November 5, 2025 • 39 mins
This is your leverage window. Q4 is when companies lock budgets, finalize promotions, set equity, and protect retention risk. Translation: decisions are being made about you—often without you. If you stay quiet, you’re already behind. In this episode, Dr. Renee Baker joins me to dismantle the myths and give you a real plan to negotiate raises, titles, and equity without begging or breaking.
We tear into the fear narrative—layoffs, headlines, “be grateful and wait your turn.” Gratitude without advocacy is servitude. Silence doesn’t pay. You are the CEO of you, and if you don’t speak up, you’ve handed away your leverage. We talk about why it’s cheaper to keep you than replace you, how bonuses and timing create retention pressure, and how to use that math in your favor.
Then we get tactical. Politics often beats performance, so study the breadcrumbs: who gets promoted, how, and why. Don’t bring a task list to a review—bring outcomes. Learn to quantify impact beyond sales, frame results the way your firm rewards them, and ask the right questions in your 1:1s so your leaders carry the right story into the room when you’re not there.
We close with two heavy hitters: titles and “no.” Titles drive pay bands and access—use them. If they say no, convert it into a timeline, criteria, and checkpoints. If that’s not respected, that’s your signal. This is not about ego. It’s about equity, mobility, and your next seat at the table.
Watch the full episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/sN9-MechYpM
Connect with Dr. Renee Baker:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/itsreneebaker/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ItsReneeBaker/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/itsreneebaker
Threads: https://www.threads.net/@itsreneebaker
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DrReneeBaker
As always we ask you to comment, DM, whatever it takes to have a conversation to help you take the next step in your journey, reach out on any platform!
Twitter, FaceBook, Instagram, Tiktok, Linkedin
DISCLOSURE: Awards and rankings by third parties are not indicative of future performance or client investment success. Past performance does not guarantee future results. All investment strategies carry profit/loss potential and cannot eliminate investment risks. Information discussed may not reflect current positions/recommendations. While believed accurate, Black Mammoth does not guarantee information accuracy. This broadcast is not a solicitation for securities transactions or personalized investment advice. Tax/estate planning information is general - consult professionals for specific situations. Full disclosures at www.blackmammoth.com.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Renee Baker (00:22):
Well then it's time.
Stoy Hall (00:29):
Our career moves that raise negotiations, promotions,
makes kind, wanna vomit a littlebit.
You don't really know how totalk about it.
You don't even know if you trulyare valued enough to ask for it.
Well, hey, today's episode we'regonna get in all to that with
Dr.
Renee Baker'cause she's amazing.
She has that background from thecorporate world and there's no
better time to start thinkingabout it as we go into the next
(00:51):
year and preparing yourself forthat conversation.
So Renee, welcome back.
Dr. Renee Baker (00:56):
Oh, thank you so much for having me.
Soy.
This is such an important topicand I'm glad to be here to share
just a bit of my perspective onit.
Stoy Hall (01:06):
So let's, let's dive right into it and let's go from
kind of the top part of it,right, with, with the, the
corporate side of things andwhat they think around this
time.
So, q depending on obviously,when their, their fiscal year
ends, but let's go withtraditional.
This is Q4.
We got Q1 coming up.
Where are they at in thethinking of, okay, I've got
these employees that are comingup on their annuals or their
(01:28):
five year or whatever, where'stheir brain at, um, in terms of
comp and and comp structure now?
Dr. Renee Baker (01:35):
Yeah, so, um, like you said, it, it depends
and I think we, we really needto start looking at this time of
the year as the, the leveragewindow, right?
We need to start really thinkingabout.
Our value beyond our, our jobdescription.
So here's the reality.
I wanna just set the stage and,and answer your question, but
here's the reality.
(01:56):
Um, and I'm gonna speak from thelens of Mia as as a woman.
Um, women are still earningabout 83, 80 4 cents.
Per dollar compared to men evenin the same occupation.
Okay.
The data is out there, and whenwe think about it, no matter man
or woman, the one thing that isnot going to get away from us is
(02:16):
inflation.
And that is the one thing that'sgonna magnify the gap because
essentials your childcare, uh,food, gas, um, housing takes a
lot of our pay.
So to your question, the yearend is when.
Decisions are made, right?
This is when budgets, um, areusually decided upon based on
(02:38):
where you are.
Um.
If you are an employee who getsequity, that decisions are made.
Um, promotions are usuallylocked in beforehand.
So companies are looking at thisas the opportunity to, what I
say is they will take care ofthe people that they value,
(02:58):
right?
So this is, they're looking atretention risk because another
thing that happens is at the endof the year, um, especially for
those of us that are in finance,and depending on, again.
Um, at some of my companies, theend of the year in December was
when bonuses were paid, right?
So there's that retention risk.
So that's, this is theopportunity, right?
That this is your leverage.
(03:20):
That's why we're gonna call it,this is the leverage window,
because especially now, um,listen, the, the.
People, the cost of rerereplacing talent is like 1.5 to
2% of the salary.
So I don't say that this is thetime to start thinking about it.
This is the time to be about it.
And in, in a way, I'll say thatwe're beyond the, the part of
(03:41):
reflection.
This is now the leverage seasonbecause if you stay silent now.
You are already behind.
And I think if you're juststarting a conversation, you
are, you're behind, you're, youneed to be having these
conversations.
Um, earlier at the beginning ofthe year, and I, and I remember
being, um, in, in a corporateenvironment and not realizing
(04:04):
that that was the case.
I thought that when we wouldhave the conversation around
performance, that's when thedecision was made.
I didn't know.
So once I know better, I, I didbetter.
And I, I want the, the peoplethat are watching that are
listening that to know that thisis an ongoing conversations.
By the time you got to, you getto your performance review, the
(04:27):
decision has been made.
There are people that are havingconversations talking about your
performance all year.
And, um, when they get in theroom and they talk about who is
the better and every, all theleaders are negotiating your
value.
You need to make sure that theyare equipped with the
information that's gonna bestposition you against everyone
(04:49):
else that is competing to retaintheir talent.
So hopefully I answered, uh,your question, but this, we need
to start thinking aboutourselves as valuable all year
round, not just at performanceseason.
Stoy Hall (05:02):
But Renee, I'm afraid with all of uh uh, the jobs
reports coming out, there's somany less jobs.
There's so many more peoplegetting laid off.
There's gonna be a bunch oflayoffs, by the way, coming one.
One.
We see it from Wells Fargo.
We're gonna see it a lot morecome one, one of 2026.
I'm afraid to have thoseconversations.
I'm afraid to show my value andcome say something because you
(05:24):
know I'm gonna get fired.
What do you have to say to that?
Dr. Renee Baker (05:27):
Well, here's what I'll say to that.
I would hope that.
We learn to speak up becausesilence does not pay.
And if you don't advocate foryourself as much as we trust and
you know, love our companies andwe respect and appreciate our
leaders, we are responsible forour own selves.
(05:50):
We are the captain of our ownships.
You are the CEO of you.
And if you.
Remain silent.
If you live in fear, then youare, you are really putting
yourself in one of the worstpositions because listen,
there's a lot of noise out hereand that's why I said we wanna
(06:12):
value ourselves beyond our jobdescriptions.
Even some of the best companies,we believe that we're too big to
fail, have failed, and no job.
Um, listen, the reality is jobsand corporations.
Don't provide as much stabilityas we may trust and think.
(06:33):
And I don't say that to benegative.
I say that for awareness andhopefully what is they?
They say fear is fear ofevidence appearing real.
You don't know what is possibleuntil you speak up and.
I'll say this.
I have been that person.
I have been the person who wasafraid to speak up for myself,
(06:57):
and it never served me.
Trust me, it never served me.
It wasn't until I decided tospeak up and speak out that I.
The value of what I representedstarted to be seen.
So yes, I get it.
But talk to someone that youtrust work I, I, I, it's hard
for me to say, to get over itbecause that's a lot of internal
(07:19):
work, but I promise you, Ipromise you this, I don't care
how great of an employee youare, I don't care how much work
you do, I am here to tell youwhat is not going to be told.
Here's the myth that we aregonna debunk right now.
No one is gonna advocate for youmore than you advocate for
(07:41):
yourself, and if advocating foryourself means that you'll get
removed, take that ad, take thatrejection as protection, and
then go into the nextopportunity with more value.
I understand that that might bea fearful place to be, but we
are in the world.
I say we are already in 2026,and there are so many
(08:01):
opportunities that are untappedand potential opportunities that
we can lean into if we valueourselves enough.
But if we don't value enough,ourselves enough to speak up for
ourselves, then we are alreadyputting ourselves behind and
we're putting ourselves as adisservice.
Stoy Hall (08:20):
We sure are.
Now, as we get into mythbusting, let's, let's continue
that train.
All right, next segment is whatsociety and media are saying.
Let's bust a little bit of thesemyths in these things.
So start with the first one.
This one, this could, Idefinitely, this is like an
older generation one.
I promise you.
'cause when I say it, everyone'sgonna go, yep, yep, that's
right.
That sounds about right.
But here it is.
Just be grateful and wait yourturn.
Dr. Renee Baker (08:42):
Oh, I, I've, oh, um, I, that's not a trigger
anymore because of therapy, buthere's what I'll say.
We have to look into.
We're gonna debunk that as well,because, oh, gratitude.
You just gotta be grateful.
I used to be that person.
I'm just grateful.
I'm just so grateful to, to behere.
(09:03):
This is just such a, a wonderfulculture.
But let's look into the data.
McKenzie 2024, only.
Sense of women are alreadygetting promoted.
So there are people out heredoing more, doing less than what
you do and already beingpromoted.
(09:24):
Right?
So I don't even, let's not makethis about gender.
The reality is we will have to.
Speak up and waiting does notclose the gap.
That's not gonna close the gap.
That's not gonna help you withinflation.
That's not gonna help you with,um, wages.
That's not gonna help you shiftinto who it is that you're
(09:46):
supposed to be.
So gratitude and advocacy cancoexist.
You can be grateful and you canadvocate for yourself.
They can co-exist because whenwe negotiate for ourselves and
we sponsor others, we begin tocreate a ripple effect, and we
start building pathways forourselves and for others.
(10:09):
So listen, gratitude withoutadvocacy is servitude, and you
can be thankful and still makeyour move, but I, I, I can be
grateful.
But I don't have to utilize thatgratitude as a means to
underestimate the value that webring to the table.
Now, I understand that, youknow, a lot of us are taught
(10:31):
that, you know, just begrateful.
You, yeah.
You have a job.
And when you read the reports,right, you're hearing about all
these layoffs.
You know, like, I'm afraid Ihave this fear.
I'm just so grateful.
But let me just tell you, um.
Gratitude is, is, is not gonnapay your bills.
Um, uh, gratitude, especially inthe workplace.
I'm not speaking about gratitudeas a whole, but I'm telling you,
(10:54):
waiting does not close the gap.
And, and I promise you, if Iwould have waited for somebody
to bestow upon me the wait, myturn, I would not be in this
position that I sit in todayowning my power, owning my
space, and owning my voice,because I gotta tell you.
When they tell you that, usuallythey don't, they don't value you
(11:16):
because the people they value,they're not telling that to.
And no one is going to, no oneis going to tell you the truth
about that.
Stoy Hall (11:29):
You're not wrong.
You're not wrong.
And being a business owner,right, we're owners, this is
what we gotta do.
This next one is interesting'cause I think it, it depends,
um, a little bit.
You as a business owner, me as abusiness owner, my clients, like
if we actually said this, wewould provide facts and truth
behind it.
'cause we truly care about ouremployees as close to family as
(11:50):
possible.
However, in majority ofbusinesses in the corporate
world, there's more to this one.
So that being said is you go in,you talk, you have a chat with
your manager, whoever yourbusiness owner, and they go,
raises just aren't possible thisyear.
They're just not possible.
I'm gonna be.
Dr. Renee Baker (12:09):
Kind when I say this and they say, I'm gonna
hold your hand with a napkin inbetween when I tell you this.
Um, let's look at the data.
Let's talk, let's talk about thereality.
Um, that's rarely true acrossthe board.
That is rarely true across theboard.
Have you ever seen an executive,for the most part, not get it
raised by millions?
(12:32):
Look at your annual reports ifyou work for a pub public
company.
How many, how many executives,races are not possible for you,
but executives almost always getadjustments, right?
So, and um, if you think aboutCEO pay that continues to rise
and now listen, we're not, we'renot comparing the two, but the
(12:54):
CEOs, the Fed, we wanna makesure they retain, but.
The CEO pay is outpacinginflation, which is currently
what, what around 2.9%.
So CEOs are getting paid what,13, 14, 15%.
And, and then they're tellingyou that that budgets were, were
too tight?
Um, no.
(13:14):
No.
I, I don't, I don't, no.
If they're telling you thatthere's, I will tell you this,
there's always money.
When they want you, when they,when they, when they value.
And inflation makes it harderfor companies to ignore the
retention risk.
They know that if they lose you,that costs more than adjusting
(13:35):
your salary.
And they only really tell thatpeople if so when they tell you,
raises aren't possible thisyear.
I say this with so much respect.
It is, it's not possible for youand then you need to decide.
When you know better, you dobetter.
And then you need to decide howare you gonna move?
(13:55):
How will you make that move?
Are you gonna choose yourself orare you gonna suffer in in
gratitude?
So we always say pain of gain orpay of same.
I don't know about you story,but I, I think we're on this.
I think we, I can speak for uswhen we say we're on the, we are
on the side of pain of gain andif we have to be a little bit
(14:15):
uncomfortable, dust off thatresume.
If we need to be a little bituncomfortable and start
networking or posting more onLinkedIn or or, or negotiating,
we have to do that because thatis such a myth.
Raises are not.
Possible this year.
The only way I trust that iswhen not one person in an entire
company doesn't get a raise.
(14:38):
Not the CEO just got 13%.
Oh, but raises are not possible.
On my on, on the, what's theaverage salary?
We're like 80,000.
I don't know.
We're in finance, so I alwaysthink six figures, but.
If there it is not possible foryou, but they can get millions
then, then you, they alreadytold you you might not just be
paying attention.
Stoy Hall (14:57):
Yeah, exactly.
They told you, you keep bringingup inflation and I wanna hit
upon this part.
I know we're kind of off ourskirt a little bit, but
inflation.
Inflation means a lot of things.
Yes.
We're talking about it intwofold.
Right now we're talking aboutinflation because of the bills
we all have personally, foodcosts going insane.
Housing's outrageous.
You know, utilities are goingthrough the roof right now too.
(15:20):
We're talking about thatinflation.
But also on the business side,we're talking about inflation.
And I don't mean the logisticsand the materials, I'm talking
about the employee, the thingthat they care about the most
for leverage purposes.
That's right.
And so when you're talking aboutkind of your leverage and, and
your value and it beingleveraged season, really people,
that's what we're talking aboutbecause replace you is going to
(15:40):
cost them more, not in justsalary.
They have to train you, train bemore.
Right?
All of that creates more so it'sactually cheaper for them to
retain you.
Yeah.
Cheaper to keep'em.
You keep right up, right?
Like and you know, you have topeople, we have to understand
that that is the power.
Of which you have.
(16:01):
That's right.
And that is no matter what, likeif you Googled it, look at
Glassdoor, don't care.
The new hires coming in aregoing to make more than you have
right now.
Yes.
And to me, from a negotiationtool, that's a very easy way to
ask for more just immediatelyand just be like, Hey, I provide
value.
You don't have to train me yet.
You're paying me 5, 10, 15,whatever.
The percentage is less than ifyou had to replace me right now.
(16:24):
And that's a really.
Dr. Renee Baker (16:26):
That's a really good point, and I, and, and
thank you soy for, forhighlighting that and, and
framing it in that way becausewe have to understand that it is
much.
Cheaper to keep us.
So when you see companiescelebrating that the employee
have been there for 5, 10, 25years, um, that's because it is
(16:47):
cheaper to keep them and it'scheaper for so many different
reasons.
If you bring in.
Um, depending on the role,right?
Like all things being equal,we're gonna depend on the role,
not a person who went frombeing, um, we love the stories
when someone was like thejanitor and now they're the CEO.
But if you stay at a job and youhave incremental raises over
time, more than likely there arepeople who are coming in and
(17:09):
making less than you.
I mean, make it more than youand you're probably making less
because you're just there.
It's not even reallycompounding, right?
So that's another negotiationtool, especially when you're
there, especially when you're aloyal employee.
You've been there, you've doneyour work, a negotiate.
Because oftentimes also, this iskind of like a kind, I was like,
(17:31):
come on in and let me just tellyou a little secret.
Leaders know who is gonna beloyal no matter what.
They know.
They know that you're just sograteful and that you're going
to be there and you're going toaccept the status quo because
they know that they have thatfear.
You have to have your own valueand your own power, because the
(17:54):
question will be, are you seenas a cost or as a priority?
And if you are focused on theretention risk, you'll recognize
that you.
Are more of a priority than acost.
Stoy Hall (18:10):
Absolutely.
Well, let's dive into the, the,your point of view.
'cause we're kind of flirtingwith that already.
Okay.
So let's get outta the mythbusting.
Let's get into your mind whatyou operate with in all of your
experiences on this, on thesenext sets and, and people.
This is something that you needto listen to on a very deep
level.
We've given you a lot of stuffalready, but like this next set
(18:32):
is really going to allow you,hopefully the confidence, but
some of the ability to know whatto do next.
So let's first start with, we'retalking about value.
We're talking about my impact asyour employee type situation,
right?
How does someone that.
Maybe is in a role that isn'tdirect to sales.
(18:54):
Right.
That's very, that'squantifiable.
Very easy.
Yeah.
Right.
Um, what do, how do other peoplesee and say, okay, how do I
quantify my role?
And then how do I present thatas impactful to my management?
Dr. Renee Baker (19:08):
Yeah, this, this is one of the things that
I, we really need to lean intoit because this is one of the
areas that I really strugglewith in the beginning, right?
So when you think about you'requantifying your, um, your
impacts, you are navigating.
Your the politics and you needto have a plan.
(19:29):
So much of these wage gaps are,are unexplained, right?
There's always these hiddenunderground, uh, situations.
We all have this underground.
Most organizations have anunderground culture, right?
And that when I say politics arereal, that's not just what we
see in government.
It's really even inorganizations, right?
(19:50):
So depending on who you are, yousales, like you said, is
quantifiable, but you have to beunderstanding.
You're not going to go into aperformance review, just kinda
listing, I did this, well, I didthis well, what I learned, what
I learned the hard way.
So you don't have to learn isthat.
You have to understand what getsrewarded, what gets uh, done may
(20:13):
get rewarded, but it's not aboutthat.
It's understanding and studyinghow the firm works and what or
what the organization, how theywork, and what they find to be.
Valuable success leavesbreadcrumbs, promotions, leave
breadcrumbs, watch and learn whogets elevated and how.
(20:33):
And then you wanna go in andbuild your plan around outcomes
that your culture rewards.
Not just hard work.
Hard work.
I used to think soy.
I used to think that.
I work hard, nobody can outworkme.
I wore it as a badge.
But let me tell you, there wasno prizes.
Understanding the way yourorganization moves and listen,
(20:56):
some are very clear.
Like if you have very, I'vebeen, or organizations and
worked in firms, that they havevery clear metrics on what it
takes to move to the next.
Level, there's still gonna besome underground, um, un
unstated rules.
There's maybe a little bit ofbias in there, but it was clear.
Then I've also worked atorganizations where you're
(21:17):
thinking, how did this person,I'm you're, scratch your head
off, scratching my head too.
How is this person you'repromoted when I had this laundry
list of things and outcomes thatI've achieved, but yet.
They don't have that.
That's because that's not whatthe value is.
The value may be something else.
So here's what I'll say for theaction for people to do now know
(21:42):
and study your organization.
It is so much value and justkind of being quiet sometimes
and watching how people move.
Ask questions, watch who's beingpromoted.
Watch how they're gettingpromoted.
A lot of times if some of thesepromotions and some of these
companies, they don't even tellyou they tap.
They tap who, who they want, andthen you have to decide if
(22:04):
you're gonna wait to be tappedor you're gonna tap out.
Because the reality is not allorganizations operate the same
when it comes to coming into ameeting.
And don't come into and listen,I don't care which kind of
organization you work into,trust me, you need to show how
what you have done has shown,turned into real.
(22:25):
Outcomes for the organization.
And it's not just the minimum.
If the objective of your jobdescription is okay, I'm going
to meet with so many clients peryear.
Okay.
And so what, and I met withthose clients.
I exceeded that, and here arethe outcomes that came from it.
Too often we walk into meetingswith PowerPoint presentations to
(22:46):
tell people how great we are,and they already made a
decision.
You talking about, you'retalking about PowerPoint
presentation.
Other people are talking aboutprofits, so you need to make
sure you're not walking into ameeting.
With a PowerPoint presentationand telling them how great you
are, you need to be walking in.
Here's the outcomes I achieved.
Here's the bottom line that Iachieved.
Here's how I've done it inconjunction to what they said.
(23:10):
And here's a tricky thing.
Most organizations will alsosay, do a self evaluation.
Just tell, tell me aboutyourself and listen, I, I used
to be that person I, I learnedso you don't have to.
You going into thatself-evaluation and saying, I
did this.
I, I had this great campaign, Idid this.
No, that is not the way to doit.
(23:32):
Trust me.
I wish I knew this sooner.
You need to understand thedynamics of how people work.
That's why when you go into, youknow, when you start your
performance evaluation and yourselfie washed evaluation, when
you have one-on-ones with your,your leader every month or every
two weeks, make sure they have'em.
If they don't have'em, that'salso a signal.
Pay attention to thebreadcrumbs.
(23:53):
If they don't wanna meet withyou, pay attention to the
breadcrumbs.
Not walking into those meetingsasking well, or just with a
laundry list of here's what Idid, here's what I did, here's
what I did.
Start asking questions.
How can I further our goalswithin the organization?
What are some of the outcomesthat you're hoping to achieve
that I can help to support you?
I used to ask, how do peopleperceive me when I'm not in the
(24:14):
room?
Right?
Like, start asking realquestions and maybe listen more
than you speak.
In those situations, becausethere's a lot when you have a
MA, and I've had these type of,I'll call them managers, not
leaders, but I've had those typeof individuals who will just not
give you anything.
They're not giving you anythingthat's also a breadcrumb.
They're telling you that theydon't value you and you can,
(24:37):
I've done a lot of work forpeople who just didn't see me
and they were not going to.
Give me my, just do.
No matter what I said and did,so I had to make a decision.
I wasn't gonna be tapped.
So I needed to tap out and it isokay.
It's not failure.
I always say Now, I used tothink that.
Quitters never win.
Now I say winners know when toquit.
(24:58):
And what's one of my favoritesongs is, um, the Gambler.
When you gotta know When to holdthem, know when to fold them,
know when to walk away, and knowwhen to run.
That's when it is, you know, uh,the breadcrumbs is happening all
year round.
So don't wait.
Please don't wait until the endof the year to start having
these conversations.
Keep folders of your successes.
Um, a lot of times, um, I neverfelt comfortable.
(25:22):
Uh, advocating or, or I remembersomebody saying, uh, be humble.
That meant be quiet becauseyou're running too much.
And I, and I, I turned that onits head.
But the reality is you need tobe keeping, the scorecard is
always rolling.
You need to be acting as ifyou're going to performance
review every time you're meetingwith your leader or your
manager.
(25:42):
And if you have a great manager,they will guide you.
But if they don't, that's abreadcrumb.
So pay attention.
To the breadcrumbs, navigate thepolitics because it's more
politics than performanceoftentimes.
And I wish, I wish somebodyhelped me understand that
sooner.
But quantifying your impact isgonna be different things to
(26:04):
different individuals.
And sometimes your impact isjust how you play the game.
Stoy Hall (26:08):
Yeah.
And that's it.
It's key.
It's a game.
It's a game.
It's a game.
You gotta understand it's thegame and you're playing it no
matter if you know you'replaying it or not.
And so you need to understandthat.
And I also want to throw ininitiative and having
initiative.
So once you've, you've learnedthe culture, you figure it out
how things are operating, whodoes what, and what they're
(26:29):
looking for is then to take theinitiative on certain things and
just do it.
Dr. Renee Baker (26:34):
Yes.
Just
Stoy Hall (26:34):
get it done.
Right.
Because then when you ask, yourmanager comes and says, Hey, I
was thinking we need to do this.
You just say, I've already doneit, it's done here.
That provides a lot more foryou.
However, caveat to that, don'talways do the initiative stuff.
Don't do too much.
Right.
It's a balancing act.
'cause it's a game.
You need to give them a littlebit, a little taste.
(26:55):
Yes.
Be like, Hey, I can Yep, yep.
See Uhhuh, you're gonna have topay me more.
You, you're gonna have to changemy title.
You, whatever that scenario isfor you, you gotta play that
game.
So I, I love that you called ita game.
Dr. Renee Baker (27:06):
Yeah.
It's a, it's a game.
And I, I wish that, you know.
They say Don't hate the player,hate the game, but don't hate
the game.
Play it.
Um, and once you learn how toplay it and you bring that, that
validation and you execute.
'cause can't nobody argue with,with somebody to execute.
But like you said, I remembersomebody specifically telling
me, you do too much.
(27:27):
Stop doing too much.
You do too much.
And that wasn't just me beingtoo much, it was like I'm
working way too hard and Ididn't pay attention at first.
And then they came back and theysaid, you're doing too much.
That's your problem.
And I said, okay, I get it.
So stop waiting for somebodyelse to notice you also is'cause
you're giving away your power.
Be that person.
(27:48):
But don't, don't too, do toomuch.
And every game and every cultureis different and everything that
you do along the way is leavingyou data.
Date about the culture, date,about the politics and data,
about whether or not you needthe whole fold, walk away or
run.
Stoy Hall (28:02):
And there's another key part to this and, and this
is where we'll end this segmentis when we didn't talk much
about this at all.
Mm-hmm.
Is the title in some corporatesettings, the title
automatically comes with equitycomp, all the things.
Um, talk to us a little moreabout title.
'cause I'm not a title person.
I don't give two shits abouttitles.
(28:23):
Don't care.
Don't ever care about it.
But I know in the corporatesetting, like specific titles
come with specific things.
Yes.
And so sometimes it's not aboutasking for a comp or some equity
or any of that.
It's trying to ask and get inthe pipeline of the right title
because that title thenautomatically comes with those.
Dr. Renee Baker (28:41):
Oh yeah.
I mean, and I've never heardanybody that has a title say
that titles don't matter.
It's usually the ones who, Imean, I'll say, I was like, I
used to say, well, titles don'tmatter.
You can call me whatever youwant, just pay me.
But here's why.
Here's how, why It does matterin certain situations.
Because the reality is datasthey drive pay bands, right?
(29:02):
Like those titles do that.
Recruiters, like, if you havethe wrong title, I remember
working at a firm, the titlemeant something different.
Um, recruiting filters.
You know, people are lookingright?
So that matters.
And it's that externalcredibility.
You have to have some gravitasand when you show up, so it
matters to people.
That's why people say to you, sowhat do you do?
(29:23):
What is your title?
Where did you go to school?
They're looking for ways to, tovalidate you, and sometimes the
title will do that.
And influence is sometimesinvisible without that title
being attached to it.
So securing the title is notabout ego.
And when somebody says, uh, redflag.
Titles don't matter.
Red flag.
(29:43):
They're only telling you thatbecause they want you to think
smaller.
It's not about ego, it's aboutequity, and it's about
protecting your future, futureproofing yourself, protecting
your future, your earnings, yourmobility, and the seat at the
next table.
I had a career coach tell meonce that whenever you're
looking for a new role, you'renot looking for the next role.
You actually position yourselffor the role after that.
(30:05):
So you all know kind of leapfrogand, and think ahead.
Position yourself ahead.
So influence gets you a pause,applause.
Titles will get you access andthat's why uh, titles matter in
certain spaces and, and we're infinance story and you know.
You are gonna have a verydifferent conversation with an
(30:26):
associate versus the managingdirector or the head of, or the
senior vice president of, andtitles matter and different
things.
You have senior vice presidentsthat are technically should be
associates, but that don't worryabout that.
All we know is that their titleis giving them access, so don't
play with that title if they'regonna.
(30:46):
Gimme the title, sometimes gimmethe title, um, and, uh, I'll,
I'll make it work for me.
So yes, titles, they, they domatter.
And every time a person saysthat titles don't matter,
they're never the ones thatdon't have it already.
Stoy Hall (31:00):
Exactly.
You about killed me with that.
Senior vice president stuff.
Banks are the worst with titles,folks.
They have, they have big namesfor people that are essentially
just frontline associates.
That's right.
Let's be real.
You got so many damn layers, somany vice presidents of, of name
the department and you're like,come on now,
Dr. Renee Baker (31:20):
come on now.
And, and, and here's what I, Iwanna say too, because I was
just having this conversationwith one of my mentees.
Titles don't cost them anything.
So if they're gonna tell youthat, okay, you don't have the
money.
Okay, gimme the title becausethen I know I can, what I can do
with the title.
And they're, listen to thislike, Renee, stop.
Don't tell them, then gimme thetitle.
(31:41):
I'll work that title becausethen I can leverage that to get
the money.
But if you telling me no moneyand no title titles don't cost
organizations in the thing,they'll tell you that, oh, um,
oh, we can't, we can't give youthat title, please.
Meanwhile, they just dropping.
Senior vice president, head oftwo people who were like barely
(32:04):
outta college.
Right?
Absolutely.
Stoy Hall (32:05):
So, yeah,
Dr. Renee Baker (32:07):
absolutely.
Stoy Hall (32:08):
Well, I love di diving into your brain.
I can't wait to keep doing that,but let's, let's leave everyone
with, uh, a co a coupleactionable steps here.
Yes.
Um, and I think at least thisone we might get to the other,
but I think this is the mostimportant one because as humans,
this is the hardest thing todeal with when we get told no.
Oh, and you're gonna hear nomore often than you hear.
(32:29):
Yes.
So what are some actionablesteps when you have you, you've
prepped everything.
You, you've, you've done yourPowerPoint, please don't do
PowerPoint.
Uh, you've br or you broughteverything to the table, showed
your value.
Um, maybe you asked for title,maybe you just asked for comp.
Who knows?
But you get told no.
What should the immediate nextsteps be?
Dr. Renee Baker (32:50):
Uh, so let's say, say if no.
So I believe if no, that means.
Not now.
Is that the beginning of notnow.
Like, because no one's in bothof those?
Not now.
Um, so if no, then, okay.
Okay.
And so let's document atimeline.
So what's the, what's thecriteria to get me to, yes.
(33:12):
If not now, when, if not me.
Who?
So if not now, then you need to,you need to get a clear timeline
of, of when, and pay attentionto this because some places,
some individuals, some leaders.
Not all will string you along.
Some people honor that.
So you have to decide whether ornot that no means ultimately a
(33:33):
yes.
And if it does, they will helpyou map out a timeline.
I've never met anyone who wantsyou to win, not help you win.
And if not, evaluate whetherthis role still aligns with your
career path.
Because also know this,sometimes it's no.
But if you take this job thattakes you way off of your, your
desired outcomes and they'restaring you.
(33:57):
Down the wrong path and don't beso thirsty that you willing to
drink from any title, any cup.
So no.
Sometimes that gives you thedata that you need and no will
tell you if it's not the no.
It's what comes after the no.
So just to wrap it up, if it'sno, it is okay if not now when,
(34:19):
let's map out a timeframe.
Okay.
And then honor that.
If they tell you six months, Iwould be on that every, every
month.
Okay, where are we?
How are we working?
Are we closer?
Are we getting there?
Um, and if they don't, then youneed to use that again as data.
This is a breadcrumb and youneed to evaluate if this aligns
with your career path, becausenotes doesn't mean never to me.
(34:41):
It might be not yet, or it mightbe.
Uh, not now, but it's not yet.
It's also not now.
But it might be that not foryou.
So unless you let it become aalways No, it is just data to
give you a roadmap to figure outNo, no to you or no to me.
Because if not, no.
(35:01):
To me, it's gonna be a yes tome.
It might be a no to you when Imove on outta here, but I say
that with respect'cause that'snot for everybody.
But you know, I, I have a, I'vehad a lot of great leaders who
said, we can't do that right nowbecause of politics mostly, but
let's map out a timeline andhere's some things that you can
do to win.
So ask for that feedback.
Stoy Hall (35:24):
Ask Absolutely.
And use it that way, folks.
Yes.
Don't get emotional about the,no.
You're gonna get emotional, butdon't be stuck on it.
Learn from it and continue on.
Well.
Renee, I appreciate you always,always do.
Um, do you got anything going onin the RBI group right now?
Like anything coming out?
Anything hot new for, uh, thisholiday season?
Dr. Renee Baker (35:43):
Oh, yeah.
Well, there's so much.
There's always things going onin the RBI group and in the RBI
world.
Uh, but the reality is we areleaning heavily into ways that
we can help individuals andadvisors grow, right?
Grow their business where we'releaning heavily into, um.
Technology, uh, AI is one ofthem.
(36:04):
And I always say emergingTechnolo technologies because
even if you're not an AI person,it is showing up everywhere.
So we're really leaning intothat.
And, you know, and personally, Ihave a book coming out called
Abundance Unleash, which willbe, uh, released uh, in about a
month.
So, and that, and that talksabout a lot of the topics that
we discussed, my journey and,um, incorporate the lessons that
(36:27):
I learned and how I had to lookthrough.
Abundance, which can sound alittle bit woo, but no, this is
about living a full life andlearn using the, leverage, the
lessons as leverage to live andcreate a life that, that you
love.
But listen, I learned some hard,hard lessons so that you don't
have to.
So that's going on and, youknow, people can always follow
(36:49):
along on, on LinkedIn and go to,uh, the website, which is the
rbi group.com or reneebaker.com.
But yeah, we are, we are alwaysgoing and I'm so excited.
We are in Q4.
Um, but already in our world,we're already in 2026.
Stoy Hall (37:04):
Absolutely.
So everybody, Hey, go get herbook.
Uh, it'll be, I don't know,description.
I might put a button here.
I don't know.
They'll figure it out.
But go get the book for sure andlearn and learn and learn a lot
because as much as we do all ofour content and we keep
speaking, we do all this stuff,it's because we don't want you
to go through what we wentthrough and we don't want you to
learn our way.
(37:24):
Now we all have to learn our ownhard ways, but let make it a
little easier for yourself.
And, and just pay attention alittle bit.
So, again, appreciate you getour book.
Um, until next time.
Black Mammoth (37:49):
The proceeding program was sponsored by Black
Mammoth.
Any awards, rankings, orrecognition by unaffiliated
third parties or publicationsare in no way indicative of the
advisor's future performance orany individual client's
investment success.
No award ranking or recognitionshould be construed as a current
or past endorsement of blackmammoth.
(38:10):
Information regarding specificawards, rankings, or
recognitions is available on theBlack Mammoth website, www.black
mammoth.com.
All investment strategies havethe potential for profit or loss
Investment strategies such asasset allocation,
diversification, or rebalancingdo not assure or guarantee
(38:31):
better performance and cannoteliminate the risk of investment
losses.
There are no guarantees that aportfolio employing these or any
other strategy will outperform aportfolio that does not engage
in such strategies.
This broadcast should not beconstrued by any client or
prospective client as asolicitation to affect or
attempt to affect transactionsand securities or the rendering
(38:54):
of personalized investmentadvice due to various factors
including changing marketconditions.
The information discussed inthis broadcast may no longer be
reflective of current positionsor recommendations.
Information presented isbelieved to be factual and up to
date.
Black mammoth do not guaranteeits accuracy and it should not
be regarded as a completeanalysis of the subjects
(39:16):
discussed.
The tax and the state planninginformation discussed is general
in nature and is provided forinformational purposes only and
should not be construed as legalor tax advice.
Listeners should consult anattorney or tax professional
regarding their specific legalor tax situation.
Past performance is notindicative of future results.
Well then it's time.
Stoy Hall (00:29):
Our career moves that raise negotiations, promotions,
makes kind, wanna vomit a littlebit.
You don't really know how totalk about it.
You don't even know if you trulyare valued enough to ask for it.
Well, hey, today's episode we'regonna get in all to that with
Dr.
Renee Baker'cause she's amazing.
She has that background from thecorporate world and there's no
better time to start thinkingabout it as we go into the next
(00:51):
year and preparing yourself forthat conversation.
So Renee, welcome back.
Dr. Renee Baker (00:56):
Oh, thank you so much for having me.
Soy.
This is such an important topicand I'm glad to be here to share
just a bit of my perspective onit.
Stoy Hall (01:06):
So let's, let's dive right into it and let's go from
kind of the top part of it,right, with, with the, the
corporate side of things andwhat they think around this
time.
So, q depending on obviously,when their, their fiscal year
ends, but let's go withtraditional.
This is Q4.
We got Q1 coming up.
Where are they at in thethinking of, okay, I've got
these employees that are comingup on their annuals or their
(01:28):
five year or whatever, where'stheir brain at, um, in terms of
comp and and comp structure now?
Dr. Renee Baker (01:35):
Yeah, so, um, like you said, it, it depends
and I think we, we really needto start looking at this time of
the year as the, the leveragewindow, right?
We need to start really thinkingabout.
Our value beyond our, our jobdescription.
So here's the reality.
I wanna just set the stage and,and answer your question, but
here's the reality.
(01:56):
Um, and I'm gonna speak from thelens of Mia as as a woman.
Um, women are still earningabout 83, 80 4 cents.
Per dollar compared to men evenin the same occupation.
Okay.
The data is out there, and whenwe think about it, no matter man
or woman, the one thing that isnot going to get away from us is
(02:16):
inflation.
And that is the one thing that'sgonna magnify the gap because
essentials your childcare, uh,food, gas, um, housing takes a
lot of our pay.
So to your question, the yearend is when.
Decisions are made, right?
This is when budgets, um, areusually decided upon based on
(02:38):
where you are.
Um.
If you are an employee who getsequity, that decisions are made.
Um, promotions are usuallylocked in beforehand.
So companies are looking at thisas the opportunity to, what I
say is they will take care ofthe people that they value,
(02:58):
right?
So this is, they're looking atretention risk because another
thing that happens is at the endof the year, um, especially for
those of us that are in finance,and depending on, again.
Um, at some of my companies, theend of the year in December was
when bonuses were paid, right?
So there's that retention risk.
So that's, this is theopportunity, right?
That this is your leverage.
(03:20):
That's why we're gonna call it,this is the leverage window,
because especially now, um,listen, the, the.
People, the cost of rerereplacing talent is like 1.5 to
2% of the salary.
So I don't say that this is thetime to start thinking about it.
This is the time to be about it.
And in, in a way, I'll say thatwe're beyond the, the part of
(03:41):
reflection.
This is now the leverage seasonbecause if you stay silent now.
You are already behind.
And I think if you're juststarting a conversation, you
are, you're behind, you're, youneed to be having these
conversations.
Um, earlier at the beginning ofthe year, and I, and I remember
being, um, in, in a corporateenvironment and not realizing
(04:04):
that that was the case.
I thought that when we wouldhave the conversation around
performance, that's when thedecision was made.
I didn't know.
So once I know better, I, I didbetter.
And I, I want the, the peoplethat are watching that are
listening that to know that thisis an ongoing conversations.
By the time you got to, you getto your performance review, the
(04:27):
decision has been made.
There are people that are havingconversations talking about your
performance all year.
And, um, when they get in theroom and they talk about who is
the better and every, all theleaders are negotiating your
value.
You need to make sure that theyare equipped with the
information that's gonna bestposition you against everyone
(04:49):
else that is competing to retaintheir talent.
So hopefully I answered, uh,your question, but this, we need
to start thinking aboutourselves as valuable all year
round, not just at performanceseason.
Stoy Hall (05:02):
But Renee, I'm afraid with all of uh uh, the jobs
reports coming out, there's somany less jobs.
There's so many more peoplegetting laid off.
There's gonna be a bunch oflayoffs, by the way, coming one.
One.
We see it from Wells Fargo.
We're gonna see it a lot morecome one, one of 2026.
I'm afraid to have thoseconversations.
I'm afraid to show my value andcome say something because you
(05:24):
know I'm gonna get fired.
What do you have to say to that?
Dr. Renee Baker (05:27):
Well, here's what I'll say to that.
I would hope that.
We learn to speak up becausesilence does not pay.
And if you don't advocate foryourself as much as we trust and
you know, love our companies andwe respect and appreciate our
leaders, we are responsible forour own selves.
(05:50):
We are the captain of our ownships.
You are the CEO of you.
And if you.
Remain silent.
If you live in fear, then youare, you are really putting
yourself in one of the worstpositions because listen,
there's a lot of noise out hereand that's why I said we wanna
(06:12):
value ourselves beyond our jobdescriptions.
Even some of the best companies,we believe that we're too big to
fail, have failed, and no job.
Um, listen, the reality is jobsand corporations.
Don't provide as much stabilityas we may trust and think.
(06:33):
And I don't say that to benegative.
I say that for awareness andhopefully what is they?
They say fear is fear ofevidence appearing real.
You don't know what is possibleuntil you speak up and.
I'll say this.
I have been that person.
I have been the person who wasafraid to speak up for myself,
(06:57):
and it never served me.
Trust me, it never served me.
It wasn't until I decided tospeak up and speak out that I.
The value of what I representedstarted to be seen.
So yes, I get it.
But talk to someone that youtrust work I, I, I, it's hard
for me to say, to get over itbecause that's a lot of internal
(07:19):
work, but I promise you, Ipromise you this, I don't care
how great of an employee youare, I don't care how much work
you do, I am here to tell youwhat is not going to be told.
Here's the myth that we aregonna debunk right now.
No one is gonna advocate for youmore than you advocate for
(07:41):
yourself, and if advocating foryourself means that you'll get
removed, take that ad, take thatrejection as protection, and
then go into the nextopportunity with more value.
I understand that that might bea fearful place to be, but we
are in the world.
I say we are already in 2026,and there are so many
(08:01):
opportunities that are untappedand potential opportunities that
we can lean into if we valueourselves enough.
But if we don't value enough,ourselves enough to speak up for
ourselves, then we are alreadyputting ourselves behind and
we're putting ourselves as adisservice.
Stoy Hall (08:20):
We sure are.
Now, as we get into mythbusting, let's, let's continue
that train.
All right, next segment is whatsociety and media are saying.
Let's bust a little bit of thesemyths in these things.
So start with the first one.
This one, this could, Idefinitely, this is like an
older generation one.
I promise you.
'cause when I say it, everyone'sgonna go, yep, yep, that's
right.
That sounds about right.
But here it is.
Just be grateful and wait yourturn.
Dr. Renee Baker (08:42):
Oh, I, I've, oh, um, I, that's not a trigger
anymore because of therapy, buthere's what I'll say.
We have to look into.
We're gonna debunk that as well,because, oh, gratitude.
You just gotta be grateful.
I used to be that person.
I'm just grateful.
I'm just so grateful to, to behere.
(09:03):
This is just such a, a wonderfulculture.
But let's look into the data.
McKenzie 2024, only.
Sense of women are alreadygetting promoted.
So there are people out heredoing more, doing less than what
you do and already beingpromoted.
(09:24):
Right?
So I don't even, let's not makethis about gender.
The reality is we will have to.
Speak up and waiting does notclose the gap.
That's not gonna close the gap.
That's not gonna help you withinflation.
That's not gonna help you with,um, wages.
That's not gonna help you shiftinto who it is that you're
(09:46):
supposed to be.
So gratitude and advocacy cancoexist.
You can be grateful and you canadvocate for yourself.
They can co-exist because whenwe negotiate for ourselves and
we sponsor others, we begin tocreate a ripple effect, and we
start building pathways forourselves and for others.
(10:09):
So listen, gratitude withoutadvocacy is servitude, and you
can be thankful and still makeyour move, but I, I, I can be
grateful.
But I don't have to utilize thatgratitude as a means to
underestimate the value that webring to the table.
Now, I understand that, youknow, a lot of us are taught
(10:31):
that, you know, just begrateful.
You, yeah.
You have a job.
And when you read the reports,right, you're hearing about all
these layoffs.
You know, like, I'm afraid Ihave this fear.
I'm just so grateful.
But let me just tell you, um.
Gratitude is, is, is not gonnapay your bills.
Um, uh, gratitude, especially inthe workplace.
I'm not speaking about gratitudeas a whole, but I'm telling you,
(10:54):
waiting does not close the gap.
And, and I promise you, if Iwould have waited for somebody
to bestow upon me the wait, myturn, I would not be in this
position that I sit in todayowning my power, owning my
space, and owning my voice,because I gotta tell you.
When they tell you that, usuallythey don't, they don't value you
(11:16):
because the people they value,they're not telling that to.
And no one is going to, no oneis going to tell you the truth
about that.
Stoy Hall (11:29):
You're not wrong.
You're not wrong.
And being a business owner,right, we're owners, this is
what we gotta do.
This next one is interesting'cause I think it, it depends,
um, a little bit.
You as a business owner, me as abusiness owner, my clients, like
if we actually said this, wewould provide facts and truth
behind it.
'cause we truly care about ouremployees as close to family as
(11:50):
possible.
However, in majority ofbusinesses in the corporate
world, there's more to this one.
So that being said is you go in,you talk, you have a chat with
your manager, whoever yourbusiness owner, and they go,
raises just aren't possible thisyear.
They're just not possible.
I'm gonna be.
Dr. Renee Baker (12:09):
Kind when I say this and they say, I'm gonna
hold your hand with a napkin inbetween when I tell you this.
Um, let's look at the data.
Let's talk, let's talk about thereality.
Um, that's rarely true acrossthe board.
That is rarely true across theboard.
Have you ever seen an executive,for the most part, not get it
raised by millions?
(12:32):
Look at your annual reports ifyou work for a pub public
company.
How many, how many executives,races are not possible for you,
but executives almost always getadjustments, right?
So, and um, if you think aboutCEO pay that continues to rise
and now listen, we're not, we'renot comparing the two, but the
(12:54):
CEOs, the Fed, we wanna makesure they retain, but.
The CEO pay is outpacinginflation, which is currently
what, what around 2.9%.
So CEOs are getting paid what,13, 14, 15%.
And, and then they're tellingyou that that budgets were, were
too tight?
Um, no.
(13:14):
No.
I, I don't, I don't, no.
If they're telling you thatthere's, I will tell you this,
there's always money.
When they want you, when they,when they, when they value.
And inflation makes it harderfor companies to ignore the
retention risk.
They know that if they lose you,that costs more than adjusting
(13:35):
your salary.
And they only really tell thatpeople if so when they tell you,
raises aren't possible thisyear.
I say this with so much respect.
It is, it's not possible for youand then you need to decide.
When you know better, you dobetter.
And then you need to decide howare you gonna move?
(13:55):
How will you make that move?
Are you gonna choose yourself orare you gonna suffer in in
gratitude?
So we always say pain of gain orpay of same.
I don't know about you story,but I, I think we're on this.
I think we, I can speak for uswhen we say we're on the, we are
on the side of pain of gain andif we have to be a little bit
(14:15):
uncomfortable, dust off thatresume.
If we need to be a little bituncomfortable and start
networking or posting more onLinkedIn or or, or negotiating,
we have to do that because thatis such a myth.
Raises are not.
Possible this year.
The only way I trust that iswhen not one person in an entire
company doesn't get a raise.
(14:38):
Not the CEO just got 13%.
Oh, but raises are not possible.
On my on, on the, what's theaverage salary?
We're like 80,000.
I don't know.
We're in finance, so I alwaysthink six figures, but.
If there it is not possible foryou, but they can get millions
then, then you, they alreadytold you you might not just be
paying attention.
Stoy Hall (14:57):
Yeah, exactly.
They told you, you keep bringingup inflation and I wanna hit
upon this part.
I know we're kind of off ourskirt a little bit, but
inflation.
Inflation means a lot of things.
Yes.
We're talking about it intwofold.
Right now we're talking aboutinflation because of the bills
we all have personally, foodcosts going insane.
Housing's outrageous.
You know, utilities are goingthrough the roof right now too.
(15:20):
We're talking about thatinflation.
But also on the business side,we're talking about inflation.
And I don't mean the logisticsand the materials, I'm talking
about the employee, the thingthat they care about the most
for leverage purposes.
That's right.
And so when you're talking aboutkind of your leverage and, and
your value and it beingleveraged season, really people,
that's what we're talking aboutbecause replace you is going to
(15:40):
cost them more, not in justsalary.
They have to train you, train bemore.
Right?
All of that creates more so it'sactually cheaper for them to
retain you.
Yeah.
Cheaper to keep'em.
You keep right up, right?
Like and you know, you have topeople, we have to understand
that that is the power.
Of which you have.
(16:01):
That's right.
And that is no matter what, likeif you Googled it, look at
Glassdoor, don't care.
The new hires coming in aregoing to make more than you have
right now.
Yes.
And to me, from a negotiationtool, that's a very easy way to
ask for more just immediatelyand just be like, Hey, I provide
value.
You don't have to train me yet.
You're paying me 5, 10, 15,whatever.
The percentage is less than ifyou had to replace me right now.
(16:24):
And that's a really.
Dr. Renee Baker (16:26):
That's a really good point, and I, and, and
thank you soy for, forhighlighting that and, and
framing it in that way becausewe have to understand that it is
much.
Cheaper to keep us.
So when you see companiescelebrating that the employee
have been there for 5, 10, 25years, um, that's because it is
(16:47):
cheaper to keep them and it'scheaper for so many different
reasons.
If you bring in.
Um, depending on the role,right?
Like all things being equal,we're gonna depend on the role,
not a person who went frombeing, um, we love the stories
when someone was like thejanitor and now they're the CEO.
But if you stay at a job and youhave incremental raises over
time, more than likely there arepeople who are coming in and
(17:09):
making less than you.
I mean, make it more than youand you're probably making less
because you're just there.
It's not even reallycompounding, right?
So that's another negotiationtool, especially when you're
there, especially when you're aloyal employee.
You've been there, you've doneyour work, a negotiate.
Because oftentimes also, this iskind of like a kind, I was like,
(17:31):
come on in and let me just tellyou a little secret.
Leaders know who is gonna beloyal no matter what.
They know.
They know that you're just sograteful and that you're going
to be there and you're going toaccept the status quo because
they know that they have thatfear.
You have to have your own valueand your own power, because the
(17:54):
question will be, are you seenas a cost or as a priority?
And if you are focused on theretention risk, you'll recognize
that you.
Are more of a priority than acost.
Stoy Hall (18:10):
Absolutely.
Well, let's dive into the, the,your point of view.
'cause we're kind of flirtingwith that already.
Okay.
So let's get outta the mythbusting.
Let's get into your mind whatyou operate with in all of your
experiences on this, on thesenext sets and, and people.
This is something that you needto listen to on a very deep
level.
We've given you a lot of stuffalready, but like this next set
(18:32):
is really going to allow you,hopefully the confidence, but
some of the ability to know whatto do next.
So let's first start with, we'retalking about value.
We're talking about my impact asyour employee type situation,
right?
How does someone that.
Maybe is in a role that isn'tdirect to sales.
(18:54):
Right.
That's very, that'squantifiable.
Very easy.
Yeah.
Right.
Um, what do, how do other peoplesee and say, okay, how do I
quantify my role?
And then how do I present thatas impactful to my management?
Dr. Renee Baker (19:08):
Yeah, this, this is one of the things that
I, we really need to lean intoit because this is one of the
areas that I really strugglewith in the beginning, right?
So when you think about you'requantifying your, um, your
impacts, you are navigating.
Your the politics and you needto have a plan.
(19:29):
So much of these wage gaps are,are unexplained, right?
There's always these hiddenunderground, uh, situations.
We all have this underground.
Most organizations have anunderground culture, right?
And that when I say politics arereal, that's not just what we
see in government.
It's really even inorganizations, right?
(19:50):
So depending on who you are, yousales, like you said, is
quantifiable, but you have to beunderstanding.
You're not going to go into aperformance review, just kinda
listing, I did this, well, I didthis well, what I learned, what
I learned the hard way.
So you don't have to learn isthat.
You have to understand what getsrewarded, what gets uh, done may
(20:13):
get rewarded, but it's not aboutthat.
It's understanding and studyinghow the firm works and what or
what the organization, how theywork, and what they find to be.
Valuable success leavesbreadcrumbs, promotions, leave
breadcrumbs, watch and learn whogets elevated and how.
(20:33):
And then you wanna go in andbuild your plan around outcomes
that your culture rewards.
Not just hard work.
Hard work.
I used to think soy.
I used to think that.
I work hard, nobody can outworkme.
I wore it as a badge.
But let me tell you, there wasno prizes.
Understanding the way yourorganization moves and listen,
(20:56):
some are very clear.
Like if you have very, I'vebeen, or organizations and
worked in firms, that they havevery clear metrics on what it
takes to move to the next.
Level, there's still gonna besome underground, um, un
unstated rules.
There's maybe a little bit ofbias in there, but it was clear.
Then I've also worked atorganizations where you're
(21:17):
thinking, how did this person,I'm you're, scratch your head
off, scratching my head too.
How is this person you'repromoted when I had this laundry
list of things and outcomes thatI've achieved, but yet.
They don't have that.
That's because that's not whatthe value is.
The value may be something else.
So here's what I'll say for theaction for people to do now know
(21:42):
and study your organization.
It is so much value and justkind of being quiet sometimes
and watching how people move.
Ask questions, watch who's beingpromoted.
Watch how they're gettingpromoted.
A lot of times if some of thesepromotions and some of these
companies, they don't even tellyou they tap.
They tap who, who they want, andthen you have to decide if
(22:04):
you're gonna wait to be tappedor you're gonna tap out.
Because the reality is not allorganizations operate the same
when it comes to coming into ameeting.
And don't come into and listen,I don't care which kind of
organization you work into,trust me, you need to show how
what you have done has shown,turned into real.
(22:25):
Outcomes for the organization.
And it's not just the minimum.
If the objective of your jobdescription is okay, I'm going
to meet with so many clients peryear.
Okay.
And so what, and I met withthose clients.
I exceeded that, and here arethe outcomes that came from it.
Too often we walk into meetingswith PowerPoint presentations to
(22:46):
tell people how great we are,and they already made a
decision.
You talking about, you'retalking about PowerPoint
presentation.
Other people are talking aboutprofits, so you need to make
sure you're not walking into ameeting.
With a PowerPoint presentationand telling them how great you
are, you need to be walking in.
Here's the outcomes I achieved.
Here's the bottom line that Iachieved.
Here's how I've done it inconjunction to what they said.
(23:10):
And here's a tricky thing.
Most organizations will alsosay, do a self evaluation.
Just tell, tell me aboutyourself and listen, I, I used
to be that person I, I learnedso you don't have to.
You going into thatself-evaluation and saying, I
did this.
I, I had this great campaign, Idid this.
No, that is not the way to doit.
(23:32):
Trust me.
I wish I knew this sooner.
You need to understand thedynamics of how people work.
That's why when you go into, youknow, when you start your
performance evaluation and yourselfie washed evaluation, when
you have one-on-ones with your,your leader every month or every
two weeks, make sure they have'em.
If they don't have'em, that'salso a signal.
Pay attention to thebreadcrumbs.
(23:53):
If they don't wanna meet withyou, pay attention to the
breadcrumbs.
Not walking into those meetingsasking well, or just with a
laundry list of here's what Idid, here's what I did, here's
what I did.
Start asking questions.
How can I further our goalswithin the organization?
What are some of the outcomesthat you're hoping to achieve
that I can help to support you?
I used to ask, how do peopleperceive me when I'm not in the
(24:14):
room?
Right?
Like, start asking realquestions and maybe listen more
than you speak.
In those situations, becausethere's a lot when you have a
MA, and I've had these type of,I'll call them managers, not
leaders, but I've had those typeof individuals who will just not
give you anything.
They're not giving you anythingthat's also a breadcrumb.
They're telling you that theydon't value you and you can,
(24:37):
I've done a lot of work forpeople who just didn't see me
and they were not going to.
Give me my, just do.
No matter what I said and did,so I had to make a decision.
I wasn't gonna be tapped.
So I needed to tap out and it isokay.
It's not failure.
I always say Now, I used tothink that.
Quitters never win.
Now I say winners know when toquit.
(24:58):
And what's one of my favoritesongs is, um, the Gambler.
When you gotta know When to holdthem, know when to fold them,
know when to walk away, and knowwhen to run.
That's when it is, you know, uh,the breadcrumbs is happening all
year round.
So don't wait.
Please don't wait until the endof the year to start having
these conversations.
Keep folders of your successes.
Um, a lot of times, um, I neverfelt comfortable.
(25:22):
Uh, advocating or, or I remembersomebody saying, uh, be humble.
That meant be quiet becauseyou're running too much.
And I, and I, I turned that onits head.
But the reality is you need tobe keeping, the scorecard is
always rolling.
You need to be acting as ifyou're going to performance
review every time you're meetingwith your leader or your
manager.
(25:42):
And if you have a great manager,they will guide you.
But if they don't, that's abreadcrumb.
So pay attention.
To the breadcrumbs, navigate thepolitics because it's more
politics than performanceoftentimes.
And I wish, I wish somebodyhelped me understand that
sooner.
But quantifying your impact isgonna be different things to
(26:04):
different individuals.
And sometimes your impact isjust how you play the game.
Stoy Hall (26:08):
Yeah.
And that's it.
It's key.
It's a game.
It's a game.
It's a game.
You gotta understand it's thegame and you're playing it no
matter if you know you'replaying it or not.
And so you need to understandthat.
And I also want to throw ininitiative and having
initiative.
So once you've, you've learnedthe culture, you figure it out
how things are operating, whodoes what, and what they're
(26:29):
looking for is then to take theinitiative on certain things and
just do it.
Dr. Renee Baker (26:34):
Yes.
Just
Stoy Hall (26:34):
get it done.
Right.
Because then when you ask, yourmanager comes and says, Hey, I
was thinking we need to do this.
You just say, I've already doneit, it's done here.
That provides a lot more foryou.
However, caveat to that, don'talways do the initiative stuff.
Don't do too much.
Right.
It's a balancing act.
'cause it's a game.
You need to give them a littlebit, a little taste.
(26:55):
Yes.
Be like, Hey, I can Yep, yep.
See Uhhuh, you're gonna have topay me more.
You, you're gonna have to changemy title.
You, whatever that scenario isfor you, you gotta play that
game.
So I, I love that you called ita game.
Dr. Renee Baker (27:06):
Yeah.
It's a, it's a game.
And I, I wish that, you know.
They say Don't hate the player,hate the game, but don't hate
the game.
Play it.
Um, and once you learn how toplay it and you bring that, that
validation and you execute.
'cause can't nobody argue with,with somebody to execute.
But like you said, I remembersomebody specifically telling
me, you do too much.
(27:27):
Stop doing too much.
You do too much.
And that wasn't just me beingtoo much, it was like I'm
working way too hard and Ididn't pay attention at first.
And then they came back and theysaid, you're doing too much.
That's your problem.
And I said, okay, I get it.
So stop waiting for somebodyelse to notice you also is'cause
you're giving away your power.
Be that person.
(27:48):
But don't, don't too, do toomuch.
And every game and every cultureis different and everything that
you do along the way is leavingyou data.
Date about the culture, date,about the politics and data,
about whether or not you needthe whole fold, walk away or
run.
Stoy Hall (28:02):
And there's another key part to this and, and this
is where we'll end this segmentis when we didn't talk much
about this at all.
Mm-hmm.
Is the title in some corporatesettings, the title
automatically comes with equitycomp, all the things.
Um, talk to us a little moreabout title.
'cause I'm not a title person.
I don't give two shits abouttitles.
(28:23):
Don't care.
Don't ever care about it.
But I know in the corporatesetting, like specific titles
come with specific things.
Yes.
And so sometimes it's not aboutasking for a comp or some equity
or any of that.
It's trying to ask and get inthe pipeline of the right title
because that title thenautomatically comes with those.
Dr. Renee Baker (28:41):
Oh yeah.
I mean, and I've never heardanybody that has a title say
that titles don't matter.
It's usually the ones who, Imean, I'll say, I was like, I
used to say, well, titles don'tmatter.
You can call me whatever youwant, just pay me.
But here's why.
Here's how, why It does matterin certain situations.
Because the reality is datasthey drive pay bands, right?
(29:02):
Like those titles do that.
Recruiters, like, if you havethe wrong title, I remember
working at a firm, the titlemeant something different.
Um, recruiting filters.
You know, people are lookingright?
So that matters.
And it's that externalcredibility.
You have to have some gravitasand when you show up, so it
matters to people.
That's why people say to you, sowhat do you do?
(29:23):
What is your title?
Where did you go to school?
They're looking for ways to, tovalidate you, and sometimes the
title will do that.
And influence is sometimesinvisible without that title
being attached to it.
So securing the title is notabout ego.
And when somebody says, uh, redflag.
Titles don't matter.
Red flag.
(29:43):
They're only telling you thatbecause they want you to think
smaller.
It's not about ego, it's aboutequity, and it's about
protecting your future, futureproofing yourself, protecting
your future, your earnings, yourmobility, and the seat at the
next table.
I had a career coach tell meonce that whenever you're
looking for a new role, you'renot looking for the next role.
You actually position yourselffor the role after that.
(30:05):
So you all know kind of leapfrogand, and think ahead.
Position yourself ahead.
So influence gets you a pause,applause.
Titles will get you access andthat's why uh, titles matter in
certain spaces and, and we're infinance story and you know.
You are gonna have a verydifferent conversation with an
(30:26):
associate versus the managingdirector or the head of, or the
senior vice president of, andtitles matter and different
things.
You have senior vice presidentsthat are technically should be
associates, but that don't worryabout that.
All we know is that their titleis giving them access, so don't
play with that title if they'regonna.
(30:46):
Gimme the title, sometimes gimmethe title, um, and, uh, I'll,
I'll make it work for me.
So yes, titles, they, they domatter.
And every time a person saysthat titles don't matter,
they're never the ones thatdon't have it already.
Stoy Hall (31:00):
Exactly.
You about killed me with that.
Senior vice president stuff.
Banks are the worst with titles,folks.
They have, they have big namesfor people that are essentially
just frontline associates.
That's right.
Let's be real.
You got so many damn layers, somany vice presidents of, of name
the department and you're like,come on now,
Dr. Renee Baker (31:20):
come on now.
And, and, and here's what I, Iwanna say too, because I was
just having this conversationwith one of my mentees.
Titles don't cost them anything.
So if they're gonna tell youthat, okay, you don't have the
money.
Okay, gimme the title becausethen I know I can, what I can do
with the title.
And they're, listen to thislike, Renee, stop.
Don't tell them, then gimme thetitle.
(31:41):
I'll work that title becausethen I can leverage that to get
the money.
But if you telling me no moneyand no title titles don't cost
organizations in the thing,they'll tell you that, oh, um,
oh, we can't, we can't give youthat title, please.
Meanwhile, they just dropping.
Senior vice president, head oftwo people who were like barely
(32:04):
outta college.
Right?
Absolutely.
Stoy Hall (32:05):
So, yeah,
Dr. Renee Baker (32:07):
absolutely.
Stoy Hall (32:08):
Well, I love di diving into your brain.
I can't wait to keep doing that,but let's, let's leave everyone
with, uh, a co a coupleactionable steps here.
Yes.
Um, and I think at least thisone we might get to the other,
but I think this is the mostimportant one because as humans,
this is the hardest thing todeal with when we get told no.
Oh, and you're gonna hear nomore often than you hear.
(32:29):
Yes.
So what are some actionablesteps when you have you, you've
prepped everything.
You, you've, you've done yourPowerPoint, please don't do
PowerPoint.
Uh, you've br or you broughteverything to the table, showed
your value.
Um, maybe you asked for title,maybe you just asked for comp.
Who knows?
But you get told no.
What should the immediate nextsteps be?
Dr. Renee Baker (32:50):
Uh, so let's say, say if no.
So I believe if no, that means.
Not now.
Is that the beginning of notnow.
Like, because no one's in bothof those?
Not now.
Um, so if no, then, okay.
Okay.
And so let's document atimeline.
So what's the, what's thecriteria to get me to, yes.
(33:12):
If not now, when, if not me.
Who?
So if not now, then you need to,you need to get a clear timeline
of, of when, and pay attentionto this because some places,
some individuals, some leaders.
Not all will string you along.
Some people honor that.
So you have to decide whether ornot that no means ultimately a
(33:33):
yes.
And if it does, they will helpyou map out a timeline.
I've never met anyone who wantsyou to win, not help you win.
And if not, evaluate whetherthis role still aligns with your
career path.
Because also know this,sometimes it's no.
But if you take this job thattakes you way off of your, your
desired outcomes and they'restaring you.
(33:57):
Down the wrong path and don't beso thirsty that you willing to
drink from any title, any cup.
So no.
Sometimes that gives you thedata that you need and no will
tell you if it's not the no.
It's what comes after the no.
So just to wrap it up, if it'sno, it is okay if not now when,
(34:19):
let's map out a timeframe.
Okay.
And then honor that.
If they tell you six months, Iwould be on that every, every
month.
Okay, where are we?
How are we working?
Are we closer?
Are we getting there?
Um, and if they don't, then youneed to use that again as data.
This is a breadcrumb and youneed to evaluate if this aligns
with your career path, becausenotes doesn't mean never to me.
(34:41):
It might be not yet, or it mightbe.
Uh, not now, but it's not yet.
It's also not now.
But it might be that not foryou.
So unless you let it become aalways No, it is just data to
give you a roadmap to figure outNo, no to you or no to me.
Because if not, no.
(35:01):
To me, it's gonna be a yes tome.
It might be a no to you when Imove on outta here, but I say
that with respect'cause that'snot for everybody.
But you know, I, I have a, I'vehad a lot of great leaders who
said, we can't do that right nowbecause of politics mostly, but
let's map out a timeline andhere's some things that you can
do to win.
So ask for that feedback.
Stoy Hall (35:24):
Ask Absolutely.
And use it that way, folks.
Yes.
Don't get emotional about the,no.
You're gonna get emotional, butdon't be stuck on it.
Learn from it and continue on.
Well.
Renee, I appreciate you always,always do.
Um, do you got anything going onin the RBI group right now?
Like anything coming out?
Anything hot new for, uh, thisholiday season?
Dr. Renee Baker (35:43):
Oh, yeah.
Well, there's so much.
There's always things going onin the RBI group and in the RBI
world.
Uh, but the reality is we areleaning heavily into ways that
we can help individuals andadvisors grow, right?
Grow their business where we'releaning heavily into, um.
Technology, uh, AI is one ofthem.
(36:04):
And I always say emergingTechnolo technologies because
even if you're not an AI person,it is showing up everywhere.
So we're really leaning intothat.
And, you know, and personally, Ihave a book coming out called
Abundance Unleash, which willbe, uh, released uh, in about a
month.
So, and that, and that talksabout a lot of the topics that
we discussed, my journey and,um, incorporate the lessons that
(36:27):
I learned and how I had to lookthrough.
Abundance, which can sound alittle bit woo, but no, this is
about living a full life andlearn using the, leverage, the
lessons as leverage to live andcreate a life that, that you
love.
But listen, I learned some hard,hard lessons so that you don't
have to.
So that's going on and, youknow, people can always follow
(36:49):
along on, on LinkedIn and go to,uh, the website, which is the
rbi group.com or reneebaker.com.
But yeah, we are, we are alwaysgoing and I'm so excited.
We are in Q4.
Um, but already in our world,we're already in 2026.
Stoy Hall (37:04):
Absolutely.
So everybody, Hey, go get herbook.
Uh, it'll be, I don't know,description.
I might put a button here.
I don't know.
They'll figure it out.
But go get the book for sure andlearn and learn and learn a lot
because as much as we do all ofour content and we keep
speaking, we do all this stuff,it's because we don't want you
to go through what we wentthrough and we don't want you to
learn our way.
(37:24):
Now we all have to learn our ownhard ways, but let make it a
little easier for yourself.
And, and just pay attention alittle bit.
So, again, appreciate you getour book.
Um, until next time.
Black Mammoth (37:49):
The proceeding program was sponsored by Black
Mammoth.
Any awards, rankings, orrecognition by unaffiliated
third parties or publicationsare in no way indicative of the
advisor's future performance orany individual client's
investment success.
No award ranking or recognitionshould be construed as a current
or past endorsement of blackmammoth.
(38:10):
Information regarding specificawards, rankings, or
recognitions is available on theBlack Mammoth website, www.black
mammoth.com.
All investment strategies havethe potential for profit or loss
Investment strategies such asasset allocation,
diversification, or rebalancingdo not assure or guarantee
(38:31):
better performance and cannoteliminate the risk of investment
losses.
There are no guarantees that aportfolio employing these or any
other strategy will outperform aportfolio that does not engage
in such strategies.
This broadcast should not beconstrued by any client or
prospective client as asolicitation to affect or
attempt to affect transactionsand securities or the rendering
(38:54):
of personalized investmentadvice due to various factors
including changing marketconditions.
The information discussed inthis broadcast may no longer be
reflective of current positionsor recommendations.
Information presented isbelieved to be factual and up to
date.
Black mammoth do not guaranteeits accuracy and it should not
be regarded as a completeanalysis of the subjects
(39:16):
discussed.
The tax and the state planninginformation discussed is general
in nature and is provided forinformational purposes only and
should not be construed as legalor tax advice.
Listeners should consult anattorney or tax professional
regarding their specific legalor tax situation.
Past performance is notindicative of future results.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. My Favorite Murder is part of the Exactly Right podcast network that provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including historic true crime, comedic interviews and news, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.