January 17, 2025 • 29 mins
Unlock the secrets to thriving partnerships in the nonprofit sector with Bart Lillie, Vice President of Partner Engagement at Synergy. Discover the journey that led Bart from nonprofit roles to the tech world and back to his true calling in partner engagement. Bart contrasts meaningful relationships with impersonal tactics like cold emails and LinkedIn spams, and he shares strategies for evaluating potential partners based on mutual resources and goals. Dive into the dynamics of sustainable nonprofit partnerships with Bart's expert advice on rallying around a shared mission and the art of reciprocation. This episode is a must-listen for anyone looking to overcome scarcity mindsets and leverage community partnerships effectively, ensuring visibility and authenticity in today’s competitive landscape!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back to the Nonprofit Hub podcast.
I'm your host, Megan Spear, andjoining me today is Bart Lilly,
who's the Vice President ofPartner Engagement at Synergy.
If you were at CauseCamp, youmay have heard Bart on the main
stage talking about takingyourself to camp, but we're
going to switch gears a littlebit today and talk about really
that partnership element of thebusiness.
Bart, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Thank you, megan, it's great to be here business,
bart.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Welcome to the show.
Thank you, megan, it's great tobe here.
Okay, so, as you had pointedout in our little chat
beforehand, my favorite questionto start with is tell us a
little bit about your journey.
How did you end?
Up in the nonprofit space, andhow did it lead you to the role
that you're in right now?
Speaker 2 (00:39):
That's a great story.
When I got out of college Iknew I wanted to be involved
with a nonprofit and so I jumpedin right into nonprofit leading
teams, being part of studentsand doing stuff with people and
involved fundraising and allkinds of things.
I did that for a decade.
Then decided to take a shiftand jump into kind of the tech
(01:02):
world and so I got a job atEpsilon used to be Abacus and
it's a data job.
So if you're in the fundraisingworld you might know of Abacus
and Epsilon Did that for fiveyears, got invited to join a
friend at Cisco and did that forfive years and that took me
even deeper into like tech andengaging with analytics and
(01:27):
reporting and storytelling withdata.
All of it was really good.
But I think in both of thoseroles I got burned out.
In fact I did get burned out.
It was I probably stayed abouttwo years too long in both jobs
and then they decided to say wethink you need to do something
different and that led me toWeiland, again back in the co-op
(01:48):
space, where I got to beinvolved again with data and
then with storytelling, but itwas also in the nonprofit space,
so it took me back to my rootsof being a nonprofit right out
of college and so that gave methis sense of like.
There's a mission involved withthis data, with this
(02:09):
storytelling, with thetechnology and all that and that
was super empowering.
I was super excited about that.
I did that for about five yearsand RKD group invited me to
join their team and that took meto a new level for me because
that took me to the peopleengagement socially and really
(02:30):
telling the story of how anagency can help a nonprofit and,
most recently, with Synergysame idea how can we help a
nonprofit tell their story?
And so I love that engagementof the people side of things.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
That's awesome.
I love that and that's the gistof our conversation today,
because partner engagement isright in the middle of your
title.
But I feel like sometimespartnerships can be a scary word
for folks in the nonprofitspace.
Right, Because I think so oftenwe've built this model of
scarcity where we're fightingfor donors, we're fighting for
(03:08):
grants, we're fighting for, youknow, volunteers and dollars and
all of the things, and so theidea of partnering with anybody
can get a little nerve-wrackingwhen we realize that ultimately,
we could do so much moretogether.
That's a really freeing conceptfor everybody.
So let's break down the idea ofpartnerships.
(03:30):
I know you have a wholeobviously this is your job, so
I'll let you be the subjectmatter expert on partnerships
but what are some things thatmaybe nonprofits need to
consider when they areevaluating partners?
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Well, that's a great, great question.
I here's how I'm going to startthis.
I love the idea, when it comesto being in partnership with
someone, that you start with arelationship.
That is, from a from my side,for example, like I want to
(04:08):
build a relationship withsomeone before I get into the
fact of like, okay, now let'spartner and do something, it it.
It doesn't work for me to putthe cart before the horse, so to
speak, and say let's do thistogether or let's do that
together.
The first and the playing fieldshould be a level of like let's
get to know each other and findout who you are.
I think that's important for mewhen I'm on the road or when
(04:30):
I'm engaging with people incalls or one-on-one things.
That is like who are you andwhat's been happening in your
life?
Because if we have arelationship with someone that
builds trust and that trusthelps us to have a partnership
that actually will go somewhere.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
First of all, kudos, Because I love that as an
approach so much more than I'mgoing to cold email you out of
the blue 17 times and try to getyou to work with me, or I'm
going to spam, LinkedIn messageyou when you have no idea who I
am and try and get you to like,and we all get them right.
We all know that that approach.
(05:11):
But I love the relational ideaso much more.
It's so important.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
And I'll admit that I'm not great at it.
I think I'm good at it, I'mjust not great.
I'm like there are probablypeople be like, yeah, bart sends
too many emails or he'swhatever.
That might be the case, but itis legit.
I'm learning from my own story,my own experiences, and I
really think that's where westart.
I think once you have therelationship established, then
(05:41):
you can move past into what areyour resources, and then you can
have that conversation of likeoh, this is what we bring to the
table, what do you bring to thetable, what do you need?
And then that resource questionis where you can really start
talking about.
This is what we have to offerto each other.
And that's like my two, becausebefore you can solve each of
(06:06):
those problems and whatnot,you've got to have that
relationship of trust and thenyou can say this is where we're
really good and what ourresources and what we have to
offer.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
So so unpack that for me a little bit, because I
think that a lot of times, asnonprofit leaders, I'll put
myself in that category, runninga nonprofit myself, we tend to
look at people who provideservices like yours, so like an
agency, or even some of our techstack, and the providers that
provide those things we takefrom you.
(06:36):
Right, we are using yourservices, and so when we talk
about partnerships though,you're seeming to talk about it
more as a two-way street sowhat's the benefit to the
vendors, if you will, or theagencies and the providers in
that partnership?
What does that look like,outside of the fact that we're
paying you for that service?
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Yeah well, let me back up and say that my role as
partner engagement is with bothmaybe a nonprofit and another
and another vendor, so there's aI'm having conversations with
the synergy um, yes, thank you.
um, I'm having conversations, um, with a variety of people and,
uh, that involves, like, whenI'm talking with my friends at
(07:19):
actual non-profits, there is ayes, there is a client kind of
relationship, but it is arelationship that we're like,
we're getting the value of, likeactually supporting and seeing
the mission happen.
We just had, um, an all team,all hands meeting last, last
month, where we celebrated whathappened with synergy around the
(07:41):
globally, with our company, andthe 40 million text messages
that we delivered for nonprofitsand the millions in dollars of
mid-level donations that werethat were given through our
concierge team, our agents onbehalf of nonprofits, or the
inbound success that our teamsaw.
So our excitement is built whenwe hear how what we're doing
(08:05):
makes a difference for and wewant to call them our partners
too, because we only win whenwe're winning with a nonprofit.
So on that side of the case, itis a.
It still feels like a two-waystreet, but if I'm talking to,
if I'm talking to any one of ourtech partners and other vendors
(08:26):
and other agencies, othergroups that are doing the same
kind of service, work for anonprofit, there's a partnership
that involves a mutualrelationship and a give and a
take and a working together andhow can we?
Here's where we bring the table,here's where we bring the table
.
That works great.
And so I'm excited about allthe conversations I have coming
(08:47):
up in the next few months Someare already planned and already
on the calendar for liketomorrow of really helping us
work together and do good work.
Because, going back to my story, I got involved in tech early
in my career but I needed thatmission.
I needed that I'm making adifference, I'm bringing value
(09:09):
to the world.
To really get me fired up.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
So yeah, that's awesome.
Okay, so we have therelationship.
Yep, we understand theresources.
Is there a third R coming upthe list?
Speaker 2 (09:21):
There are two more actually.
Um.
So once, once you've got therelationship and you've, uh,
talked about resources, then yourally.
Okay, rally is where you, whereyou actually show up and say
we're in it together and there'sa sense of that's when the
partnership begins.
It's like we're on the sameteam, we're running the same
(09:43):
race.
Not meaning to use the R'sagain, but that's what it is.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
I like the alliteration.
I'm here for it.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Thanks, you're good.
That's remarkable, and so it'sone of those things where you
rally, you come together and yousay we're in this as on the
same team, and that's reallywhere the energy begins and the
partnership really begins.
And I'll just go to the last.
One, too, is where youreciprocate, and that's where
you become.
You become like co fansfans andit's like you begin telling the
(10:15):
story of the other person aswell.
It could become you couldco-present something, you could
be doing a podcast together.
That's where you're jumping onsomeone else's bandwagon and
saying this is you should follow, you should know, you should
support, you should donate to.
That's where that reciprocationreally lands.
So that's what partnershipmeans to me.
(10:37):
It's all those things, but itdefinitely does follow a
progression to some degree thatstarts with the relationship and
then eventually gets the ideaof we're rallied together and
then we're reciprocating foreach other.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
So, in the theme of ours, I'm going to phrase the
question this way let's talk redflags.
Okay or they're evaluating anagency or a service provider.
(11:17):
What are some red flags thatyou have seen in partnerships
that you would say, hey, asyou're evaluating any sort of
relationship, as you'rebeginning that partnership?
Here are some things I wouldstay away from.
Let me be clear.
It's very things, not specificcompanies or people.
We're not here for the callouts.
We're not going to call outlike, hey, stay away from this
(11:38):
guy.
But are there things for me?
I'll tell you.
For me, as I am evaluatingpartners, the biggest red flag I
look for, or the thing thatlike puts up a I don't think
this is going to be a good fitfor us, is somebody who is
entirely driven like has that,like used car salesman approach,
(12:02):
where all it feels, like is youwant to sell me something?
Yeah, and so, which goes back toyour relationship.
But there's like that to me isa big like.
I don't feel like you get whowe are or what we do.
All you're worried about isyour commission check right.
It has that vibe, so that to meis a big red flag.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
That's for sure, and I think that's an easy one.
Like all of us would probablyagree with that, and I see that
as a very transactional kind ofrelationship and that is more of
a what's in it for me asopposed to what's in it for you,
or maybe even what's in it forus approach and that if we're
(12:43):
asking questions, we're going tofigure that out.
Yeah, I feel like that happens.
I had a opportunity this pastyear when I was in conversation.
It didn't, I didn't feel likethe relationship would be one
that I could trust and it ended.
But yet there are otherrelationships where I'm reaching
(13:04):
out and I'm really saying, hey,let's, can we just stay
connected?
And I think LinkedIn isprobably how we met initially
and it's a great place to be inthe marketplace, the town square
, so to speak, and tell stories,have engagement kind of
dialogue, discuss all thesethings.
(13:24):
But it's also a place and I'velearned a lot from some good
people to not use that as thefront foot of selling either.
Use that as the front foot ofselling either.
One of my one of the guys Ifollow in the marketing side of
things has said that 80, 90% ofbusinesses today are already
(13:44):
have already decided that whenit comes to joining or choosing
a vendor, choosing someone thatthey want to go with, they've
already made that decisionbefore they reach out.
They're super far.
So what does that do for thequote unquote sales process?
It really takes it and itbecomes more of a closing
(14:07):
conversation, like you'vereached out to me Thank you,
megan, for calling on Synergy,happy to help and you're like
yeah, I know all about you,we're excited.
Just confirm that this is thatyou are what I think you to be
and it becomes a fairly quickconversation.
Gone are the days of successfulcold calling, and especially in
(14:30):
the nonprofit industry.
Can you, can we be very frankabout that?
Like, like again, it's soimportant to have relationships
in this industry and so thisidea of then sales and marketing
, then from this perspective, wehave to be visible from a
(14:50):
here's what we do, here's who weare, so that others can see us,
and that eliminates our needfor a hard pursuit or a hard
that kind of cold calling orthat transactional approach.
If we're visible, if we're outin the space and building
relationships, that's a big win.
(15:12):
One of my favorite things thathappened over the past year was
showing up at conferences andmeeting people face to face for
the first time yeah, the peopleI didn't really even know hadn't
met that became like let's highfive side, can't believe.
(15:32):
I'm meeting you for now, forreal, for the first, like that's
a value of.
There's that LinkedIn that can,that social, that being present
in the space can really build arelationship, and so that's
what I want to say about that.
You asked about other red flags.
Gosh, I think the transactionalone is such a big one that it
(15:54):
gets in the way of other things.
It's true that, like in theprocess, if you're a vendor and
you're telling your story andyou've got your case studies out
there, that a nonprofit can,they can do their research and
they can know 70, 80% Like, yeah, this is.
I think Synergy would be great,or I think Agency X would be
great, or this CRM would beperfect for us, I think.
(16:19):
Then you go into thatconversation and you be curious,
you ask questions, and ifthere's not a curiosity on both
sides, then the relationshipbecomes one-sided.
My wife is great about this andit drives me crazy, but it's
also really good for me.
She will be having aconversation.
She'll ask me about what I saidor what I did, or what happened
(16:42):
with this person in the story,and she'll say so did you talk
about yourself the whole time?
And I'm like no but.
But it's a great.
It's a great reminder and it'sa great illustration of how do
(17:02):
we engage in in relationshipswith people.
Are we coming at it with theother person?
And that's a curiosity thing asopposed to a convincing thing.
So to be curious is askquestions, to be convinced is to
use statements, and I thinkthat becomes a red flag if
you're in a relationship thatfeels like that.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Yeah, I don't mean to keep tossing R's out there, but
this one came to my mind andthat is the the like, referrals
and references to double R.
Look at me, I cannot tell youhow many folks have reached out
wanting to and they've built therelationship.
They're not.
I'm engaging with them becausethey're not taking that salesy,
(17:40):
transactional approach, but theydon't.
It is a red flag to me If youdon't want me to talk to anyone
who uses your service, right, ifyou don't maybe have those
testimonials on your website orthere's not somebody I can call
to say, hey, how was yourexperience with this?
That to me rings red flag andhaving kind of the I don't know
(18:03):
like the gatekeeping experiencementality of like, no, we don't
want to let anyone know who wework with.
And I understand not wantingyour competitors to have your
client list or whatever, butthat's a big red flag to me If
you don't have somebody that Ican talk to as a reference.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Yeah, it's a good point.
You should always talk aboutyour relationships, but that's
the reciprocation piece, thelast step of like you rallied
together, you made things happen.
The reciprocation is being ableto talk about it with other
people and it's like it's.
It's definitely where it'sreferrals and, like you said,
and references that actuallycomes into play in this point,
(18:43):
because you've got a partnerthat you're excited about and
you want to be able to tell thatstory.
And if so, yeah, if you're notfinding those kind of things and
that makes me nervous then itdoes.
It makes me nervous and itbecomes it.
I would say a wider stretch too.
There's a like everyone can.
I won't say this, this is alittle bit of a generalization,
(19:05):
but everybody can win one or twoopportunities or make one.
They strike lightning strikesonce or twice, but can you
consistently do it with a numberof situations and in a number
of relationships?
That's when you can build thetrust of like oh yeah, this.
These guys say they can do Xand they can back it up and
(19:27):
they've got a wide spectrum ofpeople that have made it work.
So yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
I think, too, that's one area where nonprofits can
partner with each other.
If you're evaluating systems orevaluating, hey, we're looking
for a new marketing agency ornew whatever.
There are probably a hundredother nonprofits in your city,
Right, Reach out to them.
And I think again back to thatscarcity mindset.
(19:55):
Sometimes we're so like, oh, Idon't want to ask them what
they're doing because we'recompeting for dollars or donors
or whatever.
But when we can work togetherto get the best out of each
other, I think that becomes ahuge partnership opportunity for
nonprofits as well.
To reach out and say, hey, whodo you use for this particular
thing?
Or what CRM are you on, orwhatever platform you're looking
(20:16):
to fulfill.
I think those kind of referralsalso can go a really long way.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Yeah, they totally can.
And to touch on the scarcitypiece, I can come at it from
three angles.
One is my own story, one is thenonprofit that I volunteer with
Restoration Project, and thenfrom the co-op perspective, when
I was at Abacus and Weiland.
That is a, if you understandthe co-op model, it is a shared
(20:43):
database and in that database werealized wow.
We realized wow, john Smith hasmade a donation to 20 different
nonprofits, five in the samesector.
So there isn't a sense of likewe're going to our donor is just
our donor.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
We're making donations to a lot of places and
the nonprofit that I volunteerwith, like, I help them in their
fundraising in different ways,and they've got donors who are
making gifts to otherorganizations.
I talk with them, they're myfriends in some cases and I can
look at my own story.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Like I'm making donations to a number of
organizations and not just one,and so, yeah, the episode that
aired right before yours, solast week, josie Garfield, who
was also at CauseCamp, wastalking about how sometimes we
forget to treat donors Like weforget that they're humans and
that they behave like we do.
But to your point, I give tofour different organizations,
(21:48):
yeah, so why would I assume thenthat somebody else is only
giving to mine?
We just yeah, so that's alwaysa good call out.
So, bart, we've referencedSynergy a couple of different
times in your obviously yourtitle, but also your journey.
Tell us a little bit aboutSynergy itself and the work that
you guys do in the nonprofitspace.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Yeah, for sure, Thank you.
So we are an engagement companyand we want to help nonprofits
engage with their donors better.
We do that in a few differentmotions.
There's an outbound and motionand it involves text messages.
It involves ringless voicemailand some other donor calls.
(22:29):
It's where the nonprofit isreaching out to their donors.
We also do inbound.
So if there's a, if yournonprofit has an 800 phone
number where, like there's a,them reaching to you as a
nonprofit, that will go througha call center and Synergy can
(22:49):
manage that process for thenonprofit and give some really
great perspective and eliminatesome of the black box that comes
with that process.
And then the last one is amid-level engagement.
It's this idea of someorganizations they don't have a
mid-level person on their teamand Synergy has a fractional
(23:11):
solution for that where we workwith the nonprofit to hire
someone on their behalf.
All of these engage donorsprimarily through.
Where's my phone here?
It is this, yes, the phone.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
The one that we all have right in our hands.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
We all have it.
We all have it and there'sother ways that like might lend
itself in the way we use othertechnologies.
But the phone is primary and inmy opinion I could take you
down to my mailbox down thestreet.
It's so far away Like I have to.
I don't drive to it, but I'mwalking my dog past it and I
(23:46):
open it like once every threeweeks, maybe two weeks, if my
mom says I mailed you a letteror something like that.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Full of stuff.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
I'm not kidding you when I tell you so I live in an
apartment building here inPittsburgh and so there's
obviously we have like the wallof mailboxes inside the doorway
and the nice people at ourlittle front desk concierge had
to call me maybe two weeks ago,right before year end.
To call me maybe two weeks agoright before year end and be
like, hey, the the postman wouldlike to you to clear out your
(24:15):
mailbox Cause he can't put anymore things in it.
I was like, oh yeah, it'sprobably been a month.
I definitely should do that.
I do not pay attention to thatmailbox and I walk by it every
day and I still don't bother togo over and look at it.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Yeah, it's not, it has value.
I open mail, I do look at it so, and everyone is different, so
that that's.
Yeah, let's just go with thattoo, but for me that's not
important.
If I go to my inbox a couple ofdifferent email inboxes how
many emails do we all havenowadays?
The one that I actually giveout has about 50,000 unread
messages, and it's just anatomic bomb waiting to happen.
(24:54):
I'll just nuke it all and I'llstart fresh, probably sometime
this year.
But if you look at my phone,there are no unread text
messages.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Same.
I hate the little red bubble.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
I look at them and clear them all the time.
There are no unread voicemails.
These are the mediums, in asense, that I pay attention to.
Yeah, and if you want to engagewith me, that's one of the best
.
Send me a text.
It is the best way to engagewith me, and so the nonprofit
(25:28):
that's going to send me a textis going to be at the front of
the line to get my engagement,and that's what Synergy does.
We want to help a nonprofitengage with their donors in ways
that are meaningful and, from atext message perspective, we
can partner with your mail houseor your email provider and we
(25:49):
can coordinate that process, soyou're getting a text message in
addition to the email, inaddition to the direct mail
piece.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
And we've seen a great lift in response.
That's awesome Because of that.
So those are just a couple ofthe ways that Synergy does some
great work for nonprofits.
I'm super excited to be alignedwith these guys and I love what
we do and I'm happy to havethat conversation with anyone
who's interested.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
And if someone is interested, how do they find you
?
What's the best way to connect?
Outside of giving out your cellphone number, Cause we don't
need.
We don't want to like publishyour cell phone number to the
podcast.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Text me at LinkedIn is a great.
It's a great place to to startand, again, that is a place
where I hope to build arelationship with people, and
let's just leave it at that.
So I will say that, bart Lilly,my name B-A-R-T.
Is just Bart, and there's veryfew Barts out there in the world
, and so when it comes todigital real estate, like I like
(26:48):
struck gold, because I, I canget my name at whatever I want.
Yes, whatever it is, it's justBart Gold.
So find me on LinkedIn andhappy to connect.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
That's awesome, bart, thank you so much for this
conversation.
Really appreciate all of theR's that you had to share when
it comes to partnerships, and wewill definitely have a link to
Bart's LinkedIn as well in theshow notes so everyone can go
connect with him.
Bart, thanks for being here.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
I'm grateful to have had a chance.
Thanks, Megan.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
This has been another episode in the Nonprofit Hub
podcast.
I'm your host, Megan Spear, andwe'll see you next time.
Welcome back to the Nonprofit Hub podcast.
I'm your host, Megan Spear, andjoining me today is Bart Lilly,
who's the Vice President ofPartner Engagement at Synergy.
If you were at CauseCamp, youmay have heard Bart on the main
stage talking about takingyourself to camp, but we're
going to switch gears a littlebit today and talk about really
that partnership element of thebusiness.
Bart, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Thank you, megan, it's great to be here business,
bart.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Welcome to the show.
Thank you, megan, it's great tobe here.
Okay, so, as you had pointedout in our little chat
beforehand, my favorite questionto start with is tell us a
little bit about your journey.
How did you end?
Up in the nonprofit space, andhow did it lead you to the role
that you're in right now?
Speaker 2 (00:39):
That's a great story.
When I got out of college Iknew I wanted to be involved
with a nonprofit and so I jumpedin right into nonprofit leading
teams, being part of studentsand doing stuff with people and
involved fundraising and allkinds of things.
I did that for a decade.
Then decided to take a shiftand jump into kind of the tech
(01:02):
world and so I got a job atEpsilon used to be Abacus and
it's a data job.
So if you're in the fundraisingworld you might know of Abacus
and Epsilon Did that for fiveyears, got invited to join a
friend at Cisco and did that forfive years and that took me
even deeper into like tech andengaging with analytics and
(01:27):
reporting and storytelling withdata.
All of it was really good.
But I think in both of thoseroles I got burned out.
In fact I did get burned out.
It was I probably stayed abouttwo years too long in both jobs
and then they decided to say wethink you need to do something
different and that led me toWeiland, again back in the co-op
(01:48):
space, where I got to beinvolved again with data and
then with storytelling, but itwas also in the nonprofit space,
so it took me back to my rootsof being a nonprofit right out
of college and so that gave methis sense of like.
There's a mission involved withthis data, with this
(02:09):
storytelling, with thetechnology and all that and that
was super empowering.
I was super excited about that.
I did that for about five yearsand RKD group invited me to
join their team and that took meto a new level for me because
that took me to the peopleengagement socially and really
(02:30):
telling the story of how anagency can help a nonprofit and,
most recently, with Synergysame idea how can we help a
nonprofit tell their story?
And so I love that engagementof the people side of things.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
That's awesome.
I love that and that's the gistof our conversation today,
because partner engagement isright in the middle of your
title.
But I feel like sometimespartnerships can be a scary word
for folks in the nonprofitspace.
Right, Because I think so oftenwe've built this model of
scarcity where we're fightingfor donors, we're fighting for
(03:08):
grants, we're fighting for, youknow, volunteers and dollars and
all of the things, and so theidea of partnering with anybody
can get a little nerve-wrackingwhen we realize that ultimately,
we could do so much moretogether.
That's a really freeing conceptfor everybody.
So let's break down the idea ofpartnerships.
(03:30):
I know you have a wholeobviously this is your job, so
I'll let you be the subjectmatter expert on partnerships
but what are some things thatmaybe nonprofits need to
consider when they areevaluating partners?
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Well, that's a great, great question.
I here's how I'm going to startthis.
I love the idea, when it comesto being in partnership with
someone, that you start with arelationship.
That is, from a from my side,for example, like I want to
(04:08):
build a relationship withsomeone before I get into the
fact of like, okay, now let'spartner and do something, it it.
It doesn't work for me to putthe cart before the horse, so to
speak, and say let's do thistogether or let's do that
together.
The first and the playing fieldshould be a level of like let's
get to know each other and findout who you are.
I think that's important for mewhen I'm on the road or when
(04:30):
I'm engaging with people incalls or one-on-one things.
That is like who are you andwhat's been happening in your
life?
Because if we have arelationship with someone that
builds trust and that trusthelps us to have a partnership
that actually will go somewhere.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
First of all, kudos, Because I love that as an
approach so much more than I'mgoing to cold email you out of
the blue 17 times and try to getyou to work with me, or I'm
going to spam, LinkedIn messageyou when you have no idea who I
am and try and get you to like,and we all get them right.
We all know that that approach.
(05:11):
But I love the relational ideaso much more.
It's so important.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
And I'll admit that I'm not great at it.
I think I'm good at it, I'mjust not great.
I'm like there are probablypeople be like, yeah, bart sends
too many emails or he'swhatever.
That might be the case, but itis legit.
I'm learning from my own story,my own experiences, and I
really think that's where westart.
I think once you have therelationship established, then
(05:41):
you can move past into what areyour resources, and then you can
have that conversation of likeoh, this is what we bring to the
table, what do you bring to thetable, what do you need?
And then that resource questionis where you can really start
talking about.
This is what we have to offerto each other.
And that's like my two, becausebefore you can solve each of
(06:06):
those problems and whatnot,you've got to have that
relationship of trust and thenyou can say this is where we're
really good and what ourresources and what we have to
offer.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
So so unpack that for me a little bit, because I
think that a lot of times, asnonprofit leaders, I'll put
myself in that category, runninga nonprofit myself, we tend to
look at people who provideservices like yours, so like an
agency, or even some of our techstack, and the providers that
provide those things we takefrom you.
(06:36):
Right, we are using yourservices, and so when we talk
about partnerships though,you're seeming to talk about it
more as a two-way street sowhat's the benefit to the
vendors, if you will, or theagencies and the providers in
that partnership?
What does that look like,outside of the fact that we're
paying you for that service?
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Yeah well, let me back up and say that my role as
partner engagement is with bothmaybe a nonprofit and another
and another vendor, so there's aI'm having conversations with
the synergy um, yes, thank you.
um, I'm having conversations, um, with a variety of people and,
uh, that involves, like, whenI'm talking with my friends at
(07:19):
actual non-profits, there is ayes, there is a client kind of
relationship, but it is arelationship that we're like,
we're getting the value of, likeactually supporting and seeing
the mission happen.
We just had, um, an all team,all hands meeting last, last
month, where we celebrated whathappened with synergy around the
(07:41):
globally, with our company, andthe 40 million text messages
that we delivered for nonprofitsand the millions in dollars of
mid-level donations that werethat were given through our
concierge team, our agents onbehalf of nonprofits, or the
inbound success that our teamsaw.
So our excitement is built whenwe hear how what we're doing
(08:05):
makes a difference for and wewant to call them our partners
too, because we only win whenwe're winning with a nonprofit.
So on that side of the case, itis a.
It still feels like a two-waystreet, but if I'm talking to,
if I'm talking to any one of ourtech partners and other vendors
(08:26):
and other agencies, othergroups that are doing the same
kind of service, work for anonprofit, there's a partnership
that involves a mutualrelationship and a give and a
take and a working together andhow can we?
Here's where we bring the table,here's where we bring the table
.
That works great.
And so I'm excited about allthe conversations I have coming
(08:47):
up in the next few months Someare already planned and already
on the calendar for liketomorrow of really helping us
work together and do good work.
Because, going back to my story, I got involved in tech early
in my career but I needed thatmission.
I needed that I'm making adifference, I'm bringing value
(09:09):
to the world.
To really get me fired up.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
So yeah, that's awesome.
Okay, so we have therelationship.
Yep, we understand theresources.
Is there a third R coming upthe list?
Speaker 2 (09:21):
There are two more actually.
Um.
So once, once you've got therelationship and you've, uh,
talked about resources, then yourally.
Okay, rally is where you, whereyou actually show up and say
we're in it together and there'sa sense of that's when the
partnership begins.
It's like we're on the sameteam, we're running the same
(09:43):
race.
Not meaning to use the R'sagain, but that's what it is.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
I like the alliteration.
I'm here for it.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Thanks, you're good.
That's remarkable, and so it'sone of those things where you
rally, you come together and yousay we're in this as on the
same team, and that's reallywhere the energy begins and the
partnership really begins.
And I'll just go to the last.
One, too, is where youreciprocate, and that's where
you become.
You become like co fansfans andit's like you begin telling the
(10:15):
story of the other person aswell.
It could become you couldco-present something, you could
be doing a podcast together.
That's where you're jumping onsomeone else's bandwagon and
saying this is you should follow, you should know, you should
support, you should donate to.
That's where that reciprocationreally lands.
So that's what partnershipmeans to me.
(10:37):
It's all those things, but itdefinitely does follow a
progression to some degree thatstarts with the relationship and
then eventually gets the ideaof we're rallied together and
then we're reciprocating foreach other.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
So, in the theme of ours, I'm going to phrase the
question this way let's talk redflags.
Okay or they're evaluating anagency or a service provider.
(11:17):
What are some red flags thatyou have seen in partnerships
that you would say, hey, asyou're evaluating any sort of
relationship, as you'rebeginning that partnership?
Here are some things I wouldstay away from.
Let me be clear.
It's very things, not specificcompanies or people.
We're not here for the callouts.
We're not going to call outlike, hey, stay away from this
(11:38):
guy.
But are there things for me?
I'll tell you.
For me, as I am evaluatingpartners, the biggest red flag I
look for, or the thing thatlike puts up a I don't think
this is going to be a good fitfor us, is somebody who is
entirely driven like has that,like used car salesman approach,
(12:02):
where all it feels, like is youwant to sell me something?
Yeah, and so, which goes back toyour relationship.
But there's like that to me isa big like.
I don't feel like you get whowe are or what we do.
All you're worried about isyour commission check right.
It has that vibe, so that to meis a big red flag.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
That's for sure, and I think that's an easy one.
Like all of us would probablyagree with that, and I see that
as a very transactional kind ofrelationship and that is more of
a what's in it for me asopposed to what's in it for you,
or maybe even what's in it forus approach and that if we're
(12:43):
asking questions, we're going tofigure that out.
Yeah, I feel like that happens.
I had a opportunity this pastyear when I was in conversation.
It didn't, I didn't feel likethe relationship would be one
that I could trust and it ended.
But yet there are otherrelationships where I'm reaching
(13:04):
out and I'm really saying, hey,let's, can we just stay
connected?
And I think LinkedIn isprobably how we met initially
and it's a great place to be inthe marketplace, the town square
, so to speak, and tell stories,have engagement kind of
dialogue, discuss all thesethings.
(13:24):
But it's also a place and I'velearned a lot from some good
people to not use that as thefront foot of selling either.
Use that as the front foot ofselling either.
One of my one of the guys Ifollow in the marketing side of
things has said that 80, 90% ofbusinesses today are already
(13:44):
have already decided that whenit comes to joining or choosing
a vendor, choosing someone thatthey want to go with, they've
already made that decisionbefore they reach out.
They're super far.
So what does that do for thequote unquote sales process?
It really takes it and itbecomes more of a closing
(14:07):
conversation, like you'vereached out to me Thank you,
megan, for calling on Synergy,happy to help and you're like
yeah, I know all about you,we're excited.
Just confirm that this is thatyou are what I think you to be
and it becomes a fairly quickconversation.
Gone are the days of successfulcold calling, and especially in
(14:30):
the nonprofit industry.
Can you, can we be very frankabout that?
Like, like again, it's soimportant to have relationships
in this industry and so thisidea of then sales and marketing
, then from this perspective, wehave to be visible from a
(14:50):
here's what we do, here's who weare, so that others can see us,
and that eliminates our needfor a hard pursuit or a hard
that kind of cold calling orthat transactional approach.
If we're visible, if we're outin the space and building
relationships, that's a big win.
(15:12):
One of my favorite things thathappened over the past year was
showing up at conferences andmeeting people face to face for
the first time yeah, the peopleI didn't really even know hadn't
met that became like let's highfive side, can't believe.
(15:32):
I'm meeting you for now, forreal, for the first, like that's
a value of.
There's that LinkedIn that can,that social, that being present
in the space can really build arelationship, and so that's
what I want to say about that.
You asked about other red flags.
Gosh, I think the transactionalone is such a big one that it
(15:54):
gets in the way of other things.
It's true that, like in theprocess, if you're a vendor and
you're telling your story andyou've got your case studies out
there, that a nonprofit can,they can do their research and
they can know 70, 80% Like, yeah, this is.
I think Synergy would be great,or I think Agency X would be
great, or this CRM would beperfect for us, I think.
(16:19):
Then you go into thatconversation and you be curious,
you ask questions, and ifthere's not a curiosity on both
sides, then the relationshipbecomes one-sided.
My wife is great about this andit drives me crazy, but it's
also really good for me.
She will be having aconversation.
She'll ask me about what I saidor what I did, or what happened
(16:42):
with this person in the story,and she'll say so did you talk
about yourself the whole time?
And I'm like no but.
But it's a great.
It's a great reminder and it'sa great illustration of how do
(17:02):
we engage in in relationshipswith people.
Are we coming at it with theother person?
And that's a curiosity thing asopposed to a convincing thing.
So to be curious is askquestions, to be convinced is to
use statements, and I thinkthat becomes a red flag if
you're in a relationship thatfeels like that.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Yeah, I don't mean to keep tossing R's out there, but
this one came to my mind andthat is the the like, referrals
and references to double R.
Look at me, I cannot tell youhow many folks have reached out
wanting to and they've built therelationship.
They're not.
I'm engaging with them becausethey're not taking that salesy,
(17:40):
transactional approach, but theydon't.
It is a red flag to me If youdon't want me to talk to anyone
who uses your service, right, ifyou don't maybe have those
testimonials on your website orthere's not somebody I can call
to say, hey, how was yourexperience with this?
That to me rings red flag andhaving kind of the I don't know
(18:03):
like the gatekeeping experiencementality of like, no, we don't
want to let anyone know who wework with.
And I understand not wantingyour competitors to have your
client list or whatever, butthat's a big red flag to me If
you don't have somebody that Ican talk to as a reference.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Yeah, it's a good point.
You should always talk aboutyour relationships, but that's
the reciprocation piece, thelast step of like you rallied
together, you made things happen.
The reciprocation is being ableto talk about it with other
people and it's like it's.
It's definitely where it'sreferrals and, like you said,
and references that actuallycomes into play in this point,
(18:43):
because you've got a partnerthat you're excited about and
you want to be able to tell thatstory.
And if so, yeah, if you're notfinding those kind of things and
that makes me nervous then itdoes.
It makes me nervous and itbecomes it.
I would say a wider stretch too.
There's a like everyone can.
I won't say this, this is alittle bit of a generalization,
(19:05):
but everybody can win one or twoopportunities or make one.
They strike lightning strikesonce or twice, but can you
consistently do it with a numberof situations and in a number
of relationships?
That's when you can build thetrust of like oh yeah, this.
These guys say they can do Xand they can back it up and
(19:27):
they've got a wide spectrum ofpeople that have made it work.
So yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
I think, too, that's one area where nonprofits can
partner with each other.
If you're evaluating systems orevaluating, hey, we're looking
for a new marketing agency ornew whatever.
There are probably a hundredother nonprofits in your city,
Right, Reach out to them.
And I think again back to thatscarcity mindset.
(19:55):
Sometimes we're so like, oh, Idon't want to ask them what
they're doing because we'recompeting for dollars or donors
or whatever.
But when we can work togetherto get the best out of each
other, I think that becomes ahuge partnership opportunity for
nonprofits as well.
To reach out and say, hey, whodo you use for this particular
thing?
Or what CRM are you on, orwhatever platform you're looking
(20:16):
to fulfill.
I think those kind of referralsalso can go a really long way.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Yeah, they totally can.
And to touch on the scarcitypiece, I can come at it from
three angles.
One is my own story, one is thenonprofit that I volunteer with
Restoration Project, and thenfrom the co-op perspective, when
I was at Abacus and Weiland.
That is a, if you understandthe co-op model, it is a shared
(20:43):
database and in that database werealized wow.
We realized wow, john Smith hasmade a donation to 20 different
nonprofits, five in the samesector.
So there isn't a sense of likewe're going to our donor is just
our donor.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
We're making donations to a lot of places and
the nonprofit that I volunteerwith, like, I help them in their
fundraising in different ways,and they've got donors who are
making gifts to otherorganizations.
I talk with them, they're myfriends in some cases and I can
look at my own story.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Like I'm making donations to a number of
organizations and not just one,and so, yeah, the episode that
aired right before yours, solast week, josie Garfield, who
was also at CauseCamp, wastalking about how sometimes we
forget to treat donors Like weforget that they're humans and
that they behave like we do.
But to your point, I give tofour different organizations,
(21:48):
yeah, so why would I assume thenthat somebody else is only
giving to mine?
We just yeah, so that's alwaysa good call out.
So, bart, we've referencedSynergy a couple of different
times in your obviously yourtitle, but also your journey.
Tell us a little bit aboutSynergy itself and the work that
you guys do in the nonprofitspace.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Yeah, for sure, Thank you.
So we are an engagement companyand we want to help nonprofits
engage with their donors better.
We do that in a few differentmotions.
There's an outbound and motionand it involves text messages.
It involves ringless voicemailand some other donor calls.
(22:29):
It's where the nonprofit isreaching out to their donors.
We also do inbound.
So if there's a, if yournonprofit has an 800 phone
number where, like there's a,them reaching to you as a
nonprofit, that will go througha call center and Synergy can
(22:49):
manage that process for thenonprofit and give some really
great perspective and eliminatesome of the black box that comes
with that process.
And then the last one is amid-level engagement.
It's this idea of someorganizations they don't have a
mid-level person on their teamand Synergy has a fractional
(23:11):
solution for that where we workwith the nonprofit to hire
someone on their behalf.
All of these engage donorsprimarily through.
Where's my phone here?
It is this, yes, the phone.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
The one that we all have right in our hands.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
We all have it.
We all have it and there'sother ways that like might lend
itself in the way we use othertechnologies.
But the phone is primary and inmy opinion I could take you
down to my mailbox down thestreet.
It's so far away Like I have to.
I don't drive to it, but I'mwalking my dog past it and I
(23:46):
open it like once every threeweeks, maybe two weeks, if my
mom says I mailed you a letteror something like that.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Full of stuff.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
I'm not kidding you when I tell you so I live in an
apartment building here inPittsburgh and so there's
obviously we have like the wallof mailboxes inside the doorway
and the nice people at ourlittle front desk concierge had
to call me maybe two weeks ago,right before year end.
To call me maybe two weeks agoright before year end and be
like, hey, the the postman wouldlike to you to clear out your
(24:15):
mailbox Cause he can't put anymore things in it.
I was like, oh yeah, it'sprobably been a month.
I definitely should do that.
I do not pay attention to thatmailbox and I walk by it every
day and I still don't bother togo over and look at it.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Yeah, it's not, it has value.
I open mail, I do look at it so, and everyone is different, so
that that's.
Yeah, let's just go with thattoo, but for me that's not
important.
If I go to my inbox a couple ofdifferent email inboxes how
many emails do we all havenowadays?
The one that I actually giveout has about 50,000 unread
messages, and it's just anatomic bomb waiting to happen.
(24:54):
I'll just nuke it all and I'llstart fresh, probably sometime
this year.
But if you look at my phone,there are no unread text
messages.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Same.
I hate the little red bubble.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
I look at them and clear them all the time.
There are no unread voicemails.
These are the mediums, in asense, that I pay attention to.
Yeah, and if you want to engagewith me, that's one of the best
.
Send me a text.
It is the best way to engagewith me, and so the nonprofit
(25:28):
that's going to send me a textis going to be at the front of
the line to get my engagement,and that's what Synergy does.
We want to help a nonprofitengage with their donors in ways
that are meaningful and, from atext message perspective, we
can partner with your mail houseor your email provider and we
(25:49):
can coordinate that process, soyou're getting a text message in
addition to the email, inaddition to the direct mail
piece.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
And we've seen a great lift in response.
That's awesome Because of that.
So those are just a couple ofthe ways that Synergy does some
great work for nonprofits.
I'm super excited to be alignedwith these guys and I love what
we do and I'm happy to havethat conversation with anyone
who's interested.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
And if someone is interested, how do they find you
?
What's the best way to connect?
Outside of giving out your cellphone number, Cause we don't
need.
We don't want to like publishyour cell phone number to the
podcast.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Text me at LinkedIn is a great.
It's a great place to to startand, again, that is a place
where I hope to build arelationship with people, and
let's just leave it at that.
So I will say that, bart Lilly,my name B-A-R-T.
Is just Bart, and there's veryfew Barts out there in the world
, and so when it comes todigital real estate, like I like
(26:48):
struck gold, because I, I canget my name at whatever I want.
Yes, whatever it is, it's justBart Gold.
So find me on LinkedIn andhappy to connect.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
That's awesome, bart, thank you so much for this
conversation.
Really appreciate all of theR's that you had to share when
it comes to partnerships, and wewill definitely have a link to
Bart's LinkedIn as well in theshow notes so everyone can go
connect with him.
Bart, thanks for being here.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
I'm grateful to have had a chance.
Thanks, Megan.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
This has been another episode in the Nonprofit Hub
podcast.
I'm your host, Megan Spear, andwe'll see you next time.
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