Adventures in the Arctic: Finding ‘Paradise Creek’ With Explorer David Scott

Pack an extra warm sweater because we’re headed to the Arctic Circle with David Scott, a multifaceted artist, writer, and close friend of our host, Scott “Sourdough” Power. In today’s episode, the two pals reminisce about their daring year spent living off-grid in a simple cabin near Churchill, Manitoba. This remarkable experience is detailed in David’s new book, Paradise Creek: A True Story of Adventure and Survival, where he recounts their unforgettable true story of stepping from a bush plane onto a frozen lake and struggling to find their cabin, just three miles away, after being lost for six bitterly cold days. David reflects on how the lessons they learned during this time shaped their diverging creative paths and contributed to their personal growth.

Listeners are treated to a glimpse inside their longstanding friendship, as Scott and David think back to the thrilling days of building their cabin and navigating through the frigid cold, with only the stars as their compass. They share stories of hunting moose for winter meat and the joys and hardships of living in a wilderness log cabin, all while eliciting chuckles about their initial excitement and somewhat naive optimism while gearing up for the expedition. Throughout the conversation, they delve into the various artistic endeavors that emerged from their experiences, from writing poetry to crafting furniture, emphasizing the importance of creative expression and how it intertwines with their survival story.

The episode also touches on the challenges of living in isolation, the beauty of the northern lights, and the thrill of hunting and fishing in the wild. With light-hearted banter and playful humor, the duo shares anecdotes that range from hilarious to harrowing, making for an entertaining listen that highlights the resilience of the human spirit and captures the essence of their year at Paradise Creek. 

Paradise Creek: A True Story of Adventure and Survival is available on Amazon.com. For more information, please visit https://notrealart.com/paradise-creek

Episode Transcript

(00:01):
Greetings and salutations, mycreative brothers and sisters.
Welcome to Not Real Art, thepodcast where we talk to the world's
most creative people.
I am your host.
Faithful, trusty, loyal,tireless, relentless host.
Sourdough coming at you fromCrew West Studio in Los Angeles.
Thanks for being here, people.
Man, do we have a great showfor you today.
The one and only David RyanScott is here.
And David is amultidisciplinary artist, musician,

(00:24):
poet, woodworker, leatherworker, motion designer, author.
And he's here to talk abouthis book Paradise Creek, which is
available on Amazon.com beforewe get into this, of course, I want
to thank our fiscal sponsor, Arterial.
Arterial.org because of theirsponsorship, you can support the
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(00:44):
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Go to notrealart.com and checkout all the good, healthy stuff we've
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You're going to discoveramazing artists and artworks.

(01:05):
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You're going to discover somany great artists and [e-mail]
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Okay?
As I said, we have the one andonly David Ryan Scott in the house
here today.
This is a special one for me.
David and I met way back in college.

(01:28):
We ended up embarking on aArctic expedition where we lived
in just south of the ArcticCircle for a year, about 120 miles
away from the polar bearcapital of the world, Churchill,
Manitoba.
This is where Sourdough was born.
You know me as Sourdough.
Well, this is.
This is where David Ryan Scottwas there when Sourdough was born.

(01:50):
And he and I were living offthe grid like Grizzly Adams, with
no electricity, plumbing,mail, phones, trails, roads, nothing.
It was completely rustic.
We had to carry guns toprotect ourselves because there were
polar bears and black bears.
We saw the temperatures gofrom 68 below zero in January to
98 degrees Fahrenheit in August.

(02:11):
Very extreme environment.
Extreme in so many ways.
The bugs were insane.
The northern lights were insane.
The fishing was amazing.
I mean, I can't.
I could go on and on and Davidand I were there for a year and we
didn't kill each other, obviously.
I mean, we pulled the gun oneach other a couple times, you know,
because that's going to happen.
But we managed to talk itthrough and not kill each other.

(02:32):
And he's still my friend afterall these years, which is a miracle
because you guys know me andyou know I'm super annoying.
So the fact that he's still myfriend, it's a lovely testament to
his patience.
And me and I think we just hadan incredible partnership and we
had this grand adventure asyoung men in college.
And he's here today to talkabout his book, Paradise Creek.

(02:54):
He's here to talk about ourjourney that year, 1991.
He's here to talk about Sourdough.
So without further ado, I wantto get into this really special conversation
I had today with very, verydear friend, partner in crime.
And when I say we almost diedtogether a few times, I'm not lying.
It's absolutely true.

(03:14):
And he even saved my life one time.
And I'll be forever in his debt.
Although sometimes I think hewish he let me die.
But I'm thrilled he's here.
And I can't wait to get intothis and I can't wait to share this
special episode with you guys.
So without further ado, let'sget into this with the one and only
David Ryan Scott.

(03:42):
David Ryan Scott, welcome toNot Real Art.
Pleasure to be here.
Is it appropriate that I useyour middle name?
Hey, whatever.
Whatever.
Feels good.
You've been called worse, right?
Yes, I have, many times.
Well, David Ryan Scott, I'm sograteful to have you on the show,
my friend.
You and I have a.
Have a long history, somemight say sordid history, which we

(04:07):
will get into.
But I'm thrilled that you tooktime to sit down today and talk about
a lot of really wonderfulthings that you're involved in.
I mean, you know, one of thethings that's been to me, so inspiring
over the years having knownyou is just your natural, raw artistic

(04:28):
talent, ability, whether it'splaying piano, writing, music, poetry,
woodworking, leather craft,outdoor craft.
There's just so many thingsthat you do so well.
And you know the old saying,you know, jack of all trades, master
of none.
Well, you're.
You're sort of like jack ofall trades, master of most, as far

(04:50):
as I'm concerned.
And.
And yet now you have also anew book that you've written or sort
of a second edition that'sbeen out, I think, for A while now.
Paradise Creek available onAmazon.com so we have a lot to cover,
we have a lot to talk about.
But putting first thingsfirst, I mean, when you think about
your family and you thinkabout your artistic talent, you know,

(05:12):
who do you think that comes from?
Do you think you get yourartistic ability from your mom, from
your dad?
A little bit of both.
Was it grandma and grandpa,like the Scott, the Scott clan, who
I also happen to know pretty well.
They're all pretty damntalented, whether it's music or singing
or some other kind of creative expression.
So where does all that talentcome from?
Well, first of all, thank youfor all of that, Scott.

(05:35):
That was paid me well.
You paid me well.
Yeah, I, I, I appreciate that.
And to, and, and it's a, it's,it's always great to sit down and
talk with you.
As far as, as far as wheresome of that comes from.
You know, I, I would say mostof that probably could be attributed
to my dad, just given he, his curiosity.

(05:56):
Even at his age, currently at 83.
I mean he's making 3D modelson the computer.
He's, you know, he's, he'sdoing, he and I both just built a,
a kayak here.
Not.
He is constantly full ofcuriosity and loves solving little
puzzles and loves to play evenat this age.

(06:17):
And a lot of that really, Alot of that with me, definitely.
Yeah.
And you're right, I meanthat's one of the things that I,
and I've had the privilege andhonor of knowing your dad as long
as I've known you.
And that's one of the thingsthat's always just blown me away
about him.
He just is just a lifelong student.

(06:37):
He's so damn cur and is alwaysinto something new and interesting.
It seems like I talked to himor have seen him over the years and
you just mentioned havingrecently built a kayak with him.
But like that's a story that Iremember that was always so poignant
to me.
You talked about when you wereyoung, a young man, maybe junior
high, high school orsomething, and you came home saying,

(06:59):
dad, I want to get a kayak.
You know, can we go maybeinvestigate, you know, where we could
buy one or what have you.
And he said, well, I tell youwhat, let's do one better.
And he takes you to thelibrary, gets up, checks out a book
on how to build a kayak.
And then you and your dadproceeded to build this kayak as
a father son endeavor.

(07:21):
And that kayak, I believe isstill in use today.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's so.
It's so weird.
I mean, you know.
Yeah, we.
We go.
I wanted to buy a fiberglasskayak, which was like two grand.
And I was like, in eighth grade.
Grade, I didn't have that kindof money.
And.
And my dad said, well, youknow, let's.
Let's build one.
And we went to the.
The Internet of the day, whichis the library, and amazingly found

(07:45):
a book on how to build.
How to build these kayaks.
And.
And yeah, I think that thatprobably was really the start of
my.
My kind of love of buildingthings, you know, and just.
And just having thataccomplishment afterwards.
And you could look at it andsay, hey, man, I.
This is something I did withmy hands.
And I never lost the.

(08:06):
The love of that.
That feeling, you know?
Yes, yes.
Well, but.
But that also gets to theimportance of having those people
in your life, right, that sortof, you know, show you different
things.
And obviously the parents onthe front lines of teaching their
kids, raising their kids and, And.
And showing their kids theworld and what have you.
But you also had, as I recall,an incredible teacher in high school.

(08:29):
I think it was yourwoodworking class.
Of course.
I don't even think they havewoodworking classes in high school
anymore, do.
Yeah, right.
I remember you talking about your.
Your woodworking teacher andhow he was so instrumental in.
In giving you, I don't know,curiosity and interest and.
And skills around buildingthings and working with wood and

(08:50):
maybe.
So when you think about yourpassion for woodworking, does.
Does it go back to high school?
But who taught you your.
Your kind of love for.
For that creative endeavor,working with wood?
I think.
I think the woodworkingteacher that I had, he was inspirational
in that he was a great teacher.
I don't know if he necessarilyreally inspired me to.

(09:13):
To do a lot of woodworking,but he definitely was great at teaching
some of the fundamentals andalso just teaching in general about
everything.
So.
So that had a huge impact onme, really.
I think it was our experienceat the.
At the cabin that really kindof solidified this love of building.
And in part because we kind ofdidn't really have a choice.

(09:37):
There were things that we hadto have and that we needed and that
really, I think, inspired alot of this drive to build things,
you know, moving forward.
Yeah, well, that.
And we'll get into that for sure.
But, you know, but when I metyou, as I recall, when we were about
19.
18.
19, about just 10 short years ago.
Yeah, right, right, exactly.

(10:00):
You know, you were alreadybuilding Forts in the woods and out
there exploring and huntingand, you know, and really, you know,
understanding, you know,nature in a way as a.
In.
In wilderness, as a place tofind resources and survive, and not
just survive, but thrive.
I mean, you were also, ofcourse, finding arrowheads and.

(10:21):
And making arrowheads and justdoing different things.
If I feel like even before we.
We met, and that was prior toour grand adventure, which we'll
get into, but it feels like,you know, for whatever reason, you
were that kid.
You were that kid growing upin the woods, you know, just charmed
and entranced and.
And curious and creative outthere, you know, building things

(10:43):
and doing things in the woods.
Yeah, definitely.
You know, it's.
You make a good point that I'mleaving out a pretty important teacher,
and that was the outdoors in general.
Just.
It was so inspirational.
You know, when I was muchyounger, my got rid of our tv and
so I had to find other outlets to.
To kind of entertain myself.
And of course, this was backin the day when pretty much all kids

(11:06):
that we knew that were.
That are our age, they wereall feral wild animals, you know,
that would run around untilwell after dark with no supervision.
I mean, I was out there, youknow, learning how to make different
fires when I was, you know,12, 12 years old, you know, so it's
like, you know, all of.
I'd come home covered in mud,smelling like wood smoke, and my

(11:27):
mom wouldn't even bat an eye.
She'd roll her eyes because I was.
She'd have to help clean upall my hose.
Hose me down.
Yeah, but.
But, yeah, so that was a.
That was another hugeinspiration just in terms of, you
know, building, exploring, youknow, the curiosity of, you know,
what can I make from this ordo with this?

(11:49):
And, yeah, that definitely had a.
And another major impact on mylove of building and making things,
certainly.
Yeah.
And just, you know, I've.
I've shared some of your storywith people over the years, and,
you know, one of the thingsthat I always loved about sort of
the way you grew up and youand I didn't grow up too far from

(12:09):
each other.
I mean, we grew up, what, 10miles away from each other, give
or take, you know, very different.
Chesterton, Indiana, andPortage, Indiana, you know, in some
ways, you know, different.
Close, but differentcommunities in many ways.
You know, one of the coolthings about the way you grew up,
as I recall, you grew up sortof on the edge of these dense, you
know, woods and forests whereyou could go and explore.

(12:32):
And as.
As you did that you would find arrowheads.
And for me, as I think aboutthe, you know, you as.
As I know you now, but thenalso as the kid that I kind of imagined
you to be, to find thesearrowheads, it was like magic.
It must have, like these.
These portals back to a.
To a time connecting you to.

(12:52):
To a tradition, to a culture,to a history that was in time, you
know, obviously primitive and ancient.
But to be finding thesearrowheads and then collecting these
arrowheads, I mean, what anincredible way to grow up as a young
boy and for your imaginationand your curiosity and just, you
know, so damn inspiring.
Talk about that a little bit.

(13:13):
I mean, how did finding thosearrowheads in the woods as a kid
running around, how did thatimpact you, do you think?
You know, the.
The very first one of thosethat I ever found, the first thing
that struck me as I pickedthat up was the last person that
touched this most likely was anative person, you know, and it fascinated
me.

(13:33):
It kind of.
Kind of took me off guard.
And I just began readingeverything I could read about these
people, be it, you know, fromthe area where I grew up or the plains
or wherever.
And realizing, trying tolearn, you know, how these people
survived in really prettyharsh conditions and how they made
these tools and.

(13:54):
And then also discoveringthere was a deeper connection that
they had to the.
To the wilderness, to theoutdoors, almost a spiritual connection.
And I started to connect withthat on my own personal level, I
guess, and it reallytransformed the way I viewed the
outdoors and how I interactedwith the outdoors, and it made the

(14:14):
outdoors a much more.
In part.
Yeah.
And, you know, I think thatjust says so much about you as a
human, because I think a lotof kids would have just sort of missed
all of that.
They would have, you know,seen the arrowhead, picked up the
arrowhead.
Cool.
I found an arrowhead and sortof, you know, went on about their
day.
Yeah, but, you know, you beingyou, the artist that you are and

(14:35):
the thinker that you are, youknow, sort of looking for those deeper
meanings and those deeperlayer, you know, just is.
Is a testament to you.
And then.
And then that just began, itseems like this love for the woods,
love for wilderness, love fornature, love for the out of doors.
And of course, you know, whileyou're doing this, you're presumably
playing piano and, you know,building kayaks with your dad and,

(14:58):
you know, just all thesewonderful creative endeavors.
And then you and I meet.
One Saturday morning, as Irecall, you walked into a retail
store that I was working at.
It was a Camping, sort ofcamping store, outdoor, you know,
outfitter, canoes, backpacks, tents.
A place called Indiana CampSupply there in Hobart, Indiana.

(15:21):
I was working there on aSaturday afternoon.
And in you walk with your,with, as I recall, your mom, your
dad and your future wife, Nicole.
Yep, yep.
And here you come in, youknow, looking to buy gear because
you're about to embark on aStudent Conservation association
project where you're going togo to the Grand Tetons and build

(15:42):
trails in the backcountry andyou're there to buy some gear and,
and you and I start chatting.
And I happened to be at thattime preparing to leave for a canoe
trip in northern Canada downthe Churchill river towards Hudson
Bay, right near Churchill,Manitoba, the polar bear capital
of the world.
And you and I, I rememberbeing so envious of your trip and

(16:04):
where you were going, talkingto you about that.
And then, and then, and thenI, if I recall, you were envious
of, of sort of my trip that Iwas going on.
And so we were both sort of inawe of each other.
And then, you know, you boughtyour stuff, you went on your trip.
I went on my trip, I don'tknow, a month or six weeks later,
eight weeks later, next thingI know, you're back and you start

(16:26):
working at the store.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
And I was part time, you werefull time, and we became friends
and we got to know each otherand really just seemed to, I think
you respect each other fordifferent reasons.
And, and maybe what you didn'tknow was that this trip that I went
on, this canoe trip, kind ofchanged my life in so many ways because

(16:51):
up until that point, I wasreally not an outdoors guy.
I had not been on a propercamping trip.
I was much more interested indancing in downtown Chicago and bar
hopping and sneaking intoblues bars and doing, you know, all
manner of shenanigans.
And then when I traveled tothis remote wilderness place in northern
Manitoba near the polar bearcapital of the world, and I had to

(17:15):
carry a gun because there werebears and I had to drench myself
in bug dope because of themillions of mosquitoes and I had
to fight sleep because of themidnight sun.
And then I had to fly in on aplane and damn near die because the
pilot doesn't know how to tieknots and news starts to slip off

(17:35):
the plane and then I have totake that canoe and canoe out 120
miles to the church, toChurchill, the polar bear capital
of the world.
And it changed my life.
It blew my mind in the Mostamazing way.
And of course, a core part ofthat trip was visiting this log cabin
that a gentleman by the nameof William Forgy, Md.

(17:58):
Dr. Forgy MD.
Backpacker magazine called himthe father of wilderness medicine.
He of course, became a dear,dear, dear friend of ours over the
last four decades.
But at that time we didn'tknow Doc that well.
Doc was on the trip that I was on.
We go to this cabin that hehad built in 1975.

(18:18):
One of the guys on thatparticular trip was a guy by the
name of James Ross, who hadlived in that cabin for a few months
in 1979.
And I'm there as this 19 yearold kid hearing these stories, watching
what's going on and I just, mybrain is exploding, my mind is being
blown and, and, and I justthink to myself, man, I want to live,

(18:39):
I want to live here.
I wonder what it would be liketo live here for a whole year.
And of course, you're so farnorth and winters are brutal or 40,
50, 60 below zero.
The summers can be quite warmand beautiful, but very buggy with
mosquitoes.
See nothing of black bears andpolar bears and all kinds of other
things.
But boy, oh boy, did I want togo there for a year and test my mettle

(19:00):
and try to see if I could, youknow, love it and what it could teach
me.
But I didn't want to go alone.
I didn't want to go alone.
I needed to find somebody ascrazy as I was ever to do something
like that.
And I was wringing my handsabout who this rare individual might
be.
And it was Dr. Forgy who said,you know, I think you should maybe

(19:24):
call that David Scott guy whostarted working at the Indiana Camp
supply store.
Maybe he, maybe I think hemight be interested in going.
And if memory serves, I calledyou and, you know, gave you a quick
elevator pitch and you saidyou were in and the rest is history.
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.

(19:44):
Yeah.
And you know, that's, that'sone of the things, it still never
ceases to amaze me that youwere so willing to dive into that
with, as you mentioned, youknow, having, having, you know, that
was kind of, that trip wasyour first real kind of outdoor experience.
And wanting to go from that toa full year there was, Was amazing

(20:06):
to me.
And I think that's one of thereasons that, that you and I worked
as well as we did, because youalways approach things with that
level of enthusiasm, thatlevel of excitement, even if it's
something as crazy as goingand living at the cabin for A year.
The ability to kind of diveinto that that way was, was.

(20:26):
Was pretty and, and not, notjust that.
To dive into it and to comeout of it with still such a passion
for it and such a love for itand all of the necessary.
You know, they don't call yousourdough for nothing.
And it's, it's an amazingtestament to be able to, to pull
something like that off.
It's amazing that both of uswere able to come out of it the way

(20:47):
that we.
The way that we did.
But yeah, in thatcircumstance, for sure.
Well, it was.
I mean, we gotta unpack a lotof that.
I mean, one of the reasons whywe can look back on that year with
such great love and affect andappreciation, gratitude is because
we did have each other.
We were a fantastic team.

(21:08):
I think we complimented eachother very well.
I feel like after a grandadventure like that where truly your
life is on the line and wedamn near died a couple of times,
you come out of something likethat either, you know, probably hating
each other or, or loving eachother and, you know, you and I are
still friends after all these years.
So it's such a testament, Ithink, who we are as people and,

(21:31):
and, and to who, you know, howwe are to each other.
And so, so there's just.
It was sort of a, you know,like a marriage in many ways.
I mean, you should.
We.
We got it right.
You know, it was a verycomplimentary thing.
And.
But let's, let's take a couplesteps back and, and paint this picture
for people.
Because, by the way, the, the.

(21:52):
What we're talking about is,is really the crux of your book,
Paradise Creek, you know,because after we, you know, lived
in Northern Canada in 1991, wecame back, we went on the lecture
circuit, we spoke atuniversities and colleges and elementary
schools and high schoolsaround the country.

(22:13):
We were on national television.
We landed a couple book contracts.
I wrote a sourdough cookbook.
You wrote Paradise Creek,which is an amazing compilation of
stories, events, adventures,things that happened while we were
there, such as hunting andkilling our moose, among other things.
So now Paradise Creek is.

(22:35):
You've rewritten it, you've re.
Released it, new cover, newwriting, that kind of thing.
It's available on Amazon.comParadise Creek by David Ryan Scott.
Please go buy it, people.
But, but, but let's take itback because it's one thing to just
say, oh, we lived in northernCanada, but let's really help people
understand what we're talking about.
So about 500 miles south ofthe Arctic Circle is a place called

(23:00):
Churchill, Manitoba, on Hudson Bay.
And Churchill is known among,for many reasons, but the primary
reason it's famous is becauseit's the polar bear capital of the
world.
And the wildlife there is incredible.
Beluga whales, you know, swimthroughout the bay and the mouth
of the R, where the Churchillriver meets the Hudson Bay.

(23:21):
The Shedd Aquarium in Chicago,famously, when they opened their
beluga whale exhibition,famously went to Churchill and got
captured the whales out ofHudson Bay.
I happened to be there that summer.
That was the August of 89 trip.
But this.
So you get to Churchill, whichis, as I said, in Manitoba, you know,
just south of the ArcticCircle, very far north of Winnipeg.

(23:44):
And so it's a two, two daytrain trip, two nights on a train,
or you can fly up there.
But then when you get toChurchill, to get to this cabin,
this log cabin, you have tocharter a bush plane.
There's no way to drive in,there's no way to hike in.
You have to charter a bushplane to fly you.
In the summer, it's on floatsand it lands on a lake or river,

(24:06):
drops you off.
Or in the winter, you have tofly in a plane on skis and it'll
land on that frozen lake orfrozen river and drop you off at
40, 50 below zero.
And so we wanted to go live inthis cabin for one year.
The cabin was built in 1975.
It was a rustic log cabin,plastic rustic log cabin.
No amenities, no plumbing, no electricity.

(24:29):
All I had was, it had a woodstove, it had an outhouse.
There was no mail, there wasno, no connection to civilized world.
Is completely isolated,completely remote.
And because of that isolation,of course it's very dangerous because
not just are you, you know,concerned about wild animals like
black bears or polar bears orwhat have you, but you fall down,

(24:52):
you break your ankle, you'reon your own.
You, you chop in firewood, youput an ax in your leg accidentally,
and you're on your own.
So there's like a huge medicalkind of component to this.
Very dangerous in that way.
And so you and I, we meet, wedecide we want to go on this trip
for a year.
But we had to train for twoyears, a year and a half anyway.

(25:14):
We trained not just outdoorkind of survival and outdoor camping.
And we went on multiple canoetrips in the boundary Waters because,
of course, you and I had tofigure out if we actually liked each
other.
Yeah, right.
But then we had to train, wehad to get medical training.
And first very, you know, Very serious.
First aid training, medicaltraining, how to set a bone, how

(25:34):
to.
How to suture, stitch up alaceration with stitches, you know,
all of these things.
And.
And this.
So.
So we.
We train and we train and wetrain and we end up leaving.
January of 1991.
We land on a frozen lake, 33degrees below zero.
1pm in the afternoon, andwe've got seven minutes to, you know,

(25:58):
get our 1500 pounds of gearoff this plane, because otherwise
the plane's engine will freezeat these temperatures.
And just like that, the planetakes off, and we're standing alone,
500 miles south of the Arctic Circle.
The nearest town, 120 miles away.
No radio, no communication,just you, me, a bunch of gear, a

(26:18):
couple of guns, and a cabinabout two miles away that we're going
to try to hike to.
And that was just the beginning.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
I mean, you know, there's acouple things here.
First off, like that I.
That morning, you know, thepilot called us and said, hey, we've
got to wait for it to warm upto 30 below before he's going to

(26:39):
fly.
And when we got to theairport, they're thawing out the
hydraulics on the skis of theplane with, like, a John Deere heater.
So that gives you an idea ofjust how cold that is.
And neither one of us had everexperienced temperatures like that,
so we just had every bit ofwinter gear on that you could.
That we had.
Just like, it was almost comical.

(26:59):
And.
Yeah, just an incrediblypowerful place.
And the remoteness of it isalmost hard to.
To even fathom until you'restanding there.
You realize when you get offof that plane and that plane flies
away, just how far away youare from anything, it's pretty powerful.
Well, they.
They say, you know, it'spowerful for many reasons.

(27:22):
And one of the reasons is youstart to realize that, oh, my God,
I can scream my head off forhelp and no one's gonna hear me.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.
Like.
Like we are truly on our own.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And once that plane drops youoff, like, you.
You realize as they're flyingaway, like, if I'd.
For.
If there's any important thingthat I'd forgotten, I'm screwed.

(27:44):
I mean, like, I'm just.
That's it.
You know, I mean, certainly webelieved that there were some items
at the cabin, and we flew overthe cabin prior to landing to make
sure that it lookedstructurally sound or as structurally
sound as we could see from the air.
But, yeah, I mean, if there'sSome critical element that you forgot,
then you're in big trouble.

(28:06):
Well, and also, I mean there'syes, yes, yes and yes, you know,
because of our training andincredible partners and supporters
and patrons like Dr. WilliamForgy and ICS books, I mean we, and
ICS books at the time, forpeople who don't know, was a publishing
company, small presspublishing company that specialized
in outdoor recreation.
So they published titles aboutmountaineering, rock climbing, rafting,

(28:30):
canoeing, wilderness survival,wilderness medicine, all these things.
And so our trip was this trip,this expedition that we were embarking
on, it was obviously a fairlyexpensive endeavor that was sponsored
by this publishing company forthe rights to our journals, to our
photos.
They, this company underwrotethis trip of ours and this expedition.

(28:50):
And because they were thisincredible company with all these
experts, we were trained bysome of the, you know, best people
in the world, you know, interms of some of these things.
So we were so fortunate to beable to be trained by so many of
these people.
And so, and because we hadbeen supported by these incredible
people, you know, we had, wehad lists of gear and we double,

(29:13):
double and triple checkedthese lists of gear so we didn't
forget, get anything important.
And, and you know, and largelywe brought everything.
But of course, as you and Iboth know, there were some few things
that got left behind, youknow, I don't know, like key, key
pieces of stove piping orwhatever the case might be that,
you know, might have proved catastrophic.
But, but, but also, you know,we had, we had spent hours and, well,

(29:38):
months and months and monthstraining, going over lists, going
over maps, going over all this stuff.
And when the day came to flyinto this cabin, we had the option
of landing on the frozen riverin front of this cabin at 33 degrees
below zero.
In fact, that's what the pilot said.
So just want me to land you infront of the cabin.
But here we are, two 19 yearold kids, you know, basically full

(30:02):
of piss and vinegar who hadbeen, you know, trained by these
experts.
We really felt prepared.
We really felt like we hadworld in our hands.
And we said no, no, no, no,no, that's too easy, let's not land,
don't land us on that river infront of the cabin, please.
Land us on that frozen laketwo miles away and we're going to

(30:22):
hike in across this wildernessfor two miles and we're going to
discover this cabin becausethat's, you know, we're going to
earn this.
You know, we're going to,we're going to make this count.
And knowing what we know now,Dave Scott would we've done that
again?
Well, you know, it's a doubleedged sword because my, my initial
reaction is hell no, there'sno way we would, there's no way we

(30:44):
would do that because wesuffered pretty dramatically for
that first week, which we'llget into.
But like, but at the sametime, I think that suffering was
the ideal way for us to start.
It put things into perspectiveand it gave us a newfound respect
certainly for the power of,for the power of that country for

(31:04):
sure.
So yeah, it's, it's adifficult one.
I like there's a part of methat says no, I wouldn't, I wouldn't
want to do that again.
I certainly wouldn't want togo through what we went through again.
But I think for the sake ofthe trip itself, it was definitely
a really good foundation to,for us to A, because I think it made
our relationship strongerbecause we nearly died a couple of

(31:26):
times during that first week.
And B, it gave us a newfoundrespect for the, for the land and
for the environment.
So I think it was really kindof a beneficial thing for the sake
of the trip.
But yeah, I think overall I'dsay no, I wouldn't, wouldn't want
to go through that again.
Well, by the way, your bookwouldn't be as interesting if.
Right, right, right, exactly.
So, so just so people knowwhat the heck we're talking about.

(31:49):
So, so you know that oldsaying about, you know, don't assume
it makes an ass out of you andme, right?
And, and boy, I think we bothassumed that, okay, we're gonna,
we're gonna, we're gonna getdropped off at this cabin.
We've been well trained, we'vegot our snowshoes.
We're just gonna, you know,because again, there's no trails.
We have to use a compass andwe're shooting a bearing.

(32:09):
And we've determined thebearing based on our calculations
and pouring over our mapsback, back at home in a warm room.
And the old saying about themap is not the land, right?
But we show up at the spot andwe're like, oh yeah, we know this.
We got this.
We've been planning this.
It's fine.
We're just going to shoot the bearing.
We're going to hike acrossthis swamp.
It's 33 degrees below zero andwe'll be there in just a couple of

(32:32):
hours.
You know, little did werealize, of course, that it was so
damn cold and there was somuch snow that our snowshoes would
not keep us on top of the snowlike snowshoes are meant to do.
We would be sinking down intothe snow and ultimately having to
wade through the snow with ourgear and for two miles.

(32:55):
And what we thought would takeus a couple of hours ended up taking
us almost eight hours to gotwo miles.
And of course, over thoseeight hours, it's getting colder
and colder and darker and darker.
And by the time we finally gotto where we were going, wanted to
go, which was a river calledthe Little Beaver river, we were

(33:16):
exhausted, we were spent.
And it's so damn cold.
And we get to the river and wethink the cabin is going to be right
there when we arrive, becausewe're shooting the right bearing
and we get there and the cabinis nowhere to be found.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
It's not there.

(33:36):
And by the way, we know it's.
We just flew over it a fewhours ago.
We saw it from the plane.
We saw it with our.
With our four good eyes.
And here we are now, and wecan't find it.
We're freezing our asses off.
It's probably 50 below at this time.
And we are just befuddled,bewildered, confused.
Where the hell is this thing?

(33:58):
Yeah.
And, you know, keep in mind,too, like, you know, earlier that
morning when we sat down forbreakfast, you're not eating breakfast.
The nerves and the excitementand the adrenaline, you're not eating
a very full meal.
Throughout the course of thishike, of course, we brought water
along with us.
The food that we brought allrequired cooking, which we didn't

(34:18):
think was a big concernbecause we were going to be at the
cabin that night.
And despite trying to keepthat water insulated, halfway through
that hike, that water wasfrozen solid.
So now we've.
We've barely eaten, we're nothydrating very much, and we've just
put out, like, an incredibleamount of energy trying to make this

(34:39):
hike.
And as you said, it's gettingcolder and colder, and we're searching
up and down the bank of thisriver, trying to find this place.
And we looked.
So we've hiked for eighthours, and now we've searched for
another two.
And suddenly we come to therealization that, like, we've gotta.
Something's gotta give.
We gotta do something, becauseclearly we're not meant to be finding

(35:01):
this cabin this night.
It was one of the mostmaddening, if not the most maddening
night of my life because itwas such a mystery.
It was such a mystery.
We knew it was right there.
And where and why weren't wefinding it?
We were so cold, we were soexhausted, we were so confused.
And yet at the same time, wealso thankfully had the presence

(35:24):
of mind, to your point, whichis like, okay, you know what?
We got to sleep.
We've got to figure out a wayto sleep and rest up so that maybe
tomorrow when the sun comesup, you know, it'll be right here
in front of us and.
And you know, we'll just findit easily because we were exhausted.
I mean, it was.
We were just kind of punchdrunk as.
As someone might say, amongother things.

(35:46):
And.
But of course.
But of course, assuming doesmake an ass out of you and me because
we assumed, because we assumedwe would be at the cabin that night,
we decided to only bring oursleeping bags and some food.
We did not pack a tent with uson that particular trek.
The irony being, of course,that we had several tents back at
Landing lake with our 1500pounds of gear.

(36:08):
And so now we are here in asituation where we have to figure
out a way to bivouac.
We have to build some kind ofsnow shelter, some kind of emergency
kind of shelter at.
We would later find out thatthat night got down to 68 below zero.
So it's 68 below zero.
And you and I are, you know,in the middle of.
Literally in the middle ofnowhere, exhausted after hours and

(36:31):
hours and hours of hiking andfrigid temperatures.
And now here we are in asituation where we have to bivouac
and I was completely useless.
And thank God you were therebecause you saved our lives that
night, man.
You built a Quincy, a frameshelter for us, and you did it so
efficiently, so effectively,and we essentially threw our bags

(36:53):
in that thing and we, as ourtraining taught us to do, we climbed
in those bags together, wehugged and shared body heat for a.
What is the longest night ofmy life?
Because, of course, literally,you're up so far north, it's basically
dark for, you know, what, 18hours, 20 hours a day.
And here we are just trying tosurvive this bitter cold night, waiting

(37:18):
for the sun to come back up sothat we either find the cabin or
have to hike back to the gearto get our stuff, whatever it's going
to be.
Of course we ended up notseeing the cabin, so we did hike
back to the gear that.
That next morning.
But thank you for saving ourlives, David Ryan Scott.
I appreciate the.
I appreciate that, but I thinkit was a combined effort.

(37:38):
I mean, you know, for example,that, that, that shelter was comically
bad.
It wouldn't have Saved really anyone.
But I think it was the mental.
Mental activity of taking someaction to try to do something that
was really important.
And I do remember just to givepeople an idea of how cold it is.
I do recall, you know, therewere two things that you could hear.

(38:00):
The silence up there is just deafening.
It's.
It's.
It's almost annoying to earsthat are used to sound, but there
were two sounds that you could hear.
You could hear trees poppingthroughout the forest because it,
you know, the, the SAP expandsand the trees.
Some of the trees will.
Will pop and break.
And then you could also hearthe sound of your breath as you exhaled.
It sounded like.

(38:20):
Like, like when you spray aWindex bottle, you know, it would
hiss.
So your breath is justcrystallizing like the second it
hits the.
Hits the air.
So, yeah, to say that was thelongest night that.
I think that's a pretty.
I think that's a pretty good.
I think that hits the mark for sure.
Yeah, it's definitely ranks up there.
You know, what, 40 yearslater, I, I can't imagine a night

(38:42):
that was more torturous eventhan that night because, my God,
we were.
We were scared.
I mean, you know, I was.
Anyway, I'll speak to him, youknow, like, I know I was scared.
It was like, you know, butit's interesting because when I look,
when I think back on thatnight, I.
It's the confusion that I remember.
Like, so, like the confusion of.

(39:03):
Of where is this cabin?
We know that it's here, andwhy aren't we finding it?
We did everything right.
We shot the right bearing, welanded on the right lake, and, and
we were just continuing conf.
Was so confusing, you know,what, what, you know, why.
What happened?
And we would later find out,of course, that if you're shooting
bearing using a compass from.
And you've figured thatbearing based on point A and point

(39:26):
B, you know, you better be inpoint A to get to point B, right?
And when you're.
When we were looking at thosemaps, you know, plotting and planning
our trip, you know, that lakeon that map is like a half an inch
big, you know, on the map, right?
And so the lake becomes pointA, and so you're just shooting the
bearing right on the map.

(39:48):
But then when you actuallyland on that lake, that lake is,
oh, I don't know, a mile longor longer and a half a mile wide
or whatever it is.
And so we landed on that lake,wherever the heck we could land on
that lake.
I mean it.
In those conditions and Thosetemperatures, the pilot just lands
wherever the pilot can land.
And so we started shooting ourbearing from where the pilot landed

(40:10):
and which was more the kind ofcenter of the lake, the middle of
the lake.
And turns out we needed toreally kind of be at that north end
of the lake to start shootingour bearing from, from, from point
A.
And we were a couple hundredyards kind of off our mark in terms
of starting our trek.
But that 200 yards ends upmaking quite a difference when you're.

(40:31):
You're trekking over a coupleof miles.
So we punched out on thatriver a mile and a half or so off
our mark.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
It's a small detail, but kindof important.
But all that planning.
Yeah, the gods and the devilsare in the details and, you know,
and that's it.

(40:52):
But it's.
It's just one of those thingsthat you putting your life in jeopardy
can be such an innocent mistake.
I mean, you know, you justsort of are doing your best and there's
just some little detail that,that you overlook that could make
some kind of catastrophic difference.
And thankfully for us, wemanaged to survive that close call

(41:13):
and on and on.
I mean, there your book isfilled with all kinds of stories.
And we could talk for an hourjust about this first night and everything
we did and then how the nextthree days unfolded because, of course,
we discovered I had thirddegree frostbite.
We're trying to find where theheck this cabin was.
The first three days wereharrowing, but we were there for

(41:33):
a whole year after.
Yeah, I mean, this was.
It was so funny that, thatfirst you mentioned the frustration.
And it's like, for me, it wasthe frustration and confusion with
a good amount of anger,obviously, in there.
But then on top of that,thinking to myself, we've planned
for this for two years.

(41:54):
I've kind of been planning forthis without knowing it for my whole
life.
And here it is, like the firstday we're gonna die up here.
I'm like, what the hell'sgoing on?
Like, this is.
Well, this can't be right.
You know, it just.
This can't be happening.
But again, I think, as Imentioned earlier, I think it was
that, that first week was a.
It was a real good.

(42:14):
It was a.
It was a good way to startbecause it humbled both of us.
I think significantly, anytimewe would pass by that bivouac afterward,
and that bivouac actually was,as of 2014, was.
You could still see remnantsof it, but anytime we pass by that,
it was Almost like we wouldget quiet or we would whisper because
you realize like, that thatshould have been a grave.

(42:36):
Like, it.
It really was that close.
And we had the added benefit,too, of being 19.
You know, you're.
You're invincible when you're 19.
You know, if I.
If that would have happenednowadays, I'd be like, well, it.
I guess I'm dead.
Yeah, I'm just gonna sit hereand freeze to death.
Just don't have it in me.
Yeah, exactly.
I'm too tired.
Let's go to sleep.

(42:58):
But, you know, but had we, youknow, and that's the other fascinating
thing, too.
Had we.
Had we been so unlucky to diethat night, we kind of just would
have vanished because welikely would have frozen to death
in the bivouac.
Our bodies would have likelybeen devoured by some kind of wildlife,
whether it be a wolf or a bearor whatever the case might be.

(43:21):
The.
Of course, the winter wouldhave eventually thawed into spring
and summer, and all of thegear and all the stuff that we had
stored at Landing Lake wouldhave likely sank to the bottom of
Landing Lake.
Basically, there'd be no traceleft of us.
And so people would have cometo the cabin to maybe pick us up
or to visit, and one wouldhave ever been there.

(43:43):
And.
And they just would havewondered what the hell happened to
Dave and Scott, because, youknow, it was just vanished off the
planet.
Which, by the way, would havebeen a cool way to go.
But.
But so there's just so many stories.
This is just one story.
I mean, we could talk foranother hour about hunting the moose,
and we knew we needed meat forthe winter, and getting a moose would

(44:06):
solve that problem.
You know, up until that point,we were hunting small game.
Rabbits or grouse or ptarmiganor certainly fishing.
And we got some.
Some geese and, you know, whathave you.
But that was like one meal ata time, you know, kind of a thing.
But getting a moose would haveset us up for all winter and just
tracking, hunting the moose,skinning, preparing the meat, butchering

(44:33):
the meat, smoking the meat.
You know, all of that.
I mean, that's a whole podcastunto itself.
Say nothing of our decision tobuild another cabin two miles away
as a contingency plan.
And.
And that building that cabin,of course, would be probably three

(44:55):
hours of conversation.
But all of these stories arein your book, Paradise Creek, and
all anybody needs to do isread your book, buy your book, and
they're gonna love it becauseall these stories are in there.
And by the way, Your poetry'sin there.
You wrote so many incrediblepoems while we were there.
And, you know, one of thethings that I so appreciated about
our relationship and ourfriendship, and I know that we've

(45:17):
really talked about it inthese terms before, I don't think
we have.
But, you know, this is an artspodcast, right?
So, like, let's put it incontext for a minute, right?
I think one of the reasons whyyou and I got along so well was that
at our core, in our heart ofheart, so to speak, we're artists
and we're truth seekers, andwe are trying to, you know, do things

(45:41):
with our life and our time andour energy that are meaningful, that
hopefully put some beauty inthe world and maybe give people,
other people joy or giveourselves joy or what have you.
And, you know, we didn't thinkabout this adventure or this expedition
within the context of artmaking or, or an artistic expression.

(46:03):
But one of the things thatI've come to sort of think about
over the years is sort oflike, you know, what did I.
Did I do this because I'm anartist at my heart?
In my heart.
I mean, was this about somekind of creative expression, some
kind of artistic expression?
I mean, if I had known thenwhat I know now, I think I would
have absolutely have said,this is an artwork, this is performance

(46:28):
art.
We're gonna go.
We're gonna time travel back ahundred years, which is basically
what it was.
We time traveled back to asimpler time in a remote, primitive
area, and we not justsurvived, we thrived, but we were
creative the whole time.
We were making things, doingthings, creating things, whether

(46:49):
it' building a cabin orwriting poems or making sourdough
bread or what have you.
And in recent, in recentyears, I've.
I've started to think aboutOur experience in 19, 1991 within
this context of artistic expression.
And, and, and was this an artwork?
Was this a cre.
An artistic expression?

(47:10):
Well, it's interesting that you.
That you mentioned that,because one of the things that I
recall quite vividly, one ofthe things that I learned from you
was you always.
You always had thisfascination with product design,
like, how can I make thisthing better?
What can we do to make thisthing better?
And when we first got to thecabin, you know, everything that
was in there was essentiallycame from previous trips.

(47:32):
Anybody who goes and spendsany length of time there, they kind
of make their ownmodifications and do what they want.
And so, for example, we builtnew shelves, and the previous shelves,
they had posts that ran to the ground.
And the inside of this cabinis 12 by 12.
So real estate is valuable.
And we got.
We tore all those out and wehad these beautiful hanging shelves.

(47:54):
We built this great table forwriting upstairs that, you know,
pivoted on hinges and could bestored away.
We just took these clever approaches.
Same thing with the cabin itself.
When we built the cabin, wedecided to put a diagonal floor in
there for no reason other thanthe fact that it just looked really
cool.
I mean, and no one would everthink of really doing that.

(48:15):
I don't.
You know, most of them are just.
The floor as a design featureis kind of an afterthought in cabins.
It's just a thing, you know,but we saw it as like, oh, let's
make this look cool.
Let's.
What can we do to make this better?
And.
And it was a lesson that.
That sticks with me, that I. Istill think about, you know, and
it was something that you.
You talked about it witheverything that you interacted with.

(48:36):
You're like, what could I.
You know, how could this thingbe better?
How could it.
You know, how could it be.
It work better?
And I think it's a. I thinkthat that in of itself is a very
artistic expression.
Well, thanks for that.
And.
And.
But I mean, you and I are verysimilar in that.
In that way.
And I mean, you.
You.
I mean, you are, you know, inmany ways even a better example because

(48:56):
you were constantly buildingthings, creating things that improve
the quality of our life.
I'll never forget and.
And always appreciate the dayyou built the swing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The swing we built was your idea.
It was your idea.
And.
And you said, you know, we just.
We should build a swing here.

(49:16):
And.
And we.
And we did.
And we built a swing on theedge of the tree line overlooking
the river.
And we could sit on that swingand talk or play your guitar or just
hang out on the swingoverlooking this pristine river,
eagles flying by, whatever thecase might be.
And.
But that was.

(49:36):
That was an example of a.
Of us being a good team together.
But I mean, it was also having those.
That vision, that idea of,like, oh, this.
This little innovation, thislittle design, this little product,
this little build is going toreally improve the quality of our
lives.
And they're just, again, somany examples of that.
And I am so grateful that.

(49:59):
That I was so committed.
Is it as annoying as it wasfor you in so many contexts?
Yeah.
One of the things that I'm sograteful I was committed to was carrying
my camera and taking photos.
Oh, my God.
Yeah.
And.
And Documenting that year.
And, and, and you know, wehave so many incredible photos.
Yes, we have videos and whathave you too, but really the, the

(50:22):
mainstay was the 35 millimeterslide film that we have.
And of course, you know, wehave thousands of slides now from
that trip.
And, and, and I just wasdogged in my, in my commitment to
carrying that camera.
I, I am grateful to this daybecause not only did you take, not

(50:44):
only did you very accuratelyrecord this entire thing, but the
photos themselves are phenomenal.
And like you said, we've got acouple thousand of them and I could
always tell when lookingthrough them who was holding the
camera.
And it's clear, like all of myshots, for some reason I, I felt
like I wanted to do vertical shots.
And it's really annoying to me.

(51:05):
Drives me crazy when I'mtrying to edit or do anything with
them.
Of course now with all the AIstuff, you could just expand it,
but it's not real, so.
Right.
So, yeah, all of.
I'm so grateful that not onlydid you take those, but you took
incredible, incredible photos.
You could see some of those Iactually put together.
I don't even know if Imentioned this to you.

(51:26):
I put together a site called Paradise.
Creek Cabin Breaking on theNot Relar podcast.
Yeah.
So if you, if you check thatout, you can click through just kind
of some, you know, eat the.
I.
There's like four sections in there.
They kind of COVID the foursections of the book and you can
kind of click through visualrepresentations of each one of those
sections.

(51:46):
And pretty much all of those.
All of those photos, I think were.
Were taken by you.
And of course I need to.
Now that I'm thinking aboutit, I need to go back in there and
actually give appropriatecredit where credit is due.
I just threw them up there, so.
No, no, no, no, don't come at me.
Well, because I mean, thetruth of the matter is, I mean, you,
you, you off.

(52:06):
You also took so many greatphotos, you know, was.
You know, it doesn't even matter.
Attribution doesn't matter.
That.
What matters is that we hadthe camera and we were committed
to taking those photos.
And that is the archive, youknow, that is the evidence and the
proof.
Because of course, you know, a.

(52:28):
And we'd be relying on our memory.
And even with them, our memory fails.
And it's interesting how youtend to remember things and, and
maybe not always accurately,but then of course now, you know,
40 years on or whatever it is,35 years plus, you know, nature has
had its Way.
And, you know, back in, what,22,007, 2008, 2009, a massive wildfire

(52:53):
burned everything down thereand the cabins that we built, the
cabin that you and I built,the cabin that Dr. Forgy built in
1975, and millions andmillions and millions of acres just
burned to the ground downthere, up there.
Because, of course, that's theway of nature.
You know, lightning strikesand fires start, and nature reclaims

(53:14):
itself.
And I think that was one ofthe things that maybe we.
I'm speaking for myself, I wasnot really appreciative of necessarily,
because when we were there in1991, it had probably been 100 years
since that place had burned.
Burned.
And so we were.
We were in this very lush timeof beauty, and it was just this full,
you know, wild place.
And when we went back in 2014to kind of assess the damage, it

(53:40):
was a.
It was a barren wasteland.
Then after the fire.
Yeah, I mean, it looked like.
In some places, it looked like.
Like an atomic bomb had gone off.
I mean, just areas, like highbluffs where you normally couldn't
see anything because it's sodense with trees.
Just the trees are just gone,you know, and, you know, even around
the cabin, I mean, luckily, Iguess, for better or worse, a lot

(54:03):
of the.
A lot of the trees are stillstanding, but they're just.
They're just.
They're just sticks, basically.
They're just.
They're cooked.
Well, and remember, speakingof cooked, I mean, remember the trees,
like.
Like.
Like the side of the tree thatface the cabin burned off, but then
the other side was fine.
Like, there were trees thatwere half burned.
Right.
Because the.
Facing.

(54:23):
The cabin.
Facing side of the tree justburned off.
And then the other.
The back half just seemed tobe fine.
Yeah, yeah.
But then there are all thetrees riddled with bullet holes.
Yeah, I was gonna say all the.
Bullets, all the ammo justwas, like, firing, you know, everywhere.
Yeah, it must have been.
I'm sure the outhouse burnedlike an oil well.

(54:44):
And all of the ammunition andfuel, we had gallons of kerosene
and white gas.
And I mean, it must have been a.
Must have been a prettyimpressive site.
It was so hot, in fact, thatwe found the stove door.
This is a solid cast ironstove door, and there was a huge
dent in that stove door, whichmeans that it clearly, it heated

(55:06):
up enough to become malleable,and something fell on it and it dented
it.
I mean, that's how hot thatfire was.
It must have been just, like,getting crazy A crazy inferno.
Crazy inferno.
And just that whole part ofthat land, of course, Canada, as
we speak, is burning right now crazily.
I mean, wildfires in the.

(55:27):
Certainly in the day and ageof a kind of a global drought, climate
change situation, thesewildfires are more pronounced than
ever.
But wildfires have beenhappening forever.
And that part of Manitobaburned quite significantly.
070809 and we lost everything.
But we were able to go back,you and I, in 2014, to sort of assess

(55:50):
the damage.
You know, we have these photos.
Speaking of photos, we havephotos of you and I standing in front
of the cabin we built in 1991,after we built it.
We have a photo of you and I,I believe, in 2000, where we are
standing in front of the cabinwe built in 1991, and we're 30 years

(56:15):
old standing in front of this cabin.
And then we have a photo ofyou and I from 2014 standing in that
same spot that has been burnedto the ground with no more cabin.
Yeah.
And it's sort of this amazingkind of series of photographs of
this, like, cycle of life ofthis wild place.

(56:35):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
It's a 2014 trip.
I mean, aside from theemotional challenges of it, just,
you know, seeing these placesthat, you know, are so important
to your makeup, seeing thosethings gone, it's gutting.
But.
But obviously, you know, goingback up there when you're much older,
you know, creeping up on 50 atthat point in time, you realize you're

(56:58):
not 19 anymore.
It was.
It was a.
It was a tough one.
That was, if I remember right.
I mean, it was brutal.
It was the brutal.
It was a brutal.
It was brutal on so manylevels, and it might have even been
as brutal.
It was certainly a differentkind of brutality, but.
But.
But it was certainly as brutal in.
Is that first day in 1991 at,you know, 30, 40, 50 below zero.

(57:22):
Obviously it was summertime.
It was much.
In 2014, when it was muchwarmer in the summer.
But the.
The terrain, the waterfall,record rainfall, the river was raging.
We couldn't canoe the river.
We had to portage way more,10, maybe 20 times more than we might
have imagined.
As I recall, we lost,collectively, we lost over 20 pounds

(57:44):
in the first five days becausewe were portaging hundreds of pounds
of gear and a big canoe overmiles and miles and miles.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, wemade that.
We made the decision at thatpoint to or 2014 to fly way upstream
and paddle down to the cabin.
Actually, this was my.
One of my grand ideas.

(58:05):
I'm like, yeah, this is.
This is what we should do.
It's going to be great.
You know, it's going to be amazing.
And.
And we did.
And yeah, it was.
It was painful, for sure.
Although I do miss being able to.
To essentially e. You want toeat as much as you want to eat, and
you're going to burn it offin, you know, you're a matter of.
Hours starvation at thatpoint, because.

(58:27):
Yeah, right, right, exactly.
Can't eat enough calories.
Yeah.
From what you're burning.
And yes.
I mean, again, just the 2014trip we went on, it deserves its
own book and own podcast, but,you know, just, you know, we've scratched
the surface today, partner.
I mean, we have scratched thesurface today because there are so

(58:49):
many stor.
Within the stories with thelayers and dimensions and facets
to, you know, this epic tripthat shaped both of our lives forever.
You know, emotionally,spiritually, physically, you know,
the scars are real.
Both physical scars andemotional scars.

(59:10):
Yep.
But I'll tell you, speakingfor myself, you know, it taught me
lessons.
Living in the wilderness nearthe Arctic Circle with you for a
year in 1991 gave me lifelessons that serve me to this day.
And whether it's a globalpandemic or whether my city that
I live in Los Angeles isburning to the ground as it did last

(59:32):
January, you know, whateverlife throws at me, I feel better
prepared because of thelessons that we learn.
Yeah, I couldn't agree more.
I think coming out of that, itdefinitely, from a.
From my perspective, it gaveme a lot of.
A lot of confidence and a lotof just.

(59:53):
Yeah, confidence in.
In what I was able to do orhow I was able to handle certain
situations.
Like whenever things getreally bad, you know, sometimes I
will reflect on that firstnight and think, well, yeah, this
is.
This is doable.
I'm not too worried about thisbecause I made it through that.
I made it through that firstnight in that first week, and.
And of course, circumstancesare always different, but it's definitely

(01:00:16):
a big confidence builder, youknow, to be able to handle some of
that stuff.
Just the mosquitoes alone.
Yeah.
Just the mosquitoes alone willteach you patience in a way that
nothing else can.
And then, you know, yearslater, we were honored by being accepted
into the Explorers Club.

(01:00:37):
How cool is that?
Yeah, it's amazing.
I mean, you know, especiallywhen you think of some of the names
that are associated with that club.
You know, all of the great,the firsts, the fastest, the farthest,
the highest, all of thoserecords, those people are all in
the Explorers Club.
You know, it's a pretty.
Pretty amazing group ofpeople, for sure.

(01:00:59):
Yes.
We're in.
People like to talk aboutfraternities or sororities that they
were in in college.
I mean, I didn't do any ofthat shit, and you didn't either.
But the fraternity we're in isthe Explorer Club, and.
And we're there with folkslike Ernest Shackleton and Neil Armstrong
and Teddy Roosevelt and.
And those guys get to claimthat they're part of a group with

(01:01:21):
David Ryan Scott and ScottSourdough Power, so.
That's right.
We're classing up the jointover there.
Exactly.
That's how we do it.
That's how we do it.
Well, partner, I'll tell you what.
You and I, as we know, wecould do this for hours and hours.
Before we wrap up, though, Iwant to.
I want to just.
Just congratulate you on allof the amazing work you've been doing

(01:01:45):
recently.
You know, you really are aRenaissance man, sort of a Swiss
army knife of creativity,whether it's writing your book or
working with your clientsdoing, you know, motion graphics
and animation, you know,whether it's playing music or writing
poetry or whether you're inthe shop building furniture or making
leather good goods.

(01:02:06):
And what I love about you,you're such an artist because you
don't.
You don't care about makingmoney on any of these things.
Yeah, yeah.
You just love the doing andthe making.
And you.
And like so many artists,you're such a perfectionist.
You know, your OCD type Anature can't help but force you to.

(01:02:26):
To make at such a level of precision.
But when I see the thingsyou're doing, whether it's a wood
piece or a leather piece orwhatever, just the level of craftsmanship
and precision and excellence,whether it's the materials you choose
or the hand stitching or the.
Whatever it is, the love youput into it is just so obvious.
And the care and the attentionand the, the level of excellence

(01:02:49):
and perfection, it just is soobvious to me.
And all these various works.
So kudos to you.
What, what are you working onright now?
Is anything.
You got a project in the shopright now?
You know, I'm doing some.
I'm doing a little bit.
Bit of woodworking.
I've been trying to kind ofvideo some of the woodworking stuff
that I've been doing.
And it.
I have mixed feelings about itonly because I've come to realize

(01:03:12):
that I'm no longer making a thing.
I'm making a Video.
And it's frustrating to mebecause it's like I just want to
build, but at the same time,there's things that I'm doing that
I feel like, you know, I, it'snot, I don't mistake this for me
trying to be a content creator.
It's just I.
There's certain things that Iwant to put out there.
Yes.
That I think would benefitother people that are doing the same

(01:03:34):
thing.
It's I.
Most of the kind of more indepth woodworking or leather working
things that I picked up.
I've learned almost all fromwatching videos like that.
So.
Yeah, that's kind of what I'mdoing right now, trying to build
this lamp and video it.
It's very painful andfrustrating because you're really

(01:03:58):
making a video, you know,you're focusing on the shots, trying
to get, get things right.
Right.
And I'm, I'm not even tryingto get like, too nerdy or too.
Yeah.
Overly involved in it, buteven just trying to get the basics
down.
It's, it's a lot of, A lot of work.
It's a different.
Yeah, I mean, I, I totally get that.
I mean, because, you know,it's sort of, you know, I guess two

(01:04:20):
parts of the brain or twodifferent kinds of creative exercises.
It's like, you know, you'retrying to make art, I. E. Your leather
piece or the furniture or lampor whatever it.
Which is.
Obviously requires very, youknow, a high level of focus and attention.
And then all of a suddenyou're now then having to pause that
and think about your angles orwhat have you.

(01:04:42):
It's hard to find your flowand your rhythm.
Right.
When you're exactly betweenthose two.
Yeah, it's, it's, yeah, it'sthat flow that is so much.
That's the thing that youstrive for.
Like when you forget to eat.
Yeah.
Right.
Then you know, you're, thenyou know you've hit the sweet spot.
Yeah.
And, and, and, and so havingto break that constantly and change
where the camera is or it's,it's, it's annoying as hell, but

(01:05:05):
that.
I don't know, maybe.
Maybe I'll, maybe I'll crack it.
You'll crack it.
I mean, you always do.
You know, the one thing youdidn't crack though was when you
decided back in 1991 at thecabin that you wanted to make a potter's
wheel.
We did figure that.
You never did.
No, I, I gave it, I gave itthe old college try.

(01:05:28):
Definitely.
It's tricky without, like,things like an axle and bearings.
It's a little difficult tomake something smoothly spin around,
but, yeah, it was.
But why did you want to do that?
Because you found the mostamazing decomposing feldspar on the
riverbank.
You had this incredible clay.
Oh, my God, I want to shapethis clay.

(01:05:49):
I need a potter's wheel.
But of course, you ended upmaking a few vases anyway, even without
it.
So that's just the kind ofartist you are.
Yeah.
I appreciate that, Scott DavidRyan Scott.
You are a man among men.
You are a gentleman and ascholar, and you make me a better
person.
Thank you so much for being my friend.
Thank you.
After all these years, you.
If anybody had reason to kickme to the curb, it would be you.

(01:06:13):
And yet somehow you managed to.
To still be my friend.
I'm so grateful to call you my partner.
You stood up at my wedding.
I stood up in yours.
And let's.
Let's.
Let's stand up in each other'ssecond weddings.
Okay?
Yeah, sounds good.
Just don't tell.
Just don't tell Nicole.
Tell our wives.
All right, partner.

(01:06:33):
Well, you have a beautifulday, and thank you for coming on
and playing.
Podcast with me was absolutelymy pleasure.
I love nothing more thantalking to you and especially talking
to you about our sharedexperience up in up in Canada.
Foreign.

(01:06:55):
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(01:07:19):
Thanks again for listening toNot Real Art.
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