October 20, 2023 • 28 mins
This episode features Dr. Burcin Ikiz, a neuroscientist and writer from Stanford and Columbia universities' invaluable insights on the in depth neuroscience of learning and how it relates to mental health.
Tune in to learn more about learning your way to better mental health, neuroplasticity, and easy applications to your daily life!
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(00:03):
A podcast dedicated to helpingteams and.
And Their parents foster goodMental health
Aanya (00:08):
today's episode is about the connections between
neuroscience, learning, andmental health.
So first off, you may bethinking, why are we even
talking about learning on apodcast dedicated to mental
health?
Well, that's because the two aredeeply correlated.
And when thinking about actionsthat can be taken towards better
mental health, you think aboutneuroscience as well.
(00:29):
Today we're here with Dr.
Akiz, an incredibly inspiringneuroscientist with degrees from
Columbia and StanfordUniversities, as well as so many
incredible articles onpsychology today, and even her
own up and coming company,EcoNeuro
Dr. Burcin Ikiz (00:41):
Hello, everyone.
it's wonderful to be here andtalking with Anya and, all of
you.
I'm a neuroscientist bytraining, like Anya said, so we
often think so much about thebrain alone, but it's actually
so related to everything thatthe brain does, how we feel and
how the rest of our body feels.
So I'm really excited to talkabout that topic
Aanya (01:00):
today with all of you.
Yeah, me too.
Thank you so much for joiningus, Dr.
Keys.
Okay, so, first of all, one ofmy first questions what does the
neuroscience of learning have todo with mental health just so,
you know, the whole audience canunderstand why we're even
talking about this?
Dr. Burcin Ikiz (01:15):
Yes, absolutely.
in fact, the connection betweenthe neuroscience of learning and
mental health seem, a little bitsubtle, but it's actually quite
profound, because our mentalwellness and health in general
is closely correlated with howwe feel, and how we feel is
actually a result of our learnedbehavior and conditioned
(01:36):
responses to our external andinternal environment, the
stimuli that comes to us fromthe outside or inside.
And so let's say, let me giveyou an example.
Let's say you're about to take atest.
You're about to enter aclassroom where there's a test
coming.
How do you feel?
Usually it's, you feel a littlenervous, a little anxious,
perhaps you think about what ifI fail, What if I don't do as
(02:00):
well?
And these correlations of,Stress and, and nervousness and
so on are, are all learnedbehavior that we were taught in
our society, in our educationsystem that tests are something
that assess how, not how well wedo, but who we are, how good we
are, how hard working we are.
And so it becomes a verystressful stimuli for us and our
(02:22):
brain learns that.
So every time it's kind of acondition response, every time
you're about to take an exam,your heart starts beating fast
and your breathing getsshallower.
However, our brains are theseincredibly dynamic and plastic
organs, so they can rewirethemselves, they can relearn.
So these associations withnegative thoughts we have, let's
(02:42):
say around a test coming up, wecan reteach ourselves to make it
not as stressful, but actually apositive, emotion.
So that's I'll give you anexample.
I came up from, I grew up inTurkey and the education system
we had there was very testoriented and memorization
oriented, and there was a lot ofemphasis on what grades you got,
(03:04):
how well you did on a test.
And that, similar to, what I wasmentioning before, that brought
up a, learning experience for methat tests are stressful.
and now I have a, seven year oldson, he is, a second grader.
And they're learning how tospell things.
So every week, they are givingspelling tests on Fridays.
So they're given 20 words tolearn how to spell on Monday.
(03:28):
And Monday through Thursday theydo, as homework, different
practices, different ways tostudy and learn.
Those words and on Friday theygo to school and they get tested
on how well they can spell thosewords And I've been trying to be
really break the cycle of whattest meant to me growing up and
in talking about these Tests II've been trying to really
(03:50):
emphasize it as a positive thingof it's a Opportunity it's an
exciting event to share how hardyou've been working And how much
you've been working and to beopportune to be able to show,
the hard work you have put andhow much you know of the
subject.
And if you get to miss a couplewords and don't know how to
(04:11):
spell, that is okay.
That's also a learningopportunity.
And, you know, this is subjectto change.
Things will, of course, change.
But so far, my son, since thebeginning of the school year,
has been coming home everyFriday, excited to share the
results of his tests, even if,he had missed a couple and he
just showed shares as a excitingand invigorating experience to
talk about.
(04:31):
And I think we can really learnfrom that and see whatever we,
whenever we have, negativeemotions, negative feelings to
really take a step back and seewhere these.
Emotions are coming from whatare they really linked to and
being aware of those and thentry to change that negative
association into positive onesand by repeating those positive
(04:54):
thinking and by rewiring andusing that rewiring plasticity
mechanism of our brains toactually have better
associations with differentstimulus and making it a better
mood for and a stronger mentalhealth for us in general.
Aanya (05:12):
Yeah, that's so amazing.
what you're doing with your sonand it's so incredible to see
that those things can actuallychange how like starting from
even the young age of seven, howwe start to process tests, how
we start to process the worldaround us.
And, you know, I think likeMaintaining good mental health
is often linked to how well youcan learn actionable things to
(05:34):
improve your thought processesas well, like, for example,
somebody throughout their wholelife could have, kind of
associated tests with somethingnegative, but if they're able to
actually learn that You know,that's not the best way to go
about test taking.
And if they were able to learncoping mechanisms and break that
cognitive cycle, that can alsoactually improve their mental
(05:54):
health.
And it, of course, starts from aplace of like, what you're doing
is so amazing, where you'rereally integrating, like,
positive reinforcement with testtaking.
But for so many people thatdon't have that, They can also,
they have the power to change,and like you said, we have the
power of neuroplasticity in ourbrains, where we can change
(06:16):
those thought paths.
Dr. Burcin Ikiz (06:18):
Absolutely.
Yeah, our brains are a very,very special organ and, really
that life learning it's alifelong thing to be able to
rewire and reshape our thoughts,that ability for our brains are
lifelong.
So no matter where you are inyour mental wellness journey,
how deep those negativeassociations may be, how, how
linked they are to deep intoyour childhood and so on, you
(06:39):
can always by, Right by strongawareness and and and thinking
and practice you can reallychange those associations
Aanya (06:48):
Yeah, that's that's like so powerful to just give people
hope So what actually happens inyour brain wouldn't with like
all this neuroplasticity on aneuroscientific Like very nitty
gritty level when you learnthings and when you you know,
change those thought patterns
Dr. Burcin Ikiz (07:05):
Yeah.
so it's very exciting becauseI'm a neuroscientist and I'm,
I'm nerdy and I find this veryexciting, but basically whenever
you're learning something newlet's say it's a new musical
instrument or the quadraticformula, you, your neurons, the
nerve cells in your brain, it'sMake a connection.
This is actually aelectrochemical signaling called
a synapse that goes from oneneuron to another, and that's
(07:29):
when a snaps or a connectionhappens between the neurons.
And so the first time, let'ssay, and then the next time you
pick up that instrument again,or you're, recalling quad.
formula or you're rereading itin your math notebook textbook,
that connection gets firedagain.
So we have a term inneuroscience called cells that
fire together, wire together.
(07:50):
And so the more you practiceyour instrument or the more you.
Study the quadratic formula,that, fire, fire mechanism, that
connection, it's not theconnection between the neurons
get stronger and stronger, andthen they start firing faster.
So the, and they get wiredtogether in your brain.
So every time you, you thenstart using that recalling that
(08:12):
or using it for anything,reaching to that knowledge
becomes so much faster.
And that's exactly how learninghappens.
And there are different parts ofyour brain that can be involved
in this learning process.
you have your hippocampusinvolved, which is also
associated with the short termmemory because you need that
memory patterns to be able toreinforce your learning.
(08:33):
you have your prefrontal cocortex, which is associated with
executive functions and decisionmaking, is also involved with
the learning.
Even your amygdala, the partthat's More linked to your
emotions are become a part ofyour learning process as well.
And during learningneurotransmitters, these
chemical signals like dopamineplay a crucial role in on
(08:56):
signaling reward and reinforcingbehavior and helping to form
memory and learning.
So the brain's general abilityto reshape these connections are
called the synaptic plasticityor neuroplasticity.
Aanya (09:08):
Wow, that's so amazing that our brain has all these
different puzzle pieces thatkind of fit together to make it
so like Incredible so adaptableyeah, I really want to go back
to what you said about likecells that fire together wire
together And just explain thatto everyone so when brains form
new neural connections They getstronger as you use them like dr
(09:30):
He said and Another analogy forthis could be like how a natural
trail would get more solid asit's walked on more because then
those neurons are firing againin those same patterns, and it
just becomes more familiar foryour mind to go on that same
path.
And that's why practice is soimportant in training your mind
to go on that like correct pathin a sense.
(09:50):
An example would be, of learningin school to get better grades
would be like, you practice mathso that you can recognize
patterns in the problems andsolve them.
And the more that you practicethat math and recognize those
patterns, the easier it is foryou to recognize them again.
Or, you know, an example of inmental health, if you recognize
negative thought patterns, Youcan replace them with learning
(10:12):
and practice positive thoughtpatterns.
And the more you practice thosethought patterns, the easier it
gets to not only recognize themwhen they're not there, but also
to just help your brain easilysmooth into that path again.
Or, you know, in an even morespecific example, if you get a
lot of anxiety when it comes totests at school, your thought
process might look like Firstyou start off wondering what
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would happen if you don't dowell on the test and your mind
initially begins toautomatically think It means
that you're not intelligent yourfriends and family will be
disappointed in you All yourhard work studying will have
gone to waste You won't be ableto achieve your future goals in
life or like any other thoughtsthat you guys might have That
lead to really zero benefit foryour performance on the test and
(10:57):
they only serve to stress youout and lower your scores and
your mental energy But if youtake a step back, none of those
things are really true.
They're just thought fallaciesand like patterns that your
brain has developed.
And just like a worn dirt path,it's just really solidified
going and firing those neuronswired together.
(11:18):
And in reality, your test isjust not the make or break of
your career, your socialreputation, your time usage, or
any of those other things.
In reality, your mindset is themake or break of all of those
things.
And the moment you realize that,you give yourself the power to
take a deep breath when thoseirrational thoughts that we all
have inevitably enter your mind.
(11:39):
And maybe your anxiety won't goaway just because you, you know,
willed it to.
But you are actively forming anew.
stress free neural pathway andyour cells that fire together
wire together like doctor hesaid and and you're just
actively forming these newpathways for how your mind and
your body handles stressful testtaking or like in this
(12:02):
particular example that we justdiscussed this means you get
better test scores because youcan focus and understand the
importance of your actions overtime rather than you know that
make or break thought fallacythat tied to your single test.
And in the broader sense of thisconcept of neuroplasticity, you
have the ability to change theway you think, feel, and act.
Dr. Burcin Ikiz (12:24):
Absolutely, you're spot on.
And, and so reframing thosenegative thoughts, focusing on
the positive aspects, and aswell as finding these reward
systems that by breaking anegative thought, it can really
reinforce this new and positiveneural pathway.
Aanya (12:40):
Yeah, definitely.
So, like, how would we use thisconcept of like neuroplasticity
and how our brains work toactually learn, information
better and, you know, memorizebetter
Dr. Burcin Ikiz (12:50):
yeah, absolutely.
So one of the ways is justreally repeatedly activating
your neuronal connections byafter recall.
This could be since the more yourecall those connections, the
stronger they get by doing,let's say you're getting, you're
learning the periodic periodictable to do flashcards or
practice tests or very differentmulti modal ways of learning.
(13:12):
So testing one time perhapssaying out loud all the elements
in the periodic table.
And one time, perhaps doing thea flashcard kind of test,
finding different multiplesenses and learning modes that
to make your neuralrepresentation stronger and
enhancing your learning andrecall could be one way.
Another way.
is actually scientists haveshown that giving your brain the
(13:34):
time to process that informationand, and to build that memory,
you need to space out theactivation of those neurons.
So instead of cramming threehours of learning of the
periodic table to one day andexpecting that that will give
you a solid learning experiencedividing it up to let's say half
an hour periods over a week.
(13:54):
time will make that learningmuch more efficient and
effective because it will giveyou a time, time for your brain
to form those connections andthe sleep and rest to really
recover that memory buildingprocess.
Another way is Make thatlearning experience personal.
We all learn in different ways.
Some people learn betterauditory through auditory ways.
(14:16):
Some people are more visuallearners.
Some people need need to movetheir bodies when they're
learning or they need to moreactive recall processes.
So really knowing what's yourbest way to learn and, and
targeting that way of learningfor your learning is really
important.
And finally knowing that chronicstress.
And several other things,internal things can really
(14:36):
impair the formation of your newneurons and hinder your
learning.
So making sure that on the daythat you want to learn that
you're not hungry, that you'renot that your body feels rested
that you you feel not sostressed out will really help
your learning
Aanya (14:53):
journey.
Yeah, those are all such greatpoints.
I wanted to go back to a wordyou said was
neurorepresentation, and I'mjust wondering, like, what
exactly does that mean?
Dr. Burcin Ikiz (15:04):
Yeah, sure.
Neurorepresentation is the wayyou are able to call, let's say
something you're learning, anelement in, in the periodic
table, how it gets representedin your brain, which connections
it makes, what kind ofinformation or other parts of
your brain does it link to?
That's neuro representation, andit's not going to be the same
(15:27):
as, so your way of Viewing thatcarbon would be different than
the way I might relate to thecarbon.
It might be for you.
It might be a visualrepresentation.
For me, it might be actually howit's used in the industry and so
on.
So we all make differentconnections to it and the
representation in our brainswill be different because the
connections we make are notgoing to be identical.
Aanya (15:49):
Wow, that's really interesting.
So like when you get a piece ofinformation every single person
will like connect it to otherpieces of information and it's
like is that how you actuallylike retain information by like
a connection to other things,you know
Dr. Burcin Ikiz (16:04):
Absolutely.
Our brains are very efficientengineers.
They don't like to, they, youknow, they work in, they
actually spend most of theenergy of our bodies are spent
in our brains.
They say that a chess playerduring a chess game can spend as
many calories as a professionalathlete playing any physical
sports.
(16:24):
So our body uses a lot ofenergy, it uses a lot of space
and to be able to economizedthose, that energy and that
space, it, it tries to findshortcuts all the time.
So when you're building amemory, building a knowledge,
it, it builds all these littleshortcuts.
It makes these links to anotherinformation, another connection
(16:45):
it had made in the past and soon.
So, so that everybody's Wherethat one knowledge, that carbon
element will be will be in yourbrain will be different for you,
it will be different for me, andit might be linked to all these
different previously madeconnections and knowledge.
Aanya (17:01):
Yeah.
Another thing was like, can you,so some people will like
visually learn things better orlike some people will be more
auditory learners.
Is it possible to actuallychange the way that you learn
best?
Like if you continuously likevisually learn over time, will
that make you a better visuallearner?
Or is that just how we likeinherently how our like genetics
(17:22):
and our brains are built?
Dr. Burcin Ikiz (17:25):
You can absolutely change them.
That's the learning ways.
A certain.
way to learn is just what yourbody naturally and from birth
feels closer to that will makeit get to the knowledge faster.
But like anything else with yourbrain, you can really train it
to gather information other waysas well
Aanya (17:44):
yeah.
That's just a question I'vealways had.
Like how much of You know, ourlearning methods and our memory
is actually genetic and how muchof it is based on like our
actions, you know, just thegeneral question of nature
versus nurture.
Dr. Burcin Ikiz (17:58):
Absolutely, yeah, and it's like every time
that question comes, it's both.
And that's why I think it'sreally important in our
education systems and most ofthe teachers I have met really
try to do that is Try to bringdifferent modes of learning and
you actually to be able toreally make that learning
process and knowledge strongerin your brain, you do need that
multi modal methods of learning.
(18:19):
It's it's good even though ifyou might be a visual learner,
it's good to have some auditoryinput put too because that just
expands the space your braintakes for that knowledge.
So it will be easier for it tocome back to that knowledge
afterwards through differentclues and links.
Aanya (18:35):
Yeah, I actually, like, I think I read a study somewhere
that was talking about how, inblind people, like, generally
for humans, the visual parts ofour brain is, like, the largest,
holds the most, like neurons,but in blind people, instead of
having that, since they can'tsee, other aspects of their
senses actually, Kind of takeover and grow in that space
instead because they're usingthose senses more
Dr. Burcin Ikiz (18:59):
Absolutely.
Yep.
Yep, and you know differentparts of the brain different
that are linked to differentsenses continue to expand
Especially the one the olfactoryone.
So the one that's linked tosmells They say when the moms
have their babies there thatpart of that brain goes through
the highest level of neuroregeneration, so the growth of
(19:19):
neurons and so on, because itlinks the baby's new smell and
make that connection happen withtheir infants and so on.
So yeah, our body constantlychanges and new, new neurons and
connections get added to thedifferent part of the senses and
you're, you can.
Modify and let's say, and somepeople you know, some, you gave
the example of the blind person,sometimes more with auditory
(19:42):
impairments and people who aregoing deaf, they can have, it's
a slow, it could be a slowprocess and slowly their brain
learns to wire the sensoryinformation through other
methods and, and let go of theauditory one.
Aanya (19:55):
Yeah, brains are just so fascinating but to go back to,
like, how we can use thatknowledge to learn better, like
you were talking about activerecall, so in, practice, rather
than trying to form vast amountsof, like, kind of weak, just,
like, neurons firing by, like,reading and rereading a
textbook, for example, you canactually strengthen your memory
(20:17):
retention of that information Bygoing over and actively using
the neural pathways that storethat information you need So the
more connections you make thelike the like doctor was saying
like the more space thatinformation takes up And this
could mean, you know studyingfor school or like a test by
answering questions By minddumping on topics by maybe like
(20:39):
pretending to teach a thirdparty the concept you're trying
to learn By flash cards by justanything That's practicing
pushing your thoughts along thepath that you want them to lead
by anything.
That's just like practicingmaking those connections that
you want to remember.
So when it comes to your mentalhealth, this means practicing
good thought habits thatactually make practicing those
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easier every single time.
It's like just this cycle of,you know, positive reinforcement
and it's like an exponentialgrowth kind of easiness.
And if it's encouraging at allto hear that.
That means that the first timeyou stop yourself from going
down a negative thought loop,that was probably the hardest
time that you're ever going todo that.
So if you just did that one timetoday, that means it's only
(21:25):
going to get easier and morerewarding from there on out.
Absolutely.
Dr. Burcin Ikiz (21:30):
That's how the brain works.
Aanya (21:32):
Yeah, so, like, taking this information into account,
how can parents help their kidsyou know, like, just learn
better and use that not only to,their advantages for, you know,
school and all those kinds ofthings, but also for their
mental health?
Yeah, absolutely.
I
Dr. Burcin Ikiz (21:48):
think one of the key things is to really
create a supportive and openenvironment to there's this
renowned psychologist.
Her name is Dr.
Lisa Dahmer, and she specializesin the emotional lives of
teenagers, and she says that inpsychology a mentally healthy
individual is not someone who'salways happy, who always feels
(22:09):
good, but it is someone who hasemotions that fit to the
situations, and that, who canthen manage those emotions
effectively with certain copingstrategies.
So so welcoming any kind ofemotions, not just the positive
ones, not just the good ones,trying not to fix the bad
emotions.
(22:30):
When somebody says I'm sad, nottrying to give them, Oh, why
don't we just go for an icecream run and you'll feel
better, but actually leaving itup to and having an open
conversation to try to really.
Understand where those emotionscoming from, try to help the
kids see where those thoughtpatterns come from, find where
those triggers that cause thosenegative emotions come from,
(22:51):
could really help them.
And then embracing a growthmindset, teaching the children
the value of effort andresilience and encouraging them
to continue enhancing theirlearning capabilities and mental
resilience.
And finally, modeling thosehealthy behaviors.
And themselves.
So sharing with their kids whenthey feel all kinds of emotions,
(23:12):
including frustration or, or,anxiety and saying, you know
what?
I have a presentation coming upthis morning at work and I'm
feeling very anxious about it.
I think I'm going to take a walkoutside for a little bit to
relax myself.
And when you share that kind ofinformation with the child,
you're giving the message thatit's okay to feel anxious
sometimes.
(23:32):
And there's a way you have,you're, you have the power,
you're empowered to do somethingabout it.
So for the parent, it could beto take a walk outside, maybe
for the kid, you can findtogether if that means a little
jiggle of a dance or or singingyour favorite song or doing a
mindful exercise, anything, butthey're just modeling that kind
(23:56):
of behavior of, that you'reempowered you can manage any
kind of emotion that come to youeffectively would be really
helpful.
Aanya (24:03):
Wow, yeah, I think if more parents thought like you,
the world would be so much of abetter place.
That's so amazing to hear that,you know, like there's ways to
empower kids to, face theiremotions without Going either or
in like saying that oh, youremotions are unwarranted.
(24:24):
You shouldn't be feeling likethis.
And also while saying that, youknow, you have the power to face
these emotions and continuebeing your best self.
And I really like your pointabout leading by example and all
this information thinking aboutneuroplasticity and how it
applies to your kids, thatinformation also applies to you
and your thought patterns, yourlearning.
(24:45):
So, you know, not only shouldyou be kind of making sure that
you're encouraging your kids,but also encourage yourself.
You know, try your best to notsay negative things about
yourself or exaggerate your ownshortcomings as well as theirs.
Because that's kind of wherethese thought patterns form.
You know, rather opt forsomething like Dr.
He's does with where you know,you're just kind of encouraging
(25:07):
them, empowering them.
And I think that's really justthe best way to go about helping
you and your whole entirefamily.
Absolutely.
Yep.
Yeah.
Is there anything else you wantto add doctor?
Dr. Burcin Ikiz (25:20):
Not really.
I would just say the maintakeaway is.
Is that believe in your brains,your brains are these incredibly
dynamic organs and you have theability, no matter where you are
in your mental wellness journey,you have the ability to reshape
your thoughts, your emotions.
And like we said before, youwere empowered to do something
(25:41):
about how you're feeling.
Aanya (25:43):
Yeah, and I think it's, like, very important to say
that, just because you feel bigemotions, like everyone does
like you were saying earlier,it's not about the level of,
emotion that you feel, but it'sabout how you handle that
emotion and how you handle thecircumstances that life will
always throw at you.
And overall, I just want toleave you guys all with the idea
(26:04):
that your thoughts and yourbrain They all have power and
over time you can use like theblessing of neuroplasticity that
we all have in our Incrediblypowerful minds to form healthy
useful neural connections inyour mind yeah, like good luck
with all your future learningand all your future mental
wellness So we actually have anannouncement to make that we're
(26:25):
going to be hosting a parentteen workshop Of sorts with like
a Q& A session as well as achance to get personal help So
if that's something you wouldany of you would be interested
in please stay tuned on oursocial medias for more
information That's going to becoming soon.
Like on our Instagram, ourFacebook, anything like that.
And also I want to give Dr.
Keyes an opportunity to tell usall about her like blooming
(26:48):
company, all her writing andurge you guys to check it out
because she's such an amazingspeaker, a writer a
neuroscientist, and just such aninspiration.
Dr. Burcin Ikiz (26:58):
Thank you Anya.
It's been such a pleasure totalk with you and thank you all
who is listening.
Yeah my, echoneuro theenterprise I have built, it's
actually more of a socialenterprise with the mission of
exploring the connection ofneuroscience with environment.
So I'm really interested intrying to understand how our
(27:18):
environment and our lifestylesaffect and so I'm really
interested to see how, forexample, climate change or our
diets can affect our brainhealth.
And the three goals of EkoNeuroare, one, to increase our
knowledge and understandingaround what affects the brain
health.
Number two, spread that,awareness and that knowledge
(27:39):
into public.
And third is.
to leverage that knowledge intocoming up with solutions,
working with public healthorganizations and so on to
really bring about solutions toimprove neurological and mental
health.
So if you're curious, pleasecheck it out.
It's www.
econera.
org.
We have also all the socialmedia accounts and you can
(28:00):
always reach me out if you haveany questions or if you're
interested to learn more about
Aanya (28:04):
it.
Yeah, if you're interested, Dr.
Keys is such an amazing and liketruly such a kind person to work
with and her company is sointeresting yeah, thank you guys
for listening to this episode,and thank you so much, doctor,
for being here with us today andteaching us all about
neuroscience and also sharingyour company with us, which is
like such an incredible mission,and we hope you all enjoyed and
(28:27):
learned something aboutlearning.
Yeah.
So stay tuned for more episodesand more information on all of
our social medias about our.
Upcoming workshop and We'll seeyou guys next time
A podcast dedicated to helpingteams and.
And Their parents foster goodMental health
Aanya (00:08):
today's episode is about the connections between
neuroscience, learning, andmental health.
So first off, you may bethinking, why are we even
talking about learning on apodcast dedicated to mental
health?
Well, that's because the two aredeeply correlated.
And when thinking about actionsthat can be taken towards better
mental health, you think aboutneuroscience as well.
(00:29):
Today we're here with Dr.
Akiz, an incredibly inspiringneuroscientist with degrees from
Columbia and StanfordUniversities, as well as so many
incredible articles onpsychology today, and even her
own up and coming company,EcoNeuro
Dr. Burcin Ikiz (00:41):
Hello, everyone.
it's wonderful to be here andtalking with Anya and, all of
you.
I'm a neuroscientist bytraining, like Anya said, so we
often think so much about thebrain alone, but it's actually
so related to everything thatthe brain does, how we feel and
how the rest of our body feels.
So I'm really excited to talkabout that topic
Aanya (01:00):
today with all of you.
Yeah, me too.
Thank you so much for joiningus, Dr.
Keys.
Okay, so, first of all, one ofmy first questions what does the
neuroscience of learning have todo with mental health just so,
you know, the whole audience canunderstand why we're even
talking about this?
Dr. Burcin Ikiz (01:15):
Yes, absolutely.
in fact, the connection betweenthe neuroscience of learning and
mental health seem, a little bitsubtle, but it's actually quite
profound, because our mentalwellness and health in general
is closely correlated with howwe feel, and how we feel is
actually a result of our learnedbehavior and conditioned
(01:36):
responses to our external andinternal environment, the
stimuli that comes to us fromthe outside or inside.
And so let's say, let me giveyou an example.
Let's say you're about to take atest.
You're about to enter aclassroom where there's a test
coming.
How do you feel?
Usually it's, you feel a littlenervous, a little anxious,
perhaps you think about what ifI fail, What if I don't do as
(02:00):
well?
And these correlations of,Stress and, and nervousness and
so on are, are all learnedbehavior that we were taught in
our society, in our educationsystem that tests are something
that assess how, not how well wedo, but who we are, how good we
are, how hard working we are.
And so it becomes a verystressful stimuli for us and our
(02:22):
brain learns that.
So every time it's kind of acondition response, every time
you're about to take an exam,your heart starts beating fast
and your breathing getsshallower.
However, our brains are theseincredibly dynamic and plastic
organs, so they can rewirethemselves, they can relearn.
So these associations withnegative thoughts we have, let's
(02:42):
say around a test coming up, wecan reteach ourselves to make it
not as stressful, but actually apositive, emotion.
So that's I'll give you anexample.
I came up from, I grew up inTurkey and the education system
we had there was very testoriented and memorization
oriented, and there was a lot ofemphasis on what grades you got,
(03:04):
how well you did on a test.
And that, similar to, what I wasmentioning before, that brought
up a, learning experience for methat tests are stressful.
and now I have a, seven year oldson, he is, a second grader.
And they're learning how tospell things.
So every week, they are givingspelling tests on Fridays.
So they're given 20 words tolearn how to spell on Monday.
(03:28):
And Monday through Thursday theydo, as homework, different
practices, different ways tostudy and learn.
Those words and on Friday theygo to school and they get tested
on how well they can spell thosewords And I've been trying to be
really break the cycle of whattest meant to me growing up and
in talking about these Tests II've been trying to really
(03:50):
emphasize it as a positive thingof it's a Opportunity it's an
exciting event to share how hardyou've been working And how much
you've been working and to beopportune to be able to show,
the hard work you have put andhow much you know of the
subject.
And if you get to miss a couplewords and don't know how to
(04:11):
spell, that is okay.
That's also a learningopportunity.
And, you know, this is subjectto change.
Things will, of course, change.
But so far, my son, since thebeginning of the school year,
has been coming home everyFriday, excited to share the
results of his tests, even if,he had missed a couple and he
just showed shares as a excitingand invigorating experience to
talk about.
(04:31):
And I think we can really learnfrom that and see whatever we,
whenever we have, negativeemotions, negative feelings to
really take a step back and seewhere these.
Emotions are coming from whatare they really linked to and
being aware of those and thentry to change that negative
association into positive onesand by repeating those positive
(04:54):
thinking and by rewiring andusing that rewiring plasticity
mechanism of our brains toactually have better
associations with differentstimulus and making it a better
mood for and a stronger mentalhealth for us in general.
Aanya (05:12):
Yeah, that's so amazing.
what you're doing with your sonand it's so incredible to see
that those things can actuallychange how like starting from
even the young age of seven, howwe start to process tests, how
we start to process the worldaround us.
And, you know, I think likeMaintaining good mental health
is often linked to how well youcan learn actionable things to
(05:34):
improve your thought processesas well, like, for example,
somebody throughout their wholelife could have, kind of
associated tests with somethingnegative, but if they're able to
actually learn that You know,that's not the best way to go
about test taking.
And if they were able to learncoping mechanisms and break that
cognitive cycle, that can alsoactually improve their mental
(05:54):
health.
And it, of course, starts from aplace of like, what you're doing
is so amazing, where you'rereally integrating, like,
positive reinforcement with testtaking.
But for so many people thatdon't have that, They can also,
they have the power to change,and like you said, we have the
power of neuroplasticity in ourbrains, where we can change
(06:16):
those thought paths.
Dr. Burcin Ikiz (06:18):
Absolutely.
Yeah, our brains are a very,very special organ and, really
that life learning it's alifelong thing to be able to
rewire and reshape our thoughts,that ability for our brains are
lifelong.
So no matter where you are inyour mental wellness journey,
how deep those negativeassociations may be, how, how
linked they are to deep intoyour childhood and so on, you
(06:39):
can always by, Right by strongawareness and and and thinking
and practice you can reallychange those associations
Aanya (06:48):
Yeah, that's that's like so powerful to just give people
hope So what actually happens inyour brain wouldn't with like
all this neuroplasticity on aneuroscientific Like very nitty
gritty level when you learnthings and when you you know,
change those thought patterns
Dr. Burcin Ikiz (07:05):
Yeah.
so it's very exciting becauseI'm a neuroscientist and I'm,
I'm nerdy and I find this veryexciting, but basically whenever
you're learning something newlet's say it's a new musical
instrument or the quadraticformula, you, your neurons, the
nerve cells in your brain, it'sMake a connection.
This is actually aelectrochemical signaling called
a synapse that goes from oneneuron to another, and that's
(07:29):
when a snaps or a connectionhappens between the neurons.
And so the first time, let'ssay, and then the next time you
pick up that instrument again,or you're, recalling quad.
formula or you're rereading itin your math notebook textbook,
that connection gets firedagain.
So we have a term inneuroscience called cells that
fire together, wire together.
(07:50):
And so the more you practiceyour instrument or the more you.
Study the quadratic formula,that, fire, fire mechanism, that
connection, it's not theconnection between the neurons
get stronger and stronger, andthen they start firing faster.
So the, and they get wiredtogether in your brain.
So every time you, you thenstart using that recalling that
(08:12):
or using it for anything,reaching to that knowledge
becomes so much faster.
And that's exactly how learninghappens.
And there are different parts ofyour brain that can be involved
in this learning process.
you have your hippocampusinvolved, which is also
associated with the short termmemory because you need that
memory patterns to be able toreinforce your learning.
(08:33):
you have your prefrontal cocortex, which is associated with
executive functions and decisionmaking, is also involved with
the learning.
Even your amygdala, the partthat's More linked to your
emotions are become a part ofyour learning process as well.
And during learningneurotransmitters, these
chemical signals like dopamineplay a crucial role in on
(08:56):
signaling reward and reinforcingbehavior and helping to form
memory and learning.
So the brain's general abilityto reshape these connections are
called the synaptic plasticityor neuroplasticity.
Aanya (09:08):
Wow, that's so amazing that our brain has all these
different puzzle pieces thatkind of fit together to make it
so like Incredible so adaptableyeah, I really want to go back
to what you said about likecells that fire together wire
together And just explain thatto everyone so when brains form
new neural connections They getstronger as you use them like dr
(09:30):
He said and Another analogy forthis could be like how a natural
trail would get more solid asit's walked on more because then
those neurons are firing againin those same patterns, and it
just becomes more familiar foryour mind to go on that same
path.
And that's why practice is soimportant in training your mind
to go on that like correct pathin a sense.
(09:50):
An example would be, of learningin school to get better grades
would be like, you practice mathso that you can recognize
patterns in the problems andsolve them.
And the more that you practicethat math and recognize those
patterns, the easier it is foryou to recognize them again.
Or, you know, an example of inmental health, if you recognize
negative thought patterns, Youcan replace them with learning
(10:12):
and practice positive thoughtpatterns.
And the more you practice thosethought patterns, the easier it
gets to not only recognize themwhen they're not there, but also
to just help your brain easilysmooth into that path again.
Or, you know, in an even morespecific example, if you get a
lot of anxiety when it comes totests at school, your thought
process might look like Firstyou start off wondering what
(10:35):
would happen if you don't dowell on the test and your mind
initially begins toautomatically think It means
that you're not intelligent yourfriends and family will be
disappointed in you All yourhard work studying will have
gone to waste You won't be ableto achieve your future goals in
life or like any other thoughtsthat you guys might have That
lead to really zero benefit foryour performance on the test and
(10:57):
they only serve to stress youout and lower your scores and
your mental energy But if youtake a step back, none of those
things are really true.
They're just thought fallaciesand like patterns that your
brain has developed.
And just like a worn dirt path,it's just really solidified
going and firing those neuronswired together.
(11:18):
And in reality, your test isjust not the make or break of
your career, your socialreputation, your time usage, or
any of those other things.
In reality, your mindset is themake or break of all of those
things.
And the moment you realize that,you give yourself the power to
take a deep breath when thoseirrational thoughts that we all
have inevitably enter your mind.
(11:39):
And maybe your anxiety won't goaway just because you, you know,
willed it to.
But you are actively forming anew.
stress free neural pathway andyour cells that fire together
wire together like doctor hesaid and and you're just
actively forming these newpathways for how your mind and
your body handles stressful testtaking or like in this
(12:02):
particular example that we justdiscussed this means you get
better test scores because youcan focus and understand the
importance of your actions overtime rather than you know that
make or break thought fallacythat tied to your single test.
And in the broader sense of thisconcept of neuroplasticity, you
have the ability to change theway you think, feel, and act.
Dr. Burcin Ikiz (12:24):
Absolutely, you're spot on.
And, and so reframing thosenegative thoughts, focusing on
the positive aspects, and aswell as finding these reward
systems that by breaking anegative thought, it can really
reinforce this new and positiveneural pathway.
Aanya (12:40):
Yeah, definitely.
So, like, how would we use thisconcept of like neuroplasticity
and how our brains work toactually learn, information
better and, you know, memorizebetter
Dr. Burcin Ikiz (12:50):
yeah, absolutely.
So one of the ways is justreally repeatedly activating
your neuronal connections byafter recall.
This could be since the more yourecall those connections, the
stronger they get by doing,let's say you're getting, you're
learning the periodic periodictable to do flashcards or
practice tests or very differentmulti modal ways of learning.
(13:12):
So testing one time perhapssaying out loud all the elements
in the periodic table.
And one time, perhaps doing thea flashcard kind of test,
finding different multiplesenses and learning modes that
to make your neuralrepresentation stronger and
enhancing your learning andrecall could be one way.
Another way.
is actually scientists haveshown that giving your brain the
(13:34):
time to process that informationand, and to build that memory,
you need to space out theactivation of those neurons.
So instead of cramming threehours of learning of the
periodic table to one day andexpecting that that will give
you a solid learning experiencedividing it up to let's say half
an hour periods over a week.
(13:54):
time will make that learningmuch more efficient and
effective because it will giveyou a time, time for your brain
to form those connections andthe sleep and rest to really
recover that memory buildingprocess.
Another way is Make thatlearning experience personal.
We all learn in different ways.
Some people learn betterauditory through auditory ways.
(14:16):
Some people are more visuallearners.
Some people need need to movetheir bodies when they're
learning or they need to moreactive recall processes.
So really knowing what's yourbest way to learn and, and
targeting that way of learningfor your learning is really
important.
And finally knowing that chronicstress.
And several other things,internal things can really
(14:36):
impair the formation of your newneurons and hinder your
learning.
So making sure that on the daythat you want to learn that
you're not hungry, that you'renot that your body feels rested
that you you feel not sostressed out will really help
your learning
Aanya (14:53):
journey.
Yeah, those are all such greatpoints.
I wanted to go back to a wordyou said was
neurorepresentation, and I'mjust wondering, like, what
exactly does that mean?
Dr. Burcin Ikiz (15:04):
Yeah, sure.
Neurorepresentation is the wayyou are able to call, let's say
something you're learning, anelement in, in the periodic
table, how it gets representedin your brain, which connections
it makes, what kind ofinformation or other parts of
your brain does it link to?
That's neuro representation, andit's not going to be the same
(15:27):
as, so your way of Viewing thatcarbon would be different than
the way I might relate to thecarbon.
It might be for you.
It might be a visualrepresentation.
For me, it might be actually howit's used in the industry and so
on.
So we all make differentconnections to it and the
representation in our brainswill be different because the
connections we make are notgoing to be identical.
Aanya (15:49):
Wow, that's really interesting.
So like when you get a piece ofinformation every single person
will like connect it to otherpieces of information and it's
like is that how you actuallylike retain information by like
a connection to other things,you know
Dr. Burcin Ikiz (16:04):
Absolutely.
Our brains are very efficientengineers.
They don't like to, they, youknow, they work in, they
actually spend most of theenergy of our bodies are spent
in our brains.
They say that a chess playerduring a chess game can spend as
many calories as a professionalathlete playing any physical
sports.
(16:24):
So our body uses a lot ofenergy, it uses a lot of space
and to be able to economizedthose, that energy and that
space, it, it tries to findshortcuts all the time.
So when you're building amemory, building a knowledge,
it, it builds all these littleshortcuts.
It makes these links to anotherinformation, another connection
(16:45):
it had made in the past and soon.
So, so that everybody's Wherethat one knowledge, that carbon
element will be will be in yourbrain will be different for you,
it will be different for me, andit might be linked to all these
different previously madeconnections and knowledge.
Aanya (17:01):
Yeah.
Another thing was like, can you,so some people will like
visually learn things better orlike some people will be more
auditory learners.
Is it possible to actuallychange the way that you learn
best?
Like if you continuously likevisually learn over time, will
that make you a better visuallearner?
Or is that just how we likeinherently how our like genetics
(17:22):
and our brains are built?
Dr. Burcin Ikiz (17:25):
You can absolutely change them.
That's the learning ways.
A certain.
way to learn is just what yourbody naturally and from birth
feels closer to that will makeit get to the knowledge faster.
But like anything else with yourbrain, you can really train it
to gather information other waysas well
Aanya (17:44):
yeah.
That's just a question I'vealways had.
Like how much of You know, ourlearning methods and our memory
is actually genetic and how muchof it is based on like our
actions, you know, just thegeneral question of nature
versus nurture.
Dr. Burcin Ikiz (17:58):
Absolutely, yeah, and it's like every time
that question comes, it's both.
And that's why I think it'sreally important in our
education systems and most ofthe teachers I have met really
try to do that is Try to bringdifferent modes of learning and
you actually to be able toreally make that learning
process and knowledge strongerin your brain, you do need that
multi modal methods of learning.
(18:19):
It's it's good even though ifyou might be a visual learner,
it's good to have some auditoryinput put too because that just
expands the space your braintakes for that knowledge.
So it will be easier for it tocome back to that knowledge
afterwards through differentclues and links.
Aanya (18:35):
Yeah, I actually, like, I think I read a study somewhere
that was talking about how, inblind people, like, generally
for humans, the visual parts ofour brain is, like, the largest,
holds the most, like neurons,but in blind people, instead of
having that, since they can'tsee, other aspects of their
senses actually, Kind of takeover and grow in that space
instead because they're usingthose senses more
Dr. Burcin Ikiz (18:59):
Absolutely.
Yep.
Yep, and you know differentparts of the brain different
that are linked to differentsenses continue to expand
Especially the one the olfactoryone.
So the one that's linked tosmells They say when the moms
have their babies there thatpart of that brain goes through
the highest level of neuroregeneration, so the growth of
(19:19):
neurons and so on, because itlinks the baby's new smell and
make that connection happen withtheir infants and so on.
So yeah, our body constantlychanges and new, new neurons and
connections get added to thedifferent part of the senses and
you're, you can.
Modify and let's say, and somepeople you know, some, you gave
the example of the blind person,sometimes more with auditory
(19:42):
impairments and people who aregoing deaf, they can have, it's
a slow, it could be a slowprocess and slowly their brain
learns to wire the sensoryinformation through other
methods and, and let go of theauditory one.
Aanya (19:55):
Yeah, brains are just so fascinating but to go back to,
like, how we can use thatknowledge to learn better, like
you were talking about activerecall, so in, practice, rather
than trying to form vast amountsof, like, kind of weak, just,
like, neurons firing by, like,reading and rereading a
textbook, for example, you canactually strengthen your memory
(20:17):
retention of that information Bygoing over and actively using
the neural pathways that storethat information you need So the
more connections you make thelike the like doctor was saying
like the more space thatinformation takes up And this
could mean, you know studyingfor school or like a test by
answering questions By minddumping on topics by maybe like
(20:39):
pretending to teach a thirdparty the concept you're trying
to learn By flash cards by justanything That's practicing
pushing your thoughts along thepath that you want them to lead
by anything.
That's just like practicingmaking those connections that
you want to remember.
So when it comes to your mentalhealth, this means practicing
good thought habits thatactually make practicing those
(21:02):
easier every single time.
It's like just this cycle of,you know, positive reinforcement
and it's like an exponentialgrowth kind of easiness.
And if it's encouraging at allto hear that.
That means that the first timeyou stop yourself from going
down a negative thought loop,that was probably the hardest
time that you're ever going todo that.
So if you just did that one timetoday, that means it's only
(21:25):
going to get easier and morerewarding from there on out.
Absolutely.
Dr. Burcin Ikiz (21:30):
That's how the brain works.
Aanya (21:32):
Yeah, so, like, taking this information into account,
how can parents help their kidsyou know, like, just learn
better and use that not only to,their advantages for, you know,
school and all those kinds ofthings, but also for their
mental health?
Yeah, absolutely.
I
Dr. Burcin Ikiz (21:48):
think one of the key things is to really
create a supportive and openenvironment to there's this
renowned psychologist.
Her name is Dr.
Lisa Dahmer, and she specializesin the emotional lives of
teenagers, and she says that inpsychology a mentally healthy
individual is not someone who'salways happy, who always feels
(22:09):
good, but it is someone who hasemotions that fit to the
situations, and that, who canthen manage those emotions
effectively with certain copingstrategies.
So so welcoming any kind ofemotions, not just the positive
ones, not just the good ones,trying not to fix the bad
emotions.
(22:30):
When somebody says I'm sad, nottrying to give them, Oh, why
don't we just go for an icecream run and you'll feel
better, but actually leaving itup to and having an open
conversation to try to really.
Understand where those emotionscoming from, try to help the
kids see where those thoughtpatterns come from, find where
those triggers that cause thosenegative emotions come from,
(22:51):
could really help them.
And then embracing a growthmindset, teaching the children
the value of effort andresilience and encouraging them
to continue enhancing theirlearning capabilities and mental
resilience.
And finally, modeling thosehealthy behaviors.
And themselves.
So sharing with their kids whenthey feel all kinds of emotions,
(23:12):
including frustration or, or,anxiety and saying, you know
what?
I have a presentation coming upthis morning at work and I'm
feeling very anxious about it.
I think I'm going to take a walkoutside for a little bit to
relax myself.
And when you share that kind ofinformation with the child,
you're giving the message thatit's okay to feel anxious
sometimes.
(23:32):
And there's a way you have,you're, you have the power,
you're empowered to do somethingabout it.
So for the parent, it could beto take a walk outside, maybe
for the kid, you can findtogether if that means a little
jiggle of a dance or or singingyour favorite song or doing a
mindful exercise, anything, butthey're just modeling that kind
(23:56):
of behavior of, that you'reempowered you can manage any
kind of emotion that come to youeffectively would be really
helpful.
Aanya (24:03):
Wow, yeah, I think if more parents thought like you,
the world would be so much of abetter place.
That's so amazing to hear that,you know, like there's ways to
empower kids to, face theiremotions without Going either or
in like saying that oh, youremotions are unwarranted.
(24:24):
You shouldn't be feeling likethis.
And also while saying that, youknow, you have the power to face
these emotions and continuebeing your best self.
And I really like your pointabout leading by example and all
this information thinking aboutneuroplasticity and how it
applies to your kids, thatinformation also applies to you
and your thought patterns, yourlearning.
(24:45):
So, you know, not only shouldyou be kind of making sure that
you're encouraging your kids,but also encourage yourself.
You know, try your best to notsay negative things about
yourself or exaggerate your ownshortcomings as well as theirs.
Because that's kind of wherethese thought patterns form.
You know, rather opt forsomething like Dr.
He's does with where you know,you're just kind of encouraging
(25:07):
them, empowering them.
And I think that's really justthe best way to go about helping
you and your whole entirefamily.
Absolutely.
Yep.
Yeah.
Is there anything else you wantto add doctor?
Dr. Burcin Ikiz (25:20):
Not really.
I would just say the maintakeaway is.
Is that believe in your brains,your brains are these incredibly
dynamic organs and you have theability, no matter where you are
in your mental wellness journey,you have the ability to reshape
your thoughts, your emotions.
And like we said before, youwere empowered to do something
(25:41):
about how you're feeling.
Aanya (25:43):
Yeah, and I think it's, like, very important to say
that, just because you feel bigemotions, like everyone does
like you were saying earlier,it's not about the level of,
emotion that you feel, but it'sabout how you handle that
emotion and how you handle thecircumstances that life will
always throw at you.
And overall, I just want toleave you guys all with the idea
(26:04):
that your thoughts and yourbrain They all have power and
over time you can use like theblessing of neuroplasticity that
we all have in our Incrediblypowerful minds to form healthy
useful neural connections inyour mind yeah, like good luck
with all your future learningand all your future mental
wellness So we actually have anannouncement to make that we're
(26:25):
going to be hosting a parentteen workshop Of sorts with like
a Q& A session as well as achance to get personal help So
if that's something you wouldany of you would be interested
in please stay tuned on oursocial medias for more
information That's going to becoming soon.
Like on our Instagram, ourFacebook, anything like that.
And also I want to give Dr.
Keyes an opportunity to tell usall about her like blooming
(26:48):
company, all her writing andurge you guys to check it out
because she's such an amazingspeaker, a writer a
neuroscientist, and just such aninspiration.
Dr. Burcin Ikiz (26:58):
Thank you Anya.
It's been such a pleasure totalk with you and thank you all
who is listening.
Yeah my, echoneuro theenterprise I have built, it's
actually more of a socialenterprise with the mission of
exploring the connection ofneuroscience with environment.
So I'm really interested intrying to understand how our
(27:18):
environment and our lifestylesaffect and so I'm really
interested to see how, forexample, climate change or our
diets can affect our brainhealth.
And the three goals of EkoNeuroare, one, to increase our
knowledge and understandingaround what affects the brain
health.
Number two, spread that,awareness and that knowledge
(27:39):
into public.
And third is.
to leverage that knowledge intocoming up with solutions,
working with public healthorganizations and so on to
really bring about solutions toimprove neurological and mental
health.
So if you're curious, pleasecheck it out.
It's www.
econera.
org.
We have also all the socialmedia accounts and you can
(28:00):
always reach me out if you haveany questions or if you're
interested to learn more about
Aanya (28:04):
it.
Yeah, if you're interested, Dr.
Keys is such an amazing and liketruly such a kind person to work
with and her company is sointeresting yeah, thank you guys
for listening to this episode,and thank you so much, doctor,
for being here with us today andteaching us all about
neuroscience and also sharingyour company with us, which is
like such an incredible mission,and we hope you all enjoyed and
(28:27):
learned something aboutlearning.
Yeah.
So stay tuned for more episodesand more information on all of
our social medias about our.
Upcoming workshop and We'll seeyou guys next time
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Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!