June 13, 2025 • 29 mins
In this episode, Meghan talks with David Rhode, author of Passion Isn't Enough: A Practical Guide for Nonprofit Leaders, about the often overlooked realities of nonprofit leadership. David offers practical, hard-earned insights on everything from board engagement and leadership isolation to managing the everyday chaos of running a small organization. With real talk on setting expectations, evaluating (and even letting go of) board members, and simplifying roles, this conversation is a must-listen for nonprofit leaders juggling multiple hats. If you’ve ever felt overwhelmed, under-resourced, or unsure of how to move forward, this episode delivers the validation and actionable advice you need—because passion is just the beginning.
Get free nonprofit professional development resources, connections to cause work peers, and more at https://nonprofithub.org
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Drowning in spreadsheets and manual
processes.
Bonterra Apricot is the smarter, faster way for nonprofits to
manage programs, track outcomesand actually show your impact.
Find out how at BonterraTechcomslash Nonprofit Hub.
Welcome back to the NonprofitHub Radio Podcast.
I'm your host, megan Spear,joined today by David Rhoad, who
(00:23):
is the author of Passion Isn'tEnough, a practical guide for
nonprofit leaders.
I'm super excited to dig intothis.
For those of you who have beenaround Nonprofit Hub for a while
, you know that we talk aboutand I talk about all the time
how we have so many leaders andso many founders who are
passionate about the thing butmight not have had the
(00:45):
fundraising training or thebusiness acumen or they haven't
had any sort of HR training likeall of the pieces.
That can be a challenge forleaders, and so I'm so excited
to dig into this conversationwith David today around exactly
that.
It's like the book about whyNonprofit Hub exists, so I'm
really excited.
I think this is going to be agreat conversation.
(01:05):
David, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Megan, thanks so much and yeah, this is a match made
in podcast heaven, so let's gofor it.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
I love it.
So give us a littleintroduction and background to
yourself, David.
How did you get to the point ofwriting Passion Isn't Enough?
What kind of fueled thatjourney for you?
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Yeah, I'm a former nonprofit founder.
I founded an organizationcalled Pitching for Baseball and
Softball in 2005, led thatorganization for around 15 years
and during that time I spent alot of time being applauded for
my passion.
I also met a lot of otherleaders along the way and
realized that they neededassistance and advice, and then
(01:43):
so once I left the organizationin 2019, I focused a little bit
more on the consulting side andspecifically CEO mentoring and
coaching, which is where I spenda lot of my time.
And you know, the book reallysort of encapsulates a lot of
the experience that I had intalking to leaders and the fact
that they were running into thesame kinds of challenges,
regardless of geography and partof the sector and even, to a
(02:07):
certain degree, budget size, andso the book is really meant to
sort of break down the job andgive them some practical tools
to navigate more confidently andmore successfully.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
I love it.
That's so good.
So I want to start theconversation.
Set the stage who is passionisn't enough for.
Is it executive director?
Is it any leader?
Who's the target there?
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Yeah, I really pictured a few of the folks that
I have mentored along the way.
I had them sitting on myshoulder to a certain degree as
I wrote the book, so I waspicturing leaders of
organizations.
92% of the nonprofits in theUnited States have budgets of a
million dollars or less, and sothey're small shops with a
handful of folks and the leaderis wearing the expression all
(02:57):
the hats, and so it was reallyfor those individuals primarily.
But what I've realized thebook's been out a little over
six months and what I realizedis that board members are really
benefiting from reading thebook.
Several organizations havegotten it for their full board
as kind of a board educationtool, and so that's been really
effective as well.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
I love it.
As soon as you were talking, Iwas picturing all of our podcast
listeners where we're talkingabout nonprofits that are under
a million dollars, where they'rewearing 17 different hats.
I can just picture all of themlistening to this on their
commute or on a walk or at thegym and being like, yeah, me, hi
, raising my hand over hereBecause, yeah, that is the
majority of who we serve atNonprofit Hub, so really excited
(03:40):
to dig into this.
If you had to say, maybe,what's the?
What is the one thing that yousee these leaders struggle with
the most?
Because I think there's atendency, especially in
nonprofit, to assume that youare the only one facing this
particular struggle, because wetend to work in kind of isolated
(04:01):
spaces.
Right, this is my nonprofit andthis is what I'm doing.
It's hard sometimes to realizethat other people are having
these same struggles and it canfeel super isolating.
So what would you say is likethe one thing that you see
everybody struggle with?
What's the one piece there?
Because I feel like, even if wedon't have a solution for it,
(04:22):
sometimes it's just nice to knowthat other people are also
struggling with the same thing.
There's a little bit of benefitin that solidarity.
What does that look like fromyour perspective?
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Yeah, the struggle bus that's the most crowded is
the one involving lack of boardengagement or underperforming
boards, and you can define it anumber of different ways, but
that's the most commonconversation I find myself in
with leaders, and so I talk alot in the book about the
mistakes I made as a leader andthe mistakes many of us make
(04:54):
when we start organizations iswe tend to fall in the friends
and family trap with our firstboard and people are.
They feel your passion, theyfeel your excitement, they want
to support you and they saythese dreadful words of I'd be
happy to join your board.
And then we're so flattered wesay yes, and then we've done all
these things before.
We've really explained what thejob and the responsibilities
(05:16):
are and what the expectationsare.
So what I focus on in the bookis outlining those expectations
and a process where you'revetting people around what their
time commitment is going to beand what financial commitment is
going to look like for yourorganization, and obviously that
can take many shapes and forms,but as long as you are creating
(05:37):
a very clear understanding andlots of visibility into what the
job will be, then thelikelihood that the person
joining the organization will besuccessful and you will have
the kind of board you werehoping for increases.
And then there's also a lot ofconversation around how to make
your board meetings moreeffective, because a lot of
times we do all the reportingout and this is going on and
(05:58):
this is going on.
Everybody is either outwardlyor inwardly applauding you for
all this stuff, but it's not alot of conversation.
There's not a lot of boardparticipation, and so really
trying to help the boardunderstand when you want them to
participate and telling them inadvance we're going to be
covering this in a board meetingand I'm going to go around the
table and ask for everybody'sopinion and then you do it so
(06:19):
that everybody gets in thepractice of sharing their
thoughts in board meetings andcreating that more of a dialogue
that you want and need andexpect from board members.
So that's the area where Ithink people have a lot of
commonality and I do thinkyou've tapped into something
really critical, megan, which isit is, as described to me a
lonely job and, for some obviousreasons, you can't whine and
(06:40):
complain about certainchallenges to the people that
work for you, because that's notappropriate.
You can't always go to yourboard in some way shapes or
forms, because in many waysthey're your boss and there's
some vulnerability around thatand there's just not a lot of
people that understand thechallenges that you're facing.
So I think it's really critical, and one of the things I
highlight in the final chapterof the book is called Advice for
(07:03):
New Leaders.
And one of the things Ihighlight in the final chapter
of the book is called Advice forNew Leaders, and one of the
things is to sort of begin toform your own cohort, even if
it's two or three people thatyou can go have a coffee with or
a drink with after work, orvirtual this or virtual that,
where you can just, on a monthlybasis, talk to people and just
talk it through.
And you'll find that I thinkthere's real benefit in having
that kind of a network.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Yeah, I wholeheartedly agree.
I even love we do a webinarseries on Wednesdays here at
Nonprofit Hub, and I love whenpeople first jump on because we
ask them to share who they are,what organization they're with
and where they're chatting from.
And inevitably every time youwill see people connect around
oh, I also run development for alibrary, or oh, I'm also in
(07:47):
Lincoln, nebraska or wherever,and all of a sudden these little
pockets of connections start tohappen just in the chat thread
of the webinar.
Because we're craving it asleaders, we need that person or
those people that we connectwith, who understand what we're
doing, because it is a verydifferent ballgame than somebody
even just even just say, anexecutive director of a
(08:07):
nonprofit versus a CEO of a of afor profit company.
Right, in theory they are verysimilar jobs, in reality Very,
very different, right, and thestruggles can.
There's, I'm sure, some overlap, but man, just having somebody
who gets it is so important.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
That's right.
That's right.
I mean, we feel like we havethe weight of the world on our
shoulders, that we've got tocome up with all of the answers,
that we have to be perfect allthe time, and the reality is
we're not going to be thatperson and the sooner, the
sooner that you come to gripswith it for yourself and take
that kind of pressure offyourself and you share it out
with your team.
Listen, I don't have all theanswers.
(08:49):
I will help find the answers,but I'm not always going to have
the answers and it's a littlebit like the X-Files, like the
like.
The answer is out there, orsomething like that.
I don't remember what thetagline was for the show but the
answer's out there and in thisday and age it's not that
difficult to find it.
But feeling like you literallyhave to have the answer for
everything is an unrealisticidea.
(09:11):
We're not a special wizard,we're not a magic eight ball.
We are a person and we're goingto do our very best.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
Well, but that requires some vulnerability too,
and that can be really hard.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Right, and I do think one way to build trust and
understanding within yourorganization is to kind of begin
to have those conversationswith people where you allow them
to be vulnerable with you andyou allow yourself to be
vulnerable with them.
If that's part of the culturethat I would hope that
organizations are trying tocreate, especially in small
(09:45):
shops, where people have to bewilling to say I am absolutely
willing to take that on.
I'm not 100% sure how to do it,but I'll figure it out.
Give me a little time orwhatever, but just knowing that
we're all going to be a littleout of our comfort zone from
time to time and that's how wegrow and, you know, that's how
(10:06):
we really make the biggestadvances personally and
professionally.
Like writing a book, but whenyou do things that are new for
the first time, you don't knowwhat you don't know and some
things come easily, some thingsare hard, and making sure that
we as leaders are asking theright kind of questions Do you
need any help?
Have you been able to do thisor do you need support with that
In ways that people can havemultiple opportunities, not the
(10:28):
one time, like do you have anyquestions?
No, great, and move on.
No, it should be the regularthing, like how's this project
going?
Where are you running intotrouble?
Is there ways that I can help?
Please let me know.
And that's what we can helpconnect them to things, because
we might have resources thatthey're not aware of, and that's
(10:53):
great if we can work in thatway for our folks.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
I love it.
So I want to circle back tosomething that you said a little
bit ago.
If someone's listening and theyare finding themselves going
that was me.
My whole board is all peoplethat I'm either related to or
went to college with, or my bestfriend from elementary school,
whatever it is, and I have nowlearned that that is not
(11:16):
effective and they're not reallyhelping me move forward.
If they're in that position,what do they do next?
Help me?
Help them?
Right.
If somebody It'd be great to,in an ideal world, we could
maybe start with your book andthen start our nonprofit so that
we start on the best footforward.
But if that has not been thecase and we're starting from a
(11:39):
point of, this is a mistake Imade and I need to course
correct what are the steps thatsomeone would take in that boat?
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Yeah, well, you know I've I fired a fair number of
board members in my, in mycareer.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
I want you to say that sentence again, because I
think that that in and of itselfis a thing we don't realize we
can do.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Yeah, firing, board members.
Yes, they're volunteers and, yes, we have a different level of
expectation around volunteersversus staff.
But one of the things thathelped me the most and I didn't
get there right away wascreating more accountability
amongst the board, evaluatingthe board on an annual basis and
(12:22):
, like I said, that wasn't board1.0 and that wasn't board 2.0,
that was probably board 3.0.
But when you get to the pointof saying these are the things
that we are gonna expect fromall the board members and you
need to fall hard on the sword.
At first I should have done abetter job of outlining what was
involved and as I've gottenbetter in my role as a nonprofit
(12:43):
leader, I now know what boardsneed to be doing a better job of
.
And in some areas we're doinggreat.
We're great here, here and here.
Here's where we're not so greatand here's where we're
definitely not so great.
So we need to take our game uptogether and if it feels like
the rules of the game havechanged and you don't want to
play the game anymore, that'sokay.
That's okay, you're not lettingme down, but this is what the
(13:08):
organization is going to need.
And you need to give thempermission to leave and say we
will find people who are capableand comfortable doing those
things.
I should have told you thatthis was part of the
responsibility and that's on me.
Now that it is part of theresponsibility, you have the
opportunity and we'll talk aboutthis one-on-one whether this is
still something you'recomfortable with and so having
(13:29):
those kinds of openconversations and then at the
end of each year, tracking Didthey come to X number of board
meetings?
Did they come and volunteer atwhatever?
Did they nominate people forthe board spot?
Did they make a personal gift?
Did they introduce you to otherpeople that helped bring in
other resources?
Whatever the things are thatare normal things that you
(13:50):
should be tracking.
You should be tracking for yourboard and having one-on-one
conversations, not waving themin front of everybody, saying
Fred is really just a mess upand Susie I don't know where her
head is, and no, no, no, no.
This is done on a one-on-onebasis.
And saying listen, here's wherethe answers are.
How do you feel about this?
And the answer is they're goingto say the following because
(14:13):
I've had this conversation,they're embarrassed and they're
going to feel like they let theorganization down.
And then you say things likefirst of all, let's stop right
there.
You've done so much for theorganization and you thank them
for all the contributions theyhave made, and you tell them
things like we wouldn't havemade it to this point without
folks like you and, specifically, these kinds of things that
you've done.
That being said, I know thatyou're not satisfied with this,
(14:35):
and so we have two options here.
You can either a say thingshave changed on my end, I don't
have the kind of time I used tohave, or I don't have the kind
of skills that you're lookingfor, and I think you might be
better served to find somebodyelse.
Perfectly reasonable option.
Or B is I want to stay and Iwant to get back on track, and
then my answer would be to thatis amazing.
(14:56):
Let me figure out how I canhelp you do that.
And so they either opt out oropt back in.
What's not acceptable is C,which is more of the same.
They can't just continue on inthe way that they were
performing, so they can eitherexit door number one or they can
get back in the game with morehelp and with more focus.
(15:17):
So you know, what tended tohappen is if you looked at your
board as like an NBA roster,let's say you have a dozen
people I was looking to sort ofget rid of unintentionally, but
the result would be churn outthe bottom one or two people
each year and come the NBA draftlooking for a couple of lottery
picks who could I get?
(15:37):
That's going to really get mystarting lineup and really take
me to the next level, and soit's almost an opportunity for
the organization to refreshitself and to elevate itself,
but it should happen through aprofessional and thoughtful
evaluation process.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
Ever feel like you're stuck managing programs in
spreadsheets and scatteredsystems?
Apricot by Bonterra is asmarter, faster way for
nonprofits to track outcomes,simplify reporting and unlock
more funding.
With tools built for realnonprofit workflows and trusted
by over 3,400 organizations, ithelps your team grow your impact
(16:20):
and better serve your community.
You can meet us atBonterratechcom slash non-profit
hub today.
I was just reading a study theother day about kind of the
younger millennials, older Gen Zfolks who are super passionate
(16:43):
about making the world better.
Right, they are certainlybalancing their time a lot
better than I did early on in mycareer, and they are we're
seeing a rise in them joiningboards, which was actually
really interesting to me,because I think we tend to think
, okay, this is like the room ofold white men, right, it's the
(17:03):
stereotypical board.
So it's exciting to think aboutthe fact that we're starting to
see younger folks come on, Ifsomeone is jumping onto a board
for the first time, talk to thatperson.
What should their mindset be?
What's the most important thingfor them to bring to the table?
Maybe to, because they're goingto have a passion point for the
(17:23):
organization too, or theywouldn't be joining the board,
Right?
So what does it look like forthem?
And what if we had somebodywho's newer to the board space?
What would your advice be tothat person?
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Well, the advice I mean it's a great question.
I probably have six answers.
So one of the answers is one ofthe answers is don't sit back.
Don't assume that everybodyelse has it under control and
you need to, just because you'rethe newbie, like sit quietly
over there and just bide yourtime.
Now I think the best kind ofboard is an engaged, involved
(17:56):
board, asking questions.
So the advice that I would giveto people first is don't be
afraid to ask questions, becauseif it's on your mind, it's on
somebody else's mind.
That whole thought processthat's real.
The second thing is and I thinkthere are realities to
generational diversity that arechallenging Younger people are
(18:19):
more accepting of andcomfortable with technology,
generally speaking, and youngerpeople generally don't have the
same financial means andfinancial networks as people
that are further along in theircareers, generally speaking.
And so if we have a boarddynamic where we have a range of
ages represented, I think we dohave to be careful about the
(18:42):
traditional give-get structure,because if we're saying all the
board members are responsiblefor bringing in 10 grand, that's
going to feel like a mountainfor some people and that may
feel much more achievable byother people, and we need to be
mindful of that, and so one ofthe ways organizations are
handling that is really thisnotion of and we highlight it in
(19:04):
the book a little bit too ismaking sure that if you have a
threshold, maybe the thresholdis something along the lines of
personally meaningful gift tothe organization as compared to
a specific number, and that Idimensionalize that to my board
as one of your top threephilanthropic gifts each year.
So if that could be $100 for ayoung person, that could be $500
(19:25):
, be whatever, but the point isit may look and feel very
different.
The last thing I would saybecause this is a great question
is, as a younger professionalperson, you may have skills and
perspectives that theorganization needs.
The organization may notunderstand, let's say, how it's
going to embrace and approach AI, or how successful it is with
(19:47):
social media and things that youcan maybe be more of a resource
for than other folks that havebeen more experienced and around
the organization longer.
So don't minimize your abilityto make an immediate
contribution.
But again, ultimately I wouldlead with questions,
nonjudgmental questions, like dowe need more help around social
(20:10):
media?
Do we feel like we've got thatunder control, or is that an
area where you think that Icould be of some help, and so
being willing to and able toraise your hand is so valuable
and really models a greatbehavior for other board members
.
To raise your hand is sovaluable and really models a
great behavior for other boardmembers.
So come in, come in withintention and come in with an
(20:30):
expectation that you're going tomake a difference.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
I love it.
So I'm curious, as one whowrote a book myself what is your
favorite part of the book?
Because I feel like everybodyhas that one, whether it's a
chapter or a section, everybodyhas that one where like this
this is my go-to point.
Let me tell you about thiswhat's yours?
Speaker 2 (20:52):
That's so nice that you asked that and I have not
been asked that question before.
I loved generally the fact thatI was able to reconnect with so
many people in the nonprofitsector, so I interviewed 22
different subject matter expertsand CEOs when I wrote the book
and their wisdom is embeddedthroughout the book.
So, generally speaking, that'sthe part of writing the book
(21:14):
that I enjoy the most isreconnecting with those
individuals.
The chapter that I like themost is really there's really
two chapters.
I mean I like them all, butit's like your children.
You love all your children, butdo you love them all equally?
Come on, let's be honest.
It depends on which day of theweek we're talking about here.
So I love the chapter onpartnership development.
(21:35):
I think that that's just soexciting.
There's a lot in there from agood colleague, joe Waters, and
Joe is just a dynamo onpartnership development.
He really goes deep on a lot ofstuff and if you can just
imagine his deep Boston accent,as you have him speaking in the
book, it's even better.
So there's that, and then thechapter on crisis communication.
(21:55):
Liz Wanger was so helpful intalking about protocols and ways
to approach crisiscommunication and, especially
for the moment that we're in asa sector, I think there's so
much that we can take from that.
So those are chapters that I inthe crisis communication, I
felt like I learned a tremendousamount.
And the partnership developmentI just enjoyed collaborating
(22:17):
with Joe on that.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
That's awesome.
So what I'm hearing and I willbe vulnerable and honest to say
that I have not read this bookso, yes, yet I have not read it
yet but what I'm here, so we'vegot board, we've got crisis
comms, we've got partnership.
We're hitting we really arehitting all of the things in
this one.
What are the other topics thatare included here?
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Yeah.
So it starts out with buildingyour strategic plan.
That's chapter one, that's theroadmap.
Chapter two is building yourboard.
Chapter three is building yourfundraising strategy.
Then we go into building yourpartnership portfolio, building
your financial controls,building your team, building
your measurement and evaluationcapabilities, building your
brand, building yourcommunication strategy, building
a diverse team, you know,building your AI competency I'm
(23:06):
going to forget somethingbuilding your program, building
your volunteer base.
So there's 15 chapters thatcover many of the things I just
said.
And then there's the 16thchapter, which is this advice
for new leaders.
So it's been exceptionallywell-received.
I'm so delighted that whenpeople read the book, they tell
me things like I have toapologize because I wrote in the
margins so much and Iunderlined and I did it like no,
(23:28):
no, no, that's what the bookwas intended for.
That's good news, so like.
I said, the people are usingthe book in the way it was
intended and really findingvalue in various things, because
it's not a book, that thisisn't fiction.
You don't need to begin inchapter page one and read to the
end.
You can get the book and sayI'm really struggling, I'm about
to hire somebody.
Okay, read the chapter.
(23:50):
I'm building your team Go rightthere.
And then you can kind of gothrough wherever you feel like
you have the most need at thatmoment in time.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
That's great.
So it really is kind of thehow-to guide for all of the
pieces of a holistic nonprofitstrategy.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
I don't want to pretend that it's the answer,
but it is intended to cover alot of the bases that you're
going to face throughout yourjourney as a leader.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
Yes, I love it and especially understanding that I
know we see a lot of, we see alot of changeover in nonprofit
staffing over the summer right,because so many nonprofits have
that July 1 to June 30 fiscal.
So we see a lot of promotions,a lot of new hires coming in
with those July 1 contracts.
So, man, this is an ideal timefor someone who might be new to
(24:38):
a role, new to an organization,to really make sure that they're
getting everything on trackquickly.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
Yeah, I mean many of us haven't hired that many
people, or hired people or knowhow to write a great job
description, and I just saw aLinkedIn post yesterday about
job description, had 33 bulletpoints or something like
involved with it, and it's likelisten, if you're going to hire
somebody, I'm going to just saythis for humanity, not just for
(25:05):
your purposes, megan, but foranyone For the world at large.
For the world at large.
Please just put three bulletpoints in.
This is the main parts of thejob.
Everyone knows that jobs aremore than that.
When you're going to evaluatethis person at the end of 6, 9,
12, 18, 24 months, what are thethings that you're going to
evaluate them based on, thenhire them based on those things
(25:28):
and like, don't list the 43other things that they might
have to do.
Yeah, there's other things, asrequired or whatever the
catchphrase is.
But come on, let's make itsimple.
This is really what we need theperson to do.
We're a small team, soeverybody is kind of going to
take on more than just what's intheir job description.
But, like, at least three ofthe five days of the week, this
(25:48):
is the kind of stuff you'regoing to be doing.
And then let's, let's focus onthose things and let's talk
about those things.
And let's, let's talk aboutthose things and let's let's not
make it like some somethingwe're creating in a lab that
somehow some, some person isgoing to be creating that some
like perfect person.
I'm sorry.
If they're perfect, they're notcoming to your organization for
(26:09):
the amount of money that you'regoing to pay.
Then right, so you're going tohave a more junior person
potentially, and, and you'regoing to have to train them up
and you're going to do a lot ofthings, but at least tell them
this is what the job is.
So there, please, world, makeit clear, make it simpler.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Amen, absolutely.
I will ask this question, ifyou can think of one, because we
all have the end other dutiesas required, right, as in all
job descriptions, contracts etcetera.
What's the craziest thingyou've ever had to do?
And other duties as required?
I'll give you a minute to thinkof it because I will tell you
mine.
I one time was required, notrequired, but we were hosting an
(26:49):
event and again it was anon-profit.
You're on a small budget and soall of a sudden I found myself
having to make 10 dozen littleegg muffins to go on, like to go
on egg sandwiches for a seniorsendoff breakfast, which
normally not part of the jobdescription of the communication
(27:09):
director.
But here we are.
Sometimes you just got to make120 egg muffins.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
And sometimes you got to clean the toilets.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
So I would just say like when you, when you are that
person, you have your boardshowing up and and you're going
to and they're coming.
For we were baseball andsoftball charity.
We provided equipment to kidsand communities in need, and so
we had our board come in once ayear to help us with our annual
inventory count and it was agreat way for them to kind of
bond together and for them tounderstand and touch the
(27:39):
organization.
But when they're coming in, youlook around like huh, we need
to spruce this up a little bit,like you're the one grabbing the
Johnny brush, you're the onedoing the things, so there's
nothing too big or too small.
You're making the muffins,you're doing the things.
Yeah, because why wouldn't you?
You want it to be a certain way, then lead by example.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Absolutely so.
As we close out, david, thequestion I've been asking
everyone this season is if youcould give one piece of advice
to the nonprofit leader.
Maybe it's from your book,maybe it's just something you've
been thinking about lately.
What is that one takeaway inthis season?
Because we recognize it is astruggle season for a lot of
(28:21):
folks in this current climate.
So what's the one takeaway foryou?
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Yeah, I think, especially given this moment in
time, what I would tell peopleis to not hide from their
community and to communicatemore.
I would tell them I would notmake this a desperation of we
need your help now and we'reit's such an urgent moment.
I would just focus on theimpact you are having.
I would focus on this is who weare.
This is how we make adifference in our community, and
(28:46):
I would just stand up proudlyand just tell that story and say
we are going to work throughthe challenges that are existing
right now with it with apositive expectation, and but
while we're doing that, let'snot forget all of the amazing
work that's happening and justtalk so proudly about the work
you're doing and people.
They want to support a winningteam, and I think you should
(29:08):
present yourself as a winningteam in a positive way.
So, yes, there are realstruggles, but I think our
communication should focus onimpact and we should focus on
communicating more frequently,not less, in times of challenge.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
I love it, so I am generally assuming that everyone
who's listening.
Drowning in spreadsheets and manual
processes.
Bonterra Apricot is the smarter, faster way for nonprofits to
manage programs, track outcomesand actually show your impact.
Find out how at BonterraTechcomslash Nonprofit Hub.
Welcome back to the NonprofitHub Radio Podcast.
I'm your host, megan Spear,joined today by David Rhoad, who
(00:23):
is the author of Passion Isn'tEnough, a practical guide for
nonprofit leaders.
I'm super excited to dig intothis.
For those of you who have beenaround Nonprofit Hub for a while
, you know that we talk aboutand I talk about all the time
how we have so many leaders andso many founders who are
passionate about the thing butmight not have had the
(00:45):
fundraising training or thebusiness acumen or they haven't
had any sort of HR training likeall of the pieces.
That can be a challenge forleaders, and so I'm so excited
to dig into this conversationwith David today around exactly
that.
It's like the book about whyNonprofit Hub exists, so I'm
really excited.
I think this is going to be agreat conversation.
(01:05):
David, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Megan, thanks so much and yeah, this is a match made
in podcast heaven, so let's gofor it.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
I love it.
So give us a littleintroduction and background to
yourself, David.
How did you get to the point ofwriting Passion Isn't Enough?
What kind of fueled thatjourney for you?
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Yeah, I'm a former nonprofit founder.
I founded an organizationcalled Pitching for Baseball and
Softball in 2005, led thatorganization for around 15 years
and during that time I spent alot of time being applauded for
my passion.
I also met a lot of otherleaders along the way and
realized that they neededassistance and advice, and then
(01:43):
so once I left the organizationin 2019, I focused a little bit
more on the consulting side andspecifically CEO mentoring and
coaching, which is where I spenda lot of my time.
And you know, the book reallysort of encapsulates a lot of
the experience that I had intalking to leaders and the fact
that they were running into thesame kinds of challenges,
regardless of geography and partof the sector and even, to a
(02:07):
certain degree, budget size, andso the book is really meant to
sort of break down the job andgive them some practical tools
to navigate more confidently andmore successfully.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
I love it.
That's so good.
So I want to start theconversation.
Set the stage who is passionisn't enough for.
Is it executive director?
Is it any leader?
Who's the target there?
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Yeah, I really pictured a few of the folks that
I have mentored along the way.
I had them sitting on myshoulder to a certain degree as
I wrote the book, so I waspicturing leaders of
organizations.
92% of the nonprofits in theUnited States have budgets of a
million dollars or less, and sothey're small shops with a
handful of folks and the leaderis wearing the expression all
(02:57):
the hats, and so it was reallyfor those individuals primarily.
But what I've realized thebook's been out a little over
six months and what I realizedis that board members are really
benefiting from reading thebook.
Several organizations havegotten it for their full board
as kind of a board educationtool, and so that's been really
effective as well.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
I love it.
As soon as you were talking, Iwas picturing all of our podcast
listeners where we're talkingabout nonprofits that are under
a million dollars, where they'rewearing 17 different hats.
I can just picture all of themlistening to this on their
commute or on a walk or at thegym and being like, yeah, me, hi
, raising my hand over hereBecause, yeah, that is the
majority of who we serve atNonprofit Hub, so really excited
(03:40):
to dig into this.
If you had to say, maybe,what's the?
What is the one thing that yousee these leaders struggle with
the most?
Because I think there's atendency, especially in
nonprofit, to assume that youare the only one facing this
particular struggle, because wetend to work in kind of isolated
(04:01):
spaces.
Right, this is my nonprofit andthis is what I'm doing.
It's hard sometimes to realizethat other people are having
these same struggles and it canfeel super isolating.
So what would you say is likethe one thing that you see
everybody struggle with?
What's the one piece there?
Because I feel like, even if wedon't have a solution for it,
(04:22):
sometimes it's just nice to knowthat other people are also
struggling with the same thing.
There's a little bit of benefitin that solidarity.
What does that look like fromyour perspective?
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Yeah, the struggle bus that's the most crowded is
the one involving lack of boardengagement or underperforming
boards, and you can define it anumber of different ways, but
that's the most commonconversation I find myself in
with leaders, and so I talk alot in the book about the
mistakes I made as a leader andthe mistakes many of us make
(04:54):
when we start organizations iswe tend to fall in the friends
and family trap with our firstboard and people are.
They feel your passion, theyfeel your excitement, they want
to support you and they saythese dreadful words of I'd be
happy to join your board.
And then we're so flattered wesay yes, and then we've done all
these things before.
We've really explained what thejob and the responsibilities
(05:16):
are and what the expectationsare.
So what I focus on in the bookis outlining those expectations
and a process where you'revetting people around what their
time commitment is going to beand what financial commitment is
going to look like for yourorganization, and obviously that
can take many shapes and forms,but as long as you are creating
(05:37):
a very clear understanding andlots of visibility into what the
job will be, then thelikelihood that the person
joining the organization will besuccessful and you will have
the kind of board you werehoping for increases.
And then there's also a lot ofconversation around how to make
your board meetings moreeffective, because a lot of
times we do all the reportingout and this is going on and
(05:58):
this is going on.
Everybody is either outwardlyor inwardly applauding you for
all this stuff, but it's not alot of conversation.
There's not a lot of boardparticipation, and so really
trying to help the boardunderstand when you want them to
participate and telling them inadvance we're going to be
covering this in a board meetingand I'm going to go around the
table and ask for everybody'sopinion and then you do it so
(06:19):
that everybody gets in thepractice of sharing their
thoughts in board meetings andcreating that more of a dialogue
that you want and need andexpect from board members.
So that's the area where Ithink people have a lot of
commonality and I do thinkyou've tapped into something
really critical, megan, which isit is, as described to me a
lonely job and, for some obviousreasons, you can't whine and
(06:40):
complain about certainchallenges to the people that
work for you, because that's notappropriate.
You can't always go to yourboard in some way shapes or
forms, because in many waysthey're your boss and there's
some vulnerability around thatand there's just not a lot of
people that understand thechallenges that you're facing.
So I think it's really critical, and one of the things I
highlight in the final chapterof the book is called Advice for
(07:03):
New Leaders.
And one of the things Ihighlight in the final chapter
of the book is called Advice forNew Leaders, and one of the
things is to sort of begin toform your own cohort, even if
it's two or three people thatyou can go have a coffee with or
a drink with after work, orvirtual this or virtual that,
where you can just, on a monthlybasis, talk to people and just
talk it through.
And you'll find that I thinkthere's real benefit in having
that kind of a network.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Yeah, I wholeheartedly agree.
I even love we do a webinarseries on Wednesdays here at
Nonprofit Hub, and I love whenpeople first jump on because we
ask them to share who they are,what organization they're with
and where they're chatting from.
And inevitably every time youwill see people connect around
oh, I also run development for alibrary, or oh, I'm also in
(07:47):
Lincoln, nebraska or wherever,and all of a sudden these little
pockets of connections start tohappen just in the chat thread
of the webinar.
Because we're craving it asleaders, we need that person or
those people that we connectwith, who understand what we're
doing, because it is a verydifferent ballgame than somebody
even just even just say, anexecutive director of a
(08:07):
nonprofit versus a CEO of a of afor profit company.
Right, in theory they are verysimilar jobs, in reality Very,
very different, right, and thestruggles can.
There's, I'm sure, some overlap, but man, just having somebody
who gets it is so important.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
That's right.
That's right.
I mean, we feel like we havethe weight of the world on our
shoulders, that we've got tocome up with all of the answers,
that we have to be perfect allthe time, and the reality is
we're not going to be thatperson and the sooner, the
sooner that you come to gripswith it for yourself and take
that kind of pressure offyourself and you share it out
with your team.
Listen, I don't have all theanswers.
(08:49):
I will help find the answers,but I'm not always going to have
the answers and it's a littlebit like the X-Files, like the
like.
The answer is out there, orsomething like that.
I don't remember what thetagline was for the show but the
answer's out there and in thisday and age it's not that
difficult to find it.
But feeling like you literallyhave to have the answer for
everything is an unrealisticidea.
(09:11):
We're not a special wizard,we're not a magic eight ball.
We are a person and we're goingto do our very best.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
Well, but that requires some vulnerability too,
and that can be really hard.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Right, and I do think one way to build trust and
understanding within yourorganization is to kind of begin
to have those conversationswith people where you allow them
to be vulnerable with you andyou allow yourself to be
vulnerable with them.
If that's part of the culturethat I would hope that
organizations are trying tocreate, especially in small
(09:45):
shops, where people have to bewilling to say I am absolutely
willing to take that on.
I'm not 100% sure how to do it,but I'll figure it out.
Give me a little time orwhatever, but just knowing that
we're all going to be a littleout of our comfort zone from
time to time and that's how wegrow and, you know, that's how
(10:06):
we really make the biggestadvances personally and
professionally.
Like writing a book, but whenyou do things that are new for
the first time, you don't knowwhat you don't know and some
things come easily, some thingsare hard, and making sure that
we as leaders are asking theright kind of questions Do you
need any help?
Have you been able to do thisor do you need support with that
In ways that people can havemultiple opportunities, not the
(10:28):
one time, like do you have anyquestions?
No, great, and move on.
No, it should be the regularthing, like how's this project
going?
Where are you running intotrouble?
Is there ways that I can help?
Please let me know.
And that's what we can helpconnect them to things, because
we might have resources thatthey're not aware of, and that's
(10:53):
great if we can work in thatway for our folks.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
I love it.
So I want to circle back tosomething that you said a little
bit ago.
If someone's listening and theyare finding themselves going
that was me.
My whole board is all peoplethat I'm either related to or
went to college with, or my bestfriend from elementary school,
whatever it is, and I have nowlearned that that is not
(11:16):
effective and they're not reallyhelping me move forward.
If they're in that position,what do they do next?
Help me?
Help them?
Right.
If somebody It'd be great to,in an ideal world, we could
maybe start with your book andthen start our nonprofit so that
we start on the best footforward.
But if that has not been thecase and we're starting from a
(11:39):
point of, this is a mistake Imade and I need to course
correct what are the steps thatsomeone would take in that boat?
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Yeah, well, you know I've I fired a fair number of
board members in my, in mycareer.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
I want you to say that sentence again, because I
think that that in and of itselfis a thing we don't realize we
can do.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Yeah, firing, board members.
Yes, they're volunteers and, yes, we have a different level of
expectation around volunteersversus staff.
But one of the things thathelped me the most and I didn't
get there right away wascreating more accountability
amongst the board, evaluatingthe board on an annual basis and
(12:22):
, like I said, that wasn't board1.0 and that wasn't board 2.0,
that was probably board 3.0.
But when you get to the pointof saying these are the things
that we are gonna expect fromall the board members and you
need to fall hard on the sword.
At first I should have done abetter job of outlining what was
involved and as I've gottenbetter in my role as a nonprofit
(12:43):
leader, I now know what boardsneed to be doing a better job of
.
And in some areas we're doinggreat.
We're great here, here and here.
Here's where we're not so greatand here's where we're
definitely not so great.
So we need to take our game uptogether and if it feels like
the rules of the game havechanged and you don't want to
play the game anymore, that'sokay.
That's okay, you're not lettingme down, but this is what the
(13:08):
organization is going to need.
And you need to give thempermission to leave and say we
will find people who are capableand comfortable doing those
things.
I should have told you thatthis was part of the
responsibility and that's on me.
Now that it is part of theresponsibility, you have the
opportunity and we'll talk aboutthis one-on-one whether this is
still something you'recomfortable with and so having
(13:29):
those kinds of openconversations and then at the
end of each year, tracking Didthey come to X number of board
meetings?
Did they come and volunteer atwhatever?
Did they nominate people forthe board spot?
Did they make a personal gift?
Did they introduce you to otherpeople that helped bring in
other resources?
Whatever the things are thatare normal things that you
(13:50):
should be tracking.
You should be tracking for yourboard and having one-on-one
conversations, not waving themin front of everybody, saying
Fred is really just a mess upand Susie I don't know where her
head is, and no, no, no, no.
This is done on a one-on-onebasis.
And saying listen, here's wherethe answers are.
How do you feel about this?
And the answer is they're goingto say the following because
(14:13):
I've had this conversation,they're embarrassed and they're
going to feel like they let theorganization down.
And then you say things likefirst of all, let's stop right
there.
You've done so much for theorganization and you thank them
for all the contributions theyhave made, and you tell them
things like we wouldn't havemade it to this point without
folks like you and, specifically, these kinds of things that
you've done.
That being said, I know thatyou're not satisfied with this,
(14:35):
and so we have two options here.
You can either a say thingshave changed on my end, I don't
have the kind of time I used tohave, or I don't have the kind
of skills that you're lookingfor, and I think you might be
better served to find somebodyelse.
Perfectly reasonable option.
Or B is I want to stay and Iwant to get back on track, and
then my answer would be to thatis amazing.
(14:56):
Let me figure out how I canhelp you do that.
And so they either opt out oropt back in.
What's not acceptable is C,which is more of the same.
They can't just continue on inthe way that they were
performing, so they can eitherexit door number one or they can
get back in the game with morehelp and with more focus.
(15:17):
So you know, what tended tohappen is if you looked at your
board as like an NBA roster,let's say you have a dozen
people I was looking to sort ofget rid of unintentionally, but
the result would be churn outthe bottom one or two people
each year and come the NBA draftlooking for a couple of lottery
picks who could I get?
(15:37):
That's going to really get mystarting lineup and really take
me to the next level, and soit's almost an opportunity for
the organization to refreshitself and to elevate itself,
but it should happen through aprofessional and thoughtful
evaluation process.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
Ever feel like you're stuck managing programs in
spreadsheets and scatteredsystems?
Apricot by Bonterra is asmarter, faster way for
nonprofits to track outcomes,simplify reporting and unlock
more funding.
With tools built for realnonprofit workflows and trusted
by over 3,400 organizations, ithelps your team grow your impact
(16:20):
and better serve your community.
You can meet us atBonterratechcom slash non-profit
hub today.
I was just reading a study theother day about kind of the
younger millennials, older Gen Zfolks who are super passionate
(16:43):
about making the world better.
Right, they are certainlybalancing their time a lot
better than I did early on in mycareer, and they are we're
seeing a rise in them joiningboards, which was actually
really interesting to me,because I think we tend to think
, okay, this is like the room ofold white men, right, it's the
(17:03):
stereotypical board.
So it's exciting to think aboutthe fact that we're starting to
see younger folks come on, Ifsomeone is jumping onto a board
for the first time, talk to thatperson.
What should their mindset be?
What's the most important thingfor them to bring to the table?
Maybe to, because they're goingto have a passion point for the
(17:23):
organization too, or theywouldn't be joining the board,
Right?
So what does it look like forthem?
And what if we had somebodywho's newer to the board space?
What would your advice be tothat person?
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Well, the advice I mean it's a great question.
I probably have six answers.
So one of the answers is one ofthe answers is don't sit back.
Don't assume that everybodyelse has it under control and
you need to, just because you'rethe newbie, like sit quietly
over there and just bide yourtime.
Now I think the best kind ofboard is an engaged, involved
(17:56):
board, asking questions.
So the advice that I would giveto people first is don't be
afraid to ask questions, becauseif it's on your mind, it's on
somebody else's mind.
That whole thought processthat's real.
The second thing is and I thinkthere are realities to
generational diversity that arechallenging Younger people are
(18:19):
more accepting of andcomfortable with technology,
generally speaking, and youngerpeople generally don't have the
same financial means andfinancial networks as people
that are further along in theircareers, generally speaking.
And so if we have a boarddynamic where we have a range of
ages represented, I think we dohave to be careful about the
(18:42):
traditional give-get structure,because if we're saying all the
board members are responsiblefor bringing in 10 grand, that's
going to feel like a mountainfor some people and that may
feel much more achievable byother people, and we need to be
mindful of that, and so one ofthe ways organizations are
handling that is really thisnotion of and we highlight it in
(19:04):
the book a little bit too ismaking sure that if you have a
threshold, maybe the thresholdis something along the lines of
personally meaningful gift tothe organization as compared to
a specific number, and that Idimensionalize that to my board
as one of your top threephilanthropic gifts each year.
So if that could be $100 for ayoung person, that could be $500
(19:25):
, be whatever, but the point isit may look and feel very
different.
The last thing I would saybecause this is a great question
is, as a younger professionalperson, you may have skills and
perspectives that theorganization needs.
The organization may notunderstand, let's say, how it's
going to embrace and approach AI, or how successful it is with
(19:47):
social media and things that youcan maybe be more of a resource
for than other folks that havebeen more experienced and around
the organization longer.
So don't minimize your abilityto make an immediate
contribution.
But again, ultimately I wouldlead with questions,
nonjudgmental questions, like dowe need more help around social
(20:10):
media?
Do we feel like we've got thatunder control, or is that an
area where you think that Icould be of some help, and so
being willing to and able toraise your hand is so valuable
and really models a greatbehavior for other board members
.
To raise your hand is sovaluable and really models a
great behavior for other boardmembers.
So come in, come in withintention and come in with an
(20:30):
expectation that you're going tomake a difference.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
I love it.
So I'm curious, as one whowrote a book myself what is your
favorite part of the book?
Because I feel like everybodyhas that one, whether it's a
chapter or a section, everybodyhas that one where like this
this is my go-to point.
Let me tell you about thiswhat's yours?
Speaker 2 (20:52):
That's so nice that you asked that and I have not
been asked that question before.
I loved generally the fact thatI was able to reconnect with so
many people in the nonprofitsector, so I interviewed 22
different subject matter expertsand CEOs when I wrote the book
and their wisdom is embeddedthroughout the book.
So, generally speaking, that'sthe part of writing the book
(21:14):
that I enjoy the most isreconnecting with those
individuals.
The chapter that I like themost is really there's really
two chapters.
I mean I like them all, butit's like your children.
You love all your children, butdo you love them all equally?
Come on, let's be honest.
It depends on which day of theweek we're talking about here.
So I love the chapter onpartnership development.
(21:35):
I think that that's just soexciting.
There's a lot in there from agood colleague, joe Waters, and
Joe is just a dynamo onpartnership development.
He really goes deep on a lot ofstuff and if you can just
imagine his deep Boston accent,as you have him speaking in the
book, it's even better.
So there's that, and then thechapter on crisis communication.
(21:55):
Liz Wanger was so helpful intalking about protocols and ways
to approach crisiscommunication and, especially
for the moment that we're in asa sector, I think there's so
much that we can take from that.
So those are chapters that I inthe crisis communication, I
felt like I learned a tremendousamount.
And the partnership developmentI just enjoyed collaborating
(22:17):
with Joe on that.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
That's awesome.
So what I'm hearing and I willbe vulnerable and honest to say
that I have not read this bookso, yes, yet I have not read it
yet but what I'm here, so we'vegot board, we've got crisis
comms, we've got partnership.
We're hitting we really arehitting all of the things in
this one.
What are the other topics thatare included here?
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Yeah.
So it starts out with buildingyour strategic plan.
That's chapter one, that's theroadmap.
Chapter two is building yourboard.
Chapter three is building yourfundraising strategy.
Then we go into building yourpartnership portfolio, building
your financial controls,building your team, building
your measurement and evaluationcapabilities, building your
brand, building yourcommunication strategy, building
a diverse team, you know,building your AI competency I'm
(23:06):
going to forget somethingbuilding your program, building
your volunteer base.
So there's 15 chapters thatcover many of the things I just
said.
And then there's the 16thchapter, which is this advice
for new leaders.
So it's been exceptionallywell-received.
I'm so delighted that whenpeople read the book, they tell
me things like I have toapologize because I wrote in the
margins so much and Iunderlined and I did it like no,
(23:28):
no, no, that's what the bookwas intended for.
That's good news, so like.
I said, the people are usingthe book in the way it was
intended and really findingvalue in various things, because
it's not a book, that thisisn't fiction.
You don't need to begin inchapter page one and read to the
end.
You can get the book and sayI'm really struggling, I'm about
to hire somebody.
Okay, read the chapter.
(23:50):
I'm building your team Go rightthere.
And then you can kind of gothrough wherever you feel like
you have the most need at thatmoment in time.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
That's great.
So it really is kind of thehow-to guide for all of the
pieces of a holistic nonprofitstrategy.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
I don't want to pretend that it's the answer,
but it is intended to cover alot of the bases that you're
going to face throughout yourjourney as a leader.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
Yes, I love it and especially understanding that I
know we see a lot of, we see alot of changeover in nonprofit
staffing over the summer right,because so many nonprofits have
that July 1 to June 30 fiscal.
So we see a lot of promotions,a lot of new hires coming in
with those July 1 contracts.
So, man, this is an ideal timefor someone who might be new to
(24:38):
a role, new to an organization,to really make sure that they're
getting everything on trackquickly.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
Yeah, I mean many of us haven't hired that many
people, or hired people or knowhow to write a great job
description, and I just saw aLinkedIn post yesterday about
job description, had 33 bulletpoints or something like
involved with it, and it's likelisten, if you're going to hire
somebody, I'm going to just saythis for humanity, not just for
(25:05):
your purposes, megan, but foranyone For the world at large.
For the world at large.
Please just put three bulletpoints in.
This is the main parts of thejob.
Everyone knows that jobs aremore than that.
When you're going to evaluatethis person at the end of 6, 9,
12, 18, 24 months, what are thethings that you're going to
evaluate them based on, thenhire them based on those things
(25:28):
and like, don't list the 43other things that they might
have to do.
Yeah, there's other things, asrequired or whatever the
catchphrase is.
But come on, let's make itsimple.
This is really what we need theperson to do.
We're a small team, soeverybody is kind of going to
take on more than just what's intheir job description.
But, like, at least three ofthe five days of the week, this
(25:48):
is the kind of stuff you'regoing to be doing.
And then let's, let's focus onthose things and let's talk
about those things.
And let's, let's talk aboutthose things and let's let's not
make it like some somethingwe're creating in a lab that
somehow some, some person isgoing to be creating that some
like perfect person.
I'm sorry.
If they're perfect, they're notcoming to your organization for
(26:09):
the amount of money that you'regoing to pay.
Then right, so you're going tohave a more junior person
potentially, and, and you'regoing to have to train them up
and you're going to do a lot ofthings, but at least tell them
this is what the job is.
So there, please, world, makeit clear, make it simpler.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Amen, absolutely.
I will ask this question, ifyou can think of one, because we
all have the end other dutiesas required, right, as in all
job descriptions, contracts etcetera.
What's the craziest thingyou've ever had to do?
And other duties as required?
I'll give you a minute to thinkof it because I will tell you
mine.
I one time was required, notrequired, but we were hosting an
(26:49):
event and again it was anon-profit.
You're on a small budget and soall of a sudden I found myself
having to make 10 dozen littleegg muffins to go on, like to go
on egg sandwiches for a seniorsendoff breakfast, which
normally not part of the jobdescription of the communication
(27:09):
director.
But here we are.
Sometimes you just got to make120 egg muffins.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
And sometimes you got to clean the toilets.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
So I would just say like when you, when you are that
person, you have your boardshowing up and and you're going
to and they're coming.
For we were baseball andsoftball charity.
We provided equipment to kidsand communities in need, and so
we had our board come in once ayear to help us with our annual
inventory count and it was agreat way for them to kind of
bond together and for them tounderstand and touch the
(27:39):
organization.
But when they're coming in, youlook around like huh, we need
to spruce this up a little bit,like you're the one grabbing the
Johnny brush, you're the onedoing the things, so there's
nothing too big or too small.
You're making the muffins,you're doing the things.
Yeah, because why wouldn't you?
You want it to be a certain way, then lead by example.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Absolutely so.
As we close out, david, thequestion I've been asking
everyone this season is if youcould give one piece of advice
to the nonprofit leader.
Maybe it's from your book,maybe it's just something you've
been thinking about lately.
What is that one takeaway inthis season?
Because we recognize it is astruggle season for a lot of
(28:21):
folks in this current climate.
So what's the one takeaway foryou?
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Yeah, I think, especially given this moment in
time, what I would tell peopleis to not hide from their
community and to communicatemore.
I would tell them I would notmake this a desperation of we
need your help now and we'reit's such an urgent moment.
I would just focus on theimpact you are having.
I would focus on this is who weare.
This is how we make adifference in our community, and
(28:46):
I would just stand up proudlyand just tell that story and say
we are going to work throughthe challenges that are existing
right now with it with apositive expectation, and but
while we're doing that, let'snot forget all of the amazing
work that's happening and justtalk so proudly about the work
you're doing and people.
They want to support a winningteam, and I think you should
(29:08):
present yourself as a winningteam in a positive way.
So, yes, there are realstruggles, but I think our
communication should focus onimpact and we should focus on
communicating more frequently,not less, in times of challenge.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
I love it, so I am generally assuming that everyone
who's listening.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy And Charlamagne Tha God!
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.