July 18, 2025 • 34 mins
Nonprofit marketing often feels like a juggling act—and according to veteran fundraiser Kiersten Hill, that’s because it is. In this episode, Hill, who’s raised over $20 million for nonprofits, unpacks the core challenge of communicating with multiple stakeholder groups at once—from donors and volunteers to clients, board members, and funders—all requiring unique messaging across different platforms. In this installment of our NonProfit 101 series, Kiersten shares practical strategies for prioritizing audiences, offers a powerful ethical storytelling framework, and reminds marketers that they don’t need to be everywhere online—just where it matters.
Resources mentioned:
Blog Article: How to define your target audience for better marketing results : https://firespring.com/creative-marketing/how-to-define-your-target-audience-for-better-marketing-results/
Downloadable: https://landing.firespring.com/target-audience-guide/page.html
Firespring Marketing Toolkit Downloadable: https://firespring.com/nonprofit-toolkit
Get free nonprofit professional development resources, connections to cause work peers, and more at https://nonprofithub.org
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
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(00:22):
Welcome back to the NonprofitHub podcast.
I'm your host, megan Spear, andalong with me today is Kirsten
Hill from Firespring.
Firespring is such a hugesupporter of Nonprofit Hub, so
I'm really excited to haveKirsten on today with so much
wisdom to share as part of thisNonprofit 101 series,
(00:42):
specifically around nonprofitmarketing and how we tell a
better story as our nonprofit.
So, kirsten, welcome in Well,thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
I am thrilled to be here.
It's great to be with you.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Yeah, absolutely so.
For those who may not have metyou at CauseCamp or seen you
present at conferences acrossthe country, give us a little
bit of background for yourselfand how maybe you got into
nonprofit marketing in the firstplace.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Sure.
So I actually have spent mostof my career in nonprofit
management and fundraising.
I came to Firespring about fourand a half years ago because I
was a client of Firespring whenI worked for nonprofits.
So over the course of my careerI have raised about $20 million
for nonprofits in Nebraska andnow I get to work with
(01:27):
nonprofits across the country.
I've been an executive director, I've been a development
director and I like to be ableto bring that really like hands
on, practical been there, donethat, been in the trenches kind
of approach to working withnonprofits specifically related
to marketing.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
I love it so good.
Well, that's the vein for today.
So we are, as you know, in thisNonprofit 101 series.
We are breaking down.
If someone is new to thenonprofit world, maybe this is
their first job just out ofcollege, or they've switched,
maybe, from a for-profit to anon-profit endeavor and find
themselves in that non-profitmarketing role.
(02:08):
That's who we're talking to, sowe're going to go back to
basics today and love it.
Um, if that's who we're talkingto, my first question for you
and I'd love to hear your wisdomon this is if you're walking in
the door day one, you've beenhired in a nonprofit marketing
role.
Okay, what are the firstquestions you should be asking
(02:33):
to make sure you're starting onthe right?
Speaker 2 (02:35):
foot.
Yeah, I would have a list ofthem.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
First of all.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
I think part of it is understanding the mission of
the organization, how youdeliver services and how you
measure impact, because if youdon't know those things then you
can't tell the right story toyour audience.
So I think, really getting afirm grasp on who the
(03:00):
organization is, how it operates, how it all works, and from
there the next step is who arethe audiences that I need to
communicate with.
I think you and I had kind ofemailed back and forth about
this, but one of the challengesof nonprofit is that you always
have multiple audiences.
(03:21):
There's no possible way thatyou can be a nonprofit marketer
and have a single audience.
It just doesn't happen, and sothat, I think, is challenging,
and I don't know that there ismuch in the undergrad or even in
initial careers in marketingthat prepares you for how to
(03:42):
communicate with multipleaudiences.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Yes, and I think that was my initial statement to you
was when I first got intononprofit marketing myself.
That was the hardest switch forme, because everything I had
learned in school was find yourtarget audience and market to
that.
But inevitably in a nonprofityou have donors, you have
volunteers, you have thecommunity who might use the
services that you offer or theclients who are benefiting from
(04:10):
that, and you need to be able tospeak to them as well.
And juggling that balance, Ithink, is one of the hardest
parts, absolutely.
It is such a hard balance.
So talk to me a little bitabout how you approach that with
an organization.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Sure, well, just in preparing to chat with you today
, I just grabbed a sticky noteand I said how many audiences
does the average nonprofit have?
And I wrote down eight, and thatwas then about a 30 second time
period.
So it wasn't like I was, youknow, sitting here for hours
contemplating like just off thetop of my head.
(04:45):
I think that there are alwaysmultiple audiences, and so I
think what you have to do isspend some time identifying who
those audiences are.
Then I think you have to figureout what problem it is that you
solve for each of thoseaudiences.
They're all coming to youspecifically needing something
(05:08):
different, and so identifyingyou know how you work with them,
how you solve those problems,is going to be really important.
And then you have to prioritize.
You know who gets the mostattention, and unfortunately
that means that sometimes youonly do a little bit of
marketing to some of thoseaudiences.
But you have got to find a wayto really prioritize which ones
(05:32):
are the most important, so thatyou know where you need to spend
your time and what you need tofocus on.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
I'm curious.
I came up with three just inthe course of our conversation
with donors, volunteers and thepeople who use your services.
What did I miss?
Speaker 2 (05:48):
So I think general public is one.
Okay, now you know there needsto be just kind of a
mission-based message here's whowe are, here's what we do.
You know the really simple,straightforward kind of a public
message.
Then, donors and clients, whichyou brought up, volunteers I
(06:08):
put the board as their owncategory because I think that
the way that you communicate andwhat their needs are and what
you communicate to the board isdifferent than what you
communicate to other audiencesAdvocates, so people who are
going out and talking on yourbehalf, who are promoting the
(06:29):
work that you do, who arehelping you to really advocate
on behalf of your cause that'sanother one.
I put funders as their owncategory because I think donors
I think of individual donors,maybe group donations, those
kinds of things, but I thinkdonors, I think of individual
donors, maybe group donations,those kinds of things but I
think family foundations,private foundations, grant
(06:52):
funding, government sourcesthose are all different.
The message that you need tohave for both of those audiences
sometimes will overlap, but notalways, and so you want to be
aware that they've got differentneeds.
Yes, and then the last one thatI have is partners.
I think that nonprofits arealways partnering, the good ones
(07:12):
, the ones who are doing reallywell and who are, you know,
building systems change andthose kinds of things have to
identify partnerships in theircommunities, and the way that we
approach partners with ourmessage is different as well.
So those are the eight that Icame up with just off the top of
my head.
Okay, yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
I like it and I like the distinction between funders
and donors specifically becauseeven really, if we wanted to get
into it, there's differentmessaging to your major donors
versus your sustainers, versus Igave you a gift one time, 10
years ago, right, absolutely.
We could break those down evenfurther.
So, yeah, the amount ofaudience is almost infinite at
(07:53):
this point.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
It really is, and I think that, again, is so
different than any other kind ofmarketing that is out there,
and they all have reallydistinct needs and distinct
problems that we help them tosolve.
And so, if you just approach it, you know, there's an old adage
in marketing I'm sure you'veheard of it, but it says if
you're marketing to everyone,then your message is reaching no
(08:17):
one.
Yes, and so we have to be ableto figure out how to present
these messages in a way thatreally meets those needs of each
audience, so that we're makingthe most of those connections
that we have with them.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Yeah.
So one of the things I thinkcan be a struggle when we're
talking about this andunderstanding the different
messages and it's I will putmyself in this boat.
It is definitely a mistake Imade early on in my career Well,
I will own that Is this ideathat, because the need is so
great, all of my messaging hasto be like emergency.
(08:55):
It's like this over the topemotional plea that sometimes,
to be honest, alienates one offaudience in favor of another one
.
So that balance too, but Speakto that, if you will, about how
we approach messaging.
Sure, because if everything isin a similar attitude, if
(09:18):
everything is urgent, nothing isurgent.
Right, absolutely, and I feellike we get stuck in that cycle
very easily early on in careers.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Yes, there's a reason why we tell the fable of
Chicken Little right?
Yes, because if the sky isalways falling, then there's no,
there's no sense of urgency,because the sky is always
falling.
And so I think that there is atime and a place to use that
approach.
But that is not, and shouldnever be, your consistent
(09:48):
approach.
When we watch television and wesee those Sarah McLachlan
commercials, you know the armsof an angel commercials.
They're the only ones I knowthat that works for you know it.
I don't know anyone else whotakes that consistent approach
and finds it successful.
And for so long we've beenwatching these commercials
(10:12):
forever Well, over a decade.
Yeah, absolutely.
I think now it's like theircalling card, right, so they're
all in on it.
But I think that we have to.
You know, we've got to find away to also approach things from
a positive angle.
(10:37):
Goal and my experience in whatI've done with fundraising and
what I have helped our clientsto do at Firespring is that I
think the positive approach,where we show the possibility,
we talk about optimism, we talkabout hope, we talk about
empowering people and changingpeople's lives and building for
the future, I think thosemessages resonate so much better
(10:58):
than the desperation messagesand I think that if we can get
in a habit where we're reallyfocusing on the positive things,
then when we do have that skyis falling message, people will
wake up and they hear thatmessage differently, because
it's different than maybe theconsistent message that we give
(11:20):
them.
And I think that it helps.
That positive messaging helpspeople to relate, it gets people
excited and you know when I'mhelping clients to write stories
or I'm telling stories and Isee this a lot, particularly in
things like homelessness,substance abuse, domestic
(11:41):
violence, those kinds of areas.
I try not to focus on thebefore, because there's often
lots of tragic stories andthere's trauma and there's lots
of emotion and things like thatthere.
But I don't want to dwell there.
I want to look at the point ofchange, that really point where
the conflict becomes a changeand we go into a resolution and
(12:05):
we talk about hope for thefuture and the way that people's
lives are now.
I think that those messages aremuch more motivational because
we can provide all differentkinds of people with those
experiences right, thosemotivational, optimistic
experiences, and I think theyjust resonate so much better
than spending too much time downin the mud.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
Yeah, I agree.
Just if I were starting out, Ithink one of the things that I'm
gonna recommend is is requiredreading.
If you're starting out, I haveyou read the ethical
storytelling report?
I have.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Carly Euler put out yep, I have.
I haven't come through it likefront to back, but I have.
I've like skimmed through itand read parts of it and they
are so spot on.
I mean, it's really good stuff.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Speaks exactly to what you just said, because we,
I do think something that weshould all embrace, and if we
can do it from the jump, at thebeginning of our careers, even
better.
Is that, though, when we tellthose stories and we don't focus
on the change point and the thehope moving forward, it becomes
very exploiting of theexperiences of those we serve
(13:18):
Absolutely, and that man, if wecould have a whole generation of
new nonprofit leaders coming inthis round who didn't start
from that exploitation point,man, what a difference we could
make in nonprofit storytelling.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
And just do it in a way that feels so much better,
and not just feels better for usas marketers, but that feels
better for the audiencereceiving those messages.
So my trick this is a trickthat I picked up, actually well
into my career I was already,you know, had been an executive
director a couple of timesbefore I picked up this trick
(13:54):
and that is that when I getready to tell a story, I like to
imagine that the people I'mtelling the story about are
sitting in the room where I'msharing that story.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Oh, that's so good.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
And yes, if there's anything about the way that I'm
going to tell that story, thatwould change.
If I'm telling the story infront of them versus what
they're not in the room, thenI'm not telling the story.
The right way to start with.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Yes, oh, I love that, yeah, so that's a really great
framework to think about it.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
That has helped me and still helps me.
I was the executive directorfor the Big Brothers Big Sisters
affiliate in Lincoln and youknow, when we talk about littles
and their families and familyexperiences and kind of what
brings them into the program, wewant to do that in a way that
talks about families empoweringkids, right?
(14:48):
Yes, families helping kids tosucceed and to thrive.
And if we focus too much on thesituation that brings them in
the door, then we're doing ahuge disservice to their journey
and to the reallytransformational power of
mentorship.
And so I learned a long timeago that if I think about
(15:10):
telling the story in a way thatthey would be proud of hearing
their own story, that's the wayI want to tell those stories
every time I tell them.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
That's such a good call.
I love that framing for it.
And that's true even in how wewrite for social media.
It's true in how we write foremail.
It doesn't have to just be inthat verbal presentation because
, especially just starting outin your career, you're not
likely to be in those roomsquite yet.
Right, exactly, yeah, yeah, butin how you do content yeah,
(15:41):
yeah.
Running it through thatframework I think is great.
I want to get back to a secondand I man, if I was going to add
something else to the requiredreading list, maybe that's what
I will do for this series.
I'm just going to make a wholeresource post for all of these
things I love it.
One of it would be Firespringhas a really great post out on
defining your audience.
Yes, because if we have theseeight, that's an overwhelming
(16:03):
thing to think about.
It is Walk me through maybefrom that post, kind of the
framework that you guys haveoutlined for how we actually go
about defining, how we deal witheach of these audiences.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Well, and I think part of it is taking a look at
you know what does the processlook like for defining the
audience.
You know yes.
And then trying to figure outwhat are the basic
characteristics that each ofthose audiences have.
You know what?
And again I come back to thiswhat is the problem that we're
(16:37):
solving for each of thoseaudiences?
And so, and if we're going totalk about required reading, I
would be remiss, if I didn'ttalk about this.
Building a story brand by DonaldMiller is my favorite when it
comes to identifying problemsand helping to tailor your
message to your audience.
I think that the steps that wekind of walk through is you know
(17:00):
who are the audiences, what arethe characteristics of those
audiences, and then looking intohow can we gather as much
information as we possibly canabout similar folks in that
audience.
So what, where are they gettingtheir media?
Where are they learning aboutcauses?
(17:21):
Where are they?
How are they donating?
Are they digital donors?
Are they responding to directmail donors?
Are they responding to directmail?
You know, helping to kind offigure out, you know what are
some really similarities andcharacteristics that you can
share among those audiences willhelp you.
The other thing that we remindpeople of in that post and that
(17:43):
I think we forget about a lot iswe can sometimes, I think, make
pretty good assumptions, butthe best way to either prove or
disprove an assumption is justto ask people, and I think that
we assume a lot of things aboutdonors, we assume a lot of
things about volunteers, and ifyou really want to know,
(18:03):
specific to your organization,what your donors and your
volunteers and your clients arethinking.
The best thing you can do is tosurvey them and to ask them,
and I think that will help youget a lot of that demographic
information and you knowchannels of media and those
kinds of things better thananything else that you can put
(18:25):
out.
There is just to really ask isjust to really ask Pledge.
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(19:01):
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One of the things that I foundto be true is that in a lot of
(19:26):
organizations, so much of thatinformation is siloed.
Yeah, because the informationabout our volunteers lives over
here, and the information aboutour donors lives over here, and
our clients live over here, andthere's just all.
Everybody owns their littlepiece.
Yes, so even just being themarketer who goes and makes all
of the data come together andgives you a whole big picture is
a fantastic piece, but I thinkthe piece that we miss sometimes
(19:48):
is that there are overlaps.
Yes, I may be a donor and avolunteer.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
I may be a volunteer who also works for a foundation
that supports you, right, and sothat's how I learned about it,
and so I think, too, the overlapis another really specific,
unique piece.
Yeah, because while we havesiloed the data, humans don't
live in silos.
(20:14):
We are multiple things.
Yes, and it's to your point.
I think it's interestingsometimes to even ask somebody
who's very connected to yourorganization.
They don't, they're not puttingthose little tags on themselves
, no, not at all.
Yeah, they're not they're notsaying I'm a volunteer and a
donor to this organization.
They're just saying I'mconnected.
I support this.
(20:35):
Yes, exactly, yeah, I support,yeah, yeah.
So I think sometimes we get it.
So that's what I would say if Iwas just starting.
A marketing role is be theperson who brings the data
together.
Go talk to all of the peopleand ask those questions yes,
absolutely.
And then find those people whodo crossover.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
You know, I think that was really very clear to me
when I worked at the zoo.
So I was the director ofdevelopment for the Lincoln
Children's Zoo and I saw thatall the time, you know they were
donors.
They were also sometimesdriving the train.
They would come help put on ourevents.
They might go out in the hiveand, you know, hold slithery
(21:19):
creatures for a while, like thepeople.
Yeah, no, thank you.
But the people who support zoosand who support, you know,
animals and animal conservation,they are crossing over multiple
areas.
And so it was helpful becauseyou know I could really find our
sweet spot for supporters if Ifound where all of those things
(21:41):
crossed over, what were thecommonalities that they had.
And it made my job as amarketer and a fundraiser a lot
easier when I could find, youknow, those pockets of people
where you know they were reallysuper engaged.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Yeah, I like that call it a lot especially for
someone who's just starting out,because what I don't want is
for them to listen to thispodcast and be like, oh my gosh,
this job is so much harder thanI thought it is.
I'm really overwhelmed rightnow.
Yeah, no, it's a good, goodplace to start, though, in that
data gathering and understandingthe audiences, I feel like
that's a really good step in theladder.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Yes, definitely, and I, yeah.
The last thing I want is peopleto get discouraged.
I will say honestly, thatmultiple audience thing is
probably what kept me innonprofit as long as I was.
I would honestly get bored, Ithink.
If I just had like I wasselling a widget to one you know
particular user, I think I'dget really bored because there's
(22:41):
only so many ways you can talkabout a widget.
But you know, being able toidentify who each of those
pockets of folks are and thentailor that message specifically
to them and trying differentthings and testing different
ways to reach them and differentmessages, that's part, in my
opinion, that was always part ofthe fun of working in nonprofit
(23:03):
and working in nonprofitmarketing and fundraising is
that I always had something newor different or a different way
that I could say things or adifferent audience to connect
with, and I think that's part ofwhat makes nonprofit work
really enjoyable All right, soI'm going to piggyback off of
that and ask this question thatI get regularly, okay, anytime.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
I speak about nonprofit marketing, this is one
that everyone comes in on.
So even with those audiences,audiences there are so many
different ways in this point intime to communicate with them,
right?
So you still got direct mailand email and your website.
You've got phone and text andsocial, and there is a new
social platform that jumps out.
You know, every six monthswe're launching something new,
(23:45):
which can be overwhelming ifyou're trying to do all the
things, things.
Let's final word Do we need tobe on all the social platforms
as they emerge?
No, do we need to overwhelmourselves with all of those
things and jump on the newesttrain all the time?
Speaker 2 (24:01):
I agree, I give a social media boot camp, which is
like a social media 101 andsocial media 102 sessions, which
is like a social media 101 andsocial media 102 sessions, and
one of the things that I say inboth of those sessions is just
because a platform exists doesnot mean you have to be there.
Yes, now I am a fan of goingout and claiming your handle or
(24:25):
your username, 100% agree sothat that way you can build
consistency in username acrossplatforms.
So, for instance, if you're noton blue sky or threads, I would
say, go grab those handles tomake sure that they match, or as
close as you can possibly getthem to your existing handles on
other channels, but then youcan hold tight.
(24:47):
Just because you have an accountdoes not mean you have to use
it.
If your target audience is, youknow, gen Z and millennials and
folks who are super users ofTikTok, then maybe you need to
think about being on TikTok.
But if that is not your targetaudience, about being on TikTok.
(25:12):
But if that is not your targetaudience, if that's not where
you're going to find success andfind your audience, then it
really is nothing but adistraction.
At that point, just because theplatform is there doesn't mean
you need to be there, you needto use it.
So I think being reallydiligent and making sure that
you're using platforms thatmatch with your audiences and
also with your capabilities as anonprofit you know, if you're a
(25:35):
two or three person shop, youabsolutely can't be on every
platform because you've got, youknow, a list of 100 other
things you have to do inaddition to social media, and so
I think it's finding you knowagain, prioritizing finding the
highest and best use of yourtime, where you can reach the
most people with the bestmessage.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
And to bring it full circle as we start to wrap up
here, you can best know where tobe when you know who those
audiences are.
Yes, absolutely.
So to your point.
Yes, maybe your millennialaudience is on TikTok right now,
or they're on Instagram.
You will know where to go whenyou know who your audience is
(26:16):
and let that audience be thedriver.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
Absolutely, let that be your guide.
And again, it's aboutprioritizing when you know, in
this hierarchy of eightpotential audiences, who are my
most important of eightpotential audiences, who are my
most important, and I would saythat most often it's going to be
donors, volunteers and kind ofyour mission message.
(26:40):
So you know and prioritizingwho is most important in that
area, I think, is where you'llfind the most success and also
save your sanity.
Yes, which is important.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
Yes, which is important.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Yes, it is.
It is very important, a veryimportant piece of the puzzle
here.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
Yes, definitely.
Okay, so we've kind of I knowI'm going to put the blog post
on the required reading.
We will link that one in theshow notes.
But the other thing I think ifsomeone is really starting out
brand new, that would be afantastic resource is
Firespring's toolkit.
Yes, talk to us a little bitabout the resources that you
guys have put together for this,because I think it's fantastic.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
I love this tool so much.
It is one of my absolutefavorites.
So Firespring has a marketingtoolkit and it is really
designed for people who areeither brand new to a position
or brand new to nonprofitmarketing and it talks you
through first, like how tocreate a marketing plan and this
(27:39):
is not a super detailed likethis is really just the quick
top level nuts and bolts of howto put something together.
So you've got a place to start.
Then we have a brandingchecklist to make sure that your
brand is ready to go and up todate.
We've got a storytelling piecein there, so it kind of helps
(28:00):
you to build stories.
We have some social mediatidbits so that we talk about
how to create a social mediaplan, how to build content
pillars, how to make a schedulefor when to post and where to
post and all those things.
We have a piece on your websiteto make sure that that's up and
ready to go and finally, apiece on optimizing and writing
(28:21):
for search engine optimizationon your website.
So all of that is included inthis free downloadable resource.
I think, even if you have beena marketer for years, there's,
there are tidbits in here thatyou can grasp, maybe things you
haven't thought about.
There's some templates, there'ssome checklists and it's just a
really cool tool.
I'm really proud of how ourteam put it together.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Yeah, I mean it's.
It is a fantastic resource.
Specifically, I would say formyself, the one that I really
liked a lot was the writing forSEO.
Specifically, I would say formyself, the one that I really
liked a lot was the writing forSEO, because my background I'm
old school, right, my backgroundin writing press releases it
(29:04):
very much.
The way that you write for apress release for a journalism
article, all of those thingsthat are kind of in my
background is not how we writenow right To make it work.
So there were some reallyinteresting pieces, I think, for
me even in there, because, yeah, my old school training brain
around those press releasewritings is very different, very
different, and making sure thatyou have that in the back of
(29:25):
your mind and just that you'rethinking about it.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Even something as simple as making sure that
there's a frequently askedquestions page on your website,
because that automaticallyoptimizes for how people search,
right?
So you know, there's all kindsof tidbits like that in that SEO
writing section and it reallyis, I think, incredibly helpful
for people at all differentstages and parts in their job
(29:50):
and career.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
Yeah, we will definitely be linking that in
the blog post in our show notesfor this one, so definitely go
check it out.
The one question I've been kindof asking everybody this whole
season as we wrap up today is ifyou could give one piece of
advice to that new nonprofitmarketer.
We're going to focusspecifically on that one for
this episode.
If you could give them onepiece of advice as they start
(30:14):
their role in this space, whatwould you tell them?
Speaker 2 (30:18):
I would tell them that the key to success as a
nonprofit marketer is planning,because your job is so much
harder if you're constantlyhaving to come up with things on
the fly, if you're shootingfrom the hip, so to speak it's
all so much harder.
And so if you can make a planand that doesn't mean that
(30:44):
you're married to that and youhave to live and die by it, but
it at least gives you somewhereto go so if you make a plan,
then all you have to do is workthe plan.
Otherwise, you're constantlybuilding the plane as you're
flying, and no one can do theirbest work when you are working
in that manner.
(31:04):
And so if I had to do anythingas a brand new marketer, I would
have spent more time on theplanning and less time on, you
know, the creative and thosekinds of things, because I think
the plan is what really setsyou up for success.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
That's such a great call out Because, again, the
creative is more of the fun side.
Oh yeah, right, Everybody wantsto do the creative writing and
the graphic design and all ofthe pieces.
But again, if we go back to you, it's important to save your
sanity.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
Yeah, that is a fantastic call out.
Yeah, it just.
It makes it so much easier, itkeeps you on track, it keeps you
accountable, and I think,instead of sitting down every
morning and going what in theworld am I going to do today,
you at least have a general ideaof what you're doing and what
comes next.
And without that, what I wouldfind when I didn't do a good job
(31:58):
of planning is that I would behalfway into a project and be
like oh, I wish I would havedone it this way, but I don't
have time because I didn't planit out in advance.
So ways that I could have beenmore effective with my messaging
or with the.
You know the form of deliverythat I was, I was using for the
messaging, and there's justnothing that feels worse than
(32:20):
wishing you had done itdifferently, but knowing that
you just didn't give yourselfenough time or enough
preparation.
And so the plan helps you to toavoid that as best you can.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
I love that.
All right, Kirsten, if somebodywanted to connect with you and
learn more, or they wanted tolearn more about Firespring, how
do we find you so?
Speaker 2 (32:38):
the easiest way to find me is LinkedIn.
So if you go to LinkedIn andlook up Kirsten Hill, you'll
find me there.
I post a few times a week andyou can always drop into direct
messages If you have questions.
Happy to answer questions thereas well.
Otherwise, you can go toFirespringcom If you want to get
really specific.
Firespringcom slash nonprofitswill take you specifically
(33:00):
directly to our nonprofitresources.
We have a blog.
Firespringcom slash webinarswill take you to our webinar
schedule.
We give almost weekly webinarson our platform and we also, you
know, partner with a nonprofithub to promote those and talk
about those as well.
So you know those are the bestways to reach Firespring and me
(33:23):
and to find out all of the greatresources that we have for
nonprofit organizations.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
Excellent, and we will see you on stage at
CauseCamp.
Yes, in just a couple months.
Stage at CauseCamp yes.
In just a couple months.
So excited Talking aboutmarketing planning so this is so
perfect.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
I know I was like, well, this is great, this is
exactly where I'm headed anyway.
So, yeah, I'm looking forwardto I'm actually starting to pull
the content for thatpresentation.
It's going to be brand newcontent for us and looking
forward to all the great thingsthat we can share with folks and
just being with all theCauseCamp people.
It's such a great environmentand a great feeling and I'm
(33:58):
looking forward to it.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
Excellent.
Well, kirsten, thank you somuch.
Thank you Glad to have you hereand always appreciate the
wisdom that you bring, so thankyou so much for being here.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
Yeah, thank you so much.
I really appreciate the chanceto come in and chat and share
some of our thoughts andapproaches.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
Thanks so much.
This has been another episodeof the Nonprofit Hub podcast.
I'm your host, Megan Spear, andwe'll see you next time.
Pledgeit is designed for nonprofit fundraising
professionals who needcomprehensive event management
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Our intuitive platform handlesgalas, golf tournaments,
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(00:22):
Welcome back to the NonprofitHub podcast.
I'm your host, megan Spear, andalong with me today is Kirsten
Hill from Firespring.
Firespring is such a hugesupporter of Nonprofit Hub, so
I'm really excited to haveKirsten on today with so much
wisdom to share as part of thisNonprofit 101 series,
(00:42):
specifically around nonprofitmarketing and how we tell a
better story as our nonprofit.
So, kirsten, welcome in Well,thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
I am thrilled to be here.
It's great to be with you.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Yeah, absolutely so.
For those who may not have metyou at CauseCamp or seen you
present at conferences acrossthe country, give us a little
bit of background for yourselfand how maybe you got into
nonprofit marketing in the firstplace.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Sure.
So I actually have spent mostof my career in nonprofit
management and fundraising.
I came to Firespring about fourand a half years ago because I
was a client of Firespring whenI worked for nonprofits.
So over the course of my careerI have raised about $20 million
for nonprofits in Nebraska andnow I get to work with
(01:27):
nonprofits across the country.
I've been an executive director, I've been a development
director and I like to be ableto bring that really like hands
on, practical been there, donethat, been in the trenches kind
of approach to working withnonprofits specifically related
to marketing.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
I love it so good.
Well, that's the vein for today.
So we are, as you know, in thisNonprofit 101 series.
We are breaking down.
If someone is new to thenonprofit world, maybe this is
their first job just out ofcollege, or they've switched,
maybe, from a for-profit to anon-profit endeavor and find
themselves in that non-profitmarketing role.
(02:08):
That's who we're talking to, sowe're going to go back to
basics today and love it.
Um, if that's who we're talkingto, my first question for you
and I'd love to hear your wisdomon this is if you're walking in
the door day one, you've beenhired in a nonprofit marketing
role.
Okay, what are the firstquestions you should be asking
(02:33):
to make sure you're starting onthe right?
Speaker 2 (02:35):
foot.
Yeah, I would have a list ofthem.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
First of all.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
I think part of it is understanding the mission of
the organization, how youdeliver services and how you
measure impact, because if youdon't know those things then you
can't tell the right story toyour audience.
So I think, really getting afirm grasp on who the
(03:00):
organization is, how it operates, how it all works, and from
there the next step is who arethe audiences that I need to
communicate with.
I think you and I had kind ofemailed back and forth about
this, but one of the challengesof nonprofit is that you always
have multiple audiences.
(03:21):
There's no possible way thatyou can be a nonprofit marketer
and have a single audience.
It just doesn't happen, and sothat, I think, is challenging,
and I don't know that there ismuch in the undergrad or even in
initial careers in marketingthat prepares you for how to
(03:42):
communicate with multipleaudiences.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Yes, and I think that was my initial statement to you
was when I first got intononprofit marketing myself.
That was the hardest switch forme, because everything I had
learned in school was find yourtarget audience and market to
that.
But inevitably in a nonprofityou have donors, you have
volunteers, you have thecommunity who might use the
services that you offer or theclients who are benefiting from
(04:10):
that, and you need to be able tospeak to them as well.
And juggling that balance, Ithink, is one of the hardest
parts, absolutely.
It is such a hard balance.
So talk to me a little bitabout how you approach that with
an organization.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Sure, well, just in preparing to chat with you today
, I just grabbed a sticky noteand I said how many audiences
does the average nonprofit have?
And I wrote down eight, and thatwas then about a 30 second time
period.
So it wasn't like I was, youknow, sitting here for hours
contemplating like just off thetop of my head.
(04:45):
I think that there are alwaysmultiple audiences, and so I
think what you have to do isspend some time identifying who
those audiences are.
Then I think you have to figureout what problem it is that you
solve for each of thoseaudiences.
They're all coming to youspecifically needing something
(05:08):
different, and so identifyingyou know how you work with them,
how you solve those problems,is going to be really important.
And then you have to prioritize.
You know who gets the mostattention, and unfortunately
that means that sometimes youonly do a little bit of
marketing to some of thoseaudiences.
But you have got to find a wayto really prioritize which ones
(05:32):
are the most important, so thatyou know where you need to spend
your time and what you need tofocus on.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
I'm curious.
I came up with three just inthe course of our conversation
with donors, volunteers and thepeople who use your services.
What did I miss?
Speaker 2 (05:48):
So I think general public is one.
Okay, now you know there needsto be just kind of a
mission-based message here's whowe are, here's what we do.
You know the really simple,straightforward kind of a public
message.
Then, donors and clients, whichyou brought up, volunteers I
(06:08):
put the board as their owncategory because I think that
the way that you communicate andwhat their needs are and what
you communicate to the board isdifferent than what you
communicate to other audiencesAdvocates, so people who are
going out and talking on yourbehalf, who are promoting the
(06:29):
work that you do, who arehelping you to really advocate
on behalf of your cause that'sanother one.
I put funders as their owncategory because I think donors
I think of individual donors,maybe group donations, those
kinds of things, but I thinkdonors, I think of individual
donors, maybe group donations,those kinds of things but I
think family foundations,private foundations, grant
(06:52):
funding, government sourcesthose are all different.
The message that you need tohave for both of those audiences
sometimes will overlap, but notalways, and so you want to be
aware that they've got differentneeds.
Yes, and then the last one thatI have is partners.
I think that nonprofits arealways partnering, the good ones
(07:12):
, the ones who are doing reallywell and who are, you know,
building systems change andthose kinds of things have to
identify partnerships in theircommunities, and the way that we
approach partners with ourmessage is different as well.
So those are the eight that Icame up with just off the top of
my head.
Okay, yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
I like it and I like the distinction between funders
and donors specifically becauseeven really, if we wanted to get
into it, there's differentmessaging to your major donors
versus your sustainers, versus Igave you a gift one time, 10
years ago, right, absolutely.
We could break those down evenfurther.
So, yeah, the amount ofaudience is almost infinite at
(07:53):
this point.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
It really is, and I think that, again, is so
different than any other kind ofmarketing that is out there,
and they all have reallydistinct needs and distinct
problems that we help them tosolve.
And so, if you just approach it, you know, there's an old adage
in marketing I'm sure you'veheard of it, but it says if
you're marketing to everyone,then your message is reaching no
(08:17):
one.
Yes, and so we have to be ableto figure out how to present
these messages in a way thatreally meets those needs of each
audience, so that we're makingthe most of those connections
that we have with them.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Yeah.
So one of the things I thinkcan be a struggle when we're
talking about this andunderstanding the different
messages and it's I will putmyself in this boat.
It is definitely a mistake Imade early on in my career Well,
I will own that Is this ideathat, because the need is so
great, all of my messaging hasto be like emergency.
(08:55):
It's like this over the topemotional plea that sometimes,
to be honest, alienates one offaudience in favor of another one
.
So that balance too, but Speakto that, if you will, about how
we approach messaging.
Sure, because if everything isin a similar attitude, if
(09:18):
everything is urgent, nothing isurgent.
Right, absolutely, and I feellike we get stuck in that cycle
very easily early on in careers.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Yes, there's a reason why we tell the fable of
Chicken Little right?
Yes, because if the sky isalways falling, then there's no,
there's no sense of urgency,because the sky is always
falling.
And so I think that there is atime and a place to use that
approach.
But that is not, and shouldnever be, your consistent
(09:48):
approach.
When we watch television and wesee those Sarah McLachlan
commercials, you know the armsof an angel commercials.
They're the only ones I knowthat that works for you know it.
I don't know anyone else whotakes that consistent approach
and finds it successful.
And for so long we've beenwatching these commercials
(10:12):
forever Well, over a decade.
Yeah, absolutely.
I think now it's like theircalling card, right, so they're
all in on it.
But I think that we have to.
You know, we've got to find away to also approach things from
a positive angle.
(10:37):
Goal and my experience in whatI've done with fundraising and
what I have helped our clientsto do at Firespring is that I
think the positive approach,where we show the possibility,
we talk about optimism, we talkabout hope, we talk about
empowering people and changingpeople's lives and building for
the future, I think thosemessages resonate so much better
(10:58):
than the desperation messagesand I think that if we can get
in a habit where we're reallyfocusing on the positive things,
then when we do have that skyis falling message, people will
wake up and they hear thatmessage differently, because
it's different than maybe theconsistent message that we give
(11:20):
them.
And I think that it helps.
That positive messaging helpspeople to relate, it gets people
excited and you know when I'mhelping clients to write stories
or I'm telling stories and Isee this a lot, particularly in
things like homelessness,substance abuse, domestic
(11:41):
violence, those kinds of areas.
I try not to focus on thebefore, because there's often
lots of tragic stories andthere's trauma and there's lots
of emotion and things like thatthere.
But I don't want to dwell there.
I want to look at the point ofchange, that really point where
the conflict becomes a changeand we go into a resolution and
(12:05):
we talk about hope for thefuture and the way that people's
lives are now.
I think that those messages aremuch more motivational because
we can provide all differentkinds of people with those
experiences right, thosemotivational, optimistic
experiences, and I think theyjust resonate so much better
than spending too much time downin the mud.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
Yeah, I agree.
Just if I were starting out, Ithink one of the things that I'm
gonna recommend is is requiredreading.
If you're starting out, I haveyou read the ethical
storytelling report?
I have.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Carly Euler put out yep, I have.
I haven't come through it likefront to back, but I have.
I've like skimmed through itand read parts of it and they
are so spot on.
I mean, it's really good stuff.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Speaks exactly to what you just said, because we,
I do think something that weshould all embrace, and if we
can do it from the jump, at thebeginning of our careers, even
better.
Is that, though, when we tellthose stories and we don't focus
on the change point and the thehope moving forward, it becomes
very exploiting of theexperiences of those we serve
(13:18):
Absolutely, and that man, if wecould have a whole generation of
new nonprofit leaders coming inthis round who didn't start
from that exploitation point,man, what a difference we could
make in nonprofit storytelling.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
And just do it in a way that feels so much better,
and not just feels better for usas marketers, but that feels
better for the audiencereceiving those messages.
So my trick this is a trickthat I picked up, actually well
into my career I was already,you know, had been an executive
director a couple of timesbefore I picked up this trick
(13:54):
and that is that when I getready to tell a story, I like to
imagine that the people I'mtelling the story about are
sitting in the room where I'msharing that story.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Oh, that's so good.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
And yes, if there's anything about the way that I'm
going to tell that story, thatwould change.
If I'm telling the story infront of them versus what
they're not in the room, thenI'm not telling the story.
The right way to start with.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Yes, oh, I love that, yeah, so that's a really great
framework to think about it.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
That has helped me and still helps me.
I was the executive directorfor the Big Brothers Big Sisters
affiliate in Lincoln and youknow, when we talk about littles
and their families and familyexperiences and kind of what
brings them into the program, wewant to do that in a way that
talks about families empoweringkids, right?
(14:48):
Yes, families helping kids tosucceed and to thrive.
And if we focus too much on thesituation that brings them in
the door, then we're doing ahuge disservice to their journey
and to the reallytransformational power of
mentorship.
And so I learned a long timeago that if I think about
(15:10):
telling the story in a way thatthey would be proud of hearing
their own story, that's the wayI want to tell those stories
every time I tell them.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
That's such a good call.
I love that framing for it.
And that's true even in how wewrite for social media.
It's true in how we write foremail.
It doesn't have to just be inthat verbal presentation because
, especially just starting outin your career, you're not
likely to be in those roomsquite yet.
Right, exactly, yeah, yeah, butin how you do content yeah,
(15:41):
yeah.
Running it through thatframework I think is great.
I want to get back to a secondand I man, if I was going to add
something else to the requiredreading list, maybe that's what
I will do for this series.
I'm just going to make a wholeresource post for all of these
things I love it.
One of it would be Firespringhas a really great post out on
defining your audience.
Yes, because if we have theseeight, that's an overwhelming
(16:03):
thing to think about.
It is Walk me through maybefrom that post, kind of the
framework that you guys haveoutlined for how we actually go
about defining, how we deal witheach of these audiences.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Well, and I think part of it is taking a look at
you know what does the processlook like for defining the
audience.
You know yes.
And then trying to figure outwhat are the basic
characteristics that each ofthose audiences have.
You know what?
And again I come back to thiswhat is the problem that we're
(16:37):
solving for each of thoseaudiences?
And so, and if we're going totalk about required reading, I
would be remiss, if I didn'ttalk about this.
Building a story brand by DonaldMiller is my favorite when it
comes to identifying problemsand helping to tailor your
message to your audience.
I think that the steps that wekind of walk through is you know
(17:00):
who are the audiences, what arethe characteristics of those
audiences, and then looking intohow can we gather as much
information as we possibly canabout similar folks in that
audience.
So what, where are they gettingtheir media?
Where are they learning aboutcauses?
(17:21):
Where are they?
How are they donating?
Are they digital donors?
Are they responding to directmail donors?
Are they responding to directmail?
You know, helping to kind offigure out, you know what are
some really similarities andcharacteristics that you can
share among those audiences willhelp you.
The other thing that we remindpeople of in that post and that
(17:43):
I think we forget about a lot iswe can sometimes, I think, make
pretty good assumptions, butthe best way to either prove or
disprove an assumption is justto ask people, and I think that
we assume a lot of things aboutdonors, we assume a lot of
things about volunteers, and ifyou really want to know,
(18:03):
specific to your organization,what your donors and your
volunteers and your clients arethinking.
The best thing you can do is tosurvey them and to ask them,
and I think that will help youget a lot of that demographic
information and you knowchannels of media and those
kinds of things better thananything else that you can put
(18:25):
out.
There is just to really ask isjust to really ask Pledge.
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(19:01):
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One of the things that I foundto be true is that in a lot of
(19:26):
organizations, so much of thatinformation is siloed.
Yeah, because the informationabout our volunteers lives over
here, and the information aboutour donors lives over here, and
our clients live over here, andthere's just all.
Everybody owns their littlepiece.
Yes, so even just being themarketer who goes and makes all
of the data come together andgives you a whole big picture is
a fantastic piece, but I thinkthe piece that we miss sometimes
(19:48):
is that there are overlaps.
Yes, I may be a donor and avolunteer.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
I may be a volunteer who also works for a foundation
that supports you, right, and sothat's how I learned about it,
and so I think, too, the overlapis another really specific,
unique piece.
Yeah, because while we havesiloed the data, humans don't
live in silos.
(20:14):
We are multiple things.
Yes, and it's to your point.
I think it's interestingsometimes to even ask somebody
who's very connected to yourorganization.
They don't, they're not puttingthose little tags on themselves
, no, not at all.
Yeah, they're not they're notsaying I'm a volunteer and a
donor to this organization.
They're just saying I'mconnected.
I support this.
(20:35):
Yes, exactly, yeah, I support,yeah, yeah.
So I think sometimes we get it.
So that's what I would say if Iwas just starting.
A marketing role is be theperson who brings the data
together.
Go talk to all of the peopleand ask those questions yes,
absolutely.
And then find those people whodo crossover.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
You know, I think that was really very clear to me
when I worked at the zoo.
So I was the director ofdevelopment for the Lincoln
Children's Zoo and I saw thatall the time, you know they were
donors.
They were also sometimesdriving the train.
They would come help put on ourevents.
They might go out in the hiveand, you know, hold slithery
(21:19):
creatures for a while, like thepeople.
Yeah, no, thank you.
But the people who support zoosand who support, you know,
animals and animal conservation,they are crossing over multiple
areas.
And so it was helpful becauseyou know I could really find our
sweet spot for supporters if Ifound where all of those things
(21:41):
crossed over, what were thecommonalities that they had.
And it made my job as amarketer and a fundraiser a lot
easier when I could find, youknow, those pockets of people
where you know they were reallysuper engaged.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Yeah, I like that call it a lot especially for
someone who's just starting out,because what I don't want is
for them to listen to thispodcast and be like, oh my gosh,
this job is so much harder thanI thought it is.
I'm really overwhelmed rightnow.
Yeah, no, it's a good, goodplace to start, though, in that
data gathering and understandingthe audiences, I feel like
that's a really good step in theladder.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Yes, definitely, and I, yeah.
The last thing I want is peopleto get discouraged.
I will say honestly, thatmultiple audience thing is
probably what kept me innonprofit as long as I was.
I would honestly get bored, Ithink.
If I just had like I wasselling a widget to one you know
particular user, I think I'dget really bored because there's
(22:41):
only so many ways you can talkabout a widget.
But you know, being able toidentify who each of those
pockets of folks are and thentailor that message specifically
to them and trying differentthings and testing different
ways to reach them and differentmessages, that's part, in my
opinion, that was always part ofthe fun of working in nonprofit
(23:03):
and working in nonprofitmarketing and fundraising is
that I always had something newor different or a different way
that I could say things or adifferent audience to connect
with, and I think that's part ofwhat makes nonprofit work
really enjoyable All right, soI'm going to piggyback off of
that and ask this question thatI get regularly, okay, anytime.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
I speak about nonprofit marketing, this is one
that everyone comes in on.
So even with those audiences,audiences there are so many
different ways in this point intime to communicate with them,
right?
So you still got direct mailand email and your website.
You've got phone and text andsocial, and there is a new
social platform that jumps out.
You know, every six monthswe're launching something new,
(23:45):
which can be overwhelming ifyou're trying to do all the
things, things.
Let's final word Do we need tobe on all the social platforms
as they emerge?
No, do we need to overwhelmourselves with all of those
things and jump on the newesttrain all the time?
Speaker 2 (24:01):
I agree, I give a social media boot camp, which is
like a social media 101 andsocial media 102 sessions, which
is like a social media 101 andsocial media 102 sessions, and
one of the things that I say inboth of those sessions is just
because a platform exists doesnot mean you have to be there.
Yes, now I am a fan of goingout and claiming your handle or
(24:25):
your username, 100% agree sothat that way you can build
consistency in username acrossplatforms.
So, for instance, if you're noton blue sky or threads, I would
say, go grab those handles tomake sure that they match, or as
close as you can possibly getthem to your existing handles on
other channels, but then youcan hold tight.
(24:47):
Just because you have an accountdoes not mean you have to use
it.
If your target audience is, youknow, gen Z and millennials and
folks who are super users ofTikTok, then maybe you need to
think about being on TikTok.
But if that is not your targetaudience, about being on TikTok.
(25:12):
But if that is not your targetaudience, if that's not where
you're going to find success andfind your audience, then it
really is nothing but adistraction.
At that point, just because theplatform is there doesn't mean
you need to be there, you needto use it.
So I think being reallydiligent and making sure that
you're using platforms thatmatch with your audiences and
also with your capabilities as anonprofit you know, if you're a
(25:35):
two or three person shop, youabsolutely can't be on every
platform because you've got, youknow, a list of 100 other
things you have to do inaddition to social media, and so
I think it's finding you knowagain, prioritizing finding the
highest and best use of yourtime, where you can reach the
most people with the bestmessage.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
And to bring it full circle as we start to wrap up
here, you can best know where tobe when you know who those
audiences are.
Yes, absolutely.
So to your point.
Yes, maybe your millennialaudience is on TikTok right now,
or they're on Instagram.
You will know where to go whenyou know who your audience is
(26:16):
and let that audience be thedriver.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
Absolutely, let that be your guide.
And again, it's aboutprioritizing when you know, in
this hierarchy of eightpotential audiences, who are my
most important of eightpotential audiences, who are my
most important, and I would saythat most often it's going to be
donors, volunteers and kind ofyour mission message.
(26:40):
So you know and prioritizingwho is most important in that
area, I think, is where you'llfind the most success and also
save your sanity.
Yes, which is important.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
Yes, which is important.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Yes, it is.
It is very important, a veryimportant piece of the puzzle
here.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
Yes, definitely.
Okay, so we've kind of I knowI'm going to put the blog post
on the required reading.
We will link that one in theshow notes.
But the other thing I think ifsomeone is really starting out
brand new, that would be afantastic resource is
Firespring's toolkit.
Yes, talk to us a little bitabout the resources that you
guys have put together for this,because I think it's fantastic.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
I love this tool so much.
It is one of my absolutefavorites.
So Firespring has a marketingtoolkit and it is really
designed for people who areeither brand new to a position
or brand new to nonprofitmarketing and it talks you
through first, like how tocreate a marketing plan and this
(27:39):
is not a super detailed likethis is really just the quick
top level nuts and bolts of howto put something together.
So you've got a place to start.
Then we have a brandingchecklist to make sure that your
brand is ready to go and up todate.
We've got a storytelling piecein there, so it kind of helps
(28:00):
you to build stories.
We have some social mediatidbits so that we talk about
how to create a social mediaplan, how to build content
pillars, how to make a schedulefor when to post and where to
post and all those things.
We have a piece on your websiteto make sure that that's up and
ready to go and finally, apiece on optimizing and writing
(28:21):
for search engine optimizationon your website.
So all of that is included inthis free downloadable resource.
I think, even if you have beena marketer for years, there's,
there are tidbits in here thatyou can grasp, maybe things you
haven't thought about.
There's some templates, there'ssome checklists and it's just a
really cool tool.
I'm really proud of how ourteam put it together.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Yeah, I mean it's.
It is a fantastic resource.
Specifically, I would say formyself, the one that I really
liked a lot was the writing forSEO.
Specifically, I would say formyself, the one that I really
liked a lot was the writing forSEO, because my background I'm
old school, right, my backgroundin writing press releases it
(29:04):
very much.
The way that you write for apress release for a journalism
article, all of those thingsthat are kind of in my
background is not how we writenow right To make it work.
So there were some reallyinteresting pieces, I think, for
me even in there, because, yeah, my old school training brain
around those press releasewritings is very different, very
different, and making sure thatyou have that in the back of
(29:25):
your mind and just that you'rethinking about it.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Even something as simple as making sure that
there's a frequently askedquestions page on your website,
because that automaticallyoptimizes for how people search,
right?
So you know, there's all kindsof tidbits like that in that SEO
writing section and it reallyis, I think, incredibly helpful
for people at all differentstages and parts in their job
(29:50):
and career.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
Yeah, we will definitely be linking that in
the blog post in our show notesfor this one, so definitely go
check it out.
The one question I've been kindof asking everybody this whole
season as we wrap up today is ifyou could give one piece of
advice to that new nonprofitmarketer.
We're going to focusspecifically on that one for
this episode.
If you could give them onepiece of advice as they start
(30:14):
their role in this space, whatwould you tell them?
Speaker 2 (30:18):
I would tell them that the key to success as a
nonprofit marketer is planning,because your job is so much
harder if you're constantlyhaving to come up with things on
the fly, if you're shootingfrom the hip, so to speak it's
all so much harder.
And so if you can make a planand that doesn't mean that
(30:44):
you're married to that and youhave to live and die by it, but
it at least gives you somewhereto go so if you make a plan,
then all you have to do is workthe plan.
Otherwise, you're constantlybuilding the plane as you're
flying, and no one can do theirbest work when you are working
in that manner.
(31:04):
And so if I had to do anythingas a brand new marketer, I would
have spent more time on theplanning and less time on, you
know, the creative and thosekinds of things, because I think
the plan is what really setsyou up for success.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
That's such a great call out Because, again, the
creative is more of the fun side.
Oh yeah, right, Everybody wantsto do the creative writing and
the graphic design and all ofthe pieces.
But again, if we go back to you, it's important to save your
sanity.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
Yeah, that is a fantastic call out.
Yeah, it just.
It makes it so much easier, itkeeps you on track, it keeps you
accountable, and I think,instead of sitting down every
morning and going what in theworld am I going to do today,
you at least have a general ideaof what you're doing and what
comes next.
And without that, what I wouldfind when I didn't do a good job
(31:58):
of planning is that I would behalfway into a project and be
like oh, I wish I would havedone it this way, but I don't
have time because I didn't planit out in advance.
So ways that I could have beenmore effective with my messaging
or with the.
You know the form of deliverythat I was, I was using for the
messaging, and there's justnothing that feels worse than
(32:20):
wishing you had done itdifferently, but knowing that
you just didn't give yourselfenough time or enough
preparation.
And so the plan helps you to toavoid that as best you can.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
I love that.
All right, Kirsten, if somebodywanted to connect with you and
learn more, or they wanted tolearn more about Firespring, how
do we find you so?
Speaker 2 (32:38):
the easiest way to find me is LinkedIn.
So if you go to LinkedIn andlook up Kirsten Hill, you'll
find me there.
I post a few times a week andyou can always drop into direct
messages If you have questions.
Happy to answer questions thereas well.
Otherwise, you can go toFirespringcom If you want to get
really specific.
Firespringcom slash nonprofitswill take you specifically
(33:00):
directly to our nonprofitresources.
We have a blog.
Firespringcom slash webinarswill take you to our webinar
schedule.
We give almost weekly webinarson our platform and we also, you
know, partner with a nonprofithub to promote those and talk
about those as well.
So you know those are the bestways to reach Firespring and me
(33:23):
and to find out all of the greatresources that we have for
nonprofit organizations.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
Excellent, and we will see you on stage at
CauseCamp.
Yes, in just a couple months.
Stage at CauseCamp yes.
In just a couple months.
So excited Talking aboutmarketing planning so this is so
perfect.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
I know I was like, well, this is great, this is
exactly where I'm headed anyway.
So, yeah, I'm looking forwardto I'm actually starting to pull
the content for thatpresentation.
It's going to be brand newcontent for us and looking
forward to all the great thingsthat we can share with folks and
just being with all theCauseCamp people.
It's such a great environmentand a great feeling and I'm
(33:58):
looking forward to it.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
Excellent.
Well, kirsten, thank you somuch.
Thank you Glad to have you hereand always appreciate the
wisdom that you bring, so thankyou so much for being here.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
Yeah, thank you so much.
I really appreciate the chanceto come in and chat and share
some of our thoughts andapproaches.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
Thanks so much.
This has been another episodeof the Nonprofit Hub podcast.
I'm your host, Megan Spear, andwe'll see you next time.
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