July 17, 2025 • 42 mins
What happens when life's unexpected twists lead you down an entirely new creative path? In this captivating conversation with photographer Billy Dinh, we explore how a stolen camera became the catalyst for abandoning his successful illustration career and embracing photography—eventually leading him into the world of NFTs and Web3.
Billy shares the fascinating story of his artistic evolution, from doodling as a child to freelancing for Marvel Comics, before finding his true calling behind the lens. After discovering NFTs through Instagram in March 2021, he initially approached the space as a collector before realizing the potential for authenticating and selling his own photographic work. Unlike many NFT origin stories that focus solely on financial gains, Billy was drawn by the technology's ability to provide verifiable attribution—addressing a longstanding concern for creators whose work is frequently appropriated without permission or compensation.
What makes Billy's perspective particularly valuable is his balanced approach to creative entrepreneurship. While maintaining a successful career as a product manager in the tech industry, he's built a significant presence as a photographer in the NFT space. Drawing wisdom from Elizabeth Gilbert's book "Big Magic," Billy challenges the notion that legitimacy as an artist requires abandoning financial stability. This refreshing viewpoint offers encouragement to creators feeling pressured to "go all in" before they're ready.
For artists navigating or considering entry into NFTs, Billy offers three essential pieces of advice: don't make digital assets your entire identity or financial strategy; practice patience as finding your audience may take time; and be prepared to develop promotion and community-building skills alongside your creative practice. His journey illustrates how Web3 empowers artists by removing traditional gatekeepers while simultaneously requiring them to take on new responsibilities.
Ready to gain insights from someone who's successfully balancing creative passion with practical stability? Listen now and discover why sometimes the best artistic journeys don't follow a straight line.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Who is this?
Who is this guy?
Who is this guy?
Who is this?
Who is this guy?
Who is this guy?
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Who is this guy?
Norcal guy.
Norcal guy.
Norcal guy.
Norcal guy.
Norcal guy.
Norcal guy.
Norcal guy, norcal guy, norcaland chill podcast Show.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
It's chill time, norcal, and chill podcast.
What the sh-, what the sh-,norcal and Shill Podcast.
So it's shill time, NorCal andShill Podcast what the sh-.
What the sh-.
Hey everyone, welcome to thenext episode of NorCal and Shill
.
Today's guest is Billy Deen.
You can find him on Twitter atBilly Deen.
(00:41):
It is spelled B-I-L-L-Y-D-E-E-E, underscore.
His website is BillyDNcom,which is spelled
B-I-L-L-Y-D-I-N-Hcom.
His Instagram is at Billy D,which is spelled
(01:04):
B-I-L-L-Y-D-E-E-E, and his linktree is Billy D, which is also
spelled B-I-L-L-Y-D-E-E-E.
His clients include MicrosoftXbox, and he's been published in
Street Dreams Magazine,f-stoppers, expert Photography
(01:26):
and CNN News.
Everyone, please welcome, billy.
Hey, billy, welcome to thepodcast.
How are you doing today?
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Hey man, Thanks for having me.
I'm doing very well, Justtrying to go through another day
of the cold brisk weather ofNew York.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Oof that.
Yeah, that's a little too coldfor me over there.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Yeah, I think we're not even at the coldest month
yet, so I think January Februaryis going to be usually like the
cold months over here, but Idon't know what it is.
This December has been justlike outrageously cold, so I
think we're going to have tobuckle up for an interesting
winter this year.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
A super cold winter.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Yeah, super cold winter.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Oh man.
So what are you doing for lunchthat's going to keep you warm?
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Honestly, dude.
I just have my cup of tea andthat's it.
I don't drink coffee, so liketea is the only thing that keeps
me warm.
Otherwise I just cook up a hotmeal, Nothing fancy.
Yeah, I'm more of a.
You know, I'll go out to dinner, have a nice dinner and then
just eat like I'll cook likewhatever for lunch or breakfast
(02:28):
perfect.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Yeah, I feel you on that one.
So do you have a hardwarewallet?
Speaker 2 (02:33):
yes, I do have a hardware wallet.
I do have the ledger, I thinkthe nano x, right, not the
cheapest one.
I remember when my friends werelike my you know, my friends in
the space were like, get awallet.
I'm I'm like, well, which one?
And they're like get the Ledger.
And I'm like, okay, cool, whichone?
And they're like whatever's notthe cheapest one.
So I think I got the.
I'm not sure if that's the Nano.
(02:53):
Is that the Nano X one, the onethat's like has, like, the
screen on it?
Speaker 1 (03:10):
I think, yeah, the ledger X, maybe that's.
Maybe that's what I have.
Yeah, it's also interestingthat this is your first question
.
Well, yeah, I mean, I just itis.
I think a lot of people avoidit because I mean it's priced in
dollars and it looks.
You're like dang it, I don'twant to spend that kind of money
.
And then, but you're gonnathrow down like 0.1 ETH on
something and you're like youguys gotta buy some wallets.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
I know you do.
You know what it is, thoughit's like.
I've heard and seen too manyhorror stories from like people.
I know you know that I don'teven want to go through it.
I think you guys can imagineit's just, it's sad and it's all
your hard work.
You know that's, you know,could be gone in an instant.
So I don't, I don't want tomess around, but I like this as
the first question because itkind of like makes you either
(03:45):
feel bad or feel good.
The rest of the interview.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
It's exactly what I'm going for.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Yeah, do you get a lot of people to say no, that
they don't have a hard wallet?
Speaker 1 (03:56):
I had a couple.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Yeah, no, it's nothing to feel bad about.
It's like you know, it's like Ithink everybody should have one
personally.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
It's a process.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Yes, it is.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
It is.
I mean, I definitely feel likeplatforms should be like hey,
before you start an account hereor mint something here, get a
wallet and mint from your wallet.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Oh, I agree.
I think, like SuperRare andlike OpenSea and Foundation, you
know how, like when you submitand sell your first piece, like
Foundation gives you invites andstuff, I think they should also
send you a wallet.
It's like, look, you'reofficial.
Like welcome to the space.
Like here's your what is it?
Your starter kit, you know,like here's yeah, there's your
three invites.
Here's a hard wallet, here's abaseball cap with our logo.
(04:36):
That'd be cool.
That's a good idea for, uh,anybody who wants to, who's
listening, who wants to start anew platform yeah, I mean it's,
it's promo, let's do it.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
What were your first thoughts when you heard about
NFTs?
Speaker 2 (04:49):
That's interesting.
So I'm trying to remember myfirst exact thoughts.
I remember hearing about NFTs.
So I came from, like mostartists, I came from the
Instagram world where I kind ofjust like basically lived right
At one point.
I just posted everything thereand had everything there and
promoted my work there and youknow that's where business came
(05:09):
in from and all that.
You know where I met friendsPeople like to talk bad about
Instagram, but that's where itwas for a little while and
that's where I saw NFTs.
I didn't see one specifically,but I did remember going through
one of my artist friends likestories and I noticed they were
like this is back in march, bythe way, and they were like, oh
(05:30):
my gosh, and it teases like thefuture.
You're not like looking into it, you're gonna hear about it
anyway, things like that.
And I'm just like yeah, and I'mjust like, whoa, this is like I
gotta check this out, because Iactually I work in text.
You know I'm always trying toknow, be on top of what's latest
, especially when it comes totech and crypto and all that.
Right.
So that was my first time Iheard about it was on an
(05:53):
Instagram story.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
And were you a believer?
Did you like?
Let me research this scam.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
I did, yeah, I did.
I like went to Google, I typedin NFTs and I read a bunch of
articles and I was like a coupledays have passed and I was like
I still don't get it.
I was like what is going on?
And then I kept reading and Ikept reading and one of the
things that I think really gotme, it wasn't minting my work
and selling it, it wasauthenticating my work, and I
(06:23):
think that was like the big draw.
At that point I was like cool,you know, I do a bunch of work
and I've always had, you knownot that anything's happened to
me like that, but I've alwayshad a fear of people just kind
of like taking your work andjust like not just selling it
but claiming it as their own.
You know, you hear all thesehorror stories of like even big
corporations doing it, urbanoutfitters, right, like taking
(06:44):
people's work and like puttingit on a t-shirt and selling it
without permission or royalty oranything, so that kind of sucks
, right.
And so that was my big ticketin and I was like you know what?
You know, I've never sold mywork.
I don't do my work with theintention of selling it, at
least not before, and so Iwasn't really in a big rush to
sell it.
I was just thinking, thinkinglike, who would buy it anyway?
And so I was like, but howabout I use this technology, you
(07:07):
know, on the blockchain toauthenticate it?
And so that was when I kind oflike started to look into the
technology.
I was researching platforms, andit wasn't maybe until I found
out about Nifty Gateway and Ifound out that, like people were
making money off NFTs that Ikind of started to like get
involved.
So, believe it or not, my firstinteractions with NFTs was not
(07:30):
even as an artist, more so, likeyou know, as a collector,
almost, because I had alreadyinvested in Ethereum and a bunch
of other small coins.
I didn't have much, but, youknow, I was putting stuff aside,
and so I was like, you knowwhat, let me put some stuff in
art Like people are making abunch of money off of, like you
(07:51):
know, mad dog jones.
I love his work, right andferocious.
You know, I saw his work backthen too early and, uh, all the
other people that were alreadykind of established on nifty in
the march time frame, and I waslike, let me just like try to
get an addition for as low as Ican, and uh, that's how I got it
nice started as a collector Iknow, right for the record, I
never ended up getting a mad dogjones, or for which is I wish I
(08:12):
did.
I tried to right even back, thenthey were hard, you know, but
yeah, but you know the funnything when, at that same time as
I was collecting, I started togo all right, look, I'm an
artist, right, I have work, letme just throw something out
there.
But when I was researching, Icame across justin avazana.
How do you pronounce his lastname?
I'm so terrible with names.
Uh, avazana yes I think that'sright, avazana.
(08:33):
Yeah, so justin's collection oftwin flames on open sea and I
remember like I was like superproud to come across it because
it was photography and you know,and everything on nifty was
like beautiful and like 3d andvirtual and moving right and it
was just like a different typeof art.
And so I was like man, thesephotographs I don't know if
(08:53):
they're gonna ever do well, butI came across justin's and I was
like man, this is a photographyseries that's like really well
curated and there's a greatstory behind it.
They're well shot, it looksvery museum slash gallery
quality and I just watched itsell out.
I literally watched it sell out.
It was like I think 0.55 and Iwas like, yeah, 0.55 was a lot
(09:13):
for me, especially at that time,you know, and I was like, no,
I'm not gonna buy this.
And you know, look at it now,right?
Speaker 1 (09:22):
yeah, I mean it's funny because when I first
started buying as well, I wasreserved because you know like
that's a lot, but like, uh, I'mgonna like because I remember
like buying some of my stufflike well I saw I remember when
ringers came out or not.
(09:42):
I wasn't there for when ringerscame out, but afterwards, on
secondary, and the pricesstarted to go up and I was like,
oh, I really want one of these,but they're starting to go up
in price.
I don't know.
Is it going to be worth it?
I don't know.
I finally bought one at likeone and a half ETH and I was
just like is this a bad move?
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Wait, is it bad now?
Is it okay?
yeah, yeah, yeah, it's good it'sgood, okay, good see, that's
the thing you don't know.
You don't know, there's beenmany times where I've done the
same thing and like I saw likethe toads go by at like 0.7, I
was like there's no way, this isgonna, nothing's gonna ever
happen with this, you know.
And then it was not like 15thand I was like fuck, and there's
a bunch of things.
And then there's a bunch ofthings like I think we were just
(10:22):
talking earlier about, like the, the meccas and all those
things where I'm like you knowwhat I could go in right now and
probably make a big or justlike have the biggest regret in
my life.
You know, but you never know.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
So yeah, it's hard.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
I mean, I guess I could see why some people wait
to see if there's momentumbehind it before jumping in like
buy on secondary I blamejustin's piece, though, for just
being like just soinexperienced and not like yet a
believer of this whole thing,you know, and that that was my
like big thing, right, yeah, sothat was why I don't think I
jumped in on that one yeah, Imean it's interesting.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
I mean there wasn't hardly any.
There wasn't much photographyback then, if any, trying to
think no, no, no, no, I do knowthat there were.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
I mean, I found out later that there are other
photographers that have mintedstuff that just didn't, I guess
wasn't as big in the light asjustin's collection.
I think his was like probablythe first photography collection
.
I think that was why it did aswell.
I don't think that's the onlyreason, obviously, but there's
like that was the reason why Ithink I've even heard of it,
because it was a collection andthe pieces all were cohesive and
(11:25):
they kind of belong in a bigset.
And I think there were otherphotographers out there that
maybe have done solo stuff, butI'm sure there were definitely
other photography work floatingaround at that point yeah I know
there's other photography workbecause I like nathan head, I
think it is.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
I bought some of his stuff early on, but just
Justin's was like the firstcollection, I think, and he
really got involved in thecommunity.
I mean, he did like it wasbefore, he did that Save Art
Space, I think and got the punkson the billboards and bus
stations, bus stops and whatnot.
(12:00):
I think that helped.
Getting involved in thecommunity definitely helped.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Oh, totally, oh yeah.
I think that helped.
Getting involved in communitydefinitely helped.
Oh, totally, oh yeah.
And I love what he's involvedin with the quantum curation
service or platform whatever youwant to refer to it and there's
a few other things he's doingtoo that I think, personally, is
going to be big for thephotography space introduce new
(12:26):
artists that wouldn't haveeither heard of or been a part
of this space, or just evenbring more success or bring the
success that's deserved to someartists that are already in the
space.
So I think what they're doingis great over there.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
So switching gears a little bit back to yourself.
How or what brought you intoart, photography in general, how
did you get started?
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Sure.
So I think my path is a littlebit interesting.
So I've always been interestedin creating things, I think ever
since I was very young.
I remember clearly a moment inmy life when I was like I don't
know the age exactly, but Icould have been like four or
five or six where I literallywas sitting down with my mother
in our old apartment inPhiladelphia and I was sketching
out I don't know doodles orsomething random, whatever kids
(13:05):
draw.
I remember, like being so proudof this piece of work, you know
, and the only thing I canremember my mother saying was
like you know, you, this isgreat, but you can't focus on
this.
You have to focus on school andbecome like a doctor or
something, or an engineer, andso I don't know, but for
whatever reason that kind of,I've always been artistic.
(13:32):
I've always continued to draw,even past those early ages, even
into, like high school andcollege.
I can still continue to likeillustrate and paint and did a
bunch of things.
I'm not so much photography,though, but I was always
involved in the arts and Iremember even getting like my
art teachers to go.
Like you know, we reallyrecommend you try to apply for
an art program because we thinkthat you're great.
But I never had the confidenceright because I think my whole
(13:54):
life I grew up, you know, notthinking I was good enough and
coming from parents that aresuper immigrants, asian American
parents who just wants tosucceed and they think success
comes from, you know, having ajob like a lawyer or doctor, you
know, things like that kind ofdiscouraged me.
So I continue to do it and butI never really took it seriously
(14:15):
.
And then I think I started tofind that you could kind of make
money off art.
When I was in college and I wasdoing like illustrations, like
comic book illustrations, and Iremember posting it on a forum
and it started.
The people started, it startedselling, people started
commissioning me to do smallstuff and yeah, but I continued
to go get a degree in somethingcompletely different, you know,
(14:35):
and I had been working a nine tofive in a completely different
job, right, but I kept art likenear and dear to my heart and
even after these nine to fivejobs, in any time that I had
left, I would pour it all intoart.
You know I would juggle likethe social life and work and you
know my relationships, and thenart would have a big place
(14:56):
there.
So you know, long story short,I'm telling you all this because
I accidentally kind of got intophotography because of my
illustration stuff.
So I had already been travelingfor quite a bit of time and I
took photos on my phone likeanybody else would, but I never
thought anything of it.
It was just like just taking inthe moment, and remembering
(15:17):
this beautiful scenery was why Itook photos on my phone.
And then one year, I think aboutfour years ago, I had somebody
break into my apartment here inBrooklyn.
They basically like they tookall of my stuff, all of my
important stuff, and they tookthe camera I had, which was like
a Rebel TI, just a basic camera, something that I barely ever
touched, and I remember I diduse it.
(15:39):
Whenever I did use it, I usedit to take pictures of like
still figures, like references,so I could, like you know,
references, so I could, like youknow, so I can use as reference
to paint or draw.
And I think when that wasstolen, my laptop was stolen, I
was in the market to get newstuff and at that same time, I
think, I luckily had a co-workerwho was super into photography
and he helped, kind of.
You know, he convinced me topick up a fancier camera, right?
(16:02):
So instead of like the rebel,which was like an ASPC crop
camera for beginners, he waslike you know what you can get
like a used 6D, a Canon 6D whichis like an entry-level full
frame, and so I was like I don'teven know what you're talking
about, but if it's the sameprice and it's a better camera,
sure yeah.
So I picked it up and I took itwith me to Iceland because I
(16:25):
was like you know what?
I have this nice camera and I'mgoing to this beautiful place
and I know my iPhone is notgoing to take the best photos,
so let me take this camera here.
And I swear to you, ever sincethat Iceland trip, I stopped all
my other artistic endeavors.
I stopped painting, I stoppedillustrating, and it's been oh,
wow, yeah, I know it's beenphotos every single day.
(16:50):
I guess what it was was I tookphotos and I got posted it and
right away people were like,well, these are great.
And then I started off withlandscape stuff and then I moved
over.
I naturally kind of grew a lovefor street photography, which
is like people and like justthings around the street, you
know, and living in New York,that came easy.
But yeah, I you know sorry forthat long winded answer, but I
wanted to kind of give you thebackground as to how it all came
(17:10):
together and how I got where Igot to.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Wow, I'm still surprised you dropped
illustration.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Yeah, I have so many people Cause like I even
freelance for Marvel, I did somestuff for them and I had, like
other small independent comicbook companies kind of reach out
like image.
I don't know if you guys arebig in the comic book world, so
like I was like building a namethere too.
It's just there were sidesabout that that I didn't like
and wasn't fulfilling.
That I do get with photography,and so you know, and also my
(17:39):
whole life prior to that, I kindof like stretched myself out
thin doing so many differentthings and for once I really
wanted to focus and put my allinto something, and literally
that's what I've been doing overthe last like four years since
I've started photography, and Ihad to make that sacrifice.
But for me, my belief is Idon't think anything is
permanent.
I think if one day I realizethat I want to put down the
(18:02):
camera and pick my brushes or mypen and pencils back up, then I
think I can do so.
So, but for now, this is mylife.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
So I'm curious what kind of jobs have you done along
the way?
Speaker 2 (18:15):
You want like non-art jobs or just like everything.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Well, let's hear some , because I mean there was I'm
assuming.
I might be assuming wrong, butbefore you started doing the
sketching and the illustrating,I feel like there was some jobs
in there that probably weren'tart related.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Yeah, they were.
So I like part-time like assoon as I could even work.
I had a job in Models SportingGoods they, I think they're out
of business now, but they'relike a sporting goods company
and I worked in like thefootwear to shoe department.
So I sewed sneakers for alittle bit for like a couple of
years, like through high school,you know, just to get by and
know the value of working.
So I did that and then, believeit or not, I worked at Best Buy
(18:53):
for like a good two to threeyears, two part-time, when I was
in college.
Yeah, I was like a geek squad orcomputer, like sales, so I did
a bunch of that.
And then I went to school, gota degree in computer science and
I became a product manager.
Actually, I started off as abusiness analyst and became a
product manager and that's kindof what I do now, still like
full time.
So I know surprising because alot of people are like you know
(19:16):
I thought you were aphotographer full time and
honestly I feel like I ambecause I put so much into it.
But I haven't gotten to thepoint where you know I'm brave
enough or I'm financially secureenough to kind of quit my job,
like most people are, but Ithink I don't want to jinx
anything, but it's looking a lotbetter as days go on.
That's all I'll say.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
When you're ready, the time will be there.
I encourage people to keep theirjob at least through one down
cycle keep their job at leastthrough one down cycle, just
because I don't know what thisnext potential down cycle is
going to be like.
Until the next cycle of bullrun It'll be.
It may not pull back that much,it may not, and if it doesn't,
then awesome, you can quit yourjob at that point if you feel
(20:00):
like you can.
Otherwise just grind through.
It means a couple more years.
That's not that bad in thegrand scheme of things totally
agree.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
And also just there's like this uh, I think I was
kind of on this side for alittle while, but there's also
like this book that reallyhelped me and I highly recommend
it for anybody who's like acreative and caught in that
battle of like working and alsodoing art, because I think for
the longest time I was like alittle ashamed that I was like
an artist doing art, producingart, but not really putting my
(20:30):
all, even though I am I'm not,like you know, dedicating my
entire life and quitting my job,and so I kind of felt, like you
know, like a fraud.
But I've come to kind of acceptthat like everybody's got their
own story and their own journeyand they do it at their own
pace.
And and just because you'reputting in eight hours somewhere
else doesn't mean a day,doesn't mean that, like you know
, you still can't be an artistright, you still can't put out
(20:50):
work and still do great thingsand produce great art.
And so this book I readrecently, a couple of years ago,
but it really helped me withthat journey and I highly
recommend it.
It's called Big Magic.
It's by Elizabeth Gilbert.
She is the famous author whowrote eat, pray, love.
Or eat, love, pray or forgetwhat the title, the real title
of the book is.
But she wrote a book kind ofabout her life and how she, kind
(21:11):
of like.
Even though she wrote that book, which became a movie, she
still had a full-time job right,and she was like number one on
the new york bestseller for youknow that book and won many
awards.
She still kept her job foryears after.
Her journey is really great,you know, and I would highly
recommend it for anybody eitherin my position or just
considering picking up a job asan artist too.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
So yeah, what was her name again?
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Elizabeth Gilbert, gilbert, yeah, and it's called
Big Magic.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
All right.
Next question If you were ananimal, what would you be and
why?
Speaker 2 (21:48):
Oh man, I don't know't know, man, I get asked
this sometimes and I honestlydon't even know why.
How does this come up?
I would like to think I'm likea tiger or something, but I'm
definitely not.
So I mean, like you know,everybody wants to be like this
cool animal.
You know, if you're like inharry potter, if you want to be
like a petronas, you want to belike this mighty awesome thing.
But I would say, maybe a bear,because I like to sleep, and
(22:08):
maybe, like you know, I'm kindof like I can have my sides.
You know, I'm a little like Icould be nice and gentle when I
need to be, but I could also bepretty scary if I need to be.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
So, yes, that's what I can do all right, but I mean
it's time to hibernate now.
I know man.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
Especially here in the wintertime.
I just want to sleep like allday.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
I know, if it's cold out, a nice cozy blanket.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Yeah, that's why shooting in the rain has been so
difficult recently, becauselike I'm like, all right, I've
got a bunch of rainy shots.
Now I'm going to like sleep inand like enjoy like the mood and
the kind of like the sound itmakes when it hits the window,
like that's so peaceful.
Do you have a?
favorite food I, I have many.
I'm a big fan of food as well.
I think if I had to choose oneI mean, you can't go wrong with
(22:56):
like mexican food or any type oflike latin food.
I love like all of that.
I love asian food too.
But if I had to pick one, I'dprobably say like the burrito,
it's got like everything in it.
Like you can have your rice,you know you can have your
protein, you can have someveggies, you know you got your
carbs, and it's just.
You can do it up any differentway, put anything in it, just
(23:16):
and you know, and it's like itfits in your hand.
This is great.
It's a great food, man.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Like it's great it's kind of like an all-around.
It's not too messy, like ifyou're on a road trip, you can
eat a burrito easily oh yeah,and it's like always filling.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
I don't think I've ever gone to a place who like
I'm not full after like aburrito, you know any uh
particular type of meat depends.
So, like my healthier months,I'll just stick to chicken, but
like I love al pastor okay yeah,like the pork, the, you know
the marinated pork with thepineapple.
I don't really like the carne alot on a burrito.
(23:51):
I do like beef.
I just don't like the carne alot on a burrito.
I usually stick to the chickenand the pork.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
I mean, I guess when I'm ordering a burrito I usually
go some sort of chicken.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
You usually order chicken.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
Yeah, and then tacos is where I I'd switch over to
like carne asada, yeah same.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
With the taco I'll get carne or like.
I know it's not traditional,but like fish tacos are so good.
Oh yeah, fish tacos are goodyeah, and you're in cali right,
so you get like the real goodtacos man yeah, you can
definitely find some really goodspots in like every town
there's a good spot yeah, Iremember being like in san diego
my first time and I went tolike a truck and it was like,
(24:30):
first off, it was extremelycheap.
I think it was like three bucksa taco or 250 or something like
you know, because I thinkthere's so much competition
there, right and it was justlike the size of like my 13 inch
macbook pro.
It wasn't that big but it waslike huge.
It was like huge for a taco andit was delicious and it's a
must.
Anytime I go back to the WestCoast, I always hit up like
those.
You know, I always Google orYelp all of the taco spots or
(24:53):
burrito spots.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Right For sure.
What is the best piece ofadvice you've been given?
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Ah geez.
So I've been given quite a bitand I think the one that I think
will always stick out to mewhich, funny enough, isn't from
like a teacher or any like guruor sensei or master mentor, it's
actually from a girl I met in ahostel.
She gave me some really goodadvice, I think.
So I was in South Africa, I wasin Johannesburg, I was just
(25:18):
like in a hostel and, for thosewho don't know me, I love when I
travel, I love staying in thesehostels because, like you get
to just meet like so manyamazing people and you get to
kind of like um and it's, youknow, it's a little more
affordable, so I get to do moretrips, it's more so about the
community and the relationshipsthat you build, and so I love
staying in these hostels.
And I met this girl fromAustralia and you know we're in
(25:39):
Johannesburg and I don't know itwas like over, like drinks or
something, and she gives me thisadvice and my like, my mind is
blown and she just basicallylike she says something around
the lines of how she doesn'tlike to worry about something
that hasn't happened yet,because then you worry twice and
I think what I was doing was Iwas just like complaining about
something or worrying aboutsomething, or like asking her
(26:01):
why she didn't, she's notworried.
And she was like, well, whyworry when you know you're to
have to worry about it anyway?
But when it happens, butbecause it hasn't happened yet,
like it's just a waste of likeyour stress or your emotions,
which, like I love this advicebecause, like I get what she's
trying to say, like she's nottrying to say, don't worry at
all.
There's a little bit of like youknow, worrying or feeling that
(26:23):
you need to kind of act onsomething that prepares you
right and gets you to dosomething.
It kind of motivates people atsometimes there's a level of
worrying that you're.
Just, you know, some people arelike, sometimes myself
especially where I'm likealready stressed as if that had
already happened Do you knowwhat I mean?
And it's like it hasn'thappened and so when it does
happen you're going to worry allover again or you know it's
(26:45):
just going to be more prolonged.
And I think I've taken thatadvice and I've applied it to
like some of my day to daythings, and it can be applied to
anything and it's kind ofhelped me through with certain
things.
But I think the key is kind ofhaving to know when to worry,
when not to worry.
I think that's my advice rightHaving to know.
You know when something's worthworrying for prematurely or
(27:06):
early, versus kind of whenthings you need to relax a
little bit and just let it goand then worry when it's
occurring.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
I mean it makes sense .
I mean you know there's no needto like stress about something
that may not happen.
Also like, oh crap, if I don'tdo this, you're like well, you
know, when you get to that point, it might not even be like that
.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
It's it.
You're like well, you know,when you get to that point it
might not even be like that.
A completely differentsituation, exactly, yeah, and I
think it could be situationalthough, because, like some
things for example, like doingyour homework it's like you want
to worry because you know youmight procrastinate and not do
it right.
So those there's certain thingswhere you might want to worry a
little early, but there'scertain things that are just out
of your control.
So why are you worrying?
You know, like you might nothave any say or any type of
input, or you know, no matterwhether you worry or doing
(27:52):
anything about it, it's notgoing to go that way anyway.
So why not just worry when itcomes?
You know, and I think if youcan differentiate between that
and know when to not worry earlyor not to, I think you'd live a
little a life that's a littleless stress, you know, or more
stress-free.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
So Do you have any specific advice for artists
joining the NFT space?
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Yeah, actually I do.
And it's funny because out inMiami I was at the Super Rare
booth and I had like a few ofthe staff like Casey and kind of
like I don't know why, but theywere like I, the staff like
Casey and kind of like I don'tknow why, but they were like I
was there just hanging out,talking to them and seeing them,
and they had a photography comeover who were like new to the
NFT world, and they just kind ofwere like you know, threw me on
the spot and was like do youhave any advice for this person?
(28:36):
And you know, I was with myfriend Natalie and we both kind
of like had to think on the flybecause we weren't ready to
answer these questions.
But I remember saying somethingthat I was like super, like I
would definitely want to sharethis with everybody else and
that is like don't make thisyour everything, Because I see
so many people that come in andthey kind of put so much and
(28:56):
they rely so much on this thatit gets emotionally and mentally
straining, like I don't make itmy everything.
And I still go through dayswhere I'm, like, you know, super
like stressed, don't make it myeverything, and I still go
through days where I'm, like youknow, super, like stressed and
like feeling it.
You know, feeling the fomo andall that other stuff, and I try
not to I'm always big on notgiving into that but it you just
can't help it.
Sometimes I think it's in ourneighbor, right like, I'm sure,
as a collector and as somebodywho's like also in the space.
(29:19):
You, you feel it too, don't you?
Speaker 1 (29:21):
yeah, yeah, I mean on .
I mean on some projects.
You're like, oh man, I wish Igot into that one.
I know that's usually aroundthe sometimes depending on the
project, whether it's a PFPproject, sometimes it's around
the top.
You're like I'm not going tobuy it, or I should buy it, and
then it comes down in price.
You're like why did I do that?
Speaker 2 (29:41):
I know and you know, and it's harder because it's
money.
It's money, it's lives, it'speople's whole legacies and
their brand and all of it.
It's kind of there, it's on theline almost.
And I think it's easy to kindof get sucked into thinking that
if I don't do this I'm nevergoing to succeed.
(30:02):
It's easy to feel that way, butit's not that way.
I don't think so.
You know, I think the NFT worldis just and this is what I've
told that person the NFT worldis just another channel for you
to leverage, to help boostyourself up with whatever it is
that you're after, and I'mspeaking more so on an artist
side.
So if you're like there for themoney, it's just another way
for you to make it.
You shouldn't give upeverything that you're doing,
(30:24):
you know, and if you can affordto quit your job and all that,
sure that's great, but initiallydon't make it your all until
you know for sure that this isgoing to last and this is what
you think you want your path tobe and you want, you know, your
art to completely be a part of.
I would say that's number one.
Number two is really to havepatience, and I think, like I
feel like almost every other dayI'm posting about having
(30:45):
patience and I know other peopleare too.
But like I really mean it, likeI think I've told you that back
in March when I joined, likethere were no big photography
collection or work besidesJustin's and a few others right,
like you said, nathan's.
But you know I've had my worksit there for months which
without a single interest and itsucked, but eventually it found
(31:05):
its collector.
And I'm also seeing this fromother people who have put work
around that same time or putwork even shorter, like they
have it sit for a couple ofweeks, a couple of months and it
sells.
And I know that people thatit's easy for us to say because
it's sold, and I know thatpeople who have worked now
they're like, yeah, I'm sureit's, like it's great for you to
say cause you're sold.
But I truly believe that if youdo good work, you present
(31:27):
yourself well, you're part ofthis community and it shows
it'll come.
And if it doesn't now, itdoesn't mean that you suck or
like you know that you're doinganything wrong.
It just means you know you justhaven't found the person to
connect with it.
Like and stuff that you collect, right.
You're not going to go out andbuy every little thing right as
(31:47):
much as you probably want to,and that's the beauty about the
space is people have options,you know, and I think just be
patient.
And I think maybe my last pieceof advice is like for people
entering the spaces and thisworks, I think everybody not
just artists, but collectors andanybody was like be ready to to
like use, like the skills thatyou're not probably used to
using.
I'll use it being an artist asan example, like I was not used
(32:10):
to like having to promote mywork so much and really like
figure out my brand so quick andknow how to sell right or know
how to like market.
But in this space, in thisworld, that's one of the
benefits of Web3.
That's how and that's why Ithink the middle person is kind
of being cut out right.
You have the choice to do that.
You can be your own, you knowcurator, you can directly work
(32:33):
with the collector, you cannegotiate, you can promote, you
can sell and I know that to somepeople that's not good, but to
some people it is and you havethe choice to do it now versus
before.
In the traditional space, youdidn't really have that choice,
or if you did, it was muchharder.
So I would say, people comingin, be prepared to, like, tap
(32:53):
into some of those skill setsyou know that you may have and
not use, because it'll come inhandy.
And I think you'll notice fromsome of those bigger artists out
there, not only are their artgood, but they're you know,
they're community members,they're vocal.
I'm sure they know they havethings about them that they
excel in addition to their artis what I'll say.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
Yeah, and that's the flip side is that you may need
to put in that extra effort thatyou're not used to do For sure.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Yeah, and then you don't have to.
I don't think that's the onlyway.
I think there are also peoplethat have come in and post their
work and have just sat back andthey've been either.
You know their work just standsout enough that people just
straight up they buy it.
But I'm seeing that if you wantyour work to kind of live on
and have, you know, a life evenafter the initial sale, like you
kind of have to like bring itup to light and talk about it,
(33:43):
and you know what I mean.
So those are, I would think,the three advice I'd give.
So what are they like?
Okay, Don't make it youreverything.
I say be patient and, just likeyou know, be able to kind of to
be you and use those, some ofthose, those skills that you're
not used to using.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
So if you could, live or move anywhere.
Where would you live and why?
Speaker 2 (34:03):
That's an interesting question.
I feel like it changes everycouple of months.
It's like whenever I'm likebored or whatever part of the
city, the city New York that Ilive in that I'm bored of or I'm
feeling I feel like I want tomove to another city.
That's like the opposite ofthat.
So I think right now I'd loveto kind of move to like assuming
there's no COVID and everythingwas back to normal.
I'd love to kind of move tolike assuming there's no COVID
and everything was back tonormal.
I'd love to move to like Japanfor like a little while just,
(34:27):
and it would mainly be for twothings the food, number one, and
then the photography.
I think I kind of like love toplant myself somewhere.
You know traveling is great butyou don't have that much time
to really document and capturethings at a pace that you want
to.
And if you live somewhere, Ithink that was like that would
be the ultimate key to spendmore time.
And so Japan has been always onmy list, especially Tokyo has
(34:51):
been always on my list to kindof like just spend a long time
to kind of figure out, to givemy take on, and it's also
another big city, so I know Iwouldn't be bored of it.
As of right now, it'll be there.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
Nice, that's a good one.
Do you have any questions forme?
Speaker 2 (35:12):
I do.
So I basically did a littleresearch.
You know not that I have enoughinformation, but I did research
by looking at the posts thatyou posted and the pin tweet and
I noticed you're also like veryartistic, right, you have a
kind of a background in productdesign and you've kind of
dabbled in all sorts of likeartistic ventures, like
photography and technology, andI see some of your illustrations
as well and I read your story,which I can definitely relate to
(35:35):
, and so my question is beingsomebody who's coming from that
background and going to schoolfor it, and you saying that
you've kind of been aroundtalented people, was it a little
bit discouraging or what wasthe right?
Speaker 1 (35:47):
I didn't want to mess up, oh yeah like I'm sitting so
I hadn't even really I didn'tapply for the like the actual
school.
I was just doing all theclasses for a couple years to
try and get into that school andI'm sitting next to guys that
are like sketching up amazingstuff and they haven't even
applied yet.
I'm like, oh man, I'm screwed.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
Yeah, so I can relate to that.
I think I know what it's liketo kind of not feel like you
know you're comfortable, I guess, like you don't feel
comfortable with your work, andI think most artists you know, I
know they don't think they everwill and I don't think I ever
will.
I'm very hard on myself andI've just come to accept it, and
so the point of why I'm askingyou this is do you think you
would ever get back into it in amore serious light?
(36:30):
Like I don't know what you do?
It sounds like you have abusiness and I don't you know.
This is again, Not that itwasn't, but it's more so and
there's more options, and Ithink it's now the time to kind
of own your art, and that's theone thing about this space that
(36:53):
is kind of refreshing over thelast year.
It's like you can kind of ownit.
If it sucks, there's somebodythat's going to like it.
Even if it sucks to you, you,even if it sucks to like most
people, there's still somebodyout there that's gonna like be
attached to it, whether it's thestory or the way you did it or
whatever.
And so you know, would you evergo back?
Would you ever consider goingback number one, number two?
(37:15):
Would we ever see somethinglike a minted collection from
the norcal, the norcal guy?
Speaker 1 (37:21):
so if I got back into doing the art, I probably would
do like black and whitephotography, just because I love
developing it and I don't know,it was just so fun.
I had good memories doing thatand potentially I would probably
if I wanted to try like doingsome 3d work like not like 3dD,
(37:43):
like a 3D, like perpetual motionstuff like Joe Reba I think it
is does it.
He does like one every day andI don't know, I think it could
be interesting.
Just, I guess, because I ammore of a like a, I like
geometric, symmetric stuff and Ifeel like that could be
interesting for me at least.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
Yeah, I think so too, and I think, as part of this
space, you know, you've seen alot of artists kind of dabble
into different things, right.
Like I know, like my friendObak and Ravi, you know they're
photographers, but they're notjust photographers and it shows
in this space.
Right, they do a bunch of likeyou know conceptual, you know
digital work, they do AI stuff,and so there's room for it and
(38:25):
they're celebrated with thatjust as much, if not even
sometimes even more, than theirphotography work.
So I'm just telling you this toconvince you, because I think
the world wants to see a norcalguy uh, drop.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
So well, I might drop some of my old work just to.
I guess, if anyone wants it,they can buy it for super cheap
or something.
But just also, so it's likeminted Finally did find it.
I was searching all these harddrives and everything and they
were like corrupted.
I'm like crap, it's goneforever.
(38:57):
And then I found one randomlyin a box and it worked.
So I was like oh, I found myart randomly in a box.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
I was like and it worked.
So I was like oh, I found myart nice and so, if and when you
do that, are you more so on theboat now as an artist, where
you're on the side of likeyou're going to provide
utilities, or are you more so inthe camp of like?
Art is the utility.
I know there's always likethose two sides of the fence
right now right.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
So I was thinking potentially dropping like just
art for art, and thenpotentially something, but I
don't even know what kind ofutility I would do.
I mean I could I was thinkingabout dropping something and
then maybe think of something todo in the future, but haven't
figured something out for thatyeah well, I'm sure you'll
figure it out.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
I think a lot of these things you know come into
place once you start kind ofthrowing it together.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
Right, if it needs it , it needs it, if it doesn't,
you know like I don't want torun a private discord or
anything, so I don't know getaccess to.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
I don't have no idea yeah, there's a lot that goes
into it.
These days I underestimated howuh much work goes into, kind of
like, not just like sellingwork, but the important part is
just like getting people hypedabout it and building like a
life after it and all thesethings.
Right, I think people just areso like you know, let me sell
(40:15):
this and that's it, it's over,and that's okay too.
But I think, like you, I'm herefor the long run, so I want to
make sure my work lasts, youknow, and hopefully when you put
your stuff out, it'll be in thesame mindset.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
Right, yeah, do you have any shout outs?
Speaker 2 (40:29):
Yeah, I guess I'll shout out to a few people, since
you asked the question earlierabout how I found out about NFTs
, so I do want to shout out tolike a few folks and I might
miss them all who have kind ofhelped me along with this
journey, so like, for example,mike Ill Concepts, and there's
like a few others Like I don'tknow most of their real names, I
only know them by their likeTwitter or Instagram handles,
(40:50):
like Andy Knives, timu and myfriend Moneris, a few other
folks Sorry if I'm forgettingeverybody I think Henry Henry
Pestels, something like that,but those people they kind of
were there to answer questionsand were kind enough to always
take time out of their day toget me on board when I had no
(41:11):
idea what I was doing.
And so, yeah, thank you to youguys.
And also, dude, thank you toyou, man, for putting this stuff
together.
Like it's just great to havemore visibility from different
artists right in the community,and I think this is what is, you
know, help making it so strong,especially like in the NFT
photography community andoverall just NFT community in
(41:32):
general.
So, yeah, kudos to you man.
Speaker 1 (41:35):
Well, thanks, Billy.
Thank you so much for coming onthe podcast.
I really enjoyed it.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
Yeah, I appreciate it .
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
All right.
Well, we'll have to do it againsoon.
You have a good day.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
All right, thank you, take care everyone.
Speaker 1 (41:45):
Outro Music.
Who is this?
Who is this guy?
Who is this guy?
Who is this?
Who is this guy?
Who is this guy?
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Who is this guy?
Norcal guy.
Norcal guy.
Norcal guy.
Norcal guy.
Norcal guy.
Norcal guy.
Norcal guy, norcal guy, norcaland chill podcast Show.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
It's chill time, norcal, and chill podcast.
What the sh-, what the sh-,norcal and Shill Podcast.
So it's shill time, NorCal andShill Podcast what the sh-.
What the sh-.
Hey everyone, welcome to thenext episode of NorCal and Shill
.
Today's guest is Billy Deen.
You can find him on Twitter atBilly Deen.
(00:41):
It is spelled B-I-L-L-Y-D-E-E-E, underscore.
His website is BillyDNcom,which is spelled
B-I-L-L-Y-D-I-N-Hcom.
His Instagram is at Billy D,which is spelled
(01:04):
B-I-L-L-Y-D-E-E-E, and his linktree is Billy D, which is also
spelled B-I-L-L-Y-D-E-E-E.
His clients include MicrosoftXbox, and he's been published in
Street Dreams Magazine,f-stoppers, expert Photography
(01:26):
and CNN News.
Everyone, please welcome, billy.
Hey, billy, welcome to thepodcast.
How are you doing today?
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Hey man, Thanks for having me.
I'm doing very well, Justtrying to go through another day
of the cold brisk weather ofNew York.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Oof that.
Yeah, that's a little too coldfor me over there.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Yeah, I think we're not even at the coldest month
yet, so I think January Februaryis going to be usually like the
cold months over here, but Idon't know what it is.
This December has been justlike outrageously cold, so I
think we're going to have tobuckle up for an interesting
winter this year.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
A super cold winter.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Yeah, super cold winter.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Oh man.
So what are you doing for lunchthat's going to keep you warm?
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Honestly, dude.
I just have my cup of tea andthat's it.
I don't drink coffee, so liketea is the only thing that keeps
me warm.
Otherwise I just cook up a hotmeal, Nothing fancy.
Yeah, I'm more of a.
You know, I'll go out to dinner, have a nice dinner and then
just eat like I'll cook likewhatever for lunch or breakfast
(02:28):
perfect.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Yeah, I feel you on that one.
So do you have a hardwarewallet?
Speaker 2 (02:33):
yes, I do have a hardware wallet.
I do have the ledger, I thinkthe nano x, right, not the
cheapest one.
I remember when my friends werelike my you know, my friends in
the space were like, get awallet.
I'm I'm like, well, which one?
And they're like get the Ledger.
And I'm like, okay, cool, whichone?
And they're like whatever's notthe cheapest one.
So I think I got the.
I'm not sure if that's the Nano.
(02:53):
Is that the Nano X one, the onethat's like has, like, the
screen on it?
Speaker 1 (03:10):
I think, yeah, the ledger X, maybe that's.
Maybe that's what I have.
Yeah, it's also interestingthat this is your first question
.
Well, yeah, I mean, I just itis.
I think a lot of people avoidit because I mean it's priced in
dollars and it looks.
You're like dang it, I don'twant to spend that kind of money
.
And then, but you're gonnathrow down like 0.1 ETH on
something and you're like youguys gotta buy some wallets.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
I know you do.
You know what it is, thoughit's like.
I've heard and seen too manyhorror stories from like people.
I know you know that I don'teven want to go through it.
I think you guys can imagineit's just, it's sad and it's all
your hard work.
You know that's, you know,could be gone in an instant.
So I don't, I don't want tomess around, but I like this as
the first question because itkind of like makes you either
(03:45):
feel bad or feel good.
The rest of the interview.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
It's exactly what I'm going for.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Yeah, do you get a lot of people to say no, that
they don't have a hard wallet?
Speaker 1 (03:56):
I had a couple.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Yeah, no, it's nothing to feel bad about.
It's like you know, it's like Ithink everybody should have one
personally.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
It's a process.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Yes, it is.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
It is.
I mean, I definitely feel likeplatforms should be like hey,
before you start an account hereor mint something here, get a
wallet and mint from your wallet.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Oh, I agree.
I think, like SuperRare andlike OpenSea and Foundation, you
know how, like when you submitand sell your first piece, like
Foundation gives you invites andstuff, I think they should also
send you a wallet.
It's like, look, you'reofficial.
Like welcome to the space.
Like here's your what is it?
Your starter kit, you know,like here's yeah, there's your
three invites.
Here's a hard wallet, here's abaseball cap with our logo.
(04:36):
That'd be cool.
That's a good idea for, uh,anybody who wants to, who's
listening, who wants to start anew platform yeah, I mean it's,
it's promo, let's do it.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
What were your first thoughts when you heard about
NFTs?
Speaker 2 (04:49):
That's interesting.
So I'm trying to remember myfirst exact thoughts.
I remember hearing about NFTs.
So I came from, like mostartists, I came from the
Instagram world where I kind ofjust like basically lived right
At one point.
I just posted everything thereand had everything there and
promoted my work there and youknow that's where business came
(05:09):
in from and all that.
You know where I met friendsPeople like to talk bad about
Instagram, but that's where itwas for a little while and
that's where I saw NFTs.
I didn't see one specifically,but I did remember going through
one of my artist friends likestories and I noticed they were
like this is back in march, bythe way, and they were like, oh
(05:30):
my gosh, and it teases like thefuture.
You're not like looking into it, you're gonna hear about it
anyway, things like that.
And I'm just like yeah, and I'mjust like, whoa, this is like I
gotta check this out, because Iactually I work in text.
You know I'm always trying toknow, be on top of what's latest
, especially when it comes totech and crypto and all that.
Right.
So that was my first time Iheard about it was on an
(05:53):
Instagram story.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
And were you a believer?
Did you like?
Let me research this scam.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
I did, yeah, I did.
I like went to Google, I typedin NFTs and I read a bunch of
articles and I was like a coupledays have passed and I was like
I still don't get it.
I was like what is going on?
And then I kept reading and Ikept reading and one of the
things that I think really gotme, it wasn't minting my work
and selling it, it wasauthenticating my work, and I
(06:23):
think that was like the big draw.
At that point I was like cool,you know, I do a bunch of work
and I've always had, you knownot that anything's happened to
me like that, but I've alwayshad a fear of people just kind
of like taking your work andjust like not just selling it
but claiming it as their own.
You know, you hear all thesehorror stories of like even big
corporations doing it, urbanoutfitters, right, like taking
(06:44):
people's work and like puttingit on a t-shirt and selling it
without permission or royalty oranything, so that kind of sucks
, right.
And so that was my big ticketin and I was like you know what?
You know, I've never sold mywork.
I don't do my work with theintention of selling it, at
least not before, and so Iwasn't really in a big rush to
sell it.
I was just thinking, thinkinglike, who would buy it anyway?
And so I was like, but howabout I use this technology, you
(07:07):
know, on the blockchain toauthenticate it?
And so that was when I kind oflike started to look into the
technology.
I was researching platforms, andit wasn't maybe until I found
out about Nifty Gateway and Ifound out that, like people were
making money off NFTs that Ikind of started to like get
involved.
So, believe it or not, my firstinteractions with NFTs was not
(07:30):
even as an artist, more so, likeyou know, as a collector,
almost, because I had alreadyinvested in Ethereum and a bunch
of other small coins.
I didn't have much, but, youknow, I was putting stuff aside,
and so I was like, you knowwhat, let me put some stuff in
art Like people are making abunch of money off of, like you
(07:51):
know, mad dog jones.
I love his work, right andferocious.
You know, I saw his work backthen too early and, uh, all the
other people that were alreadykind of established on nifty in
the march time frame, and I waslike, let me just like try to
get an addition for as low as Ican, and uh, that's how I got it
nice started as a collector Iknow, right for the record, I
never ended up getting a mad dogjones, or for which is I wish I
(08:12):
did.
I tried to right even back, thenthey were hard, you know, but
yeah, but you know the funnything when, at that same time as
I was collecting, I started togo all right, look, I'm an
artist, right, I have work, letme just throw something out
there.
But when I was researching, Icame across justin avazana.
How do you pronounce his lastname?
I'm so terrible with names.
Uh, avazana yes I think that'sright, avazana.
(08:33):
Yeah, so justin's collection oftwin flames on open sea and I
remember like I was like superproud to come across it because
it was photography and you know,and everything on nifty was
like beautiful and like 3d andvirtual and moving right and it
was just like a different typeof art.
And so I was like man, thesephotographs I don't know if
(08:53):
they're gonna ever do well, butI came across justin's and I was
like man, this is a photographyseries that's like really well
curated and there's a greatstory behind it.
They're well shot, it looksvery museum slash gallery
quality and I just watched itsell out.
I literally watched it sell out.
It was like I think 0.55 and Iwas like, yeah, 0.55 was a lot
(09:13):
for me, especially at that time,you know, and I was like, no,
I'm not gonna buy this.
And you know, look at it now,right?
Speaker 1 (09:22):
yeah, I mean it's funny because when I first
started buying as well, I wasreserved because you know like
that's a lot, but like, uh, I'mgonna like because I remember
like buying some of my stufflike well I saw I remember when
ringers came out or not.
(09:42):
I wasn't there for when ringerscame out, but afterwards, on
secondary, and the pricesstarted to go up and I was like,
oh, I really want one of these,but they're starting to go up
in price.
I don't know.
Is it going to be worth it?
I don't know.
I finally bought one at likeone and a half ETH and I was
just like is this a bad move?
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Wait, is it bad now?
Is it okay?
yeah, yeah, yeah, it's good it'sgood, okay, good see, that's
the thing you don't know.
You don't know, there's beenmany times where I've done the
same thing and like I saw likethe toads go by at like 0.7, I
was like there's no way, this isgonna, nothing's gonna ever
happen with this, you know.
And then it was not like 15thand I was like fuck, and there's
a bunch of things.
And then there's a bunch ofthings like I think we were just
(10:22):
talking earlier about, like the, the meccas and all those
things where I'm like you knowwhat I could go in right now and
probably make a big or justlike have the biggest regret in
my life.
You know, but you never know.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
So yeah, it's hard.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
I mean, I guess I could see why some people wait
to see if there's momentumbehind it before jumping in like
buy on secondary I blamejustin's piece, though, for just
being like just soinexperienced and not like yet a
believer of this whole thing,you know, and that that was my
like big thing, right, yeah, sothat was why I don't think I
jumped in on that one yeah, Imean it's interesting.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
I mean there wasn't hardly any.
There wasn't much photographyback then, if any, trying to
think no, no, no, no, I do knowthat there were.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
I mean, I found out later that there are other
photographers that have mintedstuff that just didn't, I guess
wasn't as big in the light asjustin's collection.
I think his was like probablythe first photography collection
.
I think that was why it did aswell.
I don't think that's the onlyreason, obviously, but there's
like that was the reason why Ithink I've even heard of it,
because it was a collection andthe pieces all were cohesive and
(11:25):
they kind of belong in a bigset.
And I think there were otherphotographers out there that
maybe have done solo stuff, butI'm sure there were definitely
other photography work floatingaround at that point yeah I know
there's other photography workbecause I like nathan head, I
think it is.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
I bought some of his stuff early on, but just
Justin's was like the firstcollection, I think, and he
really got involved in thecommunity.
I mean, he did like it wasbefore, he did that Save Art
Space, I think and got the punkson the billboards and bus
stations, bus stops and whatnot.
(12:00):
I think that helped.
Getting involved in thecommunity definitely helped.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Oh, totally, oh yeah.
I think that helped.
Getting involved in communitydefinitely helped.
Oh, totally, oh yeah.
And I love what he's involvedin with the quantum curation
service or platform whatever youwant to refer to it and there's
a few other things he's doingtoo that I think, personally, is
going to be big for thephotography space introduce new
(12:26):
artists that wouldn't haveeither heard of or been a part
of this space, or just evenbring more success or bring the
success that's deserved to someartists that are already in the
space.
So I think what they're doingis great over there.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
So switching gears a little bit back to yourself.
How or what brought you intoart, photography in general, how
did you get started?
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Sure.
So I think my path is a littlebit interesting.
So I've always been interestedin creating things, I think ever
since I was very young.
I remember clearly a moment inmy life when I was like I don't
know the age exactly, but Icould have been like four or
five or six where I literallywas sitting down with my mother
in our old apartment inPhiladelphia and I was sketching
out I don't know doodles orsomething random, whatever kids
(13:05):
draw.
I remember, like being so proudof this piece of work, you know
, and the only thing I canremember my mother saying was
like you know, you, this isgreat, but you can't focus on
this.
You have to focus on school andbecome like a doctor or
something, or an engineer, andso I don't know, but for
whatever reason that kind of,I've always been artistic.
(13:32):
I've always continued to draw,even past those early ages, even
into, like high school andcollege.
I can still continue to likeillustrate and paint and did a
bunch of things.
I'm not so much photography,though, but I was always
involved in the arts and Iremember even getting like my
art teachers to go.
Like you know, we reallyrecommend you try to apply for
an art program because we thinkthat you're great.
But I never had the confidenceright because I think my whole
(13:54):
life I grew up, you know, notthinking I was good enough and
coming from parents that aresuper immigrants, asian American
parents who just wants tosucceed and they think success
comes from, you know, having ajob like a lawyer or doctor, you
know, things like that kind ofdiscouraged me.
So I continue to do it and butI never really took it seriously
(14:15):
.
And then I think I started tofind that you could kind of make
money off art.
When I was in college and I wasdoing like illustrations, like
comic book illustrations, and Iremember posting it on a forum
and it started.
The people started, it startedselling, people started
commissioning me to do smallstuff and yeah, but I continued
to go get a degree in somethingcompletely different, you know,
(14:35):
and I had been working a nine tofive in a completely different
job, right, but I kept art likenear and dear to my heart and
even after these nine to fivejobs, in any time that I had
left, I would pour it all intoart.
You know I would juggle likethe social life and work and you
know my relationships, and thenart would have a big place
(14:56):
there.
So you know, long story short,I'm telling you all this because
I accidentally kind of got intophotography because of my
illustration stuff.
So I had already been travelingfor quite a bit of time and I
took photos on my phone likeanybody else would, but I never
thought anything of it.
It was just like just taking inthe moment, and remembering
(15:17):
this beautiful scenery was why Itook photos on my phone.
And then one year, I think aboutfour years ago, I had somebody
break into my apartment here inBrooklyn.
They basically like they tookall of my stuff, all of my
important stuff, and they tookthe camera I had, which was like
a Rebel TI, just a basic camera, something that I barely ever
touched, and I remember I diduse it.
(15:39):
Whenever I did use it, I usedit to take pictures of like
still figures, like references,so I could, like you know,
references, so I could, like youknow, so I can use as reference
to paint or draw.
And I think when that wasstolen, my laptop was stolen, I
was in the market to get newstuff and at that same time, I
think, I luckily had a co-workerwho was super into photography
and he helped, kind of.
You know, he convinced me topick up a fancier camera, right?
(16:02):
So instead of like the rebel,which was like an ASPC crop
camera for beginners, he waslike you know what you can get
like a used 6D, a Canon 6D whichis like an entry-level full
frame, and so I was like I don'teven know what you're talking
about, but if it's the sameprice and it's a better camera,
sure yeah.
So I picked it up and I took itwith me to Iceland because I
(16:25):
was like you know what?
I have this nice camera and I'mgoing to this beautiful place
and I know my iPhone is notgoing to take the best photos,
so let me take this camera here.
And I swear to you, ever sincethat Iceland trip, I stopped all
my other artistic endeavors.
I stopped painting, I stoppedillustrating, and it's been oh,
wow, yeah, I know it's beenphotos every single day.
(16:50):
I guess what it was was I tookphotos and I got posted it and
right away people were like,well, these are great.
And then I started off withlandscape stuff and then I moved
over.
I naturally kind of grew a lovefor street photography, which
is like people and like justthings around the street, you
know, and living in New York,that came easy.
But yeah, I you know sorry forthat long winded answer, but I
wanted to kind of give you thebackground as to how it all came
(17:10):
together and how I got where Igot to.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Wow, I'm still surprised you dropped
illustration.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Yeah, I have so many people Cause like I even
freelance for Marvel, I did somestuff for them and I had, like
other small independent comicbook companies kind of reach out
like image.
I don't know if you guys arebig in the comic book world, so
like I was like building a namethere too.
It's just there were sidesabout that that I didn't like
and wasn't fulfilling.
That I do get with photography,and so you know, and also my
(17:39):
whole life prior to that, I kindof like stretched myself out
thin doing so many differentthings and for once I really
wanted to focus and put my allinto something, and literally
that's what I've been doing overthe last like four years since
I've started photography, and Ihad to make that sacrifice.
But for me, my belief is Idon't think anything is
permanent.
I think if one day I realizethat I want to put down the
(18:02):
camera and pick my brushes or mypen and pencils back up, then I
think I can do so.
So, but for now, this is mylife.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
So I'm curious what kind of jobs have you done along
the way?
Speaker 2 (18:15):
You want like non-art jobs or just like everything.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Well, let's hear some , because I mean there was I'm
assuming.
I might be assuming wrong, butbefore you started doing the
sketching and the illustrating,I feel like there was some jobs
in there that probably weren'tart related.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Yeah, they were.
So I like part-time like assoon as I could even work.
I had a job in Models SportingGoods they, I think they're out
of business now, but they'relike a sporting goods company
and I worked in like thefootwear to shoe department.
So I sewed sneakers for alittle bit for like a couple of
years, like through high school,you know, just to get by and
know the value of working.
So I did that and then, believeit or not, I worked at Best Buy
(18:53):
for like a good two to threeyears, two part-time, when I was
in college.
Yeah, I was like a geek squad orcomputer, like sales, so I did
a bunch of that.
And then I went to school, gota degree in computer science and
I became a product manager.
Actually, I started off as abusiness analyst and became a
product manager and that's kindof what I do now, still like
full time.
So I know surprising because alot of people are like you know
(19:16):
I thought you were aphotographer full time and
honestly I feel like I ambecause I put so much into it.
But I haven't gotten to thepoint where you know I'm brave
enough or I'm financially secureenough to kind of quit my job,
like most people are, but Ithink I don't want to jinx
anything, but it's looking a lotbetter as days go on.
That's all I'll say.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
When you're ready, the time will be there.
I encourage people to keep theirjob at least through one down
cycle keep their job at leastthrough one down cycle, just
because I don't know what thisnext potential down cycle is
going to be like.
Until the next cycle of bullrun It'll be.
It may not pull back that much,it may not, and if it doesn't,
then awesome, you can quit yourjob at that point if you feel
(20:00):
like you can.
Otherwise just grind through.
It means a couple more years.
That's not that bad in thegrand scheme of things totally
agree.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
And also just there's like this uh, I think I was
kind of on this side for alittle while, but there's also
like this book that reallyhelped me and I highly recommend
it for anybody who's like acreative and caught in that
battle of like working and alsodoing art, because I think for
the longest time I was like alittle ashamed that I was like
an artist doing art, producingart, but not really putting my
(20:30):
all, even though I am I'm not,like you know, dedicating my
entire life and quitting my job,and so I kind of felt, like you
know, like a fraud.
But I've come to kind of acceptthat like everybody's got their
own story and their own journeyand they do it at their own
pace.
And and just because you'reputting in eight hours somewhere
else doesn't mean a day,doesn't mean that, like you know
, you still can't be an artistright, you still can't put out
(20:50):
work and still do great thingsand produce great art.
And so this book I readrecently, a couple of years ago,
but it really helped me withthat journey and I highly
recommend it.
It's called Big Magic.
It's by Elizabeth Gilbert.
She is the famous author whowrote eat, pray, love.
Or eat, love, pray or forgetwhat the title, the real title
of the book is.
But she wrote a book kind ofabout her life and how she, kind
(21:11):
of like.
Even though she wrote that book, which became a movie, she
still had a full-time job right,and she was like number one on
the new york bestseller for youknow that book and won many
awards.
She still kept her job foryears after.
Her journey is really great,you know, and I would highly
recommend it for anybody eitherin my position or just
considering picking up a job asan artist too.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
So yeah, what was her name again?
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Elizabeth Gilbert, gilbert, yeah, and it's called
Big Magic.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
All right.
Next question If you were ananimal, what would you be and
why?
Speaker 2 (21:48):
Oh man, I don't know't know, man, I get asked
this sometimes and I honestlydon't even know why.
How does this come up?
I would like to think I'm likea tiger or something, but I'm
definitely not.
So I mean, like you know,everybody wants to be like this
cool animal.
You know, if you're like inharry potter, if you want to be
like a petronas, you want to belike this mighty awesome thing.
But I would say, maybe a bear,because I like to sleep, and
(22:08):
maybe, like you know, I'm kindof like I can have my sides.
You know, I'm a little like Icould be nice and gentle when I
need to be, but I could also bepretty scary if I need to be.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
So, yes, that's what I can do all right, but I mean
it's time to hibernate now.
I know man.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
Especially here in the wintertime.
I just want to sleep like allday.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
I know, if it's cold out, a nice cozy blanket.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Yeah, that's why shooting in the rain has been so
difficult recently, becauselike I'm like, all right, I've
got a bunch of rainy shots.
Now I'm going to like sleep inand like enjoy like the mood and
the kind of like the sound itmakes when it hits the window,
like that's so peaceful.
Do you have a?
favorite food I, I have many.
I'm a big fan of food as well.
I think if I had to choose oneI mean, you can't go wrong with
(22:56):
like mexican food or any type oflike latin food.
I love like all of that.
I love asian food too.
But if I had to pick one, I'dprobably say like the burrito,
it's got like everything in it.
Like you can have your rice,you know you can have your
protein, you can have someveggies, you know you got your
carbs, and it's just.
You can do it up any differentway, put anything in it, just
(23:16):
and you know, and it's like itfits in your hand.
This is great.
It's a great food, man.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Like it's great it's kind of like an all-around.
It's not too messy, like ifyou're on a road trip, you can
eat a burrito easily oh yeah,and it's like always filling.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
I don't think I've ever gone to a place who like
I'm not full after like aburrito, you know any uh
particular type of meat depends.
So, like my healthier months,I'll just stick to chicken, but
like I love al pastor okay yeah,like the pork, the, you know
the marinated pork with thepineapple.
I don't really like the carne alot on a burrito.
(23:51):
I do like beef.
I just don't like the carne alot on a burrito.
I usually stick to the chickenand the pork.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
I mean, I guess when I'm ordering a burrito I usually
go some sort of chicken.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
You usually order chicken.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
Yeah, and then tacos is where I I'd switch over to
like carne asada, yeah same.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
With the taco I'll get carne or like.
I know it's not traditional,but like fish tacos are so good.
Oh yeah, fish tacos are goodyeah, and you're in cali right,
so you get like the real goodtacos man yeah, you can
definitely find some really goodspots in like every town
there's a good spot yeah, Iremember being like in san diego
my first time and I went tolike a truck and it was like,
(24:30):
first off, it was extremelycheap.
I think it was like three bucksa taco or 250 or something like
you know, because I thinkthere's so much competition
there, right and it was justlike the size of like my 13 inch
macbook pro.
It wasn't that big but it waslike huge.
It was like huge for a taco andit was delicious and it's a
must.
Anytime I go back to the WestCoast, I always hit up like
those.
You know, I always Google orYelp all of the taco spots or
(24:53):
burrito spots.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Right For sure.
What is the best piece ofadvice you've been given?
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Ah geez.
So I've been given quite a bitand I think the one that I think
will always stick out to mewhich, funny enough, isn't from
like a teacher or any like guruor sensei or master mentor, it's
actually from a girl I met in ahostel.
She gave me some really goodadvice, I think.
So I was in South Africa, I wasin Johannesburg, I was just
(25:18):
like in a hostel and, for thosewho don't know me, I love when I
travel, I love staying in thesehostels because, like you get
to just meet like so manyamazing people and you get to
kind of like um and it's, youknow, it's a little more
affordable, so I get to do moretrips, it's more so about the
community and the relationshipsthat you build, and so I love
staying in these hostels.
And I met this girl fromAustralia and you know we're in
(25:39):
Johannesburg and I don't know itwas like over, like drinks or
something, and she gives me thisadvice and my like, my mind is
blown and she just basicallylike she says something around
the lines of how she doesn'tlike to worry about something
that hasn't happened yet,because then you worry twice and
I think what I was doing was Iwas just like complaining about
something or worrying aboutsomething, or like asking her
(26:01):
why she didn't, she's notworried.
And she was like, well, whyworry when you know you're to
have to worry about it anyway?
But when it happens, butbecause it hasn't happened yet,
like it's just a waste of likeyour stress or your emotions,
which, like I love this advicebecause, like I get what she's
trying to say, like she's nottrying to say, don't worry at
all.
There's a little bit of like youknow, worrying or feeling that
(26:23):
you need to kind of act onsomething that prepares you
right and gets you to dosomething.
It kind of motivates people atsometimes there's a level of
worrying that you're.
Just, you know, some people arelike, sometimes myself
especially where I'm likealready stressed as if that had
already happened Do you knowwhat I mean?
And it's like it hasn'thappened and so when it does
happen you're going to worry allover again or you know it's
(26:45):
just going to be more prolonged.
And I think I've taken thatadvice and I've applied it to
like some of my day to daythings, and it can be applied to
anything and it's kind ofhelped me through with certain
things.
But I think the key is kind ofhaving to know when to worry,
when not to worry.
I think that's my advice rightHaving to know.
You know when something's worthworrying for prematurely or
(27:06):
early, versus kind of whenthings you need to relax a
little bit and just let it goand then worry when it's
occurring.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
I mean it makes sense .
I mean you know there's no needto like stress about something
that may not happen.
Also like, oh crap, if I don'tdo this, you're like well, you
know, when you get to that point, it might not even be like that
.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
It's it.
You're like well, you know,when you get to that point it
might not even be like that.
A completely differentsituation, exactly, yeah, and I
think it could be situationalthough, because, like some
things for example, like doingyour homework it's like you want
to worry because you know youmight procrastinate and not do
it right.
So those there's certain thingswhere you might want to worry a
little early, but there'scertain things that are just out
of your control.
So why are you worrying?
You know, like you might nothave any say or any type of
input, or you know, no matterwhether you worry or doing
(27:52):
anything about it, it's notgoing to go that way anyway.
So why not just worry when itcomes?
You know, and I think if youcan differentiate between that
and know when to not worry earlyor not to, I think you'd live a
little a life that's a littleless stress, you know, or more
stress-free.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
So Do you have any specific advice for artists
joining the NFT space?
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Yeah, actually I do.
And it's funny because out inMiami I was at the Super Rare
booth and I had like a few ofthe staff like Casey and kind of
like I don't know why, but theywere like I, the staff like
Casey and kind of like I don'tknow why, but they were like I
was there just hanging out,talking to them and seeing them,
and they had a photography comeover who were like new to the
NFT world, and they just kind ofwere like you know, threw me on
the spot and was like do youhave any advice for this person?
(28:36):
And you know, I was with myfriend Natalie and we both kind
of like had to think on the flybecause we weren't ready to
answer these questions.
But I remember saying somethingthat I was like super, like I
would definitely want to sharethis with everybody else and
that is like don't make thisyour everything, Because I see
so many people that come in andthey kind of put so much and
(28:56):
they rely so much on this thatit gets emotionally and mentally
straining, like I don't make itmy everything.
And I still go through dayswhere I'm, like, you know, super
like stressed, don't make it myeverything, and I still go
through days where I'm, like youknow, super, like stressed and
like feeling it.
You know, feeling the fomo andall that other stuff, and I try
not to I'm always big on notgiving into that but it you just
can't help it.
Sometimes I think it's in ourneighbor, right like, I'm sure,
as a collector and as somebodywho's like also in the space.
(29:19):
You, you feel it too, don't you?
Speaker 1 (29:21):
yeah, yeah, I mean on .
I mean on some projects.
You're like, oh man, I wish Igot into that one.
I know that's usually aroundthe sometimes depending on the
project, whether it's a PFPproject, sometimes it's around
the top.
You're like I'm not going tobuy it, or I should buy it, and
then it comes down in price.
You're like why did I do that?
Speaker 2 (29:41):
I know and you know, and it's harder because it's
money.
It's money, it's lives, it'speople's whole legacies and
their brand and all of it.
It's kind of there, it's on theline almost.
And I think it's easy to kindof get sucked into thinking that
if I don't do this I'm nevergoing to succeed.
(30:02):
It's easy to feel that way, butit's not that way.
I don't think so.
You know, I think the NFT worldis just and this is what I've
told that person the NFT worldis just another channel for you
to leverage, to help boostyourself up with whatever it is
that you're after, and I'mspeaking more so on an artist
side.
So if you're like there for themoney, it's just another way
for you to make it.
You shouldn't give upeverything that you're doing,
(30:24):
you know, and if you can affordto quit your job and all that,
sure that's great, but initiallydon't make it your all until
you know for sure that this isgoing to last and this is what
you think you want your path tobe and you want, you know, your
art to completely be a part of.
I would say that's number one.
Number two is really to havepatience, and I think, like I
feel like almost every other dayI'm posting about having
(30:45):
patience and I know other peopleare too.
But like I really mean it, likeI think I've told you that back
in March when I joined, likethere were no big photography
collection or work besidesJustin's and a few others right,
like you said, nathan's.
But you know I've had my worksit there for months which
without a single interest and itsucked, but eventually it found
(31:05):
its collector.
And I'm also seeing this fromother people who have put work
around that same time or putwork even shorter, like they
have it sit for a couple ofweeks, a couple of months and it
sells.
And I know that people thatit's easy for us to say because
it's sold, and I know thatpeople who have worked now
they're like, yeah, I'm sureit's, like it's great for you to
say cause you're sold.
But I truly believe that if youdo good work, you present
(31:27):
yourself well, you're part ofthis community and it shows
it'll come.
And if it doesn't now, itdoesn't mean that you suck or
like you know that you're doinganything wrong.
It just means you know you justhaven't found the person to
connect with it.
Like and stuff that you collect, right.
You're not going to go out andbuy every little thing right as
(31:47):
much as you probably want to,and that's the beauty about the
space is people have options,you know, and I think just be
patient.
And I think maybe my last pieceof advice is like for people
entering the spaces and thisworks, I think everybody not
just artists, but collectors andanybody was like be ready to to
like use, like the skills thatyou're not probably used to
using.
I'll use it being an artist asan example, like I was not used
(32:10):
to like having to promote mywork so much and really like
figure out my brand so quick andknow how to sell right or know
how to like market.
But in this space, in thisworld, that's one of the
benefits of Web3.
That's how and that's why Ithink the middle person is kind
of being cut out right.
You have the choice to do that.
You can be your own, you knowcurator, you can directly work
(32:33):
with the collector, you cannegotiate, you can promote, you
can sell and I know that to somepeople that's not good, but to
some people it is and you havethe choice to do it now versus
before.
In the traditional space, youdidn't really have that choice,
or if you did, it was muchharder.
So I would say, people comingin, be prepared to, like, tap
(32:53):
into some of those skill setsyou know that you may have and
not use, because it'll come inhandy.
And I think you'll notice fromsome of those bigger artists out
there, not only are their artgood, but they're you know,
they're community members,they're vocal.
I'm sure they know they havethings about them that they
excel in addition to their artis what I'll say.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
Yeah, and that's the flip side is that you may need
to put in that extra effort thatyou're not used to do For sure.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Yeah, and then you don't have to.
I don't think that's the onlyway.
I think there are also peoplethat have come in and post their
work and have just sat back andthey've been either.
You know their work just standsout enough that people just
straight up they buy it.
But I'm seeing that if you wantyour work to kind of live on
and have, you know, a life evenafter the initial sale, like you
kind of have to like bring itup to light and talk about it,
(33:43):
and you know what I mean.
So those are, I would think,the three advice I'd give.
So what are they like?
Okay, Don't make it youreverything.
I say be patient and, just likeyou know, be able to kind of to
be you and use those, some ofthose, those skills that you're
not used to using.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
So if you could, live or move anywhere.
Where would you live and why?
Speaker 2 (34:03):
That's an interesting question.
I feel like it changes everycouple of months.
It's like whenever I'm likebored or whatever part of the
city, the city New York that Ilive in that I'm bored of or I'm
feeling I feel like I want tomove to another city.
That's like the opposite ofthat.
So I think right now I'd loveto kind of move to like assuming
there's no COVID and everythingwas back to normal.
I'd love to kind of move tolike assuming there's no COVID
and everything was back tonormal.
I'd love to move to like Japanfor like a little while just,
(34:27):
and it would mainly be for twothings the food, number one, and
then the photography.
I think I kind of like love toplant myself somewhere.
You know traveling is great butyou don't have that much time
to really document and capturethings at a pace that you want
to.
And if you live somewhere, Ithink that was like that would
be the ultimate key to spendmore time.
And so Japan has been always onmy list, especially Tokyo has
(34:51):
been always on my list to kindof like just spend a long time
to kind of figure out, to givemy take on, and it's also
another big city, so I know Iwouldn't be bored of it.
As of right now, it'll be there.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
Nice, that's a good one.
Do you have any questions forme?
Speaker 2 (35:12):
I do.
So I basically did a littleresearch.
You know not that I have enoughinformation, but I did research
by looking at the posts thatyou posted and the pin tweet and
I noticed you're also like veryartistic, right, you have a
kind of a background in productdesign and you've kind of
dabbled in all sorts of likeartistic ventures, like
photography and technology, andI see some of your illustrations
as well and I read your story,which I can definitely relate to
(35:35):
, and so my question is beingsomebody who's coming from that
background and going to schoolfor it, and you saying that
you've kind of been aroundtalented people, was it a little
bit discouraging or what wasthe right?
Speaker 1 (35:47):
I didn't want to mess up, oh yeah like I'm sitting so
I hadn't even really I didn'tapply for the like the actual
school.
I was just doing all theclasses for a couple years to
try and get into that school andI'm sitting next to guys that
are like sketching up amazingstuff and they haven't even
applied yet.
I'm like, oh man, I'm screwed.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
Yeah, so I can relate to that.
I think I know what it's liketo kind of not feel like you
know you're comfortable, I guess, like you don't feel
comfortable with your work, andI think most artists you know, I
know they don't think they everwill and I don't think I ever
will.
I'm very hard on myself andI've just come to accept it, and
so the point of why I'm askingyou this is do you think you
would ever get back into it in amore serious light?
(36:30):
Like I don't know what you do?
It sounds like you have abusiness and I don't you know.
This is again, Not that itwasn't, but it's more so and
there's more options, and Ithink it's now the time to kind
of own your art, and that's theone thing about this space that
(36:53):
is kind of refreshing over thelast year.
It's like you can kind of ownit.
If it sucks, there's somebodythat's going to like it.
Even if it sucks to you, you,even if it sucks to like most
people, there's still somebodyout there that's gonna like be
attached to it, whether it's thestory or the way you did it or
whatever.
And so you know, would you evergo back?
Would you ever consider goingback number one, number two?
(37:15):
Would we ever see somethinglike a minted collection from
the norcal, the norcal guy?
Speaker 1 (37:21):
so if I got back into doing the art, I probably would
do like black and whitephotography, just because I love
developing it and I don't know,it was just so fun.
I had good memories doing thatand potentially I would probably
if I wanted to try like doingsome 3d work like not like 3dD,
(37:43):
like a 3D, like perpetual motionstuff like Joe Reba I think it
is does it.
He does like one every day andI don't know, I think it could
be interesting.
Just, I guess, because I ammore of a like a, I like
geometric, symmetric stuff and Ifeel like that could be
interesting for me at least.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
Yeah, I think so too, and I think, as part of this
space, you know, you've seen alot of artists kind of dabble
into different things, right.
Like I know, like my friendObak and Ravi, you know they're
photographers, but they're notjust photographers and it shows
in this space.
Right, they do a bunch of likeyou know conceptual, you know
digital work, they do AI stuff,and so there's room for it and
(38:25):
they're celebrated with thatjust as much, if not even
sometimes even more, than theirphotography work.
So I'm just telling you this toconvince you, because I think
the world wants to see a norcalguy uh, drop.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
So well, I might drop some of my old work just to.
I guess, if anyone wants it,they can buy it for super cheap
or something.
But just also, so it's likeminted Finally did find it.
I was searching all these harddrives and everything and they
were like corrupted.
I'm like crap, it's goneforever.
(38:57):
And then I found one randomlyin a box and it worked.
So I was like oh, I found myart randomly in a box.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
I was like and it worked.
So I was like oh, I found myart nice and so, if and when you
do that, are you more so on theboat now as an artist, where
you're on the side of likeyou're going to provide
utilities, or are you more so inthe camp of like?
Art is the utility.
I know there's always likethose two sides of the fence
right now right.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
So I was thinking potentially dropping like just
art for art, and thenpotentially something, but I
don't even know what kind ofutility I would do.
I mean I could I was thinkingabout dropping something and
then maybe think of something todo in the future, but haven't
figured something out for thatyeah well, I'm sure you'll
figure it out.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
I think a lot of these things you know come into
place once you start kind ofthrowing it together.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
Right, if it needs it , it needs it, if it doesn't,
you know like I don't want torun a private discord or
anything, so I don't know getaccess to.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
I don't have no idea yeah, there's a lot that goes
into it.
These days I underestimated howuh much work goes into, kind of
like, not just like sellingwork, but the important part is
just like getting people hypedabout it and building like a
life after it and all thesethings.
Right, I think people just areso like you know, let me sell
(40:15):
this and that's it, it's over,and that's okay too.
But I think, like you, I'm herefor the long run, so I want to
make sure my work lasts, youknow, and hopefully when you put
your stuff out, it'll be in thesame mindset.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
Right, yeah, do you have any shout outs?
Speaker 2 (40:29):
Yeah, I guess I'll shout out to a few people, since
you asked the question earlierabout how I found out about NFTs
, so I do want to shout out tolike a few folks and I might
miss them all who have kind ofhelped me along with this
journey, so like, for example,mike Ill Concepts, and there's
like a few others Like I don'tknow most of their real names, I
only know them by their likeTwitter or Instagram handles,
(40:50):
like Andy Knives, timu and myfriend Moneris, a few other
folks Sorry if I'm forgettingeverybody I think Henry Henry
Pestels, something like that,but those people they kind of
were there to answer questionsand were kind enough to always
take time out of their day toget me on board when I had no
(41:11):
idea what I was doing.
And so, yeah, thank you to youguys.
And also, dude, thank you toyou, man, for putting this stuff
together.
Like it's just great to havemore visibility from different
artists right in the community,and I think this is what is, you
know, help making it so strong,especially like in the NFT
photography community andoverall just NFT community in
(41:32):
general.
So, yeah, kudos to you man.
Speaker 1 (41:35):
Well, thanks, Billy.
Thank you so much for coming onthe podcast.
I really enjoyed it.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
Yeah, I appreciate it .
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
All right.
Well, we'll have to do it againsoon.
You have a good day.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
All right, thank you, take care everyone.
Speaker 1 (41:45):
Outro Music.
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