June 20, 2025 • 29 mins
In this inspiring episode, Ken Miller shares his journey from foster care to becoming a lifelong mentor to over 50 men. With heartfelt candor, he unpacks the key differences between mentoring, coaching, and workplace sponsorship—emphasizing that true mentorship is always free, relational, and focused on the whole person. Ken’s approach begins with a powerful question: “What is your dream?” and aims to help others rediscover the ability to dream. He also discusses the unique challenges faced by women and people of color in finding mentors and how his organization, Men of Color in Development, addresses this need. Whether you're seeking a mentor, becoming one, or building a culture of support, this episode offers practical insight for every stage of your nonprofit journey.
Get free nonprofit professional development resources, connections to cause work peers, and more at https://nonprofithub.org
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Drowning in spreadsheets and manual
processes.
Bonterra Apricot is the smarter, faster way for nonprofits to
manage programs, track outcomesand actually show your impact.
Find out how at BonterraTechcomslash Nonprofit Hub.
Welcome back to the NonprofitHub podcast.
I'm your host, megan Spear, andjoining me today is Ken Miller,
(00:23):
who is an author, speaker,mentor, business owner and, from
what I understand, all aroundnice guy.
Real excited to have Ken on theshow.
Today we're going to be digginginto a topic that I don't think
we've talked about yet, atleast this season on the podcast
around mentorship and coachingand sponsorship and what it
really means to empowernonprofit leaders.
(00:44):
So I'm really excited to diginto this, ken.
Welcome in, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Thank you, megan, it's my pleasure to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Fantastic.
So tell us a little bit aboutyourself and your journey that
led us here today, yourbackground with nonprofit folks
and your overall experiencebefore we dig in here.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Sure, I think it's somewhat good to give a little
background because it explainsmy why and why I give back so
much to the philanthropiccommunity, because that's what I
really do.
So, real quick, in 1962, I wasborn.
My mother was a teenage runaway, my dad was unfortunately a
drug dealer and a pimp, wow andI was in it for adoption at
(01:23):
birth.
So I did six years in fosterhomes.
I was adopted when I was agesix and I moved from New York to
Anchorage, alaska.
So a lot of people know me inthe field Ken from Alaska.
Oh, did you talk to Ken fromAlaska?
But anyway, I grew up in Alaska.
I was what they call precocious.
I was a national merit scholarin high school, accepted to
Harvard, I went to DartmouthCollege, got my degree from
(01:44):
Dartmouth College, graduatedwith a degree in fraternity with
a minor in drinking, and it didnot do me well as soon as I got
out.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
I know a couple of people.
Yeah, I was the first.
Yeah, I've met a couple ofthose guys.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
I got out and went into the corporate world and
corporate sales, did that fortwo or three years, but
unfortunately I had a substancemisuse problem predominantly
cocaine and alcohol and so Iended up within a year of being
homeless on the streets, and Iwas a remain homeless for about
20 years and in and out of jails, institutions and three prison
(02:23):
terms, did many years behindbars and then finally, in 2007,
I was released.
I had no skills, had no skills,and I was fortunate enough to
get a position as a developmentdirector with a soup kitchen.
I knew that world, but I wouldhave been at this point.
I'd been cleaning soap forabout four or five years and I
(02:44):
took to it like duck to water,fell in love with the community,
and so that's how I entered thefield of philanthropy, but
really into the field offundraising.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
That's so interesting .
I'm sure we could do a wholeextra episode just on that
experience and that background.
But I'm going to venture aguess, and I know one of the
things that you're passionateabout is that mentorship and
that coaching, and I'm going toassume there had to be some
people along the way that helpedyou significantly in that way,
in that process, to get to whereyou are.
(03:17):
Is that where your passion camefrom, or is it because nobody
helped you and you want to givesomebody else a better
experience came from?
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Or is it because nobody helped you and you want
to give somebody else a betterexperience?
When I first got out of college, there were a couple of
gentlemen who did mentor me Okay, and this was 1985.
I'm 21, 22 years old because Ididn't have a strong father
figure and I was also lookingfor a black gentleman older that
could show me the ropes, sure.
(03:46):
So I did do that for a coupleof years, but then again, with
the relapse, I ended up on thestreets and, yeah, I probably
have some mentors on the streets, but I'm not going to count
them.
So I get out and in 2010, I wasawarded an award from NAACP
Anchorage chapter, and when Iwent to make my speech which I
(04:08):
did not know I was going to makea speech I go up there and I
said you saw these young men andwomen that walked across the
stage.
My charge to you, mr and MrsBlack bourgeoisie from Anchorage
, alaska, is to reach down tothese young men and women and
mentor them, support them ontheir journey.
My word is my bond and I'mgoing to do that.
(04:30):
So I got off the stage, I wentto the last gentleman that I saw
receive an award and I've beenmentoring ever since 2010.
Wow, I've probably mentoredabout 40 or 50 young men, men of
all persuasions, butpredominantly black men.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
I love the impact, because the ripple effect of
that, then, is so powerful tothink about.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Yes, and in fact the name of my organization or group
.
They call it a group and thiswas always for free.
It's called the Pass it Ongroup of mentoring, and so I
have right now we have fourgenerations of Black men
mentoring Black men.
That's a very specific fieldand I also mentor individuals
(05:17):
from other backgrounds and I doa lot of mentoring in the
fundraising world itself andthose gentlemen now are all over
the country.
Originally it was justAnchorage.
Those gentlemen now are allover the country.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Originally it was just Anchorage, but now they're
all over the country.
So as we sit here recording,we're coming to the season where
a lot of folks are justgraduating from college.
They may be starting thosefirst jobs.
We see a lot of I know we see alot of nonprofit folks that
enter the field over the summercoming into maybe those first
roles.
Lot of nonprofit folks thatenter the field over the summer
coming into maybe those firstroles.
If you were speaking to thoseindividuals, those new grads,
(05:49):
those brand new green in thefield- what would you encourage
them to do or what process couldthey?
Speaker 2 (06:02):
follow to go find a mentor, Because I'll give you an
example For me it was alwayslike I loved the idea, but the
idea of going and askingsomebody who's that much further
ahead in their career feltreally intimidating, and so I
(06:24):
feel like I let myself miss outon a lot of opportunities
because I didn new to thefundraising fields and you're
not understanding what it meansto make the ask.
Yeah, you ask fundraisers,whether it's major gift work,
whether it's annual campaign,whether it's planned giving.
You're making the ask and theask is very simple a question
desiring a response, and theonly responses that you will get
(06:46):
are yes, no and not now.
Those are the three responsesthat we get.
So what we do is we identifyand I'm pretty big on this is
try to identify someone that yourespect their walk and you
respect what they'veaccomplished.
And then what I recommend and Iteach this in one of my classes,
(07:07):
because a lot of times I'lljust call up and say can I take
you out for a cup of coffee?
I'd like to pick your brain,and what I mean is I'd like to
ask you some questions, and formost people they're so
comfortable with that becauseit's not hubris so much in that
somebody sees I have value, insomething that I may share with
(07:27):
them and that the conversationgoes well.
Very simply, would you mindmentoring me?
Are you open to mentoring me?
I am hungry to learn and I'mhungry to have someone.
Let me know, maybe, what someof the obstacles or areas of
(07:48):
challenge that are within ourfield, as in any field.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Yeah, that's a great point.
So let's talk about, then, whatmentoring is and what it isn't.
Give me your perspective onthere.
What should the mentoringrelationship look like, what is
the goal of it, and then how dowe make sure that that becomes
like a solid foundation from thestart?
Speaker 2 (08:13):
So the first thing you have to look at is
antithesis or look at opposites.
First of all, mentoring is notcoaching.
That's number one A lot ofpeople misunderstand.
Coaching is a paid engagement.
When you get coached, it's apaid engagement between the
coach and the coachee.
Mentoring is an engagement andor relationship between the
(08:39):
mentor and the mentee.
Mentoring you listen.
In coaching, you ask a lot ofquestions of the coach.
It's seeking answers.
But mentoring is much morewhere the mentee is doing most
of the listening and the mentoris doing most of the talking.
That's a very common point.
Mentoring is always free,always.
(08:59):
Coaching usually has afee-based system to it and we
talk about a third one, whichwe'll talk about a little bit
later, which is workplacesponsorship, which is the third
component.
So we have the mentoring anddifferent people mentor
different ways, but there isbest practices.
Believe me on that.
I've been teaching this for 15years.
(09:21):
I've been mentoring.
At one point I had 29 men allover the country that I mentored
for free, but now I'm down to10 because I had to cut it back.
It was just taking too much ofmy time.
Coaching is almost alwaystime-delimited in that there is
a time frame six months, threemonths, one year, whatever it
(09:41):
may be whereas mentoring isopen-ended Good mentoring is
open-ended.
There's no time frame.
I've been that same gentlemanin 2010 that I met Xavier Mason
is his name.
I still mentor him.
Still, every quarter we meet.
Fifteen years we've been eatingOkay.
So let me just say this is oneof the most important things
that I say.
(10:01):
When I sit down with anindividual gentleman, I only
mentor men.
I always will say this firstthing my goal, and my only goal,
is to engender dreams.
What is your dream?
And then I shut up and I listenfor the dream, because I want
(10:25):
to know what your aspiration is.
I want to know your goal, butit's more.
It's the dream, and I'm goingto do everything within my power
and my resources to assist youin obtaining this dream.
I have sat down with grown menwho have cried because their
dream came true.
It took four years, it took sixyears, but, as a man, to have a
(10:47):
dream that you didn't even knowcould happen could come to
fruition, to sit down with a manand say what is your dream, a
man, and say what is your dreamand have them struggle with
identifying because that dreamhas been taken away from them,
by their peers, by their parents, by their schoolmates, by their
(11:07):
teachers.
No, you can't dream that You'rejust X, y, z.
And then I say no, I give youpermission to dream.
I say that it was like words.
I give you permission to dream.
Take your time and let me knowwhat is your dream.
It doesn't mean we can't changeit in time.
And then there are specifictactics that I have where I can
(11:31):
assist you with to help engenderthat dream.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
That's so good.
I really like the distinction,though, because I think you're
right, mentoring and coachinghave tended to become synonymous
when they're not, but the ideaof and maybe it's where it makes
me not want to considermentorship, because I've put
(11:59):
them into the same boat and Ithink I'm realizing as part of
this conversation I'm sure otherpeople are too that there
really is that distinction thatwe have to keep in mind.
So I really, yeah, I reallyappreciate that call out.
You mentioned another one,though, and I'd love for you to
define a little bit of what thatlooks like, and that is the
idea of workplace sponsorship.
So what's that third piece ofthe triangle there?
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Yeah, a lot of people don't know that one, or
understand it or have experienceor don't know they have
experienced it.
So workplace sponsorship isusually an individual in the
C-suite or in upper managementidentifies individuals within
the organization that they'regoing to quote, unquote sponsor.
So they're going to provideopportunities, whether you know
(12:46):
it or not, so that you can grow,because I see value in you, I
see potential in you.
Good workplace sponsorship isabout the individual that you
see this potential in that youwant to enhance.
So I'm going to send you toconferences, I'm going to get
you on this team, I'm going tolet you volunteer for this event
(13:08):
that you'll get exposed toother individuals, whatever it
may be, but it's workplacesponsorship and good management
and leadership promotes this.
Who do you see?
Who do you see at this level?
We're at this level that weshould invest resources and time
(13:30):
and money in.
The US military has done thisfor years because they
understand the power of colonelsand we call flag officers a
flag rank, whatever it may be,identifying lieutenants,
identifying captains, that wecan send them to different
schools because what we play foris so important.
(13:52):
But we still do this in thecorporate.
I didn't even know I was beingworkplace sponsored.
I haven't done workplacesponsorship because I have the
resources, capabilities and alsoI can make the decision to do
this for you.
All you know is you got sent toa free conference.
No, I paid for it.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
But I've done that for people within my.
I used to be an executivedirector, so I've done that for
individuals within my.
I used to be an executivedirector, so I've done that for
individuals within myorganizations, and then I do I'm
an interim executive directorprobably never do it again.
It's so much work.
You know there's a fill in.
You know I'm like a substituteteacher or a nonprofit a million
(14:32):
dollar, nonprofit, two million,so, but anyway, that's
workplace sponsorship.
So how do you find a workplacesponsor?
First of all, again, they'reidentifying you, but you got to
get around them.
One of the best ways to find aworkplace sponsor is to
volunteer to do things withinthe organization volunteer to be
(14:54):
on this committee, volunteer tobe on this team, volunteer to
be on this team, volunteer tohelp out at this event.
How can I get in front of thoseindividuals that make the
decision that see that I'mhungry, see that I'm curious and
see that I want to grow within?
And then the other one is go toyour team lead or your
supervisors or those inmanagement and say I want to
(15:15):
grow.
This was my dream that in twoto three years I'll be the chief
development officer, I'll be adevelopment director, I'll be a
major gift officer or I'll havea team in the annual campaigns
of data management, whatever itmay be.
But I'm curious and I'm hungryand I just want to let you know
that know that Ever feel likeyou're stuck managing programs
(15:42):
in spreadsheets and scatteredsystems.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
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(16:06):
hub today.
From your experience, I'mcurious the thought process here
If somebody is because I thinkwe have both members in our
audience right we have theexecutive directors and the
leaders, the C-suite leaders, ifyou will and we have some folks
(16:27):
who are just starting out.
This is their first gig andthey are young and hungry, ready
to go.
Generally find, if somebody ismaybe the c-suite level, the
leader are, is it best for themwithin their workplace to
obviously do the sponsorship andthen mentor someone outside of
it, or can workplace sponsorshipand mentorship go hand in hand?
Speaker 2 (16:52):
workplace sponsorship , if done, best practices.
You don't know it?
Okay, it's number one numberone.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Oh interesting, okay, yeah, yeah, now with.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
C3 knows.
They're like how's Bob doing,how's Jane doing?
You know, and you go around alot of ones.
You'll go around and say well,how are your, your individuals
that you take an interest in onbehalf of the company, how are
they doing?
Okay, that's number one.
Number two is I am not.
(17:22):
This is a tough one.
I'm not a big fan of mentoringwithin the organization unless
the organization is very big,because there's too many
dynamics, whether it's like adirect report or even above a
direct report, because if you goabove the direct report,
they're like you're going to myboss to be mentor, or he's
(17:44):
mentoring or she's mentoring you.
Yeah, what I say, is itpossible?
Stay within the field if youwant.
This is one thing that's alsomisunderstood about mentoring.
Most of the time in mentoring,it's not about technical skills,
it's about supporting you onthe journey.
(18:05):
I'll introduce you to people, Iwill maybe send you some
information or help you identifywhich sessions to go to at ICON
, afp, icon, sure.
So I'm giving you informationand then I'm also, but one of
the big parts is supportingpeople emotionally.
The biggest difficulty I'vebeen teaching this webinar or
(18:29):
workshop for 10 years plus thebiggest difficulty I have found
is individuals of color or womentrying to find mentors.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Because most of the time, the individual that you're
looking to that have reachedthis level or expertise or
gravitas are men.
I don't mentor women, period.
I don't.
I'm a married man.
I just I've seen too much in mylife.
But it's hard for women.
They want someone.
And can I mentor with this guy?
(19:01):
Or I'm Asian American and I'mlooking for someone Asian
American.
So one of the things that,again, if you're looking to grow
and it's not all technical lookoutside your field.
You will go and you will meetpeople who are successful in
other areas.
What we're looking for is whatare the principles of success?
(19:22):
What are the principles ofinter-organization dynamics,
human dynamics, dynamics ofworking up, working down and
working sideways within anorganization, because I teach
all that when I work with myguys.
So those are the two mainthings I find white men mentor.
(19:44):
White men, I mean, I feel mostcomfortable with, or the ones
that are approaching them.
Okay, yes, but they have atendency to mentor or, even
worse, workplace sponsorindividuals.
Oh yeah, he golfs too.
He's 23.
(20:05):
And I golf.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
He reminds me of myself when I was younger.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Exactly, and you're hungry and plus, you might have
kids and you're the head of thefamily.
They may be old school in thatarea and so it makes it
difficult sometimes for them tolook outside.
That was one of the key reasonsI started Men of Color in
Development is so that black mencould see that there are black
(20:31):
men in the fundraising field whohave reached levels of
prominence, success and orcompetency.
So one of the things that I'vespent a bit of time is
identifying those gentlemen.
And then I asked hey, would youmentor young black men in this
field?
Yeah, nine out of 10.
(20:52):
Sure, who do you got?
I'm not saying you need to do29, but if you can do two or
three it would be so great.
And the young men when I sayyoung, anything up to mid
forties, they love it.
They didn't think that theycould find anybody in the field
actually that would be able tosupport them.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Well and it's interesting.
Unfortunately, a podcastaudience can't necessarily see
your face, but the face that youmade in response to somebody
asking, let's say, somebody intheir 50s, early 60s, would you
consider mentoring down a levelEven the face you made at
pretending to be asked lit upyour eyes in a really exciting
(21:37):
way, and I think so often wedon't realize the impact that we
can have right, we're so in thetrenches a lot of times that
until somebody says, hey, I'vegot this guy, this girl, would
you be interested in mentoringfor somebody to see that value
in you and say, would you bewilling to come alongside this
person?
(21:57):
It makes us realize our ownvalue in a way that I don't
think we get to do regularly inour career, and so I think
that's something that I wouldencourage a lot of folks about
is you do have something tooffer.
Everybody has something tooffer to the folks coming up
behind them.
I was struck by how excitedyour face got at the idea of
(22:18):
being able to give back when youwere just imitating somebody
who was being asked that.
It's cool to think about whatthat can do to somebody in their
own career and make them reallyembrace the wisdom and the
knowledge and the success thatthey have, when maybe they might
not see that in themselvesregularly.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
Let me give you another side of this.
Many of the men that I'vespoken to who are mentoring, it
gives them life.
Yeah, I would just like to sitdown with someone who's hungry
to be a great fundraiser, but,more importantly, I mentor the
(22:58):
whole person.
They're hungry to be a betterfather, they're hungry to be a
better husband or partner, andwhen you see that light in their
eyes, that remember.
The one of the most importantthings I do as a mentor is I do
this.
I see you, I acknowledge you.
(23:18):
I acknowledge you with yourfaults and, believe me, I dealt
with some faults.
I see you with your setbacksdealt with some faults.
I see you with your setbacks,your stubbing of the toe.
I see you in your pain rightnow.
I acknowledge that.
And there's something else Ialways do.
(23:39):
These are my suggestions,because there's one of two
things that's going to happen atevery group Every time I meet.
I meet for one hour with thesegentlemen every three months,
and the two things that aregoing to come out of that are,
very simply, this I will giveyou a suggestion, a suggested
path, and a lot of times we justneed to hear that this is
(24:01):
probably what I was thinking Ineed to do next anyway, but I
just need that validation.
And then the other one is I'mjust going to listen, I'm just
going to let you get this out.
You have a safe, trusting placeto get this out.
And here I am an older blackman that believes in you,
because again, and I don't wantto make this like a black thing,
(24:24):
but in our community black men,we've had some difficulties
being filed, sure, okay, andI'll just leave it at that.
I mean, I was locked up withthousands.
Okay, that we were not there,yeah, including me yeah, if
somebody is.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
I want to speak specifically to those executive
directors at the moment, becauseall of this sounds really great
, but a lot of it has to come,especially on the workplace
sponsorship idea.
A lot of that has to come fromthe top.
Culture is driven from the top.
So if we're talking to theexecutive director specifically,
what's the message to them?
How do we inspire the rest ofour C-suite to start thinking in
(25:05):
that regard?
How do we start to reallyourselves be putting the
framework on to understand?
Where can I look at workplacesponsorship?
Where can I really, how can Iinstill that in my team so that
it becomes a culture where we'reconstantly empowering the folks
coming up underneath?
Speaker 2 (25:23):
The first thing I would say is learn about
workplace sponsorship.
You can Google it.
It's not original.
With me, I can guarantee youthat.
So you learn about it and thenbe intentional to do it, because
you have team leads.
It depends on the size of yourorganization.
I've been in an organizationwith four people, but I'm
telling you, you have team leads, you have management, and the
(25:46):
thing that I would say is Iwould like for each of y'all to
read this about workplacesponsorship, and then I want you
to identify one or two peoplethat you think would be worthy
or would be good for us tosponsor, and then it is your
position or your charge to keeptabs on them, observe them,
(26:11):
question them, because whatwe're going to do is we will
allocate funding, I'll allocatetime as you sitting down with
that person, taking them tolunch, coffee, whatever it may
be, to talk to them.
How did the conference go?
What did you learn at theconference?
Oh, excellent.
Wow, we have this new teamwe're putting together that.
(26:31):
We're going to do X, y, z.
Would you be interested?
And if the person's hungry, theywould.
And then, if they're listeningto this and you get offered a
volunteer position or volunteeror offer to volunteer for
something that again could betaking away capacity of time,
(26:52):
potentially a little bit ofmoney, but I doubt that.
But time, do it?
Show that you're hungry to grow, and I love the word grow.
And the other thing is, I'm abig one on leadership, leading
by example, and so, yes, youhave team leads here, but you
(27:16):
can sponsor them, yeah,especially if they don't know
anything about it or even not do, because some people you learn
that you're being sponsored.
Some people will come up to yousay I'm sponsoring you or I'm
keeping an eye on you.
Because in the end though Ialways say this when I talk to
(27:38):
the individuals that havelooking to be workplace
sponsored I said you still gottashow results.
You still have to show results.
That's a little backroom.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
I love it.
Ken.
This has been so good.
If somebody wanted to learnmore or connect with you and
find out more about some of thiswork or the coaching and
consulting and mentoring thatyou do, how would they find you?
What's the best way to connect?
Speaker 2 (28:01):
LinkedIn.
Linkedin Miller 84.
Or you can call me.
I have one phone number.
I'm not afraid I've had thesame number for 15 years
907-250-8488.
And I pick up my phone.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
I love it.
So I have no problem.
Oh, I love it.
Excellent, as we wrap up.
I've been asking everybody kindof the same question as we wrap
up the season If you could giveone piece of advice to a
nonprofit leader, what?
Speaker 2 (28:33):
would that be in this moment To a nonprofit leader,
not a new individual coming intothe sector.
Nonprofit leader.
Seek outside counsel, Get amentor Just because you're the
CEO of XYZ.
I own businesses.
I own five businesses and Ihave mentors Alphonse Brown Jr
(28:56):
and a guy named Jim Posey andAlphonse is pretty well known in
the fundraising world,especially AFP, past chair of
the AFP Global Board ofDirectors.
So, anyway, that's what I sayto do, Even though I mentor how
many?
I've been doing this for 15years.
I have book clubs, all thatstuff.
I still mentor Because thereare times where this gets tough
(29:19):
being a business owner or beingeven in the fundraising field
and I can reach out to him andsay, hey, this is my truth.
Drowning in spreadsheets and manual
processes.
Bonterra Apricot is the smarter, faster way for nonprofits to
manage programs, track outcomesand actually show your impact.
Find out how at BonterraTechcomslash Nonprofit Hub.
Welcome back to the NonprofitHub podcast.
I'm your host, megan Spear, andjoining me today is Ken Miller,
(00:23):
who is an author, speaker,mentor, business owner and, from
what I understand, all aroundnice guy.
Real excited to have Ken on theshow.
Today we're going to be digginginto a topic that I don't think
we've talked about yet, atleast this season on the podcast
around mentorship and coachingand sponsorship and what it
really means to empowernonprofit leaders.
(00:44):
So I'm really excited to diginto this, ken.
Welcome in, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Thank you, megan, it's my pleasure to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Fantastic.
So tell us a little bit aboutyourself and your journey that
led us here today, yourbackground with nonprofit folks
and your overall experiencebefore we dig in here.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Sure, I think it's somewhat good to give a little
background because it explainsmy why and why I give back so
much to the philanthropiccommunity, because that's what I
really do.
So, real quick, in 1962, I wasborn.
My mother was a teenage runaway, my dad was unfortunately a
drug dealer and a pimp, wow andI was in it for adoption at
(01:23):
birth.
So I did six years in fosterhomes.
I was adopted when I was agesix and I moved from New York to
Anchorage, alaska.
So a lot of people know me inthe field Ken from Alaska.
Oh, did you talk to Ken fromAlaska?
But anyway, I grew up in Alaska.
I was what they call precocious.
I was a national merit scholarin high school, accepted to
Harvard, I went to DartmouthCollege, got my degree from
(01:44):
Dartmouth College, graduatedwith a degree in fraternity with
a minor in drinking, and it didnot do me well as soon as I got
out.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
I know a couple of people.
Yeah, I was the first.
Yeah, I've met a couple ofthose guys.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
I got out and went into the corporate world and
corporate sales, did that fortwo or three years, but
unfortunately I had a substancemisuse problem predominantly
cocaine and alcohol and so Iended up within a year of being
homeless on the streets, and Iwas a remain homeless for about
20 years and in and out of jails, institutions and three prison
(02:23):
terms, did many years behindbars and then finally, in 2007,
I was released.
I had no skills, had no skills,and I was fortunate enough to
get a position as a developmentdirector with a soup kitchen.
I knew that world, but I wouldhave been at this point.
I'd been cleaning soap forabout four or five years and I
(02:44):
took to it like duck to water,fell in love with the community,
and so that's how I entered thefield of philanthropy, but
really into the field offundraising.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
That's so interesting .
I'm sure we could do a wholeextra episode just on that
experience and that background.
But I'm going to venture aguess, and I know one of the
things that you're passionateabout is that mentorship and
that coaching, and I'm going toassume there had to be some
people along the way that helpedyou significantly in that way,
in that process, to get to whereyou are.
(03:17):
Is that where your passion camefrom, or is it because nobody
helped you and you want to givesomebody else a better
experience came from?
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Or is it because nobody helped you and you want
to give somebody else a betterexperience?
When I first got out of college, there were a couple of
gentlemen who did mentor me Okay, and this was 1985.
I'm 21, 22 years old because Ididn't have a strong father
figure and I was also lookingfor a black gentleman older that
could show me the ropes, sure.
(03:46):
So I did do that for a coupleof years, but then again, with
the relapse, I ended up on thestreets and, yeah, I probably
have some mentors on the streets, but I'm not going to count
them.
So I get out and in 2010, I wasawarded an award from NAACP
Anchorage chapter, and when Iwent to make my speech which I
(04:08):
did not know I was going to makea speech I go up there and I
said you saw these young men andwomen that walked across the
stage.
My charge to you, mr and MrsBlack bourgeoisie from Anchorage
, alaska, is to reach down tothese young men and women and
mentor them, support them ontheir journey.
My word is my bond and I'mgoing to do that.
(04:30):
So I got off the stage, I wentto the last gentleman that I saw
receive an award and I've beenmentoring ever since 2010.
Wow, I've probably mentoredabout 40 or 50 young men, men of
all persuasions, butpredominantly black men.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
I love the impact, because the ripple effect of
that, then, is so powerful tothink about.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Yes, and in fact the name of my organization or group
.
They call it a group and thiswas always for free.
It's called the Pass it Ongroup of mentoring, and so I
have right now we have fourgenerations of Black men
mentoring Black men.
That's a very specific fieldand I also mentor individuals
(05:17):
from other backgrounds and I doa lot of mentoring in the
fundraising world itself andthose gentlemen now are all over
the country.
Originally it was justAnchorage.
Those gentlemen now are allover the country.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Originally it was just Anchorage, but now they're
all over the country.
So as we sit here recording,we're coming to the season where
a lot of folks are justgraduating from college.
They may be starting thosefirst jobs.
We see a lot of I know we see alot of nonprofit folks that
enter the field over the summercoming into maybe those first
roles.
Lot of nonprofit folks thatenter the field over the summer
coming into maybe those firstroles.
If you were speaking to thoseindividuals, those new grads,
(05:49):
those brand new green in thefield- what would you encourage
them to do or what process couldthey?
Speaker 2 (06:02):
follow to go find a mentor, Because I'll give you an
example For me it was alwayslike I loved the idea, but the
idea of going and askingsomebody who's that much further
ahead in their career feltreally intimidating, and so I
(06:24):
feel like I let myself miss outon a lot of opportunities
because I didn new to thefundraising fields and you're
not understanding what it meansto make the ask.
Yeah, you ask fundraisers,whether it's major gift work,
whether it's annual campaign,whether it's planned giving.
You're making the ask and theask is very simple a question
desiring a response, and theonly responses that you will get
(06:46):
are yes, no and not now.
Those are the three responsesthat we get.
So what we do is we identifyand I'm pretty big on this is
try to identify someone that yourespect their walk and you
respect what they'veaccomplished.
And then what I recommend and Iteach this in one of my classes,
(07:07):
because a lot of times I'lljust call up and say can I take
you out for a cup of coffee?
I'd like to pick your brain,and what I mean is I'd like to
ask you some questions, and formost people they're so
comfortable with that becauseit's not hubris so much in that
somebody sees I have value, insomething that I may share with
(07:27):
them and that the conversationgoes well.
Very simply, would you mindmentoring me?
Are you open to mentoring me?
I am hungry to learn and I'mhungry to have someone.
Let me know, maybe, what someof the obstacles or areas of
(07:48):
challenge that are within ourfield, as in any field.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Yeah, that's a great point.
So let's talk about, then, whatmentoring is and what it isn't.
Give me your perspective onthere.
What should the mentoringrelationship look like, what is
the goal of it, and then how dowe make sure that that becomes
like a solid foundation from thestart?
Speaker 2 (08:13):
So the first thing you have to look at is
antithesis or look at opposites.
First of all, mentoring is notcoaching.
That's number one A lot ofpeople misunderstand.
Coaching is a paid engagement.
When you get coached, it's apaid engagement between the
coach and the coachee.
Mentoring is an engagement andor relationship between the
(08:39):
mentor and the mentee.
Mentoring you listen.
In coaching, you ask a lot ofquestions of the coach.
It's seeking answers.
But mentoring is much morewhere the mentee is doing most
of the listening and the mentoris doing most of the talking.
That's a very common point.
Mentoring is always free,always.
(08:59):
Coaching usually has afee-based system to it and we
talk about a third one, whichwe'll talk about a little bit
later, which is workplacesponsorship, which is the third
component.
So we have the mentoring anddifferent people mentor
different ways, but there isbest practices.
Believe me on that.
I've been teaching this for 15years.
(09:21):
I've been mentoring.
At one point I had 29 men allover the country that I mentored
for free, but now I'm down to10 because I had to cut it back.
It was just taking too much ofmy time.
Coaching is almost alwaystime-delimited in that there is
a time frame six months, threemonths, one year, whatever it
(09:41):
may be whereas mentoring isopen-ended Good mentoring is
open-ended.
There's no time frame.
I've been that same gentlemanin 2010 that I met Xavier Mason
is his name.
I still mentor him.
Still, every quarter we meet.
Fifteen years we've been eatingOkay.
So let me just say this is oneof the most important things
that I say.
(10:01):
When I sit down with anindividual gentleman, I only
mentor men.
I always will say this firstthing my goal, and my only goal,
is to engender dreams.
What is your dream?
And then I shut up and I listenfor the dream, because I want
(10:25):
to know what your aspiration is.
I want to know your goal, butit's more.
It's the dream, and I'm goingto do everything within my power
and my resources to assist youin obtaining this dream.
I have sat down with grown menwho have cried because their
dream came true.
It took four years, it took sixyears, but, as a man, to have a
(10:47):
dream that you didn't even knowcould happen could come to
fruition, to sit down with a manand say what is your dream, a
man, and say what is your dreamand have them struggle with
identifying because that dreamhas been taken away from them,
by their peers, by their parents, by their schoolmates, by their
(11:07):
teachers.
No, you can't dream that You'rejust X, y, z.
And then I say no, I give youpermission to dream.
I say that it was like words.
I give you permission to dream.
Take your time and let me knowwhat is your dream.
It doesn't mean we can't changeit in time.
And then there are specifictactics that I have where I can
(11:31):
assist you with to help engenderthat dream.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
That's so good.
I really like the distinction,though, because I think you're
right, mentoring and coachinghave tended to become synonymous
when they're not, but the ideaof and maybe it's where it makes
me not want to considermentorship, because I've put
(11:59):
them into the same boat and Ithink I'm realizing as part of
this conversation I'm sure otherpeople are too that there
really is that distinction thatwe have to keep in mind.
So I really, yeah, I reallyappreciate that call out.
You mentioned another one,though, and I'd love for you to
define a little bit of what thatlooks like, and that is the
idea of workplace sponsorship.
So what's that third piece ofthe triangle there?
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Yeah, a lot of people don't know that one, or
understand it or have experienceor don't know they have
experienced it.
So workplace sponsorship isusually an individual in the
C-suite or in upper managementidentifies individuals within
the organization that they'regoing to quote, unquote sponsor.
So they're going to provideopportunities, whether you know
(12:46):
it or not, so that you can grow,because I see value in you, I
see potential in you.
Good workplace sponsorship isabout the individual that you
see this potential in that youwant to enhance.
So I'm going to send you toconferences, I'm going to get
you on this team, I'm going tolet you volunteer for this event
(13:08):
that you'll get exposed toother individuals, whatever it
may be, but it's workplacesponsorship and good management
and leadership promotes this.
Who do you see?
Who do you see at this level?
We're at this level that weshould invest resources and time
(13:30):
and money in.
The US military has done thisfor years because they
understand the power of colonelsand we call flag officers a
flag rank, whatever it may be,identifying lieutenants,
identifying captains, that wecan send them to different
schools because what we play foris so important.
(13:52):
But we still do this in thecorporate.
I didn't even know I was beingworkplace sponsored.
I haven't done workplacesponsorship because I have the
resources, capabilities and alsoI can make the decision to do
this for you.
All you know is you got sent toa free conference.
No, I paid for it.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
But I've done that for people within my.
I used to be an executivedirector, so I've done that for
individuals within my.
I used to be an executivedirector, so I've done that for
individuals within myorganizations, and then I do I'm
an interim executive directorprobably never do it again.
It's so much work.
You know there's a fill in.
You know I'm like a substituteteacher or a nonprofit a million
(14:32):
dollar, nonprofit, two million,so, but anyway, that's
workplace sponsorship.
So how do you find a workplacesponsor?
First of all, again, they'reidentifying you, but you got to
get around them.
One of the best ways to find aworkplace sponsor is to
volunteer to do things withinthe organization volunteer to be
(14:54):
on this committee, volunteer tobe on this team, volunteer to
be on this team, volunteer tohelp out at this event.
How can I get in front of thoseindividuals that make the
decision that see that I'mhungry, see that I'm curious and
see that I want to grow within?
And then the other one is go toyour team lead or your
supervisors or those inmanagement and say I want to
(15:15):
grow.
This was my dream that in twoto three years I'll be the chief
development officer, I'll be adevelopment director, I'll be a
major gift officer or I'll havea team in the annual campaigns
of data management, whatever itmay be.
But I'm curious and I'm hungryand I just want to let you know
that know that Ever feel likeyou're stuck managing programs
(15:42):
in spreadsheets and scatteredsystems.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
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(16:06):
hub today.
From your experience, I'mcurious the thought process here
If somebody is because I thinkwe have both members in our
audience right we have theexecutive directors and the
leaders, the C-suite leaders, ifyou will and we have some folks
(16:27):
who are just starting out.
This is their first gig andthey are young and hungry, ready
to go.
Generally find, if somebody ismaybe the c-suite level, the
leader are, is it best for themwithin their workplace to
obviously do the sponsorship andthen mentor someone outside of
it, or can workplace sponsorshipand mentorship go hand in hand?
Speaker 2 (16:52):
workplace sponsorship , if done, best practices.
You don't know it?
Okay, it's number one numberone.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Oh interesting, okay, yeah, yeah, now with.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
C3 knows.
They're like how's Bob doing,how's Jane doing?
You know, and you go around alot of ones.
You'll go around and say well,how are your, your individuals
that you take an interest in onbehalf of the company, how are
they doing?
Okay, that's number one.
Number two is I am not.
(17:22):
This is a tough one.
I'm not a big fan of mentoringwithin the organization unless
the organization is very big,because there's too many
dynamics, whether it's like adirect report or even above a
direct report, because if you goabove the direct report,
they're like you're going to myboss to be mentor, or he's
(17:44):
mentoring or she's mentoring you.
Yeah, what I say, is itpossible?
Stay within the field if youwant.
This is one thing that's alsomisunderstood about mentoring.
Most of the time in mentoring,it's not about technical skills,
it's about supporting you onthe journey.
(18:05):
I'll introduce you to people, Iwill maybe send you some
information or help you identifywhich sessions to go to at ICON
, afp, icon, sure.
So I'm giving you informationand then I'm also, but one of
the big parts is supportingpeople emotionally.
The biggest difficulty I'vebeen teaching this webinar or
(18:29):
workshop for 10 years plus thebiggest difficulty I have found
is individuals of color or womentrying to find mentors.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Because most of the time, the individual that you're
looking to that have reachedthis level or expertise or
gravitas are men.
I don't mentor women, period.
I don't.
I'm a married man.
I just I've seen too much in mylife.
But it's hard for women.
They want someone.
And can I mentor with this guy?
(19:01):
Or I'm Asian American and I'mlooking for someone Asian
American.
So one of the things that,again, if you're looking to grow
and it's not all technical lookoutside your field.
You will go and you will meetpeople who are successful in
other areas.
What we're looking for is whatare the principles of success?
(19:22):
What are the principles ofinter-organization dynamics,
human dynamics, dynamics ofworking up, working down and
working sideways within anorganization, because I teach
all that when I work with myguys.
So those are the two mainthings I find white men mentor.
(19:44):
White men, I mean, I feel mostcomfortable with, or the ones
that are approaching them.
Okay, yes, but they have atendency to mentor or, even
worse, workplace sponsorindividuals.
Oh yeah, he golfs too.
He's 23.
(20:05):
And I golf.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
He reminds me of myself when I was younger.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Exactly, and you're hungry and plus, you might have
kids and you're the head of thefamily.
They may be old school in thatarea and so it makes it
difficult sometimes for them tolook outside.
That was one of the key reasonsI started Men of Color in
Development is so that black mencould see that there are black
(20:31):
men in the fundraising field whohave reached levels of
prominence, success and orcompetency.
So one of the things that I'vespent a bit of time is
identifying those gentlemen.
And then I asked hey, would youmentor young black men in this
field?
Yeah, nine out of 10.
(20:52):
Sure, who do you got?
I'm not saying you need to do29, but if you can do two or
three it would be so great.
And the young men when I sayyoung, anything up to mid
forties, they love it.
They didn't think that theycould find anybody in the field
actually that would be able tosupport them.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Well and it's interesting.
Unfortunately, a podcastaudience can't necessarily see
your face, but the face that youmade in response to somebody
asking, let's say, somebody intheir 50s, early 60s, would you
consider mentoring down a levelEven the face you made at
pretending to be asked lit upyour eyes in a really exciting
(21:37):
way, and I think so often wedon't realize the impact that we
can have right, we're so in thetrenches a lot of times that
until somebody says, hey, I'vegot this guy, this girl, would
you be interested in mentoringfor somebody to see that value
in you and say, would you bewilling to come alongside this
person?
(21:57):
It makes us realize our ownvalue in a way that I don't
think we get to do regularly inour career, and so I think
that's something that I wouldencourage a lot of folks about
is you do have something tooffer.
Everybody has something tooffer to the folks coming up
behind them.
I was struck by how excitedyour face got at the idea of
(22:18):
being able to give back when youwere just imitating somebody
who was being asked that.
It's cool to think about whatthat can do to somebody in their
own career and make them reallyembrace the wisdom and the
knowledge and the success thatthey have, when maybe they might
not see that in themselvesregularly.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
Let me give you another side of this.
Many of the men that I'vespoken to who are mentoring, it
gives them life.
Yeah, I would just like to sitdown with someone who's hungry
to be a great fundraiser, but,more importantly, I mentor the
(22:58):
whole person.
They're hungry to be a betterfather, they're hungry to be a
better husband or partner, andwhen you see that light in their
eyes, that remember.
The one of the most importantthings I do as a mentor is I do
this.
I see you, I acknowledge you.
(23:18):
I acknowledge you with yourfaults and, believe me, I dealt
with some faults.
I see you with your setbacksdealt with some faults.
I see you with your setbacks,your stubbing of the toe.
I see you in your pain rightnow.
I acknowledge that.
And there's something else Ialways do.
(23:39):
These are my suggestions,because there's one of two
things that's going to happen atevery group Every time I meet.
I meet for one hour with thesegentlemen every three months,
and the two things that aregoing to come out of that are,
very simply, this I will giveyou a suggestion, a suggested
path, and a lot of times we justneed to hear that this is
(24:01):
probably what I was thinking Ineed to do next anyway, but I
just need that validation.
And then the other one is I'mjust going to listen, I'm just
going to let you get this out.
You have a safe, trusting placeto get this out.
And here I am an older blackman that believes in you,
because again, and I don't wantto make this like a black thing,
(24:24):
but in our community black men,we've had some difficulties
being filed, sure, okay, andI'll just leave it at that.
I mean, I was locked up withthousands.
Okay, that we were not there,yeah, including me yeah, if
somebody is.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
I want to speak specifically to those executive
directors at the moment, becauseall of this sounds really great
, but a lot of it has to come,especially on the workplace
sponsorship idea.
A lot of that has to come fromthe top.
Culture is driven from the top.
So if we're talking to theexecutive director specifically,
what's the message to them?
How do we inspire the rest ofour C-suite to start thinking in
(25:05):
that regard?
How do we start to reallyourselves be putting the
framework on to understand?
Where can I look at workplacesponsorship?
Where can I really, how can Iinstill that in my team so that
it becomes a culture where we'reconstantly empowering the folks
coming up underneath?
Speaker 2 (25:23):
The first thing I would say is learn about
workplace sponsorship.
You can Google it.
It's not original.
With me, I can guarantee youthat.
So you learn about it and thenbe intentional to do it, because
you have team leads.
It depends on the size of yourorganization.
I've been in an organizationwith four people, but I'm
telling you, you have team leads, you have management, and the
(25:46):
thing that I would say is Iwould like for each of y'all to
read this about workplacesponsorship, and then I want you
to identify one or two peoplethat you think would be worthy
or would be good for us tosponsor, and then it is your
position or your charge to keeptabs on them, observe them,
(26:11):
question them, because whatwe're going to do is we will
allocate funding, I'll allocatetime as you sitting down with
that person, taking them tolunch, coffee, whatever it may
be, to talk to them.
How did the conference go?
What did you learn at theconference?
Oh, excellent.
Wow, we have this new teamwe're putting together that.
(26:31):
We're going to do X, y, z.
Would you be interested?
And if the person's hungry, theywould.
And then, if they're listeningto this and you get offered a
volunteer position or volunteeror offer to volunteer for
something that again could betaking away capacity of time,
(26:52):
potentially a little bit ofmoney, but I doubt that.
But time, do it?
Show that you're hungry to grow, and I love the word grow.
And the other thing is, I'm abig one on leadership, leading
by example, and so, yes, youhave team leads here, but you
(27:16):
can sponsor them, yeah,especially if they don't know
anything about it or even not do, because some people you learn
that you're being sponsored.
Some people will come up to yousay I'm sponsoring you or I'm
keeping an eye on you.
Because in the end though Ialways say this when I talk to
(27:38):
the individuals that havelooking to be workplace
sponsored I said you still gottashow results.
You still have to show results.
That's a little backroom.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
I love it.
Ken.
This has been so good.
If somebody wanted to learnmore or connect with you and
find out more about some of thiswork or the coaching and
consulting and mentoring thatyou do, how would they find you?
What's the best way to connect?
Speaker 2 (28:01):
LinkedIn.
Linkedin Miller 84.
Or you can call me.
I have one phone number.
I'm not afraid I've had thesame number for 15 years
907-250-8488.
And I pick up my phone.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
I love it.
So I have no problem.
Oh, I love it.
Excellent, as we wrap up.
I've been asking everybody kindof the same question as we wrap
up the season If you could giveone piece of advice to a
nonprofit leader, what?
Speaker 2 (28:33):
would that be in this moment To a nonprofit leader,
not a new individual coming intothe sector.
Nonprofit leader.
Seek outside counsel, Get amentor Just because you're the
CEO of XYZ.
I own businesses.
I own five businesses and Ihave mentors Alphonse Brown Jr
(28:56):
and a guy named Jim Posey andAlphonse is pretty well known in
the fundraising world,especially AFP, past chair of
the AFP Global Board ofDirectors.
So, anyway, that's what I sayto do, Even though I mentor how
many?
I've been doing this for 15years.
I have book clubs, all thatstuff.
I still mentor Because thereare times where this gets tough
(29:19):
being a business owner or beingeven in the fundraising field
and I can reach out to him andsay, hey, this is my truth.
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