November 26, 2025 • 32 mins
This one’s for anyone walking into Thanksgiving with a pit in their stomach about money. You know the drill: old stories, old roles, and fresh triggers. I brought financial therapist Rachel Duncan back to help us keep it real at the table—and keep our dignity intact.
We break down why holidays wake up your oldest money wiring. Families “snap you back” into your teenage self, and your money beliefs? Most of them got stamped on you by age eight. If you’ve ever felt “14 again” at Mom’s house, you’re not crazy—your nervous system just time-traveled.
Then we torch the shame cycle. Shame says “I am bad.” Guilt says “I did something I don’t like—and I can change it.” That shift matters because guilt leads to action. We walk through how to swap shame for guilt and actually move forward.
We also hit boundaries—the real kind. A healthy boundary isn’t a fight; it’s clarity about what you will do. We show you how to feel when a boundary gets crossed, redirect explosive moments without stonewalling, and stop people-pleasing without burning the house down.
Finally, Rachel gives a practical ritual you can actually use this week: a daily “pleasure practice” to reconnect you to yourself. Do one small thing that makes you feel human. It’ll do more for your money than any spreadsheet ever could. Yes, really.
Watch the full episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/lXnvkBWjGas
As always we ask you to comment, DM, whatever it takes to have a conversation to help you take the next step in your journey, reach out on any platform!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Rachel Duncan (00:22):
Well then it's time.
Stoy Hall (00:29):
It is Thanksgiving time everybody.
And what better way to, I guess,come together as a family unit
than bringing up all the oldstories and stressors and things
that we all go through?
Because it happens we're family.
Can't really avoid it.
Gotta deal with it.
But today we got Rachel Duncanon, which you guys have seen her
previous episode.
We're gonna dive into sometechniques, some thoughts, some
(00:51):
things around coming homeThanksgiving money.
Et cetera.
So, Rachel, uh, welcome back.
Thanks for having
Rachel Duncan (01:00):
Meto.
Stoy Hall (01:02):
Yes.
And so this is just a fun timeof the year for me.
I, I just love it because yousee all the stories, things pop
up and it, it just gets crazyfor us all.
But why is it that.
During this timeframe around thetable, you're with your family.
Why do money triggers happenaround this timeframe?
(01:23):
Like what, what really happensthat brings it out of everybody?
Rachel Duncan (01:28):
Well, to like roll things way back, the reason
why your family pushes yourbuttons is because they put them
there.
They put those buttons there sothey know exactly right.
All subconscious, no one'sintentionally pushing people's
buttons usually, but there's,you're talking old, old nervous
system wiring.
And I would say by and large,most people find, you know, uh,
(01:50):
what.
Find that going home again orbeing with family, um, is like
more stressful than it ought tobe.
I would say that's like such acommon thing, like, well, my
family's dysfunctional.
It's like, well, I have yet tomeet like a quote functional
family.
I have to say, I think, youknow, if you're feeling like
God, something like this isn'tright.
Also, if you're feeling like.
Oh, I am 14 when I go home.
(02:10):
I find that a lot when I'm withmy family, like, oh, I'm a
teenager again.
Even though like out in theworld I'm a pretty functional
adult.
So it's just interesting andvery normal for the family
system, as we say, to snappeople back.
Snap you back to an earliertime.
This just very normal.
Not saying it's good or bad, itjust is a very common
phenomenon.
(02:31):
Um.
And so, and then when it comesto money, this is an interesting
thing.
I might have said this on theother episode, I don't know, but
research shows that ourfundamental money beliefs are
formed by age eight.
That's before you're evenhandling your own money.
That is all from cues you'retaking from the people around
you who are dealing with money.
(02:51):
So it's conversations you'reoverhearing, it's um, you know,
money decisions, you'rewitnessing happening.
It's usually what is said, whichwe're not always saying
everything.
It's also, you know, are maybeour first experiences with say
if you got allowance and how youused that.
And so all of those things is.
Why is this very young?
Like is money a safe topic?
(03:12):
Is it a scary topic, is it aconfusing topic?
Um, and those things will sitwith us if we don't go back as
adults and, and process that.
If we don't process it, it willkind of be a time capsule of
whatever those beliefs were thatyou picked up from your family
by age eight.
So then, okay, let's say you're40 in your forties and you come
(03:33):
back up and then you're like,ah, I'm nine again.
Um.
It's a normal phenomenon.
And, um, just to understand thatif you feel kind of young, if
you feel kind of immature,that's probably speaking to a
time in your life that, um,might need some processing on
your own outside of your family.
Stoy Hall (03:51):
Yeah, I, I agree.
And I, I challenge everyone to,when you, it's gonna happen,
it's just gonna happen, right?
You're gonna get into that mode,um, maybe spin it differently of
just saying, Hey, let's talkabout this next week.
Right.
Sure.
Try to push it to a differenttime.
I do think you, it needs to betalked about.
Sure.
Whether it's the discussion of,we never talked about money as a
(04:13):
family,
Rachel Duncan (04:14):
right?
Mm-hmm.
Stoy Hall (04:15):
Um,
Rachel Duncan (04:16):
but maybe not at Thanksgiving.
Like that's the, you know, timeand place.
We can, we can try.
Um, yeah.
It depends.
Also, I don't think.
You know, not all of us will getmuch satisfying conversation
with our family about it.
It, we might really depends,right?
Everyone's got their own storyand their own thing to work out
it.
It is sometimes a more solopractice or with someone outside
(04:39):
of your family system becausewhat's interesting is how you
experience money might not beanything like.
How someone else in your familyexperienced that same scenario.
So that can feel a littlemaddening.
Like, wait, you know, those werereally lean times, and then your
mom might be like, no, itwasn't.
And then you feel like, ah,what's happening here?
But truly, we're all the heroesof our own story.
(05:00):
So I think also like managingyour expectations of what can be
done in relationship and whatsometimes needs to be done out
of relationship that is, is alittle bit maybe on your own,
because we just, we can't changepeople.
Mm.
We wish we could.
We tried, but you know what?
We can change sto.
(05:20):
Like we can change other people,but we can.
Shift a relationship, and that'sdifferent, right?
I can't change how you are inthis world necessarily, but I
can change how we relate, whichspeaks to boundaries.
The Big B word,
Stoy Hall (05:36):
which we'll get to, we'll get to.
Yeah.
Don't worry.
Rachel Duncan (05:37):
Teaser.
Stoy Hall (05:38):
Get into it.
Yeah.
Things are boundaries.
State number two is what societyMedia is saying.
It's a little myth nest going onhere, here.
This is a fun one.
Probably my fa favorite of allsegments.
And I say that literally everyepisode.
Um, so get used to it people,but it's all the best.
Yeah.
Great.
How about this?
How about this?
So you've been, they're friends,someone, they're just saying,
they're just, this is what theylove to say is just, just avoid
(06:00):
the topic.
Just avoid the topic.
Rachel Duncan (06:02):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Stoy Hall (06:04):
Um, I know when I ever tell my wife, just avoid
the topic.
That topic's getting brought up.
There's no avoiding the topicspecifically after I say that.
So what do you have to say to,to that comment or to that
quote?
Rachel Duncan (06:19):
Well, I'm curious, do you have an example
in mind?
Like is there something that'smaybe come up, something you've
heard about or in, even in yourfamily, like,'cause it's so
hard, the topic.
I don't know what, you know, itcould be so many things.
Do you have an example we couldwork with?
Stoy Hall (06:32):
Yeah.
Um, so I've heard this one acouple times and, and I'm not
gonna verbatim say what thisstory was, but like it's,
they're very similar.
Mm-hmm.
And typically it has to do withlike, um.
Brother, sister something,right?
Mm-hmm.
Said something to mom and dadprior months earlier.
(06:52):
Mm-hmm.
Um, this, this scenario actuallyhad to do with a birthday party
and why the grandparents went toone grandchild's and not the
other grandchild's.
Right.
Okay.
Yeah.
That situation.
Gotcha.
Um, and so was told, hey.
Someone don't bring that upduring Thanksgiving, actually,
this one was Christmas.
It's like, let's not bring it upnow.
(07:13):
Let's let the kids have fun.
Yeah.
Do their thing, right?
Yeah.
Well, ipso facto, it so happenedto be involved with like, okay,
everyone's having drinks,everything's fine, I'm cool,
everything's gonna go well.
And then all of a sudden someonebrings up.
Said birthday party, right?
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Um, because the kid got apresent and was very similar to
it, and then it just, like, ittriggers from there, right?
(07:36):
So I've heard that story.
Not only, you know, with, withmy wife and our family, other
families of like, it's alwayssomething that is going to have
been, and if you say, don'tthink about it or don't do it,
it's gonna be on the tip of thetongue.
Um, and so that's,
Rachel Duncan (07:52):
yeah, I mean, avoidance.
A lot of things doesn'tgenerally work.
It, it can maybe work in themoment, right?
This all depends, right?
What are you up for?
Right?
Um, and managing expectationsthough, like, it's not like, oh,
we either avoid it or wecompletely hash it out.
Like those aren't the only twooptions.
So like, I think sometimes weget into black and white
(08:13):
thinking, right?
We either never talk about it orwe totally get into it.
So like.
Can I hold some love that thiswas a painful, confusing thing.
There are hurt feelings here.
Like I know this, I love thesepeople and you know, I mean, I
dunno, maybe this is my bias asa therapist, but I think we can
actually like tolerate otherpeople's feelings a little more
(08:34):
than we give ourselves creditfor.
Like some awkwardness maybe.
Maybe even if you're notinvolved, but you're seeing
something play out, it's notyour job to save anybody.
But if there's an opening toeven say.
This feels really painful rightnow.
Or while that was awkward, Ithink we can sometimes do things
like this exists.
Maybe now's not the time to getinto it, but it's not the case
(08:56):
of avoidance.
Um, it's like, I'm so glad youactually brought that up.
Right.
Do you think we could talk aboutthat maybe next week?
Like I'd love to talk with youon Sunday, right?
So there could be, sometimesit's a not right now
conversation.
Um, you know, all dependsobviously of what you're up for.
And if someone really wants toengage, then there might be some
real boundary setting.
(09:17):
Um, but I think actually we areall longing to be real.
Yeah.
And it's a, it's a horriblefeeling if you're on the other
side of that.
Like, I am super upset aboutthis.
I can't believe no one's talkingabout it.
And I'm triggered and I'm gonnastart talking about it for
someone to say.
Let's not talk about that now.
Yeah, it's the worst, right?
You're like capping the bomb.
Um, but like, God, I've wantedto talk about this too.
(09:39):
This thing sucks.
I think we could do, you know, Iwanna repair or I want things to
be better.
Do you think we could talk aboutit, you know, on Sunday or
something?
Um, I, I think that canvalidate, like, we do need to
validate everyone's feelings arevalid.
I know I'm the therapist here,but it, and I know it, sometimes
it doesn't seem like it, like, Idon't know why they're angry,
but if someone's angry or upset,it's because they're hurt.
(10:00):
We can validate that.
Right?
Or sometimes it was confusing.
This was confusing.
Um, I think also having a fewthings in your back pocket,
right?
Like anyone excited to seewicked.
You know, I think we can, like,if.
It feels like there's suchweight in the room and no one's
quite ready to do it, but likethe topic brought up, I think if
(10:24):
you have it in you, if you feellike you can do this and name
it, that was kinda awkward.
Guys, can we talk about ourmovie plans?
Like I think that's okay.
Instead of a avoidance.
It's a bit of a redirection, andI think having a few things in
your pocket to redirect might beespecially, what are we looking
forward to?
Could be a great question.
Stoy Hall (10:43):
What about this next one?
Just say yes to everything tokeep the peace.
Mm
Rachel Duncan (10:55):
mm Okay.
You're talking to a recoveringpeople pleaser, so there are
times, depending on therelationships in our lives where
to stay safe and just getthrough.
We just put on that mask andsay, yes, there is.
There's nothing wrong with that.
If you're on a journey and youfeel that your family is, or any
(11:15):
of these relationships are upfor it, um, try something
different instead of Yes.
And that doesn't mean no, right.
Again, let's avoid the binarythinking.
Um, there is a book that I readthis year that changed my life
about boundaries.
It, I had to look it up.
It's called Set Boundaries.
Find Peace, A Guide toReclaiming Yourself by a
(11:36):
therapist named Nedra GloverTwab.
I hope I'm saying that right.
It is the book, everyone, itreally did change my life.
Um, because she kinda talksabout sometimes you say, oh,
it's either there's a boundaryor there's none.
Or a boundary means no.
Yeah.
Or there's none.
But really a boundary is yousaying what you will do, what
you will do not, you can'tchange anyone else's behavior.
(11:59):
So if like, oh, okay, my oldfamily role is just saying yes
all the time, and that has beena harmful habit for me that I'm
trying to change.
It could be a.
Not right now.
Or could you gimme a day tothink about that?
Right.
That's a powerful shift fromjust being always agreeable and
pleasant.
(12:19):
Um, however, you know, fawning,we call that fawning is one of
the trauma reactions.
So if in your history fawninghas been a way for you to stay
safe, let's honor that.
Maybe that is the best solution.
Um, but if you feel like there'sa little bit of room to start
establishing yourself as agrownup with your family, it
could be like, you know whatwill work for me?
(12:41):
Right?
Everyone's like, Hey, let's allget together and go to this
movie and you really don't wantto, or let's say financially you
can't afford it, or whatever.
Be like, I love that for youguys, you know, I'm gonna set
this one out, but tell me how itgoes.
Right there, there's still kindof a yes in there.
You're still being pleasant andagreeable, but a But isn't that
(13:02):
a powerful boundary?
You know, play with that andI'll say, if you are on your own
personal journey, trying tochange, move for habits, your
family unknowingly, allsubconsciously, we'll try to
snap you back to how you were.
Nobody means to do this, butthis is a fact of like, family
therapy is the system, thefamily system, uh, likes
(13:24):
homeostasis, likes things tostay the same, even if that
sucks, like the devil, you know?
So when someone, it's usuallythat person who's in therapy who
is like changing themselves and,you know, trying new things.
Um, the, the folks around you,your family will be like, but
you used to always agree.
So don't get mad at them.
That's them pulling back tohomeostasis.
(13:46):
They're just not on the journeyyou're on.
You may have to say it again.
It may feel a littleuncomfortable, but.
Who here has grown, you know,without discomfort like, and
that will usually plant the seedfor this relationship shifting.
You're not changing the person,but you are shifting like, hey,
maybe like I'm not just gonna bealways available.
(14:09):
I used to be, but not anymore.
And they'll.
Stay at it, stay to yourintegrity, what you will and
what you won't do.
You can still be really kindabout it, about it.
You don't have to be mean aboutit.
And you know, we'll seeeveryone's family is different,
but, um, usually when someonesets a boundary, it does benefit
everybody.
(14:30):
Did that answer your question?
Stoy Hall (14:32):
It did.
It did.
Um, and it kind of bled over toour next segment of Yeah.
Your point of view.
So we're just gonna keep divinginto the whole boundary
conversation and, yeah.
First of all, one, you've gottarecognize what boundaries you
wanna set.
Yeah.
Right?
Like, you gotta start there.
So how, how do we do that,right?
Mm-hmm.
How do we even start thatjourney for ourselves to one,
(14:53):
recognize that we need to setboundaries and then like, truly
like go on that journey ofsetting them.
Mm-hmm.
Um, not holding them yet, and Idon't even get to that part.
We just need a seven.
Rachel Duncan (15:03):
How do, how do we do that?
This is one of my favoritetopics because it's my final
frontier.
Like I'm 40, almost 46, and I'mlike, feel like I just started
working on this.
So like it's my final frontier.
So I think about it a lot and inmy membership, actually, I do a
lot of workshops about boundarysetting because boundaries are
funny.
What's interesting about ahealthy boundary is you don't
(15:24):
know it's there when it'sworking.
You don't know.
You only know it when it'scrossed.
There's that.
Ouch.
There's that Z, there's that.
Why did they ask that of me?
Or, um.
This kind of thing isexhausting, like, but there's
like innumerable boundaries thatare happening all the time that
are working great that you don'teven realize.
So that's what's interesting isthat we can't really define a
(15:47):
boundary usually until it'scrossed.
So that's kind of where I start.
Like let's take an example of afinancial boundary that was
crossed.
Either like someone crossed yourfinancial boundary or sometimes
you saw it happen.
So that could be the first thingis like, okay, how do I know?
And usually it's a sensoryfeeling.
I get a pin in my stomach or Istart sweating, or I wanna get
(16:08):
out of there, or you know, a, Ido a trauma reaction fight,
flight, freeze, or fawn, youknow, so it's like, oh, okay.
That's how I know when it ishappening.
So that's really good, right?
Like when I get that feeling,uh, there's some boundary stuff
happening here and then back upand look at.
What is a story of a financialboundary being upheld?
(16:29):
And a lot of times it'ssomething you saw between people
or sometimes, you know, aninteraction you had.
How did that feel?
Right?
Um, you know, some examples thatI've heard is like, oh, you
know, my friend, um, you know,we were all going to a concert
and they said, you know what?
That's not, uh, I won't be ableto afford that.
I'll see you guys later and.
This client kind of witnessedthat happening and was like,
(16:52):
what?
Like they did the thing that Iwish I'd done.
I couldn't afford it either.
You know?
And so I think paying attentionto other people, you know, maybe
behaving in ways that you feellike has a lot of integrity or
taught you something or gave youa boundary there.
Um, and then how did that feel?
Oh, that is often I feel whole,I felt, um, seen I, you know,
(17:15):
all kinds of sensory things.
Um, and of course I'm an arttherapist, so we make two
images.
We make an image of what itfeels like to have a boundary
crossed and an image of what itfeels like to have a boundary
upheld financial or otherwise.
Now we have two very real, likesensory experiences and depicted
visually, and they're usuallyreally, really telling, right?
(17:37):
And we're really looking at, um,the differences between these
two feelings.
So then we're gonna take thatimage, that experience of a, of
a boundary being upheld.
Like this is something you canfeel and notice where else you
feel it in your life.
So I mean, this, this is a moreof a, you know, the therapist's
approach to it, but we all knowthe difference.
(17:57):
And I'd say like, dial up yoursensitivity to really feeling
that notice there are people inyour life who might have some,
you know, different kinds ofboundaries or boundary practice
around some things.
And if you notice it and you'relike, God, I, I wish I could say
that, sit with that.
What would that feel like?
What would that be like?
Um.
To set that kind of boundary.
So, um, yeah.
(18:18):
Did that, did that answer yourquestion or did that Yeah, yeah.
Stoy Hall (18:21):
When we talk about money there, there's a, there's
a word that comes around money alot for a lot of people, and
that's shame.
Rachel Duncan (18:30):
Right.
The one number, one, number oneword,
Stoy Hall (18:33):
they, they feel shameful of the lack of money.
Yeah.
You name their situation.
Rachel Duncan (18:37):
Yep.
Stoy Hall (18:38):
Um, then when you feel all that shame, you also
then kinda spiral roll intothis.
I'm comparing myself to everyoneelse and where they're at.
Yeah.
Right.
Those, those go hand in hand alot.
How do we one recognize that?
Um, in ourselves.
I know.
I feel it.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Others might not have recognizedthat, but it's a, it's a
(18:59):
visceral feeling for me when Iget into that little spiral and
Yes.
Not, okay.
So Juan, how do we feel it, andthen what's a good tool to get
us.
Kind of not out of it.
'cause that's not the easiestthing to do, but at least right
sized a little bit.
Rachel Duncan (19:14):
Well, I keep thinking about this, you know,
thinking about holidays andcoming together with family and
a lot of times shame can come upwhen there's wealth differences
within a family.
Um, and.
You know, Bre, Brene Brown hastaught us that shame and guilt
(19:34):
are kind of cousins, but theyare different actually, right?
Shame is I'm a bad person, andguilt is, I made a mistake, I
did something I wish I hadn'tdone.
So I think one thought exercise,if you're feeling shame about
your financial situation, or forexample, with a lot of people I
work with, like I spend, I, Ifeel shame about how much I
spend.
(19:55):
Could I re literally replace theword guilt?
And put that in instead of shamein that script.
I feel guilty about how muchI've spent.
Oh, doesn't that start to, forme, that starts shifting a
little bit.
Guilt is something I can dosomething about.
Right.
Like, oh, how could I not feelguilty?
Oh, I'd love to, you know, spendwith more integrity or build up
(20:16):
my savings.
Now we're going somewhere.
Because it isn't like about meas a human, it's not about my
validity.
So I think that's just like onits basis.
I would write down the nast oldscript you got about yourself
right now.
Right?
Like, I have a lot of shame.
I feel I have a lot of secrets,I have a lot of shame, um, about
my financial situation and justtry out, I have a lot of guilt
(20:37):
about my financial situation.
No, it's still.
Dark, it's still heavy, butguilt can move us to, um, well
there's a, we actually have lotsof frameworks to deal with
guilt, like religion has a lotof frameworks to deal with
guilt.
Um, you know, like you can dosomething about that.
It's making amends, it'schanging your behavior.
(20:57):
Um, stuff like that.
So that's, that's sort of likemy num my, my first thought.
Um, and.
I think the other thing is justwhat I said at the top, that
shame is the number one wordassociated with money.
So if you're feeling a ton ofshame, another kind of thought
is, well, could they also beexperiencing shame?
About something I don't knowabout,
Stoy Hall (21:18):
right?
Rachel Duncan (21:18):
Like we all have a lot of stuff in our closets
and even the people who looklike they have their money stuff
together.
I mean, sto, you and I havelooked under a lot of hoods,
like people sometimes who reallylook like they have it together.
There is, there is stuff goingon.
If financially, you would neverguess.
So I think there can be a littlebit, gosh, I'm carrying all this
shame.
I feel like I'm the only one whois bad with money, but Mc, Doy
(21:42):
and I are here to tell you likegood chances are really good.
There's a lot of other people inyour family who might not have
the same situation as you.
Um, there could be gamblingaddiction, there could be
spending addiction, there couldbe unmanageable debt, all kinds
of stuff that we are all workingreally hard to keep under wrap.
So a little bit of normalizingis that if you're feeling like
(22:05):
you have to keep a lot of yourmoney stuff secret.
Everybody has secrets.
You're not the only one.
Um, and if we can go to a placeof guilt to work through, then
you're, you're gonna find,you're gonna find your way out
of it.
Stoy Hall (22:18):
I think if you, I know, I know if you transition
that to that guilt too, I, it'llhelps you align with other
people, kind of what you're justsaying, like, yeah, not, no.
Here it is, folks, no one hastheir shit together.
Okay?
From billionaires, trillionairesdown to people who have negative
money like no one does.
Okay?
We're here to tell you, it'sjust the truth.
(22:39):
It is what it is.
But I think if you lay more onthe guilt part, I can.
Talk to you and we can be guiltytogether.
Right?
Yeah.
We can both feel guilt together.
The shame doesn't, and it putsup, this puts us in a box in a,
in a wall away from everyone inthe, in the corner, right?
Yeah.
There's just no way around that.
So I really believe people, likeif you shift to guilt.
(23:00):
It allows us to then align withothers.
And I, at the end of the day,this podcast, what we do, what
we put out in content in generaland why we work with people is
we want you to be able to talkto others.
We wanna normalize theseconversations because these
conversations around money andeverything drive almost every
(23:20):
other decision there is good,bad, or indifferent.
And if we can normalize theseconversations, we can truly then
start to mm-hmm.
Help each other and not try toput each other down.
And I, I personally haven't seena lot of financial, um,
conversations around puttingsomeone down'cause they don't
have money.
(23:41):
Like, I've rarely seen it.
Yeah, no.
I've always seen someone We
Rachel Duncan (23:43):
do it to ourselves, correct.
Stoy Hall (23:45):
Yes.
Yes.
Right.
Exactly.
It is actually to ourselves.
Yes.
That then we push out and makeit feel like people are saying
and doing that thing, and it'snot, it's, it's your own brain.
Yeah, we have to be able tochange that.
Rachel Duncan (23:57):
And I love that you brought it to connection.
'cause that is the antidote toshame is connection.
Right.
The, the thing with shame isthat it's been behind so many
walls.
Um, that's what's keeping shamealive.
So actually just opening that upand finding safe people to talk
with, and it might not be ourfamily, that's fine.
Right.
But choose the, you know.
I think building your team ofsuperheroes, um, about your
(24:20):
money, uh, the roles that youand I play with so many clients'
lives is so important.
Just the fact that, um, hey,like we, we can't just keep this
behind, you know, 10 brickwalls.
Um, and I know it's hard and it,it can be embarrassing, right?
That's the other thing.
Is that shame or is itembarrassment?
That's, uh, also something wecan work with embarrassment, we
(24:41):
can work with guilt and, um, therelief.
That I witness daily with folkssharing what's really going on,
going on with their money, withsomeone who is kind and not
gonna judge them.
And I was like, yeah, me too.
Or whatever, you know, it's, oh,it is palpable.
That relief and honestly, theshame goes poof.
(25:03):
You know?
Really can really shifts yourperspective on things.
Stoy Hall (25:07):
It does.
It does.
Yeah.
Alright.
As we get into the last segmentof actionable steps.
We, we've discussed a lot here.
Um, we've actually given someactionable steps.
Sure.
But I want our listeners andviewers today to leave Wednesday
before Thanksgiving.
Um, with a tool that they cantake into this weekend, this
(25:29):
long weekend, um, to one,hopefully get out of the shame
part of it.
Black Mammoth (25:36):
Mm-hmm.
Stoy Hall (25:37):
Two, make sure that their boundaries are set enough
for these.
Stressful things are gonnahappen probably in their family
conversations, and three, thegrace to deal with it and
actually move forward withwhatever their situation is.
Mm-hmm.
After the holidays.
What are some steps for us to beable to achieve those three
(25:57):
goals?
Rachel Duncan (25:59):
Okay.
My favorite thing is I wanteveryone to write down a list of
all the things that they do thatmakes them feel like a person
that makes them feel like awhole being, you know, I don't
wanna say your best self, butwhat makes you feel connected to
being a human being?
So for, you know, this could be.
(26:19):
Petting your dog, uh, playingwith your cat, tending to your
plants, drinking that delicioustea.
It's often.
It's often little daily things.
Uh, and that's the thing I wantyou to focus on the little what
are daily little things thatreally help you connect to being
a person.
It doesn't have to be soloeither.
Like a walk with my husband willfix most things and whatever's
(26:40):
going on.
So they're often these littlegrabs, um, that you've
experienced in the past thatreally help you feel like a
person wants.
You just brainstorm'em all.
The weirder, the better.
Dancing to disco music, youknow, like weird stuff.
Totally talking to my bestfriend, whatever.
Um.
That really like connect you tobeing a person.
And then I want you to do one ofthose things every day no matter
(27:03):
what.
So you got, you know,Thanksgiving coming up that
morning, you are gonna tend toyour plants no matter what.
And so you'll have a menu.
It doesn't have to be the samething every day.
You can switch it around.
Um, it could be sipping your teaand looking out the window, but
I want there to be somethingthat connects you to yourself.
At least once a day, maybe twiceon Thanksgiving, depending on
(27:25):
your family situation, andreally come to rely on yourself
to do those things.
Um, so it could be a, you know,a reminder in your calendar,
sticky note on the mirror, allthose things.
All the things you know, uh,that might work for you.
And to really, I call it apleasure practice.
And you could also connect thatpleasure practice to just
considering I am healing myrelationship with money.
(27:47):
That's it.
I'm healing my relationship withmoney as I'm sipping my tea, as
I'm playing with my dog.
And just that little bit of areminder, that little check in
with yourself will honestly domore for your money than any
budget ever could.
So that's my, can you say
Stoy Hall (28:01):
that last part again?
Rachel Duncan (28:03):
Yes.
Connecting with yourself andwith Pleasure Daily.
We'll do more for your moneythan any budget ever Can.
Stoy Hall (28:13):
That sentence is powerful people.
Um, and yeah, she's a therapist.
I'm not help.
And I will still tell you thesame exact thing.
Exactly.
The work you do on yourself, thegrace that you give yourself is
the catalyst to everything inlife, right.
And specifically money.
Yeah.
Um.
That just jump starts it all andit makes it all come together.
(28:35):
And kind of like you had saidearlier about boundaries where
it doesn't feel like there's aboundary, everyone always asks
me is like, ah, I hate budgets.
Right?
You get the budget eye rollthing and I'm like, the budget
is just your set boundary, butif you tied your budget to, and
figured out who you are and yourlifestyle and your goals and
those things, and that's whatyour budget was created off of,
it no longer is a budget.
(28:55):
No, it, it's just normal lifefor you.
But you've set yourself withthose boundaries naturally.
Yeah.
And it just is a lifestyle atthis point,
Rachel Duncan (29:04):
right?
Especially if we think of aboundary is what you will do,
right?
And that is what a budget is.
This is what I will do.
Or I plan for.
Right?
That's, that's, that is whatit's about.
And yeah, that B word I gets alot of, a lot of flack.
But you know, we could sorebrand it.
We just have the wholeconversation.
We need to rebrand the wordsavings.
It sucks.
Let's come up with better wordsfor it.
Like we can rebrand this stuff.
(29:25):
Like it.
You don't have to do it the way,I mean, back to family stuff.
You don't have to do money theway your family does it.
You can, you really can forwardyour own way and then you're
gonna be even better with itwhen it feels like yours.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, absolutely.
Stoy Hall (29:40):
Well, hey everyone, have a great Thanksgiving.
Eat a lot of food.
I'm going to eat about fourpies.
It's fine.
It's my thing.
I'll get over it.
Um, but Rachel, appreciate youcoming on.
We'll look forward to having youin the new year as well.
Thank you.
Uh, more we dive a littledeeper, everyone a little tease
here and I'm gonna throw it intothis episode of we're actually
going to have part of ourcollective, about five of us
(30:02):
more on a panel.
Going through more of thesecases from all of our different
perspectives and it's gonna bereally, really cool'cause it
goes deeper and it allows you inone scenario to get five
different minds from fivedifferent walks of life
attacking one issue.
So everyone, stay tuned.
Have a great holidays andRachel, appreciate you coming
on.
Rachel Duncan (30:21):
Love talking with you.
Thanks Doy.
Black Mammoth (30:38):
The proceeding program was sponsored by Black
Mammoth.
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third parties or publicationsare in no way indicative of the
advisor's future performance orany individual client's
investment success.
No award ranking or recognitionshould be construed as a current
or past endorsement of blackmammoth.
(30:59):
Information regarding specificawards, rankings, or
recognitions is available on theBlack Mammoth website, www.black
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All investment strategies havethe potential for profit or loss
Investment strategies such asasset allocation,
diversification, or rebalancingdo not assure or guarantee
(31:19):
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There are no guarantees that aportfolio employing these or any
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(31:42):
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While information presented isbelieved to be factual and up to
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(32:04):
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Well then it's time.
Stoy Hall (00:29):
It is Thanksgiving time everybody.
And what better way to, I guess,come together as a family unit
than bringing up all the oldstories and stressors and things
that we all go through?
Because it happens we're family.
Can't really avoid it.
Gotta deal with it.
But today we got Rachel Duncanon, which you guys have seen her
previous episode.
We're gonna dive into sometechniques, some thoughts, some
(00:51):
things around coming homeThanksgiving money.
Et cetera.
So, Rachel, uh, welcome back.
Thanks for having
Rachel Duncan (01:00):
Meto.
Stoy Hall (01:02):
Yes.
And so this is just a fun timeof the year for me.
I, I just love it because yousee all the stories, things pop
up and it, it just gets crazyfor us all.
But why is it that.
During this timeframe around thetable, you're with your family.
Why do money triggers happenaround this timeframe?
(01:23):
Like what, what really happensthat brings it out of everybody?
Rachel Duncan (01:28):
Well, to like roll things way back, the reason
why your family pushes yourbuttons is because they put them
there.
They put those buttons there sothey know exactly right.
All subconscious, no one'sintentionally pushing people's
buttons usually, but there's,you're talking old, old nervous
system wiring.
And I would say by and large,most people find, you know, uh,
(01:50):
what.
Find that going home again orbeing with family, um, is like
more stressful than it ought tobe.
I would say that's like such acommon thing, like, well, my
family's dysfunctional.
It's like, well, I have yet tomeet like a quote functional
family.
I have to say, I think, youknow, if you're feeling like
God, something like this isn'tright.
Also, if you're feeling like.
Oh, I am 14 when I go home.
(02:10):
I find that a lot when I'm withmy family, like, oh, I'm a
teenager again.
Even though like out in theworld I'm a pretty functional
adult.
So it's just interesting andvery normal for the family
system, as we say, to snappeople back.
Snap you back to an earliertime.
This just very normal.
Not saying it's good or bad, itjust is a very common
phenomenon.
(02:31):
Um.
And so, and then when it comesto money, this is an interesting
thing.
I might have said this on theother episode, I don't know, but
research shows that ourfundamental money beliefs are
formed by age eight.
That's before you're evenhandling your own money.
That is all from cues you'retaking from the people around
you who are dealing with money.
(02:51):
So it's conversations you'reoverhearing, it's um, you know,
money decisions, you'rewitnessing happening.
It's usually what is said, whichwe're not always saying
everything.
It's also, you know, are maybeour first experiences with say
if you got allowance and how youused that.
And so all of those things is.
Why is this very young?
Like is money a safe topic?
(03:12):
Is it a scary topic, is it aconfusing topic?
Um, and those things will sitwith us if we don't go back as
adults and, and process that.
If we don't process it, it willkind of be a time capsule of
whatever those beliefs were thatyou picked up from your family
by age eight.
So then, okay, let's say you're40 in your forties and you come
(03:33):
back up and then you're like,ah, I'm nine again.
Um.
It's a normal phenomenon.
And, um, just to understand thatif you feel kind of young, if
you feel kind of immature,that's probably speaking to a
time in your life that, um,might need some processing on
your own outside of your family.
Stoy Hall (03:51):
Yeah, I, I agree.
And I, I challenge everyone to,when you, it's gonna happen,
it's just gonna happen, right?
You're gonna get into that mode,um, maybe spin it differently of
just saying, Hey, let's talkabout this next week.
Right.
Sure.
Try to push it to a differenttime.
I do think you, it needs to betalked about.
Sure.
Whether it's the discussion of,we never talked about money as a
(04:13):
family,
Rachel Duncan (04:14):
right?
Mm-hmm.
Stoy Hall (04:15):
Um,
Rachel Duncan (04:16):
but maybe not at Thanksgiving.
Like that's the, you know, timeand place.
We can, we can try.
Um, yeah.
It depends.
Also, I don't think.
You know, not all of us will getmuch satisfying conversation
with our family about it.
It, we might really depends,right?
Everyone's got their own storyand their own thing to work out
it.
It is sometimes a more solopractice or with someone outside
(04:39):
of your family system becausewhat's interesting is how you
experience money might not beanything like.
How someone else in your familyexperienced that same scenario.
So that can feel a littlemaddening.
Like, wait, you know, those werereally lean times, and then your
mom might be like, no, itwasn't.
And then you feel like, ah,what's happening here?
But truly, we're all the heroesof our own story.
(05:00):
So I think also like managingyour expectations of what can be
done in relationship and whatsometimes needs to be done out
of relationship that is, is alittle bit maybe on your own,
because we just, we can't changepeople.
Mm.
We wish we could.
We tried, but you know what?
We can change sto.
(05:20):
Like we can change other people,but we can.
Shift a relationship, and that'sdifferent, right?
I can't change how you are inthis world necessarily, but I
can change how we relate, whichspeaks to boundaries.
The Big B word,
Stoy Hall (05:36):
which we'll get to, we'll get to.
Yeah.
Don't worry.
Rachel Duncan (05:37):
Teaser.
Stoy Hall (05:38):
Get into it.
Yeah.
Things are boundaries.
State number two is what societyMedia is saying.
It's a little myth nest going onhere, here.
This is a fun one.
Probably my fa favorite of allsegments.
And I say that literally everyepisode.
Um, so get used to it people,but it's all the best.
Yeah.
Great.
How about this?
How about this?
So you've been, they're friends,someone, they're just saying,
they're just, this is what theylove to say is just, just avoid
(06:00):
the topic.
Just avoid the topic.
Rachel Duncan (06:02):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Stoy Hall (06:04):
Um, I know when I ever tell my wife, just avoid
the topic.
That topic's getting brought up.
There's no avoiding the topicspecifically after I say that.
So what do you have to say to,to that comment or to that
quote?
Rachel Duncan (06:19):
Well, I'm curious, do you have an example
in mind?
Like is there something that'smaybe come up, something you've
heard about or in, even in yourfamily, like,'cause it's so
hard, the topic.
I don't know what, you know, itcould be so many things.
Do you have an example we couldwork with?
Stoy Hall (06:32):
Yeah.
Um, so I've heard this one acouple times and, and I'm not
gonna verbatim say what thisstory was, but like it's,
they're very similar.
Mm-hmm.
And typically it has to do withlike, um.
Brother, sister something,right?
Mm-hmm.
Said something to mom and dadprior months earlier.
(06:52):
Mm-hmm.
Um, this, this scenario actuallyhad to do with a birthday party
and why the grandparents went toone grandchild's and not the
other grandchild's.
Right.
Okay.
Yeah.
That situation.
Gotcha.
Um, and so was told, hey.
Someone don't bring that upduring Thanksgiving, actually,
this one was Christmas.
It's like, let's not bring it upnow.
(07:13):
Let's let the kids have fun.
Yeah.
Do their thing, right?
Yeah.
Well, ipso facto, it so happenedto be involved with like, okay,
everyone's having drinks,everything's fine, I'm cool,
everything's gonna go well.
And then all of a sudden someonebrings up.
Said birthday party, right?
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Um, because the kid got apresent and was very similar to
it, and then it just, like, ittriggers from there, right?
(07:36):
So I've heard that story.
Not only, you know, with, withmy wife and our family, other
families of like, it's alwayssomething that is going to have
been, and if you say, don'tthink about it or don't do it,
it's gonna be on the tip of thetongue.
Um, and so that's,
Rachel Duncan (07:52):
yeah, I mean, avoidance.
A lot of things doesn'tgenerally work.
It, it can maybe work in themoment, right?
This all depends, right?
What are you up for?
Right?
Um, and managing expectationsthough, like, it's not like, oh,
we either avoid it or wecompletely hash it out.
Like those aren't the only twooptions.
So like, I think sometimes weget into black and white
(08:13):
thinking, right?
We either never talk about it orwe totally get into it.
So like.
Can I hold some love that thiswas a painful, confusing thing.
There are hurt feelings here.
Like I know this, I love thesepeople and you know, I mean, I
dunno, maybe this is my bias asa therapist, but I think we can
actually like tolerate otherpeople's feelings a little more
(08:34):
than we give ourselves creditfor.
Like some awkwardness maybe.
Maybe even if you're notinvolved, but you're seeing
something play out, it's notyour job to save anybody.
But if there's an opening toeven say.
This feels really painful rightnow.
Or while that was awkward, Ithink we can sometimes do things
like this exists.
Maybe now's not the time to getinto it, but it's not the case
(08:56):
of avoidance.
Um, it's like, I'm so glad youactually brought that up.
Right.
Do you think we could talk aboutthat maybe next week?
Like I'd love to talk with youon Sunday, right?
So there could be, sometimesit's a not right now
conversation.
Um, you know, all dependsobviously of what you're up for.
And if someone really wants toengage, then there might be some
real boundary setting.
(09:17):
Um, but I think actually we areall longing to be real.
Yeah.
And it's a, it's a horriblefeeling if you're on the other
side of that.
Like, I am super upset aboutthis.
I can't believe no one's talkingabout it.
And I'm triggered and I'm gonnastart talking about it for
someone to say.
Let's not talk about that now.
Yeah, it's the worst, right?
You're like capping the bomb.
Um, but like, God, I've wantedto talk about this too.
(09:39):
This thing sucks.
I think we could do, you know, Iwanna repair or I want things to
be better.
Do you think we could talk aboutit, you know, on Sunday or
something?
Um, I, I think that canvalidate, like, we do need to
validate everyone's feelings arevalid.
I know I'm the therapist here,but it, and I know it, sometimes
it doesn't seem like it, like, Idon't know why they're angry,
but if someone's angry or upset,it's because they're hurt.
(10:00):
We can validate that.
Right?
Or sometimes it was confusing.
This was confusing.
Um, I think also having a fewthings in your back pocket,
right?
Like anyone excited to seewicked.
You know, I think we can, like,if.
It feels like there's suchweight in the room and no one's
quite ready to do it, but likethe topic brought up, I think if
(10:24):
you have it in you, if you feellike you can do this and name
it, that was kinda awkward.
Guys, can we talk about ourmovie plans?
Like I think that's okay.
Instead of a avoidance.
It's a bit of a redirection, andI think having a few things in
your pocket to redirect might beespecially, what are we looking
forward to?
Could be a great question.
Stoy Hall (10:43):
What about this next one?
Just say yes to everything tokeep the peace.
Mm
Rachel Duncan (10:55):
mm Okay.
You're talking to a recoveringpeople pleaser, so there are
times, depending on therelationships in our lives where
to stay safe and just getthrough.
We just put on that mask andsay, yes, there is.
There's nothing wrong with that.
If you're on a journey and youfeel that your family is, or any
(11:15):
of these relationships are upfor it, um, try something
different instead of Yes.
And that doesn't mean no, right.
Again, let's avoid the binarythinking.
Um, there is a book that I readthis year that changed my life
about boundaries.
It, I had to look it up.
It's called Set Boundaries.
Find Peace, A Guide toReclaiming Yourself by a
(11:36):
therapist named Nedra GloverTwab.
I hope I'm saying that right.
It is the book, everyone, itreally did change my life.
Um, because she kinda talksabout sometimes you say, oh,
it's either there's a boundaryor there's none.
Or a boundary means no.
Yeah.
Or there's none.
But really a boundary is yousaying what you will do, what
you will do not, you can'tchange anyone else's behavior.
(11:59):
So if like, oh, okay, my oldfamily role is just saying yes
all the time, and that has beena harmful habit for me that I'm
trying to change.
It could be a.
Not right now.
Or could you gimme a day tothink about that?
Right.
That's a powerful shift fromjust being always agreeable and
pleasant.
(12:19):
Um, however, you know, fawning,we call that fawning is one of
the trauma reactions.
So if in your history fawninghas been a way for you to stay
safe, let's honor that.
Maybe that is the best solution.
Um, but if you feel like there'sa little bit of room to start
establishing yourself as agrownup with your family, it
could be like, you know whatwill work for me?
(12:41):
Right?
Everyone's like, Hey, let's allget together and go to this
movie and you really don't wantto, or let's say financially you
can't afford it, or whatever.
Be like, I love that for youguys, you know, I'm gonna set
this one out, but tell me how itgoes.
Right there, there's still kindof a yes in there.
You're still being pleasant andagreeable, but a But isn't that
(13:02):
a powerful boundary?
You know, play with that andI'll say, if you are on your own
personal journey, trying tochange, move for habits, your
family unknowingly, allsubconsciously, we'll try to
snap you back to how you were.
Nobody means to do this, butthis is a fact of like, family
therapy is the system, thefamily system, uh, likes
(13:24):
homeostasis, likes things tostay the same, even if that
sucks, like the devil, you know?
So when someone, it's usuallythat person who's in therapy who
is like changing themselves and,you know, trying new things.
Um, the, the folks around you,your family will be like, but
you used to always agree.
So don't get mad at them.
That's them pulling back tohomeostasis.
(13:46):
They're just not on the journeyyou're on.
You may have to say it again.
It may feel a littleuncomfortable, but.
Who here has grown, you know,without discomfort like, and
that will usually plant the seedfor this relationship shifting.
You're not changing the person,but you are shifting like, hey,
maybe like I'm not just gonna bealways available.
(14:09):
I used to be, but not anymore.
And they'll.
Stay at it, stay to yourintegrity, what you will and
what you won't do.
You can still be really kindabout it, about it.
You don't have to be mean aboutit.
And you know, we'll seeeveryone's family is different,
but, um, usually when someonesets a boundary, it does benefit
everybody.
(14:30):
Did that answer your question?
Stoy Hall (14:32):
It did.
It did.
Um, and it kind of bled over toour next segment of Yeah.
Your point of view.
So we're just gonna keep divinginto the whole boundary
conversation and, yeah.
First of all, one, you've gottarecognize what boundaries you
wanna set.
Yeah.
Right?
Like, you gotta start there.
So how, how do we do that,right?
Mm-hmm.
How do we even start thatjourney for ourselves to one,
(14:53):
recognize that we need to setboundaries and then like, truly
like go on that journey ofsetting them.
Mm-hmm.
Um, not holding them yet, and Idon't even get to that part.
We just need a seven.
Rachel Duncan (15:03):
How do, how do we do that?
This is one of my favoritetopics because it's my final
frontier.
Like I'm 40, almost 46, and I'mlike, feel like I just started
working on this.
So like it's my final frontier.
So I think about it a lot and inmy membership, actually, I do a
lot of workshops about boundarysetting because boundaries are
funny.
What's interesting about ahealthy boundary is you don't
(15:24):
know it's there when it'sworking.
You don't know.
You only know it when it'scrossed.
There's that.
Ouch.
There's that Z, there's that.
Why did they ask that of me?
Or, um.
This kind of thing isexhausting, like, but there's
like innumerable boundaries thatare happening all the time that
are working great that you don'teven realize.
So that's what's interesting isthat we can't really define a
(15:47):
boundary usually until it'scrossed.
So that's kind of where I start.
Like let's take an example of afinancial boundary that was
crossed.
Either like someone crossed yourfinancial boundary or sometimes
you saw it happen.
So that could be the first thingis like, okay, how do I know?
And usually it's a sensoryfeeling.
I get a pin in my stomach or Istart sweating, or I wanna get
(16:08):
out of there, or you know, a, Ido a trauma reaction fight,
flight, freeze, or fawn, youknow, so it's like, oh, okay.
That's how I know when it ishappening.
So that's really good, right?
Like when I get that feeling,uh, there's some boundary stuff
happening here and then back upand look at.
What is a story of a financialboundary being upheld?
(16:29):
And a lot of times it'ssomething you saw between people
or sometimes, you know, aninteraction you had.
How did that feel?
Right?
Um, you know, some examples thatI've heard is like, oh, you
know, my friend, um, you know,we were all going to a concert
and they said, you know what?
That's not, uh, I won't be ableto afford that.
I'll see you guys later and.
This client kind of witnessedthat happening and was like,
(16:52):
what?
Like they did the thing that Iwish I'd done.
I couldn't afford it either.
You know?
And so I think paying attentionto other people, you know, maybe
behaving in ways that you feellike has a lot of integrity or
taught you something or gave youa boundary there.
Um, and then how did that feel?
Oh, that is often I feel whole,I felt, um, seen I, you know,
(17:15):
all kinds of sensory things.
Um, and of course I'm an arttherapist, so we make two
images.
We make an image of what itfeels like to have a boundary
crossed and an image of what itfeels like to have a boundary
upheld financial or otherwise.
Now we have two very real, likesensory experiences and depicted
visually, and they're usuallyreally, really telling, right?
(17:37):
And we're really looking at, um,the differences between these
two feelings.
So then we're gonna take thatimage, that experience of a, of
a boundary being upheld.
Like this is something you canfeel and notice where else you
feel it in your life.
So I mean, this, this is a moreof a, you know, the therapist's
approach to it, but we all knowthe difference.
(17:57):
And I'd say like, dial up yoursensitivity to really feeling
that notice there are people inyour life who might have some,
you know, different kinds ofboundaries or boundary practice
around some things.
And if you notice it and you'relike, God, I, I wish I could say
that, sit with that.
What would that feel like?
What would that be like?
Um.
To set that kind of boundary.
So, um, yeah.
(18:18):
Did that, did that answer yourquestion or did that Yeah, yeah.
Stoy Hall (18:21):
When we talk about money there, there's a, there's
a word that comes around money alot for a lot of people, and
that's shame.
Rachel Duncan (18:30):
Right.
The one number, one, number oneword,
Stoy Hall (18:33):
they, they feel shameful of the lack of money.
Yeah.
You name their situation.
Rachel Duncan (18:37):
Yep.
Stoy Hall (18:38):
Um, then when you feel all that shame, you also
then kinda spiral roll intothis.
I'm comparing myself to everyoneelse and where they're at.
Yeah.
Right.
Those, those go hand in hand alot.
How do we one recognize that?
Um, in ourselves.
I know.
I feel it.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Others might not have recognizedthat, but it's a, it's a
(18:59):
visceral feeling for me when Iget into that little spiral and
Yes.
Not, okay.
So Juan, how do we feel it, andthen what's a good tool to get
us.
Kind of not out of it.
'cause that's not the easiestthing to do, but at least right
sized a little bit.
Rachel Duncan (19:14):
Well, I keep thinking about this, you know,
thinking about holidays andcoming together with family and
a lot of times shame can come upwhen there's wealth differences
within a family.
Um, and.
You know, Bre, Brene Brown hastaught us that shame and guilt
(19:34):
are kind of cousins, but theyare different actually, right?
Shame is I'm a bad person, andguilt is, I made a mistake, I
did something I wish I hadn'tdone.
So I think one thought exercise,if you're feeling shame about
your financial situation, or forexample, with a lot of people I
work with, like I spend, I, Ifeel shame about how much I
spend.
(19:55):
Could I re literally replace theword guilt?
And put that in instead of shamein that script.
I feel guilty about how muchI've spent.
Oh, doesn't that start to, forme, that starts shifting a
little bit.
Guilt is something I can dosomething about.
Right.
Like, oh, how could I not feelguilty?
Oh, I'd love to, you know, spendwith more integrity or build up
(20:16):
my savings.
Now we're going somewhere.
Because it isn't like about meas a human, it's not about my
validity.
So I think that's just like onits basis.
I would write down the nast oldscript you got about yourself
right now.
Right?
Like, I have a lot of shame.
I feel I have a lot of secrets,I have a lot of shame, um, about
my financial situation and justtry out, I have a lot of guilt
(20:37):
about my financial situation.
No, it's still.
Dark, it's still heavy, butguilt can move us to, um, well
there's a, we actually have lotsof frameworks to deal with
guilt, like religion has a lotof frameworks to deal with
guilt.
Um, you know, like you can dosomething about that.
It's making amends, it'schanging your behavior.
(20:57):
Um, stuff like that.
So that's, that's sort of likemy num my, my first thought.
Um, and.
I think the other thing is justwhat I said at the top, that
shame is the number one wordassociated with money.
So if you're feeling a ton ofshame, another kind of thought
is, well, could they also beexperiencing shame?
About something I don't knowabout,
Stoy Hall (21:18):
right?
Rachel Duncan (21:18):
Like we all have a lot of stuff in our closets
and even the people who looklike they have their money stuff
together.
I mean, sto, you and I havelooked under a lot of hoods,
like people sometimes who reallylook like they have it together.
There is, there is stuff goingon.
If financially, you would neverguess.
So I think there can be a littlebit, gosh, I'm carrying all this
shame.
I feel like I'm the only one whois bad with money, but Mc, Doy
(21:42):
and I are here to tell you likegood chances are really good.
There's a lot of other people inyour family who might not have
the same situation as you.
Um, there could be gamblingaddiction, there could be
spending addiction, there couldbe unmanageable debt, all kinds
of stuff that we are all workingreally hard to keep under wrap.
So a little bit of normalizingis that if you're feeling like
(22:05):
you have to keep a lot of yourmoney stuff secret.
Everybody has secrets.
You're not the only one.
Um, and if we can go to a placeof guilt to work through, then
you're, you're gonna find,you're gonna find your way out
of it.
Stoy Hall (22:18):
I think if you, I know, I know if you transition
that to that guilt too, I, it'llhelps you align with other
people, kind of what you're justsaying, like, yeah, not, no.
Here it is, folks, no one hastheir shit together.
Okay?
From billionaires, trillionairesdown to people who have negative
money like no one does.
Okay?
We're here to tell you, it'sjust the truth.
(22:39):
It is what it is.
But I think if you lay more onthe guilt part, I can.
Talk to you and we can be guiltytogether.
Right?
Yeah.
We can both feel guilt together.
The shame doesn't, and it putsup, this puts us in a box in a,
in a wall away from everyone inthe, in the corner, right?
Yeah.
There's just no way around that.
So I really believe people, likeif you shift to guilt.
(23:00):
It allows us to then align withothers.
And I, at the end of the day,this podcast, what we do, what
we put out in content in generaland why we work with people is
we want you to be able to talkto others.
We wanna normalize theseconversations because these
conversations around money andeverything drive almost every
(23:20):
other decision there is good,bad, or indifferent.
And if we can normalize theseconversations, we can truly then
start to mm-hmm.
Help each other and not try toput each other down.
And I, I personally haven't seena lot of financial, um,
conversations around puttingsomeone down'cause they don't
have money.
(23:41):
Like, I've rarely seen it.
Yeah, no.
I've always seen someone We
Rachel Duncan (23:43):
do it to ourselves, correct.
Stoy Hall (23:45):
Yes.
Yes.
Right.
Exactly.
It is actually to ourselves.
Yes.
That then we push out and makeit feel like people are saying
and doing that thing, and it'snot, it's, it's your own brain.
Yeah, we have to be able tochange that.
Rachel Duncan (23:57):
And I love that you brought it to connection.
'cause that is the antidote toshame is connection.
Right.
The, the thing with shame isthat it's been behind so many
walls.
Um, that's what's keeping shamealive.
So actually just opening that upand finding safe people to talk
with, and it might not be ourfamily, that's fine.
Right.
But choose the, you know.
I think building your team ofsuperheroes, um, about your
(24:20):
money, uh, the roles that youand I play with so many clients'
lives is so important.
Just the fact that, um, hey,like we, we can't just keep this
behind, you know, 10 brickwalls.
Um, and I know it's hard and it,it can be embarrassing, right?
That's the other thing.
Is that shame or is itembarrassment?
That's, uh, also something wecan work with embarrassment, we
(24:41):
can work with guilt and, um, therelief.
That I witness daily with folkssharing what's really going on,
going on with their money, withsomeone who is kind and not
gonna judge them.
And I was like, yeah, me too.
Or whatever, you know, it's, oh,it is palpable.
That relief and honestly, theshame goes poof.
(25:03):
You know?
Really can really shifts yourperspective on things.
Stoy Hall (25:07):
It does.
It does.
Yeah.
Alright.
As we get into the last segmentof actionable steps.
We, we've discussed a lot here.
Um, we've actually given someactionable steps.
Sure.
But I want our listeners andviewers today to leave Wednesday
before Thanksgiving.
Um, with a tool that they cantake into this weekend, this
(25:29):
long weekend, um, to one,hopefully get out of the shame
part of it.
Black Mammoth (25:36):
Mm-hmm.
Stoy Hall (25:37):
Two, make sure that their boundaries are set enough
for these.
Stressful things are gonnahappen probably in their family
conversations, and three, thegrace to deal with it and
actually move forward withwhatever their situation is.
Mm-hmm.
After the holidays.
What are some steps for us to beable to achieve those three
(25:57):
goals?
Rachel Duncan (25:59):
Okay.
My favorite thing is I wanteveryone to write down a list of
all the things that they do thatmakes them feel like a person
that makes them feel like awhole being, you know, I don't
wanna say your best self, butwhat makes you feel connected to
being a human being?
So for, you know, this could be.
(26:19):
Petting your dog, uh, playingwith your cat, tending to your
plants, drinking that delicioustea.
It's often.
It's often little daily things.
Uh, and that's the thing I wantyou to focus on the little what
are daily little things thatreally help you connect to being
a person.
It doesn't have to be soloeither.
Like a walk with my husband willfix most things and whatever's
(26:40):
going on.
So they're often these littlegrabs, um, that you've
experienced in the past thatreally help you feel like a
person wants.
You just brainstorm'em all.
The weirder, the better.
Dancing to disco music, youknow, like weird stuff.
Totally talking to my bestfriend, whatever.
Um.
That really like connect you tobeing a person.
And then I want you to do one ofthose things every day no matter
(27:03):
what.
So you got, you know,Thanksgiving coming up that
morning, you are gonna tend toyour plants no matter what.
And so you'll have a menu.
It doesn't have to be the samething every day.
You can switch it around.
Um, it could be sipping your teaand looking out the window, but
I want there to be somethingthat connects you to yourself.
At least once a day, maybe twiceon Thanksgiving, depending on
(27:25):
your family situation, andreally come to rely on yourself
to do those things.
Um, so it could be a, you know,a reminder in your calendar,
sticky note on the mirror, allthose things.
All the things you know, uh,that might work for you.
And to really, I call it apleasure practice.
And you could also connect thatpleasure practice to just
considering I am healing myrelationship with money.
(27:47):
That's it.
I'm healing my relationship withmoney as I'm sipping my tea, as
I'm playing with my dog.
And just that little bit of areminder, that little check in
with yourself will honestly domore for your money than any
budget ever could.
So that's my, can you say
Stoy Hall (28:01):
that last part again?
Rachel Duncan (28:03):
Yes.
Connecting with yourself andwith Pleasure Daily.
We'll do more for your moneythan any budget ever Can.
Stoy Hall (28:13):
That sentence is powerful people.
Um, and yeah, she's a therapist.
I'm not help.
And I will still tell you thesame exact thing.
Exactly.
The work you do on yourself, thegrace that you give yourself is
the catalyst to everything inlife, right.
And specifically money.
Yeah.
Um.
That just jump starts it all andit makes it all come together.
(28:35):
And kind of like you had saidearlier about boundaries where
it doesn't feel like there's aboundary, everyone always asks
me is like, ah, I hate budgets.
Right?
You get the budget eye rollthing and I'm like, the budget
is just your set boundary, butif you tied your budget to, and
figured out who you are and yourlifestyle and your goals and
those things, and that's whatyour budget was created off of,
it no longer is a budget.
(28:55):
No, it, it's just normal lifefor you.
But you've set yourself withthose boundaries naturally.
Yeah.
And it just is a lifestyle atthis point,
Rachel Duncan (29:04):
right?
Especially if we think of aboundary is what you will do,
right?
And that is what a budget is.
This is what I will do.
Or I plan for.
Right?
That's, that's, that is whatit's about.
And yeah, that B word I gets alot of, a lot of flack.
But you know, we could sorebrand it.
We just have the wholeconversation.
We need to rebrand the wordsavings.
It sucks.
Let's come up with better wordsfor it.
Like we can rebrand this stuff.
(29:25):
Like it.
You don't have to do it the way,I mean, back to family stuff.
You don't have to do money theway your family does it.
You can, you really can forwardyour own way and then you're
gonna be even better with itwhen it feels like yours.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, absolutely.
Stoy Hall (29:40):
Well, hey everyone, have a great Thanksgiving.
Eat a lot of food.
I'm going to eat about fourpies.
It's fine.
It's my thing.
I'll get over it.
Um, but Rachel, appreciate youcoming on.
We'll look forward to having youin the new year as well.
Thank you.
Uh, more we dive a littledeeper, everyone a little tease
here and I'm gonna throw it intothis episode of we're actually
going to have part of ourcollective, about five of us
(30:02):
more on a panel.
Going through more of thesecases from all of our different
perspectives and it's gonna bereally, really cool'cause it
goes deeper and it allows you inone scenario to get five
different minds from fivedifferent walks of life
attacking one issue.
So everyone, stay tuned.
Have a great holidays andRachel, appreciate you coming
on.
Rachel Duncan (30:21):
Love talking with you.
Thanks Doy.
Black Mammoth (30:38):
The proceeding program was sponsored by Black
Mammoth.
Any awards, rankings, orrecognition by unaffiliated
third parties or publicationsare in no way indicative of the
advisor's future performance orany individual client's
investment success.
No award ranking or recognitionshould be construed as a current
or past endorsement of blackmammoth.
(30:59):
Information regarding specificawards, rankings, or
recognitions is available on theBlack Mammoth website, www.black
mammoth.com.
All investment strategies havethe potential for profit or loss
Investment strategies such asasset allocation,
diversification, or rebalancingdo not assure or guarantee
(31:19):
better performance and cannoteliminate the risk of investment
losses.
There are no guarantees that aportfolio employing these or any
other strategy will outperform aportfolio that does not engage
in such strategies.
This broadcast should not beconstrued by any client or
prospective client as asolicitation to affect or
attempt to affect transactionsand securities or the rendering
(31:42):
of personalized investmentadvice due to various factors
including changing marketconditions.
The information discussed inthis broadcast may no longer be
reflective of current positionsor recommendations.
While information presented isbelieved to be factual and up to
date, black mammoth, do notguarantee its accuracy and it
should not be regarded as acomplete analysis of the
(32:04):
subjects discussed.
The tax and the state planninginformation discussed is general
in nature and is provided forinformational purposes only and
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Listeners should consult anattorney or tax professional
regarding their specific legalor tax situation.
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