June 2, 2025 • 47 mins
In this heartfelt episode of No Wrong Choices, we sit down with Rick and Jane Howe to explore their journey after the devastating loss of their infant son, Stevie, to sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS). They share how, in the face of unimaginable tragedy, they turned their grief into action — creating national awareness campaigns, pioneering educational efforts, and driving change that cut SIDS deaths in half.
Through humor, candor, and raw honesty, Rick and Jane reveal how they found strength in each other, mobilized thousands of volunteers, and ultimately helped save thousands of babies’ lives. Their story is a testament to the power of resilience, community, and the belief that even the most personal pain can lead to a profound and lasting impact.
Whether you’ve faced loss, adversity, or simply want to learn how purpose can emerge from heartbreak, this conversation is both moving and inspiring.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jane Howe (00:03):
Nobody's prepared for this, these little babies.
They just die in their sleepand we know more about it now
than we did, you know, 30 yearsago when our baby died, but it's
still a diagnosis of nothing.
The phone rang like close tomidnight.
We answered the phone.
It was a lawyer fromGuadalajara and he says I hear
(00:25):
that you would like to adopt ababy.
Rick Howe (00:28):
That little Ricky Howe saved our lives.
Jane Howe (00:30):
Yeah, he was wonderful.
Rick Howe (00:35):
We had probably 6,000 volunteers nationwide.
Wow.
We recruited Lloyd Bridges, whohad lost a baby to SIDS, as our
national spokesman and got himto do a PSA.
We recruited Bozo the Clown asour national spokesman.
Talk about how in the world isBozo the Clown talking about
(00:58):
SIDS?
Well, guess what?
It worked and it got peopletalking worked and it got people
talking.
Jane Howe (01:11):
We spent a long time following the research and
meeting the people who weredoing the research and trying to
help fundraise to make surethat there was an awareness out
there.
It kept us strong.
It kept us stronger.
It kept us alive us stronger,it kept us alive.
(01:32):
If tragedy comes into your lifeand you have the ability and
the opportunity to make thingsbetter for other people, you
have to do it.
You just have to.
Larry Samuels (01:38):
Hello and welcome to no Wrong Choices.
I'm Larry Samuels and I'll bejoined by Larry Shea in just a
moment.
Today's episode is a little bitdifferent from what we usually
do.
Instead of exploring a careerpath or sharing a very powerful
personal journey story from Rickand Jane Howe that was shaped
by their experience with SIDS,it's a story of turning tragedy
(02:00):
into purpose, healing and impact.
Before we begin, please be sureto take a moment to like,
follow or subscribe to the showwherever you're listening right
now.
Let's get started Now.
Joining no Wrong Choices areRick and Jane Howe.
Rick is one of my favoritepeople from within the business
of media space and I feel like Iknow Jane from the countless
(02:23):
photos that Rick posts on socialmedia.
So, jane, I feel like I knowyou already.
Welcome to my life in a moreformal fashion.
Rick Howe (02:31):
Thank you, glad to be here Happy to be here.
Larry Samuels (02:33):
so thank you both for joining us.
Today we're going to explore avery personal and consequential
journey from Rick and Jane'slives that had a deep and
lasting impact upon them andcountless others their
experience with SIDS.
Thank you both for trusting uswith what is obviously a very
personal and heartfelt story.
Rick Howe (02:55):
Well, the last time we did this on any kind of
camera had to have been, well,my good heaven, in 1987.
Jane Howe (03:04):
On the Phil Donahue show.
Rick Howe (03:06):
Or John Rivers.
We were actually on her show,and that was all in 86 and 87.
So I can't even count back thatfar, but that was the last
century.
Larry Samuels (03:15):
That was the last century, and I'm guessing that
this is going to be a whole loteasier and more comfortable than
confronting Phil Donahue andJoan Rivers.
Rick Howe (03:25):
Joan Rivers was a piece of work.
Phil Donahue was pretty easy,but the show was an interesting
experience.
Larry Samuels (03:31):
I had a chance to watch the clip, as did Larry,
and that seemed pretty intense.
Rick Howe (03:36):
It was Well, and the audience had a lot of SIDS
parents in it, so that's wherethe camera was panning around
picking up all those people.
Larry Samuels (03:43):
Well, I promise the two of us will have a
lighter touch.
I can make you that promise,all right, all right.
So, rick and Jane, before weget into your journey story and
how SIDS impacted your life, Ithink it would be helpful for
everyone for you to just share alittle bit about what SIDS is.
Jane Howe (04:03):
Well, this is our personal story, so I'm going to
tell you about it from apersonal perspective.
SIDS is not anything I everworried about.
I never even thought.
I'm not sure I even knew aboutit, but Rick and I were high
school sweethearts and we gotmarried and we were married for
a long time.
It's time to start a family andyou know, looking at biological
(04:25):
clocks and all that kind ofstuff and as it turns out, it
was not an easy thing for us toget pregnant and have a family
seat of turn.
And he was full-term, he was ahealthy bouncy baby boy.
We named him Stephen andeverything was fine until it
(04:58):
wasn't, I guess, when Steviedied.
One thing I want to make sure tosay here is that in the world
of SIDS, when it comes tomarried couples, there's a big
divorce rate.
It seems like either this kindof a tragedy in your lifetime
makes you stronger or pulls youapart.
Well, it made Rick and Istronger, and what we decided to
do was to get active.
(05:19):
I think that most people whovolunteer for any particular
charity that's connected to amedical tragedy do it because
the tragedy has affected themthemselves, and so in this case,
even though we didn't know awhole lot about SIDS.
We educated ourselves rapidlyand I'll tell you what, just in
(05:41):
our situation, because SIDScan't be pre-diagnosed, it's a
diagnosis upon autopsy and thenwe found out about the
difference between a coroner anda medical examiner and what
happens to the tissue samples.
It was horrible and it made usstronger.
(06:01):
It made us stronger In myparticular opinion about us.
We took that tragedy and weused it to move forwards, not
backwards.
I think a lot of people who areaffected by trauma in their
lives let it tear them down.
We hope to make it build us upand I think, in our particular
(06:22):
situation, us up.
And I think in our particularsituation, given the, it's
almost like back then, thetrauma about block grant money
getting turned off and put backinto the state and then, one by
one, the state SIDSorganizations got closed down.
It was our job to make surethat all this stuff got put back
into place, because parents whohave lost a child, grandparents
(06:44):
who have lost their grandchild,need help.
They need help, they needsupport and, as a medical, well,
first of all, it's still, Ithink, number three in terms of
lives lost infant children.
It was number one when we lostStevie, but the money needs to
be there for research.
The money needs to be there forresearch, the money needs to be
(07:04):
there for support of parents,and we spent a long time
following the research andmeeting the people who were
doing the research and trying tohelp fundraise to make sure
that there was an awareness outthere.
It kept us strong, it kept usstronger, it kept us alive, it
kept us basically moving forwardinstead of backwards.
Larry Samuels (07:28):
Just to make sure that everybody listening really
understands what we're talkingabout SIDS sudden infant death
syndrome.
Can you define for us what thatis?
Jane Howe (07:42):
Here's what I'm going to say, and not a whole lot has
changed.
It is a diagnosis.
After the fact, sids deaths gointo the statistical column.
After autopsy there is a.
I guess in families there's agenetic component that if you've
had one SIDS death in yourfamily your chances of having
another one are greater.
(08:02):
But really and truly, mostly ithappens to a baby while they're
sleeping and nobody's preparedfor this.
These little babies, they justdie in their sleep and we know
more about it now than we did,you know, 30 years ago when our
baby died.
But it's still a diagnosis ofnothing.
They can't find anything wrong.
Rick Howe (08:24):
I think the official word is something diagnosis of
nothing.
They didn't find anything wrong.
I think the official word issomething diagnosis of exclusion
.
They've excluded all otherreasons why the baby might have
died and if there isn't anything, it's infant death syndrome.
Larry Shea (08:35):
Wow, Rick and Jane.
This is Larry Shea.
Thank you for sharing thisstory.
It obviously deserves a lot ofattention and I want to thank
you for sharing it with us.
Take us back to the beginning.
Did anybody talk about SIDS atall when you had the baby, or
was it just after the fact?
Rick Howe (08:51):
People didn't talk about SIDS.
It was like people didn't talkabout cancer.
You know the big C.
You didn't mention it.
Stevie died, jane and I wrote apublic service announcement and
company I worked with, showtime, produced it, paid for it, even
licensed some music behindannouncement.
And a company I worked with,showtime, produced it, paid for
it, even licensed some musicbehind it and it was beautiful
and heartbreaking and it didn'twork at all.
(09:14):
And so after the fact we did afocus group study and those
parents didn't know that theywere coming in to talk about
SIDS.
They thought they were comingin to talk about things that
happen to babies, just broadlyright Diseases and falling out
of the crib and the cat jumpingin the bed and all the old wives
tales, all the old foolishfables.
(09:35):
And I wanted to show theseparents storyboards for a PSA.
And we went around the room.
It was a one-hour session, Ithink we went 45 minutes in and
nobody mentioned SIDS.
So I sent a note in to themoderator and I said listen, you
got to bring up SIDS, we got toshow the storyboards.
So he said to the group, andthese were parents, all parents
(09:59):
of newborns one to four months.
Okay, which is sort of the peakof the curve of Sid's incidents
and he said well, what aboutsudden infant death syndrome, or
SIDS?
Everybody in the room pushedback from the table.
If there had been a thermometerin the room, the temperature
would have dropped 10 degrees.
Everybody knew someone, or knewof someone, who'd lost a baby,
(10:25):
but nobody would mention itSince you couldn't do anything
about it.
It was terrifying.
The pediatricians didn't eventalk about it.
No, there wasn't a thing youcould do.
So that taught us that if wewanted to get people to talk
about SIDS, we needed to get tothem another way.
Larry Samuels (10:45):
What did you know about SIDS before your tragedy?
Jane Howe (10:49):
Basically nothing, and I'll go even beyond that.
Rick and I had been married fora while.
We were financially stable.
We knew our marriage was stable.
We thought, okay, let's have ababy now.
And we were totally shocked andsurprised.
We thought we were the perfectparents to have a little baby
(11:13):
when Stevie died.
Oh my God.
It was so what.
I got mad at God.
I definitely got mad at God.
And what do you want us to do?
And I think that's part of ouractivism was that we felt that
we had to do something to makesure that people were aware of
this.
Rick Howe (11:31):
In that year, which Stevie was born in 84, died in
85, two in a thousand babieslive births died, and so back
then that was about 7,000 babiesa year were SIDS deaths,
depending on where you lived inthe country.
There were a lot of people, andwe found when we lived in New
(11:54):
Jersey, that there was in fact asupport group, part of an
organization, the National SIDSFoundation, and their job was to
run sort of monthly meetingsfor parents who'd lost babies to
SIDS, because we all hadsimilar, almost identical
experiences actually, and we allhad things that we couldn't
(12:17):
talk about in public, that noone wanted to hear, because no
one wanted to talk about it.
Jane Howe (12:25):
Because there was no way to prevent it.
Rick Howe (12:27):
Right, right.
So we talked about it in themeetings and I just remember
sitting in one meeting andsometimes I had to reach into
the back of my brain and bringout a little squirmy thing that
I hadn't thought about.
Yeah, because somebody broughtup something and I felt that
adding my part to that storywould help.
Larry Shea (12:48):
How difficult was that to open up about it?
Did you open up about it toeach other and the group, or did
you just realize that theawareness was so important that
you had to open up to a largergroup and bring awareness to
this?
Jane Howe (13:04):
Well in terms of meeting up with others.
You have to remember that thisis a diagnosis upon autopsy.
There's no warning, it justhappens, and I carried a lot of
guilt.
I couldn't understand why we,the perfect parents who had
prepared so well to have a baby,bring a baby into our lives,
(13:29):
how quick this possibly happenedto us.
And even now, I honestly feelthat somehow, if tragedy strikes
your life, if tragedy comesinto your life and you have the
ability and the opportunity tomake things better for other
people, you have to do it.
(13:50):
You just have to, and I thinkRick and I jumped right into
that with both feet and reallyand truly, it gave us something
to do other than think aboutourselves.
Rick Howe (14:00):
We actually use the phrase and you said something
close to that.
We actually used the phrase andyou said something close to
that.
If you can do it you must do it.
Yeah, if you can, you must youknow.
And we realized that Jane wasan organizer and she ran the
state group in New Jersey.
She's real good at meetings andminutes and all that annoying
(14:20):
stuff Me I talk for a living.
So I was okay doing thosemeetings.
But then we got involved on anational level and started
figuring out how we couldactually make it something that
people would talk about and putsome pressure on the medical
establishment to get researchdone.
Larry Samuels (14:43):
So I want to get a look into your lives at this
point in time.
So, were you in your late 20s,early 30s at this moment in time
, or beyond that?
Rick Howe (14:56):
We were both 35 when Okay.
So you're both 35 Actually 34when Stevie was born, 35 when he
died.
Larry Samuels (15:02):
Got it.
So you're 35 and, rick, you'reworking at Showtime at that
point in time, correct In NewYork?
Yep, jane, were you aprofessional as well.
Jane Howe (15:11):
I'd been a teacher all my life.
At that point in time, I was avolunteer at our local
environmental center, but I wasnot getting paid.
I was doing a lot of work, butI wasn't getting paid, Of course
you were getting paid as a mom,but prior to that she was
teaching at Bruce Springsteen'shigh school.
Rick Howe (15:32):
Oh wait a minute In Freehold New.
Larry Samuels (15:34):
Jersey.
Now you're making it personalfor me as the biggest Bruce
Springsteen fan that I know.
Jane Howe (15:40):
I have taught agriculture all my life.
I can tell you anything youwant to know about growing a
beautiful tomato.
Larry Samuels (15:48):
Very nice.
So you're in your mid-30s andthis tragedy strikes and I'm
sure that you're lost, you'reconfused, you're scared, you're
upset All the emotions that weregoing on that moment.
How long was it in betweentragedy striking and being able
(16:10):
to create a sense of purposefrom this and to create some
sort of meaning and a path foryourselves?
Rick Howe (16:18):
Well, the folks at Showtime, Jane and I, probably
the predominant emotion we hadis we were angry.
Larry Shea (16:27):
Yeah.
Rick Howe (16:27):
Yeah, white heart angry.
We decided aggression wasbetter than depression.
Jane Howe (16:33):
Yep.
Rick Howe (16:34):
The folks at Showtime picked up on that.
They produced our spot.
The PR people at Showtime gotus on the Phil Donahue show of
all things, which was aninteresting experience, and then
the Joan Rivers show.
After that, when she had a talkshow and four-year audience.
That was the last time that Janand I sat and talked about this
(16:55):
in public.
Wow, we'd had privateconversations, but that was the
last time we did in public.
But then we did somethingextraordinarily important in
public.
But then we did somethingextraordinarily important.
Stevie died on October 22nd andwe decided we could not be
around the family my family andJanie's family.
We just couldn't be there atChristmas.
Just could not be there atChristmas.
Jane Howe (17:19):
So Think Debbie Downer.
Rick Howe (17:21):
Yeah, just couldn't deal with everybody's comments.
Larry Samuels (17:26):
There's no way to know what I mean.
It's unimaginable.
Rick Howe (17:30):
Two classic things.
After Stevie died, my parentscame up to stay with us for a
while and my dad, sitting thereon the couch, came up and he
said can you give me somethingto do?
I said go mow the lawn.
Said can you give me somethingto do?
I said go, mow the lawn.
And then shortly after that Iwas at a trade industry
conference and a friend came upto me and I can't believe he
(17:53):
actually said this, but I'llnever forget it.
He said yeah, I know how youfeel.
I lost my dog last week.
Oh wow, are you kidding me?
But I can't.
People don't know what to say.
Do they Right?
No, kidding me, but I can't.
People don't know what to say.
Do they Right?
No, you don't say it.
Very often they have nothing tosay.
They have no context when itcomes to a parent losing a child
.
So we decided we were going toget away for Christmas and we
(18:17):
had a little bit of experiencegoing to Mexico, and right after
that was the earthquake inMexico City, where a lot of the
hospitals pancaked, the mothersdied and there were babies.
Jane Howe (18:33):
So we were having a miserable time that Christmas in
Mexico, not knowing that Mexicohad the highest birth rate in
the entire global community.
Rick Howe (18:43):
Babies everywhere.
Jane Howe (18:44):
Babies everywhere, babies everywhere this
earthquake happened.
There were a lot of orphans, sowe actually went to the local.
I can't believe we did this.
We were so naive.
We went to the local embassy.
We talked to the people in theembassy about these babies who
might need parents because wewere parents who were looking
(19:06):
for a baby and they said, well,you know, we have an orphanage
system here.
We don't really do this, but weknow this person, who women
find him and if they want toplace a baby and so, to make a
long story short, if youremember, hands Across America,
I do long story short if youremember Hands Across America.
(19:27):
That night both of my sisterswere in our house in New Jersey
because we were going to go toPrinceton and hold hands across
America and the phone rang likeclose to midnight.
We answered the phone.
It was a lawyer fromGuadalajara and he says I hear
that you would like to adopt ababy.
And we said yeah, yeah.
And one thing led to another.
(19:50):
There was a whole lot ofserendipity involved and we
adopted our Ricky Howe.
He was born on September 24thand we were down there waiting
for him to be born.
Rick Howe (20:04):
I'm going to embarrass you for a minute we
were down there waiting.
Stevie had died previousOctober, ricky was born
September 24th and Jane got hermilk back.
Jane Howe (20:15):
Oh yeah, I got my milk supply back.
Rick Howe (20:20):
The human body.
Jane Howe (20:22):
We actually took this as a sign from.
Larry Samuels (20:25):
God.
And this is a year after Steviehad passed away Eleven months.
Jane Howe (20:30):
I woke up one morning and I looked brushing my teeth
I'm like what's that on my shirt?
And I got my milk supply back.
So I called La Leche League andI said, well, what's going on?
And they said, oh, it happensall the time.
Go out and get a pump and buildup your supply.
Wow.
Larry Samuels (20:46):
Yeah.
Jane Howe (20:48):
It was at home.
People were like are you crazy?
You're going to give your moneyto an old Mexican lawyer?
What are you?
Rick Howe (20:56):
nuts.
We stayed at a little casita ina village outside of
Guadalajara about two monthsbecause you couldn't begin the
adoption process in Mexico.
Until the baby was born we gotreferrals from friends and
physicians was born, we gotreferrals from friends and
(21:16):
physicians we went to theMexican consulate in New York
City to get all those documentsstamped and authenticated.
So when Stevie was born, wewere in a tiny little hotel.
Oh my heavens.
When Ricky was born Wow, wewere at a tiny little hotel in
Guadalajara.
I think you had him in his armswithin a couple hours before he
was born.
Wow, we were at a tiny littlehotel in Guadalajara.
I think you had him in his armswithin a couple hours before he
(21:37):
was born.
Jane Howe (21:37):
Yeah, I had him right away.
Rick Howe (21:39):
We hopped in the car , we went down to the village
and spent the next two months onMexican baby time.
Jane Howe (21:45):
And I would like to say this adoption all by itself,
no matter where you are, butespecially in this country,
there's a whole lot of thingsthat a lot of places where you
can fall down for a number ofdifferent reasons, but I think
the main reason is that weweren't afraid.
We had so much experience withinfertility and if we had to
(22:08):
wait, maybe to get pregnantagain, for the next baby to come
around.
And here there's, I call it,this whole world full of babies
that needed parents, and we werethere.
We were parents that wereperfectly willing and able to
bring in a new child into ourfamily, and it worked out.
Rick Howe (22:25):
That little Ricky Howe saved our lives.
Jane Howe (22:27):
Yeah, he was wonderful.
Larry Samuels (22:30):
Well as somebody who is adopted or was adopted, I
certainly have great admirationand respect for everything you
did, and I was very lucky in mylife as well.
Jane Howe (22:40):
Well, we came to the conclusion.
I still actually believe thiswith all my heart is that
families come together in somany different ways.
Rick Howe (22:49):
So there's, something there, yeah, for sure.
Larry Shea (22:52):
I have to ask while this process is going on
obviously a super important timeyou're putting your family back
together and finding this loveand this Mexican baby time, as
it were.
Are you still in the back ofyour mind, or maybe even having
open conversations about theawareness factor, or did you
(23:12):
just put professional andeverything on hold to take that
time that you needed, or wereyou still talking about it?
Jane Howe (23:20):
Awareness about SIDS.
Larry Shea (23:21):
Correct.
Jane Howe (23:22):
Yeah, no, it never went away Right.
Rick Howe (23:24):
And here is where the story takes an interesting
turn.
After we did that publicservice announcement that was so
perfectly recorded andperfectly written and completely
turned people off, and then werealized that you needed to come
at it a different way.
We saw that a SIDS organizationin Australia had ripped off Red
(23:46):
Nose Day from England.
England Red Nose Day was comicrelief where you'd put on a red
nose, you had to buy it and youwould do it for a good cause.
They did National Red Nose Dayfor SIDS in Australia and it
took us a while to kind offigure out what was going on
there.
And it occurred to us that theway you got people to talk about
(24:07):
SIDS was to kind of come aroundthe back of the head and you
got them to get a red nose andto talk about stopping SIDS
before they really understoodwhat they were doing.
And then they developed theawareness themselves at their
own pace as to what they weredoing.
So we ran from our living room anational awareness campaign for
(24:32):
Red Nose Day USA.
We had probably 6,000volunteers nationwide.
We recruited Lloyd Bridges, whohad lost a baby to SIDS, as our
national spokesman and got himto do a PSA.
We recruited Bozo the Clown asour national smoke clown and he
(24:54):
was on our posters and again,talk about how in the world is
Bozo the Clown talking aboutSIDS?
Well, guess what?
It worked and it got peopletalking.
It ran for about three years.
Did all the nationalpromotional jazz that you would
do?
And what happened was peoplestarted talking and at the same
time, there had been researchthat was done.
Jane Howe (25:17):
It started in England , but it was corroborated in
Australia.
Rick Howe (25:21):
And prior to this time, my parents, jane's parents
, and all the nurses and all thegrandparents said you put a
baby down to sleep and put thebaby on the tummy, because if
the baby throws up he's notgoing to choke.
That's what we all did.
And in England they did a studyof babies on their backs and a
magical thing the SIDS rate wascut in half.
(25:44):
Wow, just from that.
Jane Howe (25:46):
And that happened in Australia.
And we were down there and theysaid you've got to do this in
the United States and theAmerican Medical Association
said said you've got to do thisin the United States and the
American Medical Associationsaid no, we've got to replicate
their data.
You can't do that right now.
So we just how long was thatgoing to take?
Larry Samuels (26:01):
Oh, another 10-year study Wow.
Jane Howe (26:03):
You know what it was.
The study was one thing, butthey had to change all the way
they taught doctors and nurses.
They had to change all themedical books, all the medical
text, if they were going to sayit's not stomach to sleep
anymore, it's back to sleep.
It was just an enormous,enormous expense for them by way
of how they educate doctors andnurses.
(26:24):
So we just did it.
Rick Howe (26:27):
For the third year of the campaign.
It ran 91, 92, 93, 94.
I went to a Walgreens boardmeeting with Bozo the Clown at
the invitation of the chairmanof Walgreens, who was the Sid's
grandparent.
But he wasn't at that meetingso I went into the meeting,
without the support of thechairman, with Bozo in Chicago.
(26:49):
Now just got to tell you youhaven't lived until you've seen
a bunch of very senior corporateexecutives turning into little
children when Bozo's walkingaround going.
Larry Samuels (27:01):
Did he make balloon animals?
That's great.
Rick Howe (27:05):
But the net result was Walgreens not only published
a booklet called Back to SleepReducing the Risk for SIDS, they
distributed it at their stores.
We had our red noses.
We had a red nose for $2 and abadge that said I'm too chicken
to wear a red nose, but therewas a 50 cent fine, so you had
(27:27):
to pay $2.50.
And we had a nose that would goon the grill of your car.
Walgreens sold them nationwidein 1999, and that was the first
time that the word got out aboutputting babies on their backs
to sleep.
Yep, and what was the impact?
In 1993, we lost about 7,000babies.
(27:49):
By 1995, we lost 3,500.
Wow, cut it in half.
Incredible.
And the issue I mean justunderstand, this isn't a
vaccination or something thattakes a long time.
You just put the babies ontheir backs and the results were
instantaneous.
And then the American Academyof Pediatrics said, yep, okay,
(28:11):
it's all right.
And the AMA said, yep, okay,it's all right.
And all of a sudden even thenurses said it took a while with
the grandmothers I think.
But even the nurses said thebaby's not our baby.
It's remarkable.
So it had an instant impact.
Larry Samuels (28:26):
So I'm curious, when you were at Showtime, as
all of this stuff was developing, when you were at Showtime, as
all of this stuff was developing, did you make a decision to
walk away from Showtime topursue this full time?
Rick Howe (28:40):
No, no, no.
As a matter of fact, theenergy level was high.
The president of Showtime wasTony Cox.
He supported our work,supported my work.
At Showtime we had a terrificstaff.
And just an interestinganecdote of this in early
(29:05):
September 86, I'm going to theoffice waiting for the phone to
ring because Ricky could havebeen born at any time after
early September.
I'm sitting in the officestaring at the phone and my
people said for Christ's sake,will you get out of here?
We got this, so we packed upand we went to Mexico.
The Showtime people were hugelysupportive Corporately.
They were part of Viacomcorporately and all my friends
(29:34):
there were unbelievablysupportive of our work.
Amazing, how did you becausethis is important for any kind
of mobilization how were youable to reach Lloyd Bridges,
reach Bozo the Clown?
How were you able to, obviously, to get them on board.
Lloyd had a very personalconnection to the story, but how
were you able to reach them andconvince them that you guys
were going to make a difference?
(29:55):
Actually, I think Larry wouldn'tunderstand that I'm a real
asshole
Larry Samuels (30:03):
If Rick wants something, he will find a way to
get it.
Rick Howe (30:05):
He heard that Lloyd was a Sid's grandparent.
So I flew out to LA, met intheir little house with Lloyd
and his wife Dorothy, who hecalled the general, and so I
went through my pitch and I saidwe'd like you to do a public
service announcement wearing ared nose and he goes, I'm not
(30:30):
doing that.
Dorothy said one word.
She said Lloyd and Larry Harmonwas the original, one of the
original Bozos and I looked uphis agent and he put me in
contact with Larry and I went toLarry's apartment in New York
which was filled, of course,with Bozo tchotchkes and we got
(30:50):
Larry and Bozo to be ournational spokes clown and,
frankly, once we had those two,all of the PR stuff, we got on
the Today Show with the weatherguy Willard Scott.
Jane Howe (31:03):
Willard Scott, Willard Scott sure.
Rick Howe (31:05):
Wearing a red nose and holding up the poster.
Janie got involved with thelocal clowns.
Nationwide Yep.
Jane Howe (31:13):
I became a clown.
I was Mary Jane from Maryland.
Rick Howe (31:17):
And you think herding cats is hard.
You should try herding a clown.
You know they have their ownthing.
But guess what?
They got right behind theprogram and they supported us in
local events.
And what we had in New Jerseywas the New Jersey chapter of
the National SIDS Foundation.
But then there was also theMaryland chapter and the Florida
(31:40):
chapter and individual citiesand a half dozen chapters in
California.
And all of those chapters andall of those volunteers were the
people who made that campaign,Red Nose Day work.
They got local support, theysold the red noses and it's not
the kind of thing that wouldhave worked in Manhattan, but
boy, in Omaha it was a gangbust.
Larry Samuels (32:02):
That's incredible .
Rick Howe (32:03):
Just a different kind of feel to the place,
although it did pretty good inLA, but New York was a little
snotty for that.
Sorry, larry.
Larry Samuels (32:10):
that's all right, I grew up in Buffalo.
I'm half and half at this point, I guess.
Jane Howe (32:17):
Well, we did talk to other.
We did look.
There was a lot of peoplewho've lost kids to SIDS but
they don't make it public.
When we did find Lloyd Bridgesand his family and we talked to
with Beau Bridges and JeffBridges and they told us that I
guess the Sid's baby was inbetween Bo and Jeff.
(32:37):
Bo said I had a normalchildhood but when Jeff was born
my mom would chew his food forhim if she thought it would save
his life.
And then he turned into thewild one because he'd been
brought up very strictlycontrolled from a safety point
of view.
You know, and it affectsfamilies that way.
(33:00):
When our Stevie died, my sisterhow devastating and really and
truly the whole governmentbehind it, you know losing the.
I guess John Kennedy createdindividual state departments
that got folded into block grantmoney and once the states were
(33:20):
able to do what they wanted withthe block grant money, they
closed those SIDS programs down,which sounds like something
we're going through today.
Larry Samuels (33:29):
Yeah, before we get into that and that's
critical and we will talk aboutthat in a moment I'm curious
about momentum and longevity.
After you go through thisincredible effort and have such
wonderful success in terms ofcreating awareness and bringing
numbers down, et cetera, etcetera.
I'm curious were thereregulations that were put in
(33:51):
place?
Were there foundations thatwere created?
Were there funds that werecreated to continue the work
that you guys had done?
Rick Howe (34:00):
There was, frankly, not anywhere close to enough
research money put into SIDS,because in the scale of how many
people die from cancer and thisand that and the other thing,
sids is pretty far down the listand we still don't know what
causes it, by the way.
So it's hard, hard research.
There's a new story that comesout every couple of years.
(34:21):
Somebody said it was thebrainstem and somebody said this
kind of chemical in your system, that kind of chemical, you
don't know.
Okay, but the research iscontinuing, independent
primarily of the government, andyou'll you're going to ask the
question a little bit about whatthe government was doing.
In our specific case, when wegot the numbers down with red
(34:42):
nose day, we said, well, numberone, we were doing that as
volunteers, so we ran out ofmoney, so I had to go back to
work.
But you know, after four yearsof that we said, okay, we're
done, we've got a family, and wesort of stepped away from the
whole thing and worked onraising a kid.
Jane Howe (35:00):
Yeah, I would like to add to that that instead of
living in the past then forStevie, we lived in the present
for our son, ricky.
He was old enough that he knewwhat the time divide was on
activities, and me personally, Ihad to get over my guilt.
I thought, you know, when we gotRicky it was my second chance
(35:22):
and I had to devote myself tohim and I did the best that I
could, and at one point I had tolet go of Stevie and embrace
Ricky, but on the other hand, goof Stevie and embrace Ricky but
on the other hand, we didn'treally protect Ricky?
Rick Howe (35:38):
No, we didn't.
If he wanted to practicewalking across the top of a
fence, he could do it.
He was pretty athletic and boy,we dragged that kid all over
the world.
Jane Howe (35:48):
Yeah, we did.
Rick Howe (35:49):
All of our SIDS-related.
Jane Howe (35:50):
Yeah, we were not.
I agree with that we were not.
I agree with that.
We were not overprotective withhim.
I think he benefited from that.
Yeah sure.
Larry Shea (35:58):
I just have to ask if, at this point in the journey
, when you're stepping away,you've brought awareness, you've
done what you can do to acertain extent and you wanted to
get back to your family.
I don't even know how to askthis, but did you pat yourself
on the back for bringing thisawareness?
I mean, it's amazing what youwere able to accomplish.
Jane Howe (36:17):
There must have been some reflection of we did a damn
good thing here and now theSIDS organization itself had
gone through a lot of changes.
I remember standing in theentry room into the main
speaker's auditorium thinkinglike, oh, what am I doing here,
(36:40):
you know?
And somebody walked up to meand they said God, you're Jane
Howe.
And I said yeah, and they saiddo you know how many babies
lives you saved?
And that was the first timethat I actually thought about it
that way and that somebody elsethought of it that way too.
Rick Howe (36:57):
We can reasonably assume that the process of
putting the babies on theirbacks to sleep would have come
along eventually.
What we think we did, with allthe people and all the
volunteers and everything else,was we accelerated that.
Jane Howe (37:11):
Yeah.
Rick Howe (37:11):
Sure did so arguably .
3,500 babies a year, timeshowever many years Decades.
Yeah, we're not backpatters.
We were too busy living ourlives with our little Ricky boy.
Again, he saved us.
Jane Howe (37:27):
Yep, he made us a family again.
Larry Samuels (37:30):
That's incredible .
It's funny.
You think about success withinour journeys and I imagine what
could be a greater success thanwhat you just described?
Rick Howe (37:42):
It wasn't just us, we just were the catalyst.
I will tell you the one thingwhat we did with Red Nose Day
was a direct outprop of the workthat I did at Showtime.
I ran national promotions atShowtime.
I ran national promotions atShowtime.
I knew how to do that shitRight.
Larry Samuels (37:56):
So where are we with SIDS today, in 2025?
Has your impact endured?
Rick Howe (38:03):
Well, the numbers have stayed down.
However, within ethnicpopulations, notably
African-American and NativeAmerican populations, the
numbers are creeping back up.
The SIDS rates are creeping backup and part of that is
attributed to the fact thatthey're not getting the
instructions about putting thebabies on the back and also not
(38:26):
covering the babies withblankets, and there's a handful
of fine-tuned things there, butthe real issue is putting the
babies on the back and theEunice Shriver Institute at the
NICHD started taking over theeducation for back to sleep and
publishing the brochures,getting that information out,
(38:47):
training the doctors, trainingthe hospitals, working with
local organizations and justkeeping the push up until just a
few days ago, when we'rerecording this, when the
administration the Trumpadministration cut the funding
down for the national institutes, cut the staffing down at NIH,
(39:08):
and everything we've read in thelast couple of days is that all
the support work for SIDS isgoing to go away.
There will still be somevolunteer organizations, like
the one that we worked with,which still exists, but with
$50,000 a year budgets nothowever much the NIH has and
(39:28):
hospitals doing research buthaving to get their own money to
do that.
But the federal government'ssupport to save these babies may
dry up.
Certainly they're trying to dryit up.
Larry Samuels (39:41):
Wow, has progress been made in terms of research
and trying to figure out whatSIDS really is Like?
Have we learned more over thepast?
You know, bunch of years.
Jane Howe (39:55):
The prominent piece of evidence appears to be the
infant brainstem.
The spotlight on the infantbrainstem has to do with damage
from toxins, from a thirdtrimester infection they think
it's Staphylococcus that theinfant brainstem is damaged and
(40:17):
it can no longer make a decisionbetween heart or lung, which is
one of the reasons why I guess,putting the baby on his back
instead of his stomach, thatinfants that have this.
Rick Howe (40:28):
Predilection almost right.
Jane Howe (40:30):
Yeah that have this damage to their brainstem do not
arouse when they're breathingin carbon monoxide instead of
oxygen.
So if you take their face awayfrom any kind of soft bedding
and turn them on their backs, Iguess a lot of people will say
well then they're going toaspirate if they regurgitate.
Well, it turns out thatbreathing in carbon monoxide was
(40:53):
more detrimental to thesebabies that had this damage to
their infant brainstem, whichcontrolled autonomic function.
Rick Howe (41:01):
What we know so far in the research is different
theories as to why it happens,not a lick of information about
how to stop it.
Nothing Got it.
There's no vaccination ofinformation about how to stop it
.
Nothing Got it.
There's no vaccination.
There's no way to prevent it.
Parents are still going to getup and check on their babies,
yeah, night long.
We used to have a wholebusiness of baby monitors.
(41:25):
Monitors, yeah, and they sold alot of baby monitors and none
of them did any good Because,frankly, if the baby is going to
stop, the baby's gonna stopbreathing and there's not a
blessed thing in the world youcan do.
Larry Shea (41:37):
Yeah, obviously a lot more work to be done in this
area and tons tons more losingfunding does not help, you know.
No, it's just tragic.
I want to just say I think oneof the most remarkable things
about your story and yourjourney both of you is something
that you stated at the verybeginning, which is, when
something happens like this, itusually ends with divorce and
(41:59):
you blaming each other and youtearing each other apart and
this is the exact opposite ofthat of the strength that you
gave each other to build eachother up and it's just admirable
from my perspective up, andit's just admirable from my
perspective.
I want to ask you about advicefor anybody navigating any kind
of tragedy with a baby, whetherit be SIDS or something else of
(42:20):
this nature.
How can they learn from yourstory and be as strong as you
were through this journey?
Rick Howe (42:26):
Don't be afraid to talk about it.
Find other people who've gonethrough what you've gone through
, and my own personal view don'tgive in to depression.
Fight back, get angry.
Larry Samuels (42:39):
Make a difference .
That's great advice and foranybody out there listening who
would like to make a difference.
Where can they go?
Can they donate?
How can people get involved?
Rick Howe (42:50):
There is an organization they can simply
Google First Candle.
That is the name of theorganization that we worked with
.
That has grown up.
They've expanded their work alittle bit past SIDS to other
infant death issues, but FirstCandle is now going to take
vastly more importance if thegovernment is backing away.
(43:10):
So go to First Candle I thinkit would be firstcandleorg.
They are there to listen andthey are there to help and maybe
, more importantly, give yousomething that you can do.
Larry Samuels (43:22):
That's great advice and everybody out there,
make sure you check that out.
And Rick and Jane, this hasbeen such an incredible story.
And Rick and Jane, this hasbeen such an incredible story.
It's an inspiration in so manydifferent ways, as Larry just
articulated, to see two peoplecome together to become stronger
through something like this.
(43:43):
It's something that all of uscan learn from.
I'm so blown away by this story.
Thank you for bringing this tous.
Is there anything else you'dlike to share before we part?
Rick Howe (43:56):
I think when you have a partner for life, that's
what makes it all work.
Larry Samuels (44:01):
Truer words have never been spoken.
What great advice from Rick.
Larry Shea, what are yourtakeaways from this conversation
?
Larry Shea (44:09):
Yeah, you know we talk about adversity a lot on
this program, you know, butnever quite like this.
This is way beyond like lifehanding you lemons and let's go
make some lemonade, obviously,but just the strength, the
mobilization, the determinationto make a real difference.
I mean it's truly remarkableand a remarkable story.
(44:32):
But I think the true story isthem just defying the odds to
stay together.
You know, usually these thingstear people apart and it's just.
This is flipping the table over, you know, and saying you know
what's been done in the pastisn't good enough and we're
going to do something about it.
And it's just so admirable.
(44:52):
It's a story of facingincredible adversity and I just
want to say this family is trulyremarkable and I'm inspired by
them.
It was really touching.
Larry Samuels (45:02):
Absolutely.
You know we came up with anidea for a show, you know, a
long time ago.
That was tied to learning from,you know, our experiences and
learning from the differentthings that happened to us along
the way, and it was all basedin the belief that every single
thing that we go through, everysingle thing that we do, we
learn from and in some way itmakes us better, it makes us
(45:25):
stronger, it makes us morecapable and, you know,
unfortunately for the Howefamily, they had to go through
tragedy in this case.
But you know, all of thatreally holds true here and it's
truly incredible and inspiringto see what they were able to do
with what was thrown at them,to ignite, in a way, a
(45:48):
foundation, to create such animpact on a cause that was taboo
, that wasn't talked about, thatwas a secret that was hiding in
everybody's back room in a way,to bring that to the forefront
in the way that they did and touse what they went through in
this way.
(46:10):
We haven't really broached thissubject before.
We haven't talked to people whohave gone through something
like this before.
I learned so much, I was soincredibly inspired and you know
I have a great deal of respectfor Rick.
I've known him for a long timeand in a way, this, I think,
deepened that if, if, if it wasat possible, I just, I was blown
(46:33):
away and we have to pat them onthe back.
Larry Shea (46:36):
If they're not going to do it themselves, we
should, because they savedthousands of lives, countless
thousands of lives, and I justthank them.
I thank them for sharing theirstory and I thank them for what
they've done.
Larry Samuels (46:49):
I do too.
Rick and Jane, thank you somuch for trusting us with this
story.
As we touched on at the end ofthe conversation.
If anybody out there would liketo learn more or get involved,
the website that you can visitis firstcandleorg, and they are
set up to really tackle SIDS andto tackle this very delicate
(47:12):
and critically important topicand issue.
So, Rick and Jane Howe, thankyou so much for joining this
episode of no Wrong Choices.
We also thank you for joiningus.
If this episode made you thinkof somebody who could be a great
guest, please let us know byreaching out via the contact
page of our website atnorWrongChoicescom.
(47:33):
While you're there, you cancheck out our blog for
highlights and extra insightsfrom our conversations, and
don't forget to follow us onsocial media.
We're on LinkedIn, Facebook,Instagram Threads, YouTube and X
.
On behalf of Larry Shea and me,Larry Samuels, thank you again
for joining us.
We'll be back with anotherinspiring episode next week.
Nobody's prepared for this, these little babies.
They just die in their sleepand we know more about it now
than we did, you know, 30 yearsago when our baby died, but it's
still a diagnosis of nothing.
The phone rang like close tomidnight.
We answered the phone.
It was a lawyer fromGuadalajara and he says I hear
(00:25):
that you would like to adopt ababy.
Rick Howe (00:28):
That little Ricky Howe saved our lives.
Jane Howe (00:30):
Yeah, he was wonderful.
Rick Howe (00:35):
We had probably 6,000 volunteers nationwide.
Wow.
We recruited Lloyd Bridges, whohad lost a baby to SIDS, as our
national spokesman and got himto do a PSA.
We recruited Bozo the Clown asour national spokesman.
Talk about how in the world isBozo the Clown talking about
(00:58):
SIDS?
Well, guess what?
It worked and it got peopletalking worked and it got people
talking.
Jane Howe (01:11):
We spent a long time following the research and
meeting the people who weredoing the research and trying to
help fundraise to make surethat there was an awareness out
there.
It kept us strong.
It kept us stronger.
It kept us alive us stronger,it kept us alive.
(01:32):
If tragedy comes into your lifeand you have the ability and
the opportunity to make thingsbetter for other people, you
have to do it.
You just have to.
Larry Samuels (01:38):
Hello and welcome to no Wrong Choices.
I'm Larry Samuels and I'll bejoined by Larry Shea in just a
moment.
Today's episode is a little bitdifferent from what we usually
do.
Instead of exploring a careerpath or sharing a very powerful
personal journey story from Rickand Jane Howe that was shaped
by their experience with SIDS,it's a story of turning tragedy
(02:00):
into purpose, healing and impact.
Before we begin, please be sureto take a moment to like,
follow or subscribe to the showwherever you're listening right
now.
Let's get started Now.
Joining no Wrong Choices areRick and Jane Howe.
Rick is one of my favoritepeople from within the business
of media space and I feel like Iknow Jane from the countless
(02:23):
photos that Rick posts on socialmedia.
So, jane, I feel like I knowyou already.
Welcome to my life in a moreformal fashion.
Rick Howe (02:31):
Thank you, glad to be here Happy to be here.
Larry Samuels (02:33):
so thank you both for joining us.
Today we're going to explore avery personal and consequential
journey from Rick and Jane'slives that had a deep and
lasting impact upon them andcountless others their
experience with SIDS.
Thank you both for trusting uswith what is obviously a very
personal and heartfelt story.
Rick Howe (02:55):
Well, the last time we did this on any kind of
camera had to have been, well,my good heaven, in 1987.
Jane Howe (03:04):
On the Phil Donahue show.
Rick Howe (03:06):
Or John Rivers.
We were actually on her show,and that was all in 86 and 87.
So I can't even count back thatfar, but that was the last
century.
Larry Samuels (03:15):
That was the last century, and I'm guessing that
this is going to be a whole loteasier and more comfortable than
confronting Phil Donahue andJoan Rivers.
Rick Howe (03:25):
Joan Rivers was a piece of work.
Phil Donahue was pretty easy,but the show was an interesting
experience.
Larry Samuels (03:31):
I had a chance to watch the clip, as did Larry,
and that seemed pretty intense.
Rick Howe (03:36):
It was Well, and the audience had a lot of SIDS
parents in it, so that's wherethe camera was panning around
picking up all those people.
Larry Samuels (03:43):
Well, I promise the two of us will have a
lighter touch.
I can make you that promise,all right, all right.
So, rick and Jane, before weget into your journey story and
how SIDS impacted your life, Ithink it would be helpful for
everyone for you to just share alittle bit about what SIDS is.
Jane Howe (04:03):
Well, this is our personal story, so I'm going to
tell you about it from apersonal perspective.
SIDS is not anything I everworried about.
I never even thought.
I'm not sure I even knew aboutit, but Rick and I were high
school sweethearts and we gotmarried and we were married for
a long time.
It's time to start a family andyou know, looking at biological
(04:25):
clocks and all that kind ofstuff and as it turns out, it
was not an easy thing for us toget pregnant and have a family
seat of turn.
And he was full-term, he was ahealthy bouncy baby boy.
We named him Stephen andeverything was fine until it
(04:58):
wasn't, I guess, when Steviedied.
One thing I want to make sure tosay here is that in the world
of SIDS, when it comes tomarried couples, there's a big
divorce rate.
It seems like either this kindof a tragedy in your lifetime
makes you stronger or pulls youapart.
Well, it made Rick and Istronger, and what we decided to
do was to get active.
(05:19):
I think that most people whovolunteer for any particular
charity that's connected to amedical tragedy do it because
the tragedy has affected themthemselves, and so in this case,
even though we didn't know awhole lot about SIDS.
We educated ourselves rapidlyand I'll tell you what, just in
(05:41):
our situation, because SIDScan't be pre-diagnosed, it's a
diagnosis upon autopsy and thenwe found out about the
difference between a coroner anda medical examiner and what
happens to the tissue samples.
It was horrible and it made usstronger.
(06:01):
It made us stronger In myparticular opinion about us.
We took that tragedy and weused it to move forwards, not
backwards.
I think a lot of people who areaffected by trauma in their
lives let it tear them down.
We hope to make it build us upand I think, in our particular
(06:22):
situation, us up.
And I think in our particularsituation, given the, it's
almost like back then, thetrauma about block grant money
getting turned off and put backinto the state and then, one by
one, the state SIDSorganizations got closed down.
It was our job to make surethat all this stuff got put back
into place, because parents whohave lost a child, grandparents
(06:44):
who have lost their grandchild,need help.
They need help, they needsupport and, as a medical, well,
first of all, it's still, Ithink, number three in terms of
lives lost infant children.
It was number one when we lostStevie, but the money needs to
be there for research.
The money needs to be there forresearch, the money needs to be
(07:04):
there for support of parents,and we spent a long time
following the research andmeeting the people who were
doing the research and trying tohelp fundraise to make sure
that there was an awareness outthere.
It kept us strong, it kept usstronger, it kept us alive, it
kept us basically moving forwardinstead of backwards.
Larry Samuels (07:28):
Just to make sure that everybody listening really
understands what we're talkingabout SIDS sudden infant death
syndrome.
Can you define for us what thatis?
Jane Howe (07:42):
Here's what I'm going to say, and not a whole lot has
changed.
It is a diagnosis.
After the fact, sids deaths gointo the statistical column.
After autopsy there is a.
I guess in families there's agenetic component that if you've
had one SIDS death in yourfamily your chances of having
another one are greater.
(08:02):
But really and truly, mostly ithappens to a baby while they're
sleeping and nobody's preparedfor this.
These little babies, they justdie in their sleep and we know
more about it now than we did,you know, 30 years ago when our
baby died.
But it's still a diagnosis ofnothing.
They can't find anything wrong.
Rick Howe (08:24):
I think the official word is something diagnosis of
nothing.
They didn't find anything wrong.
I think the official word issomething diagnosis of exclusion
.
They've excluded all otherreasons why the baby might have
died and if there isn't anything, it's infant death syndrome.
Larry Shea (08:35):
Wow, Rick and Jane.
This is Larry Shea.
Thank you for sharing thisstory.
It obviously deserves a lot ofattention and I want to thank
you for sharing it with us.
Take us back to the beginning.
Did anybody talk about SIDS atall when you had the baby, or
was it just after the fact?
Rick Howe (08:51):
People didn't talk about SIDS.
It was like people didn't talkabout cancer.
You know the big C.
You didn't mention it.
Stevie died, jane and I wrote apublic service announcement and
company I worked with, showtime, produced it, paid for it, even
licensed some music behindannouncement.
And a company I worked with,showtime, produced it, paid for
it, even licensed some musicbehind it and it was beautiful
and heartbreaking and it didn'twork at all.
(09:14):
And so after the fact we did afocus group study and those
parents didn't know that theywere coming in to talk about
SIDS.
They thought they were comingin to talk about things that
happen to babies, just broadlyright Diseases and falling out
of the crib and the cat jumpingin the bed and all the old wives
tales, all the old foolishfables.
(09:35):
And I wanted to show theseparents storyboards for a PSA.
And we went around the room.
It was a one-hour session, Ithink we went 45 minutes in and
nobody mentioned SIDS.
So I sent a note in to themoderator and I said listen, you
got to bring up SIDS, we got toshow the storyboards.
So he said to the group, andthese were parents, all parents
(09:59):
of newborns one to four months.
Okay, which is sort of the peakof the curve of Sid's incidents
and he said well, what aboutsudden infant death syndrome, or
SIDS?
Everybody in the room pushedback from the table.
If there had been a thermometerin the room, the temperature
would have dropped 10 degrees.
Everybody knew someone, or knewof someone, who'd lost a baby,
(10:25):
but nobody would mention itSince you couldn't do anything
about it.
It was terrifying.
The pediatricians didn't eventalk about it.
No, there wasn't a thing youcould do.
So that taught us that if wewanted to get people to talk
about SIDS, we needed to get tothem another way.
Larry Samuels (10:45):
What did you know about SIDS before your tragedy?
Jane Howe (10:49):
Basically nothing, and I'll go even beyond that.
Rick and I had been married fora while.
We were financially stable.
We knew our marriage was stable.
We thought, okay, let's have ababy now.
And we were totally shocked andsurprised.
We thought we were the perfectparents to have a little baby
(11:13):
when Stevie died.
Oh my God.
It was so what.
I got mad at God.
I definitely got mad at God.
And what do you want us to do?
And I think that's part of ouractivism was that we felt that
we had to do something to makesure that people were aware of
this.
Rick Howe (11:31):
In that year, which Stevie was born in 84, died in
85, two in a thousand babieslive births died, and so back
then that was about 7,000 babiesa year were SIDS deaths,
depending on where you lived inthe country.
There were a lot of people, andwe found when we lived in New
(11:54):
Jersey, that there was in fact asupport group, part of an
organization, the National SIDSFoundation, and their job was to
run sort of monthly meetingsfor parents who'd lost babies to
SIDS, because we all hadsimilar, almost identical
experiences actually, and we allhad things that we couldn't
(12:17):
talk about in public, that noone wanted to hear, because no
one wanted to talk about it.
Jane Howe (12:25):
Because there was no way to prevent it.
Rick Howe (12:27):
Right, right.
So we talked about it in themeetings and I just remember
sitting in one meeting andsometimes I had to reach into
the back of my brain and bringout a little squirmy thing that
I hadn't thought about.
Yeah, because somebody broughtup something and I felt that
adding my part to that storywould help.
Larry Shea (12:48):
How difficult was that to open up about it?
Did you open up about it toeach other and the group, or did
you just realize that theawareness was so important that
you had to open up to a largergroup and bring awareness to
this?
Jane Howe (13:04):
Well in terms of meeting up with others.
You have to remember that thisis a diagnosis upon autopsy.
There's no warning, it justhappens, and I carried a lot of
guilt.
I couldn't understand why we,the perfect parents who had
prepared so well to have a baby,bring a baby into our lives,
(13:29):
how quick this possibly happenedto us.
And even now, I honestly feelthat somehow, if tragedy strikes
your life, if tragedy comesinto your life and you have the
ability and the opportunity tomake things better for other
people, you have to do it.
(13:50):
You just have to, and I thinkRick and I jumped right into
that with both feet and reallyand truly, it gave us something
to do other than think aboutourselves.
Rick Howe (14:00):
We actually use the phrase and you said something
close to that.
We actually used the phrase andyou said something close to
that.
If you can do it you must do it.
Yeah, if you can, you must youknow.
And we realized that Jane wasan organizer and she ran the
state group in New Jersey.
She's real good at meetings andminutes and all that annoying
(14:20):
stuff Me I talk for a living.
So I was okay doing thosemeetings.
But then we got involved on anational level and started
figuring out how we couldactually make it something that
people would talk about and putsome pressure on the medical
establishment to get researchdone.
Larry Samuels (14:43):
So I want to get a look into your lives at this
point in time.
So, were you in your late 20s,early 30s at this moment in time
, or beyond that?
Rick Howe (14:56):
We were both 35 when Okay.
So you're both 35 Actually 34when Stevie was born, 35 when he
died.
Larry Samuels (15:02):
Got it.
So you're 35 and, rick, you'reworking at Showtime at that
point in time, correct In NewYork?
Yep, jane, were you aprofessional as well.
Jane Howe (15:11):
I'd been a teacher all my life.
At that point in time, I was avolunteer at our local
environmental center, but I wasnot getting paid.
I was doing a lot of work, butI wasn't getting paid, Of course
you were getting paid as a mom,but prior to that she was
teaching at Bruce Springsteen'shigh school.
Rick Howe (15:32):
Oh wait a minute In Freehold New.
Larry Samuels (15:34):
Jersey.
Now you're making it personalfor me as the biggest Bruce
Springsteen fan that I know.
Jane Howe (15:40):
I have taught agriculture all my life.
I can tell you anything youwant to know about growing a
beautiful tomato.
Larry Samuels (15:48):
Very nice.
So you're in your mid-30s andthis tragedy strikes and I'm
sure that you're lost, you'reconfused, you're scared, you're
upset All the emotions that weregoing on that moment.
How long was it in betweentragedy striking and being able
(16:10):
to create a sense of purposefrom this and to create some
sort of meaning and a path foryourselves?
Rick Howe (16:18):
Well, the folks at Showtime, Jane and I, probably
the predominant emotion we hadis we were angry.
Larry Shea (16:27):
Yeah.
Rick Howe (16:27):
Yeah, white heart angry.
We decided aggression wasbetter than depression.
Jane Howe (16:33):
Yep.
Rick Howe (16:34):
The folks at Showtime picked up on that.
They produced our spot.
The PR people at Showtime gotus on the Phil Donahue show of
all things, which was aninteresting experience, and then
the Joan Rivers show.
After that, when she had a talkshow and four-year audience.
That was the last time that Janand I sat and talked about this
(16:55):
in public.
Wow, we'd had privateconversations, but that was the
last time we did in public.
But then we did somethingextraordinarily important in
public.
But then we did somethingextraordinarily important.
Stevie died on October 22nd andwe decided we could not be
around the family my family andJanie's family.
We just couldn't be there atChristmas.
Just could not be there atChristmas.
Jane Howe (17:19):
So Think Debbie Downer.
Rick Howe (17:21):
Yeah, just couldn't deal with everybody's comments.
Larry Samuels (17:26):
There's no way to know what I mean.
It's unimaginable.
Rick Howe (17:30):
Two classic things.
After Stevie died, my parentscame up to stay with us for a
while and my dad, sitting thereon the couch, came up and he
said can you give me somethingto do?
I said go mow the lawn.
Said can you give me somethingto do?
I said go, mow the lawn.
And then shortly after that Iwas at a trade industry
conference and a friend came upto me and I can't believe he
(17:53):
actually said this, but I'llnever forget it.
He said yeah, I know how youfeel.
I lost my dog last week.
Oh wow, are you kidding me?
But I can't.
People don't know what to say.
Do they Right?
No, kidding me, but I can't.
People don't know what to say.
Do they Right?
No, you don't say it.
Very often they have nothing tosay.
They have no context when itcomes to a parent losing a child
.
So we decided we were going toget away for Christmas and we
(18:17):
had a little bit of experiencegoing to Mexico, and right after
that was the earthquake inMexico City, where a lot of the
hospitals pancaked, the mothersdied and there were babies.
Jane Howe (18:33):
So we were having a miserable time that Christmas in
Mexico, not knowing that Mexicohad the highest birth rate in
the entire global community.
Rick Howe (18:43):
Babies everywhere.
Jane Howe (18:44):
Babies everywhere, babies everywhere this
earthquake happened.
There were a lot of orphans, sowe actually went to the local.
I can't believe we did this.
We were so naive.
We went to the local embassy.
We talked to the people in theembassy about these babies who
might need parents because wewere parents who were looking
(19:06):
for a baby and they said, well,you know, we have an orphanage
system here.
We don't really do this, but weknow this person, who women
find him and if they want toplace a baby and so, to make a
long story short, if youremember, hands Across America,
I do long story short if youremember Hands Across America.
(19:27):
That night both of my sisterswere in our house in New Jersey
because we were going to go toPrinceton and hold hands across
America and the phone rang likeclose to midnight.
We answered the phone.
It was a lawyer fromGuadalajara and he says I hear
that you would like to adopt ababy.
And we said yeah, yeah.
And one thing led to another.
(19:50):
There was a whole lot ofserendipity involved and we
adopted our Ricky Howe.
He was born on September 24thand we were down there waiting
for him to be born.
Rick Howe (20:04):
I'm going to embarrass you for a minute we
were down there waiting.
Stevie had died previousOctober, ricky was born
September 24th and Jane got hermilk back.
Jane Howe (20:15):
Oh yeah, I got my milk supply back.
Rick Howe (20:20):
The human body.
Jane Howe (20:22):
We actually took this as a sign from.
Larry Samuels (20:25):
God.
And this is a year after Steviehad passed away Eleven months.
Jane Howe (20:30):
I woke up one morning and I looked brushing my teeth
I'm like what's that on my shirt?
And I got my milk supply back.
So I called La Leche League andI said, well, what's going on?
And they said, oh, it happensall the time.
Go out and get a pump and buildup your supply.
Wow.
Larry Samuels (20:46):
Yeah.
Jane Howe (20:48):
It was at home.
People were like are you crazy?
You're going to give your moneyto an old Mexican lawyer?
What are you?
Rick Howe (20:56):
nuts.
We stayed at a little casita ina village outside of
Guadalajara about two monthsbecause you couldn't begin the
adoption process in Mexico.
Until the baby was born we gotreferrals from friends and
physicians was born, we gotreferrals from friends and
(21:16):
physicians we went to theMexican consulate in New York
City to get all those documentsstamped and authenticated.
So when Stevie was born, wewere in a tiny little hotel.
Oh my heavens.
When Ricky was born Wow, wewere at a tiny little hotel in
Guadalajara.
I think you had him in his armswithin a couple hours before he
was born.
Wow, we were at a tiny littlehotel in Guadalajara.
I think you had him in his armswithin a couple hours before he
(21:37):
was born.
Jane Howe (21:37):
Yeah, I had him right away.
Rick Howe (21:39):
We hopped in the car , we went down to the village
and spent the next two months onMexican baby time.
Jane Howe (21:45):
And I would like to say this adoption all by itself,
no matter where you are, butespecially in this country,
there's a whole lot of thingsthat a lot of places where you
can fall down for a number ofdifferent reasons, but I think
the main reason is that weweren't afraid.
We had so much experience withinfertility and if we had to
(22:08):
wait, maybe to get pregnantagain, for the next baby to come
around.
And here there's, I call it,this whole world full of babies
that needed parents, and we werethere.
We were parents that wereperfectly willing and able to
bring in a new child into ourfamily, and it worked out.
Rick Howe (22:25):
That little Ricky Howe saved our lives.
Jane Howe (22:27):
Yeah, he was wonderful.
Larry Samuels (22:30):
Well as somebody who is adopted or was adopted, I
certainly have great admirationand respect for everything you
did, and I was very lucky in mylife as well.
Jane Howe (22:40):
Well, we came to the conclusion.
I still actually believe thiswith all my heart is that
families come together in somany different ways.
Rick Howe (22:49):
So there's, something there, yeah, for sure.
Larry Shea (22:52):
I have to ask while this process is going on
obviously a super important timeyou're putting your family back
together and finding this loveand this Mexican baby time, as
it were.
Are you still in the back ofyour mind, or maybe even having
open conversations about theawareness factor, or did you
(23:12):
just put professional andeverything on hold to take that
time that you needed, or wereyou still talking about it?
Jane Howe (23:20):
Awareness about SIDS.
Larry Shea (23:21):
Correct.
Jane Howe (23:22):
Yeah, no, it never went away Right.
Rick Howe (23:24):
And here is where the story takes an interesting
turn.
After we did that publicservice announcement that was so
perfectly recorded andperfectly written and completely
turned people off, and then werealized that you needed to come
at it a different way.
We saw that a SIDS organizationin Australia had ripped off Red
(23:46):
Nose Day from England.
England Red Nose Day was comicrelief where you'd put on a red
nose, you had to buy it and youwould do it for a good cause.
They did National Red Nose Dayfor SIDS in Australia and it
took us a while to kind offigure out what was going on
there.
And it occurred to us that theway you got people to talk about
(24:07):
SIDS was to kind of come aroundthe back of the head and you
got them to get a red nose andto talk about stopping SIDS
before they really understoodwhat they were doing.
And then they developed theawareness themselves at their
own pace as to what they weredoing.
So we ran from our living room anational awareness campaign for
(24:32):
Red Nose Day USA.
We had probably 6,000volunteers nationwide.
We recruited Lloyd Bridges, whohad lost a baby to SIDS, as our
national spokesman and got himto do a PSA.
We recruited Bozo the Clown asour national smoke clown and he
(24:54):
was on our posters and again,talk about how in the world is
Bozo the Clown talking aboutSIDS?
Well, guess what?
It worked and it got peopletalking.
It ran for about three years.
Did all the nationalpromotional jazz that you would
do?
And what happened was peoplestarted talking and at the same
time, there had been researchthat was done.
Jane Howe (25:17):
It started in England , but it was corroborated in
Australia.
Rick Howe (25:21):
And prior to this time, my parents, jane's parents
, and all the nurses and all thegrandparents said you put a
baby down to sleep and put thebaby on the tummy, because if
the baby throws up he's notgoing to choke.
That's what we all did.
And in England they did a studyof babies on their backs and a
magical thing the SIDS rate wascut in half.
(25:44):
Wow, just from that.
Jane Howe (25:46):
And that happened in Australia.
And we were down there and theysaid you've got to do this in
the United States and theAmerican Medical Association
said said you've got to do thisin the United States and the
American Medical Associationsaid no, we've got to replicate
their data.
You can't do that right now.
So we just how long was thatgoing to take?
Larry Samuels (26:01):
Oh, another 10-year study Wow.
Jane Howe (26:03):
You know what it was.
The study was one thing, butthey had to change all the way
they taught doctors and nurses.
They had to change all themedical books, all the medical
text, if they were going to sayit's not stomach to sleep
anymore, it's back to sleep.
It was just an enormous,enormous expense for them by way
of how they educate doctors andnurses.
(26:24):
So we just did it.
Rick Howe (26:27):
For the third year of the campaign.
It ran 91, 92, 93, 94.
I went to a Walgreens boardmeeting with Bozo the Clown at
the invitation of the chairmanof Walgreens, who was the Sid's
grandparent.
But he wasn't at that meetingso I went into the meeting,
without the support of thechairman, with Bozo in Chicago.
(26:49):
Now just got to tell you youhaven't lived until you've seen
a bunch of very senior corporateexecutives turning into little
children when Bozo's walkingaround going.
Larry Samuels (27:01):
Did he make balloon animals?
That's great.
Rick Howe (27:05):
But the net result was Walgreens not only published
a booklet called Back to SleepReducing the Risk for SIDS, they
distributed it at their stores.
We had our red noses.
We had a red nose for $2 and abadge that said I'm too chicken
to wear a red nose, but therewas a 50 cent fine, so you had
(27:27):
to pay $2.50.
And we had a nose that would goon the grill of your car.
Walgreens sold them nationwidein 1999, and that was the first
time that the word got out aboutputting babies on their backs
to sleep.
Yep, and what was the impact?
In 1993, we lost about 7,000babies.
(27:49):
By 1995, we lost 3,500.
Wow, cut it in half.
Incredible.
And the issue I mean justunderstand, this isn't a
vaccination or something thattakes a long time.
You just put the babies ontheir backs and the results were
instantaneous.
And then the American Academyof Pediatrics said, yep, okay,
(28:11):
it's all right.
And the AMA said, yep, okay,it's all right.
And all of a sudden even thenurses said it took a while with
the grandmothers I think.
But even the nurses said thebaby's not our baby.
It's remarkable.
So it had an instant impact.
Larry Samuels (28:26):
So I'm curious, when you were at Showtime, as
all of this stuff was developing, when you were at Showtime, as
all of this stuff was developing, did you make a decision to
walk away from Showtime topursue this full time?
Rick Howe (28:40):
No, no, no.
As a matter of fact, theenergy level was high.
The president of Showtime wasTony Cox.
He supported our work,supported my work.
At Showtime we had a terrificstaff.
And just an interestinganecdote of this in early
(29:05):
September 86, I'm going to theoffice waiting for the phone to
ring because Ricky could havebeen born at any time after
early September.
I'm sitting in the officestaring at the phone and my
people said for Christ's sake,will you get out of here?
We got this, so we packed upand we went to Mexico.
The Showtime people were hugelysupportive Corporately.
They were part of Viacomcorporately and all my friends
(29:34):
there were unbelievablysupportive of our work.
Amazing, how did you becausethis is important for any kind
of mobilization how were youable to reach Lloyd Bridges,
reach Bozo the Clown?
How were you able to, obviously, to get them on board.
Lloyd had a very personalconnection to the story, but how
were you able to reach them andconvince them that you guys
were going to make a difference?
(29:55):
Actually, I think Larry wouldn'tunderstand that I'm a real
asshole
Larry Samuels (30:03):
If Rick wants something, he will find a way to
get it.
Rick Howe (30:05):
He heard that Lloyd was a Sid's grandparent.
So I flew out to LA, met intheir little house with Lloyd
and his wife Dorothy, who hecalled the general, and so I
went through my pitch and I saidwe'd like you to do a public
service announcement wearing ared nose and he goes, I'm not
(30:30):
doing that.
Dorothy said one word.
She said Lloyd and Larry Harmonwas the original, one of the
original Bozos and I looked uphis agent and he put me in
contact with Larry and I went toLarry's apartment in New York
which was filled, of course,with Bozo tchotchkes and we got
(30:50):
Larry and Bozo to be ournational spokes clown and,
frankly, once we had those two,all of the PR stuff, we got on
the Today Show with the weatherguy Willard Scott.
Jane Howe (31:03):
Willard Scott, Willard Scott sure.
Rick Howe (31:05):
Wearing a red nose and holding up the poster.
Janie got involved with thelocal clowns.
Nationwide Yep.
Jane Howe (31:13):
I became a clown.
I was Mary Jane from Maryland.
Rick Howe (31:17):
And you think herding cats is hard.
You should try herding a clown.
You know they have their ownthing.
But guess what?
They got right behind theprogram and they supported us in
local events.
And what we had in New Jerseywas the New Jersey chapter of
the National SIDS Foundation.
But then there was also theMaryland chapter and the Florida
(31:40):
chapter and individual citiesand a half dozen chapters in
California.
And all of those chapters andall of those volunteers were the
people who made that campaign,Red Nose Day work.
They got local support, theysold the red noses and it's not
the kind of thing that wouldhave worked in Manhattan, but
boy, in Omaha it was a gangbust.
Larry Samuels (32:02):
That's incredible .
Rick Howe (32:03):
Just a different kind of feel to the place,
although it did pretty good inLA, but New York was a little
snotty for that.
Sorry, larry.
Larry Samuels (32:10):
that's all right, I grew up in Buffalo.
I'm half and half at this point, I guess.
Jane Howe (32:17):
Well, we did talk to other.
We did look.
There was a lot of peoplewho've lost kids to SIDS but
they don't make it public.
When we did find Lloyd Bridgesand his family and we talked to
with Beau Bridges and JeffBridges and they told us that I
guess the Sid's baby was inbetween Bo and Jeff.
(32:37):
Bo said I had a normalchildhood but when Jeff was born
my mom would chew his food forhim if she thought it would save
his life.
And then he turned into thewild one because he'd been
brought up very strictlycontrolled from a safety point
of view.
You know, and it affectsfamilies that way.
(33:00):
When our Stevie died, my sisterhow devastating and really and
truly the whole governmentbehind it, you know losing the.
I guess John Kennedy createdindividual state departments
that got folded into block grantmoney and once the states were
(33:20):
able to do what they wanted withthe block grant money, they
closed those SIDS programs down,which sounds like something
we're going through today.
Larry Samuels (33:29):
Yeah, before we get into that and that's
critical and we will talk aboutthat in a moment I'm curious
about momentum and longevity.
After you go through thisincredible effort and have such
wonderful success in terms ofcreating awareness and bringing
numbers down, et cetera, etcetera.
I'm curious were thereregulations that were put in
(33:51):
place?
Were there foundations thatwere created?
Were there funds that werecreated to continue the work
that you guys had done?
Rick Howe (34:00):
There was, frankly, not anywhere close to enough
research money put into SIDS,because in the scale of how many
people die from cancer and thisand that and the other thing,
sids is pretty far down the listand we still don't know what
causes it, by the way.
So it's hard, hard research.
There's a new story that comesout every couple of years.
(34:21):
Somebody said it was thebrainstem and somebody said this
kind of chemical in your system, that kind of chemical, you
don't know.
Okay, but the research iscontinuing, independent
primarily of the government, andyou'll you're going to ask the
question a little bit about whatthe government was doing.
In our specific case, when wegot the numbers down with red
(34:42):
nose day, we said, well, numberone, we were doing that as
volunteers, so we ran out ofmoney, so I had to go back to
work.
But you know, after four yearsof that we said, okay, we're
done, we've got a family, and wesort of stepped away from the
whole thing and worked onraising a kid.
Jane Howe (35:00):
Yeah, I would like to add to that that instead of
living in the past then forStevie, we lived in the present
for our son, ricky.
He was old enough that he knewwhat the time divide was on
activities, and me personally, Ihad to get over my guilt.
I thought, you know, when we gotRicky it was my second chance
(35:22):
and I had to devote myself tohim and I did the best that I
could, and at one point I had tolet go of Stevie and embrace
Ricky, but on the other hand, goof Stevie and embrace Ricky but
on the other hand, we didn'treally protect Ricky?
Rick Howe (35:38):
No, we didn't.
If he wanted to practicewalking across the top of a
fence, he could do it.
He was pretty athletic and boy,we dragged that kid all over
the world.
Jane Howe (35:48):
Yeah, we did.
Rick Howe (35:49):
All of our SIDS-related.
Jane Howe (35:50):
Yeah, we were not.
I agree with that we were not.
I agree with that.
We were not overprotective withhim.
I think he benefited from that.
Yeah sure.
Larry Shea (35:58):
I just have to ask if, at this point in the journey
, when you're stepping away,you've brought awareness, you've
done what you can do to acertain extent and you wanted to
get back to your family.
I don't even know how to askthis, but did you pat yourself
on the back for bringing thisawareness?
I mean, it's amazing what youwere able to accomplish.
Jane Howe (36:17):
There must have been some reflection of we did a damn
good thing here and now theSIDS organization itself had
gone through a lot of changes.
I remember standing in theentry room into the main
speaker's auditorium thinkinglike, oh, what am I doing here,
(36:40):
you know?
And somebody walked up to meand they said God, you're Jane
Howe.
And I said yeah, and they saiddo you know how many babies
lives you saved?
And that was the first timethat I actually thought about it
that way and that somebody elsethought of it that way too.
Rick Howe (36:57):
We can reasonably assume that the process of
putting the babies on theirbacks to sleep would have come
along eventually.
What we think we did, with allthe people and all the
volunteers and everything else,was we accelerated that.
Jane Howe (37:11):
Yeah.
Rick Howe (37:11):
Sure did so arguably .
3,500 babies a year, timeshowever many years Decades.
Yeah, we're not backpatters.
We were too busy living ourlives with our little Ricky boy.
Again, he saved us.
Jane Howe (37:27):
Yep, he made us a family again.
Larry Samuels (37:30):
That's incredible .
It's funny.
You think about success withinour journeys and I imagine what
could be a greater success thanwhat you just described?
Rick Howe (37:42):
It wasn't just us, we just were the catalyst.
I will tell you the one thingwhat we did with Red Nose Day
was a direct outprop of the workthat I did at Showtime.
I ran national promotions atShowtime.
I ran national promotions atShowtime.
I knew how to do that shitRight.
Larry Samuels (37:56):
So where are we with SIDS today, in 2025?
Has your impact endured?
Rick Howe (38:03):
Well, the numbers have stayed down.
However, within ethnicpopulations, notably
African-American and NativeAmerican populations, the
numbers are creeping back up.
The SIDS rates are creeping backup and part of that is
attributed to the fact thatthey're not getting the
instructions about putting thebabies on the back and also not
(38:26):
covering the babies withblankets, and there's a handful
of fine-tuned things there, butthe real issue is putting the
babies on the back and theEunice Shriver Institute at the
NICHD started taking over theeducation for back to sleep and
publishing the brochures,getting that information out,
(38:47):
training the doctors, trainingthe hospitals, working with
local organizations and justkeeping the push up until just a
few days ago, when we'rerecording this, when the
administration the Trumpadministration cut the funding
down for the national institutes, cut the staffing down at NIH,
(39:08):
and everything we've read in thelast couple of days is that all
the support work for SIDS isgoing to go away.
There will still be somevolunteer organizations, like
the one that we worked with,which still exists, but with
$50,000 a year budgets nothowever much the NIH has and
(39:28):
hospitals doing research buthaving to get their own money to
do that.
But the federal government'ssupport to save these babies may
dry up.
Certainly they're trying to dryit up.
Larry Samuels (39:41):
Wow, has progress been made in terms of research
and trying to figure out whatSIDS really is Like?
Have we learned more over thepast?
You know, bunch of years.
Jane Howe (39:55):
The prominent piece of evidence appears to be the
infant brainstem.
The spotlight on the infantbrainstem has to do with damage
from toxins, from a thirdtrimester infection they think
it's Staphylococcus that theinfant brainstem is damaged and
(40:17):
it can no longer make a decisionbetween heart or lung, which is
one of the reasons why I guess,putting the baby on his back
instead of his stomach, thatinfants that have this.
Rick Howe (40:28):
Predilection almost right.
Jane Howe (40:30):
Yeah that have this damage to their brainstem do not
arouse when they're breathingin carbon monoxide instead of
oxygen.
So if you take their face awayfrom any kind of soft bedding
and turn them on their backs, Iguess a lot of people will say
well then they're going toaspirate if they regurgitate.
Well, it turns out thatbreathing in carbon monoxide was
(40:53):
more detrimental to thesebabies that had this damage to
their infant brainstem, whichcontrolled autonomic function.
Rick Howe (41:01):
What we know so far in the research is different
theories as to why it happens,not a lick of information about
how to stop it.
Nothing Got it.
There's no vaccination ofinformation about how to stop it
.
Nothing Got it.
There's no vaccination.
There's no way to prevent it.
Parents are still going to getup and check on their babies,
yeah, night long.
We used to have a wholebusiness of baby monitors.
(41:25):
Monitors, yeah, and they sold alot of baby monitors and none
of them did any good Because,frankly, if the baby is going to
stop, the baby's gonna stopbreathing and there's not a
blessed thing in the world youcan do.
Larry Shea (41:37):
Yeah, obviously a lot more work to be done in this
area and tons tons more losingfunding does not help, you know.
No, it's just tragic.
I want to just say I think oneof the most remarkable things
about your story and yourjourney both of you is something
that you stated at the verybeginning, which is, when
something happens like this, itusually ends with divorce and
(41:59):
you blaming each other and youtearing each other apart and
this is the exact opposite ofthat of the strength that you
gave each other to build eachother up and it's just admirable
from my perspective up, andit's just admirable from my
perspective.
I want to ask you about advicefor anybody navigating any kind
of tragedy with a baby, whetherit be SIDS or something else of
(42:20):
this nature.
How can they learn from yourstory and be as strong as you
were through this journey?
Rick Howe (42:26):
Don't be afraid to talk about it.
Find other people who've gonethrough what you've gone through
, and my own personal view don'tgive in to depression.
Fight back, get angry.
Larry Samuels (42:39):
Make a difference .
That's great advice and foranybody out there listening who
would like to make a difference.
Where can they go?
Can they donate?
How can people get involved?
Rick Howe (42:50):
There is an organization they can simply
Google First Candle.
That is the name of theorganization that we worked with
.
That has grown up.
They've expanded their work alittle bit past SIDS to other
infant death issues, but FirstCandle is now going to take
vastly more importance if thegovernment is backing away.
(43:10):
So go to First Candle I thinkit would be firstcandleorg.
They are there to listen andthey are there to help and maybe
, more importantly, give yousomething that you can do.
Larry Samuels (43:22):
That's great advice and everybody out there,
make sure you check that out.
And Rick and Jane, this hasbeen such an incredible story.
And Rick and Jane, this hasbeen such an incredible story.
It's an inspiration in so manydifferent ways, as Larry just
articulated, to see two peoplecome together to become stronger
through something like this.
(43:43):
It's something that all of uscan learn from.
I'm so blown away by this story.
Thank you for bringing this tous.
Is there anything else you'dlike to share before we part?
Rick Howe (43:56):
I think when you have a partner for life, that's
what makes it all work.
Larry Samuels (44:01):
Truer words have never been spoken.
What great advice from Rick.
Larry Shea, what are yourtakeaways from this conversation
?
Larry Shea (44:09):
Yeah, you know we talk about adversity a lot on
this program, you know, butnever quite like this.
This is way beyond like lifehanding you lemons and let's go
make some lemonade, obviously,but just the strength, the
mobilization, the determinationto make a real difference.
I mean it's truly remarkableand a remarkable story.
(44:32):
But I think the true story isthem just defying the odds to
stay together.
You know, usually these thingstear people apart and it's just.
This is flipping the table over, you know, and saying you know
what's been done in the pastisn't good enough and we're
going to do something about it.
And it's just so admirable.
(44:52):
It's a story of facingincredible adversity and I just
want to say this family is trulyremarkable and I'm inspired by
them.
It was really touching.
Larry Samuels (45:02):
Absolutely.
You know we came up with anidea for a show, you know, a
long time ago.
That was tied to learning from,you know, our experiences and
learning from the differentthings that happened to us along
the way, and it was all basedin the belief that every single
thing that we go through, everysingle thing that we do, we
learn from and in some way itmakes us better, it makes us
(45:25):
stronger, it makes us morecapable and, you know,
unfortunately for the Howefamily, they had to go through
tragedy in this case.
But you know, all of thatreally holds true here and it's
truly incredible and inspiringto see what they were able to do
with what was thrown at them,to ignite, in a way, a
(45:48):
foundation, to create such animpact on a cause that was taboo
, that wasn't talked about, thatwas a secret that was hiding in
everybody's back room in a way,to bring that to the forefront
in the way that they did and touse what they went through in
this way.
(46:10):
We haven't really broached thissubject before.
We haven't talked to people whohave gone through something
like this before.
I learned so much, I was soincredibly inspired and you know
I have a great deal of respectfor Rick.
I've known him for a long timeand in a way, this, I think,
deepened that if, if, if it wasat possible, I just, I was blown
(46:33):
away and we have to pat them onthe back.
Larry Shea (46:36):
If they're not going to do it themselves, we
should, because they savedthousands of lives, countless
thousands of lives, and I justthank them.
I thank them for sharing theirstory and I thank them for what
they've done.
Larry Samuels (46:49):
I do too.
Rick and Jane, thank you somuch for trusting us with this
story.
As we touched on at the end ofthe conversation.
If anybody out there would liketo learn more or get involved,
the website that you can visitis firstcandleorg, and they are
set up to really tackle SIDS andto tackle this very delicate
(47:12):
and critically important topicand issue.
So, Rick and Jane Howe, thankyou so much for joining this
episode of no Wrong Choices.
We also thank you for joiningus.
If this episode made you thinkof somebody who could be a great
guest, please let us know byreaching out via the contact
page of our website atnorWrongChoicescom.
(47:33):
While you're there, you cancheck out our blog for
highlights and extra insightsfrom our conversations, and
don't forget to follow us onsocial media.
We're on LinkedIn, Facebook,Instagram Threads, YouTube and X
.
On behalf of Larry Shea and me,Larry Samuels, thank you again
for joining us.
We'll be back with anotherinspiring episode next week.
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