April 4, 2025 • 28 mins
Nonprofits are at a crossroads, facing unprecedented challenges that can threaten their very existence. In this episode, we delve deep into the operational dilemmas that many organizations encounter, shedding light on why it's crucial to streamline processes and leverage data effectively. Our discussion with Adam Huttler, the founder of MonkeyPod, highlights how nonprofits can reclaim their focus on mission-driven work by integrating all essential functions into one cohesive platform. Navigating through turbulent times requires more than just awareness of the challenges; it takes courage and strategic action. Adam emphasizes the importance of advocacy and bold leadership, especially when facing political and economic pressures that could jeopardize funding. Moreover, we explore innovative solutions to enhance operational capabilities through a unified system that addresses discrepancies in data management. This can empower nonprofits to make informed decisions and improve stakeholder engagement. With insightful anecdotes and tangible advice, this episode is packed with invaluable takeaways for anyone in the nonprofit sector. As the conversation unfolds, listeners gain perspective on optimizing relationships with donors and volunteers, creating a framework for deeper connections and commitments. This episode is a clarion call for nonprofit leaders to stand firm and lead with purpose, encouraging engagement with their communities. Don't miss out—it's time to embrace change, innovate, and lead with conviction. Subscribe today, share with your peers, and leave us a review!
Get free nonprofit professional development resources, connections to cause work peers, and more at https://nonprofithub.org
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Non-profit professionals are motivated to
make a difference, but theminutia of non-profit operations
can get in the way of themeaningful work you set out to
do.
That's where MonkeyPod comes in.
Monkeypod helps non-profits getback to their mission by
eliminating busy work.
Their all-in-one softwareincludes a CRM, non-profit
accounting, email marketing,online fundraising and grant
(00:23):
management.
Non-profit Hub listeners canget 15% off the first year of a
MonkeyPod subscription byvisiting monkeypodio slash
nonprofithub.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Welcome back to the Nonprofit Hub podcast.
I'm your host, megan Spear, andjoining me today is Adam Hutler
, who's the founder and CEO ofMonkeyPod Very excited to dig in
.
You may have heard MonkeyPodhas been the podcast sponsor for
a couple months now so youprobably have heard some of
their features.
You may have seen them on awebinar that we did recently.
Very excited to have Adam ontoday to dig into a little bit
(00:58):
around nonprofit data, but alsojust kind of the state of
nonprofit right now, which iscertainly tumultuous at best.
So, adam, welcome in.
Glad to have you here today.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Thank you so much.
I'm really excited to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Fantastic.
So tell the audience a littlebit about yourself.
I mean, obviously we've heard alot about MonkeyPod in the
reads here on the podcast forthe last couple of months, but
would love to know kind of yourjourney, how you got to the
nonprofit space and where youare.
Give us a little bit ofbackground.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Yeah, sure, so it's been an unusual path, I guess
somewhat serendipitous in someways.
I began my career in the arts.
I studied theater in collegeand created a nonprofit
organization that ended upsupporting lots of artists and
arts organizations across thecountry, an organization called
(01:50):
Fractured Atlas.
I founded that back in 1997,ran that for the better part of
20 years and in the context ofdoing that I learned a lot about
the kinds of practicalchallenges that nonprofits and
kind of mission-drivenorganizations in general face
and worked hard to develop somekind of technology-based systems
and solutions for addressingsome of those perennial
challenges.
When I left Fractured Atlas, Iwent on to run an impact
(02:13):
investing fund, so I've spent afew years as a quasi VC and was
happy to leave that world andget back into an operating space
with MonkeyPod, which I've beendoing on and off as a kind of
hobby project for about fiveyears and then as a real company
with real paying customers andusers since about 2020.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
So yeah, 2020 is an interesting time to try and
launch a business.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
It sure was.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
That's a really interesting statement.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Yeah, it wasn't necessarily what I would have
chosen.
Trying to launch a startup isalways hard, but doing it in a
global pandemic is not anyeasier.
I will say, the one thing aboutthat that maybe created an
interesting opportunity for usis just that, while everyone was
suddenly forced to figure outhow to do this whole remote work
thing that we were all doingfor a while and many of us are
(03:06):
still doing, we were in a goodposition to help facilitate that
Because, of course, withMonkeyPod, all of your data and
systems are all online andaccessible from anywhere in the
world.
You don't have to be in acubicle next to the other users.
So I suppose that was anopportunity in a sense.
But yeah, it was a challengingtime for sure.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Yeah, that was no small task, not when I would
want to try and start something.
But and I didn't plan thissegue but here we are.
We are also in anotherinteresting time.
We sure are Unprecedented inits own mechanisms, right?
Yeah, one of the things I knowthat you've been thinking about
(03:48):
that.
I've been thinking about aconversation that has been
happening in the space.
I've seen all sorts of LinkedInthreads about this.
We've seen a ton of changes andsome maybe threats to funding.
We have a lot of grants thathave stopped.
We've got nonprofits that arecoming under fire for various
tasks that they do and the waysthat they serve.
It is a really interestingseason to be in the nonprofit
(04:12):
space and maybe a very stressfulseason for a lot of folks.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
Yes, really kind of terrifying in a lot of ways.
Yeah, absolutely Reallychallenging.
Yeah, somewhat unprecedented.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
So let's start the conversation there, because, as
one who started a businessduring global pandemic, you
might understand challenging.
So let's start there.
One of the things I think hasbeen interesting to watch emerge
from the discussion is thisidea of like almost a freeze of
I don't even know what to do.
(04:43):
Everything is changing soquickly.
I don't know how to keep up.
I don't know how to prove thatour organization is doing what
it says it's doing.
I don't know how to go aboutlike locating different funding
streams.
I don't.
There's just so much.
I'd love to hear, kind of whereyou are in the process and what
you've been thinking about andmaybe some thoughts you have for
our nonprofit audience in thatregard.
(05:04):
The process and what you'vebeen thinking about and maybe
some thoughts you have for ournon-profit audience in that
regard.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Yeah, it's a great question and it's a really tough
time to be doing this kind ofwork, and especially if you're
working in some of these areasthat are really in the
crosshairs of thisadministration.
So, you know, we work withorganizations that are involved
with reproductive justice orLGBTQ youth or, you know,
(05:28):
immigration and things like that.
Right Like this is really.
This is really tough for thosefolks I mean lots of others as
well, but, but especially thoseit's super easy to kind of just
throw your hands up and fallinto despair or just kind of
retreat and say I'm not going tomake any waves, I'm going to be
(05:49):
as quiet as possible, we'rejust going to kind of hide
behind this rock here untilthings blow over.
And I do understand thatimpulse.
I think it's better if you canorganize and if you can engage
the fight.
You know, I think a lot ofnonprofits, you know, for not
without reason, they've beentrained to fear saying or doing
(06:13):
anything at all political.
They've been told that.
You know, the IRS says youcan't be political as a
nonprofit, and there's sometruth to that.
But what you actually can't dois engage in what's called
electioneering, which is whereyou actually kind of
specifically interfere orintervene in an election or
advocate for one specificpolitical candidate or something
like that.
You can't do that as a 501c3organization, but there is
(06:36):
plenty that you can do.
You are absolutely allowed toadvocate vocally for the issues
that matter to your organization, to your constituents, to your
mission and, I think, asnonprofits.
Honestly, in my view, we alwayshave sort of a responsibility
to speak up as experts who arein the field, working on these
(06:57):
issues every day, who are closeto the ground and understand the
issues and the challenges.
And understand the issues andthe challenges, I think,
especially in times like this.
You know this is a historicalmoment and it's not the time to
be timid or go into hiding orshut down.
Some fights are worth the kindof existential risk.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Now.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
I should also say, in fairness, this administration
has demonstrated a willingnessto be punitive and capricious,
and so you know there are risksinvolved, I mean in speaking out
and in taking a stand andwhatever, and so you know I
understand that.
But I think you know, when welook back from a historical
(07:43):
perspective on this moment,we're going to ask ourselves,
did we do everything we could totry to be on the right side of
this fight?
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Yeah, I think it's interesting because, from a
straight donor perspective right, we've always tried to walk
that line.
We never want to appear toomuch to anything because you
could risk alienating half ofyour donors.
So we've always tended to walkthat line, even outside of the,
you know, with the threat oflosing your tax ID status or any
(08:14):
of those things, because wedon't want to alienate part of a
donor base.
And I think for a lot of theorganizations similar, even the
ones that you've been talkingabout, it's easy to assume that
you know if someone's givingbeen talking about.
It's easy to assume that I, youknow if, if someone's giving to
this organization, they mustautomatically think like me,
right?
When that is just not it's notnecessarily a given.
(08:35):
So it's.
We definitely have to kind ofwalk a line there as well.
And I think one of the thingsthat I'm watching, I'm kind of
watching nonprofits kind of gointo two buckets, in that of I
am going all in or I am jumpingout of the fray and I'm not
saying anything.
I'm starting to see the twowithout the middle ground, which
(09:00):
is interesting to watch.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
Yeah, no, I think you're absolutely right and it
is a great point that peoplegive for lots of reasons and
sometimes you know there can besome cognitive dissonance there,
right?
I mean, I've certainlyencountered situations where
somebody has some personalconnection to a particular issue
, that kind of cuts counter totheir overall political views or
(09:25):
orientation or whatever.
So that does that certainlyhappens and I can understand
wanting to be sensitive to thatand look, different
organizations are going to.
Every organization is going tohave to evaluate the sort of
risk reward here for themselves.
I will say, as a generalprinciple, I think more often
than not people respondpositively to confident, bold
(09:50):
people, action and confidentbold language and stances and
all that kind of stuff.
And so, yeah, maybe youalienate one donor but you
attract three others who reallyadmire your willingness to lead
at a time of crisis.
So I think it's challenging topredict with any kind of
(10:15):
accuracy or completeness what'sgoing to happen if you take a
stand on something.
I will say, over the course ofmy career there have been a
number of times where anorganization that I've led or
been a part of has chosen to bevocal, get out there, take a
stand, and I would say it'salways ended up okay.
For me, even when we've lostsome supporters or pissed some
(10:39):
people off, it's tended to, inthe aggregate, be a positive.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Yeah.
So I think one of the thingsthat I think I see a lot of from
folks is they don't want to sayanything because they don't
even know who their people are.
Don't even know who theirpeople are, right Like these
guys are on my email address.
I have no idea where they camefrom.
They gave me $20 one time oryou know.
They've been supporting usmonthly at you know $15 a month
(11:05):
or $50 a month, whatever it is,but I don't know anything about
them.
I have no idea how they gothere, why they're supporting us,
because we haven't done thework as nonprofits to really
understand who our audience andwho our donors are in that
regard.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
Yeah, you're so right .
That's really common and,honestly, I created MonkeyPod to
address that challenge, or inlarge part to address that
challenge Right, and I thinkwhat?
I think a big part of whatcreates that kind of situation
(11:42):
where you've got a lot of databut not much information.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Yeah, not much intel.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
Or or or yeah, right, or nothing really actionable or
coherent or whatever.
A lot of that happens becausemany nonprofits find themselves
in a situation where they've gotyou know 17 different databases
that they're working with and17 different sources of truth
and they've got eight differentrecords for Megan Spear.
Two of them have the last namespelled differently and one of
(12:08):
them has a different address andthere's three different email
address Like, and we're not evensure if this is all the same
person, and there's nocross-referencing of all the
different contexts in which youinteract with somebody.
When you find yourself in thatkind of situation, there's a lot
of opportunities that you'remissing because you're unable to
connect those dots.
(12:28):
There are other more mundaneproblems, right, Having to do
with the amount of time thatyour staff and your volunteers
might be spending on just dataentry and kind of data
maintenance and whatever.
So, finding a way to kind ofwrangle all those different
systems, wrangle all that dataand kind of bring it together
(12:48):
into a sort of single, coherentsource of truth that helps you
kind of organize yourinformation on constituents, on
money, on projects, on programsand put actionable information
into the hands of decisionmakers at a strategic level, but
also like your frontline people, it can be absolutely
(13:09):
transformative for anorganization monkey pod brings
financial and people managementtogether into one platform.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Nonprofits can manage their accounting and grants
from the same software they useto send emails, collect
donations and track donors,instead of using three or four
different apps to run yournonprofit.
Monkey pod brings all thosefeatures together into one
single platform, saving you timeand money.
Nonprofit Hub podcast listenerscan get a special 15% off
(13:44):
discount on the first year oftheir MonkeyPod subscription.
Learn more by visitingmonkeypodio slash nonprofit hub.
Nonprofit Hub.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
There is an organization that I love dearly.
They're based here inPittsburgh, right in my
neighborhood.
They do fantastic work.
I am not kidding you.
I have called their developmentoffice five times in the course
of the last year to be like hey, you send me four pieces of
mail.
Every time you do a direct mailpiece.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
Oh my gosh yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
You have my name spelled four different ways.
Sometimes Megan has an H,sometimes it doesn't.
Sometimes Spear has two E's.
One time it has an S at the endof it.
I love you.
I'm going to continue tosupport you, but it comes across
as you actually not being agood steward of the resources
I'm entrusting you with when yousend me four pieces every time.
It's perception as well as it'scosting your organization,
(14:53):
because I have to assume I'm notthe only one that's having this
problem.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
Absolutely.
So you're right.
One, you kind of look foolishbecause clearly you don't have
your act together, but also it'spretty hard to make the case
that you value this relationshipwhen you can't even figure out
how many times you're sendingthe same piece of mail to
someone.
So it's a real opportunity toup your game, yes, to save money
, but also to improve yourreputation and your brand value
(15:22):
and your relationships with yourdonors and you know, but also
like I really don't want tounderestimate the value of kind
of being able to connect thosedots.
So if I can just tell a littleanecdote, one of the earliest,
one of our very earliest usersat MonkeyPub, when we were still
kind of in a beta test we onlyhad like two or three
organizations we spent a bunchof time getting their data onto
(15:43):
the platform from I don't know.
They had four or five differentdatabases that they were using.
I think they were using DonorPerfect for their fundraising in
CRM and they were usingQuickBooks for their accounting
and they had Excel spreadsheetsand other things that they were
using QuickBooks for theiraccounting and they had Excel
spreadsheets and other thingsthat they were using for their
sort of program managementwhatever, and they managed to
migrate it all into one systemand I think within 24 hours they
(16:07):
found a case where they hadsomebody who had given a bunch
of money like a five-figure gift, had given a bunch of money
like a five-figure giftsomething like 10 or 15 years
earlier and then had totallylost contact.
And then this person's spouse,like six months ago, engaged
(16:34):
with one of their programsbecause she needed help for her
kid.
And they had no idea even thatthese two people were in the
same household, much less thatthey had these two very
different but very importantrelationships.
And so just being able toconnect those dots and realize,
oh my gosh, this is a hugeopportunity.
They made an appeal on the basisof hey, there's a window here,
they know about our work,they're actively engaging with
(16:55):
it, they're seeing the valuethat we provide.
And they got anotherfive-figure gift that they never
would have even known to askfor if not for the ability to
tie that stuff together.
So I really think it's a missedopportunity to raise more money
, to increase your impact, tosave money on operations, to
(17:17):
look better.
All of that stuff can come fromthe simple act of organizing
your data.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
I agree Because you're right, it does speak to
the trust a donor puts into yourorganization.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Right If I am giving regularly and I have, in this
case, called you five times tosay hey, could you please merge
these donor records?
Speaker 3 (17:42):
and just send me one piece of mail.
That's the worst part.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
Right.
I feel like every time I pickup the phone to tell them this
it is just eroding the trustthat I have in the organization
to actually do what they saythey're going to do.
But I ran across a similarsituation to what you're talking
about not too long ago, wherespouse records had not been
matched right and so somebodygot approached.
The wife got approached for asignificant gift in a capital
(18:07):
campaign without any frame ofreference that her husband had
already committed right.
So now again you just lookfoolish.
Your reputation suffers inthere and that is once trust is
lost.
That is a hard relationship torebuild and get back.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
Yes, it is.
There's also the issue of impactand kind of understanding and
analyzing and assessing yourimpact.
I think when you're running anonprofit, it's very easy,
without realizing it, to spendyour time doing things that feel
(18:52):
good for you, for your staff,that feel like they're making an
impact, that give you thatfeeling of accomplishment, which
I get it.
I want that too, but theresometimes is a difference
between the things that feelgood and the things that are
actually making an impact andactually making a difference and
(19:12):
you have, I think, a realresponsibility as a steward of
charitable dollars and as anorganization dedicated to making
the world a better place andall the rest.
You have to ask yourself thattough question of are these
things that we're doing actuallyworking?
Are there other things we couldbe doing that would work better
, that would have a biggerimpact, that would help us take
(19:34):
the limited resources we haveand do more with it?
And you can't even ask thosequestions if you don't have good
data in the first place on whatyou're spending money on, on
what kind of results you'reachieving.
Nonprofits are, or should be,data-driven organizations, and a
lot of them are not.
A lot of them are not inpractice.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Well, I think that goes back to our original point.
I think a lot of timesnonprofits look at themselves as
having some sort of pass right.
Nonprofit, all it is is a taxID status right.
It doesn't mean that you can'tstill run it like a business.
In fact, you need to run itlike a business so that that
impact can continue.
(20:15):
And so I think there's a lot oftimes where you talk to folks
and they're like oh, data ormarketing or any of these things
become like almost taboo wordsthat we want to avoid because it
feels to the organization likethat takes away, or it's too
much overhead, or it takes awayfrom the mission or whatever it
is when the mission is not goingto exist without those things.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
Absolutely.
I couldn't agree more.
I would say one of the mostpowerful things that a nonprofit
can do and I don't want tosuggest that this is easy or
even possible for all nonprofits, but to the greatest extent
possible, if you can find waysof aligning your mission
objectives and your businessobjectives, so your business
(21:01):
model and your theory of changeare overlapping to such a degree
that if you accomplish yourmission, then you're also going
to accomplish your business andfinancial objectives, or our
business and financialobjectives are a useful proxy
for assessing our mission impact.
(21:22):
That can be incredibly powerfulbecause it gets everyone in the
organization really clear eyedand focused on the things that
matter, and whether you'reworking on the money stuff or on
the mission stuff, you'rehelping both.
Now, again, I realize that thisis a I'm oversimplifying a
little bit.
Right, this is much easier forsome organizations than than
(21:44):
others.
If you're doing animal rescuething, You're not going to get
the dogs and cats to pay you foryour services.
I get it, it's not always easyor even doable, but to whatever
extent that's possible that youcan find ways of aligning those
two things and of thinking ofthe constituents that you serve,
(22:06):
as for lack of a better termcustomers right.
That can really unlock a lot ofopportunities and it can really
get a sort of flywheel positive, you know, virtuous cycle going
for your organizational model.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
So tell me a little bit from your opinion then, if
we look at it through thatframework right where all of the
things are working together, Ithink the other piece that a lot
of folks overlook is yourvolunteer base.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
Sure.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Right, so you have this whole.
You know we have a donordatabase and we might have an
Excel spreadsheet somewhere ofthe people who volunteer their
time, but there's very feworganizations that I see that
are overlapping those pieces ofdata as well to really
understand somebody's depth ofconnection to the organization
the donor team might be going ohyeah, they give us a little bit
(22:53):
of money every year.
It's not a giant priority, butthey're also giving you 10 hours
a week or 10 hours a month.
I think that's the other pieceI see missed a lot in the data
is really understanding, yes,your constituents and your
donors, but also anyone elsewho's involved that way.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
You're exactly right, and that's another case of the
value and the opportunity inkind of consolidating your
systems and your databases.
Almost every nonprofit has somekind of donor database.
They might also have a systemfor managing their membership,
another system for managingtheir volunteers, another system
for managing their vendorsright, and getting that all
together into a CRM like the onethat's part of MonkeyPod where
(23:36):
you're able to see all of thedifferent ways in which you
connect to a given person ororganization or constituent or
whatever really is a coolopportunity.
I mean, your example ofvolunteers and donors is
probably the best single exampleyou could come up with.
Right, because your donors aregreat candidates to volunteer
and your volunteers are greatcandidates to donate.
(23:58):
And if you've got donors who'venever volunteered and you can
get them to volunteer and kindof see, on a more personal,
grassroots level, the kind ofwork that you're doing, the kind
of people that you're serving,the impact that you're having in
the world, that's going toresult in them deepening their
connection to the organization.
They're going to feel likethey're more a part of it.
They've got some more skin inthe game because they've gotten
(24:19):
their hands dirty, so that'slikely to increase their giving
if you can get them to volunteer, and likewise your volunteers,
who better to understand what itis that you're doing and why it
matters than the people who arealready giving their time and
already helping you do the work,should be an easy case for
support to ask those folks tothrow in a few bucks as well.
So yeah, no brainer.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
So, with all of that, talk to us a little bit about
MonkeyPod, right?
If somebody is like, okay, youkeep mentioning this, what does
it even do?
How do I find it?
What would I use it for?
Etc, give us kind of theoverview of the platform itself
and then how folks could connectwith you if they're interested
in that.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
Yeah, absolutely so.
Monkeypod is a kind of trueall-in-one platform for managing
all aspects of a nonprofit'soperations.
So a lot of folks say we'reall-in-one and what they mean is
like, well, we do donormanagement and we can do an
online fundraising page orsomething like that.
I think, to a greater degreethan almost anybody else,
(25:19):
monkeypod really is anall-in-one right.
It's got true full-featurednonprofit fund accounting so you
can get rid of QuickBooks,which does not support nonprofit
accounting, by the way.
It's got a real robust CRM andit's going to help you track
your donors, your volunteers,your members, your institutional
funders, all of the differentkinds of relationships that you
(25:42):
have.
Get them all into one place andview them through whatever
lenses make sense based on theways that you interact with that
person Everything from budgets,fundraising, grant management,
email marketing, right.
So you don't need MailChimp orConstant Contact anymore.
You can kind of and, by the way, just having your email
(26:03):
marketing and your CRM in thesame place so that you're not
having to do this export importdance every time you want to
send something.
That's huge and a big timesaver and a big, big opportunity
.
So, yeah, it's a real likenonprofit in a box, like you get
your stuff onto monkey pod, andthat's the one place where
everybody on your team can go toaccess the information they
need to do their jobs and to, toyou know, get a better handle
(26:28):
on the organization's work.
You find us at monkeypodcom.
And, yeah, we're only fornonprofits.
We don't.
We're not like a small businessplatform that pretends to have
a nonprofit edition, like weonly work with nonprofit
organizations and so it's goingto be like nonprofit concepts
and terminology throughout.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
I love that.
Give us the web address onemore time, specific to our
Nonprofit Hub audience as well.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
Ah, yes, yeah, so it's monkeypodcom slash
Nonprofit Hub.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Fair enough, fantastic, well, good.
So, adam, before we wrap up, Iwant to ask one question, and
that is, given all the thingsthat we've discussed, given
where we are at this particularjuncture of history, if you were
going to give one kind ofencouragement or takeaway or
piece of advice to the nonprofitleader who is listening right
(27:19):
now, what are your kind of wordsof wisdom in this particular
moment, which I realize is a bigquestion?
Speaker 3 (27:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
But if you could sum it up into one word, like one
piece of advice or word ofwisdom or encouragement, what
would that look like?
Speaker 3 (27:35):
Yeah, that's a good question.
I think I would just say, like,hang in there and find your
courage right.
You're a leader.
This is the time to lead.
Yeah, you're a leader.
This is the time to lead.
Um, uh, this is not a time tobe overly cautious or to be
(28:03):
afraid of making waves, or, youknow, leaders lead in in times
of crisis and in in these sortof critical historical moments.
Um and and.
At the sector level, that'swhat we need, and at the
organizational level, I promiseyou, that's what you need.
Your people need it, your teamneeds it, your constituents need
it, the community you serveneeds it.
They need you to step up andlead.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
I love it.
Fantastic encouragement inthere, Adam.
Thank you so much for joiningme.
This has been a reallyinteresting discussion.
Hopefully it's helpful andencouraging to folks in this
season as well.
So I really appreciate all yourwisdom.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
Thank you so much.
Really appreciate theopportunity to talk to you.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
My pleasure, this has been another episode of the
Nonprofit Hub Radio Podcast.
I'm your host, megan Spear, andwe'll see you next time.
Bye.
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(00:23):
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Speaker 2 (00:36):
Welcome back to the Nonprofit Hub podcast.
I'm your host, megan Spear, andjoining me today is Adam Hutler
, who's the founder and CEO ofMonkeyPod Very excited to dig in
.
You may have heard MonkeyPodhas been the podcast sponsor for
a couple months now so youprobably have heard some of
their features.
You may have seen them on awebinar that we did recently.
Very excited to have Adam ontoday to dig into a little bit
(00:58):
around nonprofit data, but alsojust kind of the state of
nonprofit right now, which iscertainly tumultuous at best.
So, adam, welcome in.
Glad to have you here today.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Thank you so much.
I'm really excited to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Fantastic.
So tell the audience a littlebit about yourself.
I mean, obviously we've heard alot about MonkeyPod in the
reads here on the podcast forthe last couple of months, but
would love to know kind of yourjourney, how you got to the
nonprofit space and where youare.
Give us a little bit ofbackground.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Yeah, sure, so it's been an unusual path, I guess
somewhat serendipitous in someways.
I began my career in the arts.
I studied theater in collegeand created a nonprofit
organization that ended upsupporting lots of artists and
arts organizations across thecountry, an organization called
(01:50):
Fractured Atlas.
I founded that back in 1997,ran that for the better part of
20 years and in the context ofdoing that I learned a lot about
the kinds of practicalchallenges that nonprofits and
kind of mission-drivenorganizations in general face
and worked hard to develop somekind of technology-based systems
and solutions for addressingsome of those perennial
challenges.
When I left Fractured Atlas, Iwent on to run an impact
(02:13):
investing fund, so I've spent afew years as a quasi VC and was
happy to leave that world andget back into an operating space
with MonkeyPod, which I've beendoing on and off as a kind of
hobby project for about fiveyears and then as a real company
with real paying customers andusers since about 2020.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
So yeah, 2020 is an interesting time to try and
launch a business.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
It sure was.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
That's a really interesting statement.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Yeah, it wasn't necessarily what I would have
chosen.
Trying to launch a startup isalways hard, but doing it in a
global pandemic is not anyeasier.
I will say, the one thing aboutthat that maybe created an
interesting opportunity for usis just that, while everyone was
suddenly forced to figure outhow to do this whole remote work
thing that we were all doingfor a while and many of us are
(03:06):
still doing, we were in a goodposition to help facilitate that
Because, of course, withMonkeyPod, all of your data and
systems are all online andaccessible from anywhere in the
world.
You don't have to be in acubicle next to the other users.
So I suppose that was anopportunity in a sense.
But yeah, it was a challengingtime for sure.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Yeah, that was no small task, not when I would
want to try and start something.
But and I didn't plan thissegue but here we are.
We are also in anotherinteresting time.
We sure are Unprecedented inits own mechanisms, right?
Yeah, one of the things I knowthat you've been thinking about
(03:48):
that.
I've been thinking about aconversation that has been
happening in the space.
I've seen all sorts of LinkedInthreads about this.
We've seen a ton of changes andsome maybe threats to funding.
We have a lot of grants thathave stopped.
We've got nonprofits that arecoming under fire for various
tasks that they do and the waysthat they serve.
It is a really interestingseason to be in the nonprofit
(04:12):
space and maybe a very stressfulseason for a lot of folks.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
Yes, really kind of terrifying in a lot of ways.
Yeah, absolutely Reallychallenging.
Yeah, somewhat unprecedented.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
So let's start the conversation there, because, as
one who started a businessduring global pandemic, you
might understand challenging.
So let's start there.
One of the things I think hasbeen interesting to watch emerge
from the discussion is thisidea of like almost a freeze of
I don't even know what to do.
(04:43):
Everything is changing soquickly.
I don't know how to keep up.
I don't know how to prove thatour organization is doing what
it says it's doing.
I don't know how to go aboutlike locating different funding
streams.
I don't.
There's just so much.
I'd love to hear, kind of whereyou are in the process and what
you've been thinking about andmaybe some thoughts you have for
our nonprofit audience in thatregard.
(05:04):
The process and what you'vebeen thinking about and maybe
some thoughts you have for ournon-profit audience in that
regard.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Yeah, it's a great question and it's a really tough
time to be doing this kind ofwork, and especially if you're
working in some of these areasthat are really in the
crosshairs of thisadministration.
So, you know, we work withorganizations that are involved
with reproductive justice orLGBTQ youth or, you know,
(05:28):
immigration and things like that.
Right Like this is really.
This is really tough for thosefolks I mean lots of others as
well, but, but especially thoseit's super easy to kind of just
throw your hands up and fallinto despair or just kind of
retreat and say I'm not going tomake any waves, I'm going to be
(05:49):
as quiet as possible, we'rejust going to kind of hide
behind this rock here untilthings blow over.
And I do understand thatimpulse.
I think it's better if you canorganize and if you can engage
the fight.
You know, I think a lot ofnonprofits, you know, for not
without reason, they've beentrained to fear saying or doing
(06:13):
anything at all political.
They've been told that.
You know, the IRS says youcan't be political as a
nonprofit, and there's sometruth to that.
But what you actually can't dois engage in what's called
electioneering, which is whereyou actually kind of
specifically interfere orintervene in an election or
advocate for one specificpolitical candidate or something
like that.
You can't do that as a 501c3organization, but there is
(06:36):
plenty that you can do.
You are absolutely allowed toadvocate vocally for the issues
that matter to your organization, to your constituents, to your
mission and, I think, asnonprofits.
Honestly, in my view, we alwayshave sort of a responsibility
to speak up as experts who arein the field, working on these
(06:57):
issues every day, who are closeto the ground and understand the
issues and the challenges.
And understand the issues andthe challenges, I think,
especially in times like this.
You know this is a historicalmoment and it's not the time to
be timid or go into hiding orshut down.
Some fights are worth the kindof existential risk.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Now.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
I should also say, in fairness, this administration
has demonstrated a willingnessto be punitive and capricious,
and so you know there are risksinvolved, I mean in speaking out
and in taking a stand andwhatever, and so you know I
understand that.
But I think you know, when welook back from a historical
(07:43):
perspective on this moment,we're going to ask ourselves,
did we do everything we could totry to be on the right side of
this fight?
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Yeah, I think it's interesting because, from a
straight donor perspective right, we've always tried to walk
that line.
We never want to appear toomuch to anything because you
could risk alienating half ofyour donors.
So we've always tended to walkthat line, even outside of the,
you know, with the threat oflosing your tax ID status or any
(08:14):
of those things, because wedon't want to alienate part of a
donor base.
And I think for a lot of theorganizations similar, even the
ones that you've been talkingabout, it's easy to assume that
you know if someone's givingbeen talking about.
It's easy to assume that I, youknow if, if someone's giving to
this organization, they mustautomatically think like me,
right?
When that is just not it's notnecessarily a given.
(08:35):
So it's.
We definitely have to kind ofwalk a line there as well.
And I think one of the thingsthat I'm watching, I'm kind of
watching nonprofits kind of gointo two buckets, in that of I
am going all in or I am jumpingout of the fray and I'm not
saying anything.
I'm starting to see the twowithout the middle ground, which
(09:00):
is interesting to watch.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
Yeah, no, I think you're absolutely right and it
is a great point that peoplegive for lots of reasons and
sometimes you know there can besome cognitive dissonance there,
right?
I mean, I've certainlyencountered situations where
somebody has some personalconnection to a particular issue
, that kind of cuts counter totheir overall political views or
(09:25):
orientation or whatever.
So that does that certainlyhappens and I can understand
wanting to be sensitive to thatand look, different
organizations are going to.
Every organization is going tohave to evaluate the sort of
risk reward here for themselves.
I will say, as a generalprinciple, I think more often
than not people respondpositively to confident, bold
(09:50):
people, action and confidentbold language and stances and
all that kind of stuff.
And so, yeah, maybe youalienate one donor but you
attract three others who reallyadmire your willingness to lead
at a time of crisis.
So I think it's challenging topredict with any kind of
(10:15):
accuracy or completeness what'sgoing to happen if you take a
stand on something.
I will say, over the course ofmy career there have been a
number of times where anorganization that I've led or
been a part of has chosen to bevocal, get out there, take a
stand, and I would say it'salways ended up okay.
For me, even when we've lostsome supporters or pissed some
(10:39):
people off, it's tended to, inthe aggregate, be a positive.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Yeah.
So I think one of the thingsthat I think I see a lot of from
folks is they don't want to sayanything because they don't
even know who their people are.
Don't even know who theirpeople are, right Like these
guys are on my email address.
I have no idea where they camefrom.
They gave me $20 one time oryou know.
They've been supporting usmonthly at you know $15 a month
(11:05):
or $50 a month, whatever it is,but I don't know anything about
them.
I have no idea how they gothere, why they're supporting us,
because we haven't done thework as nonprofits to really
understand who our audience andwho our donors are in that
regard.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
Yeah, you're so right .
That's really common and,honestly, I created MonkeyPod to
address that challenge, or inlarge part to address that
challenge Right, and I thinkwhat?
I think a big part of whatcreates that kind of situation
(11:42):
where you've got a lot of databut not much information.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Yeah, not much intel.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
Or or or yeah, right, or nothing really actionable or
coherent or whatever.
A lot of that happens becausemany nonprofits find themselves
in a situation where they've gotyou know 17 different databases
that they're working with and17 different sources of truth
and they've got eight differentrecords for Megan Spear.
Two of them have the last namespelled differently and one of
(12:08):
them has a different address andthere's three different email
address Like, and we're not evensure if this is all the same
person, and there's nocross-referencing of all the
different contexts in which youinteract with somebody.
When you find yourself in thatkind of situation, there's a lot
of opportunities that you'remissing because you're unable to
connect those dots.
(12:28):
There are other more mundaneproblems, right, Having to do
with the amount of time thatyour staff and your volunteers
might be spending on just dataentry and kind of data
maintenance and whatever.
So, finding a way to kind ofwrangle all those different
systems, wrangle all that dataand kind of bring it together
(12:48):
into a sort of single, coherentsource of truth that helps you
kind of organize yourinformation on constituents, on
money, on projects, on programsand put actionable information
into the hands of decisionmakers at a strategic level, but
also like your frontline people, it can be absolutely
(13:09):
transformative for anorganization monkey pod brings
financial and people managementtogether into one platform.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Nonprofits can manage their accounting and grants
from the same software they useto send emails, collect
donations and track donors,instead of using three or four
different apps to run yournonprofit.
Monkey pod brings all thosefeatures together into one
single platform, saving you timeand money.
Nonprofit Hub podcast listenerscan get a special 15% off
(13:44):
discount on the first year oftheir MonkeyPod subscription.
Learn more by visitingmonkeypodio slash nonprofit hub.
Nonprofit Hub.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
There is an organization that I love dearly.
They're based here inPittsburgh, right in my
neighborhood.
They do fantastic work.
I am not kidding you.
I have called their developmentoffice five times in the course
of the last year to be like hey, you send me four pieces of
mail.
Every time you do a direct mailpiece.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
Oh my gosh yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
You have my name spelled four different ways.
Sometimes Megan has an H,sometimes it doesn't.
Sometimes Spear has two E's.
One time it has an S at the endof it.
I love you.
I'm going to continue tosupport you, but it comes across
as you actually not being agood steward of the resources
I'm entrusting you with when yousend me four pieces every time.
It's perception as well as it'scosting your organization,
(14:53):
because I have to assume I'm notthe only one that's having this
problem.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
Absolutely.
So you're right.
One, you kind of look foolishbecause clearly you don't have
your act together, but also it'spretty hard to make the case
that you value this relationshipwhen you can't even figure out
how many times you're sendingthe same piece of mail to
someone.
So it's a real opportunity toup your game, yes, to save money
, but also to improve yourreputation and your brand value
(15:22):
and your relationships with yourdonors and you know, but also
like I really don't want tounderestimate the value of kind
of being able to connect thosedots.
So if I can just tell a littleanecdote, one of the earliest,
one of our very earliest usersat MonkeyPub, when we were still
kind of in a beta test we onlyhad like two or three
organizations we spent a bunchof time getting their data onto
(15:43):
the platform from I don't know.
They had four or five differentdatabases that they were using.
I think they were using DonorPerfect for their fundraising in
CRM and they were usingQuickBooks for their accounting
and they had Excel spreadsheetsand other things that they were
using QuickBooks for theiraccounting and they had Excel
spreadsheets and other thingsthat they were using for their
sort of program managementwhatever, and they managed to
migrate it all into one systemand I think within 24 hours they
(16:07):
found a case where they hadsomebody who had given a bunch
of money like a five-figure gift, had given a bunch of money
like a five-figure giftsomething like 10 or 15 years
earlier and then had totallylost contact.
And then this person's spouse,like six months ago, engaged
(16:34):
with one of their programsbecause she needed help for her
kid.
And they had no idea even thatthese two people were in the
same household, much less thatthey had these two very
different but very importantrelationships.
And so just being able toconnect those dots and realize,
oh my gosh, this is a hugeopportunity.
They made an appeal on the basisof hey, there's a window here,
they know about our work,they're actively engaging with
(16:55):
it, they're seeing the valuethat we provide.
And they got anotherfive-figure gift that they never
would have even known to askfor if not for the ability to
tie that stuff together.
So I really think it's a missedopportunity to raise more money
, to increase your impact, tosave money on operations, to
(17:17):
look better.
All of that stuff can come fromthe simple act of organizing
your data.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
I agree Because you're right, it does speak to
the trust a donor puts into yourorganization.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Right If I am giving regularly and I have, in this
case, called you five times tosay hey, could you please merge
these donor records?
Speaker 3 (17:42):
and just send me one piece of mail.
That's the worst part.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
Right.
I feel like every time I pickup the phone to tell them this
it is just eroding the trustthat I have in the organization
to actually do what they saythey're going to do.
But I ran across a similarsituation to what you're talking
about not too long ago, wherespouse records had not been
matched right and so somebodygot approached.
The wife got approached for asignificant gift in a capital
(18:07):
campaign without any frame ofreference that her husband had
already committed right.
So now again you just lookfoolish.
Your reputation suffers inthere and that is once trust is
lost.
That is a hard relationship torebuild and get back.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
Yes, it is.
There's also the issue of impactand kind of understanding and
analyzing and assessing yourimpact.
I think when you're running anonprofit, it's very easy,
without realizing it, to spendyour time doing things that feel
(18:52):
good for you, for your staff,that feel like they're making an
impact, that give you thatfeeling of accomplishment, which
I get it.
I want that too, but theresometimes is a difference
between the things that feelgood and the things that are
actually making an impact andactually making a difference and
(19:12):
you have, I think, a realresponsibility as a steward of
charitable dollars and as anorganization dedicated to making
the world a better place andall the rest.
You have to ask yourself thattough question of are these
things that we're doing actuallyworking?
Are there other things we couldbe doing that would work better
, that would have a biggerimpact, that would help us take
(19:34):
the limited resources we haveand do more with it?
And you can't even ask thosequestions if you don't have good
data in the first place on whatyou're spending money on, on
what kind of results you'reachieving.
Nonprofits are, or should be,data-driven organizations, and a
lot of them are not.
A lot of them are not inpractice.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Well, I think that goes back to our original point.
I think a lot of timesnonprofits look at themselves as
having some sort of pass right.
Nonprofit, all it is is a taxID status right.
It doesn't mean that you can'tstill run it like a business.
In fact, you need to run itlike a business so that that
impact can continue.
(20:15):
And so I think there's a lot oftimes where you talk to folks
and they're like oh, data ormarketing or any of these things
become like almost taboo wordsthat we want to avoid because it
feels to the organization likethat takes away, or it's too
much overhead, or it takes awayfrom the mission or whatever it
is when the mission is not goingto exist without those things.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
Absolutely.
I couldn't agree more.
I would say one of the mostpowerful things that a nonprofit
can do and I don't want tosuggest that this is easy or
even possible for all nonprofits, but to the greatest extent
possible, if you can find waysof aligning your mission
objectives and your businessobjectives, so your business
(21:01):
model and your theory of changeare overlapping to such a degree
that if you accomplish yourmission, then you're also going
to accomplish your business andfinancial objectives, or our
business and financialobjectives are a useful proxy
for assessing our mission impact.
(21:22):
That can be incredibly powerfulbecause it gets everyone in the
organization really clear eyedand focused on the things that
matter, and whether you'reworking on the money stuff or on
the mission stuff, you'rehelping both.
Now, again, I realize that thisis a I'm oversimplifying a
little bit.
Right, this is much easier forsome organizations than than
(21:44):
others.
If you're doing animal rescuething, You're not going to get
the dogs and cats to pay you foryour services.
I get it, it's not always easyor even doable, but to whatever
extent that's possible that youcan find ways of aligning those
two things and of thinking ofthe constituents that you serve,
(22:06):
as for lack of a better termcustomers right.
That can really unlock a lot ofopportunities and it can really
get a sort of flywheel positive, you know, virtuous cycle going
for your organizational model.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
So tell me a little bit from your opinion then, if
we look at it through thatframework right where all of the
things are working together, Ithink the other piece that a lot
of folks overlook is yourvolunteer base.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
Sure.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Right, so you have this whole.
You know we have a donordatabase and we might have an
Excel spreadsheet somewhere ofthe people who volunteer their
time, but there's very feworganizations that I see that
are overlapping those pieces ofdata as well to really
understand somebody's depth ofconnection to the organization
the donor team might be going ohyeah, they give us a little bit
(22:53):
of money every year.
It's not a giant priority, butthey're also giving you 10 hours
a week or 10 hours a month.
I think that's the other pieceI see missed a lot in the data
is really understanding, yes,your constituents and your
donors, but also anyone elsewho's involved that way.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
You're exactly right, and that's another case of the
value and the opportunity inkind of consolidating your
systems and your databases.
Almost every nonprofit has somekind of donor database.
They might also have a systemfor managing their membership,
another system for managingtheir volunteers, another system
for managing their vendorsright, and getting that all
together into a CRM like the onethat's part of MonkeyPod where
(23:36):
you're able to see all of thedifferent ways in which you
connect to a given person ororganization or constituent or
whatever really is a coolopportunity.
I mean, your example ofvolunteers and donors is
probably the best single exampleyou could come up with.
Right, because your donors aregreat candidates to volunteer
and your volunteers are greatcandidates to donate.
(23:58):
And if you've got donors who'venever volunteered and you can
get them to volunteer and kindof see, on a more personal,
grassroots level, the kind ofwork that you're doing, the kind
of people that you're serving,the impact that you're having in
the world, that's going toresult in them deepening their
connection to the organization.
They're going to feel likethey're more a part of it.
They've got some more skin inthe game because they've gotten
(24:19):
their hands dirty, so that'slikely to increase their giving
if you can get them to volunteer, and likewise your volunteers,
who better to understand what itis that you're doing and why it
matters than the people who arealready giving their time and
already helping you do the work,should be an easy case for
support to ask those folks tothrow in a few bucks as well.
So yeah, no brainer.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
So, with all of that, talk to us a little bit about
MonkeyPod, right?
If somebody is like, okay, youkeep mentioning this, what does
it even do?
How do I find it?
What would I use it for?
Etc, give us kind of theoverview of the platform itself
and then how folks could connectwith you if they're interested
in that.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
Yeah, absolutely so.
Monkeypod is a kind of trueall-in-one platform for managing
all aspects of a nonprofit'soperations.
So a lot of folks say we'reall-in-one and what they mean is
like, well, we do donormanagement and we can do an
online fundraising page orsomething like that.
I think, to a greater degreethan almost anybody else,
(25:19):
monkeypod really is anall-in-one right.
It's got true full-featurednonprofit fund accounting so you
can get rid of QuickBooks,which does not support nonprofit
accounting, by the way.
It's got a real robust CRM andit's going to help you track
your donors, your volunteers,your members, your institutional
funders, all of the differentkinds of relationships that you
(25:42):
have.
Get them all into one place andview them through whatever
lenses make sense based on theways that you interact with that
person Everything from budgets,fundraising, grant management,
email marketing, right.
So you don't need MailChimp orConstant Contact anymore.
You can kind of and, by the way, just having your email
(26:03):
marketing and your CRM in thesame place so that you're not
having to do this export importdance every time you want to
send something.
That's huge and a big timesaver and a big, big opportunity
.
So, yeah, it's a real likenonprofit in a box, like you get
your stuff onto monkey pod, andthat's the one place where
everybody on your team can go toaccess the information they
need to do their jobs and to, toyou know, get a better handle
(26:28):
on the organization's work.
You find us at monkeypodcom.
And, yeah, we're only fornonprofits.
We don't.
We're not like a small businessplatform that pretends to have
a nonprofit edition, like weonly work with nonprofit
organizations and so it's goingto be like nonprofit concepts
and terminology throughout.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
I love that.
Give us the web address onemore time, specific to our
Nonprofit Hub audience as well.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
Ah, yes, yeah, so it's monkeypodcom slash
Nonprofit Hub.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Fair enough, fantastic, well, good.
So, adam, before we wrap up, Iwant to ask one question, and
that is, given all the thingsthat we've discussed, given
where we are at this particularjuncture of history, if you were
going to give one kind ofencouragement or takeaway or
piece of advice to the nonprofitleader who is listening right
(27:19):
now, what are your kind of wordsof wisdom in this particular
moment, which I realize is a bigquestion?
Speaker 3 (27:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
But if you could sum it up into one word, like one
piece of advice or word ofwisdom or encouragement, what
would that look like?
Speaker 3 (27:35):
Yeah, that's a good question.
I think I would just say, like,hang in there and find your
courage right.
You're a leader.
This is the time to lead.
Yeah, you're a leader.
This is the time to lead.
Um, uh, this is not a time tobe overly cautious or to be
(28:03):
afraid of making waves, or, youknow, leaders lead in in times
of crisis and in in these sortof critical historical moments.
Um and and.
At the sector level, that'swhat we need, and at the
organizational level, I promiseyou, that's what you need.
Your people need it, your teamneeds it, your constituents need
it, the community you serveneeds it.
They need you to step up andlead.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
I love it.
Fantastic encouragement inthere, Adam.
Thank you so much for joiningme.
This has been a reallyinteresting discussion.
Hopefully it's helpful andencouraging to folks in this
season as well.
So I really appreciate all yourwisdom.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
Thank you so much.
Really appreciate theopportunity to talk to you.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
My pleasure, this has been another episode of the
Nonprofit Hub Radio Podcast.
I'm your host, megan Spear, andwe'll see you next time.
Bye.
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