July 9, 2025 • 34 mins
Stop hiding from those IRS letters. They're not coming to drag you away in handcuffs.
The biggest lie the government ever told you? That tax debt will ruin your life. Here's the brutal truth: 99.9% of people who owe taxes will NEVER see the inside of a jail cell. But they will lose sleep, relationships, and thousands of dollars in penalties because they believe the fear-mongering.
In this no-BS episode, Stoy Hall sits down with Morgan Anderson, EA – a 26-year veteran of tax debt resolution who's seen it all. Morgan destroys the myths that keep you paralyzed and reveals the real playbook the IRS doesn't want you to know.
You'll discover:
- Why Al Capone's case has absolutely nothing to do with your $20K tax bill
- The massive system breakdown that's actually working in your favor right now
- How COVID broke the IRS machine (and what that means for you)
- The single phone call that can stop wage garnishments before they destroy your reputation
- Why your "tax professional" might be setting you up for a $700K disaster
This isn't feel-good fluff. This is war strategy.
Morgan pulls back the curtain on settlement negotiations, payment plans, and when to fight versus when to fold. If you're a business owner drowning in payroll taxes or an individual getting crushed by penalties, this episode could save you decades of financial pain.
The government wants you scared and compliant. Time to flip the script.
Connect with Morgan Anderson:
- Website: https://www.goldenliontaxsolutions.com/
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/morgan-anderson-ea/
- Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/morgan.q.anderson.ea/
Warning: This episode contains explicit tax advice that may cause sudden feelings of empowerment and the urge to finally deal with that pile of IRS notices.
Welcome to the No BS Wealth Podcast with Stoy Hall, your candid guide to financial clarity. In our third year, we're spicing things up by enhancing community ties and bringing you straight, no-fluff financial insights. Connect with us on NoBSWealthPodcast.com, and follow Stoy on social media for the latest episodes and expert discussions. Tune in, join the conversation, and transform your financial journey with us—no BS!
As always we ask you to comment, DM, whatever it takes to have a conversation to help you take the next step in your journey, reach out on any platform!
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DISCLOSURE: Awards and rankings by third parties are not indicative of future performance or client investment success. Past performance does not guarantee future results. All investment strategies carry profit/loss potential and cannot eliminate investment risks. Information discussed may not reflect current positions/recommendations. While believed accurate, Black Mammoth does not guarantee information accuracy. This broadcast is not a solicitation for securities transactions or personalized investment advice. Tax/estate planning information is general - consult professionals for specific situations. Full disclosures at www.blackmammoth.com.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Stoy Hall, CFP® (00:00):
The boogeyman that, that terrible entity that
no one wants to talk about.
The IRS, everyone hates taxes.
We get it.
And when you get that letterthat you're, you know, either
past due on taxes or you justget those random letters in
general, you get that ickyfeeling.
You get that, oh.
Lord, it's all coming down onme.
The world's gonna explode.
But we're here today with MorganAnderson to one tell you that
that's not the case.
(00:20):
There are always a solution.
There's a way out.
There's a way through it all,and I'm really excited to dive
into it today.
Hey everyone.
We know taxes are very complextoday.
We are going to scratch servicea little bit, but later this
year we'll go even deeper.
So without further ado, Morgan,welcome to the show.
Morgan Anderson, EA (00:37):
Thank you so much for having me.
I know people hear what I do andthey cringe.
I actually see like people pullback.
I'm like, wait a minute, wait aminute.
It's not that scary.
Let me, let me take away thatnasty, you know, three headed
monster image that you have inyour head because it's just
something that we have to dealwith.
You've faced tougher challenges.
(00:57):
You can get past this one aswell.
Stoy Hall, CFP® (00:59):
Absolutely.
So before we go into that, giveeveryone a little background
where you're from, how you evengot into it, and then why are
you so focused on the tax debtpiece of it?
Because in the accounting world,with your EA and all the tax up,
there is a hundred differentroutes to go.
Uh, we would really love why thetax debt and then we're gonna
get into it.
Morgan Anderson, EA (01:17):
Okay, so I had no direction at life.
I'll be fully transparent withyou all.
I was 25 years old managing acandle store in Boulder,
Colorado.
Bored outta my mind, like I'm anumbers person.
I am.
I'm a logic thinker.
Like I love working throughproblems and doing retail.
I was like, there has to be moreto my purpose.
(01:39):
So I answered an ad for anadministrative assistant.
Out of the Boulder Daily camera,and I ended up interviewing with
a company that was on theforefront of this whole tax debt
resolution corner of the world.
And I tripped into a world byaccident that I loved.
I could be a problem solver.
(01:59):
I got to help people when theywere scared, they didn't know
what to do.
And man, I put my head down andjust threw.
All of my efforts into learninghow to be excellent in dealing
with tax debt and helping peoplepsychologically work through it,
you know, because I, I woulddeal with people where the first
things out of their mouth, mouthwhen they talk to me was, am I
(02:21):
gonna go to jail?
And that is a very real fearthat people have deeply
ingrained.
And it's because the IRS and thestate tax agencies have fostered
that, right, which we can talkon later.
But I became inspired by theresults I could get for these
people and the, the physicaland, and vocal relief I could
(02:42):
hear talking to them from ourfirst conversation to our fifth,
to our 10th.
To the final solution andcalling them and saying, okay,
we got it done.
Here are the terms.
You're no longer gonna have tobe afraid of those nasty
letters.
Bank account, levy, or orgarnish, wage garnishment
threats like you are free.
Just stick to these guidelinesmoving forward.
(03:04):
I'm always here for you, but Idon't ever wanna hear from you
again.
Right?
Like that.
That felt good to me and that'swhat I've based my whole career
on, and that's why after doingthis for almost 26 years, I
still love what I do.
Stoy Hall, CFP® (03:20):
I mean, that's amazing.
One, because doing something solong you still love what you do
is just simply amazing.
Mm-hmm.
However, I'm sure there is sucha, it's ever moving our tax
code, so I'm sure that thingschange and adapt, so it keeps it
all fresh.
But let's hit upon thosemisnomers then.
Yeah.
One people go to jail.
Two, how big is this fine.
Do they levy all those threats?
Walk us through the actual truethings that happened from those.
Morgan Anderson, EA (03:43):
Okay.
Keep that list.
Because I get into everyquestion you ask me.
So the first one, will I go tojail?
It is true that people do.
We're talking about such aninfant decimal percentage of
people who owe past due taxes.
Your common business owner,individual who owes income tax,
(04:05):
you are not the target.
They're targeting people likethink about what Al Capone went
to jail for.
How did they actually get him?
They got him on tax, right?
That's what he went to jail for.
That's the level of people thatthey're looking for.
They're looking for humantraffickers, and they tie it to
taxation.
They're looking at drug lords.
(04:26):
They're tying it to taxation.
You're looking at people whoare.
Evader people who create these,these tax return strategies
where they're lying on taxreturns over and over and over
again for their clients, thoseare the people that are getting
in trouble in going to jail.
It's not our common neighborsor, or anybody really in our
(04:49):
community.
These are high ticket peoplethat they're targeting.
Stoy Hall, CFP® (04:53):
It's a really common thing to let everyone
know is IRS in general.
Even with audits, it's the sameway.
Like it's such a minusculeamount that you as a random
person will get it.
They truly are going for the bigticket items.
That's where the money is.
And to your co to what you'retalking about.
Al Capone, they wanted to gethim from the gang perspective.
(05:13):
They wanted to against exactlycrime.
It just so happened to be their.
Weigh in was through taxes, so.
Mm-hmm.
I love that you hit upon that.
Okay.
What about fines and fees andall of those things that come
along with it?
Um, what about those?
Morgan Anderson, EA (05:26):
Yeah, they exist.
There's no two ways around it.
I'm not gonna tiptoe around it.
If you owe a tax debt, you startaccruing additional fees with
penalties and interest from themoment the tax was due moving
forward.
So.
If you have a tax debtsituation, know that every month
(05:46):
you push off dealing with it.
You're letting that balance dogrow.
So use it as an inspiration tobe proactive.
Stoy Hall, CFP® (05:55):
Absolutely.
And then you said garnishingloving le weight wages about
words today.
Hello.
Good us through.
Are those threats, do theyhappen?
What's going on there?
Morgan Anderson, EA (06:06):
Yeah.
Now I, I will tell you sinceCOVID.
Before COVID, the IRS was apretty well-oiled machine.
They had all their divisions anddepartments in place.
The tech system was in supportof it.
So you knew when you had a debtwithin 60 days, you'd start
getting your first notices.
(06:28):
And I was just doing someresearch on this about the
efficiencies of the IRS in 2018versus what they reported in
2024.
And you can tell that COVID andshutting down our government for
six months broke the internalsystems.
So.
The hard part is yes, you owethe debt and it continues to
(06:50):
grow with penalties andinterest, but they haven't been
on top of their game withcollecting, and it has lulled a
lot of taxpayers who have a taxconsequence into this kind of
quiet slumber.
They're like, well, I'm notreally hearing from the IRS
other than these ankle biternotices.
Their computers spitting out.
So I'm not even having tax liensright now being filed.
(07:11):
They're not calling.
They're knocking on my, notknocking on my door.
I can just kinda let this debtbe and focus on other things.
And I'm here to tell you, youdon't wanna do that.
If you're proactive withhandling it.
Not only are you in control, youdon't have to go into that
reactionary mode of, oh my gosh,all of a sudden they do issue a
(07:33):
bank levy and.
You go into your bank accountand your funds that were$2,000
yesterday are now zero.
'cause it will happen.
But if you ignore it, and thenthe computer system does put you
into that active collectionaspect.
Let's say you're working for acompany, you've been with them
for 10 years, right?
(07:54):
And you had some missteps onyour annual tax returns and you
owe$3,000 to the IRS.
It happens more often than youwould imagine, and it's okay,
but you gotta be proactivebecause if not, they can issue a
wage garnishment to youremployer.
And imagine walking into the HRdepartment, right?
You've been with them for 10years, you're a well-known
(08:16):
employee, they love you.
You get awards and you have toanswer to your HR person about
this wage garnishment noticethat they got.
It's embarrassing.
You know, and, and it happens.
But if you are proactive, I'mtelling you, if you call them
and say, Hey, I've got an issue,I need to deal with it.
Or if you get a tax debtresolution expert involved who
(08:39):
is contacting them on yourbehalf, you take away that
unknown, right?
So you're more in control.
You are driving the dialoguefrom that moment forward, and
you can take action to preventit.
So instead of hiding and shyingaway from dealing with it, be
proactive because that's how youprotect yourself from all those
(09:00):
things from happening.
Stoy Hall, CFP® (09:02):
All right, so we talked about kind of the
misnomers, true, false, thosethings in there.
Mm-hmm.
Now let's dive into, really,there's two components.
There's the individual and thenthere's like the business owner.
Mm-hmm.
So let's start with theindividual.
What is the common occurrencethat you see of one, the debt
and how it, how it occurred, orwhy they're in this situation
and by the time they get to you,where are they at emotionally?
Morgan Anderson, EA (09:24):
Great questions.
You know, there are a thousanddifferent reasons why somebody
would have an income tax debt.
I.
There really is errors withcompleting the W four.
When you're a W2 employeeworking for a company, you fill
out the W four and it signalshow much income tax you have
withheld from your pay Well, forthe last four or five years.
(09:45):
The W four is really misleadingbecause you could say, I'm, I'm
married.
There's two of us, right?
We're filing joint and we eachonly have this one job.
But if you're in the higher tierof payroll level, just noting
that won't withhold enough tax.
I can't tell you how many peopleare like, wait a minute, I
(10:06):
claimed married filing two.
You know, and it didn't withholdenough tax.
We've had a lot of clients cometo us with that.
And we've had a lot of clientscome to us where a parent has
passed away and they'veinherited money, and instead of
getting with a CPA or aninvestor and talking about what
to do to shelter those moniesfrom being taxable, they do
(10:27):
something with it that convertsit into being taxable income.
We've had people who are busyrunning a trade.
Like a tile, a floor and tiledperson, they're just head down.
I'm earning money, I'm makingmoney, and I'm spending it, and
I'm making money and I'mspending it.
And at the end of the year, theylook at it and go, oh my gosh,
with my self-employed tax, I nowowe$20,000 for 2024.
(10:52):
It just happens for a variety ofreasons.
Typically when somebody reachesout to me, the first thing I
hear is, am I gonna go to jail?
Which we already addressed.
But the other thing that I hearis, well, I don't want you to
think bad of me.
And that breaks my heart becausefirst and foremost, everybody,
you, me, everybody listening isdoing their very best.
(11:15):
If you accrue a debt, it's noneof my business and I'm not gonna
judge you over it.
Don't feel ashamed.
Don't feel ashamed, or be tooego driven to call somebody and
say, Hey, I've got a problem andI think you can help me with it,
because that's gonna keep youcaught in that debt cycle.
Right.
So the first thing all of usshould know is we're not experts
(11:37):
at everything.
We can't be, I mean, I hirepeople to watch my kids and
teach my kids in school becauseGod knows that is not my cup of
tea.
It's okay.
As a business owner, you may beexcellent at laying.
Laying tile, right, or doinglandscaping, cutting down trees.
(11:57):
That's your area of expertise.
And be okay with other peoplehaving expertise in areas that
isn't yours and that it's okayfor you to lean on them.
Because they do know whatthey're doing.
They do know how to solve thisproblem that you're coming to
you with.
So yeah, that's for individuals.
That's typically the, thepsychology, when they call me,
(12:19):
there's this like sheepishfeeling almost.
Don't ever feel that way whenyou call us.
Stoy Hall, CFP® (12:25):
Yeah.
And I wanna double down on theother experts, like having
professionals in, in your courtand having a team.
Mm-hmm.
Again, I, I couldn't raise mychildren and teach them because
Morgan Anderson, EA (12:35):
I love that you laughed at that.
Yeah, just, that's not my, mything,
Stoy Hall, CFP® (12:40):
just not my strong suit.
No patience.
But a lot of people go toTurboTax or go to those tax
layers and truly don't just hirea CPA.
And I know it's, you know, it'sgetting more expenses and stuff
like that for your individual,but I, I press people still to
do it for two reasons.
One,'cause you don't know whatthe hell you're doing.
Right.
It's just a game and you'rerelying on a software and
(13:00):
software's wrong.
Sometimes two.
If you have the right one, nowthey're helping with that
liability piece of it.
If they make a mistake or not,they have to fix it.
They're on the hook for it.
And that's really where you wantto be because then if an audit
comes up, or if these situationscome up, you have someone in
your court that already knowstheir situation that's been in
(13:20):
it, and they can make thatadjustment a lot faster than you
can.
And when you get those randomnotices that are spit out, you
can just like say, Hey.
What is this?
And they'll go, oh, I'll takecare of it.
And it's taken care of.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's that relief and, and havingthat feeling of someone has your
back in those situations to meis worth the$400 or$600 or
whatever the filing fee isaround your area or whoever you
(13:42):
hire.
So really look into that becausethat's worth it more than just
the true filing fee.
I know some of those are free,but.
Having that backing, just when,when people get it, I can see
the relief off their shouldersjust in case that 0.00125%
chance of getting audited comesup.
Right.
Morgan Anderson, EA (14:01):
I completely agree and if, if I,
could I take it a step further,if you are self-employed or you
have financial situations thatchange throughout the year, it
is so worth it to call your taxprofessional and say, Hey, can I
sit down with you for an hour?
We've had some things change.
If you're a business owner andyou're self-employed, you're,
(14:21):
you have flow through income,get with your tax professional
quarterly, because if you areonly getting with them the
following spring.
So we're in 2025.
If you get with them in March of26 and say, okay, here's all my
records for last year, and theysay, oh my gosh.
Well, based on everything youdid, you owe$35,000 of income
(14:43):
tax.
You are talking about historicaldata.
At that point, you can't go backand change and make a pivot
halfway throughout the year tominimize that tax consequence.
So I cannot encourage peopleenough.
Don't just have a once a yearrelationship with your tax
professional.
Get with them quarterly.
Stoy Hall, CFP® (15:04):
Yes, tax planning at least twice a year,
and if your CPA or accountant orwhoever it is does not do that,
might be time to find a new one.
Because business ownersself-employed, it is beyond
paramount because then as yourfinancial planner, right, I'm
pushing that too.
I can see those adjustments thatneed to be made.
But if we don't have thatrelationship and we're not
(15:25):
working throughout the year,again, like you had said,
there's nothing we can do afterthe year.
Mm-hmm.
Soon as one one hits, there'slike two things we can move.
Yeah.
With your IRA or something likethat, but outside of that,
there's nothing else.
You're kind stuck with it.
So that's, that's huge.
Alright, so we've talked aboutindividual, we've just mm-hmm.
Dipped our toe into the businessside of things.
Yes.
Now, listed upon that businessowner and.
(15:45):
What typically tax debt are theyholding back?
I know it might not always beincome tax might be something
else, right?
Why don't you enlighten us withwhat you see there and kind of
what their feelings and emotionsare when they come to you.
Morgan Anderson, EA (15:57):
Okay, so big one, payroll taxes, right?
I cannot tell you how many timespeople come to me with a payroll
tax where they say, okay, wewere on top of things.
COVID happened, and then it kindof fell apart.
I, you know, things justhappened and it fell off of my
focus.
I give my people their W2 at theend of the year, but I haven't
(16:18):
filed or paid a payroll taxsince.
It happens all the time, youknow?
Payroll tax is one of those,those things with the federal
government, especially stategovernments, they're a little
quicker on the draw.
But federal government, it'lltake them a year, year and a
half, sometimes even two yearsbefore they realize you should
have been filing and paying andhaven't been.
(16:40):
And by that point, this soundsbad, but they've given you
enough rope to hang yourselfreally, because if, if you are
in a financial pinch, right?
And you're paying electricityfor your warehouse, and if you
don't pay that, that electricitybill, what happens?
They shut it off.
And then you're in the dark andthen you can't operate.
(17:00):
Payroll taxes aren't the samebecause it takes them so long to
figure out that you have fallenbehind.
By the time they realize it.
You are 3, 4, 6, 8 quarters downthe road, and if each quarter
you owe 25,000 and withheldtaxes that need to be paid over
and match taxes from thecompany, you're then looking at
(17:20):
a hundred, sometimes$200,000plus all the penalties and
interest.
So they let you by not.
Being so focused on yourrequirements, they let you get
into a really deep hole, andsometimes it's so hard to work
your way out of.
The other thing is sales andexcise tax at the state level.
(17:42):
And can I share, I, I just hadsomebody come to me and, and
this is a heartbreakingsituation.
They provide security personnel.
Okay.
Did not know that one of thestates they've been operating in
has excise tax tied to services.
They caught on the state,audited them in 24, going all
(18:04):
the way back to 2011.
They now owe over$700,000 inexcise tax penalty and interest.
And the guy said, I had anaccountant.
They just, they didn't tell methat this was a requirement and
they went back and looked at thecontracts.
(18:24):
The, the, the contract with theaccountant was only for income
tax preparation.
It.
So, I mean, on the businessowner side, there is full
explanation of, Hey, I justdidn't know.
I thought, like when I told myaccountant we were going into,
into the state that this wouldbe a requirement, knowing that,
(18:45):
you know, this is the service Iprovide.
And because they didn't have taxadvisory.
Involved in the contract, it allfalls on the business owner.
So it's so important that youadvocate for yourself.
You have clear communicationwith your tax professional once
a year.
If you, if you decide to add aservice to your business, sit
(19:09):
down with your tax professionaland say, okay, this is how it
works.
Do we have exposure for anyadditional tax obligations?
If you have A-C-C-F-O workingwith your business, they ought
to be in charge of this.
But a lot of people are smaller,right?
Most small businesses are like10 people and lower, right?
(19:29):
So you're operating on a budgetstring.
Employee wise and worker wiseand focus wise.
So odds are most of the peoplewho are listening to this have
that smaller business where it'syou and you are the one who has
to have that relationship withyour tax professional.
Just be forward thinking andproactive with everything having
(19:50):
to do with tax.
'cause that, that one broke myheart.
It really did.
It just, and it happens moreoften than you would imagine.
Stoy Hall, CFP® (19:59):
I and I.
Tax professionals.
I apologize if I'm going toattack you.
Okay.
From this perspective, becausein, in my with this too, yeah.
There's tax advisors.
Mm-hmm.
There's tax advisoree, there'stax planning, there's
accountants, there's EAs,there's CPAs, there's those that
do public accounting.
Private accounting.
There's also those that do justincome tax or do all of the
(20:24):
taxes for the business.
Some do just business.
Some do personal and business.
That Chaoticness is not okay forthe end user, right?
Mm-hmm.
My industry does the same way.
We have financial advisors,financial reps, insurance
agents, financial planners, etcetera.
Mm-hmm.
And I'm a huge proponent of eachone of us being the CFP myself
should take on the hat of weneed to know it all, so that way
(20:47):
we can make sure to guide themin the right direction.
Doesn't mean I'm the one filingtaxes, right?
But I do know the laws and therules so that way I can ensure
that they're not missingsomething.
And I see it often, and I knowthe tax industry is getting
cannibalized and there's a lotof movement there and not a lot
of people wanna work there.
But part of that is because likeyou are not helping that end
(21:08):
user at the end result ofsaying, Hey, these are all the
things you need to think about.
Here's my scope, but don't missall of these because these could
be, these could be fatal.
I mean,$700,000 could bedefinitely fatal for a business,
um, depending on how theyoperated.
So like.
Yes, tax professionals, but youknow what they should or should
(21:29):
not be doing.
Regardless if it's in yourscope, make sure you're having
that conversation and asking theright questions too.
It should not be on the end userand that client all themself
because they don't know whatthey do.
I
Morgan Anderson, EA (21:41):
completely agree and I've seen this time
and time and time again story Ireally have, and it's when I am
working with a client, when myteam is working with a client.
We dig under every layer of theonion we can think of to make
sure when we're addressing thesituation, we know all of it.
We've had situations wheresomeone comes to us for a state
(22:03):
issue and then all of a suddenwe're digging in and something
doesn't smell right.
We found embezzlement for, fortens of our clients, hundreds,
just digging into the financialsand saying something isn't right
here.
And financial people, you areinvolved with the FI numbers of
the business even more so thanwe are.
So when we're uncovering thisstuff, when we're finding, oh
(22:26):
gosh, okay, you came to us for astate issue.
We've also got an IRS issue.
And where is that money going?
It's coming outta your bankaccount.
Oh my gosh.
It's going to your in-houseaccountants.
Pocket What?
So, and I've seen it wherepayroll companies have been
processing W fours for employeesand all of them of one business
(22:48):
is claiming like eight and ninedependents.
It's like, wait a minute, thereare 15 employees.
Why are they all claiming thissomething's wrong?
So you should take it uponyourself to be proactive and
say, Hey, business owner, I wasjust looking at all the W fours
for your employees.
This.
It doesn't make sense.
You may have one person witheight dependents, but not 15.
(23:09):
Maybe there's a misunderstandinghere.
Can I talk to them and just makesure everybody understands the
tax implications of what they'reputting on this?
I mean, that to me is somebodywho has integrity with their
position, to me is somebody whotruly cares about their clients
and who wants what's better forthem.
No matter whether it's in theirscope or not.
(23:32):
Because if I have that level ofintegrity with a client, I know
they are gonna trust me.
They know I'm looking out forthem.
They know I care about them Inthis industry where everything
is starting to go like you, youtouched on Intuit QuickBooks.
They had this big marketing bashthis past.
Filing season.
(23:52):
I don't know if you saw that,where it was like breakup with
your tax professional.
Stoy Hall, CFP® (23:56):
Yeah.
Morgan Anderson, EA (23:57):
I cannot tell you how many inside threads
on social media taxprofessionals were like, what
the heck?
QBO we're the ones that tell allof our clients to use QBO
because it's all integrated intoour tax return platforms.
Why would you bite the hand thatfeeds you?
Intuit, what are you thinking?
(24:18):
Uh, sorry.
For all of you who aren't in thetax or finance world, I mean,
this has been a big blow upwithin the industry and the
problem is when you're dealingwith, like you had touched on
doing Turbo tax for your taxreturn, there's a time and a
place when that's appropriate,right?
That's usually the W2 employees.
(24:38):
You maybe have a dependent ortwo, you maybe own a home.
When you get to anything outsideof that level, right?
And that kind of was the h and rblock, Jackson Hewitt level of
tax preparation work.
That's what they're there for.
But when you are a businessowner, those programs are only
(25:00):
as good as the data you put into'em.
It's only gonna lead you to morequestions if you enter data that
will trigger those questionscoming.
And a lot of times they miss it.
So, sorry, I kind of went off ona rampage, but you can't, you
don't know what you don't.
No.
So as tax professionals, wereally need to look out for our
(25:22):
clients because they don't knowwhat they don't know, and they
don't know if they give you bankstatements with some of the
things flagged as businessversus personal, which
commingling just is another, butwe could talk about that later.
Stoy Hall, CFP® (25:37):
It is.
The big thing that I deal withwith new clients, like, oh my
Lord, and it takes so long toget it cleaned up so long again,
we're gonna go deeper folks, Ipromise.
Yes.
We'll go deeper at some point.
Yes.
So let's get back to the fullpicture.
Okay.
What does the process look like?
Someone comes to you, I havewhatever debt burden, either
personal or on my business orboth.
(25:59):
What does that process looklike?
What's the timing?
What's all the things that gointo it to mediate that, that,
uh, debt.
Morgan Anderson, EA (26:07):
First thing we do is have a conversation.
You know what?
From all the notices you'vereceived, what do you owe?
What's your financial conditionright now?
Because you could owe$5 millionin unpaid taxes to the IRS
business or personal, and if youcan't afford to pay it.
(26:27):
That takes us down one directionthat that's talking settlement.
Because the federal governments,the state governments, they know
that they can't squeeze bloodfrom a turnup.
They know it.
If you don't have the money topay it, it doesn't do them any
good to keep saying, well, youkeep owing us.
They will cut their losses andsay, okay, but from now on.
(26:47):
You've got to stay compliantwith your obligations.
As long as you do that, we'llsettle it.
And then that settlement isbased on your financial
condition.
And so when we deal with aclient, we always sit down and
say, okay, let's have aconversation.
No pressure.
Do you have time?
I wanna take as much time tospeak with you, to feel
comfortable about having a goodunderstanding of your case, your
(27:10):
financial condition, and whatare your expectations?
What are your fears?
Because I can.
Throw a bunch of those out thewindow, you don't need to worry
about that anymore with whereyou are and what's going on.
And we map out a game plan.
We typically start with aninvestigation because we wanna
pull the data from the IRS orthe state.
(27:31):
We wanna look at more of yourfinancial picture because all of
our negotiations depend on thatfinancial picture being the
backbone.
We need to look at what optionsthat state will allow.
We know the IRS, but every stateis a little different, and then
we come back and say, okay,we've called them, we've gained
a picture from of what they'relooking at when they look at
(27:54):
your tax situation.
We've told them, Hey, you'reworking on a solution.
We've bought some time.
They're not gonna takecollection action for the next
30, 45, 60 days.
It's gonna allow us to come sitdown and really frame out a
great solution.
We've pulled your financial datafrom you.
We've talked about it.
We've talked about compliancemoving forward, how you stop
(28:16):
adding to the debt, and this isthe resolution that we see is
gonna be best for you.
Here's some other options.
Let's talk about those.
But this in, in our wisdom.
In having done this for as longas we have, this is based on
what you've shared with us and,and what they've shared with us.
This is the best solution.
And then we make a game planfrom there.
(28:37):
I mean, I, I, I love these adson TV where it's like
everybody's an offeringcompromise.
Well, that's not the case.
You know, there's always a, afamily standing on the front
lawn of a beautiful home, and weowed 200,000 to the IRS and we
hired x, y, Z company and theysettled it for$2,000.
(28:57):
That is not that person'spicture, I'm just telling you
that right now.
I mean, you, you, they willalways work on a solution.
They'll always accept an Asolution based on your financial
condition.
If you're settling at$2,000, youcertainly don't have a$500,000
house behind you, and amanicured lawn tended to buy a
(29:20):
landscaping company like theydon't.
That doesn't happen
Stoy Hall, CFP® (29:25):
when you're going through this and you're
doing this whole deep diveinvestigation.
How often is it that you end upjust like having to amend the
tax returns because there was amistake on them that reduced?
Is that, like, does that happenoften or by the time they get to
you it is what?
It's,
Morgan Anderson, EA (29:39):
you know, sometimes, sometimes an amended
return is appropriate, but morewhat we're seeing right now, I,
in the current climate thatwe're dealing with, we're
dealing with a lot of businessesthat had ERCs filed that
weren't.
Accurate that they shouldn'thave claimed.
And now we're dealing with morethe opposite of the fallout from
(30:02):
the fraudulent ERC mills.
Told everybody you can file forERC and didn't pay attention to
the PPP correlating rules.
Yeah, we're seeing a lot ofbusinesses come back with a, oh
my gosh, I got a bill for$30,000for the second quarter of 2020.
What do I do?
Then we say, okay, well let'slook at the other quarters,
(30:23):
because if they ruled it out onone, odds are there are more,
um, that that is a hot topicright now.
Stoy Hall, CFP® (30:32):
That makes a lot of sense.
Morgan Anderson, EA (30:33):
Yeah.
But if we do come across ananomaly where an amended return
should have been filed or willbenefit them, then we certainly,
um, we deal with the client, butwe also talk to their tax
professional and walk through itbecause we collaborate with the
client's, CPA or ea, whoevertheir tax professional is, and
(30:53):
with their bookkeeper.
Because we feel like we're kindof stepping up onto the bench
for a little bit to be ateammate.
We do our job, we help make sureeverybody on the team knows
what's going on, and then assoon as we're done, we say,
okay, great.
Let us know if you need usagain.
And we back off.
Stoy Hall, CFP® (31:11):
Yeah.
That makes sense.
So,
Morgan Anderson, EA (31:13):
yeah.
Stoy Hall, CFP® (31:14):
Well, as we get to the end of this, what is one
thing you want our listeners totake from today in this episode?
That they can instill andimplement into their lives,
their tax lives, whatever todaythat will help them down the
road,
Morgan Anderson, EA (31:30):
communicate with your tax professional.
On a consistent basis, don't shyaway from that.
And I guess my second part wouldbe is if you do get a notice
from the IRS, like, don't letthe cortisol spike and a sweat
breakout on your brow.
No matter what that envelopecontains.
It's something you can dealwith.
It may be a littleuncomfortable, you may need to
(31:51):
pull in another party to helpsolve it, but deal with it and
move on.
Don't let it hang over your headanymore.
Stoy Hall, CFP® (31:59):
Know that you're not alone.
Yes, there are experts out thereto help you.
There's resources to help you sowell with that, again, we're
gonna dive deeper into thisbecause I know everyone
listening is like, well, I havethis situation.
I wanna go into this.
I wanna do that.
Yeah, we will definitely dothat.
Okay.
This year.
So we're gonna appreciate yourtime, appreciate everything you
do because it is needed so much,and it's so enlightening to hear
(32:19):
that, hey, it's okay, there's asolution.
Mm-hmm.
And it's not as bad as you thinkit is.
So thank you.
Morgan Anderson, EA (32:25):
And thank you for having me.
I love that you have thisplatform to educate people
because it's so important.
You know, people tend to shyaway from talking about money
and talking about finance andtalking about financial
problems.
Throw it out there, get it outthere.
Get it out in the open.
The sooner you do, the betteryou're gonna feel.
So thank you for having thisplatform.
Stoy Hall, CFP® (32:47):
Awesome.
The boogeyman that, that terrible entity that
no one wants to talk about.
The IRS, everyone hates taxes.
We get it.
And when you get that letterthat you're, you know, either
past due on taxes or you justget those random letters in
general, you get that ickyfeeling.
You get that, oh.
Lord, it's all coming down onme.
The world's gonna explode.
But we're here today with MorganAnderson to one tell you that
that's not the case.
(00:20):
There are always a solution.
There's a way out.
There's a way through it all,and I'm really excited to dive
into it today.
Hey everyone.
We know taxes are very complextoday.
We are going to scratch servicea little bit, but later this
year we'll go even deeper.
So without further ado, Morgan,welcome to the show.
Morgan Anderson, EA (00:37):
Thank you so much for having me.
I know people hear what I do andthey cringe.
I actually see like people pullback.
I'm like, wait a minute, wait aminute.
It's not that scary.
Let me, let me take away thatnasty, you know, three headed
monster image that you have inyour head because it's just
something that we have to dealwith.
You've faced tougher challenges.
(00:57):
You can get past this one aswell.
Stoy Hall, CFP® (00:59):
Absolutely.
So before we go into that, giveeveryone a little background
where you're from, how you evengot into it, and then why are
you so focused on the tax debtpiece of it?
Because in the accounting world,with your EA and all the tax up,
there is a hundred differentroutes to go.
Uh, we would really love why thetax debt and then we're gonna
get into it.
Morgan Anderson, EA (01:17):
Okay, so I had no direction at life.
I'll be fully transparent withyou all.
I was 25 years old managing acandle store in Boulder,
Colorado.
Bored outta my mind, like I'm anumbers person.
I am.
I'm a logic thinker.
Like I love working throughproblems and doing retail.
I was like, there has to be moreto my purpose.
(01:39):
So I answered an ad for anadministrative assistant.
Out of the Boulder Daily camera,and I ended up interviewing with
a company that was on theforefront of this whole tax debt
resolution corner of the world.
And I tripped into a world byaccident that I loved.
I could be a problem solver.
(01:59):
I got to help people when theywere scared, they didn't know
what to do.
And man, I put my head down andjust threw.
All of my efforts into learninghow to be excellent in dealing
with tax debt and helping peoplepsychologically work through it,
you know, because I, I woulddeal with people where the first
things out of their mouth, mouthwhen they talk to me was, am I
(02:21):
gonna go to jail?
And that is a very real fearthat people have deeply
ingrained.
And it's because the IRS and thestate tax agencies have fostered
that, right, which we can talkon later.
But I became inspired by theresults I could get for these
people and the, the physicaland, and vocal relief I could
(02:42):
hear talking to them from ourfirst conversation to our fifth,
to our 10th.
To the final solution andcalling them and saying, okay,
we got it done.
Here are the terms.
You're no longer gonna have tobe afraid of those nasty
letters.
Bank account, levy, or orgarnish, wage garnishment
threats like you are free.
Just stick to these guidelinesmoving forward.
(03:04):
I'm always here for you, but Idon't ever wanna hear from you
again.
Right?
Like that.
That felt good to me and that'swhat I've based my whole career
on, and that's why after doingthis for almost 26 years, I
still love what I do.
Stoy Hall, CFP® (03:20):
I mean, that's amazing.
One, because doing something solong you still love what you do
is just simply amazing.
Mm-hmm.
However, I'm sure there is sucha, it's ever moving our tax
code, so I'm sure that thingschange and adapt, so it keeps it
all fresh.
But let's hit upon thosemisnomers then.
Yeah.
One people go to jail.
Two, how big is this fine.
Do they levy all those threats?
Walk us through the actual truethings that happened from those.
Morgan Anderson, EA (03:43):
Okay.
Keep that list.
Because I get into everyquestion you ask me.
So the first one, will I go tojail?
It is true that people do.
We're talking about such aninfant decimal percentage of
people who owe past due taxes.
Your common business owner,individual who owes income tax,
(04:05):
you are not the target.
They're targeting people likethink about what Al Capone went
to jail for.
How did they actually get him?
They got him on tax, right?
That's what he went to jail for.
That's the level of people thatthey're looking for.
They're looking for humantraffickers, and they tie it to
taxation.
They're looking at drug lords.
(04:26):
They're tying it to taxation.
You're looking at people whoare.
Evader people who create these,these tax return strategies
where they're lying on taxreturns over and over and over
again for their clients, thoseare the people that are getting
in trouble in going to jail.
It's not our common neighborsor, or anybody really in our
(04:49):
community.
These are high ticket peoplethat they're targeting.
Stoy Hall, CFP® (04:53):
It's a really common thing to let everyone
know is IRS in general.
Even with audits, it's the sameway.
Like it's such a minusculeamount that you as a random
person will get it.
They truly are going for the bigticket items.
That's where the money is.
And to your co to what you'retalking about.
Al Capone, they wanted to gethim from the gang perspective.
(05:13):
They wanted to against exactlycrime.
It just so happened to be their.
Weigh in was through taxes, so.
Mm-hmm.
I love that you hit upon that.
Okay.
What about fines and fees andall of those things that come
along with it?
Um, what about those?
Morgan Anderson, EA (05:26):
Yeah, they exist.
There's no two ways around it.
I'm not gonna tiptoe around it.
If you owe a tax debt, you startaccruing additional fees with
penalties and interest from themoment the tax was due moving
forward.
So.
If you have a tax debtsituation, know that every month
(05:46):
you push off dealing with it.
You're letting that balance dogrow.
So use it as an inspiration tobe proactive.
Stoy Hall, CFP® (05:55):
Absolutely.
And then you said garnishingloving le weight wages about
words today.
Hello.
Good us through.
Are those threats, do theyhappen?
What's going on there?
Morgan Anderson, EA (06:06):
Yeah.
Now I, I will tell you sinceCOVID.
Before COVID, the IRS was apretty well-oiled machine.
They had all their divisions anddepartments in place.
The tech system was in supportof it.
So you knew when you had a debtwithin 60 days, you'd start
getting your first notices.
(06:28):
And I was just doing someresearch on this about the
efficiencies of the IRS in 2018versus what they reported in
2024.
And you can tell that COVID andshutting down our government for
six months broke the internalsystems.
So.
The hard part is yes, you owethe debt and it continues to
(06:50):
grow with penalties andinterest, but they haven't been
on top of their game withcollecting, and it has lulled a
lot of taxpayers who have a taxconsequence into this kind of
quiet slumber.
They're like, well, I'm notreally hearing from the IRS
other than these ankle biternotices.
Their computers spitting out.
So I'm not even having tax liensright now being filed.
(07:11):
They're not calling.
They're knocking on my, notknocking on my door.
I can just kinda let this debtbe and focus on other things.
And I'm here to tell you, youdon't wanna do that.
If you're proactive withhandling it.
Not only are you in control, youdon't have to go into that
reactionary mode of, oh my gosh,all of a sudden they do issue a
(07:33):
bank levy and.
You go into your bank accountand your funds that were$2,000
yesterday are now zero.
'cause it will happen.
But if you ignore it, and thenthe computer system does put you
into that active collectionaspect.
Let's say you're working for acompany, you've been with them
for 10 years, right?
(07:54):
And you had some missteps onyour annual tax returns and you
owe$3,000 to the IRS.
It happens more often than youwould imagine, and it's okay,
but you gotta be proactivebecause if not, they can issue a
wage garnishment to youremployer.
And imagine walking into the HRdepartment, right?
You've been with them for 10years, you're a well-known
(08:16):
employee, they love you.
You get awards and you have toanswer to your HR person about
this wage garnishment noticethat they got.
It's embarrassing.
You know, and, and it happens.
But if you are proactive, I'mtelling you, if you call them
and say, Hey, I've got an issue,I need to deal with it.
Or if you get a tax debtresolution expert involved who
(08:39):
is contacting them on yourbehalf, you take away that
unknown, right?
So you're more in control.
You are driving the dialoguefrom that moment forward, and
you can take action to preventit.
So instead of hiding and shyingaway from dealing with it, be
proactive because that's how youprotect yourself from all those
(09:00):
things from happening.
Stoy Hall, CFP® (09:02):
All right, so we talked about kind of the
misnomers, true, false, thosethings in there.
Mm-hmm.
Now let's dive into, really,there's two components.
There's the individual and thenthere's like the business owner.
Mm-hmm.
So let's start with theindividual.
What is the common occurrencethat you see of one, the debt
and how it, how it occurred, orwhy they're in this situation
and by the time they get to you,where are they at emotionally?
Morgan Anderson, EA (09:24):
Great questions.
You know, there are a thousanddifferent reasons why somebody
would have an income tax debt.
I.
There really is errors withcompleting the W four.
When you're a W2 employeeworking for a company, you fill
out the W four and it signalshow much income tax you have
withheld from your pay Well, forthe last four or five years.
(09:45):
The W four is really misleadingbecause you could say, I'm, I'm
married.
There's two of us, right?
We're filing joint and we eachonly have this one job.
But if you're in the higher tierof payroll level, just noting
that won't withhold enough tax.
I can't tell you how many peopleare like, wait a minute, I
(10:06):
claimed married filing two.
You know, and it didn't withholdenough tax.
We've had a lot of clients cometo us with that.
And we've had a lot of clientscome to us where a parent has
passed away and they'veinherited money, and instead of
getting with a CPA or aninvestor and talking about what
to do to shelter those moniesfrom being taxable, they do
(10:27):
something with it that convertsit into being taxable income.
We've had people who are busyrunning a trade.
Like a tile, a floor and tiledperson, they're just head down.
I'm earning money, I'm makingmoney, and I'm spending it, and
I'm making money and I'mspending it.
And at the end of the year, theylook at it and go, oh my gosh,
with my self-employed tax, I nowowe$20,000 for 2024.
(10:52):
It just happens for a variety ofreasons.
Typically when somebody reachesout to me, the first thing I
hear is, am I gonna go to jail?
Which we already addressed.
But the other thing that I hearis, well, I don't want you to
think bad of me.
And that breaks my heart becausefirst and foremost, everybody,
you, me, everybody listening isdoing their very best.
(11:15):
If you accrue a debt, it's noneof my business and I'm not gonna
judge you over it.
Don't feel ashamed.
Don't feel ashamed, or be tooego driven to call somebody and
say, Hey, I've got a problem andI think you can help me with it,
because that's gonna keep youcaught in that debt cycle.
Right.
So the first thing all of usshould know is we're not experts
(11:37):
at everything.
We can't be, I mean, I hirepeople to watch my kids and
teach my kids in school becauseGod knows that is not my cup of
tea.
It's okay.
As a business owner, you may beexcellent at laying.
Laying tile, right, or doinglandscaping, cutting down trees.
(11:57):
That's your area of expertise.
And be okay with other peoplehaving expertise in areas that
isn't yours and that it's okayfor you to lean on them.
Because they do know whatthey're doing.
They do know how to solve thisproblem that you're coming to
you with.
So yeah, that's for individuals.
That's typically the, thepsychology, when they call me,
(12:19):
there's this like sheepishfeeling almost.
Don't ever feel that way whenyou call us.
Stoy Hall, CFP® (12:25):
Yeah.
And I wanna double down on theother experts, like having
professionals in, in your courtand having a team.
Mm-hmm.
Again, I, I couldn't raise mychildren and teach them because
Morgan Anderson, EA (12:35):
I love that you laughed at that.
Yeah, just, that's not my, mything,
Stoy Hall, CFP® (12:40):
just not my strong suit.
No patience.
But a lot of people go toTurboTax or go to those tax
layers and truly don't just hirea CPA.
And I know it's, you know, it'sgetting more expenses and stuff
like that for your individual,but I, I press people still to
do it for two reasons.
One,'cause you don't know whatthe hell you're doing.
Right.
It's just a game and you'rerelying on a software and
(13:00):
software's wrong.
Sometimes two.
If you have the right one, nowthey're helping with that
liability piece of it.
If they make a mistake or not,they have to fix it.
They're on the hook for it.
And that's really where you wantto be because then if an audit
comes up, or if these situationscome up, you have someone in
your court that already knowstheir situation that's been in
(13:20):
it, and they can make thatadjustment a lot faster than you
can.
And when you get those randomnotices that are spit out, you
can just like say, Hey.
What is this?
And they'll go, oh, I'll takecare of it.
And it's taken care of.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's that relief and, and havingthat feeling of someone has your
back in those situations to meis worth the$400 or$600 or
whatever the filing fee isaround your area or whoever you
(13:42):
hire.
So really look into that becausethat's worth it more than just
the true filing fee.
I know some of those are free,but.
Having that backing, just when,when people get it, I can see
the relief off their shouldersjust in case that 0.00125%
chance of getting audited comesup.
Right.
Morgan Anderson, EA (14:01):
I completely agree and if, if I,
could I take it a step further,if you are self-employed or you
have financial situations thatchange throughout the year, it
is so worth it to call your taxprofessional and say, Hey, can I
sit down with you for an hour?
We've had some things change.
If you're a business owner andyou're self-employed, you're,
(14:21):
you have flow through income,get with your tax professional
quarterly, because if you areonly getting with them the
following spring.
So we're in 2025.
If you get with them in March of26 and say, okay, here's all my
records for last year, and theysay, oh my gosh.
Well, based on everything youdid, you owe$35,000 of income
(14:43):
tax.
You are talking about historicaldata.
At that point, you can't go backand change and make a pivot
halfway throughout the year tominimize that tax consequence.
So I cannot encourage peopleenough.
Don't just have a once a yearrelationship with your tax
professional.
Get with them quarterly.
Stoy Hall, CFP® (15:04):
Yes, tax planning at least twice a year,
and if your CPA or accountant orwhoever it is does not do that,
might be time to find a new one.
Because business ownersself-employed, it is beyond
paramount because then as yourfinancial planner, right, I'm
pushing that too.
I can see those adjustments thatneed to be made.
But if we don't have thatrelationship and we're not
(15:25):
working throughout the year,again, like you had said,
there's nothing we can do afterthe year.
Mm-hmm.
Soon as one one hits, there'slike two things we can move.
Yeah.
With your IRA or something likethat, but outside of that,
there's nothing else.
You're kind stuck with it.
So that's, that's huge.
Alright, so we've talked aboutindividual, we've just mm-hmm.
Dipped our toe into the businessside of things.
Yes.
Now, listed upon that businessowner and.
(15:45):
What typically tax debt are theyholding back?
I know it might not always beincome tax might be something
else, right?
Why don't you enlighten us withwhat you see there and kind of
what their feelings and emotionsare when they come to you.
Morgan Anderson, EA (15:57):
Okay, so big one, payroll taxes, right?
I cannot tell you how many timespeople come to me with a payroll
tax where they say, okay, wewere on top of things.
COVID happened, and then it kindof fell apart.
I, you know, things justhappened and it fell off of my
focus.
I give my people their W2 at theend of the year, but I haven't
(16:18):
filed or paid a payroll taxsince.
It happens all the time, youknow?
Payroll tax is one of those,those things with the federal
government, especially stategovernments, they're a little
quicker on the draw.
But federal government, it'lltake them a year, year and a
half, sometimes even two yearsbefore they realize you should
have been filing and paying andhaven't been.
(16:40):
And by that point, this soundsbad, but they've given you
enough rope to hang yourselfreally, because if, if you are
in a financial pinch, right?
And you're paying electricityfor your warehouse, and if you
don't pay that, that electricitybill, what happens?
They shut it off.
And then you're in the dark andthen you can't operate.
(17:00):
Payroll taxes aren't the samebecause it takes them so long to
figure out that you have fallenbehind.
By the time they realize it.
You are 3, 4, 6, 8 quarters downthe road, and if each quarter
you owe 25,000 and withheldtaxes that need to be paid over
and match taxes from thecompany, you're then looking at
(17:20):
a hundred, sometimes$200,000plus all the penalties and
interest.
So they let you by not.
Being so focused on yourrequirements, they let you get
into a really deep hole, andsometimes it's so hard to work
your way out of.
The other thing is sales andexcise tax at the state level.
(17:42):
And can I share, I, I just hadsomebody come to me and, and
this is a heartbreakingsituation.
They provide security personnel.
Okay.
Did not know that one of thestates they've been operating in
has excise tax tied to services.
They caught on the state,audited them in 24, going all
(18:04):
the way back to 2011.
They now owe over$700,000 inexcise tax penalty and interest.
And the guy said, I had anaccountant.
They just, they didn't tell methat this was a requirement and
they went back and looked at thecontracts.
(18:24):
The, the, the contract with theaccountant was only for income
tax preparation.
It.
So, I mean, on the businessowner side, there is full
explanation of, Hey, I justdidn't know.
I thought, like when I told myaccountant we were going into,
into the state that this wouldbe a requirement, knowing that,
(18:45):
you know, this is the service Iprovide.
And because they didn't have taxadvisory.
Involved in the contract, it allfalls on the business owner.
So it's so important that youadvocate for yourself.
You have clear communicationwith your tax professional once
a year.
If you, if you decide to add aservice to your business, sit
(19:09):
down with your tax professionaland say, okay, this is how it
works.
Do we have exposure for anyadditional tax obligations?
If you have A-C-C-F-O workingwith your business, they ought
to be in charge of this.
But a lot of people are smaller,right?
Most small businesses are like10 people and lower, right?
(19:29):
So you're operating on a budgetstring.
Employee wise and worker wiseand focus wise.
So odds are most of the peoplewho are listening to this have
that smaller business where it'syou and you are the one who has
to have that relationship withyour tax professional.
Just be forward thinking andproactive with everything having
(19:50):
to do with tax.
'cause that, that one broke myheart.
It really did.
It just, and it happens moreoften than you would imagine.
Stoy Hall, CFP® (19:59):
I and I.
Tax professionals.
I apologize if I'm going toattack you.
Okay.
From this perspective, becausein, in my with this too, yeah.
There's tax advisors.
Mm-hmm.
There's tax advisoree, there'stax planning, there's
accountants, there's EAs,there's CPAs, there's those that
do public accounting.
Private accounting.
There's also those that do justincome tax or do all of the
(20:24):
taxes for the business.
Some do just business.
Some do personal and business.
That Chaoticness is not okay forthe end user, right?
Mm-hmm.
My industry does the same way.
We have financial advisors,financial reps, insurance
agents, financial planners, etcetera.
Mm-hmm.
And I'm a huge proponent of eachone of us being the CFP myself
should take on the hat of weneed to know it all, so that way
(20:47):
we can make sure to guide themin the right direction.
Doesn't mean I'm the one filingtaxes, right?
But I do know the laws and therules so that way I can ensure
that they're not missingsomething.
And I see it often, and I knowthe tax industry is getting
cannibalized and there's a lotof movement there and not a lot
of people wanna work there.
But part of that is because likeyou are not helping that end
(21:08):
user at the end result ofsaying, Hey, these are all the
things you need to think about.
Here's my scope, but don't missall of these because these could
be, these could be fatal.
I mean,$700,000 could bedefinitely fatal for a business,
um, depending on how theyoperated.
So like.
Yes, tax professionals, but youknow what they should or should
(21:29):
not be doing.
Regardless if it's in yourscope, make sure you're having
that conversation and asking theright questions too.
It should not be on the end userand that client all themself
because they don't know whatthey do.
I
Morgan Anderson, EA (21:41):
completely agree and I've seen this time
and time and time again story Ireally have, and it's when I am
working with a client, when myteam is working with a client.
We dig under every layer of theonion we can think of to make
sure when we're addressing thesituation, we know all of it.
We've had situations wheresomeone comes to us for a state
(22:03):
issue and then all of a suddenwe're digging in and something
doesn't smell right.
We found embezzlement for, fortens of our clients, hundreds,
just digging into the financialsand saying something isn't right
here.
And financial people, you areinvolved with the FI numbers of
the business even more so thanwe are.
So when we're uncovering thisstuff, when we're finding, oh
(22:26):
gosh, okay, you came to us for astate issue.
We've also got an IRS issue.
And where is that money going?
It's coming outta your bankaccount.
Oh my gosh.
It's going to your in-houseaccountants.
Pocket What?
So, and I've seen it wherepayroll companies have been
processing W fours for employeesand all of them of one business
(22:48):
is claiming like eight and ninedependents.
It's like, wait a minute, thereare 15 employees.
Why are they all claiming thissomething's wrong?
So you should take it uponyourself to be proactive and
say, Hey, business owner, I wasjust looking at all the W fours
for your employees.
This.
It doesn't make sense.
You may have one person witheight dependents, but not 15.
(23:09):
Maybe there's a misunderstandinghere.
Can I talk to them and just makesure everybody understands the
tax implications of what they'reputting on this?
I mean, that to me is somebodywho has integrity with their
position, to me is somebody whotruly cares about their clients
and who wants what's better forthem.
No matter whether it's in theirscope or not.
(23:32):
Because if I have that level ofintegrity with a client, I know
they are gonna trust me.
They know I'm looking out forthem.
They know I care about them Inthis industry where everything
is starting to go like you, youtouched on Intuit QuickBooks.
They had this big marketing bashthis past.
Filing season.
(23:52):
I don't know if you saw that,where it was like breakup with
your tax professional.
Stoy Hall, CFP® (23:56):
Yeah.
Morgan Anderson, EA (23:57):
I cannot tell you how many inside threads
on social media taxprofessionals were like, what
the heck?
QBO we're the ones that tell allof our clients to use QBO
because it's all integrated intoour tax return platforms.
Why would you bite the hand thatfeeds you?
Intuit, what are you thinking?
(24:18):
Uh, sorry.
For all of you who aren't in thetax or finance world, I mean,
this has been a big blow upwithin the industry and the
problem is when you're dealingwith, like you had touched on
doing Turbo tax for your taxreturn, there's a time and a
place when that's appropriate,right?
That's usually the W2 employees.
(24:38):
You maybe have a dependent ortwo, you maybe own a home.
When you get to anything outsideof that level, right?
And that kind of was the h and rblock, Jackson Hewitt level of
tax preparation work.
That's what they're there for.
But when you are a businessowner, those programs are only
(25:00):
as good as the data you put into'em.
It's only gonna lead you to morequestions if you enter data that
will trigger those questionscoming.
And a lot of times they miss it.
So, sorry, I kind of went off ona rampage, but you can't, you
don't know what you don't.
No.
So as tax professionals, wereally need to look out for our
(25:22):
clients because they don't knowwhat they don't know, and they
don't know if they give you bankstatements with some of the
things flagged as businessversus personal, which
commingling just is another, butwe could talk about that later.
Stoy Hall, CFP® (25:37):
It is.
The big thing that I deal withwith new clients, like, oh my
Lord, and it takes so long toget it cleaned up so long again,
we're gonna go deeper folks, Ipromise.
Yes.
We'll go deeper at some point.
Yes.
So let's get back to the fullpicture.
Okay.
What does the process look like?
Someone comes to you, I havewhatever debt burden, either
personal or on my business orboth.
(25:59):
What does that process looklike?
What's the timing?
What's all the things that gointo it to mediate that, that,
uh, debt.
Morgan Anderson, EA (26:07):
First thing we do is have a conversation.
You know what?
From all the notices you'vereceived, what do you owe?
What's your financial conditionright now?
Because you could owe$5 millionin unpaid taxes to the IRS
business or personal, and if youcan't afford to pay it.
(26:27):
That takes us down one directionthat that's talking settlement.
Because the federal governments,the state governments, they know
that they can't squeeze bloodfrom a turnup.
They know it.
If you don't have the money topay it, it doesn't do them any
good to keep saying, well, youkeep owing us.
They will cut their losses andsay, okay, but from now on.
(26:47):
You've got to stay compliantwith your obligations.
As long as you do that, we'llsettle it.
And then that settlement isbased on your financial
condition.
And so when we deal with aclient, we always sit down and
say, okay, let's have aconversation.
No pressure.
Do you have time?
I wanna take as much time tospeak with you, to feel
comfortable about having a goodunderstanding of your case, your
(27:10):
financial condition, and whatare your expectations?
What are your fears?
Because I can.
Throw a bunch of those out thewindow, you don't need to worry
about that anymore with whereyou are and what's going on.
And we map out a game plan.
We typically start with aninvestigation because we wanna
pull the data from the IRS orthe state.
(27:31):
We wanna look at more of yourfinancial picture because all of
our negotiations depend on thatfinancial picture being the
backbone.
We need to look at what optionsthat state will allow.
We know the IRS, but every stateis a little different, and then
we come back and say, okay,we've called them, we've gained
a picture from of what they'relooking at when they look at
(27:54):
your tax situation.
We've told them, Hey, you'reworking on a solution.
We've bought some time.
They're not gonna takecollection action for the next
30, 45, 60 days.
It's gonna allow us to come sitdown and really frame out a
great solution.
We've pulled your financial datafrom you.
We've talked about it.
We've talked about compliancemoving forward, how you stop
(28:16):
adding to the debt, and this isthe resolution that we see is
gonna be best for you.
Here's some other options.
Let's talk about those.
But this in, in our wisdom.
In having done this for as longas we have, this is based on
what you've shared with us and,and what they've shared with us.
This is the best solution.
And then we make a game planfrom there.
(28:37):
I mean, I, I, I love these adson TV where it's like
everybody's an offeringcompromise.
Well, that's not the case.
You know, there's always a, afamily standing on the front
lawn of a beautiful home, and weowed 200,000 to the IRS and we
hired x, y, Z company and theysettled it for$2,000.
(28:57):
That is not that person'spicture, I'm just telling you
that right now.
I mean, you, you, they willalways work on a solution.
They'll always accept an Asolution based on your financial
condition.
If you're settling at$2,000, youcertainly don't have a$500,000
house behind you, and amanicured lawn tended to buy a
(29:20):
landscaping company like theydon't.
That doesn't happen
Stoy Hall, CFP® (29:25):
when you're going through this and you're
doing this whole deep diveinvestigation.
How often is it that you end upjust like having to amend the
tax returns because there was amistake on them that reduced?
Is that, like, does that happenoften or by the time they get to
you it is what?
It's,
Morgan Anderson, EA (29:39):
you know, sometimes, sometimes an amended
return is appropriate, but morewhat we're seeing right now, I,
in the current climate thatwe're dealing with, we're
dealing with a lot of businessesthat had ERCs filed that
weren't.
Accurate that they shouldn'thave claimed.
And now we're dealing with morethe opposite of the fallout from
(30:02):
the fraudulent ERC mills.
Told everybody you can file forERC and didn't pay attention to
the PPP correlating rules.
Yeah, we're seeing a lot ofbusinesses come back with a, oh
my gosh, I got a bill for$30,000for the second quarter of 2020.
What do I do?
Then we say, okay, well let'slook at the other quarters,
(30:23):
because if they ruled it out onone, odds are there are more,
um, that that is a hot topicright now.
Stoy Hall, CFP® (30:32):
That makes a lot of sense.
Morgan Anderson, EA (30:33):
Yeah.
But if we do come across ananomaly where an amended return
should have been filed or willbenefit them, then we certainly,
um, we deal with the client, butwe also talk to their tax
professional and walk through itbecause we collaborate with the
client's, CPA or ea, whoevertheir tax professional is, and
(30:53):
with their bookkeeper.
Because we feel like we're kindof stepping up onto the bench
for a little bit to be ateammate.
We do our job, we help make sureeverybody on the team knows
what's going on, and then assoon as we're done, we say,
okay, great.
Let us know if you need usagain.
And we back off.
Stoy Hall, CFP® (31:11):
Yeah.
That makes sense.
So,
Morgan Anderson, EA (31:13):
yeah.
Stoy Hall, CFP® (31:14):
Well, as we get to the end of this, what is one
thing you want our listeners totake from today in this episode?
That they can instill andimplement into their lives,
their tax lives, whatever todaythat will help them down the
road,
Morgan Anderson, EA (31:30):
communicate with your tax professional.
On a consistent basis, don't shyaway from that.
And I guess my second part wouldbe is if you do get a notice
from the IRS, like, don't letthe cortisol spike and a sweat
breakout on your brow.
No matter what that envelopecontains.
It's something you can dealwith.
It may be a littleuncomfortable, you may need to
(31:51):
pull in another party to helpsolve it, but deal with it and
move on.
Don't let it hang over your headanymore.
Stoy Hall, CFP® (31:59):
Know that you're not alone.
Yes, there are experts out thereto help you.
There's resources to help you sowell with that, again, we're
gonna dive deeper into thisbecause I know everyone
listening is like, well, I havethis situation.
I wanna go into this.
I wanna do that.
Yeah, we will definitely dothat.
Okay.
This year.
So we're gonna appreciate yourtime, appreciate everything you
do because it is needed so much,and it's so enlightening to hear
(32:19):
that, hey, it's okay, there's asolution.
Mm-hmm.
And it's not as bad as you thinkit is.
So thank you.
Morgan Anderson, EA (32:25):
And thank you for having me.
I love that you have thisplatform to educate people
because it's so important.
You know, people tend to shyaway from talking about money
and talking about finance andtalking about financial
problems.
Throw it out there, get it outthere.
Get it out in the open.
The sooner you do, the betteryou're gonna feel.
So thank you for having thisplatform.
Stoy Hall, CFP® (32:47):
Awesome.
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