May 16, 2025 • 33 mins
When the world feels like it's erupting around your nonprofit, should you wait for the storm to pass or forge ahead? In this timely conversation, Kimberly Bottom of Feather shares why inaction during uncertain times poses the greatest risk to your organization's future. We dive into the current challenging climate for nonprofits - from funding freezes to harmful rhetoric questioning the sector's legitimacy. Rather than seeing these as reasons to retreat, Kimberly reveals how they create unprecedented opportunities to amplify your mission and transform criticism into connection. "All press is good press," she notes. "The fact that nonprofits are being recognized nationally, even though the rhetoric is bad, gives us a taller soapbox to show what we're really about." The conversation explores practical strategies for nurturing donor relationships across generations, leveraging automation to create surprisingly personal experiences, and approaching new communication channels with a "test, don't guess" mentality. Whether you're feeling overwhelmed by technological change, unsure about investing in marketing during lean times, or simply looking for a confidence boost, this episode delivers both strategic insight and empowering perspective. As Kim powerfully reminds us: "Take the high road. Say 'Hey, you're bringing all this attention to me? Thanks, I'm going to show you all the good work I'm doing.'" Don't miss this blueprint for turning today's challenges into tomorrow's opportunities.
Kimberly Bottom is a passionate storyteller and a sharp strategic thinker with nearly two decades of experience in digital media. As Director of Community Engagement at Feather, Kimberly consults with nonprofits on the most effective and efficient ways to know, grow and engage their audiences through GOOD digital marketing.
Get free nonprofit professional development resources, connections to cause work peers, and more at https://nonprofithub.org
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Drowning in spreadsheets and manual
processes.
Bonterra Apricot is the smarter, faster way for nonprofits to
manage programs, track outcomesand actually show your impact.
Find out how at BonterraTechcomslash Nonprofit Hub.
Welcome back to the NonprofitHub podcast.
I'm your host, megan Spear.
(00:21):
Joining me today is KimberlyBottom.
If you guys were at CauseCamp,you may remember Kim, who did an
excellent session on findingjoy at work, so we're excited to
have her back now speaking tothe podcast audience here at
Nonprofit Hub.
Kim, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Thanks, megan.
Super excited to be here.
Had such a great time atCauseCamp.
Excited for this year too.
Yes, can't wait to have youguys back.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Yeah, so good.
Yeah, we love our partnershipwith Feather, so okay.
So we are digging in to somebig stuff today and I am excited
Feels like the wrong word, butI think it's going to be a
really good conversation.
Before we dig into kind of thetopic at hand, tell the audience
a little bit about yourself andkind of your journey in the
nonprofit space that brought youhere today.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Yeah, 100%.
I'm probably like a lot of youguys listening where it was not
a direct line into nonprofitwork, right?
None of us kind of woke up whenwe were four and said I want to
work this way, right?
But I actually started as anews producer.
I was a broadcast journalistfor many years and it's just
because I love telling stories.
I love the impact that it hason people.
So, unfortunately, as you allprobably know, stories in local
(01:26):
news are not the best stories totell.
Yeah, they can be really tough.
So I did that for about five orsix years and I realized that,
like, I love telling stories,but I'm going to go find some
better stories, right?
So I was able to actually workfor meetings and events for
nonprofits for another six yearscreating video content, a lot
of same day content duringevents, a lot of year round
(01:46):
content to keep that momentumgoing.
And that's really where I foundmy heart and soul and that's
how I found Feathers.
Because, as a content creator,you create these beautiful
things, right?
You spend so much time craftingthat email, you spend so much
time devising that video,telling that story, and then
nobody sees it and you're like,hello, is anybody out there,
right?
So I think that when I foundFeather and I was like wait,
(02:07):
wait, wait, you're telling methere's like a machine out here
that can, like, use robots toget this in front of the right
people.
Why didn't I know this existedbefore?
So that's really where mypassion for you know, if content
is king, distribution is queenand, um, or you know, maybe the
other way around, distributionis king but anyway but yeah, so
that's kind of how I found myway into nonprofit storytelling,
(02:28):
into, you know, the nonprofitspace in general and now really
just helping nonprofits taketheir stories that they craft
very well on their own and justget them in front of the right
people.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
I love it.
Such a great, a great journey,but also to a great platform.
We love feather, but speakingof our conversation today is
kind of kicking off around ablog that I saw you all put out
recently.
The name of the blog was theCost of Inaction Strategies for
Nonprofits Facing the FundingFreeze.
I think we would all agree thatthis is a really hard time to
(03:00):
be a nonprofit.
There's constant change,there's constant negativity,
we've got all sorts of unknowns,but there was a line in the
blog actually that saiduncertainty doesn't have to mean
inaction, and that was reallythe one that struck me as like,
yes, we have to keep moving, andone of those points I really
appreciated was the inactionitself is a risk.
(03:22):
Yeah, not doing anything is arisk, even though moving
sometimes feels risky.
So let's jump in and talk thereabout what that looks like and
kind of where your thoughts arein that process.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Yeah, 100% that right now, the nonprofit sector
almost feels like under attack abit.
Right, there are very highlevel things that none of us can
control going on affecting thefunds that we need to do, the
good work that we are continuingto do, and even outside of
those actual, you know, federalthings going on.
(03:54):
We've got very powerful peoplesaying largely unfounded things
about how nonprofits operate.
Right Like, a direct quote isthat it's a scam.
And yeah, first of all, let'sjust set the stage that feather
and nonprofit hub and no, nobodybelieves that.
Right Like, nonprofits are nota scam.
(04:15):
Now, as it as with any business,any for-profit business, are
there bad apples out there, ofcourse, but that is not who
nonprofits are about.
So I think that, honestly,right now, the opportunity to
stand up and go like nope,you're wrong is actually a very
powerful moment that we shouldbe capitalizing on.
So it feels scary because thebedrock beneath the organization
(04:37):
, the funding, the good namethat we have seems to be, like I
said, a little bit under attack.
But because it is not founded,we have a great opportunity to
stand up and be like here are myreceipts, here's the good work
that I'm doing.
This is why you should besupporting me and, if anything,
that will actually create thisnet, new wave of interest and
(04:59):
support in what we're doing.
But I absolutely understand thatpeople working day in and day
out at these nonprofits, who arealready stressed, who are
already overworked, who arealready over budget, are going.
Oh my gosh.
There's one more thing now toworry about and navigate through
.
But to that point, adversityisn't new and it's certainly not
(05:21):
going away, right?
Think COVID, think the greatrecession.
Yes, every election cycle ever,right, like these things are
going to continue to happen.
So, having the wherewithal togo all right, change is
inevitable.
Let's learn how to act throughit and how to reevaluate what's
really important and lean intothose things.
(05:43):
That's a powerful muscle todevelop and flex and we have the
opportunity to do that rightnow.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Yeah, I wholeheartedly agree and yes,
for the record, nonprofits arenot a scam.
The fact that we even have tosay that is so absurd to me, but
that's a soapbox for a wholedifferent day.
But so, when it comes to actionthat we can take now, one of
the things that I really lovedabout the blog that you all put
out was that the first call outis around this idea that donor
(06:11):
relationships require nurturing.
They do.
I think we were just talkingwith Nathan Hill on a webinar
about the importance ofretention and managing those
relationships.
I just had a LinkedIn postabout how we have to stop
expecting donors to not behavelike humans and have normal
human emotions and reactions.
Right Things right, but On thesame line of like things I think
(06:35):
are ridiculous that we have tosay, like nonprofits are a scam,
it's the idea thatrelationships have to have
action in them is also somethingthat feels absurd to say.
Right, it's like I can'tbelieve we're still having to
have the same conversation, Iguess.
But but let's talk about thatpoint though.
What does it look like toreally, from, from your
(06:56):
perspective, to really nurturethose relationships?
What is that?
If that's the action we'regoing to take, if that's the
thing that we can do in themidst of the chaos.
What does that look like fromyour perspective?
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Exactly, and you know the tough part about that,
megan, is that it changes.
I wish that we could be like.
This is how donors need to betalked to forever and in
perpetuity, and we'll be good togo, and for all types of donors
across.
Yes, like that's the hardestpart.
It's not that nonprofitprofessionals don't think that
their donors are human, and it'sjust that it does.
(07:27):
It changes so frequently withevery generation.
It feels like every other daythere's a new app or a platform
that we feel like we need to beon to talk to these people and
it's really tough to know whereto reach them.
We have every desire to reachthem, but it's like there's so
many new things popping up.
So I think that's part of thefrustration is that donor
nurturing, donor relationships,means constantly changing your
(07:49):
strategy based on how peoplewant to be talked to, right so?
And the other thing that'sinteresting you know, coming
from a nonprofit marketingplatform, a lot of people don't
associate donor relationships inmarketing, but marketing really
plays a huge role in nurturingdonor relationships.
The good news about that isthere are ways to automate that
(08:12):
nurturing.
That still makes that outreachfeel personal, because that's
the tough part about when youwant to nurture donor
relationship, you want to do itright.
Right, you don't want to sendthem like one email every week.
That's just this general thing,because nobody's going to open
that, they're not going to feelinspired by it.
But the thought of catering mymessage to every single donor I
(08:32):
have is so overwhelming, right,so that would like make me go.
Okay, there's no way I can doall of this manually.
So, in terms of donorrelationships and this is, you
know, I'm kind of putting thefeather lens on it, just because
what we do is we absolutelyhelp people find new donors, but
, especially in a day and agewhere budgets are under really
strict scrutiny right now, it isless expensive to keep the
(08:53):
donors you have than to find newones.
So this is a really importantthing to lean into, and I think
that what we have to kind ofunderstand is that who we're
talking to, like we should notforget our major donors, but
many of them are in a generationthat are aging out.
Right, they're leaving thisearth.
We love them dearly, butthey're not going to be around
(09:14):
forever, and the way they preferto be not only prefer to be
communicated with, but the wayeven that they donate is very
different than this nextgeneration of donors that we are
getting in.
So it's much less about largeamounts status put my name on a
building, like.
We all love those donorsbecause, man, that $50,000, that
$100,000 gift makes an impact.
(09:35):
But in order to get the nextgeneration of those, we got to
start small.
We can't just expect a 25 yearold to want their name on a
building, and the difference Ifeel like really now is that
people of a certain age want Iread an article recently that
was called the helper's highright.
So when you purchase somethingthat is like a consumer-based
(09:55):
product, like a sweater or apair of shoes or whatever, you
get the high of getting thatthing.
You don't get that withdonating.
You give your money and you go.
What did I get out of that?
We need to give them that highand we need to be able to do
that on a large scale, which,again, that's the overwhelming
part of it.
But I think that, especiallyfor nurturing relationships, now
(10:16):
what that means like, at thevery minimum, if you do nothing
else, don't get a donation, senda thank you email and then, 360
days, 365 days later, sendanother call for a donation.
Nurturing doesn't mean that yougot to take them to coffee
every week.
It just means you got to keepyour story and what you're doing
with their funds in front ofthem.
So it can be through emailObviously, we all do email
(10:39):
pretty well right now, right.
But something simple you coulddo is segment and categorize
what people donated for right.
So, like we've got a nonprofitwe did a great case study with
called the Christian Relief Fund, and obviously they do a lot of
really great work in Africa interms of providing clean water
and supporting those communities.
So they have a couple differentoptions.
You can sponsor a child, youcan donate to the Clean Water
(11:02):
Fund.
If a donor you know decides togive to either one of those, you
have to continue to follow upwith that message.
So what Christian Relief Fundhas done really well is segment.
Those audiences know who'sgiving to what initiative and
then they put the right messagesin front of them.
You know a young child drinkingclean water to the people that
donated to the water fund, oryou know the opportunity to
(11:24):
actually meet in person thechild you're sponsoring for the
other sponsors Like these arepower.
That's the high we're lookingfor, that we want to give people
.
So I think, if it comes to ifnurturing donors seems really
overwhelming in these changingtimes with new generations and
new preferences, focus on thebeautiful images that you are
creating for these peoplethrough your good work, like.
(11:45):
What videos, what pictures,what impactful quotes from
people can you provide to themthat makes them go?
Oh my gosh, I got all the warmfuzzies.
Let me donate again.
That's really like the heart ofwhat we should be doing.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
That's such a great call out, and I think too,
especially with some of thoseyounger generations right who
are constantly scrolling socialInstagram, tik TOK.
They're not on Facebook.
I know that that's a hard pillfor a lot of nonprofits just
follow, but that's okay, butokay.
But we are literally inundatedwith these messages, yeah, so if
(12:23):
you think that your one socialmedia post a month is going to
have any sort of place in thatmarket, when they are consuming
literally thousands of messagesa day, that's not going to get
the traction you think it does.
It does not.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Right, it really doesn't.
The actual work of segmenting,creating the messaging, is one
thing, and then that's the otherissue is like right, like, oh
my gosh, where do I put thisstuff?
Like, I get the most reach.
We speak to nonprofits dozensof them every month and they're
all really concerned aboutannoying their audiences.
Right, and I get that RightBecause, again, this is the
(13:02):
kickback that we get a lot.
We have a slogan that saysmarketing is good because
marketing is good.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
It's not some sort of like, it's not some sort of
dirty word that we have towhisper about behind.
Yes, right.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Exactly so.
Marketing is a strategic partof your mission, because it's
like you know, if you're runninga nonprofit without marketing,
it's like having a party and notsending invitations, expecting
people to show up, like you'vegot to tell them that it's going
on.
And in this day and age, toyour point, the amount of time
we spent staring at a screen,the amount of times it takes for
(13:31):
us to really pay attention tothese messages you I would be I
would be impressed if anynonprofit could annoy their
audiences.
It would actually be reallyhard for them to do so.
And I even tell this to thepeople that we talk to every day
.
You know I shop online.
I see these images following mearound everywhere when I check
the news, when I look up arecipe for dinner.
(13:51):
When I see a message from mynonprofit, it is a breath of
fresh air.
It's like I'm not seeing shoesfor once, right.
Like it's reminding me that I'malso spending my money on good
things, not just that next thingthat I don't really need.
So I would really empowernonprofits to look at the
frequency with which they aretalking to people and also
(14:13):
paying attention to thefrequency based on where you're
going to reach them right.
You probably don't want to send15 emails in a week.
That might be a little much forthem to consume.
But, honestly, throughadvertising like, for example,
sure the new unfortunately thenew metric when I was in news,
we used to say that it takesseven times for somebody to hear
or see something before theyactually absorb the message.
(14:35):
It's now 10 to 15.
So if I saw your messages 10times today, I might actually
realize that I actually saw it,maybe not.
It might take more touches thanthat.
So something to consider is thatso many people get trying to
get our attention nowadays thatit's going to feel like a lot
(14:56):
for nonprofits that have notdone this work for years, like
consumer companies have.
Trust me, it's not.
Trust me, it's not.
If anything, you're going toget that 15th message in front
of Kimberly Bottom, who'sscrolling Instagram on her couch
at 8 pm, and that's the momentI'm going to go.
I forgot to donate.
Let me get my credit card Right.
That's what you're chasing andit's going to feel like a lot
(15:17):
coming from you, but on theother end, it's just a little
tap on the shoulder right as Ilive my life.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Well, and that's actually a great segue, because
there's a point in that blogpost that y'all put out about
how brand recognition is thelong game.
Yes, right, and that's.
But those two things have to gohand in hand, and I think
sometimes we get so caught up inlike, well, I did a, I did a
social media blitz and we putout a message every day for a
(15:44):
week and it didn't work.
Okay, but a week is not, it'snot the long game, no, right?
So those kind of messages, thatkind of brand awareness, has to
have that consistency to it oryou are getting lost in the
shuffle.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
It does 100% and that , again, this is where
automation can be your friend,right, like?
I don't want people to hear theword automation and go, oh,
that's impersonal, I'm going tobe that like annoying ad or
email that people don't read.
And it's really not.
Automation is actually payingattention to like, behaviors and
preferences and adjusting basedon that.
(16:22):
So it's actually even morecustomized than you as a human
being are able to provide,because you can't reach into
your computer and see how manytimes somebody clicked that, but
the robots can, right, right.
So that's where automationcomes in and it makes it feel
personalized.
So, for example, within a lot ofemail platforms, but also
within the Feather platform, wehave an email drip sequence, and
(16:43):
drip only means that it'spre-scheduled.
You've got somewhere from likethree to eight emails in a row
and they can either be triggeredjust by the amount of time
that's passed or they can betriggered by a behavior.
So we've got a scenario whereif somebody does not open an
email that was on that list, wemight send them another one with
the subject line said did youget that last message Right?
(17:05):
Oh yeah, moment where thatperson might be like, oh shoot,
no, I didn't.
That was a morning that I feltoverwhelmed and I deleted
everything in my inbox.
So I really want people to dosome research on how automation
can work for you, because thatis going to nurture those donors
and do those things that feelreally overwhelming in a way
that we actually physicallycan't do as humans.
(17:26):
We do need some level oftechnology to help us do that,
and it can be so powerful to theperson on the other end that
feels like oh, they're listening, they're paying attention, they
noticed I didn't open thatemail and they sent another one.
Or they noticed they didn'topen that email twice and they
sent me an advertisement instead, because clearly the inbox is
not where I'm at Right.
So this is just.
(17:47):
It's a great way to caterpreferences in an automated way.
Take that work off your plate.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
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(18:20):
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Today, somewhere along the line, we have associated automation
(18:42):
with that's.
It's too impersonal, it doesn'thave the right tone.
But, like, you set the tone.
Yes, the automation right, youcontrol what the automation does
, and so I think yeah, I thinkthere's a lot of room for growth
in the sector right now forfolks to embrace ways to just
make your life easier.
It's not an impersonal thing,it's not making it work, it's
(19:03):
just there to make your lifeeasier.
I don't have countless hours togo through and figure out,
based on what, let's say, likewhat blog post on our website
somebody has read, what podcastepisode they might be interested
in that I should make surethey're getting an email about
Right.
Right.
I don't have that kind of timefor everybody that comes to our
(19:24):
website and neither does anyonewho's listening to this episode,
right Exactly.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
And just think about your like.
Your website is your digitalstorefront.
If you get this, you know IRL,in real life, this would be your
store that people are going towalk in and walk out of, right?
Yes, this is something where,if somebody walks in and they go
to, you know, the sportinggoods section versus the
homeware section, you're notgoing to serve them a message
about homewares.
(19:48):
So, and that's where you canhave these, these things that
track how people navigate yourwebsite.
What ads do they click or notclick?
What emails do they engage withto understand what that
individual human cares about?
So, megan, if we've gotsomebody visiting this page
listening to podcasts, you'llprobably send them an email
about the next podcast.
The next podcast, yes, but ifyou know they end up on the you
(20:12):
know the cause camp page, thenyou're going to send them a
reminder about early birdregistration and all of that can
be automated, megan.
The human does not need to goin and push a button in order
for that to happen, and thatperson feels like they've been
listened to.
And that is also one other likeimportant designation.
I think that, as nonprofits, weshould be paying attention.
The partnerships we create, thetools we choose to use, look
(20:36):
for nonprofit-specificexperience.
And that's simple.
Because when you're talkingabout marketing and the reason
marketing gets a bad rap isbecause it can feel salesy,
because so many tools andstrategies are focused on
selling something, not onbuilding relationships, which is
what we are doing we don't wantdonors to come once and then
(20:57):
disappear, like in, endlesslyirritated when I purchase
something and it keeps followingme around and says don't miss
out.
I'm like I didn't, I bought it.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
I already did it.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
What do you want from me?
So that's like.
That reasoning is one of thereasons that the feather tool,
for example, is designed toremove somebody from a part of
the funnel or a part of thejourney if they complete an
action.
So I'm no longer servingirrelevant messages to somebody
that already did what I askedthem to do.
And that's a very nonprofitspecific thing, because Nike
(21:29):
doesn't care if it ignores me.
It's got approximately 3billion other people that can go
try to get money from.
We have a very curated list ofpeople who care about what we do
and we've worked very, veryhard to get them to the table.
So again, just when you'redoing research about, hey, how
can I level up my marketing?
What if I want to get intoadvertising?
Or maybe I need, you know, Idon't have a team for that, so
(21:51):
I'm going to look for, like anagency that can help me
part-time or something like that, ask them if they've worked
with nonprofits before.
Ask them if they know how tobuild relationships long-term.
Ask them if they know how eachindividual generation or age
group reacts to nonprofitinitiatives, not consumer
initiatives.
That's really, really important, because it's very different in
(22:11):
terms of how we market to thosepeople.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Absolutely.
I will put a shameless plug inhere that if you are looking for
those types of resources theNonprofit Hub Business Directory
, where you can find Feather andother fantastic organizations
that specifically focus onnonprofit, whether that's for
marketing, fundraising,accounting, et cetera all of
those folks who specificallyserve this sector are on there,
(22:34):
so go check them out.
That's a really great way tofind the exact kind of people
that Kim is talking about.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Thank you for that resource.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
It's helpful.
Everybody go.
It's right there.
It's just curated right for you.
You can find all of thesefriends right there.
Okay, I want to double back,though, to something that you
had said in there about all ofthese platforms.
Right, because I was thinkingabout it when you said it.
Like that can be superoverwhelming.
(23:03):
Oh yeah, when I try to thinkabout, like, do I need a tiktok
strategy?
Do I need a lemonade?
Like, there's so many optionsfrom your perspective, sitting
at feather, understanding that,like, marketing is your game, do
we need all of them?
Do we at least need to like isthere a step we can take?
(23:27):
I heard somebody say one timelike, at least go in and claim
your name and if you don't thinkyou're going to use it, go in
and claim your name so that,down the line, if you decide to
have a strategy around it, great, you at least have that real
estate.
Is that worth?
Is that work worth doing?
Should we be ignoring all thesekinds of ancillary folks?
What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Yeah, you know, I had a very, very wise previous
director of our managed serviceswho is now chasing her dreams
in London, which I'm so about.
Any, I know, right, but she,she always just put it in the
simplest terms and she alwayssays test, don't guess.
So when you are wondering, ohmy gosh, what the heck is
threads, instagram, stop tellingme that I need a threads
account.
I don't even know what that is.
(24:09):
It's stressing me out, right,like this is where, all right,
set aside some time tounderstand what the platform is
about and if you think that thepeople who you care about might
be there, run a small test, likeyou said, go in, claim your
name, throw up a post, see howit does.
You know, maybe cross promotethat a little bit on a more
(24:29):
well-known channel.
All right, I've got a reallygood Facebook following.
You know, I'm going to postsomething on threads and tie it
to my Facebook account and seeif that drives interest.
If you do that for a couplemonths and you don't see a
return on growth I'm not talkingabout oh my gosh, I didn't get
any donations, that's different,right, and we all know that
process takes longer.
But if you're not seeing anincrease in followers if you're
(24:51):
not seeing an increase in webtraffic from that platform to
your website, which, if you arepromoting your website outside
of, obviously, your website,things like UTM codes, which are
like custom URLs, you can putin those posts that say that
will give you the informationthat says you got X amount of
visitors from threads, you got Xamount of visitors from
(25:12):
Facebook, you got X amount ofvisitors from this initiative.
So you know what's actuallypaying off to get people to
click those links and visit yourwebsite.
So if you think there's a newplatform you might be interested
in, test a little bit.
Don't guess, try it.
And if you don't see enoughgrowth and opportunity there to
(25:32):
justify the time spent, move onright.
First of all, who knows how longit's going to be around?
Second of all, it just mightnot be where your audience is,
and that's the hard part, right?
There's so many channels now.
There's a million social mediaposts.
There's all of the websitesthat exist in the world.
There's apps that we can like,serve messages on.
(25:52):
It's like how do I know where?
And this is what.
For example, the a lot ofmarketing technologies, feather
included, will use device IDs asthe driver for how to get in
front of people, rather thanlike the old traditional
marketing.
You would think like all right,now I've got to go and go.
Where are my people?
I think my people might be onthese websites, so I'm going to
(26:13):
go directly through thosewebsites, pay them to serve ads
and hope that people show upthere and see it.
Right, that is no longer needed.
Now we have what is calledprogrammatic and that just means
that you serve your messagesinto an ad exchange.
Think of it like an onlineauction house and that ad
(26:39):
exchange plugs into hundreds ofthousands of, probably millions
of websites that then say thiscell phone visited my website
and it's now on weathercom,checking the weather.
I want to talk to that personthere.
So I'm going to put my littlepaddle up to serve my message on
weathercom and it's going toget placed there because that's
where that device is.
That's the best strategy interms of the channels that are
going to work for you, or interms of the most reach for the
(26:59):
least amount of effort, becauseif you're guessing like, they
might be on Facebook or theymight be on TikTok or they might
be on these websites, youreally don't know unless
somebody clicks the ad andyou're like oh okay, this is a
good channel for us.
But the great thing aboutprogrammatic is we know we're
reaching that person becausethat device visited that site
(27:19):
and we were able to messagethere.
So that's if you're looking for, like, a technology to help
automate, especially digitaladvertising, look for something
that has programmaticadvertising in it so you don't
have to do the ad buying, buying.
You don't have to worry aboutthe ad buying and you know your
message is getting in front ofpeople that have shown an
interest in some way so good.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
I love it okay.
So I think my favorite part ofthis whole episode is that these
are all what I would say islike reminders of why basics and
fundamentals are important,right, especially when, like
going back to the full circlemoment, especially when things
feel chaotic there are truthsthat are like legitimate steps
(27:59):
that you can take to move theorganization forward, to not
have that kind of inaction.
I'm so overwhelmed I'm throwingmy hands up and just staying
put, but these are all likereally solid things to keep in
mind and I really appreciatethat kind of callback to the
fundamentals of what we canstill do even when chaos is all
around us.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Yeah, yeah, a hundred percent.
It's revisit your strategyright, get to the mission.
Like, who do we want to talk toand what is most important?
So, like a lot of nonprofitswere chugging along doing their
thing, they had their strategicvision, they had their budget
set, everything was going andthen it feels like the world
kind of exploded.
(28:40):
And that's when people werelike, okay, I'm just gonna stay
here and hold my breath and waitfor it to be over.
But it's actually we linked inthe article that you're
referencing.
We actually did link for profitmarketing article, just because
it was a really interestingsort of like realignment of when
times get tough, like, forexample, the Great Recession,
(29:00):
the brands that decided to holdtheir breath and started to go
away.
People forgot about them.
Then, when times got better,they had already moved on to
another company and that's evenlonger Like, if your
organization survived that toughtime, they're not going to
survive the aftermath or itfeels scary to act.
(29:32):
The inaction, again to thepoint of this article, is more
of a risk, because I want thisrhetoric that we're hearing to
end more than anyone.
I know everybody here does.
Yes, also, as someone who's beenin media for 15 years, all
press is good press, the factthat nonprofits are being
recognized on a national level,even though the rhetoric is bad.
(29:53):
It is this opportunity to standup on a taller soapbox and be
like hey, you're wrong, this iswhat we're really about.
And now you have millions ofpeople paying attention.
Flip the script.
Use this to your advantage.
Increase the amount of noisethat you're making.
Our podcast webinar that we didon this as well, one of the
(30:18):
tips was to be louder, stand upand make more noise, because
more people are listening rightnow, and make those messages
really poignant to the situationthat you're facing.
Right, if you are being targetedby federal funding freezes and
it's impacting your events oryour fundraising initiatives,
the message you should begetting out there is we're still
(30:40):
doing good work.
Help us do that.
Right.
You don't have to take apolitical side.
You don't have to make a stanceor call out any one human
individual, but you can say thatit's gotten harder for us, but
we're not giving up.
Join us.
You know like be grassroots,like empower people, that
helpers high.
Right, there are some peoplelike you and me, megan, that are
(31:01):
just angry right now how we'rebeing treated.
Do something about it.
Right, get up, stand up.
Don't take the low road and getinto some sort of petty fight.
Take the high road and say hey,you're bringing all this
attention to me.
Thanks, I'm going to show youall the good work I'm doing,
right, let's use this as anopportunity rather than be
(31:22):
frightened by it.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
I have to tell you.
Normally, at the end of thepodcast episode, I will ask
people for their one finalclosing piece of advice.
That might be the best onewe've ever gotten Right.
Let's do it together.
Call to action.
I love it.
Yes, Agreed, Agreed.
Fantastic Kim.
As we close up, though, ifsomebody wanted to learn more,
(31:45):
find the Feather blog.
Connect with you.
Where do we do that?
What's the best way to connectwith you guys, with you?
Speaker 2 (31:50):
Where do we do that.
What's the best way to connectwith you guys A hundred percent?
Well, I am just KimberlybottomYep.
B-o-t-t-o-m, like it sounds atFeather, which, by the way, is
spelled without an E on the end.
Yes, without an.
E at the end, tumblr, flickr.
That's when we were founded.
It was back then, so that's whyso Featherco.
But I will say, if you visitthe feather website, which is
(32:17):
just feather f-e-a-t-h-r dot c-oand then you go to our
resources section, sign up forthe good marketing brief.
That is a weekly email that wesend out that has, like, updated
tips.
A lot of times we will megan,use non-profit hub content in
those and link to your articles.
We have other partners thathave really great things like.
Next after is an agency thatalways releases really good data
.
So if you're just kind oflooking to keep a pulse on
what's working in the industry,the Good Marketing Brief is
great, and then that's alsowhere we post our blogs and our
webinars.
A lot of times, webinars can beabout bigger things, like this
(32:40):
time, which was about thesituation that we're dealing
with right now, all the way downto explaining a particular
piece of new marketing tech thatyou might want to consider.
So it's a really broad range ofstuff.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
I would love for you guys to visit the website and
just pick and choose on thoseresources page what's most
helpful to you.
Fantastic Kim, this has beenawesome.
Thank you so much for all ofthe wisdom.
I really appreciate theconversation.
This has been another episodeof the Nonprofit Hub Radio
Podcast.
I'm your host, Megan Spear, andwe'll see you next time you.
Drowning in spreadsheets and manual
processes.
Bonterra Apricot is the smarter, faster way for nonprofits to
manage programs, track outcomesand actually show your impact.
Find out how at BonterraTechcomslash Nonprofit Hub.
Welcome back to the NonprofitHub podcast.
I'm your host, megan Spear.
(00:21):
Joining me today is KimberlyBottom.
If you guys were at CauseCamp,you may remember Kim, who did an
excellent session on findingjoy at work, so we're excited to
have her back now speaking tothe podcast audience here at
Nonprofit Hub.
Kim, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Thanks, megan.
Super excited to be here.
Had such a great time atCauseCamp.
Excited for this year too.
Yes, can't wait to have youguys back.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Yeah, so good.
Yeah, we love our partnershipwith Feather, so okay.
So we are digging in to somebig stuff today and I am excited
Feels like the wrong word, butI think it's going to be a
really good conversation.
Before we dig into kind of thetopic at hand, tell the audience
a little bit about yourself andkind of your journey in the
nonprofit space that brought youhere today.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Yeah, 100%.
I'm probably like a lot of youguys listening where it was not
a direct line into nonprofitwork, right?
None of us kind of woke up whenwe were four and said I want to
work this way, right?
But I actually started as anews producer.
I was a broadcast journalistfor many years and it's just
because I love telling stories.
I love the impact that it hason people.
So, unfortunately, as you allprobably know, stories in local
(01:26):
news are not the best stories totell.
Yeah, they can be really tough.
So I did that for about five orsix years and I realized that,
like, I love telling stories,but I'm going to go find some
better stories, right?
So I was able to actually workfor meetings and events for
nonprofits for another six yearscreating video content, a lot
of same day content duringevents, a lot of year round
(01:46):
content to keep that momentumgoing.
And that's really where I foundmy heart and soul and that's
how I found Feathers.
Because, as a content creator,you create these beautiful
things, right?
You spend so much time craftingthat email, you spend so much
time devising that video,telling that story, and then
nobody sees it and you're like,hello, is anybody out there,
right?
So I think that when I foundFeather and I was like wait,
(02:07):
wait, wait, you're telling methere's like a machine out here
that can, like, use robots toget this in front of the right
people.
Why didn't I know this existedbefore?
So that's really where mypassion for you know, if content
is king, distribution is queenand, um, or you know, maybe the
other way around, distributionis king but anyway but yeah, so
that's kind of how I found myway into nonprofit storytelling,
(02:28):
into, you know, the nonprofitspace in general and now really
just helping nonprofits taketheir stories that they craft
very well on their own and justget them in front of the right
people.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
I love it.
Such a great, a great journey,but also to a great platform.
We love feather, but speakingof our conversation today is
kind of kicking off around ablog that I saw you all put out
recently.
The name of the blog was theCost of Inaction Strategies for
Nonprofits Facing the FundingFreeze.
I think we would all agree thatthis is a really hard time to
(03:00):
be a nonprofit.
There's constant change,there's constant negativity,
we've got all sorts of unknowns,but there was a line in the
blog actually that saiduncertainty doesn't have to mean
inaction, and that was reallythe one that struck me as like,
yes, we have to keep moving, andone of those points I really
appreciated was the inactionitself is a risk.
(03:22):
Yeah, not doing anything is arisk, even though moving
sometimes feels risky.
So let's jump in and talk thereabout what that looks like and
kind of where your thoughts arein that process.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Yeah, 100% that right now, the nonprofit sector
almost feels like under attack abit.
Right, there are very highlevel things that none of us can
control going on affecting thefunds that we need to do, the
good work that we are continuingto do, and even outside of
those actual, you know, federalthings going on.
(03:54):
We've got very powerful peoplesaying largely unfounded things
about how nonprofits operate.
Right Like, a direct quote isthat it's a scam.
And yeah, first of all, let'sjust set the stage that feather
and nonprofit hub and no, nobodybelieves that.
Right Like, nonprofits are nota scam.
(04:15):
Now, as it as with any business,any for-profit business, are
there bad apples out there, ofcourse, but that is not who
nonprofits are about.
So I think that, honestly,right now, the opportunity to
stand up and go like nope,you're wrong is actually a very
powerful moment that we shouldbe capitalizing on.
So it feels scary because thebedrock beneath the organization
(04:37):
, the funding, the good namethat we have seems to be, like I
said, a little bit under attack.
But because it is not founded,we have a great opportunity to
stand up and be like here are myreceipts, here's the good work
that I'm doing.
This is why you should besupporting me and, if anything,
that will actually create thisnet, new wave of interest and
(04:59):
support in what we're doing.
But I absolutely understand thatpeople working day in and day
out at these nonprofits, who arealready stressed, who are
already overworked, who arealready over budget, are going.
Oh my gosh.
There's one more thing now toworry about and navigate through
.
But to that point, adversityisn't new and it's certainly not
(05:21):
going away, right?
Think COVID, think the greatrecession.
Yes, every election cycle ever,right, like these things are
going to continue to happen.
So, having the wherewithal togo all right, change is
inevitable.
Let's learn how to act throughit and how to reevaluate what's
really important and lean intothose things.
(05:43):
That's a powerful muscle todevelop and flex and we have the
opportunity to do that rightnow.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Yeah, I wholeheartedly agree and yes,
for the record, nonprofits arenot a scam.
The fact that we even have tosay that is so absurd to me, but
that's a soapbox for a wholedifferent day.
But so, when it comes to actionthat we can take now, one of
the things that I really lovedabout the blog that you all put
out was that the first call outis around this idea that donor
(06:11):
relationships require nurturing.
They do.
I think we were just talkingwith Nathan Hill on a webinar
about the importance ofretention and managing those
relationships.
I just had a LinkedIn postabout how we have to stop
expecting donors to not behavelike humans and have normal
human emotions and reactions.
Right Things right, but On thesame line of like things I think
(06:35):
are ridiculous that we have tosay, like nonprofits are a scam,
it's the idea thatrelationships have to have
action in them is also somethingthat feels absurd to say.
Right, it's like I can'tbelieve we're still having to
have the same conversation, Iguess.
But but let's talk about thatpoint though.
What does it look like toreally, from, from your
(06:56):
perspective, to really nurturethose relationships?
What is that?
If that's the action we'regoing to take, if that's the
thing that we can do in themidst of the chaos.
What does that look like fromyour perspective?
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Exactly, and you know the tough part about that,
megan, is that it changes.
I wish that we could be like.
This is how donors need to betalked to forever and in
perpetuity, and we'll be good togo, and for all types of donors
across.
Yes, like that's the hardestpart.
It's not that nonprofitprofessionals don't think that
their donors are human, and it'sjust that it does.
(07:27):
It changes so frequently withevery generation.
It feels like every other daythere's a new app or a platform
that we feel like we need to beon to talk to these people and
it's really tough to know whereto reach them.
We have every desire to reachthem, but it's like there's so
many new things popping up.
So I think that's part of thefrustration is that donor
nurturing, donor relationships,means constantly changing your
(07:49):
strategy based on how peoplewant to be talked to, right so?
And the other thing that'sinteresting you know, coming
from a nonprofit marketingplatform, a lot of people don't
associate donor relationships inmarketing, but marketing really
plays a huge role in nurturingdonor relationships.
The good news about that isthere are ways to automate that
(08:12):
nurturing.
That still makes that outreachfeel personal, because that's
the tough part about when youwant to nurture donor
relationship, you want to do itright.
Right, you don't want to sendthem like one email every week.
That's just this general thing,because nobody's going to open
that, they're not going to feelinspired by it.
But the thought of catering mymessage to every single donor I
(08:32):
have is so overwhelming, right,so that would like make me go.
Okay, there's no way I can doall of this manually.
So, in terms of donorrelationships and this is, you
know, I'm kind of putting thefeather lens on it, just because
what we do is we absolutelyhelp people find new donors, but
, especially in a day and agewhere budgets are under really
strict scrutiny right now, it isless expensive to keep the
(08:53):
donors you have than to find newones.
So this is a really importantthing to lean into, and I think
that what we have to kind ofunderstand is that who we're
talking to, like we should notforget our major donors, but
many of them are in a generationthat are aging out.
Right, they're leaving thisearth.
We love them dearly, butthey're not going to be around
(09:14):
forever, and the way they preferto be not only prefer to be
communicated with, but the wayeven that they donate is very
different than this nextgeneration of donors that we are
getting in.
So it's much less about largeamounts status put my name on a
building, like.
We all love those donorsbecause, man, that $50,000, that
$100,000 gift makes an impact.
(09:35):
But in order to get the nextgeneration of those, we got to
start small.
We can't just expect a 25 yearold to want their name on a
building, and the difference Ifeel like really now is that
people of a certain age want Iread an article recently that
was called the helper's highright.
So when you purchase somethingthat is like a consumer-based
(09:55):
product, like a sweater or apair of shoes or whatever, you
get the high of getting thatthing.
You don't get that withdonating.
You give your money and you go.
What did I get out of that?
We need to give them that highand we need to be able to do
that on a large scale, which,again, that's the overwhelming
part of it.
But I think that, especiallyfor nurturing relationships, now
(10:16):
what that means like, at thevery minimum, if you do nothing
else, don't get a donation, senda thank you email and then, 360
days, 365 days later, sendanother call for a donation.
Nurturing doesn't mean that yougot to take them to coffee
every week.
It just means you got to keepyour story and what you're doing
with their funds in front ofthem.
So it can be through emailObviously, we all do email
(10:39):
pretty well right now, right.
But something simple you coulddo is segment and categorize
what people donated for right.
So, like we've got a nonprofitwe did a great case study with
called the Christian Relief Fund, and obviously they do a lot of
really great work in Africa interms of providing clean water
and supporting those communities.
So they have a couple differentoptions.
You can sponsor a child, youcan donate to the Clean Water
(11:02):
Fund.
If a donor you know decides togive to either one of those, you
have to continue to follow upwith that message.
So what Christian Relief Fundhas done really well is segment.
Those audiences know who'sgiving to what initiative and
then they put the right messagesin front of them.
You know a young child drinkingclean water to the people that
donated to the water fund, oryou know the opportunity to
(11:24):
actually meet in person thechild you're sponsoring for the
other sponsors Like these arepower.
That's the high we're lookingfor, that we want to give people
.
So I think, if it comes to ifnurturing donors seems really
overwhelming in these changingtimes with new generations and
new preferences, focus on thebeautiful images that you are
creating for these peoplethrough your good work, like.
(11:45):
What videos, what pictures,what impactful quotes from
people can you provide to themthat makes them go?
Oh my gosh, I got all the warmfuzzies.
Let me donate again.
That's really like the heart ofwhat we should be doing.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
That's such a great call out, and I think too,
especially with some of thoseyounger generations right who
are constantly scrolling socialInstagram, tik TOK.
They're not on Facebook.
I know that that's a hard pillfor a lot of nonprofits just
follow, but that's okay, butokay.
But we are literally inundatedwith these messages, yeah, so if
(12:23):
you think that your one socialmedia post a month is going to
have any sort of place in thatmarket, when they are consuming
literally thousands of messagesa day, that's not going to get
the traction you think it does.
It does not.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Right, it really doesn't.
The actual work of segmenting,creating the messaging, is one
thing, and then that's the otherissue is like right, like, oh
my gosh, where do I put thisstuff?
Like, I get the most reach.
We speak to nonprofits dozensof them every month and they're
all really concerned aboutannoying their audiences.
Right, and I get that RightBecause, again, this is the
(13:02):
kickback that we get a lot.
We have a slogan that saysmarketing is good because
marketing is good.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
It's not some sort of like, it's not some sort of
dirty word that we have towhisper about behind.
Yes, right.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Exactly so.
Marketing is a strategic partof your mission, because it's
like you know, if you're runninga nonprofit without marketing,
it's like having a party and notsending invitations, expecting
people to show up, like you'vegot to tell them that it's going
on.
And in this day and age, toyour point, the amount of time
we spent staring at a screen,the amount of times it takes for
(13:31):
us to really pay attention tothese messages you I would be I
would be impressed if anynonprofit could annoy their
audiences.
It would actually be reallyhard for them to do so.
And I even tell this to thepeople that we talk to every day
.
You know I shop online.
I see these images following mearound everywhere when I check
the news, when I look up arecipe for dinner.
(13:51):
When I see a message from mynonprofit, it is a breath of
fresh air.
It's like I'm not seeing shoesfor once, right.
Like it's reminding me that I'malso spending my money on good
things, not just that next thingthat I don't really need.
So I would really empowernonprofits to look at the
frequency with which they aretalking to people and also
(14:13):
paying attention to thefrequency based on where you're
going to reach them right.
You probably don't want to send15 emails in a week.
That might be a little much forthem to consume.
But, honestly, throughadvertising like, for example,
sure the new unfortunately thenew metric when I was in news,
we used to say that it takesseven times for somebody to hear
or see something before theyactually absorb the message.
(14:35):
It's now 10 to 15.
So if I saw your messages 10times today, I might actually
realize that I actually saw it,maybe not.
It might take more touches thanthat.
So something to consider is thatso many people get trying to
get our attention nowadays thatit's going to feel like a lot
(14:56):
for nonprofits that have notdone this work for years, like
consumer companies have.
Trust me, it's not.
Trust me, it's not.
If anything, you're going toget that 15th message in front
of Kimberly Bottom, who'sscrolling Instagram on her couch
at 8 pm, and that's the momentI'm going to go.
I forgot to donate.
Let me get my credit card Right.
That's what you're chasing andit's going to feel like a lot
(15:17):
coming from you, but on theother end, it's just a little
tap on the shoulder right as Ilive my life.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Well, and that's actually a great segue, because
there's a point in that blogpost that y'all put out about
how brand recognition is thelong game.
Yes, right, and that's.
But those two things have to gohand in hand, and I think
sometimes we get so caught up inlike, well, I did a, I did a
social media blitz and we putout a message every day for a
(15:44):
week and it didn't work.
Okay, but a week is not, it'snot the long game, no, right?
So those kind of messages, thatkind of brand awareness, has to
have that consistency to it oryou are getting lost in the
shuffle.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
It does 100% and that , again, this is where
automation can be your friend,right, like?
I don't want people to hear theword automation and go, oh,
that's impersonal, I'm going tobe that like annoying ad or
email that people don't read.
And it's really not.
Automation is actually payingattention to like, behaviors and
preferences and adjusting basedon that.
(16:22):
So it's actually even morecustomized than you as a human
being are able to provide,because you can't reach into
your computer and see how manytimes somebody clicked that, but
the robots can, right, right.
So that's where automationcomes in and it makes it feel
personalized.
So, for example, within a lot ofemail platforms, but also
within the Feather platform, wehave an email drip sequence, and
(16:43):
drip only means that it'spre-scheduled.
You've got somewhere from likethree to eight emails in a row
and they can either be triggeredjust by the amount of time
that's passed or they can betriggered by a behavior.
So we've got a scenario whereif somebody does not open an
email that was on that list, wemight send them another one with
the subject line said did youget that last message Right?
(17:05):
Oh yeah, moment where thatperson might be like, oh shoot,
no, I didn't.
That was a morning that I feltoverwhelmed and I deleted
everything in my inbox.
So I really want people to dosome research on how automation
can work for you, because thatis going to nurture those donors
and do those things that feelreally overwhelming in a way
that we actually physicallycan't do as humans.
(17:26):
We do need some level oftechnology to help us do that,
and it can be so powerful to theperson on the other end that
feels like oh, they're listening, they're paying attention, they
noticed I didn't open thatemail and they sent another one.
Or they noticed they didn'topen that email twice and they
sent me an advertisement instead, because clearly the inbox is
not where I'm at Right.
So this is just.
(17:47):
It's a great way to caterpreferences in an automated way.
Take that work off your plate.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
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(18:20):
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Today, somewhere along the line, we have associated automation
(18:42):
with that's.
It's too impersonal, it doesn'thave the right tone.
But, like, you set the tone.
Yes, the automation right, youcontrol what the automation does
, and so I think yeah, I thinkthere's a lot of room for growth
in the sector right now forfolks to embrace ways to just
make your life easier.
It's not an impersonal thing,it's not making it work, it's
(19:03):
just there to make your lifeeasier.
I don't have countless hours togo through and figure out,
based on what, let's say, likewhat blog post on our website
somebody has read, what podcastepisode they might be interested
in that I should make surethey're getting an email about
Right.
Right.
I don't have that kind of timefor everybody that comes to our
(19:24):
website and neither does anyonewho's listening to this episode,
right Exactly.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
And just think about your like.
Your website is your digitalstorefront.
If you get this, you know IRL,in real life, this would be your
store that people are going towalk in and walk out of, right?
Yes, this is something where,if somebody walks in and they go
to, you know, the sportinggoods section versus the
homeware section, you're notgoing to serve them a message
about homewares.
(19:48):
So, and that's where you canhave these, these things that
track how people navigate yourwebsite.
What ads do they click or notclick?
What emails do they engage withto understand what that
individual human cares about?
So, megan, if we've gotsomebody visiting this page
listening to podcasts, you'llprobably send them an email
about the next podcast.
The next podcast, yes, but ifyou know they end up on the you
(20:12):
know the cause camp page, thenyou're going to send them a
reminder about early birdregistration and all of that can
be automated, megan.
The human does not need to goin and push a button in order
for that to happen, and thatperson feels like they've been
listened to.
And that is also one other likeimportant designation.
I think that, as nonprofits, weshould be paying attention.
The partnerships we create, thetools we choose to use, look
(20:36):
for nonprofit-specificexperience.
And that's simple.
Because when you're talkingabout marketing and the reason
marketing gets a bad rap isbecause it can feel salesy,
because so many tools andstrategies are focused on
selling something, not onbuilding relationships, which is
what we are doing we don't wantdonors to come once and then
(20:57):
disappear, like in, endlesslyirritated when I purchase
something and it keeps followingme around and says don't miss
out.
I'm like I didn't, I bought it.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
I already did it.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
What do you want from me?
So that's like.
That reasoning is one of thereasons that the feather tool,
for example, is designed toremove somebody from a part of
the funnel or a part of thejourney if they complete an
action.
So I'm no longer servingirrelevant messages to somebody
that already did what I askedthem to do.
And that's a very nonprofitspecific thing, because Nike
(21:29):
doesn't care if it ignores me.
It's got approximately 3billion other people that can go
try to get money from.
We have a very curated list ofpeople who care about what we do
and we've worked very, veryhard to get them to the table.
So again, just when you'redoing research about, hey, how
can I level up my marketing?
What if I want to get intoadvertising?
Or maybe I need, you know, Idon't have a team for that, so
(21:51):
I'm going to look for, like anagency that can help me
part-time or something like that, ask them if they've worked
with nonprofits before.
Ask them if they know how tobuild relationships long-term.
Ask them if they know how eachindividual generation or age
group reacts to nonprofitinitiatives, not consumer
initiatives.
That's really, really important, because it's very different in
(22:11):
terms of how we market to thosepeople.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Absolutely.
I will put a shameless plug inhere that if you are looking for
those types of resources theNonprofit Hub Business Directory
, where you can find Feather andother fantastic organizations
that specifically focus onnonprofit, whether that's for
marketing, fundraising,accounting, et cetera all of
those folks who specificallyserve this sector are on there,
(22:34):
so go check them out.
That's a really great way tofind the exact kind of people
that Kim is talking about.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Thank you for that resource.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
It's helpful.
Everybody go.
It's right there.
It's just curated right for you.
You can find all of thesefriends right there.
Okay, I want to double back,though, to something that you
had said in there about all ofthese platforms.
Right, because I was thinkingabout it when you said it.
Like that can be superoverwhelming.
(23:03):
Oh yeah, when I try to thinkabout, like, do I need a tiktok
strategy?
Do I need a lemonade?
Like, there's so many optionsfrom your perspective, sitting
at feather, understanding that,like, marketing is your game, do
we need all of them?
Do we at least need to like isthere a step we can take?
(23:27):
I heard somebody say one timelike, at least go in and claim
your name and if you don't thinkyou're going to use it, go in
and claim your name so that,down the line, if you decide to
have a strategy around it, great, you at least have that real
estate.
Is that worth?
Is that work worth doing?
Should we be ignoring all thesekinds of ancillary folks?
What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Yeah, you know, I had a very, very wise previous
director of our managed serviceswho is now chasing her dreams
in London, which I'm so about.
Any, I know, right, but she,she always just put it in the
simplest terms and she alwayssays test, don't guess.
So when you are wondering, ohmy gosh, what the heck is
threads, instagram, stop tellingme that I need a threads
account.
I don't even know what that is.
(24:09):
It's stressing me out, right,like this is where, all right,
set aside some time tounderstand what the platform is
about and if you think that thepeople who you care about might
be there, run a small test, likeyou said, go in, claim your
name, throw up a post, see howit does.
You know, maybe cross promotethat a little bit on a more
(24:29):
well-known channel.
All right, I've got a reallygood Facebook following.
You know, I'm going to postsomething on threads and tie it
to my Facebook account and seeif that drives interest.
If you do that for a couplemonths and you don't see a
return on growth I'm not talkingabout oh my gosh, I didn't get
any donations, that's different,right, and we all know that
process takes longer.
But if you're not seeing anincrease in followers if you're
(24:51):
not seeing an increase in webtraffic from that platform to
your website, which, if you arepromoting your website outside
of, obviously, your website,things like UTM codes, which are
like custom URLs, you can putin those posts that say that
will give you the informationthat says you got X amount of
visitors from threads, you got Xamount of visitors from
(25:12):
Facebook, you got X amount ofvisitors from this initiative.
So you know what's actuallypaying off to get people to
click those links and visit yourwebsite.
So if you think there's a newplatform you might be interested
in, test a little bit.
Don't guess, try it.
And if you don't see enoughgrowth and opportunity there to
(25:32):
justify the time spent, move onright.
First of all, who knows how longit's going to be around?
Second of all, it just mightnot be where your audience is,
and that's the hard part, right?
There's so many channels now.
There's a million social mediaposts.
There's all of the websitesthat exist in the world.
There's apps that we can like,serve messages on.
(25:52):
It's like how do I know where?
And this is what.
For example, the a lot ofmarketing technologies, feather
included, will use device IDs asthe driver for how to get in
front of people, rather thanlike the old traditional
marketing.
You would think like all right,now I've got to go and go.
Where are my people?
I think my people might be onthese websites, so I'm going to
(26:13):
go directly through thosewebsites, pay them to serve ads
and hope that people show upthere and see it.
Right, that is no longer needed.
Now we have what is calledprogrammatic and that just means
that you serve your messagesinto an ad exchange.
Think of it like an onlineauction house and that ad
(26:39):
exchange plugs into hundreds ofthousands of, probably millions
of websites that then say thiscell phone visited my website
and it's now on weathercom,checking the weather.
I want to talk to that personthere.
So I'm going to put my littlepaddle up to serve my message on
weathercom and it's going toget placed there because that's
where that device is.
That's the best strategy interms of the channels that are
going to work for you, or interms of the most reach for the
(26:59):
least amount of effort, becauseif you're guessing like, they
might be on Facebook or theymight be on TikTok or they might
be on these websites, youreally don't know unless
somebody clicks the ad andyou're like oh okay, this is a
good channel for us.
But the great thing aboutprogrammatic is we know we're
reaching that person becausethat device visited that site
(27:19):
and we were able to messagethere.
So that's if you're looking for, like, a technology to help
automate, especially digitaladvertising, look for something
that has programmaticadvertising in it so you don't
have to do the ad buying, buying.
You don't have to worry aboutthe ad buying and you know your
message is getting in front ofpeople that have shown an
interest in some way so good.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
I love it okay.
So I think my favorite part ofthis whole episode is that these
are all what I would say islike reminders of why basics and
fundamentals are important,right, especially when, like
going back to the full circlemoment, especially when things
feel chaotic there are truthsthat are like legitimate steps
(27:59):
that you can take to move theorganization forward, to not
have that kind of inaction.
I'm so overwhelmed I'm throwingmy hands up and just staying
put, but these are all likereally solid things to keep in
mind and I really appreciatethat kind of callback to the
fundamentals of what we canstill do even when chaos is all
around us.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Yeah, yeah, a hundred percent.
It's revisit your strategyright, get to the mission.
Like, who do we want to talk toand what is most important?
So, like a lot of nonprofitswere chugging along doing their
thing, they had their strategicvision, they had their budget
set, everything was going andthen it feels like the world
kind of exploded.
(28:40):
And that's when people werelike, okay, I'm just gonna stay
here and hold my breath and waitfor it to be over.
But it's actually we linked inthe article that you're
referencing.
We actually did link for profitmarketing article, just because
it was a really interestingsort of like realignment of when
times get tough, like, forexample, the Great Recession,
(29:00):
the brands that decided to holdtheir breath and started to go
away.
People forgot about them.
Then, when times got better,they had already moved on to
another company and that's evenlonger Like, if your
organization survived that toughtime, they're not going to
survive the aftermath or itfeels scary to act.
(29:32):
The inaction, again to thepoint of this article, is more
of a risk, because I want thisrhetoric that we're hearing to
end more than anyone.
I know everybody here does.
Yes, also, as someone who's beenin media for 15 years, all
press is good press, the factthat nonprofits are being
recognized on a national level,even though the rhetoric is bad.
(29:53):
It is this opportunity to standup on a taller soapbox and be
like hey, you're wrong, this iswhat we're really about.
And now you have millions ofpeople paying attention.
Flip the script.
Use this to your advantage.
Increase the amount of noisethat you're making.
Our podcast webinar that we didon this as well, one of the
(30:18):
tips was to be louder, stand upand make more noise, because
more people are listening rightnow, and make those messages
really poignant to the situationthat you're facing.
Right, if you are being targetedby federal funding freezes and
it's impacting your events oryour fundraising initiatives,
the message you should begetting out there is we're still
(30:40):
doing good work.
Help us do that.
Right.
You don't have to take apolitical side.
You don't have to make a stanceor call out any one human
individual, but you can say thatit's gotten harder for us, but
we're not giving up.
Join us.
You know like be grassroots,like empower people, that
helpers high.
Right, there are some peoplelike you and me, megan, that are
(31:01):
just angry right now how we'rebeing treated.
Do something about it.
Right, get up, stand up.
Don't take the low road and getinto some sort of petty fight.
Take the high road and say hey,you're bringing all this
attention to me.
Thanks, I'm going to show youall the good work I'm doing,
right, let's use this as anopportunity rather than be
(31:22):
frightened by it.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
I have to tell you.
Normally, at the end of thepodcast episode, I will ask
people for their one finalclosing piece of advice.
That might be the best onewe've ever gotten Right.
Let's do it together.
Call to action.
I love it.
Yes, Agreed, Agreed.
Fantastic Kim.
As we close up, though, ifsomebody wanted to learn more,
(31:45):
find the Feather blog.
Connect with you.
Where do we do that?
What's the best way to connectwith you guys, with you?
Speaker 2 (31:50):
Where do we do that.
What's the best way to connectwith you guys A hundred percent?
Well, I am just KimberlybottomYep.
B-o-t-t-o-m, like it sounds atFeather, which, by the way, is
spelled without an E on the end.
Yes, without an.
E at the end, tumblr, flickr.
That's when we were founded.
It was back then, so that's whyso Featherco.
But I will say, if you visitthe feather website, which is
(32:17):
just feather f-e-a-t-h-r dot c-oand then you go to our
resources section, sign up forthe good marketing brief.
That is a weekly email that wesend out that has, like, updated
tips.
A lot of times we will megan,use non-profit hub content in
those and link to your articles.
We have other partners thathave really great things like.
Next after is an agency thatalways releases really good data
.
So if you're just kind oflooking to keep a pulse on
what's working in the industry,the Good Marketing Brief is
great, and then that's alsowhere we post our blogs and our
webinars.
A lot of times, webinars can beabout bigger things, like this
(32:40):
time, which was about thesituation that we're dealing
with right now, all the way downto explaining a particular
piece of new marketing tech thatyou might want to consider.
So it's a really broad range ofstuff.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
I would love for you guys to visit the website and
just pick and choose on thoseresources page what's most
helpful to you.
Fantastic Kim, this has beenawesome.
Thank you so much for all ofthe wisdom.
I really appreciate theconversation.
This has been another episodeof the Nonprofit Hub Radio
Podcast.
I'm your host, Megan Spear, andwe'll see you next time you.
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