June 26, 2025 • 38 mins
Digital artist Efdot takes us on a journey through the evolving landscape of crypto art and his creative process, revealing how he navigated from traditional beginnings to becoming a voice in the Web3 art movement.
The conversation opens with Efdot's origin story – how digital tools were already part of his creative workflow before discovering the blockchain, using his iPad to design large-scale murals by drawing over photographs of walls. When he discovered people collecting digital art with the same reverence as physical pieces, he saw an opportunity to share his backlog of digital work with the right audience.
Efdot paints a vivid picture of today's Web3 art scene, particularly in New York City where hundreds of artists are forming genuine communities around digital creation. "Before Web3, I didn't fit into the New York art scene," he explains. "Now there's real support and infrastructure being built." Looking forward, he envisions more institutional recognition through museum exhibitions, pointing to Refik Anadol's MoMA installation as a turning point for public perception of digital art.
What truly sets Efdot's work apart is his approach to physical editions. Rather than simple reproductions, his screen prints create unique interpretations through layered inks that produce sculptural depth and unexpected color interactions. He treats these physical pieces as a premium tier distinct from digital editions, shipping them with certificates of authenticity.
The conversation takes a personal turn as Efdot shares his mantra – "let go" – and his perfect cadence for releasing work: something substantial every 6-8 months, with smaller experiments every 1-2 months. His advice for artists entering the space resonates deeply: find communities you're passionate about and don't try to be everywhere at once.
Don't miss Efdot's upcoming exhibition at the Canal Street show as part of the Subjective Art Fair, and watch for his two new collections launching soon. Follow his journey as he continues to bridge physical and digital art worlds with thoughtful creation and community-building.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Who is this?
Who is this guy?
Who is this guy?
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Who is this guy?
Norcal guy.
Norcal guy.
Norcal guy.
Norcal guy.
Norcal guy.
Norcal guy.
Norcal guy.
Norcal guy.
Norcal and chill podcast.
So it's chill time.
Norcal and chill podcast.
What the sh-, what the sh-?
Norcal and chill podcast.
What the sh-, what the sh-?
Norcal and Shill Podcast.
So it's Shill time.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
NorCal and Shill Podcast what the sh what the sh-
.
Welcome everyone to anotherepisode of NorCal and Shill.
Today we're diving deep intothe future of digital and crypto
art with our special guest, thetalented FDOT.
Digital and crypto art with ourspecial guest, the talented
FDOT.
Join us as we explore FDOT'svisionary outlook on digital art
(00:50):
exhibitions, the evolvinglandscape of the crypto art
space and the delicate balancebetween art supply and demand.
Discover how FDOT navigatesphysical and digital additions,
shares insights from hiscreative journey and emphasizes
community and genuine connectionover economic gains.
(01:10):
We'll also touch on hisexperimental projects and his
inspirations from ancient art.
Plus, we'll hear amusinganecdotes, favorite foods and
mantras that keep him grounded.
This episode promises to be acompelling mix of reflective
insights and forward-thinkingideas.
Tune in for an engagingconversation you won't want to
(01:31):
miss Everybody.
Please welcome FDOT.
Hey, FDOT, welcome to thepodcast.
How you doing today.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Yo, what's going on, man?
Good to see you Doing welltoday.
How about you?
What's?
Speaker 1 (01:44):
going on, man, good to see you Doing well today.
How about you Good?
Good, it's a nice day, you know, starting to cool off, just a
little bit Bearable outside andfamily's doing good, nothing to
complain about.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
So life is good and I get to chat with you now, nice
man, yeah, nowhere.
I'd rather be right now on thisend of summer New York, york
days than just hanging out withNorCal and chill.
So thanks for having me on.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Yeah, my pleasure, my pleasure, but I guess just
jumping right in.
Uh, what were your firstthoughts when you heard about
this digital art, this NFT space?
Speaker 2 (02:22):
My first thoughts when I heard about the digital
art NFT space.
I think I was always attractedto digital art because it was a
part of my process, even forphysical art, like I would do
these large scale murals, and alot of times I was going around
with my phone taking pictures ofwalls and capturing the walls
and then drawing digitally overthem on my iPad.
(02:43):
So when I found out that peoplewere collecting digital art on
the block chain and having likesort of treating it as physical
art is treated with with value,with care, with scarcity of
certain items, like that wasjust really interesting to me
because I knew I had thisbacklog of work that I didn't
know how to share or or to getsort of the right eyes on and to
(03:09):
value it.
So that was really interesting.
I was a little bit confused,cause there was just so much
happening in 2021 when I firstsaw it and I wasn't real already
into crypto, so I was alsoconfused by that.
Oh yeah, so I had to learn theropes.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
No, that's fair.
That's fair.
There's a lot to to man.
It's a lot to that hits you allat once when you just jump
right in.
So why did you have anyexperiences with that like?
Speaker 2 (03:36):
advice for that.
Yeah, there was just peoplecollecting things that didn't
really feel like art to me.
So I was really like what'sgoing on?
What's the motivator?
Is it just a quick get in, getout kind of thing where people
are investing and flipping, oris there some real patronage
going on?
Is there a bit of a mix?
What about the auctions versusthe larger drops and the
(03:59):
projects?
I couldn't really draw the linebetween a project and an art
collection at the time becausethere weren't enough examples
for me, so I was just trying to.
I was on Clubhouse, listeningin, learning the ropes of how
the tech worked and why to docertain things over others, and
a lot of hype and BS as well,just like trying to sift through
(04:19):
that.
Find the good people, goodtimes Good times.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
So what brought you to?
Speaker 2 (04:28):
art.
Well, I think I was alwayscreative.
As a kid, I was always wantingto stay late in art class, and
my grandmother herself was anartist, so she always would buy
me books and supplies for theholidays.
Really, really grateful forthat, because if I didn't have
that early influence, I don'tthink I would be as comfortable
doing the mediums that I dotoday or the ones I've been
(04:49):
focusing on over the last decadeor so.
Um, and then at a certain pointin the United States, your
parents sometimes pressure youto going into college, and so
choosing a major was somethingthat you kind of have to do at
the end of high school and, uh,and I wanted to do art,
something art related.
My father kind of pushed meinto graphic design, felt like
(05:12):
it was more of a marketableskill, but I always held on to
art being my main motivator fordoing that, and I loved every
single art class that I took inthat college and outside, so it
just felt like that was thenatural thing to pursue.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Sure, I like that.
Did you do any grunge jobsalong the way, like in high
school, right after high school?
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Different kinds of jobs.
Yeah, I worked at an ice creamshop for a while.
I worked at a pizza shop for awhile.
Those were the two main onesthat I did, yeah I like the ice
cream shop, because my bestfriend worked there, so we were
always just like getting intotrouble and going downstairs and
like making our own flavors andeating way too much ice cream.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Yeah, that's awesome it's always great when you work
with a friend, someone you canlike hate the job with or enjoy
the job with.
I mean it's kind of like awin-win Either hate it together,
love it together, but you havea good time together.
That's what matters.
What do you like best aboutWeb3 today?
Speaker 2 (06:13):
What do I like best about Web3 today?
I really love the connectednessthat there is across the
network that I'm a part of,which is mainly Ethereum, like I
love that you can put art outthere and it just automatically
populates in many, manydifferent places, many different
(06:34):
platforms, and sometimesthere's even a bot that tweets
it after you mint it, and it'slike people are wanting to share
art in this time, and I likethat.
This is a very efficient way todo it just to share it.
Get it out there in more places, not just in this black hole of
, like one social media app or aportfolio website.
So that's the first thing, andthen the other one I really feel
(06:56):
like in New York City right now, there's a community forming
around art and digital art andWeb3, curious people, and I just
really like the people thatI've met.
There's brilliant minds flockingto this technology, even in
this slower period compared to2021.
And I can feel like energy justbuilding around those few
(07:17):
hundred people that stuck around, right, right, a few hundred
people I feel like in New Yorkthat I've like crossed paths
with, specifically, oh, wow,yeah, a few hundred people I
feel like in new york that I'velike crossed paths with,
specifically, oh, wow, yeah, wow.
I mean not all living in newyork, but I feel like it's.
It's a hub.
We have a show coming up, we'redoing these, there's a culture
around it and I feel like beforeweb3, I didn't, I couldn't, I
(07:37):
didn't fit into the new york artscene, I didn't have a gallery,
I didn't have people organizingevents where I was be featured
or where I could curate, and itjust it wasn't there.
And now there's real supportfor that, there's infrastructure
for that being built, wow.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Well, that's good to hear.
Yeah, because I'm not involved.
I mean, I see, like I guess itwould be mainly through
Instagram, like the meetups hereand there in New York from like
either your feed or like OVECor someone along those lines Red
Beard.
So, yeah, it's good because itdoes definitely seems like New
(08:14):
York is the one place that thereare consistent meetups and
there are consistent artists, agroup of people getting together
and doing things, which isreally awesome, because I I
don't, I haven't seen thatanywhere else currently I think
it's happening in la with irlalpha.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
oh yeah, then there's , yeah, yeah, there's a few
other cities that have acommunity um starting to form.
Excuse me, um, the yeah, it'sjust smaller.
I think new New York has thehighest concentration of people
who want to do events, because Ithink in some cities people are
just homebodies, especially inthe north, like as, as you go in
(08:52):
the Midwest, this is not asmuch as many events going on.
Uh, even in NorCal, like, I wasout there this summer and I met
some artists, but there weren'tlike events happening, right,
right For sure.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Definitely not so, but there weren't like events
happening Right right For sure.
Definitely not so.
Where do you see digital art infive years?
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Well, I was talking to my friend the other day about
how Rafiq Anadol's piece in theMoMA made a pretty big impact
here in New York inconversations at least, feeling
like there was a ripple effect,wondering how many more of those
moments it's going to takebefore people can not hear the
words Web3 or tokenized art andjust think of the sort of scammy
(09:40):
stuff that gets headlines.
It's going to take moreexhibitions that are on that
level, or just highly curatedmoments that the public can come
in and see.
So I think that's going tocontinue to happen at places
like the Whitney, the New Museum, these sort of more
forward-thinking art museums inNew York and then beyond there's
(10:02):
a bunch of new museums openingup as well.
So in five years I thinkthere'll be more of those
exhibits and museums and it'llbe treated just a little bit
more like a real art medium thanit is today.
For me in my practice I ammessing around with different
types of digital art.
So first it was procreate, justdrawing digitally, and then
(10:24):
like photo editing.
Now I'm messing around withgenerative and playing with AI.
Really can't tell where thatone's going to go, because
there's all these lawsuits inthe works right now that might
be completely banned in fiveyears in terms of, like, using
Midjourney's pool of images thatthey just sort of scraped, oh
yeah, and so all that's hard totell where it's going.
(10:47):
But I think there's going to bethis flourishing of of the art
movement and what's happeningnow, but on a much bigger scale,
with these events that Imentioned, and hopefully the mid
tier won't be as eroded as itfeels right now.
It feels like this, this sortof moment where a lot of
collectors are playing it safe,not exactly risking on new
artists all the time.
Um, so I think in in a fewyears that'll change and go back
(11:11):
to, uh, some more of thosevibes of not as tight and and
people, people collecting greatart more for for what it is
right, rather than just to get aquick return For sure.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
And you kind of answer this.
Is there anything you'd like tosee?
Speaker 2 (11:31):
more of in the crypto art space.
More patronage, more truecollectors partnering with
artists to help them evangelizetheir work.
Get it seen in these contexts,like in museums, where it can
really be valued and appreciatedby the public.
I'd like to see more physicaland digital pairings of objects
(11:53):
or crossovers.
There was that really beautifulcrossover from MP Cause
recently.
That was a sculpture that moved, but it was inspired by a
generative output.
So that crossover of mediums iswhat I'm hoping to see more of.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Yeah, yeah, that'd be cool, that'd be awesome.
Does supply matter?
Matter at all, you mean well,you know it'd be interesting.
So I'd like to hear yourthoughts on supply in your
thoughts of how much you releaseand then like how you work
additions and one on onestogether and even the physicals
(12:28):
in there.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
So I think supply does matter and I've seen it in
real time in physical anddigital places or collections
where the collection size justfeels way too big or too small
for the demand.
If it's too small, all themarketing is going to be for a
smaller reward than it probablycould have been for the artists
(12:52):
or a smaller community than itcould have been.
My first collection was just 10pieces and I feel like I
sometimes wondered what it wouldhave been like if I had gone a
little bit bigger for my firstcollection.
But I think that you can't gowrong keeping things slow and
steady and tight.
The art is better for it.
Sometimes, when the collectionis too big, sometimes pieces
(13:13):
make it in that just aren't asgood as others and it's very
clear that those could have beencut from the curation.
So I think supply matters inthat way, curation matters and
if you're an artist, it reallydepends on what level you're at.
Because if you're a brand newartist like just getting your
first sales is very importantand you know, don't be too
concerned about supply.
(13:34):
But I also at the same timewouldn't do an edition of 1000
of one of one piece, becausethat's going to be a lot harder
to to grow from right Versuslike starting with some one of
ones or starting with a smalladdition.
So yeah, it matters.
It plays into psychology, whichalso matters.
It drives behavior.
I try not to think about thesethings too much because it takes
(13:55):
me out of the moment.
It takes me out of the creativeheadspace where I want to spend
a lot of my time in.
I get help on some of thesedecisions as well.
I have an advisor that I workwith on drops from time to time,
so I think it matters enoughfor me to have an advisor to
help me with it occasionally.
And pricing you know it's noteasy to find the right combo of
supply and price and thecollection.
(14:18):
But with the physicals I lovescreen printing and traditional
printing methods.
They feel like a lot morespecial than a typical inkjet
print or a plotter.
Drawing is sort of a similarprocess where it just goes like
color by color, puts the inkdown and then switches colors,
does the next color and you getthese really cool overlaps
sometimes and new colors emergebecause of the overlap of inks.
(14:41):
New colors emerge because ofthe overlap of inks and I find
those to be like sculptural in away, because if you really
start to layer it up, you cansee the depth, especially when
you kind of shine the light fromthe side and even using
transparent inks to highlightcertain things.
I just love those additions andI treat them as well as I treat
my one of ones in terms of howthey're shipped and packed, and
(15:01):
they come with a certificate andeverything.
So the the, the physicaladditions are a key part of my,
my practice.
Still, I haven't made, uh, anynew ones this year, but last
year I made some.
The year before I made some andI like to.
In terms of like scheduling, Igot some great advice from Brian
Brinkman about this.
He said every six to eightmonths, do something big, like a
(15:23):
big project or collection, ifyou're ready for it.
Then every one to two months,do something small to kind of
keep your collectors excited andmaybe experiment with a new
medium or a collaboration, and Ithink that cadence works really
well for managing supply.
I don't think about the exactnumbers too often, but I think
(15:44):
he was talking about putting out500 to 1,000 tokens total in a
year, and so making those tokensreally count, whether they're
additions or one-of-ones, issomething that I was thinking
about.
If you're going to put youreffort into something, make sure
that the way that you'rereleasing it is going to attract
attention and add value to it.
Um then, on the other hand, Ihave friends that tell me you
(16:08):
know, all that stuff is noiseand the only thing that matters
this is also in me.
Like the artist in me says, theonly thing that's important is
people's connection to the art,and everything else will sort
itself out.
Uh then it doesn't reallymatter, as long as someone
really resonates with the art.
But having less available workcreates the perception of, oh
(16:35):
wow, this artist is in hotdemand.
So a lot of people like tomanipulate that and I think I
under.
I understand that it's.
It's a part of the game for alot of a lot of us, right, right
that's some good things tothink about, some good advice
from brinkman for sure.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Yeah, thank you for expanding on that.
So a fun one.
If you were an animal, whatwould you be?
Why?
Speaker 2 (17:00):
I just want to add a distinction on that last
question.
Oh yeah, um, because I thinkthe reason I went into detail on
the screen prints and thephysical editions is because I
treat them differently thandigital editions.
Digital editions are usually animage.
Sometimes I use multiple piecesof media to show the process or
show you know, and I just thinkthat the physical editions,
they, have a lot more love andcare and also like money put
(17:23):
into the process.
So I think about those as likea separate tier than digital
editions.
I don't usually sell themtogether.
The piece is usually betterviewed physical or digital and a
lot of times my digital workI'll just do an inkjet print
because the screen printing isimpossible, there's too many
colors, et cetera.
But yeah, I think that's aninteresting note is like you can
make additions but go premiumon the physical and it sits in
(17:47):
its own tier, right, separatefrom maybe some larger digital
editions that are just forgrowing the community.
Um, okay, so what?
Speaker 1 (17:56):
was the next question , sorry, yeah, no, no, I like
that approach.
Um, it definitely.
Um is appreciated when you geta nice piece, a physical piece.
I love it getting that physicalpiece, opening it up and frying
(18:18):
a little bit sometimes when youdon't have space on the wall,
but I love it.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
I love looking at these pieces because it is
really something and it'sdifferent to see it in person
and have that of my physicalwall of some friends pieces um
all really meaningful to me forsure, sure, yeah dude.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Yeah, so it was.
If you were an animal, whatwould you be and why?
Speaker 2 (18:46):
okay, this is.
I have a good answer for thisbecause I was thinking about it.
I saw a video recently of aturtle okay on a on a miniature
tech deck skateboard and it wason a wood floor and and as soon
as he was placed on theskateboard he was able to use
his turtle arms and legs to likepush off the floor, so he was
(19:06):
going like super fast.
So call it fast turtle or speedturtle.
I would be that because I thinkthe contrast is what makes it
funny and what makes lifeinteresting too nice, all right,
perfect.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
That's a good one.
Do you have a favorite food?
Speaker 2 (19:30):
I really love new york pizza, uh, but I've been
searching for the perfect one,oh.
In addition, I just love sushi.
Anything japanese food is my,my jam.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
So pizza and sushi, it's I mean those are two good
combos.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Yeah, can't go wrong yeah, and I don't I don't mess
with like too many crazytoppings on the pizza either.
I just like a good balance ofcheese and tomato sauce and
maybe a little bit of extratomato on top or a little extra
cheese on top.
Yeah, but the crust, I think,is where it's at and people
don't people outside new yorkdon't really understand that, so
sorry for them.
Maybe outside of certain, Imean, there's exceptions, italy,
(20:07):
you know, but I think, yeah, Ifeel very, very spoiled with
that here.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
What's the best piece of advice you've been given, or
do you have like a mantra thatis in your head?
You kind of live by?
Speaker 2 (20:22):
I have a lot of different mantras, that kind of
sit with me for a season andthen they come and go.
Yeah, but the one that justcame to me when you said that
was very simple.
It's just two words let go.
And it's tied to an experiencewhere I went on this retreat.
Uh, it was like a craft retreatin mexico where we went around
(20:45):
and we got to like see all thesetraditional crafts people and
hear their stories, see theirprocess, even for like making
things from from very, very rawmaterials, and at the end of the
day we had done this clayworkshop and I was standing in a
circle it was mostly women andthere and one of the women just
kept repeating that phrase inSpanish suelte, suelte, let, let
(21:07):
go, let go.
And there was a fire in themiddle, and so that's tied to
that experience for me.
So that's the one that came upHelps me let go of all the stuff
I don't need to keep with me,and the stress any second
guessing of things oroverthinking it always applies
in the situation that I'm in.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Right, you have.
Would this be the same advicefor artists joining the crypto
art space?
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Yeah, I mean that advice does apply Let go of what
you expect, Let go ofexpectations, let go of what you
see yourself as like the ego.
Letting go of a lot of thingshas served me well in this
journey, but if I had to add anymore advice, I would say find
(21:56):
the communities that you'rereally passionate about.
That you can connect withothers and it helps make this
roller coaster a lot more funand a lot more bearable, because
it is a roller coaster evenwithout the web 3 aspect.
Making art is a roller coasterand this adds a whole faster
dynamic to it and a lot of moreuh information coming at you.
(22:17):
So find the communities whereyou like the pace.
It's just the same thing whenyou go to school, like you end
up going to this, these, uh,these events and you end up
seeing the same people around atthe events and you're like okay
, this, this is the communitythat I'm a part of.
It's like tribes in this space,for sure.
And don't feel like you have tobe in every single community,
because for a while I think Iwas really trying to.
(22:39):
I had so many different likeDiscord channels that I was
trying to stay up to date withand I wanted to build community
everywhere because it felt likeone giant community.
And after a while you realize,like you know, you got to figure
out like your top three andmaybe your top one that you
really want to contribute to ifyou're not starting your own
Right, but it is a lot easier tojoin one than it is to start
your own.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
Right, for sure, discord man, yeah Crazy place oh
.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
I still got my Discord going.
Well, that's good you guys dotoo, right?
Yeah, I pop in there.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Yeah, yeah, definitely do so if you could
live or move anywhere, wherewould you live and why?
Speaker 2 (23:22):
so when I was younger , I always wanted to live in
barcelona and, yeah, it was oneof those things where I grew up
skateboarding and watching skatevideos.
I still skate not as much asI'd like to but I always wanted
to live there for theskateboarding spots, because
it's just built into the city.
There's a beach next to thecity, which I love.
(23:43):
That vibe, kind of like a morecondensed version of LA.
So, yeah, barcelona.
I also feel like I just did thatresidency in Rio de Janeiro and
that's another city that has,like the beach and city tropical
vibe, although I don't Iactually don't speak either of
the languages like Catalan orPortuguese that are not in my
(24:03):
vocabulary.
I can speak Spanish.
That kind of gets me by, uh,but I'd love to live in one of
those coastal cities and andjust do a bunch of extreme
sports.
If, really, if, uh, if I wasjust just like, didn't have to
worry about running a studio andhaving a business, I would just
go live over there.
I guess I could do both, but itfeels like I would just be out
in the ocean all the time orlike out skating all the time,
(24:24):
right for sure do you have anyquestions for me?
Yeah, I would love to know justwhat was one highlight for you
this year that you really didn'texpect to happen, like it was
unplanned.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
Oh well, I mean just, or since starting, click Create
.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
Oh, since right Well.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
I guess I could give at least one that's not related
to click create, which is the,the hash mark piece that I got
on secondary.
They got lost in the mail andthen made its way back to me,
which was kind of crazy.
Uh, that was awesome, totallyunexpected.
(25:12):
Um, like I didn't expect anyeven that to be on a secondary
market for me to even get that,so that was awesome.
And just for it to randomly getlost and then show up online.
People end up getting it.
That was awesome, um yeah, Isaw that.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
I can imagine like someone finding that on the side
of the road and just being likewhat is this thing?
It looks so not like somethingthat is tied to an art project,
if you just see it out ofnowhere.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
Right, right, I'd be like oh, it's a cool piece of
metal.
I'm like no idea I'd throw iton my shelf or something.
Where would you start to look?
to look like I'm surprised well,that's why you had the hash on
the back right yeah, there is ahash on the back, but like,
that's true, but the neighborlike, or whoever found it was
(26:06):
just like what happened, to postit in their like Facebook
neighborhood thing.
And then some other person waslike, oh, I think I know what
that is so.
So, yeah, it was just peoplehaving to be, you know, like a
good Samaritan and like, lookfor a return on it, find the
owner Really cool, pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
Yeah, makes you give you some hope.
Yeah, for sure, those storiesneed to circulate more.
I feel like the the negativestories end up drowning out the
positive stories, like that.
Uh, just because our brainsprocess negativity differently
and it's like you need 10 timesthe amount of positivity or
something to right to balance it.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
yeah, for sure.
Uh, man, with click, clickcreate um, I don't know man, it
just um.
You know we had, you know what?
We had a couple curators thathad to back out last minute, and
so I stepped in for one ofthose months and managed to make
(27:09):
it happen in an unknowncollector did, and those turned
those two months turned out tobe really good, solid months.
We really enjoyed them.
We had a great time with theartists, so that was a nice
surprise that you know wasunexpected and unplanned.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Loved it yeah, shout out to unknown collector.
I like their telegram that theydo, where it's just a read only
and they just post art, oh,yeah and uh.
It's just always finding gemsand sharing them that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
Yeah, he's a good guy .
Good guy for sure.
Glad he is in the space, forsure definitely a good one.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
Here's another question for you um, who are you
interviewing upcoming thatyou're excited about?
Speaker 1 (27:59):
Oh man, joke's on you .
Man, I only have like none inthe works right now.
Like you're like the last onefor right now.
Um, I have to get morescheduled.
Uh, I did just before youinterview already hands, so that
was pretty fun.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Cool, cool.
Yeah, I don't know them toowell, but they just did a docs
episode, right yeah with og.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Yeah, like I think that was a week ago, maybe two
weeks ago, but yeah that was fun.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
Yeah, speaking of og, I got to see his place a couple
weeks ago.
I was out, uh, yeah, in that,in that neck of the woods.
My partner's family lives outin northern california but
specific spots and we're alwaysjust like running around seeing
her family because it's prettybig uh.
But I did get a chance to meetup with og and blake jameson and
(28:48):
some see his place.
It's beautiful yeah nice, Ihaven't.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
I haven't even been to his spot.
Um, he's invited me over a fewtimes, but I'm like man, I got
kids and I'm watching them, soit's a little bit hard to get
out.
It's a little bit of a drive toget to where you are.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
Well, man, I commend you for doing everything that
you do while also raising kidsand yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Yeah, thanks, yeah, it's, I mean, yeah, it mean,
yeah, it's, it's hard, but also,you know, you just gotta,
certain days are for this,certain days are for that,
certain hours for this, certainhours for that.
That's gotta do it.
Yep, you have any otherquestions.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
Did you ever expect, did you ever expect, that you'd
be interviewing artists andcollecting like you do and
distributing art like you do?
Speaker 1 (29:38):
No, definitely not no , I don't even know why.
Like it was so weird, like Iwas talking to artists in 21,
and for some reason I'm like Ifeel like I should be like
talking to them and recording it, talking to them and recording
(29:59):
it and I wanted a more of astructured type podcast, because
I'm not great at like the longform type of thing.
So I felt like, yeah, I shoulddo a podcast, set amount of
questions, have it a relativelyshort form and I think it'd be
cool to document stuff.
And I don't know why, becauseearlier that year I probably
wouldn't have done the samething you could do.
But here I am, like three yearslater, still doing it.
(30:22):
So it's been great.
I don't know, it's just thisrandom thing that happened and
I've been enjoying it.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Nice man.
There was a flip side to theother question that I wanted to
ask you, so I asked you thehighlight of the year so far.
Nice man, there was a flip sideto the other question that I
wanted to ask you, um, so Iasked you the highlight of the
year so far.
What's been the biggestchallenge this year beyond like
just managing all the roles thatyou manage?
Speaker 1 (30:45):
the challenge?
Well, you know, I mean thechallenge is it's slow.
Uh well, the market like isslow so it feels boring to a lot
of people and so kind of getpeople involved.
Sometimes it's hard.
That's been a challenge like,especially like when you're
(31:07):
recruiting people and stuff.
Like people a lot of peopledon't want to drop art right now
because they feel it's notgoing to sell.
And so you're just like, hey,you know, it's all right, it's
going to do.
Fine, don't, don't have to holdyour art in until market is
(31:28):
something else, Just, and that's.
And that brings it to adifferent point, which kind of
off the?
I don't know if it's on topic,maybe it is.
And that brings it to adifferent point, which kind of
off topic.
I don't know if it's on topic,maybe it is.
But that's the whole thing ofthe blockchain and the
provenance.
I think it's cool that you canmint something when it's ready
for viewing.
(31:49):
It doesn't have to go to sale.
That's part of the blockchain.
You did this.
You can timestamp when youactually finished it, and I
think more people should takeadvantage of that, regardless if
you list it for sale or not.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
yeah, yeah, yeah, I was hanging out at a conference
this year and I saw richard frommanifold and he was asking me
like how do we get people tomint more?
Because, like they should beminting as they're making the
art, not just when it's readyfor sale, uh-huh.
And he was asking me like howdo we get people to mint more?
Because, like they should beminting as they're making the
art, not just when it's readyfor sale, uh-huh.
And he was asking me for myopinion.
It's a really good question.
Uh, because it'spsychologically.
You see, the successful projectsright now a lot of them have
(32:26):
big marketing campaigns.
Uh, for one of one it'sdifferent, for a small edition
it's different.
But for anything that's like aconsiderable project or drop, it
takes effort and blood, sweatand tears to promote it.
And if you're not ready to doall that let's say you're
working on a few other projectsit's tempting to just like, not
(32:47):
mint it, move on to your otherprojects, come back around and
then, like, you feel totallydifferently about the art at
that point.
And then you feel totallydifferently about the art at
that point and it's harder astime goes on actually to finish
certain things in this space,because if you're not minting
them as you go or minting somekind of work in progress as you
go, because you're sort of offthe hook, no one knows about it.
But once it's on chain, onceyou start sharing the works in
(33:08):
progress, you can build theexpectation that this is what I
do right before I drop somethingand build that excitement, and
I think that's it's cool to seeeveryone do it in their own way,
because not everyone makesvideos, not everyone wants to
show their face, but they havedifferent ways of getting the
art into the culture, whetherit's through memes or contests
(33:29):
or or um partnering with clickcreate, and that you guys do
those great spotlight videoswith interviews, thanks, yeah,
that's another thing I'm lovingabout this time is just the
quality of the art I think isgoing in all directions,
including up right, uh, you knowthere was a.
I read something recently thatsaid the only thing that this
(33:52):
new ai boom has contributed tois lowering of our expectations
for art, because if the artistdoesn't have to go through the
blood, sweat and tears ofcreating it with their hands or
even digitally, with code or insome other digital way, they can
(34:12):
just prompt it.
You know it does have thateffect.
But, on the other hand, thepeople who are discerning the
collectors and the platforms whoare trying to curate a really
good taste.
The work's getting better.
I think the quality is goingway up and it forces us to get
more serious about what we'redoing and trying to make more of
a statement.
(34:32):
And if you only come out withone drop in the whole year, it's
going to be a better dropversus 2021, when it felt like
you just get it out, you knowthat people are going to buy it
because it's an nft.
Now it's like what do I reallyhave to say and what do I want
to put on on chain?
I mean, that wasn't really howI felt, but that was how it felt
like watching the timeline goby and I was like I didn't
(34:56):
resonate with it.
I had to.
I was suffering that in thattime, actually, I was like
trying to understand like whichpace I was comfortable with
right and how big of a communityI wanted to build and all that
stuff.
A lot of it forces you to ask alot of really good questions to
yourself, which I really love,because if it's permanent, you
got to really think through itFor sure.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
Yeah, and that's a good point, Like this time that
we've been in the last year ortwo.
You know people are puttingthought into it finally and
considering what they are doing.
It definitely was a free fallin 21.
Do you have any other questions?
Speaker 2 (35:40):
I want to keep it going for a little longer.
If you're down, I don't haveany specific questions, yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
The next thing would be if you have any projects that
you're working on that you'dlike to discuss, people to know
about what you do.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Yeah, so I like to work on a lot of projects at
once, so I'll just share thethings that are kind of coming
up soon.
So I just finished up an artresidency at All Ships where I
was hanging out at the All Shipshouse making some art and I
made a few things for All Shipsjust for fun.
(36:15):
But I'm going to be displayingthat piece at the end of this
month at the Canal Street show,which is a part of the
subjective art fair.
It's a Loom Studios LoomStudios event in downtown New
York and they're taking overlike all the floors and we have
the second floor for our CanalStreet show, which is the show
(36:35):
that I've been curating the lastcouple years, co-curating.
It's a really fun project.
We get different curators andartists to take a screen and
then they get to use it how theysee fit within a broader theme
and then we have some specialexhibitions in there.
So that's really fun coming upat the end of the month in
September in New York.
But beyond that I'm working ontwo collections.
(36:56):
I've been working on them forlike forever, but they're set to
launch before the end of theyear.
So at least one of them beforethe end of the year?
I don't know.
I just I love looking at theworld through that lens and then
finding that's what I've beenbuilding both of these
collections around.
It's just like the way that Isee the world, abstracted to the
point where the viewer can puttheir own experiences onto it
(37:21):
and not be swayed.
Whether it's like a happy pieceor a sad piece, it's like it's.
It's usually pretty upliftingcolor palette, but there's
always a bit of melancholy in mywork.
I think when it's too sweetit's boring.
So both of the collections havethat kind of vibe.
There's a lot of gaps to befilled in by the viewer, which I
love.
Yeah, is that the last questionin the interview?
(37:45):
Yeah, that is it.
Man, that was a great episode.
Yeah, it was awesome, greatconversation.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
Thank you so much for coming on the show and
discussing questions, giving ussome insight about you and what
you do.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
I appreciate it.
Yeah, thank you for doing these.
It's really amazing to havepeople like you want to know the
stories behind the things thatwe make and meet the people.
I've loved listening to yourpast episodes, so excited to see
this one out there Awesome.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
Thank you so much.
I hope you have a great day.
We'll talk soon.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
You too, man have a good one, peace who is this?
Speaker 1 (38:24):
Who is this guy?
Who is this guy?
Who is this guy?
Who is?
Speaker 2 (38:29):
this guy?
Who is this guy?
Norcal guy?
This guy.
Who is this?
Who is this guy?
Who is this guy?
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Who is this guy?
Norcal guy.
Norcal guy.
Norcal guy.
Norcal guy.
Norcal guy.
Norcal guy.
Norcal guy.
Norcal guy.
Norcal and chill podcast.
So it's chill time.
Norcal and chill podcast.
What the sh-, what the sh-?
Norcal and chill podcast.
What the sh-, what the sh-?
Norcal and Shill Podcast.
So it's Shill time.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
NorCal and Shill Podcast what the sh what the sh-
.
Welcome everyone to anotherepisode of NorCal and Shill.
Today we're diving deep intothe future of digital and crypto
art with our special guest, thetalented FDOT.
Digital and crypto art with ourspecial guest, the talented
FDOT.
Join us as we explore FDOT'svisionary outlook on digital art
(00:50):
exhibitions, the evolvinglandscape of the crypto art
space and the delicate balancebetween art supply and demand.
Discover how FDOT navigatesphysical and digital additions,
shares insights from hiscreative journey and emphasizes
community and genuine connectionover economic gains.
(01:10):
We'll also touch on hisexperimental projects and his
inspirations from ancient art.
Plus, we'll hear amusinganecdotes, favorite foods and
mantras that keep him grounded.
This episode promises to be acompelling mix of reflective
insights and forward-thinkingideas.
Tune in for an engagingconversation you won't want to
(01:31):
miss Everybody.
Please welcome FDOT.
Hey, FDOT, welcome to thepodcast.
How you doing today.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Yo, what's going on, man?
Good to see you Doing welltoday.
How about you?
What's?
Speaker 1 (01:44):
going on, man, good to see you Doing well today.
How about you Good?
Good, it's a nice day, you know, starting to cool off, just a
little bit Bearable outside andfamily's doing good, nothing to
complain about.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
So life is good and I get to chat with you now, nice
man, yeah, nowhere.
I'd rather be right now on thisend of summer New York, york
days than just hanging out withNorCal and chill.
So thanks for having me on.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Yeah, my pleasure, my pleasure, but I guess just
jumping right in.
Uh, what were your firstthoughts when you heard about
this digital art, this NFT space?
Speaker 2 (02:22):
My first thoughts when I heard about the digital
art NFT space.
I think I was always attractedto digital art because it was a
part of my process, even forphysical art, like I would do
these large scale murals, and alot of times I was going around
with my phone taking pictures ofwalls and capturing the walls
and then drawing digitally overthem on my iPad.
(02:43):
So when I found out that peoplewere collecting digital art on
the block chain and having likesort of treating it as physical
art is treated with with value,with care, with scarcity of
certain items, like that wasjust really interesting to me
because I knew I had thisbacklog of work that I didn't
know how to share or or to getsort of the right eyes on and to
(03:09):
value it.
So that was really interesting.
I was a little bit confused,cause there was just so much
happening in 2021 when I firstsaw it and I wasn't real already
into crypto, so I was alsoconfused by that.
Oh yeah, so I had to learn theropes.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
No, that's fair.
That's fair.
There's a lot to to man.
It's a lot to that hits you allat once when you just jump
right in.
So why did you have anyexperiences with that like?
Speaker 2 (03:36):
advice for that.
Yeah, there was just peoplecollecting things that didn't
really feel like art to me.
So I was really like what'sgoing on?
What's the motivator?
Is it just a quick get in, getout kind of thing where people
are investing and flipping, oris there some real patronage
going on?
Is there a bit of a mix?
What about the auctions versusthe larger drops and the
(03:59):
projects?
I couldn't really draw the linebetween a project and an art
collection at the time becausethere weren't enough examples
for me, so I was just trying to.
I was on Clubhouse, listeningin, learning the ropes of how
the tech worked and why to docertain things over others, and
a lot of hype and BS as well,just like trying to sift through
(04:19):
that.
Find the good people, goodtimes Good times.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
So what brought you to?
Speaker 2 (04:28):
art.
Well, I think I was alwayscreative.
As a kid, I was always wantingto stay late in art class, and
my grandmother herself was anartist, so she always would buy
me books and supplies for theholidays.
Really, really grateful forthat, because if I didn't have
that early influence, I don'tthink I would be as comfortable
doing the mediums that I dotoday or the ones I've been
(04:49):
focusing on over the last decadeor so.
Um, and then at a certain pointin the United States, your
parents sometimes pressure youto going into college, and so
choosing a major was somethingthat you kind of have to do at
the end of high school and, uh,and I wanted to do art,
something art related.
My father kind of pushed meinto graphic design, felt like
(05:12):
it was more of a marketableskill, but I always held on to
art being my main motivator fordoing that, and I loved every
single art class that I took inthat college and outside, so it
just felt like that was thenatural thing to pursue.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Sure, I like that.
Did you do any grunge jobsalong the way, like in high
school, right after high school?
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Different kinds of jobs.
Yeah, I worked at an ice creamshop for a while.
I worked at a pizza shop for awhile.
Those were the two main onesthat I did, yeah I like the ice
cream shop, because my bestfriend worked there, so we were
always just like getting intotrouble and going downstairs and
like making our own flavors andeating way too much ice cream.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Yeah, that's awesome it's always great when you work
with a friend, someone you canlike hate the job with or enjoy
the job with.
I mean it's kind of like awin-win Either hate it together,
love it together, but you havea good time together.
That's what matters.
What do you like best aboutWeb3 today?
Speaker 2 (06:13):
What do I like best about Web3 today?
I really love the connectednessthat there is across the
network that I'm a part of,which is mainly Ethereum, like I
love that you can put art outthere and it just automatically
populates in many, manydifferent places, many different
(06:34):
platforms, and sometimesthere's even a bot that tweets
it after you mint it, and it'slike people are wanting to share
art in this time, and I likethat.
This is a very efficient way todo it just to share it.
Get it out there in more places, not just in this black hole of
, like one social media app or aportfolio website.
So that's the first thing, andthen the other one I really feel
(06:56):
like in New York City right now, there's a community forming
around art and digital art andWeb3, curious people, and I just
really like the people thatI've met.
There's brilliant minds flockingto this technology, even in
this slower period compared to2021.
And I can feel like energy justbuilding around those few
(07:17):
hundred people that stuck around, right, right, a few hundred
people I feel like in New Yorkthat I've like crossed paths
with, specifically, oh, wow,yeah, a few hundred people I
feel like in new york that I'velike crossed paths with,
specifically, oh, wow, yeah, wow.
I mean not all living in newyork, but I feel like it's.
It's a hub.
We have a show coming up, we'redoing these, there's a culture
around it and I feel like beforeweb3, I didn't, I couldn't, I
(07:37):
didn't fit into the new york artscene, I didn't have a gallery,
I didn't have people organizingevents where I was be featured
or where I could curate, and itjust it wasn't there.
And now there's real supportfor that, there's infrastructure
for that being built, wow.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Well, that's good to hear.
Yeah, because I'm not involved.
I mean, I see, like I guess itwould be mainly through
Instagram, like the meetups hereand there in New York from like
either your feed or like OVECor someone along those lines Red
Beard.
So, yeah, it's good because itdoes definitely seems like New
(08:14):
York is the one place that thereare consistent meetups and
there are consistent artists, agroup of people getting together
and doing things, which isreally awesome, because I I
don't, I haven't seen thatanywhere else currently I think
it's happening in la with irlalpha.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
oh yeah, then there's , yeah, yeah, there's a few
other cities that have acommunity um starting to form.
Excuse me, um, the yeah, it'sjust smaller.
I think new New York has thehighest concentration of people
who want to do events, because Ithink in some cities people are
just homebodies, especially inthe north, like as, as you go in
(08:52):
the Midwest, this is not asmuch as many events going on.
Uh, even in NorCal, like, I wasout there this summer and I met
some artists, but there weren'tlike events happening, right,
right For sure.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Definitely not so, but there weren't like events
happening Right right For sure.
Definitely not so.
Where do you see digital art infive years?
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Well, I was talking to my friend the other day about
how Rafiq Anadol's piece in theMoMA made a pretty big impact
here in New York inconversations at least, feeling
like there was a ripple effect,wondering how many more of those
moments it's going to takebefore people can not hear the
words Web3 or tokenized art andjust think of the sort of scammy
(09:40):
stuff that gets headlines.
It's going to take moreexhibitions that are on that
level, or just highly curatedmoments that the public can come
in and see.
So I think that's going tocontinue to happen at places
like the Whitney, the New Museum, these sort of more
forward-thinking art museums inNew York and then beyond there's
(10:02):
a bunch of new museums openingup as well.
So in five years I thinkthere'll be more of those
exhibits and museums and it'llbe treated just a little bit
more like a real art medium thanit is today.
For me in my practice I ammessing around with different
types of digital art.
So first it was procreate, justdrawing digitally, and then
(10:24):
like photo editing.
Now I'm messing around withgenerative and playing with AI.
Really can't tell where thatone's going to go, because
there's all these lawsuits inthe works right now that might
be completely banned in fiveyears in terms of, like, using
Midjourney's pool of images thatthey just sort of scraped, oh
yeah, and so all that's hard totell where it's going.
(10:47):
But I think there's going to bethis flourishing of of the art
movement and what's happeningnow, but on a much bigger scale,
with these events that Imentioned, and hopefully the mid
tier won't be as eroded as itfeels right now.
It feels like this, this sortof moment where a lot of
collectors are playing it safe,not exactly risking on new
artists all the time.
Um, so I think in in a fewyears that'll change and go back
(11:11):
to, uh, some more of thosevibes of not as tight and and
people, people collecting greatart more for for what it is
right, rather than just to get aquick return For sure.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
And you kind of answer this.
Is there anything you'd like tosee?
Speaker 2 (11:31):
more of in the crypto art space.
More patronage, more truecollectors partnering with
artists to help them evangelizetheir work.
Get it seen in these contexts,like in museums, where it can
really be valued and appreciatedby the public.
I'd like to see more physicaland digital pairings of objects
(11:53):
or crossovers.
There was that really beautifulcrossover from MP Cause
recently.
That was a sculpture that moved, but it was inspired by a
generative output.
So that crossover of mediums iswhat I'm hoping to see more of.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Yeah, yeah, that'd be cool, that'd be awesome.
Does supply matter?
Matter at all, you mean well,you know it'd be interesting.
So I'd like to hear yourthoughts on supply in your
thoughts of how much you releaseand then like how you work
additions and one on onestogether and even the physicals
(12:28):
in there.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
So I think supply does matter and I've seen it in
real time in physical anddigital places or collections
where the collection size justfeels way too big or too small
for the demand.
If it's too small, all themarketing is going to be for a
smaller reward than it probablycould have been for the artists
(12:52):
or a smaller community than itcould have been.
My first collection was just 10pieces and I feel like I
sometimes wondered what it wouldhave been like if I had gone a
little bit bigger for my firstcollection.
But I think that you can't gowrong keeping things slow and
steady and tight.
The art is better for it.
Sometimes, when the collectionis too big, sometimes pieces
(13:13):
make it in that just aren't asgood as others and it's very
clear that those could have beencut from the curation.
So I think supply matters inthat way, curation matters and
if you're an artist, it reallydepends on what level you're at.
Because if you're a brand newartist like just getting your
first sales is very importantand you know, don't be too
concerned about supply.
(13:34):
But I also at the same timewouldn't do an edition of 1000
of one of one piece, becausethat's going to be a lot harder
to to grow from right Versuslike starting with some one of
ones or starting with a smalladdition.
So yeah, it matters.
It plays into psychology, whichalso matters.
It drives behavior.
I try not to think about thesethings too much because it takes
(13:55):
me out of the moment.
It takes me out of the creativeheadspace where I want to spend
a lot of my time in.
I get help on some of thesedecisions as well.
I have an advisor that I workwith on drops from time to time,
so I think it matters enoughfor me to have an advisor to
help me with it occasionally.
And pricing you know it's noteasy to find the right combo of
supply and price and thecollection.
(14:18):
But with the physicals I lovescreen printing and traditional
printing methods.
They feel like a lot morespecial than a typical inkjet
print or a plotter.
Drawing is sort of a similarprocess where it just goes like
color by color, puts the inkdown and then switches colors,
does the next color and you getthese really cool overlaps
sometimes and new colors emergebecause of the overlap of inks.
(14:41):
New colors emerge because ofthe overlap of inks and I find
those to be like sculptural in away, because if you really
start to layer it up, you cansee the depth, especially when
you kind of shine the light fromthe side and even using
transparent inks to highlightcertain things.
I just love those additions andI treat them as well as I treat
my one of ones in terms of howthey're shipped and packed, and
(15:01):
they come with a certificate andeverything.
So the the, the physicaladditions are a key part of my,
my practice.
Still, I haven't made, uh, anynew ones this year, but last
year I made some.
The year before I made some andI like to.
In terms of like scheduling, Igot some great advice from Brian
Brinkman about this.
He said every six to eightmonths, do something big, like a
(15:23):
big project or collection, ifyou're ready for it.
Then every one to two months,do something small to kind of
keep your collectors excited andmaybe experiment with a new
medium or a collaboration, and Ithink that cadence works really
well for managing supply.
I don't think about the exactnumbers too often, but I think
(15:44):
he was talking about putting out500 to 1,000 tokens total in a
year, and so making those tokensreally count, whether they're
additions or one-of-ones, issomething that I was thinking
about.
If you're going to put youreffort into something, make sure
that the way that you'rereleasing it is going to attract
attention and add value to it.
Um then, on the other hand, Ihave friends that tell me you
(16:08):
know, all that stuff is noiseand the only thing that matters
this is also in me.
Like the artist in me says, theonly thing that's important is
people's connection to the art,and everything else will sort
itself out.
Uh then it doesn't reallymatter, as long as someone
really resonates with the art.
But having less available workcreates the perception of, oh
(16:35):
wow, this artist is in hotdemand.
So a lot of people like tomanipulate that and I think I
under.
I understand that it's.
It's a part of the game for alot of a lot of us, right, right
that's some good things tothink about, some good advice
from brinkman for sure.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Yeah, thank you for expanding on that.
So a fun one.
If you were an animal, whatwould you be?
Why?
Speaker 2 (17:00):
I just want to add a distinction on that last
question.
Oh yeah, um, because I thinkthe reason I went into detail on
the screen prints and thephysical editions is because I
treat them differently thandigital editions.
Digital editions are usually animage.
Sometimes I use multiple piecesof media to show the process or
show you know, and I just thinkthat the physical editions,
they, have a lot more love andcare and also like money put
(17:23):
into the process.
So I think about those as likea separate tier than digital
editions.
I don't usually sell themtogether.
The piece is usually betterviewed physical or digital and a
lot of times my digital workI'll just do an inkjet print
because the screen printing isimpossible, there's too many
colors, et cetera.
But yeah, I think that's aninteresting note is like you can
make additions but go premiumon the physical and it sits in
(17:47):
its own tier, right, separatefrom maybe some larger digital
editions that are just forgrowing the community.
Um, okay, so what?
Speaker 1 (17:56):
was the next question , sorry, yeah, no, no, I like
that approach.
Um, it definitely.
Um is appreciated when you geta nice piece, a physical piece.
I love it getting that physicalpiece, opening it up and frying
(18:18):
a little bit sometimes when youdon't have space on the wall,
but I love it.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
I love looking at these pieces because it is
really something and it'sdifferent to see it in person
and have that of my physicalwall of some friends pieces um
all really meaningful to me forsure, sure, yeah dude.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Yeah, so it was.
If you were an animal, whatwould you be and why?
Speaker 2 (18:46):
okay, this is.
I have a good answer for thisbecause I was thinking about it.
I saw a video recently of aturtle okay on a on a miniature
tech deck skateboard and it wason a wood floor and and as soon
as he was placed on theskateboard he was able to use
his turtle arms and legs to likepush off the floor, so he was
(19:06):
going like super fast.
So call it fast turtle or speedturtle.
I would be that because I thinkthe contrast is what makes it
funny and what makes lifeinteresting too nice, all right,
perfect.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
That's a good one.
Do you have a favorite food?
Speaker 2 (19:30):
I really love new york pizza, uh, but I've been
searching for the perfect one,oh.
In addition, I just love sushi.
Anything japanese food is my,my jam.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
So pizza and sushi, it's I mean those are two good
combos.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Yeah, can't go wrong yeah, and I don't I don't mess
with like too many crazytoppings on the pizza either.
I just like a good balance ofcheese and tomato sauce and
maybe a little bit of extratomato on top or a little extra
cheese on top.
Yeah, but the crust, I think,is where it's at and people
don't people outside new yorkdon't really understand that, so
sorry for them.
Maybe outside of certain, Imean, there's exceptions, italy,
(20:07):
you know, but I think, yeah, Ifeel very, very spoiled with
that here.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
What's the best piece of advice you've been given, or
do you have like a mantra thatis in your head?
You kind of live by?
Speaker 2 (20:22):
I have a lot of different mantras, that kind of
sit with me for a season andthen they come and go.
Yeah, but the one that justcame to me when you said that
was very simple.
It's just two words let go.
And it's tied to an experiencewhere I went on this retreat.
Uh, it was like a craft retreatin mexico where we went around
(20:45):
and we got to like see all thesetraditional crafts people and
hear their stories, see theirprocess, even for like making
things from from very, very rawmaterials, and at the end of the
day we had done this clayworkshop and I was standing in a
circle it was mostly women andthere and one of the women just
kept repeating that phrase inSpanish suelte, suelte, let, let
(21:07):
go, let go.
And there was a fire in themiddle, and so that's tied to
that experience for me.
So that's the one that came upHelps me let go of all the stuff
I don't need to keep with me,and the stress any second
guessing of things oroverthinking it always applies
in the situation that I'm in.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Right, you have.
Would this be the same advicefor artists joining the crypto
art space?
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Yeah, I mean that advice does apply Let go of what
you expect, Let go ofexpectations, let go of what you
see yourself as like the ego.
Letting go of a lot of thingshas served me well in this
journey, but if I had to add anymore advice, I would say find
(21:56):
the communities that you'rereally passionate about.
That you can connect withothers and it helps make this
roller coaster a lot more funand a lot more bearable, because
it is a roller coaster evenwithout the web 3 aspect.
Making art is a roller coasterand this adds a whole faster
dynamic to it and a lot of moreuh information coming at you.
(22:17):
So find the communities whereyou like the pace.
It's just the same thing whenyou go to school, like you end
up going to this, these, uh,these events and you end up
seeing the same people around atthe events and you're like okay
, this, this is the communitythat I'm a part of.
It's like tribes in this space,for sure.
And don't feel like you have tobe in every single community,
because for a while I think Iwas really trying to.
(22:39):
I had so many different likeDiscord channels that I was
trying to stay up to date withand I wanted to build community
everywhere because it felt likeone giant community.
And after a while you realize,like you know, you got to figure
out like your top three andmaybe your top one that you
really want to contribute to ifyou're not starting your own
Right, but it is a lot easier tojoin one than it is to start
your own.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
Right, for sure, discord man, yeah Crazy place oh
.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
I still got my Discord going.
Well, that's good you guys dotoo, right?
Yeah, I pop in there.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Yeah, yeah, definitely do so if you could
live or move anywhere, wherewould you live and why?
Speaker 2 (23:22):
so when I was younger , I always wanted to live in
barcelona and, yeah, it was oneof those things where I grew up
skateboarding and watching skatevideos.
I still skate not as much asI'd like to but I always wanted
to live there for theskateboarding spots, because
it's just built into the city.
There's a beach next to thecity, which I love.
(23:43):
That vibe, kind of like a morecondensed version of LA.
So, yeah, barcelona.
I also feel like I just did thatresidency in Rio de Janeiro and
that's another city that has,like the beach and city tropical
vibe, although I don't Iactually don't speak either of
the languages like Catalan orPortuguese that are not in my
(24:03):
vocabulary.
I can speak Spanish.
That kind of gets me by, uh,but I'd love to live in one of
those coastal cities and andjust do a bunch of extreme
sports.
If, really, if, uh, if I wasjust just like, didn't have to
worry about running a studio andhaving a business, I would just
go live over there.
I guess I could do both, but itfeels like I would just be out
in the ocean all the time orlike out skating all the time,
(24:24):
right for sure do you have anyquestions for me?
Yeah, I would love to know justwhat was one highlight for you
this year that you really didn'texpect to happen, like it was
unplanned.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
Oh well, I mean just, or since starting, click Create
.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
Oh, since right Well.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
I guess I could give at least one that's not related
to click create, which is the,the hash mark piece that I got
on secondary.
They got lost in the mail andthen made its way back to me,
which was kind of crazy.
Uh, that was awesome, totallyunexpected.
(25:12):
Um, like I didn't expect anyeven that to be on a secondary
market for me to even get that,so that was awesome.
And just for it to randomly getlost and then show up online.
People end up getting it.
That was awesome, um yeah, Isaw that.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
I can imagine like someone finding that on the side
of the road and just being likewhat is this thing?
It looks so not like somethingthat is tied to an art project,
if you just see it out ofnowhere.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
Right, right, I'd be like oh, it's a cool piece of
metal.
I'm like no idea I'd throw iton my shelf or something.
Where would you start to look?
to look like I'm surprised well,that's why you had the hash on
the back right yeah, there is ahash on the back, but like,
that's true, but the neighborlike, or whoever found it was
(26:06):
just like what happened, to postit in their like Facebook
neighborhood thing.
And then some other person waslike, oh, I think I know what
that is so.
So, yeah, it was just peoplehaving to be, you know, like a
good Samaritan and like, lookfor a return on it, find the
owner Really cool, pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
Yeah, makes you give you some hope.
Yeah, for sure, those storiesneed to circulate more.
I feel like the the negativestories end up drowning out the
positive stories, like that.
Uh, just because our brainsprocess negativity differently
and it's like you need 10 timesthe amount of positivity or
something to right to balance it.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
yeah, for sure.
Uh, man, with click, clickcreate um, I don't know man, it
just um.
You know we had, you know what?
We had a couple curators thathad to back out last minute, and
so I stepped in for one ofthose months and managed to make
(27:09):
it happen in an unknowncollector did, and those turned
those two months turned out tobe really good, solid months.
We really enjoyed them.
We had a great time with theartists, so that was a nice
surprise that you know wasunexpected and unplanned.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Loved it yeah, shout out to unknown collector.
I like their telegram that theydo, where it's just a read only
and they just post art, oh,yeah and uh.
It's just always finding gemsand sharing them that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
Yeah, he's a good guy .
Good guy for sure.
Glad he is in the space, forsure definitely a good one.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
Here's another question for you um, who are you
interviewing upcoming thatyou're excited about?
Speaker 1 (27:59):
Oh man, joke's on you .
Man, I only have like none inthe works right now.
Like you're like the last onefor right now.
Um, I have to get morescheduled.
Uh, I did just before youinterview already hands, so that
was pretty fun.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Cool, cool.
Yeah, I don't know them toowell, but they just did a docs
episode, right yeah with og.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Yeah, like I think that was a week ago, maybe two
weeks ago, but yeah that was fun.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
Yeah, speaking of og, I got to see his place a couple
weeks ago.
I was out, uh, yeah, in that,in that neck of the woods.
My partner's family lives outin northern california but
specific spots and we're alwaysjust like running around seeing
her family because it's prettybig uh.
But I did get a chance to meetup with og and blake jameson and
(28:48):
some see his place.
It's beautiful yeah nice, Ihaven't.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
I haven't even been to his spot.
Um, he's invited me over a fewtimes, but I'm like man, I got
kids and I'm watching them, soit's a little bit hard to get
out.
It's a little bit of a drive toget to where you are.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
Well, man, I commend you for doing everything that
you do while also raising kidsand yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Yeah, thanks, yeah, it's, I mean, yeah, it mean,
yeah, it's, it's hard, but also,you know, you just gotta,
certain days are for this,certain days are for that,
certain hours for this, certainhours for that.
That's gotta do it.
Yep, you have any otherquestions.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
Did you ever expect, did you ever expect, that you'd
be interviewing artists andcollecting like you do and
distributing art like you do?
Speaker 1 (29:38):
No, definitely not no , I don't even know why.
Like it was so weird, like Iwas talking to artists in 21,
and for some reason I'm like Ifeel like I should be like
talking to them and recording it, talking to them and recording
(29:59):
it and I wanted a more of astructured type podcast, because
I'm not great at like the longform type of thing.
So I felt like, yeah, I shoulddo a podcast, set amount of
questions, have it a relativelyshort form and I think it'd be
cool to document stuff.
And I don't know why, becauseearlier that year I probably
wouldn't have done the samething you could do.
But here I am, like three yearslater, still doing it.
(30:22):
So it's been great.
I don't know, it's just thisrandom thing that happened and
I've been enjoying it.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Nice man.
There was a flip side to theother question that I wanted to
ask you, so I asked you thehighlight of the year so far.
Nice man, there was a flip sideto the other question that I
wanted to ask you, um, so Iasked you the highlight of the
year so far.
What's been the biggestchallenge this year beyond like
just managing all the roles thatyou manage?
Speaker 1 (30:45):
the challenge?
Well, you know, I mean thechallenge is it's slow.
Uh well, the market like isslow so it feels boring to a lot
of people and so kind of getpeople involved.
Sometimes it's hard.
That's been a challenge like,especially like when you're
(31:07):
recruiting people and stuff.
Like people a lot of peopledon't want to drop art right now
because they feel it's notgoing to sell.
And so you're just like, hey,you know, it's all right, it's
going to do.
Fine, don't, don't have to holdyour art in until market is
(31:28):
something else, Just, and that's.
And that brings it to adifferent point, which kind of
off the?
I don't know if it's on topic,maybe it is.
And that brings it to adifferent point, which kind of
off topic.
I don't know if it's on topic,maybe it is.
But that's the whole thing ofthe blockchain and the
provenance.
I think it's cool that you canmint something when it's ready
for viewing.
(31:49):
It doesn't have to go to sale.
That's part of the blockchain.
You did this.
You can timestamp when youactually finished it, and I
think more people should takeadvantage of that, regardless if
you list it for sale or not.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
yeah, yeah, yeah, I was hanging out at a conference
this year and I saw richard frommanifold and he was asking me
like how do we get people tomint more?
Because, like they should beminting as they're making the
art, not just when it's readyfor sale, uh-huh.
And he was asking me like howdo we get people to mint more?
Because, like they should beminting as they're making the
art, not just when it's readyfor sale, uh-huh.
And he was asking me for myopinion.
It's a really good question.
Uh, because it'spsychologically.
You see, the successful projectsright now a lot of them have
(32:26):
big marketing campaigns.
Uh, for one of one it'sdifferent, for a small edition
it's different.
But for anything that's like aconsiderable project or drop, it
takes effort and blood, sweatand tears to promote it.
And if you're not ready to doall that let's say you're
working on a few other projectsit's tempting to just like, not
(32:47):
mint it, move on to your otherprojects, come back around and
then, like, you feel totallydifferently about the art at
that point.
And then you feel totallydifferently about the art at
that point and it's harder astime goes on actually to finish
certain things in this space,because if you're not minting
them as you go or minting somekind of work in progress as you
go, because you're sort of offthe hook, no one knows about it.
But once it's on chain, onceyou start sharing the works in
(33:08):
progress, you can build theexpectation that this is what I
do right before I drop somethingand build that excitement, and
I think that's it's cool to seeeveryone do it in their own way,
because not everyone makesvideos, not everyone wants to
show their face, but they havedifferent ways of getting the
art into the culture, whetherit's through memes or contests
(33:29):
or or um partnering with clickcreate, and that you guys do
those great spotlight videoswith interviews, thanks, yeah,
that's another thing I'm lovingabout this time is just the
quality of the art I think isgoing in all directions,
including up right, uh, you knowthere was a.
I read something recently thatsaid the only thing that this
(33:52):
new ai boom has contributed tois lowering of our expectations
for art, because if the artistdoesn't have to go through the
blood, sweat and tears ofcreating it with their hands or
even digitally, with code or insome other digital way, they can
(34:12):
just prompt it.
You know it does have thateffect.
But, on the other hand, thepeople who are discerning the
collectors and the platforms whoare trying to curate a really
good taste.
The work's getting better.
I think the quality is goingway up and it forces us to get
more serious about what we'redoing and trying to make more of
a statement.
(34:32):
And if you only come out withone drop in the whole year, it's
going to be a better dropversus 2021, when it felt like
you just get it out, you knowthat people are going to buy it
because it's an nft.
Now it's like what do I reallyhave to say and what do I want
to put on on chain?
I mean, that wasn't really howI felt, but that was how it felt
like watching the timeline goby and I was like I didn't
(34:56):
resonate with it.
I had to.
I was suffering that in thattime, actually, I was like
trying to understand like whichpace I was comfortable with
right and how big of a communityI wanted to build and all that
stuff.
A lot of it forces you to ask alot of really good questions to
yourself, which I really love,because if it's permanent, you
got to really think through itFor sure.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
Yeah, and that's a good point, Like this time that
we've been in the last year ortwo.
You know people are puttingthought into it finally and
considering what they are doing.
It definitely was a free fallin 21.
Do you have any other questions?
Speaker 2 (35:40):
I want to keep it going for a little longer.
If you're down, I don't haveany specific questions, yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
The next thing would be if you have any projects that
you're working on that you'dlike to discuss, people to know
about what you do.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Yeah, so I like to work on a lot of projects at
once, so I'll just share thethings that are kind of coming
up soon.
So I just finished up an artresidency at All Ships where I
was hanging out at the All Shipshouse making some art and I
made a few things for All Shipsjust for fun.
(36:15):
But I'm going to be displayingthat piece at the end of this
month at the Canal Street show,which is a part of the
subjective art fair.
It's a Loom Studios LoomStudios event in downtown New
York and they're taking overlike all the floors and we have
the second floor for our CanalStreet show, which is the show
(36:35):
that I've been curating the lastcouple years, co-curating.
It's a really fun project.
We get different curators andartists to take a screen and
then they get to use it how theysee fit within a broader theme
and then we have some specialexhibitions in there.
So that's really fun coming upat the end of the month in
September in New York.
But beyond that I'm working ontwo collections.
(36:56):
I've been working on them forlike forever, but they're set to
launch before the end of theyear.
So at least one of them beforethe end of the year?
I don't know.
I just I love looking at theworld through that lens and then
finding that's what I've beenbuilding both of these
collections around.
It's just like the way that Isee the world, abstracted to the
point where the viewer can puttheir own experiences onto it
(37:21):
and not be swayed.
Whether it's like a happy pieceor a sad piece, it's like it's.
It's usually pretty upliftingcolor palette, but there's
always a bit of melancholy in mywork.
I think when it's too sweetit's boring.
So both of the collections havethat kind of vibe.
There's a lot of gaps to befilled in by the viewer, which I
love.
Yeah, is that the last questionin the interview?
(37:45):
Yeah, that is it.
Man, that was a great episode.
Yeah, it was awesome, greatconversation.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
Thank you so much for coming on the show and
discussing questions, giving ussome insight about you and what
you do.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
I appreciate it.
Yeah, thank you for doing these.
It's really amazing to havepeople like you want to know the
stories behind the things thatwe make and meet the people.
I've loved listening to yourpast episodes, so excited to see
this one out there Awesome.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
Thank you so much.
I hope you have a great day.
We'll talk soon.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
You too, man have a good one, peace who is this?
Speaker 1 (38:24):
Who is this guy?
Who is this guy?
Who is this guy?
Who is?
Speaker 2 (38:29):
this guy?
Who is this guy?
Norcal guy?
This guy.
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