The Best of Dave Sarachan: Insights from a World-Class Soccer Coach

Episode Transcript
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Larry Samuels (00:02):
Hello and welcome to a no Wrong Choices Best Of
edition featuring the highlyrespected American soccer coach,
Dave Sarachan.
Dave has recently joined theSan Jose Earthquakes of the MLS
as an assistant, reuniting himwith his longtime partner and
mentor, bruce Arena.
Before we kick off with CoachSarachan, I do have one quick
request.
Please take a moment to likeand follow no Wrong Choices on

(00:25):
your favorite podcast platform.
Your support helps us continuebringing you these great
conversations.
Now let's get started with ouroriginal lead-in.
Today's episode featuresAmerican soccer coach Dave
Sarachan, who has spent the past40 years working at the highest
levels of the sport, includinga run as the head coach of the
US men's national team Tushar,as the most rabid soccer fan on

(00:48):
this podcast, who grew up at thesport, you are the perfect
person to lead us out today.

Tushar Saxena (00:53):
Yeah, so I grew up not only watching the sport
but playing the sport.
My father played the sport as ayoung man.
He played it in college.
So he gave that love to me andthe ability to not only just
speak to someone who's coachedat high levels in college, but
to speak to an actual coach ofthe us men's national team.
Well, I don't really get thatchance all the time.

(01:14):
So an opportunity to speak tosomeone like a dave sarakin,
yeah, I'm going to jump at thatopportunity and I'd love to pick
his brain, not only just whatit what it meant to come up
through the ranks and what itmeant to play on the
professional level, but whatit's like to coach today's
athlete, because obviously themindset changes from when you're
an athlete back in the 70s tocoaching athletes in the new

(01:37):
millennium.
I mean that's got to be a wholedifferent mindset.

Larry Shea (01:40):
Yeah, we love talking about people's journeys
on this show and we do a lot ofresearch and figure out what
makes that person tick.
And here we have an opportunityto find out what makes a head
coach at the highest level tick,and it's a real privilege.
But we we do this research andit's sitting in front of me and
this is an impressive man withimpressive credentials, who's
done some amazing things in hislife, and I absolutely can't

(02:03):
wait to hear his journey.

And for me, I'm always interested in management
and management skills andmanaging conflict and reaching
consensus and things of thatnature, and this is a guy who
clearly has done that in somevery unique ways.
So with that, here is DaveSarachan.
Dave, thank you so much forjoining us.

Dave Sarachan (02:24):
Well, it's great to be here with you guys.
It's an honor to be involved ina nice conversation today, so
thank you.

Don't feel too honored about it.
To be quite honest with you.
So, Dave, first question thisis Tushar, by the way.
Is it football or should we?
Should we refer to it properly,to you as football or soccer?
Which do you prefer?

Oh boy, here we go.
Good question Right out of thebox.
I think, for the purposes oftoday and our listeners, let's
just call it soccer.
Good enough and then off theair, we can talk about football.

Good enough.
Okay so my first question to you.
I guess my next question willbe all right.
So as a child you must havebecause, like a lot of us you
know are sometimes the firstsport we play is not always
going to be baseball my firstsport as a kid, in in little
league and pal leagues growingup, was soccer.

(03:22):
I, I'm assuming, probably thesame.
You have probably had the sameexperience.
So as a child, did you?
Was that the your firstintroduction to the game?
And when you started to play asa kid, did you know that this
is what you wanted to do for therest of your life?

Absolutely not.
No, my generation, uh, and youalluded to it you know my, my
dad was played baseball.
Uh, I have know my dad playedbaseball.
I have an older brother thatplayed baseball and basketball.
Nobody played soccer in myfamily and you know, during the
time when I was young, under 10,soccer was really very minimal

(04:01):
around in the country.
I wasn't really exposed to it.
So you know, I did all sportsas a kid baseball, little league
baseball like you I was,believe it or not, for a five
foot five inch guy, I was reallygood at basketball.
But I was introduced to soccermore or less in my really in the

(04:22):
neighborhood I grew up therewere some older guys a couple of
houses down that played for thehigh school soccer team and
they would have the ball out onthe yard and I kind of got
introduced to it there, gettingto know them, going up and
watching their practices and soon.
And then obviously I started toplay it.

(04:42):
I was too small for Pop Warnerfootball that was a big deal
back in the day and my parentsweren't thrilled about me
playing football.
So I was very athletic and Iwas able to be pretty good at it
.
So I was introduced to soccerreally through the people in my
neighborhood and the high school.

Larry Shea (05:01):
So you really learned from not organized
soccer.
You learned from a couple guysdown the street and you guys
would get together and is thatwhere you kind of applied your
skill to be a good athlete, agood player, because you
obviously became a very goodplayer.

Yeah, I got exposed to it through some older
guys, as I said, that had aball in the neighborhood, to it
through some older guys, as Isaid, that had a ball in the
neighborhood.
We did start kicking.
I was very athletic as a kid.
I was very quick and fast.
You know, in our neighborhoodwe'd play touch football and
running bases and all the thingsthat young American kids would

(05:40):
do, and I was a little guy but Iwas really quick.
And when soccer got thrown outthere a ball I was I was pretty
good at it early and I kind offell in love with it based on
their reaction and theinteraction I had with some of
the older guys.
And then obviously I was kindof introduced to our local

(06:05):
professional team, getting toknow that we had a team in town
and started to watch them.
And as I got through juniorhigh school and now kickball
became soccer, I just sort oflatched onto it because it just
was a perfect fit for me latchedonto it because it just was a

(06:26):
perfect fit for me.

When did you know that?
You know you were somethingspecial and you were a standout
and it was something you wantedto chase and pursue.

Yeah, you know, you get validation a little bit
when you now try out for teamsand you get selected by teams.
You know, up through eighthgrade it's more recreational.
But once I got to high schoolmy varsity coach at the time
took me and one other player upfrom as a freshman to play

(06:57):
varsity, which back then wasvery unheard of, and the light
bulb kind of went on going.
Okay, if he thinks I'm readyfor that, then you know, maybe,
maybe I am pretty good at thisgame.
So that that gave me a realpositive feeling about the sport
and I succeeded in high schoolas a young guy, as a freshman,

(07:21):
and then by the time I sort offinished, our team was the
sectional champions and I was ahigh school All-American and
each year the soccer got alittle better.
I started to get a littlestronger and I kind of knew then
that, you know, I can certainlyget into a college and play

(07:45):
college soccer and, who knows,from there.

So, dave, you mentioned a moment ago that you
were a good athlete growing up.
So was soccer.
Or when you had started to playsoccer and you understood that
you had an ability, coaches said, hey look, you're a really good
soccer player, et cetera.
Were you still playing othersports in high school, like
baseball, basketball, as yousaid?

(08:09):
You were a very good basketballplayer for a guy who was only
five foot something.
You know were you.
Were you still essentiallysaying you know, I can still
play other sports as well.
Or were you simply saying toyourself, okay, I'm going to
concentrate solely on soccer.
And then, when you saw thatcould take you other places, to
college being the next level,was that the sole goal at that
point?

No, I played.
I played soccer in the fall,basketball in the winter,
baseball in the spring.
So you, played every four yearsevery year in high school, every
year and, like I said, I wasblessed athletically.
I was obviously doing well insoccer, basketball.

(08:50):
I knew I mean I love basketballbut I knew that I the DNA into
my family, it wasn't going tohappen professionally but I
played.
I all through uh four years ofthat and baseball as well and I
think I I personally feel allplaying all those sports uh

(09:12):
didn't diminish my skill levelin in the sport of soccer.
I know nowadays everybody uhspecializes and and people are
kind of down on doing othersports.
For me it was the opposite.
So I did play all sports and itreflected because I sure wasn't
a great student.
I put a lot of time and effortinto my athletics.

Shall, I assume that there are not a lot of Will
Chamberlains in your family?

There are not.
No.
No, the tallest is my brother,who's 5, 5'10, and I look at him
as a giant so that's great yeah, genetics.

Larry Shea (09:50):
Genetics didn't play out in terms of the height I
play golf, so I understand youlook for sports where five foot
five, five foot six works right.
You know you don't have to bethat big guy, but you mentioned
your speed.
I mean your speed.
Your ball handling, I'm surewas pretty good, like where.
Those were the things that setyou apart in the soccer world,
though, and what was that nextstep?
Was it getting scholarshipoffers at that point and and

(10:14):
working into the collegiatelevel?

yeah, so, um, I took, I took each sport
seriously, uh, depending on theseason, but you're asking about
the sport that I love soccer.
It's funny.
I think back growing up.
I lived in one house my wholelife in Rochester, new York.
We had an unbelievably athleticneighborhood.
We had a hedgerow.

(10:37):
We had about six to eightbushes that were four feet apart
and I would literally take asoccer ball and dribble in and
out of those bushes Time myself.
I would hit the ball against.
We had a side little brick area.
I found ways to improve myskill Kind of on my own.

(10:57):
I didn't, you know, back thenwe didn't have personal coaches
so and my dad and mom didn'tknow anything about soccer.
So I honed it a lot by just alot of repetition and and I
guess the outcome when Ifinished my high school career
was I had speed, I had theability to use both feet and I

(11:20):
developed a soccer IQ and Ithink having those three things
alerted coaches at the collegelevel to start scouting and
recruiting.
My challenge was and I washalfway kidding about the
academics.
I really didn't put a lot oftime into academics.
So although I ended up atCornell, I had to go to junior

(11:42):
college before Cornell and I'mthrilled that I did because A
academically it helped me get myact together.
But also the soccer wasfantastic.
I mean, back then juniorcollege competition was
incredible.
We weren't national championsbut we were always in the

(12:03):
national tournament and thatexposed me to even more coaches
that recruited me.
So that pathway was importantfor me.

So you went from junior college to Cornell.
Why Cornell?
Why did you pick there?

Well, I grew up in Rochester.
I knew Cornell, its reputation,but I also knew its soccer
program and, through a crazytwist of fate, when I was in
high school at Brighton, one ofmy English teachers was the best
friend of the head coach atCornell, the soccer coach, dan

(12:41):
Wood, and this guy's name wasBruce Musgrave.
And Bruce said to Dan you gotto check this kid out.
He called me the bouncing beanof Brighton.

Wow, a lot of alliteration.
I like that.

Yeah, yeah, say that fast.
And my grades weren't goodenough to get into Cornell.
But when I finished at MonroeCommunity, dan heavily recruited
me to go to Cornell and I knewthe reputation.
I knew and my mom and dad knewlook if you can get to an Ivy

(13:17):
League school you'd be crazy notto consider it.
Yeah, and there were no athleticscholarships but that's
irrelevant and luckily I wasable to get admitted.
I was recruited.
I knew all about the academicinstitution but the soccer they
were national, nationally rankedin the top three.
Ivy League soccer at that timewas fantastic.

(13:39):
So I was able to get admittedand have a great two year career
at Cornell.

I was able to get admitted and have a great
two-year career at Cornell.
So, Dave, you're at Cornell.
Tell us a little bit about yourrun there.
I mean, clearly you did verywell.
You became a professionalplayer.
What were some of thehighlights?

of that experience.
Well, cornell was fantastic.
First and foremost, I had agreat coach, dan Wood.
Unfortunately he passed acouple years ago, but Dan, he
was really an intellect.
I learned a lot about the gamethrough him.
He wasn't the greatestcommunicator but, boy, he knew
his soccer and we had such agood team.

(14:16):
We were really diverse,international.
We had a player from China fromback then it was called
Yugoslavia, from Peru.
So we were very internationaland we were, we were ranked in
the top 10 in the country andduring my time at Cornell we won

(14:39):
the Ivy League championship andin soccer, college soccer.
Back then, you know, pro soccerreally hadn't completely taken
off.
The NASL was alive, but soccerwas at a pretty good level back
then, and the Ivy Leagueespecially.
So I was fortunate enough togain the trust of my team.

(15:00):
They named me captain in a teamthat was quite talented and we
had great success and I wasfortunate by the end where I was
sort of, you know, I made allIvy and I was an All-American.
It put me on a platform to getexposure for the next level,

(15:23):
which was the North AmericanSoccer League.
So I owe so much and Igraduated.
By the way, fellas, I want tomake that clear.
I made my parents very happybecause, I came home with an Ivy
League degree which, if youwere a betting man, dave Serekin
, was not going to an Ivy Leaguecollege as a senior in high

(15:45):
school, not alone graduatingfrom one and having grown up in
a similar environment.

I'm sure that your parents told every single
human being that they knew thattheir son graduated from Cornell
.
You got it.
You got it.
So, dave, what did you learnfrom being a captain?
You got it.
So, dave, what did you learnfrom being a captain?
You know you eventually becamea coach, which is so much about
leadership and management anddealing with conflict and things
of that nature Like what didyou take away from the

(16:13):
experience of being the captainof that team?

Well, I guess I was fortunate.
Prior to that experience in highschool and in junior college I
was named captain, so somewherethere was a thread of trust
within the group that I wasgoing to be a guy that was

(16:38):
somewhat selfless, that took thegroup and put the group as an
important piece above kind of myown personal sort of desires.
And I took that very seriouslyand I kind of got an early sense
, way back in high school,sports, how teams should work in

(17:03):
order to be successful.
And I guess I accumulated thoseexperiences so that when I was
captain at Cornell because ifyou think about it, the players
that were on that team therewere some other junior college
players but a lot were freshmen,sophomores, juniors all the way
through their collegeexperience at Cornell.

(17:23):
So here's a guy that came in asa junior and I guess earning
their trust early and taking itseriously, as I said that,
making sure that it wasn't justabout me, that I would
communicate with everybody andform a relationship with the

(17:45):
group and kind of keep thetemperature of the group
throughout the ups and the downs.
So it was a great experiencethat opened my eyes to you know
how good you can be with theright leadership and the right
people, that sort of all buy in.

Was that maybe the starting point for you?
I mean, we're going to talk alittle bit maybe we're
definitely going to talk aboutit in a few minutes, but was
that maybe the germination pointwhere you said to yourself you
know what at some point in thefuture I could coach Well?

I think that certainly was a big part of it.
You know, I remember reallyspecifically before I got to
well, no, before I graduatedhigh school, I think it might've
been my senior year Everywinter there was a kids versus
teachers basketball game, andbecause I was on the basketball

(18:43):
team I couldn't play.
It was just, like you know, thenormal student body.
But they asked me to coach thatteam and I remember going home
and picking out a sports jacket.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know,going home picking out a sports
jacket and a tie and I borroweda clipboard because you know
that's what coaches wore backthen.
And I remember, you know,organizing the students that

(19:07):
were going to play the teachers.
It was a big assembly and Iremember kneeling, you know, in
the huddle and talking about howwe're going to do this and you
could just imagine right, andeven then I got this feeling
like God, this charged me up.
It really did, just having agroup like that.
And then you know theexperiences along the way

(19:28):
throughout the college.
I knew that if I wasn't goingto coach, I was going to either
teach or counsel, but somethingthat involved being a people,
person and forming relationships.
But I caught the soccer bug andyou know I was very focused on
being a professional, uh, so Ididn't think about what am I

(19:49):
going to do when that's done.
But throughout my professionalcareer I knew when, toward the
end, I said no, I, I, this istoo.
I love this game, uh, and and Ifelt I wanted to be a part of
it, uh, and learn how to be acoach.
Part of it and learn how to bea coach.

How many times did students beat the teachers?

You know, I think none, because even if we were
winning.
I think the teacher no, no, Ithink we did well, I can't
remember exactly, but let me saythis I think I was one and O,
that's all that matters.
There you go.

That is all that matters.
All right, so let me continueon with the college career.
So you're getting close to theend of your college career.
At this point, the NorthAmerican Soccer League I mean,
it's not baseball, it's notfootball, it's not basketball
Actually, it's actually probablya better comparison, maybe, to
basketball, because probasketball was still something

(20:42):
of a fledgling state You'restill dealing with the ABA.
The professional NBA itself isstill kind of floundering about.
Granted, north American socceris trying to take off in the
United States, but there's stillno real viable, I guess,
grassroots or foundation here inAmerica.
Were you A thinking abouttrying to play, you know,

(21:06):
obviously beyond your collegeyears, or was there okay, once
college is over, I have to gointo the workforce.
What was the plan at that point?
What were you going to actuallybecome, if not a professional
soccer player?

Well, let's go back to part of the earlier part
of the question.
By the time I was a senior atCornell, I was very well aware
of the North American SoccerLeague.
There were previous Cornellplayers that were drafted and
playing in the North AmericanSoccer League.
I was driven in my head to tryto have the opportunity to play

(21:40):
in the NASL, specifically for myhometown team, which was the
Rochester Lancers, which is youknow.
We didn't speak about that, butpart of what drove me to think
that, hey, this is possible waswhen I was old enough to go to
those games.
I would watch the Lancers andthey had a player, Carlos
Metidieri.

(22:01):
He was a five foot fiveBrazilian who was tearing it up.
Player Carlos Metidieri, he wasa five foot five Brazilian who
was tearing it up.
He was the MVP at one point ofthe league and I said, well,
there's a little guy that canplay.
So I was very aware of the NASLand my coach, dan Wood, at the
time had said to me look, I'mvery well connected with a lot
of these younger Americancoaches who are playing in the

(22:22):
league.
You're, I think you're going toget drafted and you know, I'm
going to try to help you helpyou, you know, you know fulfill
your dream.
And I was fortunate enough tobe drafted by my Rochester
Lancer team, so I was prettydriven to give that a shot, a
big time shot.

Larry Shea (22:42):
So you're drafted, you go to Rochester, home,
basically, and at that point isit about earning a spot on the
team.
Do you know you're going to beon the team and you'll be a
bench player or role player, orare you thrust into the, into
the fire right there?

Well, yeah, if we had, if we had hours, I have
some great stories.
But I was just thrilled to havethe opportunity.
Well, let me go back.
I was drafted in January of 76,and I was still a senior at
Cornell.
So I wasn't going to just quit.

(23:18):
I was too close to getting adegree.

So what.

I was doing was, I was, I was.
Yeah, I was traveling toRochester three days a week,
which is 90 miles in the winter,because we had indoor training.
So I tried to make animpression for my coach.
He was a Yugoslavian coach andby the end of the indoor
training then we had to go toSan Diego for an outdoor

(23:42):
training.
And, to make this long storyshort, I I put myself in a
position where they felt that Icould uh play at that level and
they signed me to a contract.
And my first contract uh wasnon-negotiable, it was $2,000,
uh for the season.
And uh all, the all, the all,the all.

(24:04):
The Americans basically signedthe same contract.
So we would.
We would practice in themorning and paint houses in the
afternoon to make extra money.
Yeah, but, but.

I was a pro and I played in the.

NASL.
It was at a time when the NASLwas in the limelight because of
players like Pelé and Chinagliaand the Cosmos.
Let's face it, they helpedpropel the league into more of
the forefront than behind thescenes.
So my timing was good.
It didn't allow me a lot ofplaying time, nor a lot of the

(24:41):
Americans, because a lot offoreign players were coming in,
but the experience was fantasticwhat was it like to play with
against those guys?

with those guys, tell us some some pele and
chinaglia stories well, it wassurreal, I mean.

So here I am, a 22 year old kid in 1976 and and
I I was.
I was fortunate because you, Iused to get soccer did not have
the exposure it does today.
There isn't anything.
There wasn't anything like youknow where, it was on TV all the
time, or whatever, but I wouldsubscribe to magazines.

(25:18):
I followed international soccer.
I knew about Pelé and Chinagliaand Beckenbauer, george Best,
johan Cruyff these are legendsin the game.
Legendary names, legendaryfigures, legends, legends, I
mean.
And here I am with Rochesterand I'm on the same field with

(25:39):
these guys.
So you can imagine I was 22.
I mean, pelé unfortunately justlost and that's been in the
news lately and it conjures upsome incredible memories.
But my favorite was when hecame to Rochester with the
Cosmos my first year and we hada player on our team, Frank Odoi
, who was from Ghana, whoactually knew Pelé, and he said,

(26:01):
hey, I'm going to introduce youguys.
When he said you guys, he meantthe American guys.
So before the day, before youknow, they're on the practice
field.
And I remember taking a photo.
I have it.
In fact I've been trying to digit up in my boxes of stuff, but
and I will where I put my armaround Pele and we have this
photo, and I remember his lowerback was like marble and he was

(26:24):
36 at the time and just to be inhis presence, I mean it was
hard to describe.
Uh, I remember going out to LAand George Best walks by me and
if you remember, you know youguys may not, but he, he was
like a matinee idol and when,when you looked at him, it's
like my God, I mean this guy,you get a man crush on a guy

(26:47):
like this.
But you know, when we went toplay the Cosmos in New York,
that was just incredible becausethe place was packed.
You had Beckenbauer, who Iloved, you had Chinaglia, stevie
Hunt I could go through all thenames, and then, of course,
pelé.
So you were a little, I was alittle star struck.
Stevie Hunt, I could go throughall the names, and then, of
course, pelé.
So you were a little, I was alittle starstruck, no question.

Larry Shea (27:09):
But you know, to be able to see their skill level up
close, it was daunting reallyit's so interesting because I
wanted to ask you if at anypoint in your professional
career you wanted to maybepursue European soccer or maybe
South America or somewhere else,to kind of immerse yourself in

(27:29):
that world where it's much moreappreciated.
But it sounds like all of thosestars were here making a good
paycheck because, right, it wasa draw and it was, it was a way
for them to play in America andget exposure.
It's such a different scene nowthan it was then.

Talk a little bit about that yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, back then there was,there weren't any Americans that
were going over to play inEurope.
From my memory not not duringmy era that that changed
obviously in the 90s and 2000sand and so on.

Because they weren't good enough, Dave.

I don't think.
I think that's a big part of itand in the culture.

I can really remember who got a chance.
John Harkin was the first one.
I can really remember who got achance.

John Harkin yep, John Harkin, who I coached, by
the way, at UVA and have knownJohn, yes, he was one of the
first to go over and play inEngland.
He had a dual passport.
Yeah, there were a lot oflayers to why it wouldn't happen

(28:33):
, but basically the Americanplayer wasn't ready for European
soccer, nor was the.
You know, there wasn't eventhat much exposure to it back
then.
Final paycheck and grow thegame.
Eventually it did in the NASL,the Cosmos, because these other

(28:59):
markets couldn't afford to payplayers like Steve Ross and
Warner Brothers could with theCosmos.
So that's a different story.
But for me personally, no, Inever would.
It wasn't in my realm ofthought to say, boy, I'd like to
go to play in England because,yeah, back then it was the NASL.

Larry Shea (29:18):
Really, so if you're making $2,000, I mean, how much
are these international playersmaking coming over here,
because it seems like that'swhere all the salary went to is
these guys?

Is Pele making $3,000?
Seriously.

Larry Shea (29:31):
Like what could?
Obviously, they wrote him a bigfat check to get him to come
here.
Do you remember roughly what wewere talking about?

no, I think there's documentation about that
.
I mean, if I get you know it,might it might have been a
million dollars, which doesn'tsound like anything today, but
back then it was, it was a lot.
It was a lot, uh, but it wastrue for all those guys and
honestly guys, for me it wasn'tabout the money.
I didn't think about, man, Iwant to be a pro because I want

(30:02):
to drive a nice car and make alot of money.
I honestly, too naive.
I just I wanted to have thatexperience and obviously, you
know, when I got, actually whenI played indoor soccer, my
brother, who's an attorney, didmy contract and I was making a
pretty good living as an indoorsoccer player, but it wasn't

(30:25):
really about the money.
For these older guys that cameover, it sure was about the
money, but you know, everybodyhas their own way of being
motivated.

So when did we now move to the?
When did we say to ourselvesokay, the playing career is over
, I want to move to the sideline?
At what point did we say we'renow ready to transition to the
sideline?

Yeah, that was at the end of my indoor career in
82.
I finished playing and thecoach that was working at
Cornell at the time needed anassistant and I moved back to
upstate New York, to Rochester.

Were there two Dan Wood at the time.

No, no, dan was gone.
This was another coach.
Jack Ryder was the coach atCornell, and so I knew that I
wanted to get some experiencecoaching and there was an
opportunity, so I went backthere in 83.

And how old were you at that point?

At that point I was oh boy, I was born in 54.
Let's do the math 29?
.
I was going to say I was bornin 54.
Let's do the math 29?
Is that right?

I was going to say right around 30.

Okay, yeah, yeah, close to 30.
That's right.
And had a couple seasons there.
And then Bruce Arena, who wasthe head coach at UVA and those
that know soccer know aboutBruce Arena.
My God, he was a Cornellian butwe didn't play together because
he was a transfer, so I didn'treally know Bruce, but he knew

(31:58):
me and I knew him and there wasan opportunity to join him as a
full-time, first at Cornell, tojoin Bruce in 84.

(32:18):
And that was really thespringboard to an accelerated
learning curve of collegiatesoccer learning how to coach,
what it takes, formingrelationships, recruiting,
scheduling, and then from thereI was offered the opportunity to
be the head coach at Cornelland there it went.

(32:41):
So 82 and 3 and 4 were thebeginnings of knowing that, okay
, this is going to be myprofession.

Larry Shea (32:48):
So is it fair to say that it was a relationship that
got you to this point, or itwas.
It was obviously your almamater, so it was easy to go back
to Cornell, right?
But is it is it then, knowingBruce and him kind of taking you
along and saying I have thisopportunity and you're going to
come along too?
Is it a relationship thing oris it what, at this point early

(33:11):
in the coaching career?

Yeah, early you know life is about timing and
opportunity and recognizing it.
And I guess you know my mom wasright Get a Cornell degree
because I believe One way oranother.
Yeah, you know she because my,you know Bruce knew about me

(33:36):
because of Cornell.
He followed the teams, he knewI was a good player.
People that knew me recommendedme.
Anyway, the Cornell connectionabsolutely got me in the door
with Bruce and then, by workingwith Bruce and having success,
now, five years into my UVAexperience, the Cornell job

(33:57):
opens and here I have five yearsunder my belt at an ACC
championship team, nationalranked team.
So the connection that Cornellplayed again got me an interview
and helped get me the positionas the head coach at Cornell to
go back in 89.
And that was just a wonderfulreintroduction to go back to

(34:23):
Cornell, having been a player,now being the head coach.
So yes, the relationship andthe experience you know dotted
one I and crossed one T and gotme that opportunity.

So, Dave, you had a lot of success in college,
UVA, going to Cornell, and thenyou went to the MLS.
What was the desire to jumpMeaning?
Could you have stayed incollege, risen to the top of
those ranks and been content?
Why was the MLS compelling toyou?

That's a really good question.
You alluded to it.
The collegiate setting ispretty much you're working with
a safety net.
Very rarely in our sport ofsoccer were you going to lose a
job.
I could have stayed at Cornellfor 20, 25 years, but again an

(35:33):
opportunity came where BruceArena was the head coach at DC
United, which was in MajorLeague Soccer and early on.
The league started in 96, butin 97, the assistant there was
Bob Bradley, who left and therewas an opening and Bruce called
me while I was at Cornell andsaid I want to offer you this
position.
Think about it.
And I had a young family at thetime and I felt as though I left

(35:59):
the last couple of years atCornell in a really good spot.
We were Ivy champs, we went tothe NCAA tournament and I just
felt the leap of faith.
I wanted to challenge myselfwhat is the next level like?
And to be able to now pushmyself professionally to another

(36:21):
level work with a guy that I'mfamiliar with, get into a team
that I feel has good ownershipand a good roster that can win
because they had one, has goodownership and a good roster that
can win because they had one.
When I added it all up.
I just felt in my gut if you'regoing to push yourself to be as
good as you can be, you've gotto take this opportunity,

(36:46):
knowing that in professionalsports it could last a year.
But I had the right supportinternally and my gut told me
you got to do this and I did itand thank goodness I did.
I did love the collegeexperience, but it was time for
me to get to the next level.

Dave, I've always thought that coaches,
especially at the college level,are teachers.
They're first and foremostteachers, and you spoke, you
said, you know, you saidyourself that your first coach
in college, jack wood, was avery influential person on you
and you know how much did heinfluence your style as a coach.
And then you know, movingforward, jack rider, bruce arena

(37:25):
, how much have they influencedyour style of coaching, and then
how has that turned and how hasthat then given you your own
style, and then have you beenable to then give that to other
assistants under you.
How is it then you then mentorother younger players and other
younger coaches?

yeah, yeah, a good question.
No, I, you know, I I've taken.
I've taken all my experiencesand a little piece of all the
coaches I had starting back inhigh school.
My junior college coach was nota particularly sophisticated
soccer mind but he was anincredible human being, an

(38:04):
incredible empathetic guy, theway he treated us.
Dan Wood was a good guy butsocially it was a challenge for
him but he literally had an IQof like 160.
He was brilliant.
So I took a little bit of thetactical side.
I took a little bit of thehumanistic side.
With Bruce.

(38:26):
Let's face it, he's arguablythe most decorated American
coach in American soccer Of alltime.
Yeah, the most decoratedAmerican coach in American
soccer Of all time.
Yeah, and I took a lot of thedetails that are needed to
succeed and man management.
So all the coach, and even thecoach that coached me in

(38:47):
Rochester, who at the time Idisliked because he never played
me or the Americans.
We used to make fun of him andbut.
But as an adult I can kind ofthink back to some of the things
that I could take from him.
So it's like comedians, you know, you take a little, you take
jokes and routines fromeverybody and now you formulate
your own way.

(39:07):
And the one learning thing thatI can share with you is that
when I, when I did get myopportunity to be the head coach
at Chicago with the Chicagofire, you know, at the beginning
, um, I try, I I copied too muchof Bruce.
I was his assistant for such along period of time and I
realized very quickly that Ihave to have my own voice and I

(39:30):
have to do it my way, which Idid, and luckily you know I was
successful.
But to answer your questionhave to do it my way, which I
did, and luckily you know I wassuccessful.
But to answer your question ina long winded way.
I've taken a little bit of allthose experiences and sort of
molded into how I now can mentorand teach and get the point
across, because at the end ofthe day, you've got to be able

(39:54):
to communicate.
And if you don't mind, I canshare one other kind of fun
quick story when I was at.
UVA.
Yeah, you know, when I was atUVA during the winter, bruce and
I we went to all the basketballgames.
Ralph Sampson was there.
They were great.
Acc basketball was incredible.
So every home game at halftimewe would go into our soccer

(40:16):
office, which was about 200square feet, but the vent above
us led into the visiting team'sbasketball locker room.
So we were oh wow, you were themole, yeah, yeah.
Now full disclosure.
We never once went back toTerry Holland, the head coach of

(40:37):
UVA's basketball, to say, hey,by the way, here's what they're
talking about.
No, the whole idea was I wantto hear how Jim Valvano talks to
his team.
I want to hear how LeftyDrizelle talks to his team, I
want to hear how Bobby CreminsCan you imagine?
And so so I use that examplebecause I'm always looking at

(40:59):
even other sports and leaders inother sports and how they talk
and communicate and when theyhave to put the hammer down, ok,
you've got to do it this way orwhen you've got to soften the
message.
And so it was an incrediblelearning experience and to this
day, I still do that.
You know, I love Steve Kerr andthe way he operates his team

(41:22):
and the way he carries himselfand how he communicates, greg
Popovich.
So you know, I think you take alittle bit of all that all the
time, but you still have to beyourself.

I think you take a little bit of all that all the
time, but you still have to beyourself.
You know, as you, as you bringthat up.
You know one of the questionsthat I had wanted to get to
during this this conversationwas about managing.
You know world class athletes,leading world class athletes.
I know you had the opportunityto coach a David Beckham, for

(41:53):
example.
The opportunity to coach aDavid Beckham, for example, like
, how do you deal with people atthat level and get them to buy
into your philosophy and getthem to take direction?
I mean, what's it like to dealwith those looking from the
outside, egos or those types ofpeople?

Yeah, yeah, no, look, it's when Bruce asked me
to join him with the Galaxy.
He and I were hired together.
At the same time they let go ofthe previous staff, and that
was 2008.
And we inherited a verydysfunctional locker room.
David Beckham was there, LandonDonovan was there.

(42:31):
There was a myriad of mishmashkind of personalities within
that locker room.
This was August of 2008.
And even back with DC United,we had Marco Etcheverry and
Jaime Moreno.
These were big, big, big people.
So my first exposure to highlevel pros started at DC.

(42:53):
And, and look, my daughter hada poster of Beckham on her wall
the day I accepted to join Bruce.
So you know I was.
I got to admit.
You know.
You walk in and there's Beckhamand it's like holy smokes.
You know this is the real deal.
And it's like holy smokes.
You know this is the real deal,but but my, where I'm going

(43:14):
with all this is?
My success with these kinds ofpeople has always started from
the humanistic side first, notthe soccer side.
Now, of course, they have toget your trust and you have to
gain their trust and respect foryou to have, for them to trust
that.
Hey, you know what you'retalking about from the soccer

(43:34):
sense and I I didn't put thatahead of getting to know them
first as people.
Uh, so they begin to, you know,sort of crack that shell of
okay, here's my coach, but he'sgot a family too, he's got young
kids too, he, he, he's dealingwith LA traffic and so on, and

(43:54):
so you know it starts that wayand then, not being a fan, you
are their coach.
And I'm not trying to be afriend of David Beckham's, I
don't want to join him for abeer in Beverly Hills on the
weekend.
You know, you have to knowwhere to draw the line.
And I think I was fortunate,with my personality and the way

(44:19):
I communicate and sort of handlethat end of it, the right
balance that I gained theirtrust pretty quickly.
And once you've done that, nowyou can say, first of all, I'm
not going to teach David Beckhamhow to strike a ball.
Say, first of all, I'm notgoing to teach David Beckham how
to strike a ball.
Let's face it guys.
So let's cross that thing offthe list.

(44:43):
But we can show them video ofteam stuff.
And the other way I would sayit too is because I respect
where they've been.
So I had, you know, davidBeckham, robbie Keane, landon
Donovan, ashley Cole, stephenGerrard.
I would enable them andencourage them to have their
voice in a lot of this and, evenif I disagreed, they felt
invested that way.
They felt respected that wayBecause, I'll be honest with you

(45:06):
, the bigger, the star.
In many ways they're verysensitive and they've got their
insecurities and they still wantto be recognized.
So you got to find the rightbalance.
But it still starts with theright communication and building
that trust that way.
That's kind of how I've alwaysdone it and it's kind of worked

(45:26):
for me.

It's a perfect way to lead into my next
question, then.
So is there?
Is there a big differencebetween the the ego of the
european latin american player,those who are obviously playing
soccer on a much higher levelthan the american player?
So is there a huge differencein terms of the ego of and of,
uh, of dealing with davidbeckham than there is with

(45:49):
dealing with a Landon Donovan?

You know that's an individual, that's kind of an
individual evaluation.
I'd say I would answer thatthis way Certainly, early on in
Major League Soccer, let's say,when Europeans or South
Americans came to our league,they felt they were coming into

(46:11):
an environment where they werejust going to dominate, they
were going to be the best, thisleague's secondary.
They had an attitude and an egothat you know the American game
can't be as challenging aswhere I'm coming from early on.
But I think, through time andthrough improvements and better
quality, whether it's coachingfacilities, players I don't

(46:35):
think there's a big differencenow and again.
Here's another good example.
Here's David Beckham with theGalaxy, arguably the greatest,
the biggest name on the planetin terms of soccer at the time,
arguably.
And but he, he played for AlexFerguson at Manchester United

(47:00):
and Alex Ferguson took no crapfrom any player.
He managed.
He managed players in a waywhere those players would then
come into the next environmentknowing how to treat coaches
with respect, treat rookies withrespect.

(47:21):
There was an incident thathappened with me and you know
I'm a mild-mannered guy and Inever I rarely get into
confrontation, but there was amoment in one of the practices
with LA where one of theAmerican guys argued with me
over something silly, I don'tknow.
I was reffing and he was justbeing unbelievably disrespectful

(47:41):
and I was about to get backafter him and Beckham was
standing there and he didn't saya word.
He pulled this player, justpulled him away, walked 20 yards
and had a conversation with himand about 15 minutes later, the
guy came up and apologized tome.
And I know why David did thatbecause he was brought up the

(48:04):
right way in an environmentwhere you don't do that.
You just don't do that, and soit depends on the person in the
player, honestly, and theenvironment you brought in so
because there's plenty ofamericans that have an ego.

Larry Shea (48:19):
Let me tell you yeah I can't wait to talk about
america, the american game andwhere we are now.
But uh, curious, you know.
Is it easier to work with ayounger player because you can
mold them into what you wantthem to be, or are you prefer to
work with a veteran because youdon't have to teach them how to
strike a ball?
You can work on the finerpoints of the game.
Obviously, I'm sure you love towork with both, but which is

(48:40):
more challenging for you?

I really enjoy teaching.
You've alluded to that Teachingand coaching and mentoring.
If I had to pick, you know the,the.
I love the relationships that Iformed with a lot of these
veterans, like Robbie Keene.
You know we talk two, threetimes a month.
You know we've we've becamefriends and he was he was really

(49:07):
a legendary guy and a real proand I love those relationships.
But as far as if you're askinggetting in the weeds of really
getting on the field andcoaching and teaching the young
guys are great because they aremore malleable.

They are more open, they're still clay right.

Yeah, exactly Exactly, and it's more
frustrating because they're notaccomplished yet, and it can be.
You have to have patience,which I think I do have, but I
do enjoy that part and you knowthe year I had the national team
before this, this last cycle wehad a lot of young guys and it

(49:48):
was really some of the mostgratifying work I've had.
So I would say the young guysis really something I really do
enjoy.

That's where I was going to head next.
So you know your experiencewith the American team.
You were there, it was a 2002,your first time through with the
World Cup and the men'snational team.
Is that right, yeah?

Yeah, I.
I started in 2000 with with thenational team and and uh was
part of the 2002 world cup team,which was uh extraordinary.
That was my first, so what wasthat?

Yeah, Like, like, what is that experience like?
Is it?
Are you teaching young guys?
Are you dealing with veterans?
Is it a blend of both?
You know it.
You know the guys are off doingother things at different times
of the year.
It's like how do you meld thattype of a team together?
And what is that experiencelike?

Well, national teamwork is unique because, to
your point, you don't have themdaily of opportunities
throughout the year, in eachyear leading up to the World Cup
, to bring that group togetherto make sure that you convey how

(51:00):
we do things, what's expected,the style of play, so on and so
forth.
So it's a real challenge.
People from the outside cannever really know, but it's a
challenge and when I had theexperience I had excuse me
leading up to 2002, it's a lotof trial and error.

(51:23):
Guys come in, guys come out,guys can be hurt, guys might not
be available.
You have to be adaptable as acoach, you have to have patience
and then you have to have agood sort of program so that
you're playing a lot of goodcompetition and building a
roster for a national team.
In my opinion, it's been proven.

(51:43):
I think that you need the rightblend of veterans and young
players, and at that time we hadincredible veterans and we had
two young players named DemarcusBeasley and Landon Donovan, and
so 2002 was the perfect blend.
But you're not guaranteed that.
So national teamwork is reallya challenge when it comes to

(52:05):
that.

How many coaches were on that staff, aside from
you and Bruce?

coaches were on that staff, aside from you and
bruce, uh, there was um, therewere two other coaches and, uh,
the rest were sort of supportstaff like trainers and so on,
so there was probably well, wehad a goalkeeper coach.
So there was probably fivecoaches on staff, five of us.

So the notion of obviously building the proper
mix of players on your team.
How important, then, is it tothen build not simply the proper
mix of players on a team, but aproper mix of coaches and
support staff on a team, and howmuch of an input do you have on
that?
Because obviously a guy likeBruce Arena he's going to be

(52:50):
more like the CEO and obviouslyyou're going to be like one of
his lieutenants.
So how much of a role and aninput do you have in building a
staff like that, and how muchhas your experience worked to
recruit and to mentor thosefolks who come?

along.
Love that question.
Love it Because I think what'sreally overlooked in mentoring
and in our profession is theimportance of staffing and the
importance of an assistant coach.
The quick answer is it'smassively important for a head

(53:27):
coach to build his team and whenI say team, I'm talking about
the staff now to build his team,and when I say team, I'm
talking about the staff now Withthe right personalities.
One of the reasons I think Bruceand I you know, I guess you
know we're arguably the mostsuccessful duo in US soccer, or
I should well, in Americansoccer.
We've been successful everywherebecause you know, there's

(53:51):
things he offers that I don't,and vice versa.
And I think a big part of it isto be able to challenge one
another, to be able to have thetrust of the players, so that if
Steven Gerrard comes to mebecause he doesn't want to go to
Bruce, I'm not just going torat out Steven, I'm going to
have a real conversation on myown terms and have the right way

(54:16):
to communicate and buildingthat trust because many players
go to the assistant rather thanthe head coach or the assistants
plural that you get the rightmix.
You need intelligence, but youneed the way you communicate and

(54:36):
deal with players thatsometimes the head coach isn't
able to do, and so I've seen itnot in a good light, but I've
seen it more in a really goodlight and I think my experience
now as a head coach and leaderthat's one of the most important
pieces is making sure that Ican build my staff where we can

(54:57):
have real honest, openinterchange.
And look, a lot of it is ego.
A lot of head coaches have toomuch of an ego.
They don't want their staff tohave too much input.
I think that's crazy.
You got to have enough securityin your own abilities to say
you know what, if the assistantwants to take a group, now do it
.
You want to have a conversation, do it as long as we're all on

(55:20):
the same page.
So it's massively important.

So, dave, when you look at American soccer
today and I'm sort of jumpingahead a little bit, but having
been the head coach of the USmen's national team for a period
of time.
A I come to this because whatwas it like to be the interim
coach?
What is that dynamic and how doyou work your way through that?

(55:44):
And then B we're very curiousto hear your thoughts on the
future of American soccer.

Well, yeah, I mean.
So obviously, 2017 is goingdown as a difficult period of
time for US soccer, when wedidn't qualify for the World Cup
and that loss in Trinidad, andthat loss in Trinidad.
And then, you know, I didn'tset out to be the next coach but

(56:16):
, by sort of default, we had agame a month later and we needed
a head coach and Bruce hadstepped down and the Federation
said you know, dave, you need totake the team.
The Federation said you know,dave, you need to take the team,
which you know I was very gladto do for so many reasons we
could talk about.

(56:36):
And then the next event wasJanuary and they needed a coach
and I was the guy and at thatpoint there was no.
You know, us soccer was inshambles, really.
The men's team was looked uponas a failure.
Sunil Gulati, who was thepresident at the time, was up
for reelection and his job wason the line.

(56:59):
It was a mess, but it was anhonor for me to have the
opportunity A to be the headcoach of the national team,
regardless of the situation.
But I also took it upon myselfto say, ok, they're giving me
the keys to this ship.
They haven't given me a map.
I don't know where I'm going, Idon't know what the waters are

(57:21):
going to be like, good luck.
And so I just sort of took itupon myself to go.
Look, this may be interim, thismay be lead to full time, but
that's not the issue.
The issue is we've got thesegames.
We've got we've got a Januarycamp.
We've got games in March.
We have this unbelievable 10game schedule in 2018 where

(57:41):
we're playing Paraguay, ecuador,brazil, england, ireland,
france, you know because, theidea was we no, these are the.
this was the greatest schedulein US soccer's history and it
was such a yeah, this, these arereal teams and these were real
opportunities for young guys toexperience.

(58:03):
And so the interim part Ididn't really.
You know, the experience ofbeing the head coach was
important for me.
The need for sort of a calmhead and an experienced guy with
these players was needed.
So I didn't think of it likethis is an audition or I don't

(58:25):
know where this is going to lead.
I just took it and it just kindof rolled.
And by the end, when you know, Iwasn't going to be named the
head coach and they eventuallywent with Greg, I look back and
felt very proud of, you know,the work that we put in to allow
these players these experiencesthat I think they hopefully

(58:48):
would be able to cash in on in2022.
And it was a little weird whenyou asked me you know what was
that like, but I didn't look atit that way.
These were just opportunitiesand it was a great experience.
And to the second part of yourquestion you know, we've never

(59:09):
been in a as a country asindividual players are concerned
.
We've never had the amount oftalent, potential talent that's
available to us than now becauseof the exposure so many of
these guys have had to our proleague and MLS.
And then the opportunities toget over to Europe and everybody

(59:33):
wants to fast forward this andwin a World Cup.
But it's not that easy.
We're heading in a really goodposition.
Certainly in all my years Ihaven't been a part of a
generation of players quite withthis, much to offer.

Why do you think it's taken so long to get to
this point?
You know, I often think about.
You know the number of kidsthat grew up playing soccer and
the great amateur programs andthe great college programs and
the number of really greatathletes that play the sport.
Why has it taken us so long tocatch up to the number of really
great athletes that play thesport Like?

(01:00:13):
Why has it?

Dave Sarachan (01:00:13):
taken us so long to catch up to the rest of the
world?
I don't know, I don't know.
You know there are some ideasthat I would throw out there,
and one of them you alluded to.
As far as college, I'm a bigbeliever of college soccer, but
if you think about the rest ofthe world, players are exposed
to a pro club very early.

(01:00:36):
They're identified very early.
Education is many times bypassedand if you think about those
players throughout all theseyears in South America and
Europe that had as muchrepetition and training, it's

(01:00:57):
hundreds times more than playersback in the day during the
generations where players wereplaying high school soccer, some
club soccer, but then going tocollege, playing high school
soccer, some club soccer, butthen going to college.
There were a lot of steps missedalong the way where it ramped

(01:01:17):
up these, you know, the playersfrom outside of the US, and
we're now just closing that gapwhere and I'm not advocating
young players to not go tocollege what I'm saying is many
more now at a young age arebeing identified like they used
to be in Europe, where anacademy team or a local team
would train them and then they'dplay for the local pro amateurs

(01:01:42):
and then be offered a procontract and bypassing college
altogether, and I think we'renow getting more of those
players who are very serious.
One sport people, not three.
Like I, was committed to itearly, so I think that's what's
delayed a lot of this, to behonest.

Tushar Saxena (01:02:01):
Give me a couple of pieces of advice for young
coaches out there.
They want to get into theprofession of coaching, whether
it be on the sideline, whetherit be on the soccer pitch,
whether it be hell, whether itbe on the sideline for
basketball Cause, as you said,you take your advice and you'll
take your advice from whoever,wherever you can get it.
So what's that one or twopieces of advice you want to
give to a young coach, tosomeone who is aspiring to be a

(01:02:22):
coach?

Well, I would say this you know, and I'll use my
own experiences, but I think Ithink that there's a few things
I would tell a young coach.
One is there is so muchavailable to you out there,
whether it's videos, watchingevery weekend, premiership games
or Bundesliga games, games orBundesliga games watching other
coaches watching, watching,watching and absorbing how

(01:02:52):
coaches behave and how they sortof, how they communicate,
because communication is so key.
So I would say, take in as muchas you can.
Accept the fact that you aregoing to fail, um, accept the
fact that you are going to failyou, you are going to fail, um

(01:03:13):
it, it is part of the process.
And, and knowing that, reallytrust your instincts, um, in how
you uh, teach and and and howyou absorb information and
communicate that information.
And know that you're not goingto reach everybody, because as a

(01:03:34):
young coach, you can reallybeat yourself up to go boy, I
blew that one.
Well, you're going to blow it,but trust your process and stay
with it.
And then the last piece isbecause I'm an older coach now
and I've done this a long time,but I will never concede that
I've figured it all out.
I still watch games and pickout new things all the time.

(01:03:57):
So you just got to keep an openmind throughout your process
and those would be three thingsright off the top of my head.

Those would be three things right off the top
of my head All right, so I havea couple of quickies before.
I know that both the Larryshave a couple of questions for
you, but I got a couple ofquickies.
We should have asked you thisearly on who is your favorite
all-time soccer?

player oh boy.

Oh boy.

My favorite all-time, johan Cruyff.

Favorite soccer movie.

Oh God, it's got to be whatchamacallit.
You know what I'm trying tothink of with Pelé.
If it's not victory, it's theright answer.
It's victory, no, no that's the.

If it's not victory, it's the wrong answer.

Hey, I was getting to that.
You took the word out of mymouth.
It was victory, of course, ofcourse.

You're a guy who played with Pele Canalia and
Beckenbauer.
Two of those three guys are inthat movie.

I know.

Larry Shea (01:05:09):
I know Victory for sure, sure for sure, and you're
a ted lasso fan, we have toassume.

Correct, that was the other question.

Yeah, absolutely, I love I absolute fan of ted lasso
fantastic all right, I love toalways ask the question because
and I love what you said beforeyou're gonna make mistakes.
We're all human, right.
What is the the worst decision,the worst mistake you made,
where you're like I can'tbelieve I just did that.
Is there a moment that sticksout to you?
That boy that was boneheaded,what was I thinking there?

(01:05:36):
Or anything like that.
Or if you can't think of one,the best decision you made in
your career path, the journeyfor your career?

Well, I alluded to the best decision, and that
was taking the leap of faith, uh, and leaving the comforts and
safety of of a collegiateposition to jump to the pros, um
, uh, the worst decision.

Well, I would say this about outside of coming on
this podcast yeah, besidescoming on the podcast that's
right well then I'm done.

I don't have another answer no, no, but I
would say one.
Well, I'll you.
I'll phrase it a littledifferently.
One of the great lessons Ilearned which turned out to be
one of the worst things I did,but it's not that terrible but
one of the great lessons Ilearned as a coach was early on,

(01:06:31):
when I had to tell players theyweren't starting.
First of all, the dynamics of ateam.
You have 11 players in soccerthat start and then you have
usually 12 others that don'tlike you because they're not
playing, and that's just youknow.
And I learned early on A you'rejust not pleasing everybody and
don't worry about it.

(01:06:53):
This is all part of it, as longas you're honest and open.
But the one big mistake I madeearly on and I don't do it
anymore is I had to tell aplayer he wasn't starting and he
had been a starter for me.
This is when I was coaching inChicago.
But I said to him here's thereasons you're not starting, but
you're going to play in thenext game.
Okay, and I never should havesaid that, because when the next

(01:07:18):
game came, I really didn't wantto make any changes to the team
that had just won and and Icommitted to something.
And here's a young man that'sgoing home, going, okay, he gave
me his word, he's going to playme.
And I learned a lesson from that, because then I had to tell him
again by the way, I'm not usingyou.

(01:07:39):
And he's he's going to say well, wait, you told me you were
going to play me.
So one, one big lesson Ilearned is well, two, you've got
to be able to communicate veryclearly and be honest and open,
especially pros.
But everybody, they want thetruth.
Don't BS anybody.

(01:07:59):
Tell me the truth.
You don't want to play me?
Fine, tell me why.
And then don't promise meyou're going to play me and
don't play me, because when thathappens you lose their trust.
So I would say that lessonreally has stood out.

Larry Samuels (01:08:11):
Which applies to business and everything else in
life.
So I guess the last questionI'll ask what does the future
look like?
We know that you're involvedwith Puerto Rican soccer and
leading that team.
What does the future look likefor Dave Sarragan Puerto?

Rican soccer and leading that team.
What does the future look likefor Dave Sarragan?
Oh, that's a.

You know my wife and family are asking that
question, probably right now.

To be honest with you, yeah, yeah, when I hang up
, I'm going to have to deal withthat.
No, well, I've taken on the,you know, the last two I'll call
them seasons but the last twoyears with Puerto Rico, working
with their senior team and theirunder 20 team, which has been
really a fascinating project.

(01:08:57):
I'll call it enjoyable, and I'mcurrently out of contract with
Puerto Rico, so I'm still goingto have a conversation with them
for 2023, because nationalteamwork since I've done it with
the US I do enjoy that kind ofa rhythm.
I'm not ready to retire.
I still have, you know, a bigpart of coaching is you got to

(01:09:21):
have energy, and I feel I stillhave a lot of energy to give
Maybe not when I was 22.
And so I'm entertainingdifferent sort of thoughts going
into 2023.
One is to remain with PuertoRico.
I'm going to have aconversation with them,
hopefully next week.

(01:09:42):
My experience and I'll say,wisdom I don't think I, I don't
think of myself as having a lotof wisdom, but people when they
look at my age, they go, oh, youmust have a lot of wisdom.
You're fooling a lot of people.
Then I'll be honest with you,yeah, yeah.
But to be able to give back,whether it's working with an MLS
club as as a coaching director,working with younger coaches,

(01:10:06):
mentoring younger coaches,because I think we need to get
these younger guys up to speed alittle bit.
So you know, I've entertained afew ideas that way, but we'll
see.
But I'll be involved in somecapacity in 2023 because I still
love it and I'm enjoying beingnear my family now where they

(01:10:28):
have little ones, and so thebalance has worked out well.
So, still to be determined, Iguess.

Well, you're very lucky, because many people
aspire to find that thing thatfills them up and gives them
purpose, which is also tied to acareer and a passion, and you
quite clearly figure that out.
So congratulations for that and, dave, thank you.
Thank you so much for spendingthe time with us today.

I appreciate the kind words and this has been a
blast.
I think you guys do a great job, and thanks for having me on.

What a wonderful opportunity that was for us to
to a talk to a world-class coachand B get to see Tushar act.
Maybe, like he was seven, hewas really falling back to his
childhood quite a bit thatinterview.

I did a lot.
I will say this is just a greatconversation.
I will say this about coach hehe did have the right answer
when he said answer when hetalked about his favorite soccer
movie.
If he did not say victory andhe said bend it like Beckham.
The interview would have ended.
I'm just telling you, we wouldhave ended it right there.

It was the end of the interview.
It would have ended at the endof the interview.

I would have just said look we can't talk anymore
.

I'm sorry.

We can't talk anymore anymore.
I'm sorry, we're done, we gottago anymore, sir.
But look I, what a greatinterview that was.
I mean I gotta tell you.
I mean, you know, even when we,even when we stopped to record,
we talked for a few minuteslonger, and I'm hoping when the
next time he comes to the eastcoast we all have a chance to
get together, because I justlove to meet him in person and
just pick his brain a little bitmore.
First of all, this is a guy whoplayed, who was actually on the
same soccer field with guys likePele, tony Canalia, you know,

(01:12:10):
zamuda Birkenauer, I mean, youknow these are some of the most
legendary people of all time toever play soccer.
And you know, just to even havethat moment to just say, hey,
what was it like to watch themplay live on the field level, I
can't imagine that.
I mean, I'm sitting up in thestands as a kid with my dad, but
to see that on the field level,I can't imagine that.
I mean, I'm sitting up in thestands as a kid with my dad, but
to see that on the field levelmust have just been incredible.

(01:12:32):
And he's so humble.
One thing I took away with.
That is just how humble he is.
He's like a really humble guyand how he was able to like.
And one thing you know we'vehad the chance to speak to
coaches and managers over theyears in our own interviews and
the one thing I always enjoyhearing is how every coach
develops a style, and it's notspecifically their own style to

(01:12:55):
start with.
Obviously.
They pick the best parts fromeveryone who's ever mentored
them along their journey andthen that's where, when they
come to a point of their ownmaturity as a coach, they okay,
this is who I am as a coach anda person and that's really where
that journey kind of I don't, Idon't want to say ends, but
maybe, but maybe that's themiddle point or where, or maybe

(01:13:16):
really that's where the journeybegins for for many of them, and
that's what really what thisstory was all about.

I really, really enjoyed it, yeah, I think most
great coaches are probablyplayers first.
You and Dave, I think.
Is that that's the case withhim?
I don't think it has to be.
I think you just have to have apassion for whatever you want
to go into in the coaching realm.
Yeah, and Dave, you know, heit's still, you know, somewhat
ambiguous to me, like, how doyou get these jobs?
Well, I think it wasrelationships.

(01:13:42):
Right, it was Bruce, it wasother people kind of recognizing
his talent, recognizing hisability and saying to him like
you could kill this job you, youwould knock it out of the park.
You're coming with me and justbecause you're given that
opportunity we say it all thetime doesn't mean you're going
to hit a home run, right?
He obviously has that, thatintellect, the communication

(01:14:03):
skills, everything that you lookfor in a great leader of people
to get the job done.
And you hear it with all of hisanecdotes, all his stories and
everything he talks.

The one thing you always got, the one thing we
always talk about here, is thatthe idea of that you know a Dave
Serekin or anybody else wespeak to is that, hey, what's it
like for you to be a mentor?
The notion is, the notion ofthe reality is that mentors need
mentors, right?
So that all these guys that wespeak to they all talk about.
Well, I was mentored by XYZ,like he was mentored by Dan Wood

(01:14:33):
and mentored by Bruce Arena, sonow he takes those elements and
mentors other coaches.
That's really what this is allabout a lot of times, right,
mentors need mentors.

Absolutely, and the part that I was so eager to
hear was how do you manage thesehuge personalities?
How do you connect with folkswho are world-class, trying to
find ways to relate but to alsomake sure that there's a bit of

(01:15:10):
a wall up to let them know thatI am still the coach, I am still
the authority here.
I thought that was a veryinteresting thing.

I thought that was a great moment and you know
talking about David Beckhampulling aside a young player and
having a coach like you know, aplayer coach, even, you know
someone who can handle the guyson his own team and empowering
those people to do that rightand to do the right thing.
So I thought that was a greatmoment for sure.

So just an incredible conversation.
I feel fortunate that we hadthe opportunity to spend time
with Dave today and andobviously wish him the best of
luck going forward with all ofhis future endeavors.
On behalf of Tushar Saxena,larry Shea and me, larry Samuels
, thank you again for joiningthis episode of no Wrong Choices

(01:15:58):
.
If, after listening, you'vethought of someone who could be
a great guest, please let usknow by sending us a note via
the contact page of our websiteat NoWrongChoicescom.
While there, please be sure tocheck out our blog and explore
other great episodes.
While signing up to become amember of our community.
You can also follow us onLinkedIn, facebook, instagram,

(01:16:19):
youtube Threads and X.
Tiktok is up and content hasbegun rolling out.
We'll be back with new episodesin early February, leading in
with a group of highlyaccomplished women, a CEO, super
doctor and Broadway productionstage manager for some very
popular shows.
In advance of that, alwaysremember there are no wrong

(01:16:40):
choices on the road to success,only opportunities, because we
learn from every experience.

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