August 29, 2025 • 28 mins
In this eye-opening conversation, Rebecca Prejean, CEO and founder of EB Graphics Consulting, reveals a critical gap in nonprofit work that's keeping organizations from truly serving their communities. Driven by her personal journey as a mother of a child with autism, Rebecca discusses how 14% of working-age African Americans have disabilities, yet this intersection of race and accessibility remains largely invisible in nonprofit conversations. She explains why accessibility isn't just about inclusion—it's a technical skill set that requires intentional implementation, from ensuring websites work with screen readers to creating truly inclusive workplace environments. Rebecca provides practical starting points for resource-strapped nonprofits, including affordable audit options and free accessibility checkers, while challenging listeners to move beyond virtue signaling to genuine, comprehensive support. This powerful discussion exposes how nonprofits may unknowingly be excluding the very communities they aim to serve, both as clients and team members.
Get free nonprofit professional development resources, connections to cause work peers, and more at https://nonprofithub.org
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Welcome back to the NonprofitHub podcast.
(00:24):
I'm your host, Megan Spear,joined today by Rebecca Prejean,
who's the CEO and founder of EBGraphics Consulting.
Very excited to dig in withRebecca today in general, but
also because this is a fantasticpreview of CauseCamp.
Causecamp is coming up November4th and 5th in Pittsburgh this
year.
We're so excited Rebecca isgoing to be on the main stage.
(00:45):
Very excited to dig in with herand learn more from her at
CauseCamp, but great to dig inand have you on the podcast
ahead of that today.
Welcome in, Rebecca.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Thank you so much for having me.
It's really exciting.
I'm so excited about CauseCampand being on the podcast today.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Yes, so good.
Okay, so tell us a little bitabout yourself.
How did you get to a journeywhere we're having a discussion
around nonprofits today?
Speaker 2 (01:09):
A long journey is what I like to tell people, but
in terms of my career and thingsof that sort, I started working
in learning and development,actually probably about we're
going on about 12 years at thispoint, and I've done everything
from training to, you know,actually creating curriculum,
designing curriculum.
(01:29):
Before all of that, I actuallywas in graphic design as well
and I ended up starting my ownbusiness about the same time,
about 10 years ago, but I gotmore into accessibility about
seven years ago.
We're about seven because of myson he will be nine in July,
but he has autism and so for meit was a very personal journey
(01:50):
as we started to see just howhard it was for him, how hard it
was to get resources for himfrom both his educational
perspective as well asnonprofits.
And just our family journey.
Our family struggle really kindof got me working into
different businesses of alltypes, including nonprofits.
(02:10):
Nonprofits are always reallygood partners for what I do and
they're always really open.
So that's part of how we gotinto this discussion about
nonprofits.
But I always like to tell peoplesometimes the most personal
journeys can be the mostworthwhile, because without him
I wouldn't have the lens that Ihave about people with
disabilities, how they'retreated and seeing how they are
(02:33):
marginalized and how they arejust discriminated against in
every corner for us as a family.
But it gave me a lot of purpose, it gave me a lot of meaning,
and so now me, my company, whatwe do is we literally
evangelicalize people withdisabilities to corporate
(02:55):
nonprofit, anybody who willlisten or give us a chance and
it has been.
It's been a journey.
It's been a long journey butit's been so rewarding.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
I love it.
Yeah, your presentation forCauseCamp is entitled Good Isn't
Good Enough Bridging theDigital Divide Through
Accessibility.
So we're definitely going todig into that at CauseCamp.
But one of the things that Isaw in kind of the description
that you had led or had put inwith that and it's where I want
to jump off today is thatresearch shows that 14 of
(03:26):
working age african americanshave a disability of some sort,
and I'm going to tell you the.
The statistic kind of hit me,because that's not something
that we're talking about ever,right I?
This is not a conversation thatI've heard about how much it's
impacting especially communitiesof color, and what are we doing
(03:50):
about it.
My guess is very little, butbut yeah, so let's jump in and
have this conversation, becauseit's clearly not having
happening anywhere else.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
It's always an interesting dance is what I tell
people, especially fornonprofits, because nobody
starts a nonprofit and says I'mgoing to start this organization
and be another hurdle forpeople to jump over or another
wall or another barrier.
Nobody starts a nonprofit.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
We all have the best intentions.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Yes, we all start with what I want to help people.
I want to make a difference,but that means that we have to
be talking about all of thethings.
We all start with what I wantto help people.
I want to make a difference,but that means that we have to
be talking about all of thethings.
It can't always be everybodyevery time, all the time.
We really do sometimes have toparse it down and say what is
happening over here, and I thinkthat's part of the reason we're
(04:40):
not having that conversationabout African Americans and how
disabilities are reallyimpacting them, how
accessibility impacts them evenmore so, because another
statistic that is really jarredis that 22, around 22% of
African Americans with adisability are less likely to be
employed.
Wow.
So when you really start to getdown into some of these numbers
(05:03):
, it is clear we're not havingthe conversations we need to
have around color, arounddisability, around digital
accessibility.
We're just not having theseconversations.
And you know, megan, you and Iwere talking earlier and I'm
going to be a bit personal here.
As a woman of color who lives inthe South and has a child with
(05:23):
a disability, I will say part ofour problem is community
related.
We don't talk a lot aboutdisabilities in our community.
Sometimes we shy away from them.
My parents were much older mydad will be 80 in July, to give
you some perspective when Isuspected that my son was
autistic.
I suspected it probably aboutone, one and a half that he was
(05:46):
autistic, and I remember my momsaying there's nothing wrong
with that child, he's absolutelyfine.
And it wasn't an encouragement,it was fear that I heard in her
voice.
There is a lot of fear aboutwhat that means as a person of
color, if you are labeled ashaving a disability and so our
community, rather than talkabout the ways we can support in
(06:09):
a lot of times, rather than tryto look at this from a
different lens, we really dolook at it as something to be
fearful of, something to I don'twant to say shun or admonish,
but something to just really beavoided at all costs.
And there's some truth to thatright, because once you are
(06:30):
labeled as having a disability,there's other difficulties that
come with that on top of alreadybeing a person of color, and so
it's a little bit more scary insome ways.
But it's part of the reasonwe're not having a conversation.
We really have to step past thefear and step into the
realization that just becauseyou have a disability does not
mean that you are less than.
(06:51):
It might mean that you havedifferent supports that are
needed.
It might mean that you need somedifferent therapies.
It might mean that you live alife that looks a little
different from everybody else,but nobody's life looks the same
.
Sure, exactly.
If it does, we should be reallyconcerned.
But it's like everybody has adifference in some way in their
(07:12):
lives, and it's not saying thatyou're less than.
It's not saying that you don'tmatter.
It's not saying that you're notsmart.
It's just saying you might havea slightly different life, but
there's usually ways that we cansupport that and give you the
best life possible I.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
So I'm really excited to dig into this, because I do
think that this is a thing we'renot talking about enough and
and acknowledging right thatit's.
At times there are plenty ofbarriers just being a person of
color in certain scenarios.
So feeling like you are addingon to that, it kind of makes it
(07:50):
the double whammy.
So I understand the hesitancy,it's unfortunate and I, good
Lord, I wish we weren't still ina place where that was a
problem, but I definitelyunderstand the hesitancy.
So I think and I'm going totake this strictly from my white
girl perspective, rightUnderstanding that that's where
(08:11):
I'm coming from.
I think sometimes, again, whenwe set out to start a nonprofit,
we want to do good, we want tochange the world, we want to
impact this particular communityor this particular area, this
particular community or thisparticular area, but we and I
think this is true regardless ofskin color we tend to approach
everything from our ownperspective, right, and we might
(08:34):
tend to think about, maybe,somebody who is a different
color, different nationality,different gender, different
sexual orientation, differentwhatever, and yet the
accessibility, the disabilityconversation does not tend to
factor in, especially when we'retalking about diversity, and so
(08:54):
that's the thing that struck meas you were talking is like we
talk about diversity, we haveall these conversations about
diversity and inclusion withoutnecessarily recognizing that
there's a whole population beingexcluded from the conversation
because they're you know, wedon't tend to think of that as
diverse.
That's a problem.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Yeah, yeah, what I also like to tell people who
kind of ask me about, like DEIand accessibility and we have
these conversations.
I like people to kind ofunderstand a few things, but the
main thing is that DEI, yes, itis a practice, yes, it is a
concept, yes, it is all of thesethings and it is a belief
(09:35):
system.
I want people to start lookingat accessibility, though, as a
skill set, because accessibilityrequires a lot more technical
acumen than I think peoplerealize, especially when we're
talking about digitalaccessibility, because it's not
just making sure people areincluded, it's actually knowing
how to make the thingsaccessible and make them so that
(09:58):
they're inclusive.
No-transcript, I have layersthat people can actually click
(10:34):
on and can be triggered to maybestrip out some of the extra.
There is a skill set, atechnical skill set, to
accessibility, and so there'salways people and I understand
it people get very scared whenwe start talking about
accessibility as something kindof separate or, you know, in any
(10:55):
way not related to DEI.
It is related, they are veryrelated.
But there's another component toaccessibility that I think a
lot of people miss, especiallynonprofits, you know, and didn't
mean to segue.
Yeah, no, it's great, but it'slike nonprofits, miss it because
on their websites, people can'tread it with a screen reader.
(11:18):
Whoa, you know.
So who is blind or who has,like, a visual need for
accessibility, wants to donate.
They want to get involved, theywant to do these things for you
.
A screen reader has never,probably even been run on your
website.
So you're closing that door,you're closing that lane and
(11:41):
that avenue for people, peoplewho want to get help, that might
have visual accessibility needs.
They can't get help becauseyour website doesn't have that
part of the puzzle, and so I'vereally started to try to get
people to see yes, these thingsare related and we should talk
about them in relation to eachother because it is inclusivity.
(12:04):
But part of that equity, partof that inclusion, requires a
skill set, a technical skill setthat has to be present.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
So I can imagine that there are folks listening at
this point who are maybeexecutive directors, head of
development, their programdirectors, who are all going
yeah, but I don't even know.
These are not things I've everthought of, so I don't know
where to start.
Right moment of like, I don't.
(12:39):
I have no idea if my websitecan be read by a screen reader.
I have no idea, can I?
You know?
I don't know if the videos thatI'm putting out for training
are accessible and actually ableto to manage or be managed by
different disabilities.
Where do we start to to fixthis problem?
Speaker 2 (12:58):
What I tell people is I know nonprofits don't have a
ton of money, Correct, so thatgets to be a little scary
because it's like I want to dothese things but I have, like
you said, no, I have no ideawhere to start.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
Yeah, I didn't even know.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
I had a problem until two minutes ago and now, I've
got a ton of them, yeah, and Idon't have a bunch of money to
hire a consultant to fix it.
Completely understand.
Many people are in thissituation.
Got to start somewhere, though,yes, and so I don't want to say
hire a consultant, but hire aconsultant, yeah, there are tons
(13:32):
of us that are out there.
We don't necessarily live onlyin nonprofit land, we live in
other places, and there are alsovarying degrees of cost.
Some people will just do anaudit, for example, like I do,
like a 500 audit.
Um, it's probably the cheapestthing that I offer.
(13:52):
Most accessibility, consultantswill at least give you an audit
, which will then, you know,give you a blueprint of where to
go, and that cost in and ofitself, that $500, $200 in some
cases is enough to actually giveyou the map of what you should
be looking at and where you needto go.
(14:12):
If you're like Rebecca I'm asmall nonprofit I don't even
have the $500.
I don't have $200.
I've got nothing.
Perfectly fine, go online.
Yeah, and there are 20 ofaccessibility checkers for you.
I will say avoid AccessiBe.
Focus on Wave, which is areally, really good platform,
(14:34):
but it can run your website and,if nothing else, show you where
you're really at.
It will be able to show you isthis a problem?
How big of a problem am I in?
How big of a hole am I in?
And, to me, that's the beststarting point, especially for
nonprofits.
There's so many thingsnonprofits can look at,
(14:55):
including their internaltraining, external resources,
all of these things.
First thing I think that theyshould look at, though, is their
website, because you need tothink, before they even get to
these things, before they get tothese resources, are they even
able to get to the meat of whatwe do, to understand how we can
actually help?
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I would assume that if I'm asmall nonprofit that, for
(16:08):
example, offers services to theblind community, that I'm going
to be thinking about that inspades.
Right, but again, it'sbroadening.
This whole conversation callsus to broaden the way that we
think, because we think we knowwho needs our services and we're
(16:30):
forgetting that there could beall sorts of other people,
because it doesn't just have tobe a physical disability like
that.
There are plenty of cognitivelike that, there are plenty of
cognitive issues that folks arestruggling with and we tend to
not think about that, and so Ithink maybe the the first
takeaway, too before before youall panic, is just to to broaden
(16:52):
that thinking and realizebecause and again that's why I'm
really glad we're having thisconversation we don't tend to
talk about it, especially thecognitive, and so it's easy to
forget that those folks are inthe community of people that
you're serving.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
They are part of the communities.
Whether or not we talk aboutthem is almost irrelevant,
because it doesn't mean thatthey don't exist.
It just means that we're nothaving that particular
discussion.
They're going to be thereregardless and, as you pointed
out, cognitive disabilities arereally really important and they
continue to be increasinglycommon yes, increasingly common,
(17:31):
and so for some people I wantyou to think that's an almost
slightly easy, cheap fix,because you usually have your
web designers on staff.
Those are the people that canfix things, some of the things
for cognitive disabilities.
So it's not asking people tospend a ton of money to at least
(17:52):
get started.
It is asking, like you said, tobroaden these conversations,
broaden these thought processesthat we have, because you really
do have people who they want toengage, they want to support,
they want to get involved inyour nonprofits, your
organization, support your cause, especially in a world right
now where people are needed innonprofits, but they can't make
(18:14):
that step if you're not eventhinking about them or the
things that they need to getthrough the door.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Yeah, yeah, I'm just thinking, so I'm going to play
on an example, because I'mthinking about let's talk about
maybe a nonprofit that is, ahomeless shelter Right, I would
imagine?
Right, I would imagine rightthat you know the issue that you
(18:44):
think you're focused on ishomelessness, but there are so
many of the folks who are inunhoused communities that are
struggling with both physicaland cognitive impairments and
handicaps and disabilities.
I would hope that those folksare already thinking about that,
(19:04):
right, instead of just beinglike short-sighted to think the
problem is only homelessness.
It has to be bigger.
I think that's an example, forme at least, where I could say
we've really got to make surethat we're reaching all of the
pieces of someone because wewant them to be able to get the
help that they need.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Yeah, we want them to be helped, we want them to be
supported, but it goes, like yousaid right, it goes beyond
homelessness, it goes beyondcolor, it goes into disability
and I looked up fun facts todaybefore we did this, to be honest
with you, because I was workingon my cause camp thing but 51%
(19:44):
of African-Americans with adisability are more likely to
also experience poverty.
So when you talk about thatexample, it really does hit home
Like you're not just dealingwith the part that you can see.
You are dealing with somethings that are truly, truly,
truly deep and important andnecessary to talk about in your
(20:09):
organizations, and that's whyit's so important that people
understand what accessibilityreally is, because we can talk
about it all day.
You know, I'm glad we're havingthis conversation, we can talk
about it all day.
But if you never implementanything other than, let's say,
captions and I'm not knockingcaptions because they are
(20:29):
helpful, good idea well, likehelpful and good idea.
But it goes beyond that.
Yeah, and I never want to losesight of it, goes beyond those
things.
It goes beyond the captioning,it goes beyond the transcripts.
Those are easy wins and Iencourage anyone who's not doing
them to do them, becausethey're so easy to win,
(20:50):
especially now with AI, and youknow, being able to generate a
lot of things fairly quicklyknow being able to generate a
lot of things fairly quickly.
But there's also other thingsthat we have to look at.
We have to look at how we arebuilding our things, how we are
building our processes, how weare building our structures to
make sure that we see thesepeople, because they're there.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Yeah, and not just there in the people that we're
serving.
They're on our teams, right.
They might not be raising theirhand and disclosing that.
They might not, you know, itmight not be an obvious thing
that they're struggling with,but there are so many, even just
you know, they call them thesilent illnesses, right when
people are suffering with allsorts of different things and
(21:31):
they might not disclose that.
But even thinking about how wecreate a workplace so that
everybody is cared for andeverybody has the ability to do
their job effectively, it has tobe on both sides hey guys, they
walk among us so it's likethey're with us every day.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
They may not, like you said, feel comfortable
disclosing that, because thereare a lot of difficulties that
can sometimes come with thatdisclosure, whether it's in a
nonprofit or in a corporateenvironment, but they are on
your teams, they are leadingyour teams in some cases.
These are things we have totalk about.
You want more effective leaders, because that's always a
(22:14):
conversation lately, right, likeI want my leaders to be more
effective.
Accessibility is how you getthere, because, again, you're
going to be able to give themthe things they need to be able
to function at their peak right,and then that makes them a
better leader, which gives youbetter teams, which makes
everything run more smoothly.
They're in your team, sittingthere thinking I want to do my
best work, but they can'tbecause we're not giving them
(22:36):
the things that they need.
It's a conversation we've gotto start having in nonprofits,
and I always like to tell astory.
I used to work for a nonprofitback in the day and won't name
which one, and it's not on myLinkedIn.
Don't go looking at the LinkedIn, try to be messy but they
(22:56):
really touted hiring people withdisabilities and I worked in
their learning and developmentdepartment.
Not once did we ever go throughan accessibility check.
Not once did we ever talk aboutpeople with disabilities like
using our training internally,like this is for internal staff
never talked about it.
(23:17):
But we always talk about how wehire people with disabilities,
how we support that community,and to me I was like there's
such a disconnect there, acomplete and utter break of just
reality, when we can talk abouthow we are proud to hire them
and give them a chance, butwe're not actually giving them a
(23:39):
full chance at a fullrealization because we're not
giving them the support theyneed in training.
It's like there's a lot ofnonprofits that are like that we
want to help people that aredisabled, we hire people that
are disabled.
We focus on making sure thatthat group is seen, and right
now there might be somebodywho's like well, we make sure
they're seen.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Are you really making sure that they're seen in every
way, in every lens within yourorganization is the question
that has to be asked yeah, Ithink that's a really valuable
call out because I think it'seasy to it's like anything else
right, it's easy to virtuesignal, it's easy to to like
kind of wash over and tout ourlike, but when it comes to the
(24:24):
actual practical reality ofdoing people see, especially
your internal organization willsee through that and immediately
.
And nothing is going to deflatemorale faster.
Because if you are somebodywith a disability that walks in
going, look at this they're soproud of, of the fact that they
support this community, at thisthey're so proud of of the fact
that they support this community, and then I actually don't get
(24:45):
the support I need, that's goingto ruin reputations real quick
ruins reputations, it destroysmorale, yeah, and it it hurts
your retention yeah, likenobody's gonna want to stay with
If they're like.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
you promised me one thing and I'm getting this on
the back end, getting askedquestions, like in my annual
review, about why I'm not doingX or why I'm not doing Y.
But the real problem, the cruxof the issue, is that you guys
didn't provide me with what yousaid you would.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Yeah, Rebecca, this has been so good and I cannot
wait to hear more from theCauseCamp stage.
If this conversation hassomebody going, okay, but how do
I?
I don't know where to start.
I need to talk to a consultant.
I'm interested in doing theaudit.
How do we find you?
What's the best way to connectand reach out with?
Speaker 2 (25:39):
I would say absolutely.
Talk to me.
I'm not a hard sale person.
That's not what I do.
So even if I'm not a fit, I canhelp, at least guide you in the
right direction.
But I'm always available viaemail.
Rebeccaprajan at ebgcnet.
You can also, if you're likeRebecca I have no idea how to
(26:00):
spell your last name Perfectlyfair Reach out to me via
LinkedIn.
You can type in EV Graphics andConsulting, or even just type
in my name and I'm the only onethat pops up.
Those are really the two mainways that people can reach me.
I'm always looking at the emailcompletely unhealthy, but I'm
working on it.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
We're going to work on those boundaries.
It's going to be great.
If you need to know more aboutRebecca's session, you can head
over to our cause camp websiteas well, which is causecamp.
You can click there and findthe whole list of speakers and
all of their sessions.
You can see how to spellRebecca's last name.
If that's helpful to you, makesure that you can get in contact
(26:36):
with her, but definitely makesure that you join us at cause
camp.
We want to see you there sothat you can continue to learn
from all sorts of industryprofessionals, just like Rebecca
.
As we wrap up, the questionthat I've been asking everyone
in this season is if you couldgive one piece of advice or
encouragement to nonprofitleaders.
What would that be?
(26:57):
What's your parting wisdom fortoday?
Your parting?
Speaker 2 (27:00):
wisdom for today.
Somebody has to do the work,and work is not always pleasant,
work is not always fun I mean,that's just the way that life is
but somebody has to do the work.
It is not an easy time rightnow for nonprofits.
It's not an easy time for theEI focused organizations.
(27:22):
It is not an easy time.
It's work.
Yeah, you have to do the workso that people can continue to
get the things that they need,because without you, without
that work, you leave as we'vetalked about this whole time a
whole swath of people justcompletely unseen, completely
unsupported and just completelyunhelped, and that's not what
anybody started theirorganization for.
(27:43):
So remember that, even rightnow, where it just feels like it
is impossible, it is crazy, itis.
I just want to stop.
The work is the work and you'vegot to do the work and there's
always something good that comesout of the work, like when you
do the work, good things happen.
So keep doing the work, y'all.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
I love it.
Thank you so much, Rebecca.
This has been a fantasticdiscussion.
I really appreciate all of yourwisdom that you had to share,
and I think it's going to be areally important conversation
for nonprofits across the board.
So thank you so much for havingme.
I'm excited to see everybodyAgain.
(28:27):
This has been another episodeof the Nonprofit Hub podcast
with our guest, Rebecca Prejean,who's the CEO and founder of EB
Graphics and Consulting.
My name is Megan Spear.
We'll see you next time.
Non-profits.
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making an impact?
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Slash nonprofits, slash acrobat.
Welcome back to the NonprofitHub podcast.
(00:24):
I'm your host, Megan Spear,joined today by Rebecca Prejean,
who's the CEO and founder of EBGraphics Consulting.
Very excited to dig in withRebecca today in general, but
also because this is a fantasticpreview of CauseCamp.
Causecamp is coming up November4th and 5th in Pittsburgh this
year.
We're so excited Rebecca isgoing to be on the main stage.
(00:45):
Very excited to dig in with herand learn more from her at
CauseCamp, but great to dig inand have you on the podcast
ahead of that today.
Welcome in, Rebecca.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Thank you so much for having me.
It's really exciting.
I'm so excited about CauseCampand being on the podcast today.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Yes, so good.
Okay, so tell us a little bitabout yourself.
How did you get to a journeywhere we're having a discussion
around nonprofits today?
Speaker 2 (01:09):
A long journey is what I like to tell people, but
in terms of my career and thingsof that sort, I started working
in learning and development,actually probably about we're
going on about 12 years at thispoint, and I've done everything
from training to, you know,actually creating curriculum,
designing curriculum.
(01:29):
Before all of that, I actuallywas in graphic design as well
and I ended up starting my ownbusiness about the same time,
about 10 years ago, but I gotmore into accessibility about
seven years ago.
We're about seven because of myson he will be nine in July,
but he has autism and so for meit was a very personal journey
(01:50):
as we started to see just howhard it was for him, how hard it
was to get resources for himfrom both his educational
perspective as well asnonprofits.
And just our family journey.
Our family struggle really kindof got me working into
different businesses of alltypes, including nonprofits.
(02:10):
Nonprofits are always reallygood partners for what I do and
they're always really open.
So that's part of how we gotinto this discussion about
nonprofits.
But I always like to tell peoplesometimes the most personal
journeys can be the mostworthwhile, because without him
I wouldn't have the lens that Ihave about people with
disabilities, how they'retreated and seeing how they are
(02:33):
marginalized and how they arejust discriminated against in
every corner for us as a family.
But it gave me a lot of purpose, it gave me a lot of meaning,
and so now me, my company, whatwe do is we literally
evangelicalize people withdisabilities to corporate
(02:55):
nonprofit, anybody who willlisten or give us a chance and
it has been.
It's been a journey.
It's been a long journey butit's been so rewarding.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
I love it.
Yeah, your presentation forCauseCamp is entitled Good Isn't
Good Enough Bridging theDigital Divide Through
Accessibility.
So we're definitely going todig into that at CauseCamp.
But one of the things that Isaw in kind of the description
that you had led or had put inwith that and it's where I want
to jump off today is thatresearch shows that 14 of
(03:26):
working age african americanshave a disability of some sort,
and I'm going to tell you the.
The statistic kind of hit me,because that's not something
that we're talking about ever,right I?
This is not a conversation thatI've heard about how much it's
impacting especially communitiesof color, and what are we doing
(03:50):
about it.
My guess is very little, butbut yeah, so let's jump in and
have this conversation, becauseit's clearly not having
happening anywhere else.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
It's always an interesting dance is what I tell
people, especially fornonprofits, because nobody
starts a nonprofit and says I'mgoing to start this organization
and be another hurdle forpeople to jump over or another
wall or another barrier.
Nobody starts a nonprofit.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
We all have the best intentions.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Yes, we all start with what I want to help people.
I want to make a difference,but that means that we have to
be talking about all of thethings.
We all start with what I wantto help people.
I want to make a difference,but that means that we have to
be talking about all of thethings.
It can't always be everybodyevery time, all the time.
We really do sometimes have toparse it down and say what is
happening over here, and I thinkthat's part of the reason we're
(04:40):
not having that conversationabout African Americans and how
disabilities are reallyimpacting them, how
accessibility impacts them evenmore so, because another
statistic that is really jarredis that 22, around 22% of
African Americans with adisability are less likely to be
employed.
Wow.
So when you really start to getdown into some of these numbers
(05:03):
, it is clear we're not havingthe conversations we need to
have around color, arounddisability, around digital
accessibility.
We're just not having theseconversations.
And you know, megan, you and Iwere talking earlier and I'm
going to be a bit personal here.
As a woman of color who lives inthe South and has a child with
(05:23):
a disability, I will say part ofour problem is community
related.
We don't talk a lot aboutdisabilities in our community.
Sometimes we shy away from them.
My parents were much older mydad will be 80 in July, to give
you some perspective when Isuspected that my son was
autistic.
I suspected it probably aboutone, one and a half that he was
(05:46):
autistic, and I remember my momsaying there's nothing wrong
with that child, he's absolutelyfine.
And it wasn't an encouragement,it was fear that I heard in her
voice.
There is a lot of fear aboutwhat that means as a person of
color, if you are labeled ashaving a disability and so our
community, rather than talkabout the ways we can support in
(06:09):
a lot of times, rather than tryto look at this from a
different lens, we really dolook at it as something to be
fearful of, something to I don'twant to say shun or admonish,
but something to just really beavoided at all costs.
And there's some truth to thatright, because once you are
(06:30):
labeled as having a disability,there's other difficulties that
come with that on top of alreadybeing a person of color, and so
it's a little bit more scary insome ways.
But it's part of the reasonwe're not having a conversation.
We really have to step past thefear and step into the
realization that just becauseyou have a disability does not
mean that you are less than.
(06:51):
It might mean that you havedifferent supports that are
needed.
It might mean that you need somedifferent therapies.
It might mean that you live alife that looks a little
different from everybody else,but nobody's life looks the same
.
Sure, exactly.
If it does, we should be reallyconcerned.
But it's like everybody has adifference in some way in their
(07:12):
lives, and it's not saying thatyou're less than.
It's not saying that you don'tmatter.
It's not saying that you're notsmart.
It's just saying you might havea slightly different life, but
there's usually ways that we cansupport that and give you the
best life possible I.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
So I'm really excited to dig into this, because I do
think that this is a thing we'renot talking about enough and
and acknowledging right thatit's.
At times there are plenty ofbarriers just being a person of
color in certain scenarios.
So feeling like you are addingon to that, it kind of makes it
(07:50):
the double whammy.
So I understand the hesitancy,it's unfortunate and I, good
Lord, I wish we weren't still ina place where that was a
problem, but I definitelyunderstand the hesitancy.
So I think and I'm going totake this strictly from my white
girl perspective, rightUnderstanding that that's where
(08:11):
I'm coming from.
I think sometimes, again, whenwe set out to start a nonprofit,
we want to do good, we want tochange the world, we want to
impact this particular communityor this particular area, this
particular community or thisparticular area, but we and I
think this is true regardless ofskin color we tend to approach
everything from our ownperspective, right, and we might
(08:34):
tend to think about, maybe,somebody who is a different
color, different nationality,different gender, different
sexual orientation, differentwhatever, and yet the
accessibility, the disabilityconversation does not tend to
factor in, especially when we'retalking about diversity, and so
(08:54):
that's the thing that struck meas you were talking is like we
talk about diversity, we haveall these conversations about
diversity and inclusion withoutnecessarily recognizing that
there's a whole population beingexcluded from the conversation
because they're you know, wedon't tend to think of that as
diverse.
That's a problem.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Yeah, yeah, what I also like to tell people who
kind of ask me about, like DEIand accessibility and we have
these conversations.
I like people to kind ofunderstand a few things, but the
main thing is that DEI, yes, itis a practice, yes, it is a
concept, yes, it is all of thesethings and it is a belief
(09:35):
system.
I want people to start lookingat accessibility, though, as a
skill set, because accessibilityrequires a lot more technical
acumen than I think peoplerealize, especially when we're
talking about digitalaccessibility, because it's not
just making sure people areincluded, it's actually knowing
how to make the thingsaccessible and make them so that
(09:58):
they're inclusive.
No-transcript, I have layersthat people can actually click
(10:34):
on and can be triggered to maybestrip out some of the extra.
There is a skill set, atechnical skill set, to
accessibility, and so there'salways people and I understand
it people get very scared whenwe start talking about
accessibility as something kindof separate or, you know, in any
(10:55):
way not related to DEI.
It is related, they are veryrelated.
But there's another component toaccessibility that I think a
lot of people miss, especiallynonprofits, you know, and didn't
mean to segue.
Yeah, no, it's great, but it'slike nonprofits, miss it because
on their websites, people can'tread it with a screen reader.
(11:18):
Whoa, you know.
So who is blind or who has,like, a visual need for
accessibility, wants to donate.
They want to get involved, theywant to do these things for you
.
A screen reader has never,probably even been run on your
website.
So you're closing that door,you're closing that lane and
(11:41):
that avenue for people, peoplewho want to get help, that might
have visual accessibility needs.
They can't get help becauseyour website doesn't have that
part of the puzzle, and so I'vereally started to try to get
people to see yes, these thingsare related and we should talk
about them in relation to eachother because it is inclusivity.
(12:04):
But part of that equity, partof that inclusion, requires a
skill set, a technical skill setthat has to be present.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
So I can imagine that there are folks listening at
this point who are maybeexecutive directors, head of
development, their programdirectors, who are all going
yeah, but I don't even know.
These are not things I've everthought of, so I don't know
where to start.
Right moment of like, I don't.
(12:39):
I have no idea if my websitecan be read by a screen reader.
I have no idea, can I?
You know?
I don't know if the videos thatI'm putting out for training
are accessible and actually ableto to manage or be managed by
different disabilities.
Where do we start to to fixthis problem?
Speaker 2 (12:58):
What I tell people is I know nonprofits don't have a
ton of money, Correct, so thatgets to be a little scary
because it's like I want to dothese things but I have, like
you said, no, I have no ideawhere to start.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
Yeah, I didn't even know.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
I had a problem until two minutes ago and now, I've
got a ton of them, yeah, and Idon't have a bunch of money to
hire a consultant to fix it.
Completely understand.
Many people are in thissituation.
Got to start somewhere, though,yes, and so I don't want to say
hire a consultant, but hire aconsultant, yeah, there are tons
(13:32):
of us that are out there.
We don't necessarily live onlyin nonprofit land, we live in
other places, and there are alsovarying degrees of cost.
Some people will just do anaudit, for example, like I do,
like a 500 audit.
Um, it's probably the cheapestthing that I offer.
(13:52):
Most accessibility, consultantswill at least give you an audit
, which will then, you know,give you a blueprint of where to
go, and that cost in and ofitself, that $500, $200 in some
cases is enough to actually giveyou the map of what you should
be looking at and where you needto go.
(14:12):
If you're like Rebecca I'm asmall nonprofit I don't even
have the $500.
I don't have $200.
I've got nothing.
Perfectly fine, go online.
Yeah, and there are 20 ofaccessibility checkers for you.
I will say avoid AccessiBe.
Focus on Wave, which is areally, really good platform,
(14:34):
but it can run your website and,if nothing else, show you where
you're really at.
It will be able to show you isthis a problem?
How big of a problem am I in?
How big of a hole am I in?
And, to me, that's the beststarting point, especially for
nonprofits.
There's so many thingsnonprofits can look at,
(14:55):
including their internaltraining, external resources,
all of these things.
First thing I think that theyshould look at, though, is their
website, because you need tothink, before they even get to
these things, before they get tothese resources, are they even
able to get to the meat of whatwe do, to understand how we can
actually help?
Speaker 1 (15:24):
we can actually help.
If you want to spend less timeon paperwork and more time
making an impact, we have thesolution for you.
With Adobe Acrobat Pro, you canstreamline reports, speed up
contracts with e-signatures andcreate polished PDFs that
inspire donors and engagevolunteers.
Work smarter with cloud access,top-tier security and powerful
editing tools designed for teamson a mission.
And with special nonprofitpricing it's efficiency you can
(15:48):
afford.
Apply for your discount now atadobecom.
Slash nonprofits, slash acrobat.
I would assume that if I'm asmall nonprofit that, for
(16:08):
example, offers services to theblind community, that I'm going
to be thinking about that inspades.
Right, but again, it'sbroadening.
This whole conversation callsus to broaden the way that we
think, because we think we knowwho needs our services and we're
(16:30):
forgetting that there could beall sorts of other people,
because it doesn't just have tobe a physical disability like
that.
There are plenty of cognitivelike that, there are plenty of
cognitive issues that folks arestruggling with and we tend to
not think about that, and so Ithink maybe the the first
takeaway, too before before youall panic, is just to to broaden
(16:52):
that thinking and realizebecause and again that's why I'm
really glad we're having thisconversation we don't tend to
talk about it, especially thecognitive, and so it's easy to
forget that those folks are inthe community of people that
you're serving.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
They are part of the communities.
Whether or not we talk aboutthem is almost irrelevant,
because it doesn't mean thatthey don't exist.
It just means that we're nothaving that particular
discussion.
They're going to be thereregardless and, as you pointed
out, cognitive disabilities arereally really important and they
continue to be increasinglycommon yes, increasingly common,
(17:31):
and so for some people I wantyou to think that's an almost
slightly easy, cheap fix,because you usually have your
web designers on staff.
Those are the people that canfix things, some of the things
for cognitive disabilities.
So it's not asking people tospend a ton of money to at least
(17:52):
get started.
It is asking, like you said, tobroaden these conversations,
broaden these thought processesthat we have, because you really
do have people who they want toengage, they want to support,
they want to get involved inyour nonprofits, your
organization, support your cause, especially in a world right
now where people are needed innonprofits, but they can't make
(18:14):
that step if you're not eventhinking about them or the
things that they need to getthrough the door.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Yeah, yeah, I'm just thinking, so I'm going to play
on an example, because I'mthinking about let's talk about
maybe a nonprofit that is, ahomeless shelter Right, I would
imagine?
Right, I would imagine rightthat you know the issue that you
(18:44):
think you're focused on ishomelessness, but there are so
many of the folks who are inunhoused communities that are
struggling with both physicaland cognitive impairments and
handicaps and disabilities.
I would hope that those folksare already thinking about that,
(19:04):
right, instead of just beinglike short-sighted to think the
problem is only homelessness.
It has to be bigger.
I think that's an example, forme at least, where I could say
we've really got to make surethat we're reaching all of the
pieces of someone because wewant them to be able to get the
help that they need.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Yeah, we want them to be helped, we want them to be
supported, but it goes, like yousaid right, it goes beyond
homelessness, it goes beyondcolor, it goes into disability
and I looked up fun facts todaybefore we did this, to be honest
with you, because I was workingon my cause camp thing but 51%
(19:44):
of African-Americans with adisability are more likely to
also experience poverty.
So when you talk about thatexample, it really does hit home
Like you're not just dealingwith the part that you can see.
You are dealing with somethings that are truly, truly,
truly deep and important andnecessary to talk about in your
(20:09):
organizations, and that's whyit's so important that people
understand what accessibilityreally is, because we can talk
about it all day.
You know, I'm glad we're havingthis conversation, we can talk
about it all day.
But if you never implementanything other than, let's say,
captions and I'm not knockingcaptions because they are
(20:29):
helpful, good idea well, likehelpful and good idea.
But it goes beyond that.
Yeah, and I never want to losesight of it, goes beyond those
things.
It goes beyond the captioning,it goes beyond the transcripts.
Those are easy wins and Iencourage anyone who's not doing
them to do them, becausethey're so easy to win,
(20:50):
especially now with AI, and youknow, being able to generate a
lot of things fairly quicklyknow being able to generate a
lot of things fairly quickly.
But there's also other thingsthat we have to look at.
We have to look at how we arebuilding our things, how we are
building our processes, how weare building our structures to
make sure that we see thesepeople, because they're there.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Yeah, and not just there in the people that we're
serving.
They're on our teams, right.
They might not be raising theirhand and disclosing that.
They might not, you know, itmight not be an obvious thing
that they're struggling with,but there are so many, even just
you know, they call them thesilent illnesses, right when
people are suffering with allsorts of different things and
(21:31):
they might not disclose that.
But even thinking about how wecreate a workplace so that
everybody is cared for andeverybody has the ability to do
their job effectively, it has tobe on both sides hey guys, they
walk among us so it's likethey're with us every day.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
They may not, like you said, feel comfortable
disclosing that, because thereare a lot of difficulties that
can sometimes come with thatdisclosure, whether it's in a
nonprofit or in a corporateenvironment, but they are on
your teams, they are leadingyour teams in some cases.
These are things we have totalk about.
You want more effective leaders, because that's always a
(22:14):
conversation lately, right, likeI want my leaders to be more
effective.
Accessibility is how you getthere, because, again, you're
going to be able to give themthe things they need to be able
to function at their peak right,and then that makes them a
better leader, which gives youbetter teams, which makes
everything run more smoothly.
They're in your team, sittingthere thinking I want to do my
best work, but they can'tbecause we're not giving them
(22:36):
the things that they need.
It's a conversation we've gotto start having in nonprofits,
and I always like to tell astory.
I used to work for a nonprofitback in the day and won't name
which one, and it's not on myLinkedIn.
Don't go looking at the LinkedIn, try to be messy but they
(22:56):
really touted hiring people withdisabilities and I worked in
their learning and developmentdepartment.
Not once did we ever go throughan accessibility check.
Not once did we ever talk aboutpeople with disabilities like
using our training internally,like this is for internal staff
never talked about it.
(23:17):
But we always talk about how wehire people with disabilities,
how we support that community,and to me I was like there's
such a disconnect there, acomplete and utter break of just
reality, when we can talk abouthow we are proud to hire them
and give them a chance, butwe're not actually giving them a
(23:39):
full chance at a fullrealization because we're not
giving them the support theyneed in training.
It's like there's a lot ofnonprofits that are like that we
want to help people that aredisabled, we hire people that
are disabled.
We focus on making sure thatthat group is seen, and right
now there might be somebodywho's like well, we make sure
they're seen.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Are you really making sure that they're seen in every
way, in every lens within yourorganization is the question
that has to be asked yeah, Ithink that's a really valuable
call out because I think it'seasy to it's like anything else
right, it's easy to virtuesignal, it's easy to to like
kind of wash over and tout ourlike, but when it comes to the
(24:24):
actual practical reality ofdoing people see, especially
your internal organization willsee through that and immediately
.
And nothing is going to deflatemorale faster.
Because if you are somebodywith a disability that walks in
going, look at this they're soproud of, of the fact that they
support this community, at thisthey're so proud of of the fact
that they support this community, and then I actually don't get
(24:45):
the support I need, that's goingto ruin reputations real quick
ruins reputations, it destroysmorale, yeah, and it it hurts
your retention yeah, likenobody's gonna want to stay with
If they're like.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
you promised me one thing and I'm getting this on
the back end, getting askedquestions, like in my annual
review, about why I'm not doingX or why I'm not doing Y.
But the real problem, the cruxof the issue, is that you guys
didn't provide me with what yousaid you would.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Yeah, Rebecca, this has been so good and I cannot
wait to hear more from theCauseCamp stage.
If this conversation hassomebody going, okay, but how do
I?
I don't know where to start.
I need to talk to a consultant.
I'm interested in doing theaudit.
How do we find you?
What's the best way to connectand reach out with?
Speaker 2 (25:39):
I would say absolutely.
Talk to me.
I'm not a hard sale person.
That's not what I do.
So even if I'm not a fit, I canhelp, at least guide you in the
right direction.
But I'm always available viaemail.
Rebeccaprajan at ebgcnet.
You can also, if you're likeRebecca I have no idea how to
(26:00):
spell your last name Perfectlyfair Reach out to me via
LinkedIn.
You can type in EV Graphics andConsulting, or even just type
in my name and I'm the only onethat pops up.
Those are really the two mainways that people can reach me.
I'm always looking at the emailcompletely unhealthy, but I'm
working on it.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
We're going to work on those boundaries.
It's going to be great.
If you need to know more aboutRebecca's session, you can head
over to our cause camp websiteas well, which is causecamp.
You can click there and findthe whole list of speakers and
all of their sessions.
You can see how to spellRebecca's last name.
If that's helpful to you, makesure that you can get in contact
(26:36):
with her, but definitely makesure that you join us at cause
camp.
We want to see you there sothat you can continue to learn
from all sorts of industryprofessionals, just like Rebecca
.
As we wrap up, the questionthat I've been asking everyone
in this season is if you couldgive one piece of advice or
encouragement to nonprofitleaders.
What would that be?
(26:57):
What's your parting wisdom fortoday?
Your parting?
Speaker 2 (27:00):
wisdom for today.
Somebody has to do the work,and work is not always pleasant,
work is not always fun I mean,that's just the way that life is
but somebody has to do the work.
It is not an easy time rightnow for nonprofits.
It's not an easy time for theEI focused organizations.
(27:22):
It is not an easy time.
It's work.
Yeah, you have to do the workso that people can continue to
get the things that they need,because without you, without
that work, you leave as we'vetalked about this whole time a
whole swath of people justcompletely unseen, completely
unsupported and just completelyunhelped, and that's not what
anybody started theirorganization for.
(27:43):
So remember that, even rightnow, where it just feels like it
is impossible, it is crazy, itis.
I just want to stop.
The work is the work and you'vegot to do the work and there's
always something good that comesout of the work, like when you
do the work, good things happen.
So keep doing the work, y'all.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
I love it.
Thank you so much, Rebecca.
This has been a fantasticdiscussion.
I really appreciate all of yourwisdom that you had to share,
and I think it's going to be areally important conversation
for nonprofits across the board.
So thank you so much for havingme.
I'm excited to see everybodyAgain.
(28:27):
This has been another episodeof the Nonprofit Hub podcast
with our guest, Rebecca Prejean,who's the CEO and founder of EB
Graphics and Consulting.
My name is Megan Spear.
We'll see you next time.
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