March 20, 2025 • 26 mins
A serendipitous camera loan from his father changed everything for Ryan Koopmans, redirecting his path from architecture school to becoming an acclaimed lens-based artist whose work graces the pages of Vogue, GQ, and Architectural Digest. This fascinating twist of fate ultimately brought Koopmans full circle, as architecture became the primary subject of his photography for over a decade.
During our conversation, Koopmans reveals the profound impact NFTs have had on his perspective as a digital photographer. "What stood out most was the whole notion of digital ownership," he explains, describing the revolutionary concept of establishing "originals" for digital works—something previously impossible for digital photographers who lacked the equivalent of a film negative. This fundamental shift, combined with the royalty structure that supports artists beyond initial sales, transformed how Koopmans views his creative output and its place in the world.
Wisdom gleaned from years of artistic persistence permeates our discussion. "You gotta crawl before you ball," Koopmans shares, recounting advice from painter Nate Loman during his early days in New York. This philosophy of patience and embracing the grind resonates throughout his career journey—from grocery store produce manager to globally exhibited artist. His personal connection to peregrine falcons, which nest atop skyscrapers and represent "the perfect combination of form and function," perfectly mirrors his artistic approach to urban landscapes captured in his 2020 book "Vantage."
The future holds exciting developments for Koopmans, including an immersive photogrammetry project allowing viewers to virtually step inside his photographs, and a groundbreaking collaboration with the AI artist Botto. As we discuss the evolving relationship between NFT art and traditional institutions, his optimism for the space shines through, celebrating the community of artists, collectors and enthusiasts committed to pushing the boundaries of what art can be in the digital age.
Ready to experience more conversations with innovative creators? Subscribe to NorCal and Chill for weekly episodes exploring the intersection of art, technology, and the creative mindset.
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Episode Transcript
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NorCal Guy (00:00):
Who is this?
Who is this guy?
Who is this guy?
Who is this?
Who is this guy?
Who is this guy?
Ryan Koopmans (00:06):
Who is this guy?
Norcal guy.
Norcal guy.
Norcal guy.
Norcal guy.
Norcal guy.
Norcal guy.
Norcal guy, norcal guy, norcaland chill podcast Show.
NorCal Guy (00:18):
It's chill time NorCal and chill podcast what
the sh- what the sh-?
Norcal and Shill Podcast.
So it's shill time NorCal andShill Podcast what the sh-, what
the sh-.
Hey everyone, welcome to thenext episode of NorCal and Shill
.
Today's guest is Ryan Kopman.
(00:40):
Ryan is a Canadian Dutchlens-based artist interested in
the built environment and thesocieties that are shaped by
those environments.
Since 2007, he has worked as afull-time professional artist
and photographer.
His book Vantage, published in2020, depicts surreal structures
(01:04):
in our world's megacities andurban landscapes.
Kopman's artwork is collectedand exhibited worldwide and has
been featured by WiredArchitectural Digest, cnn, vogue
, gq, the Guardian,mercedes-benz and many more.
(01:25):
Everybody, please welcome Ryan.
Hey, ryan, welcome to thepodcast.
How are you doing today?
Ryan Koopmans (01:31):
Hey, I'm great.
Thank you so much for having meon.
I'm super, super excited.
NorCal Guy (01:36):
Yeah, me too.
Me too.
I'm glad we finally get to chat.
Ryan Koopmans (01:39):
Never really have gotten to chat with you, no
just seeing each other inpassing at some of the different
NFT events but never had asolid conversation.
NorCal Guy (01:48):
Right, right, I'm a little found out.
You live in Sweden and I havesuch fond memories of Sweden and
I love that country and I'm alittle jealous.
Ryan Koopmans (02:00):
Yeah, it's definitely a great place to live
.
Like I was saying to you, I'moriginally Canadian but my
partner is Swedish place to live.
Like I was saying to you, I'moriginally Canadian but my
partner is Swedish, so we livehere and it's, you know, great
quality of life, similar toCanada in a lot of ways and
really friendly people, but wellsituated to go to other parts
of the world, which is sort ofthe primary, you know, component
of my work anyways, so Rightright, it's a good spot.
(02:21):
Good people, good culture.
NorCal Guy (02:24):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, it seems like a lot ofyour work is from like close by
and it seems like that's where alot of that abandoned stuff is.
Yeah, for sure, like easterneurope stuff.
Yeah, it's awesome.
So I guess, just jumping intoit, do you have and use a
hardware wallet?
Ryan Koopmans (02:40):
yes, I do, I do, it's one's.
One of the early advices I gotfrom the people that helped
introduce to the space was tothe importance of that.
So I have both Trezors andLedgers.
Oh nice, I think they bothserve a similar function, but
they're super important.
NorCal Guy (02:58):
Right for sure, they're both very similar.
I mean, they function a littlebit differently, but they both.
It's basically the same thing.
What were your first thoughtswhen you heard about nfts?
Ryan Koopmans (03:08):
what stood out to me the most, like what was the
most exciting, was just thewhole notion of digital
ownership, or like the ownershipof digital assets.
That concept was was superexciting because, you know, like
my background is as a digitallynative photographer and the
whole you know tendency for yourwork to go exist out in the
(03:29):
world, like once you put it outthere, it sort of exists as this
nameless jpeg which has a wholelife of its own.
So the idea that there couldactually be, like an original
prescribed to a particular youknow piece or visual or file, so
through its association withthe token, was super, super
interesting.
And, yeah, like the ability totransfer that ownership in such
(03:55):
a fluid way and in such like arecorded way where you could
actually, you know, have it onon chain like that, on record,
like that was super exciting.
So that was sort of like thefirst big draw to the sort of
you know what do you call itLike light bulb moment of oh,
wow, was that?
This is like totally changeshow you look at digital assets
(04:16):
and digital art.
NorCal Guy (04:18):
Right, right, I mean it's a huge change.
I mean it took me a littlewhile to get it, but once I did,
I was just like it was huge,especially for digital artists,
like you said, digital nativeartists especially.
It seems like photographershave always had like this bad
rap or not a bad rap, but likethey never got their light in
the moment or their moment inthe spotlight and you know it's
(04:38):
finally like hey, this is yourtime to shine.
Ryan Koopmans (04:41):
Yeah, for sure.
And you know, like, with aphotography like film negative,
that can exist, as the say,original for a photograph, but
with digital photography younever really had that.
So to put some sort ofstructure of like of ownership
and creation and authorshipbehind it, that was like super
inspiring.
And then other things that werereally interesting, like the
(05:04):
top were, you know, the notionsof royalties being baked into
you know the transaction, atleast not into the contract but
into the social contract.
That was, uh, something thatwas super interesting as well
yeah, no, I really like thatpart as well.
NorCal Guy (05:20):
You know to continually support the artist
beyond the initial purchase,which is really cool, it's a
great idea.
And then you know tocontinually support the artist
beyond the initial purchase,which is really cool, it's a
great idea and then you know, ofcourse, just the huge array of
use cases that nfts could beprescribed to.
Ryan Koopmans (05:35):
It's like, once you start with one thing, it
sort of leads to the next, leadsto the next, and it's just been
like a sort of overwhelmingexcitement and obsession since
first learning about it?
NorCal Guy (05:47):
Right, right, no, I feel you on that one.
I feel you on that one.
So why did you choose art?
What brought you to photography?
Ryan Koopmans (05:54):
So originally I was planning to be an architect
and then during the you knowafter, at the end of my
undergraduate, to go toarchitecture graduate school.
During the portfolio makingprocess, basically my dad lent
me a camera and said why don'tyou try to take some pictures
that maybe could fit into thisyou know creative portfolio?
(06:15):
And through that process I sortof found myself like in this
documentary photography projectabout this particular
neighborhood in Vancouver that Iwas living in at the time and I
realized pretty quickly thatthis was, if I could make
photography and art, focusing onart and creating visuals, if I
(06:37):
could make that my primary youknow career and focus, then that
seemed like the most exciting,most you know, inspiring and
motivating thing.
So I actually changedtrajectories and pursued an MFA
in photo, video and relatedmedia instead of architecture.
NorCal Guy (06:56):
Oh, wow.
Ryan Koopmans (06:58):
Yeah, and then, so that was 2009.
And then graduated from thatthree years later and it's, you
know, basically since I started,it just was full on.
And of course, you know, I waslike always creating art and
being creative when I wasyounger, but as far as like
making the serious commitmentthat this is what I was going to
do for the rest of my life,that happened around that time.
(07:20):
That transition fromarchitecture Ironically, you
know, the photography reallycame full circle, or everything
came full circle.
And now, for the last, I guesseven decade, the primary subject
has been architecture in and ofitself.
So it's like I found the rightway.
I wanted to look atarchitecture, which was like
through a camera.
NorCal Guy (07:40):
Yeah, yeah, it's definitely fitting.
I mean, you know, if that wasyour initial interest, that's
what you want to do, and thenyou just went a different route.
But same thing, and you know,it's bringing shining light on
buildings that are beautifulTotally.
Ryan Koopmans (08:00):
Even when they're empty and influences and the
way it reflects the sort ofzeitgeist or the status or
social context of the time, issomething that I think comes
from maybe an original interestin architecture itself.
NorCal Guy (08:16):
What jobs have you done along the way?
Ryan Koopmans (08:18):
Yeah, well, I've always from a young age.
Maybe it's because of my Dutchfather was always working in
some kind of job from a reallyyoung age, maybe it's because of
my dutch father was alwaysworking in some kind of job from
a really young age.
So, you know, from paperdelivery as a pre-teen to
grocery stores, that was sort ofthe thing that I spent probably
the most time in up until, youknow, through university, I was
(08:41):
the assistant manager of theproduce department of a grocery
store.
Oh, nice yeah so it's actuallystill used that knowledge of
like fruit and vegetables indaily life quite a bit For sure.
But you know, like, similar towhat I was saying before, the
moment I, like, discoveredphotography, or my you know
passion and emerging obsessionfor it, I switched to just doing
(09:05):
everything that I possiblycould to make that my living.
So shooting from events todocumentary work,
photojournalism, fashion I movedto New York, so there you pick
up as many different kind ofjobs as you can when you're
early to afford living there andlifestyle there.
(09:26):
So yeah, like it was just allgenres of photography as soon as
I discovered it right.
NorCal Guy (09:34):
No, it's good, it's good to hear about the hustle.
Not many, you know, it's always, you know.
I remember as a young guy I wasjust like, yeah, how they do
that so quick, you know.
And you're like, well, you know, they're like a generation and
a half ahead of me, for sure Iused to.
Ryan Koopmans (09:49):
Actually, when I was in new york I also assisted
an artist like a painter there.
His name is nate loman and he,you know, had like the amazing
studio in tribeca and like thewhole thing.
He was also maybe a decadeolder than me or so and he just
said you gotta crawl before youball.
So that was one of like the,the lessons that I really has
(10:12):
still like live by.
You know, like you have to, thegrind is there's no like
overnight success kind of thingand that that process of
grinding is like part of givingyourself and sacrificing your
whatever to your craft yeah man,I love that one yeah, because
we'd be like complimentingsomething.
You'd be like oh well, you gotto crawl before your ball, so
(10:34):
get back to stretching thecanvas or whatever it was right
it's so true, yeah, and you know, it makes you appreciate when
you do get to that level.
NorCal Guy (10:45):
Definitely.
All right, I made it.
I did all this grunt work.
I'm here, I can enjoy it.
Ryan Koopmans (10:51):
For sure.
And, yeah, I mean youappreciate it and it's also
something you can fall back on,I think, because, like you know,
a lot of people ask like, oh,how do you feel about the market
?
And like you know, those kindsof things.
And I think, for a lot ofartists, like we've just we've
gone through huge ebbs and flowsof bears and bold moments
through our whole career so far.
(11:11):
So it's like it just is what itis and we're pretty like
seasoned for the differentmarket swings in that way to to
just persevere because there'sno, there's no other option,
obviously for sure.
NorCal Guy (11:22):
So if you were an animal, what would you be, in a
way?
Ryan Koopmans (11:26):
yeah, and I like this question a lot.
I've always loved peregrinefalcons, which is uh you know
the type of falcon, but it has atendency to live in like the
really top of skyscrapers and inbig cities, in mega cities, and
they're like the fastest animalin the world too.
But what I like about them somuch is they're like the perfect
(11:48):
combination of form andfunction.
They're like highly efficient.
You know, like noembellishments, like everything
is there like super efficientlyevolved, which I think is pretty
cool.
And you know like I released abook in 2020 called Vantage,
which was a lot of images shotfrom really high up positions on
(12:09):
skyscrapers, essentially down,looking at the urban landscape,
and I often would think likeokay, this is like Paragon
Falcon perspective.
So it's an animal I've had likean interest with.
What about you?
NorCal Guy (12:23):
I've been going with the octopus.
Ryan Koopmans (12:25):
Okay, yeah, I don't know, you know.
NorCal Guy (12:26):
Oh, really, okay, yeah, I don't know.
You know, they just kind of canblend in.
They can just like hide whenthey need to hide, camouflage,
or they can like be out, befriendly, super intelligent.
I mean at least super.
That's a side note.
Yeah, they are intelligent, butyeah, they've just been like a
fascinating creature, like and Ihad a saltwater tank when I was
younger and the octopus wasalways something I always wanted
(12:48):
to have as a pet, but I nevergot to that level.
Because it's just, it isanother step to like keeping
that tank like the rightsettings for them.
Ryan Koopmans (12:58):
I can imagine it's really hard to keep that
happy and healthy.
Right If you don't if you'renot, like an expert at saltwater
tanks right.
NorCal Guy (13:07):
So I never did that, but it was always a dream very
cool back in the day.
Do you have a favorite food?
Ryan Koopmans (13:14):
favorite food.
I think.
Living in sweden, the food isgood.
I like fish soup sort of.
It's like a hybrid of the two.
It's really really good.
My uh fiancee, alice she makesreally good fish soup like from
a recipe learned from her dadwho's like a, you know, swedish
coastal gothenburg fish sailortype.
(13:34):
So yeah, that's definitely likebecome my favorite food over
the last few years oh, that'sawesome.
NorCal Guy (13:42):
That's great.
What's the best piece of adviceyou have been given?
Ryan Koopmans (13:48):
tricky, you know.
I mean like I think crawlbefore you.
Ball has been prettyinstrumental yeah, in the way I
have been able to grind it out,but I think, like the idea that
you are your own worst enemy, inthe sense that you're the only
thing that really stands in theway between your goals, and,
whether that's like self-doubtor, you know, often you're like
(14:11):
you're the harshest critic ofyour own work or you have, you
know, some like impostersyndrome or any of these kind of
like psychological barriers orsort of debilitating factors is
is often comes from within aswell and that, like your
perspective, is everything.
So how you can think aboutyourself and how you like deal
(14:36):
with those thoughts and thosekinds of things, I think is like
a huge determining factor onhappiness and success and, you
know, progress and all that.
So just recognizing thepotential and the power of your
own mind to be your worst enemyas well as your you know, your
biggest asset, is something thatI've thought about quite a bit
(14:57):
and been, you know, conscious ofsince I was first, I guess,
introduced to that concept yeah,no, that makes it's so hard to
get in your head and just getstuck sometimes.
NorCal Guy (15:10):
But yeah, I agree, do you have advice for artists
joining the crypto art space?
Ryan Koopmans (15:15):
Yeah, I think it's.
Like you know, I've had thechance to mentor some artists
through different programs,whether it's Zero X Society or
Wild XYyz or some of thesedifferent web three, you know,
like nft artist onboardingplatforms, and the thing that
always comes up is like itdoesn't matter if it's an nft
(15:37):
aspiring artist or regularartist, traditional artist.
The main thing is just like thatpatience and persistence to
just continue like focusing,keep your head down at work and
get used to rejection, likedon't take it personally and
find that aspect of your workthat you really love the most
(15:59):
and that you truly connect with,and just really try to hone in
on that and dive deep into.
That is what I'd say, the mainthings being patience and
persistence.
So once you find that thingthat you really want to commit
to is then those are the twothings that you just have to
really commit to.
And then, of course, more likepractical advice be on Twitter,
(16:20):
engage with your community,especially for NFT specific
artists, because a huge part ofthe technology in and of itself
is like the network effect andthe, the community and
connectivity of the work and theway that it is shared and and
et cetera.
So building that, like thatonline presence, I think has
(16:44):
some value in the NFT world,more so even than the
traditional art world.
NorCal Guy (16:50):
Yeah, no, that's good Solid.
If you could live or moveanywhere, where would you live?
And?
Ryan Koopmans (16:56):
why I think I wanted to continue a life where
I can be in different parts ofthe world at different times of
the year, basically so you knowwhether it's following different
projects which lead you todifferent parts of the world, or
, you know, seasonal things, orbeing with family, because of my
immediate family is still inWestern Canada.
(17:17):
So being able to have thatfreedom of movement and mobility
like that is really what I wantto have in the future.
Stockholm's a great base, so Iguess maintaining that kind of
like you know, real privilegeand gift that you have of being
able to move around the world isreally important to me,
especially as you see, likegeopolitical things and you know
(17:40):
whatever kind of stuffhappening in the world, it's not
like something you can justtake for granted.
NorCal Guy (17:44):
Right, right.
Do you have any questions forme?
Ryan Koopmans (17:48):
yes, I do lots of questions, no, but perfect,
perfect.
I guess the one thing I'm supercurious of is how you see the
relationship between, I guess wecould say like web three or,
you know, nft art space and thetraditional institutions, like
with the, the emergence of, likethe auction houses really
(18:09):
having a presence, ortraditional galleries or the
museums.
You know, how do you see thefuture of those two kind of
things coming together and thepros and cons of it in a general
way?
NorCal Guy (18:22):
right, that's interesting question question.
So I mean, I'm not from thatworld at all but my initial
thoughts would be like thatgeneration currently that is
like from what I rememberhearing from I think it was like
Patrick Amidon I was talking toabout it the current like
generation that determines likeart is like in their 70s and 80s
(18:46):
.
So there's definitely like thisgap there.
So education from potentialauction houses is definitely
part of it.
You know, I think they couldone way they could spin it would
be like hey, you can buy thisthing, you know to diversify,
and then we could shop it aroundto museums or whatever.
(19:06):
And you know, make you knowpotentially make some money for
you with this thing that's nothard to transport.
You know, make you knowpotentially make some money for
you with this thing that's nothard to transport.
You know, I think that'd beinteresting.
But it's definitely going to beeducation for that older
generation.
But you know some of it's goingto be taste.
You know it's just not going tobe their thing and it's just
going to be a time thing.
Ryan Koopmans (19:24):
Do you have any like long-term plan or ideal
outcome for your collection, oryou just sort of go with the
with the flow at the moment, oryou know it would be cool to you
know, put it in.
NorCal Guy (19:37):
some, you know like have like exhibits around.
It'd be cool to have that,something along those lines,
with an exhibit in museumsshowing the art to people.
I think that'd be reallyawesome.
I've haven't looked into it,but I myself just wanted to.
I know there's like at theairports there's sometimes like
this, like an open room, likethat's like this mini gallery,
(19:59):
and I've thought about like hey,what would it take to do that
at like the Sacramento airportis the one that I frequent and
they definitely have likesomething like that.
So I'd like to get it out thereand shown more for sure.
You know, it's just not, I guessdisplays aren't quite there yet
, but still, I mean the TVsdon't look terrible or the
(20:20):
computer monitors don't lookterrible.
You know it's only when you'relike up close, is that when
you're like noticing things.
But I think my goal is to I'dlike to get it out there and be
able to like curate different, Iguess, collections from within
my whole collection.
So, like hey, or maybe museumscould be like hey, you know
we're looking for this type ofthing and I could like curate
something and like submit it forlike hey, if you guys are
(20:41):
interested, I'd be willing tolike share this, something like
that would be cool, cause I knowlots of the collectors.
You know we all have our thingand we could all submit.
Like it'd be like it'd be funto have like a contest like that
, like who submits like thebetter curated thing, it'd be
fun.
Ryan Koopmans (21:00):
I know it's kind of all over the place that
answer, but I guess just no,it's super interesting and I
agree yeah, I mean, from artistsperspective, I think it's so.
Having the work shown is likeone of the best parts of it,
right?
So if you can have your workseen, exhibited or displayed
publicly or whatever that's,that's really really great great
.
NorCal Guy (21:19):
No, I'd love to do that more.
You know, and I think we're onthe edge of being able to do
that easier.
It's great to have it.
That time square stuff it'sreally cool, but it'd be great
to have it you know where peopleare going to see the art
intentionally.
Yeah, any other questions?
Ryan Koopmans (21:35):
what are you most excited for for the rest of the
year?
Any particular projects orthings that you're really is
your passion at the moment?
NorCal Guy (21:45):
well, I mean a lot currently the project that
clutch and I are working on,click Create.
I'm really excited about it.
You know we're using artists tocurate each month and they have
generally been picking like atheme or a prompt for the
artists that they choose forthat month to work off of, and
(22:07):
that's been fun to see.
You know, to try and have likea cohesive month that people can
like look at the art and belike, okay, I understand where
that art came from and curatedby an artist, and you know, just
each month is going to bedifferent.
I don't know.
I'm excited about it.
Yeah, I don't know.
I mean, it's definitely a grindto get, because it sounds like
(22:28):
whenever people hear about it,they like love it but haven't
heard of it, and I think we'repromoting artists and doing
promos better than anyone has inthis space.
So that's, you know, that'swhat I'm excited about.
We're getting to promote theartists and we're getting to
have like diversity in ourcuration, because it'd be one
(22:49):
thing if it was just like Clutchand I like like, oh, let's
choose this for this month andlet's choose for this month, but
when you have artists, you knowthey have the potential to,
because there's a ton of art Idon't see and the artists bring
that to the project for sure ithelps just keep like a sort of
finger on the pulse when youhave multiple, you know
different eyes, like suggestingdifferent things, as opposed to
(23:09):
it just coming down to likewhatever's come across your feed
, essentially right, right, forsure, for sure.
But yeah, that's been fun.
The next question is actuallyif you have any projects or
shout outs you would like to doyeah, well, next week.
Ryan Koopmans (23:26):
I'm actually super excited about this.
It's the first immersive space,like immersive piece that we're
going to release, which isessentially like you can walk
into the, the image you know,and then it'll be like a virtual
immersive environment where youcan look around and everything
so shot like a wholephotogrammetry scan of the
(23:47):
inside of this building.
And then there's the actual nft.
Is is still like thetwo-dimensional, you know moving
image, but the immersivecomponent is the extra thing
which is new and something I'vewanted to do for a long time,
because people are often sayinglike, uh, it'd be so cool to
like go into this piece or like,oh, I want to sit there, or
(24:08):
something like that.
So it's the closest I've gottento doing that.
Also, working on acollaboration with bado.
You know bado, the ai, you knowcollectively curated ai artist,
and it's the firstcollaboration that they've done.
So it's been super fun workingwith that community because it's
basically the same as as howone would go back and forth and
(24:32):
share ideas with a singularartist in a collaboration, but
it's this sort of collectivevoice.
So it's a really interestingprocess, but through it it's
really actually drawing me moreinto the whole Botto concept and
Botto project itself.
Yeah, I think it's reallyinteresting, actually.
NorCal Guy (24:53):
So the collapse should be fun too.
Yeah, that sounds great shoutouts.
Ryan Koopmans (24:57):
I mean shout out to everybody who's day in, day
out, committed and, you know,trying to make it a better space
, and whether it's artists orcollectors or enthusiasts, I
think that.
I think it's something likereally special and really unique
and really encouraging that hasemerged over the last few years
and, of course, there's lots ofnoise and like peripheral
(25:19):
genres of the NFT world whichcan take attention, but the art
space and the people that, like,really believe in it, I think
is we're on to something reallyinteresting and I think it's
super inspiring and exciting.
NorCal Guy (25:33):
Right, definitely is Well, ryan, I just want to
thank you for your time, forcoming on the show today, and I
really appreciate it, and I hopeto catch up with you at an
event soon.
Ryan Koopmans (25:43):
Yeah, likewise, thank you so much for having me
Nice to actually get to chatwith you a bit and exactly see
you somewhere soon, sometimethis year, I hope yeah, that'd
be great cool man.
NorCal Guy (25:55):
We'll take care.
We'll talk soon.
Thanks, have a good one, norcal, and chill.
Who is this?
Who is this guy?
Who is this guy?
Who is this?
Who is this guy?
Who is this guy?
Ryan Koopmans (00:06):
Who is this guy?
Norcal guy.
Norcal guy.
Norcal guy.
Norcal guy.
Norcal guy.
Norcal guy.
Norcal guy, norcal guy, norcaland chill podcast Show.
NorCal Guy (00:18):
It's chill time NorCal and chill podcast what
the sh- what the sh-?
Norcal and Shill Podcast.
So it's shill time NorCal andShill Podcast what the sh-, what
the sh-.
Hey everyone, welcome to thenext episode of NorCal and Shill
.
Today's guest is Ryan Kopman.
(00:40):
Ryan is a Canadian Dutchlens-based artist interested in
the built environment and thesocieties that are shaped by
those environments.
Since 2007, he has worked as afull-time professional artist
and photographer.
His book Vantage, published in2020, depicts surreal structures
(01:04):
in our world's megacities andurban landscapes.
Kopman's artwork is collectedand exhibited worldwide and has
been featured by WiredArchitectural Digest, cnn, vogue
, gq, the Guardian,mercedes-benz and many more.
(01:25):
Everybody, please welcome Ryan.
Hey, ryan, welcome to thepodcast.
How are you doing today?
Ryan Koopmans (01:31):
Hey, I'm great.
Thank you so much for having meon.
I'm super, super excited.
NorCal Guy (01:36):
Yeah, me too.
Me too.
I'm glad we finally get to chat.
Ryan Koopmans (01:39):
Never really have gotten to chat with you, no
just seeing each other inpassing at some of the different
NFT events but never had asolid conversation.
NorCal Guy (01:48):
Right, right, I'm a little found out.
You live in Sweden and I havesuch fond memories of Sweden and
I love that country and I'm alittle jealous.
Ryan Koopmans (02:00):
Yeah, it's definitely a great place to live
.
Like I was saying to you, I'moriginally Canadian but my
partner is Swedish place to live.
Like I was saying to you, I'moriginally Canadian but my
partner is Swedish, so we livehere and it's, you know, great
quality of life, similar toCanada in a lot of ways and
really friendly people, but wellsituated to go to other parts
of the world, which is sort ofthe primary, you know, component
of my work anyways, so Rightright, it's a good spot.
(02:21):
Good people, good culture.
NorCal Guy (02:24):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, it seems like a lot ofyour work is from like close by
and it seems like that's where alot of that abandoned stuff is.
Yeah, for sure, like easterneurope stuff.
Yeah, it's awesome.
So I guess, just jumping intoit, do you have and use a
hardware wallet?
Ryan Koopmans (02:40):
yes, I do, I do, it's one's.
One of the early advices I gotfrom the people that helped
introduce to the space was tothe importance of that.
So I have both Trezors andLedgers.
Oh nice, I think they bothserve a similar function, but
they're super important.
NorCal Guy (02:58):
Right for sure, they're both very similar.
I mean, they function a littlebit differently, but they both.
It's basically the same thing.
What were your first thoughtswhen you heard about nfts?
Ryan Koopmans (03:08):
what stood out to me the most, like what was the
most exciting, was just thewhole notion of digital
ownership, or like the ownershipof digital assets.
That concept was was superexciting because, you know, like
my background is as a digitallynative photographer and the
whole you know tendency for yourwork to go exist out in the
(03:29):
world, like once you put it outthere, it sort of exists as this
nameless jpeg which has a wholelife of its own.
So the idea that there couldactually be, like an original
prescribed to a particular youknow piece or visual or file, so
through its association withthe token, was super, super
interesting.
And, yeah, like the ability totransfer that ownership in such
(03:55):
a fluid way and in such like arecorded way where you could
actually, you know, have it onon chain like that, on record,
like that was super exciting.
So that was sort of like thefirst big draw to the sort of
you know what do you call itLike light bulb moment of oh,
wow, was that?
This is like totally changeshow you look at digital assets
(04:16):
and digital art.
NorCal Guy (04:18):
Right, right, I mean it's a huge change.
I mean it took me a littlewhile to get it, but once I did,
I was just like it was huge,especially for digital artists,
like you said, digital nativeartists especially.
It seems like photographershave always had like this bad
rap or not a bad rap, but likethey never got their light in
the moment or their moment inthe spotlight and you know it's
(04:38):
finally like hey, this is yourtime to shine.
Ryan Koopmans (04:41):
Yeah, for sure.
And you know, like, with aphotography like film negative,
that can exist, as the say,original for a photograph, but
with digital photography younever really had that.
So to put some sort ofstructure of like of ownership
and creation and authorshipbehind it, that was like super
inspiring.
And then other things that werereally interesting, like the
(05:04):
top were, you know, the notionsof royalties being baked into
you know the transaction, atleast not into the contract but
into the social contract.
That was, uh, something thatwas super interesting as well
yeah, no, I really like thatpart as well.
NorCal Guy (05:20):
You know to continually support the artist
beyond the initial purchase,which is really cool, it's a
great idea.
And then you know tocontinually support the artist
beyond the initial purchase,which is really cool, it's a
great idea and then you know, ofcourse, just the huge array of
use cases that nfts could beprescribed to.
Ryan Koopmans (05:35):
It's like, once you start with one thing, it
sort of leads to the next, leadsto the next, and it's just been
like a sort of overwhelmingexcitement and obsession since
first learning about it?
NorCal Guy (05:47):
Right, right, no, I feel you on that one.
I feel you on that one.
So why did you choose art?
What brought you to photography?
Ryan Koopmans (05:54):
So originally I was planning to be an architect
and then during the you knowafter, at the end of my
undergraduate, to go toarchitecture graduate school.
During the portfolio makingprocess, basically my dad lent
me a camera and said why don'tyou try to take some pictures
that maybe could fit into thisyou know creative portfolio?
(06:15):
And through that process I sortof found myself like in this
documentary photography projectabout this particular
neighborhood in Vancouver that Iwas living in at the time and I
realized pretty quickly thatthis was, if I could make
photography and art, focusing onart and creating visuals, if I
(06:37):
could make that my primary youknow career and focus, then that
seemed like the most exciting,most you know, inspiring and
motivating thing.
So I actually changedtrajectories and pursued an MFA
in photo, video and relatedmedia instead of architecture.
NorCal Guy (06:56):
Oh, wow.
Ryan Koopmans (06:58):
Yeah, and then, so that was 2009.
And then graduated from thatthree years later and it's, you
know, basically since I started,it just was full on.
And of course, you know, I waslike always creating art and
being creative when I wasyounger, but as far as like
making the serious commitmentthat this is what I was going to
do for the rest of my life,that happened around that time.
(07:20):
That transition fromarchitecture Ironically, you
know, the photography reallycame full circle, or everything
came full circle.
And now, for the last, I guesseven decade, the primary subject
has been architecture in and ofitself.
So it's like I found the rightway.
I wanted to look atarchitecture, which was like
through a camera.
NorCal Guy (07:40):
Yeah, yeah, it's definitely fitting.
I mean, you know, if that wasyour initial interest, that's
what you want to do, and thenyou just went a different route.
But same thing, and you know,it's bringing shining light on
buildings that are beautifulTotally.
Ryan Koopmans (08:00):
Even when they're empty and influences and the
way it reflects the sort ofzeitgeist or the status or
social context of the time, issomething that I think comes
from maybe an original interestin architecture itself.
NorCal Guy (08:16):
What jobs have you done along the way?
Ryan Koopmans (08:18):
Yeah, well, I've always from a young age.
Maybe it's because of my Dutchfather was always working in
some kind of job from a reallyyoung age, maybe it's because of
my dutch father was alwaysworking in some kind of job from
a really young age.
So, you know, from paperdelivery as a pre-teen to
grocery stores, that was sort ofthe thing that I spent probably
the most time in up until, youknow, through university, I was
(08:41):
the assistant manager of theproduce department of a grocery
store.
Oh, nice yeah so it's actuallystill used that knowledge of
like fruit and vegetables indaily life quite a bit For sure.
But you know, like, similar towhat I was saying before, the
moment I, like, discoveredphotography, or my you know
passion and emerging obsessionfor it, I switched to just doing
(09:05):
everything that I possiblycould to make that my living.
So shooting from events todocumentary work,
photojournalism, fashion I movedto New York, so there you pick
up as many different kind ofjobs as you can when you're
early to afford living there andlifestyle there.
(09:26):
So yeah, like it was just allgenres of photography as soon as
I discovered it right.
NorCal Guy (09:34):
No, it's good, it's good to hear about the hustle.
Not many, you know, it's always, you know.
I remember as a young guy I wasjust like, yeah, how they do
that so quick, you know.
And you're like, well, you know, they're like a generation and
a half ahead of me, for sure Iused to.
Ryan Koopmans (09:49):
Actually, when I was in new york I also assisted
an artist like a painter there.
His name is nate loman and he,you know, had like the amazing
studio in tribeca and like thewhole thing.
He was also maybe a decadeolder than me or so and he just
said you gotta crawl before youball.
So that was one of like the,the lessons that I really has
(10:12):
still like live by.
You know, like you have to, thegrind is there's no like
overnight success kind of thingand that that process of
grinding is like part of givingyourself and sacrificing your
whatever to your craft yeah man,I love that one yeah, because
we'd be like complimentingsomething.
You'd be like oh well, you gotto crawl before your ball, so
(10:34):
get back to stretching thecanvas or whatever it was right
it's so true, yeah, and you know, it makes you appreciate when
you do get to that level.
NorCal Guy (10:45):
Definitely.
All right, I made it.
I did all this grunt work.
I'm here, I can enjoy it.
Ryan Koopmans (10:51):
For sure.
And, yeah, I mean youappreciate it and it's also
something you can fall back on,I think, because, like you know,
a lot of people ask like, oh,how do you feel about the market
?
And like you know, those kindsof things.
And I think, for a lot ofartists, like we've just we've
gone through huge ebbs and flowsof bears and bold moments
through our whole career so far.
(11:11):
So it's like it just is what itis and we're pretty like
seasoned for the differentmarket swings in that way to to
just persevere because there'sno, there's no other option,
obviously for sure.
NorCal Guy (11:22):
So if you were an animal, what would you be, in a
way?
Ryan Koopmans (11:26):
yeah, and I like this question a lot.
I've always loved peregrinefalcons, which is uh you know
the type of falcon, but it has atendency to live in like the
really top of skyscrapers and inbig cities, in mega cities, and
they're like the fastest animalin the world too.
But what I like about them somuch is they're like the perfect
(11:48):
combination of form andfunction.
They're like highly efficient.
You know, like noembellishments, like everything
is there like super efficientlyevolved, which I think is pretty
cool.
And you know like I released abook in 2020 called Vantage,
which was a lot of images shotfrom really high up positions on
(12:09):
skyscrapers, essentially down,looking at the urban landscape,
and I often would think likeokay, this is like Paragon
Falcon perspective.
So it's an animal I've had likean interest with.
What about you?
NorCal Guy (12:23):
I've been going with the octopus.
Ryan Koopmans (12:25):
Okay, yeah, I don't know, you know.
NorCal Guy (12:26):
Oh, really, okay, yeah, I don't know.
You know, they just kind of canblend in.
They can just like hide whenthey need to hide, camouflage,
or they can like be out, befriendly, super intelligent.
I mean at least super.
That's a side note.
Yeah, they are intelligent, butyeah, they've just been like a
fascinating creature, like and Ihad a saltwater tank when I was
younger and the octopus wasalways something I always wanted
(12:48):
to have as a pet, but I nevergot to that level.
Because it's just, it isanother step to like keeping
that tank like the rightsettings for them.
Ryan Koopmans (12:58):
I can imagine it's really hard to keep that
happy and healthy.
Right If you don't if you'renot, like an expert at saltwater
tanks right.
NorCal Guy (13:07):
So I never did that, but it was always a dream very
cool back in the day.
Do you have a favorite food?
Ryan Koopmans (13:14):
favorite food.
I think.
Living in sweden, the food isgood.
I like fish soup sort of.
It's like a hybrid of the two.
It's really really good.
My uh fiancee, alice she makesreally good fish soup like from
a recipe learned from her dadwho's like a, you know, swedish
coastal gothenburg fish sailortype.
(13:34):
So yeah, that's definitely likebecome my favorite food over
the last few years oh, that'sawesome.
NorCal Guy (13:42):
That's great.
What's the best piece of adviceyou have been given?
Ryan Koopmans (13:48):
tricky, you know.
I mean like I think crawlbefore you.
Ball has been prettyinstrumental yeah, in the way I
have been able to grind it out,but I think, like the idea that
you are your own worst enemy, inthe sense that you're the only
thing that really stands in theway between your goals, and,
whether that's like self-doubtor, you know, often you're like
(14:11):
you're the harshest critic ofyour own work or you have, you
know, some like impostersyndrome or any of these kind of
like psychological barriers orsort of debilitating factors is
is often comes from within aswell and that, like your
perspective, is everything.
So how you can think aboutyourself and how you like deal
(14:36):
with those thoughts and thosekinds of things, I think is like
a huge determining factor onhappiness and success and, you
know, progress and all that.
So just recognizing thepotential and the power of your
own mind to be your worst enemyas well as your you know, your
biggest asset, is something thatI've thought about quite a bit
(14:57):
and been, you know, conscious ofsince I was first, I guess,
introduced to that concept yeah,no, that makes it's so hard to
get in your head and just getstuck sometimes.
NorCal Guy (15:10):
But yeah, I agree, do you have advice for artists
joining the crypto art space?
Ryan Koopmans (15:15):
Yeah, I think it's.
Like you know, I've had thechance to mentor some artists
through different programs,whether it's Zero X Society or
Wild XYyz or some of thesedifferent web three, you know,
like nft artist onboardingplatforms, and the thing that
always comes up is like itdoesn't matter if it's an nft
(15:37):
aspiring artist or regularartist, traditional artist.
The main thing is just like thatpatience and persistence to
just continue like focusing,keep your head down at work and
get used to rejection, likedon't take it personally and
find that aspect of your workthat you really love the most
(15:59):
and that you truly connect with,and just really try to hone in
on that and dive deep into.
That is what I'd say, the mainthings being patience and
persistence.
So once you find that thingthat you really want to commit
to is then those are the twothings that you just have to
really commit to.
And then, of course, more likepractical advice be on Twitter,
(16:20):
engage with your community,especially for NFT specific
artists, because a huge part ofthe technology in and of itself
is like the network effect andthe, the community and
connectivity of the work and theway that it is shared and and
et cetera.
So building that, like thatonline presence, I think has
(16:44):
some value in the NFT world,more so even than the
traditional art world.
NorCal Guy (16:50):
Yeah, no, that's good Solid.
If you could live or moveanywhere, where would you live?
And?
Ryan Koopmans (16:56):
why I think I wanted to continue a life where
I can be in different parts ofthe world at different times of
the year, basically so you knowwhether it's following different
projects which lead you todifferent parts of the world, or
, you know, seasonal things, orbeing with family, because of my
immediate family is still inWestern Canada.
(17:17):
So being able to have thatfreedom of movement and mobility
like that is really what I wantto have in the future.
Stockholm's a great base, so Iguess maintaining that kind of
like you know, real privilegeand gift that you have of being
able to move around the world isreally important to me,
especially as you see, likegeopolitical things and you know
(17:40):
whatever kind of stuffhappening in the world, it's not
like something you can justtake for granted.
NorCal Guy (17:44):
Right, right.
Do you have any questions forme?
Ryan Koopmans (17:48):
yes, I do lots of questions, no, but perfect,
perfect.
I guess the one thing I'm supercurious of is how you see the
relationship between, I guess wecould say like web three or,
you know, nft art space and thetraditional institutions, like
with the, the emergence of, likethe auction houses really
(18:09):
having a presence, ortraditional galleries or the
museums.
You know, how do you see thefuture of those two kind of
things coming together and thepros and cons of it in a general
way?
NorCal Guy (18:22):
right, that's interesting question question.
So I mean, I'm not from thatworld at all but my initial
thoughts would be like thatgeneration currently that is
like from what I rememberhearing from I think it was like
Patrick Amidon I was talking toabout it the current like
generation that determines likeart is like in their 70s and 80s
(18:46):
.
So there's definitely like thisgap there.
So education from potentialauction houses is definitely
part of it.
You know, I think they couldone way they could spin it would
be like hey, you can buy thisthing, you know to diversify,
and then we could shop it aroundto museums or whatever.
(19:06):
And you know, make you knowpotentially make some money for
you with this thing that's nothard to transport.
You know, make you knowpotentially make some money for
you with this thing that's nothard to transport.
You know, I think that'd beinteresting.
But it's definitely going to beeducation for that older
generation.
But you know some of it's goingto be taste.
You know it's just not going tobe their thing and it's just
going to be a time thing.
Ryan Koopmans (19:24):
Do you have any like long-term plan or ideal
outcome for your collection, oryou just sort of go with the
with the flow at the moment, oryou know it would be cool to you
know, put it in.
NorCal Guy (19:37):
some, you know like have like exhibits around.
It'd be cool to have that,something along those lines,
with an exhibit in museumsshowing the art to people.
I think that'd be reallyawesome.
I've haven't looked into it,but I myself just wanted to.
I know there's like at theairports there's sometimes like
this, like an open room, likethat's like this mini gallery,
(19:59):
and I've thought about like hey,what would it take to do that
at like the Sacramento airportis the one that I frequent and
they definitely have likesomething like that.
So I'd like to get it out thereand shown more for sure.
You know, it's just not, I guessdisplays aren't quite there yet
, but still, I mean the TVsdon't look terrible or the
(20:20):
computer monitors don't lookterrible.
You know it's only when you'relike up close, is that when
you're like noticing things.
But I think my goal is to I'dlike to get it out there and be
able to like curate different, Iguess, collections from within
my whole collection.
So, like hey, or maybe museumscould be like hey, you know
we're looking for this type ofthing and I could like curate
something and like submit it forlike hey, if you guys are
(20:41):
interested, I'd be willing tolike share this, something like
that would be cool, cause I knowlots of the collectors.
You know we all have our thingand we could all submit.
Like it'd be like it'd be funto have like a contest like that
, like who submits like thebetter curated thing, it'd be
fun.
Ryan Koopmans (21:00):
I know it's kind of all over the place that
answer, but I guess just no,it's super interesting and I
agree yeah, I mean, from artistsperspective, I think it's so.
Having the work shown is likeone of the best parts of it,
right?
So if you can have your workseen, exhibited or displayed
publicly or whatever that's,that's really really great great
.
NorCal Guy (21:19):
No, I'd love to do that more.
You know, and I think we're onthe edge of being able to do
that easier.
It's great to have it.
That time square stuff it'sreally cool, but it'd be great
to have it you know where peopleare going to see the art
intentionally.
Yeah, any other questions?
Ryan Koopmans (21:35):
what are you most excited for for the rest of the
year?
Any particular projects orthings that you're really is
your passion at the moment?
NorCal Guy (21:45):
well, I mean a lot currently the project that
clutch and I are working on,click Create.
I'm really excited about it.
You know we're using artists tocurate each month and they have
generally been picking like atheme or a prompt for the
artists that they choose forthat month to work off of, and
(22:07):
that's been fun to see.
You know, to try and have likea cohesive month that people can
like look at the art and belike, okay, I understand where
that art came from and curatedby an artist, and you know, just
each month is going to bedifferent.
I don't know.
I'm excited about it.
Yeah, I don't know.
I mean, it's definitely a grindto get, because it sounds like
(22:28):
whenever people hear about it,they like love it but haven't
heard of it, and I think we'repromoting artists and doing
promos better than anyone has inthis space.
So that's, you know, that'swhat I'm excited about.
We're getting to promote theartists and we're getting to
have like diversity in ourcuration, because it'd be one
(22:49):
thing if it was just like Clutchand I like like, oh, let's
choose this for this month andlet's choose for this month, but
when you have artists, you knowthey have the potential to,
because there's a ton of art Idon't see and the artists bring
that to the project for sure ithelps just keep like a sort of
finger on the pulse when youhave multiple, you know
different eyes, like suggestingdifferent things, as opposed to
(23:09):
it just coming down to likewhatever's come across your feed
, essentially right, right, forsure, for sure.
But yeah, that's been fun.
The next question is actuallyif you have any projects or
shout outs you would like to doyeah, well, next week.
Ryan Koopmans (23:26):
I'm actually super excited about this.
It's the first immersive space,like immersive piece that we're
going to release, which isessentially like you can walk
into the, the image you know,and then it'll be like a virtual
immersive environment where youcan look around and everything
so shot like a wholephotogrammetry scan of the
(23:47):
inside of this building.
And then there's the actual nft.
Is is still like thetwo-dimensional, you know moving
image, but the immersivecomponent is the extra thing
which is new and something I'vewanted to do for a long time,
because people are often sayinglike, uh, it'd be so cool to
like go into this piece or like,oh, I want to sit there, or
(24:08):
something like that.
So it's the closest I've gottento doing that.
Also, working on acollaboration with bado.
You know bado, the ai, you knowcollectively curated ai artist,
and it's the firstcollaboration that they've done.
So it's been super fun workingwith that community because it's
basically the same as as howone would go back and forth and
(24:32):
share ideas with a singularartist in a collaboration, but
it's this sort of collectivevoice.
So it's a really interestingprocess, but through it it's
really actually drawing me moreinto the whole Botto concept and
Botto project itself.
Yeah, I think it's reallyinteresting, actually.
NorCal Guy (24:53):
So the collapse should be fun too.
Yeah, that sounds great shoutouts.
Ryan Koopmans (24:57):
I mean shout out to everybody who's day in, day
out, committed and, you know,trying to make it a better space
, and whether it's artists orcollectors or enthusiasts, I
think that.
I think it's something likereally special and really unique
and really encouraging that hasemerged over the last few years
and, of course, there's lots ofnoise and like peripheral
(25:19):
genres of the NFT world whichcan take attention, but the art
space and the people that, like,really believe in it, I think
is we're on to something reallyinteresting and I think it's
super inspiring and exciting.
NorCal Guy (25:33):
Right, definitely is Well, ryan, I just want to
thank you for your time, forcoming on the show today, and I
really appreciate it, and I hopeto catch up with you at an
event soon.
Ryan Koopmans (25:43):
Yeah, likewise, thank you so much for having me
Nice to actually get to chatwith you a bit and exactly see
you somewhere soon, sometimethis year, I hope yeah, that'd
be great cool man.
NorCal Guy (25:55):
We'll take care.
We'll talk soon.
Thanks, have a good one, norcal, and chill.
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