How To Live Big, Bold, And Brave with Clint Hatton - 097 - Not Most People

Episode Transcript
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Bradley Roth (00:34):
Hey everyone.
Welcome back to another episodeof the Not Most People podcast.
This is the show for thoseallergic to mediocrity group
think and following the statusquo.
And this is your host, Bradley?
Or did I say that already?
I'll cut that out, but yeah, sobefore I get into it, a lot of
you guys maybe.
Maybe you've been with us for awhile, and I would just like to

(00:55):
remind you of my one ask, andthat is simply if I provide
value to you, that you provide alittle value in return just by
helping me grow the show.
And that can mean a lot ofdifferent things.
That could be sharing it with afriend or two that you know will
resonate or get value out of it.
That could be sharing it onsocial media, tagging me or not
most people.

(01:16):
That's always greatlyappreciated.
And then also leaving a ratingor review on Spotify, apple, or
wherever you're listening isgreatly appreciated.
That helps get the show in frontof people that otherwise would
not find it.
So all of those things, justtake a couple minutes.
They don't cost you anything.
And I'm gonna continue to keepthis show ad free and sponsor

(01:37):
free as long as I can for youguys, as long as you keep
helping me do that.
So that's all I really ask.
I put a lot of time, energy, andmoney into this show.
And so, if you could just dothat for me, if it's a great
episode.
That's greatly appreciated.
And if you don't like it, if youdidn't get value, don't share
it.
But that's that's just kind ofthe value exchange I asked for
with this show.

(01:57):
Uh, we also have a lot of coolstuff going on with Namo people
beyond the podcast.
So we have the Namo PeopleAlliance, that's our community
of like-minded people.
And coming up here, depending onwhen you're listening, we have
the Not Most People Summit.
So that's a big three day eventin Arizona that if you really
want to get, you know, into thenot most people mindset and

(02:19):
surround yourself with otheramazing people, definitely
something to check out.
I'll have the links to that andeverything else, not most people
down in the show notes.
That's it kind of forhousekeeping today.
We're gonna get right into it.
I have special guest Clint Hatin here with me today.
Clint, welcome to the show.

Clint Hatton (02:36):
Thank you, Bradley.
I'm stoked.
I'm totally stoked to be withyou.

Awesome.
Me too.
So I'm gonna give you guys aquick intro on Clint introducing
him to you.
He is a deliriously, happy,happily married man of 20 years
to his bride.
Emma, I, we just went over this.
Emma realists.
You did it.
You did it.
We, yeah, there we go.
And the proud father of threeboys.
He has been credited over a 17career, year career with

(03:03):
training thousands of people indeveloping the character, values
and mindsets of an elite leader.
Clint was awarded the 2017Distinguished Leadership Award
as a global influencer by IChange Nations, and his author
of the book, big, bold, brave,how to Live Courageously In a
Risky World, Clint has a trackrecord of creating energy,

(03:23):
delivering dynamic content, andgiving audiences the tools to
transform their livesimmediately and live big, bold,
and brave.
So a long little bit of alonger, uh, career track record
than me.
Probably a bit spoken to a lotmore people than me, so, cause
I'm older.
Yeah.
That's the only reason.
Hey, well that, that alwaysmakes for, you know, the best

(03:44):
guess when, you know, it'speople who are very, very
comfortable speaking anddelivering their message, and it
sounds like something thatyou've been doing for a long
time, but it's shifted a lot, Ithink, over time.
Yeah.
From kind of where you started,I believe you were a pastor for
a while.
That's, that's right.
Yeah.
I don't know if you technicallystill are, but I know you've
kind of, you know, had, had amajor, uh, you know, roadblock

(04:08):
or event in your life.
Yeah.
What was that in the last two orthree years?
Yeah,

just it's actually, I, I, I feel like it's
three, two, but I was figuringit out.
It's actually a little overthree and a half now.

Oh, wow.
Yeah.
So tell us a little bit aboutthat, I guess your life.
Free and post in a sense, ifthat makes sense.
Yeah, I'm sure.
Absolutely.
I know it's like something thatyou, it's now part of your
message and you share it all thetime.
I'm sure maybe it gets easier,maybe it doesn't, but, uh, if
you would, I'd, I'd appreciateyou kind of giving us the

(04:42):
highlights and the lowlights.
You bet.

Absolutely.
It's an honor to be on this showwith you.
You know, I really feel likewe're so aligned with the
mission and what not.
For sure.
People stand for.
You know, I just, I'm, I'mreally excited to be with you
today and You're welcome, by theway, for the, uh, tongue tires
that gave you kinda a tough onethere.
I tried to, as you know, wetalked before we got on camera,
I, I shortened my bio to make itless wordy, but you got the
deliriously happily, and thenyou got tamarillos.

(05:08):
So I threw you some challengesthere.

That's all good.
I enjoy those.
Makes me better.

That's right.
Yeah.
So, you know my story, uh, Ithink for me, the way I usually
like to frame it is I grew up inSouthern California.
I like to say sunny southernCalifornia cuz I was an athlete,
you know, we could play outdoorsall the time.
And that was back in the dayswhen literally you could be out
all hours.
That's all you did night.
Yeah.
As and, and nobody worried aboutanything, you know?

(05:36):
So, and we had a p we weremiddle class, maybe even a
little bit towards the lowermiddle class.
Uh, want for anything.
We actually had a pool, youknow, which was pretty cool, you
know, growing up there.
And so, you know, I really feltlike my early childhood.
Was, if there's such a thing,Bradley normal and you know
mm-hmm.

(05:56):
Really life was pretty good.
But then about 11 years old,that's when I think I suffered
my first real major gut punch inlife.
Which, you know, we're gonnatalk a lot about our stories
and, and just where, where wedecide to go with this
conversation.
But, you know, that's life.
We all face gut punches and so.
Mm-hmm.
But what happened was, myparents actually got married at

(06:17):
a very young age, and after mybrother was born, who's eight
years older than me, she, my momhad a partial hysterectomy.
So they actually thought, youknow, they'd never have kids
again talk to, told her, you,you can't get pregnant.
And lo and behold, eight yearslater, voila, here I come, you
know?
And so Uhhuh, I come on to thescene.
So the reason why I'm sayingthat is by the time I was 11,
they'd already been married over25 years.

(06:39):
Mm-hmm.
And my dad ended up deciding tohave an.
Which, you know, as anyone who'sexperienced that, and
unfortunately there's probably alot of people listening who have
been on one side or the other ofthat.
Right.
You know, it's, it's a prettydevastating blow.
And he ended up deciding to moveout and move in with his
girlfriend who had a son thatwas only a couple years older
than me, that was just, youknow, weird and awkward at the

(07:00):
least.
Mm-hmm.
But the immediate impact thathad was my mom, who I think I
said already, they were marriedat 1816.
You know, that's, that's all sheknew.
She didn't know anyone else.
And so she didn't respond verywell and started drinking pretty
heavily.
Um, ended up suffering fromsuicidal ideation.
So, you know, here I am, mybrother again was much older

(07:21):
than me, so he'd already movedout and lived several hundred
miles away.
And so it was just me and my momand.
She's trying to, you know, useme as a coping mechanism and
talk things through.
And of course I can't.
I'm 11.
And, uh, so anyway, she, shestarted, you know, trying to
commit suicide.
She tried a couple differenttimes with drinking and pills
unsuccessfully, and then reallygot ugly a couple of times with

(07:42):
one time in a speeding vehiclewith her being drunk and me
being in the passenger seat.
Wow.
And kind of, kind of just out ofher mind saying, I'm just gonna
end it, you know, for both ofus.
And we spun out on a littletwo-lane highway in Southern
California and just missed sometrees and just, you know, uh,
very fortunate that that didn'thappen.
And then another time with ahandgun that was also a very

(08:03):
close call where my dad and Ihad to kind of wrestle it away
from her.
And so, you know, had somepretty traumatic experiences at
that age.
And so went from feeling likelife is good to.
What the hell, you know?
Yeah.
And, but what it did, Bradley,and, and I'll fast forward, so
cuz we don't need to, you know,go into the weeds with this
story, but th this whole sceneand some of the stuff I went

(08:25):
through during that time lastedabout two years.
My dad did eventually end upmoving back in, um, they
actually ended up being marriedfor over 65 years.
And both of them passed away intheir eighties, about eight
years ago.
We had a, a really greatrelationship in my later adult
years and mm-hmm.
So that was, that was all good.
But what happened, uh, comingout of that season at 11 or 12

(08:48):
is I started being prettyindependent.
You could probably interject theword rebellious, use that
instead, you know?
Yep.
And I think looking back, wenever really had this part of
the conversation, but I thinklooking back, they just didn't
do much about anything becausethey probably just carried a lot
of guilt and shame through whatthey put me through, you know?
So I started abusing drugs andalcohol, 12 years old, 12, 13

(09:11):
years old.
Wow.
And really the only thing Ibelieve that kept me, um, semi
on track, cuz obviously that'sa, a really poor coping
mechanism, was the fact that Iwas an athlete.
And at least in the stages, I,you know, played at and the
things that I did, I was prettysuccessful.
So it kept me from goingcompletely into the dark and

(09:32):
completely off the edge.
But, you know, time would go onand eventually that was no
longer available to me.
You know, I won't bore peoplewith my lane career, but you
know, I ended up suffering.
Catastrophic knee injury.
My senior year of baseball, whenwe were one of the top rated
teams in California, I was thestarting shortstop returning to
all star.
That was devastating.

(09:53):
Then a couple years later, Istarted playing junior college
football with the hopes of usingthat to go on and play at a, a
bigger school and finish myeducation.
And second year blew out my kneeagain, only this time even
worse.
And mm-hmm So sports was atleast competitive.
Sports was outta the picture.
So I'd love to tell you that Ihad more drive than just that,
but I didn't.

(10:14):
And so what happened was, at 21years old, I actually got into
the car business cuz I had somefriends that made some pretty
good money doing it.
And I knew I needed to dosomething and, and I just didn't
have a drive for, you know,education anymore.
And so what ended up happeningthrough that is I was introduced
to even harder drugs and Iactually had about a nine year
stretch, even though, you know,I, I was a professional

(10:35):
salesperson, you know, I paid myown bills, I took care of
myself.
I wasn't a, uh, a leech toanybody.
Right.
But I, I abused meth for nineyears during that period of
time.
Mm-hmm.
Um, I mean, I remember days of,we, we would have these long
weekends that we would get offonce a month in the car
business.
And I would literally, I don'teven know how many times not go

(10:57):
to sleep from Thursday nightuntil Sunday night.
That's how, how much, you know,meth we would do, and just the
crazy lifestyle, you know?
Mm-hmm.
And so ultimately where that ledme is about 30 years old.
I was in a marriage that wasjust as you can imagine, right.
I've given you no proof that Ihad any business being a

(11:17):
husband.
Right.

Not at that point.

Yeah.
There's no evidence.
Right.
I love to help people even froma young age, but, but clearly,
you know, I had a lot of thingsgoing on and, and just mm-hmm.
Emotional baggage and things Ididn't know how to deal with.
So ultimately in this marriage,we ended up doing meth.
This one last time I was 30years old and.
During that time, I think it'simportant to point out, cause I
think, you know, when you, whenyou get to what I'm about to

(11:42):
tell you, cuz most people arepretty shocked, there were other
things going on besides justthis one decision.
I, I'd gotten involved in anetwork marketing company that
was in the nutritional business.
So I was taking a little bitbetter care of my body.
Um, I was involved with mentorsnow who are speaking, you know,
life into me and, and trainingme life principles that I'd
never really heard before andmm-hmm really helping me feel

(12:05):
like I could actually besomebody that I didn't have to
be a victim to my past and, andespecially my own, you know,
shooting myself in the legs somany times, which is poor
decisions.
So all this stuff is going on,but we woke up that next morning
after doing meth for what endedup being the last time, and, and
I was just done, dude.
It was just, I, I literally wokeup, not that you've ever felt

(12:26):
good coming off of meth, but it,it wasn't just that I didn't
feel good in my body.
In my mind, my mindset for thefirst time was, I'm sick and
tired of this being part of myidentity.
I'm sick and tired of this kindof a lifestyle.
And even the risks that I wastaking, you know, being in
environments where I could havebeen arrested at any time, you

(12:49):
know, trying to get the drugsand things like that.
And I made a decision that dayI, today I called them
courageous decisions, but backthen I just, I just told myself
I'm done.
And I quit cold.
And never, you know, neverpicked it up again.
Which it's been probably 25, 30years ago now, um, or close to
30 years ago.
So that didn't change mymarriage though.

(13:12):
It wasn't enough.
Um-huh.
And, and about a year later, youknow, I ended up, I'm a man, I'm
a man of faith.
I was, you know, I did end upbecoming a pastor for 17 years
up until just this last year,which we'll get into later.
But, um, when, when thathappened, my ex-wife just wanted
nothing to do with it.
She ended up filing for divorce.
We went our own separate ways,and I was kind of free, but that

(13:33):
was, that was really the early,you know, first three decades of
my life.
And it was, wasn't until really30, 31 years old that I really
started to get on track ofbecoming the person I wanted to
be.
Mm-hmm.

Wow.
I mean, part parts of thatstory, I can resonate with parts
of it.
I definitely can't, you know,um, kind of going through that
stuff at a young age.
Yeah.
It's a lot to unpack.
Fortunately, you eventually gotto that point where you started
to, and you started to do thatwork.
But I think that the majority ofpeople that go through that,
they never kind of get out ofthat.
They never have that, that day.

(14:08):
Like you talked about, you wakeup and you're like, I'm done
with this.
Right.
Or Yeah.
I think anyone who's kind ofturned things around seems to
have that, like that onedistinct turning point that they
can look at.
And, uh, one of my favoriteauthors, MJ DeMarco coins it as
like a f t e Oh, fuck, thisevent.
Where, yeah.
Okay.
Eventually, eventually, like,you've had enough and like,

(14:31):
that's it.
Like you're, you're changing andyou make the change.
And so, um, you know, peopleeither go through, like, they,
they build a tolerance to painwhere they just never, never
have that, or they don'texperience enough pain.
Like I, we were just kind oflike in the middle, you know,

(14:51):
like they're just comfortableenough that they'll never get to
that point to create.
A lot of change.
And it could be a hard thingbecause, you know, I ask a lot
of people about that andthey'll, most of the time
there's outside circumstancesthat lead to that, right?
Like you, it was kind of thingsgrowing up.
Like, you're 11 years old, whatare you gonna do?
Right?
Or people have near deathexperience, but you can't just

(15:13):
like go out and be like, youknow what?
I'm gonna like go have a neardeath experience or go, uh, you
know, and go jump into like a, afamily with a lot of issues, you
know, whatever it might be.
Um, so it's always interestingto kind of pinpoint those, those
turning points.
And, um, and I can relate towith the athlete part, you know,

(15:33):
growing up, Hmm.
That was my whole identity,right?
That's all I knew.
Um, and I think whether it'ssports, like that's an obvious
example, especially people whogo on, you know, like for me and
you, it was only high level,high school, a little bit of
maybe college athletics.
But think about the people who,like, that's their, their career

(15:53):
and then that's taken away.
Right?
And so like, that's a parallelto a lot of other things.
People who tie their wholeidentity to one thing.
Yeah.
And then it gets taken away.
It's gone.
And you got, and you're kind oflike, man, what do I do?
I gotta reinvent myself.
I'm guessing that probably ledyou further down the path of,
you know, the drugs and alcoholas, you know, further coping

(16:16):
mechanisms and that kind ofthing.
Yeah.
Um, so I think there's a lot inthat story that people, you
know, even if they didn't gothrough, that can relate with
Right.
Lots of parallels, kind of thisjourney.
And, um, yeah.
So like, I'm curious, cuz yousaid like you're going through
this, you're, you're in thismarriage, you're spending, you

(16:37):
know, your Thursdays throughSundays, um, you know,

once a month, only once a month is, is that It's

good, right?
Yeah.
I, I've never, I don't know,I've never heard the term like a
high functioning meth addict,but it sounds like, it sounds
like that's almost where youwere at.
Um,

yeah, that's what I thought.
You know, that's definitely whatI thought.
You know, if I, if I were ableto somehow go back in time and
visit my old self, I'm not surethat was factual,

but anyway.
Right.
Yeah.
I mean, that sounds better thanit probably was, but the fact
that you were able to kind ofkeep this semi successsful
career for that long while doingthat is, is kind of crazy.
Right.
And then, yeah.
Um, you said during that timeyou kind of got into, like, you,
you had mentors and people whowere speaking life into you and
you Yeah.
Like were you still, like yousaid you were always into your

(17:27):
faith.
Were you still like going tochurch and stuff during that
time period?
Or was it something that youkind of came back to?

Yeah, it actually, the, the church, um, in, in my
faith, I mean, I'll say it thisway.
I, I, I still to this day, I hada short experience when I was 19
where I prayed a prayer, went tochurch for two and a half
months, and then when I moved toNorthern California from LA,
walked away completely for, youknow, 12, 15 years or whatever.

(17:56):
So, um, so I, I do not considermyself a church kid at all.
That was a very brief encounterand, and, uh, gotcha.
Part of my life.
But, you know, the, thementoring through this company,
which did end up being.
Run by a bunch of Christians.
I didn't choose it for thatreason.
I had no idea until I wasinvolved in it.
Mm-hmm.

(18:16):
And I'm not even saying it's,they were great because they
were Christians necessarily, cuzthere's lots of people of
different faith that are notgreat people.
Right.
But, but I was just veryfortunate that these were people
that really cared about peoplethat poured into me.
And so I was learning thesesuccess principles or live
principles, whatever you wannacall it.
Mm-hmm.
But then just through O

osmosis kind of.

Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
And some one-on-ones.
And you know what I mean?
They spent time with me and,which I think, you know, you and
I probably.
Coach people on that all thetime, that you need strong
people in your life, you know?
Yeah.
And so that was going on, but,you know, one of them, my, my
upline, which people aren'tinvolved in network marketing
probably.
What are you talking about?
But that's basically the personwho, uh, I, I worked the most
with because I was in theirline.

(18:58):
They brought you in essentially.
Yeah, exactly.
Um, was very successful andhappened to be a believer.
And so she invited me to go tochurch many times.
And so ultimately at 31, Iaccepted an invitation.
And the funny thing was, for me,it wasn't, it wasn't to find God
or faith or anything.
I, I literally knew one thingthat they also had gut punches

(19:19):
in life.
You know, I mean, I've spent alot of time with'em, so I knew
things weren't always perfect,but I also recognize that they
respond a little differentlythan I did, and they always seem
to have, I used the word peacenow, I didn't have the language
for it back then, but mm-hmm.
They always seem to have thispeace or calm in, in tougher
circumstances, and I didn't, youknow, I could go, I could go on
a spiral.

(19:39):
So finally one day I, I acceptedan invitation to go to church,
just trying to figure out, okay,maybe this is part, and for me,
that's what ended up happening.
You know, I ended up decidingto, uh, give my life to God,
and, and so ultimately over thecourse of that next year, I
really began to feel a pull thatI was supposed to be in

(20:00):
ministry.
Obviously you guys already knowthat I was a pastor for 17
years, so that did happen.
Mm-hmm.
But that was the catalyst for myex-wife who wanted nothing to do
with that, to sign papers andjust say, no, you can go your
way.
I'll go mine.
And, and that's, that'sultimately how that all came
about.
But that was, you know, 31 yearsold man before the shift began

(20:20):
to take.
Then I ended up moving to Dallasfrom there and that's when life
began to take off.
Hmm.
Uh, but it didn't stop the gutpunches.
You know, life can be a mixedbag.
The

gut is never stop, I don't think.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, and it's interestingbecause.
I mean, I'm 31 right now, so I'mlike listening to your story.
You're like, yeah.
So it's interesting, like kindof, you know, putting myself in
those shoes and that's thatthing, but

you are eons ahead of me.

Well, yeah, it's funny cuz you can always find
someone like that.
Like, I, I got into this wholegame, or, you know, personal
development, business, all that,like mid twenties and I'm like,
man, I know people who like at17 were already like reading the
books that I'm reading now andyeah.
That kind of thing.
So you can always find thatexample either in front or
behind you, right?
So, yeah, absolutely.

(21:14):
It's just like, you know what,it is what it is.
I'm here where I am now andthere's probably a reason and a,
you know, kind of divine timingto all of it, uh, which is
something that takes a while to,to really understand, you know?
Yeah, absolutely.

Can I say something real quick?
Sure.
You just said something, I justwanna make a quick point and I I
don't wanna stop you, but Yeah.
You know, talking about gettingin it so young, you know, I, I
was in my thirties.
One of my main mentors wassomeone who was much younger
than me, that got in the, thatindustry at about 17, eight
years old, was homeless andSheena becoming very successful,
you know, being a star in one ofthose shows, uh, secret

(21:50):
Millionaire and stuff like that.
And so my point is just simply,that's something we all need to
be aware of too.
You know, I've lived life, I'vegot a lot of wisdom, a lot of
experience.
But if you really want to be notlike most people, you need to be
teachable from anybody.
Mm-hmm.
Doesn't matter their age doesn'teven matter, their experience.
Every, every single one of usbring value to this planet.

Yeah, a hundred percent.
I mean, that's, that's the hardthing is like, you wanna catch
people young as much as you can,right.
Because the, like, when you'reolder, people are set in their
ways and thinking they have, youknow, less pliability and kind
of who they are and that sort ofthing.
Right.
I think it's like by the age of35, like your personality's
supposed to be kind of like setor whatever.

(22:32):
Yes.
I don't necessarily buy thatpersonally.
Um, but that tends to be.
Kind of how it goes for mostpeople, you know?
Sure.
So like, you get people in theirfifties and they're like, eh,
it's too late for me to, tochange my life or turn around
and like, I get it right?
Because like I said, I'm, I'm 30and I look at people who are 20
and I'm like, man, I, I got alate start.
And so I like, I get it whenpeople are like forties,

(22:54):
fifties, sixties, and they'relike, oh man.
Like, well, I've been doing thisforever.
This is who I am.
I'm not gonna, this isn't gonnachange.
And so it's, it's not easy, butit's always po There's always
stories that you can find ofpeople who did it.
Absolutely.
But, um, absolutely.
But anyways, going back to whatyou said a couple times about
gut punches, um, you know, kindof, I've done a few of these,

(23:16):
like little, I have the summitcoming up, but I've done a few
of these kind of little, notmost people live events where I
do a live podcast and I alwaysget up and I speak for a few
minutes and I hate, I hatepublic speaking, but I do it
just to kind of, you know, It'san opportunity to help people
understand not most people, on adeeper level, right?
And so I'll kind of like getinto a certain concept or
whatever, and you heard at thebeginning of the episode,

(23:37):
allergic to mediocrity groupthink and following the status
quo, right?
And when I say allergic tomediocrity, I think the only way
anyone ever achieves mediocrityis by settling, right?
Yeah.
Like if you, if you don't settlein life, there's no way that
you're stuck at mediocrity orthat you're gonna be there for
long, you know?

(23:58):
Yeah.
And settling happens becauselike you said, everyone gets
punched at the gut.
In the gut at some point.
Everybody, when we're young,we're ambitious, we're
optimistic, right?
All these things, everyonegrowing up, right?
Like everyone growing up, whatdo they wanna be?
They wanna be pro athletes,astronauts, celebrities,
millionaires, right?
All like no one's.

(24:18):
Like, man, I.
I want to grow up and like belike a telemarketer or
something, you know what I mean?
Right,

right.
So, and I'm gonna be the mostmediocre, fill in the blank that
I can possibly be cuz that'swhat I'm all about,

you know?
Right, exactly.
Yeah.
No, no one grows up being like,man, I can't wait to live an
average ass life, an averagehouse and drive an average car.
Right?
Like we just don't think thatway.
But that's where a lot of peopleend up because Yeah, as they're
crushing the gut, sometimes it'sat 11, sometimes it's at, you
know, in your twenties, wheneverthat might be.
Um, but since as most peoplethey get hit, okay, first time

(24:56):
you get back up, you get hitagain, you get knocked on your
butt, you get back up andeventually people tend to get
hit enough that they get knockeddown and they say, man, like,
yeah, I dunno if I wanna standback up again cuz I think I'm
just gonna get knocked backdown.
Is it worth it?
Yeah.
I think it's more comfortable tojust kind of stay down here.
And that's what happens to mostpeople is they end up at a

(25:17):
certain point staying downthere.
And then the ones who become notmost people, the ones who we, we
hear the stories about, that weread about, that we watch movies
about.
They tend to be the ones whojust kind of like, no matter how
many times they get hit, theyjust keep getting back up.
Right.
They're, yeah.
I always say like, to be notmost people, you have to be kind
of a healthy amount of stubborn,right.

(25:37):
Yeah.
I like that.
Yeah, for sure.
Like hardheaded in a sense,which I've been told I am at
times, mainly by my wife, youknow?
But, uh, you should listen, butI'm like, sometimes that's a
good thing, you know, likethere's people Yeah, it is that
I know.
And I'm like, man, why aren'tyou more stubborn?
Like, why do you give up soeasy?
Or why do you, like, yeah, youknow, you wanna do these things

(25:57):
and you can, but like you've,you've kind of accepted the fact
that you can't, and becauseyou've done that now you won't.
You know what I mean?
So it's just a, you know, one ofthose analogies that.
I like to use, and you broughtit up a couple times.
And so I think that's reallypowerful.
But, um, you know, I thinkpeople listened to this at a

(26:18):
wide variety of ages.
It's never too late.
And the only way you're evergonna lose long term is if you
stop, you know, whatever it is.
So, and you're gonna have toadjust, you're gonna have to
pivot, right?
Like, you growing up in yourteens was totally different from
your twenties was totallydifferent than your thirties,
right?
Yeah.
So it's like wherever you're at,we tend to think that that's

(26:41):
where we're gonna be, right?
That our life's just gonnacontinue on that path.
And you're, you've clearly shownlike, all right, zero to 11 was
pretty awesome.
At 11 things changed bigdrastically.
And your twenties, you know,they changed again at 31.
They're cha So it's like, Imean, it's almost kind of like a
decade by decade thing in yourstory in a sense.

(27:01):
Yeah.
No, you're right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then, so from 31, you moved.
That's another thing that.
Kind of jumps out at me.
Right.
You're like, I moved Change ofenvironment.
My life started to change forthe better.
And that's something that I canresonate with, right?
Like being from Connecticut,growing up there, uh, I'd lived
there till, you know, 27.

(27:24):
And then me and my wife, you,we, we weren't married yet, but
we moved out to Arizona.
We were there for four years.
And like big change.
Yeah.
A life-changing kind of move,you know, and, and for the
better, you know?
Cuz I think we grow up aroundcertain influences, certain
environments, certain people.
And at a certain point if wewant to do those bigger things,

(27:45):
we're still associated with kindof growing up, right?
And that's not always the onethat's most conducive to the
progress that we're seeking.
So I think it's, yeah, I'm nottelling everyone to go move
across the country, but I think,I think there's a lot of people
who would benefit heavily from.
A change of environment or akind of a fresh start.

(28:06):
Like you get to go now, like wedidn't know a single person in
Arizona.
So now I get to, in a sense, Ican reinvent myself, right?
Like I'm right, starting fresh,clean slate, new relationships,
new associations, like, you knowwhat I mean?
And so I think a lot of peopleneed that.
And it sounds like that was kindof how it worked for you.

Yeah, no, it really did.
Yeah.
You know, one, once I wasdivorced, I recognized that, you
know, it was kind of, kind of aclean slate, right?
Uh, at that point, uh, it wasjust me.
So I had the ability to make anykind of move I wanted to make.
And, um, for me, it had, it had,again, I'd mentioned earlier
that I really felt like I wassupposed to be in ministry,

(28:46):
meaning, you know, working foran organization or a church or
something.
That's just what I felt.
And so, mm-hmm.
When, to your point, when I madethe move from, it was Redding,
California, where I lived toDallas, I sold my car.
Um, Most of my belongings didnot have a job, had never
visited Dallas.

(29:08):
I mean, this is, yep.
Again, to your disclaimer aminute ago, this, this is not a
recommended plan, you know, tobeat not for everyone.
Yeah.
Right.
Not for everyone.
Um, but it w But here's thepoint.
Just like you felt compelled tomove to Arizona, you know,
that's how I felt.
I felt compelled.
Mm-hmm.
And so I, I followed through onit and, and I really believe

(29:29):
that there was a few things thatwere going to happen once I got
here.
Now, I'll, I'll admit upfrontbefore we get into that, the
timetable almost never matches.
Right.
You almost never happened.
Never as quickly as you want.
Right.
But I really believed I wasgonna get another chance at
being a.
Um, I did not have kids with myprevious wife, so I, you know,
I, I did want to be a father, soI believed that was gonna come.

(29:51):
I also believed that this iswhere I was gonna find a really
key mentor in my life, which didhappen.
And so when I made that move,you know, it was a courageous
decision.
Um, but it, it just came out ofthis, this mindset that I've got
to, to your point, I've gottaput myself in a new environment.

(30:12):
And I think the reason why, oneof the reasons why that works is
because you position yourselffor new growth.
Mm-hmm.
You know, sometimes it can bereally difficult to continue to
grow in the same exactenvironment.
You know, there's certain kindof plants and trees where that's
even true.
Where you put'em in a smallerplant and then there comes a
point where if they're gonnagrow into the fullness, you

(30:32):
gotta keep upgrading.
Right.
Right.
So I think, I think move like ashark.
Yeah.
So I think moves can be justlike that to exactly what you
said.

Yeah.
So then that was kind of in asense, a spark.
You started to, I'm get youfound that mentor.
Did you find that the wife, likeall those things that you kind
of went out believing you weregonna find?
That's it.

I did.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so we, uh, now we're notgonna get, I'm just telling you
upfront cuz we don't have timefor this.
Mm-hmm.
Our story and some of the thingsthat transpired over a couple
years and how we ended upgetting married is a, is a,
probably an episode in ofitself.
So I'm gonna, I'm gonna spareyou guys that, but just know a,
a couple of years down the roadis when we ended up coming

(31:16):
together and we got married andwe've been married, it'll be 20
years, actually next month.
Um, but part of the reason whyI, I wanna even bring that part
up is during that dead space, ifI could say it that way, where I
moved here and then it was acouple years before I even met
her.
I was very intentional to readlots of books.

(31:40):
Um, you know, listen todifferent, whether it was back
in those days, probably acassette tape, whatever, but
just listen to different thingsso I could learn how to become a
man of better character, ofbetter integrity.
How to become a great husbandand even a father.
I read stuff on fatherhood andstuff like that before I was
even a dad.
Mm-hmm.

(32:00):
You know, I think those, that,that two year period, even
though I felt like, come on,when is this gonna happen?
You know, it was so critical.
It was foundational for me tobecome the man that I needed to
be to even receive some of thosegifts.
Mm-hmm.
And be able to steward themwell.
And so I think, you know, that'ssomething for those of you

(32:22):
listening out there that mayfeel like you're in this like no
man's land or you're justcircling the airport Right.
Waiting.
Like, when am I gonna land?
You know, pay attention towhat's in front of you.
You know, take that time, use itproductively and, and whatever
it is you want to do, Take thattime to study it, to learn it,
to get mentors and, and beprepared.

(32:43):
Yeah.

I think a lot of people, it's funny cuz you'll,
you ask anyone like, Hey, do youthink you could go transform
yourself physically in a year ortwo?
Like at the gym?
Yeah.
If put your mind to it, if yousurround yourself with the right
things, if you take in the rightthings, everyone say, yeah, of
course.
You know, cuz it's tangible.
We could see that.
But then if you ask people thesame thing about like, you know,

(33:06):
you think you can come a, becomea totally new person the way you
think and your mindset and allthat kind of stuff in a year or
two, like, most of'em be like,nah, it's probably not.
I am who I am.
You know?
And so it's, it's just so crazyto me because you're not even
limited by physical biology.
Yes.
And how fast you can change andtransform.
Right.
You're just limited by likeyour, your brain, your minds.
And Absolutely that can changelike that in the, you know,

(33:29):
doing the right things.
So, There's so many people, itdrives me in, like, I just wanna
like shake people sometimes whenthey're like, oh, I can't, I
can't change, or I can't, youknow, this is who I am, or I
can't, I can't do that.
You know, even though that'skind of what I really want.
And I'm like, why?
You know?
Right, right.
So like, you're a prime example.
Like you can, you can totallykind of transform who you are in

(33:51):
a very short amount of time.
And Yeah.
Yeah.
Most people just keep kickingthat can down the road and
they're like, uh, you know, it'snot worth it.
But like now, from 30 on, that'syour whole life.
That's completely on a new path.

Yeah.
I think, you know, and I, I'llbe curious to see if you agree
with this, or maybe you justhave a, a different take on it,
but mm-hmm.
I feel like especially overworking with so many different
human beings over the course ofthe last 20, 30 years, I really
believe one of the problems thatso many people have, They're so
destination oriented versusjourney oriented, you know, and

(34:29):
I'm not against the word, Imean, my gosh, especially as a,
as a pastor, I probably preachedthe word destiny a thousand
times.
Right.
It's a churchy word, but I don'treally use it much anymore.
And the only reason is because Ifeel like destination for most
people often speaks to, if Ijust do 1, 2, 3, then I've
arrived, you know?
Yeah.
And, and that's just not the wayanything in life works, man.

(34:51):
It's all a journey, you know,getting in shape.
Mm-hmm.
Most people, it happens, mostpeople will join the gym
somewhere between December 27thand February 5th.
Right.
I mean, January 5th.
Yeah.
And, and what do they do?
They try to go from zero to ahundred.
They think I need to look likethat person immediately, and

(35:15):
they don't allow themselves thetime of the journey it's gonna
take to get there, you know?
Right.
So I just, for me, I thinkthat's part of it.
I think it's this, This ideathat we all want quick fixes and
we don't necessarily want to putin the work, and instead of
embracing the journey of it, wetry to, you know, create this
fast track destination that'sreally difficult to pull off.

Yeah, yeah.
I mean, we've probably all heardlike the map analogy, right?
It's like you, most people don'teven have a goal or an end
point.
Like most people are justdriving and hoping that they end
up somewhere that they, thatthey're gonna, like, which the
chances of that happening are,you know, not great.
So it's having that, like, thatset point, that destination.

(35:58):
But then like people have thatand they're like, I'm not gonna
enjoy anything along the.
Right.
It's like doing a road, roadtrip and like, I'm not gonna
look right or left to enjoyanything.
I'm not gonna stop, I'm notgonna visit anywhere else.
And it's like, well, yeah, youare.
You're gonna be forced to,you're gonna have detours,
you're gonna have traffic, likethings that slow you down, throw

(36:19):
you off, things that come up,other opportunities.
And that's just kind of howthings work, right?
But if you're like, man, I'mgonna go straight line to this
place, you know?
And there's obviously, there'svehicles that get you to where
you wanna go faster, right?
Absolutely.
This is kind of the whole planeversus car thing and stuff, but
then you're gonna get to thatpoint.
You see that point, and thenit's you, right?

(36:42):
It's like getting to a placethat you're, you've been like
trying to get to and then you'rethere and then you're there for,
you visited a little bit andyou're like, you're never like,
okay, now I'm just happy to sit.
Right.
You're like, oh, let's gosomewhere else.
Let's check out somewhere else.
Let's keep moving.
Right.
But people think that like oncethey hit this goal that they're
just gonna be like contentforever.
Right.
You know?
Exactly.

(37:02):
That it's gonna solve all theirproblems and you know, it's
just, it's just not the case.
And so I think it's important tohave both.
I think you need to havedirection Absolutely.
Be of view.
Flexible in, in what that is andhow you're gonna get there.
Right.
Because especially like thefurther out you set that, the

(37:23):
more likely it is that it'sgonna shift and change on the
way there.
Right.
Oh, ab

yeah.
Absolutely.
You know, and you know, you knowthis as much as anybody, you
know, there's, there'smillionaires, billionaires out
there that achieve certainthings that are completely
miserable.
Yeah.
And, and, and usually it'sbecause it's not so much about
set goals necessarily, cuzthey're obviously high
achievers, so they'd never getthere.
Mm-hmm.
But there's compartments Yeah.

(37:48):
Of their life.
That they've become mediocre.
Kind of go back to how westarted this conversation, you
know?
Mm-hmm.
Not everybody lives in abjectmediocrity in every area of
their life.
I would say most people may havean area, or maybe it's pretty
good.
Mm-hmm.
But they have these othercompartments of mediocrity and

(38:09):
they've just chosen for whateverreason, to ignore those.
And eventually it catches upwith you, right?

Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
I don't know about you.
I'm guessing that you're, you'refamiliar with Tony Robbins and a
lot of his teachings and stuff.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
So it's like he has the Wheel oflife, right?
Which is like seven differentkind of main areas of life.
And like if you, if you're a onein one area and at nine in the
other, whatever, like your, yourwheel's not gonna move very
smoothly.
Right.

(38:35):
And uh, you know, same thing,health, wealth, relationships,
that kind of triad that almosteverything seems to fit into.
I've found that most people tendto have.
Comes naturally to them out ofthose three that they excel at
one that's kind of somewhere inthe middle.
If they work out a little bit,you know, it, it comes.
And then one that's, that's astruggle, right?

(38:56):
So like, for me personally, uh,health, right?
Grew up an athlete.
Sports fitness, like that's,that's side of life has always
come very easy to me.
The relationships part did notcome easy to me, but I worked my
butt off to kind of learn aboutit and change who I was and, um,
and understand it.
And I went from like, beingthat, that like hopeless

(39:19):
romantic, that couldn't, youknow, get a date to save his
life, to like, you know,marrying my wife, who a lot of
people are like, wow, how'd youdo that?
So, and then the wealth part is,is that one area That tends to
be the biggest challenge for mepersonally, you know, but like
everyone kind of ha and it's,it's developing that
self-awareness around Yeah.
Will tend to find that strengthor that one area and just go all

(39:43):
in.
And then like, you know, youcrank that area up to a 10 and
then you're like, oh crap.
Like all my other areas, now Igotta go back and bring them up.
And it can be harder to do it inretrospect, right?
Because now you've maybe, likethe classic example is the
person who gets very successfulmoney wise, but then they
totally forget about theirhealth while they're doing it.

(40:03):
Right?
And then they go back andthey're like, man, I got all
this money, but now I can'tenjoy it.

Right.
Absolutely.
Or they have terrible marriages,relationships, whatever.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's

a great point.
Yeah.
So it's, yeah, it's finding thatbalance.
It's, it's self-awareness.
I think self-awareness is thegreat separator for, for all
people.
Most people aren't willing tokind of look inside themselves
cause we're, we're scared ofwhat we might find, you know?
Or these days especially, peoplecan't sit with themselves.
We always have to be smartphone,tv, whatever it is.

(40:35):
Music in the background, likethe ability to just kind of be
with our, um, that's where youreally get to know yourself,
right.
And, uh, I think a hundredpercent that that's a big
missing piece, right?
And I think whether you're, youknow, this or not, I think
that's where a lot of value of,like prayer comes from
universally, right?

(40:55):
It's time with yourself, timewith, you know, whatever it is
you might believe in.
Um, and that's valuable, youknow, no matter kind of where
you come from.

I totally agree a hundred percent.
You know, I think there isdefinitely a power in the
self-awareness, um, exercise,however you do that, you know?
Mm-hmm.
I think for me, in the lastprobably, well, honestly, since
my son's death, even from 2019,that caused a whole other

(41:29):
cascade of different types ofshifts and, and self-reflection
and stuff like that.
So I think I'm probably at themuch more intentional in these
last few years than I'd everbeen.
Mm-hmm.
And one of the things that Istarted doing more.
Which is what you're describingis, is just taking time to
think, like, literally likegoing out on a walk or man, if

(41:50):
we live by the beach, whichsomeday, yeah, I would be out
there often, but you know, herein Dallas, depending on weather,
just, you know, go out for awalk, get outside, just get
outside of your, wherever yourbusyness is happening mm-hmm.
That kills your creative nature,you know?
Yeah.
And just taking time to thinkabout who you are and who you
want to become and what you're,you know, where things are going

(42:12):
great and where they're not, andeverything you just described
mm-hmm.
Is so critical.
Cuz if you don't take time to dothat, you will end up like most
people with major pockets ofmediocrity.

Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Or mental health issues.
Like we're seeing a huge rise inis because I think less and less
people are able to deal withtheir own emotions and work
through those things.
Absolutely.
Understand themselves.
And, uh, yeah.
It's um, I could go on and onabout that, I think.
But I know you, you mentioned itand I want to get into it with,

(42:45):
um, oh, one thing that made methink about just is like, people
are like, oh, you know, do Ihave to go meditate and spend
all this time by myself?
And it's like, not necessarily,but Right, right.
Was like how many people gettheir best ideas in the shower,
right?
Yeah.
Because it's one of the fewplaces where we're not like
looking at a screen, we're nottalking to someone, and that

(43:07):
sort of thing.
And like, so if you like, takethat like 10 minutes, uh, shower
time that the average personhas, and like you multiply that,
like think of how much is gonnacome to you, right?
How many realizations, how manyideas.
So that's just kind of aAbsolutely.
A simple example.
Yeah.

Yeah.
Let me, let me jump on that justfor two seconds, you know?
Yeah.
I, for, for me person.
It is totally that way.
Mm-hmm.
And it's not that I never comeup with anything creative or any
good ideas while I'm working,like set aside to work.
Um, but there's no question Ifeel like my best ideas, my best
creative thoughts generally comewhen I'm not trying to do them

(43:45):
and when I'm not working onthem.
Yes.
It comes when I'm doing whateverthe

activity is.
When you create a space for themto come to you.
Yeah, exactly.

Where, where I'm not, you know, focusing on
trying to fix the problem,things just come to you.
They really do.

Yeah.
So I wanna transition, um,because I know you mentioned it
with your son passing in 2019and that's, that's kind of, you
know, obviously I, I can'timagine what that was like.
I've never experienced anythinglike that, but that seemed to be
another of those like transitionpoints that we've been, has kind

(44:21):
of been a ongoing theme.
Yeah.
So, You're an active pastor atthe time.
Yeah.
Right.
Your son at, I believe, was 17,passed away unexpectedly.
That's correct.
Um, yeah, tell us about that andkind of like how, how you
navigated that for.
And then kind of transition intowhat you're working on now?

(44:42):
We're doing now,

yeah.
So I'm, I'm gonna backtrack justa hair, but I'm gonna, but I'm
gonna do it very quickly to notmm-hmm.
Belabor any points.
But, you know, we, we left offwith my story of us, you know,
I'm here in Dallas a coupleyears ago by, I'm, I'm married
now.
Yeah.
Life is good.
And so it's really how it wasfelt like, man, we're, you know,
we we're just like best friends.
We have an incredible marriage.
At that time, we had Gabriel,who, who's the oldest, and then

(45:06):
we had our middle son, Joel, andlife's good.
Right?
But that didn't mean that thereweren't other hiccups along the
way.
Mm-hmm.
You know, Gabriel himself wasborn about, uh, two months, a
little over two months early atthree pounds, 12 ounces.
But she had a pregnancy diseasecalled preeclampsia, basically
super high blood pressure.
Mm-hmm.
Then we decide to have ourmiddle son, Joel, and.

(45:27):
Goes full term, she's healthy.
We're like, yes.
You know, you think you're ontrack, right?
This is how it works.
Yep.
You think everything's goingyour way.
And I, I literally go into theroom with Joel and the nurse
after, you know, they gave, shegave birth, she ended up having
to have a c-section cuz sheended up just stuck in labor for
like 12 hours.
So I'm in there and, and we'recleaning them up and it's just

(45:47):
like, yeah, this is amazing.
And all of a sudden they come.
One of the other, uh, nursescame in with, she's
professional, but you could tellby the look on her face.
And she pulls me back into therecovery room.
And Amarillo was reallystruggling to come outta the
anesthesia.
She, it wasn't going well.
So, you know, another very scarysituation and moment.

(46:09):
Yeah.
Obviously she ended up pullingout of that.
And, and then, and then life'sgoing good.
And there's promotions andthere's, we, we moved to
Washington State to work withour mentors.
You know, there's just goodstuff happening.
Hmm.
And then Liam comes along and,This is too long gonna start.
I won't give you the wholething, but in short, we, our
house in Louisiana, cuz we hadactually moved from Louisiana to

(46:29):
Washington.
This is 2007, 2008.
So people mm-hmm.
That know housing crisis.
Yep.
We had a house down there.
We couldn't sell for like, twoyears nightmare.
And we were living in Washingtonwith what was in our suitcases,
literally.
So I literally leave, she's sixmonths pregnant.
I leave one morning to fly toNew Orleans so that I can meet

(46:50):
with movers over the next fewdays, pack up our house and
we're just, we're done.
We're, we're just done trying tolive that way.
We wanna leave the house stage.
It wasn't working.
So we were gonna move into aplace in Washington with all of
our stuff and just see whathappens with the house.
I, I leave and she's feeling,eh?
Okay.
I get there eight hours latercause it's, you can't fly

(47:12):
direct.
Takes all day to get there.
Mm-hmm.
And by the time I got there,Bradley, she was already being
rushed to the hospital where ourdoctor was, that she was
originally gonna give birth toor with, uh, because her blood
pressure had skyrocketed.
It well over 200, over ahundred.
I'm like, oh my God.
I, and so I'm like, I'm gonnacall you back.

(47:33):
I hadn't gotten to my house yet,you know?
Yeah.
Call her an hour later and nowshe's being transferred to
another hospital that's aspecial NICU unit that they were
saying we may have to give birthtonight.
Hmm.
I was like, you know what theheck?
Ultimately I was able to getback the next day before she
gave birth.
And Liam was born at one pound,14 ounces.

(47:54):
Wow.
Or three months early, you know.
So another family event, right.
That mm-hmm.
It's not anything you want, notanything you ask for, but
through it.
We grew, we learned how tofunction, you know, stronger as
a family.
My boys were, my other two boyswere very young.
They, at times had to spendhours in the hospital room, or

(48:15):
excuse me, waiting room, waitingfor us to come out of visiting
Liam, because it was also duringthe H one M one virus.
Virus.
I ring a bell, right?
So we were the only two, Emeril,I were only two that could even
visit Liam for two and a halfmonths, you know?
So there's these other smallergut punches and things going on
that ultimately were living byour values.
We're maintaining these mindsetsof growth and moving forward and

(48:39):
not getting stuck incircumstances.
So then fast forward to Gabriel.
Gabriel wanted to be a pilotfrom the time he was eight years
old.
He went up with his uncle Dannyin a little plane and just pot
the fever, you know.
So by the time, as you said, bythe time he was 16 years old, he
actually, uh, you know, yougotta work with a flight
instructor for some time beforethis happens.
But at 16, right?
He's soloed for the first timebefore he even had his driver's

(49:02):
license here in Texas.
Wow.
Which was, you know, cool andfreaky and, you know, all the
above.
And so then at 17, that's theyoungest you can be to actually
apply for a private pilot'slicense certificate.
He took the exam, he aced it.
He, um, took the check ride,aced the check ride, and boom,
you know, was already living hisdream.
He became a pilot.

(49:22):
So over the course of the nextseveral months, he continued to
train.
Um, anybody who knows anythingabout young pilots, not mean
age, just new pilots.
It's all about hours.
You know, you're just trying toget in a plane and fly as much
as you can.
So that's where he was.
Yeah.
And then on September 23rd,2019, he was taking a friend,
uh, home, well not home, but toschool at the University of

(49:44):
Arkansas, which is several hoursnorth of us cuz she was here for
the weekend for a funeral of allthings.
Mm-hmm.
And so he, he dropped her offand then as he was returning,
this was night flying, which waswhat he was doing and needed to
do.
Mm-hmm.
He ended up about 20 minutes outof Fayetteville and ran into an
unexpected weather system and heended up, essentially same thing

(50:06):
that happened with the KobeBryant pilot, which most people
are probably aware of.
Yeah.
And he suffered from what theycall spatial disorientation.
So he ended up flying into themountainside and lost his life.
And, you know, it was a hellishnight, as you can imagine.
We knew he had disappeared atabout eight o'clock, 8:00 PM on
the 23rd.
And then it was just a series.

(50:27):
I won't take you through it,Bradley, but it was just a
series of.
Painful hours and, andmisinformation and getting one
story from the search andrescue, the, because he was in a
rural area that had no cellphone coverage saying they had
nothing to report while I'mlooking at my phone and news
agencies are leaking newinformation as we went along the

(50:48):
night.
It was just a truly a, anightmare.
Yeah.
And it wasn't until 3:30 AM thatwe had the final word from the
coroner that he was indeed, uh,dead and, and had passed away.
And so, you know, um, to say,you know, it's not even fair to
call that a gut punch.
I mean, it's a life-changing,right?
Yeah.

(51:08):
Our lives will never be thesame.
Mm-hmm.
Um, that's not something thatyou just move on from.
Um, but, you know, to, to move,move into the story and lead us
eventually to where we aretoday.
There was a couple things thathappened that morning that were
really critical and ended upsending me on a new journey as
you described.

(51:28):
You know, the first was I had tosit down with my two sons who
were nine and 14 at the time,and they had slept through the
night.
We did not get them up.
We didn't want them to gothrough, we didn't even know,
you know, where it was gonnaend.
Yeah.
So I had to sit down and havethe impossible conversation with
them that morning.
They came out and I think, youknow, you, you guys know enough
of my story now to know, youknow, there's been these ebbs

(51:51):
and flows, but there's beensome, some life experiences,
some character development, um,you know, certainly helping
people for many years as apastor in very difficult
situations, including losingloved ones.
Mm-hmm.
Played to my favor to a smalldegree.
And what I mean by that, itdoesn't help you with pain.

(52:12):
Pain is very real when you losea child.
Yeah.
Or anyone really close to you.
Um, but I did understand thepitfalls of where we could end
up if we didn't set a compass.
Yeah.
So I told the boys, I said,listen, we have two choices.
We can choose.
And I, I call these, I didn'tsay it to them this way,

(52:32):
Bradley, but I, I call them nowlife or death mentalities, just
for the sake of conversation.
Mm-hmm.
I said we can choose to focus onhis death.
Meaning boys, we can constantlybe focused on the tragedy.
How he died.
He, he died in a plane crash.
He died in a plane crash, tryingto chase his dreams.
You know, we're, we have allthese milestones and events that

(52:53):
we're not gonna experience now.
And if that's our focal point, Iknew we were gonna be shadows of
who we were created to be.
Yeah.
I've seen it too many times.
I've seen marriages end up indivorce and families of club.
Yeah.
And then this, the part two withthat was is here's the other
side, boys, well, let me finishwith this.
So I said, here's how we'regonna honor Gabriel.

(53:13):
You, you guys already know hebecame a pilot at 17.
That's, that's a pretty bigdeal.
But he taught himself guitar.
Mm-hmm.
He was an amazing photographerwho had some incredible
opportunities with that gift.
He attacked life.
I, I, I like to joke, you know,we all like t-shirts with
something on it.
His would be what's next?
Hmm.
Because even though he facedfear like anybody else, he never

(53:35):
let it stop him.
Mm-hmm.
And he was willing to take therisks necessary to chase the
pursuits that he wanted toexperience.
And so I told him, we are goingto honor his life by living the
way he did.
We're gonna commit to that as afamily, not doing the stuff he
did cuz we have our own sounds.
Part one, part two was we don'tknow what grieving is gonna be

(53:56):
like.
There's no way to predict andthere's four of us involved in
this.
Right.
As a family.
So everybody's gonna feel alittle bit differently at times.
But we set the, the compass thatday that it didn't matter how
anybody was feeling, you couldbe angry and you could cuss.
We, we don't do that much as afamily, but I felt the need to
tell my boys that.
It's like, even if you get soangry, you feel like you need to

(54:18):
cuss, do it.
It's okay.
There will be no consequence.
You know, if we need to cry,we're gonna cry.
If we need to laugh becausewe're remembering some joyful
experience with him or somethingfunny about his personality, all
of it is okay, but we're gonnado it together.
And this was so critical, and Iwant your listeners out there
who, who maybe, maybe havesuffered through something like

(54:41):
this and maybe they're still alittle stuck or, or you know,
those who are hearing this now.
And, and god forbid, you end upin a situation, not like mine
necessarily, but just where yousuffer a tough loss.
For us, it was our family.
But you've gotta pull in somepeople that, you know, will walk
with you through this no matterwhat.
Mm-hmm.
And won't try to stop how you'refeeling.

(55:01):
So as a dad, I've cried in frontof my boys many times and
recently.
Mm-hmm.
You know, it wasn't just inthose first 48 hours or year,
you know?
Right.
There's still moments where Imiss my son and, and the goal
isn't even to get rid of thepain because the pain represents
the love we share, period.
Mm-hmm.
But we have used those thingsthat, that life mentality and

(55:26):
that commitment to each other,to allow each other to grow and
to experience the complexemotions that come with losing a
loved one.
You know, we've allowed eachother to cry.
We've had courageousconversations where maybe I feel
pretty good today, but I justdon't know if Amarillo is or
not.
You know, many times in thosesituations people are afraid to

(55:48):
even ask their, even their ownspouse, how are you doing?
And they're afraid to ask thatbecause one, they don't wanna
trigger themselves.
Cause I, I feel pretty goodtoday.
Or, or they feel like, well,maybe they're doing good.
Maybe I shouldn't say anything.
You know?
And we have not been, you know,shy about that.
We have not steered away fromthat.
And so we've had those hardconversations and sometimes it

(56:10):
has been one of us is, isfeeling really heavy that day.
Yeah.
And we allow those emotions toprocess and we talk it through
and then, and then boom, we, wemove forward.
We keep stepping, we keeppursuing our dreams and our
lives.
And so that's really ultimatelywhat began this new
transformation for even me as aman.

(56:31):
Cuz what I realized, Bradley,um, and we talked about it early
in this conversation, when Ibegan to look at my, you know,
wheel of life.
I didn't do that exercise.
I'm familiar with it, it's verypowerful.
But as I just began to beself-aware and take time to
think and look at who I was and,and you know, where I was in
life in terms.
Yeah.
I was a courageous, you hear meuse the word courage a lot.

(56:54):
I, I was a courageous person incompartments of my life.
Mm-hmm.
But I recognized there werecompartments of my life that,
unlike my son Gabriel, who neverseemed to let anything get in
his way.
If it's something he wanted todo, I was a coward.
And those are fighting words.
Yeah.
You know, if you, if one of, ifyou and I, you know, were

(57:14):
friends now.
Right.
But if we were in front of eachother and one of us called each
other a coward, woo, man, thattakes some SelfControl.

Right.
Because there's Yeah.
As a man, there's not manybigger insults.
Right.

It really is not, you know?
Yeah.
Um, but it was true.
Mm-hmm.
It was true.
I called my, I, I called myselfthat in the book.
I, I called myself a coward.
It made me began to look atareas of my life where I had
allowed fear and mediocrity andthose things.
To keep me from really going forit in certain areas.
One was writing a book, which Ieventually did.

(57:46):
Another was starting this, youknow, transformational dev, you
know, personal developmentcompany.
Something I thought about doingon the side for decades.
Didn't have the courage to doit.
Mm-hmm.
You know, so there was, therewas just something in, even
though his loss is very real andit's still painful and you know,
we're, we're gonna grieve indifferent ways at different

(58:07):
times for the rest of our lives.
It was also a catalyst to wakeme up and my entire family, you
know, the boys are obviouslyyoung.
Yeah.
But we all have our own versionof what it has looked like to
pursue our deepest dreams andlive big bull brave, which I'll

(58:28):
explain how that came about in asecond.
It's a very short story.
But my wife became an artist andshe's does just this amazing
work and that's been herexpression that really.
You know, it was tough for abouteight months, to be honest.
She, she didn't do much with itfor about eight months after his
death.
But eventually when she began tocatch momentum and that became

(58:50):
her version of Big Bull Brave,it exploded.
And my boys have their versionsof, of what that looks like as
well.
So, you know, the, it was, itwas ultimately a catalyst to
cause us to under turn everyrock in life and begin to make
changes.
Changes in who we were to pursuethe things we want to pursue.

(59:11):
And even, you know, I know you,you talk about this a lot too,
you know, who we surroundourselves with.
There was a lot of things wewere doing that we realized we
were doing out of obligation,not out of passion.
Mm-hmm.
And there are even somerelationships, or at least time
spent, That were more, I have achapter in the book at the end
of the book called Boundariesand Parasites.

(59:32):
I know that sounds offensive,but you know, parasites sucked
the life outta you.
They don't give you anything inreturn.
Mm-hmm.
And so we even looked at thatand began to really be more
intentional of who we reallyspent our intimate relationships
with.
Didn't mean we didn't still helppeople that need help.
And that's, you know.
Yeah.

Wow.
Well, first off, thanks forsharing that again.
I know you've done it a bunch oftimes, but I can't imagine it's,
it's easy.
Yeah.
Uh, like I said, I've never beenthrough anything quite like
that.
Any, I mean, I, I'd say most,most people haven't been through
a loss like that probably untilthey've been older.
But I always think about man,like, how am I gonna deal with

(01:00:14):
it when it, when it does happen?
Because I know when it does.
Like it's gonna just, you know,crush me in a way, because I've
never, never dealt, you know,I've, I've been to funerals,
obviously I've lost, you know,my grandparents.
But, you know, I also, I sawthem maybe once a year kind of
thing.
And, and that's so, um, but I'veseen this happen where, like you

(01:00:40):
said, you've seen it as a pastora thousand times where someone
suffers a loss.
Everything kind of falls apartfrom there.
And then there's, there's theother one where people look at
it and they find the meaning andthey say, okay, how would he
have or she have wanted us tolive?
Yeah.
You know, what does it teach us?
You know, we, we now see howprecious and how short life can

(01:01:03):
be.
And so now we're gonna liveevery day c to the fullest and
like it's our last and um, youknow, there's this, there's
this, uh, kind of travel videovlogger named Sam Colder and he
has the most amazing videos, buthe did one, um, that I'll have
to send you in that I'll have toput in the show notes for you
guys listening that.

(01:01:25):
Um, man, what, I'll have to lookup what it's called, but he did
it cuz his younger brother,maybe his older brother, his
brother, uh, drowned when theywere like in, in their teens.
And so he kind of made thisvideo as like a tribute to his
brother Yeah.
And showed all of these amazingthings that he's gone on to do
and how he is like, you know,his mindset because of all that.

(01:01:48):
And it's really a powerfulvideo.
I'll have to, I'll have to sendit and share it with everyone,
but it's just Please do, pleasedo.
I wrote that down too.
Yeah, I will.
Yeah.
But, uh, yeah, it's incredibleto hear just what you've done
with it, um, and your family.
And I think a lot of peoplelistening to that are, you know,
when you brought up the cowardand courageous part, you know,

(01:02:10):
like I I said earlier in theepisode, I like to sometimes
shake people and be like, whydon't you go for it?
Why don't you do the things youwant to do?
But we're all guilty of havingthose areas where we, we are
kind of.
We hold back, we don't go forit.
We limit ourselves.
Yeah.
Um, and so to be able to usesomething like that to, you

(01:02:30):
know, obviously it's, it'sdirectly impacted you and your,
your boys and your wife, butthe, the trickle down effect
from all the people that you'reconnected to and that new hymn
and knew you guys and, and nowwith everything you're doing
with your book and getting onpodcasts and all this stuff,
like who, you know, you can'teven, can't even count like the
impact to that.

(01:02:51):
So, um,

Clint Hatton (01:02:53):
yeah, if I could say something to that too.
Mm-hmm.
I, I love what you just said andI, I think it's important to dis
um, distinguished for everybodylistening to that.
We're not talking about doingthis perfectly.
Yeah.
You know, we're not, we're not aperfect family.
I'm not a perfect dad.
I'm not a perfect husband.
My kids aren't perfect.
You know, there has beencontinued rocky roads in

(01:03:15):
different ways and, and, andlife continues.
Right?
So we've had different.
Gut punches since then.
Obviously they don't compare onthe level of emotional pain,
but, um, so I, I think it'sreally important as you, as you
think about this for your ownlife, again, we're back to the
journey thing, you know, sowhat, what these mindsets have
done for us, and that's why Ikeep using the word compass.

(01:03:35):
It's, it's given us a truenorth, it's given us something
to recalibrate towards, but itdoesn't mean we've done it
perfectly.
So if you've had a bad day or abad month or a bad year, god
forbid, a bad decade, you know,it's not over.
Yeah.
But you, you just need to putyour head down and, and focus on
your values and what's, what'smeaningful to you and who you

(01:03:56):
wanna become and start takingthose steps.
And as long as you keep takingthose steps, it really won't
matter what hits you, you willstill continue to move forward.

Bradley Roth (01:04:07):
Yeah.
And one other thing that youmentioned that.
I think what was really powerfulwas how you, you said, we're not
gonna like numb ourselves.
We're not gonna fight away theemotions.
We're gonna experience them andlet them happen.
Right.
So that they don't becometrapped and Yep.
You know, and that, that doesn'tlead anywhere necessarily.

(01:04:29):
Good.
And especially, you know that inyour, in your twenties right?
You were doing these drugs to,to nu like, just like any kind
of escape that people use to, tonumb ourselves, to avoid feeling
something or to push awaysomething that's uncomfortable.
So yeah, I think it's reallyimportant that people, like we
have, we have this kind of like,there's good emotions, there's

(01:04:52):
bad emotions, and it's notright.
You know, all emotions are asignal and it's, it's just kind
of how you deal with them,right?
Like you can, that's exactlyright.
Yeah.
You can take anger orfrustration and you can be
self-destructive or you can useit, you know, to motivate you.
Right?
Like there's countless examplesof how you can use.

(01:05:13):
Emotions.
But I think again, it, it allties together kinda everything
we've been talking about withlike the learning to sit with
yourself and be with yourselfand feel those emotions.
Right.
And that's right.
The more you push them off the,you know, the bigger they're
gonna grow or the, you know, theharder it gets and that sort of
thing.
So I think it's super important,whether it's grief, whether it's
anything else that you allow itto happen.

(01:05:35):
Right.
And I, yeah, I have, like,growing up, just a lot of, like,
really, I was always the personwho, you know, if I had issues,
I, I was amazing and I'm stillpretty good at it, you know,
taking'em and just kind of, youknow, pushing'em down and Right.
Ignoring Mo and, and I don'tfeel'em, and, and that kind of
thing.
You know, I, I never reallydealt with them, so to say,

(01:05:56):
growing up.
And so that's kind of, yeah.
And then all of a sudden, likelast year, you know, this kind
of series of events happenedthat man, like all these, all of
these things that I think wererepressed for so long,
eventually just kind of likeburst through.
Yeah.
And.
I was dealing with all kinds ofdifferent things at once, you
know, and, um, and that's like,you know, again, I haven't, I

(01:06:16):
haven't dealt with any reallyhigh level trauma necessarily,
but all these kind of microthings that just, they stack up,
they compound, they build, theymatter.
Yeah.
And be, yeah.
And because I had kind of like,you know, dealt with them in my
not dealing with them way they,they all came back to the
surface and every, and theywill.
Right.
And so I kind of, it's funny inthis past year, really learned

(01:06:36):
that lesson.
And so, um, you know, especiallyfor guys out there, we're kind
of taught, you know, you don'tshow it, you don't deal with it,
you don't Right.
Share it.
And uh, you know, so it's kindof trying to change that
paradigm, right?
You don't, you don't have to goand become, it's not saying, oh,
you know, go become hyperemotional and no, let it

(01:06:59):
dictate, but learn.
Healthily deal with them.
And, and I think a lot of seeingthe rise of everything mental
health wise and, you know, all,all of these, you know, school
shootings that we're seeing,they all tie back to kind of
like mental illness and, andthese things.
And um, and so I think there'slike that, that message and that

(01:07:22):
you're sharing of how to, how todeal with these things and how
to move on and, and notnecessarily move on and forget,
but Yeah.
But move on and continuing tomove forward.

Well, everything that you just said is, is so
accurate and so true.
And you know, when you thinkabout, I, I can even give you a
quick story on what this lookslike in real time.
Cuz the truth is you're right,there's especially men, I think
men.
Much more so than women andthere's tons of data.
Ne neither one of us areneuroscientists or mm-hmm.
Clinical therapists or anythinglike that.

(01:07:52):
We both probably know a bunchand study that.
There's an enormous amount ofdata to back up everything you
just said that it Absolutely.
Mm-hmm.
There's an old commercial, Idon't know if you, you may be
too young.
This is the only time I'll saythat today.
There's this old commercial Framoil filters, and the, the tag
was, you can pay me now or youcan pay me later.
That was a famous old ad fromlike the seventies.

(01:08:15):
Yeah.
That's what happens.
Mm-hmm.
You will pay the billemotionally, and so the beauty
of this is that this is an areawhere we don't have to be stuck.
We can learn and we can grow init no matter what our past has
been.
And so I was very much like you,but you know, I've, this is an
area that you mature in overtime and circumstances when

(01:08:37):
you've engaged and you're thetype of person that's gonna do
that, right?
Mm-hmm.
And, and your listeners won't belistening to this unless they're
the type of person, cuz they'renot most people, yeah, they're
gonna learn to do this.
But one quick example, lastyear, you know, it's over three
years, which still isn't a longtime to lose a loved one.
But we're, we're on vacation.
We're at 4th of July weekend.
We're down in Florida, we're onthis little island.
My father-in-law has a boat,surround a boat.

(01:08:59):
I don't know if I mentioned thison here, I think I said it to
you before we got on, but mywife is Puerto Rican, so this is
the Puerto Rican side of thefamily.
So if, if you have no referencepoint for that, just know Puerto
Ricans know how to party.
So we're out on, we're out,we're in the, we're on the beach
and most of us are, you know,like waist deep.
In the water, either on a littleflotation device or in my case,

(01:09:21):
I'm just kind of bouncing.
Everybody's got their beverageof choice.
There's music blaring.
Mm-hmm.
Having a great time.
Yeah.
So I began to think aboutGabriel wasn't intentional.
You know, it just, you don'tneed a trigger, just whatever.
And as I began to think abouthim, I recognized that there was
just a sadness coming on me.
Mm-hmm.
Well, you have two choices,right.

(01:09:42):
You know, you can do the oldway, which is just suppress it.
Yeah.
Or you can deal with it.
And so what I recognized, andthis is where we have to be
intentional, but I recognizedwas there was so much fun going
on with everybody else thatnobody was paying attention to
just me.
Hmm.
So I literally bobbed myselfabout 20, 30 feet away from

(01:10:02):
where everybody.
And Riley, I let myself, Iwasn't, you know, sobbing and
making a scene or anything likethat.
Mm-hmm.
But tears streamed down my facefor probably 30, 40 minutes.
And I just thought about him.
I felt the emotions of sadness,of wishing he was there.
And then there came a point, andthis is how our emotions work
when, when we're functioningwell.

(01:10:24):
Mm-hmm.
Cuz you said it so well, thereis no good or bad emotion.
Emotions.
Just emotions.
You just gotta tell them what todo.
Right?
Yeah.
And so I experienced what I needto experience and then I knew,
okay, I needed that.
Now I need to exchange thissadness for, in this case, joy.
And I moved back over the water.
No even, nobody even knew whatwas happening.

(01:10:45):
Jumped in the back of the, oneof our boats cuz everybody had
started to eat and I exchangedit for joy.
Mm-hmm.
And literally just startedhaving a great time.
Now, one of the reasons why thisis so important when you're
talking about a man, and in mycase a husband with boys, I did
tell my family later.
What had happened.
Mm-hmm.
I, I let them know what Iexperienced that day because

(01:11:07):
we've gotta model this stuff.
We've gotta let our kids knowthat, like you said, it's not
about being this babbling idiotwho is constantly controlled by
their emotions, but that youlearn to mature and deal with
them in a healthy way for whatthe moment calls for.
Mm-hmm.
You know, if I was in aboardroom, then that'd been a

(01:11:29):
different story and I would'vehad to temporarily suppress it,
but then I would've needed toeither, whether it was later
that night or the next morningor whatever was appropriate as
soon as possible, I would needto allow myself to get in a safe
space and, and go back and, and,and, you know, process what I
need to process.
And that's what so many peoplejust don't do.

Yeah.
Yeah.
That's such an interesting storycuz I've, I've had similar
moments where, I'm at some sortof like social thing and you
know, sometimes I wanna bethere, sometimes I don't,
whatever.
And, uh, yeah, me too, man.
And, and there's certain thingswhere like, yeah, if you've had
kind of a rough day or a roughweek or something comes up in

(01:12:12):
conversation that just kind oftriggers you and you start to
feel, feel something come on andyou're like, you know, it's
almost like, uh, it's almostlike all of a sudden you're the
only sober one and everyone elseis like, you kind of are like,
just, it's just you in your mindand you're like, there's all
these things around me, butlike, it's just, I'm Yeah.
A hundred percent in here rightnow.
Yeah.
And I need to just step awayand, uh, whether that's, you

(01:12:35):
know, going to another room fora minute, you know, sometimes,
sometimes you're like, Hey, Igotta go to the bathroom.
Right.
Whatever it is to, yeah,absolutely.
Yeah.
Get a minute and uh, and kind oflike, deal with that.
And then sometimes it's like,you know, you come back and you
can reintegrate cuz you dealtwith it and then sometimes
you're like, you know what,maybe I'll leave a little early
tonight and uh, you know, dowhat I gotta do.

(01:12:56):
But, uh, Yeah, it's, it'sinteresting because I think a
lot of people, like you coulddeal with that a couple
different, a lot of differentways, right?
You can take that time and goand process or you can, you
know, a lot of those times thosesettings, you're like, Hey,
there's uh, any type of alcoholI want right nearby, you know,

(01:13:16):
and you, you could turn to thattoo, you know?
Right.
So, yeah.
Um, but it's interesting cuzyeah, I've, I've had similar
moments where I'm like, youknow, everything freezes and
you're like, you know what, I, Igotta go for a little bit.
And then you come back and a lotof times, yeah, sometimes, you
know, my wife will usuallynotice, she'll be like, Hey,
where were you?
And then everyone else, like,you know, most other people

(01:13:37):
like, have no idea.
You know, they're just, juststill going.
So, yeah.
It just, it's not a, yeah.
You made

me so laugh, man.
Cause I, I gotta share thisreally quick.
We don't have this t-shirtactually printed, but we've
joked about it so many timesthat my wife needs a t-shirt
that says when we're going to aparty.
Sorry, I was late.
I didn't really want to come.
We always joke about that.
Yeah.
But the truth is, you findyourself just, you know, like
you just described, you findyourself sometimes in certain
situations.

(01:14:04):
And that's another thing thathappened really through us
growing through and processingGabriel's death, is there are
times when we recognize we don'thave the capacity for whatever
it is.
Yeah.
Yep.
You know, I can be in front of alot of people and be totally
fine with it, but just like youdescribed, there's also times

(01:14:25):
when we need to give ourselvespermission to say, you know
what?
My tank just went dry for thissituation.
Yeah, yeah.
And I, and I need to just make acourageous decision for myself.
God bless you.
Have a great night.

You know?
Yep.
A hundred percent.
Yeah, and that's another kind ofawareness thing too, right on
like the introvert extrover.
Spectrum.
Right?
A lot of people think extrovertmeans you talk a lot.
It's like, no, no.
Extrovert means you get energyfrom being around people.
And introvert means you getenergy from, you know, being
kind of in solitude.
And I found that I'm kind of inthe middle, which is an

(01:14:59):
ambivert, right?
So I, I, if I spend too muchtime on either end, I feel
drained, right?
If I spend too much time alone,I start to get into a lower
energy.
If I spend too much timesocially, I get wiped out,
right?
Especially if I'm aroundextroverted.
People who talk a lot like that,that tends to wear me out after
a little while, right?

(01:15:19):
Or I go to a networking eventwhere you're Yeah.
Turned on mentally.
A hundred percent.
Or like when I used to coach atthe gym, right?
Like I, for that hour, I waslike 110% locked in, turned on.
And if I taught more, Twostraight classes.
Like I was, I was mentallyexhausted.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like my fu my futurebrother-in-law, he's a trainer
and uh, you know, he does alllike one-on-one small group

(01:15:41):
stuff and he does like, youknow, 50 sessions a week, you
know, he's crushed it.
But he's like, he can do that.
I'm like, man, just the thoughtof that exhausts me.
Like I couldn't do it.
Not like the physical part.
I could do run around everywhereand being in the gym all day.
I did that in the past.
But to do eight to 10, likeone-on-one sessions a day where
you're locked in, like I'vecouldn't do it.

(01:16:03):
You know?
And so it's just learning whoyou are, what works for you.
Coming back to thatself-awareness that we keep
talking about, you know, cuzYeah, like you said, if I've
been around people for a longtime, it's like, man, now I
gotta go and be social again.
When my tank is, is zapped,it's, you know, you're just
gonna go past.
And then you're gonna take moretime to bounce back.
And

you call that an ambivert?
Is that what you said?

Ambivert is where you're kind of in the middle,
right?
Like you're not really anintrovert, you're not really an
extrovert.
Like you need both sides.
That,

that's a new term for me.
So I learned something new fromyou today.
Dude, you just, you just gave melanguage for my own life.
There you go.
That must be what I am becauseman, I'm telling you, especially
if I'm an environment where I'vegiven all I can give and my
energy is depleting.
Mm-hmm.
I don't mess around anymore.
And my wife a lot like what youdescribed, my wife is a really

(01:16:54):
good, um, cuz it's usually mefirst.
She will once in a while, butit's usually me first and she'll
see it on me and she's like, areyou done?
I'm like, I'm done and I'm done.

Yeah.
Yeah.
Like there's certain, certain,like if I'm there and I'm having
a good time, like I'minteracting with everyone, I'm
contributing in theconversation, I'm listening
intently.
Like, you know, I'm, yeah.
But then like, it's prettyobvious when I'm like zoned out,
I'm.
I'm just not there anymore, youknow?
And Bradley gets left thebuilding.
Yeah, exactly.
Like, I, I can't fake it, youknow?

(01:17:25):
I used to fake it and now it'slike, you know, if I'm, if I'm
done, if I'm not into it, likeit's, it's pretty obvious.
Kinda obvious to people.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So, um, but yeah, I think it'sjust all, everything that we've
been talking about, it's justpattern recognition, right?
Yeah.
Getting better at recognizing,oh, this is, this is what's
coming, here's how we deal withit, and here's what works and,

(01:17:46):
and that kind of thing.
And that just takes time andthat takes, again, introspection
like we've been coming back to.
Um, and most people just aren'tgreat at recognizing their
patterns, I think.
Right?
Like, and it's another thingthat Tony Robbins says, he's
like, you know, he's like, I'mnot that smart.
I've just seen thousands andthousands and thousands of
people.
And when you see that much data,you start to pick up patterns

(01:18:09):
and it's just everything.
Is pattern recognition.
So, yeah, I agree man.
So that's where I think likejournaling, a lot of people find
journaling and meditation.
These things can be very usefulcuz then you can kind of analyze
all these things and create thatspace to do that.
So yeah,

absolutely.
It's something that kicks inactually the creative side of
your brain, and that's just thereality of it is more often than
not, most people don't putthemselves in a situation for
that part of your brain to evenkick in.

Yeah.
Yeah.
That's space.
So again, like you said, pay nowor pay later, right?
That's right.
Yeah.
So, uh, you know, real quicklygive me, gimme big, bold, brave
where exactly that came from.

Yeah.
So, so we're back to thatmorning of the accident and in
short what happened was is, youknow, I mean it was a plane.
And it was a 17 year old pilot,so obviously it was making news.
Mm-hmm.
Like, like you would think itwould.
Yeah.
So we had two different newsstations reach out to us the
morning of, and only one of'em,I actually took the call, which
was our N B C Dallas affiliate.

(01:19:11):
And you know, the r I'll say upfront, the rapport was very kind
very cautious.
Like considerate, cautious inthe way Yeah.
And very considerate in the wayshe had the conversation.
So I don't wanna paint it likeit, like it was something
different.
But she was asking me to do aninterview, you know, and I'm
like, hell no.
You know?
Mm-hmm.
There's no freaking way, youknow, we were a mess.
Yeah, right.

(01:19:32):
But, but now, you know whathappened on the couch that
morning before this callhappened.
And so what she ended up sayingat the end of the call, Bradley,
she said, well, listen, shegoes, I just, and she happened
to be a person of faith too,which would factor in just in
terms of us connecting on ahuman level.
Mm-hmm.
You know, but she said, listen,she goes, Just think about it.

(01:19:52):
There's still time today, but Ijust want you to understand this
is my assignment and so I, Ihave to do this story today.
Mm-hmm.
And if I do it without you, it'sgonna be a report on his death.
If you'll allow me and we can doit together, it can be a story
about his life.

(01:20:13):
And I think you can see thecorrelation there with what I
described earlier.
And so, yeah.
I didn't say yes.
I, you know, I'm, I was stillthinking in that moment, there's
just, I can't do it.
Yeah.
Hung up and we ended up having afamily meeting.
My other father-in-law fromFlorida was, was here already.
He'd gotten here pretty quickly.
And, uh, we ended up deciding asa family that, you know, it was
gonna be our.

(01:20:34):
Opportunity, if you will.
That's not really the rightword.
But, um, the first time we werefaced with, are we truly gonna
live by this life mentality or,or not?
You know, so we chose to do theinterview, we did it.
And, uh, I honestly, I don't,the whole thing's a blur.
I, I don't re remember anythingabout that particular process of
mm-hmm.
Putting together an interview.

(01:20:55):
But what happened is that night,I didn't know I had said it, but
I apparently at some point hadsaid Gabriel lived big, bold,
and brave.
Mm-hmm.
And what she did was she didn'tplay that part of the footage at
the end of the segment.
She ended up saying at the end,and Gabriel's parents encourage
you to live like Gabriel.

(01:21:15):
Big, bold, and brave.
Hmm.
And when I heard it back to me,I'm gonna use that word life
again.
There was, there was life.
And of course, I, I mean, itwould be a couple of years
before I'd even think aboutlaunching the company.
Big, bold, brave, writing thebook.
Big, bold, brave that therewasn't like, oh, yeah, now I
know what I'm gonna do with it.

(01:21:36):
It was just this personal familymantra that we used from time to
time.
It's like, let's live likeGabriel big, bold and brave.
And so it became a thing for us.
Yeah.
But ultimately, as, as mycapacity grew coming out of
that, I, I call the first yearthe shock and off age of
grieving simply because you're,you know, you're experiencing

(01:21:57):
for the first time a bunch offirst birthdays, holidays, that
kind of stuff.
No.
Yeah.
Um, but then eventually when Ifelt like I had the courage in
the capacity to launch out thename of the company, to me was a
no-brainer.
I was thrilled when I did asearch and found out that nobody
had that.
I couldn't believe it.
And then, uh, ultimately I wouldend up writing the book.
In, in the book.

(01:22:17):
I'm gonna point out to you, andI don't know if you're gonna
want to go anywhere with this.
We certainly don't have to, but,You know, COVID hit three months
after Gabriel passed away.
Hmm.
So we were dealing with all ofthat and the whole world was,
and why I wrote the book when Idid, which didn't start until,
you know, 2022 basically.

(01:22:38):
Uh, I was so sick and tired ofall of the fear being spewed
through media and people that,you know, almost seem to get off
on that kind of thing.
And, and just the hopelessnessthat so many people were feeling
that I just, I decided that I'm,it's time I'm gonna write this
book cuz it's not a book, it'snot a grieving book.

(01:23:01):
Although it will definitely helpsomebody that ever has to face
grieving, cuz it does containthe stuff I just talked to you
about.
But it's way more than that andit's really just, if you could
call it just a live philosophy,just like not most people, you
know?
Mm-hmm.
Of this clarion call to quitgiving into fear.
Quit listening to what everybodyelse is trying to tell you how
to think, how to feel, what todo, and take control of your

(01:23:23):
life and make some courageousdecisions that send you on a
trajectory that lead you to thelife that you've dreamed of.
And it doesn't mean you're gonnaachieve everything, right.
But you definitely never will ifyou don't step out and do it.
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.
That is so in alignment with thewhole philosophy of not most
people, it's kind of scaryalmost.

Yeah, yeah.
No, I read all your stuff andI'm like, dude, we're, I'm your
older brother.
I'm gonna say it that way.
Slightly, slightly olderbrother.

There we go.
Yeah, man, that's, uh, I dunnoif I have a whole lot to add to
that.
Like that was kind of just aperfect.
Sation, I feel like, ofeverything we've been talking
about.
But before we wrap things up,and I mean, this has been a, I
know we could probably talkanother couple hours easily.

Yeah.
There's a lot of life topics,right?
Yeah,

yeah.
Yeah.
Well, uh, we'll have to get toyour podcast, big bold, brave
podcast going at some point,right.
And then Absolutely.
Yeah.
And then do it from the otherside.
Yeah.
So that'd be a lot of fun.
Yeah, definitely.
But, uh, there's one questionthat I ask everyone who comes on
the show, and that is, what isyour definition of not most
people?
And I have a feeling I kindaknow what that answer's gonna
be,

but Yeah.
I mean, I almost feel like Ijust said it probably pretty
well than I I did.
Yep.
Maybe, maybe I need to just saywhat I just said so I don't say
it lesser than, but you know, Iju I just think ultimately at
the end of the day, it's justthat it's taking control of your
life.
Mm-hmm.
And quit two things.
Let's face it, because first wegotta stop listening to the

(01:24:51):
narrative that we've toldourselves.
We didn't really mm-hmm.
We, we implied that a lot, butwe didn't necessarily say that.
Point blank.
You've gotta decide what storyyou're gonna tell yourself, you
know?
And we even did that with, withGabriel and the pain, you know,
I, I called that giving our painand purpose.
What did I do?
Mm-hmm.
I didn't get rid of my pain.
I told my pain how to behave.
Right.
This is where, this is wherewe're gonna take you.

(01:25:12):
So it's, it's deciding that foryourself and then aligning
yourself with people that canhelp you fulfill that mission
and take an intentional steps tomake it happen.
No matter what fear, no matterwhat risks, no matter what comes
against you, that makes youthink you can't do it, you just
call bullshit, excuse me, andyou move on and you go for it.
Hmm.

I love it.
Yeah.
That whole not settling, goingfor it, being brave, being,
being bold, all that stuff isnot most people.
So, yeah.
Great answer.
And, uh, It's funny, I've had acouple podcast episodes that I

felt pressure on that one, man, I gotta get this
right.

Yeah, right.
That, that are, that have had tobe like, kind of rescheduled.
One of'em was actually with ourfriend Allison who introduced us
and Yeah.
Yeah.
It's funny cuz each time, likethe first time, uh, or like
Monday we like, we try to dothis.
For those of you listening, wetry to do this.
A couple days ago we had itscheduled, we got on internet
was not cooperating with us anduh, we rescheduled for today.

(01:26:11):
And it's just one of thosethings that kind of works out in
a weird way cuz like we talkedabout it like on Monday, like my
tank was towards the empty side,you know?
Yeah.
And uh, you know, I was stillgonna do things cuz we scheduled
it.
You know, today was a better dayfor it, and I think everything
kind of came out better.
So, um,

yeah, I think so too.
I I appreciate your patience onthat too.
Cause I think it was on my endand I'm just, I'm really glad we
do this.
I did this.
I, I thought it was gonna bereally great and mm-hmm.
And I really believe we had analignment, but man, it was, it
was awesome in Europe.
I just wanna say to yourlisteners, you are doing such an
amazing job in the way thatyou're leading people and, and,

(01:26:52):
um, the, the fact that you'rewilling to take those risks
yourself.
You know, you said you weren't apublic speaker, dude, it's hard
to fathom that talking to you,but I'm so grateful that you
just don't give into fear andyou do it anyway.
And I guarantee you, man, youare, you are putting rocket fuel
in people's tank.

(01:27:13):
Hmm.

Thank you.
That means a lot.
I appreciate that.
I really do.
And I say the same back to you,so thank you.
Uh, yeah.
So I know people have heard big,bold, brave, and, and all that
work and they find everythingthat you got going on.
Yeah.
Easiest way

to go to my website.
Big, bold, brave.us.
Now I know people are gonna go,what do you mean?
Isn't it us?
Yeah, I know that, but I chosethat domain on purpose.
I think collaboration is themost powerful thing on the
planet.
So big, bold, brave, uss Theycan get the book there, they can
check out my, you know, how tobring me in as a speaker,
whatever it is they wanna findout.
But I do wanna point out, causeI know you have an audience that

(01:27:50):
goes outside the us um, mostpeople are probably already
aware, but shipping is nuts.
So if you live outside the USyou can buy my book on Amazon or
anywhere it's available.
So you don't have to go to mywebsite, but especially if
you're outta the country, go togo to Amazon.

Okay, cool.
Good to know.
And, uh, yeah guys, I'm sureafter this episode you're gonna
want to go check out everythingClint's got going on.
We just talked for an hour andI'm, I'm like itching to go even
learn more so.
Man, this was, uh, this wasawesome.
Uh, I don't know how long we'vebeen going, but, uh, definitely
on the longer end episodes.

(01:28:25):
And it could have gone longer.
I haven't even looked.
Yeah, it's been a minute.
It's been a minute.
Yeah, for sure.
So, uh, that's always a goodsign.
That always means that the, theenergy is right and, and I
always say the episodes as longas it was meant to be, so, yeah,
I agree.
Yeah.
So, uh, man, thank you so muchfor coming on and looking
forward to, to staying in touchand working together.

Sounds great.
Me too, Bradley.
Thank you for having me on.

Of course.
Of course.
And thank you guys for tuning inagain, and like I said at the
beginning of the episode, uh, ifyou got value out of this,
which, if you're still listeningat this point, I know you did on
this one, and I know thatthere's also probably someone
you know who, you know, maybethey're going through a
transition time, maybe they'vesuffered a loss, they're looking
for direction, they'restruggling with the emotions,

(01:29:11):
whatever it might be.
There's a whole bunch of thingsin this episode that could help
them.
So please take the, Time tothink of that person.
Shoot in this episode.
Say, Hey, I was thinking of you.
You know, check this out.
I think you, you know, might getsomething out of it.
So that's all I I ask again, andthen all kinds of exciting stuff
going on.
Cool.
So check that out.

(01:29:31):
And other than that, guys, wewill see you in the next one.
Thank you for tuning in.
And always remember, don't bemost people.

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