February 27, 2025 • 26 mins
Join us for an insightful exploration with photographer Joey L., who takes us on a captivating journey through his artistic evolution. From an early passion for toy dinosaurs that ignited his creativity to becoming a renowned figure in the photography world, Joey shares the pivotal experiences that shaped his career. With clients such as Jennifer Lawrence and Robert De Niro, he illustrates the delicate balance between commercial success and personal expression in art.
In this episode, we dive deep into the complexities of NFTs, hear Joey's candid thoughts on the emerging digital asset landscape, and understand the significance of fostering personal connections when creating impactful images. Through his storytelling, Joey emphasizes the importance of following one’s long-term vision in an ever-changing industry filled with rapid trends.
As he shares valuable advice for aspiring artists looking to enter the NFT space, listeners are encouraged to appreciate their journey while remaining true to themselves. Joey's humble yet inspiring perspective makes this episode a treasure trove of insights for anyone passionate about art and photography. Don't miss out—tune in to discover what it truly means to forge a unique path in the world of creativity and witness how the art community continues to evolve.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Joey L (00:00):
Who is this?
Who is this guy?
NorCal Guy (00:02):
Who is this guy?
Who is this guy?
Who is this guy?
Who is this guy?
Norcal guy, norcal guy, norcalguy, norcal guy, norcal guy,
norcal guy, norcal guy, norcalguy, norcal and chill podcast
Show.
Joey L (00:18):
It's chill time, norcal and chill podcast.
What the sh.
NorCal Guy (00:30):
What the sh?
Nor hey.
Everyone, welcome to this nextepisode of NorCal and Shill.
Today's guest is Joey L.
Joey is a Canadian-bornphotographer and director based
in Brooklyn, New York, whosework has been consistently
sought out by prominentadvertising clients and features
(00:53):
recognizable faces such asRobert De Niro and Jennifer
Lawrence.
He is known for his curiosityfor different ways of living, as
showcased in his Holy Menseries and annual pilgrimage to
document Halloween in Brooklyn.
Joey maintains a quirky webseries called Dudes with Cameras
(01:14):
and believes that personalconnection to the subjects and
client is key to making an imageresonate.
He recently traveled to theKurdish regions of Iraq and
Syria to document the volunteerfighters of the PKK and YPG in
his new series, guerrillaFighters of Kurdistan.
Joey has been listed as one ofthe most influential
(01:38):
photographers on social mediaand has been named one of the 30
photographers under 30 to watchby Complex Magazine.
Everybody, please welcome Joey.
Hey, joey, Welcome to thepodcast.
How are you doing?
Joey L (01:55):
today.
Hey, I'm doing very good.
My day was going quite normallyand then I received a bid, so
now everything seems more sunnyand rosy than it was five
minutes ago.
NorCal Guy (02:05):
That's awesome, congrats on that I mean
definitely puts a more positivespin on the day.
Joey L (02:13):
It's like, oh, I suddenly believe in this stuff
again.
NorCal Guy (02:18):
It's not a scam anymore.
Yeah, yeah.
No, I know I get that Like withmy that ClickMint Pass project
that I have the like instantcamera, digital camera thing.
Whenever like I post it.
I'm like because I alwaysstarted at 0.069 and then it's
always fun to watch it ramp upand you're like, oh okay, good,
(02:38):
it's doing all right so far.
Increase your conviction andeverything that you've poured
your soul into the last coupleyears right, right and man, I
just gotta give it to the artistbecause I mean that's hard,
especially when you're puttingall day and you're like trying
to make it as your primary, andthat's a lot of work, man, it's
(03:00):
rough.
So do you have a hardwarewallet?
Joey L (03:05):
I do have a hardware wallet.
Our family uses a bunch ofLedger Nanos and I always
thought it would be a very nicefashion accessory, like how they
bling it out, but at the sametime you don't want to get that
thing stolen, so it's probablygood not to flaunt it.
NorCal Guy (03:19):
You just wear a blank one, you just buy one for
the necklace.
Joey L (03:26):
Kind of like to pretend that that's your one and then
your other one is in a veryobvious place.
Yeah, that's a good idea.
NorCal Guy (03:31):
Okay, I'm gonna start doing that yeah, I mean
it's technically a cheap, arelative.
Joey L (03:36):
If you're looking at like decorating your your
necklace, it's relatively cheaptoken whatever, if no one knows
what's inside of it, then it'scheap, but if not it could look
expensive.
I like that.
NorCal Guy (03:46):
That's a relatively cheap token If no one knows
what's inside of it, then it'scheap, but if not, it could look
expensive.
I like that.
That's a good piece of bling.
Yeah, that's a good idea.
What were your first thoughtswhen you heard about NFTs?
Joey L (03:56):
My first thoughts when I first heard of NFTs.
Did you by any chance see thephoto that I took of Sam
Spratt's Council of Lucy?
It's a group shot of everyonewho went to his event.
We're all wearing like verysinister Lucy masks and there's
kind of an orb on the table.
It kind of looks like the likeTrump, saudi foreign minister,
c-sci like photo where they'retouching the evil orb.
(04:20):
I thought the NFT space was kindof like that, because I was
like late 2020, early 2021.
Me, my wife Kia and Sam Sprattwere all looking at the space
trying to figure it out, like onClubhouse, and looking at like
all these collector's walls thathad like just thousands of
these things inside them andwe're like what the hell?
What is this?
And we honestly thought therewas some kind of dark council.
(04:43):
So when we took that photo, wetried to emanate what other
people thought of it so that wecould create rumors.
But that's honestly what Ithought it was.
And then I realized that it'sactually not that, or maybe it
is, and I haven't been properlyinducted into the real council
yet.
NorCal Guy (05:01):
Right, I mean probably me, a little of both,
probably.
Joey L (05:05):
Yeah, there's like levels to this thing.
That's the first dark council,right.
NorCal Guy (05:09):
Right.
What brought you to photography?
Joey L (05:15):
So I've actually been a photographer since I was seven
years old.
I didn't go to college oruniversity, in fact, I barely
finished high school.
My first art was taking photosof my toy dinosaurs and dioramas
.
I had a website calledDino-rama and I would collect
Jurassic Park toys with kidsonline and share our little
(05:35):
setups and that's how I learnedphotography and it's how I
learned Photoshop.
And then, later on, when I was aemo teenager, I used to get
hired to take different bands'album packaging for MySpace and
album artwork.
So I used to go on tour withScreamo bands across Europe and
across America and that's why Ibarely finished high school, but
(05:57):
I was always working on being aphotographer and then that
built my first portfolio of workthat were these interesting
characters.
Then I started getting hired todo different movie posters and
stuff of movie characters,because my portfolio looked like
an eclectic bunch of weirdos.
So one of my first movieposters was Twilight and it
looked very emo and at the sametime, I always did my personal
(06:20):
fine artwork.
So when I started making moneyas a photographer, that's what I
spent it on is doing my ownpersonal projects.
So that's where all the booksand exhibitions and things come
from.
NorCal Guy (06:30):
Wow.
Joey L (06:31):
That's an impressive journey.
Well, I've never done any otherjob, so I'm like past the point
of this thing working out ornot.
It's like all the bridgesbehind me are burned, so there's
only forward left to go.
NorCal Guy (06:44):
Perfect, perfect, perfect.
I mean, I feel like thatanswers the next question, which
is what jobs have you doneother than being an artist,
because it sounds like, from theget go, you've just been doing
art.
Yeah, I've been very lucky.
Joey L (06:57):
Yeah, like I've been honestly very blessed.
A lot of the NFT space I foundlike complains about commercial
work, but really I've beenreally blessed to have very
interesting clients and coolcommissions from different
entities and I say like, as longas I'm doing my own style on
set, it's kind of like operatingon steroids.
So, for example, one of theshoots I did a few years ago was
(07:21):
this agricultural projectaround the whole world, many
different countries, and it wasjust the same as shooting my
personal work, except we hadlike a lot of production behind
it so we could accomplish a lotin a short amount of time.
So when I'm, the onlydifference between that and my
personal work is I have moretime and less budget, right.
(07:42):
So it's like the work shouldjust kind of blend together and
if you see it on my website, youshould know what's commissioned
and what's not.
I like to just be very heavyhanded with my work, as long as
people know that it comes fromme.
NorCal Guy (07:55):
Yeah, no, I like that.
That's awesome.
I like definitely knowing whoit is for sure.
Joey L (08:01):
Yeah, yeah, that's one of the things that that is still
the kind of art that I like.
It's not necessarily someonewho photographs the same way I
do, but someone who has theirown very distinct vision, and of
course it can evolve over time,should change and get better
and better.
But just I love artists that Ican instantly recognize.
NorCal Guy (08:20):
Yeah, no, I like that too.
It's good to have that distinctstyle yourself your name on it.
So if you were an animal, whatwould you be and why?
Joey L (08:30):
I was trying to think of this question.
Well, my name is Joey, so Iguess I'd be like a baby
kangaroo.
But one of the things that I'mnotorious for is hoarding.
So I have all this work that Ihaven't minted.
That's kind of like I'm afraidto release it, or it's just not
right, or I save it for a largercollection.
So I guess I'd be a squirrel,some kind of kangaroo slash
(08:56):
squirrel, so some kind of mammalOkay, storing different nuts
for the winter.
But yeah, I really sufferedwith that question, but I do
appreciate it.
NorCal Guy (09:09):
Do you have a favorite food?
Joey L (09:15):
My favorite food is ethiopian food, and that's what
first got me addicted totraveling to the country 13
years ago, until I ended upstaying there just to continue
eating that food.
So ethiopian cuisine is is thebest thing we have it at home
every day.
Nice, living the dream.
Sometimes it feels that way.
NorCal Guy (09:30):
That's that's good, that's good man.
What's the best piece of advice?
You've been given.
Joey L (09:37):
The best piece of advice I've been given is probably an
amalgamation of the similarpoints, and that is if you look
at another person's success andtry to emulate them, usually
it's not going to work becausethat path was very specific for
them.
That's especially true when itcomes to artists.
In a constantly changingindustry, the path that a
(09:57):
photographer would have taken ina generation before mine simply
doesn't exist.
So you have to look at theirsuccess and just appreciate it
as being theirs.
But you really have to findyour own path, and then other
people will eventually look atyou and wonder how you did it.
But there are core truths towhat works and what doesn't work
.
But simply a point A to point Bto point C doesn't work in this
(10:22):
industry, especially now thateverything's changed the last
few years.
So the best advice I was beinggiven was to just keep your head
down and do your own thing best, and don't look to try to get
into a group or circle friendsof someone else, but try to form
your own around you.
NorCal Guy (10:40):
No, I like that a lot.
I think that there's no likedefinite way.
80% of it is grinding and doingyeah, actually going through
with what you said you're goingto do.
Joey L (10:51):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and just kind of a slow and steady
pace, you know, building slowlyand people will eventually
figure it out.
Maybe you'd be undervalued atthe starting, but if you just
kind of, there's a lot of meritof people who have just been
doing things for a really longtime.
People trust them, peoplebelieve in them, but you as
yourself, you also learn yourown structure.
(11:14):
So it's just like doing thesame thing for a really, really
long time is, you know,sometimes surprising to people?
Because we live in such adisposable culture where it's
like people just try things fora year and there's no mastery
really.
So it's like I think, as longas you just do what you do best
for a really long time, you'llfigure it out.
Yeah, and I I have to remindmyself this all the time.
(11:36):
By the way, it's not somethingthat I just believe right, it's
like you have to constantlyremind yourself there and not
let your ego get in the way of,like success of other people, or
what's this, what's this,what's right, what's wrong.
It's just something you have tolike live by no, that's really
true.
NorCal Guy (11:53):
It's, it's hard, it's hard, it's hard to do.
That's why it's like a grindman and yeah, with this podcast,
you know, it's just, I feel thesame thing.
Joey L (12:00):
I'm like oh, another, another sometimes did you say
that to yourself before youcalled me.
Oh god, this fucking, thisfucking I'm another one of these
photographer assholes.
Oh fuck.
I got to hear his theory onlife, oh great.
Oh no his favorite food is fromsomewhere far away.
Of course it is.
NorCal Guy (12:23):
Well, no, not specifically.
I enjoy actually all theinterviews, the one-on-one with
everybody.
It's just like you know.
You're like damn, I wish it wasmore successful sometimes.
But you know everybody.
But it's just like you know,you're like damn, I wish it was
more successful sometimes.
But you know, sometimes it'sjust the grind and you're like I
think you strike me as someonevery successful well, thank you,
yeah, I don't know.
I think it is, it's fine, it's,it is successful.
(12:43):
But you know, you know you'realways there, always that
comparison thing out there, andyou're always like, how can I
make it better, how can I dobetter?
Yeah, and you know, the artistsdefinitely feel that more than
I do, like I'm not dependent on,on this right I'm doing it for
fun, right?
Joey L (12:58):
I would.
I would be interested to seesomething of your work, of that
you're actually dependent on, ifthis is what you do for fun
seems like it seems like a lothere.
NorCal Guy (13:13):
Do you have advice for artists joining the nft
space?
Joey L (13:18):
I do have advice for artists joining the nft space,
and that is you really need tozoom out and take a long-term
vision and understand that,first and foremost, you're an
artist and this is a new,exciting extension into the art
world or into the photographyworld in my case and there's
(13:39):
always this temptation to doevery trend and to blow up
really fast, and what we've seenis most of the people who have
done that, their careers lastmaybe one or two years and then
after that they have a reallyhard time because they simply
exploded and did every trend toofast and then after that it's
very tough for them to make aliving, to sell their work, or
(14:02):
they might just be successfulbut be completely burnt out, and
none of those outcomes are good.
So my advice is the NFT space.
Of course there's a lot trendsthat can help you if you have
work that's going to fit insidethat and just happens to work
out, but if not, it's just kindof like my other point.
A slow and steady approach overseveral years into a lifetime
(14:25):
is a much better approach andmore healthy approach for you,
but also something that's goingto yield better results, even
financially, for you as well.
So, like I said, I've beendoing this since I was seven
years old, when I first startedworking as a photographer.
It was the last financialcrisis.
Now I see another financialcrisis and it's kind of all the
(14:47):
same thing again, but with newbells and whistles.
The NFT space is one of thosethings.
I think it's incrediblyexciting and a new time for
artists.
NorCal Guy (15:00):
But don't get lost in this sauce of what you
actually became an artist for.
Yeah, that's hard.
You got to stay focused andalways come back to what you why
.
Joey L (15:08):
Yeah, why?
Why?
Because, even when you askyourself why, when you do it,
it's even self-serving.
Because you can inspire a lotof people and you can surround
yourself with very positive,good people.
If you're doing something thathas a real vision or a real
focus, people are going tonaturally gravitate to the work.
If things, things are like veryquick, trendy things, it'll
(15:30):
definitely work for that time,but then it's going to be over
and people become artists toescape a regular life, like I
did, to run away from somethingor just to share the vision that
they have with the world.
So I think that should be thestarting point, and the rest is
too zoomed in, right.
You have to like, really take azoomed out long-term view.
(15:53):
Is this something that I'mgoing to dedicate my entire
human life to?
right, it's a good question itis a good question for everyone
to think about.
NorCal Guy (16:03):
Yeah, yeah yeah, so I feel like I already know the
answer to this one, oh justbased on earlier conversation,
okay you know it's part.
It's a question here and it'sif you could live or move
anywhere where would you live?
Joey L (16:16):
what do you?
What do you think?
My answer is ethiopia, yeah,but I did that already, so I
would have to choose a new place.
NorCal Guy (16:25):
You have to do okay, because you're not living there
now.
Right, I spent.
I spent many years there.
Joey L (16:29):
I spent many years there .
I spent many years in new yorkto choose a new place.
I would love to relocate ourfamily to india for a few years.
I think that could be nice,okay, yeah, yeah, I was really
fortunate to do some work forthe kerala government to revive
their tourism industry.
The campaign was called humanby nature and, like I really
(16:50):
fell in love with the place andI could see you know, doing like
a long-term project out thereand resettling out there for a
few years if it came, if it cameto be india's kind of the
magical place for me, and alsomany other photographers have
been inspired.
So I think that's that's myanswer for you, okay no, no, I
like it.
NorCal Guy (17:07):
It's different than I thought like.
There is such a love forEthiopia there is.
That was, I mean it still is.
But I thought that would be theplace.
Joey L (17:17):
Yeah, I mean, we have our house there, but I tried to
think of something new for you.
Because, every Twitter space.
I'm talking about how much Ilove Ethiopia.
NorCal Guy (17:31):
But I thought I'd share some love.
Do you have any questions forme?
Joey L (17:35):
I do.
So I was wondering your take oninstitutions entering the NFT
space, and this is somethingthat we were talking about on
the rooftop that night in Miami,but a lot of people ask round
table for artists.
But I was wondering for you asa collector, what is the, what
is the proper way that a kind ofa institution like a Christie's
(17:59):
, sotheby's, a museum and so oncould properly enter the NFT
space and not screw it up andnot be extractive but bring
something new to it.
That's my big, big, big, bigquestion for you, because I've
heard everything what artistshave to say and that's important
and I agree, but I want to hearit from a collector.
NorCal Guy (18:22):
I mean, I guess it'd be what they're the best at and
the flip side.
I don't know what exactlythey're doing.
I haven't looked into it at all, but what I would say would be
like education for theircollectors that they currently
have, Like they have regulars,and so it'd be like hey, you
(18:42):
know 100, once in a while, likehey, I know what you like, you
know, and there may not be muchcrossover between what they like
and what this world is bringing, but potentially there might be
some similarities here andthere.
And throwing them somesoftballs, like hey, here's
(19:02):
something, some education aboutthis space.
It's going to be education.
I think they already have theirplatform and how that works and
everything.
I mean.
Maybe potentially it goes alittle differently.
Maybe they start allowing anonsto do stuff as far as auction,
bidding and whatnot, but I thinkit's going to be educational.
(19:22):
They have to be educational totheir current collectors or
current clientele.
Joey L (19:30):
Yeah, that's very good advice.
NorCal Guy (19:33):
I agree completely yeah yeah, I mean, it's just.
This is a much different spaceand it takes a lot to you know
for that, which I think I thinkit was patrick albanon I was
talking to in.
Like the demographic right nowfor the art trends is like 60,
(19:54):
80 years old, 80 year old and soit's gonna and that's like
completely like.
Even me it was hard to likewrap my head around digital
tokens, so it could be agenerational thing, but
education would help a lot withthat coming in sooner right, see
a lot of those collectors whobuy things at christie's.
Joey L (20:14):
They go straight into storage anyway.
Right, it's not something thatthey might not even put on their
wall.
So if those institutions gotinto the custody business and
offered a certificate and someinsurance to the collector that
said, you know this thing isgoing to be safe with us, I
think like that could be a bigpart of the education of it is
(20:34):
what does this thing mean?
Right, it's a bettercertificate than most of what
they're buying.
And then, like paying yearlyfor storage for work of art, I
can see it coming.
I think it's going to takelonger than what most people
think.
It's not like the masses aregoing to enter suddenly one year
, but it's going to be a slowdrip.
But that's super interesting tome.
(20:56):
That, like you kind of don'tcare or don't know, because
you're also seeing the space,for what it is is something
completely new and it's like, dowe even need those people to
enter?
Maybe, maybe not.
Maybe we can make our ownlittle world here.
It would help, but maybe it'snot necessary.
NorCal Guy (21:13):
Also, yeah, maybe talked about the storage and
everything that you said.
It'd be interesting becausethese auction houses have
connections.
If they could, it'd be kind oflike pitching as an investment
but like, hey, you know, buythis digital work and we'll be
having it, you know, shownaround the country in these
(21:35):
different museums.
Like it's digital, it's easy tomove, yeah to, from one museum
to another and, you know, youmaybe get a little cut from the
museum for showing it there orsomething I don't know.
Joey L (21:47):
Something around those lines would be kind of cool
there's a lot of creative dealmaking that museums make, and
that's that could work for sure,I mean, they got the
connections they should.
NorCal Guy (21:58):
I mean I would think they have the connections to
make it work, so something alongthat, and their collectors
would be like, well, you know,it's relatively affordable,
these digital assets compared topotentially some of the work
that they're buying.
Why not diversify a little?
Joey L (22:13):
bit.
Yeah, like coinbase doescustody for the big companies.
I think they hold tesla'sBitcoin in a kind of like a
private custody, like just forthem.
I'm sure these big museumcollections or Christie is the
same way that they haverelationships with warehouses
and storage could make that abig part of their business and
it's already proven that, likemany great artists, their work
(22:36):
in the NFT space holds value orgoes up.
It's the same as thetraditional art market, like
that's where I come from, thatkind of stuff and like selling
books and things and it's likeall this stuff is such a
blessing not to have to likerelease a book and ship out 700
signed copies and then, have youknow, 10 of them come back to
you because someone wasn't thereto receive it.
(22:57):
It's a, it's a big, it's a bigheadache, so great.
Yeah, I think that's a veryinteresting point you made any
any other questions?
what do you hope to achieve withyour podcast not just this one,
but in general, like what'syour, because I understand you
come from web 2.0, a littleplace that we've heard of.
(23:20):
What's your, what's kind ofyour grand scheme with this?
NorCal Guy (23:25):
You know, I didn't think a whole lot of it long
term.
I was just kind of like it'd becool to document artists along
the way in like bite-sized clips, basically.
And you know, and I justcommitted to once a week and
just keep on grinding it out,that's about it.
(23:45):
I mean just be like so.
Part of it was I wanted thispodcast to always be relevant,
in a way like it wasn't topicbased, right, whereas if we, if
I was like asking topicalquestions on current events, you
know it's outdated in two weeks.
Yeah, true, true.
(24:06):
So I want people to be able tolisten to like the first episode
and get something from theartist then and pick up whatever
artist you want that I'veinterviewed and be able to get
something from it yeah, yeah, Idon't think anything like that
exists.
So that's, yeah, that's aninteresting niche thanks you
(24:27):
can't be alone with your ownthoughts awesome.
Do you have any other questions?
That's all, all right.
Do you have any shout outs orupcoming projects you would like
to tell us?
Joey L (24:41):
about.
I would like to say thank youto our mutual friend, chikai.
Him in monolith gallery havehelped so many artists entering
this space and also establishedartists that are like from
another world, like enter.
So I would like to thank ourmutual friend chikai for doing
such a great job with our showand and during NFT NYC.
I ran into him probably fivetimes during the week and every
(25:04):
single time I ran into him hisvoice was more and more screwed
up and then by the end of it hedidn't have a voice anymore,
just because he was talking withevery single person that he
could.
So I would like to show my lovefor Chikai.
That's my special shout out andI'm very thankful for what he
did for me with our last drop.
NorCal Guy (25:21):
I love chikai so much like he is good guy chikai,
such a good, such a good personin this space and um, yeah, I I
can't say enough good thingsabout him, yeah that's my
special shout out awesome.
Well, joey, thank you so muchfor coming on the show today.
Joey L (25:42):
This has been a very painless interview, thank you.
Thank you for that.
Yeah, I just want to keep itlighthearted.
Yeah, no politics.
It's great For a reason.
NorCal Guy (25:58):
Cool.
Well, you have a good day andwe'll talk soon.
All right, brother.
Thank you very much.
All right Bye.
Joey L (26:04):
Who is?
NorCal Guy (26:05):
this, who is?
Joey L (26:05):
this guy.
NorCal Guy (26:06):
Who is this guy?
Who is this guy?
Who is this guy.
Who is this guy?
Norcal guy, norcal guy, norcalguy, norcal guy, norcal guy,
norcalguy.
Who is this?
Who is this guy?
NorCal Guy (00:02):
Who is this guy?
Who is this guy?
Who is this guy?
Who is this guy?
Norcal guy, norcal guy, norcalguy, norcal guy, norcal guy,
norcal guy, norcal guy, norcalguy, norcal and chill podcast
Show.
Joey L (00:18):
It's chill time, norcal and chill podcast.
What the sh.
NorCal Guy (00:30):
What the sh?
Nor hey.
Everyone, welcome to this nextepisode of NorCal and Shill.
Today's guest is Joey L.
Joey is a Canadian-bornphotographer and director based
in Brooklyn, New York, whosework has been consistently
sought out by prominentadvertising clients and features
(00:53):
recognizable faces such asRobert De Niro and Jennifer
Lawrence.
He is known for his curiosityfor different ways of living, as
showcased in his Holy Menseries and annual pilgrimage to
document Halloween in Brooklyn.
Joey maintains a quirky webseries called Dudes with Cameras
(01:14):
and believes that personalconnection to the subjects and
client is key to making an imageresonate.
He recently traveled to theKurdish regions of Iraq and
Syria to document the volunteerfighters of the PKK and YPG in
his new series, guerrillaFighters of Kurdistan.
Joey has been listed as one ofthe most influential
(01:38):
photographers on social mediaand has been named one of the 30
photographers under 30 to watchby Complex Magazine.
Everybody, please welcome Joey.
Hey, joey, Welcome to thepodcast.
How are you doing?
Joey L (01:55):
today.
Hey, I'm doing very good.
My day was going quite normallyand then I received a bid, so
now everything seems more sunnyand rosy than it was five
minutes ago.
NorCal Guy (02:05):
That's awesome, congrats on that I mean
definitely puts a more positivespin on the day.
Joey L (02:13):
It's like, oh, I suddenly believe in this stuff
again.
NorCal Guy (02:18):
It's not a scam anymore.
Yeah, yeah.
No, I know I get that Like withmy that ClickMint Pass project
that I have the like instantcamera, digital camera thing.
Whenever like I post it.
I'm like because I alwaysstarted at 0.069 and then it's
always fun to watch it ramp upand you're like, oh okay, good,
(02:38):
it's doing all right so far.
Increase your conviction andeverything that you've poured
your soul into the last coupleyears right, right and man, I
just gotta give it to the artistbecause I mean that's hard,
especially when you're puttingall day and you're like trying
to make it as your primary, andthat's a lot of work, man, it's
(03:00):
rough.
So do you have a hardwarewallet?
Joey L (03:05):
I do have a hardware wallet.
Our family uses a bunch ofLedger Nanos and I always
thought it would be a very nicefashion accessory, like how they
bling it out, but at the sametime you don't want to get that
thing stolen, so it's probablygood not to flaunt it.
NorCal Guy (03:19):
You just wear a blank one, you just buy one for
the necklace.
Joey L (03:26):
Kind of like to pretend that that's your one and then
your other one is in a veryobvious place.
Yeah, that's a good idea.
NorCal Guy (03:31):
Okay, I'm gonna start doing that yeah, I mean
it's technically a cheap, arelative.
Joey L (03:36):
If you're looking at like decorating your your
necklace, it's relatively cheaptoken whatever, if no one knows
what's inside of it, then it'scheap, but if not it could look
expensive.
I like that.
NorCal Guy (03:46):
That's a relatively cheap token If no one knows
what's inside of it, then it'scheap, but if not, it could look
expensive.
I like that.
That's a good piece of bling.
Yeah, that's a good idea.
What were your first thoughtswhen you heard about NFTs?
Joey L (03:56):
My first thoughts when I first heard of NFTs.
Did you by any chance see thephoto that I took of Sam
Spratt's Council of Lucy?
It's a group shot of everyonewho went to his event.
We're all wearing like verysinister Lucy masks and there's
kind of an orb on the table.
It kind of looks like the likeTrump, saudi foreign minister,
c-sci like photo where they'retouching the evil orb.
(04:20):
I thought the NFT space was kindof like that, because I was
like late 2020, early 2021.
Me, my wife Kia and Sam Sprattwere all looking at the space
trying to figure it out, like onClubhouse, and looking at like
all these collector's walls thathad like just thousands of
these things inside them andwe're like what the hell?
What is this?
And we honestly thought therewas some kind of dark council.
(04:43):
So when we took that photo, wetried to emanate what other
people thought of it so that wecould create rumors.
But that's honestly what Ithought it was.
And then I realized that it'sactually not that, or maybe it
is, and I haven't been properlyinducted into the real council
yet.
NorCal Guy (05:01):
Right, I mean probably me, a little of both,
probably.
Joey L (05:05):
Yeah, there's like levels to this thing.
That's the first dark council,right.
NorCal Guy (05:09):
Right.
What brought you to photography?
Joey L (05:15):
So I've actually been a photographer since I was seven
years old.
I didn't go to college oruniversity, in fact, I barely
finished high school.
My first art was taking photosof my toy dinosaurs and dioramas
.
I had a website calledDino-rama and I would collect
Jurassic Park toys with kidsonline and share our little
(05:35):
setups and that's how I learnedphotography and it's how I
learned Photoshop.
And then, later on, when I was aemo teenager, I used to get
hired to take different bands'album packaging for MySpace and
album artwork.
So I used to go on tour withScreamo bands across Europe and
across America and that's why Ibarely finished high school, but
(05:57):
I was always working on being aphotographer and then that
built my first portfolio of workthat were these interesting
characters.
Then I started getting hired todo different movie posters and
stuff of movie characters,because my portfolio looked like
an eclectic bunch of weirdos.
So one of my first movieposters was Twilight and it
looked very emo and at the sametime, I always did my personal
(06:20):
fine artwork.
So when I started making moneyas a photographer, that's what I
spent it on is doing my ownpersonal projects.
So that's where all the booksand exhibitions and things come
from.
NorCal Guy (06:30):
Wow.
Joey L (06:31):
That's an impressive journey.
Well, I've never done any otherjob, so I'm like past the point
of this thing working out ornot.
It's like all the bridgesbehind me are burned, so there's
only forward left to go.
NorCal Guy (06:44):
Perfect, perfect, perfect.
I mean, I feel like thatanswers the next question, which
is what jobs have you doneother than being an artist,
because it sounds like, from theget go, you've just been doing
art.
Yeah, I've been very lucky.
Joey L (06:57):
Yeah, like I've been honestly very blessed.
A lot of the NFT space I foundlike complains about commercial
work, but really I've beenreally blessed to have very
interesting clients and coolcommissions from different
entities and I say like, as longas I'm doing my own style on
set, it's kind of like operatingon steroids.
So, for example, one of theshoots I did a few years ago was
(07:21):
this agricultural projectaround the whole world, many
different countries, and it wasjust the same as shooting my
personal work, except we hadlike a lot of production behind
it so we could accomplish a lotin a short amount of time.
So when I'm, the onlydifference between that and my
personal work is I have moretime and less budget, right.
(07:42):
So it's like the work shouldjust kind of blend together and
if you see it on my website, youshould know what's commissioned
and what's not.
I like to just be very heavyhanded with my work, as long as
people know that it comes fromme.
NorCal Guy (07:55):
Yeah, no, I like that.
That's awesome.
I like definitely knowing whoit is for sure.
Joey L (08:01):
Yeah, yeah, that's one of the things that that is still
the kind of art that I like.
It's not necessarily someonewho photographs the same way I
do, but someone who has theirown very distinct vision, and of
course it can evolve over time,should change and get better
and better.
But just I love artists that Ican instantly recognize.
NorCal Guy (08:20):
Yeah, no, I like that too.
It's good to have that distinctstyle yourself your name on it.
So if you were an animal, whatwould you be and why?
Joey L (08:30):
I was trying to think of this question.
Well, my name is Joey, so Iguess I'd be like a baby
kangaroo.
But one of the things that I'mnotorious for is hoarding.
So I have all this work that Ihaven't minted.
That's kind of like I'm afraidto release it, or it's just not
right, or I save it for a largercollection.
So I guess I'd be a squirrel,some kind of kangaroo slash
(08:56):
squirrel, so some kind of mammalOkay, storing different nuts
for the winter.
But yeah, I really sufferedwith that question, but I do
appreciate it.
NorCal Guy (09:09):
Do you have a favorite food?
Joey L (09:15):
My favorite food is ethiopian food, and that's what
first got me addicted totraveling to the country 13
years ago, until I ended upstaying there just to continue
eating that food.
So ethiopian cuisine is is thebest thing we have it at home
every day.
Nice, living the dream.
Sometimes it feels that way.
NorCal Guy (09:30):
That's that's good, that's good man.
What's the best piece of advice?
You've been given.
Joey L (09:37):
The best piece of advice I've been given is probably an
amalgamation of the similarpoints, and that is if you look
at another person's success andtry to emulate them, usually
it's not going to work becausethat path was very specific for
them.
That's especially true when itcomes to artists.
In a constantly changingindustry, the path that a
(09:57):
photographer would have taken ina generation before mine simply
doesn't exist.
So you have to look at theirsuccess and just appreciate it
as being theirs.
But you really have to findyour own path, and then other
people will eventually look atyou and wonder how you did it.
But there are core truths towhat works and what doesn't work
.
But simply a point A to point Bto point C doesn't work in this
(10:22):
industry, especially now thateverything's changed the last
few years.
So the best advice I was beinggiven was to just keep your head
down and do your own thing best, and don't look to try to get
into a group or circle friendsof someone else, but try to form
your own around you.
NorCal Guy (10:40):
No, I like that a lot.
I think that there's no likedefinite way.
80% of it is grinding and doingyeah, actually going through
with what you said you're goingto do.
Joey L (10:51):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and just kind of a slow and steady
pace, you know, building slowlyand people will eventually
figure it out.
Maybe you'd be undervalued atthe starting, but if you just
kind of, there's a lot of meritof people who have just been
doing things for a really longtime.
People trust them, peoplebelieve in them, but you as
yourself, you also learn yourown structure.
(11:14):
So it's just like doing thesame thing for a really, really
long time is, you know,sometimes surprising to people?
Because we live in such adisposable culture where it's
like people just try things fora year and there's no mastery
really.
So it's like I think, as longas you just do what you do best
for a really long time, you'llfigure it out.
Yeah, and I I have to remindmyself this all the time.
(11:36):
By the way, it's not somethingthat I just believe right, it's
like you have to constantlyremind yourself there and not
let your ego get in the way of,like success of other people, or
what's this, what's this,what's right, what's wrong.
It's just something you have tolike live by no, that's really
true.
NorCal Guy (11:53):
It's, it's hard, it's hard, it's hard to do.
That's why it's like a grindman and yeah, with this podcast,
you know, it's just, I feel thesame thing.
Joey L (12:00):
I'm like oh, another, another sometimes did you say
that to yourself before youcalled me.
Oh god, this fucking, thisfucking I'm another one of these
photographer assholes.
Oh fuck.
I got to hear his theory onlife, oh great.
Oh no his favorite food is fromsomewhere far away.
Of course it is.
NorCal Guy (12:23):
Well, no, not specifically.
I enjoy actually all theinterviews, the one-on-one with
everybody.
It's just like you know.
You're like damn, I wish it wasmore successful sometimes.
But you know everybody.
But it's just like you know,you're like damn, I wish it was
more successful sometimes.
But you know, sometimes it'sjust the grind and you're like I
think you strike me as someonevery successful well, thank you,
yeah, I don't know.
I think it is, it's fine, it's,it is successful.
(12:43):
But you know, you know you'realways there, always that
comparison thing out there, andyou're always like, how can I
make it better, how can I dobetter?
Yeah, and you know, the artistsdefinitely feel that more than
I do, like I'm not dependent on,on this right I'm doing it for
fun, right?
Joey L (12:58):
I would.
I would be interested to seesomething of your work, of that
you're actually dependent on, ifthis is what you do for fun
seems like it seems like a lothere.
NorCal Guy (13:13):
Do you have advice for artists joining the nft
space?
Joey L (13:18):
I do have advice for artists joining the nft space,
and that is you really need tozoom out and take a long-term
vision and understand that,first and foremost, you're an
artist and this is a new,exciting extension into the art
world or into the photographyworld in my case and there's
(13:39):
always this temptation to doevery trend and to blow up
really fast, and what we've seenis most of the people who have
done that, their careers lastmaybe one or two years and then
after that they have a reallyhard time because they simply
exploded and did every trend toofast and then after that it's
very tough for them to make aliving, to sell their work, or
(14:02):
they might just be successfulbut be completely burnt out, and
none of those outcomes are good.
So my advice is the NFT space.
Of course there's a lot trendsthat can help you if you have
work that's going to fit insidethat and just happens to work
out, but if not, it's just kindof like my other point.
A slow and steady approach overseveral years into a lifetime
(14:25):
is a much better approach andmore healthy approach for you,
but also something that's goingto yield better results, even
financially, for you as well.
So, like I said, I've beendoing this since I was seven
years old, when I first startedworking as a photographer.
It was the last financialcrisis.
Now I see another financialcrisis and it's kind of all the
(14:47):
same thing again, but with newbells and whistles.
The NFT space is one of thosethings.
I think it's incrediblyexciting and a new time for
artists.
NorCal Guy (15:00):
But don't get lost in this sauce of what you
actually became an artist for.
Yeah, that's hard.
You got to stay focused andalways come back to what you why
.
Joey L (15:08):
Yeah, why?
Why?
Because, even when you askyourself why, when you do it,
it's even self-serving.
Because you can inspire a lotof people and you can surround
yourself with very positive,good people.
If you're doing something thathas a real vision or a real
focus, people are going tonaturally gravitate to the work.
If things, things are like veryquick, trendy things, it'll
(15:30):
definitely work for that time,but then it's going to be over
and people become artists toescape a regular life, like I
did, to run away from somethingor just to share the vision that
they have with the world.
So I think that should be thestarting point, and the rest is
too zoomed in, right.
You have to like, really take azoomed out long-term view.
(15:53):
Is this something that I'mgoing to dedicate my entire
human life to?
right, it's a good question itis a good question for everyone
to think about.
NorCal Guy (16:03):
Yeah, yeah yeah, so I feel like I already know the
answer to this one, oh justbased on earlier conversation,
okay you know it's part.
It's a question here and it'sif you could live or move
anywhere where would you live?
Joey L (16:16):
what do you?
What do you think?
My answer is ethiopia, yeah,but I did that already, so I
would have to choose a new place.
NorCal Guy (16:25):
You have to do okay, because you're not living there
now.
Right, I spent.
I spent many years there.
Joey L (16:29):
I spent many years there .
I spent many years in new yorkto choose a new place.
I would love to relocate ourfamily to india for a few years.
I think that could be nice,okay, yeah, yeah, I was really
fortunate to do some work forthe kerala government to revive
their tourism industry.
The campaign was called humanby nature and, like I really
(16:50):
fell in love with the place andI could see you know, doing like
a long-term project out thereand resettling out there for a
few years if it came, if it cameto be india's kind of the
magical place for me, and alsomany other photographers have
been inspired.
So I think that's that's myanswer for you, okay no, no, I
like it.
NorCal Guy (17:07):
It's different than I thought like.
There is such a love forEthiopia there is.
That was, I mean it still is.
But I thought that would be theplace.
Joey L (17:17):
Yeah, I mean, we have our house there, but I tried to
think of something new for you.
Because, every Twitter space.
I'm talking about how much Ilove Ethiopia.
NorCal Guy (17:31):
But I thought I'd share some love.
Do you have any questions forme?
Joey L (17:35):
I do.
So I was wondering your take oninstitutions entering the NFT
space, and this is somethingthat we were talking about on
the rooftop that night in Miami,but a lot of people ask round
table for artists.
But I was wondering for you asa collector, what is the, what
is the proper way that a kind ofa institution like a Christie's
(17:59):
, sotheby's, a museum and so oncould properly enter the NFT
space and not screw it up andnot be extractive but bring
something new to it.
That's my big, big, big, bigquestion for you, because I've
heard everything what artistshave to say and that's important
and I agree, but I want to hearit from a collector.
NorCal Guy (18:22):
I mean, I guess it'd be what they're the best at and
the flip side.
I don't know what exactlythey're doing.
I haven't looked into it at all, but what I would say would be
like education for theircollectors that they currently
have, Like they have regulars,and so it'd be like hey, you
(18:42):
know 100, once in a while, likehey, I know what you like, you
know, and there may not be muchcrossover between what they like
and what this world is bringing, but potentially there might be
some similarities here andthere.
And throwing them somesoftballs, like hey, here's
(19:02):
something, some education aboutthis space.
It's going to be education.
I think they already have theirplatform and how that works and
everything.
I mean.
Maybe potentially it goes alittle differently.
Maybe they start allowing anonsto do stuff as far as auction,
bidding and whatnot, but I thinkit's going to be educational.
(19:22):
They have to be educational totheir current collectors or
current clientele.
Joey L (19:30):
Yeah, that's very good advice.
NorCal Guy (19:33):
I agree completely yeah yeah, I mean, it's just.
This is a much different spaceand it takes a lot to you know
for that, which I think I thinkit was patrick albanon I was
talking to in.
Like the demographic right nowfor the art trends is like 60,
(19:54):
80 years old, 80 year old and soit's gonna and that's like
completely like.
Even me it was hard to likewrap my head around digital
tokens, so it could be agenerational thing, but
education would help a lot withthat coming in sooner right, see
a lot of those collectors whobuy things at christie's.
Joey L (20:14):
They go straight into storage anyway.
Right, it's not something thatthey might not even put on their
wall.
So if those institutions gotinto the custody business and
offered a certificate and someinsurance to the collector that
said, you know this thing isgoing to be safe with us, I
think like that could be a bigpart of the education of it is
(20:34):
what does this thing mean?
Right, it's a bettercertificate than most of what
they're buying.
And then, like paying yearlyfor storage for work of art, I
can see it coming.
I think it's going to takelonger than what most people
think.
It's not like the masses aregoing to enter suddenly one year
, but it's going to be a slowdrip.
But that's super interesting tome.
(20:56):
That, like you kind of don'tcare or don't know, because
you're also seeing the space,for what it is is something
completely new and it's like, dowe even need those people to
enter?
Maybe, maybe not.
Maybe we can make our ownlittle world here.
It would help, but maybe it'snot necessary.
NorCal Guy (21:13):
Also, yeah, maybe talked about the storage and
everything that you said.
It'd be interesting becausethese auction houses have
connections.
If they could, it'd be kind oflike pitching as an investment
but like, hey, you know, buythis digital work and we'll be
having it, you know, shownaround the country in these
(21:35):
different museums.
Like it's digital, it's easy tomove, yeah to, from one museum
to another and, you know, youmaybe get a little cut from the
museum for showing it there orsomething I don't know.
Joey L (21:47):
Something around those lines would be kind of cool
there's a lot of creative dealmaking that museums make, and
that's that could work for sure,I mean, they got the
connections they should.
NorCal Guy (21:58):
I mean I would think they have the connections to
make it work, so something alongthat, and their collectors
would be like, well, you know,it's relatively affordable,
these digital assets compared topotentially some of the work
that they're buying.
Why not diversify a little?
Joey L (22:13):
bit.
Yeah, like coinbase doescustody for the big companies.
I think they hold tesla'sBitcoin in a kind of like a
private custody, like just forthem.
I'm sure these big museumcollections or Christie is the
same way that they haverelationships with warehouses
and storage could make that abig part of their business and
it's already proven that, likemany great artists, their work
(22:36):
in the NFT space holds value orgoes up.
It's the same as thetraditional art market, like
that's where I come from, thatkind of stuff and like selling
books and things and it's likeall this stuff is such a
blessing not to have to likerelease a book and ship out 700
signed copies and then, have youknow, 10 of them come back to
you because someone wasn't thereto receive it.
(22:57):
It's a, it's a big, it's a bigheadache, so great.
Yeah, I think that's a veryinteresting point you made any
any other questions?
what do you hope to achieve withyour podcast not just this one,
but in general, like what'syour, because I understand you
come from web 2.0, a littleplace that we've heard of.
(23:20):
What's your, what's kind ofyour grand scheme with this?
NorCal Guy (23:25):
You know, I didn't think a whole lot of it long
term.
I was just kind of like it'd becool to document artists along
the way in like bite-sized clips, basically.
And you know, and I justcommitted to once a week and
just keep on grinding it out,that's about it.
(23:45):
I mean just be like so.
Part of it was I wanted thispodcast to always be relevant,
in a way like it wasn't topicbased, right, whereas if we, if
I was like asking topicalquestions on current events, you
know it's outdated in two weeks.
Yeah, true, true.
(24:06):
So I want people to be able tolisten to like the first episode
and get something from theartist then and pick up whatever
artist you want that I'veinterviewed and be able to get
something from it yeah, yeah, Idon't think anything like that
exists.
So that's, yeah, that's aninteresting niche thanks you
(24:27):
can't be alone with your ownthoughts awesome.
Do you have any other questions?
That's all, all right.
Do you have any shout outs orupcoming projects you would like
to tell us?
Joey L (24:41):
about.
I would like to say thank youto our mutual friend, chikai.
Him in monolith gallery havehelped so many artists entering
this space and also establishedartists that are like from
another world, like enter.
So I would like to thank ourmutual friend chikai for doing
such a great job with our showand and during NFT NYC.
I ran into him probably fivetimes during the week and every
(25:04):
single time I ran into him hisvoice was more and more screwed
up and then by the end of it hedidn't have a voice anymore,
just because he was talking withevery single person that he
could.
So I would like to show my lovefor Chikai.
That's my special shout out andI'm very thankful for what he
did for me with our last drop.
NorCal Guy (25:21):
I love chikai so much like he is good guy chikai,
such a good, such a good personin this space and um, yeah, I I
can't say enough good thingsabout him, yeah that's my
special shout out awesome.
Well, joey, thank you so muchfor coming on the show today.
Joey L (25:42):
This has been a very painless interview, thank you.
Thank you for that.
Yeah, I just want to keep itlighthearted.
Yeah, no politics.
It's great For a reason.
NorCal Guy (25:58):
Cool.
Well, you have a good day andwe'll talk soon.
All right, brother.
Thank you very much.
All right Bye.
Joey L (26:04):
Who is?
NorCal Guy (26:05):
this, who is?
Joey L (26:05):
this guy.
NorCal Guy (26:06):
Who is this guy?
Who is this guy?
Who is this guy.
Who is this guy?
Norcal guy, norcal guy, norcalguy, norcal guy, norcal guy,
norcalguy.
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