May 11, 2024 • 49 mins
In this episode, Katie and Cindy explore the theme, "In Another Life." Katie tells the fascinating story of Dorothy Eady and Cindy shares about the amazing escapes of Yoshie Shiratori.
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Speaker 2 (00:12):
Hi Katie, hi Cindy, are you ready to do this, I
suppose I suppose.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
You know, some people might say that when it comes to
recording we're inconsistent.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Oh yeah, Some people but.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
I say we're more like the elusive pangolin.
Do you know what a pangolin is?
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Isn't it like?
It's kind of like a mammal, butit's got scales.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
It is.
It's like an eater, it's like alittle armadillo-y thing.
Yeah, I think we're likepangolins, right.
We pop up our heads every oncein a while with a history story
and then we disappear.
And when we do appear, people'sreactions shouldn't be like, oh
, it's about time.
They should be excited, likewhen you see a pangolin in the
(01:02):
wild.
People pay a lot of money,katie, to go like on national
geographic expeditions to findpangolins and we don't charge
anything for this people getthis for free and you don't know
what's going on in thatpangolin's personal life like.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Maybe he's got some doctor's appointments that he's
got to go to, maybe his kids arebeing pains in the butts, you
don't know, and he's got to gomeet with the teacher and
discuss strategies forsocialization.
Yeah, exactly, don't judge him.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
We don't judge, we just celebrate that we're here
Exactly and people are gettingthis for free.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
I mean, I heard the most interesting podcast
statistic and I feel like weshould wear it as a as a badge
of pride.
It's something like 90 percentof podcasts don't make it past
10 episodes some really lownumber and then of that
remaining 10% like 90% don't getpast 20 episodes and like we're
(02:10):
way ahead of that.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
We're way ahead.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
So like we're like one percenters, Cindy, this is
very exciting.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Well, my next question is what percentage of
those that make it past thatactually make money, though I
think it's like, I feel, I feellike there's a little asterisk
next to that statistic andthey're like and if you are
recording over 100 episodes andyou don't make a dime, it's
probably your sign that youshould stop.
(02:38):
But we're not gonna stop, katie.
We're to keep popping our headsout when we are available.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
It's a delightful little surprise to our fans, all
five of them.
It's like oh, I thought theydied, but I guess they're still
around because they're stillmaking podcasts.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Good for them, good for them, good for them, good
for them, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
On that note, katie, we do havea podcast planned for today, we
do.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
What's our topic?
It is In Another Life.
So you came up with this topic.
I did yes, because I had astory kind of in mind and it's
history.
It happened in the past, um,that's for sure.
Um, but I want to try somethingjust like a little different.
(03:33):
So I'm very interested inseeing what your, your reaction
is gonna be, and I'm gonna kindof veil it in a little bit of
secrecy.
I feel like if I, if I tell toomuch or I get too much into it,
it's going to give too much away.
So I just want to ooh, it'sgoing to be interesting Lean
into the unknown.
Cindy.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Lean into the unknown .
So it's a history story, but wedon't know where it's going.
No, so it's kind of like in thefuture it could be.
Look at the layers, katie.
How are we not raking in themoney?
Speaker 2 (04:05):
with this.
There's no one paying for thesweet, sweet content I don't
know.
I okay, let me preface thiswith I feel like I had a really
strong start to it, um, andwe'll see how things go.
We'll see, um, and that's whatI'm gonna say and I won't reveal
(04:26):
, like, the title to the endbecause, again, I feel like it's
gonna give away too much.
I just wanna wait, wait.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
You have wait, hold on.
Yeah, there's a title to it.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
You titled your podcast story yeah, don't, we
don't, we don't we the title.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
You already told us the title.
Oh what?
Speaker 2 (04:45):
it's about.
Like the person who it's about,oh, oh.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Wait.
So you're going to tell me thestory and then tell me who it is
?
I'm so confused I've not beentracking.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Maybe we should go back down our pangolin hole.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
We're just drooping our little pangolin heads.
Where do they even live?
What do they?
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
They're not subterranean, I don't know,
maybe they live in trees.
We should go climb back up ourpangolin tree, go in our
pangolin nest or our pangolincomforter over our little
pangolin nest, go back to sleep,go back to sleep.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Go back to sleep.
Maybe people will be excited tosee us again next time.
Maybe We'll do better.
We'll do better.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
So the person that this is about, I can tell you
it'll run, it's going to be fine.
Her name is Dorothy LouiseEadie.
Bring any bells.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Not a single bell Excellent.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Excellent, all right.
So Dorothy Louise Edie was bornon a snowy day on the 16th of
January in 1904 in lovelyEngland.
She was her parents' only childand the apple of her mother's
eye.
She was described as being asweet and very precocious child.
She was really full of life andenergy.
(06:07):
But unfortunately, when she wasthree, she was playing next to
a stairwell and fell down aflight of stairs with her tiny
little body just falling headover foot against each little
step.
Until she came to a stop at thebase of the stairs, she wasn't
moving.
Her parents immediately rushedto her side to see how she was,
(06:31):
but she wasn't breathing, shewasn't moving.
They were really worried abouther and you have to remember,
this time there are noambulances, there's no
paramedics, so they had to callfor a doctor and just pray and
wait.
Once the doctor finally didarrive, he told them that their
precious baby girl was gone.
Her parents were absolutelydevastated.
(06:53):
Again, this is their only childand the doctor told them that
you know, I need to go, I needto get her death certificate,
but I'll come back, I'll bring anurse with me and we'll get her
all ready to be taken away andyou know, and we'll handle this.
So the doctor did come backabout an hour later and the
nurse goes upstairs to washDorothy's body and dress and
(07:15):
prepare her for burial, and thedoctor stays downstairs to
console her family.
And when the nurse getsupstairs and opens the door, she
sees Dorothy sitting upright inbed playing with a doll as if
nothing has happened.
What?
And she showed no signs ofhaving suffered any injury
(07:35):
whatsoever.
What?
Yes.
However, not long afterDorothy's seemingly miraculous
recovery, her parents started tonotice that things were just a
little bit different.
So she started to have thesereally horrible nightmares where
(07:57):
she would just be like lost inthis giant room and there were
just these huge columns, andlike her mom would wake her up
in the middle of the night andshe would just burst into tears
and just say I just want to gohome, I just want to go home.
And her parents would insist,like you are home, you're fine.
And she, she just no, I'm not,I need to go home.
(08:17):
And when they would ask herokay, so where is home she?
She couldn't explain to themwhere it was, but she just was
so insistent, like I need to gohome, you need to let me go home
, you have to help me.
But Dorothy's difficultiesextended beyond just home.
So, like one Sunday morning,her parents were asked to like
come and pick her up early fromSunday school.
And when they met with theteacher they were told you
(08:39):
cannot bring her back to Sundayschool.
And when they asked why, theteacher said well, dorothy keeps
getting into arguments with meabout what I'm trying to teach
and she keeps referring toChristianity as a heathen
religion and she doesn't wantany part of it.
She can't come back what.
They're totally confused bythis, but they agreed.
(09:02):
Another thing that they noticedthat was like a little bit
different about their baby girlwas that, you know, even though
she was born and raised inLondon, she started to speak
with a very strange accent, likeshe didn't sound like she was
British, it was just like herpronunciation just sounded
really off all of a sudden.
And you know they weren't tooworried about things.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Okay and you know they weren't too worried about
about things okay.
I would love to meet thiscouple and see how just calm and
chill they are.
If my child started to speak ina british accent, maybe for the
first day or two, but that'sadorable.
She's been watching a lot ofpeppa pig and then after day two
, I'd be concerned.
I imagine this is before PeppaPig and they're also British too
, so she wouldn't copy.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
I imagine they were probably just like relieved that
she was alive and like, okay,she's got a funny accent, but at
least she's alive, she's notdead, whatever, it's gonna be
okay.
So you know, things just kindof carried on and you know they,
they thought that getting herout and taking her to different
places might kind of distracther.
(10:12):
Um, and and one day theydecided, you know, let's take
her to a place that everyfour-year-old loves, let's take
her to the british museum and,by all accounts, are these
four-year-olds?
Speaker 1 (10:23):
are they?
Are they us, katie?
Are they you and me?
Speaker 2 (10:27):
that would be four-year-old that would be and,
by all accounts, when they tookher to the british museum, she
absolutely hated it, everysingle minute of it as a typical
four-year-old would you knowdragging them.
I mean unless, again, unlessit's you or me.
But you know theyfour-year-olds.
They find they are not excitedby mesoamerican pottery or
(10:50):
japanese woodblock prints, likewhatever they don't.
She was not interested untilthe family turned a corner and
her eyes grew wide.
Her mouth gaped open and shewhispered this is my home.
She ran around this room.
(11:11):
She was kissing the feets ofstatues, she was pointing at
dioramas of temple complexes andsaying that's where the gardens
are supposed to be.
The fountain should be overhere.
She came to this giantsarcophagus and she told her
mother these are my people, I amhome.
Her parents had taken her tothe ancient Egyptian.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
She's an ancient Egyptian.
Come back as a four-year-oldBritish girl.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
And from that day, after any chance that she got to
go back to the British Museumand go back and see the
artifacts she would.
She practically lived at theBritish Museum, so much so that
the head of the Egyptianantiquities at the time, ea
Wallace Budge, kind of took herunder his wing and encouraged
her to learn hieroglyphics andkind of helped her out in her
(12:02):
studies.
But she didn't knowhieroglyphics already.
I know it's a little difficult,but I mean she's also four,
she's also four, so like shedoesn't know how to write.
I mean, she was older than thisonce he got to her.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
I know You're not quite through the story yet, but
I'm just like.
I'm calling your bluff ladyLike little girl and girl, and
apparently so.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
When she was six she saw a picture of the ruins of
the temple of Abayos and she wasable to like, positively
identify the temple, like that'sthat's where I lived, that's
that's when I have been havingthis dream, that's that's the
temple.
And she also pointed to apicture of a mummy.
Um, in that same like newsclipping or magazine article,
(12:44):
and she named it.
She said, like, oh, that's he'smy friend, I know him.
That mummy turned out to be themummy of Seti the first, who
was the Pharaoh and ruler ofEgypt around 1300 BCE.
And like she, she in detaildescribed like what his
personality was like, who he was, like his son Ramses the second
(13:04):
, who is indeed his son.
In real life, she woulddescribe him as oh, he's a very
vivacious young man, he's verysweet, he's very kind, he could
be a little raucous, but he'svery nice.
And just how could asix-year-old know those things,
mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
And into her teenage years shewould continue to have these
(13:26):
very vivid dreams about thetemple and what her life was
like there, and over time shewas kind of able to piece these
dreams together and to revealher past life, and so apparently
she was the daughter of asoldier who, following the death
of her mother when she wasthree years old, he couldn't
afford to keep her, so heoffered her up to the temple of
(13:49):
Qol el-Sultan, which is like atemple to the goddess Isis, and
offered her to be like apriestess in training, and she
eventually became like aconsecrated virgin.
Her name was Ben and I'mprobably butchering this, but
Ben Thristrit and as a highpriestess of Isis, she
(14:09):
eventually became acquaintedwith the pharaoh, seti I, and
over time the two became lovers,which is strictly verboten.
She eventually became pregnantand, rather than bring shame to
the pharaoh and an eventualtrial which would ultimately
lead to her execution, shekilled herself and her love of
(14:32):
Egypt.
It never dissipated.
It never went away.
In 1931, she moved to Egypt withher boyfriend.
At the time, his name was ImamAbul Meghoud.
He became a teacher of Englishin Egypt and they married once
they got there.
According to her report,because we do have records and
(14:55):
interviews with her as soon asshe reached Egypt she fell on
the ground and kissed it andsaid I'm home, I'm finally home.
They lived in Cairo for a while.
She eventually had a son whoshe named Seti, go there After
her original boyfriend and shejust became completely ingrained
(15:16):
in egyptian culture because forher, this was home, this is
where she was supposed to be um.
Eventually, she and her husbandseparated.
He moved to iraq, but shestayed in egypt with her son and
she met with you know otherfamous egyptologists and she
became um.
She worked as like a translatorfor them and she worked.
You know other famousEgyptologists and she became um.
(15:37):
She worked as like a translatorfor them and she worked.
As you know, the term is ashovel bum, so it's individuals
who work for archaeologists andtheir archaeologists themselves
dig up, help to dig up remains.
What not like?
Not human remains they can behuman remains but, like um,
excavate different sites andthat that sort of.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Thing.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
And she worked on a number of different research
projects and was very wellregarded in her own right, even
though she didn't have this kindof like traditional training as
an archaeologist.
But she would maintain thisclaim that, no, I am ancient
Egyptian.
I know this, I know that andyou know people did try and test
(16:20):
her.
In fact hold on, I'm movingfrom my notes, I'm sorry I have
to edit this out and she stayedin Cairo for quite some time,
but eventually she did move toAbydos where again, she felt
like that was her home, whereshe'd always been, and she set
up a home there with her son andshe was referred to as Om Seti
(16:41):
by the locals.
So Om means like mother, andSeti is the name of her son.
And it's customary in Egyptianvillages that you refer to a
mother by the name of theireldest child and she's
henceforth, you know, from thefifties onward.
That's how she referred toherself and how others referred
to her.
So she dropped the name Dorothybecause it truly wasn't who she
(17:04):
was, um.
And after she set up her homethere, um, she did have a um.
She had an archeologist whokind of like challenged her
claim that she was who she saidwho she said she was.
So when she did make a trip tothe temple of Seti, the chief
inspector there from theantiquities department asked her
(17:28):
some questions about okay, youknow, what is that painting over
there?
That's completely obscuredwhat's on there?
And she was able to say, oh,this is what it looks like, and
there was no way that she couldhave known what was on there and
the information, like thepapers, about what was featured
on the wall hadn't been releasedyet and it was obscured, so
(17:52):
there was absolutely no way thatshe could have known unless she
had somehow had some priorknowledge.
Um, she, there are otheraccounts of you know, apparently
she asked them to tell otherarchaeologists asked her to,
like, map out where certaingardens were or where, like, the
footprint of a temple was, andshe would mark it out perfectly.
And when they excavated it, itturns out, all of her dimensions
(18:13):
were correct and, and I mean,she lived out the rest of her
existence in Egypt, um, at thetemple of um Abydos, um, and
there's, if you go on YouTube,you can see a video interview of
her, of her from the sixties,talking about, you know, her
accident as a child and comingto Egypt and and you know it's
(18:35):
toned down a little bit Like shedoesn't talk about how like
said he was her lover.
She just kind of.
Oh, yes, I knew him, and he wasvery nice and very kind and she
became a bit of like a localoddity and tour groups would
come and visit her and cruiseships would stop by, like people
from cruise ships would stop byto speak with her and kind of
get a little bit of a little bitof her, her story.
(18:57):
But also she was very, veryentrenched in egyptian culture,
um, ancient egyptian culture inparticular.
But until the day she died shemaintained yes, I am this, I am
who I say I am.
And in the interview sheactually talks about how some
people think maybe the fall, itknocked a screw loose, and then
(19:21):
other people believe that maybeI did die and my soul left and
it was re-inhabited by anintrusion spirit.
And when the interviewer says,well, what do you believe?
And she kind of smirks andshe's like the second one, she
really truly did believe thatshe had the soul of a
(19:44):
reincarnation of an ancientEgyptian priestess.
That's the story of Um Sedi.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
You're going to end on that note.
Nope, I'm not going to let youend, katie.
I have so many questions, notquestions for you per se, but
just questions in general.
Okay, so, okay.
So, based on the story, thatthe way you told it, it sounded
kind of like she was somebodywho this om om seti person was
(20:11):
growing along with her, yes,like she was inhabited by a
three-year-old Egyptian girl,and then that person continued
to grow, or it was a differentlevel of sophistication.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
No, I think it was a different level of
sophistication.
I think it's that the womanthat priestess like in her fully
adult form somehow got intothis three-year-old's body.
Okay, and over time, the truestory of what happened was
revealed to her through herdreams.
Over time, cause I I think it'sa lot for a three-year-old to
(20:49):
kind of handle, like oh, by theway, you were the lover of this
Pharaoh, and then you offedyourself when you found out that
you were pregnant by accident.
So that that's my interpretation.
Now I'm gonna, I'm gonna turn,turn the turn the tables on you
a little bit, do you think?
What do you think?
Do you think this is real?
(21:09):
Do you think it's just a headinjury?
The tbi, what?
What do you think?
Speaker 1 (21:13):
what do you think?
So what I think is I think thislittle girl fell down the
stairs.
It knocked her soul out.
This high Egyptian priestesscame in, took over her body,
which means that a four or threeyear old soul went and
inhabited an Egyptian woman, anancient Egyptian woman, and for
(21:35):
a long time, people in anancient Egyptian woman and, for
a long time, people in thatancient Egyptian community were
very confused.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Like why is she speaking?
Why is she speaking thislanguage?
We don't understand.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
That's the thing, right.
Can you imagine, then, athree-year-old running around
speaking British?
Speaker 2 (21:56):
English and we're speaking ancient Egyptian with a
British English accent, with aBritish, my, my take, my hot
take, I don't.
So I go back and forth because,like she, she fell down the
stairs and was like clinicallydead, right or otherwise.
(22:17):
It was a really awful doctor, Iguess.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
That's true.
We haven't explored this doctoryet, right?
Who was like she's absolutelydead.
We need to go prepare her bodyTotally dead 100%.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
And then comes back an hour later and she's sitting
up like nothing happened, butshe's ready to watch Bluey.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
Because it takes a while for souls to transfer
across it's complicated.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
It's like a dial-up, like you gotta leave it on
overnight for it to download myhot take is.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
I think it was just.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
I want to 100% believe that it was just a brain
injury and it created thiswhole world in her little brain
Because the parent believingthat she's spoken a different
with a funny accent, likeforeign accent syndrome, is a
real thing.
That happens after some peopleget brain injuries, where you
sound like you have an accentbut you don't actually have an
(23:17):
accent.
It's just the way that you'reperceived by others based on on
like your speech sounds.
But what I have such a hardtime rationalizing is like she
was four and completelyinsistent that she was ancient
Egyptian, which, when I'massuming like she hasn't been
exposed to really ancientEgyptian culture, like she
(23:39):
doesn't really have anunderstanding of it.
Yeah, as I'm assuming, mostVictorian children did not
really get out to the BritishMuseum.
Much didn't really like.
How could she recognize it orso passionately be like no, that
is it, that's, that's my life.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
So I definitely think it's weird how this three,
four-year-old suddenly had astrong interest, and and not
even just interest, but she wasjust drawn to the ancient
Egyptian culture and knew somuch about it already.
But then when she gets older,okay, it is weird that she kind
(24:15):
of can predict where perimetersof things are, what's on
paintings.
But at the same time too, I'mlike, is it the kind of thing
where maybe she just did a lotof research and not
intentionally?
I don't think she's trying tonecessarily mislead people on
purpose, but maybe once you'veread a few books about how
(24:35):
ancient Egyptian gardens weretypically constructed, you can
kind of guesstimate.
You know, okay, this is how bigit's going to be, most likely,
this is kind of where thesepieces are going to be.
Does that make sense?
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Yeah, if you know what traditional motifs look
like in art, you can kind ofpredict and I can see that as a
fan of the Roman Empire Likethere will be eagles, there will
be figs, there will be, I seethere will be a person with hair
(25:08):
down to here about here wearinga linen cloth and there's
probably like an owl, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Like, oh my gosh, she knows Also.
This is what I say.
I call her bluff because shedidn't know hieroglyphics.
She had to be taught and atfirst I'm like, okay, if she's a
three-year-old Egyptian child,I get it.
She hasn't been taught.
If she's supposed to be this,you know, older woman, a high
priestess is that what you said?
(25:40):
Perhaps like a high priestess,you're telling me she had to be
taught by a british gentleman inthe british museum and do
hieroglyphics?
Speaker 2 (25:50):
like no, that's where I draw the line.
You're true that you make avery good point like and why
can't you just rattle off theancient egyptian as well?
Like, even if you couldn'twrite it?
Speaker 1 (26:02):
you can write the hieroglyphics just right, you
know what's going to be in thepaintings.
Yeah, you know about your lover.
You, oh, you hung out withramses the second and he's
vivacious, but you can't readthe hieroglyphics.
I that being said, I do thinkthis is katie and this is what
I've always said.
(26:22):
This is what I've always said.
You know, we're all onetraumatic brain injury away from
being history fans.
This is why we all should likeand subscribe this podcast.
True, yeah, it's probably trueif it happened to dorothy, but I
do love the idea that theyswitched bodies.
(26:42):
It's like where, where didDorothy go?
Where did she go.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
I like to think she didn't actually leave, she just
like made space, oh true.
And then the priestess came inand then Dorothy came back and
they're like oh wow, I guesswe're roommates now.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Move over, little girl.
Did I tell you about our lover?
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Buckle up, sweetie, you're going to learn some hymns
to Osiris tonight.
I just want to watch Bluey.
I just want to watch Bluey.
No, aww, no, we're going toread Bluey.
No, aww, no, we're going toread the ancient Egyptian book
of the dead.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Where is she buried?
Do we know?
Oh?
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Egypt.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Did she have?
Where was she, did she?
Speaker 2 (27:37):
She did not get turned into a mummy.
She did not.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
That's where I was going with that.
I'm wondering if she was likeyou know what I'm, if she was
like you know what I need?
I'm an.
I'm an ancient egyptian,ancient egyptian high priestess.
I deserve my own tomb, Ideserve my own sarcophagus, and
you better mummify me the bestwe can do is this urn from home
(28:01):
goods for pottery barn my kidsbetter spring for the Pottery
Barn one.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
It's got to be fancy.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
So the topic you came up with was In Another Life,
which I totally see theconnection to your story.
For somebody who did not havethat story already in mind, it
was a little tricky to figureout something.
But I'll say that I came upwith my story idea.
It didn't come to me from areading.
It didn't come to me from, youknow, reading a history book or
(28:33):
something.
It actually came to me in song.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
What's which song.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
In another life I would make you stay, stay.
Do you know this song familiar?
Speaker 2 (28:51):
hum, a few more bars.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Cindy, I'm almost there so I don't have to say you
were the one that got away.
I'm so proud of you, I'm soproud of myself, thank, thank
you, katie.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
I think I much prefer the Cindy cover, to be honest.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
My debut album is set to come out in, but yeah, I it
made me think of a Katy Perrysong, and specifically the one
that got away.
Uh, the one that got away.
(29:36):
So my story is the story ofyoshi shiratori, aka the prison
break magician.
So this is, I'm taking yourstory, katie, and I am just like
giving you the completeopposite version of this.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
I love it.
I love Like.
This is why we come up, we pickrandom topics, because it's
like okay, see how you can makeit fit.
I don't care how much you haveto try and shoehorn things to
fit into.
Like, just do it, just go forit, be as creative as you can.
And I love it.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
In my case I'm as random as possible, but I
actually think there could be aslight connection between our
stories.
Well, really, we'll discussthis.
We'll discuss this.
So Shiratori was born in Japanin 1907.
Over the years, he held avariety of jobs, including being
a fisherman and working in atofu shop, but eventually he
(30:26):
fell in with a bad crowd, likelike it happens sometimes, and
he took up gambling and stealing.
In 1936, shiratori was arrestedfor robbery and murder.
Shiratori claimed he had beenfalsely accused of murder, but
nonetheless, a jury found himguilty and he was sent to aomori
prison.
(30:46):
Now, the condition of Japaneseprisons at this time wasn't.
It wasn't great.
Uh, there were not the best,not the best of times.
Uh, the living conditions werehorrendous.
There was a lot of torture, alot of abuse, and same at this
(31:08):
Aomori prison.
Like the other prisoners atAomori, shiratori was tortured
by guards and when he could nolonger handle this abuse, he
decided to plan his escape.
He began by memorizing theguards' schedule.
As he observed the guards, henoticed there were some gaps in
the security and he discoveredthat there was a 15-minute
(31:29):
window during which he couldescape.
Shiratori then used a piece ofwire he had taken from a bucket
in the bathhouse and he pickedthe lock on his cell.
He also pulled up pieces of hisfloorboard and hid them in his
bed so as to buy him some moretime to escape without being
detected.
Because when the guards came byto do their night check,
(31:51):
they're like oh yeah, that's notjust a bunch of floorboards in
that bed, that's a human being,that's not a pile of lumber,
that's a human.
His plan, katie, it went offwithout a hitch and the guards
had no idea he was gone for likehours, had no idea he was gone
for like hours.
But sadly for shiratori, threedays later he was captured by
(32:11):
the authorities and he was sentback to prison, but this time he
was given a life sentence.
So not only was he going backto prison, but he was going back
to prison for life forever.
When world war ii started,shiratori was sent to akita
prison.
Akita prison was even harsherthan aomori.
At akita prison, prisoners wererequired to sleep on concrete
(32:34):
floors and do manual labor, andbecause shiratori had a
reputation as an escaper or, ifyou're in the school system, in
a loper, I like to call it aloping.
Uh, did you?
Speaker 2 (32:48):
ever use that phrase it's, it's.
It's so fun, though, like I'mgoing to a loop it's so fun.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
It just means I.
I ran away, but I'm in.
Loping sounds so joyful anyway.
Shiratori.
Because of his reputation rightas an escaper, Shiratori was
automatically locked in solitaryconfinement.
Now the thing about solitaryconfinement is that the cells
were designed to make escapebasically impossible.
(33:16):
The cell itself had high,smooth copper walls with only a
skylight at the very top.
On top of that, prisoners insolitary confinement were kept
handcuffed inside the cells evenwhen they were sleeping.
So good luck trying to escapesolitary confinement at this
prison.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
You know what, Cindy, though I'm sorry to interrupt,
but that sounds like my idealMother's Day sounds like my
ideal mother's day.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
I am in a room.
No, I can't get out.
Nobody can get in.
It's peace and quiet.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
No one's going to ask for me to open their fruit
snacks.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
I'm sorry, I'm handcuffed.
Literally I'm handcuffed.
My hands are tied.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
And then get mad at me when I open it the wrong way,
because I know that there's awrong way to open it.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
I didn't.
You know not all of theseprisons, but some of these
prisons that I'm mentioning.
They have been turned intomuseums in Japan and so I feel
like there is an opportunityhere to make some money.
You know how people will rentout rooms.
In English banners they couldhave a Mother's Day weekend
(34:40):
special.
Leave your family behind, cometo Akita Prison for a special
mother's day treat.
We will.
We promise to leave you alone.
Now, katie, you may not want toleave Akita Prison, but
(35:05):
Shiratori did.
So.
He wasn't flustered by thecopper walls and handcuffs.
At night he would practiceactually scaling the walls.
So I should mention, he'sreally good at getting out of
handcuffs, like that's a noproblem for him.
So he would get out of hishandcuffs every night and he
(35:25):
would actually practice scalingthese tall walls.
There was also an air vent atthe top, so every night, you
know, he'd get out of hishandcuffs, he'd scale up the
walls and he would loosen thevent a little bit every single
night.
So after doing this every nightfor several weeks, it was time
for Sherry Torrey to make hisescape.
(35:46):
He knew that the guards wouldbe able to hear him on the roof,
so he decided to wait for adark and stormy night, and when
the thunder was booming, he madehis escape through the air vent
and just like that he was goneagain.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Did they get him?
Did they catch him again?
Well, no.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
So this time he was able to evade the authorities
for months, but again hisfreedom was short-lived.
Shiratori went to the home ofkobayashi, a guard who had been
kind to him at akita prison.
Shiratori explained tokobayashi that he escaped from
prison not because he wasevading his life sentence, but
(36:26):
because of the prison guards andtheir torture.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
That's like potato, potato.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
I'm not escaping because I'm stuck in prison for
my life.
I'm escaping because they'remean to me there.
They're so mean.
It's the principle of the thing.
Soiratori asked kobayashi tohelp him make a case against the
prison system.
However, kobayashi didn't agreewith this and when shiratori
(36:56):
went to use the bathroom,kobayashi called the cops on him
.
So back to prison.
Shiratori went.
Now, if you're counting, thisis two times that he's been in
prison and he's escaped, right,so this is his third time going
to prison.
Okay, yes, yes.
So this is his third time goingback to prison, after escaping
(37:17):
two times, and by this point,shiratori was a bit of a legend
when it came to prison escapesand the authorities were like we
will never let him escape again.
So they decided this time tosend him to Abashiri prison,
which was notorious for beingthe worst of all prisons.
This is the prison where, likethe worst of the worst were sent
(37:38):
, nobody escaped from Abashiri.
Now, abashiri was Japan'snorthernmostmost prison.
There was a ton of snow there,freezing temperatures, and
prisoners were required to wearsuper thin uniforms, which
deterred them from trying toescape, because if you escape
with these tiny, these little,you know thin uniforms, you're
(38:01):
still gonna die out there.
Um, shiratori's ankles andwrists were placed in heavy
shackles that didn't have anykeyholes, and they required
handcuff specialists to removethem.
And talk about, I mean, happyteacher appreciation week.
Katie, did you know there areother careers out there, like
handcuff specialists?
Speaker 2 (38:23):
I missed that that day at high school, like when
the handcuff specialist came inand talked about all the cool
things you can do, the greatbenefits and, man, I wish I had
known right now in my life overhere?
Speaker 1 (38:38):
yeah, here I am in education and I could have been
a handcuff specialist anyway.
Uh he, shiratori, was put intoa cell with openings that were
too small to fit his body andthere were no loose air vents or
gaps in security like the otherprisons.
They learned their lessons thefirst few times, and yet
Shiratori was still determinedto escape, did is?
(39:09):
He took his miso soup and everyday he poured the miso soup
onto his shackles and onto thesteel frame of his cell.
Every day, and he did this forseveral months.
The salt in the soup eventuallycorroded the metals over time
and Shiratori was able to slipout of his shackles that's so
smart, right.
And he could also pry open thefeeding hatch on the cell door,
(39:29):
but that feeding hatch was toosmall to fit his body.
So shira tori figured out thathe could actually dislocate his
shoulders and slip through ohgosh and katie, just like a
grimm's brother sausageslithering through oatmeal.
Shiratori became the first andonly prisoner to ever escape
(39:58):
Abashiri prison.
Did they catch him?
Where'd?
he go, so this time he learnedhis lesson to not go to the home
of a guard.
Instead, he went into hiding.
For more than a year he livedin an abandoned mine and stayed
alive by eating wild rabbits andforaging for berries.
(40:19):
But and this is just sharetory's luck, katie in 1945 he
was confronted by a farmer whomistook him for a notorious
thief in the area.
The farmer attacked Shiratoriand a struggle ensued and the
farmer ended up getting stabbedand he died.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
More murder.
Speaker 1 (40:41):
More murder.
Shiratori was captured and puton trial and even though he
claimed it was in self-defense,this time he received the death
penalty.
Oh, now for the authorities.
Fourth time's a charm, katie.
They weren't gonna take anychances.
This time they sent him tosepororo prison, where six
(41:05):
guards watched him literally24-7.
This time the walls were very,very, very high and there was
only one opening in the cell andit was smaller than Shiratori's
head, so he couldn't squeezethrough it.
And still, one morning theguards opened the cell door and
shiratori was gone.
(41:26):
Where was he?
Where'd he go?
So this time, shiratori hadunscrewed the cell's floorboards
and dug a tunnel with a misobowl soup.
He only dug in that man's soupright it's like they say katie,
(41:47):
when life gives you a bowl ofmiso soup, you dig yourself a
tunnel.
And if they, if you cannot digyourself a tunnel, you pour it
in your shackles and you corrodethe metals where there's a miso
bowl soup.
There's a way.
There's a way, absolutely so.
He would take his miso bowlsoup and he would only dig at
(42:07):
night and he positioned the holeright under his bed so he could
easily cover it up and then tothrow the guards off even more,
it said that Shiratori wouldlook up a lot, which would make
the guards think that if he wasgoing to escape, he was thinking
about going up Exactly.
If he was going to escape, hewas thinking about going up
(42:30):
Exactly.
So Shiratori escaped and he wentinto hiding again for another
year until one day he wassitting on a bench and this time
a police officer who had noidea who he was, by the way came
over and sat next to him.
The officer offered Shiratori acigarette.
Now, cigarettes were considereda luxury in Japan at this time,
and it is said that Shiratoriwas so overcome by this police
(42:52):
officer's generosity that heconfessed his true identity to
the officer and was once againarrested and taken back to court
.
Can you imagine being thatofficer?
Speaker 2 (43:03):
I'm like oh yeah, you're like oh, I knew that.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
Okay, you want to go.
You want to go?
Oh, okay, all right, now youcan keep that cigarette, that's
fine, that's fine.
So, while in court, shiratoriexplained that he only escaped
because of the horrible wayprisoners were treated.
In other words, if they hadn'tbeen treated horribly, maybe he
(43:30):
would have stayed in prison.
Still be in prison.
Yeah, I guess um shira tori'sstory won the court over and
they declared that the farmer'sdeath was indeed self-defense
and they lifted his deathsentence.
He still had to serve time forescaping from prison four times.
This time they sentenced him tojust 20 years, but they allowed
(43:55):
him to request which prison hewanted to go to.
Shiratori picked Fuchu Prisonin Tokyo and he never tried to
escape.
I guess he liked it there andhe was released early on good
behavior, in 1961.
He lived for 18 more years infreedom and he passed away in
1979.
(44:16):
Now Katie Bananas.
Yeah, here's the connectionbetween our stories.
Yes, remember when I said wheredid Dorothy go?
Our stories?
Yes, remember when I said wheredid dorothy go?
Shira tori strikes me as justone of the most sweet, like I
(44:37):
mean smart, smart as all get out, but just sweet and honest and
like I'm just trying to do theright thing.
Do you think?
Maybe she bounced to him andthat's Dorothy?
Speaker 2 (44:53):
Because he was born in 1907 and it was 1904 when she
was born, and she was threewhen she fell down the stairs.
Do you see what I'm saying?
On the stairs, do you see whatI'm saying?
Maybe he contained the spiritof a feisty young,
three-year-old British girl.
Speaker 1 (45:12):
Yeah, who's just like ?
I just want people to listen tome.
I just want people to.
You know, don't be mad at mefor escaping, just you know,
hear my story yeah, hear mystory, just listen to me yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:24):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:26):
I think we solved that mystery.
Yeah, done, done and done soyeah, that's the story of yoshi
shiratori, the prison escapeartist magician, I guess.
Speaker 2 (45:38):
What I'm really struck by is at the very end.
It's like the cop gave him acigarette and he's like you know
what?
I should just go back to prison.
If you need one more reason notto smoke, kids, here it is.
There you go.
Speaker 1 (45:54):
Right, you'll just end up in prison again.
You'll just end up in prison.
I think he was a really goodperson to begin with.
I really think that he ended upwith a wrong crowd and this is
how just things went, and hejust I mean, I don't know why he
wouldn't just try to stay outof prison in the first place.
I'm gonna do my time.
And then he was like no, it'sthe principle of the thing.
(46:16):
If you're gonna treat usawfully, then I'm just not gonna
stay here.
Speaker 2 (46:19):
I cannot stand for this do you really think it was
that, or do you think he justwanted to get out?
Speaker 1 (46:24):
I, I, you know what I think honestly, I think it was
a combination.
I think I mean, he went to thisguard who was like you know how
bad it is, like you're gonnahelp me right, try to fix the
system.
I think it was probably that,and I think he's one of those
incredibly brilliant peoplewho's just always thinking if
you ever worked with kids, youknow there are kids who just get
(46:45):
themselves in the craziestsituations and you're like how
did you?
I literally turned my back fortwo minutes.
How did you get yourself intothis situation?
And I feel like that's who heis.
Right, he's somebody you'rejust like.
I mean I literally turned myback for two minutes and you dug
a hole under your bed with asoup bowl, just like, yeah, some
(47:06):
people just are like that.
Speaker 2 (47:09):
I think what gets me is the resiliency that you know
we're going to put you in thisunescapable room and we're going
to have six people watching youat all times, and yet he still
managed to pull that all off.
I hope those guards lost theirjobs, because how could he dig
with nobody and nobody, nobody,nobody noticed, nobody.
Yeah that's.
Speaker 1 (47:30):
Uh.
I think when they said that wewe watch him 24 7, they meant
they meant we take some time offat bedtime and go to sleep.
In the paperwork it said wewatch 24 7, but in real life and
they took a nap.
Speaker 2 (47:44):
Yeah, yeah, that was an awesome story, cindy.
I love it well.
Speaker 1 (47:49):
Thank you, katie, and I do you think we've earned
climbing out of our littlepangolin holes?
I think so with pride.
Speaker 2 (47:58):
With pride we can escape our little japanese
prison, self-imposed pangolindungeon our spirits floating
into those of now I have aquestion for you.
At any point when laney waslittle, did she hit her head?
Speaker 1 (48:19):
does this explain her obsession with you know, if I,
if my child accidentally hitsher head, so my biggest I'm a
big true crime fan, right?
So you know that my biggestfear is that my child hits their
head and turns into a serialkiller.
If my child hits her head andturns into an Egyptian, an
(48:44):
ancient Egyptian high priestess,I'm going to be thrilled, I'm
going to be.
If she's like mom, I have topack everything up and I have to
go do an internship at theBritish Museum and then move to
Egypt.
For the rest, of fine, as longas you're not going to get me on
an episode of Dateline, I'mfine, you're going to be the mom
, like, helping her pack.
(49:04):
You're like, let's go together,honey, if I'm going to pay for
these ancient Egyptianhieroglyphic lessons, then I
expect you to translate for me.
Speaker 2 (49:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:15):
You're such a good mom.
Thank you, Katie.
So are you.
Hi Katie, hi Cindy, are you ready to do this, I
suppose I suppose.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
You know, some people might say that when it comes to
recording we're inconsistent.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Oh yeah, Some people but.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
I say we're more like the elusive pangolin.
Do you know what a pangolin is?
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Isn't it like?
It's kind of like a mammal, butit's got scales.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
It is.
It's like an eater, it's like alittle armadillo-y thing.
Yeah, I think we're likepangolins, right.
We pop up our heads every oncein a while with a history story
and then we disappear.
And when we do appear, people'sreactions shouldn't be like, oh
, it's about time.
They should be excited, likewhen you see a pangolin in the
(01:02):
wild.
People pay a lot of money,katie, to go like on national
geographic expeditions to findpangolins and we don't charge
anything for this people getthis for free and you don't know
what's going on in thatpangolin's personal life like.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Maybe he's got some doctor's appointments that he's
got to go to, maybe his kids arebeing pains in the butts, you
don't know, and he's got to gomeet with the teacher and
discuss strategies forsocialization.
Yeah, exactly, don't judge him.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
We don't judge, we just celebrate that we're here
Exactly and people are gettingthis for free.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
I mean, I heard the most interesting podcast
statistic and I feel like weshould wear it as a as a badge
of pride.
It's something like 90 percentof podcasts don't make it past
10 episodes some really lownumber and then of that
remaining 10% like 90% don't getpast 20 episodes and like we're
(02:10):
way ahead of that.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
We're way ahead.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
So like we're like one percenters, Cindy, this is
very exciting.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Well, my next question is what percentage of
those that make it past thatactually make money, though I
think it's like, I feel, I feellike there's a little asterisk
next to that statistic andthey're like and if you are
recording over 100 episodes andyou don't make a dime, it's
probably your sign that youshould stop.
(02:38):
But we're not gonna stop, katie.
We're to keep popping our headsout when we are available.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
It's a delightful little surprise to our fans, all
five of them.
It's like oh, I thought theydied, but I guess they're still
around because they're stillmaking podcasts.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Good for them, good for them, good for them, good
for them, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
On that note, katie, we do havea podcast planned for today, we
do.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
What's our topic?
It is In Another Life.
So you came up with this topic.
I did yes, because I had astory kind of in mind and it's
history.
It happened in the past, um,that's for sure.
Um, but I want to try somethingjust like a little different.
(03:33):
So I'm very interested inseeing what your, your reaction
is gonna be, and I'm gonna kindof veil it in a little bit of
secrecy.
I feel like if I, if I tell toomuch or I get too much into it,
it's going to give too much away.
So I just want to ooh, it'sgoing to be interesting Lean
into the unknown.
Cindy.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Lean into the unknown .
So it's a history story, but wedon't know where it's going.
No, so it's kind of like in thefuture it could be.
Look at the layers, katie.
How are we not raking in themoney?
Speaker 2 (04:05):
with this.
There's no one paying for thesweet, sweet content I don't
know.
I okay, let me preface thiswith I feel like I had a really
strong start to it, um, andwe'll see how things go.
We'll see, um, and that's whatI'm gonna say and I won't reveal
(04:26):
, like, the title to the endbecause, again, I feel like it's
gonna give away too much.
I just wanna wait, wait.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
You have wait, hold on.
Yeah, there's a title to it.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
You titled your podcast story yeah, don't, we
don't, we don't we the title.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
You already told us the title.
Oh what?
Speaker 2 (04:45):
it's about.
Like the person who it's about,oh, oh.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Wait.
So you're going to tell me thestory and then tell me who it is
?
I'm so confused I've not beentracking.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Maybe we should go back down our pangolin hole.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
We're just drooping our little pangolin heads.
Where do they even live?
What do they?
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
They're not subterranean, I don't know,
maybe they live in trees.
We should go climb back up ourpangolin tree, go in our
pangolin nest or our pangolincomforter over our little
pangolin nest, go back to sleep,go back to sleep.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Go back to sleep.
Maybe people will be excited tosee us again next time.
Maybe We'll do better.
We'll do better.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
So the person that this is about, I can tell you
it'll run, it's going to be fine.
Her name is Dorothy LouiseEadie.
Bring any bells.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Not a single bell Excellent.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Excellent, all right.
So Dorothy Louise Edie was bornon a snowy day on the 16th of
January in 1904 in lovelyEngland.
She was her parents' only childand the apple of her mother's
eye.
She was described as being asweet and very precocious child.
She was really full of life andenergy.
(06:07):
But unfortunately, when she wasthree, she was playing next to
a stairwell and fell down aflight of stairs with her tiny
little body just falling headover foot against each little
step.
Until she came to a stop at thebase of the stairs, she wasn't
moving.
Her parents immediately rushedto her side to see how she was,
(06:31):
but she wasn't breathing, shewasn't moving.
They were really worried abouther and you have to remember,
this time there are noambulances, there's no
paramedics, so they had to callfor a doctor and just pray and
wait.
Once the doctor finally didarrive, he told them that their
precious baby girl was gone.
Her parents were absolutelydevastated.
(06:53):
Again, this is their only childand the doctor told them that
you know, I need to go, I needto get her death certificate,
but I'll come back, I'll bring anurse with me and we'll get her
all ready to be taken away andyou know, and we'll handle this.
So the doctor did come backabout an hour later and the
nurse goes upstairs to washDorothy's body and dress and
(07:15):
prepare her for burial, and thedoctor stays downstairs to
console her family.
And when the nurse getsupstairs and opens the door, she
sees Dorothy sitting upright inbed playing with a doll as if
nothing has happened.
What?
And she showed no signs ofhaving suffered any injury
(07:35):
whatsoever.
What?
Yes.
However, not long afterDorothy's seemingly miraculous
recovery, her parents started tonotice that things were just a
little bit different.
So she started to have thesereally horrible nightmares where
(07:57):
she would just be like lost inthis giant room and there were
just these huge columns, andlike her mom would wake her up
in the middle of the night andshe would just burst into tears
and just say I just want to gohome, I just want to go home.
And her parents would insist,like you are home, you're fine.
And she, she just no, I'm not,I need to go home.
(08:17):
And when they would ask herokay, so where is home she?
She couldn't explain to themwhere it was, but she just was
so insistent, like I need to gohome, you need to let me go home
, you have to help me.
But Dorothy's difficultiesextended beyond just home.
So, like one Sunday morning,her parents were asked to like
come and pick her up early fromSunday school.
And when they met with theteacher they were told you
(08:39):
cannot bring her back to Sundayschool.
And when they asked why, theteacher said well, dorothy keeps
getting into arguments with meabout what I'm trying to teach
and she keeps referring toChristianity as a heathen
religion and she doesn't wantany part of it.
She can't come back what.
They're totally confused bythis, but they agreed.
(09:02):
Another thing that they noticedthat was like a little bit
different about their baby girlwas that, you know, even though
she was born and raised inLondon, she started to speak
with a very strange accent, likeshe didn't sound like she was
British, it was just like herpronunciation just sounded
really off all of a sudden.
And you know they weren't tooworried about things.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Okay and you know they weren't too worried about
about things okay.
I would love to meet thiscouple and see how just calm and
chill they are.
If my child started to speak ina british accent, maybe for the
first day or two, but that'sadorable.
She's been watching a lot ofpeppa pig and then after day two
, I'd be concerned.
I imagine this is before PeppaPig and they're also British too
, so she wouldn't copy.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
I imagine they were probably just like relieved that
she was alive and like, okay,she's got a funny accent, but at
least she's alive, she's notdead, whatever, it's gonna be
okay.
So you know, things just kindof carried on and you know they,
they thought that getting herout and taking her to different
places might kind of distracther.
(10:12):
Um, and and one day theydecided, you know, let's take
her to a place that everyfour-year-old loves, let's take
her to the british museum and,by all accounts, are these
four-year-olds?
Speaker 1 (10:23):
are they?
Are they us, katie?
Are they you and me?
Speaker 2 (10:27):
that would be four-year-old that would be and,
by all accounts, when they tookher to the british museum, she
absolutely hated it, everysingle minute of it as a typical
four-year-old would you knowdragging them.
I mean unless, again, unlessit's you or me.
But you know theyfour-year-olds.
They find they are not excitedby mesoamerican pottery or
(10:50):
japanese woodblock prints, likewhatever they don't.
She was not interested untilthe family turned a corner and
her eyes grew wide.
Her mouth gaped open and shewhispered this is my home.
She ran around this room.
(11:11):
She was kissing the feets ofstatues, she was pointing at
dioramas of temple complexes andsaying that's where the gardens
are supposed to be.
The fountain should be overhere.
She came to this giantsarcophagus and she told her
mother these are my people, I amhome.
Her parents had taken her tothe ancient Egyptian.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
She's an ancient Egyptian.
Come back as a four-year-oldBritish girl.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
And from that day, after any chance that she got to
go back to the British Museumand go back and see the
artifacts she would.
She practically lived at theBritish Museum, so much so that
the head of the Egyptianantiquities at the time, ea
Wallace Budge, kind of took herunder his wing and encouraged
her to learn hieroglyphics andkind of helped her out in her
(12:02):
studies.
But she didn't knowhieroglyphics already.
I know it's a little difficult,but I mean she's also four,
she's also four, so like shedoesn't know how to write.
I mean, she was older than thisonce he got to her.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
I know You're not quite through the story yet, but
I'm just like.
I'm calling your bluff ladyLike little girl and girl, and
apparently so.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
When she was six she saw a picture of the ruins of
the temple of Abayos and she wasable to like, positively
identify the temple, like that'sthat's where I lived, that's
that's when I have been havingthis dream, that's that's the
temple.
And she also pointed to apicture of a mummy.
Um, in that same like newsclipping or magazine article,
(12:44):
and she named it.
She said, like, oh, that's he'smy friend, I know him.
That mummy turned out to be themummy of Seti the first, who
was the Pharaoh and ruler ofEgypt around 1300 BCE.
And like she, she in detaildescribed like what his
personality was like, who he was, like his son Ramses the second
(13:04):
, who is indeed his son.
In real life, she woulddescribe him as oh, he's a very
vivacious young man, he's verysweet, he's very kind, he could
be a little raucous, but he'svery nice.
And just how could asix-year-old know those things,
mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
And into her teenage years shewould continue to have these
(13:26):
very vivid dreams about thetemple and what her life was
like there, and over time shewas kind of able to piece these
dreams together and to revealher past life, and so apparently
she was the daughter of asoldier who, following the death
of her mother when she wasthree years old, he couldn't
afford to keep her, so heoffered her up to the temple of
(13:49):
Qol el-Sultan, which is like atemple to the goddess Isis, and
offered her to be like apriestess in training, and she
eventually became like aconsecrated virgin.
Her name was Ben and I'mprobably butchering this, but
Ben Thristrit and as a highpriestess of Isis, she
(14:09):
eventually became acquaintedwith the pharaoh, seti I, and
over time the two became lovers,which is strictly verboten.
She eventually became pregnantand, rather than bring shame to
the pharaoh and an eventualtrial which would ultimately
lead to her execution, shekilled herself and her love of
(14:32):
Egypt.
It never dissipated.
It never went away.
In 1931, she moved to Egypt withher boyfriend.
At the time, his name was ImamAbul Meghoud.
He became a teacher of Englishin Egypt and they married once
they got there.
According to her report,because we do have records and
(14:55):
interviews with her as soon asshe reached Egypt she fell on
the ground and kissed it andsaid I'm home, I'm finally home.
They lived in Cairo for a while.
She eventually had a son whoshe named Seti, go there After
her original boyfriend and shejust became completely ingrained
(15:16):
in egyptian culture because forher, this was home, this is
where she was supposed to be um.
Eventually, she and her husbandseparated.
He moved to iraq, but shestayed in egypt with her son and
she met with you know otherfamous egyptologists and she
became um.
She worked as like a translatorfor them and she worked.
You know other famousEgyptologists and she became um.
(15:37):
She worked as like a translatorfor them and she worked.
As you know, the term is ashovel bum, so it's individuals
who work for archaeologists andtheir archaeologists themselves
dig up, help to dig up remains.
What not like?
Not human remains they can behuman remains but, like um,
excavate different sites andthat that sort of.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Thing.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
And she worked on a number of different research
projects and was very wellregarded in her own right, even
though she didn't have this kindof like traditional training as
an archaeologist.
But she would maintain thisclaim that, no, I am ancient
Egyptian.
I know this, I know that andyou know people did try and test
(16:20):
her.
In fact hold on, I'm movingfrom my notes, I'm sorry I have
to edit this out and she stayedin Cairo for quite some time,
but eventually she did move toAbydos where again, she felt
like that was her home, whereshe'd always been, and she set
up a home there with her son andshe was referred to as Om Seti
(16:41):
by the locals.
So Om means like mother, andSeti is the name of her son.
And it's customary in Egyptianvillages that you refer to a
mother by the name of theireldest child and she's
henceforth, you know, from thefifties onward.
That's how she referred toherself and how others referred
to her.
So she dropped the name Dorothybecause it truly wasn't who she
(17:04):
was, um.
And after she set up her homethere, um, she did have a um.
She had an archeologist whokind of like challenged her
claim that she was who she saidwho she said she was.
So when she did make a trip tothe temple of Seti, the chief
inspector there from theantiquities department asked her
(17:28):
some questions about okay, youknow, what is that painting over
there?
That's completely obscuredwhat's on there?
And she was able to say, oh,this is what it looks like, and
there was no way that she couldhave known what was on there and
the information, like thepapers, about what was featured
on the wall hadn't been releasedyet and it was obscured, so
(17:52):
there was absolutely no way thatshe could have known unless she
had somehow had some priorknowledge.
Um, she, there are otheraccounts of you know, apparently
she asked them to tell otherarchaeologists asked her to,
like, map out where certaingardens were or where, like, the
footprint of a temple was, andshe would mark it out perfectly.
And when they excavated it, itturns out, all of her dimensions
(18:13):
were correct and, and I mean,she lived out the rest of her
existence in Egypt, um, at thetemple of um Abydos, um, and
there's, if you go on YouTube,you can see a video interview of
her, of her from the sixties,talking about, you know, her
accident as a child and comingto Egypt and and you know it's
(18:35):
toned down a little bit Like shedoesn't talk about how like
said he was her lover.
She just kind of.
Oh, yes, I knew him, and he wasvery nice and very kind and she
became a bit of like a localoddity and tour groups would
come and visit her and cruiseships would stop by, like people
from cruise ships would stop byto speak with her and kind of
get a little bit of a little bitof her, her story.
(18:57):
But also she was very, veryentrenched in egyptian culture,
um, ancient egyptian culture inparticular.
But until the day she died shemaintained yes, I am this, I am
who I say I am.
And in the interview sheactually talks about how some
people think maybe the fall, itknocked a screw loose, and then
(19:21):
other people believe that maybeI did die and my soul left and
it was re-inhabited by anintrusion spirit.
And when the interviewer says,well, what do you believe?
And she kind of smirks andshe's like the second one, she
really truly did believe thatshe had the soul of a
(19:44):
reincarnation of an ancientEgyptian priestess.
That's the story of Um Sedi.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
You're going to end on that note.
Nope, I'm not going to let youend, katie.
I have so many questions, notquestions for you per se, but
just questions in general.
Okay, so, okay.
So, based on the story, thatthe way you told it, it sounded
kind of like she was somebodywho this om om seti person was
(20:11):
growing along with her, yes,like she was inhabited by a
three-year-old Egyptian girl,and then that person continued
to grow, or it was a differentlevel of sophistication.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
No, I think it was a different level of
sophistication.
I think it's that the womanthat priestess like in her fully
adult form somehow got intothis three-year-old's body.
Okay, and over time, the truestory of what happened was
revealed to her through herdreams.
Over time, cause I I think it'sa lot for a three-year-old to
(20:49):
kind of handle, like oh, by theway, you were the lover of this
Pharaoh, and then you offedyourself when you found out that
you were pregnant by accident.
So that that's my interpretation.
Now I'm gonna, I'm gonna turn,turn the turn the tables on you
a little bit, do you think?
What do you think?
Do you think this is real?
(21:09):
Do you think it's just a headinjury?
The tbi, what?
What do you think?
Speaker 1 (21:13):
what do you think?
So what I think is I think thislittle girl fell down the
stairs.
It knocked her soul out.
This high Egyptian priestesscame in, took over her body,
which means that a four or threeyear old soul went and
inhabited an Egyptian woman, anancient Egyptian woman, and for
(21:35):
a long time, people in anancient Egyptian woman and, for
a long time, people in thatancient Egyptian community were
very confused.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Like why is she speaking?
Why is she speaking thislanguage?
We don't understand.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
That's the thing, right.
Can you imagine, then, athree-year-old running around
speaking British?
Speaker 2 (21:56):
English and we're speaking ancient Egyptian with a
British English accent, with aBritish, my, my take, my hot
take, I don't.
So I go back and forth because,like she, she fell down the
stairs and was like clinicallydead, right or otherwise.
(22:17):
It was a really awful doctor, Iguess.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
That's true.
We haven't explored this doctoryet, right?
Who was like she's absolutelydead.
We need to go prepare her bodyTotally dead 100%.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
And then comes back an hour later and she's sitting
up like nothing happened, butshe's ready to watch Bluey.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
Because it takes a while for souls to transfer
across it's complicated.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
It's like a dial-up, like you gotta leave it on
overnight for it to download myhot take is.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
I think it was just.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
I want to 100% believe that it was just a brain
injury and it created thiswhole world in her little brain
Because the parent believingthat she's spoken a different
with a funny accent, likeforeign accent syndrome, is a
real thing.
That happens after some peopleget brain injuries, where you
sound like you have an accentbut you don't actually have an
(23:17):
accent.
It's just the way that you'reperceived by others based on on
like your speech sounds.
But what I have such a hardtime rationalizing is like she
was four and completelyinsistent that she was ancient
Egyptian, which, when I'massuming like she hasn't been
exposed to really ancientEgyptian culture, like she
(23:39):
doesn't really have anunderstanding of it.
Yeah, as I'm assuming, mostVictorian children did not
really get out to the BritishMuseum.
Much didn't really like.
How could she recognize it orso passionately be like no, that
is it, that's, that's my life.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
So I definitely think it's weird how this three,
four-year-old suddenly had astrong interest, and and not
even just interest, but she wasjust drawn to the ancient
Egyptian culture and knew somuch about it already.
But then when she gets older,okay, it is weird that she kind
(24:15):
of can predict where perimetersof things are, what's on
paintings.
But at the same time too, I'mlike, is it the kind of thing
where maybe she just did a lotof research and not
intentionally?
I don't think she's trying tonecessarily mislead people on
purpose, but maybe once you'veread a few books about how
(24:35):
ancient Egyptian gardens weretypically constructed, you can
kind of guesstimate.
You know, okay, this is how bigit's going to be, most likely,
this is kind of where thesepieces are going to be.
Does that make sense?
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Yeah, if you know what traditional motifs look
like in art, you can kind ofpredict and I can see that as a
fan of the Roman Empire Likethere will be eagles, there will
be figs, there will be, I seethere will be a person with hair
(25:08):
down to here about here wearinga linen cloth and there's
probably like an owl, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Like, oh my gosh, she knows Also.
This is what I say.
I call her bluff because shedidn't know hieroglyphics.
She had to be taught and atfirst I'm like, okay, if she's a
three-year-old Egyptian child,I get it.
She hasn't been taught.
If she's supposed to be this,you know, older woman, a high
priestess is that what you said?
(25:40):
Perhaps like a high priestess,you're telling me she had to be
taught by a british gentleman inthe british museum and do
hieroglyphics?
Speaker 2 (25:50):
like no, that's where I draw the line.
You're true that you make avery good point like and why
can't you just rattle off theancient egyptian as well?
Like, even if you couldn'twrite it?
Speaker 1 (26:02):
you can write the hieroglyphics just right, you
know what's going to be in thepaintings.
Yeah, you know about your lover.
You, oh, you hung out withramses the second and he's
vivacious, but you can't readthe hieroglyphics.
I that being said, I do thinkthis is katie and this is what
I've always said.
(26:22):
This is what I've always said.
You know, we're all onetraumatic brain injury away from
being history fans.
This is why we all should likeand subscribe this podcast.
True, yeah, it's probably trueif it happened to dorothy, but I
do love the idea that theyswitched bodies.
(26:42):
It's like where, where didDorothy go?
Where did she go.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
I like to think she didn't actually leave, she just
like made space, oh true.
And then the priestess came inand then Dorothy came back and
they're like oh wow, I guesswe're roommates now.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Move over, little girl.
Did I tell you about our lover?
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Buckle up, sweetie, you're going to learn some hymns
to Osiris tonight.
I just want to watch Bluey.
I just want to watch Bluey.
No, aww, no, we're going toread Bluey.
No, aww, no, we're going toread the ancient Egyptian book
of the dead.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Where is she buried?
Do we know?
Oh?
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Egypt.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Did she have?
Where was she, did she?
Speaker 2 (27:37):
She did not get turned into a mummy.
She did not.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
That's where I was going with that.
I'm wondering if she was likeyou know what I'm, if she was
like you know what I need?
I'm an.
I'm an ancient egyptian,ancient egyptian high priestess.
I deserve my own tomb, Ideserve my own sarcophagus, and
you better mummify me the bestwe can do is this urn from home
(28:01):
goods for pottery barn my kidsbetter spring for the Pottery
Barn one.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
It's got to be fancy.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
So the topic you came up with was In Another Life,
which I totally see theconnection to your story.
For somebody who did not havethat story already in mind, it
was a little tricky to figureout something.
But I'll say that I came upwith my story idea.
It didn't come to me from areading.
It didn't come to me from, youknow, reading a history book or
(28:33):
something.
It actually came to me in song.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
What's which song.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
In another life I would make you stay, stay.
Do you know this song familiar?
Speaker 2 (28:51):
hum, a few more bars.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Cindy, I'm almost there so I don't have to say you
were the one that got away.
I'm so proud of you, I'm soproud of myself, thank, thank
you, katie.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
I think I much prefer the Cindy cover, to be honest.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
My debut album is set to come out in, but yeah, I it
made me think of a Katy Perrysong, and specifically the one
that got away.
Uh, the one that got away.
(29:36):
So my story is the story ofyoshi shiratori, aka the prison
break magician.
So this is, I'm taking yourstory, katie, and I am just like
giving you the completeopposite version of this.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
I love it.
I love Like.
This is why we come up, we pickrandom topics, because it's
like okay, see how you can makeit fit.
I don't care how much you haveto try and shoehorn things to
fit into.
Like, just do it, just go forit, be as creative as you can.
And I love it.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
In my case I'm as random as possible, but I
actually think there could be aslight connection between our
stories.
Well, really, we'll discussthis.
We'll discuss this.
So Shiratori was born in Japanin 1907.
Over the years, he held avariety of jobs, including being
a fisherman and working in atofu shop, but eventually he
(30:26):
fell in with a bad crowd, likelike it happens sometimes, and
he took up gambling and stealing.
In 1936, shiratori was arrestedfor robbery and murder.
Shiratori claimed he had beenfalsely accused of murder, but
nonetheless, a jury found himguilty and he was sent to aomori
prison.
(30:46):
Now, the condition of Japaneseprisons at this time wasn't.
It wasn't great.
Uh, there were not the best,not the best of times.
Uh, the living conditions werehorrendous.
There was a lot of torture, alot of abuse, and same at this
(31:08):
Aomori prison.
Like the other prisoners atAomori, shiratori was tortured
by guards and when he could nolonger handle this abuse, he
decided to plan his escape.
He began by memorizing theguards' schedule.
As he observed the guards, henoticed there were some gaps in
the security and he discoveredthat there was a 15-minute
(31:29):
window during which he couldescape.
Shiratori then used a piece ofwire he had taken from a bucket
in the bathhouse and he pickedthe lock on his cell.
He also pulled up pieces of hisfloorboard and hid them in his
bed so as to buy him some moretime to escape without being
detected.
Because when the guards came byto do their night check,
(31:51):
they're like oh yeah, that's notjust a bunch of floorboards in
that bed, that's a human being,that's not a pile of lumber,
that's a human.
His plan, katie, it went offwithout a hitch and the guards
had no idea he was gone for likehours, had no idea he was gone
for like hours.
But sadly for shiratori, threedays later he was captured by
(32:11):
the authorities and he was sentback to prison, but this time he
was given a life sentence.
So not only was he going backto prison, but he was going back
to prison for life forever.
When world war ii started,shiratori was sent to akita
prison.
Akita prison was even harsherthan aomori.
At akita prison, prisoners wererequired to sleep on concrete
(32:34):
floors and do manual labor, andbecause shiratori had a
reputation as an escaper or, ifyou're in the school system, in
a loper, I like to call it aloping.
Uh, did you?
Speaker 2 (32:48):
ever use that phrase it's, it's.
It's so fun, though, like I'mgoing to a loop it's so fun.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
It just means I.
I ran away, but I'm in.
Loping sounds so joyful anyway.
Shiratori.
Because of his reputation rightas an escaper, Shiratori was
automatically locked in solitaryconfinement.
Now the thing about solitaryconfinement is that the cells
were designed to make escapebasically impossible.
(33:16):
The cell itself had high,smooth copper walls with only a
skylight at the very top.
On top of that, prisoners insolitary confinement were kept
handcuffed inside the cells evenwhen they were sleeping.
So good luck trying to escapesolitary confinement at this
prison.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
You know what, Cindy, though I'm sorry to interrupt,
but that sounds like my idealMother's Day sounds like my
ideal mother's day.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
I am in a room.
No, I can't get out.
Nobody can get in.
It's peace and quiet.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
No one's going to ask for me to open their fruit
snacks.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
I'm sorry, I'm handcuffed.
Literally I'm handcuffed.
My hands are tied.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
And then get mad at me when I open it the wrong way,
because I know that there's awrong way to open it.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
I didn't.
You know not all of theseprisons, but some of these
prisons that I'm mentioning.
They have been turned intomuseums in Japan and so I feel
like there is an opportunityhere to make some money.
You know how people will rentout rooms.
In English banners they couldhave a Mother's Day weekend
(34:40):
special.
Leave your family behind, cometo Akita Prison for a special
mother's day treat.
We will.
We promise to leave you alone.
Now, katie, you may not want toleave Akita Prison, but
(35:05):
Shiratori did.
So.
He wasn't flustered by thecopper walls and handcuffs.
At night he would practiceactually scaling the walls.
So I should mention, he'sreally good at getting out of
handcuffs, like that's a noproblem for him.
So he would get out of hishandcuffs every night and he
(35:25):
would actually practice scalingthese tall walls.
There was also an air vent atthe top, so every night, you
know, he'd get out of hishandcuffs, he'd scale up the
walls and he would loosen thevent a little bit every single
night.
So after doing this every nightfor several weeks, it was time
for Sherry Torrey to make hisescape.
(35:46):
He knew that the guards wouldbe able to hear him on the roof,
so he decided to wait for adark and stormy night, and when
the thunder was booming, he madehis escape through the air vent
and just like that he was goneagain.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Did they get him?
Did they catch him again?
Well, no.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
So this time he was able to evade the authorities
for months, but again hisfreedom was short-lived.
Shiratori went to the home ofkobayashi, a guard who had been
kind to him at akita prison.
Shiratori explained tokobayashi that he escaped from
prison not because he wasevading his life sentence, but
(36:26):
because of the prison guards andtheir torture.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
That's like potato, potato.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
I'm not escaping because I'm stuck in prison for
my life.
I'm escaping because they'remean to me there.
They're so mean.
It's the principle of the thing.
Soiratori asked kobayashi tohelp him make a case against the
prison system.
However, kobayashi didn't agreewith this and when shiratori
(36:56):
went to use the bathroom,kobayashi called the cops on him
.
So back to prison.
Shiratori went.
Now, if you're counting, thisis two times that he's been in
prison and he's escaped, right,so this is his third time going
to prison.
Okay, yes, yes.
So this is his third time goingback to prison, after escaping
(37:17):
two times, and by this point,shiratori was a bit of a legend
when it came to prison escapesand the authorities were like we
will never let him escape again.
So they decided this time tosend him to Abashiri prison,
which was notorious for beingthe worst of all prisons.
This is the prison where, likethe worst of the worst were sent
(37:38):
, nobody escaped from Abashiri.
Now, abashiri was Japan'snorthernmostmost prison.
There was a ton of snow there,freezing temperatures, and
prisoners were required to wearsuper thin uniforms, which
deterred them from trying toescape, because if you escape
with these tiny, these little,you know thin uniforms, you're
(38:01):
still gonna die out there.
Um, shiratori's ankles andwrists were placed in heavy
shackles that didn't have anykeyholes, and they required
handcuff specialists to removethem.
And talk about, I mean, happyteacher appreciation week.
Katie, did you know there areother careers out there, like
handcuff specialists?
Speaker 2 (38:23):
I missed that that day at high school, like when
the handcuff specialist came inand talked about all the cool
things you can do, the greatbenefits and, man, I wish I had
known right now in my life overhere?
Speaker 1 (38:38):
yeah, here I am in education and I could have been
a handcuff specialist anyway.
Uh he, shiratori, was put intoa cell with openings that were
too small to fit his body andthere were no loose air vents or
gaps in security like the otherprisons.
They learned their lessons thefirst few times, and yet
Shiratori was still determinedto escape, did is?
(39:09):
He took his miso soup and everyday he poured the miso soup
onto his shackles and onto thesteel frame of his cell.
Every day, and he did this forseveral months.
The salt in the soup eventuallycorroded the metals over time
and Shiratori was able to slipout of his shackles that's so
smart, right.
And he could also pry open thefeeding hatch on the cell door,
(39:29):
but that feeding hatch was toosmall to fit his body.
So shira tori figured out thathe could actually dislocate his
shoulders and slip through ohgosh and katie, just like a
grimm's brother sausageslithering through oatmeal.
Shiratori became the first andonly prisoner to ever escape
(39:58):
Abashiri prison.
Did they catch him?
Where'd?
he go, so this time he learnedhis lesson to not go to the home
of a guard.
Instead, he went into hiding.
For more than a year he livedin an abandoned mine and stayed
alive by eating wild rabbits andforaging for berries.
(40:19):
But and this is just sharetory's luck, katie in 1945 he
was confronted by a farmer whomistook him for a notorious
thief in the area.
The farmer attacked Shiratoriand a struggle ensued and the
farmer ended up getting stabbedand he died.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
More murder.
Speaker 1 (40:41):
More murder.
Shiratori was captured and puton trial and even though he
claimed it was in self-defense,this time he received the death
penalty.
Oh, now for the authorities.
Fourth time's a charm, katie.
They weren't gonna take anychances.
This time they sent him tosepororo prison, where six
(41:05):
guards watched him literally24-7.
This time the walls were very,very, very high and there was
only one opening in the cell andit was smaller than Shiratori's
head, so he couldn't squeezethrough it.
And still, one morning theguards opened the cell door and
shiratori was gone.
(41:26):
Where was he?
Where'd he go?
So this time, shiratori hadunscrewed the cell's floorboards
and dug a tunnel with a misobowl soup.
He only dug in that man's soupright it's like they say katie,
(41:47):
when life gives you a bowl ofmiso soup, you dig yourself a
tunnel.
And if they, if you cannot digyourself a tunnel, you pour it
in your shackles and you corrodethe metals where there's a miso
bowl soup.
There's a way.
There's a way, absolutely so.
He would take his miso bowlsoup and he would only dig at
(42:07):
night and he positioned the holeright under his bed so he could
easily cover it up and then tothrow the guards off even more,
it said that Shiratori wouldlook up a lot, which would make
the guards think that if he wasgoing to escape, he was thinking
about going up Exactly.
If he was going to escape, hewas thinking about going up
(42:30):
Exactly.
So Shiratori escaped and he wentinto hiding again for another
year until one day he wassitting on a bench and this time
a police officer who had noidea who he was, by the way came
over and sat next to him.
The officer offered Shiratori acigarette.
Now, cigarettes were considereda luxury in Japan at this time,
and it is said that Shiratoriwas so overcome by this police
(42:52):
officer's generosity that heconfessed his true identity to
the officer and was once againarrested and taken back to court
.
Can you imagine being thatofficer?
Speaker 2 (43:03):
I'm like oh yeah, you're like oh, I knew that.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
Okay, you want to go.
You want to go?
Oh, okay, all right, now youcan keep that cigarette, that's
fine, that's fine.
So, while in court, shiratoriexplained that he only escaped
because of the horrible wayprisoners were treated.
In other words, if they hadn'tbeen treated horribly, maybe he
(43:30):
would have stayed in prison.
Still be in prison.
Yeah, I guess um shira tori'sstory won the court over and
they declared that the farmer'sdeath was indeed self-defense
and they lifted his deathsentence.
He still had to serve time forescaping from prison four times.
This time they sentenced him tojust 20 years, but they allowed
(43:55):
him to request which prison hewanted to go to.
Shiratori picked Fuchu Prisonin Tokyo and he never tried to
escape.
I guess he liked it there andhe was released early on good
behavior, in 1961.
He lived for 18 more years infreedom and he passed away in
1979.
(44:16):
Now Katie Bananas.
Yeah, here's the connectionbetween our stories.
Yes, remember when I said wheredid Dorothy go?
Our stories?
Yes, remember when I said wheredid dorothy go?
Shira tori strikes me as justone of the most sweet, like I
(44:37):
mean smart, smart as all get out, but just sweet and honest and
like I'm just trying to do theright thing.
Do you think?
Maybe she bounced to him andthat's Dorothy?
Speaker 2 (44:53):
Because he was born in 1907 and it was 1904 when she
was born, and she was threewhen she fell down the stairs.
Do you see what I'm saying?
On the stairs, do you see whatI'm saying?
Maybe he contained the spiritof a feisty young,
three-year-old British girl.
Speaker 1 (45:12):
Yeah, who's just like ?
I just want people to listen tome.
I just want people to.
You know, don't be mad at mefor escaping, just you know,
hear my story yeah, hear mystory, just listen to me yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:24):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:26):
I think we solved that mystery.
Yeah, done, done and done soyeah, that's the story of yoshi
shiratori, the prison escapeartist magician, I guess.
Speaker 2 (45:38):
What I'm really struck by is at the very end.
It's like the cop gave him acigarette and he's like you know
what?
I should just go back to prison.
If you need one more reason notto smoke, kids, here it is.
There you go.
Speaker 1 (45:54):
Right, you'll just end up in prison again.
You'll just end up in prison.
I think he was a really goodperson to begin with.
I really think that he ended upwith a wrong crowd and this is
how just things went, and hejust I mean, I don't know why he
wouldn't just try to stay outof prison in the first place.
I'm gonna do my time.
And then he was like no, it'sthe principle of the thing.
(46:16):
If you're gonna treat usawfully, then I'm just not gonna
stay here.
Speaker 2 (46:19):
I cannot stand for this do you really think it was
that, or do you think he justwanted to get out?
Speaker 1 (46:24):
I, I, you know what I think honestly, I think it was
a combination.
I think I mean, he went to thisguard who was like you know how
bad it is, like you're gonnahelp me right, try to fix the
system.
I think it was probably that,and I think he's one of those
incredibly brilliant peoplewho's just always thinking if
you ever worked with kids, youknow there are kids who just get
(46:45):
themselves in the craziestsituations and you're like how
did you?
I literally turned my back fortwo minutes.
How did you get yourself intothis situation?
And I feel like that's who heis.
Right, he's somebody you'rejust like.
I mean I literally turned myback for two minutes and you dug
a hole under your bed with asoup bowl, just like, yeah, some
(47:06):
people just are like that.
Speaker 2 (47:09):
I think what gets me is the resiliency that you know
we're going to put you in thisunescapable room and we're going
to have six people watching youat all times, and yet he still
managed to pull that all off.
I hope those guards lost theirjobs, because how could he dig
with nobody and nobody, nobody,nobody noticed, nobody.
Yeah that's.
Speaker 1 (47:30):
Uh.
I think when they said that wewe watch him 24 7, they meant
they meant we take some time offat bedtime and go to sleep.
In the paperwork it said wewatch 24 7, but in real life and
they took a nap.
Speaker 2 (47:44):
Yeah, yeah, that was an awesome story, cindy.
I love it well.
Speaker 1 (47:49):
Thank you, katie, and I do you think we've earned
climbing out of our littlepangolin holes?
I think so with pride.
Speaker 2 (47:58):
With pride we can escape our little japanese
prison, self-imposed pangolindungeon our spirits floating
into those of now I have aquestion for you.
At any point when laney waslittle, did she hit her head?
Speaker 1 (48:19):
does this explain her obsession with you know, if I,
if my child accidentally hitsher head, so my biggest I'm a
big true crime fan, right?
So you know that my biggestfear is that my child hits their
head and turns into a serialkiller.
If my child hits her head andturns into an Egyptian, an
(48:44):
ancient Egyptian high priestess,I'm going to be thrilled, I'm
going to be.
If she's like mom, I have topack everything up and I have to
go do an internship at theBritish Museum and then move to
Egypt.
For the rest, of fine, as longas you're not going to get me on
an episode of Dateline, I'mfine, you're going to be the mom
, like, helping her pack.
(49:04):
You're like, let's go together,honey, if I'm going to pay for
these ancient Egyptianhieroglyphic lessons, then I
expect you to translate for me.
Speaker 2 (49:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:15):
You're such a good mom.
Thank you, Katie.
So are you.
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