Elevating Nonprofit Communication: Strategic Storytelling and Audience Engagement for Maximum Impact
February 14, 2025 • 26 mins
Can strategic communication truly elevate a nonprofit's mission, or are there obstacles it simply can't overcome? Joins us to unravel the complexities of communication in the nonprofit sector with Olga Woltman, founder of Lemon Skies. From the necessity of aligning messaging with organizational goals to the challenge of engaging donors without a clear mission, we navigate the nuances of effective communication strategies. Together, we examine the essential components of a holistic communication plan and emphasize the importance of understanding audience needs to tailor messages for maximum impact. In our exploration of communication channels, social media platforms like TikTok come under scrutiny. Beyond the hype and economic influence, is TikTok truly valuable for nonprofit communication? We discuss the merits of owning your audience through reliable means like email and the difficulties of transitioning between platforms.
Get free nonprofit professional development resources, connections to cause work peers, and more at https://nonprofithub.org
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (00:36):
Welcome back to the Nonprofit Hub podcast.
I'm your host, megan Spear, andjoining me today is Olga
Woltman, who's the founder ofLemon Skies.
I am excited to chat with herin person because we've been
LinkedIn connected for a while,but now we get to actually have
a real life conversation.
So, olga, welcome to thepodcast.
Thanks for having me.
Megan Appreciate it.
So tell the audience a littlebit about yourself as kind of an
(00:59):
introduction, and your journeyin nonprofit work, before we
really dig into the topic todayaround strategic communication.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Yeah.
So I was actually reflecting onhow I got into nonprofit sector
and I think fundamentally Ijust believe in service and I
believe in our ability to changethings.
We see and we need to bechanged.
I've really spent my entireprofessional career in nonprofit
sector and various roles atagencies, within nonprofits,
(01:26):
in-house, primarily focusing onfundraising, a lot of digital
work and, of course,communications and marketing
messaging.
Those types of things reallykind of give me joy, if you will
.
And then in my spare time Ivolunteer and I sit on the
boards of a couple differentnonprofits, both in our sector
DMAW, special Olympics, virginia.
(01:48):
So just really try to, you know, walk the walk, as they say.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
I love that.
So the conversation at handtoday is around strategic
communication both what it isand what it is not, and digging
really into what it looks liketo have a good strategic
communication, like holisticcommunication plan, and why
that's so important.
But this whole conversationcame out because you had one of
(02:15):
the best LinkedIn posts I'veseen in quite some time and I it
caught my attention one becauseit was Cinderella and I was
very into it.
But it was talking about whatcommunication can do and what
messaging can do versus what itcan't.
And I want to start withthere's so many good points in
(02:35):
this post.
Go connect with Olga onLinkedIn and find it for
yourself, because it's justfascinating.
But one of the things that yousay is that communications
cannot turn little mice intoadditional staff to double your
output.
The opening one iscommunications isn't going to
turn pumpkins intoinfrastructure to prop up
operations.
(02:55):
I mean preach Fantastic points.
So talk to me a little bitabout what inspired this post.
Where did it come from?
And then let's really dig intosome of the what comms can do
once they're good.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Yeah, I mean, I think in various steps of my
professional journey,communication sometimes is
looked at as almost like thefairy godmother, if you will, to
stick with our analogy.
And you know it is very truethat strategic, brilliant
communications can really do alot to present your mission in a
way that resonates with donors,give clarity, raise awareness,
(03:30):
help advocate for the cause.
So there's a lot of things thatcommunications can do, but
there's definitely a set ofthings where you know you can
have the most brilliantcommunicator but it's really not
a communications problem if youwill.
So, for example, if you don'thave infrastructure to support
your operations, I can develop abrilliant communication
(03:52):
strategy, but if you don't havesegmentation functionality to
actually target the rightaudiences, or if your data is
messy and flawed, no amount ofcommunication strategy can save
you from that.
And similarly, you know you canbe brilliant, but
communications cannotovercompensate for a lack of
(04:12):
resources.
So it's sort of it's not amiracle worker.
It can do a lot of things and Iknow sometimes it seems like we
produce magic, but there'sdefinitely a limit.
You know you can't communicateyour way out of not having the
right resources or mission.
That's not clear in its purpose.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
So there's some foundational pieces that need to
be in place beforecommunications comes in there
has to be a clear mission and aclear purpose, because I do
think, man, that tends to be ahang up for a lot of
organizations we're notcommunicating effectively
(04:51):
because we don't know what thegoal is right.
We don't understand what we'rehere for.
So when you're working withsomebody, if that is the problem
, right, how?
What are the steps?
I'm curious about this wholeprocess, for from how do we make
sure that the communication iscorrect all the way through?
What are the pieces that shouldbe included in a holistic,
(05:15):
strategic communication plan?
Because I think a lot of timesit's like just send an email,
it's fine, or that has nothingto do with what we're saying on
social media.
All of the pieces don't tend tomatch.
So I'm curious from yourperspective, to like what those
pieces are and how we start thatprocess to make sure that our
communication is effective.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
Yeah.
So when I work with colleagues,peers, clients, organizations,
it's really about asking a lotof questions and really really
listening.
So not asking and intending torespond, but really kind of
teasing out those insights,Because usually, whether it's
the founder, whether it's amission person, the answers are
there.
You just have to really reallypay attention.
(05:58):
But to your question aboutstrategic communications, it's
really it's all aboutunderstanding the purpose who
are we talking to and what arewe trying to get them to?
Which kind of point we'retrying to advance them to?
If you don't know answers tothose questions, that's really
kind of about strategic thinking, about where organization is
(06:18):
going or where a particularprogram is going, because
communications has to have apurpose.
It's not just, it's not justabout outputting something, just
to put something out.
It's taking your audience andbringing them along.
Whether it's a particularaction, whether it's increased
awareness of different,different efforts your
organization does.
It could be multiple, multiplepurposes, but if you don't have
(06:40):
purpose, you you've really kindof don't have that what I'm
describing as foundational piecein place, like, yeah, we don't
just put out messages just to,we don't talk for the sake of
talking.
It needs to, it needs to have areason to exist.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
I man, and so I come from a social media background,
right, and so often I see postsfrom organizations which is like
you clearly didn't haveanything to say, Right, but
somebody told them that theyneeded to be on Facebook every
day and so out this withsomething, yes, with whatever,
(07:16):
and I just sit there and I thinkwhat did you really like?
This isn't helpful.
No this isn't helpful.
Consist't helpful.
Consistency is good, yes, butif you don't actually have
anything to say, just maybe justtake a step back and then I
think but how do we startknowing what to say, right and
how?
And start, because I do thinkthere's that gets lost a lot of
(07:39):
times of what we want to becommunicating.
So when we talk about thingslike social media or email, so
often non-profits have so manydiverse audiences that they're
trying to talk to of what wewant to be communicating.
So when we talk about thingslike social media or email, so
often nonprofits have so manydiverse audiences that they're
trying to talk to.
So, yes, you have the donordevelopment team that wants you
to do nothing but ask like,please.
Here's another donate link.
Donate link.
Donate link.
You might have folks who aretrying to recruit volunteers.
(08:01):
You might have an event comingup, but you also have
constituents that you're servingthat are following your page as
well.
Talk to me a little bit aboutthe balance of all of the types
of messaging that a nonprofithas and how we can, kind of like
strategically think throughmaintaining that balance so that
you're talking to everybody andnobody gets ignored.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Right.
Well, you ask really excellentand very thought provoking
questions, so thank you for that.
I think it starts with auditingwhere your people are, because
not everybody exists in everychannel and you know, frankly,
it's not just about what andwhere you say, but it's also
where do you need to just kindof back off and you know if your
(08:44):
audience is not on Instagramand you're not a cause that's
visually appealing, because somearen't, maybe, you know, maybe
that's really a wasted effort.
So you know, I just don'tbelieve in doing anything for
the sake of doing it.
So it's really kind ofunderstanding where your
different audiences reside andengage with you.
And then to your point aboutdifferent audiences and
different purposes and engagewith you.
(09:05):
And then to your point aboutdifferent audiences and
different purposes it's abalance and that balance is
achieved in bringing yourdifferent stakeholders in and
really kind of having thatdialogue to understand, because
you know there's certain timesof year where development is
going to be a priority and youknow we all know end of December
, development kind of takes thefront seat.
It's understanding where someof your program people are
(09:25):
coming in from.
There's also this funny tensionbetween development and
marketing, where marketing isall about spotlighting victories
and positive things and all thethings are going great and
development knows very well thatno one writes you a check to
congratulate you.
You need to articulate the need, you need to articulate what's
not being done.
(09:45):
So it's just really kind ofhaving maturity to bring
everybody in and to kind of helpsteward the dialogue and not
ignore everybody, but justreally be thoughtful.
What is for the greater good ofthis organization?
And when somebody takes a frontseat and when we need to
compromise and you know it's notit's communications not playing
(10:08):
a passive role of taking in.
What do you need us to put outthere?
But really almost like trafficcopying communications and
different messaging that goesout.
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Speaker 2 (11:09):
I'm curious to hear your perspective, and I realize
I am opening a can of worms andI'm going to acknowledge that up
(11:35):
front.
But as we sit here talking today, we are coming off what I would
call a wild weekend incommunication, where we saw
TikTok go down for 12 hours andthen reemerge, and now
everybody's a little skepticalabout who may or may not be
taking over TikTok.
I would love to get yourthoughts one on how that's
playing out.
Tiktok, I would love to getyour thoughts one on how that's
playing out.
But also you know so many folkshave to your point what the
channel is that you're going tobe on.
So many folks have built TikTokout to showcase a lot of those
(11:59):
things, and so I'm wondering ifthere are a lot of folks at this
stage starting to realize thatbuilding your tent on someone
else's land is maybe a littlemore risky than you had
anticipated.
I think there's a lot of folksat least what I've seen in the
LinkedIn conversations todaythere's a lot of folks who are
(12:20):
starting to really see the needto grow email lists and not rely
on those social channels.
So, coming off of all of that,I would love to hear your
perspective about what channelsare important in a comms plan
right now?
Speaker 3 (12:35):
Yeah.
So I mean I'm just going tocome right out and say that
personally, on a personal level,I would not be sad to see
TikTok go, recognizing economicimpact, recognizing that it does
create livelihood for manypeople, but I think as a
communications channel, yes, itdoes all of those things.
But the primary thing I seeTikTok do is elevate particular
(12:56):
brands or particular products, alot of times feeding into young
and oftentimes children, youthand children products.
And you know those products arepromoted, they're bought,
creating more revenue, and thenthat revenue is channeled right
back into promoting more ofthese products.
So it's almost like aself-perpetuating topic cycle.
So I would not be sad to see itgo and I think productivity
(13:20):
among high school and middleschoolers would probably go way
up.
That said, I think thatexpression don't build your tent
on somebody else's land.
I mean, I think that's right.
You have to hedge your bets andkind of understand the risks of
.
You know you can developfollowing an audience, but the
second the channel goes away orfalls out of favor, you are
(13:41):
putting yourself at risk.
So I think that's part of it.
Email I don't see it as apanacea.
It can certainly be helpful fororganizations, charities,
nonprofits.
I'm not sure it fullysubstitutes for what consume,
how consumers are taking in someof those videos, right Like
it's just it's a different wayof consuming information and I'm
(14:02):
not sure it's a substitute.
But I think you know creatorsthat are excellent and excel at
what they do.
I do see them prevailing andyou know creativity the cream
will rise to the top.
I've seen a lot of creators whouse content across different
platforms, so maybe they changeit for, you know, instagram or
(14:24):
for Facebook, but it is similarand we're starting to see more
videos on LinkedIn, which I havemixed mixed bag reaction on.
So I just think it's.
It's the vehicle, the message,the content of it doesn't change
and you know, when there's avacuum, something will come and
fill it, so I'm not overlydistraught about it.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Yeah, I would agree with a lot of those sentences,
but I think too a lot of timesand this is to your point
earlier communication has tohave a goal in mind.
Right To be strategic, it hasto have a goal, and so often we
rely on those social channels todrive to a specific donation
(15:05):
page or a specific call toaction, and I do tend to wonder
how, if we would be betterserved to kind of dig in and
like use that social platform asa call to join the email list
and then think strategicallyabout how we use email or drive
to a specific blog page orsomething like that, again
(15:27):
driving back to land we own to,to borrow the analogy.
Is that a strategy that youhave seen a lot of folks have
success with?
Is it something that we shouldconsider?
Is there a better option?
Speaker 3 (15:40):
You know, I think I think it's a little bit of a
misperception that you can takesomebody from a channel that
they like and prefer, transitionthem to another channel.
Fantastic point, yes, you know.
I just think some people willnever be your email responsive
people.
We have our preferences.
So it's not just because wewant them to be on email it
(16:03):
doesn't mean that they will wantto be on email and will engage
with us.
I think of it as more as carvingout and it will make.
It will make those people whowant the very concrete measure
probably a little bit crazy, butit's it's really kind of a
battle for attention and it's abattle for recognition of our
brand and what we stand for.
(16:23):
And that transcends anychannels.
And you know it's not a directresponse type of promotional
effort and that's kind of wherecommunications comes in.
But you know, do they remember,you, do they understand what
you do?
And I think that you know thatevolves if you're using
different channels or differentmedia.
But you know, just becausesomebody is no longer has access
(16:45):
to TikTok doesn't mean thatgoes away.
So whether it's giving themoptions, it's being available
where your audience is likely tobe, whether it's email, whether
it's another channel, whetherit's mail, for that matter,
right Like if we were to get areally old school mail and
telefunding and all of thosetypes of channels.
So it's really looking at itthrough the lens of what your
(17:08):
audience want and not where wewould prefer to funnel them into
.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
All right, that's a great answer.
Yes, fantastic.
I think so often like we getstuck in the okay, well, we have
this many followers, but you'reright, there are people who
very much want the concreteanswer of what does that mean?
Great, but what are thosefollowers doing and what do we?
What do we want them to do?
But you're right, if I'mconnected to you on Instagram, I
(17:35):
it doesn't mean I want to be onyour email list.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
Yeah and Megan, I had this conversation with somebody
you know about Instagramspecifically and kind of how to
advance the issue or particulartopic, and I sort of said to
them I'm not the same person onInstagram that I am on LinkedIn
or on my professional emailright or on my professional
email.
Right Like on Instagram, I'mlooking for cats doing cute
(18:00):
dances and, like I follow anumber of influential raccoons
and other.
Like mammal, I'm not interestedin being educated, I'm not
interested in yeah.
So it's the context as well.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Yeah, that's, that's great.
I love that.
Okay.
So then, in the going all theway back to the original post
that started this conversationabout communication
bibbidi-bobbidi-boo, not beingmagic Talk to me about some of
the things that it can do If youhave really like, come up with
a good you're following a goodstrategic communication plan.
(18:34):
What are some things that itcan do Besides, you know,
turning mice and pumpkins intothings?
Speaker 3 (18:47):
Yeah, I mean I think first and foremost it's
relevance, right.
So it's it's taking what you do.
It has our missions and thework where you know our programs
etc.
There's a lot of different waysto approach them.
So it really allows us to makethe purpose of the organization
relevant to the audience that weserve, kind of explaining the
why, and that why might lookdifferent because any given
program could have multiplereasons and multiple purposes.
So it's really kind of helpingthem understand what's important
(19:09):
about it and why it matters andaligning the work to their
values.
I think that's probably one ofthe most core, fundamental
things that communications cando.
There's sort of the veryobvious engaging your audiences
to volunteer or to advocate,like very, very specific,
tangible outcomes.
(19:29):
It's that brand building and Ithink brand gets misunderstood a
lot.
Brand is much more than visualidentity.
It's that again, that piece oftheir attention and piece of
their understanding what youstand for is really important.
Storytelling probably one of myfavorite aspects of
communications, which is reallyabout translating kind of the
(19:51):
data, the very cut and drycomponents, into much more
engaging and, frankly, a waythat we're wired to absorb
information, something that wejust get very emotionally
invested in, is really important.
I think it's about mobilizingcommunities.
It can really kind of buildmovements, communications and
kind of how we say the words,not to get completely esoteric
(20:13):
here.
But you look at some of thesehistorical works I was studying
with my son for his historyclass and kind of Karl Marx and
you know what they wrote.
And then lo and behold, 70years later, those words really
spurred some transformationalchanges for better or worse.
We're not going to get intothat here, but in a very
(20:34):
different way.
So the words have incrediblepower and that power transcends
the medias.
The ideas that are put outthere, which is, you know, kind
of the core of communication,can really transform how we live
our lives, and in prettyfundamental ways, for better and
for worse.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Yeah, I agree.
So if, if someone is listeningtoday, let's say they're maybe
the executive director ordirector of development or VP of
advancement or any of thosekind of titles a natural
question if I am that personwould be like well, how do I
know if my communication isbeing strategic?
How do I know if I'm doing agood job with this?
(21:14):
So what are some questions orwhat are some things that that
person could go look at?
Today, like this afternoon I'mgoing to go do this, I'm going
to check it out.
What are some things that youlook at in your audits or what
would you suggest they take alook at to really decide if
their communication is on track?
Speaker 3 (21:35):
Well, I think it starts with that listening
component.
When we talk aboutcommunications, a lot of times
we focus on outbound message andwhat we put out, and not enough
time is spent on kind of thefeedback loop and how it's being
received and what youraudiences think.
So you know kind of, first andforemost, picking up the phone
or grabbing a coffee with one ofyour volunteers, one of your
(21:57):
board leaders, or just even youknow getting together with a
group of supporters and tryingto understand from their
perspective.
You know, what do they think ofyou?
Are they aware of the thingsyou're doing, what's working,
what's not working, and that cantake many different shapes,
right.
So there's a lot ofopportunities in our day-to-day
jobs to kind of take note ofsome of those things.
(22:18):
So I think that's kind of a keyaspect of it.
And then, when I think ofeffective communications, it
really begins and ends withempathy.
And when I say empathy, it'snot about feeling emotional or
sad for somebody, it'sunderstanding their point of
view.
So it's not about what I wantto say to you.
(22:58):
No-transcript, and that can.
That can translate into very,very kind of simple,
understandable things likeprofessional associations, right
.
So if you have somebody'sprofessional contact information
and you're contacting them onthe weekend.
They may not be payingattention.
It's their job, they're tunedout.
(23:19):
So it's just really takingthose nuggets at a very, very
human level and thinking abouthow it will be received.
Like, think about your owngroup of friends, like you know
who to not contact first thingin the morning because you will
not get a response.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Right, absolutely Right, or if you're planning, I
know who I can guarantee who Iwill likely wake up to a text
from, because they're up waylater than I was.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
Yeah, that's, that's exactly.
It's a very human response.
Or if you're planning, you'remaking plans with somebody, you
know that you know one of yourfriends.
If you don't give them detailsand you don't spell it all out,
they will not show up, yep.
So it's just really kind oftrying friends, if you don't
give them details and you don'tspell it all out, they will not
show up.
So it's just really kind oftrying to to look at it through
their lens and not just what wewant to say, but how they will
receive it.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
I.
That's such a good reminder.
I think too often we tend tojust all we see is that they're
a donor to our organization,right, but we we fail to even
consider that they might also bea donor to seven other
organizations.
We don't know, right, but wefail to even consider that they
might also be a donor to sevenother organizations, we don't
know right.
We don't monopolize theirkindness and charitable giving,
(24:26):
but they do have so many otherpieces to their personality.
It's so often, I find, that weforget that donors are human.
So this is a really good callto go back to that truth.
Like no, we have to treat themthe way that we would want to be
treated, because they're humanand and that's how communication
happens.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
Exactly, exactly, I mean, I think, about world
events, right.
So you know, especially fororganizations that are not
you're sort of more attuned tolocal happenings in your own
community, but for organizationsthat are nationwide like if
you're contacting somebody inSouthern California right now
about something really, reallyurgent, it can kind of not be a
(25:08):
priority at the moment, right?
So it's just having thatawareness and pausing and
thinking.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
Yeah, that's great.
Okay, this has been a fantasticconversation.
Thank you so much.
If somebody wanted to you know,connect with you or learn more
about the work that you do,what's the best way to find you
and connect?
Speaker 3 (25:26):
LinkedIn is always a good place, olga Woltman, on
LinkedIn.
You can also email me, owoltman, at lemon-skiescom.
I'm much better on LinkedInthan I am on email, admittedly,
but I will absolutely respond.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Fantastic.
Well, thank you so much forjoining us.
This has been a greatconversation.
I do highly recommend that yougo follow Olga because she's
always putting out some reallyinteresting posts, really well
thought out pieces from her foranyone who is a nonprofit leader
, so highly recommend going toconnect with her there.
But thank you so much forjoining us.
We really appreciate that.
This has been another episodeof the Nonprofit Hub Podcast.
(26:02):
I'm your host, megan Spear, andwe'll see you next time.
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Speaker 2 (00:36):
Welcome back to the Nonprofit Hub podcast.
I'm your host, megan Spear, andjoining me today is Olga
Woltman, who's the founder ofLemon Skies.
I am excited to chat with herin person because we've been
LinkedIn connected for a while,but now we get to actually have
a real life conversation.
So, olga, welcome to thepodcast.
Thanks for having me.
Megan Appreciate it.
So tell the audience a littlebit about yourself as kind of an
(00:59):
introduction, and your journeyin nonprofit work, before we
really dig into the topic todayaround strategic communication.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Yeah.
So I was actually reflecting onhow I got into nonprofit sector
and I think fundamentally Ijust believe in service and I
believe in our ability to changethings.
We see and we need to bechanged.
I've really spent my entireprofessional career in nonprofit
sector and various roles atagencies, within nonprofits,
(01:26):
in-house, primarily focusing onfundraising, a lot of digital
work and, of course,communications and marketing
messaging.
Those types of things reallykind of give me joy, if you will
.
And then in my spare time Ivolunteer and I sit on the
boards of a couple differentnonprofits, both in our sector
DMAW, special Olympics, virginia.
(01:48):
So just really try to, you know, walk the walk, as they say.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
I love that.
So the conversation at handtoday is around strategic
communication both what it isand what it is not, and digging
really into what it looks liketo have a good strategic
communication, like holisticcommunication plan, and why
that's so important.
But this whole conversationcame out because you had one of
(02:15):
the best LinkedIn posts I'veseen in quite some time and I it
caught my attention one becauseit was Cinderella and I was
very into it.
But it was talking about whatcommunication can do and what
messaging can do versus what itcan't.
And I want to start withthere's so many good points in
(02:35):
this post.
Go connect with Olga onLinkedIn and find it for
yourself, because it's justfascinating.
But one of the things that yousay is that communications
cannot turn little mice intoadditional staff to double your
output.
The opening one iscommunications isn't going to
turn pumpkins intoinfrastructure to prop up
operations.
(02:55):
I mean preach Fantastic points.
So talk to me a little bitabout what inspired this post.
Where did it come from?
And then let's really dig intosome of the what comms can do
once they're good.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Yeah, I mean, I think in various steps of my
professional journey,communication sometimes is
looked at as almost like thefairy godmother, if you will, to
stick with our analogy.
And you know it is very truethat strategic, brilliant
communications can really do alot to present your mission in a
way that resonates with donors,give clarity, raise awareness,
(03:30):
help advocate for the cause.
So there's a lot of things thatcommunications can do, but
there's definitely a set ofthings where you know you can
have the most brilliantcommunicator but it's really not
a communications problem if youwill.
So, for example, if you don'thave infrastructure to support
your operations, I can develop abrilliant communication
(03:52):
strategy, but if you don't havesegmentation functionality to
actually target the rightaudiences, or if your data is
messy and flawed, no amount ofcommunication strategy can save
you from that.
And similarly, you know you canbe brilliant, but
communications cannotovercompensate for a lack of
(04:12):
resources.
So it's sort of it's not amiracle worker.
It can do a lot of things and Iknow sometimes it seems like we
produce magic, but there'sdefinitely a limit.
You know you can't communicateyour way out of not having the
right resources or mission.
That's not clear in its purpose.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
So there's some foundational pieces that need to
be in place beforecommunications comes in there
has to be a clear mission and aclear purpose, because I do
think, man, that tends to be ahang up for a lot of
organizations we're notcommunicating effectively
(04:51):
because we don't know what thegoal is right.
We don't understand what we'rehere for.
So when you're working withsomebody, if that is the problem
, right, how?
What are the steps?
I'm curious about this wholeprocess, for from how do we make
sure that the communication iscorrect all the way through?
What are the pieces that shouldbe included in a holistic,
(05:15):
strategic communication plan?
Because I think a lot of timesit's like just send an email,
it's fine, or that has nothingto do with what we're saying on
social media.
All of the pieces don't tend tomatch.
So I'm curious from yourperspective, to like what those
pieces are and how we start thatprocess to make sure that our
communication is effective.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
Yeah.
So when I work with colleagues,peers, clients, organizations,
it's really about asking a lotof questions and really really
listening.
So not asking and intending torespond, but really kind of
teasing out those insights,Because usually, whether it's
the founder, whether it's amission person, the answers are
there.
You just have to really reallypay attention.
(05:58):
But to your question aboutstrategic communications, it's
really it's all aboutunderstanding the purpose who
are we talking to and what arewe trying to get them to?
Which kind of point we'retrying to advance them to?
If you don't know answers tothose questions, that's really
kind of about strategic thinking, about where organization is
(06:18):
going or where a particularprogram is going, because
communications has to have apurpose.
It's not just, it's not justabout outputting something, just
to put something out.
It's taking your audience andbringing them along.
Whether it's a particularaction, whether it's increased
awareness of different,different efforts your
organization does.
It could be multiple, multiplepurposes, but if you don't have
(06:40):
purpose, you you've really kindof don't have that what I'm
describing as foundational piecein place, like, yeah, we don't
just put out messages just to,we don't talk for the sake of
talking.
It needs to, it needs to have areason to exist.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
I man, and so I come from a social media background,
right, and so often I see postsfrom organizations which is like
you clearly didn't haveanything to say, Right, but
somebody told them that theyneeded to be on Facebook every
day and so out this withsomething, yes, with whatever,
(07:16):
and I just sit there and I thinkwhat did you really like?
This isn't helpful.
No this isn't helpful.
Consist't helpful.
Consistency is good, yes, butif you don't actually have
anything to say, just maybe justtake a step back and then I
think but how do we startknowing what to say, right and
how?
And start, because I do thinkthere's that gets lost a lot of
(07:39):
times of what we want to becommunicating.
So when we talk about thingslike social media or email, so
often non-profits have so manydiverse audiences that they're
trying to talk to of what wewant to be communicating.
So when we talk about thingslike social media or email, so
often nonprofits have so manydiverse audiences that they're
trying to talk to.
So, yes, you have the donordevelopment team that wants you
to do nothing but ask like,please.
Here's another donate link.
Donate link.
Donate link.
You might have folks who aretrying to recruit volunteers.
(08:01):
You might have an event comingup, but you also have
constituents that you're servingthat are following your page as
well.
Talk to me a little bit aboutthe balance of all of the types
of messaging that a nonprofithas and how we can, kind of like
strategically think throughmaintaining that balance so that
you're talking to everybody andnobody gets ignored.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Right.
Well, you ask really excellentand very thought provoking
questions, so thank you for that.
I think it starts with auditingwhere your people are, because
not everybody exists in everychannel and you know, frankly,
it's not just about what andwhere you say, but it's also
where do you need to just kindof back off and you know if your
(08:44):
audience is not on Instagramand you're not a cause that's
visually appealing, because somearen't, maybe, you know, maybe
that's really a wasted effort.
So you know, I just don'tbelieve in doing anything for
the sake of doing it.
So it's really kind ofunderstanding where your
different audiences reside andengage with you.
And then to your point aboutdifferent audiences and
different purposes and engagewith you.
(09:05):
And then to your point aboutdifferent audiences and
different purposes it's abalance and that balance is
achieved in bringing yourdifferent stakeholders in and
really kind of having thatdialogue to understand, because
you know there's certain timesof year where development is
going to be a priority and youknow we all know end of December
, development kind of takes thefront seat.
It's understanding where someof your program people are
(09:25):
coming in from.
There's also this funny tensionbetween development and
marketing, where marketing isall about spotlighting victories
and positive things and all thethings are going great and
development knows very well thatno one writes you a check to
congratulate you.
You need to articulate the need, you need to articulate what's
not being done.
(09:45):
So it's just really kind ofhaving maturity to bring
everybody in and to kind of helpsteward the dialogue and not
ignore everybody, but justreally be thoughtful.
What is for the greater good ofthis organization?
And when somebody takes a frontseat and when we need to
compromise and you know it's notit's communications not playing
(10:08):
a passive role of taking in.
What do you need us to put outthere?
But really almost like trafficcopying communications and
different messaging that goesout.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
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Speaker 2 (11:09):
I'm curious to hear your perspective, and I realize
I am opening a can of worms andI'm going to acknowledge that up
(11:35):
front.
But as we sit here talking today, we are coming off what I would
call a wild weekend incommunication, where we saw
TikTok go down for 12 hours andthen reemerge, and now
everybody's a little skepticalabout who may or may not be
taking over TikTok.
I would love to get yourthoughts one on how that's
playing out.
Tiktok, I would love to getyour thoughts one on how that's
playing out.
But also you know so many folkshave to your point what the
channel is that you're going tobe on.
So many folks have built TikTokout to showcase a lot of those
(11:59):
things, and so I'm wondering ifthere are a lot of folks at this
stage starting to realize thatbuilding your tent on someone
else's land is maybe a littlemore risky than you had
anticipated.
I think there's a lot of folksat least what I've seen in the
LinkedIn conversations todaythere's a lot of folks who are
(12:20):
starting to really see the needto grow email lists and not rely
on those social channels.
So, coming off of all of that,I would love to hear your
perspective about what channelsare important in a comms plan
right now?
Speaker 3 (12:35):
Yeah.
So I mean I'm just going tocome right out and say that
personally, on a personal level,I would not be sad to see
TikTok go, recognizing economicimpact, recognizing that it does
create livelihood for manypeople, but I think as a
communications channel, yes, itdoes all of those things.
But the primary thing I seeTikTok do is elevate particular
(12:56):
brands or particular products, alot of times feeding into young
and oftentimes children, youthand children products.
And you know those products arepromoted, they're bought,
creating more revenue, and thenthat revenue is channeled right
back into promoting more ofthese products.
So it's almost like aself-perpetuating topic cycle.
So I would not be sad to see itgo and I think productivity
(13:20):
among high school and middleschoolers would probably go way
up.
That said, I think thatexpression don't build your tent
on somebody else's land.
I mean, I think that's right.
You have to hedge your bets andkind of understand the risks of
.
You know you can developfollowing an audience, but the
second the channel goes away orfalls out of favor, you are
(13:41):
putting yourself at risk.
So I think that's part of it.
Email I don't see it as apanacea.
It can certainly be helpful fororganizations, charities,
nonprofits.
I'm not sure it fullysubstitutes for what consume,
how consumers are taking in someof those videos, right Like
it's just it's a different wayof consuming information and I'm
(14:02):
not sure it's a substitute.
But I think you know creatorsthat are excellent and excel at
what they do.
I do see them prevailing andyou know creativity the cream
will rise to the top.
I've seen a lot of creators whouse content across different
platforms, so maybe they changeit for, you know, instagram or
(14:24):
for Facebook, but it is similarand we're starting to see more
videos on LinkedIn, which I havemixed mixed bag reaction on.
So I just think it's.
It's the vehicle, the message,the content of it doesn't change
and you know, when there's avacuum, something will come and
fill it, so I'm not overlydistraught about it.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Yeah, I would agree with a lot of those sentences,
but I think too a lot of timesand this is to your point
earlier communication has tohave a goal in mind.
Right To be strategic, it hasto have a goal, and so often we
rely on those social channels todrive to a specific donation
(15:05):
page or a specific call toaction, and I do tend to wonder
how, if we would be betterserved to kind of dig in and
like use that social platform asa call to join the email list
and then think strategicallyabout how we use email or drive
to a specific blog page orsomething like that, again
(15:27):
driving back to land we own to,to borrow the analogy.
Is that a strategy that youhave seen a lot of folks have
success with?
Is it something that we shouldconsider?
Is there a better option?
Speaker 3 (15:40):
You know, I think I think it's a little bit of a
misperception that you can takesomebody from a channel that
they like and prefer, transitionthem to another channel.
Fantastic point, yes, you know.
I just think some people willnever be your email responsive
people.
We have our preferences.
So it's not just because wewant them to be on email it
(16:03):
doesn't mean that they will wantto be on email and will engage
with us.
I think of it as more as carvingout and it will make.
It will make those people whowant the very concrete measure
probably a little bit crazy, butit's it's really kind of a
battle for attention and it's abattle for recognition of our
brand and what we stand for.
(16:23):
And that transcends anychannels.
And you know it's not a directresponse type of promotional
effort and that's kind of wherecommunications comes in.
But you know, do they remember,you, do they understand what
you do?
And I think that you know thatevolves if you're using
different channels or differentmedia.
But you know, just becausesomebody is no longer has access
(16:45):
to TikTok doesn't mean thatgoes away.
So whether it's giving themoptions, it's being available
where your audience is likely tobe, whether it's email, whether
it's another channel, whetherit's mail, for that matter,
right Like if we were to get areally old school mail and
telefunding and all of thosetypes of channels.
So it's really looking at itthrough the lens of what your
(17:08):
audience want and not where wewould prefer to funnel them into
.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
All right, that's a great answer.
Yes, fantastic.
I think so often like we getstuck in the okay, well, we have
this many followers, but you'reright, there are people who
very much want the concreteanswer of what does that mean?
Great, but what are thosefollowers doing and what do we?
What do we want them to do?
But you're right, if I'mconnected to you on Instagram, I
(17:35):
it doesn't mean I want to be onyour email list.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
Yeah and Megan, I had this conversation with somebody
you know about Instagramspecifically and kind of how to
advance the issue or particulartopic, and I sort of said to
them I'm not the same person onInstagram that I am on LinkedIn
or on my professional emailright or on my professional
email.
Right Like on Instagram, I'mlooking for cats doing cute
(18:00):
dances and, like I follow anumber of influential raccoons
and other.
Like mammal, I'm not interestedin being educated, I'm not
interested in yeah.
So it's the context as well.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Yeah, that's, that's great.
I love that.
Okay.
So then, in the going all theway back to the original post
that started this conversationabout communication
bibbidi-bobbidi-boo, not beingmagic Talk to me about some of
the things that it can do If youhave really like, come up with
a good you're following a goodstrategic communication plan.
(18:34):
What are some things that itcan do Besides, you know,
turning mice and pumpkins intothings?
Speaker 3 (18:47):
Yeah, I mean I think first and foremost it's
relevance, right.
So it's it's taking what you do.
It has our missions and thework where you know our programs
etc.
There's a lot of different waysto approach them.
So it really allows us to makethe purpose of the organization
relevant to the audience that weserve, kind of explaining the
why, and that why might lookdifferent because any given
program could have multiplereasons and multiple purposes.
So it's really kind of helpingthem understand what's important
(19:09):
about it and why it matters andaligning the work to their
values.
I think that's probably one ofthe most core, fundamental
things that communications cando.
There's sort of the veryobvious engaging your audiences
to volunteer or to advocate,like very, very specific,
tangible outcomes.
(19:29):
It's that brand building and Ithink brand gets misunderstood a
lot.
Brand is much more than visualidentity.
It's that again, that piece oftheir attention and piece of
their understanding what youstand for is really important.
Storytelling probably one of myfavorite aspects of
communications, which is reallyabout translating kind of the
(19:51):
data, the very cut and drycomponents, into much more
engaging and, frankly, a waythat we're wired to absorb
information, something that wejust get very emotionally
invested in, is really important.
I think it's about mobilizingcommunities.
It can really kind of buildmovements, communications and
kind of how we say the words,not to get completely esoteric
(20:13):
here.
But you look at some of thesehistorical works I was studying
with my son for his historyclass and kind of Karl Marx and
you know what they wrote.
And then lo and behold, 70years later, those words really
spurred some transformationalchanges for better or worse.
We're not going to get intothat here, but in a very
(20:34):
different way.
So the words have incrediblepower and that power transcends
the medias.
The ideas that are put outthere, which is, you know, kind
of the core of communication,can really transform how we live
our lives, and in prettyfundamental ways, for better and
for worse.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Yeah, I agree.
So if, if someone is listeningtoday, let's say they're maybe
the executive director ordirector of development or VP of
advancement or any of thosekind of titles a natural
question if I am that personwould be like well, how do I
know if my communication isbeing strategic?
How do I know if I'm doing agood job with this?
(21:14):
So what are some questions orwhat are some things that that
person could go look at?
Today, like this afternoon I'mgoing to go do this, I'm going
to check it out.
What are some things that youlook at in your audits or what
would you suggest they take alook at to really decide if
their communication is on track?
Speaker 3 (21:35):
Well, I think it starts with that listening
component.
When we talk aboutcommunications, a lot of times
we focus on outbound message andwhat we put out, and not enough
time is spent on kind of thefeedback loop and how it's being
received and what youraudiences think.
So you know kind of, first andforemost, picking up the phone
or grabbing a coffee with one ofyour volunteers, one of your
(21:57):
board leaders, or just even youknow getting together with a
group of supporters and tryingto understand from their
perspective.
You know, what do they think ofyou?
Are they aware of the thingsyou're doing, what's working,
what's not working, and that cantake many different shapes,
right.
So there's a lot ofopportunities in our day-to-day
jobs to kind of take note ofsome of those things.
(22:18):
So I think that's kind of a keyaspect of it.
And then, when I think ofeffective communications, it
really begins and ends withempathy.
And when I say empathy, it'snot about feeling emotional or
sad for somebody, it'sunderstanding their point of
view.
So it's not about what I wantto say to you.
(22:58):
No-transcript, and that can.
That can translate into very,very kind of simple,
understandable things likeprofessional associations, right
.
So if you have somebody'sprofessional contact information
and you're contacting them onthe weekend.
They may not be payingattention.
It's their job, they're tunedout.
(23:19):
So it's just really takingthose nuggets at a very, very
human level and thinking abouthow it will be received.
Like, think about your owngroup of friends, like you know
who to not contact first thingin the morning because you will
not get a response.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Right, absolutely Right, or if you're planning, I
know who I can guarantee who Iwill likely wake up to a text
from, because they're up waylater than I was.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
Yeah, that's, that's exactly.
It's a very human response.
Or if you're planning, you'remaking plans with somebody, you
know that you know one of yourfriends.
If you don't give them detailsand you don't spell it all out,
they will not show up, yep.
So it's just really kind oftrying friends, if you don't
give them details and you don'tspell it all out, they will not
show up.
So it's just really kind oftrying to to look at it through
their lens and not just what wewant to say, but how they will
receive it.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
I.
That's such a good reminder.
I think too often we tend tojust all we see is that they're
a donor to our organization,right, but we we fail to even
consider that they might also bea donor to seven other
organizations.
We don't know, right, but wefail to even consider that they
might also be a donor to sevenother organizations, we don't
know right.
We don't monopolize theirkindness and charitable giving,
(24:26):
but they do have so many otherpieces to their personality.
It's so often, I find, that weforget that donors are human.
So this is a really good callto go back to that truth.
Like no, we have to treat themthe way that we would want to be
treated, because they're humanand and that's how communication
happens.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
Exactly, exactly, I mean, I think, about world
events, right.
So you know, especially fororganizations that are not
you're sort of more attuned tolocal happenings in your own
community, but for organizationsthat are nationwide like if
you're contacting somebody inSouthern California right now
about something really, reallyurgent, it can kind of not be a
(25:08):
priority at the moment, right?
So it's just having thatawareness and pausing and
thinking.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
Yeah, that's great.
Okay, this has been a fantasticconversation.
Thank you so much.
If somebody wanted to you know,connect with you or learn more
about the work that you do,what's the best way to find you
and connect?
Speaker 3 (25:26):
LinkedIn is always a good place, olga Woltman, on
LinkedIn.
You can also email me, owoltman, at lemon-skiescom.
I'm much better on LinkedInthan I am on email, admittedly,
but I will absolutely respond.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Fantastic.
Well, thank you so much forjoining us.
This has been a greatconversation.
I do highly recommend that yougo follow Olga because she's
always putting out some reallyinteresting posts, really well
thought out pieces from her foranyone who is a nonprofit leader
, so highly recommend going toconnect with her there.
But thank you so much forjoining us.
We really appreciate that.
This has been another episodeof the Nonprofit Hub Podcast.
(26:02):
I'm your host, megan Spear, andwe'll see you next time.
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