July 25, 2025 • 30 mins
In this episode of the Nonprofit Hub Podcast, host Meghan Speer is joined by Carly Berna, Fundraiser in Residence at Virtuous, for a practical discussion of key fundraising benchmarks as part of the Nonprofit 101 series. Carly shares insights from Virtuous’ latest Benchmark Report, highlighting key fundraising metrics like donor retention, average gift size, and recurring giving—plus new tools such as "days to second gift," case studies, and a board-ready presentation deck. With an emphasis on data-driven decision-making, Carly encourages fundraisers—especially those just starting out—to view their work through a business lens and understand how tracking the right metrics can help organizations build sustainable donor relationships, break down internal silos, and ultimately increase impact.
Get free nonprofit professional development resources, connections to cause work peers, and more at https://nonprofithub.org
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Visit pledgeitorg slashnonprofithub to learn more.
(00:26):
Welcome back to the NonprofitHub podcast.
I'm your host, megan Spear,joined today by Carly Berna,
who's the fundraiser inresidence at Virtuous, has a
long fundraising background toherself, so I'm excited to dig
in specifically on this episodeas part of our Nonprofit 101
series, kind of getting back tothe basics.
I'm excited to dig in withCarly today on Virtuous'
benchmark report.
So it is part of our Nonprofit101 series, kind of getting back
to the basics.
I'm excited to dig in withCarly today on Virtuous'
(00:47):
Benchmark Report because I think, especially when we start out
in fundraising, there's so manythings to track and watch and
look at.
Trying to keep them allstraight and decide what should
be the priority can really be alittle bit overwhelming,
especially as you're juststarting out.
So I think this is a greattopic for this series.
So, carly, welcome in, thanks.
Thanks for having me.
(01:08):
Great to be here.
Yeah, I'm excited.
So tell us a little bit aboutyour background.
I know as a fundraiser you'vegot a lot of experience, so
share a little bit about how youcame to Virtuous and kind of
your background a little bit aswe dig in today.
Sure.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
So I was in the fundraising space for over 10
years.
I was the chief marketing anddevelopment officer at a $30
million nonprofit in Phoenix.
Three years into that journey Ihad to switch CRMs because I
just felt like we weren'tgetting the fundraising power we
really needed from our CRM.
So I went through the processof choosing Virtuous amongst
(01:41):
other CRMs and then I was aseven-year Virtuous customer
before I.
I joined virtuous last year andyou know, like you said, like I
love to be able to use myfundraising knowledge to
actually apply it to the productand speak to our customers in a
way that really makes sense tothem, because I've literally
been sitting in their seats,yeah that's great.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
So I I saw the virtuous benchmark report last
year, got to see a little bit ofthe this year version at the
Responsive Summit last week.
So tell me what the biggestdifference is from, maybe for
someone who read last year's andis now looking at this one.
What maybe changed?
What's new?
What are you most excited aboutin this new one, before we dig
(02:23):
into the actual results?
Speaker 2 (02:24):
new.
What are you most excited aboutin this new one?
Before we dig into the actualresults, yeah, I'll also just
add like last year wasVirtuous's first benchmark
report and when I came toVirtuous I told Gabe, like, hey,
I've been reading all the otherCRMs benchmark reports for
years because you don't have abenchmark report.
And for me as a fundraiser,like benchmark reports were so
important because I needed to beable to tell my board like this
is where we stand according tothe industry, as they would say
(02:47):
to me well, our donor retentionshould be this high.
And I'd be like well, why doyou think that?
Like, you're just kind ofpulling that number out of
nowhere.
So that's kind of how itstarted.
But this year there are a couplethings changed.
In the benchmark report weadded a new metric which is days
to second gift.
Last year we looked at first tosecond gift conversion rate,
which we looked at this yearalso.
But I feel like, looking atdays to second gift, you can
(03:08):
really measure that and tell,hey, how can I improve that?
What do I need to do with thenew donor welcome series?
Like getting someone to asecond gift is like a huge
milestone and gets them tocontinue to stay with the
organization.
We also added in customer casestudies of those who have like
improved their average gift ortheir donor retention or
whatever just kind of seeinglike what they actually did to
(03:30):
make those improvements.
And then two other resources.
One is kind of like an engaginghealth check tool where you can
put in a couple metricsyourself and then see where you
fall.
And then the last one is aboard deck resource that we made
.
We actually made like aPowerPoint presentation that any
nonprofit could take and showtheir board and be like this is
(03:52):
where we're at compared to theindustry.
I used to always take benchmarkreports and like put them in my
board presentations and be likehere's where we're at, here's
where the industry is.
So we just kind of did that foryou.
So if you wanted to show yourboard like, hey, here's the
areas that we're at, here'swhere the industry is, so we
just kind of did that for you.
So if you wanted to show yourboard like, hey, here's the
areas that we're doing great at,here's the areas to improve and
here's what we need to do,along with like recommendations
(04:13):
or resource asks, just to makethat conversation super simple.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
I love that.
So, keeping in mind this aspart of Nonprofit 101, right
back to the basics.
So, for somebody who's maybenew to their fundraising career,
what are your recommendationsout of the report of maybe the
top three metrics?
If you're just starting out,what are those top three that we
really want to focus on and howdo we track them?
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Yeah, I would say probably.
The first one is donorretention, which is like I'm
kind of surprised.
I'm saying that myself becauseas a fundraiser, I paid
attention to a lot of metricsand donor retention always
wasn't at the top, because thatisn't always the number that I'm
being pushed by other people inthe organization.
They don't really know whatdonor retention is.
(04:58):
So, yeah, not paying attentionto it, but really it's the
number of donors that arestaying on the file this year
that we're giving last year.
So how many are you retaining?
Obviously, this is superimportant because if you're not
retaining them, like, you'rehaving to fill your funnel with
new donors all the time and it'sreally expensive to do that and
it's always easier to engage adonor that's on the file, Like
(05:20):
right now.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
You know they've already bought in and now you
just need to figure out how toget them to be more engaged with
your mission I agree with thatand I I'm actually really
excited that we're, that theindustry as a whole is focused
on retention more, because Ithink you're right for the
longest time it was.
It was not a metric we talkedabout, but it is so critical to
(05:42):
the overall health of yourfundraising program.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Yeah, the second I would say is average gift and
really because it's a numberthat you can change without
changing your donor volume.
So a lot of times you knowwe're like, oh, we need new
donors, we need new donors.
Actually, if you just improveyour average gift or the average
giving of your current donorslike we just looked at donor
(06:09):
retention many are staying onthe file.
Now, of the ones staying on thefile, how much are they giving
year over year and can you justupgrade them?
Can you just improve that andthat will increase your revenue
without trying to again fill thefunnel with more and more new
donors.
Nice, and then last and daverayleigh will thank me for this.
But recurring giving, yes, Ijust.
I mean, we've been talkingabout it for what feels like a
(06:31):
decade now, but it I just feellike it really is like such a
sustainable, predictable revenuesource and nonprofits that
don't have like a brandedmonthly program are really
missing out on really easyrevenue and just getting donors
to really engage in a way wherethey want to continue giving.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
I, yes, shout out Dave.
He's been on the podcast twicenow talking about this.
So, yes, wholeheartedly go backand check out those episodes as
well.
But going back, I just thoughtabout this going back to the
average gift metric, one of thethings that I thought was so
smart coming out of ResponsiveSummit.
Somebody had shared about howthat impacts.
(07:12):
Then your ask yeah, talk alittle bit about that.
Once you actually know thatnumber, how does that impact?
Maybe your online giving forms,your direct mail asks what does
that influence look like?
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Yeah, giving forms.
Your direct mail asks what doesthat influence look like?
Yeah, in the report we actuallymeasured average gift, median
gift and online average, for avariety of reasons.
Median gift is kind of likethat number that your donors
give.
It's really the gift right inthe middle.
So what do they give?
On it all the time, I guess.
But that number, I feel like,is the perfect number to anchor
your asks around.
That number, I feel like, isthe perfect number to anchor
(07:46):
your asks around.
So, let's say, your median giftis $50.
Don't start your donation format $20.
If most of your donors aregiving $50, like, start it at
$50.
And that can be a really greatupgrade strategy.
And then, like I said, we alsolooked at online average gift
because we wanted to see thedifference between just like
offline average and onlineaverage, as well as like, which
was growing, which wasn't.
(08:07):
Online.
Average gift would say a lotabout what you just mentioned of
like how are your donationforms working?
What are the asks?
Are you doing upgrade asks?
Like, if they go off the form?
Like are you saying, hey, howabout a you know a $20 ask, or
whatever?
I just think it says a lot tolike your online storytelling,
(08:29):
your donation amounts, your aska raise so you can look at it in
different ways, but be lookingat some version of like what
your donors are giving everyyear so that you can figure out
how to adjust that year overyear.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
So good.
And then do you, do you guyshave a recommendation around
online versus direct mail, doyou?
Do you generally see people dothe same asks on those appeals
yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
So what's great about online?
Um well and I mean you can dothis with with direct mail too I
would just would say thatpeople aren't doing this online
as much as if you have a, likean online giving page that is
connected to your CRM and youcan actually change every single
ask array according to thatdonor history.
That's really how you canaffect that online average gift.
(09:10):
So someone comes on your page.
Their average gift is $1,000.
Don't ask them for a $10 gift.
Adjust the ask arrayaccordingly, or vice versa.
Their average gift is $10.
Don't ask them for a $1,000gift.
So if you are actuallyconnecting that data and making
it super personalized, that canbe great for online average gift
.
I feel like in direct mail,we've kind of been doing that
(09:31):
for decades.
Like we changed the ask arraybased on you know their last
gift or whatever calculationyou're using, and then use a
multiplier and you get that.
But online, I feel like noteveryone has the technology to
like connect their CRM and theirdonation forms together.
So we need to actually learnfrom our direct mail which I
wouldn't often say, but it'ssomething we've been doing in
(09:52):
direct mail that we should bedoing online also.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
That's great.
So for somebody who, again, isjust starting out first
fundraising job, there are someof these metrics I feel like are
words that they might not evenbe familiar with.
Yeah Right, so let's just likebaseline, get on the same page.
What are some of those terms inthere that you see of?
Like you know, I wish someonewould have explained this to me
(10:16):
when I was first starting out sothat I would have started
stronger.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
One thing I will say about this benchmark report is
we explain, like, thecalculation for every report, we
explain why it matters, weexplain how to improve it.
So we obviously like can't getinto all that in 30 minutes, but
for those that download it,like it's it's really supposed
to be a helpful tool to afundraiser.
That's like I don't know whereto start or what to look at.
But I would say, like even thewords retention and acquisition,
(10:45):
I really didn't know what theymeant.
Acquisition is acquiring newdonors, so that's a metric we
look at in here too.
But if you think about you have100 donors.
They're not going to continueto give year over year, like
some are going to stop giving,so you need to acquire, add new
donors to that bucket of 100donors.
At the same time, retention iskeeping those donors that you
(11:07):
already have.
So it's really a balancebetween how much you're
retaining and how much you'reacquiring.
I don't think I really quiteunderstood that when I started.
I was just like we need to getmore donors, more donors, like
all the time, but not like, oh,I could also pay attention to
retaining my current donors.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
And what does it look like to do that?
Yeah, and I think part of thatis kind of the pressure that
comes with the job, right?
Yeah, you're going to be drivento get more donors.
Yes, whether that's from yourboss, the board, etc.
So it is a little bit of abalancing act on some of those
pressures.
But I think it's interesting tothink about if somebody who's
coming in and I would love yourfeedback as someone who's been
(11:51):
in the field if someone iscoming in brand new, maybe, to
an organization that hasn't beentracking anything, or who
doesn't have any sort of systemin place for that, and is on
that just like old school we gotto get more.
We got to get more.
Where would you suggest theystart in terms of, like,
introducing change or how do wego about getting away from the?
(12:14):
This is how we've always doneit if you're brand new to an
organization that way.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Yeah, you know, I was at an organization that was 50
plus years old and they hadnever tracked cost to acquire.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
Yeah, and that was that.
That feels like the basics,yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
That was honestly really unlocking for us.
And what that means cost toacquire is if you look at like
let's just look at digital, say,you spent twenty thousand
dollars and you acquired tenthousand, which would be an
amazing number but I'm justusing round numbers here like
saying how much it costs toacquire a new donor on each
channel should really speakvolumes into what you're doing.
(12:54):
If you're just focusing ongetting new donors but you have
no idea how much it costs to geteach one, like you're not
really making smart fundraisingdecisions.
I'm super passionate about costto acquire an ltb.
I think it's like the biggestunlock to all of fundraising but
you know what it costs to get anew donor and you know how much
that donor is going to giveover your lifetime.
(13:14):
It's just, I mean, it's simplebusiness but like I think
sometimes we're so focused on,like you said, like what's our
active donor count and likenumbers that are more like
vanity metrics, like reallyunderstanding your cost per
donor and how much that donor isgoing to give over their
lifetime by channel I cost perdonor and how much that donor is
going to give over theirlifetime by channel I think is
like that could be the smartestthing for a beginning fundraiser
(13:35):
, because you can know oh, Ishould not be spending on this
channel, even though we get ahuge quantity of donors, the
quality is very low, so let'sswitch over to digital or
whatever other channel that isworking for us.
If I could have one metric tooperate all my fundraising off
of and know nothing else, itwould be that Cost to acquire
(13:56):
donors and lifetime value ofthose donors.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
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(14:25):
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(14:50):
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I'm sure folks who have listenedto the podcast for any length
of time now are probably sick ofme saying this one thing, but
it echoes of what you just said,and that is that nonprofit is
nothing but a tax status.
You still have to run it like abusiness, and that means each
individual, individualdepartment has to run like a
business, and if you are notable to make those smart
(15:10):
decisions that are data informed, then you're not running like a
business.
And if you are not able to makethose smart decisions that are
data informed, then you're notrunning like a business.
Right, and that is the hill Iwill die on.
It is just attack status.
We've got to change thatthinking and embrace smart
decision-making.
Yeah, totally agree with that.
Yeah, so were there, within someof the other metrics that you
(15:32):
guys have looked at, one of thethings that I think can be
problematic in nonprofits ingeneral and it's probably true
in for-profit companies is howmuch this data is siloed Within
the metrics that we should betracking.
Are there ways to make surethat we're including everybody
in those decisions?
(15:52):
Do you know what I mean?
Like, if there are, I feel likesometimes marketing has their
own things that they're lookingat and fundraising, donor
development, has things they'relooking at, and even sometimes
within development teams you'vegot metrics that just major
gifts are looking at versusannual fund folks, back and
forth.
Do you have some thoughts onhow we can start to break down
(16:14):
those silos within the data tomake sure that everybody has a
big, the whole picture?
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Yeah, I think that's a great question.
One of the things that we oftensay is, like these seven
metrics we're looking at arereally all pieces of a puzzle.
Like you can't look at donorretention without looking at
donor acquisition and looking atdonor expansion and all of that
.
One of the metrics we have inhere that would probably be good
to define because it's also aword I probably wouldn't have
known when I started fundraisingis portfolio balance, and what
(16:41):
we're looking at there is likethe balance of your entire donor
file how much are generaldonors versus mid-level donors
versus major donors, generaldonors versus mid-level donors
versus major donors?
And this, I feel like, is superkey to breaking down silos,
because all we look at is, well,how much is the major donor
team doing?
Like, just in their silodoesn't really say anything
(17:02):
about the whole organization.
You're really looking for likea literally a balanced portfolio
.
So, again, thinking back tolike a finance thought, you know
you want to diversify yourrevenue streams.
You don't want, like, 90% majordonors or 90% general donors,
so you're really looking for abalance between those three.
I love this metric because Idon't often see it on benchmark
(17:23):
reports, so I think it gives somuch insight into like, oh,
maybe we shouldn't be paying somuch attention to major donors,
maybe we should be thinkingabout how to upgrade general
into mid-level donors or midinto major.
And that's not saying like themajor donor team is bad or doing
something wrong, but it'ssaying like let's think about
the health of the revenue of thewhole organization and where we
(17:45):
should be focusing.
So I think some of thosemetrics should bring
conversations like that betweenmarketing, fundraising and
development, where sometimesit's like fighting over dollars
to say, okay, we all want agreater mission here.
Like that's really what we'retrying to do is grow an
organization.
And what does that look like,based on, like, what we're
seeing with the way our donorsare balanced?
Speaker 1 (18:05):
That's so good.
So that brings up anotherquestion, though, especially, I
think, as folks are maybestarting out.
So that brings up anotherquestion, though, especially I
think, as folks are maybestarting out One.
I do think it's interesting tosay like that department will be
called so many things Just inthe course of your sentence.
We've called it marketing anddevelopment, which are the same
Stewardship.
There's so many ways that weuse this word, so, yes,
(18:27):
interchangeable, which justcracks me up, but I think the
interesting piece of that whenwe talk about major gift,
mid-level donor, general, onlinedonors, we tend to think about
that in the sense of a funnel,right, and we've talked a couple
of times in here about theupgrade idea.
(18:48):
If you were just starting out,what are some basics of ways
that people can upgrade from oneto another, help to move those
folks down the pipeline?
What are some suggestions thatyou would have in that regard?
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Yeah, Also.
I'll just add like philanthropyis the new hot word to call
this department.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
That's true.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Yeah, always a new word.
We're talking about the new,the exact same department.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Yes.
And then what's the other?
If you're in higher ed, it'sadvancement.
Yes, advancement services, yeah, for sure, yes.
So many things for just oneword.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
I mean I think it's important to think about taking
someone from general to mid andthen mid to major.
So you know some of the thingswe already talked about, like
even just having something onyour donation form, that's, are
you willing to upgrade whatever50 extra dollars to pay for this
well that we're doing in africa, or whatever, like just just
seeing if someone would respondto that.
(19:43):
The thing that we did was thatwe set like notifications within
our CRM that would tell us ifsomeone had just like given an
extra gift or a higher amount.
So, like I personally got anotification every time someone
gave a thousand dollar gift andI would go look at that record
and I would be like, okay,should this remain a general
(20:04):
donor or should I move this to amid-level rep?
Because sometimes those peoplelike I often say like mid-levels
get lost.
Like those mid-level donors,they're like gen x.
You know, we care aboutmillennials, we care about baby
boomers and we look right overeveryone.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Everyone wants to ignore us.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
It's fine, yeah um, but sometimes, like if someone
gives a thousand dollar gift,we're like you know a thousand
dollars, whatever.
But like that could be someonesaying like hey, I'm a little
bit more interested.
So just I would literallyglance at the record, maybe
decide how I felt about likemaybe they should look at their
wealth score and then assignthem, or not Like just taking
(20:42):
that extra time to be like, okay, is this someone who's ready
for that next level and shouldthey be cultivated a little
differently?
And same thing from mid-levelto major donors.
Like what are the?
Just think about, like the keysthat they're trying to tell you
by the actions that they'retaking.
Maybe they give a $5,000 giftand they've never given a $5,000
gift before.
(21:02):
Is it time to upgrade them?
What is it you're doing in yourupgrade strategy besides just
tactics?
Tactics, you know, sending thema major donor appeal and seeing
if they'll give differently or,like I said, online upgrades,
but paying attention to thebehavior, like they're literally
telling you a story by theirbehavior and if we just ignore
that or we don't have time tolook at it or whatever, we're
(21:25):
missing out on those upgradeopportunities.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
I am curious because I think this is maybe somewhere
where people could get stuck,especially if they're just
starting out.
It would be lovely if we couldsit here and say, across the
board, mid-level is X dollars toX dollars, major gift is
anything above X X dollars,general is below X dollars, and
that is just the formula that weuse industry-wide.
(21:49):
Welcome in, right, but that'sso.
Specific organization toorganization yes, let's talk
about how we, how we even figureout what that should look like
in our organizations.
Yeah, yeah, we can't have abalanced portfolio unless we
know what those designationslook like.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
That's a great point I mean, I worked somewhere where
I think we talked aboutchanging the definitions like
every few years.
Yeah, like, is a major donor a10 day giver or is it cumulative
?
Is it a single gift?
Yeah, so the way we defined itin the report and then I'll talk
about like general nonprofits,is general donors were under
$1,000 giving mid-level Annually.
(22:29):
Yes, mid-level was $1,000 to$9,999.
And then major was $10,000 plus.
But I would say, for yourorganization, you should almost
like look at a bell curve ofwhat type of gifts your donors
are giving.
Because, say, your organizationhas massive major donors and,
like your major donors should be25K plus because you're a
(22:51):
really major donor focusedorganization or you're not.
You're like much smallergeneral donor organization and
like someone giving 5K is amajor donor.
Like it really depends whatyour donor file looks like.
Because if you just say, ohwell, no one gives 25K, so we
have no major donor, like itreally depends what your donor
file looks like.
Because if you just say, ohwell, no one gives 25K, so we
have no major donors, well thenyou're ignoring what are your
major donors.
Yeah, so I would look at likealmost, like I said, like a bell
(23:13):
curve of like where do youwhere what are the high ends,
what are the low ends, anddetermine what your general mid
and major donor levels are?
And they can change over time,because maybe your goal is like,
hey, let's get more people into10k plus, and then you have to
redefine okay, now our majordonors are 10k plus.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
Nice.
So within that and again theway that we talk about things,
so you have general donors.
I heard somebody say one timethat the general human
population does not walk aroundwith.
You know, when we all go tothese conferences and you get
your name tag and then you havelike the ribbons below it.
Yeah, yeah, the general humanpopulation does not walk around
(23:50):
with little ribbons that saythings like mid-level donor laps
.
Donor online giver.
Annual fund donor eventattendee right, we don't walk
around with these little ribbonsthat we as an industry tend to
like slap people into, and so Ithink maybe that's the other, at
least for me.
The other takeaway is, like allof those things are internal.
(24:12):
Yes, I, I attended and I'msaying that because I attended a
mid-level event one time for anorganization that I support and
it had, like the, thefundraising staff, the
development staff had veryclearly been told like these are
the people that you're tryingto elevate to that next level,
yeah, and you could see them.
(24:32):
At one point I overheard one ofthem talking to a friend of
mine about becoming a majordonor and like these are not,
these are not outside terms, no,right.
So I want to just kind ofclarify that everything we've
talked about today, yeah, isyour internal conversation with
you, with your team, within yourorganization.
This is not how we approachpeople.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Yeah, I mean, you don't put dear major donor on
your letter and I actually likenot to get on a rabbit trail,
but like I hate the title majorgift officer.
We often say, like mgos, majorgift officers, like Like if I'm
a donor, I don't really want tobe talking to the major gift
officer.
That doesn't really meananything to me at all.
That's why you see more titlesthat are like I don't even know,
(25:16):
like nonprofit representativeor like whatever, just something
that isn't like major giftofficer.
But yeah, totally all internaltitles, like I wouldn't even
tell a major donor they were amajor donor.
Which is why sometimes you seenonprofits have like major donor
programs, like champions andpresident circle and things like
that.
So you say to them like hey, wevalue you, you have exclusive
(25:38):
access, whatever.
But we're not calling you likea major donor.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
Yeah, I just yeah that as we were talking about.
I'm like I especially if we'retalking about people that are
new to the fundraising space Ijust really want to put that
shell around it.
These are internal only, kind ofterms.
Yes, for sure.
So I'm curious.
We're almost out of time, butI'm curious.
Think back to when you werejust starting out your first
(26:03):
fundraising gig.
What is it that you really wishsomeone would have told you up
front?
What is that piece?
Or what have you learned overthe course that you're like man.
If I would have just had thatknowledge 15, 20 years ago, what
does that look like?
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
I feel like you already said it, which is that a
nonprofit is just a tax status,because I was really just like
trying to figure out, like okay,I'm a fundraiser, I'm supposed
to raise money.
Okay, like, let's just doeverything I can to raise money.
But really, like there was aton of data at my disposal that
I had no idea what to do withand I wasn't thinking about it
(26:39):
from like a business perspectiveof you know, let me look at our
revenue and which areas weshould look at.
Like I was just like I'm hereto raise money and like put out
social media posts and just likedo whatever.
But I wasn't thinking about itLike you were saying, like hey,
my department is a business unitthat I own and like what can I
specifically do to grow thisbusiness unit?
(26:59):
Like you really have to putlike your business data hat on
and be like what does this looklike?
I think that would have helpedme and, honestly, like I'm glad
you're doing this podcastbecause I didn't.
At the time I did not feel likethere was a place where I could
go and be like here's nonprofit101 for data metrics.
Like I just was trying to learnhonestly from mainly
fundraising agencies becausethey were the ones putting out
(27:22):
like the most material.
Tell me about these metrics andwhat I can do with them.
Like I just tried to lean inand all the ways I could from
that perspective because Ididn't feel like there was great
resources for that.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Yeah, no, I am excited.
I mean, obviously that's whynonprofit hub exists in the
first place is that we havethese resources, but I'm really
excited about this series,specifically for folks who are
in that exact same spot.
So, to that end, how do we findVirtuous's benchmarking report?
If you have show notes, I canput a link.
(27:53):
Fantastic, yes, we will link itthere.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Drop it in there.
But, like, if you go on theVirtuous website, we have under
resources, all the benchmarkreports.
We also in June I don't knowwhen this episode is dropping,
but in June we have verticalbenchmark reports too.
So, like, if you're in faith,healthcare, human services or
education we have differentversions for each, just because
some of them are really specific.
Recurring giving is more commonin faith than it is in
(28:19):
healthcare, where someone givesbecause an event happens in
their life and now they nevergive again.
Like, donor retention is sodifferent in healthcare than it
is in education when, like,you're an alumni and you never
give again or whatever.
So, like, looking at it byvertical is really important too
, just so you can make sureyou're benchmarking against the
most niche version of your data.
(28:40):
But I'll send you the links andyou can put them in there of
your data.
But I'll send you the links andyou can put them in there.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
Fantastic.
We'll definitely link that inthe show notes and on our social
media pages as well.
This will drop in July, so bythe time folks are hearing about
it, those niche lines will beout for sure.
Cool, that's great.
Awesome, carly.
The closing question that I'vebeen asking everybody on this
season is if you could give onepiece of advice to nonprofit
(29:05):
leaders, what would that be?
This has obviously been likekind of a crazy year for
nonprofits in general, butespecially for those leaders.
If you could give them onepiece of advice or encouragement
, what would that look like?
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Yeah, that's a good question.
I think sometimes we can getreally wrapped up in the numbers
Like how do we improve this,how do we improve that?
You know all of those things.
But like the encouragement Iwould give is like what you're
doing not many people get to do,which is work at an
organization that has an amazingmission that you obviously care
about.
If you're working there, Likedon't lose sight of that.
(29:41):
Yeah, maybe your recurringgiving number is down or your
revenue is down or whatever, butlike you're doing great work
and like the world needs you todo that great work, so don't
lose sight of that.
And you said nonprofit leaders,but tell your staff the same
thing.
Yeah, Like there's a balancebetween the pressure of let's do
better, to let's keep doingthis thing that we're doing that
(30:03):
is affecting our community orour state or our country or
whatever, Because withoutnonprofits there's no one else
out there solving problemsthat's what nonprofits are doing
is solving problems, so focuson that.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
So good Love that word, curly.
Thank you, appreciate youcoming in and sharing the
benchmark report with us today.
I think that's going to be agreat resource, especially for
our nonprofit one-on-one friendsthat are just starting out
Awesome.
Yeah, thanks for having me.
Yeah Again.
My guest has been Carly Berna,who's the fundraiser in
residence at Virtuous.
This has been another episodeof the Nonprofit Hub Radio
(30:35):
Podcast.
I'm your host, megan Spear, andwe'll see you next time.
Bye.
Pledge.
It is designed for nonprofitfundraising professionals who
need comprehensive eventmanagement without the learning
curve.
Our intuitive platform handlesgalas, golf tournaments,
peer-to-peer fundraising andauctions, with built-in
automation and progressdashboards.
No technical expertise required.
Visit pledgeitorg slashnonprofithub to learn more.
(00:26):
Welcome back to the NonprofitHub podcast.
I'm your host, megan Spear,joined today by Carly Berna,
who's the fundraiser inresidence at Virtuous, has a
long fundraising background toherself, so I'm excited to dig
in specifically on this episodeas part of our Nonprofit 101
series, kind of getting back tothe basics.
I'm excited to dig in withCarly today on Virtuous'
benchmark report.
So it is part of our Nonprofit101 series, kind of getting back
to the basics.
I'm excited to dig in withCarly today on Virtuous'
(00:47):
Benchmark Report because I think, especially when we start out
in fundraising, there's so manythings to track and watch and
look at.
Trying to keep them allstraight and decide what should
be the priority can really be alittle bit overwhelming,
especially as you're juststarting out.
So I think this is a greattopic for this series.
So, carly, welcome in, thanks.
Thanks for having me.
(01:08):
Great to be here.
Yeah, I'm excited.
So tell us a little bit aboutyour background.
I know as a fundraiser you'vegot a lot of experience, so
share a little bit about how youcame to Virtuous and kind of
your background a little bit aswe dig in today.
Sure.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
So I was in the fundraising space for over 10
years.
I was the chief marketing anddevelopment officer at a $30
million nonprofit in Phoenix.
Three years into that journey Ihad to switch CRMs because I
just felt like we weren'tgetting the fundraising power we
really needed from our CRM.
So I went through the processof choosing Virtuous amongst
(01:41):
other CRMs and then I was aseven-year Virtuous customer
before I.
I joined virtuous last year andyou know, like you said, like I
love to be able to use myfundraising knowledge to
actually apply it to the productand speak to our customers in a
way that really makes sense tothem, because I've literally
been sitting in their seats,yeah that's great.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
So I I saw the virtuous benchmark report last
year, got to see a little bit ofthe this year version at the
Responsive Summit last week.
So tell me what the biggestdifference is from, maybe for
someone who read last year's andis now looking at this one.
What maybe changed?
What's new?
What are you most excited aboutin this new one, before we dig
(02:23):
into the actual results?
Speaker 2 (02:24):
new.
What are you most excited aboutin this new one?
Before we dig into the actualresults, yeah, I'll also just
add like last year wasVirtuous's first benchmark
report and when I came toVirtuous I told Gabe, like, hey,
I've been reading all the otherCRMs benchmark reports for
years because you don't have abenchmark report.
And for me as a fundraiser,like benchmark reports were so
important because I needed to beable to tell my board like this
is where we stand according tothe industry, as they would say
(02:47):
to me well, our donor retentionshould be this high.
And I'd be like well, why doyou think that?
Like, you're just kind ofpulling that number out of
nowhere.
So that's kind of how itstarted.
But this year there are a couplethings changed.
In the benchmark report weadded a new metric which is days
to second gift.
Last year we looked at first tosecond gift conversion rate,
which we looked at this yearalso.
But I feel like, looking atdays to second gift, you can
(03:08):
really measure that and tell,hey, how can I improve that?
What do I need to do with thenew donor welcome series?
Like getting someone to asecond gift is like a huge
milestone and gets them tocontinue to stay with the
organization.
We also added in customer casestudies of those who have like
improved their average gift ortheir donor retention or
whatever just kind of seeinglike what they actually did to
(03:30):
make those improvements.
And then two other resources.
One is kind of like an engaginghealth check tool where you can
put in a couple metricsyourself and then see where you
fall.
And then the last one is aboard deck resource that we made
.
We actually made like aPowerPoint presentation that any
nonprofit could take and showtheir board and be like this is
(03:52):
where we're at compared to theindustry.
I used to always take benchmarkreports and like put them in my
board presentations and be likehere's where we're at, here's
where the industry is.
So we just kind of did that foryou.
So if you wanted to show yourboard like, hey, here's the
areas that we're at, here'swhere the industry is, so we
just kind of did that for you.
So if you wanted to show yourboard like, hey, here's the
areas that we're doing great at,here's the areas to improve and
here's what we need to do,along with like recommendations
(04:13):
or resource asks, just to makethat conversation super simple.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
I love that.
So, keeping in mind this aspart of Nonprofit 101, right
back to the basics.
So, for somebody who's maybenew to their fundraising career,
what are your recommendationsout of the report of maybe the
top three metrics?
If you're just starting out,what are those top three that we
really want to focus on and howdo we track them?
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Yeah, I would say probably.
The first one is donorretention, which is like I'm
kind of surprised.
I'm saying that myself becauseas a fundraiser, I paid
attention to a lot of metricsand donor retention always
wasn't at the top, because thatisn't always the number that I'm
being pushed by other people inthe organization.
They don't really know whatdonor retention is.
(04:58):
So, yeah, not paying attentionto it, but really it's the
number of donors that arestaying on the file this year
that we're giving last year.
So how many are you retaining?
Obviously, this is superimportant because if you're not
retaining them, like, you'rehaving to fill your funnel with
new donors all the time and it'sreally expensive to do that and
it's always easier to engage adonor that's on the file, Like
(05:20):
right now.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
You know they've already bought in and now you
just need to figure out how toget them to be more engaged with
your mission I agree with thatand I I'm actually really
excited that we're, that theindustry as a whole is focused
on retention more, because Ithink you're right for the
longest time it was.
It was not a metric we talkedabout, but it is so critical to
(05:42):
the overall health of yourfundraising program.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Yeah, the second I would say is average gift and
really because it's a numberthat you can change without
changing your donor volume.
So a lot of times you knowwe're like, oh, we need new
donors, we need new donors.
Actually, if you just improveyour average gift or the average
giving of your current donorslike we just looked at donor
(06:09):
retention many are staying onthe file.
Now, of the ones staying on thefile, how much are they giving
year over year and can you justupgrade them?
Can you just improve that andthat will increase your revenue
without trying to again fill thefunnel with more and more new
donors.
Nice, and then last and daverayleigh will thank me for this.
But recurring giving, yes, Ijust.
I mean, we've been talkingabout it for what feels like a
(06:31):
decade now, but it I just feellike it really is like such a
sustainable, predictable revenuesource and nonprofits that
don't have like a brandedmonthly program are really
missing out on really easyrevenue and just getting donors
to really engage in a way wherethey want to continue giving.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
I, yes, shout out Dave.
He's been on the podcast twicenow talking about this.
So, yes, wholeheartedly go backand check out those episodes as
well.
But going back, I just thoughtabout this going back to the
average gift metric, one of thethings that I thought was so
smart coming out of ResponsiveSummit.
Somebody had shared about howthat impacts.
(07:12):
Then your ask yeah, talk alittle bit about that.
Once you actually know thatnumber, how does that impact?
Maybe your online giving forms,your direct mail asks what does
that influence look like?
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Yeah, giving forms.
Your direct mail asks what doesthat influence look like?
Yeah, in the report we actuallymeasured average gift, median
gift and online average, for avariety of reasons.
Median gift is kind of likethat number that your donors
give.
It's really the gift right inthe middle.
So what do they give?
On it all the time, I guess.
But that number, I feel like,is the perfect number to anchor
your asks around.
That number, I feel like, isthe perfect number to anchor
(07:46):
your asks around.
So, let's say, your median giftis $50.
Don't start your donation format $20.
If most of your donors aregiving $50, like, start it at
$50.
And that can be a really greatupgrade strategy.
And then, like I said, we alsolooked at online average gift
because we wanted to see thedifference between just like
offline average and onlineaverage, as well as like, which
was growing, which wasn't.
(08:07):
Online.
Average gift would say a lotabout what you just mentioned of
like how are your donationforms working?
What are the asks?
Are you doing upgrade asks?
Like, if they go off the form?
Like are you saying, hey, howabout a you know a $20 ask, or
whatever?
I just think it says a lot tolike your online storytelling,
(08:29):
your donation amounts, your aska raise so you can look at it in
different ways, but be lookingat some version of like what
your donors are giving everyyear so that you can figure out
how to adjust that year overyear.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
So good.
And then do you, do you guyshave a recommendation around
online versus direct mail, doyou?
Do you generally see people dothe same asks on those appeals
yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
So what's great about online?
Um well and I mean you can dothis with with direct mail too I
would just would say thatpeople aren't doing this online
as much as if you have a, likean online giving page that is
connected to your CRM and youcan actually change every single
ask array according to thatdonor history.
That's really how you canaffect that online average gift.
(09:10):
So someone comes on your page.
Their average gift is $1,000.
Don't ask them for a $10 gift.
Adjust the ask arrayaccordingly, or vice versa.
Their average gift is $10.
Don't ask them for a $1,000gift.
So if you are actuallyconnecting that data and making
it super personalized, that canbe great for online average gift
.
I feel like in direct mail,we've kind of been doing that
(09:31):
for decades.
Like we changed the ask arraybased on you know their last
gift or whatever calculationyou're using, and then use a
multiplier and you get that.
But online, I feel like noteveryone has the technology to
like connect their CRM and theirdonation forms together.
So we need to actually learnfrom our direct mail which I
wouldn't often say, but it'ssomething we've been doing in
(09:52):
direct mail that we should bedoing online also.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
That's great.
So for somebody who, again, isjust starting out first
fundraising job, there are someof these metrics I feel like are
words that they might not evenbe familiar with.
Yeah Right, so let's just likebaseline, get on the same page.
What are some of those terms inthere that you see of?
Like you know, I wish someonewould have explained this to me
(10:16):
when I was first starting out sothat I would have started
stronger.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
One thing I will say about this benchmark report is
we explain, like, thecalculation for every report, we
explain why it matters, weexplain how to improve it.
So we obviously like can't getinto all that in 30 minutes, but
for those that download it,like it's it's really supposed
to be a helpful tool to afundraiser.
That's like I don't know whereto start or what to look at.
But I would say, like even thewords retention and acquisition,
(10:45):
I really didn't know what theymeant.
Acquisition is acquiring newdonors, so that's a metric we
look at in here too.
But if you think about you have100 donors.
They're not going to continueto give year over year, like
some are going to stop giving,so you need to acquire, add new
donors to that bucket of 100donors.
At the same time, retention iskeeping those donors that you
(11:07):
already have.
So it's really a balancebetween how much you're
retaining and how much you'reacquiring.
I don't think I really quiteunderstood that when I started.
I was just like we need to getmore donors, more donors, like
all the time, but not like, oh,I could also pay attention to
retaining my current donors.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
And what does it look like to do that?
Yeah, and I think part of thatis kind of the pressure that
comes with the job, right?
Yeah, you're going to be drivento get more donors.
Yes, whether that's from yourboss, the board, etc.
So it is a little bit of abalancing act on some of those
pressures.
But I think it's interesting tothink about if somebody who's
coming in and I would love yourfeedback as someone who's been
(11:51):
in the field if someone iscoming in brand new, maybe, to
an organization that hasn't beentracking anything, or who
doesn't have any sort of systemin place for that, and is on
that just like old school we gotto get more.
We got to get more.
Where would you suggest theystart in terms of, like,
introducing change or how do wego about getting away from the?
(12:14):
This is how we've always doneit if you're brand new to an
organization that way.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Yeah, you know, I was at an organization that was 50
plus years old and they hadnever tracked cost to acquire.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
Yeah, and that was that.
That feels like the basics,yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
That was honestly really unlocking for us.
And what that means cost toacquire is if you look at like
let's just look at digital, say,you spent twenty thousand
dollars and you acquired tenthousand, which would be an
amazing number but I'm justusing round numbers here like
saying how much it costs toacquire a new donor on each
channel should really speakvolumes into what you're doing.
(12:54):
If you're just focusing ongetting new donors but you have
no idea how much it costs to geteach one, like you're not
really making smart fundraisingdecisions.
I'm super passionate about costto acquire an ltb.
I think it's like the biggestunlock to all of fundraising but
you know what it costs to get anew donor and you know how much
that donor is going to giveover your lifetime.
(13:14):
It's just, I mean, it's simplebusiness but like I think
sometimes we're so focused on,like you said, like what's our
active donor count and likenumbers that are more like
vanity metrics, like reallyunderstanding your cost per
donor and how much that donor isgoing to give over their
lifetime by channel I cost perdonor and how much that donor is
going to give over theirlifetime by channel I think is
like that could be the smartestthing for a beginning fundraiser
(13:35):
, because you can know oh, Ishould not be spending on this
channel, even though we get ahuge quantity of donors, the
quality is very low, so let'sswitch over to digital or
whatever other channel that isworking for us.
If I could have one metric tooperate all my fundraising off
of and know nothing else, itwould be that Cost to acquire
(13:56):
donors and lifetime value ofthose donors.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
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(14:25):
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I'm sure folks who have listenedto the podcast for any length
of time now are probably sick ofme saying this one thing, but
it echoes of what you just said,and that is that nonprofit is
nothing but a tax status.
You still have to run it like abusiness, and that means each
individual, individualdepartment has to run like a
business, and if you are notable to make those smart
(15:10):
decisions that are data informed, then you're not running like a
business.
And if you are not able to makethose smart decisions that are
data informed, then you're notrunning like a business.
Right, and that is the hill Iwill die on.
It is just attack status.
We've got to change thatthinking and embrace smart
decision-making.
Yeah, totally agree with that.
Yeah, so were there, within someof the other metrics that you
(15:32):
guys have looked at, one of thethings that I think can be
problematic in nonprofits ingeneral and it's probably true
in for-profit companies is howmuch this data is siloed Within
the metrics that we should betracking.
Are there ways to make surethat we're including everybody
in those decisions?
(15:52):
Do you know what I mean?
Like, if there are, I feel likesometimes marketing has their
own things that they're lookingat and fundraising, donor
development, has things they'relooking at, and even sometimes
within development teams you'vegot metrics that just major
gifts are looking at versusannual fund folks, back and
forth.
Do you have some thoughts onhow we can start to break down
(16:14):
those silos within the data tomake sure that everybody has a
big, the whole picture?
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Yeah, I think that's a great question.
One of the things that we oftensay is, like these seven
metrics we're looking at arereally all pieces of a puzzle.
Like you can't look at donorretention without looking at
donor acquisition and looking atdonor expansion and all of that
.
One of the metrics we have inhere that would probably be good
to define because it's also aword I probably wouldn't have
known when I started fundraisingis portfolio balance, and what
(16:41):
we're looking at there is likethe balance of your entire donor
file how much are generaldonors versus mid-level donors
versus major donors, generaldonors versus mid-level donors
versus major donors?
And this, I feel like, is superkey to breaking down silos,
because all we look at is, well,how much is the major donor
team doing?
Like, just in their silodoesn't really say anything
(17:02):
about the whole organization.
You're really looking for likea literally a balanced portfolio
.
So, again, thinking back tolike a finance thought, you know
you want to diversify yourrevenue streams.
You don't want, like, 90% majordonors or 90% general donors,
so you're really looking for abalance between those three.
I love this metric because Idon't often see it on benchmark
(17:23):
reports, so I think it gives somuch insight into like, oh,
maybe we shouldn't be paying somuch attention to major donors,
maybe we should be thinkingabout how to upgrade general
into mid-level donors or midinto major.
And that's not saying like themajor donor team is bad or doing
something wrong, but it'ssaying like let's think about
the health of the revenue of thewhole organization and where we
(17:45):
should be focusing.
So I think some of thosemetrics should bring
conversations like that betweenmarketing, fundraising and
development, where sometimesit's like fighting over dollars
to say, okay, we all want agreater mission here.
Like that's really what we'retrying to do is grow an
organization.
And what does that look like,based on, like, what we're
seeing with the way our donorsare balanced?
Speaker 1 (18:05):
That's so good.
So that brings up anotherquestion, though, especially, I
think, as folks are maybestarting out.
So that brings up anotherquestion, though, especially I
think, as folks are maybestarting out One.
I do think it's interesting tosay like that department will be
called so many things Just inthe course of your sentence.
We've called it marketing anddevelopment, which are the same
Stewardship.
There's so many ways that weuse this word, so, yes,
(18:27):
interchangeable, which justcracks me up, but I think the
interesting piece of that whenwe talk about major gift,
mid-level donor, general, onlinedonors, we tend to think about
that in the sense of a funnel,right, and we've talked a couple
of times in here about theupgrade idea.
(18:48):
If you were just starting out,what are some basics of ways
that people can upgrade from oneto another, help to move those
folks down the pipeline?
What are some suggestions thatyou would have in that regard?
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Yeah, Also.
I'll just add like philanthropyis the new hot word to call
this department.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
That's true.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Yeah, always a new word.
We're talking about the new,the exact same department.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Yes.
And then what's the other?
If you're in higher ed, it'sadvancement.
Yes, advancement services, yeah, for sure, yes.
So many things for just oneword.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
I mean I think it's important to think about taking
someone from general to mid andthen mid to major.
So you know some of the thingswe already talked about, like
even just having something onyour donation form, that's, are
you willing to upgrade whatever50 extra dollars to pay for this
well that we're doing in africa, or whatever, like just just
seeing if someone would respondto that.
(19:43):
The thing that we did was thatwe set like notifications within
our CRM that would tell us ifsomeone had just like given an
extra gift or a higher amount.
So, like I personally got anotification every time someone
gave a thousand dollar gift andI would go look at that record
and I would be like, okay,should this remain a general
(20:04):
donor or should I move this to amid-level rep?
Because sometimes those peoplelike I often say like mid-levels
get lost.
Like those mid-level donors,they're like gen x.
You know, we care aboutmillennials, we care about baby
boomers and we look right overeveryone.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Everyone wants to ignore us.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
It's fine, yeah um, but sometimes, like if someone
gives a thousand dollar gift,we're like you know a thousand
dollars, whatever.
But like that could be someonesaying like hey, I'm a little
bit more interested.
So just I would literallyglance at the record, maybe
decide how I felt about likemaybe they should look at their
wealth score and then assignthem, or not Like just taking
(20:42):
that extra time to be like, okay, is this someone who's ready
for that next level and shouldthey be cultivated a little
differently?
And same thing from mid-levelto major donors.
Like what are the?
Just think about, like the keysthat they're trying to tell you
by the actions that they'retaking.
Maybe they give a $5,000 giftand they've never given a $5,000
gift before.
(21:02):
Is it time to upgrade them?
What is it you're doing in yourupgrade strategy besides just
tactics?
Tactics, you know, sending thema major donor appeal and seeing
if they'll give differently or,like I said, online upgrades,
but paying attention to thebehavior, like they're literally
telling you a story by theirbehavior and if we just ignore
that or we don't have time tolook at it or whatever, we're
(21:25):
missing out on those upgradeopportunities.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
I am curious because I think this is maybe somewhere
where people could get stuck,especially if they're just
starting out.
It would be lovely if we couldsit here and say, across the
board, mid-level is X dollars toX dollars, major gift is
anything above X X dollars,general is below X dollars, and
that is just the formula that weuse industry-wide.
(21:49):
Welcome in, right, but that'sso.
Specific organization toorganization yes, let's talk
about how we, how we even figureout what that should look like
in our organizations.
Yeah, yeah, we can't have abalanced portfolio unless we
know what those designationslook like.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
That's a great point I mean, I worked somewhere where
I think we talked aboutchanging the definitions like
every few years.
Yeah, like, is a major donor a10 day giver or is it cumulative
?
Is it a single gift?
Yeah, so the way we defined itin the report and then I'll talk
about like general nonprofits,is general donors were under
$1,000 giving mid-level Annually.
(22:29):
Yes, mid-level was $1,000 to$9,999.
And then major was $10,000 plus.
But I would say, for yourorganization, you should almost
like look at a bell curve ofwhat type of gifts your donors
are giving.
Because, say, your organizationhas massive major donors and,
like your major donors should be25K plus because you're a
(22:51):
really major donor focusedorganization or you're not.
You're like much smallergeneral donor organization and
like someone giving 5K is amajor donor.
Like it really depends whatyour donor file looks like.
Because if you just say, ohwell, no one gives 25K, so we
have no major donor, like itreally depends what your donor
file looks like.
Because if you just say, ohwell, no one gives 25K, so we
have no major donors, well thenyou're ignoring what are your
major donors.
Yeah, so I would look at likealmost, like I said, like a bell
(23:13):
curve of like where do youwhere what are the high ends,
what are the low ends, anddetermine what your general mid
and major donor levels are?
And they can change over time,because maybe your goal is like,
hey, let's get more people into10k plus, and then you have to
redefine okay, now our majordonors are 10k plus.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
Nice.
So within that and again theway that we talk about things,
so you have general donors.
I heard somebody say one timethat the general human
population does not walk aroundwith.
You know, when we all go tothese conferences and you get
your name tag and then you havelike the ribbons below it.
Yeah, yeah, the general humanpopulation does not walk around
(23:50):
with little ribbons that saythings like mid-level donor laps
.
Donor online giver.
Annual fund donor eventattendee right, we don't walk
around with these little ribbonsthat we as an industry tend to
like slap people into, and so Ithink maybe that's the other, at
least for me.
The other takeaway is, like allof those things are internal.
(24:12):
Yes, I, I attended and I'msaying that because I attended a
mid-level event one time for anorganization that I support and
it had, like the, thefundraising staff, the
development staff had veryclearly been told like these are
the people that you're tryingto elevate to that next level,
yeah, and you could see them.
(24:32):
At one point I overheard one ofthem talking to a friend of
mine about becoming a majordonor and like these are not,
these are not outside terms, no,right.
So I want to just kind ofclarify that everything we've
talked about today, yeah, isyour internal conversation with
you, with your team, within yourorganization.
This is not how we approachpeople.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Yeah, I mean, you don't put dear major donor on
your letter and I actually likenot to get on a rabbit trail,
but like I hate the title majorgift officer.
We often say, like mgos, majorgift officers, like Like if I'm
a donor, I don't really want tobe talking to the major gift
officer.
That doesn't really meananything to me at all.
That's why you see more titlesthat are like I don't even know,
(25:16):
like nonprofit representativeor like whatever, just something
that isn't like major giftofficer.
But yeah, totally all internaltitles, like I wouldn't even
tell a major donor they were amajor donor.
Which is why sometimes you seenonprofits have like major donor
programs, like champions andpresident circle and things like
that.
So you say to them like hey, wevalue you, you have exclusive
(25:38):
access, whatever.
But we're not calling you likea major donor.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
Yeah, I just yeah that as we were talking about.
I'm like I especially if we'retalking about people that are
new to the fundraising space Ijust really want to put that
shell around it.
These are internal only, kind ofterms.
Yes, for sure.
So I'm curious.
We're almost out of time, butI'm curious.
Think back to when you werejust starting out your first
(26:03):
fundraising gig.
What is it that you really wishsomeone would have told you up
front?
What is that piece?
Or what have you learned overthe course that you're like man.
If I would have just had thatknowledge 15, 20 years ago, what
does that look like?
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
I feel like you already said it, which is that a
nonprofit is just a tax status,because I was really just like
trying to figure out, like okay,I'm a fundraiser, I'm supposed
to raise money.
Okay, like, let's just doeverything I can to raise money.
But really, like there was aton of data at my disposal that
I had no idea what to do withand I wasn't thinking about it
(26:39):
from like a business perspectiveof you know, let me look at our
revenue and which areas weshould look at.
Like I was just like I'm hereto raise money and like put out
social media posts and just likedo whatever.
But I wasn't thinking about itLike you were saying, like hey,
my department is a business unitthat I own and like what can I
specifically do to grow thisbusiness unit?
(26:59):
Like you really have to putlike your business data hat on
and be like what does this looklike?
I think that would have helpedme and, honestly, like I'm glad
you're doing this podcastbecause I didn't.
At the time I did not feel likethere was a place where I could
go and be like here's nonprofit101 for data metrics.
Like I just was trying to learnhonestly from mainly
fundraising agencies becausethey were the ones putting out
(27:22):
like the most material.
Tell me about these metrics andwhat I can do with them.
Like I just tried to lean inand all the ways I could from
that perspective because Ididn't feel like there was great
resources for that.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Yeah, no, I am excited.
I mean, obviously that's whynonprofit hub exists in the
first place is that we havethese resources, but I'm really
excited about this series,specifically for folks who are
in that exact same spot.
So, to that end, how do we findVirtuous's benchmarking report?
If you have show notes, I canput a link.
(27:53):
Fantastic, yes, we will link itthere.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Drop it in there.
But, like, if you go on theVirtuous website, we have under
resources, all the benchmarkreports.
We also in June I don't knowwhen this episode is dropping,
but in June we have verticalbenchmark reports too.
So, like, if you're in faith,healthcare, human services or
education we have differentversions for each, just because
some of them are really specific.
Recurring giving is more commonin faith than it is in
(28:19):
healthcare, where someone givesbecause an event happens in
their life and now they nevergive again.
Like, donor retention is sodifferent in healthcare than it
is in education when, like,you're an alumni and you never
give again or whatever.
So, like, looking at it byvertical is really important too
, just so you can make sureyou're benchmarking against the
most niche version of your data.
(28:40):
But I'll send you the links andyou can put them in there of
your data.
But I'll send you the links andyou can put them in there.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
Fantastic.
We'll definitely link that inthe show notes and on our social
media pages as well.
This will drop in July, so bythe time folks are hearing about
it, those niche lines will beout for sure.
Cool, that's great.
Awesome, carly.
The closing question that I'vebeen asking everybody on this
season is if you could give onepiece of advice to nonprofit
(29:05):
leaders, what would that be?
This has obviously been likekind of a crazy year for
nonprofits in general, butespecially for those leaders.
If you could give them onepiece of advice or encouragement
, what would that look like?
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Yeah, that's a good question.
I think sometimes we can getreally wrapped up in the numbers
Like how do we improve this,how do we improve that?
You know all of those things.
But like the encouragement Iwould give is like what you're
doing not many people get to do,which is work at an
organization that has an amazingmission that you obviously care
about.
If you're working there, Likedon't lose sight of that.
(29:41):
Yeah, maybe your recurringgiving number is down or your
revenue is down or whatever, butlike you're doing great work
and like the world needs you todo that great work, so don't
lose sight of that.
And you said nonprofit leaders,but tell your staff the same
thing.
Yeah, Like there's a balancebetween the pressure of let's do
better, to let's keep doingthis thing that we're doing that
(30:03):
is affecting our community orour state or our country or
whatever, Because withoutnonprofits there's no one else
out there solving problemsthat's what nonprofits are doing
is solving problems, so focuson that.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
So good Love that word, curly.
Thank you, appreciate youcoming in and sharing the
benchmark report with us today.
I think that's going to be agreat resource, especially for
our nonprofit one-on-one friendsthat are just starting out
Awesome.
Yeah, thanks for having me.
Yeah Again.
My guest has been Carly Berna,who's the fundraiser in
residence at Virtuous.
This has been another episodeof the Nonprofit Hub Radio
(30:35):
Podcast.
I'm your host, megan Spear, andwe'll see you next time.
Bye.
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