring little ballerina, but Ibut you know, god gave him a

(16:22):
gift or a joke.
I'd say and say like no, butwe're going to put your dad's
mathematical brain in that, andI wanted nothing to do with
ballet.
I was like this is the mostboring.
I mean I really I got, I haveto say.
My mother finally ultimatelykicked me out of ballet class
for making fun of her when shewas like doing some of her

(16:45):
ballet routines.

Larry Shea (16:46):
Oh really it's.
That is so funny.
It's super ironic that you knowpeople who are, you know, want
to be an artist or dancer orsinger.
Like the parents, like no,you're going to be in the
business world and you areexactly the opposite.
That is astounding.

Yeah, it was funny .
I mean we did love music.
We still love to dance.
We do something now called theShag.
We're in South Carolina, notthat Shag, it's a fun kind of
swing dance, but we still lovedoing all that together.
Yeah.

Larry Shea (17:20):
And my folks.

I've got a blessing.
There's still a lot.
My dad's 91.
My mom's 88.
And they're still swinging andhaving a great time.

Larry Shea (17:27):
That's incredible.
We didn't talk about thisaspect of it, but it sounds like
you were a good student, likeyou liked school, you liked to
achieve and you were a goodstudent.

I'd say I was an above average student.
I was probably stubborn, thethings that I didn't want to
learn I didn't really focus on,and and I remember taking a
class even in university and oneof my professors asked me to
stay after class and she told mehow disappointed she was in my
performance.

(17:55):
And I remember, like looking ather, thinking, and finally I
told her I said you know what II'm really, I'm in an overload
situation.
I'm working probably too manyhours right now because the
holidays and I made a consciousdecision to take a B in this
class and she was not happyabout that.

She really got mad at me.

But I think that I was one of those.
I think, yeah, the classes Iloved.
I did surprisingly well incalculus and I don't know how
bad happened.

Larry Shea (18:25):
Yeah, how does that happen for anyone?

I don't know.
I think I had a great teacher,quite frankly, but yeah, so I'd
say I was okay.
I wasn't a straight A.
I mean I would have never beena professorial candidate, for
example.
Yeah, and my daughter now Ilook at her and she's Phi Beta
Kappa at USC and I mean I'm goodfor her.
Go girl.

But also a ballerina.
Skip the generation.

It is.

So let's move forward to Georgia State.
You're coming out of school.
What was your vision as youstepped off of campus into the
real world?
Where did you see yourselfgoing 20 years down the road?

I really loved leadership and so I really and I
did have this really I wouldsay drive to be the best.
And again, I think maybe thathas a lot to do with my mom, her
influence, because ballerinasare incredibly disciplined and
they're always striving forsomething they probably will

(19:33):
never achieve.
And I always would look atpeople around me and say, gee,
who is the best at this job,whatever job it might have been,
and then I would try tounderstand how they got there
and what could I possibly do toget there myself or to maybe
even improve it a little bit.

(19:53):
I made a lot of mistakes alongthe way, definitely had a lot of
bosses yell at me, but I sayyell at me because back then
they could, but then I had.
I remember, yeah, and I sayyell at me because back then
they could, but then I had.
I remember, yeah, one storemanager just screaming at me
about leaving a ballroom, whichwas his way of saying put a
T-bar in the middle of this openspace.

Oh geez, I had one boss throw a book at me, so
I think I'm from a similargeneration.

Yeah, right, but it was, yeah.
I think I just always wanted tosay, well, okay, so what does
the best look like here, and canI achieve that, and could I
maybe even do a little bitbetter, or how could I
creatively bring something in adynamic that will be unexpected?
Um, and I would get noticed,and I don't think it was my

(20:41):
intent.
I don't remember thinking tomyself, I just want to be
noticed.
I think it was just kind ofdrive for doing things, a drive
for excellence, quite frankly,doing things in really an
outstanding way.

Larry Shea (20:53):
Did you realize at that time that you were kind of
cultivating your leadershipstyle?
And what exactly would you sayyour leadership style is?

So I have to.
I'll confess.
When I was in high school, myclass voted me class president.

Larry Shea (21:09):
Leader.

I had a lot yeah, a lot of leadership lessons
where I totally screwed up andthought to myself, well, that's
not really good.
And I had some really goodclose friends who would tell me
that you know, that wasn't acool thing to do.
And I had some teachers whowere really wonderful and would
encourage me.
And I think that's where Istarted understanding that

(21:31):
collaboration with others andalso achieving it.
I think I really learned itwasn't about me as a leader, it
was about other people reallybringing their best, and
together we created somethingwhere we could collectively
bring our best, and so it wasabout inspiring others to bring
their best.

(21:51):
And then, when I went into thatdepartment store environment
when I was really young and Ihad a group of 15, 20 people
working for me, here I was, Iwas a kid.
I was 23, 24 years old and thepeople who worked in that
department store environmentvery diverse in their age most
of them were two and three timesolder than I was and I had to

(22:14):
lead them, I had to bring thebest out of them and it
certainly wasn't going to befrom demanding anyone respect to
me.
I really had to earn thatrespect and I think I realized
that and continued to bring thatthroughout my entire career.
And also I just I have to say Ilove to have fun.
I love to have fun at work.
So I like to see people and Ilike to be around happy people

(22:38):
who are enjoying themselves.
So I try to create thatenvironment of fun.
And you know, and every problemcan be solved and we can bring
it together and you know, we'll,just, we'll get it done somehow
, not to say that there aren'ttimes when I'm, you know, I'm
like, gee, this mountain is hardto climb, how are we going to
get this done?
And now I have to check myselfright in this leadership

(23:00):
position that I'm in, I reallyhave to watch my you know how
happy.
I have to be happy, I have tobe positive, but also have to be
authentic, and when there'sproblems, I have to bring it out
like hey guys, you know we'refacing a storm now, but we're
going to get through the stormtogether.

So that's great.
So when we look at your journeyyou're leading people at the
department store it feels likethat might have been your first
formal management role, so tospeak.
How did your career develop soyou learned from that experience
?
Eventually, you started to getyour eye on the beauty industry

(23:37):
because you spent a lot of timein it.
Talk to us a little bit aboutthe progression from the
department store forward.

Sure, okay, and you'll laugh, but I was a buyer
of men's fragrances and cosmeticaccessories for a division of
federated department stores, soI was buying for 35 stores and
like 80 different brands.
Each brand had, you know, 10SKUs and there was no exception,
and how old were you?

I'm sorry to interrupt.
How old were you at this time?

I was probably 26, 26 years old.

Wow, that's a big job for a 26 years old, that's
a big job for a 26-year-old.

I know and I remember the guys I say that the
vice presidents from New YorkCity would come down and I mean
I was just this little Southernkid and my bosses who were from
iMagnons and from Bloomingdale'sand Saks Fifth Avenue.
They are running riches.
I would be.
At first I was really afraidLike, oh my gosh, these guys are

(24:34):
going to be negotiating with me.
What am I going to do?
And what they told me Joy, juststick to your numbers.
You have all your spreadsheets,you know what you're doing.
If you feel intimidated, lookdown at your numbers.
Stick to your numbers.
Can I tell you I still do thattoday.
Wow, I will look down when Iget in front of a board and I'm
like, okay, you know what you'redoing, stick to your numbers.

(24:55):
It still works.
But I wasn't getting paid muchmoney and I always saw the
person on the other side of thedesk.
They were driving a nicer car,probably paying their bills on
time, and they were always muchbetter dressed and that kind of
made me question what am I doinghere?
And I got an opportunity toactually interview for a job and

(25:23):
one of the young women who wassitting on the other side of the
desk for me.
She's the one who encouraged me.
She said you know what?
You should apply for this job.
You'll be my boss, but that'sokay.
And I was like they're nevergoing to give me that job.
So what I did is I put togethera portfolio of how I would
approach the job if I were givenit, and it was a complete
strategic portfolio because Iknew the job from the other side

(25:46):
.

Yeah.

And so when I sat down for the interview I had a
complete strategic book done forthe guy who was interviewing me
and of course he said at theend of like wow, because I had
basically did a strategic planfor 35 stores in his, in his
group, he said can I keep this?
And I was like no, only if youhire me.
And then he said well, how muchis that going to cost me?

(26:07):
And I was like, oh, and I thinknumber.

And he goes John, and I threw out the number and
he goes done and I was like, oh,I didn't have you, so you
didn't have the marketintelligence going into the room
.

Yeah, it did turn out to be a great job.
And then what happened was,from that point on, the bosses
the people who I worked forcould see the quality of my work
and then they became really, Iwould say, mentors to me and
also sponsors.
So I love to tell people thedifference between that.
A mentor is someone who reallyhas nothing invested in your

(26:46):
success other than wanting tosee you succeed just because
they believe in you, they seeyour potential and they're in
there coaching you.
And then a sponsor is someonewho actually is going to benefit
from your success.
And so I, along the way, hadthese sponsors, mentors but I
would say every job I got afterthat was probably a sponsor,

(27:07):
somebody who said you know what?
I want that person to be cominginto my group because I think
that person has potential andcan add value and is going to
make me, the boss, look good.
And another thing I think Ilearned early on from one of my
other bosses really was the moreI helped her look great in my

(27:28):
role, the better she did, and Idid well in doing that.
So I encourage young peoplethat I mentor for directly like
think about the person thatyou're working for directly, and
what obstacles do they need toovercome and how can you help
them?
How can you make their loadlighter?

(27:48):
What can you do to help themlook great?
Because when you look great, ifthese are really good people I
mean there are some selfishpeople in the world, we have to
be careful of them but ifthey're really great people,
they're going to appreciate thatfrom you and they're going to
bring you along with them orthey're going to sponsor you for
maybe the next job when yourname comes up.

Larry Shea (28:07):
I love that the distinction between mentors and
sponsors you just literallydefined.
Preparation plus opportunityequals success.
I mean I love that you justspelled that whole thing out for
us.
Would you say that that firstjob, where you prepared, you
know the door cracks open.
You got to be ready to runthrough it right, and so it did

(28:29):
for you in that moment.

Would you say that's your biggest break?
And so it did for you.
In that moment.
Would you say that's yourbiggest break.
That first gig right there,like jumping, was in the
Southeast part of the UnitedStates.
You know, here I am working inRich's department store, which
is now Mace, but it gave meexposure, yes, in an
international company.
So in fact, what happened wasJapanese ended up buying.

(29:07):
Japanese conglomerate ended upbuying that company because they
wanted to expand here in theUnited States and the Japanese
leader of the company thatacquired them.
He met me and started askingquestions about my background
and he was looking for someonewho had an understanding of
retail and product developmentand how products worked in the

(29:30):
cosmetic and personal careindustry.
I probably was not qualified atall, but from that job that I
had, I then was offered a job todo Japanese product development
and bring those products fromJapan into the United States.
Now, funny story about that Iactually, when I was offered
that job, I turned it downbecause I was like are they

(29:51):
crazy?
I don't know anything.
First of all, I turned it downbecause I was like are they
crazy, I don't know anything.
First of all, I don't knowanything about Japanese products
.
I would not call myself amarketer, so clearly they must
have misunderstood.
But actually told my boss no,and my boss was so funny at the
time he told me he goes.
Joy, you don't understand.
The chairman of the company hasoffered you a job and it is a

(30:18):
promotion.
You don't have a choice.

I was like oh good, and as my father taught me
a long time ago never talk pastthe close, Stop talking and
move on.

Yeah, I think I learned that lesson late in life
.

What did you learn from that experience?
Working for a Japanese company?
I have my MBA, so I'm going tospit out a couple of terms.
With Lean, six Sigma andefficiency and everything else,
I imagine working for Kaizenexactly working for that type of
a company must have given youall kinds of new tools that you
use going forward.

Yes, incredibly, it was understanding how the
world works differently, youknow.
So that is the company thatsaid to me you need to have a
passport.
I was like, oh okay, becauseyou're going to be going back

(31:19):
and forth from Japan, from Tokyo, to the United States, bringing
back Japanese products,interpreting them for the US
market and, interestingly enough, they these were bath products,
bath additives and thenbringing them back to the United
States.
Big problem in the UnitedStates Back then in the 90s, we
didn't take baths, that's right,we took showers, so it's like
all right now, what do I do?

(31:39):
So the people who were soaking,which was the methodology used
in Japan?
Of course, the onsen, the hotmineral springs, bring those
back into the United States, andwhere we soak is in a jacuzzi,
a hot tub.

Right.

So that's where we brought the product into the
pool and spa industry.
And again, let's go back to thefact that I like to have fun.
And where were those meetings?
All the trade shows for thepool and spa industry are in
Vegas.

Oh boy.

Vegas hot tub.
And so what did I do forpromotion?
I went and hired showgirls andhad them dress in string bikinis
and lay around the hot tub.

I sold a lot of products.
I was thinking you might.

Cool as spa guys.

Larry Shea (32:21):
Yes, you did.
That's smart At that point, areyou?
You know what's the learningcurve there?
I mean because you're talkingabout an international yeah.
I mean, like, how did you getyour sea legs and, and you know,
deal with the travel and thecommunication and the business
aspect of it?
I mean, you are in charge.
How did you deal with that?

Yes.
So, first off, the culturaldifference.
And so one of the things Ithink that growing up in the
Southern part of the UnitedStates very conservative family
was the respect for people, youknow, just in general.
So I was very respectful, veryquiet, believe it or not, and
not, you know, speaking until Iwas spoken to, and it was also

(33:03):
the Japanese culture.
It was very respectful.
But what they called me Joy-san, and they still do, and I was
here, I was, you know, earlythirties and I would listen and
I actually I was in so manymeetings where they were
speaking Japanese and I actuallystarted picking up the Japanese
language and that was greatuntil I corrected someone who

(33:25):
said something not quite onpoint in one of the meetings.
They were speaking Japanese andthey realized they understood
what I was saying.
They were like, wow, so yeahnot so many.
I wasn't invited to so manymeetings after that, only the
part where there was English wasbeing spoken, but it what it
did is gave me an incredibleappreciation for international

(33:46):
business, for being forlistening skills, for
understanding culturaldifferences and really just
being respectful in general.
So I think in the South we'revery respectful of our elders
and then we share that with theJapanese culture, also very
respectful of the elders.
So that was, I would say,serendipitous for me and I just

(34:11):
had I had great sponsorship fromfrom those jobs, which then led
me into interviewing foranother job, an international
job, working for Furmanish,which is now DSM Furmanish, a
Swiss based company, andinterviewing with Patrick
Furmanish, who of course, wasvery interested in my

(34:31):
international business and whatI was doing.
And even though it wasn't wewere developing product, there
was adjacencies in fragrance andso I was able to move into the
fragrance development side ofthe business and working for
Furmanish, which has been alarge part of my career and
incredibly amazing, becausethere one of my main clients was

(34:54):
Avon and Avon at the time wasin 147 countries around the
world and my job was to makesure that Avon was happy with
Feminish around the world andthat the Feminish organization
understood how to service Avonat the time that was known as
the company for women.
So I really had an amazingcareer working with those two

(35:18):
companies in an internationaljob.

Larry Shea (35:20):
I love this, so let's dig into the.
Being a woman in a maledominated industry.
When you went to Japan and yougo to all these international
places, did you feel adifference in the way they
treated you compared to theUnited States, or was it kind of
, across the board, like menwill be men and I'm going to
have to fight for my place inthis world?

I would say definitely could see a
difference.
The good news is, I was alwaystreated with great respect
because I was probably I wasalways the first, believe it or
not, which was strange.
I was even the first sales ladyon Patrick Furmanish's team, um,
in that international sales jobon the fragrance, in the

(36:02):
fragrance industry, even thoughI was assigned to companies
where they were women led andwhen I had Avon in the beginning
they were not women led, uh, IAndrea Jung came in later, but
everyone was very, veryrespectful.
Did I see that my, maybeaspirations of leading an
organization were very far away?

(36:22):
Absolutely.
But I would say I was satisfiedin leading the organizations
and the groups that I wasresponsible for and again, like
I did when I was younger, it wasalways groups that I was
responsible for and again, likeI did when I was younger, it was
always who is the best at thisjob and how can I be?
Just, maybe even a little bitbetter, a little bit improved at

(36:45):
whoever is the best?
I even did that.
I did that everywhere Out ofreally just curiosity what does
the best look like?
And so I think that helped mequite a bit and it didn't become
such a gender issue.
Have I been told many timesbecause of my sex, that I wasn't
going to have an opportunity?
Or maybe did.
I feel that, yes, but I think Ihad that fight in me that said

(37:05):
well, you know, I'm just goingto prove that I'm deserving of
this job and I'm just going tokeep working hard and I'm going
to ignore that and I'm going tokeep plowing away, and it's not
been easy.
There's times, you know, andthere have been some people
along the route, who have saidto me you know, I don't believe
in you and I don't think you cando this and I don't understand

(37:26):
what all the hype is.
I don't think you're that great.
And does it hurt when you hearthat You're like oh, okay, and
and?
But I also had to say well, youknow, everybody gets to have an
opinion, that's right.

That's yours.
You know, while we're here, Ido want to ask this question.
So you know, as Larry and Iwere, we're doing our research
for this interview.
Neither of us realized that 90%of the executives within the
beauty industry are men.
We never would have thoughtthat in a million years.
What are some of the uniquechallenges that you do face as a

(38:02):
woman in that environment, andcan you give us an example of a
unique set of circumstances thatwe never could have thought of
being men, that you kind of hadto work through and push through
?

Well, the funniest thing I'll tell you that comes
to mind is, whenever I go to anexecutive board meeting or high
level board meeting, I neverhave to wait for the women's
restroom.

Okay, there's a win.

Like there's could be a line on the midstream,
like there's could be a line onthe midstream but um, um.
So I would say, probably for meI I'm this is sounds maybe, uh,
a little bit strange, but Ithink I'm used to this and I
think it's been more of asurprise on for the mint um, and

(38:50):
looking at saying, okay, why isshe here and what does she
bring or what does she have tooffer?
And I'm going to go back tothose sponsors again, those
people who know what I'mbringing and who give me the
opportunity to show my stuff, tolead, and so that usually is
what opens doors.
And the other thing is becauseI really do try to make sure

(39:13):
that I'm an expert in my, my job, in my industry, um, and my, my
knowledge, if it's forpresperse um, for or whatever it
is that I'm working on, um,when I have the opportunity to
show my stuff and to lead um,usually that's when I'll win
over both men and women.
They're like you know, sheknows what she's talking about,
she's an expert, she's beenthere and she's seen a lot of

(39:36):
different things and been in alot of different situations and
has succeeded.
So let me talk to her and seehow she can benefit me, and
that's usually how I win inwinning over people.

Larry Shea (39:49):
I love that.
Let's talk a little bit aboutthe timeline here and stay on
the career journey path a littlebit.
How long are you staying ineach of these positions before
you're moving on to anotherplace, Cause you obviously have
to soak it in and learn that joband then all of a sudden you're
going somewhere else.
What are those?
What are those stops like alongthe way?

(40:09):
How long are they?

Sure.
So it's funny.
I was talking to my own kidsabout this recently.
We talked about the seven yearitch and they were like what is
the seven year itch?
I was like, hey, look it up onChad GBT and see what it says.
But we've talked about, youknow, basically it either.
Every job that I've had, funnyenough, is somewhere between
five to seven years, maybe alittle bit over, I think.

(40:32):
My last position, I was therefor 10 years but quite frankly,
even at 10 years I wasdefinitely getting that
seven-year itch earlier goingokay, what's next?
What's next?
So I would say, the jobs thatI've stayed in Now, the
promotions have come along theway, obviously even when I've
been in a company.

(40:52):
So it could be the company isabout seven years and then I
would.
If another opportunity camealong, then I would, I would
move.
Now I know that that sevenyears today is unheard of.
People are moving companiesquickly and moving jobs quickly,
it seems, jobs quickly, itseems.

(41:17):
But I would say, especially asyou become more senior, it takes
at least a year to start kindof feeling like you have your
arms around a job, as I like tosay, and then you've got an
anniversary yourself, so that'sanother year.
And then you're like okay, Ihad my arms around it.
Now I've anniversary myself.
I've seen where my shortcomingsare, I can see how I can
improve.
And then you get on a roll andit's like that flywheel If you
read Good to Great a wonderfulbook, by the way that flywheel

(41:40):
starts to go and then it takeson its own momentum and you just
get to enjoy the ride if you'redoing it that way, and then
other opportunities seem to comealong between six and seven
years.
I've been in my job now forfour years as a CEO.
I still have a lot of thingsthat I want to do.
I'm very ambitious andsometimes my team tells me you

(42:01):
need to slow down.

If you have what it takes to become the CEO,
you're not going to slow down.
That's not part of the fabric.
So, when did you start to seeCEO or president on the horizon
and when did you start to pointyourself in that direction, and
what steps did you take to getthere?

Yeah, sure.
So back to in leading.
I was at that first job atFirmanish and I had been in that
job for about eight years,seven, eight years and I really
knew.
You know, I was at that firstjob at Firmanish and I had been
in that job for about eightyears, seven, eight years and I
really knew.
You know, I'm ready for thenext thing.
I've kind of done this and I'vemastered it to the point of
boredom, quite frankly, andthat's bad when you have an

(42:45):
executive who's like all right,this is a little boring, now I
need to do something else.
I was striving and asking forthe next job, but they really
loved me on that job and that'swhen I realized I got to move on
and I don't want to lead, butI'm going to have to go get
something else.
I went to the next position andit was to be in more of a
leadership, managing more people, and what happened was an

(43:08):
executive in that position sawmy talent and said you know what
?
We are going to select you aspresident of this North America
company and we're going to takethis company public.

Wow.

And you're going to be a part of the organization
that takes this company public.
Now we talked about impostersyndrome before I have to tell
you and I don't think I've toldanybody this but I turned that
job down, wow, because I didn'tbelieve enough in myself and I
wasn't convinced the person whowas offering me that job

(43:44):
believed in me enough.
And so I came back and I saidyou know what?
No, and I was stubborn, unlikeyour.
No wrong choices.
That was a wrong choice.

But you learned from it, right.

Well, the person thank goodness, the person in
the bigger job said to me notaccepting your.
No, I believe in this, Ibelieve in you and we're going
to make sure you can do this job.
And so, thank goodness, and Imean, for years I stayed in
touch with that, the guy who wasthe CEO and who took the

(44:24):
company public and we were in aprivate equity environment and
he believed in me and it wasjust so.
That was the first time I thinkI had somebody that high up
really see what I brought to thetable and as a leader.
And from then on, I think thebiggest aha was because I had to

(44:45):
do a turnaround in NorthAmerica and they gave me this
young McKenzie guy to work withme and I told him when he and I
were talking about thatturnaround that I had to do, I
said, yeah, I don't think I cando this.
And he looked me square in theteeth and he goes Joy, if you
don't do it, they'll findsomebody else who can, so might
as well be you.

Larry Shea (45:05):
I love the fact that people are recognizing what a
great job you're doing as well,and that's how you're kind of
maneuvering and getting thesepositions and so forth.
You know, we all have an imagein our brain of the personality
traits of what a CEO is orshould be, or whatever the case
may be.
Do you have certain personalitytraits that you think are

(45:27):
important for a CEO to cultivate, and what are those traits?

Yes.
So, first off, I want to beauthentic, I want to be
approachable, I want andsomething was told to me really,
really early in my career whenI was that young buyer and those
intimidating VPs were comingdown from New York City to
Atlanta and my boss told me shegoes, Joy, don't ever forget
they put their pants on the sameway you do.

Larry Shea (45:55):
That's right.

So I tell people all the time look, I put my
pants on the same way you do.
And I've been there, I'vestruggled, I've come out through
every job.
I've had people tell me to myface you're not worth anything,
but yet I've had those otherpeople that believe in me and I
have to say thanks, big shoutout to my folks Because even

(46:16):
when I was, you know, at thosetimes they were the ones who
always said you got this, yougot this.
And I'm mentoring a young womannow, sophia, and she's
wonderful.
I was privileged to be able totalk to her parents and I could
hear them say to her she's gotthis and she's a young student
at High Point University andjust amazing to see her and how

(46:38):
she shines as a young leader.
But having other people believein us and tell us that you've
got this and as a leader, Ithink that meant so much to me
and for my own team and thepeople that I work with.
Sometimes I can see thatthey're struggling and I'm the
one that comes along and saysyou know what?
I believe in you and you've gotthis, and if you have any

(47:00):
issues, if you have anyquestions, we're all here to
help.
You are an expert in whatyou're doing, but you are
surrounded by greatness and weare here to help you achieve and
be your best and bring yourbest every day, and they do it.
I mean, and also a bit of thegolden rule do unto others as
you want them to do unto you.
So, as old fashioned as that is, and maybe you know it's hard

(47:23):
nowadays, but I truly do try toremember treat others like I
want to be treated and rememberthe power of my words to be
treated and remember the powerof my words.
Sometimes, when I'm dealing withpeople and with my team, that's
probably the hardest part ofthis job is that I can't.
Sometimes I'm tired, sometimesI might be a little frustrated

(47:46):
and I have to remember to myselfyou can't show that, and I have
to remember to myself you can'tshow that.
You know that's my problem,that's not their problem, and I
think as leaders, that's what wehave to be so careful about is
inspiring others to get thegreatness from them as well, and
so that they can bring it.
And happiness in job is anotherthing.

(48:07):
If you love what you do, I feellike you'll never work a day in
your life.
You might need a break, but youwill bring it and when you get
that break you'll come back.
You'll be excited to get upevery day and excited to do what
you're doing.
And I mean, do we facemountains?
Absolutely, is every day fun?

(48:27):
No way.
But I keep coming back andsaying, okay, let's figure out
how we can have fun with this,or how we can do this slightly
different.
And I laugh too with my.
I call him my OS, my officespouse.
He's our CFO and he and I havebeen through some crazy battles

(48:48):
together and he's wonderful.
He's got a beautiful wife andfamily.
So that's why I joke he's my OS.
But we really get each otherthrough.
Sometimes it's not easy.
I report into a board ofdirectors they're all wonderful,
all men, and sometimes don'tnecessarily understand what my

(49:12):
vision is or where I want to go,and I'm relentless, probably,
and tiresome in that I keepbringing it back and bringing it
back and telling them again,because I also believe in the
power of seven.
You got to see, hear or seesomebody seven times before it
sinks in.
So my board.
I'm like I'm coming at youagain before it sinks in.

(49:33):
So my board.

I'm like I'm coming at you again.
You've alluded to part of thisanswer, but I'm curious what
your response to this will be.
So you have a glowingpersonality, you're a
cheerleader, you're up, you'reinspiring, you're all of those
things, but you're also human.
How do you manage the stress ofthe day-to-day of being a

(49:57):
president and a CEO?

So I advise this also.
I have hobbies that I love andI am an ambassador for the
Global Health and WellnessInstitute and I truly believe
that, in good health and takingcare of yourself, and I also
believe in strong mental healthand emotional health.

(50:22):
And that's hard, you know,sometimes, especially when we're
dealing with stressfulsituations.
Each one of us, I think, canfind a way to deal with stress
in a healthy way.
For me, the way I deal with itis to go for walks in nature and
listening to inspiring podcastslike yourself, all right.

(50:43):
How about that?
I mean honestly, that is it.
That walk in nature is just.
I think you know nature speaksto us.
It's something, it's spiritual,and it can just be healing and
seeing the sun or smelling thefresh air or the crisp air if
it's cold outside.
But just go outside for 45minutes, take a walk.

(51:05):
There are times even during theday, I might have a very, very
stressful, hard morning, and Iam famous for working through
the entire day, but I will puteverything down.
I will put on some earphones,maybe, and listen to some chill
music and go for a walk for 45minutes.

(51:26):
Turn off my phone, though, sothat the ringer because the
ringer and text message toneswill come through, but that, for
me, is how I manage to dealwith stress.
I also love a good Netflixseries.
You know, I have to say, don'twe all Netflix series?

Larry Shea (51:42):
you know, I have to say, don't we all?

To make me completely forget about you know
and just pick on something thathas nothing to do with my life,
it's somebody else's problem.

Larry Shea (51:53):
That's great advice, though I love I do the same
thing In the middle of the day.
A great walk can just clear themind and it resets your whole
perspective.
I imagine you do a lot ofnegotiating, presenting things
of that nature, which can because a lot of anxiety for a lot
of people.
How do you best prepare forthose things?
Do you use affirmations?

(52:14):
Do you see it in your mind'seye?
Is it just preparation?
You know, soothes the anxiety?
What's your approach to doingthese kinds of things?

So I am lucky in that I have had three different
high-level executive trainingsin negotiation.
So the number one tool ispreparation.
And also I'm going to say well,first off, prepare, prepare,
prepare and make a list of allof the things that are important
to you and then put yourself inthe other side, other party,

(52:44):
whoever you're negotiating with.
Make a list of all of thethings that are important to you
and then put yourself in yourother, the other side, other
tape, other party, whoeveryou're negotiating with.
Make a list of all the thingsthat you think that they are
going to want.
Find the common threads,because you'll have common
threads.
It could be like increasingsales.
You know less.
If we go to business, I want toincrease sales, they want to
increase sales.
Right, we're in negotiation.
So the first thing you do onceyou are in a negotiation

(53:07):
situation discuss those commonthreads and say, hey, we're here
for the same reasons.
You're here because you want toincrease sales, I'm here for
that reason.
Go through those things, andthen what happens is what you
have to negotiate becomes a verysmall list.
It's just what you want, maybe,and what you anticipate they
want.
Another thing that I think isimportant is the first question

(53:29):
to ask in a meeting always iswhat does a successful meeting
look like for you?
So once you get that at the endof this meeting, then you know
they basically told you whattheir points of negotiation will
probably be.
You know they basically toldyou what their points of
negotiation are probably be.
And then, of course, you know,be prepared, understand in
advance your topics, the thingsthat you're negotiating for, and

(53:51):
if you're negotiating forsalary or for something
personally for yourself, Ialways say think of yourself as
a brand.
So do the brand research,understand what you bring as
your brand as you, what talentsyou have, experience that you
have, your success in themarketplace.
And then do the research ondifferent salary websites on the

(54:16):
range of your salary.
So I would even look and say,if your brand, you believe
you're highly successful, greattrack record, you're going to be
above average.
So look at those salary rangesfrom the middle to above and be
prepared to negotiate.
And if somebody says, what doyou, which they have said to me
a lot there is no way we'regoing to pay you, that I'm like

(54:36):
well, I've done the research andblah, blah, blah, blah, blah
and I I believe that I'm aboveaverage, and I think so.
You might agree with that too,because we're sitting here
discussing my promotion.
So, based on my research, thisis what the pay range is.
I'm going to give you some timeto think about it and let's
come back and discuss it again.
Wow.

I love it.

Because a person doesn't want to sit on the other
side and be like oh, I've beencornered.

Larry Shea (55:03):
I love it.
I'm going to listen to thatlike 20 times Just so you know,
I just hope it works.
Total, repeat, repeat.
Um, what does a typical daylook like for you, or is there
no typical day?

Um, probably no typical day.
I travel a great deal for myjob.
Um, because at Priestverse,like I said, our materials come
from all over the world.
Our suppliers are extremelyimportant to us.
We have about a 21-step processbefore a material gets
introduced into our palette ofmaterials, so taking those
suppliers through those 21 stepsis a critical part.

(55:35):
I have incredible team memberswho help with that as well.
At my level.
It of course becomes a, I wouldsay, negotiation on really
people do business with peoplethey like.

Yep.

Here at Presperse, I have to go in and work with
suppliers and make sure thatthey like doing business with us
, and with me in particular, andthe same works, like our team

(56:10):
members, and luckily we getthese outstanding scores from
our manufacturing partners of100% based on have we delivered
on time and full, and so that'swhat's really, really terrific
about, I think, dealing withpeople, but at my job I travel a
whole lot and really high levelmeetings so that I can get the
best for pre-spurs.

Larry Shea (56:30):
So finish this sentence for me, because I know
people are listening to this andthey're like I want to be a CEO
.
So if I'm going to become a CEOsomeday, I should blank.

I should really love what I'm doing.
I should really love workingwith others and inspiring others
.
I should really be good atnegotiating.
I should be a continuouslearner.
I should understand how to takecare of myself, to be

(57:06):
physically, mentally,emotionally strong and help
others take care of themselves,including their families, which
is very important.
I should have some hobbiesoutside of my work.
I should enjoy travel and notmind it.
I should be really good at timemanagement.
I should like to have fun, workhard, play hard.

(57:33):
Yeah, I should also bone up onmy financial skill set, because
when you talk to the CFO, theyare way smarter.

That is great advice and I guess I'll follow
that up with.
If you are talking to I thinkyou mentioned your daughters.
If you're talking to a youngperson who's just getting
started, what would you tellthem?

Yeah.
So I have a son who's 25 and adaughter who's just turning 21.
And I do give them that adviceall the time Love what you do
and you'll never work a day inyour life.
Although I said you will needsome vacation, I still tell them
that all the time.
I tell them to understand thecore of who they are and then

(58:22):
find jobs or careers or goals intheir lives that align around
who they are.
And then find jobs or careersor goals in their lives that
align around who they are.
So don't put yourself.
If you're a square peg or around of whatever you know, make
sure you fit in to the job.
Don't try to do somethingthat's not aligned with values
and your skills and the thingsthat you love, because you just
won't be happy.

(58:43):
And so that's what I encouragethem and tell them.
But I also say to them you knowit's tough out there, right?
Yeah?
And because my kids I alwayssay you always have a place, you
always have a net, you have asafe place to come home to.
I don't want you living with me, not forever, but you always

(59:09):
have a safety net.
And I know that my children areprivileged and I'm very
privileged to be able to givethem that.
But and it's not always the wayyou know my parents kind of
said the same thing, but myparents were a little bit harder
about it, like we're here foryou but don't come home, oh geez
, which may be a little likeprobably a little fear.
So maybe I need to add a littlecouple of drops of fear.

Well, following that before we part ways and
this has been an incredibleconversation, unique.
So many different insights havecome out of this, so thank you
so much for this time, Presperse, I want to make sure that we
give you an opportunity to tellus about the company, what makes
it unique and what do you wantour audience to know?

So I first off, thank you so much.
There are so many things thatI'm proud of about Presperse,
that we've transformed thecompany over these past four
years, and the first andforemost is the fact that our
corporate social responsibilityplatform is the strongest in the
industry.
I mean, we modeled after whatwe thought were great leadership
companies.

(01:00:18):
We researched everything in theentire cosmetic field and we
benchmarked ourselves from thetop companies and then, like I
said earlier, we set that barreally high and then we said
what more can we do?
How can we be better, even inthe top?
So, first off, thank you forthe opportunity to talk about
Presperse and the incrediblework that we do in that

(01:00:39):
corporate social responsibilityplatform.
We are walking the talk everyday.
We make sure the products thatwe bring into the United States
are safe and that we sellnothing out into the industry
that hasn't been 100% researchedfor its purity, its safety, its
efficacy.
We take that the consumer useit really is top of mind and

(01:01:02):
making sure.
So thank you for theopportunity to say that.
And also, we created thisamazing business to business
site called let's Make Beauty,and it's an opportunity for
innovators and startups, peoplewho are dreaming of the cosmetic
industry to have access tosmall quantities of these raw
materials, in just the rightamount so that they can play in

(01:01:25):
their own little labs and maybeis in the kitchen, but at least
they can play and they can get.
They don't have to buy a palletor 170 kilo drum.
They can buy small quantitiesand and then, as these companies
start and they maybe find theirway and they get purchased by a
big organization, they don'thave to reformulate because
they're using the same materialsthat Chanel or L'Oreal or Estee

(01:01:47):
Lauder are using.
As a startup company, weprovide, through our let's Make
Beauty website, all of thedocumentation, the safety data
sheets, all of the things, theformulary suggestions, all of
the things that they might need.
And I just want to also bigshout out to Sumitomo, who are
our owners.
They are our sole shareholder.

(01:02:08):
They let us run the companyindependently, but they support
us and they allow us to investto create a company or a
division like let's Make Beauty.
So it just and all the 56employees we're not huge, but 56
employees at Presperse, butwe're one of the 900 companies

(01:02:29):
at Sumitomo and it's been funand wonderful and I am just so
proud of them and of the workthat we're doing together.

Larry Samuels (01:02:39):
It sounds amazing and, for those not seeing the
Zoom, I can see the smile onJoy's face as she's saying all
of this.
And it's real, it's genuine.
That was not a sales job, thatwas from the heart.
So, joy, thank you for the timetoday.
This has been such a wonderfulconversation, amazing.

Joy Atkinson (01:02:59):
My pleasure To the Larrys.
You guys are great.
Keep those podcasts coming sowhen I need to unplug from my
stress job I can go off and walkin nature and be listening to
you guys.

We promise yes, love that.

Yeah, that's wonderful Joy.

Thank you, this was great.
Thank you so much for this.

My pleasure, thank you.

So that was Joy Atkinson For me as a business
person.
I loved that conversation.
There were so many moments thattook me back to my journey
through corporate life and somany other inspiring moments
that I absolutely learned fromLarry.
Shea is more of a creative type.
Did you take away as much as Idid?

(01:03:42):
I did.

Larry Shea (01:03:44):
If you didn't take something away from that episode
, you weren't listening.
There's so much there One thingI did learn Joy puts her pants
on the same way you do.

That's right.

Great advice?
No, but you see what I mean nowwhen I say a quote, a minute
right, like the things that shegave us, the tools that she gave
us.
You know the power of sevenright?
People need to hear thingsseven times before it sinks in.
Remember the power of yourwords.
I mean.
That is a true leadershiplesson, right there.

(01:04:16):
Happiness is the job.
Do unto others as they would dounto you.
I could keep going on and onand on.
You heard it all from themaster herself.
Joy gave you the answers.
I mean.
She literally walks you throughhow to personally negotiate a
salary yeah, I mean.
And a deal and a deal.
I mean.
Those are tools that are just.
You know you can't make, youcan't get this stuff anywhere

(01:04:39):
else, right, and you're gettingit here on no wrong choices.
So it's just a pleasure to talkto her.
I loved what she had to sayabout taking a walk in the
middle of the day to clear yourhead.
I do that all the time.
And the thing that resonatedwith me the most, larry, is the
seven-year itch episode.

(01:05:05):
We were rolling sevens and Imissed the memo on the
seven-year itch.
I've been with my company for23 years and it really resonated
with me that I may have missedsome opportunities along the way
being loyal to a company.
So it hit me, it made me maybego.
Hmm, what did?

I do wrong, oh for sure.
And interestingly, in myjourney and I have had a degree
of success I've done pretty well.
But in my journey I've neverstayed anywhere for seven years.
So I'm sort of at the oppositeend of that and it was sort of,
you know, interesting to take astep back and think about okay,
the first year you're justlearning the job, that the

(01:05:42):
second year you're kind year,you're kind of honing your
skills and trying to make animprint.
And it's really after those twoyears where you're in a flow,
you're in a rhythm and you canreally start to run and really
start to fly.
And that definitely resonatedwith me.

Yeah, I just you hear a lot of determination with
her.
You know she knew what shewanted.
She went after it.
A lot of courage, a lot ofdetermination, and it wasn't
easy.
You know when she's climbingthat corporate ladder, you know
right.
And so really a privilege totalk to her.
Can't thank her enough forsharing with us how she got

(01:06:29):
there, what the job is like.
I mean, the insights were justincredible.

Absolutely.
You know, for me, some of thestuff that really caught my
attention was about leadership,leadership traits, about being
approachable, authentic.
You know, your job is toinspire and support people and
the big thing is to stay up andto be happy and people can feel
that.
You know, I think you know,being a cheerleader is a very

(01:06:55):
big part of being an effectiveleader and running a great
organization and you know,looking at the priorities of
Presperse, you know being one ofthe greatest places in the
country to work for, clearly,she has taken that to heart and
she has brought that to life ina lot of different ways.
So, the authenticity part, theleadership part, you know.

(01:07:16):
I also took a step back andthought about career goals.
You know, when you're layingout your career goals, you need
to make sure that they alignwith who you are as a person,
Because in order for you toreally succeed, you're going to
have to, at least to a degree,enjoy what you're doing and it
needs to matter to you and itneeds to be a part of you, and I

(01:07:39):
just thought that that wasincredibly smart.
There were just so many thingshere that I took away.

Yeah, I'm so glad she emphasized right.
It's about making sure thatyou're okay with what job you're
doing, right, like that's superimportant.
She talked about the don't be asquare peg in a round hole.
You got to make sure that thisthing fits right, because it's
not one size fits all.
The way you're going to do yourbest work is if you're happy
every day going in and doingyour job.
So just the insight.
I can't thank her enoughbecause I learned so much from

(01:08:13):
this episode myself.

Absolutely, which is another theme.
Continuously learn, that's abig part of being successful,
and take care of yourself, etcetera, et cetera, and listen to
podcasts, and listen topodcasts, especially to this
podcast no.

Wrong.

Choices, which I think actually came up along the
way.
It sure did so with that, joy.
Thank you so much for joiningthis episode of no Wrong Choices
.
We also thank you for joiningus.
If this episode made you thinkof someone who could be a great
guest, please send us a notethrough the contact page of our
website at norongchoicescom.

(01:08:49):
While you're there, pleasecheck out our blog for a deeper
look into each of our guests andepisodes.
As mentioned at the start,don't forget to like and follow
us on your favorite podcastplatform and to connect with us
on social media.
You can find us on LinkedIn,instagram, facebook, youtube,
tiktok and X.
Your support helps us to keepbringing these incredible

(01:09:11):
stories to life.
On behalf of Larry Shade,tushar Saxena and me, larry
Samuels, thank you again forjoining us.
We'll be back next week withanother inspiring episode of no
Wrong Choices.

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