December 12, 2024 • 22 mins
In honor of the holiday season, we are re-releasing our 12 Days of Christmas special! For the next 12 days, we will re-release one episode a day, each one with our own spin on the classic holiday theme, "The 12 Days of Christmas."
In this episode, Katie explains the origins of the 12 Days of Christmas and shares some stories about several unfortunate people who met their demise via falling from windows.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:12):
Why, hello, cindy?
Speaker 2 (00:14):
We wish you a Merry Christmas.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
We wish you a Merry.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Christmas.
We wish you a Merry Hanukkah.
We wish you a Merry Kwanzaa anda Happy New Year, and also any
other Aunt Hanukkah.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
We wish you a Merry Kwanzaa and a Happy New Year,
and also any other wintersolstice holidays we may have
missed.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Yes, yes, can't forget about all of the other
solstice-y things going on.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Yes, saturnalia.
What did you just say,saturnalia?
Speaker 2 (00:42):
What is that?
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Oh, cindy, we're going to have to do another
podcast on tabas for me to goover saturnalia, what saturnalia
is, how it's the og christmasnext december.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
I'm writing it down right now next december
saturnalia, is that correct?
Yeah, yes, perfect, perfect,but in the meantime, I feel like
(01:19):
we, since the holidays are uponus and I am an enthusiastic
participant in Christmas, I feellike are you also an?
Speaker 1 (01:22):
enthusiastic participant in Christmas.
I believe that twinkle lightsshould be year round oh, I agree
.
Twinkle lights should be yearround oh, I agree.
But to share our enthusiasmwith all of our listeners, our
gift to you this holiday seasonis we have 12 podcasts that we
will be releasing as a buildupto Christmas.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
An advent calendar of not another history podcast
episode.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Yes, exactly A the 12 days of Christmas perhaps.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
That's a great idea.
We should have done that.
Oh, no wait, we did do thatSurprise.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
This is ridiculous and I love it.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Me too Well.
So here's the thing when I wastalking to Katie about doing 12
podcast episodes based on thesong the 12 Days of Christmas,
katie gently reminded me thatthe 12 Days of Christmas
actually don't begin until afterChristmas.
Is that right?
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Yes, december, it's the 12 Days of Christmas
actually covers Christmas untilEpiphany, which is January 6th.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
So technically, speaking, we are doing this way
in advance, but if you are anAdvent fan, an Advent calendar
fan, then we're right on time.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
We're doing it like halfsies, because an advent
calendar is 24 days.
We're just doing 12.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
That's true.
We are like the cheap knockoffDollar Tree store version of a
Dior advent calendar.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Exactly Half as many, but I like to think it's
quality, not quantity.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Maybe for yours, katie, mine is definitely a
little bit more iffy on thequality.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
No, I have faith in you, Cindy.
I think they're going to beamazing.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
So, yes, in honor of Advent calendars, the Advent
season, just the holidays ingeneral, Katie and I are
recording and releasing 12episodes based on the song the
12 Days of Christmas.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Very, very loosely, we might add.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Yeah, there's a little asterisk there, loosely.
It's kind of you know what.
It's kind of like Carl Jung Yep, this is kind of like the
Jungian version of the 12 Daysof Christmas podcast, because it
was more like a wordassociation.
When you say turtle dove, I saysadness.
(03:57):
Exactly Perfect.
This should be a realeducational experience for
everyone.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
And on that note, cindy, without further ado,
before I get into the first dayof Christmas, I do want to talk
a little bit about the historyof the 12 Days of Christmas, the
song itself.
Now, would you be surprised toknow that the 12 Days of
Christmas, the song, the lyrics,actually predate the music that
(04:28):
we know?
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Oh, I did.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Siri, shut up, go away, Siri.
Wait, are you calling me Siri?
Cindy, I'm so sorry, I missedit.
For some reason, she, who ShallNot Be Named, popped up on my
laptop and I don't know how toget her Go away.
Katie, I feel't know how to gether Go away, go away.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Katie, I feel like this is just your chance.
You're taking out some anger onme and you're like no, it's
Siri, siri, shut up, shut up.
Stop interrupting my ad for thepodcast.
I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
I don't even.
How do I get to go get her togo away?
Can you hear me?
Okay, I don get to go get herto go away.
Can you hear me?
Okay, I don't hear.
Okay, because she popped up forme on my end.
Go away, go, siri.
Go away, siri, go away.
She's still here.
Um, I, I all right, I'm justgonna pick up.
So, cindy, would you besurprised to know that the
(05:23):
lyrics for the 12 Days ofChristmas actually predates the
song itself by approximately 200years.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
I'm going to act surprised so Siri doesn't come
back.
I didn't know that.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
So according to the Oxford Dictionary of Nursery
Rhymes, the earliest version ofthe 12 days of christmas it
comes from a 1780 anonymousconnect, a 1780 anonymous
collection of songs, stories andgames in a book entitled mirth
without mischief, which is likea.
(06:00):
I like to think um a late 18thcentury version of.
Like the activity book, like tojust keep kids busy, like here
go mirth yourselves, children.
Mommy's busy churning thisbutter go mirth yourselves
someone else, children, um and I.
(06:22):
I got a chance to see it.
You can find it on the internet.
It's public domain.
It's very interesting because,like, in addition to the and it
says it's a song, but there's nomusic to go along with it the
12 Days of Christmas.
There's also some very fungames you can play.
Something looks a lot like theprecursor to yoga and Pilates,
(06:44):
where you have to like makeletters with your body and
numbers with your body.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
This is in the children's book of mirth.
Yes, in Mirth, without MischiefFrom the 1700s, 1780s yes.
I'm actually really impressedthey had yoga in there.
I thought it would be like takea wooden stick and hit your
sister in the face.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
I also enjoyed that game.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
This is 1780.
There's literally nothing elseto do.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Sticky Facey.
Who doesn't love that game?
I love it.
There's also I found it veryinteresting a precursor to sign
language.
It's called the Art of Talkingwith the Fingers, where you make
different letters with yourfingers.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
I also am well-versed at talking with my fingers.
Sorry, that wasn't at you, thatwas at Siri.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Thank you.
I appreciate that that'sactually a sign of respect in
some cultures.
No, it's not at all.
No, no, not even a little bit.
There's also a game called Loveand Hatred.
It's the story of my life Wouldyou like to know how to play,
are you sure?
Speaker 2 (07:42):
you're not reading a book of all about me, Katie.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
It's possible.
It is anonymous, so you couldhave traveled back in time,
written it and come back justfor this podcast.
It's very possible.
That's why I'm so tired.
So the premise is you play thisgame with a group of people and
it's a lot like, if you've everplayed the I'm going on a picnic
and I'm taking blah, blah, blahgame as like an icebreaker.
(08:11):
But instead of just saying I'mgoing on a picnic and I'm taking
a food, that begins with thefirst letter of my name, what
you need to do instead is totake the first letter of
whomever you love and use thatletter to describe something you
love about that person,something you hate about that
person, a place you would liketo take that person, an activity
you would do with that personat that location and what you
plan to eat and drink with thatperson.
Okay, katie, let's play.
Okay.
(08:32):
So the person whom I lovestarts with a C, and what I love
about this person is she'scapricious.
What I hate about her is thatshe about her, is that she, uh,
oh, shoot, um, she can be a twit.
(08:53):
She can be a twit.
Uh, I'm going to take a place.
I'm going to take her tocalifornia, where we are going
to conquer a winery and we shalleat, eat chips and drink
cabernet, and her name is cindyso good.
The person I love is katie,because she is caring with a k
(09:17):
oh, I forgot to mention if youmess up, you get called out and
then you have to pay a fine, butthat would be determined by the
group.
So you can make it a drinkinggame if you really wanted to, or
something.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
So I thought you were going to say I get hit in the
face with a stick, old, stickyface, sticky face.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
Sticky facey.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
The person I love is Katie, because she is kind and
she kicks kids not children babygoats and I would take her to
(10:01):
Kenya where we would eat koalas.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Koalas, because they are adorable and therefore
delicious.
And rain it's also kiwi fruit.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
We just eat a kiwi fruit too.
She's a carnivore with a king,and we would drink kiwi fruit,
kiwi juice excellent, well done,well played.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
So this is a fun game that you could play with your
family as well around thechristmas tree, if you're so
inclined.
But moving along, the songitself is believed to have come
from france, um, and in itsoriginal version, the 1780
version, the, the lyrics areidentical, except that the
(10:43):
calling birds are insteadreferred to as collie birds with
an O.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Which I will address in my episode on calling birds.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Excellent.
So the current tune, as we knowit was published by Frederick
Austin in 1909.
1909.
And it's worth noting thatthere are.
So this song is considered acumulative Christmas song
because it builds as the songgoes.
There are other songs like thisin Europe, so there's a version
(11:14):
in Scotland, a version inSweden, a version in France and
also the Faroe Islands.
However, there are variationson the number of gifts, the
order in which the gifts aregiven and then also the gifts
themselves.
So like, for example, inScotland, you also receive gifts
of an Arabian baboon and apeacock, in France, you get
(11:35):
biting cows, and in the FaroeIslands you get 14 rounds of
cheese.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
Ooh, that sounds delicious.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
I want to go to Christmas there.
A lot of religious historiansbelieve that perhaps each of the
gifts symbolizes somethingwithin Catholicism, but
generally other scholars refutethat and say that no, that's
highly unlikely, it's just a funchildren's game.
Sometimes a fun children's gameis just a fun children's game
(12:19):
and not actually part of a widerconspiracy or have any more
cultural significance go figureall right.
So, and on that note for thefirst day of christmas, it's
everyone's favorite partridge ina pear tree and a partridge in
(12:44):
a pear tree.
Now, cindy, would you believethat there is some controversy
over what exactly is in thattree?
It's a partridge, not accordingto some versions.
And some versions it's just abow of a juniper tree, and it's
(13:06):
it's possible that it is notactually a pear tree at all, but
it's just a partridge yes, it'sjust a partridge and a pear,
but no pear.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Oh, and just a partridge in a regular old tree.
No, no trees, no trees.
Just a partridge in a regularold tree.
No, no trees, no trees.
And just a partridge at myfront door.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
That would be even more adorable.
So in the French versions ofthe song the lyric is sometimes
written as jolie, which isFrench for pretty partridge.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Perduit, which is French for pretty partridge.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Oh, but if you're American, like us.
Say that again.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Perduit.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
That sounds like pear tree, exactly.
So some historians believe thatbecause the song came from
France to English, that toEnglish ears, perduille sounds a
lot like pear tree and it justdoesn't mean that beautiful
connection, cindy, that indeed,it's just a partridge.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Just a partridge.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Just a partridge, yeah, so are you familiar at all
with the myths surroundingpartridges and how they came to
be, according to the ancientGreeks?
Speaker 2 (14:22):
No, but I'm sure it involves decapitating somebody
and throwing it up into theheavens.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Okay, you're half right on that.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
I really hope it's the decapitation part.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
You got it halfway.
I'll give you credit for it.
So when I was thinking aboutpartridges, it made me think of
this myth.
So according to the ancientGreeks and I know we will will I
will steer the ship back intothe historical realm.
I know we're veering off intomythological land, but I promise
you we will.
I will write the ship.
So, according to the ancientgreeks, the partridge um
(14:56):
originated.
When?
Do you remember?
Do you know, of Daedalus andIcarus?
Speaker 2 (15:00):
yes, the ones who made the wings and flew up to
the sky.
The sun flew too close to thesun.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
So before Daedalus made the wings for his son and
Icarus flew too close to the sun, he had a nephew named Perdix,
which is the Latin name forpartridge and actually a
scientific name for partridge aswell.
So Daedalus's nephew Perdixcame and stayed with him.
And now Perdix was justnaturally gifted very, very
(15:28):
smart, very intelligent,surpassing both Icarus and
Daedalus.
And Daedalus became incrediblyjealous of Perdix that he took
him to the top of a mountain andchucked him off because he
couldn't compete with this child.
Oh no, but do not fret Cindy,because the gods are just.
(15:53):
And Athena, goddess of wisdomand warfare, saw what was
happening to poor Paradix andbefore he hit the ground, she
turned him into a partridge sothat he would not die.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
What if she just instead like put a mattress on
the ground or something?
Speaker 1 (16:10):
and that is how partridges came to be also.
That's apparently whypartridges don't like to fly up
high, because they don't want toget chucked off mountains.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Oh, interesting.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
The more you know.
So, thinking back on this myth,I tried to think of all the
famous historical people who'vebeen chucked out of windows or
off of roofs, or and then turnedinto partridges and turned into
partridges.
None have turned into partridgesso far.
I did find a couple of very sadbut awful ways that people have
(16:48):
met their demise in historyfrom falling off of things.
What comes to mind is in 1993 acanadian lawyer was like inside
some building in tor and inorder to show that the windows
were shatterproof, he ran upagainst it and it gave way and
(17:08):
he fell out of like a 24 storywindow, felt it was death.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Who was there?
Who?
Who was there egging him on?
They were like no, surelythey're not shatterproof.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
I don't know, but who would take that bet, like just
on the off chance?
No, thank you.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Nobody was talking about the bachelor.
Nobody was talking about thegame last night.
Just debating whether or notthe window was shatterproof.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
So that story obviously was too short, not
interesting enough, not historicenough in my opinion.
Short, not interesting enough,not historic enough in my
opinion.
Which brings me to the story ofGriffith Abshwellen.
Is he Welsh?
He is Welsh, cindy.
Yes, yes, I can tell by him,griffith Abshwellen, born circa
(17:58):
1196 CE, died 1st of March 1244CE.
So as a child he was kept as ahostage by King John of England
until he was released in 1215,thanks to a clause in the Magna
Carta which said he had to bereleased.
That's very convenient.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Wow, he had some good connections.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
So he was supposed to inherit his father's lands when
he died.
His father is Shwellen, becausein Welsh Ap Shwellen means son
of Shwellen.
So he was supposed to inherithis father's lands.
But he horribly mismanaged thelands that he was given and his
father ended up taking thoseaway in 1221.
(18:42):
He got super pissed off anddecided I think the best way to
get those lands back is probablyby force.
So in 1223, he brought a hostof soldiers to try and take back
his land.
This did not go so well and hisfather ended up imprisoning him
until 1234.
His father ends up dying in1240, as old men tend to do, and
(19:08):
his brother, dapheth, takesover and imprisons him.
In 1241, king Henry III ofEngland invades Wales and
Dapheth ends up handing hisbrother over to the king to be
imprisoned in the Tower ofLondon along with two of
Griffith's sons.
So Griffith's wife, sanana endsup trying to get her husband
(19:31):
freed from the Tower of London.
She pays a huge ransom to KingHenry.
She ends up paying a hugeransom to Henry in the hopes
that he'll set her husband free.
But unfortunately that's nothow Henry rolls and he keeps the
money.
But and he keeps the money andalso keeps Griffith as a hostage
(19:51):
.
So Griffith, after a while youknow I mean he's been imprisoned
three times in his life he'sgetting a little bit sick of
things.
So in 1244, he decides, youknow what?
It's time to make a break forit.
So I think he's been watchingone too many escape films.
Because he goes and he takesthe bedsheets and he ties them
(20:14):
together, he throws the rope ofbedsheets out the window and and
he makes his way down.
Now I've heard two conflictingstories about what actually
transpired.
There's one story that saysthat the rope that he had strung
together was much too short andhe ended up falling to his
death.
The other says that he was.
(20:36):
As he was scaling down the sideof the tower, he was a bit
corpulent and it broke and hefell to his death and died.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Oh no, he fell to his death.
I honestly, I think that'sprobably what happened.
Those bed sheets, man, thosearen't, those aren't built for
climbing up and down.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
They definitely weren't 400 count Egyptian
cotton, I can tell you that much.
They definitely weren't 400count Egyptian cotton, I can
tell you that much.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
And that is the unfortunate story of Gruthus
Apchuelen.
I'm waiting for the part wherehe turned into a partridge.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
No, he didn't.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Aww, wait, is that the end?
Is that the end of a partridgein a pear tree?
That's it.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
That's a look up.
That's it.
That's the one, guys.
That's it.
That's it.
Someone in history who fell outof a window and died.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
And a corpulent corpse on my front porch.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
And a dead Welshman in my garden.
Dead.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Welshman in my garden .
Why, hello, cindy?
Speaker 2 (00:14):
We wish you a Merry Christmas.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
We wish you a Merry.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Christmas.
We wish you a Merry Hanukkah.
We wish you a Merry Kwanzaa anda Happy New Year, and also any
other Aunt Hanukkah.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
We wish you a Merry Kwanzaa and a Happy New Year,
and also any other wintersolstice holidays we may have
missed.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Yes, yes, can't forget about all of the other
solstice-y things going on.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Yes, saturnalia.
What did you just say,saturnalia?
Speaker 2 (00:42):
What is that?
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Oh, cindy, we're going to have to do another
podcast on tabas for me to goover saturnalia, what saturnalia
is, how it's the og christmasnext december.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
I'm writing it down right now next december
saturnalia, is that correct?
Yeah, yes, perfect, perfect,but in the meantime, I feel like
(01:19):
we, since the holidays are uponus and I am an enthusiastic
participant in Christmas, I feellike are you also an?
Speaker 1 (01:22):
enthusiastic participant in Christmas.
I believe that twinkle lightsshould be year round oh, I agree
.
Twinkle lights should be yearround oh, I agree.
But to share our enthusiasmwith all of our listeners, our
gift to you this holiday seasonis we have 12 podcasts that we
will be releasing as a buildupto Christmas.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
An advent calendar of not another history podcast
episode.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Yes, exactly A the 12 days of Christmas perhaps.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
That's a great idea.
We should have done that.
Oh, no wait, we did do thatSurprise.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
This is ridiculous and I love it.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Me too Well.
So here's the thing when I wastalking to Katie about doing 12
podcast episodes based on thesong the 12 Days of Christmas,
katie gently reminded me thatthe 12 Days of Christmas
actually don't begin until afterChristmas.
Is that right?
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Yes, december, it's the 12 Days of Christmas
actually covers Christmas untilEpiphany, which is January 6th.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
So technically, speaking, we are doing this way
in advance, but if you are anAdvent fan, an Advent calendar
fan, then we're right on time.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
We're doing it like halfsies, because an advent
calendar is 24 days.
We're just doing 12.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
That's true.
We are like the cheap knockoffDollar Tree store version of a
Dior advent calendar.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Exactly Half as many, but I like to think it's
quality, not quantity.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Maybe for yours, katie, mine is definitely a
little bit more iffy on thequality.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
No, I have faith in you, Cindy.
I think they're going to beamazing.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
So, yes, in honor of Advent calendars, the Advent
season, just the holidays ingeneral, Katie and I are
recording and releasing 12episodes based on the song the
12 Days of Christmas.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Very, very loosely, we might add.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Yeah, there's a little asterisk there, loosely.
It's kind of you know what.
It's kind of like Carl Jung Yep, this is kind of like the
Jungian version of the 12 Daysof Christmas podcast, because it
was more like a wordassociation.
When you say turtle dove, I saysadness.
(03:57):
Exactly Perfect.
This should be a realeducational experience for
everyone.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
And on that note, cindy, without further ado,
before I get into the first dayof Christmas, I do want to talk
a little bit about the historyof the 12 Days of Christmas, the
song itself.
Now, would you be surprised toknow that the 12 Days of
Christmas, the song, the lyrics,actually predate the music that
(04:28):
we know?
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Oh, I did.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Siri, shut up, go away, Siri.
Wait, are you calling me Siri?
Cindy, I'm so sorry, I missedit.
For some reason, she, who ShallNot Be Named, popped up on my
laptop and I don't know how toget her Go away.
Katie, I feel't know how to gether Go away, go away.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Katie, I feel like this is just your chance.
You're taking out some anger onme and you're like no, it's
Siri, siri, shut up, shut up.
Stop interrupting my ad for thepodcast.
I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
I don't even.
How do I get to go get her togo away?
Can you hear me?
Okay, I don get to go get herto go away.
Can you hear me?
Okay, I don't hear.
Okay, because she popped up forme on my end.
Go away, go, siri.
Go away, siri, go away.
She's still here.
Um, I, I all right, I'm justgonna pick up.
So, cindy, would you besurprised to know that the
(05:23):
lyrics for the 12 Days ofChristmas actually predates the
song itself by approximately 200years.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
I'm going to act surprised so Siri doesn't come
back.
I didn't know that.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
So according to the Oxford Dictionary of Nursery
Rhymes, the earliest version ofthe 12 days of christmas it
comes from a 1780 anonymousconnect, a 1780 anonymous
collection of songs, stories andgames in a book entitled mirth
without mischief, which is likea.
(06:00):
I like to think um a late 18thcentury version of.
Like the activity book, like tojust keep kids busy, like here
go mirth yourselves, children.
Mommy's busy churning thisbutter go mirth yourselves
someone else, children, um and I.
(06:22):
I got a chance to see it.
You can find it on the internet.
It's public domain.
It's very interesting because,like, in addition to the and it
says it's a song, but there's nomusic to go along with it the
12 Days of Christmas.
There's also some very fungames you can play.
Something looks a lot like theprecursor to yoga and Pilates,
(06:44):
where you have to like makeletters with your body and
numbers with your body.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
This is in the children's book of mirth.
Yes, in Mirth, without MischiefFrom the 1700s, 1780s yes.
I'm actually really impressedthey had yoga in there.
I thought it would be like takea wooden stick and hit your
sister in the face.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
I also enjoyed that game.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
This is 1780.
There's literally nothing elseto do.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Sticky Facey.
Who doesn't love that game?
I love it.
There's also I found it veryinteresting a precursor to sign
language.
It's called the Art of Talkingwith the Fingers, where you make
different letters with yourfingers.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
I also am well-versed at talking with my fingers.
Sorry, that wasn't at you, thatwas at Siri.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Thank you.
I appreciate that that'sactually a sign of respect in
some cultures.
No, it's not at all.
No, no, not even a little bit.
There's also a game called Loveand Hatred.
It's the story of my life Wouldyou like to know how to play,
are you sure?
Speaker 2 (07:42):
you're not reading a book of all about me, Katie.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
It's possible.
It is anonymous, so you couldhave traveled back in time,
written it and come back justfor this podcast.
It's very possible.
That's why I'm so tired.
So the premise is you play thisgame with a group of people and
it's a lot like, if you've everplayed the I'm going on a picnic
and I'm taking blah, blah, blahgame as like an icebreaker.
(08:11):
But instead of just saying I'mgoing on a picnic and I'm taking
a food, that begins with thefirst letter of my name, what
you need to do instead is totake the first letter of
whomever you love and use thatletter to describe something you
love about that person,something you hate about that
person, a place you would liketo take that person, an activity
you would do with that personat that location and what you
plan to eat and drink with thatperson.
Okay, katie, let's play.
Okay.
(08:32):
So the person whom I lovestarts with a C, and what I love
about this person is she'scapricious.
What I hate about her is thatshe about her, is that she, uh,
oh, shoot, um, she can be a twit.
(08:53):
She can be a twit.
Uh, I'm going to take a place.
I'm going to take her tocalifornia, where we are going
to conquer a winery and we shalleat, eat chips and drink
cabernet, and her name is cindyso good.
The person I love is katie,because she is caring with a k
(09:17):
oh, I forgot to mention if youmess up, you get called out and
then you have to pay a fine, butthat would be determined by the
group.
So you can make it a drinkinggame if you really wanted to, or
something.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
So I thought you were going to say I get hit in the
face with a stick, old, stickyface, sticky face.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
Sticky facey.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
The person I love is Katie, because she is kind and
she kicks kids not children babygoats and I would take her to
(10:01):
Kenya where we would eat koalas.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Koalas, because they are adorable and therefore
delicious.
And rain it's also kiwi fruit.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
We just eat a kiwi fruit too.
She's a carnivore with a king,and we would drink kiwi fruit,
kiwi juice excellent, well done,well played.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
So this is a fun game that you could play with your
family as well around thechristmas tree, if you're so
inclined.
But moving along, the songitself is believed to have come
from france, um, and in itsoriginal version, the 1780
version, the, the lyrics areidentical, except that the
(10:43):
calling birds are insteadreferred to as collie birds with
an O.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Which I will address in my episode on calling birds.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Excellent.
So the current tune, as we knowit was published by Frederick
Austin in 1909.
1909.
And it's worth noting thatthere are.
So this song is considered acumulative Christmas song
because it builds as the songgoes.
There are other songs like thisin Europe, so there's a version
(11:14):
in Scotland, a version inSweden, a version in France and
also the Faroe Islands.
However, there are variationson the number of gifts, the
order in which the gifts aregiven and then also the gifts
themselves.
So like, for example, inScotland, you also receive gifts
of an Arabian baboon and apeacock, in France, you get
(11:35):
biting cows, and in the FaroeIslands you get 14 rounds of
cheese.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
Ooh, that sounds delicious.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
I want to go to Christmas there.
A lot of religious historiansbelieve that perhaps each of the
gifts symbolizes somethingwithin Catholicism, but
generally other scholars refutethat and say that no, that's
highly unlikely, it's just a funchildren's game.
Sometimes a fun children's gameis just a fun children's game
(12:19):
and not actually part of a widerconspiracy or have any more
cultural significance go figureall right.
So, and on that note for thefirst day of christmas, it's
everyone's favorite partridge ina pear tree and a partridge in
(12:44):
a pear tree.
Now, cindy, would you believethat there is some controversy
over what exactly is in thattree?
It's a partridge, not accordingto some versions.
And some versions it's just abow of a juniper tree, and it's
(13:06):
it's possible that it is notactually a pear tree at all, but
it's just a partridge yes, it'sjust a partridge and a pear,
but no pear.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Oh, and just a partridge in a regular old tree.
No, no trees, no trees.
Just a partridge in a regularold tree.
No, no trees, no trees.
And just a partridge at myfront door.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
That would be even more adorable.
So in the French versions ofthe song the lyric is sometimes
written as jolie, which isFrench for pretty partridge.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Perduit, which is French for pretty partridge.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Oh, but if you're American, like us.
Say that again.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Perduit.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
That sounds like pear tree, exactly.
So some historians believe thatbecause the song came from
France to English, that toEnglish ears, perduille sounds a
lot like pear tree and it justdoesn't mean that beautiful
connection, cindy, that indeed,it's just a partridge.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Just a partridge.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Just a partridge, yeah, so are you familiar at all
with the myths surroundingpartridges and how they came to
be, according to the ancientGreeks?
Speaker 2 (14:22):
No, but I'm sure it involves decapitating somebody
and throwing it up into theheavens.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Okay, you're half right on that.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
I really hope it's the decapitation part.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
You got it halfway.
I'll give you credit for it.
So when I was thinking aboutpartridges, it made me think of
this myth.
So according to the ancientGreeks and I know we will will I
will steer the ship back intothe historical realm.
I know we're veering off intomythological land, but I promise
you we will.
I will write the ship.
So, according to the ancientgreeks, the partridge um
(14:56):
originated.
When?
Do you remember?
Do you know, of Daedalus andIcarus?
Speaker 2 (15:00):
yes, the ones who made the wings and flew up to
the sky.
The sun flew too close to thesun.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
So before Daedalus made the wings for his son and
Icarus flew too close to the sun, he had a nephew named Perdix,
which is the Latin name forpartridge and actually a
scientific name for partridge aswell.
So Daedalus's nephew Perdixcame and stayed with him.
And now Perdix was justnaturally gifted very, very
(15:28):
smart, very intelligent,surpassing both Icarus and
Daedalus.
And Daedalus became incrediblyjealous of Perdix that he took
him to the top of a mountain andchucked him off because he
couldn't compete with this child.
Oh no, but do not fret Cindy,because the gods are just.
(15:53):
And Athena, goddess of wisdomand warfare, saw what was
happening to poor Paradix andbefore he hit the ground, she
turned him into a partridge sothat he would not die.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
What if she just instead like put a mattress on
the ground or something?
Speaker 1 (16:10):
and that is how partridges came to be also.
That's apparently whypartridges don't like to fly up
high, because they don't want toget chucked off mountains.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Oh, interesting.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
The more you know.
So, thinking back on this myth,I tried to think of all the
famous historical people who'vebeen chucked out of windows or
off of roofs, or and then turnedinto partridges and turned into
partridges.
None have turned into partridgesso far.
I did find a couple of very sadbut awful ways that people have
(16:48):
met their demise in historyfrom falling off of things.
What comes to mind is in 1993 acanadian lawyer was like inside
some building in tor and inorder to show that the windows
were shatterproof, he ran upagainst it and it gave way and
(17:08):
he fell out of like a 24 storywindow, felt it was death.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Who was there?
Who?
Who was there egging him on?
They were like no, surelythey're not shatterproof.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
I don't know, but who would take that bet, like just
on the off chance?
No, thank you.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Nobody was talking about the bachelor.
Nobody was talking about thegame last night.
Just debating whether or notthe window was shatterproof.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
So that story obviously was too short, not
interesting enough, not historicenough in my opinion.
Short, not interesting enough,not historic enough in my
opinion.
Which brings me to the story ofGriffith Abshwellen.
Is he Welsh?
He is Welsh, cindy.
Yes, yes, I can tell by him,griffith Abshwellen, born circa
(17:58):
1196 CE, died 1st of March 1244CE.
So as a child he was kept as ahostage by King John of England
until he was released in 1215,thanks to a clause in the Magna
Carta which said he had to bereleased.
That's very convenient.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Wow, he had some good connections.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
So he was supposed to inherit his father's lands when
he died.
His father is Shwellen, becausein Welsh Ap Shwellen means son
of Shwellen.
So he was supposed to inherithis father's lands.
But he horribly mismanaged thelands that he was given and his
father ended up taking thoseaway in 1221.
(18:42):
He got super pissed off anddecided I think the best way to
get those lands back is probablyby force.
So in 1223, he brought a hostof soldiers to try and take back
his land.
This did not go so well and hisfather ended up imprisoning him
until 1234.
His father ends up dying in1240, as old men tend to do, and
(19:08):
his brother, dapheth, takesover and imprisons him.
In 1241, king Henry III ofEngland invades Wales and
Dapheth ends up handing hisbrother over to the king to be
imprisoned in the Tower ofLondon along with two of
Griffith's sons.
So Griffith's wife, sanana endsup trying to get her husband
(19:31):
freed from the Tower of London.
She pays a huge ransom to KingHenry.
She ends up paying a hugeransom to Henry in the hopes
that he'll set her husband free.
But unfortunately that's nothow Henry rolls and he keeps the
money.
But and he keeps the money andalso keeps Griffith as a hostage
(19:51):
.
So Griffith, after a while youknow I mean he's been imprisoned
three times in his life he'sgetting a little bit sick of
things.
So in 1244, he decides, youknow what?
It's time to make a break forit.
So I think he's been watchingone too many escape films.
Because he goes and he takesthe bedsheets and he ties them
(20:14):
together, he throws the rope ofbedsheets out the window and and
he makes his way down.
Now I've heard two conflictingstories about what actually
transpired.
There's one story that saysthat the rope that he had strung
together was much too short andhe ended up falling to his
death.
The other says that he was.
(20:36):
As he was scaling down the sideof the tower, he was a bit
corpulent and it broke and hefell to his death and died.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Oh no, he fell to his death.
I honestly, I think that'sprobably what happened.
Those bed sheets, man, thosearen't, those aren't built for
climbing up and down.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
They definitely weren't 400 count Egyptian
cotton, I can tell you that much.
They definitely weren't 400count Egyptian cotton, I can
tell you that much.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
And that is the unfortunate story of Gruthus
Apchuelen.
I'm waiting for the part wherehe turned into a partridge.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
No, he didn't.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Aww, wait, is that the end?
Is that the end of a partridgein a pear tree?
That's it.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
That's a look up.
That's it.
That's the one, guys.
That's it.
That's it.
Someone in history who fell outof a window and died.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
And a corpulent corpse on my front porch.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
And a dead Welshman in my garden.
Dead.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Welshman in my garden .
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