July 2, 2025 • 43 mins
Burnout, cancer, and silent struggles, how Dr. Arvind Petrie hid pain behind professional success (until he couldn't).
What does it take for a high-achieving man to finally say, “I need help” ?
For Dr. Arvind Petrie, it started with cultural pressure, unchecked hustle, and a crushing secret: the dental practice he just bought was bankrupt. With no mentors and bills piling up, he pushed harder until cancer, divorce, and suicidal thoughts forced him to stop pretending.
In this raw and powerful episode, Arvind opens up about what it really looks like to hit bottom while looking like you've made it. He shares how therapy, spiritual reconnection, and men’s groups helped him peel off the mask and reclaim his life.
Now engaged and healing, Arvind speaks to every man who’s been told to be strong by staying silent.
His story is a reminder: vulnerability is strength, and asking for help might just save your life.
Listen now and if this resonates, share it with someone who needs to hear they're not alone.
👉 Connect with Dr. Petrie on Instagram and Facebook: @dr_arvind_j_petrie
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This episode is for every man that has silently
struggled behind the mask ofsuccess.
Dr Arvid Petrie is pulling backthe veil.
Dr Petrie is a father, yourdentist.
(00:42):
Father're a friend.
I've known you for I was tryingto calculate on the way over
here seven years that we'veknown each other.
You've also been a wonderfulfriend to my late husband and I
still remember very vividlycalling you when I announced the
terrible, awful news that myhusband had died by suicide, and
(01:03):
how you had shared yourstruggles and you have stood by
my side.
It's been three years now and Ijust want to say thank you.
Thank you for your supportthroughout my journey and I'm so
honored that you're ready toshare your story now.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Yeah well, you've given some gifts, melissa, to
your story your struggle, thetraumas that came from Scott's
passing and what's happened fromthat, but you've turned that
into purpose and that's beenhighly enjoyable to watch from
the outside, from my perspectiveand even my spouse's, and we
salute you, we support you andwe're here for a reason, and I
(01:44):
remember meeting you in DC in2017.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Yeah, is that what it was?
Yeah, that was fun.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
And then, there was.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Bahamas.
I remember Bahamas too.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
That was a lot of fun .
A lot of life lived in the lastseven years, but a lot of life
left to live.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Absolutely Well, I'd love to start by the beginning
kind of your childhood and also,have you always wanted to?
Speaker 3 (02:12):
be a dentist, or was that something that was expected
of you?
You know, upbringing is alwaysinteresting, especially when you
come from Middle Eastern orEastern parents.
My dad is born here.
He's passed on some years backMother's from India.
So growing up, us three boys,there was a lot of expectation I
don't want to put itnecessarily expectation, but
indoctrination of, hey, there'sgoing to be a level of success.
(02:32):
That is expected.
And we always joke in the Indianculture you're going to be the
engineer, you're going to be thedoctor or you're going to be
the attorney.
I think there's a subliminalfourth if you're going to go
into finance.
I heard that's acceptable nowtoo in modern culture.
And to that regard, my dad wasan engineer, my brothers are
engineer and I became aphysician through my own right.
But growing up I would actuallygive my mother most credit for
(02:59):
why I wanted to be a dentist,and it was from an early age.
I mean, I've got pictures backfrom probably second grade, so
whatever age about 10 years olddrawing pictures of my office.
And at least I was smart enoughto know I liked cars and I had
a red Ferrari.
No, I ended up getting a redtruck, not the red Ferrari, I
got the Ford, but I had thesethings since a very, very young
age, so since about 10, that Iknew that I wanted to and I
(03:21):
pursued this career intodentistry, especially not just
medicine but dentistry.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
And then, uh, do you, once you became a dentist, can
you kind of tell us your story?
Speaker 3 (03:33):
I know you had dealt with, you know, cancer and
divorce, you know yeah, I'll, uh, I'll go into all of that
because you know my story isinteresting.
I don't necessarily know that Iwould wish the same path that I
took on others, because everysingle mistake I can think of or
(03:53):
hardship along the way I feellike I've experienced to some
degree.
But that's by my own choosingor just by the default
necessities of life.
But I'm coming up here.
I'll be 42 this July,celebrating my birthday.
I went to University ofPittsburgh General School.
I applied throughout thecountry.
I had a lot of acceptances inEast Coast.
I spent four wonderful yearsout pit.
(04:14):
I have a lot of great memoriesthere, great friendships, great
curriculum and good feedbackcoming out of that education.
I came back home, pursued aresidency in Spokane, Washington
.
That's where Gonzaga, my oldestdaughter, will be going to
school here in the fall time andfor a while I was trying to
figure out what I wanted to do,because you always think about
(04:35):
specialty.
I mean there's a lot of stressto get a dental school just by
its default, the fact thatyou're in a competitive program
and your entire education fromwhen you're young to when you're
into your teenage and youryoung adolescence.
I mean it's competition andthat's something that is
indoctrinated in you and I thinkit stays.
A lot of docs is there's aconstant like fear of comparison
(04:55):
.
There's this edgy culture whereyou're just always trying to
get ahead and going through that.
I don't necessarily know that Ihad the best undergrad
experience, because there wasalways that fear am I good
enough?
Am I going to get accepted?
Am I going to make it to theuniversities?
And I had some denials fromsome universities I really
wanted to get into and thatreally hits the ego.
(05:17):
But I had acceptances.
I went to Pitt, came back home,went to Spokane.
It was during those residencythat I started to realize I had
a really good didactic withchildren.
I worked with some of the kidsthrough the program.
I was very good at it.
I applied to residency.
I was accepted to head actuallyback to Pittsburgh to do
pediatrics there and I rescindedthat residency application and
(05:37):
offer a couple of months beforeI was set to move my family back
at the time.
Then I started working inprivate practice.
I had a great associateposition.
I was running a satelliteoffice by myself a year and a
half out of school, which Ithink was a lot At the time.
I don't think we understandwhere we're at in our careers
(05:58):
and what we're capable of, whatwe're not capable of.
And I look back now thinkingman, I was 27 years old, thrown
into a private practice with nooversight and hell, no real
education on business, on someof the leadership aspects of
running a small team, all thesethings with business ownership,
that we don't have enoughtraining on a dental school and
that's not to fault or blame theuniversity system.
(06:19):
There's a lot of didactics, alot of information has to be
stuffed within a short period oftime, so it's kind of an all
you can eat buffet and yourplates are coming and you're
trying to take little bits, asmuch as you can, before it
clears down that conveyor belt.
So that was a great experienceand at the time my previous
spouse was not happy where wewere at and there was some early
struggles in marriage and thefamily.
(06:42):
That led me to start lookingfor a practice back in Western
Washington, where I'm originallyfrom, and I linked up with a
doctor.
This is 2013.
So just two and a half years outof my graduation and at 29
years old, I bought my firstpractice and I actually bought a
practice before I ever bought ahome.
And that same month I bought ahome, moved the whole family
(07:03):
over and it was just a lot overa little amount of time, and
that, to me, was awesome.
I was feeling on top of theworld.
I'm like here I am, I'm 29years old, I'm a shotgunner.
I'm a gunner, I'm good at myrelationships Not sure I know
anything about dentistry yet,but I'm really good at
relationships and hopped into avery, very established practice
(07:32):
that was actually a sinking shipand that was something that I
wouldn't wish upon my youngerself and other docs, because I
didn't have any oversight.
There was nobody telling me heyPetrie, hey Arvind, maybe you
don't want to buy this practicefor these reasons, Maybe you
shouldn't do this for thesereasons.
Maybe you should do this forthese reasons, practice for
these reasons.
Maybe you shouldn't do this forthese reasons, Maybe you should
do this for these reasons.
And I blindly stepped in, goingoff the advice of the brokers,
consultants that I was using,and stepped in my first practice
(07:53):
.
Things were great, as I thought.
And then, two months into myfirst position, my first year, I
was bankrupt and we werenegative cash flow.
We weren't making any money andI thought, man, what have I
done to go within three monthsfrom having a great position,
making good money, having a goodlife to.
I don't know how to pay mybills.
I don't know how to pay my teammembers I've.
(08:14):
I don't even know how to likepay the rent next month.
I mean, it's a lot of stuff ona on an, honestly, a 30 year old
young man and at this point,with two children.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
I don't think a lot of people realize that with
dentistry, especially in theearly times, that they could be
struggling.
They could have the big officebut just the overhead and your
student loans.
And you said you just had moved, bought a house.
That alone was just too much.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Life was happening super, super fast and you know,
the benefit and the blessing oftoday's younger doctors and
physicians is there's a there'sa good amount of community out
there.
Right, social media wasn'tnecessarily a big thing when I
came out.
Yeah, we had some, someFacebook, I don't think
Instagram was around, but wedidn't necessarily have these
support groups.
There was coaching, there wasprofessional groups out there
(09:01):
within reach, but there wasn't alot of communication, there
wasn't a lot of community.
So I kind of felt like I was onan island by myself.
I didn't have anybodynecessarily turned to.
I didn't have anybody in familyin business.
I had nobody in dentistry inbusiness.
I was the only one in my circle, a friend group, that bought a
practice so quick out of school.
So my advice circle, my counsel, was very small and that is
(09:25):
something that I wish I didn'thave.
But at the same time it pushedme into figuring shit out.
To be honest, I made a lot ofmistakes, picked up associate
jobs and the one thing that Icould do was I could work, and I
blessed my dad for this becausehe was a hard worker.
So he gave me that mindset that, at the end of the day, like a
man works and as much as that'sa blessing, it's also kind of a
(09:47):
curse, right, because we workand we work and we work.
But that comes at a cost, whichobviously came to cost me.
So I got a couple of positionson the side.
I worked through that.
You know it took about two yearsto really get the practice
right to where we were cashflowand positive.
(10:09):
I was actually starting tounderstand what overhead meant.
I mean, that's a key term thatI had no freaking idea what what
overhead was from a businessperspective.
I just looked at the oldnumbers, the old doc, and said,
okay, that looks like good money.
If I come on, that's exactlywhat's going to happen.
But that's not what happened,because now you have insurance
write-off from a fee-for-servicepractice to a heavy, heavy PPO
practice.
So all the profits were cut offby signing that contract with
(10:32):
the various insurance companies.
But, like I said, this isn'tcoming from a place of
complaining but a place ofunderstanding, like what were
the steps that I had gonethrough?
What were the steps that I hadgone through?
But after two years andgrinding hard, doing five, six
days a week, um, we started toget to a place of stability and
some more income and startedbuilding branding.
(10:52):
And then of January 2015 waswhen I'd gone in for some pain
and in my abdomen and met withthe urologist, took a, took a
quick CAT scan, but what do theydo with the ultrasound?
Yeah, to see the babies, took anultrasound 10-second
(11:14):
examination and kind of sat upand said, okay, arvin, well I
got an opening tomorrow at 9o'clock in the surgery bay.
We'll get you in and we'll getthe cancer removed and we'll
talk about post-operative andany chemo radiation will be
needed.
And I was like Frank Frank Kim,my urologist.
I'm like hold on a second.
What Cancer?
(11:37):
Not what I was prepared for.
I thought we were gonna talkabout a hernia, maybe something
like that, or too much stress.
So it was a lot to go on inthose first couple of years here
and it was tough, I'm not gonnalie.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Because in those two years that you were grinding the
five, six days a week and youhad, you said, a young family at
the same time, so you probablydidn't have a lot of time to
take care of you On top of that.
I had a practice, I had twomortgages, I had people that
relied on me, I had a team thatrelied on me and leading up to
that now that if you go back tothose times before your
(12:12):
diagnosis, were there littlewhispers that you can remember
to like slow down or to startingthings were starting to ache,
or little signs not just yet,but also I wasn't looking for
the signs of the breadcrumbsyeah I wasn't looking to see.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
Hey, I'm coming home on the weekend and I'm checking
out, right.
I'm not present with my family.
I'm I'm drinking, I'm watchingmovies, I'm I'm sedating,
whatever that may look like like.
I don't realize that that wasjust a hey.
Now.
I've had a hard work week.
I need to get get some time formyself.
I did know I started taking alot of baths and that's still
like that way of like comingdown and like separating out.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Um but that was where you're coming home and then
just checking out.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
Yeah, yeah, just checking out, but just coming
home and being angry I think youknow a little bit about that.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Just overwhelmed yeah .
Speaker 3 (13:08):
Yeah, because you know we have so many energy
units or so many F's to give forthe day, and then we start
borrowing from our internalbackup store and that comes at a
cost too.
But again, I was too young and,honestly, too immature to
understand what that meant andto realize that.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
But the signs were probably there and it wasn't to
slow down.
I mean, all I knew was hey, ifyou've got so much stuff to do
in so many hours, you just grind, you just grind because you're
young, right?
Speaker 1 (13:35):
See?
I think a lot of people thatare young, they're like maybe
late twenties, and they're like,well, I'm young, I can grind.
You know, I know Scott did that, you know, graduated 26 and
he's six days a week for I don'tknow how many years.
It's like, well, I could justgrind.
But the same thing kind ofhappens.
You know you have nothing elseto give.
And, um, and I'm sure at thetime your ex-wife, she was kind
(14:00):
of noticing that you're notpresent and things like that.
And like if a wife is listeningright now and they're seeing
their husband kind of grinding,like that, is there a message
that you could tell them?
That could be helpful so thehusband could see that he needs
to slow down, like it.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
This is a different context.
You know the song.
Stand by your man.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
The pardon.
Can you repeat that?
Speaker 3 (14:26):
There's a song Stand by your man.
It's a classic 60-year-oldcountry song.
Okay, it's a different context,but that is something I would
tell for the wives or thesupporting partners.
It's like you know, stand byyour man, give him something,
even when he doesn't necessarilydeserve it.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
But you know he he needs that support yeah, but is
there a way that we can, youknow, provide them where the
slowing down?
Because that's just wasobviously too much for you to
work, the six days a week andthe grinding?
At that point, was thereanything that could have changed
your mind to slow down or tonotice that this would be not
(15:06):
sustainable?
Speaker 3 (15:08):
Well, I think just helping support individuals and
find out how do they need thatsupport?
Do they need support from time,from better nutrition?
Do they need support physically, like can I come do certain
things?
Do I need support taking careof the home, children, other
responsibilities?
What can I do to offload yourburden?
(15:28):
You know, because men aretaught from a historical
standpoint.
Just take the, it's yourproblem yeah, like the superman,
you know.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
I, I know for scott was the same thing, like, oh,
I've got it, I'm just a littleoverwhelmed, but I've got it,
you know, I know for Scott wasthe same thing, like, oh, I've
got it, I'm just a littleoverwhelmed, but I've got it.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
You know was often kind of yeah, because sometimes
I mean I don't want to say it'san addiction, but at least for
me I'll speak on my behalf, eventhough I think this is common
with a lot of the malearchetypes that I align with was
there's this like badge ofhonor, that like nobody can
(16:06):
outwork me and I can just grindharder and it's like, okay,
let's see what much I can do.
But again you're pulling fromother parts of you that are
being neglected and there's adark side to that, because you
can only pull so much energy andit has to come be fulfilled by
other ways.
And I think that's where thedichotomy comes into place for a
(16:26):
lot of men that give too muchand now they are incomplete,
they are lacking, and they'regonna find ways to either cover
it, sedate it, stuff it down orwait for that violent emotional
eruption.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
Yeah.
So when you got your diagnosisand how long were you doing
chemo treatments for, did thatchange your point of view of the
grinding when you went back towork after that?
Speaker 3 (16:54):
You know there was, I think, when I got my diagnosis.
It's interesting becauseobviously I was scared.
You know, I'm 31 years old andI've got cancer and I don't know
what that means.
Right, I was stage two, soearly enough, and I caught it
and, good lesson there was hey,my body was telling me something
was off.
And it took me a four months.
I went in and finally said, hey, it doesn't feel right, let's
check it out.
But it's not the lesson that Ineeded to slow down.
(17:20):
It was more of the, this feelingof like anger, like why me, you
know, and anger that I don'thave the ability not to work.
I'm the only income earner inthe family.
You know, I've got debts andresponsibility and I have a.
I have an integrity in thesense that I always pay my debts
.
You know, I don't short peoplemoney.
I pay my bills.
(17:41):
I.
That's something I was raisedlike.
You got to pay your bills.
You know, if I don't shortpeople money, I pay my bills I.
That's something I was raisedlike.
You got to pay your bills.
You know, if you don't pay yourbills, you're a piece of you
know what.
So, coming from that it was.
It wasn't necessarily sadness.
It's just like I can't taketime off and I was angry about
that, because I'm angry in thesense that I couldn't care for
myself, I think I I mean Iessentially took about a week
(18:03):
off from work because I had to.
I had surgery, I was in physicalpain.
I couldn't do my ops.
I had some great support by myoral surgeon and the doctors
around me to at least take oversome of the emergent care.
I couldn't do but going throughthe chemotherapy which I did
for about two months.
I did two rounds, which wasrecommended by the oncology team
(18:24):
.
I worked through the chemorounds.
I would do my chemo on Thursdayand then I would have actually
no, I did my chemo on Fridaybecause I was still five days a
week then and then I'd have theweekend to kind of recover here
a little bit, which sounded likefalse omen because they
injected you with some steroidsduring your chemotherapy.
So on your infusion days youfeel pretty good.
The morning after you feel likeyou just got back from a
(18:47):
terrible rave and got drugged,and those are rough weekends and
I remember vivid times,especially during the early part
of the weeks after the chemorounds and going into work and I
was vomiting between patients.
I kind of would have to excusemyself when I got to a certain
degree, but I worked betweenthem.
I didn't tell people about it.
The team was very supportive atthe time, um, but I but I
brought back on essentially afull schedule and work through
(19:08):
it.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Wow, wow, that's incredible.
I mean, that's sad that youcouldn't.
You felt like there was noother way.
You were like, well, nobodyelse can pay the bills, I have
to work, and so you couldn'ttake that time to truly heal.
You know that your body neededthe rest and I think a lot of
men feel that pressure.
I know Scott felt that when hewas one month, you know, where
(19:30):
he couldn't work because of hisback, and that was really scary
for him.
You know he did have anassociate at that time, but
still it is very scary and Iknow a lot of men you know go
through that as well and thenthey think they're going to lose
everything you know.
And so tell me after I know youhad dealt, shared your story
(19:53):
with suicide ideation Did thatcome afterwards, after your
diagnosis, or what's thetimeline?
Speaker 3 (19:56):
No, that was.
You know, that ended up comingfrom my personal experience.
So later on during my careeryou know, I was married in 2010
and about 2017, I was startingto really have some struggles in
my personal marriage.
You know, this is a deeperconversation I think that we'll
(20:16):
have time for, but there wassome major struggles and feeling
lack of support in many waysand, at a core issue was a real
lack of respect, you know, and Ithink that was probably the
nail in the coffin in terms ofwhy I exited my marriage, you
know, and that happened in 2020.
It was the same time when COVIDhad kind of struck and hit and
(20:38):
things had been really bad.
The year prior, we had thebirth of our third child, my son
, in 2018, which was a wonderfulblessing, but there was
definitely some recourseafterwards here, a lot of
disconnection as a couple and,going through that time, there
was a lot of loneliness that wasstarting to be experienced by
(20:59):
myself and I think when you'rein a box in life, you don't
necessarily see where you're at,and it actually took some
friends on the outside with you,like social posts and whatnot,
and would make comments and sayyou know, marvin, you ever
notice that you're always withyour kids or you're always alone
.
You know there's reasons behindthem.
I'm not here to to talknegative on my ex-spouse or
(21:21):
anything of that nature, butthat was something that I had
started to realize.
Yeah, I feel pretty alone.
I mean, this is a reason why ina lot of marriages and in
whatever reasons was, there's acertain level of loneliness or
detachment or lack of unity andconnection together and there's
definitely a disconnection and Ididn't understand what was
happening necessarily whydefinitely a disconnection, and
(21:45):
I didn't understand what washappening necessarily why.
And this in 2019 was a timeframethat things really started to
take a twist and we were goingthrough a lot of the time.
We had a new child I was in theprocess of, I had bought
another practice and merged itin.
Business was going really wellnow and very busy Building a new
home, making a move, and wewere without residents between
the new build and the old homefor several months, bouncing
(22:06):
around between VRBOs, rentals.
We crouched cash essentially onfriends of ours home for almost
three, four months with a newboard.
So there was a lot of angeraround that and just hostility
and uncomfortability and thatreally spiraled down until the
end of 2019 and moving to ournew home, and we were pretty
(22:28):
disconnected and I didn't knowwhat was going on.
But I felt some things in myheart and I'd gotten to a place
where, just when you're in a andyou've been here, mel when
you're in a relationship andyou're disconnected from your
partner and you start asking isit, you know, what is it wrong
with me?
We start putting the blame onourselves.
I think a lot of people do.
You know, if you're truly anarcissistic person, you're
(22:51):
going to blame the other and say, well, this is this isn't me,
it's you Right.
So for me, there was a lot ofself-internal reflection like
how messed up am I, you know?
And you start to feel reallyalone.
And this goes back to you knowearlier in my life, my story,
when I felt alone in thepractice and the business and
not knowing what to do.
And that's where I was.
And you try to numb it, you tryto stuff it down.
(23:14):
Men do this, women do this,everybody does it, whatever way.
It looks like disconnect, checkout, and I think, with the
idealization of suicide,something that starts to become
attractive, at least to me was.
I don't want to feel this wayanymore.
How can I really truly turnthis off?
(23:36):
And that can be end of lifetaking of life, and for me it
got to a very end of life takingof life.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
And for me it got to a very, very low point where I
tempted it and then for thatpoint, you know, I just feel
it's so sad because you feellike that's the only way out to
not feel that pain, even thoughyou know you're three beautiful
children.
But that's why it's so hard tounderstand for people.
But you explain it.
You're kind of in this prison,you know, and you know your
(24:10):
thoughts are spiraling andyou're just seeing that there's
just an immense amount of painand loneliness and you feel you
don't want to feel that anymore.
Speaker 3 (24:19):
Yeah, for me, I was tired.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
For me.
I was tired.
I was tired physically, I wastired Did you did you?
Speaker 1 (24:32):
did you have friends like notice that at all?
Or were you you?
Did you discuss those suicidalthoughts with anybody else close
to you?
No, no see, this is where Ithink a lot of men definitely
hide behind that mask.
You know, like they, you don't.
They don't talk about theinternal pain and struggles and
the suicidal thoughts until it'stoo late.
(24:55):
You know, I I can definitelyrelate to that.
I mean, I know you hadmentioned, you had talked to my
husband, you know, I think amonth before, a month or two
before he passed, because youcould tell he was, you know,
struggling, losing his dad andwhatnot, and you were kind of
hoping to connect with him andshow him that there's so much
love around him.
(25:16):
You know, so much to live for.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
You know I think it's tough because there's not a
playbook for this right.
You know I think it's toughbecause there's not a playbook
for this right.
We don't go through basic healthin ninth grade and learn about
anatomy, physiology, health, andsay, oh yeah, by the way,
here's a, let's talk aboutsuicide.
A lot of times too, you're likethat's not in my world, that's
not for me, right.
And as guys and my best friendcame to me and was just, at
least at that point, was like,yeah, by the way, I was off
(25:40):
myself Friday, I wouldn't knowwhat to do with that.
Obviously I'd care, I'd beconcerned, but as far as a
recipe, an answer, a tool, Iwouldn't have known what to say.
Besides, you should talk tosomebody and probe, but I don't
have an answer to that questionand I think that's probably why
(26:04):
people don't bring it up.
That's why I certainly didbring it up, not to mention the
shame around it.
Like look at this perfect lifenot perfect life but boats, cars
, house, kids, all of it and youwant to do, you want to cash
that in.
I mean, there's a lot of shamethat goes around that.
At least I felt that shame.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
And have you been able to work through that shame
since then, or do you still holdon to that?
Speaker 3 (26:29):
Yeah, I still hold on to it a little bit.
It's a process, right.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
It's a process that I don't think you ever write up
Just like the thoughts and youknow I've talked off camera with
this Like there's always.
There's always that littlenuance and attraction and and
perseverance of it, just beneaththe surface sometimes.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
Yeah, how did you move past?
Actually going through with itwith suicide, like you said?
You didn't reach out for help,you didn't tell anybody.
So can you tell me what madeyou change your mind and you
chose to live?
Speaker 3 (27:05):
several, several things.
But, um, I did one old playthat I knew was.
I got to work.
I knew that, I knew that, but Igot to work differently.
I started to read, I started tolearn, I started to understand,
I saw counselors, I sawtherapists, I joined men's
(27:27):
groups, I started a men's coachand, above and above, I got the
word.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
So you seeked help for yourself.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Yeah, which I'm so proud.
I'm so proud that you did and Iknow you're still working on
yourself and I know you've beena big voice on social media,
sharing your struggles.
Still now, and having thatvoice, I know you're inspiring
other men to do the same andremoving that veil and that
shame.
(27:55):
You know that shame, that, yeah, you're successful.
You have all the things thatmany wish they can have, but
it's okay to still feel all thatdarkness, that pain.
You know, I think a lot oftimes, yeah, they have a hard
time saying that they'restruggling because they look at
others and say well, I have allthese things, I shouldn't be
(28:15):
struggling.
But I think more successful menare and they feel alone.
And now tell me some of thethings that you've incorporated
in a daily basis to just keepthose thoughts at bay, or for
your own mental health, your owngrowth at this point, A part of
it's gratitude.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
You know just reframing how I look at life,
you know, not looking at thelack, working through you know
some of the coaching I've haddone and understanding that you
know we're given everything weneed.
It's already like, it's alreadypre-programmed, but the work is
(28:55):
in accessing it and sharing it.
You know we talk about darknessand light side and shadow work.
You know, once you've lit yourlight, as you know Mel, there's
going to be illumination onothers and through my own
experience, through you knowdivorce or health scares or
whatnot.
(29:15):
I mean I can't tell how manypeople have reached out in
private.
Yes.
It happens all the time.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Yeah it's always like I, even driving here to podcast
.
You know it's I, it's it'sgod's work, I always say because
it's just sharing a story and Iknow it'll impact so many.
You know, especially men thatare kind of behind that veil and
not sharing that they'restruggling and maybe you will.
(29:42):
You know, I know you will nudgesomeone to maybe either start
seeking help themselves ortelling a friend or finding
community.
You know we live in an era nowit is a little bit more, you
know, accessible and talkedabout, especially for for men,
where they don't have to pretendto be so strong for their
family.
You know, and, and I'm so, I'mso proud that you've done that
(30:06):
for yourself and your family andand I, if you can explain a
little bit kind of now, I knowyou've got, you know, a dentist,
but are you thinking of helpingother men along the way?
Like what's on your heartlately?
I know you've been sharing alot about your journey.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
A hundred percent.
I love helping others.
You know, whether it's youngdocs, men, men's work, it's hard
to you know women same thing,but it's a little bit different
when it comes from men, men'scoaching.
I have a huge passion in healthand wellness now and you know
my partner, jamie, is awesome inbeing a supportive role in that
(30:47):
.
And you know you asked partabout the healing.
Well, part of that is having akick-ass partner, you know, and
I like the jackpot.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
Yeah, you did, yeah, you did.
Jamie is incredible andcongratulations.
I know your wedding is comingsoon in September, so yeah, she
is.
Your wedding is coming soon inSeptember, so yeah, she is.
And she for her.
Her passion has been to helpmen that are fatherless right,
that grew up fatherless and thatwound and that really touched
my heart because that's my sonright and that's going to be a
(31:17):
wound that he continually workson.
I can never be that masculineenergy for him.
You know that figure.
But I know you know he'll haveplenty of mentors along the way.
You know friends, family thatwill be that part of him.
But it'll be important to still, yeah, work and guide him
(31:39):
through that.
So I love that Jamie is workingalongside with a lot of men
that are fatherless Well, womenweren't designed through that.
So I love that Jamie is workingalongside with a lot of men
that are fatherless.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
Well, women weren't designed for that and I think
there's a huge lacking inhealthy masculinity now in our
society, especially in thiscountry.
And I see it more so now thatI've gotten to the work and
started to see it and understandit and what those impacts could
or couldn't be.
But I do hold the menaccountable because at the end
of the day, it comes down to achoice.
It is your choice what you'regoing to do, nobody else's, and
(32:12):
it has to be the responsibilityof the individual to make that
decision, that choice and thatchange.
I chose that for myself, comingfrom a place of passion and
trauma and other ways, butknowing that I can't be victim
to that circumstance.
And I understand that nowbecause it's all about a mindset
change.
But you have to do the work.
That's the big exception.
(32:34):
Your job as a mother is not tobe the father.
We need healthy men, we needmen to heal, we need men to step
up as leaders and to do thatwork and understand that there's
a difference in the polaritybetween us and the women, and
strong male leadership issomething that I think is very
much needed in the family andthere's an effect when it's not.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
Yeah, absolutely Absolutely.
I couldn't agree more.
And I think for men, once theykind of share that veil and
speak their truth without shame,you know, then there's some
much freedom and happiness thatcan happen.
You know, look at you whereyou're at now, you know, and
about to get remarried and yourpractice is successful and
(33:17):
you're going to be.
You know, working with men andsharing your stories already
impacting so many, and I know wewill continue to do so.
I know I kind of mentioned thatbefore but if you know, men
will be listening right now, menthat might be going through a
divorce.
You know suicidal thoughts andjust struggling with a lot of
(33:39):
the identity.
Right, if they're losing theiridentity, their practice is not
doing well or they're changingprofessions I think you kind of
mentioned it a little bit.
But what would be a messagethat you're speaking to them
right now?
What would be that hope thatinspired them to work on
themselves?
Speaker 3 (33:59):
You know, at the core , the main message is that on
the other side of that door is aworld of possibilities.
The problem is that we can'tsee past the door unless we open
it.
We walk through it, we changethe frame on how we see our
lives, we do the work and we getrid of self-limiting beliefs.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
Yes, amen.
Speaker 3 (34:26):
Because it comes down to the fact that we are in
control of our own lives.
Pick it through divineintervention, environment
doesn't matter.
But you have a life, you have asoul and you have a choice.
So it comes down to youdeciding what do you want for
(34:46):
your life, what do you want foryou, and stepping into that
power and utilizing resources inorder to embrace it, Whether
that's the church, yourfriendships, your own children,
your family, your groups.
But getting in that communityand letting go and fear.
But that's the gift.
And that was and again, I'mspeaking from my past and my
(35:10):
decisions, because once Idecided to make that change,
that's when the abundancystarted to come in, like what's
possible?
And now I got a.
You know, I got a taste ofsomething different.
And now that almost became agood, healthy addiction, because
now it says, hey, what isactually possible?
(35:33):
And that will excite you morethan anything else when you
start to realize like there is aanother outcome, there is a
potential outcome I had not seenbefore.
There are things that I nowtell myself, I never told myself
before and that leads to placesof just power.
And you asked a question earlierabout next phase of life.
(35:55):
Well, that's.
That's part of a purpose whereI feel called to do more than
just the clinical dentistry andI feel powerfully positioned to
do so.
You know, there's always asense of fear, because fear, at
the end, is the the driver ofnot doing something or doing
something.
And there is still fear, Like,can I do this?
(36:16):
Is this what I'm supposed to do?
If I step away from somethingthat is very productive I'm good
at and go into another field,what does that mean?
You know?
And in the same measure I telleverybody it's like fuck fear.
You got one life to live.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
Live it.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
Absolutely.
Yeah, I feel like a lot ofdentists if they decide they
feel kind of stuck, If theydon't want to do that anymore.
That first step of steppingaway something that's so secure
you know they have it, but thatsomething else is calling them
taking that first step.
But what I've seen for myself,other people when you're
following that purpose, you knowthat abundance will come, you
(36:56):
know, and you'll be so ignitedwith that fire because it's your
purpose and there's so much joywhen that comes, you know when
you're in alignment, and so Ilove that.
you shared that, and I'm excitedfor you.
Speaker 3 (37:10):
Here's the dirty little secret about it.
You might actually have funagain.
Yes, I know, or you might nothave had fun for a while.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
I yes.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
And that's like this is fun.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
Actually that was my.
I had a new year's resolution,it was what, 2024, and I was
like, okay, it had been twoyears since my husband passed.
I'm like, okay, I'm gonna allowmyself to have fun again, you
know, because there was kind ofa bit of that guilt and we kind
of forget as adults to have funand our kids are great reminders
to just come and play.
You know how often our kids saycome play with me and to allow
(37:50):
to be creative and playful, likeyou know.
Now I'm like I love dancing,like go do that, you know, and
enjoy, you know, the nature andoutdoors.
And so, yeah, go have fun again.
I like that.
Speaker 3 (38:02):
Life.
You know, we have fiduciaryresponsibilities and, as the
male archetype and leader,there's a lot of
responsibilities that we carry.
It's a lot centered around theproduction and the provision and
the money and whatnot, but somehas to be centered around the
aspect of joy, right, and I'm ina season now where understand
that, like I'm, I'm looking torecreate more joy and more peace
(38:25):
in my life, because it was waytoo chaotic.
Yeah, and young men, youngentrepreneurs, even young women,
it doesn't matter like there'sa lot that is caught up in that
grind, that we're not slowingdown and realizing that we're
missing out on life.
We're missing out.
Boy children aren't easy, godknows.
I got teenage girls and I wantto strangle them half the time.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
I love them I've got an 11 year old.
Speaker 3 (38:48):
That's pretty much going into 16, so I know I know
how you feel yeah, that that's atough one, you know there's
there's no playbook on it no butI know, as their dad, I'm in
their life and I'm going toraise them right and I'm going
to be a huge instrument in therole that they play in terms how
they they grow up, who theymarry, how they show up as a
spouse and a partner.
Speaker 1 (39:10):
Yeah, you're guiding a legacy.
You know they're going to lookup to you and see what you've
done and the work that you'vedone for yourself, and they're
going to want to meet a spousethat have done the same.
You know, done some work andemotional intelligence, and so
that's so important that you'releaving that legacy for for your
kids and and it's hard to findthat balance though right, but
(39:31):
we all need that harmony, thatbalance.
You know I see it now.
You know being a single momfighting that balance, even
though I, you know my drive formy, my career and but still be
so present and be on top of allthe bills and all the things,
that gets overwhelming, but Istill make time for fun and for
(39:54):
self care, you know.
Speaker 3 (39:56):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
Absolutely.
That's why sometimes theweekends I'm like oh, I check
out.
You know, I take my baths, mysauna, my red light oh gosh, Red
light, I did red light before Icome here.
I do that on a regular basis.
I sauna almost every night.
I put the kids to bed and Isauna.
So yeah, just adding thoselittle I.
(40:17):
You know, this morning I did mymeditation with my son, and my
daughter sleeps in till 10.
So she, she was enough to dothat.
But yeah, all those littlethings really help because, like
you said, fear will alwayscreep in shame, guilt, and to
keep those at bay we have tocontinuously do the work.
Speaker 3 (40:38):
You know that's.
You hit it on the head therebecause that, like I said, that
dark is always within us.
It's a dichotomy in eachindividual.
You know it's.
Who do you choose to feed?
Because part of what youmentioned was was work, and it
is work.
But here's the change Like thework is good, it's not supposed
(40:59):
to always be easy and I trulyfeel, if you accept that, if you
accept that role, if you acceptthese roles in our lives and
the work that comes along withit, as strenuous it is, it is a
gift and stop looking at it as acurse or a burden.
A lot of the work is a gift, andit's a good thing.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
Yeah, Say thank you, Right, Thank you.
I actually one thing too.
I was told okay, say thank youto all you.
Speaker 3 (41:26):
I actually one thing too I was told okay, say thank
you to all these bills.
Thank you, thank you, I'm gonnapay these bills and thank you,
I forgot that one.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
My credit card expired oh, you know, really
trying well, how can people findyou?
Because, uh, I always love yourposts as you share your heart
and I know you touch a lot ofpeople, and so how they can find
you.
Speaker 3 (41:47):
You know I'm on socials.
You'll see me on FacebookInstagram business page of Best
Dentist Tacoma and my personaland my main platform at Dr
Arvind J Petrie.
You'll see me on Instagram aswell, too, and come connect.
You know, Dr Arvin J Petrie,You'll see me on Instagram as
well, too, and come connect.
You know, send me a DM, send mea message.
(42:08):
I'd love to share more.
I'd love to hear your story.
I think one of the greatestgifts in life is the exchange of
information and ourcommunication and who we meet
along the way.
You know, in the late AnthonyBourdain, I think, hit this on
the nail in his life and hisexpeditions that he was doing
and, if you get a chance to readsome of his stuff and see his
biography, Troubled Soul, but hegot it.
He really understood the humanconnection aspect and that is
(42:32):
something I love and meetingpeople where they're at.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
Yeah, me too.
Me too, I love getting to knowpeople, their stories and, yeah,
no more surface talk.
I want to dig into their, theirstory and their struggles and
see where they're at Well.
Thank you so much for takingthe time to be on and share your
story and again, thank you foryour friendship and for being
(42:57):
there for me and my family, youknow, and.
I know you were there for.
Scott as well, and he loved you.
Speaker 3 (43:06):
I loved him too.
He taught me some great thingsabout him that I did not know,
and I was.
I always loved Scott for that,because no matter where he was
at, if you needed a hand or somehelp, that man would give it.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
Yeah, he was the most generous man.
Absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (43:22):
Well, thank you for having me on.
Speaker 1 (43:24):
What did you say?
Thank?
You for having me on.
Oh, yes, You're welcome you.
This episode is for every man that has silently
struggled behind the mask ofsuccess.
Dr Arvid Petrie is pulling backthe veil.
Dr Petrie is a father, yourdentist.
(00:42):
Father're a friend.
I've known you for I was tryingto calculate on the way over
here seven years that we'veknown each other.
You've also been a wonderfulfriend to my late husband and I
still remember very vividlycalling you when I announced the
terrible, awful news that myhusband had died by suicide, and
(01:03):
how you had shared yourstruggles and you have stood by
my side.
It's been three years now and Ijust want to say thank you.
Thank you for your supportthroughout my journey and I'm so
honored that you're ready toshare your story now.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Yeah well, you've given some gifts, melissa, to
your story your struggle, thetraumas that came from Scott's
passing and what's happened fromthat, but you've turned that
into purpose and that's beenhighly enjoyable to watch from
the outside, from my perspectiveand even my spouse's, and we
salute you, we support you andwe're here for a reason, and I
(01:44):
remember meeting you in DC in2017.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Yeah, is that what it was?
Yeah, that was fun.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
And then, there was.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Bahamas.
I remember Bahamas too.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
That was a lot of fun .
A lot of life lived in the lastseven years, but a lot of life
left to live.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Absolutely Well, I'd love to start by the beginning
kind of your childhood and also,have you always wanted to?
Speaker 3 (02:12):
be a dentist, or was that something that was expected
of you?
You know, upbringing is alwaysinteresting, especially when you
come from Middle Eastern orEastern parents.
My dad is born here.
He's passed on some years backMother's from India.
So growing up, us three boys,there was a lot of expectation I
don't want to put itnecessarily expectation, but
indoctrination of, hey, there'sgoing to be a level of success.
(02:32):
That is expected.
And we always joke in the Indianculture you're going to be the
engineer, you're going to be thedoctor or you're going to be
the attorney.
I think there's a subliminalfourth if you're going to go
into finance.
I heard that's acceptable nowtoo in modern culture.
And to that regard, my dad wasan engineer, my brothers are
engineer and I became aphysician through my own right.
But growing up I would actuallygive my mother most credit for
(02:59):
why I wanted to be a dentist,and it was from an early age.
I mean, I've got pictures backfrom probably second grade, so
whatever age about 10 years olddrawing pictures of my office.
And at least I was smart enoughto know I liked cars and I had
a red Ferrari.
No, I ended up getting a redtruck, not the red Ferrari, I
got the Ford, but I had thesethings since a very, very young
age, so since about 10, that Iknew that I wanted to and I
(03:21):
pursued this career intodentistry, especially not just
medicine but dentistry.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
And then, uh, do you, once you became a dentist, can
you kind of tell us your story?
Speaker 3 (03:33):
I know you had dealt with, you know, cancer and
divorce, you know yeah, I'll, uh, I'll go into all of that
because you know my story isinteresting.
I don't necessarily know that Iwould wish the same path that I
took on others, because everysingle mistake I can think of or
(03:53):
hardship along the way I feellike I've experienced to some
degree.
But that's by my own choosingor just by the default
necessities of life.
But I'm coming up here.
I'll be 42 this July,celebrating my birthday.
I went to University ofPittsburgh General School.
I applied throughout thecountry.
I had a lot of acceptances inEast Coast.
I spent four wonderful yearsout pit.
(04:14):
I have a lot of great memoriesthere, great friendships, great
curriculum and good feedbackcoming out of that education.
I came back home, pursued aresidency in Spokane, Washington
.
That's where Gonzaga, my oldestdaughter, will be going to
school here in the fall time andfor a while I was trying to
figure out what I wanted to do,because you always think about
(04:35):
specialty.
I mean there's a lot of stressto get a dental school just by
its default, the fact thatyou're in a competitive program
and your entire education fromwhen you're young to when you're
into your teenage and youryoung adolescence.
I mean it's competition andthat's something that is
indoctrinated in you and I thinkit stays.
A lot of docs is there's aconstant like fear of comparison
(04:55):
.
There's this edgy culture whereyou're just always trying to
get ahead and going through that.
I don't necessarily know that Ihad the best undergrad
experience, because there wasalways that fear am I good
enough?
Am I going to get accepted?
Am I going to make it to theuniversities?
And I had some denials fromsome universities I really
wanted to get into and thatreally hits the ego.
(05:17):
But I had acceptances.
I went to Pitt, came back home,went to Spokane.
It was during those residencythat I started to realize I had
a really good didactic withchildren.
I worked with some of the kidsthrough the program.
I was very good at it.
I applied to residency.
I was accepted to head actuallyback to Pittsburgh to do
pediatrics there and I rescindedthat residency application and
(05:37):
offer a couple of months beforeI was set to move my family back
at the time.
Then I started working inprivate practice.
I had a great associateposition.
I was running a satelliteoffice by myself a year and a
half out of school, which Ithink was a lot At the time.
I don't think we understandwhere we're at in our careers
(05:58):
and what we're capable of, whatwe're not capable of.
And I look back now thinkingman, I was 27 years old, thrown
into a private practice with nooversight and hell, no real
education on business, on someof the leadership aspects of
running a small team, all thesethings with business ownership,
that we don't have enoughtraining on a dental school and
that's not to fault or blame theuniversity system.
(06:19):
There's a lot of didactics, alot of information has to be
stuffed within a short period oftime, so it's kind of an all
you can eat buffet and yourplates are coming and you're
trying to take little bits, asmuch as you can, before it
clears down that conveyor belt.
So that was a great experienceand at the time my previous
spouse was not happy where wewere at and there was some early
struggles in marriage and thefamily.
(06:42):
That led me to start lookingfor a practice back in Western
Washington, where I'm originallyfrom, and I linked up with a
doctor.
This is 2013.
So just two and a half years outof my graduation and at 29
years old, I bought my firstpractice and I actually bought a
practice before I ever bought ahome.
And that same month I bought ahome, moved the whole family
(07:03):
over and it was just a lot overa little amount of time, and
that, to me, was awesome.
I was feeling on top of theworld.
I'm like here I am, I'm 29years old, I'm a shotgunner.
I'm a gunner, I'm good at myrelationships Not sure I know
anything about dentistry yet,but I'm really good at
relationships and hopped into avery, very established practice
(07:32):
that was actually a sinking shipand that was something that I
wouldn't wish upon my youngerself and other docs, because I
didn't have any oversight.
There was nobody telling me heyPetrie, hey Arvind, maybe you
don't want to buy this practicefor these reasons, Maybe you
shouldn't do this for thesereasons.
Maybe you should do this forthese reasons, practice for
these reasons.
Maybe you shouldn't do this forthese reasons, Maybe you should
do this for these reasons.
And I blindly stepped in, goingoff the advice of the brokers,
consultants that I was using,and stepped in my first practice
(07:53):
.
Things were great, as I thought.
And then, two months into myfirst position, my first year, I
was bankrupt and we werenegative cash flow.
We weren't making any money andI thought, man, what have I
done to go within three monthsfrom having a great position,
making good money, having a goodlife to.
I don't know how to pay mybills.
I don't know how to pay my teammembers I've.
(08:14):
I don't even know how to likepay the rent next month.
I mean, it's a lot of stuff ona on an, honestly, a 30 year old
young man and at this point,with two children.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
I don't think a lot of people realize that with
dentistry, especially in theearly times, that they could be
struggling.
They could have the big officebut just the overhead and your
student loans.
And you said you just had moved, bought a house.
That alone was just too much.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Life was happening super, super fast and you know,
the benefit and the blessing oftoday's younger doctors and
physicians is there's a there'sa good amount of community out
there.
Right, social media wasn'tnecessarily a big thing when I
came out.
Yeah, we had some, someFacebook, I don't think
Instagram was around, but wedidn't necessarily have these
support groups.
There was coaching, there wasprofessional groups out there
(09:01):
within reach, but there wasn't alot of communication, there
wasn't a lot of community.
So I kind of felt like I was onan island by myself.
I didn't have anybodynecessarily turned to.
I didn't have anybody in familyin business.
I had nobody in dentistry inbusiness.
I was the only one in my circle, a friend group, that bought a
practice so quick out of school.
So my advice circle, my counsel, was very small and that is
(09:25):
something that I wish I didn'thave.
But at the same time it pushedme into figuring shit out.
To be honest, I made a lot ofmistakes, picked up associate
jobs and the one thing that Icould do was I could work, and I
blessed my dad for this becausehe was a hard worker.
So he gave me that mindset that, at the end of the day, like a
man works and as much as that'sa blessing, it's also kind of a
(09:47):
curse, right, because we workand we work and we work.
But that comes at a cost, whichobviously came to cost me.
So I got a couple of positionson the side.
I worked through that.
You know it took about two yearsto really get the practice
right to where we were cashflowand positive.
(10:09):
I was actually starting tounderstand what overhead meant.
I mean, that's a key term thatI had no freaking idea what what
overhead was from a businessperspective.
I just looked at the oldnumbers, the old doc, and said,
okay, that looks like good money.
If I come on, that's exactlywhat's going to happen.
But that's not what happened,because now you have insurance
write-off from a fee-for-servicepractice to a heavy, heavy PPO
practice.
So all the profits were cut offby signing that contract with
(10:32):
the various insurance companies.
But, like I said, this isn'tcoming from a place of
complaining but a place ofunderstanding, like what were
the steps that I had gonethrough?
What were the steps that I hadgone through?
But after two years andgrinding hard, doing five, six
days a week, um, we started toget to a place of stability and
some more income and startedbuilding branding.
(10:52):
And then of January 2015 waswhen I'd gone in for some pain
and in my abdomen and met withthe urologist, took a, took a
quick CAT scan, but what do theydo with the ultrasound?
Yeah, to see the babies, took anultrasound 10-second
(11:14):
examination and kind of sat upand said, okay, arvin, well I
got an opening tomorrow at 9o'clock in the surgery bay.
We'll get you in and we'll getthe cancer removed and we'll
talk about post-operative andany chemo radiation will be
needed.
And I was like Frank Frank Kim,my urologist.
I'm like hold on a second.
What Cancer?
(11:37):
Not what I was prepared for.
I thought we were gonna talkabout a hernia, maybe something
like that, or too much stress.
So it was a lot to go on inthose first couple of years here
and it was tough, I'm not gonnalie.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Because in those two years that you were grinding the
five, six days a week and youhad, you said, a young family at
the same time, so you probablydidn't have a lot of time to
take care of you On top of that.
I had a practice, I had twomortgages, I had people that
relied on me, I had a team thatrelied on me and leading up to
that now that if you go back tothose times before your
(12:12):
diagnosis, were there littlewhispers that you can remember
to like slow down or to startingthings were starting to ache,
or little signs not just yet,but also I wasn't looking for
the signs of the breadcrumbsyeah I wasn't looking to see.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
Hey, I'm coming home on the weekend and I'm checking
out, right.
I'm not present with my family.
I'm I'm drinking, I'm watchingmovies, I'm I'm sedating,
whatever that may look like like.
I don't realize that that wasjust a hey.
Now.
I've had a hard work week.
I need to get get some time formyself.
I did know I started taking alot of baths and that's still
like that way of like comingdown and like separating out.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Um but that was where you're coming home and then
just checking out.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
Yeah, yeah, just checking out, but just coming
home and being angry I think youknow a little bit about that.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Just overwhelmed yeah .
Speaker 3 (13:08):
Yeah, because you know we have so many energy
units or so many F's to give forthe day, and then we start
borrowing from our internalbackup store and that comes at a
cost too.
But again, I was too young and,honestly, too immature to
understand what that meant andto realize that.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
But the signs were probably there and it wasn't to
slow down.
I mean, all I knew was hey, ifyou've got so much stuff to do
in so many hours, you just grind, you just grind because you're
young, right?
Speaker 1 (13:35):
See?
I think a lot of people thatare young, they're like maybe
late twenties, and they're like,well, I'm young, I can grind.
You know, I know Scott did that, you know, graduated 26 and
he's six days a week for I don'tknow how many years.
It's like, well, I could justgrind.
But the same thing kind ofhappens.
You know you have nothing elseto give.
And, um, and I'm sure at thetime your ex-wife, she was kind
(14:00):
of noticing that you're notpresent and things like that.
And like if a wife is listeningright now and they're seeing
their husband kind of grinding,like that, is there a message
that you could tell them?
That could be helpful so thehusband could see that he needs
to slow down, like it.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
This is a different context.
You know the song.
Stand by your man.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
The pardon.
Can you repeat that?
Speaker 3 (14:26):
There's a song Stand by your man.
It's a classic 60-year-oldcountry song.
Okay, it's a different context,but that is something I would
tell for the wives or thesupporting partners.
It's like you know, stand byyour man, give him something,
even when he doesn't necessarilydeserve it.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
But you know he he needs that support yeah, but is
there a way that we can, youknow, provide them where the
slowing down?
Because that's just wasobviously too much for you to
work, the six days a week andthe grinding?
At that point, was thereanything that could have changed
your mind to slow down or tonotice that this would be not
(15:06):
sustainable?
Speaker 3 (15:08):
Well, I think just helping support individuals and
find out how do they need thatsupport?
Do they need support from time,from better nutrition?
Do they need support physically, like can I come do certain
things?
Do I need support taking careof the home, children, other
responsibilities?
What can I do to offload yourburden?
(15:28):
You know, because men aretaught from a historical
standpoint.
Just take the, it's yourproblem yeah, like the superman,
you know.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
I, I know for scott was the same thing, like, oh,
I've got it, I'm just a littleoverwhelmed, but I've got it,
you know, I know for Scott wasthe same thing, like, oh, I've
got it, I'm just a littleoverwhelmed, but I've got it.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
You know was often kind of yeah, because sometimes
I mean I don't want to say it'san addiction, but at least for
me I'll speak on my behalf, eventhough I think this is common
with a lot of the malearchetypes that I align with was
there's this like badge ofhonor, that like nobody can
(16:06):
outwork me and I can just grindharder and it's like, okay,
let's see what much I can do.
But again you're pulling fromother parts of you that are
being neglected and there's adark side to that, because you
can only pull so much energy andit has to come be fulfilled by
other ways.
And I think that's where thedichotomy comes into place for a
(16:26):
lot of men that give too muchand now they are incomplete,
they are lacking, and they'regonna find ways to either cover
it, sedate it, stuff it down orwait for that violent emotional
eruption.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
Yeah.
So when you got your diagnosisand how long were you doing
chemo treatments for, did thatchange your point of view of the
grinding when you went back towork after that?
Speaker 3 (16:54):
You know there was, I think, when I got my diagnosis.
It's interesting becauseobviously I was scared.
You know, I'm 31 years old andI've got cancer and I don't know
what that means.
Right, I was stage two, soearly enough, and I caught it
and, good lesson there was hey,my body was telling me something
was off.
And it took me a four months.
I went in and finally said, hey, it doesn't feel right, let's
check it out.
But it's not the lesson that Ineeded to slow down.
(17:20):
It was more of the, this feelingof like anger, like why me, you
know, and anger that I don'thave the ability not to work.
I'm the only income earner inthe family.
You know, I've got debts andresponsibility and I have a.
I have an integrity in thesense that I always pay my debts
.
You know, I don't short peoplemoney.
I pay my bills.
(17:41):
I.
That's something I was raisedlike.
You got to pay your bills.
You know, if I don't shortpeople money, I pay my bills I.
That's something I was raisedlike.
You got to pay your bills.
You know, if you don't pay yourbills, you're a piece of you
know what.
So, coming from that it was.
It wasn't necessarily sadness.
It's just like I can't taketime off and I was angry about
that, because I'm angry in thesense that I couldn't care for
myself, I think I I mean Iessentially took about a week
(18:03):
off from work because I had to.
I had surgery, I was in physicalpain.
I couldn't do my ops.
I had some great support by myoral surgeon and the doctors
around me to at least take oversome of the emergent care.
I couldn't do but going throughthe chemotherapy which I did
for about two months.
I did two rounds, which wasrecommended by the oncology team
(18:24):
.
I worked through the chemorounds.
I would do my chemo on Thursdayand then I would have actually
no, I did my chemo on Fridaybecause I was still five days a
week then and then I'd have theweekend to kind of recover here
a little bit, which sounded likefalse omen because they
injected you with some steroidsduring your chemotherapy.
So on your infusion days youfeel pretty good.
The morning after you feel likeyou just got back from a
(18:47):
terrible rave and got drugged,and those are rough weekends and
I remember vivid times,especially during the early part
of the weeks after the chemorounds and going into work and I
was vomiting between patients.
I kind of would have to excusemyself when I got to a certain
degree, but I worked betweenthem.
I didn't tell people about it.
The team was very supportive atthe time, um, but I but I
brought back on essentially afull schedule and work through
(19:08):
it.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Wow, wow, that's incredible.
I mean, that's sad that youcouldn't.
You felt like there was noother way.
You were like, well, nobodyelse can pay the bills, I have
to work, and so you couldn'ttake that time to truly heal.
You know that your body neededthe rest and I think a lot of
men feel that pressure.
I know Scott felt that when hewas one month, you know, where
(19:30):
he couldn't work because of hisback, and that was really scary
for him.
You know he did have anassociate at that time, but
still it is very scary and Iknow a lot of men you know go
through that as well and thenthey think they're going to lose
everything you know.
And so tell me after I know youhad dealt, shared your story
(19:53):
with suicide ideation Did thatcome afterwards, after your
diagnosis, or what's thetimeline?
Speaker 3 (19:56):
No, that was.
You know, that ended up comingfrom my personal experience.
So later on during my careeryou know, I was married in 2010
and about 2017, I was startingto really have some struggles in
my personal marriage.
You know, this is a deeperconversation I think that we'll
(20:16):
have time for, but there wassome major struggles and feeling
lack of support in many waysand, at a core issue was a real
lack of respect, you know, and Ithink that was probably the
nail in the coffin in terms ofwhy I exited my marriage, you
know, and that happened in 2020.
It was the same time when COVIDhad kind of struck and hit and
(20:38):
things had been really bad.
The year prior, we had thebirth of our third child, my son
, in 2018, which was a wonderfulblessing, but there was
definitely some recourseafterwards here, a lot of
disconnection as a couple and,going through that time, there
was a lot of loneliness that wasstarting to be experienced by
(20:59):
myself and I think when you'rein a box in life, you don't
necessarily see where you're at,and it actually took some
friends on the outside with you,like social posts and whatnot,
and would make comments and sayyou know, marvin, you ever
notice that you're always withyour kids or you're always alone
.
You know there's reasons behindthem.
I'm not here to to talknegative on my ex-spouse or
(21:21):
anything of that nature, butthat was something that I had
started to realize.
Yeah, I feel pretty alone.
I mean, this is a reason why ina lot of marriages and in
whatever reasons was, there's acertain level of loneliness or
detachment or lack of unity andconnection together and there's
definitely a disconnection and Ididn't understand what was
happening necessarily whydefinitely a disconnection, and
(21:45):
I didn't understand what washappening necessarily why.
And this in 2019 was a timeframethat things really started to
take a twist and we were goingthrough a lot of the time.
We had a new child I was in theprocess of, I had bought
another practice and merged itin.
Business was going really wellnow and very busy Building a new
home, making a move, and wewere without residents between
the new build and the old homefor several months, bouncing
(22:06):
around between VRBOs, rentals.
We crouched cash essentially onfriends of ours home for almost
three, four months with a newboard.
So there was a lot of angeraround that and just hostility
and uncomfortability and thatreally spiraled down until the
end of 2019 and moving to ournew home, and we were pretty
(22:28):
disconnected and I didn't knowwhat was going on.
But I felt some things in myheart and I'd gotten to a place
where, just when you're in a andyou've been here, mel when
you're in a relationship andyou're disconnected from your
partner and you start asking isit, you know, what is it wrong
with me?
We start putting the blame onourselves.
I think a lot of people do.
You know, if you're truly anarcissistic person, you're
(22:51):
going to blame the other and say, well, this is this isn't me,
it's you Right.
So for me, there was a lot ofself-internal reflection like
how messed up am I, you know?
And you start to feel reallyalone.
And this goes back to you knowearlier in my life, my story,
when I felt alone in thepractice and the business and
not knowing what to do.
And that's where I was.
And you try to numb it, you tryto stuff it down.
(23:14):
Men do this, women do this,everybody does it, whatever way.
It looks like disconnect, checkout, and I think, with the
idealization of suicide,something that starts to become
attractive, at least to me was.
I don't want to feel this wayanymore.
How can I really truly turnthis off?
(23:36):
And that can be end of lifetaking of life, and for me it
got to a very end of life takingof life.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
And for me it got to a very, very low point where I
tempted it and then for thatpoint, you know, I just feel
it's so sad because you feellike that's the only way out to
not feel that pain, even thoughyou know you're three beautiful
children.
But that's why it's so hard tounderstand for people.
But you explain it.
You're kind of in this prison,you know, and you know your
(24:10):
thoughts are spiraling andyou're just seeing that there's
just an immense amount of painand loneliness and you feel you
don't want to feel that anymore.
Speaker 3 (24:19):
Yeah, for me, I was tired.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
For me.
I was tired.
I was tired physically, I wastired Did you did you?
Speaker 1 (24:32):
did you have friends like notice that at all?
Or were you you?
Did you discuss those suicidalthoughts with anybody else close
to you?
No, no see, this is where Ithink a lot of men definitely
hide behind that mask.
You know, like they, you don't.
They don't talk about theinternal pain and struggles and
the suicidal thoughts until it'stoo late.
(24:55):
You know, I I can definitelyrelate to that.
I mean, I know you hadmentioned, you had talked to my
husband, you know, I think amonth before, a month or two
before he passed, because youcould tell he was, you know,
struggling, losing his dad andwhatnot, and you were kind of
hoping to connect with him andshow him that there's so much
love around him.
(25:16):
You know, so much to live for.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
You know I think it's tough because there's not a
playbook for this right.
You know I think it's toughbecause there's not a playbook
for this right.
We don't go through basic healthin ninth grade and learn about
anatomy, physiology, health, andsay, oh yeah, by the way,
here's a, let's talk aboutsuicide.
A lot of times too, you're likethat's not in my world, that's
not for me, right.
And as guys and my best friendcame to me and was just, at
least at that point, was like,yeah, by the way, I was off
(25:40):
myself Friday, I wouldn't knowwhat to do with that.
Obviously I'd care, I'd beconcerned, but as far as a
recipe, an answer, a tool, Iwouldn't have known what to say.
Besides, you should talk tosomebody and probe, but I don't
have an answer to that questionand I think that's probably why
(26:04):
people don't bring it up.
That's why I certainly didbring it up, not to mention the
shame around it.
Like look at this perfect lifenot perfect life but boats, cars
, house, kids, all of it and youwant to do, you want to cash
that in.
I mean, there's a lot of shamethat goes around that.
At least I felt that shame.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
And have you been able to work through that shame
since then, or do you still holdon to that?
Speaker 3 (26:29):
Yeah, I still hold on to it a little bit.
It's a process, right.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
It's a process that I don't think you ever write up
Just like the thoughts and youknow I've talked off camera with
this Like there's always.
There's always that littlenuance and attraction and and
perseverance of it, just beneaththe surface sometimes.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
Yeah, how did you move past?
Actually going through with itwith suicide, like you said?
You didn't reach out for help,you didn't tell anybody.
So can you tell me what madeyou change your mind and you
chose to live?
Speaker 3 (27:05):
several, several things.
But, um, I did one old playthat I knew was.
I got to work.
I knew that, I knew that, but Igot to work differently.
I started to read, I started tolearn, I started to understand,
I saw counselors, I sawtherapists, I joined men's
(27:27):
groups, I started a men's coachand, above and above, I got the
word.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
So you seeked help for yourself.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Yeah, which I'm so proud.
I'm so proud that you did and Iknow you're still working on
yourself and I know you've beena big voice on social media,
sharing your struggles.
Still now, and having thatvoice, I know you're inspiring
other men to do the same andremoving that veil and that
shame.
(27:55):
You know that shame, that, yeah, you're successful.
You have all the things thatmany wish they can have, but
it's okay to still feel all thatdarkness, that pain.
You know, I think a lot oftimes, yeah, they have a hard
time saying that they'restruggling because they look at
others and say well, I have allthese things, I shouldn't be
(28:15):
struggling.
But I think more successful menare and they feel alone.
And now tell me some of thethings that you've incorporated
in a daily basis to just keepthose thoughts at bay, or for
your own mental health, your owngrowth at this point, A part of
it's gratitude.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
You know just reframing how I look at life,
you know, not looking at thelack, working through you know
some of the coaching I've haddone and understanding that you
know we're given everything weneed.
It's already like, it's alreadypre-programmed, but the work is
(28:55):
in accessing it and sharing it.
You know we talk about darknessand light side and shadow work.
You know, once you've lit yourlight, as you know Mel, there's
going to be illumination onothers and through my own
experience, through you knowdivorce or health scares or
whatnot.
(29:15):
I mean I can't tell how manypeople have reached out in
private.
Yes.
It happens all the time.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Yeah it's always like I, even driving here to podcast
.
You know it's I, it's it'sgod's work, I always say because
it's just sharing a story and Iknow it'll impact so many.
You know, especially men thatare kind of behind that veil and
not sharing that they'restruggling and maybe you will.
(29:42):
You know, I know you will nudgesomeone to maybe either start
seeking help themselves ortelling a friend or finding
community.
You know we live in an era nowit is a little bit more, you
know, accessible and talkedabout, especially for for men,
where they don't have to pretendto be so strong for their
family.
You know, and, and I'm so, I'mso proud that you've done that
(30:06):
for yourself and your family andand I, if you can explain a
little bit kind of now, I knowyou've got, you know, a dentist,
but are you thinking of helpingother men along the way?
Like what's on your heartlately?
I know you've been sharing alot about your journey.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
A hundred percent.
I love helping others.
You know, whether it's youngdocs, men, men's work, it's hard
to you know women same thing,but it's a little bit different
when it comes from men, men'scoaching.
I have a huge passion in healthand wellness now and you know
my partner, jamie, is awesome inbeing a supportive role in that
(30:47):
.
And you know you asked partabout the healing.
Well, part of that is having akick-ass partner, you know, and
I like the jackpot.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
Yeah, you did, yeah, you did.
Jamie is incredible andcongratulations.
I know your wedding is comingsoon in September, so yeah, she
is.
Your wedding is coming soon inSeptember, so yeah, she is.
And she for her.
Her passion has been to helpmen that are fatherless right,
that grew up fatherless and thatwound and that really touched
my heart because that's my sonright and that's going to be a
(31:17):
wound that he continually workson.
I can never be that masculineenergy for him.
You know that figure.
But I know you know he'll haveplenty of mentors along the way.
You know friends, family thatwill be that part of him.
But it'll be important to still, yeah, work and guide him
(31:39):
through that.
So I love that Jamie is workingalongside with a lot of men
that are fatherless Well, womenweren't designed through that.
So I love that Jamie is workingalongside with a lot of men
that are fatherless.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
Well, women weren't designed for that and I think
there's a huge lacking inhealthy masculinity now in our
society, especially in thiscountry.
And I see it more so now thatI've gotten to the work and
started to see it and understandit and what those impacts could
or couldn't be.
But I do hold the menaccountable because at the end
of the day, it comes down to achoice.
It is your choice what you'regoing to do, nobody else's, and
(32:12):
it has to be the responsibilityof the individual to make that
decision, that choice and thatchange.
I chose that for myself, comingfrom a place of passion and
trauma and other ways, butknowing that I can't be victim
to that circumstance.
And I understand that nowbecause it's all about a mindset
change.
But you have to do the work.
That's the big exception.
(32:34):
Your job as a mother is not tobe the father.
We need healthy men, we needmen to heal, we need men to step
up as leaders and to do thatwork and understand that there's
a difference in the polaritybetween us and the women, and
strong male leadership issomething that I think is very
much needed in the family andthere's an effect when it's not.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
Yeah, absolutely Absolutely.
I couldn't agree more.
And I think for men, once theykind of share that veil and
speak their truth without shame,you know, then there's some
much freedom and happiness thatcan happen.
You know, look at you whereyou're at now, you know, and
about to get remarried and yourpractice is successful and
(33:17):
you're going to be.
You know, working with men andsharing your stories already
impacting so many, and I know wewill continue to do so.
I know I kind of mentioned thatbefore but if you know, men
will be listening right now, menthat might be going through a
divorce.
You know suicidal thoughts andjust struggling with a lot of
(33:39):
the identity.
Right, if they're losing theiridentity, their practice is not
doing well or they're changingprofessions I think you kind of
mentioned it a little bit.
But what would be a messagethat you're speaking to them
right now?
What would be that hope thatinspired them to work on
themselves?
Speaker 3 (33:59):
You know, at the core , the main message is that on
the other side of that door is aworld of possibilities.
The problem is that we can'tsee past the door unless we open
it.
We walk through it, we changethe frame on how we see our
lives, we do the work and we getrid of self-limiting beliefs.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
Yes, amen.
Speaker 3 (34:26):
Because it comes down to the fact that we are in
control of our own lives.
Pick it through divineintervention, environment
doesn't matter.
But you have a life, you have asoul and you have a choice.
So it comes down to youdeciding what do you want for
(34:46):
your life, what do you want foryou, and stepping into that
power and utilizing resources inorder to embrace it, Whether
that's the church, yourfriendships, your own children,
your family, your groups.
But getting in that communityand letting go and fear.
But that's the gift.
And that was and again, I'mspeaking from my past and my
(35:10):
decisions, because once Idecided to make that change,
that's when the abundancystarted to come in, like what's
possible?
And now I got a.
You know, I got a taste ofsomething different.
And now that almost became agood, healthy addiction, because
now it says, hey, what isactually possible?
(35:33):
And that will excite you morethan anything else when you
start to realize like there is aanother outcome, there is a
potential outcome I had not seenbefore.
There are things that I nowtell myself, I never told myself
before and that leads to placesof just power.
And you asked a question earlierabout next phase of life.
(35:55):
Well, that's.
That's part of a purpose whereI feel called to do more than
just the clinical dentistry andI feel powerfully positioned to
do so.
You know, there's always asense of fear, because fear, at
the end, is the the driver ofnot doing something or doing
something.
And there is still fear, Like,can I do this?
(36:16):
Is this what I'm supposed to do?
If I step away from somethingthat is very productive I'm good
at and go into another field,what does that mean?
You know?
And in the same measure I telleverybody it's like fuck fear.
You got one life to live.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
Live it.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
Absolutely.
Yeah, I feel like a lot ofdentists if they decide they
feel kind of stuck, If theydon't want to do that anymore.
That first step of steppingaway something that's so secure
you know they have it, but thatsomething else is calling them
taking that first step.
But what I've seen for myself,other people when you're
following that purpose, you knowthat abundance will come, you
(36:56):
know, and you'll be so ignitedwith that fire because it's your
purpose and there's so much joywhen that comes, you know when
you're in alignment, and so Ilove that.
you shared that, and I'm excitedfor you.
Speaker 3 (37:10):
Here's the dirty little secret about it.
You might actually have funagain.
Yes, I know, or you might nothave had fun for a while.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
I yes.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
And that's like this is fun.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
Actually that was my.
I had a new year's resolution,it was what, 2024, and I was
like, okay, it had been twoyears since my husband passed.
I'm like, okay, I'm gonna allowmyself to have fun again, you
know, because there was kind ofa bit of that guilt and we kind
of forget as adults to have funand our kids are great reminders
to just come and play.
You know how often our kids saycome play with me and to allow
(37:50):
to be creative and playful, likeyou know.
Now I'm like I love dancing,like go do that, you know, and
enjoy, you know, the nature andoutdoors.
And so, yeah, go have fun again.
I like that.
Speaker 3 (38:02):
Life.
You know, we have fiduciaryresponsibilities and, as the
male archetype and leader,there's a lot of
responsibilities that we carry.
It's a lot centered around theproduction and the provision and
the money and whatnot, but somehas to be centered around the
aspect of joy, right, and I'm ina season now where understand
that, like I'm, I'm looking torecreate more joy and more peace
(38:25):
in my life, because it was waytoo chaotic.
Yeah, and young men, youngentrepreneurs, even young women,
it doesn't matter like there'sa lot that is caught up in that
grind, that we're not slowingdown and realizing that we're
missing out on life.
We're missing out.
Boy children aren't easy, godknows.
I got teenage girls and I wantto strangle them half the time.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
I love them I've got an 11 year old.
Speaker 3 (38:48):
That's pretty much going into 16, so I know I know
how you feel yeah, that that's atough one, you know there's
there's no playbook on it no butI know, as their dad, I'm in
their life and I'm going toraise them right and I'm going
to be a huge instrument in therole that they play in terms how
they they grow up, who theymarry, how they show up as a
spouse and a partner.
Speaker 1 (39:10):
Yeah, you're guiding a legacy.
You know they're going to lookup to you and see what you've
done and the work that you'vedone for yourself, and they're
going to want to meet a spousethat have done the same.
You know, done some work andemotional intelligence, and so
that's so important that you'releaving that legacy for for your
kids and and it's hard to findthat balance though right, but
(39:31):
we all need that harmony, thatbalance.
You know I see it now.
You know being a single momfighting that balance, even
though I, you know my drive formy, my career and but still be
so present and be on top of allthe bills and all the things,
that gets overwhelming, but Istill make time for fun and for
(39:54):
self care, you know.
Speaker 3 (39:56):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
Absolutely.
That's why sometimes theweekends I'm like oh, I check
out.
You know, I take my baths, mysauna, my red light oh gosh, Red
light, I did red light before Icome here.
I do that on a regular basis.
I sauna almost every night.
I put the kids to bed and Isauna.
So yeah, just adding thoselittle I.
(40:17):
You know, this morning I did mymeditation with my son, and my
daughter sleeps in till 10.
So she, she was enough to dothat.
But yeah, all those littlethings really help because, like
you said, fear will alwayscreep in shame, guilt, and to
keep those at bay we have tocontinuously do the work.
Speaker 3 (40:38):
You know that's.
You hit it on the head therebecause that, like I said, that
dark is always within us.
It's a dichotomy in eachindividual.
You know it's.
Who do you choose to feed?
Because part of what youmentioned was was work, and it
is work.
But here's the change Like thework is good, it's not supposed
(40:59):
to always be easy and I trulyfeel, if you accept that, if you
accept that role, if you acceptthese roles in our lives and
the work that comes along withit, as strenuous it is, it is a
gift and stop looking at it as acurse or a burden.
A lot of the work is a gift, andit's a good thing.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
Yeah, Say thank you, Right, Thank you.
I actually one thing too.
I was told okay, say thank youto all you.
Speaker 3 (41:26):
I actually one thing too I was told okay, say thank
you to all these bills.
Thank you, thank you, I'm gonnapay these bills and thank you,
I forgot that one.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
My credit card expired oh, you know, really
trying well, how can people findyou?
Because, uh, I always love yourposts as you share your heart
and I know you touch a lot ofpeople, and so how they can find
you.
Speaker 3 (41:47):
You know I'm on socials.
You'll see me on FacebookInstagram business page of Best
Dentist Tacoma and my personaland my main platform at Dr
Arvind J Petrie.
You'll see me on Instagram aswell, too, and come connect.
You know, Dr Arvin J Petrie,You'll see me on Instagram as
well, too, and come connect.
You know, send me a DM, send mea message.
(42:08):
I'd love to share more.
I'd love to hear your story.
I think one of the greatestgifts in life is the exchange of
information and ourcommunication and who we meet
along the way.
You know, in the late AnthonyBourdain, I think, hit this on
the nail in his life and hisexpeditions that he was doing
and, if you get a chance to readsome of his stuff and see his
biography, Troubled Soul, but hegot it.
He really understood the humanconnection aspect and that is
(42:32):
something I love and meetingpeople where they're at.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
Yeah, me too.
Me too, I love getting to knowpeople, their stories and, yeah,
no more surface talk.
I want to dig into their, theirstory and their struggles and
see where they're at Well.
Thank you so much for takingthe time to be on and share your
story and again, thank you foryour friendship and for being
(42:57):
there for me and my family, youknow, and.
I know you were there for.
Scott as well, and he loved you.
Speaker 3 (43:06):
I loved him too.
He taught me some great thingsabout him that I did not know,
and I was.
I always loved Scott for that,because no matter where he was
at, if you needed a hand or somehelp, that man would give it.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
Yeah, he was the most generous man.
Absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (43:22):
Well, thank you for having me on.
Speaker 1 (43:24):
What did you say?
Thank?
You for having me on.
Oh, yes, You're welcome you.
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