May 30, 2025 • 29 mins
Feeling exhausted from chasing the latest fundraising trends with little to show for it? In this insightful conversation with Isaac Ezell, CEO of Seed Fundraisers, we explore what truly drives sustainable nonprofit growth. Drawing from his 13+ years scaling Hope International from $5 million to $38.5 million, Isaac reveals that successful organizations focus on just one or two core strategies—rather than trying to do everything. He outlines five primary fundraising approaches and encourages nonprofits to align with their strengths and donor base. Most importantly, he highlights the relational heart of fundraising, where storytelling and listening build deeper, mission-driven partnerships.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Drowning in spreadsheets and manual
processes.
Bonterra Apricot is the smarter, faster way for nonprofits to
manage programs, track outcomesand actually show your impact.
Find out how at bonterratechcomslash nonprofithub.
Welcome back to the NonprofitHub Podcast.
I'm your host, megan Spear,along for another episode today.
(00:23):
I'm very excited to have IsaacEzell with me.
He's the CEO of SeedFundraisers, which I, full
disclosure, do also work alittle bit with Seed Fundraisers
as a coach, and we'll dig intoall of that.
But I just have reallyappreciated so much of the
wisdom that Isaac has had toshare with our team at Seed, so
I am thrilled to have him hereand have you guys get to learn
(00:45):
from him as well too.
Isaac, welcome in.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Thanks so much, megan , and goodness, I've been
watching from the sidelines formonths and just excited to spend
a little time in front of themic with you, talking with this
group of people.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Yeah, I'm excited.
So by way of introduction, giveus a little bit about kind of
your background in nonprofit,what led us to hear this
conversation today.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think most folks in thenonprofit space I guess this is
broader than that too butcertainly in fundraising, which
is where my career has been, wehave an origin story.
That's not necessarily likestraight in an arrow, like point
A to point B, necessarilystraight in an arrow like point
A to point B, and I graduatedfrom college thinking that I was
going to work in studiossetting up microphones and
(01:30):
helping musicians get the bestout of a song that they'd
written.
What I ended up doing was alittle bit of that and then ran
into a mentor and this guydeserves every shout out.
His name is Dick Giggie.
If you live in the Nashvillearea where I live, you've heard
his name if you're in thenonprofit or social enterprise
space.
But he turned me on to the ideaof using that same creative
(01:50):
skill and aptitude towardsfundraising and towards business
models, towards socialentrepreneurship, and so that
was about 14 years ago now.
Actually it was a little longerthan that, but about 14 years
ago an organization heintroduced me to great
organization I still supportcalled Hope International.
(02:12):
They do Christ-centeredmicrofinance so they help folks
start tiny businesses all overthe world.
I started, I applied, heendorsed me for the role.
I got a job as essentially amajor gift fundraiser, but doing
the work of fundraising, thatis, going around networking,
inviting people to give, here inNashville and at the time it
(02:34):
was a lot of other states too.
But as Hope International grew,when I started, hope was about
$5 million in annual revenuemillion in annual revenue and
over the 13 years that I wasthere we grew to 38 and a half
million dollars in revenue.
So we grew a lot.
At the beginning I was thatfrontline fundraiser and
absolutely loved the role atHope.
(02:55):
We had a unique culture wherewe were focused on.
It felt especially unique atthe time.
Maybe it's less unique today.
I hope it's less unique todayWhereas fundraisers we were
setting out and saying, hey, wewant to care about individuals
who are giving to ourorganization or might give.
We want to invite people whoare passionate about this work
deeper into it.
But we're not focused on justpushing buttons to create a
(03:17):
transaction or treating peoplein a way that we wouldn't feel
great about right, and so it wasa great place to grow up as a
fundraiser, as a lot of us whohave been at Hope would say, and
it was a great place to yeah,to really learn that trade.
So I spent 13 years there,various different roles,
starting in that frontline space, but then by the end of my time
(03:40):
there was leading strategy,fundraising strategy and had
been for several years andworking with all the kind of
unique niches of fundraising,like an investment fund that we
started or internationalfundraising in Hong Kong or
other countries.
So, anyways, it was a reallyfun time.
That's where I got the majorityof my experience in this space,
really most of it.
(04:00):
But about five years into thatI started doing coaching on the
side, started helpingorganizations that didn't have
the same, were a little bit notquite as far along as Hope was
at the time, and saying, hey,how can I help, how can we, how
can I support?
I did that with Seed, thisgroup that you and I are both a
part of, really because thefounder of Seed and a close
(04:21):
friend of mine, dan Reed, andyours, dan Reed, was somebody
who had coached me and so and Ijust came.
I don't like to do things alone.
I don't know there are peoplethat like to do things alone,
but that's not me.
I love to do things with otherpeople.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
I am not one of them, but I respect that there are
those people in the world.
I don't know many of them, butI am not one.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Exactly, and so I did it with Dan and we got better
together as time went on.
And so eight of my 13 years atHope I was also doing coaching
on the side of other nonprofitsthat were a little behind us in
terms of revenue raise Maybe notbehind us in terms of number of
years serving or other kinds ofthings and just took that
experience that I had andinvested it forward into other
organizations.
(05:05):
A year ago I stepped out ofHope.
It was time Hope had grown tothe place where it was.
It did not need me and itprobably didn't need me for a
few years, honestly, because itis a large team, 70 or so folks
raising that $38.5 million.
But I just felt drawn andcalled into this work of helping
(05:26):
others accelerate their abilityto use the skills that I'd
learned to help them jumpforward, leap forward in their
fundraising space and hopefullyavoid some of the mistakes that
we made Lots of mistakes that wemade over those 13 years in
growing hopes fundraising Nice.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Well, that's great.
So there is, honestly, withyour depth of knowledge, a
breadth of things we could diginto.
But something that you and Ihave been talking about within
the seed coaching community andjust in general in the space, is
this idea of where we are, Ithink, given where the state of
nonprofit-profit is right.
It's been a crazy, crazy coupleof months for everybody.
(06:11):
Um, I think more often than notwe have this, this group of
people right now, who arelooking for the quick fix,
looking maybe for the magicbullet of especially for folks
who might have been reallyheavily grant funded, who are
now having to diversify andthey're having to figure out
(06:31):
strategies that they've neverdone before.
They're getting taken in, Ifeel like, by a lot of these
kind of maybe quick fix by oursoftware and it will fix all of
your problems, right?
You and I stand in agreementthat we don't love that approach
.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
I'm not here for the snake oil salesman kind of
nonsense, right but I'd love tokind of dig in and hear your
thoughts, isaac, on if somebodyfinds themselves in that
situation right, where maybe thefunding plan needs to change or
(07:10):
we have some big plans and wethought we were going to be able
to do these kind of activitiesand now we can't.
Where do we start?
That's not that, because it'sso easy to get taken in, I feel
like, by the bright and shinyright and everybody wants to
point squirrel over here, right,how do we pause and take a step
and evaluate a, what do weactually need?
And B, how do we move forward?
(07:34):
Because there are greatconsultants out there, but how
do we evaluate that forourselves?
So let's kind of dig in fromthat perspective.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Yeah, absolutely, oh, man, I have so much to say
about this particular categoryof work.
I think in general, we look forsilver bullets because it is
this promise of magic.
Right, like we want magic inour worlds and in our lives, we
want to, like, get the outcomewithout the effort That's-.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
We all want that, was it Home Office Depot or Office
Max or something that had theeasy button staples.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Yeah, exactly, yeah, we all want that.
And I think to like the versionI'm talking about here are the
rephrasing of that is from somework that Andy Crouch has done.
In thinking about, what is itthat kind of attempts us to
short circuit the hard workthat's necessary?
Now, that doesn't mean that wedon't like do hard work, for
(08:27):
wrong reasons sometimes or tothe wrong end.
But the first principles, Ithink, are thinking more
specifically about the bigimpact without a lot of work, if
there's a promise that you'rehearing, whether that is a CRM
system, whether that is like thenewest, latest book or person
(08:47):
you follow on LinkedIn and again, there are great people in both
of those places.
I'm not saying every person whoposts on LinkedIn is terrible.
I do it and you do it right,and in fact, it's important for
us to do that so that there'smore voices in the ecosystem
that are not just offering asilver bullet, but we also get
this from our boards orourselves when we go hey, if I
(09:10):
just get this directordevelopment, all my problems
will be over, if I could justfind the right person.
So it's not just people tryingto sell us things, it's also the
ways that we dupe ourselvesinto thinking like here's the
magic solution that I can, andwe have a lot of common ones.
We see people in the ecosystem,other nonprofits, doing
(09:31):
something.
We think, oh, that will solvemy problems, and I think the
first sniff test is like arethey promising magic?
Is somebody here promising memagic?
That is, the outcomes withoutthe effort.
The second that I like to do inthinking about and this is how
I evaluate coaches that join theseed platform too is I like to
(09:52):
look and see what real lifeexperience they have with
fundraising.
Did they work at a nonprofit orwith an organization that
worked alongside nonprofitshelping them with fundraising?
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
If that's not there, then I'm going to be very
skeptical in listening to theiradvice.
There's a recent book that cameout and I won't name the author
or and maybe it's actuallygreat advice.
I haven't read the book, butlooking at this person's just
LinkedIn profile, I immediatelywas like, okay, I'm going to be
skeptical.
There's zero, zero referencesto being in a nonprofit or until
(10:26):
they started a consultancyfocused on fundraising, and so
that's the second thing I lookfor is just look at the history.
Is there some time spent?
Is there work that they didbehind the plow of doing the
work of fundraising that theydid behind the plow of doing the
work of fundraising?
Or are they trying to takesomething from outside the
(10:47):
fundraising world and apply itwithout doing the necessary work
of having lived in thefundraising space as well?
So those are a couple of thingsthat just jump off the top.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
No, I think that's a really good call out because
it's so easy.
I feel like to get suckered inby the new and shiny right, but
taking in anything else, wewould take time to do our own
due diligence.
That's right, we would take timeto do the research and figure
it out.
And so, coming at any platformdecision, consultant, decision,
(11:17):
any of those things has to havethat same due diligence to it,
and that research is critical, Iguess I wonder.
And that research is critical,I guess I wonder and something
you and I have talked about toois it's really easy to go chase
the new and shiny if you don'tunderstand where you're headed
(11:38):
by yourselves internally.
There's not some sort ofinternal strategy that's guiding
what you're doing.
The consultant, the tools, thecoach, the new director of
development, all of those thingsare tools to the strategy.
But if that piece is missing,then you are going to be more
subject to the whims ofwhatever's floating around.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
It's almost like a cart before the horse kind of.
Yeah, no, and I mean I thinkthat adds on to your valuation
criteria, right?
I think there's an elementalaspect of nonprofits that kind
of plays into this too.
As nonprofits, we essentiallyhave two things two
organizations, two paths forresources that we're managing.
(12:22):
One is that programs andoperations side of the work of
providing some help, providingsome service, providing some
thing that is not provided inthe normal marketplace, and then
the other is a fundraisingoperation and, depending on
where you came from or how youcame to the work or what you
enjoy the most, you probablyspend more time or have more
energy on one side or the other.
(12:44):
That I bet lots of folkslistening to me right now are
like oh yeah, I'm the programsperson or I'm the executive
director who is the like thefundraiser.
I like, I love doing that andthe programs.
I get annoyed, like when I haveto get into the details on that
one, and that's fundamentallydifficult and they're not
necessarily fundamentallyaligned to things Like donors
(13:08):
might have different ideas aboutwhat impact they want to have
on your constituency.
On the other side, those whoare being helped, those clients,
those end users, and so there'ssome, and we could talk about
this perhaps on a futureconversation about those
tensions.
But because of that, you may belooking for quick fixes on both
(13:28):
sides of the organization andgoing how can I just make this
less painful the fundraisingside so that I can focus more
effort on this program side, andvice versa.
And but the reality is firstagain like we need to step back
when it comes to fundraising,and this is something you and I
(13:48):
have talked about, like youmentioned.
But in determining how you'regoing to grow fundraising, in
particular, how you're going tohave a sustainable fundraising
operation, it's incrediblyimportant to focus and this is
like one of the things that wefocused on at Seed.
It's an insight that's beencorroborated through some
(14:09):
research that the Bridgespangroup did and presented through
this Stanford Social InnovationReview, that organizations that
actually scale in theirfundraising.
They do that not by doingeverything, not by doing Giving
Tuesday and the end of the yeargiving letter and the big
fundraising gala.
And, which is the other side ofthe spectrum, right, we have
(14:30):
silver bullets and we haveburned out executive directors,
like some of them have, likethey're burned out and that's
why they want to go over here tothe silver bullet, cause
they're trying to do all of thethings.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Right.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
But really at Seed, what we coach our folks on and
what I'd recommend you doregardless if you work with Seed
or with any other organization,a coaching or consulting
organization, or do this on yourown is to step back and say
what is the one or twostrategies we're going to focus
on?
Again, that same research fromStanford showed that the
organizations that focused onone or two strategies they were
(15:04):
actually reliably able to scaleimpact and, by impact,
fundraising revenue.
On that side, the researchdoesn't show those who took that
risky step of saying we're onlygoing to do fundraising events
and major gift fundraising.
It's a risky step and so thatmeans some folks probably failed
too.
But what is nonprofit work ifit's not stepping into a risky
(15:29):
thing to serve others, tosacrifice some of our own
influence or our own resourcesor our own renown to help
somebody who needs support andhelp, who needs a barrier lifted
, who needs something to helpthem move forward from a
situation that they're stuck in?
Speaker 1 (15:53):
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(16:14):
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So I was in a conversation theother day with an executive
director who was, I think, inthe exact spot that you're
talking about super burned outthere.
They do all of these differentthings and they just keep doing
(16:36):
them because it's it and it'sthat line that I hate of like,
this is what we've always done.
This is what we've always done.
Like, okay, but and I, I it wasmaybe a risky statement on my
part, but my statement was yes,but the definition of insanity
is doing the same thing over andover again and expecting
different results.
Right, if you want to continueto grow and you want to scale
(16:59):
that impact, we can't continueto do the things we've always
done.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
There has to be something different, and so I
think maybe that's a tensionthat intrigues me is we have to
do something different, but Idon't want to jump, I don't want
to just chase squirrels withnew and shiny.
So, like, how do we evaluatewhat's the rubric that's in
(17:24):
place to evaluate what thingswe're doing are working versus
where those gaps are, that weshould like look at a new
strategy or invest in a newtechnology or something along
those lines?
Speaker 2 (17:37):
that's, I think, the tension that intrigues me yeah,
well, and I'll jump in and likegive folks like a place to start
.
So.
So a place to start is toidentify.
So, within the withinfundraising strategies again, we
use like words, like strategy,which have a million different
definitions at times, right, butwhen we think at seed, and what
(18:01):
I'd invite others to thinkabout when it comes to
fundraising strategies, is thatat the core of a fundraising
strategy is how we areactivating generosity.
There are two things in commonwith any fundraising
relationship we need to havestorytelling.
We need to be telling stories,whether that's in a personal
relationship or that's from amass communications platform or
(18:22):
it's an event.
We need to be telling stories.
We need to listen too.
Those are the two things thatare in every fundraising
relationship.
There's a third that's a littledifferent, based on which
strategy you choose or you focuson, and that is how you
activate generosity, what is theform that it takes.
And so, okay, that's a lot ofwords.
(18:43):
What I'll say is if you canchoose one or two forms of
activating generosity.
So, with annual giving, it'smass communications.
You're activating generositythrough that letter that you
send, through the TVadvertisement or, more likely,
for the folks listening today,through the email that you're
sending.
There's major gifts whereyou're activating generosity
through personal relationship,people that you get to know
(19:05):
personally their story and theyget to know yours and you invite
them into that relationship.
Events is where you'reactivating generosity through a
transformational experience atits best, or at least an
entertaining experience thatyou've curated for the donor
Through grant writing it's atechnical writing and reporting
process and through corporatesponsorship, it is activating
(19:27):
generosity through an alignedbrand invitation saying, hey,
your brand benefits in this way,our brand benefits in this way,
by being affiliated with eachother.
This is the NFL, the NationalFootball League, doing the pink
jerseys once a year and saying,hey, we support breast cancer.
The breast cancer nonprofitsthen receive a large gift as a
(19:48):
result of that.
And so if you could choose oneor two of those a lot of the
same activities that you'redoing, whether it's an event
that you do once a year, a lotof the same activities that
you're doing, whether it's anevent that you do once a year or
it's the direct mail thatyou're doing those things can
fit within a strategy ofactivating generosity in a
specific way.
And I'll just give you one quickexample.
So say, you're doing a bigannual gala every year, but you
(20:10):
decide you don't really want tobe focused on growing the number
of events, to grow the numberof fundraising, because that's
how that works Right, butinstead really major gifts is
the thing that you want to befocused on Lots of vendors or
(20:31):
other people that are involvedin that process, design work,
invitations, all the things andturn it instead into a small
gathering or a set of smallgatherings in people's homes
where they're inviting people tohear about the work for the
first time.
But it's in a much moreconducive space for personal
relationship to grow, and sothat personal relationship is
(20:52):
what the invitation is out of.
The small gathering it's not.
Hey, will you give towards ourgoal of $30,000 tonight it's.
Will you engage and have ameeting with myself, the
executive director of theorganization?
I'd love to share more, ifyou're interested.
The strategy first, or choosehow we're going to activate
(21:16):
generosity.
Then we can step back and thinkabout how all those tactics
we're doing can bow down, cansubmit themselves to the focus
of the strategy.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
That's so good.
That's so good.
I love it.
There is one piece that yousaid in there that I want to
just go back and highlight.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
And that is the fact that relationships require
listening as well.
I think far too often we getstuck in this idea of just
saying and speaking right orjust email blasting and direct
mailing, and let me just tellyou, and tell you, and tell you
that we do lose sight of theactual relationship aspect of
(21:55):
fundraising, that these are realpeople, not some sort of human
ATM machine, but they are realpeople with real feelings and
real things to say and opinions.
And so I love the call out.
There was, there was so muchwisdom in what you just shared,
but I really like that call outand reminder as well.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
Well, yeah, and I think it.
Perhaps this is a.
We're seeding moreconversations here, megan.
I'd love to just keep havingthem, but I think I think one of
the important pieces inthinking about relationships is
what kind of relationships youwant to have with your donors.
And the reality is that arelationship that is
transactional, relationship thatis transactional, that actually
(22:34):
works I wish it didn't.
I wish it didn't work.
I know To like raise money in areally transactional fashion,
cause I don't feel like it'sgood for people that are giving.
I don't feel like it's good forthe nonprofit that's receiving
to the same degree that it iswhen a relationship is missional
, meaning that it's two-sided,it's a partnership.
(22:54):
And even in a annual givingsetting where you might be doing
a direct mail piece, what arethe spaces and the ways that
you're creating a pathway forlistening back to the
organization?
There are obvious ones the donot mail list.
You know that is a form of yeah, yeah, do not email me, or mail
(23:15):
me ever again.
But we want to be moreproactive than that, and there
are plenty of tactics for that,and ones that are specifically
focused are helpful for thesmaller nonprofit as well.
It doesn't mean you need tohave big focus groups or pay a
marketing research group to dothose pieces.
But you can pause and listenand respond to that relative of
(23:38):
yours that's like, seriously,you sent another email, or when
you said it this way, I thoughtyou meant this instead of that
and listen proactively withinthose situations.
And it matters how we listen,regardless of the strategy.
We need to listen if we canfind it in ourselves through a
posture of humility as well.
(23:59):
It's easy to approach thatadvice either from a position of
like, thinking of ourselves asbetter than the donor.
Ooh, that's painful to hear andthink about.
But often those of us workingin the nonprofit space we're
kind of like, hear and thinkabout.
But often those of us workingin the nonprofit space we're
kind of like we kind of have itall together.
(24:20):
And those outside the nonprofitspace, they're working for
money Wait why?
And that kind of can be apoison to our relationship with
the donor.
To make it to where we aretreating them in a way that
maybe we wouldn't be if wethought of them as that full
enlivened person that you weredescribing before, megan.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
Yeah, I think that's great Good.
Oh man, such good stuff.
I want to keep thisconversation going, but I know
that nobody listens to like atwo hour long podcast.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
We will definitely have to have you back, but in
the meantime, if somebody wantedto connect with you, learn more
about you or your work, orlearn more about Seed and what
Seed Fundraisers is all about,how would we do those things?
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Yeah, absolutely.
Luckily, there aren't that manyIsaac Ezels in the world, so
you can find me pretty easilywith a Google search or a
LinkedIn search.
You know, slash Isaac Ezel.
But if you want to hear alittle bit more about Seed, or
look at what we offer, we workespecially, or particularly,
(25:22):
with early stage nonprofits thatare trying to accelerate and
scale their fundraisingoperation.
We've described them a littlebit you and I have Megan over
the course of our conversationwhere we've talked about they're
feeling burnt out.
They're feeling like they'vedone as much as they can on
their own.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
And they just need a sage.
They just need a wise someoneto come alongside them.
It's not just me.
It's me and 17, 18 othercoaches who have direct
fundraising experience at Seed.
So you can take a look at thatwebsite, seedfundraiserscom and
reach out to us there if we canbe helpful.
I'm the one who picks up thephone if you shoot a message to
(25:56):
us.
So I'm happy to have a 30minute conversation with just
about anybody, and if we can behelpful, I'll point you to one
of our coaches.
If we can't, I'll point.
I'll encourage you on your wayand say you're doing great.
You don't need any help yet,Wouldn't?
Speaker 1 (26:10):
that be a nice call.
No, you're good, there'snothing you could do better.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Well, that was they absolutely happen, yeah, I think
.
Or here's another group who canhelp better at your size and
scale and stage and what you'retrying to accomplish.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Great as we wrap up, this is the question I've been
asking everyone so far in thisseason.
If you were speaking directlyto, let's say, maybe the
executive director of anonprofit or director of
development, chief developmentofficer, those kind of high
level leaders, what would beyour one piece of advice or
encouragement right now in thisseason, like what's the takeaway
(26:47):
for you?
Speaker 2 (26:49):
Yeah, oh man.
There's so much I think thatcould be said, and I'm thinking
of lots of different individualsituations that I'm aware of,
and I'm sure there's so manymore.
For some of you listening tothis podcast, what you really
need to hear is you're doinggood work.
You know you're doing good workconnected to a mission that is
(27:10):
impacting your community, yourworld, your nation, and, like,
take a breath, like receive thatencouragement.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
I don't know you individually, but I know you're
out there and you're doing thatgood work.
The second I'd say is, for someof you, you're feeling frenzied
.
You're feeling like that burnedout person at the end of their
rope.
Before it's too late, take abreak, yeah, take a breath.
Think about how yourmotivations might have been
(27:46):
getting twisted, how your focusmight not be on quite the right
thing, not to say that everybodywho's in that situation it's
their fault or anything likethat.
But I found in my own journey ofburnout that what I really
needed to do is step back andhave enough space and time to
evaluate my own emotions,evaluate my own presence and
(28:07):
evaluate the focus that I had.
And in that process I hope youidentify that, hey, we need to
be more focused.
If it's fundraising that's'scausing that, that burnout, or
on the program side too, hey, wecan't solve everything for this
constituent, but what we can dois help them with this one
thing or this handful of things.
And whenever we bite off morethan is meant for us or that was
(28:30):
given for us to do, it can beso hard to try to live and walk
that out, and there are thingsfor you to do to the person
who's listening here.
There are things for others todo, and it's okay to let others
do too.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
That's a good word.
I love it, isaac.
Thank you so much.
This has been a fantasticconversation.
We will definitely have to pickit back up, but in the meantime
, certainly feel free to reachout to Seed or Isaac if you have
some questions about anythingthat he had to share.
So thank you for joining us.
We appreciate all that wisdom.
Thanks for being here.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
Oh, thanks, megan, and thanks to everybody
listening.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
This has been another episode of the Nonprofit Hub
Radio Podcast.
I'm your host, Megan Spear, andwe'll see you next time.
Drowning in spreadsheets and manual
processes.
Bonterra Apricot is the smarter, faster way for nonprofits to
manage programs, track outcomesand actually show your impact.
Find out how at bonterratechcomslash nonprofithub.
Welcome back to the NonprofitHub Podcast.
I'm your host, megan Spear,along for another episode today.
(00:23):
I'm very excited to have IsaacEzell with me.
He's the CEO of SeedFundraisers, which I, full
disclosure, do also work alittle bit with Seed Fundraisers
as a coach, and we'll dig intoall of that.
But I just have reallyappreciated so much of the
wisdom that Isaac has had toshare with our team at Seed, so
I am thrilled to have him hereand have you guys get to learn
(00:45):
from him as well too.
Isaac, welcome in.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Thanks so much, megan , and goodness, I've been
watching from the sidelines formonths and just excited to spend
a little time in front of themic with you, talking with this
group of people.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Yeah, I'm excited.
So by way of introduction, giveus a little bit about kind of
your background in nonprofit,what led us to hear this
conversation today.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think most folks in thenonprofit space I guess this is
broader than that too butcertainly in fundraising, which
is where my career has been, wehave an origin story.
That's not necessarily likestraight in an arrow, like point
A to point B, necessarilystraight in an arrow like point
A to point B, and I graduatedfrom college thinking that I was
going to work in studiossetting up microphones and
(01:30):
helping musicians get the bestout of a song that they'd
written.
What I ended up doing was alittle bit of that and then ran
into a mentor and this guydeserves every shout out.
His name is Dick Giggie.
If you live in the Nashvillearea where I live, you've heard
his name if you're in thenonprofit or social enterprise
space.
But he turned me on to the ideaof using that same creative
(01:50):
skill and aptitude towardsfundraising and towards business
models, towards socialentrepreneurship, and so that
was about 14 years ago now.
Actually it was a little longerthan that, but about 14 years
ago an organization heintroduced me to great
organization I still supportcalled Hope International.
(02:12):
They do Christ-centeredmicrofinance so they help folks
start tiny businesses all overthe world.
I started, I applied, heendorsed me for the role.
I got a job as essentially amajor gift fundraiser, but doing
the work of fundraising, thatis, going around networking,
inviting people to give, here inNashville and at the time it
(02:34):
was a lot of other states too.
But as Hope International grew,when I started, hope was about
$5 million in annual revenuemillion in annual revenue and
over the 13 years that I wasthere we grew to 38 and a half
million dollars in revenue.
So we grew a lot.
At the beginning I was thatfrontline fundraiser and
absolutely loved the role atHope.
(02:55):
We had a unique culture wherewe were focused on.
It felt especially unique atthe time.
Maybe it's less unique today.
I hope it's less unique todayWhereas fundraisers we were
setting out and saying, hey, wewant to care about individuals
who are giving to ourorganization or might give.
We want to invite people whoare passionate about this work
deeper into it.
But we're not focused on justpushing buttons to create a
(03:17):
transaction or treating peoplein a way that we wouldn't feel
great about right, and so it wasa great place to grow up as a
fundraiser, as a lot of us whohave been at Hope would say, and
it was a great place to yeah,to really learn that trade.
So I spent 13 years there,various different roles,
starting in that frontline space, but then by the end of my time
(03:40):
there was leading strategy,fundraising strategy and had
been for several years andworking with all the kind of
unique niches of fundraising,like an investment fund that we
started or internationalfundraising in Hong Kong or
other countries.
So, anyways, it was a reallyfun time.
That's where I got the majorityof my experience in this space,
really most of it.
(04:00):
But about five years into thatI started doing coaching on the
side, started helpingorganizations that didn't have
the same, were a little bit notquite as far along as Hope was
at the time, and saying, hey,how can I help, how can we, how
can I support?
I did that with Seed, thisgroup that you and I are both a
part of, really because thefounder of Seed and a close
(04:21):
friend of mine, dan Reed, andyours, dan Reed, was somebody
who had coached me and so and Ijust came.
I don't like to do things alone.
I don't know there are peoplethat like to do things alone,
but that's not me.
I love to do things with otherpeople.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
I am not one of them, but I respect that there are
those people in the world.
I don't know many of them, butI am not one.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Exactly, and so I did it with Dan and we got better
together as time went on.
And so eight of my 13 years atHope I was also doing coaching
on the side of other nonprofitsthat were a little behind us in
terms of revenue raise Maybe notbehind us in terms of number of
years serving or other kinds ofthings and just took that
experience that I had andinvested it forward into other
organizations.
(05:05):
A year ago I stepped out ofHope.
It was time Hope had grown tothe place where it was.
It did not need me and itprobably didn't need me for a
few years, honestly, because itis a large team, 70 or so folks
raising that $38.5 million.
But I just felt drawn andcalled into this work of helping
(05:26):
others accelerate their abilityto use the skills that I'd
learned to help them jumpforward, leap forward in their
fundraising space and hopefullyavoid some of the mistakes that
we made Lots of mistakes that wemade over those 13 years in
growing hopes fundraising Nice.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Well, that's great.
So there is, honestly, withyour depth of knowledge, a
breadth of things we could diginto.
But something that you and Ihave been talking about within
the seed coaching community andjust in general in the space, is
this idea of where we are, Ithink, given where the state of
nonprofit-profit is right.
It's been a crazy, crazy coupleof months for everybody.
(06:11):
Um, I think more often than notwe have this, this group of
people right now, who arelooking for the quick fix,
looking maybe for the magicbullet of especially for folks
who might have been reallyheavily grant funded, who are
now having to diversify andthey're having to figure out
(06:31):
strategies that they've neverdone before.
They're getting taken in, Ifeel like, by a lot of these
kind of maybe quick fix by oursoftware and it will fix all of
your problems, right?
You and I stand in agreementthat we don't love that approach
.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
I'm not here for the snake oil salesman kind of
nonsense, right but I'd love tokind of dig in and hear your
thoughts, isaac, on if somebodyfinds themselves in that
situation right, where maybe thefunding plan needs to change or
(07:10):
we have some big plans and wethought we were going to be able
to do these kind of activitiesand now we can't.
Where do we start?
That's not that, because it'sso easy to get taken in, I feel
like, by the bright and shinyright and everybody wants to
point squirrel over here, right,how do we pause and take a step
and evaluate a, what do weactually need?
And B, how do we move forward?
(07:34):
Because there are greatconsultants out there, but how
do we evaluate that forourselves?
So let's kind of dig in fromthat perspective.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Yeah, absolutely, oh, man, I have so much to say
about this particular categoryof work.
I think in general, we look forsilver bullets because it is
this promise of magic.
Right, like we want magic inour worlds and in our lives, we
want to, like, get the outcomewithout the effort That's-.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
We all want that, was it Home Office Depot or Office
Max or something that had theeasy button staples.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Yeah, exactly, yeah, we all want that.
And I think to like the versionI'm talking about here are the
rephrasing of that is from somework that Andy Crouch has done.
In thinking about, what is itthat kind of attempts us to
short circuit the hard workthat's necessary?
Now, that doesn't mean that wedon't like do hard work, for
(08:27):
wrong reasons sometimes or tothe wrong end.
But the first principles, Ithink, are thinking more
specifically about the bigimpact without a lot of work, if
there's a promise that you'rehearing, whether that is a CRM
system, whether that is like thenewest, latest book or person
(08:47):
you follow on LinkedIn and again, there are great people in both
of those places.
I'm not saying every person whoposts on LinkedIn is terrible.
I do it and you do it right,and in fact, it's important for
us to do that so that there'smore voices in the ecosystem
that are not just offering asilver bullet, but we also get
this from our boards orourselves when we go hey, if I
(09:10):
just get this directordevelopment, all my problems
will be over, if I could justfind the right person.
So it's not just people tryingto sell us things, it's also the
ways that we dupe ourselvesinto thinking like here's the
magic solution that I can, andwe have a lot of common ones.
We see people in the ecosystem,other nonprofits, doing
(09:31):
something.
We think, oh, that will solvemy problems, and I think the
first sniff test is like arethey promising magic?
Is somebody here promising memagic?
That is, the outcomes withoutthe effort.
The second that I like to do inthinking about and this is how
I evaluate coaches that join theseed platform too is I like to
(09:52):
look and see what real lifeexperience they have with
fundraising.
Did they work at a nonprofit orwith an organization that
worked alongside nonprofitshelping them with fundraising?
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
If that's not there, then I'm going to be very
skeptical in listening to theiradvice.
There's a recent book that cameout and I won't name the author
or and maybe it's actuallygreat advice.
I haven't read the book, butlooking at this person's just
LinkedIn profile, I immediatelywas like, okay, I'm going to be
skeptical.
There's zero, zero referencesto being in a nonprofit or until
(10:26):
they started a consultancyfocused on fundraising, and so
that's the second thing I lookfor is just look at the history.
Is there some time spent?
Is there work that they didbehind the plow of doing the
work of fundraising that theydid behind the plow of doing the
work of fundraising?
Or are they trying to takesomething from outside the
(10:47):
fundraising world and apply itwithout doing the necessary work
of having lived in thefundraising space as well?
So those are a couple of thingsthat just jump off the top.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
No, I think that's a really good call out because
it's so easy.
I feel like to get suckered inby the new and shiny right, but
taking in anything else, wewould take time to do our own
due diligence.
That's right, we would take timeto do the research and figure
it out.
And so, coming at any platformdecision, consultant, decision,
(11:17):
any of those things has to havethat same due diligence to it,
and that research is critical, Iguess I wonder.
And that research is critical,I guess I wonder and something
you and I have talked about toois it's really easy to go chase
the new and shiny if you don'tunderstand where you're headed
(11:38):
by yourselves internally.
There's not some sort ofinternal strategy that's guiding
what you're doing.
The consultant, the tools, thecoach, the new director of
development, all of those thingsare tools to the strategy.
But if that piece is missing,then you are going to be more
subject to the whims ofwhatever's floating around.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
It's almost like a cart before the horse kind of.
Yeah, no, and I mean I thinkthat adds on to your valuation
criteria, right?
I think there's an elementalaspect of nonprofits that kind
of plays into this too.
As nonprofits, we essentiallyhave two things two
organizations, two paths forresources that we're managing.
(12:22):
One is that programs andoperations side of the work of
providing some help, providingsome service, providing some
thing that is not provided inthe normal marketplace, and then
the other is a fundraisingoperation and, depending on
where you came from or how youcame to the work or what you
enjoy the most, you probablyspend more time or have more
energy on one side or the other.
(12:44):
That I bet lots of folkslistening to me right now are
like oh yeah, I'm the programsperson or I'm the executive
director who is the like thefundraiser.
I like, I love doing that andthe programs.
I get annoyed, like when I haveto get into the details on that
one, and that's fundamentallydifficult and they're not
necessarily fundamentallyaligned to things Like donors
(13:08):
might have different ideas aboutwhat impact they want to have
on your constituency.
On the other side, those whoare being helped, those clients,
those end users, and so there'ssome, and we could talk about
this perhaps on a futureconversation about those
tensions.
But because of that, you may belooking for quick fixes on both
(13:28):
sides of the organization andgoing how can I just make this
less painful the fundraisingside so that I can focus more
effort on this program side, andvice versa.
And but the reality is firstagain like we need to step back
when it comes to fundraising,and this is something you and I
(13:48):
have talked about, like youmentioned.
But in determining how you'regoing to grow fundraising, in
particular, how you're going tohave a sustainable fundraising
operation, it's incrediblyimportant to focus and this is
like one of the things that wefocused on at Seed.
It's an insight that's beencorroborated through some
(14:09):
research that the Bridgespangroup did and presented through
this Stanford Social InnovationReview, that organizations that
actually scale in theirfundraising.
They do that not by doingeverything, not by doing Giving
Tuesday and the end of the yeargiving letter and the big
fundraising gala.
And, which is the other side ofthe spectrum, right, we have
(14:30):
silver bullets and we haveburned out executive directors,
like some of them have, likethey're burned out and that's
why they want to go over here tothe silver bullet, cause
they're trying to do all of thethings.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Right.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
But really at Seed, what we coach our folks on and
what I'd recommend you doregardless if you work with Seed
or with any other organization,a coaching or consulting
organization, or do this on yourown is to step back and say
what is the one or twostrategies we're going to focus
on?
Again, that same research fromStanford showed that the
organizations that focused onone or two strategies they were
(15:04):
actually reliably able to scaleimpact and, by impact,
fundraising revenue.
On that side, the researchdoesn't show those who took that
risky step of saying we're onlygoing to do fundraising events
and major gift fundraising.
It's a risky step and so thatmeans some folks probably failed
too.
But what is nonprofit work ifit's not stepping into a risky
(15:29):
thing to serve others, tosacrifice some of our own
influence or our own resourcesor our own renown to help
somebody who needs support andhelp, who needs a barrier lifted
, who needs something to helpthem move forward from a
situation that they're stuck in?
Speaker 1 (15:53):
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(16:14):
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So I was in a conversation theother day with an executive
director who was, I think, inthe exact spot that you're
talking about super burned outthere.
They do all of these differentthings and they just keep doing
(16:36):
them because it's it and it'sthat line that I hate of like,
this is what we've always done.
This is what we've always done.
Like, okay, but and I, I it wasmaybe a risky statement on my
part, but my statement was yes,but the definition of insanity
is doing the same thing over andover again and expecting
different results.
Right, if you want to continueto grow and you want to scale
(16:59):
that impact, we can't continueto do the things we've always
done.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
There has to be something different, and so I
think maybe that's a tensionthat intrigues me is we have to
do something different, but Idon't want to jump, I don't want
to just chase squirrels withnew and shiny.
So, like, how do we evaluatewhat's the rubric that's in
(17:24):
place to evaluate what thingswe're doing are working versus
where those gaps are, that weshould like look at a new
strategy or invest in a newtechnology or something along
those lines?
Speaker 2 (17:37):
that's, I think, the tension that intrigues me yeah,
well, and I'll jump in and likegive folks like a place to start
.
So.
So a place to start is toidentify.
So, within the withinfundraising strategies again, we
use like words, like strategy,which have a million different
definitions at times, right, butwhen we think at seed, and what
(18:01):
I'd invite others to thinkabout when it comes to
fundraising strategies, is thatat the core of a fundraising
strategy is how we areactivating generosity.
There are two things in commonwith any fundraising
relationship we need to havestorytelling.
We need to be telling stories,whether that's in a personal
relationship or that's from amass communications platform or
(18:22):
it's an event.
We need to be telling stories.
We need to listen too.
Those are the two things thatare in every fundraising
relationship.
There's a third that's a littledifferent, based on which
strategy you choose or you focuson, and that is how you
activate generosity, what is theform that it takes.
And so, okay, that's a lot ofwords.
(18:43):
What I'll say is if you canchoose one or two forms of
activating generosity.
So, with annual giving, it'smass communications.
You're activating generositythrough that letter that you
send, through the TVadvertisement or, more likely,
for the folks listening today,through the email that you're
sending.
There's major gifts whereyou're activating generosity
through personal relationship,people that you get to know
(19:05):
personally their story and theyget to know yours and you invite
them into that relationship.
Events is where you'reactivating generosity through a
transformational experience atits best, or at least an
entertaining experience thatyou've curated for the donor
Through grant writing it's atechnical writing and reporting
process and through corporatesponsorship, it is activating
(19:27):
generosity through an alignedbrand invitation saying, hey,
your brand benefits in this way,our brand benefits in this way,
by being affiliated with eachother.
This is the NFL, the NationalFootball League, doing the pink
jerseys once a year and saying,hey, we support breast cancer.
The breast cancer nonprofitsthen receive a large gift as a
(19:48):
result of that.
And so if you could choose oneor two of those a lot of the
same activities that you'redoing, whether it's an event
that you do once a year, a lotof the same activities that
you're doing, whether it's anevent that you do once a year or
it's the direct mail thatyou're doing those things can
fit within a strategy ofactivating generosity in a
specific way.
And I'll just give you one quickexample.
So say, you're doing a bigannual gala every year, but you
(20:10):
decide you don't really want tobe focused on growing the number
of events, to grow the numberof fundraising, because that's
how that works Right, butinstead really major gifts is
the thing that you want to befocused on Lots of vendors or
(20:31):
other people that are involvedin that process, design work,
invitations, all the things andturn it instead into a small
gathering or a set of smallgatherings in people's homes
where they're inviting people tohear about the work for the
first time.
But it's in a much moreconducive space for personal
relationship to grow, and sothat personal relationship is
(20:52):
what the invitation is out of.
The small gathering it's not.
Hey, will you give towards ourgoal of $30,000 tonight it's.
Will you engage and have ameeting with myself, the
executive director of theorganization?
I'd love to share more, ifyou're interested.
The strategy first, or choosehow we're going to activate
(21:16):
generosity.
Then we can step back and thinkabout how all those tactics
we're doing can bow down, cansubmit themselves to the focus
of the strategy.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
That's so good.
That's so good.
I love it.
There is one piece that yousaid in there that I want to
just go back and highlight.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
And that is the fact that relationships require
listening as well.
I think far too often we getstuck in this idea of just
saying and speaking right orjust email blasting and direct
mailing, and let me just tellyou, and tell you, and tell you
that we do lose sight of theactual relationship aspect of
(21:55):
fundraising, that these are realpeople, not some sort of human
ATM machine, but they are realpeople with real feelings and
real things to say and opinions.
And so I love the call out.
There was, there was so muchwisdom in what you just shared,
but I really like that call outand reminder as well.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
Well, yeah, and I think it.
Perhaps this is a.
We're seeding moreconversations here, megan.
I'd love to just keep havingthem, but I think I think one of
the important pieces inthinking about relationships is
what kind of relationships youwant to have with your donors.
And the reality is that arelationship that is
transactional, relationship thatis transactional, that actually
(22:34):
works I wish it didn't.
I wish it didn't work.
I know To like raise money in areally transactional fashion,
cause I don't feel like it'sgood for people that are giving.
I don't feel like it's good forthe nonprofit that's receiving
to the same degree that it iswhen a relationship is missional
, meaning that it's two-sided,it's a partnership.
(22:54):
And even in a annual givingsetting where you might be doing
a direct mail piece, what arethe spaces and the ways that
you're creating a pathway forlistening back to the
organization?
There are obvious ones the donot mail list.
You know that is a form of yeah, yeah, do not email me, or mail
(23:15):
me ever again.
But we want to be moreproactive than that, and there
are plenty of tactics for that,and ones that are specifically
focused are helpful for thesmaller nonprofit as well.
It doesn't mean you need tohave big focus groups or pay a
marketing research group to dothose pieces.
But you can pause and listenand respond to that relative of
(23:38):
yours that's like, seriously,you sent another email, or when
you said it this way, I thoughtyou meant this instead of that
and listen proactively withinthose situations.
And it matters how we listen,regardless of the strategy.
We need to listen if we canfind it in ourselves through a
posture of humility as well.
(23:59):
It's easy to approach thatadvice either from a position of
like, thinking of ourselves asbetter than the donor.
Ooh, that's painful to hear andthink about.
But often those of us workingin the nonprofit space we're
kind of like, hear and thinkabout.
But often those of us workingin the nonprofit space we're
kind of like we kind of have itall together.
(24:20):
And those outside the nonprofitspace, they're working for
money Wait why?
And that kind of can be apoison to our relationship with
the donor.
To make it to where we aretreating them in a way that
maybe we wouldn't be if wethought of them as that full
enlivened person that you weredescribing before, megan.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
Yeah, I think that's great Good.
Oh man, such good stuff.
I want to keep thisconversation going, but I know
that nobody listens to like atwo hour long podcast.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
We will definitely have to have you back, but in
the meantime, if somebody wantedto connect with you, learn more
about you or your work, orlearn more about Seed and what
Seed Fundraisers is all about,how would we do those things?
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Yeah, absolutely.
Luckily, there aren't that manyIsaac Ezels in the world, so
you can find me pretty easilywith a Google search or a
LinkedIn search.
You know, slash Isaac Ezel.
But if you want to hear alittle bit more about Seed, or
look at what we offer, we workespecially, or particularly,
(25:22):
with early stage nonprofits thatare trying to accelerate and
scale their fundraisingoperation.
We've described them a littlebit you and I have Megan over
the course of our conversationwhere we've talked about they're
feeling burnt out.
They're feeling like they'vedone as much as they can on
their own.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
And they just need a sage.
They just need a wise someoneto come alongside them.
It's not just me.
It's me and 17, 18 othercoaches who have direct
fundraising experience at Seed.
So you can take a look at thatwebsite, seedfundraiserscom and
reach out to us there if we canbe helpful.
I'm the one who picks up thephone if you shoot a message to
(25:56):
us.
So I'm happy to have a 30minute conversation with just
about anybody, and if we can behelpful, I'll point you to one
of our coaches.
If we can't, I'll point.
I'll encourage you on your wayand say you're doing great.
You don't need any help yet,Wouldn't?
Speaker 1 (26:10):
that be a nice call.
No, you're good, there'snothing you could do better.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Well, that was they absolutely happen, yeah, I think
.
Or here's another group who canhelp better at your size and
scale and stage and what you'retrying to accomplish.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Great as we wrap up, this is the question I've been
asking everyone so far in thisseason.
If you were speaking directlyto, let's say, maybe the
executive director of anonprofit or director of
development, chief developmentofficer, those kind of high
level leaders, what would beyour one piece of advice or
encouragement right now in thisseason, like what's the takeaway
(26:47):
for you?
Speaker 2 (26:49):
Yeah, oh man.
There's so much I think thatcould be said, and I'm thinking
of lots of different individualsituations that I'm aware of,
and I'm sure there's so manymore.
For some of you listening tothis podcast, what you really
need to hear is you're doinggood work.
You know you're doing good workconnected to a mission that is
(27:10):
impacting your community, yourworld, your nation, and, like,
take a breath, like receive thatencouragement.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
I don't know you individually, but I know you're
out there and you're doing thatgood work.
The second I'd say is, for someof you, you're feeling frenzied
.
You're feeling like that burnedout person at the end of their
rope.
Before it's too late, take abreak, yeah, take a breath.
Think about how yourmotivations might have been
(27:46):
getting twisted, how your focusmight not be on quite the right
thing, not to say that everybodywho's in that situation it's
their fault or anything likethat.
But I found in my own journey ofburnout that what I really
needed to do is step back andhave enough space and time to
evaluate my own emotions,evaluate my own presence and
(28:07):
evaluate the focus that I had.
And in that process I hope youidentify that, hey, we need to
be more focused.
If it's fundraising that's'scausing that, that burnout, or
on the program side too, hey, wecan't solve everything for this
constituent, but what we can dois help them with this one
thing or this handful of things.
And whenever we bite off morethan is meant for us or that was
(28:30):
given for us to do, it can beso hard to try to live and walk
that out, and there are thingsfor you to do to the person
who's listening here.
There are things for others todo, and it's okay to let others
do too.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
That's a good word.
I love it, isaac.
Thank you so much.
This has been a fantasticconversation.
We will definitely have to pickit back up, but in the meantime
, certainly feel free to reachout to Seed or Isaac if you have
some questions about anythingthat he had to share.
So thank you for joining us.
We appreciate all that wisdom.
Thanks for being here.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
Oh, thanks, megan, and thanks to everybody
listening.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
This has been another episode of the Nonprofit Hub
Radio Podcast.
I'm your host, Megan Spear, andwe'll see you next time.
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