December 20, 2024 • 13 mins
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Katie shares the story of the Dancing Plague of 1518.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
All right, cindy.
Nine ladies dancing, woo-hoo,woo-hoo.
Now, cindy, doesn't that soundso pleasant and delightful?
Nine ladies dancing Soundslovely.
It does, until you realize thatthere were some people in
(00:34):
Central Europe and WesternEurope, starting as early as the
7th century, all the way up tothe mid-17th century, who danced
until they died.
What, cindy, have you heard ofthe dancing plague?
No, what?
Yes, this was a real series ofevents.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
I hear it was really contagious.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
It really makes you start to fear songs like the
Rhythm Is Gonna Get Ya.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Saturday.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Night Fever.
So, as I mentioned, as the nameimplies, it was a contagion,
but it wasn't caused by any sortof virus or bacteria.
Instead, this is what'sconsidered a mass psychogenic
illness, also known as masshysteria wait a minute.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
This is an actual illness.
Yes, I thought you were goingto be like people were just
obsessed with dancing and theycalled it a dancing play because
everybody was catching it.
No, this wasn't like.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
This is an actual, actual.
This was an actual, like mentalcondition, mental issue that
manifested in dancing.
So, as I had mentioned, theearliest notation that we have
of this occurring is in the 17thcentury.
However, the most famousoccurrence was the dancing
plague of 1518.
(02:04):
This took place in Strasbourg,in modern France.
So from July 1518 throughSeptember 1518, about 50 to 400
people per day wereuncontrollably dancing by choice
.
No, well, it was just no.
(02:25):
No, cindy.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Not by choice.
They just had a tune in theirhead and they just couldn't get
it out.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
No, not at all.
It started with one individualwoman who just began to dance
uncontrollably and she wasjoined in by allegedly a group
of young women.
But once they started they couldnot stop and this eventually
spread to other people in thecommunity, and at first because
the local doctors and clergymenthought that this was either a
(02:54):
punishment from God.
So they actually the firstwoman who was infected, they
dragged her off to the shrine ofSt Vitus, which is about a
three-day oxen cart ride fromthe village.
The woman was eventually cured,but physicians in the village
thought that perhaps this wascaused by an imbalance in the
humors.
So at this time period peoplebelieved in the different humors
(03:17):
in the body, that if you had animbalance of, let's say, bile
or blood, that that would causevarious diseases.
So they believed that there wasan imbalance in dancing and
they just needed to literallydance it out.
So, according to historicalrecords, carpentry shops and
different halls were convertedinto literally dance clubs so
(03:40):
that people could dance thisfever out.
But that didn't actually happenand more and more people became
infected and started dancing aswell.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Wait a minute.
Sorry, and I don't know if youknow the answer to this, if you
came across this.
But if people said, hey, whyare you dancing?
What would people say inresponse?
Like I don't know, I can't stop, yes, they just could not stop,
yes, and they would be likedesperate they weren't like
(04:10):
isn't this great?
Speaker 1 (04:11):
No, they were really upset.
They were upset.
They literally could not stop.
They were sweating.
There are accounts of peopleyou know literally passing out
or collapsing from exhaustion.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Wait a minute, and what kind of dancing were they
doing?
They're just moving.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
They're all doing the thriller.
It's more of a contortion, andthere actually is a disorder
called Seidenham's chorea whichaffects children between the
ages of five and 15 years of age.
It's more common in femalesthan in males.
(04:53):
It's caused by an autoimmuneresponse following a strep
infection, and the hallmark isan abrupt onset of involuntary
movements of all four limbs.
It looks almost like dancing,the fingers start to move as if
you're playing the piano, andthen also there's dysarthria of
the speech.
The tongue moves inuncontrollable ways.
It's a really horrible,horrible disease.
(05:16):
This is not that, though.
There's more of a psychologicalcomponent to it rather than a
physiological response, andscholars have explored other
possible potential causes.
That perhaps is caused by ergot, so is that familiar at all?
(05:36):
It sounds familiar, but I can'tknow Ergot is a spore or a
fungus that grows on bread andit can have psychedelic
properties when ingested.
So can you think of anothertime when a group of young women
eating spoiled bread went alittle?
Speaker 2 (05:55):
bit crazy.
It was Salem witch trials.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Yes, yes, exactly.
So this theory doesn't reallyhold water because there aren't
any movements of the limbs thatare associated with ergot
poisoning, so that's probablyout.
Some historians believe itcould have been staged like this
was all an act, but to havethat many people involved at
(06:23):
once is a little hard to believe.
I tend to favor the idea thatthis was all like a
psychological response.
Some historians have said thatit could be in response to this
shared stress that I guessduring this time period there
was like significant faminegoing on and, um, people, just
(06:44):
this is a way that they had.
To me, this is a way, was a way.
This was a way for them to copewith that stress and, as almost
like a catharsis, to get it torelieve that shared communal
stress.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Well, and this is a serious comment, because part of
me wants to say, well now, partof me wants to say what are the
odds that everybody is sostressed out that they all are
like let's dance, Like we haveto dance to me pass out?
But on the other hand, I'malways comparing in my mind, I'm
always trying to see what is amodern day version of this
(07:19):
behavior, and the thing is is wedo a lot of the same things to
deal with stress as a population.
Right For COVID, what did weall do?
We all watched the Tiger King.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Yes, or adopted way too many plants.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Exactly, exactly.
So I guess, on the other hand,why?
I mean these people did nothave Tiger King?
They did not.
They had plants but they didn'thave like cute little pots to
put them in and things, maybethat was.
They were like hey, like thatwas their group response, maybe
exactly in an unspoken way.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
that's right and I like that.
You brought up the idea of okay, what's the contemporary
equivalent of this?
And so I did a little bit ofdigging and there are lots of
other instances where this hashappened.
There are examples of likespontaneous, uncontrollable
laughter in girls' schools thatjust permeates through the
community and people justliterally cannot stop.
(08:24):
The most recent example, which Ifound incredibly interesting
because this is also takingplace in Western Europe as well
in Germany, they have seen,since 2019, an enormous spike in
the number of particularlyyoung women who have gone to
mental health professionals forTourette syndrome diagnoses, and
(08:49):
the reason for this theseresearchers have tied it
directly back to the second mostpopular YouTuber in Germany in
2019 is a young man who has mildTourette's syndrome, and these
young women are convinced thatthey, too, have Tourette's
syndrome because he is sopopular.
(09:12):
And these researchers havedetermined that every single
young woman who has gone tothere's I guess, a big
Tourette's clinic in Germany,who've gone to this clinic to
try and get help and get adiagnosis not one has actually
been diagnosed with Tourette's.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
So are these people who are?
Are they suggesting that thesegirls are trying to copy the
behaviors because they want tobe more like this person?
Or is it because this person isso popular he sort of has
permeated their own lives andthey start to think that they're
like him?
Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (09:51):
A little bit of both, but it's not a conscious thing,
it's the adapting of thispersona and I think a bit of it
is.
He's getting so much attentionfor it.
And what was really, reallyinteresting is that all these
girls who come in have a verysimilar profile, because
(10:12):
Tourette's syndrome is asignificant neurologic condition
that affects people.
You have no control over it.
But they found that these girls, they would come in and they
would present with thesesymptoms, but they would
disappear when they were doingpreferred activities.
(10:33):
But when they had to do thingslike schoolwork and things that
they didn't want to do, then allthese symptoms would manifest.
They also found that when thesegirls were told no, you don't
have Tourette's syndrome, thenall of the symptoms disappeared.
How interesting, very bizarre.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
So I'm thinking back to this original woman who
started to dance and couldn'tstop.
Was she just trying to get outof work?
She was like I have beenmarried for 17 years.
I have 12 children.
I'm just I need a break.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
I need to dance all my cares away, my cares away.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
So have we seen the dance plague?
Speaker 1 (11:14):
reemerge.
No, cindy, after the mid-17thcentury it just kind of
disappeared.
So we have not actually seen.
As far as I know, we haven'tseen it come back.
I mean, I was a big fan ofCotton Eye Joe, so I feel like
that was very popular, but thatdoesn't even touch.
(11:36):
That's like the tip of theiceberg, I suppose.
Oh, and one other thing I wouldlike to point out, and I feel
like this is very important tomention.
So when you read some of theseless historic accounts of this,
a lot of stories on YouTube or alot of videos on YouTube or
blog posts, it'll say up to 15people a day were dying from
(11:58):
dancing.
Contemporary reports reallydon't show any vast increase in
people dying in these variouscommunities, because records
were kept of births and deathswithin the community and we
don't see this huge spike oflike dancing related deaths.
So unfortunately, it's not true.
(12:21):
It's not as deadly as one wouldbelieve, although there are
records of other individuals whowere caught up in these various
, these various outbreaks ofdancing mania, who did die.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
But not because of the dancing.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
No, because of the dancing.
No, no, I'm just saying, in myspecific, the dancing plague of
1518, as far as we know, no onedied, but there was a dancing
plague in the 1020s.
There was a dancing plague in1374 in different areas and
people did die of those.
So the next time you goclubbing, hydrate, don't wear
(13:03):
wooden shoes, because that'llcut up your feet, and just live
your best life.
Just let it all go on the dancefloor, but just make sure you
go sit down and take a nap.
Don't actually dance yourselfto death, please.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
I'll try not to Thanks for watching.
All right, cindy.
Nine ladies dancing, woo-hoo,woo-hoo.
Now, cindy, doesn't that soundso pleasant and delightful?
Nine ladies dancing Soundslovely.
It does, until you realize thatthere were some people in
(00:34):
Central Europe and WesternEurope, starting as early as the
7th century, all the way up tothe mid-17th century, who danced
until they died.
What, cindy, have you heard ofthe dancing plague?
No, what?
Yes, this was a real series ofevents.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
I hear it was really contagious.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
It really makes you start to fear songs like the
Rhythm Is Gonna Get Ya.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Saturday.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Night Fever.
So, as I mentioned, as the nameimplies, it was a contagion,
but it wasn't caused by any sortof virus or bacteria.
Instead, this is what'sconsidered a mass psychogenic
illness, also known as masshysteria wait a minute.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
This is an actual illness.
Yes, I thought you were goingto be like people were just
obsessed with dancing and theycalled it a dancing play because
everybody was catching it.
No, this wasn't like.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
This is an actual, actual.
This was an actual, like mentalcondition, mental issue that
manifested in dancing.
So, as I had mentioned, theearliest notation that we have
of this occurring is in the 17thcentury.
However, the most famousoccurrence was the dancing
plague of 1518.
(02:04):
This took place in Strasbourg,in modern France.
So from July 1518 throughSeptember 1518, about 50 to 400
people per day wereuncontrollably dancing by choice
.
No, well, it was just no.
(02:25):
No, cindy.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Not by choice.
They just had a tune in theirhead and they just couldn't get
it out.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
No, not at all.
It started with one individualwoman who just began to dance
uncontrollably and she wasjoined in by allegedly a group
of young women.
But once they started they couldnot stop and this eventually
spread to other people in thecommunity, and at first because
the local doctors and clergymenthought that this was either a
(02:54):
punishment from God.
So they actually the firstwoman who was infected, they
dragged her off to the shrine ofSt Vitus, which is about a
three-day oxen cart ride fromthe village.
The woman was eventually cured,but physicians in the village
thought that perhaps this wascaused by an imbalance in the
humors.
So at this time period peoplebelieved in the different humors
(03:17):
in the body, that if you had animbalance of, let's say, bile
or blood, that that would causevarious diseases.
So they believed that there wasan imbalance in dancing and
they just needed to literallydance it out.
So, according to historicalrecords, carpentry shops and
different halls were convertedinto literally dance clubs so
(03:40):
that people could dance thisfever out.
But that didn't actually happenand more and more people became
infected and started dancing aswell.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Wait a minute.
Sorry, and I don't know if youknow the answer to this, if you
came across this.
But if people said, hey, whyare you dancing?
What would people say inresponse?
Like I don't know, I can't stop, yes, they just could not stop,
yes, and they would be likedesperate they weren't like
(04:10):
isn't this great?
Speaker 1 (04:11):
No, they were really upset.
They were upset.
They literally could not stop.
They were sweating.
There are accounts of peopleyou know literally passing out
or collapsing from exhaustion.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Wait a minute, and what kind of dancing were they
doing?
They're just moving.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
They're all doing the thriller.
It's more of a contortion, andthere actually is a disorder
called Seidenham's chorea whichaffects children between the
ages of five and 15 years of age.
It's more common in femalesthan in males.
(04:53):
It's caused by an autoimmuneresponse following a strep
infection, and the hallmark isan abrupt onset of involuntary
movements of all four limbs.
It looks almost like dancing,the fingers start to move as if
you're playing the piano, andthen also there's dysarthria of
the speech.
The tongue moves inuncontrollable ways.
It's a really horrible,horrible disease.
(05:16):
This is not that, though.
There's more of a psychologicalcomponent to it rather than a
physiological response, andscholars have explored other
possible potential causes.
That perhaps is caused by ergot, so is that familiar at all?
(05:36):
It sounds familiar, but I can'tknow Ergot is a spore or a
fungus that grows on bread andit can have psychedelic
properties when ingested.
So can you think of anothertime when a group of young women
eating spoiled bread went alittle?
Speaker 2 (05:55):
bit crazy.
It was Salem witch trials.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Yes, yes, exactly.
So this theory doesn't reallyhold water because there aren't
any movements of the limbs thatare associated with ergot
poisoning, so that's probablyout.
Some historians believe itcould have been staged like this
was all an act, but to havethat many people involved at
(06:23):
once is a little hard to believe.
I tend to favor the idea thatthis was all like a
psychological response.
Some historians have said thatit could be in response to this
shared stress that I guessduring this time period there
was like significant faminegoing on and, um, people, just
(06:44):
this is a way that they had.
To me, this is a way, was a way.
This was a way for them to copewith that stress and, as almost
like a catharsis, to get it torelieve that shared communal
stress.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Well, and this is a serious comment, because part of
me wants to say, well now, partof me wants to say what are the
odds that everybody is sostressed out that they all are
like let's dance, Like we haveto dance to me pass out?
But on the other hand, I'malways comparing in my mind, I'm
always trying to see what is amodern day version of this
(07:19):
behavior, and the thing is is wedo a lot of the same things to
deal with stress as a population.
Right For COVID, what did weall do?
We all watched the Tiger King.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Yes, or adopted way too many plants.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Exactly, exactly.
So I guess, on the other hand,why?
I mean these people did nothave Tiger King?
They did not.
They had plants but they didn'thave like cute little pots to
put them in and things, maybethat was.
They were like hey, like thatwas their group response, maybe
exactly in an unspoken way.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
that's right and I like that.
You brought up the idea of okay, what's the contemporary
equivalent of this?
And so I did a little bit ofdigging and there are lots of
other instances where this hashappened.
There are examples of likespontaneous, uncontrollable
laughter in girls' schools thatjust permeates through the
community and people justliterally cannot stop.
(08:24):
The most recent example, which Ifound incredibly interesting
because this is also takingplace in Western Europe as well
in Germany, they have seen,since 2019, an enormous spike in
the number of particularlyyoung women who have gone to
mental health professionals forTourette syndrome diagnoses, and
(08:49):
the reason for this theseresearchers have tied it
directly back to the second mostpopular YouTuber in Germany in
2019 is a young man who has mildTourette's syndrome, and these
young women are convinced thatthey, too, have Tourette's
syndrome because he is sopopular.
(09:12):
And these researchers havedetermined that every single
young woman who has gone tothere's I guess, a big
Tourette's clinic in Germany,who've gone to this clinic to
try and get help and get adiagnosis not one has actually
been diagnosed with Tourette's.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
So are these people who are?
Are they suggesting that thesegirls are trying to copy the
behaviors because they want tobe more like this person?
Or is it because this person isso popular he sort of has
permeated their own lives andthey start to think that they're
like him?
Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (09:51):
A little bit of both, but it's not a conscious thing,
it's the adapting of thispersona and I think a bit of it
is.
He's getting so much attentionfor it.
And what was really, reallyinteresting is that all these
girls who come in have a verysimilar profile, because
(10:12):
Tourette's syndrome is asignificant neurologic condition
that affects people.
You have no control over it.
But they found that these girls, they would come in and they
would present with thesesymptoms, but they would
disappear when they were doingpreferred activities.
(10:33):
But when they had to do thingslike schoolwork and things that
they didn't want to do, then allthese symptoms would manifest.
They also found that when thesegirls were told no, you don't
have Tourette's syndrome, thenall of the symptoms disappeared.
How interesting, very bizarre.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
So I'm thinking back to this original woman who
started to dance and couldn'tstop.
Was she just trying to get outof work?
She was like I have beenmarried for 17 years.
I have 12 children.
I'm just I need a break.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
I need to dance all my cares away, my cares away.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
So have we seen the dance plague?
Speaker 1 (11:14):
reemerge.
No, cindy, after the mid-17thcentury it just kind of
disappeared.
So we have not actually seen.
As far as I know, we haven'tseen it come back.
I mean, I was a big fan ofCotton Eye Joe, so I feel like
that was very popular, but thatdoesn't even touch.
(11:36):
That's like the tip of theiceberg, I suppose.
Oh, and one other thing I wouldlike to point out, and I feel
like this is very important tomention.
So when you read some of theseless historic accounts of this,
a lot of stories on YouTube or alot of videos on YouTube or
blog posts, it'll say up to 15people a day were dying from
(11:58):
dancing.
Contemporary reports reallydon't show any vast increase in
people dying in these variouscommunities, because records
were kept of births and deathswithin the community and we
don't see this huge spike oflike dancing related deaths.
So unfortunately, it's not true.
(12:21):
It's not as deadly as one wouldbelieve, although there are
records of other individuals whowere caught up in these various
, these various outbreaks ofdancing mania, who did die.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
But not because of the dancing.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
No, because of the dancing.
No, no, I'm just saying, in myspecific, the dancing plague of
1518, as far as we know, no onedied, but there was a dancing
plague in the 1020s.
There was a dancing plague in1374 in different areas and
people did die of those.
So the next time you goclubbing, hydrate, don't wear
(13:03):
wooden shoes, because that'llcut up your feet, and just live
your best life.
Just let it all go on the dancefloor, but just make sure you
go sit down and take a nap.
Don't actually dance yourselfto death, please.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
I'll try not to Thanks for watching.
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