March 21, 2025 • 28 mins
What if the stories you tell could change everything about how your nonprofit engages with the world? Join us for an engaging conversation with Carly Euler, the Marketing Director at MemoryFox, as she shares her journey from coaching to championing ethical storytelling in the nonprofit sector. Carly reveals the evolution of storytelling from a tool often misused for fundraising to a more dignified medium that respects the individuals whose stories are told. Discover how MemoryFox is revolutionizing the way nonprofits collect and share stories, ensuring that the voices of those they serve are treated with authenticity and respect. We promise you'll gain insights into the shifting landscape of nonprofit communication and learn how to make these stories resonate ethically and effectively. Despite growing awareness, ongoing efforts are needed to ensure ethical storytelling becomes the norm, not the exception. Carly offers a glimpse into the 2024 Ethical Storytelling Report, which is an essential resource for any nonprofit professional committed to upholding integrity in their communications. This episode is packed with strategies to build trust with your audience, engage donors as partners, and inspire recurring giving through authentic stories that connect at a deeper level. Don't miss this chance to transform your approach to storytelling and make a lasting impact.
Click here to read The 2024 ethical storytelling report! https://www.memoryfox.io/ethical-storytelling/
Get free nonprofit professional development resources, connections to cause work peers, and more at https://nonprofithub.org
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Welcome back to the NonprofitHub podcast.
I'm your host, Megan Spear.
Joining me today is Carly Euler, who's the marketing director
for MemoryFox, Very excited todig in to this conversation
(00:46):
around ethical storytelling andthe ethical storytelling report
that just came out.
But before we dig into all ofthat, Carly, welcome to the show
.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Thank you so much for having me.
It's always a pleasure to get achance to talk about ethical
storytelling.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Yeah, fantastic, I know you a little bit from
LinkedIn, but tell the audiencea little bit about you and your
journey into the nonprofit spaceand kind of what led you to our
conversation today.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Sure, I'd love to.
So, like many of us, my journeythat got me into the nonprofit
space was a littleunconventional.
And I say that because I sortof started my career thinking
that I would work in higher edas a lacrosse coach and that was
something that I did for a fewyears.
Okay, very different.
Yeah, very different.
I technically still nonprofitwork, but not exactly like I was
(01:34):
doing after that.
Sure, yeah, I loved coaching.
I thought coaching was just awonderful way that you can, you
know, learn so many things aboutyourself, learn so many things
about being in a team andleadership and sports are just
great.
They've been a great part of mylife.
But I kind of realized prettyearly on into my coaching career
that I don't want to offendanybody listening, but wins
(01:54):
really don't matter most of thetime and they don't actually
impact really anything.
I kind of decided I wanted todo something that I thought was
going to really help people,because my favorite part of
coaching was being able to be apart of a team again and really
help the girls kind of learnthings about themselves and
learn things about their futurecareers.
(02:14):
So I decided to go work innonprofits.
I did that for about 10 years Iworked at several different
nonprofits.
I did a lot of different jobsProbably people listening to
this might laugh at that,because my job title didn't
change very much but I sure dida lot of different things.
So we've all been there, right,we've all been there.
But I ultimately decided youknow, I didn't have one mission
(02:37):
in particular that I felt reallyspoke to me as a person, but on
the flip side, I was veryinspired by a lot of different
missions.
I started thinking about what Ireally wanted to do with my
life and I thought well, I wantto do something where I can
impact hundreds of missionsinstead of just one.
That's how I ended up atMemoryFox.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
I love it and just give me, or give the audience,
just a one sentence summary.
What is MemoryFox and what doyou all do?
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Sure so.
So Memory Fox is a storytellingtool that was built
specifically for nonprofits andwhat we do is we help nonprofits
collect, organize and shareimpact stories, which is
something every nonprofit needs.
But really we kind of removesome of the biggest barriers and
let people do it by collectingdirectly from their community.
And then I know we're going totalk about a lot of ethical
(03:23):
stuff today.
Basically kind of our numberone sort of claim to fame is
that we pride ourselves oncollecting and sharing stories
ethically.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Okay.
So I love that and that'sdefinitely what we're going to
dig into, because you all justreleased the ethical
storytelling report for 2024.
Before we dig into that reportand all of the pieces that you
have to share, let's kind oflevel set for everybody what is
ethical storytelling and how isit different than just what's in
my normal annual report?
Speaker 2 (03:54):
That's a great question and, I think, a really
important one to address.
You're so right for asking that.
Let's just start.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Let's start for the baseline of what it is before we
dig into how it's impacting thesector.
Sure so.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
I think it might be a little easier to set the stage
by taking us back maybe five, 10years if we're thinking about
nonprofit storytelling and howit's evolved.
10 years ago, even five yearsago, it was very common to think
about storytelling as a toolfor fundraising exclusively and
to say I'm going to take a storyfrom someone who we have maybe
(04:28):
helped at our nonprofit, someonewho has participated in a
program, and I'm going to find away to make that story the most
emotional or the saddest orframe it in maybe the most
through a lens of despair andI'm going to now take that and
make it seem like, hey, ournon-profit really led them to
(04:49):
this really huge growth ontohappily ever after right.
People now kind of refer tothat type of storytelling as
poverty porn style storytelling.
Yeah, but maybe even you knowthat does sound a little
dramatic in some cases, but itreally is true that we don't
really have to focus on that asa way to tell our stories any
(05:10):
longer.
We actually have found thatethical storytelling and telling
stories through the lens thatdoes not exploit your
storyteller and does not makethem feel disrespected in any
way actually still will raisefunds, which is ultimately
always our goal.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
I love that.
So I thank you for the baseline, but I also just love that idea
because, you're right, it's soeasy to like.
All right, well, if I justembellish this a little bit and
make them sound even worse, butthen what does that do for their
dignity?
How do we want to preserve that?
And I love, I love the idea oftaking a stand against that.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
And I think so many people who work at nonprofits.
You know we don't get intononprofit work because we want
to make people feel that way.
We sure we want to help people.
That's right, that's at ourcore.
This is sort of I'm more liketo refer to it as kind of a
traditional nonprofitstorytelling and we're kind of
breaking that old tradition andsort of rewriting the way that
we're going to tell stories.
(06:07):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
So let's talk about the Ethical Storytelling Report.
Then what kind of was the genusbehind that?
Where did it come from?
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Yeah, so that's a really interesting story
actually in itself, and that isin 2023, when I joined the
MemoryFox team, we startedreally trying to get ourselves
out there.
We were doing some webinars, wewere doing podcasts, we were
presenting at conferences and wewere talking about video
storytelling, how important itis to share your story via video
and it really didn't matter whowas speaking, what the audience
(06:41):
was or even what the medium wasthat we were talking.
Somebody always asked duringthe Q&A something along the
lines of okay, but what do I doif the people I serve absolutely
must remain anonymous, or theyhave sensitive stories that we
just don't feel comfortableasking them to share?
Sure, and we just got thisquestion so many times and here
(07:03):
at Memory Fox, you know, we werelike, well, wait, we just know
about video storytelling, wehaven't really thought too much
about the actual logistics ofthe collecting stories or the
ethical complications of that,sure.
So we thought, okay, you knowwhat?
Here's what we're going to do.
We're going to host a panel andwe're going to find four
panelists that are dedicated tothis work and I'm going to
(07:28):
collect questions from theaudience and we're going to get
them answered.
And then, you know, ouraudience will learn and we'll
learn and we'll know everythingright.
We just thought we'll just do apanel, we'll figure it out.
But then I opened registrationand we had 400 people register,
which meant that we had over 150questions that were submitted.
(07:49):
And if anybody here has watcheda panel before, you probably
know that panels get to about 10questions at the most Sure.
So we quickly realized thatthere really wasn't an easy path
forward for us to actuallylearn all of the nuances of
ethical storytelling.
I don't know.
We kind of thought maybe wecould get a good grip on it in
60 minutes and we were wrong.
(08:10):
So we decided one day my boss,chris he's the founder of
MemoryFox he kind of said to megosh, these questions are so
good.
I wish there was a way that wecould get these all answered.
And you know, if you ask himhe's sort of the idea guy and
I'm kind of the one who likes toget things done so I was like
(08:34):
now wait a second.
I think we could find a way todo that.
So what I did was I reached outto just those four panelists
that I had on the panel, as wellas everybody that they knew
that was working in ethicalstorytelling, and I sent them
all the questions and I saidwould you mind just submitting
some responses?
I'm going to make a little bookand I'm going to send it out.
And I got flooded with answers.
(08:56):
People really enjoyed sharingtheir perspectives, sharing
their advice.
So then we thought let's make itmore of a really educational
report, right, so these arequestions and answers, but what
is really going to stand out isalso serving the community and
saying or serving the communityreally, so we can get a baseline
of how people are feeling aboutethical storytelling.
(09:17):
Do you currently feel like itis something your organization
does well?
Do you currently feel likeconsent is important to you or
to your organization as a whole?
These are all things that a lotof people who are thinking
about these topics you mightinherently know, kind of what
you think the answers to thosesurvey questions might be.
But I really haven't seenanyone else actually ask before.
(09:40):
So we thought let's put somenumbers to this stuff.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Yeah, that's so interesting.
Obviously, if there's 400people registering for this
panel, it is definitely a topicthat is peaking people's
interest.
Tell me some of the topquestions.
Were there themes that you sawemerge within those?
Yes, we have to assume thatthere's not 150 individual
questions that have no overlapwith each other, right?
Speaker 2 (10:04):
You're exactly right.
So what happened when I askedpeople to submit their own
questions is I then went throughand read each one of them and I
categorized them sort of by atheme.
And you're right, two years agowhen we first launched this
initiative, it ended up becomingabout eight topics, and that's
how the 2023 report ended upbeing written.
And then, even now that I knowso much more, when I was
(10:26):
creating the 2024 report, Iactually got all of the
questions down to three topics.
So this year's report isactually in three sections and
each section has foursubsections.
So the first section is juststrategy and implementation.
So actually how to collect, howto share, how to make a process
(10:46):
at your nonprofit.
So those are all practicalthings, actionable things.
The second section was aboutconsent, and that might sound on
its head like it's a smallsection, but literally we have
gotten so many questions aboutconsent.
Every day we continue to getquestions about all the nuances
(11:07):
that go along with consent, sothat's its own section in the
report.
And then I created this thirdsection that I just called
special considerations in storytypes.
So that includes stories thatinvolve youth or families.
So those have special nuancesto consider that involve youth
or families, so those havespecial nuances to consider.
(11:28):
Or even using AI, and what typeof ethics to consider when it
comes to sharing stories thathave been created either fully
or partially by AI.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Yeah, that's a whole separate component, because you
would I mean, certainly ifyou're talking about children,
if you're talking about anythingmedical, anything, that's maybe
an abuse situation.
There's so many nonprofits thatdeal with that super sensitive
data, even some with HIPAA,where we can't talk about it.
But then the AI is a wholedifferent component of that and
it's interesting because thereport has answers from 30
(11:58):
different people.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
So basically, you get perspectives of people who are
very pro using AI and they'resaying here's how I recommend
using it, here's what you can dofor profit today, and then
there's some answers in therethat are, like you know, I
actually don't recommend it, andthis is why.
So I really enjoy collectingthe responses from so many
people, because you can kind offind what might work best for
(12:22):
your organization, because, asyou just mentioned I mean, you
just mentioned like 10 differentmissions in one sentence, right
?
So every nonprofit hasdifferent considerations.
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So let's talk a little bit inthat first section, on the
(13:26):
strategy side, because I'm surethat there are folks listening,
going, you know.
Yeah, this is actuallysomething that we should
consider.
If somebody has not ever evendipped their toe into the idea
of ethical storytelling aroundtheir nonprofit, what is maybe
on the strategic side?
Where do we even start?
What's your first like asyou're dipping your toe in?
(13:48):
These are the first things toconsider.
Where does that start?
Speaker 2 (13:51):
I love that question.
There are quite a few ways youcould start, but let me, let me
think.
Maybe the two easiest ways thatyou can fully just get started
you could start tomorrow.
Number one would be to considerstrength-based messaging.
So take a look at your website,take a look at the way you
historically write stories.
Try to look through and see ifyou see any language that might
(14:18):
pop out to you as deficit-basedor pop out to you as potentially
exploiting your community.
It might not be obvious to you.
You might need to ask a fewother people, some trusted
colleagues, what do they thinkabout the way you've been
telling stories about andwording things about your
community?
But I think once you sort ofget a handle on a few language
changes, like we no longer wantto use this phrase.
We want to substitute with thisphrase go through your website,
(14:41):
go through your social mediaaccounts and actually make those
changes to feel so much betterthat you did that and you're
also going to let everyoneexternally from now on know that
when they come to your websiteor when they come to your social
media page.
This is something that youbelieve in and this is something
that you are adopting.
So I would say that's a kind ofmaybe not a simple one, but
(15:03):
sort of one that can really getyou going thinking in an ethical
storytelling lens.
And then I would say, when itcomes to actual ethical
storytelling, we know thatreally it sort of starts with
the story collection process.
So, rethinking how you arecollecting stories from your
community, what types of promptsare you asking your community?
(15:23):
Again, do those includestrength-based language?
Are you asking your communityto respond to you in a
strength-based way?
Very important to consider,especially since we a lot of us
are.
When we're story collectors,we're also maybe grant writers
or we are maybe looking overgrant applications and we see so
often that grant applicationscontinue to use deficit-based
(15:45):
language.
So it might not even besomething that you are taking in
on purpose, but you might justbe coming across it.
Definitely, thinking about theway you're collecting stories,
there's kind of a few quickchanges you can make that will
make your story collection moreethical.
Number one would be, obviously,to collect consent up front.
You want to make sure thatwe're not implying any consent.
(16:08):
We don't want people to.
We don't want to feel likepeople are being coerced or
feeling like they gave consentsort of informally.
We want to make sure that'sreally formal.
Actually, let's get people tosign something, let's get people
to click a checkbox, let's makesure they know what they're
agreeing to, and kind of abigger one.
That is sort of a new concept tome since learning all these
(16:30):
things in the report.
But before you've actuallysubmitted that story anywhere or
before you've shared that story, check back in with your
storyteller and say, hey, thisis how the final product came
out.
Are you still okay with this?
And I know that can be achallenge for some people
because you know we havedeadlines, right, and everything
feels really important andreally time sensitive.
(16:52):
But I would say that if we'rethinking about ethical
storytelling, we really need tobe good story stewards in order
to ultimately get better storieson the long run.
So really just being a goodstory steward is super important
, even if you need to push backa couple deadlines here and
there.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
Yeah, First of all, I've never even heard the phrase
a good story steward, but Ireally like it and I'm going to
continue to use that becausewhat a great image.
Let's double back for onesecond from you on something
(17:33):
that is maybe like adeficit-based phrase that we
don't want to use anymore, andwhat a strength-based
alternative would be.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Definitely, and you know what the ones I'm probably
going to share you probably haveheard be reframed several times
at this point.
They're sort of common ones.
But, for example, people are nolonger really using the term
homeless, where we talk aboutpopulations that are of people
being unhoused first.
So we want to make sure thatthe person with their dignity is
(18:00):
put before the actual thingthat has occurred to them.
So people who are unhousedversus homeless.
Another great example that wetend to see for domestic
violence situations, for example, would be victims.
We're not really referring topeople as victims.
We don't see that language asmuch anymore.
We see a lot of people refer topeople who have been in those
(18:23):
situations as survivors.
But I would say these.
So these are kind of maybe themost common examples that you
might see on TV or you might seeon the course, when you're
referring to your community andhow they would like to be
referred to.
There is no better way to referto your community than the way
(18:54):
they tell you they would like tobe referred to.
So asking them is this a waythat you would like us to talk
about your neighborhood or aboutyour street, or about the area
that you live in, or the city orthe state, whatever it might be
.
That is really the way you canbe definitely assured that you
(19:16):
are using the strength-basedterm.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Yeah that's so interesting.
Between the 23 report and the2024 report, were there
significant changes?
Are there things that we'restarting to see?
Oh, this is a trend in ethicalstorytelling that is emerging.
Anything, stand out to youthere in the newest version?
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Yes, I would say that probably the most significant
things that stood out to me wereactually the things that did
not change, and that's because Ithink about these topics all
day, every day.
So I, you know, tend to thinkthat others are too.
But when it came to the surveyresults, I did a survey this
(19:57):
year that really reflected thesame questions that I asked back
in 2023 as well, and I foundthat some of the questions they
really showed no improvement,which was shocking to me, for
example, when we're talkingabout consent.
So I already said consent youknow it's its own section this
year in the report because it'sso, so important, and I was very
(20:17):
pleased to see that in 2023, aswell as 2024, most people by
far the most people over 80%both years they said that they
also believe that consent isextremely important.
So that's great, right, that'sthe baseline, that's what we
want.
However, sort of the sadderpart of the report is that I
then asked the same people, thepeople who submitted the survey,
(20:41):
how do you feel yourorganization feels about consent
, and only 24% said that theyfelt their organization felt it
was extremely important.
So that's obviously a massivedifference.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Yeah, interesting.
So the individual people mightbe trying to drive change.
But organizationally that hasnot maybe caught on yet.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Yeah, Because you would think that if you're in
the role of collecting thestories or sharing the stories
you know that might be themarketers or the fundraisers or
the communications directors youwould think that would mean
they would be prioritizingsomething like that.
And I'm not saying that doesn'tmean that they are prioritizing
it, but at least the perceptionon their end is that they don't
(21:28):
find it to be important fortheir organization.
So it's just very interestingwhen you think of it that way.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
Yeah, that is a much larger gap than I would have
anticipated there to be.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Yeah, I agree.
But I will say one reallypositive thing that came out of
the report, out of the surveythis year, was I asked
respondents how do you feelethical storytelling will impact
fundraising?
Because, you know, sometimes wetalk to people and they mean
well, but they'll say you know,I just think the sadder stories
(21:58):
are going to raise more fundsand that's, you know, what my
leadership thinks, and that'swhat our board thinks, and
that's what I'm going tocontinue to do.
But I would like to share todaythat we actually found in the
report that 42% of ourrespondents said that they have
seen ethical storytelling be aneffective fundraising tool for
them and 37% said that theyhaven't personally had success
(22:22):
yet with ethical storytelling,but they believe that it is true
that they will raise more funds.
So together, that is the vastmajority of people saying hey, I
believe in ethical storytellingand it will raise more funds.
So together, that is the vastmajority of people saying hey, I
believe in ethical storytellingand it will raise more funds.
On the flip side, we only had17% say that they thought it
would not raise more funds orthat it would make no impact on
(22:42):
their fundraising, so itwouldn't make it less.
So I think that's reallytelling that the sector
definitely is beginning to shiftand say this is important to us
and therefore we believe it'simportant to our donors and it's
going to impact us positivelyto tell stories this way.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
Yeah, that is an interesting gap and I understand
it's kind of certainly the oldschool mentality, right, but I
think there's something to besaid for authenticity.
Old school mentality, right, butI think there's something to be
said for authenticity.
And so often I feel like, whenwe either over-exaggerate or
embellish to make somethingsound worse than it was, so that
(23:23):
our fix looks better than itwas right, I think that
audiences are smart enough tosee the inauthentic nature of
that, right.
Yeah, we have a very savvypopulation at this point, right,
because we're bombarded with somany messages, I think it's
easier to discern that feels toocontrived, that feels too made
(23:48):
up, or it couldn't possibly havebeen that bad right.
That feels too made up or itcouldn't possibly have been that
bad right.
Where it would seem to me and Ithink I would put myself in
that population something thatis a more authentic story to me
is going to drive more fundsbecause people aren't going to
ignore it and see through it,because they don't want to.
No one wants to feelmanipulated at the end of the
(24:10):
day, and I'm not going to giveto organization that makes me
feel manipulated or where I feellike my emotions are being
played on just to get more moneyout of me.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
Yes, because it's all about trust.
Right, correct, right.
I'm not going to trust that.
And we are finding I meananecdotally, but also in the
report you're finding that moreand more nonprofits that are
continuing to put people up onstage and make them cry and make
them tell their story.
Yeah, these aren't thingspeople are wanting to see
(24:37):
anymore.
Because we're saying, hey, Iwant to be as a donor, a part of
a long-term solution.
I don't really want to feellike I am saving this person
anymore.
That's kind of an old narrativethat a donor is kind of saving
lives.
I know that many nonprofits dosave lives and I think that you
(24:58):
know the work they're doing isso important.
But this, it's not as easy assaying this person saved this
person, right?
Sure, we are trying to findlong term solutions so things
don't impact people in the sameway that they used to.
That's really what mostnonprofits are in the market for
doing.
So you're exactly right whenwe're putting people up on stage
(25:19):
and we're making them cry orwe're filming them and
interviewing them in a way wherethey must tell the worst things
that have happened to them orrelive the biggest trauma
they've experienced, it's veryfew and far between that, those
people walk away from thoseexperiences feeling better and,
to your point, right, somebodywho has had some sort of
(25:40):
traumatic situation in theirlife.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
The last thing I want anyone to do is exploit that
for dollars.
There has to be.
That's why I'm very excitedabout this whole report, because
we have to do better as asector than continuing to
exploit the people that we servefor the sake of a few more
dollars.
Where I think the authenticityof yep, here's what we do,
here's how it impacts lives.
(26:04):
There's better ways to do that,then you're right.
Then making somebody get up andrelive this trauma over and
over again for the sake of ourfundraiser dinners?
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Definitely, and what we're simply saying is you can
tell stories from differentperspectives.
Yes, you can tell stories fromyou know, you're the program
manager and you experiencedthese things in real time
working with people.
You experienced the hope thatthey lived through, the hope
that you felt when you gave thatcall, that their grant was made
to them.
(26:33):
There are things that you cando that are really inspiring and
really elicit positive emotionsand again bring those donors
into being a long-term part ofthe solution.
You know everyone's talkingabout recurring giving.
That's a constant thing thatpeople are worried about and
wanting to increase, constantthing that people are worried
about and wanting to increase,and I truly believe that when
(26:53):
you are giving donors thepositive outcomes in a way where
they feel like they were a partof that impact, that's what's
going to make people want togive again, because they want to
help more people.
That's kind of just how itworks.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
I love it.
Carly, this has been afantastic conversation, Really
really interesting.
If somebody wanted to go findthe ethical storytelling report
or connect with you to learnmore, where would they go to do
that and how would they find you?
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Yeah, so you can find me on LinkedIn.
I'm also on TikTok.
I post a lot of videos onTikTok.
So if people are worried abouthow to take a selfie video or
how to talk to a camera, you cansee all my examples.
But in terms of finding theethical storytelling report,
that can be found at memoryfoxiobackslash ethical dash
storytelling.
So I will send you that link.
(27:41):
And, honestly, if anybody wantsto follow us on LinkedIn, on
Instagram, facebook I'm postingon there constantly from our
account as well.
I'd love to stay connected.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
That's awesome.
Well, carly, thank you so muchfor joining us.
I am sure that there will be aton of people going to check
this report out, because itreally is just a fascinating
look at what I think is a reallyimportant topic.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
I hope that it is.
I hope people find it helpful,and there is within the report a
way where you can submitfeedback as well.
So if you have questions theywant answered next year or they
want to see a topic highlighted,please let me know.
I am dying to figure out whatelse to include and how I can
better help people.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
I love it Awesome.
Well again, my guest today hasbeen Carly Euler, who's the
Marketing Director at MemoryFox.
Really appreciate all yourinsights, carly.
Thanks for your work in thisspace and thanks for joining me
today.
Thank you so much for having me.
My pleasure.
This has been another episodeof the Nonprofit Hub Radio
Podcast.
I'm your host, megan Spear, andwe'll see you next time.
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Welcome back to the NonprofitHub podcast.
I'm your host, Megan Spear.
Joining me today is Carly Euler, who's the marketing director
for MemoryFox, Very excited todig in to this conversation
(00:46):
around ethical storytelling andthe ethical storytelling report
that just came out.
But before we dig into all ofthat, Carly, welcome to the show
.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Thank you so much for having me.
It's always a pleasure to get achance to talk about ethical
storytelling.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Yeah, fantastic, I know you a little bit from
LinkedIn, but tell the audiencea little bit about you and your
journey into the nonprofit spaceand kind of what led you to our
conversation today.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Sure, I'd love to.
So, like many of us, my journeythat got me into the nonprofit
space was a littleunconventional.
And I say that because I sortof started my career thinking
that I would work in higher edas a lacrosse coach and that was
something that I did for a fewyears.
Okay, very different.
Yeah, very different.
I technically still nonprofitwork, but not exactly like I was
(01:34):
doing after that.
Sure, yeah, I loved coaching.
I thought coaching was just awonderful way that you can, you
know, learn so many things aboutyourself, learn so many things
about being in a team andleadership and sports are just
great.
They've been a great part of mylife.
But I kind of realized prettyearly on into my coaching career
that I don't want to offendanybody listening, but wins
(01:54):
really don't matter most of thetime and they don't actually
impact really anything.
I kind of decided I wanted todo something that I thought was
going to really help people,because my favorite part of
coaching was being able to be apart of a team again and really
help the girls kind of learnthings about themselves and
learn things about their futurecareers.
(02:14):
So I decided to go work innonprofits.
I did that for about 10 years Iworked at several different
nonprofits.
I did a lot of different jobsProbably people listening to
this might laugh at that,because my job title didn't
change very much but I sure dida lot of different things.
So we've all been there, right,we've all been there.
But I ultimately decided youknow, I didn't have one mission
(02:37):
in particular that I felt reallyspoke to me as a person, but on
the flip side, I was veryinspired by a lot of different
missions.
I started thinking about what Ireally wanted to do with my
life and I thought well, I wantto do something where I can
impact hundreds of missionsinstead of just one.
That's how I ended up atMemoryFox.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
I love it and just give me, or give the audience,
just a one sentence summary.
What is MemoryFox and what doyou all do?
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Sure so.
So Memory Fox is a storytellingtool that was built
specifically for nonprofits andwhat we do is we help nonprofits
collect, organize and shareimpact stories, which is
something every nonprofit needs.
But really we kind of removesome of the biggest barriers and
let people do it by collectingdirectly from their community.
And then I know we're going totalk about a lot of ethical
(03:23):
stuff today.
Basically kind of our numberone sort of claim to fame is
that we pride ourselves oncollecting and sharing stories
ethically.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Okay.
So I love that and that'sdefinitely what we're going to
dig into, because you all justreleased the ethical
storytelling report for 2024.
Before we dig into that reportand all of the pieces that you
have to share, let's kind oflevel set for everybody what is
ethical storytelling and how isit different than just what's in
my normal annual report?
Speaker 2 (03:54):
That's a great question and, I think, a really
important one to address.
You're so right for asking that.
Let's just start.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Let's start for the baseline of what it is before we
dig into how it's impacting thesector.
Sure so.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
I think it might be a little easier to set the stage
by taking us back maybe five, 10years if we're thinking about
nonprofit storytelling and howit's evolved.
10 years ago, even five yearsago, it was very common to think
about storytelling as a toolfor fundraising exclusively and
to say I'm going to take a storyfrom someone who we have maybe
(04:28):
helped at our nonprofit, someonewho has participated in a
program, and I'm going to find away to make that story the most
emotional or the saddest orframe it in maybe the most
through a lens of despair andI'm going to now take that and
make it seem like, hey, ournon-profit really led them to
(04:49):
this really huge growth ontohappily ever after right.
People now kind of refer tothat type of storytelling as
poverty porn style storytelling.
Yeah, but maybe even you knowthat does sound a little
dramatic in some cases, but itreally is true that we don't
really have to focus on that asa way to tell our stories any
(05:10):
longer.
We actually have found thatethical storytelling and telling
stories through the lens thatdoes not exploit your
storyteller and does not makethem feel disrespected in any
way actually still will raisefunds, which is ultimately
always our goal.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
I love that.
So I thank you for the baseline, but I also just love that idea
because, you're right, it's soeasy to like.
All right, well, if I justembellish this a little bit and
make them sound even worse, butthen what does that do for their
dignity?
How do we want to preserve that?
And I love, I love the idea oftaking a stand against that.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
And I think so many people who work at nonprofits.
You know we don't get intononprofit work because we want
to make people feel that way.
We sure we want to help people.
That's right, that's at ourcore.
This is sort of I'm more liketo refer to it as kind of a
traditional nonprofitstorytelling and we're kind of
breaking that old tradition andsort of rewriting the way that
we're going to tell stories.
(06:07):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
So let's talk about the Ethical Storytelling Report.
Then what kind of was the genusbehind that?
Where did it come from?
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Yeah, so that's a really interesting story
actually in itself, and that isin 2023, when I joined the
MemoryFox team, we startedreally trying to get ourselves
out there.
We were doing some webinars, wewere doing podcasts, we were
presenting at conferences and wewere talking about video
storytelling, how important itis to share your story via video
and it really didn't matter whowas speaking, what the audience
(06:41):
was or even what the medium wasthat we were talking.
Somebody always asked duringthe Q&A something along the
lines of okay, but what do I doif the people I serve absolutely
must remain anonymous, or theyhave sensitive stories that we
just don't feel comfortableasking them to share?
Sure, and we just got thisquestion so many times and here
(07:03):
at Memory Fox, you know, we werelike, well, wait, we just know
about video storytelling, wehaven't really thought too much
about the actual logistics ofthe collecting stories or the
ethical complications of that,sure.
So we thought, okay, you knowwhat?
Here's what we're going to do.
We're going to host a panel andwe're going to find four
panelists that are dedicated tothis work and I'm going to
(07:28):
collect questions from theaudience and we're going to get
them answered.
And then, you know, ouraudience will learn and we'll
learn and we'll know everythingright.
We just thought we'll just do apanel, we'll figure it out.
But then I opened registrationand we had 400 people register,
which meant that we had over 150questions that were submitted.
(07:49):
And if anybody here has watcheda panel before, you probably
know that panels get to about 10questions at the most Sure.
So we quickly realized thatthere really wasn't an easy path
forward for us to actuallylearn all of the nuances of
ethical storytelling.
I don't know.
We kind of thought maybe wecould get a good grip on it in
60 minutes and we were wrong.
(08:10):
So we decided one day my boss,chris he's the founder of
MemoryFox he kind of said to megosh, these questions are so
good.
I wish there was a way that wecould get these all answered.
And you know, if you ask himhe's sort of the idea guy and
I'm kind of the one who likes toget things done so I was like
(08:34):
now wait a second.
I think we could find a way todo that.
So what I did was I reached outto just those four panelists
that I had on the panel, as wellas everybody that they knew
that was working in ethicalstorytelling, and I sent them
all the questions and I saidwould you mind just submitting
some responses?
I'm going to make a little bookand I'm going to send it out.
And I got flooded with answers.
(08:56):
People really enjoyed sharingtheir perspectives, sharing
their advice.
So then we thought let's make itmore of a really educational
report, right, so these arequestions and answers, but what
is really going to stand out isalso serving the community and
saying or serving the communityreally, so we can get a baseline
of how people are feeling aboutethical storytelling.
(09:17):
Do you currently feel like itis something your organization
does well?
Do you currently feel likeconsent is important to you or
to your organization as a whole?
These are all things that a lotof people who are thinking
about these topics you mightinherently know, kind of what
you think the answers to thosesurvey questions might be.
But I really haven't seenanyone else actually ask before.
(09:40):
So we thought let's put somenumbers to this stuff.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Yeah, that's so interesting.
Obviously, if there's 400people registering for this
panel, it is definitely a topicthat is peaking people's
interest.
Tell me some of the topquestions.
Were there themes that you sawemerge within those?
Yes, we have to assume thatthere's not 150 individual
questions that have no overlapwith each other, right?
Speaker 2 (10:04):
You're exactly right.
So what happened when I askedpeople to submit their own
questions is I then went throughand read each one of them and I
categorized them sort of by atheme.
And you're right, two years agowhen we first launched this
initiative, it ended up becomingabout eight topics, and that's
how the 2023 report ended upbeing written.
And then, even now that I knowso much more, when I was
(10:26):
creating the 2024 report, Iactually got all of the
questions down to three topics.
So this year's report isactually in three sections and
each section has foursubsections.
So the first section is juststrategy and implementation.
So actually how to collect, howto share, how to make a process
(10:46):
at your nonprofit.
So those are all practicalthings, actionable things.
The second section was aboutconsent, and that might sound on
its head like it's a smallsection, but literally we have
gotten so many questions aboutconsent.
Every day we continue to getquestions about all the nuances
(11:07):
that go along with consent, sothat's its own section in the
report.
And then I created this thirdsection that I just called
special considerations in storytypes.
So that includes stories thatinvolve youth or families.
So those have special nuancesto consider that involve youth
or families, so those havespecial nuances to consider.
(11:28):
Or even using AI, and what typeof ethics to consider when it
comes to sharing stories thathave been created either fully
or partially by AI.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Yeah, that's a whole separate component, because you
would I mean, certainly ifyou're talking about children,
if you're talking about anythingmedical, anything, that's maybe
an abuse situation.
There's so many nonprofits thatdeal with that super sensitive
data, even some with HIPAA,where we can't talk about it.
But then the AI is a wholedifferent component of that and
it's interesting because thereport has answers from 30
(11:58):
different people.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
So basically, you get perspectives of people who are
very pro using AI and they'resaying here's how I recommend
using it, here's what you can dofor profit today, and then
there's some answers in therethat are, like you know, I
actually don't recommend it, andthis is why.
So I really enjoy collectingthe responses from so many
people, because you can kind offind what might work best for
(12:22):
your organization, because, asyou just mentioned I mean, you
just mentioned like 10 differentmissions in one sentence, right
?
So every nonprofit hasdifferent considerations.
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So let's talk a little bit inthat first section, on the
(13:26):
strategy side, because I'm surethat there are folks listening,
going, you know.
Yeah, this is actuallysomething that we should
consider.
If somebody has not ever evendipped their toe into the idea
of ethical storytelling aroundtheir nonprofit, what is maybe
on the strategic side?
Where do we even start?
What's your first like asyou're dipping your toe in?
(13:48):
These are the first things toconsider.
Where does that start?
Speaker 2 (13:51):
I love that question.
There are quite a few ways youcould start, but let me, let me
think.
Maybe the two easiest ways thatyou can fully just get started
you could start tomorrow.
Number one would be to considerstrength-based messaging.
So take a look at your website,take a look at the way you
historically write stories.
Try to look through and see ifyou see any language that might
(14:18):
pop out to you as deficit-basedor pop out to you as potentially
exploiting your community.
It might not be obvious to you.
You might need to ask a fewother people, some trusted
colleagues, what do they thinkabout the way you've been
telling stories about andwording things about your
community?
But I think once you sort ofget a handle on a few language
changes, like we no longer wantto use this phrase.
We want to substitute with thisphrase go through your website,
(14:41):
go through your social mediaaccounts and actually make those
changes to feel so much betterthat you did that and you're
also going to let everyoneexternally from now on know that
when they come to your websiteor when they come to your social
media page.
This is something that youbelieve in and this is something
that you are adopting.
So I would say that's a kind ofmaybe not a simple one, but
(15:03):
sort of one that can really getyou going thinking in an ethical
storytelling lens.
And then I would say, when itcomes to actual ethical
storytelling, we know thatreally it sort of starts with
the story collection process.
So, rethinking how you arecollecting stories from your
community, what types of promptsare you asking your community?
(15:23):
Again, do those includestrength-based language?
Are you asking your communityto respond to you in a
strength-based way?
Very important to consider,especially since we a lot of us
are.
When we're story collectors,we're also maybe grant writers
or we are maybe looking overgrant applications and we see so
often that grant applicationscontinue to use deficit-based
(15:45):
language.
So it might not even besomething that you are taking in
on purpose, but you might justbe coming across it.
Definitely, thinking about theway you're collecting stories,
there's kind of a few quickchanges you can make that will
make your story collection moreethical.
Number one would be, obviously,to collect consent up front.
You want to make sure thatwe're not implying any consent.
(16:08):
We don't want people to.
We don't want to feel likepeople are being coerced or
feeling like they gave consentsort of informally.
We want to make sure that'sreally formal.
Actually, let's get people tosign something, let's get people
to click a checkbox, let's makesure they know what they're
agreeing to, and kind of abigger one.
That is sort of a new concept tome since learning all these
(16:30):
things in the report.
But before you've actuallysubmitted that story anywhere or
before you've shared that story, check back in with your
storyteller and say, hey, thisis how the final product came
out.
Are you still okay with this?
And I know that can be achallenge for some people
because you know we havedeadlines, right, and everything
feels really important andreally time sensitive.
(16:52):
But I would say that if we'rethinking about ethical
storytelling, we really need tobe good story stewards in order
to ultimately get better storieson the long run.
So really just being a goodstory steward is super important
, even if you need to push backa couple deadlines here and
there.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
Yeah, First of all, I've never even heard the phrase
a good story steward, but Ireally like it and I'm going to
continue to use that becausewhat a great image.
Let's double back for onesecond from you on something
(17:33):
that is maybe like adeficit-based phrase that we
don't want to use anymore, andwhat a strength-based
alternative would be.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Definitely, and you know what the ones I'm probably
going to share you probably haveheard be reframed several times
at this point.
They're sort of common ones.
But, for example, people are nolonger really using the term
homeless, where we talk aboutpopulations that are of people
being unhoused first.
So we want to make sure thatthe person with their dignity is
(18:00):
put before the actual thingthat has occurred to them.
So people who are unhousedversus homeless.
Another great example that wetend to see for domestic
violence situations, for example, would be victims.
We're not really referring topeople as victims.
We don't see that language asmuch anymore.
We see a lot of people refer topeople who have been in those
(18:23):
situations as survivors.
But I would say these.
So these are kind of maybe themost common examples that you
might see on TV or you might seeon the course, when you're
referring to your community andhow they would like to be
referred to.
There is no better way to referto your community than the way
(18:54):
they tell you they would like tobe referred to.
So asking them is this a waythat you would like us to talk
about your neighborhood or aboutyour street, or about the area
that you live in, or the city orthe state, whatever it might be
.
That is really the way you canbe definitely assured that you
(19:16):
are using the strength-basedterm.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Yeah that's so interesting.
Between the 23 report and the2024 report, were there
significant changes?
Are there things that we'restarting to see?
Oh, this is a trend in ethicalstorytelling that is emerging.
Anything, stand out to youthere in the newest version?
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Yes, I would say that probably the most significant
things that stood out to me wereactually the things that did
not change, and that's because Ithink about these topics all
day, every day.
So I, you know, tend to thinkthat others are too.
But when it came to the surveyresults, I did a survey this
(19:57):
year that really reflected thesame questions that I asked back
in 2023 as well, and I foundthat some of the questions they
really showed no improvement,which was shocking to me, for
example, when we're talkingabout consent.
So I already said consent youknow it's its own section this
year in the report because it'sso, so important, and I was very
(20:17):
pleased to see that in 2023, aswell as 2024, most people by
far the most people over 80%both years they said that they
also believe that consent isextremely important.
So that's great, right, that'sthe baseline, that's what we
want.
However, sort of the sadderpart of the report is that I
then asked the same people, thepeople who submitted the survey,
(20:41):
how do you feel yourorganization feels about consent
, and only 24% said that theyfelt their organization felt it
was extremely important.
So that's obviously a massivedifference.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Yeah, interesting.
So the individual people mightbe trying to drive change.
But organizationally that hasnot maybe caught on yet.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Yeah, Because you would think that if you're in
the role of collecting thestories or sharing the stories
you know that might be themarketers or the fundraisers or
the communications directors youwould think that would mean
they would be prioritizingsomething like that.
And I'm not saying that doesn'tmean that they are prioritizing
it, but at least the perceptionon their end is that they don't
(21:28):
find it to be important fortheir organization.
So it's just very interestingwhen you think of it that way.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
Yeah, that is a much larger gap than I would have
anticipated there to be.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Yeah, I agree.
But I will say one reallypositive thing that came out of
the report, out of the surveythis year, was I asked
respondents how do you feelethical storytelling will impact
fundraising?
Because, you know, sometimes wetalk to people and they mean
well, but they'll say you know,I just think the sadder stories
(21:58):
are going to raise more fundsand that's, you know, what my
leadership thinks, and that'swhat our board thinks, and
that's what I'm going tocontinue to do.
But I would like to share todaythat we actually found in the
report that 42% of ourrespondents said that they have
seen ethical storytelling be aneffective fundraising tool for
them and 37% said that theyhaven't personally had success
(22:22):
yet with ethical storytelling,but they believe that it is true
that they will raise more funds.
So together, that is the vastmajority of people saying hey, I
believe in ethical storytellingand it will raise more funds.
So together, that is the vastmajority of people saying hey, I
believe in ethical storytellingand it will raise more funds.
On the flip side, we only had17% say that they thought it
would not raise more funds orthat it would make no impact on
(22:42):
their fundraising, so itwouldn't make it less.
So I think that's reallytelling that the sector
definitely is beginning to shiftand say this is important to us
and therefore we believe it'simportant to our donors and it's
going to impact us positivelyto tell stories this way.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
Yeah, that is an interesting gap and I understand
it's kind of certainly the oldschool mentality, right, but I
think there's something to besaid for authenticity.
Old school mentality, right, butI think there's something to be
said for authenticity.
And so often I feel like, whenwe either over-exaggerate or
embellish to make somethingsound worse than it was, so that
(23:23):
our fix looks better than itwas right, I think that
audiences are smart enough tosee the inauthentic nature of
that, right.
Yeah, we have a very savvypopulation at this point, right,
because we're bombarded with somany messages, I think it's
easier to discern that feels toocontrived, that feels too made
(23:48):
up, or it couldn't possibly havebeen that bad right.
That feels too made up or itcouldn't possibly have been that
bad right.
Where it would seem to me and Ithink I would put myself in
that population something thatis a more authentic story to me
is going to drive more fundsbecause people aren't going to
ignore it and see through it,because they don't want to.
No one wants to feelmanipulated at the end of the
(24:10):
day, and I'm not going to giveto organization that makes me
feel manipulated or where I feellike my emotions are being
played on just to get more moneyout of me.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
Yes, because it's all about trust.
Right, correct, right.
I'm not going to trust that.
And we are finding I meananecdotally, but also in the
report you're finding that moreand more nonprofits that are
continuing to put people up onstage and make them cry and make
them tell their story.
Yeah, these aren't thingspeople are wanting to see
(24:37):
anymore.
Because we're saying, hey, Iwant to be as a donor, a part of
a long-term solution.
I don't really want to feellike I am saving this person
anymore.
That's kind of an old narrativethat a donor is kind of saving
lives.
I know that many nonprofits dosave lives and I think that you
(24:58):
know the work they're doing isso important.
But this, it's not as easy assaying this person saved this
person, right?
Sure, we are trying to findlong term solutions so things
don't impact people in the sameway that they used to.
That's really what mostnonprofits are in the market for
doing.
So you're exactly right whenwe're putting people up on stage
(25:19):
and we're making them cry orwe're filming them and
interviewing them in a way wherethey must tell the worst things
that have happened to them orrelive the biggest trauma
they've experienced, it's veryfew and far between that, those
people walk away from thoseexperiences feeling better and,
to your point, right, somebodywho has had some sort of
(25:40):
traumatic situation in theirlife.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
The last thing I want anyone to do is exploit that
for dollars.
There has to be.
That's why I'm very excitedabout this whole report, because
we have to do better as asector than continuing to
exploit the people that we servefor the sake of a few more
dollars.
Where I think the authenticityof yep, here's what we do,
here's how it impacts lives.
(26:04):
There's better ways to do that,then you're right.
Then making somebody get up andrelive this trauma over and
over again for the sake of ourfundraiser dinners?
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Definitely, and what we're simply saying is you can
tell stories from differentperspectives.
Yes, you can tell stories fromyou know, you're the program
manager and you experiencedthese things in real time
working with people.
You experienced the hope thatthey lived through, the hope
that you felt when you gave thatcall, that their grant was made
to them.
(26:33):
There are things that you cando that are really inspiring and
really elicit positive emotionsand again bring those donors
into being a long-term part ofthe solution.
You know everyone's talkingabout recurring giving.
That's a constant thing thatpeople are worried about and
wanting to increase, constantthing that people are worried
about and wanting to increase,and I truly believe that when
(26:53):
you are giving donors thepositive outcomes in a way where
they feel like they were a partof that impact, that's what's
going to make people want togive again, because they want to
help more people.
That's kind of just how itworks.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
I love it.
Carly, this has been afantastic conversation, Really
really interesting.
If somebody wanted to go findthe ethical storytelling report
or connect with you to learnmore, where would they go to do
that and how would they find you?
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Yeah, so you can find me on LinkedIn.
I'm also on TikTok.
I post a lot of videos onTikTok.
So if people are worried abouthow to take a selfie video or
how to talk to a camera, you cansee all my examples.
But in terms of finding theethical storytelling report,
that can be found at memoryfoxiobackslash ethical dash
storytelling.
So I will send you that link.
(27:41):
And, honestly, if anybody wantsto follow us on LinkedIn, on
Instagram, facebook I'm postingon there constantly from our
account as well.
I'd love to stay connected.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
That's awesome.
Well, carly, thank you so muchfor joining us.
I am sure that there will be aton of people going to check
this report out, because itreally is just a fascinating
look at what I think is a reallyimportant topic.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
I hope that it is.
I hope people find it helpful,and there is within the report a
way where you can submitfeedback as well.
So if you have questions theywant answered next year or they
want to see a topic highlighted,please let me know.
I am dying to figure out whatelse to include and how I can
better help people.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
I love it Awesome.
Well again, my guest today hasbeen Carly Euler, who's the
Marketing Director at MemoryFox.
Really appreciate all yourinsights, carly.
Thanks for your work in thisspace and thanks for joining me
today.
Thank you so much for having me.
My pleasure.
This has been another episodeof the Nonprofit Hub Radio
Podcast.
I'm your host, megan Spear, andwe'll see you next time.
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