September 19, 2025 • 31 mins
In this illuminating conversation with Courtney Krus and Greg Colunga, managing partners of Amplify Fundraising, we unpack how nonprofits can transform their digital strategy from a "bolt-on" tactic to a powerful, relationship-building channel that drives meaningful results.
These digital fundraising experts reveal what they call "The Pizza Hut Problem" - how traditional nonprofit communications often resemble impersonal, highly-stylized marketing emails that create distance rather than connection. "We have to be authentic and human," Courtney emphasizes, sharing practical ways to write conversational emails that feel like messages from a friend rather than a corporation.
You'll learn why personalization matters more than polish, how to leverage the donor data you already possess, and simple changes you can implement immediately to humanize your digital communications. Greg explains that digital shouldn't be viewed strictly as a revenue channel, but as "an additive piece of the recipe to everything that you're doing," supporting and enhancing your entire fundraising program.
With nonprofit retention rates dropping 12% in just four years, this conversation couldn't be more timely. Whether you're just starting with digital or looking to refresh your approach, you'll walk away with actionable strategies to build authentic connections that inspire generosity.
Get free nonprofit professional development resources, connections to cause work peers, and more at https://nonprofithub.org
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Welcome back to the NonprofitHub podcast.
(00:24):
I'm your host, megan Spear,with my dear friends Courtney
and Greg.
So we have Courtney Cruz andGreg Kalunga, who are the
managing partners of AmplifyFundraising.
Very excited to dig in todigital with them today because
I feel like on the podcast sofar this season we've talked a
lot about fundraising in variouselements more on, like the high
(00:44):
level strategy, but notnecessarily digging into channel
by channel.
So I'm really excited to getkind of a deep dive on digital
today, and these are definitelythe people to do it.
So, courtney, greg, welcome in.
Thank you so much.
Great to be here.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Okay, so, courtney, introduce yourself.
Sure, to start off, give us alittle background about how we
got to the conversation todayhere.
What's your background innonprofit?
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Yeah, well, actually I was thinking about back on
this just the other day becauseI always say I'm like I've been
in fundraising for, you know, 10, 10, 15 years.
But I actually remember incollege volunteering at, like,
social service agencies anddoing a bunch of volunteer work
and, of course, you know,projects in college.
So I guess back in my collegedays I started but, career wise,
(01:31):
in the last 10 to 15 years I'vereally been focused on
fundraising for nonprofits,specifically in the digital
space, and you know I'veoverseen client partnerships at
agencies and now have kind oftaken this leap with Greg to
start our own agency calledAmplify.
So thrilled to be here and myheart honestly, is to help
(01:53):
nonprofits.
It's not just like to work withthese you know the big
nonprofits to continue to growrevenue for them.
My heart is for and withnonprofits, because I actually
worked at a nonprofit for almostsix years as well.
So I understand the pain, youknow, and the resourcing and all
of that and the challenges thatyou're up against, and so
(02:14):
really that's our heart anddesire.
Why we started Amplify was tohelp more nonprofits, because we
understand the pain thateveryone experiences.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
So, yeah, that's great, I love it.
And Greg, what about you?
What's your background in thenonprofit space?
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Yeah, well I've.
I've spent about a half of mycareer in the for profit space,
the other half working withnonprofits, but it's always been
in a fundraising or marketingconsultancy in marketing
services type agency of sorts.
And so, yeah, I started mycareer back in 2010 in
(02:48):
fundraising focused on digital.
My title was InternetStrategist.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Ooh, internet Strategist yeah yes, wow.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
You heard it in here first.
The World Wide Web, yes, yesand electronic email is what we
did do.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
I think we used to also bang rocks together back
then.
So yeah, started, startedworking at an agency here in the
dfw metroplex that waspredominantly a direct mail shop
and just kind of startedbolting digital capabilities in
because it was an emergingchannel that a lot of the
clients of that organizationreally wanted to focus on.
(03:25):
That group was acquired byanother group and so I stayed
for about six years and thenleft to go back to the
for-profit space for three for apublicly traded group and then
was recruited to go focus towork at a digitally focused
nonprofit for the last seven.
That's where I met Courtney.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
And actually fun fact , greg and I did not like each
other when we met each other andnow we've found a business
together.
That's maybe for another day.
Megan yeah, that that mightneed a whole different podcast.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Is there like a B side?
Speaker 1 (04:04):
of the podcast.
Right, can we do like outtakesand extras?
Speaker 3 (04:08):
things that you can learn about that no one really
and maybe actually the thebigger hot take is it's not that
we didn't like each other.
I actually didn't like greg, sothat's to be honest.
But anyways, go ahead greg.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
But we've gotten over that, we've moved past it and
now and now out of it, we haveamplify.
Yeah, right, what's?
Speaker 2 (04:24):
funny about that is I thought we were like best
friends from the beginning, soit took me a little while to
learn that.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Yeah, yeah, here we are today that's a rough spot,
okay, but we will definitelysave that for the b-side because
I think that would be anintriguing conversation of and
what could we learn from how toget along with people that you
didn't necessarily have a greatfirst impression.
They make great businesspartners eventually.
Absolutely Life lessons.
Okay, so we're digging in ondigital, which, now that we
(04:56):
don't call it internetspecialists or wherever it is, I
think we should bring it back.
Maybe, so let's level set justfrom the gate.
When we're talking aboutdigital, I think that even that
word by itself means a lot ofdifferent things to a lot of
different people.
Right, it can encompass web andemail and social and all
(05:19):
digital ad the whole nine.
There's so many things thatfall under that umbrella.
What do we want to startfocusing on here today?
Where do we want to start?
Which of those topics would youlike to start with?
Speaker 3 (05:33):
It goes back to Greg's point of like.
I was at an agency that boltedon digital and I think that is
exactly the area that we shouldfocus on, because that's really
happening at a lot of placesstill, and even nonprofits just
like they don't know what to do,and direct mail is what we've
always been told to do and startwith, but direct mail is also
(05:57):
very expensive and there hasn'tbeen a lot of research or data
even around like well, isdigital a viable channel for a
nonprofit?
Because, you know, we hear thatretention is poor, we hear that
they don't upgrade as much.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
All of these maybe rumors or I guess, just maybe we
just think that for whatever,reason and sure, well, all it
takes is one person who had abad experience with it, right,
and they tell somebody.
And it's a small community, sothat word tends to travel pretty
quickly.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
Well, and to like where people started with
digital is like let's just doquote e-blast right, that was
digital to them, and so thelandscape of digital has
radically changed, and the greatthing about that is is that we
have data now to actuallysupport that.
Digital is not just a bolt onchannel, but it's a viable
channel to like start with, andso that's what's really cool
(06:47):
about that, and Greg can evenshare some of the data behind it
.
It's really fascinating of whydigital is so valuable.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
One thing that I would add there too is, I think,
to your point, megan, askinglike what is digital and how
does it apply?
I think there's, I would say.
You know, in the last nearlydecade of working with
charitable nonprofits to standup first time digital program, a
lot of organizations think ofit in terms of that direct mail
(07:19):
bolt-on.
So, the dog that wags the tailis the direct mail program, and
so therefore digital needs tobehave like direct mail, and I
think the reality is like I'vehad a lot of unorthodox, I guess
, if you want to call it thatlike digital programs.
And I think that spans tocertain nonprofit industry
segments like higher education,where historically, broadway's
(07:43):
annual fundraising programs hadto require somebody to come
through kind of the campusexperience, submission of the
organization and then graduateon and then develop their career
as a professional and createliquid assets that they could
get back to a charitable causelike their alma mater.
And I think, you know, whatwe've been able to do is kind of
(08:05):
break that conventionalthinking and instead look at
okay, meeting people wherethey're at, and saying look, if
nobody could experience thecampus or sit in a classroom,
how can we take the mission ofthe organization out to them?
And what do you have availableto you that we could package in
a way to go interrupt somebody'sday with digital, to meet them
(08:28):
where they're at?
Because I don't think people goonline looking to give
donations.
They don't just grab theirphone and go.
How can I make a charitabledonation today?
But in the digital channel whatwe have to do is find ways to
interrupt their day and thenunderstand what might be of
interest to them and start aconversation at that point.
(08:48):
And it's through that kind ofcontent offer development and ad
distribution model that we'vebeen able to develop over the
last 10 years that has become soeffective at taking the mission
of a charitable nonprofit,especially one that has
historically thought ofthemselves as kind of regionally
limited, in expanding the scopeof their available donor pool
(09:09):
to wherever a donor might be,based upon what their interests
are.
And I think then the question islike what does digital look
like once you disrupt that wholekind of continuum of thought,
right.
And so just being opportunistic, with it, I think, is the key.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
I mean, I would love to envision a world where people
are just sitting on their couchbeing like how can I give away
my money today?
Speaker 3 (09:29):
That would be what a glorious what a glorious thing
that would be.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
They make our jobs a lot easier.
Yeah right, absolutely, man.
That would just be so nice, butto your point, especially in
today's market, we've really gotto get that attention out there
and grab folks attention,because you have to give them a
reason to stop scrolling.
Well, and I think that they payattention.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
Yeah, and to that, Megan, it's not to get them to
stop for the sake of stoppingbecause we're so awesome, Of
course, and the organization isso awesome, right, it is a
matter of connecting with theirfelt needs.
I mean, it goes back to thefundamentals of fundraising, is
that?
You know?
We hear all the time is that,like people give to people, we
actually expand that and saypeople give when they feel
(10:13):
connected to people.
And so you know, when we'reinterrupting their day, it's not
to say like look how awesomeand big we are, you know, or
whatever the newest I don't knowthing that you're doing at the
nonprofit that you think thatpeople are excited about.
They're just, they're not goingto be because people are trying
to find something that ispersonal to them, connects with
(10:35):
them, aligns with them, and sothat interruption, as Greg was
mentioning, like he talked aboutcontent, offers or I would even
just say something of value tothem, what is going to connect
with them, whether it's a belief, a resource, something that is
something that is a value tothem, that will make them stop
(10:57):
and say, oh yes, I believe, Iagree, I want, I need and that's
the big part is is not to besplashy with necessarily
branding to say we're so greatit's to to really understand the
person on the other end, whatthey might be dealing with,
needing or desiring.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
So but that's such a hard switch, right, because we
are in our organizations day in,day out, we know what we're
excited about, right.
And it feels I don't know.
It almost feels backwards tolike I'm not going to be.
I want to.
I have to put myself in adifferent framework.
(11:34):
Is that something that you findnonprofits struggle with a
whole lot?
And, if so, how do we get overthat hump to like flip the
script?
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Very much so yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Cause it seems so counterintuitive.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
Yes, yeah, actually it's.
It's human nature that so we're.
You're telling us that we haveto go, like, think about what
others care about, but like Icare about me, the organization.
So it's such a funny thingbecause we're trying to put
ourselves with that hat of thedonor on, like with their
perspective in mind, and itactually goes against everything
(12:07):
that we have been told, taught,learned in the fundraising
space is best practices, this ishow we show up and represent.
But if the reality, if thetruth is, is that people give
when people feel connected toothers, then, like, we have to
be authentic and human andthat's the whole.
The whole goal is we can't beGreg what do you call it?
(12:31):
Like, we can't be like PizzaHut, like in their inboxes.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Unpack that for me.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Have you ever gotten an email from like a Pizza Hut
or a Domino's, just to be anequal opportunity?
Sure.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Yes, I have received pizza emails.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Yeah, well, describe what that process looks like.
It's highly stylized, it'simpersonal, it's all about them.
It's what kind of pizzas andpizza specials and maybe like
combo things that drive up theirrevenue?
Okay, that is pizza.
That's different than acharitable organization, because
you know it's a commodity.
(13:11):
You're trying to solve theproblem of what's for dinner and
so they can just batch andblast this highly stylized, you
know, highly polished kind ofbrand email to you and just
focus on how much money you'llsave if you put breadsticks with
it or something like that, but,like when we're trying to talk
about our missions, it's verydifferent, Right?
Because at the end of the day,like we're not discounting, you
(13:34):
know, we're not solving aproblem at you know, like your
family and your household, whichis like what's for dinner?
it's a much bigger and asocietal problem that we're
working on and what we have tobe able to do is kind of like
meet people where they're at andbegin the conversation with
them in a very radicallydifferent way.
And I think nonprofitorganizations by default,
(13:55):
especially the ones that arerunning their digital programs,
cut from the cloth of thatdirect mail.
First kind of mentality whatthey're doing is they're kind of
like replicating and protectingthe big brand image.
What they're doing is they'rekind of like replicating and
protecting the big brand imageand what that is, honestly,
candidly, what that's doing isit's separating them from a
(14:15):
personal connection with thisorganization.
It separates them even from thepeople that actually take the
(14:38):
mission and make it an extensionof what they're doing in their
broad based communications.
And so, even if we're liketrying to educate somebody, just
to stick in, stay in the youknow, the higher education kind
of vertical where it's like, youknow, we educate students, they
come onto the campus, they arehere for four years, maybe five
for some of us and then theygraduate, right, but our mission
is to educate students.
And if you take that mentalityand what you do instead is you
(15:02):
take the information that youwould teach in a classroom and
you package it in a way that youmake that available to the
donor audiences, kind of friendsto the college that are not on
the student, you know roles orwhatever you know enrollment,
kind of.
Then what you're doing isyou're taking your mission,
you're moving it outside of thefour walls of the campus, you're
(15:24):
finding people wherever they'reat across the country or across
the world, and what you'redoing is you're really
delivering on the mission of theorganization by educating other
people.
You just happen to do it throughan online course or something
like that, right, where you makethe teaching available to them
and then even I mean you canbolt that up if you want it and
(15:45):
offer certifications orsomething like that but you
don't even need to do that,because, at the end of the day,
your mission is to educatepeople, and so what you should
do is you should find ways toeducate people and then you
should put that in your legalprogram and you should promote
what the other person is getting.
And what they're getting is afree education from a highly
reputable and establishedinstitution, and they get to
(16:07):
better themselves throughinteracting with your brand, and
that's how the most effectivedigital programs that we've
worked on actually kind of takethat mentality.
So if you're always thinking,not how do I raise money, but
rather how do I get people tocare, well, you give them access
to your mission access to yourmission.
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Okay, so I'm going to go backto your Pizza Hut email for a
minute, because I had like alittle bit of a light bulb
moment as you were talking aboutthis, wherein, like if Pizza
Hut just sends me their basic,like here's all of your options
for dinner tonight and bolt onthe breadsticks and whatever,
(17:35):
fine.
But man, my light bulb momentwas around.
What if Pizza Hut or, fill inthe blank, like my local shop
down the street here?
What if that email reflectedwhat I ordered last time yeah,
and instead said like hey, it'sbeen a while since you, you know
, picked up the pepperoni.
What if that email reflectedwhat I ordered last time yeah,
and instead said like hey, it'sbeen a while since you, you know
, picked up the pepperoni loveror whatever the you know,
(17:56):
whatever the thing is.
When I now feel like they knowwho I am, you got it Right, and
so I'm thinking about that interms of what you're talking
about, greg, of like weunderstand who these folks are
and what they want.
We understand who these folksare and what they want.
I got an email not too long ago,a fundraising email, from a
nonprofit that I have supportedin the past.
I volunteer regularly with thisgroup on the performing arts
(18:19):
programming that they offer, andthe email that they sent me for
fundraising was all focused ontheir athletics programs.
Now, I am zero athletic.
There's like I have.
No, this is not my like, not mybandwidth, and it's maybe not a
passion or a cause that I amlike going to connect to.
But if that same email wouldhave gone to me with just a
(18:44):
couple language changes and aphoto change about performing
arts, I'm going to be much morelikely to engage with.
So I think that's the otherpiece of digital that's so
important is the ability or Iguess ideal is the ability to
personalize Well and with it,Megan, you actually.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
we're talking about Pizza Hut, think about any brand
, anything that you purchase orbuy, the best experiences.
Feel human, feel personal,right I love plants.
My plant lady.
She's not my lady, but shetexts me, at least I think she
texts me.
It's all automated, but I feelseen and heard and that we're
friends.
(19:20):
I it's even like big brands,like airlines.
I got a postcard in like when Iwas sitting in the back of an
airplane and I was not in somelike preferred seat, but they
wrote me a postcard told me howmuch they value me.
I'm like, oh my gosh, thank youso much.
I love you too.
And it's not just like that youfeel seen and recognized.
(19:40):
There's also an element of thisof like expectation.
So what has happened in thedigital space with all of these
brands, like big brands outsideof the nonprofit spaces?
They have created thisexpectation that.
I just saw the Amazon truckdrive by past my house, which
was actually shocking that hekept driving because he's
usually stopping.
(20:01):
When I buy something on Amazon,what happens?
Right away?
I am expecting that that emailis there.
I get a confirmation.
It uses my name, it tells mehow many days it's going to be
till I get it.
They're constantly updating meand that is what we have come to
expect from businesses, and sowe're crazy to think that donors
(20:22):
, prospective donors, don't havethose same expectations on us
as nonprofits and so we have tomeet them.
We have to meet thoseexpectations because when we
meet expectations we build trustand trust, you know, builds
loyalty and no wonder why wehave these major retention
issues at nonprofits, like, Ithink, the last status on the
last four years retention isdown like 12% just in the last
(20:46):
four years, and so we havesomething has to change.
And if we don't get seriousabout digital and we only say
serious about digital is like gotry and do things more than
just the email bus, start tokind of meet the expectations
that people have for you as anonprofit, I know we will see
those numbers turn, and I knowwe will because we run programs
(21:09):
that are meeting thoseexpectations, where retention
rates are improving becausewe're being human at scale and
building that trust, you know.
So, anyways, I just I'm like,yeah, they can do it, so can we.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Yes, yes that's a great phrase, though I love the
phrase of being human at scale.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
That's so good well, the reality is like yes,
everything that cordy said isright.
I mean we've seen this like inthe general consumer behaviorism
kind of reports that come outwhether it's e-market or anybody
else.
That is like packaging up howpeople consume media and how
they interact with theirfavorite brands.
It's almost entirely online now, right, and those for-profit
(21:50):
organizations have buku bucks.
They're driving profits,they've got big agency contracts
and they've got tons of data onthe customers to go personalize
those kind of experiences right.
Yeah, and the reality is thatthe nonprofits have a mountain
of first-party data about theirdonors, whether it's engagement,
behavior information, whetherit's giving information,
(22:13):
volunteerism, eventparticipation, et cetera.
And there's just such a wealthof information in the nonprofit
space that just isn't beingutilized.
But the technology is now at alevel where it enables that.
It's just not strategically putto use.
And, to your point, megan, likewe use a heuristic to determine
marketing effectiveness, andthe only multiplicative value in
(22:36):
that everything is additive, issubtractive in that formula.
But the only thing that'smultiplicative that gives you
the biggest lift is relevance.
But the only thing that'smultiplicative that gives you
the biggest lift is relevance.
No-transcript, leavingopportunity on the table.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Okay.
So let's imagine and I wouldlove to think that this is true,
but let's imagine for a momentthat the folks who are listening
to this particular episode Iknow a lot of them are in that
seat right.
A lot of them are like head offundraising, head of advancement
, whatever term you want to usein that particular vertical, and
(23:38):
I think a lot of them areprobably in that same boat.
Where digital has been a boltedon, we've taken the same
principles that we apply to allof our other things and just
assumed that it would work overhere on the digital space.
If someone really wants to takethat kind of first step of
doing digital for digital sake,right, or like making it
(24:01):
actually work, where do we evenget started?
What's like the first thing youwould say to somebody either to
test or to try Base level.
Where do we start?
Speaker 3 (24:12):
I mean there's kind of two.
There's two fronts of this.
I think there's the technologyside, that there's probably some
assessment and understanding ofwhat is possible with your
technology.
So there's that and we couldtalk about that whole.
That's a whole otherconversation.
In fact, we even will do likethese jumpstart programs.
(24:33):
We'll like look at your systemsand platforms and say, hey,
here are all the fixes that areneeded to have to be able to
grow and scale a digital program.
So like there's the technologybackend stuff on the very
practical, like I'm listeningtoday and I want to do something
the moment I'm done listeningto this.
Where do I begin?
Is I'm inspired I want to moveright.
(24:55):
Whatever your next communicationpiece is is actually that's.
That's where I would start isis to change the way that you
think about that message goingout and go from your pizza hut
email to something more human,more real and authentic.
And a great litmus test forthis is to just write it Like
(25:17):
you're talking to your friend.
I mean like, if I'm going toemail you, megan, I'm not going
to be like Megan, this isCourtney Cruz.
You know, go on like I'm like.
Hey, like how are you, how'syour day?
I hope you're doing well.
I just wanted to let you know x, y and z.
It's conversational, and agreat litmus test of that is,
once you write it, read it outloud and you will quickly see
(25:41):
how non-human it is and whereyou need to make some of those
tweaks.
But I would just say, like,whatever that next communication
piece is, see how much morehuman you can be.
And it's not just be like OK,we're changing our brand.
No, no, no, no, we're justtrying to connect with people on
the other end, other end, andthat's where I would just say,
(26:04):
that's where the power reallykind of happens and shines in
digital is that you can havereal live conversations with
folks, that this is not a mediumwhere you're just shooting it
out, blasting it out and youlike kind of clean your hands of
it and you're just like, yes,the thing is done, no, no, no.
We want to have the expectationthat it's a conversation.
So if you send something out tothem, expectation that it's a
(26:26):
conversation so if you sendsomething out to them, you
should actually invite them toto comment back, to reply back
to that email that you sent or,um, get, have them share their
opinion with you.
Whatever the thing is, it's aconversation and that's where
that that relationship starts.
And so that's where I wouldstart is just like changing the
way that we talk to people.
Um, we use this phrase, megan,at Amplify.
(26:47):
We're like don't be a bot,we're like be a human, yes, and.
And just see what can happenwithin your, within your program
.
It's truly the way that we'vebeen able to scale digital
programs is being human at scale, being authentic at scale.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
I love it.
Okay, so if we are trulyinspired at this point and we
want to learn more, maybe evento work with Amplify, how do we
find you guys connect more withyou or learn more about what you
guys are doing at Amplify?
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Yeah, sure.
So you can find us at AmplifyFR, which stands for fundraising,
Amplify Fundraising.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
Or For Real.
If you want to say For Real,which?
Speaker 2 (27:24):
stands for fundraising, Amplify Fundraising
, or for real if you want to sayfor real, Amplifyforrealcom.
And so we're online.
We're in the process of takingsome of this information and
just like packaging it into blogposts and I think you know
there's an email registrationthere if you want to follow kind
of the latest and greatest interms of what we discovered.
I think what we plan to do isjust not overload the inbox, but
(27:45):
take stuff that we're learningreal time and what causes it to
work, and then package it intothat email so that we can have
kind of easy tips for people toreplicate or to learn from and
make use of inside of theirprograms to inspire generosity.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
I love it.
Well, guys, as we wrap up, thequestion that we've been closing
every episode with so far thisseason is if you could give one
piece of advice or encouragementor wisdom to nonprofit leaders.
Obviously, everyone's had avery interesting year.
A lot of our sector has beenhit pretty hard across the board
on all sorts of differentfronts.
(28:21):
So if you could give one pieceof advice to, or wisdom,
encouragement to, those leaders,what would you say?
And, courtney, I'll start withyou.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
It's not about perfection, it's about man being
authentic.
So, again, not to continue todrum that you know that whole
beat of being human, but I can'temphasize it enough.
And so you know, whether you'vegot the challenges or struggles
that you've experienced thisyear or you don't even know
where to begin, is like youdon't have to be perfect in what
(28:52):
you're doing, like it doesn'thave to be polished, just try
something, do something.
Different is the emphasis hereis don't worry about what people
have told you, like this is howit should look, like what it
should sound like.
Be different, be real,authentic and not perfect.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
I love it, Greg.
How about you?
Speaker 2 (29:12):
For me, I would say.
You know, the one thing that Irun into the most is the
executive leadership looks atthe digital channel like a P&L.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
So they say I put this many dollars in.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
I should get this many dollars out.
I think the thing that makesdigital probably more unique
than any other channel is thatit can be an additive piece of
the recipe to everything thatyou're doing.
Whether it's finding differentways to kind of lift the
performance in another channel,in finding a way to kind of
attribute the activity and theinvestment of the limited
(29:45):
resources that we have in anonprofit organization in the
digital channel.
So whether that's like runningemails to people that we're
going to send a direct mail towe've run experiments on that
and seen that it increases theresponse rates and overall the
output of the direct mail letter.
Just saying, hey, I putsomething in the mail, be on the
lookout for it, and thenfollowing up after we know it
(30:05):
delivered in homes and just likeif you had any questions, feel
free to reach out, let me know.
I'd be.
I'd love to have somebody justanswer those for you.
Just something like that is areal practical way where, if
you've got a direct mail programor already running and that's
kind of where the lion's shareof your direct response revenues
is being generated find ways tojust be creative with digital
(30:25):
and just put one foot in frontof the other and see if it can
produce a better outcome in thechannels that you've already
committed to I love it.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Uh, so good, thanks guys.
This has been a fantasticconversation.
Appreciate you both taking thetime today thanks, megan,
appreciate you absolutely, again, my guests have been courtney
cruz and Greg Kalunga, who arethe managing partners at Amplify
Fundraising.
My name is Megan Spear.
This has been another episodeof the Nonprofit Hub Radio
podcast and we'll see you nexttime.
Non-profits.
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making an impact?
Save big on Adobe Acrobat Pro,the leading PDF and e-signature
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Slash nonprofits, slash acrobat.
Welcome back to the NonprofitHub podcast.
(00:24):
I'm your host, megan Spear,with my dear friends Courtney
and Greg.
So we have Courtney Cruz andGreg Kalunga, who are the
managing partners of AmplifyFundraising.
Very excited to dig in todigital with them today because
I feel like on the podcast sofar this season we've talked a
lot about fundraising in variouselements more on, like the high
(00:44):
level strategy, but notnecessarily digging into channel
by channel.
So I'm really excited to getkind of a deep dive on digital
today, and these are definitelythe people to do it.
So, courtney, greg, welcome in.
Thank you so much.
Great to be here.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Okay, so, courtney, introduce yourself.
Sure, to start off, give us alittle background about how we
got to the conversation todayhere.
What's your background innonprofit?
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Yeah, well, actually I was thinking about back on
this just the other day becauseI always say I'm like I've been
in fundraising for, you know, 10, 10, 15 years.
But I actually remember incollege volunteering at, like,
social service agencies anddoing a bunch of volunteer work
and, of course, you know,projects in college.
So I guess back in my collegedays I started but, career wise,
(01:31):
in the last 10 to 15 years I'vereally been focused on
fundraising for nonprofits,specifically in the digital
space, and you know I'veoverseen client partnerships at
agencies and now have kind oftaken this leap with Greg to
start our own agency calledAmplify.
So thrilled to be here and myheart honestly, is to help
(01:53):
nonprofits.
It's not just like to work withthese you know the big
nonprofits to continue to growrevenue for them.
My heart is for and withnonprofits, because I actually
worked at a nonprofit for almostsix years as well.
So I understand the pain, youknow, and the resourcing and all
of that and the challenges thatyou're up against, and so
(02:14):
really that's our heart anddesire.
Why we started Amplify was tohelp more nonprofits, because we
understand the pain thateveryone experiences.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
So, yeah, that's great, I love it.
And Greg, what about you?
What's your background in thenonprofit space?
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Yeah, well I've.
I've spent about a half of mycareer in the for profit space,
the other half working withnonprofits, but it's always been
in a fundraising or marketingconsultancy in marketing
services type agency of sorts.
And so, yeah, I started mycareer back in 2010 in
(02:48):
fundraising focused on digital.
My title was InternetStrategist.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Ooh, internet Strategist yeah yes, wow.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
You heard it in here first.
The World Wide Web, yes, yesand electronic email is what we
did do.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
I think we used to also bang rocks together back
then.
So yeah, started, startedworking at an agency here in the
dfw metroplex that waspredominantly a direct mail shop
and just kind of startedbolting digital capabilities in
because it was an emergingchannel that a lot of the
clients of that organizationreally wanted to focus on.
(03:25):
That group was acquired byanother group and so I stayed
for about six years and thenleft to go back to the
for-profit space for three for apublicly traded group and then
was recruited to go focus towork at a digitally focused
nonprofit for the last seven.
That's where I met Courtney.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
And actually fun fact , greg and I did not like each
other when we met each other andnow we've found a business
together.
That's maybe for another day.
Megan yeah, that that mightneed a whole different podcast.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Is there like a B side?
Speaker 1 (04:04):
of the podcast.
Right, can we do like outtakesand extras?
Speaker 3 (04:08):
things that you can learn about that no one really
and maybe actually the thebigger hot take is it's not that
we didn't like each other.
I actually didn't like greg, sothat's to be honest.
But anyways, go ahead greg.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
But we've gotten over that, we've moved past it and
now and now out of it, we haveamplify.
Yeah, right, what's?
Speaker 2 (04:24):
funny about that is I thought we were like best
friends from the beginning, soit took me a little while to
learn that.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Yeah, yeah, here we are today that's a rough spot,
okay, but we will definitelysave that for the b-side because
I think that would be anintriguing conversation of and
what could we learn from how toget along with people that you
didn't necessarily have a greatfirst impression.
They make great businesspartners eventually.
Absolutely Life lessons.
Okay, so we're digging in ondigital, which, now that we
(04:56):
don't call it internetspecialists or wherever it is, I
think we should bring it back.
Maybe, so let's level set justfrom the gate.
When we're talking aboutdigital, I think that even that
word by itself means a lot ofdifferent things to a lot of
different people.
Right, it can encompass web andemail and social and all
(05:19):
digital ad the whole nine.
There's so many things thatfall under that umbrella.
What do we want to startfocusing on here today?
Where do we want to start?
Which of those topics would youlike to start with?
Speaker 3 (05:33):
It goes back to Greg's point of like.
I was at an agency that boltedon digital and I think that is
exactly the area that we shouldfocus on, because that's really
happening at a lot of placesstill, and even nonprofits just
like they don't know what to do,and direct mail is what we've
always been told to do and startwith, but direct mail is also
(05:57):
very expensive and there hasn'tbeen a lot of research or data
even around like well, isdigital a viable channel for a
nonprofit?
Because, you know, we hear thatretention is poor, we hear that
they don't upgrade as much.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
All of these maybe rumors or I guess, just maybe we
just think that for whatever,reason and sure, well, all it
takes is one person who had abad experience with it, right,
and they tell somebody.
And it's a small community, sothat word tends to travel pretty
quickly.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
Well, and to like where people started with
digital is like let's just doquote e-blast right, that was
digital to them, and so thelandscape of digital has
radically changed, and the greatthing about that is is that we
have data now to actuallysupport that.
Digital is not just a bolt onchannel, but it's a viable
channel to like start with, andso that's what's really cool
(06:47):
about that, and Greg can evenshare some of the data behind it
.
It's really fascinating of whydigital is so valuable.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
One thing that I would add there too is, I think,
to your point, megan, askinglike what is digital and how
does it apply?
I think there's, I would say.
You know, in the last nearlydecade of working with
charitable nonprofits to standup first time digital program, a
lot of organizations think ofit in terms of that direct mail
(07:19):
bolt-on.
So, the dog that wags the tailis the direct mail program, and
so therefore digital needs tobehave like direct mail, and I
think the reality is like I'vehad a lot of unorthodox, I guess
, if you want to call it thatlike digital programs.
And I think that spans tocertain nonprofit industry
segments like higher education,where historically, broadway's
(07:43):
annual fundraising programs hadto require somebody to come
through kind of the campusexperience, submission of the
organization and then graduateon and then develop their career
as a professional and createliquid assets that they could
get back to a charitable causelike their alma mater.
And I think, you know, whatwe've been able to do is kind of
(08:05):
break that conventionalthinking and instead look at
okay, meeting people wherethey're at, and saying look, if
nobody could experience thecampus or sit in a classroom,
how can we take the mission ofthe organization out to them?
And what do you have availableto you that we could package in
a way to go interrupt somebody'sday with digital, to meet them
(08:28):
where they're at?
Because I don't think people goonline looking to give
donations.
They don't just grab theirphone and go.
How can I make a charitabledonation today?
But in the digital channel whatwe have to do is find ways to
interrupt their day and thenunderstand what might be of
interest to them and start aconversation at that point.
(08:48):
And it's through that kind ofcontent offer development and ad
distribution model that we'vebeen able to develop over the
last 10 years that has become soeffective at taking the mission
of a charitable nonprofit,especially one that has
historically thought ofthemselves as kind of regionally
limited, in expanding the scopeof their available donor pool
(09:09):
to wherever a donor might be,based upon what their interests
are.
And I think then the question islike what does digital look
like once you disrupt that wholekind of continuum of thought,
right.
And so just being opportunistic, with it, I think, is the key.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
I mean, I would love to envision a world where people
are just sitting on their couchbeing like how can I give away
my money today?
Speaker 3 (09:29):
That would be what a glorious what a glorious thing
that would be.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
They make our jobs a lot easier.
Yeah right, absolutely, man.
That would just be so nice, butto your point, especially in
today's market, we've really gotto get that attention out there
and grab folks attention,because you have to give them a
reason to stop scrolling.
Well, and I think that they payattention.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
Yeah, and to that, Megan, it's not to get them to
stop for the sake of stoppingbecause we're so awesome, Of
course, and the organization isso awesome, right, it is a
matter of connecting with theirfelt needs.
I mean, it goes back to thefundamentals of fundraising, is
that?
You know?
We hear all the time is that,like people give to people, we
actually expand that and saypeople give when they feel
(10:13):
connected to people.
And so you know, when we'reinterrupting their day, it's not
to say like look how awesomeand big we are, you know, or
whatever the newest I don't knowthing that you're doing at the
nonprofit that you think thatpeople are excited about.
They're just, they're not goingto be because people are trying
to find something that ispersonal to them, connects with
(10:35):
them, aligns with them, and sothat interruption, as Greg was
mentioning, like he talked aboutcontent, offers or I would even
just say something of value tothem, what is going to connect
with them, whether it's a belief, a resource, something that is
something that is a value tothem, that will make them stop
(10:57):
and say, oh yes, I believe, Iagree, I want, I need and that's
the big part is is not to besplashy with necessarily
branding to say we're so greatit's to to really understand the
person on the other end, whatthey might be dealing with,
needing or desiring.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
So but that's such a hard switch, right, because we
are in our organizations day in,day out, we know what we're
excited about, right.
And it feels I don't know.
It almost feels backwards tolike I'm not going to be.
I want to.
I have to put myself in adifferent framework.
(11:34):
Is that something that you findnonprofits struggle with a
whole lot?
And, if so, how do we get overthat hump to like flip the
script?
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Very much so yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Cause it seems so counterintuitive.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
Yes, yeah, actually it's.
It's human nature that so we're.
You're telling us that we haveto go, like, think about what
others care about, but like Icare about me, the organization.
So it's such a funny thingbecause we're trying to put
ourselves with that hat of thedonor on, like with their
perspective in mind, and itactually goes against everything
(12:07):
that we have been told, taught,learned in the fundraising
space is best practices, this ishow we show up and represent.
But if the reality, if thetruth is, is that people give
when people feel connected toothers, then, like, we have to
be authentic and human andthat's the whole.
The whole goal is we can't beGreg what do you call it?
(12:31):
Like, we can't be like PizzaHut, like in their inboxes.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Unpack that for me.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Have you ever gotten an email from like a Pizza Hut
or a Domino's, just to be anequal opportunity?
Sure.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Yes, I have received pizza emails.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Yeah, well, describe what that process looks like.
It's highly stylized, it'simpersonal, it's all about them.
It's what kind of pizzas andpizza specials and maybe like
combo things that drive up theirrevenue?
Okay, that is pizza.
That's different than acharitable organization, because
you know it's a commodity.
(13:11):
You're trying to solve theproblem of what's for dinner and
so they can just batch andblast this highly stylized, you
know, highly polished kind ofbrand email to you and just
focus on how much money you'llsave if you put breadsticks with
it or something like that, but,like when we're trying to talk
about our missions, it's verydifferent, Right?
Because at the end of the day,like we're not discounting, you
(13:34):
know, we're not solving aproblem at you know, like your
family and your household, whichis like what's for dinner?
it's a much bigger and asocietal problem that we're
working on and what we have tobe able to do is kind of like
meet people where they're at andbegin the conversation with
them in a very radicallydifferent way.
And I think nonprofitorganizations by default,
(13:55):
especially the ones that arerunning their digital programs,
cut from the cloth of thatdirect mail.
First kind of mentality whatthey're doing is they're kind of
like replicating and protectingthe big brand image.
What they're doing is they'rekind of like replicating and
protecting the big brand imageand what that is, honestly,
candidly, what that's doing isit's separating them from a
(14:15):
personal connection with thisorganization.
It separates them even from thepeople that actually take the
(14:38):
mission and make it an extensionof what they're doing in their
broad based communications.
And so, even if we're liketrying to educate somebody, just
to stick in, stay in the youknow, the higher education kind
of vertical where it's like, youknow, we educate students, they
come onto the campus, they arehere for four years, maybe five
for some of us and then theygraduate, right, but our mission
is to educate students.
And if you take that mentalityand what you do instead is you
(15:02):
take the information that youwould teach in a classroom and
you package it in a way that youmake that available to the
donor audiences, kind of friendsto the college that are not on
the student, you know roles orwhatever you know enrollment,
kind of.
Then what you're doing isyou're taking your mission,
you're moving it outside of thefour walls of the campus, you're
(15:24):
finding people wherever they'reat across the country or across
the world, and what you'redoing is you're really
delivering on the mission of theorganization by educating other
people.
You just happen to do it throughan online course or something
like that, right, where you makethe teaching available to them
and then even I mean you canbolt that up if you want it and
(15:45):
offer certifications orsomething like that but you
don't even need to do that,because, at the end of the day,
your mission is to educatepeople, and so what you should
do is you should find ways toeducate people and then you
should put that in your legalprogram and you should promote
what the other person is getting.
And what they're getting is afree education from a highly
reputable and establishedinstitution, and they get to
(16:07):
better themselves throughinteracting with your brand, and
that's how the most effectivedigital programs that we've
worked on actually kind of takethat mentality.
So if you're always thinking,not how do I raise money, but
rather how do I get people tocare, well, you give them access
to your mission access to yourmission.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
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Okay, so I'm going to go backto your Pizza Hut email for a
minute, because I had like alittle bit of a light bulb
moment as you were talking aboutthis, wherein, like if Pizza
Hut just sends me their basic,like here's all of your options
for dinner tonight and bolt onthe breadsticks and whatever,
(17:35):
fine.
But man, my light bulb momentwas around.
What if Pizza Hut or, fill inthe blank, like my local shop
down the street here?
What if that email reflectedwhat I ordered last time yeah,
and instead said like hey, it'sbeen a while since you, you know
, picked up the pepperoni.
What if that email reflectedwhat I ordered last time yeah,
and instead said like hey, it'sbeen a while since you, you know
, picked up the pepperoni loveror whatever the you know,
(17:56):
whatever the thing is.
When I now feel like they knowwho I am, you got it Right, and
so I'm thinking about that interms of what you're talking
about, greg, of like weunderstand who these folks are
and what they want.
We understand who these folksare and what they want.
I got an email not too long ago,a fundraising email, from a
nonprofit that I have supportedin the past.
I volunteer regularly with thisgroup on the performing arts
(18:19):
programming that they offer, andthe email that they sent me for
fundraising was all focused ontheir athletics programs.
Now, I am zero athletic.
There's like I have.
No, this is not my like, not mybandwidth, and it's maybe not a
passion or a cause that I amlike going to connect to.
But if that same email wouldhave gone to me with just a
(18:44):
couple language changes and aphoto change about performing
arts, I'm going to be much morelikely to engage with.
So I think that's the otherpiece of digital that's so
important is the ability or Iguess ideal is the ability to
personalize Well and with it,Megan, you actually.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
we're talking about Pizza Hut, think about any brand
, anything that you purchase orbuy, the best experiences.
Feel human, feel personal,right I love plants.
My plant lady.
She's not my lady, but shetexts me, at least I think she
texts me.
It's all automated, but I feelseen and heard and that we're
friends.
(19:20):
I it's even like big brands,like airlines.
I got a postcard in like when Iwas sitting in the back of an
airplane and I was not in somelike preferred seat, but they
wrote me a postcard told me howmuch they value me.
I'm like, oh my gosh, thank youso much.
I love you too.
And it's not just like that youfeel seen and recognized.
(19:40):
There's also an element of thisof like expectation.
So what has happened in thedigital space with all of these
brands, like big brands outsideof the nonprofit spaces?
They have created thisexpectation that.
I just saw the Amazon truckdrive by past my house, which
was actually shocking that hekept driving because he's
usually stopping.
(20:01):
When I buy something on Amazon,what happens?
Right away?
I am expecting that that emailis there.
I get a confirmation.
It uses my name, it tells mehow many days it's going to be
till I get it.
They're constantly updating meand that is what we have come to
expect from businesses, and sowe're crazy to think that donors
(20:22):
, prospective donors, don't havethose same expectations on us
as nonprofits and so we have tomeet them.
We have to meet thoseexpectations because when we
meet expectations we build trustand trust, you know, builds
loyalty and no wonder why wehave these major retention
issues at nonprofits, like, Ithink, the last status on the
last four years retention isdown like 12% just in the last
(20:46):
four years, and so we havesomething has to change.
And if we don't get seriousabout digital and we only say
serious about digital is like gotry and do things more than
just the email bus, start tokind of meet the expectations
that people have for you as anonprofit, I know we will see
those numbers turn, and I knowwe will because we run programs
(21:09):
that are meeting thoseexpectations, where retention
rates are improving becausewe're being human at scale and
building that trust, you know.
So, anyways, I just I'm like,yeah, they can do it, so can we.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Yes, yes that's a great phrase, though I love the
phrase of being human at scale.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
That's so good well, the reality is like yes,
everything that cordy said isright.
I mean we've seen this like inthe general consumer behaviorism
kind of reports that come outwhether it's e-market or anybody
else.
That is like packaging up howpeople consume media and how
they interact with theirfavorite brands.
It's almost entirely online now, right, and those for-profit
(21:50):
organizations have buku bucks.
They're driving profits,they've got big agency contracts
and they've got tons of data onthe customers to go personalize
those kind of experiences right.
Yeah, and the reality is thatthe nonprofits have a mountain
of first-party data about theirdonors, whether it's engagement,
behavior information, whetherit's giving information,
(22:13):
volunteerism, eventparticipation, et cetera.
And there's just such a wealthof information in the nonprofit
space that just isn't beingutilized.
But the technology is now at alevel where it enables that.
It's just not strategically putto use.
And, to your point, megan, likewe use a heuristic to determine
marketing effectiveness, andthe only multiplicative value in
(22:36):
that everything is additive, issubtractive in that formula.
But the only thing that'smultiplicative that gives you
the biggest lift is relevance.
But the only thing that'smultiplicative that gives you
the biggest lift is relevance.
No-transcript, leavingopportunity on the table.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Okay.
So let's imagine and I wouldlove to think that this is true,
but let's imagine for a momentthat the folks who are listening
to this particular episode Iknow a lot of them are in that
seat right.
A lot of them are like head offundraising, head of advancement
, whatever term you want to usein that particular vertical, and
(23:38):
I think a lot of them areprobably in that same boat.
Where digital has been a boltedon, we've taken the same
principles that we apply to allof our other things and just
assumed that it would work overhere on the digital space.
If someone really wants to takethat kind of first step of
doing digital for digital sake,right, or like making it
(24:01):
actually work, where do we evenget started?
What's like the first thing youwould say to somebody either to
test or to try Base level.
Where do we start?
Speaker 3 (24:12):
I mean there's kind of two.
There's two fronts of this.
I think there's the technologyside, that there's probably some
assessment and understanding ofwhat is possible with your
technology.
So there's that and we couldtalk about that whole.
That's a whole otherconversation.
In fact, we even will do likethese jumpstart programs.
(24:33):
We'll like look at your systemsand platforms and say, hey,
here are all the fixes that areneeded to have to be able to
grow and scale a digital program.
So like there's the technologybackend stuff on the very
practical, like I'm listeningtoday and I want to do something
the moment I'm done listeningto this.
Where do I begin?
Is I'm inspired I want to moveright.
(24:55):
Whatever your next communicationpiece is is actually that's.
That's where I would start isis to change the way that you
think about that message goingout and go from your pizza hut
email to something more human,more real and authentic.
And a great litmus test forthis is to just write it Like
(25:17):
you're talking to your friend.
I mean like, if I'm going toemail you, megan, I'm not going
to be like Megan, this isCourtney Cruz.
You know, go on like I'm like.
Hey, like how are you, how'syour day?
I hope you're doing well.
I just wanted to let you know x, y and z.
It's conversational, and agreat litmus test of that is,
once you write it, read it outloud and you will quickly see
(25:41):
how non-human it is and whereyou need to make some of those
tweaks.
But I would just say, like,whatever that next communication
piece is, see how much morehuman you can be.
And it's not just be like OK,we're changing our brand.
No, no, no, no, we're justtrying to connect with people on
the other end, other end, andthat's where I would just say,
(26:04):
that's where the power reallykind of happens and shines in
digital is that you can havereal live conversations with
folks, that this is not a mediumwhere you're just shooting it
out, blasting it out and youlike kind of clean your hands of
it and you're just like, yes,the thing is done, no, no, no.
We want to have the expectationthat it's a conversation.
So if you send something out tothem, expectation that it's a
(26:26):
conversation so if you sendsomething out to them, you
should actually invite them toto comment back, to reply back
to that email that you sent or,um, get, have them share their
opinion with you.
Whatever the thing is, it's aconversation and that's where
that that relationship starts.
And so that's where I wouldstart is just like changing the
way that we talk to people.
Um, we use this phrase, megan,at Amplify.
(26:47):
We're like don't be a bot,we're like be a human, yes, and.
And just see what can happenwithin your, within your program
.
It's truly the way that we'vebeen able to scale digital
programs is being human at scale, being authentic at scale.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
I love it.
Okay, so if we are trulyinspired at this point and we
want to learn more, maybe evento work with Amplify, how do we
find you guys connect more withyou or learn more about what you
guys are doing at Amplify?
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Yeah, sure.
So you can find us at AmplifyFR, which stands for fundraising,
Amplify Fundraising.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
Or For Real.
If you want to say For Real,which?
Speaker 2 (27:24):
stands for fundraising, Amplify Fundraising
, or for real if you want to sayfor real, Amplifyforrealcom.
And so we're online.
We're in the process of takingsome of this information and
just like packaging it into blogposts and I think you know
there's an email registrationthere if you want to follow kind
of the latest and greatest interms of what we discovered.
I think what we plan to do isjust not overload the inbox, but
(27:45):
take stuff that we're learningreal time and what causes it to
work, and then package it intothat email so that we can have
kind of easy tips for people toreplicate or to learn from and
make use of inside of theirprograms to inspire generosity.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
I love it.
Well, guys, as we wrap up, thequestion that we've been closing
every episode with so far thisseason is if you could give one
piece of advice or encouragementor wisdom to nonprofit leaders.
Obviously, everyone's had avery interesting year.
A lot of our sector has beenhit pretty hard across the board
on all sorts of differentfronts.
(28:21):
So if you could give one pieceof advice to, or wisdom,
encouragement to, those leaders,what would you say?
And, courtney, I'll start withyou.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
It's not about perfection, it's about man being
authentic.
So, again, not to continue todrum that you know that whole
beat of being human, but I can'temphasize it enough.
And so you know, whether you'vegot the challenges or struggles
that you've experienced thisyear or you don't even know
where to begin, is like youdon't have to be perfect in what
(28:52):
you're doing, like it doesn'thave to be polished, just try
something, do something.
Different is the emphasis hereis don't worry about what people
have told you, like this is howit should look, like what it
should sound like.
Be different, be real,authentic and not perfect.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
I love it, Greg.
How about you?
Speaker 2 (29:12):
For me, I would say.
You know, the one thing that Irun into the most is the
executive leadership looks atthe digital channel like a P&L.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
So they say I put this many dollars in.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
I should get this many dollars out.
I think the thing that makesdigital probably more unique
than any other channel is thatit can be an additive piece of
the recipe to everything thatyou're doing.
Whether it's finding differentways to kind of lift the
performance in another channel,in finding a way to kind of
attribute the activity and theinvestment of the limited
(29:45):
resources that we have in anonprofit organization in the
digital channel.
So whether that's like runningemails to people that we're
going to send a direct mail towe've run experiments on that
and seen that it increases theresponse rates and overall the
output of the direct mail letter.
Just saying, hey, I putsomething in the mail, be on the
lookout for it, and thenfollowing up after we know it
(30:05):
delivered in homes and just likeif you had any questions, feel
free to reach out, let me know.
I'd be.
I'd love to have somebody justanswer those for you.
Just something like that is areal practical way where, if
you've got a direct mail programor already running and that's
kind of where the lion's shareof your direct response revenues
is being generated find ways tojust be creative with digital
(30:25):
and just put one foot in frontof the other and see if it can
produce a better outcome in thechannels that you've already
committed to I love it.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Uh, so good, thanks guys.
This has been a fantasticconversation.
Appreciate you both taking thetime today thanks, megan,
appreciate you absolutely, again, my guests have been courtney
cruz and Greg Kalunga, who arethe managing partners at Amplify
Fundraising.
My name is Megan Spear.
This has been another episodeof the Nonprofit Hub Radio
podcast and we'll see you nexttime.
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