December 22, 2024 • 14 mins
In honor of the holiday season, we are re-releasing our 12 Days of Christmas special! For the next 12 days, we will re-release one episode a day, each one with our own spin on the classic holiday theme, "The 12 Days of Christmas."
Katie tells about the life of “Mad” Jack Churchill.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
On the eleventh day of Christmas, my true love gave
to me eleven pipers piping.
So, cindy, is there nothingmore dulcet and sweet than the
sounds of the bagpipes?
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Some people might argue with you.
Some people might say no, no.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Have you ever heard a didgeridoo?
Katie, have you?
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Is it super weird that I am jealous of people who
are in professions where theyget to have bagpipes played at
their funerals.
I think the bagpipes are thebest.
That's like the best.
Like you cannot hear a bagpipeand not start like weeping, just
be like, oh, they could beplaying, like we wish you a
Merry Christmas and you're justlike oh, I don't know, Cindy.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Have you heard the wind beneath my wings on an oboe
?
That's pretty haunting.
Well, Cindy, would you besurprised to know that the
bagpipes themselves?
There's evidence to suggestthat it dates back to Roman
times.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Yes, because I did a whole podcast episode on that.
Katie, you just take my podcastand you're just going to
recycle it.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
I do, and then I expect you to be surprised when
I regurgitate facts that you'veliterally given to me.
I'm ready, let's do it Justokay this time around, cindy,
just feign stupefication.
Just feign amazement.
Okay, ready, three, two, one.
Stupefaction.
Just feign amazement.
Okay, ready, three, two, one.
Cindy.
Did you know that the bagpipesdate back to roman times?
(01:50):
What I know amazing.
One of the most famous, mostunbelievably accomplished pipers
of the 20th century would bejohn malcolm thorpe, fleming
churchill, jack churchill, alsoknown as mad jack that was a lot
(02:13):
of names if there's one thingthat I feel like the british,
the british, all of the unitedkingdom enjoys enjoys its
unnecessary surnames and middlenames.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Names for days, so Mad.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Jack was born in 1906 in Colombo, what is now Sri
Lanka.
His family eventually moved toSurrey where he was raised by an
Anglo-Scottish, where he wasraised by Anglo-Scottish parents
.
He eventually went on to moveto Nairobi where he, as an adult
(02:52):
, he became a newspaper editorand a male model.
Whoa whoa.
He did move back to the UnitedKingdom and he actually starred
in yes what did he model?
Speaker 2 (03:05):
don't just bypass that.
I didn't look it up.
I mean it's like 1920, so he'sprobably modeling gloves or
slacks or slacks slacks model.
They're high rise anduncomfortable nothing comes
(03:25):
between me and my pleats.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Man, how do I get me a 1920s pants model?
And he moved back to the UnitedKingdom and eventually starred
in two movies, which allowed himto demonstrate a very unique
skill that he developed as achild archery.
So he did join the armed forcesin 1926, and he was posted out
(03:54):
in Southeast Asia.
There's records of himliterally motorcycling across
India in his free time andeventually ended up in Burma,
which is now modern-day Myanmar,where he that's where he
learned to play the bagpipes.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Really, I did not see that coming, neither did I.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
Not a place that I would expect one to learn a
traditional Scottish instrument,but when in.
Rome, but not After his briefmilitary stint.
He did return to england wherehe it is worth noting that he
did represent the great britainin the world archery cup
(04:34):
championships that year, in 1939, where he came in second place,
unfortunately.
But with the outbreak of WorldWar II he reenlisted and he
became part of the ExpeditionaryForce in France.
Any guess what theExpeditionary Forces did?
(04:57):
their job was they went toantarctica no, you're in the
right vein, um, but they wentand they went exploring yes and
no, so, but this is.
You want to think like militarythey went on.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
They went exploring places that they then invaded.
They're like the scouts,they're scouts.
I got there Just give me 20minutes and I'll get there.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
But you're in the right ballpark.
They're the ones who go outfirst, who have to explore, if
you will, to do somereconnaissance, see who's out
there.
But instead of finding penguins, he found Nazis.
And now the thing about Nazisis you want to sneak up on them
and be very stealthy and killthem in very quiet ways.
(05:45):
And how do you suppose he didthat?
Cindy Back to the longbow.
So, literally, drawing upon hisexperience as an archer, he
would bring a longbow with himinto battle and as an
(06:05):
expeditionary force soldier,this is how he took out a number
of Nazis.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Oh, he's like the Legolas to the military.
He's like sliding down elephanttrunks.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
So I'm like shooting, Shooting off arrows instead of
orcs.
It's Nazis.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
I say orcs, you say Nazis.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Let's call the whole world war off, and Mad Jack was
noted for not only bringing hislongbow into battle with him,
but a long sword, but also abroad sword and his bagpipes,
which he would use to rally thetroops.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
I knew he brought the bagpipes, katie, of course he
did.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
And at the Battle of and I'm probably butchering this
it's Lepinette, Lepinette, Ithink so that's correct.
Yes, during the Battle ofLepinette he used a longbow to
silently cut down a Nazi soldierbefore picking up two machine
guns and firing until he ran outof ammunition, at which point
(07:10):
he led his troops into battlewith his broadsword in hand.
Eventually, he was shot in theshoulder but was able to lead
the rest of his men to safety,despite being wounded.
It's under your frozen, I think.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
No, I'm not frozen.
I was just trying to visualizeall of this happening and I had
lots of thoughts going throughmy head and I didn't know what
to say.
But yeah, that's veryimpressive.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
But this would not be the only time he used
unconventional weapons to rallyhis men and to build a sort of
esprit de corps so that theycould take on the Nazi foes.
In 1941, he was put as secondin command of his unit and they
were sent to Vagsøy, norway,where he and his men would make
(08:02):
a beach landing.
On the way there, he encouragedthem pounding, pounding out
notes, I don't know.
Yes, pounding, belting out.
No, what's the word I'm lookingfor?
Bleeding, bleeding.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Let go bleed.
You bleed them out Bleeding.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Let go Bleed.
You bleed them out, bleed outthose jams.
No, on the way to Vagsor Norway, he encouraged his men by
playing the bagpipes withtraditional Scottish songs to
build up their encouragement.
Oh my God, yes, yes, the morale.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
To boost the morale.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Yes, Thank you.
Thank you, he pounded out someamazing grace on his bagpipes On
the way.
Let's try this one more time.
On the way to Bagsword, Norway,he beat out some sick jams on
his bagpipes to encourage themen to face their ultimate foe.
(09:04):
It was said that he was thefirst one to hurl a grenade at
the enemy and there's videofootage of him charging from the
boats as they made their beachlanding sword in hand to face
the enemy.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Question why did they have swords in World War II?
Speaker 1 (09:25):
I just because why not?
There are still soldiers todaywho will bring knives and swords
and things like that with themonto the battlefield.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Really, I just figured everybody was equipped
with a gun of some kind in WorldWar II.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
I just figured everybody was equipped with a
gun of some kind in World War II.
I mean, as far as I know hecould, he did use guns.
I'm sure it was a standardissue for him to receive a rifle
or whatnot, but it's like Iwould just prefer the longsword.
And who's going to say no to aman who's brandishing a
longsword and a bow and arrow?
Are you going to say no to him?
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Well, and that's the thing.
Is it like if you are, ifyou're, if your leader, if your
fearless leader is pounding outfeats on a bagpipe?
See what I'm doing.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
It's a lot like the chicken dance like that um,
obviously, what are you?
Speaker 2 (10:16):
what are you motivated to reach for your
rifle or your sword?
Speaker 1 (10:21):
you're gonna reach for your sword like that brave
heart instinct in you just comesout and and also just the
amount of sheer bravery to say,okay, you got a machine gun, I
got a broad sword and I'm notafraid to face you.
Absolute, just be, be for lackof a better term cojones on this
gentleman.
Incredible.
(10:42):
But, cindy, our story does notend here by any stretch of the
imagination.
He then was sent to Italy,sicily and Salerno specifically,
and then his unit was sent toYugoslavia, where he was
captured as a prisoner of warand he was sent to a
concentration camp.
Do you think this stopped him?
(11:02):
Did they have bagpipes there?
They didn't, but they had otherpows that he was able to rally
without use of his bagpipes andthey were able to tunnel to
freedom whoa okay, hold on backup back up.
(11:36):
No, a concentration camp wouldnot stop him, but nor would dirt
and earth.
And he heard that he did escapefrom this.
But then I've also heard thatthe prisoners were abandoned by
their SS guards because theyfeared retribution from German
soldiers.
And he did, on foot, make hisway to the Italian border, to
freedom.
But that did not stop him.
(11:56):
He was still ready for a fight.
So as the theater in Europeclosed, he headed back to Burma,
modern-day Myanmar, only tofind that World War II has come
to an end.
And do you know what Mad Jackhad to say when he discovered
that the World War II was over?
If it weren't for those damnYanks, we could have kept this
(12:18):
war going for another ten years.
He didn't want it to end no.
Oh, he had a lot more Nazis tostay.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
Yes, so he did not go quietly into the night.
What happened to him?
Speaker 1 (12:35):
He did eventually go back home to England.
He liked to.
I have to double check this.
I think he liked to likerefurbish submarines or
something like that.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
I figured he'd become a bounty hunter or something.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
No, no Retirement.
Let's see, he was veryeccentric.
In his interests he startledtrain guards and passengers by
throwing his briefcase out thewind, the train window each day
on the ride home.
He later explained that he wastossing his case into his own
back garden so he would not haveto carry it home from the
station.
Uh, but I saw somewhere that heoh, he would refurbish
(13:17):
coal-fired sailing boats and heliked playing with
radio-controlled model warshipsin his retirement.
I feel like eccentric is just avery nice way of saying.
You should probably talk tosomebody or you need a hobby
that doesn't involve stabbingNazis.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
He had the bagpipes, so what if he used them to call
people into battle?
Speaker 1 (13:43):
You know what, cindy, though, if I had someone who
woke me every day with thebagpipes, I feel like I could
get a whole lot moreaccomplished in my life.
Maybe I'll finally fold all ofmy clothes according to the
KonMari method.
I feel like that would reallyhelp me achieve that very low
bar goal for myself, after youmurder the person who woke you
(14:04):
up with a bagpipe After I.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
You don't find them soothing, thank you.
On the eleventh day of Christmas, my true love gave
to me eleven pipers piping.
So, cindy, is there nothingmore dulcet and sweet than the
sounds of the bagpipes?
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Some people might argue with you.
Some people might say no, no.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Have you ever heard a didgeridoo?
Katie, have you?
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Is it super weird that I am jealous of people who
are in professions where theyget to have bagpipes played at
their funerals.
I think the bagpipes are thebest.
That's like the best.
Like you cannot hear a bagpipeand not start like weeping, just
be like, oh, they could beplaying, like we wish you a
Merry Christmas and you're justlike oh, I don't know, Cindy.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Have you heard the wind beneath my wings on an oboe
?
That's pretty haunting.
Well, Cindy, would you besurprised to know that the
bagpipes themselves?
There's evidence to suggestthat it dates back to Roman
times.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Yes, because I did a whole podcast episode on that.
Katie, you just take my podcastand you're just going to
recycle it.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
I do, and then I expect you to be surprised when
I regurgitate facts that you'veliterally given to me.
I'm ready, let's do it Justokay this time around, cindy,
just feign stupefication.
Just feign amazement.
Okay, ready, three, two, one.
Stupefaction.
Just feign amazement.
Okay, ready, three, two, one.
Cindy.
Did you know that the bagpipesdate back to roman times?
(01:50):
What I know amazing.
One of the most famous, mostunbelievably accomplished pipers
of the 20th century would bejohn malcolm thorpe, fleming
churchill, jack churchill, alsoknown as mad jack that was a lot
(02:13):
of names if there's one thingthat I feel like the british,
the british, all of the unitedkingdom enjoys enjoys its
unnecessary surnames and middlenames.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Names for days, so Mad.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Jack was born in 1906 in Colombo, what is now Sri
Lanka.
His family eventually moved toSurrey where he was raised by an
Anglo-Scottish, where he wasraised by Anglo-Scottish parents
.
He eventually went on to moveto Nairobi where he, as an adult
(02:52):
, he became a newspaper editorand a male model.
Whoa whoa.
He did move back to the UnitedKingdom and he actually starred
in yes what did he model?
Speaker 2 (03:05):
don't just bypass that.
I didn't look it up.
I mean it's like 1920, so he'sprobably modeling gloves or
slacks or slacks slacks model.
They're high rise anduncomfortable nothing comes
(03:25):
between me and my pleats.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Man, how do I get me a 1920s pants model?
And he moved back to the UnitedKingdom and eventually starred
in two movies, which allowed himto demonstrate a very unique
skill that he developed as achild archery.
So he did join the armed forcesin 1926, and he was posted out
(03:54):
in Southeast Asia.
There's records of himliterally motorcycling across
India in his free time andeventually ended up in Burma,
which is now modern-day Myanmar,where he that's where he
learned to play the bagpipes.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Really, I did not see that coming, neither did I.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
Not a place that I would expect one to learn a
traditional Scottish instrument,but when in.
Rome, but not After his briefmilitary stint.
He did return to england wherehe it is worth noting that he
did represent the great britainin the world archery cup
(04:34):
championships that year, in 1939, where he came in second place,
unfortunately.
But with the outbreak of WorldWar II he reenlisted and he
became part of the ExpeditionaryForce in France.
Any guess what theExpeditionary Forces did?
(04:57):
their job was they went toantarctica no, you're in the
right vein, um, but they wentand they went exploring yes and
no, so, but this is.
You want to think like militarythey went on.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
They went exploring places that they then invaded.
They're like the scouts,they're scouts.
I got there Just give me 20minutes and I'll get there.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
But you're in the right ballpark.
They're the ones who go outfirst, who have to explore, if
you will, to do somereconnaissance, see who's out
there.
But instead of finding penguins, he found Nazis.
And now the thing about Nazisis you want to sneak up on them
and be very stealthy and killthem in very quiet ways.
(05:45):
And how do you suppose he didthat?
Cindy Back to the longbow.
So, literally, drawing upon hisexperience as an archer, he
would bring a longbow with himinto battle and as an
(06:05):
expeditionary force soldier,this is how he took out a number
of Nazis.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Oh, he's like the Legolas to the military.
He's like sliding down elephanttrunks.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
So I'm like shooting, Shooting off arrows instead of
orcs.
It's Nazis.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
I say orcs, you say Nazis.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Let's call the whole world war off, and Mad Jack was
noted for not only bringing hislongbow into battle with him,
but a long sword, but also abroad sword and his bagpipes,
which he would use to rally thetroops.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
I knew he brought the bagpipes, katie, of course he
did.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
And at the Battle of and I'm probably butchering this
it's Lepinette, Lepinette, Ithink so that's correct.
Yes, during the Battle ofLepinette he used a longbow to
silently cut down a Nazi soldierbefore picking up two machine
guns and firing until he ran outof ammunition, at which point
(07:10):
he led his troops into battlewith his broadsword in hand.
Eventually, he was shot in theshoulder but was able to lead
the rest of his men to safety,despite being wounded.
It's under your frozen, I think.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
No, I'm not frozen.
I was just trying to visualizeall of this happening and I had
lots of thoughts going throughmy head and I didn't know what
to say.
But yeah, that's veryimpressive.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
But this would not be the only time he used
unconventional weapons to rallyhis men and to build a sort of
esprit de corps so that theycould take on the Nazi foes.
In 1941, he was put as secondin command of his unit and they
were sent to Vagsøy, norway,where he and his men would make
(08:02):
a beach landing.
On the way there, he encouragedthem pounding, pounding out
notes, I don't know.
Yes, pounding, belting out.
No, what's the word I'm lookingfor?
Bleeding, bleeding.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Let go bleed.
You bleed them out Bleeding.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Let go Bleed.
You bleed them out, bleed outthose jams.
No, on the way to Vagsor Norway, he encouraged his men by
playing the bagpipes withtraditional Scottish songs to
build up their encouragement.
Oh my God, yes, yes, the morale.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
To boost the morale.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Yes, Thank you.
Thank you, he pounded out someamazing grace on his bagpipes On
the way.
Let's try this one more time.
On the way to Bagsword, Norway,he beat out some sick jams on
his bagpipes to encourage themen to face their ultimate foe.
(09:04):
It was said that he was thefirst one to hurl a grenade at
the enemy and there's videofootage of him charging from the
boats as they made their beachlanding sword in hand to face
the enemy.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Question why did they have swords in World War II?
Speaker 1 (09:25):
I just because why not?
There are still soldiers todaywho will bring knives and swords
and things like that with themonto the battlefield.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Really, I just figured everybody was equipped
with a gun of some kind in WorldWar II.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
I just figured everybody was equipped with a
gun of some kind in World War II.
I mean, as far as I know hecould, he did use guns.
I'm sure it was a standardissue for him to receive a rifle
or whatnot, but it's like Iwould just prefer the longsword.
And who's going to say no to aman who's brandishing a
longsword and a bow and arrow?
Are you going to say no to him?
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Well, and that's the thing.
Is it like if you are, ifyou're, if your leader, if your
fearless leader is pounding outfeats on a bagpipe?
See what I'm doing.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
It's a lot like the chicken dance like that um,
obviously, what are you?
Speaker 2 (10:16):
what are you motivated to reach for your
rifle or your sword?
Speaker 1 (10:21):
you're gonna reach for your sword like that brave
heart instinct in you just comesout and and also just the
amount of sheer bravery to say,okay, you got a machine gun, I
got a broad sword and I'm notafraid to face you.
Absolute, just be, be for lackof a better term cojones on this
gentleman.
Incredible.
(10:42):
But, cindy, our story does notend here by any stretch of the
imagination.
He then was sent to Italy,sicily and Salerno specifically,
and then his unit was sent toYugoslavia, where he was
captured as a prisoner of warand he was sent to a
concentration camp.
Do you think this stopped him?
(11:02):
Did they have bagpipes there?
They didn't, but they had otherpows that he was able to rally
without use of his bagpipes andthey were able to tunnel to
freedom whoa okay, hold on backup back up.
(11:36):
No, a concentration camp wouldnot stop him, but nor would dirt
and earth.
And he heard that he did escapefrom this.
But then I've also heard thatthe prisoners were abandoned by
their SS guards because theyfeared retribution from German
soldiers.
And he did, on foot, make hisway to the Italian border, to
freedom.
But that did not stop him.
(11:56):
He was still ready for a fight.
So as the theater in Europeclosed, he headed back to Burma,
modern-day Myanmar, only tofind that World War II has come
to an end.
And do you know what Mad Jackhad to say when he discovered
that the World War II was over?
If it weren't for those damnYanks, we could have kept this
(12:18):
war going for another ten years.
He didn't want it to end no.
Oh, he had a lot more Nazis tostay.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
Yes, so he did not go quietly into the night.
What happened to him?
Speaker 1 (12:35):
He did eventually go back home to England.
He liked to.
I have to double check this.
I think he liked to likerefurbish submarines or
something like that.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
I figured he'd become a bounty hunter or something.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
No, no Retirement.
Let's see, he was veryeccentric.
In his interests he startledtrain guards and passengers by
throwing his briefcase out thewind, the train window each day
on the ride home.
He later explained that he wastossing his case into his own
back garden so he would not haveto carry it home from the
station.
Uh, but I saw somewhere that heoh, he would refurbish
(13:17):
coal-fired sailing boats and heliked playing with
radio-controlled model warshipsin his retirement.
I feel like eccentric is just avery nice way of saying.
You should probably talk tosomebody or you need a hobby
that doesn't involve stabbingNazis.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
He had the bagpipes, so what if he used them to call
people into battle?
Speaker 1 (13:43):
You know what, cindy, though, if I had someone who
woke me every day with thebagpipes, I feel like I could
get a whole lot moreaccomplished in my life.
Maybe I'll finally fold all ofmy clothes according to the
KonMari method.
I feel like that would reallyhelp me achieve that very low
bar goal for myself, after youmurder the person who woke you
(14:04):
up with a bagpipe After I.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
You don't find them soothing, thank you.
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