(Not So) Deep Sh*t on Simulation Theory (Part 2)

We had a bit of a break there, this episode should have come out in late August, but we're back with the second part of our discussion on Simulation Theory.

What if the seemingly small inconsistencies in our memories hint at a reality much more complex than we ever imagined? Join us as we challenge the boundaries of perception and reality, starting with the intriguing Mandela Effect. We explore instances like the collective misremembering of Nelson Mandela's fate and the puzzling case of the Sinbad genie movie, "Shazam." These discrepancies lead us to question whether our memories are mere flaws or if they suggest the existence of parallel realities or even a simulated universe.

Through captivating discussions, we ponder if the very fabric of our existence is shaped by the mind's intricate dance between memory and emotion. With references to the Natalie Holloway case and religious memory feats like the Quran's memorization, we examine how suggestibility and perception intertwine. Our conversation spans philosophical and scientific realms, from non-linear time influenced by gravity to subconscious actions preceding conscious awareness, inviting you to rethink the nature of free will and the potential for simulation theory to explain déjà vu, glitches, and more.

As we conclude, we venture into the world of dreams and consciousness, drawing parallels between lucid dreaming and simulation theory. We reflect on the fleeting nature of dreams and their potential role in our brain's rebooting process, contemplating whether our reality is as concrete as it seems. With insights from quantum physics and anecdotes of past life memories, we challenge materialism's hold on our perception of reality, questioning if indeed, life is a series of repeated simulations with unknown outcomes.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'm Chris, I'm Steve and we're talking about some
deep shit, and we're back totalk about some more deep shit.

(00:31):
How's it going, steve?
Hey, how's it going, chris?
Good, we're going to pick upour conversation where we left
off.
And simulation theory yeah, Ilove this topic.
It's so mind-blowing.
It is mind-blowing.
So if you missed our lastepisode, go listen to that.
First, because we kind of setthe stage for simulation theory
and what's it about and someconcepts of it.

(00:53):
And now it's interesting.
Let's look at some of like theweirdness, the things that
people talk about, that kind ofsupport simulation theory.
So first up is the Mandelaeffect.

Speaker 2 (01:07):
Yes, so different people have different thoughts
on it, but explain what it isChris.

Speaker 1 (01:14):
Okay, so the Mandela effect, broadly speaking, is
when different people have adifferent recollection of
reality as it occurred, and ofcourse, oftentimes this is just
discounted as faulty memories.

Speaker 2 (01:28):
And the Mandela effect is supposed to be
evidence of a simulation theory.

Speaker 1 (01:35):
Or a possible evidence of something that we
learned in a simulation orsomething right, right, and it's
named that way because NelsonMandela.
Some people have a very strongmemory and again it's a memory,
and it's a memory that theycannot support with established
fact, because anytime theygoogle it, their memory is that
nelson mandela died in prison insouth africa, when the reality

(02:01):
is in our world that NelsonMandela did not die and he got
out and he later becamepresident of South Africa.
But there are people who sayquite like strongly and say no,
no, no, no.
I remember them announcing hedied and they're confused as to

(02:23):
why reality doesn't match upwith their recollection.
And now that's been kind ofdubbed the Mandela effect.
What are some other Mandelaeffects?
Fruit loops as a Mandela effect, some people say it's spelled a
certain way, right.
Yes, some people have a memoryof it being F-R-O-O-T and some

(02:49):
people have a memory of it beingF-r-o-o-t and some people have
a memory of it being f-r-u-i-twhat is fruit loops?

Speaker 2 (02:52):
now can you look at a fruit?
I think it's spelt fruit, likeregular fruit.

Speaker 1 (02:54):
That's what I remembered, but I don't you know
.
It's interesting, I I ate fruitloops a a lot.
That was my cereal.

Speaker 2 (03:03):
Oh, wait a minute.

Speaker 1 (03:04):
No, it's.

Speaker 2 (03:05):
F-R-O-O-T Two.

Speaker 1 (03:07):
O's.
Yes, I ate Froot Loops a lotand honestly I don't.

Speaker 2 (03:11):
I can't say I know, I don't remember.
I thought it was.

Speaker 1 (03:14):
Yeah, you know, and what's interesting is memory is
very much tied to emotion.
Memory is very much tied toemotion.
You're more likely to remembersomething that you had an
emotional attachment to asopposed to something that you
didn't really care about in oneway or another.
So I think that's a part of itis when something happened where

(03:37):
people are like no, I have astrong memory.
Actually, I have one that Idon't know if it's a common one
or not.
Do you remember the NatalieHolloway situation with Aruba?
That happened some years back.

Speaker 2 (03:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (03:51):
So Jorhan Vandersloot or something like that was the
name of the kid who was involvedin that, and she went missing
in Aruba.
Oh, that scumbag.
I have a memory and I can'texplain it of when I was at my
job and at my job I didn'talways have a ton to do so I'd
be like cruising the internet alot.
Okay, right, and I remembercoming across an article and

(04:14):
coming across a series ofarticles about how he had gone
to jail in, I don't know, peruor something like that.

Speaker 2 (04:20):
Yeah, some other country.

Speaker 1 (04:21):
Because he had committed another crime Right,
and I remember like clearlyseeing reports that he or
something like that because hehad committed another crime
right, and I remember likeclearly seeing reports that he
had gotten stabbed and had diedin that prison and I.
the reason why it sticks with meis because I remember the
feeling of, on one hand, beinglike you know he deserved it,
you know for what his role inthat seemed like, and and

(04:42):
another thing I was like, ah,it's kind of a bummer, though,
because then now the mother isnever going to really know what
happened to, you know to, theparents are never going to
really know what happened,because the last person who
could have told them is now dead.
And I remember that feeling, andI remember being like, kind of
like, you know, torn betweenbeing happy about it and being
kind of like that's a a bummer.

(05:02):
And then, of course, I put itout of my head and moved on, and
not too long ago, there werethese articles that popped up
about hey, johan van der Slootis getting out of jail and he's
like he's done talk, you knowhe's talked now and filled in
some of the blanks supposedlyabout what happened.
And I can't shake that feelingbecause I remember the feeling.

(05:23):
And shake that feeling becauseI remember the feeling, yep, and
it's, it's really strong in myhead, like I kind of remember
the whole situation.
Really.
I remember coming across thearticle.
I remember googling it somemore and finding out you know
more about it and determiningthat it was true, and being
bummed out, like I said, andfeeling bad.
You know, kind of like that's akind of a good that he's gone,

(05:46):
bummer, that you know thathappened, and the parent, and
then moving on my life and kindof putting in the back seat and
then years later to suddenlylike he's alive.
It's a similar thing.
So the way they describe theidea of the mandela effect is
are you remembering the samereality as someone else?

(06:07):
Because that go back to theidea of the simulation theory.
Right, so many players.
You have to have multipleservers and it's not uncommon in
these multiplayer games to moveservers for various
technological reasons.
You know sometimes they have tomove servers because of, you
know, um, you know, space andmemory concerns.

(06:29):
Sometimes there's variousreasons why you might be playing
on a server one day and playingon a different server and
generally these servers are.
The game world is identical oneach of these servers, so you
don't know that you're on adifferent server or at least
enough is similar that anychanges were in the past and led
to the same place.

(06:49):
It's that idea that um multipleevents could happen on
different time streams, butbecause they're irrelevant
events, because they're not thatimportant, like a good example.
like you get up one morning andyou're going to decide whether
to have eggs or have pancakes,right, that choice in the scheme

(07:12):
of the universe is kind ofirrelevant.
Whether you choose to have eggsor pancakes on that particular
morning is irrelevant.
So if there were a world whereyou picked eggs and then there
were another world where youpicked pancakes, and at some
point you jumped worlds from theone where you picked eggs to
the one where you pickedpancakes, but that happened a

(07:32):
week ago, it doesn't matter,right Like it's in the past now.
So whether or not you pickedone or the other, you could have
picked either and you couldstill be at the same place now.
You could have picked eitherand you could still be at the
same place now.
And it's that idea thatsometimes there's different time
streams where somethinghappened on one server that

(07:54):
didn't happen on this server.
So on one server Mandela died inprison, on another server, the
way events worked out, he gotout of prison and became
president.
So if you were on the one serverat that time and you heard
about it, and then years passedand at some point in your
gameplay you log off the gameevery night as you go into dream

(08:16):
mode, right, and then you comeback to the, let's say, the real
world and you log back on andit puts you on a different
server.
And now you find out yearslater no, no, nelson mandela,
he's president, he was presidentof south africa.
It's confusing to you, right,but you'd never find out that
you had eggs for breakfastinstead of pancakes weeks ago,

(08:37):
like there'd be.
No, it doesn't matter in thepast.
So it's only those choices thatmatter when people suddenly
realize it's just an interestingway of coming about it, like
I'm not in the same time streamas I was when I had this memory.
And of course, the Mandelaeffect is also just, you know,
kind's memories are veryinfluenced by and you know this

(09:07):
right, people's memories can beinfluenced by questioning in
certain ways.
right, you can, you can elicityes certain people are more
prone to this, but you couldelicit a certain thing, so it.
It's one of those things.
How do you prove it?
Because every time you look upfruit loops it's going to be
f-r-o-o-t, right it.
The only place you're going tosee fruit f-r-u-i-t is people

(09:27):
mocking that to mocking it up tokind of show right what they.
You can't prove what peopleremember right.

Speaker 2 (09:35):
It is interesting when there's the large group of
people that are remembering theone thing.
So right um that's what makes itis it that we are um, as a
collective right?
So there's one way, there's oneway of looking at the
simulation theory that I've seenthat it's just something that

(09:57):
the program just keeps runningright and we all, according to
that version of the simulationtheory, you have free will
within it, right?
So those choices that are beingmade, very similar to the way
real life is the choices affectthe environment, right?

(10:19):
So if you're in the simulationtheory and that happens and you
have affected the environment,maybe it's consequential, maybe
it's not right, but it could be.
You know every effect.
You know, kind of like droppinga pebble in the water, it's
going to make.
Is it large ripples, smallripples?

(10:40):
Something's going to happen,small ripples, something's going
to happen, and so I'll tell youwhen I was looking it up.
There's one regarding thecomedian Sinbad, have you?

Speaker 1 (10:50):
heard that one.

Speaker 2 (10:51):
Yes, yep, that's a good one, so I'll be honest.
I was outside listening to abook or a podcast, I can't
remember, and they startedtalking about that.

Speaker 1 (11:03):
Shazam.

Speaker 2 (11:04):
And I said I remembered it differently, right
, but I remembered there waslike he was a genie or whatever,
right.
And I'm saying to myself oh no,this is, and I'm not joking
around.
I was in the yard and Iactually stopped for a minute
because and they said it's notreal.
I said wait a minute, I saw thetrailer.
I know I saw the trailer.
Now I said wait a minute.

(11:24):
I saw the trailer.
I know I saw the trailer.
Now Can't find it.
Did I see something else Right?
I don't know, but there's a lotof people that's what that all
say they saw this trailer, orwhatever else they say.
They saw Right and he was somegenie.
Or something and they say, oh,you're confusing with Shaq.
No, I'm not, because by thetime Shaq did that, I wasn't
watching those kinds of movies.

Speaker 1 (11:44):
You're not confusing Sinbad with Shaq.
I'm not.

Speaker 2 (11:48):
I know who they are.

Speaker 1 (11:48):
Yes, I'm a big fan of Sinbad from.
There was a football movie thatI love.
Necessary Roughness.

Speaker 2 (11:55):
Yeah, I love that movie.
Necessary.

Speaker 1 (11:56):
Roughness and he was in that.
I have the same memory.

Speaker 2 (12:05):
And again, I'm not a big enough fan of Sinbad.
No me either.

Speaker 1 (12:06):
Like I'm not a Sinbad fan, I mean, he was already a
stand-up comedian.
He was a stand-up comedianright, oh, I've seen him.

Speaker 2 (12:08):
I've seen him.
Yeah, yeah, I used to lovestand-up.

Speaker 1 (12:09):
When I was a kid, rosie used to like going to see
him and I went with her once andyou know it's okay.
I mean remember that movieexisting I remember seeing ads
for it?
I don't remember seeing themovie I didn't see the movie.

Speaker 2 (12:27):
I thought I saw a trailer.

Speaker 1 (12:28):
I saw ads and trailers for it a long time ago
and I didn't ever go see themovie or anything.
I just kind of like, moved on.
And then when I hear it's a man.
So that's what makes a Mandelaeffect.
The Mandela effect is oneperson or a handful of people
could be misremembering an event.
The question is if lots andlots, and lots of people have a

(12:51):
very specific memory.
Actually, here's a veryinteresting one.
What is it the lion lays downwith the lamb?
Is that a real thing in thebible?

Speaker 2 (13:03):
oh, I don't know, you're asking the wrong guy.

Speaker 1 (13:05):
So that's like a trope.
The lion laying down with thelamb.
It's used all the time as likea biblical reference does not
exist.
What's it supposed to represent?
The idea of like the?
The lion the lion laying downwith the lamb you know, the, the
, the, the hunter and the preyyou know, and basically laying
down together kind of moment ofpeace, whatever.

(13:27):
Yes, that's it but the idea islike it doesn't say that, it
says something about some otheranimal and a lamb, but nowhere
is it a lion, lamb.
But lots of people have a very,very strong memory of like no,
I learned that I.
I read the bible.
I remember reading that, okay,show it to us.

(13:48):
And they can't, because theylook all through it.
And I actually went on chat gptand I was like, does it say
anywhere in the bible you know,lion lays down with the lamb?
It was like no, it says thisand it says this and says you
know ones that are close.
Yep, so does that mean all thepeople who think that are
misremembering it?
So here's another interestingthing that I didn't know
Apparently, if you are, like Isaid, amman, the scholar of the

(14:12):
Quran in the Muslim religion,you're required to memorize the
Quran, like memorize it like theequivalent of memorizing the
Bible.

Speaker 2 (14:24):
What.

Speaker 1 (14:27):
Yes, that's part of like your journey, to like get
to that point.
So you have to memorize theholy book and the reason why.
Yeah, so genie, genies cannotchange the past and change what
happened, because every you knowreligious person in that
religion knows every word.
That there's no doubt, becausethey memorized it and everybody

(14:50):
memorized it.

Speaker 2 (14:51):
So it keeps it the same oh, I see, it's a
fascinating thing.

Speaker 1 (14:54):
So it's like a, it's like a insulating you in the
idea that that there's thesegenie or whatever creatures that
go that time.
Yeah, I think they're calledjinns.
The jinn, yeah, and like that,they mess with time and that can
change things.
But that book, the Quran, isimmune from being changed

(15:15):
because every person who I meanthat's something I heard them
talk about on the podcast.
But, like our memories arefaulty, our memories can be
suspect.
Like our memories are faulty,our memories can be suspect.
So it's very easy to believethat a bunch of people are
misremembering something orinfluencing each other.
Right, because you're onlygoing to remember things that

(15:35):
you have, like I said, emotion.
If you don't have a strongemotion to it, how well are you
going to remember it?
But if you had, that's why Iremember the VanderSloot thing,
because I had an emotionalreaction to it and I remember
that feeling, like I remember itNow.
It's also possible that I sawan erroneous story, but I seem
to remember, like I didn't justlike see one story and believe

(15:58):
it and walk, like I looked intoit and saw other sources talking
about it.
Like I have like a vague memoryof like looking at different
news sources and seeing allthese write-ups about, you know,
the natalie holloway thing,about how he'd gotten in trouble
in peru and he went to prisonand you know, and he got stabbed
and passed away and all that,and it's like no, that didn't

(16:18):
happen.
So, um, yeah, mandela effect isfascinating.
Any other mandela effects thatyou can think of?
I'm trying to think of this, awhole bunch of them the Lion and
the Lamb, is that one.
The Fruit Loops the Sinbad.
But how would you explain thatIn the simulation reality, like
in that explanation, you switchservers In server A Sinbad.

(16:44):
Lot of choices are irrelevant.
If every choice that peoplemake spins off into a different
universe, different time stream,that would get unwieldy.

(17:08):
Right space wise it would getunwieldy, it would just
eventually.
If every choice spun off liketwo roads, it would eventually
become untenable.
How would you manage that?
In a computer simulation you'dmerge different ones down the
line that were similar enough tobe virtually the same well, a

(17:28):
lot of the one.
Like you had pancakes in one andright in the other, it's
irrelevant.
It's an irrelevant choice, soyou can merge that with a bunch
of other breakfast choices thatyou made a year ago.
It doesn't matter and so, butin that little things could be
different.

Speaker 2 (17:42):
Here's one that I found that they talk about.
Alexander Hamilton right whenthey say that he was not a
president.
Right, he had something to dowith, you know, the founding of
the country, but he wasn't apresident.
He had something to do with thefounding of the country, but he
wasn't a president.
But apparently a lot ofAmericans believe he was a

(18:06):
president.
So they say there's aneuroscience explanation which
leads you to maybe there'ssomething to the simulation
theory.
The neuroscience explanation ofwhy there are so many people
that believe the same thing isthat, well, the simulation

(18:27):
theory gets to that, but thatyou remember that person being a
president because your brain,where those memories are stored
for presidents, it's there.
So you're correlating the twothings.

Speaker 1 (18:44):
Because it's lumped in often when you're hearing all
the other presidents' names.

Speaker 2 (18:48):
Yeah, but why is it so?
They don't know why is it, butthey know that you're
remembering it as a president,because that's where the
memories are stored.

Speaker 1 (18:58):
Neuroscience says that.
All right, so we know thatyou're remembering it as a
president, because that's wherethe memories are stored.

Speaker 2 (19:00):
Neuroscience says that right, all right, so we
know that.
But why is it stored there?

Speaker 1 (19:05):
You know what I actually think?
I'm one of the people.
If you'd asked me before, yousaid that was Alexander Hamilton
a president, I would have saidyeah, maybe the name just sounds
really similar to somethingelse.

Speaker 2 (19:15):
It sounds presidential, but I don't know.
So if we are storing memoriestogether with things that aren't
you know in fact, true, why arewe?

Speaker 1 (19:31):
It wouldn't happen if we all had the shared reality,
right?
If there was one reality thatwas shared by all of us, then
the facts are the facts.

Speaker 2 (19:39):
Well, here's what they're saying, right, and it
kind of goes this is what I'veheard and it kind of goes to
that Buddhist theory, right,that we keep getting back in and
they keep replaying the program.
Right?
Some of us are enlightened, sowe're not in the program anymore

(19:59):
, right, but the ones that are,we keep replaying it and we're
remembering something from aprevious playthrough that
happened on a previousplaythrough right yeah, yeah,
it's interesting.

Speaker 1 (20:11):
I mean it's.
I guess it's the way where youwant to approach the world like
that, whether it's like it's onesimulation that they keep
running.
Or different ones happening, ordifferent ones happening
simultaneously, or somecombination of the two Right
Right, different simulationsrunning and different ones
getting, you know, rebooted.
Oh, the simulation ended poorly.
Oh, nuclear war.

Speaker 2 (20:31):
The whole planet's destroyed All right, let's
reboot that one and geteverybody back there's kind of
strange, too, thinking that Ikeep saying buddhists but there
are probably other, uh, lesserknown religions that think the
same type of thing.
But there is really not much ofa difference between what they
believe is reality and whatwe're talking about as a

(20:53):
simulation theory, which I guessif it was real it would
actually be reality.
But you know what I mean?
Yeah, the real, physical worldthat we live in.
Buddhists think you do keepcoming back Right and rerunning
it.

Speaker 1 (21:06):
You know, it's interesting too when you think
about that.
The concept of time is anartificial construct where time
is not the same, whereas time isa function of gravity, right?
So if you're on a differentplanet, time is running the same
, whereas time is a function ofgravity, right?
So if you're on a differentplanet, time is running
differently than here.
And so there are people whothink they've been reincarnated
and they were here in cavemantimes and they were back in

(21:29):
Egypt and then they were inRoman times and then they kept
coming back and in our linearmind, this happened first, this
happened second, this happenedwhatever, but the way that
science kind of explains it,that all those events are kind
of happening simultaneously,which, again, it's mind-blowing

(21:49):
how do you get?
your mind around that.
Which kind of?
But then that supports theretrocausality, Because if
they're all happening at thesame time, how can something
that happens 100 years afteraffect something that should
have happened 100 years prior?
But if time is an artificialconstruct and it's all happening
at once, well then they're allhappening at the same time, so

(22:10):
they can influence each other.
It's only from our perspective,because we're seeing it in a
linear fashion, that it seemslike the future is affecting the
past.

Speaker 2 (22:20):
How do people get their minds around that things
are all happening at the sametime, yet nobody can see it?

Speaker 1 (22:27):
Yeah, the whole idea that time is an artificial
construct that not necessarilyeveryone observes or is hindered
by, which would mean thatpeople potentially out there
would have the ability to easilyappear and disappear at any

(22:47):
time they want and, if they hadany interactions with the
universe directly, could causechanges which would account for
all of a sudden us rememberingsomething that happened a
different way.
It's, it's, you know.
And again, if you're of askeptical bent, you can easily
just say all of this comes downto people misremembering things

(23:11):
and it's.
It's because you can't prove it, because people have a memory
of it and they'll.
They'll swear up and down.
They remember Sinbad in that,they'll swear up and down, they
remember sinbad in right in thatmovie, I mean.
Or they remember, um, you know,they remember sinbad as shazam,
or they remember nelson mandeladying in prison.
But obviously, if you googlethese things, you find out what

(23:31):
everyone else you know had kindof remembers, which is no, he
lived, nelson mandela waspresident and of south africa,
and sinbad was not right in thatmovie.
You can never, you can neverprove it, like it's always going
to be your memory againstreality and reality trumps your
memory, right, except when youunderstand these deeper

(23:52):
principles and you realize well,possibly, but that's not the
only explanation.
It's a fascinating one.

Speaker 2 (24:00):
It's crazy, and did you look at things regarding
Elon Musk with all this?

Speaker 1 (24:09):
On his what on his theories, His just thoughts on
it.

Speaker 2 (24:11):
Yeah, you know, that's interesting.
I mean he's, people have theirown thoughts about him.
I mean, people have their ownthoughts about him.
I don't find him to be aspolarizing as some people do.
I find him to be just, you know, a guy that does what he does,
and there's no dismissing hisintelligence, no, he's smart and

(24:35):
he's had an impact.

Speaker 1 (24:38):
I find him to be interesting.
I also find him to be sometimesjust like randomly capricious.
Like I said I think I said thisbefore like suddenly changing
the name of Twitter oh yeah,it's like it wasn't even well
thought out, like it wasn't likehe came up with a plan and
rolled it out.
It was like I'm going to changeit to this and without any kind
of like now dealing with thedownstream effects, like he has

(24:59):
a lot of times, he'll just likespeak like any human, like he'll
just talk and he'll say stuffand I don't know, because he's
Elon Musk, his words meansomething, but sometimes he's
just talking out of his ass,like anyone well, I mean, I'm
not going to disagree that Ithink he shoots from the hip,
but he does have.
He is interesting in this regard.

Speaker 2 (25:19):
His ability to contemplate things Right, and
you know what he said regarding.
You know he said theadvancements with computers.
You know it's really not out ofthe realm of possibility to
think that we're going to be ina position to do this eventually
, right, if we're ever in aposition to do this eventually
Right.

Speaker 1 (25:39):
If we're ever in a position to do it, then it's a
foregone conclusion thatsomebody before us has already
been in the position to do itRight and they did it Right Is
the thought process Right Now.
It's so much, you know.
I'm just looking at my.
Besides the Mandela effect,here's another one that comes up
off a lot Glitches in thematrix.

(25:59):
Have you heard that?

Speaker 2 (26:00):
They're related.
Those two things are related,right.

Speaker 1 (26:03):
That's like a glitch, but like visual glitches, like
people will sometimes, and I'veseen these things.

Speaker 2 (26:08):
Yeah, I can't tell on the videos.
I'm like it's just doctored.

Speaker 1 (26:11):
Anything I see in a video, anything I see in the
picture, my first thought has tobe it is potentially faked.
Right, because it can be faked.
I don't know enough about videoanalysis to be able to
determine it one way or theother.
But that idea of glitches inthe matrix, why does something
glitch?
Well, computers glitch, right,it takes a lot of energy to run

(26:35):
a simulation.
It takes a lot of energy to runa simulation and sometimes code
.
Sometimes, if you're playing avirtual game, world of Warcraft,
occasionally there's a deadbody of a monster floating five
feet off the ground, apparentlybecause in the computer's mind
it thinks it's on the ground andit, you know, a little bit of

(26:56):
information is off.
So that is can cause glitchesin the matrix.
And so interesting that thatterm came along, you know, after
the matrix movie, because theyexplained a glitch in the matrix
, which was deja vu.
Which brings us to our next one, which is that idea that you've
already been through it.

(27:16):
Right, we've all had that Right.
Right, where you didn't, Ididn't, I already do this like
you have, like a strong memory,even though there's no way you
could have can I tell you thatonce in a while it's happened to
me yeah and it's been so strongthat you know I'll, I'll get up
and I'll, you know, check myphone.

Speaker 2 (27:37):
I'm like it's today and it sounds crazy, but I'm
like wait a minute.
No, I know, I just talked tothis person and I didn't right.
You didn't.
However, I think I talked tothem last week, right?

Speaker 1 (27:47):
I'm like no, I'm talking right now.
You can look through your phonelogs and be like no, I guess I
didn't but I story right nowagain.

Speaker 2 (27:59):
I might hear the same story from two different people
, and just that could be it.
But it doesn't feel that way?

Speaker 1 (28:01):
no, and it could also be what I've heard it explained
as deja vu.
Is your subconscious mindpicking it up a millisecond
before your conscious mind doesso?
Your conscious mind isremembering it for the first
time, but your subconscious mindpicked it up just a little bit
before but gives you the feelingthat you had it happened before

(28:24):
and if people don't thinkthat's real, there's.

Speaker 2 (28:27):
They've shown experiments right where, if
you're sitting there and youwant to pick up uh, I have a
coffee cup right here like ifyou want to pick up a coffee cup
have you heard of this?
Maybe?
Yeah, so they've doneexperiments that, prior to you
consciously deciding to pick upthat coffee cup, your

(28:48):
subconscious is fired.
Your subconscious is alreadyfired for you to do it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (28:56):
That's like a pre-'s, like a pre-memory, almost Like
you're remembering somethingthat is about to happen because
your subconscious is telling youto do it.
Do it Interesting.

Speaker 2 (29:07):
That itself I think we should have a topic on,
because it's mind-blowing thatas much free will we think we
have, it's still maybe our freewill right, but it's on a
different level because you knowthey've done it.
You know people, any littleaction, the subconscious is
firing.
They're trying to figure outwhat it's firing about, but it's

(29:27):
firing just before.
Right, your conscious brain isfiring to do, do, tell your
muscle to do it right.

Speaker 1 (29:35):
And you know it's interesting with, with the idea
of that in deja vu.
What supports that is the sensethat because you, you remember
the event kind of, but you don'tremember exactly when, like
it's not like you.
You say I had this conversationlast tuesday.
It's not like that.
It's like this conversationfeels the same, like I've

(29:58):
already been through it, but ifyou try to nail down in your
head exactly when that happened,you don't come up with anything
.
It's not like you know it's nota specific and that's what
makes it so unsettling, is?
It's not a specific memory,it's just this vague feeling of
but this has happened beforethis.
This set of circumstances hasrolled out exactly like this,

(30:22):
but usually it's cases where itcouldn't be like it's not
something that could havehappened before.
It's a conversation that you'rehaving now because it comes up.
It's not a conversation.
But would the uh?
Would the simulation theorysupport that?
Of course it would.
This is like you said multipletimes of the simulation.
The simulation theory supportthat?
Of course it would.
This is like you said multipletimes of the simulation the
simulations running a secondtime.
There's a piece of you thatremembers a previous run through

(30:44):
Right or or remembers a youknow, perceiving something
that's happening on a differenttime stream, as as as.
Where is that, you know?
And and I don't know it's in.
Simulation theory also kind ofhelps kind of explain some of
the weird paranormal phenomena.
Right, I mean, in a simulatedworld, in a computer game, there

(31:09):
are things that could break therules.
Most things in world ofwarcraft there are rules to the
game.
There are rules.
Every you know.
Certain things work certainways because that's the rule.
But there are programmers whohave the power to interact with
this world and ignore some ofthe rules.

(31:32):
Their avatar can come in andfully equipped with all the best
weapons and stuff and justappear in places.
Here's a trippier thing.
What's interesting I thinkabout, like paranormal phenomena
, particularly sometimes likeUFOs and things, two people can
be in the same location.
One person sees it, the otherperson doesn't, right, I've

(31:57):
heard those stories.
Now look at it from a simulationpoint of view.
That image is being rendered onmy screen.
It's not being rendered on yourscreen like that.
We can understand that that?
That's even crazy but from avideo game point we can
understand have a shared reality.

Speaker 2 (32:14):
I don't understand like that part, I can't get my
head around, but I've heard manystories of it happening.
People, you know adamant,listen, I was right here.
This is what happened.

Speaker 1 (32:23):
The other person was next to me and they said no,
that's not what happened, right,right no, it's, it's because
but and that is explainable andmakes sense in a simulation
theory because, like a videogame, if something is rendered
on my screen and not rendered onyours, I see it and you don't.

(32:43):
And we you and I here would say, well, that's impossible.
Like this, this pen is eitheron the table between us or it's
not.
But if we were playing a, youknow, multiplayer game, online
game like this, and for whateverreason, the pen was rendered on

(33:04):
my screen but for whateverreason the data wasn't getting
you completely so you didn't seethe pen, or it was intentional.
Maybe the program has said youknow what, we want chris to see
the pen and we don't want steveto see it.
So, like it kind of explainssome of this paranormal stuff
that goes on.
It's almost like things thatare outside the simulation,
which break the rules of thesimulation.

(33:27):
But if you're in the simulationyou would be at a loss to
explain, right, how it happened.
But if you understand thesimulation from outside of it,
then you see it's just we gavethat one a little extra oomph,
for whatever reason.
Ghosts, ghosts and apparitions,right, I mean all of this in a

(33:47):
simulation theory is, you knowwhat?
This is very lined up to withwe talked about the holographic
universe.
It's a similar, it's thatsimilar vibe.
It's really just a differentname for kind of the same
concept, right, the idea thatthe, the universe is a hologram
and it's all fake and we're allkind of interfacing with this

(34:09):
thing it exists because we areall believing it yes that's
pretty much what it says, right,we're all experiencing, we're
all believing it.

Speaker 2 (34:15):
So it says right, we're all experiencing it, we're
all believing it, so it's realRight.

Speaker 1 (34:20):
Right, a shared reality, and if enough people
believe something to be true,could it be that if enough
people believe something to betrue and there's enough power
behind that, it makes it true?

Speaker 2 (34:34):
Well, think of that, because that's 100% real.
Right, that's 100% real, asmuch as people don't want to
think about it.
And here's the most perfectexample, right, and I could
probably come up with other onestoo Money, right, because money
, and people are going to saywhat are you talking about,
steve?
Right, here's what I'm talkingabout Money itself has no

(34:56):
intrinsic value.
Right, we're bartering withcurrency that we're told has
value because the governmentsays it has value.

Speaker 1 (35:06):
Essentially, we're handing pieces of paper and
pieces of metal back and forth,and then now digital that
doesn't even exist.

Speaker 2 (35:13):
It's not backed by anything.

Speaker 1 (35:14):
It's a concept we all agree on.

Speaker 2 (35:16):
It's a concept everyone buys in on.
It's a shared reality, but it'snot backed by anything.
It's a concept we all agree on.
It's a concept everyone buys inon.
Right, it's a shared reality,but it's not reality.
It's not reality because beforemoney right, I mean people
always figured out a way totrade things.
Right.
But trade is very different frommoney, right, trade is I get a
good, you get a service, or Iget a good, you get a good.
We both trade services,whatever it might be right,

(35:38):
money is very different.
I give you a good or service,you give me back currency that
then I can use on any good orservice I want.
Right, I don't have toparticularly use the one you
might have to give back to me.
That's how the whole systemworks.
Right.
But prior to someone, whoever,a person or a group of people

(35:59):
coming up with the money I knowa lot had to do with um the uh,
the phoenicians and thesumerians they come up with the
trade and the money, but priorto that it didn't exist.
Right, it didn't exist in thephysical world.
It didn't.
There was.
No, nobody was using it.
It didn't it.

Speaker 1 (36:19):
All the money is is a symbol, right, right and so,
but everyone buys into it, so itworks right and it wouldn't
work if I said, like, if Isuddenly developed chris bucks
and it went up, now how muchdoes that cost?
Oh, that translates into threechris bucks.
So I'll give you this chrisbuck and we'll be good and
people be like uh, no, no, youwon't do that.

Speaker 2 (36:37):
And they call the cops right, right so but but if
let's say I believed it, I wasthe only one that believed it
and I, and then I.
I went to the store and I said,well, I have these crisp bucks
I'm going to give you.
It takes everyone to believe it.
We all have to buy right and Iknow it sounds crazy to say what
do you mean?
Believe in money?
It's not real.

(36:57):
I always say that once in awhile I'll be joking around with
different people and I'll say,yeah, why do we work outside?
Money's not even real.
Time's a construct Like whatare we doing?
It's all fake, but you knowit's laughable, but you know
you've got to do it because thatis our reality.

Speaker 1 (37:15):
Yeah, Right, got to do it because that is our
reality.
Yeah, right, and it's ourreality because we believe it.

Speaker 2 (37:27):
Yeah, yeah, you're exactly right, so we do to a
certain.
We can all understand that's avery uh, tangible way that we
are shared delusion, right, it'swhat it is reality, but it's
not yeah, I mean, if you wentback, uh, you know, 10 000 years
and you were chilling onSavannah with some whoever was
living there at the time and yousaid hey man, if you go kill
that lion, you know I'll giveyou a thousand dollars.

(37:48):
Guy's going to say what the F?
Are you talking?

Speaker 1 (37:51):
about.
I'm going to give you a hundred, chris bucks.

Speaker 2 (37:55):
No, no, seriously, you can buy stuff with this.

Speaker 1 (37:58):
What are you talking about?
What are?

Speaker 2 (38:00):
you talking about Right, and I'm not saying you
know.
Someone could say well, youknow, there were no cars then,
but there's cars now.
I get it, but money is stilljust a concept.
Yeah, yeah, in the world welive in, it has value, but it
has it, you know and there'sother things you can come up
with with the reasons but it hasthe value because we all assign

(38:23):
it a value.

Speaker 1 (38:25):
Right, you know the general respectability or
irrespectability of somebody.
You know, if everyone thinks acertain individual is
respectable, regardless of theiractions, they're just
considered to be respectable,where somebody else who may have
done similar actions is hatedby everybody, or you know that
general idea.
We all perceive them as thevillain.

(38:45):
Right, and they are the villain, even though, if you really
can't, you know, look at it.
What is the difference betweena and b?
There's minor differences, butnot always as many.
It's it's, it's, it's our, yeah, it's our forming our reality.
Um, let's see here paranormal.
So you get ghost telepathy,yeah, similar, um, time slips

(39:05):
and temporal anomalies.
You know, I mean, there arecases where people will, like
have gaps in, like huge gaps intime.
You, you know that almost likethey're log out of the game and
logged back in.

Speaker 2 (39:20):
Well, how many times are you driving right?
And as you drive, I know peopledismiss it, but you're driving
along right, and I think it goes, you know, to the subconscious,
where they again has.
I think it's very interestingwho's in control of the
subconscious?
We all want to think we havefree will, right, which we do.
Right.
If I want to jump out thewindow, I can get up and jump

(39:44):
out the window if I want.
But as much as I want to holdmy breath, I'm going to breathe,
right.
As much as I want to thinkabout, you know, not having to
go to the bathroom.
If I go to the bathroom, if Igo to the bathroom, I go to the

(40:06):
bathroom, right.
If I want my heart to be, Ihave no control over it, right,
I don't have any control over alot of aspects of my body or my
mind.

Speaker 1 (40:10):
You just don't, but nobody wants to think about that
.
Some would say that you don'thave control over it.
Though just because you're, youdon't believe you have control
over it and you don't exertcontrol over it because there
are religious yogis and stuffthat supposedly can slow down
their heartbeat, can not breathefor long periods of time,
because they have total control,supposedly, of the physical
body.

Speaker 2 (40:28):
That's true.

Speaker 1 (40:28):
Or the way that was sort of explained in the Matrix
is.
It's like any computer programSome rules can be bent, others
broken is what they explain,explain, and it's that idea that
it's almost, you know.
So.
So much of simulation theory.
When viewed through a computerviewpoint it has a certain feel
to it, but it's the sameinformation that's kind of been

(40:49):
transmitted to the variousphilosophies and religions.
Right same con.
That general, same concept iswe're here in this place and
this place isn't the place, it'sthe place where we're at.
But at some point this will endand we will log out to the real
place and, you know, be judgedand all that different.

(41:10):
You know, religions havedifferent ideas on that.

Speaker 2 (41:12):
But what I was going to say about driving.
How many times it's?
If it hasn't happened to you,then you're.
You're different than mostpeople that you're just driving
along on a highway or whereveryou are.
It happens to me on a highway,yeah, Uh, and you say to
yourself wait a minute, I don'tremember passing all those other

(41:34):
exits, Right, what happened?

Speaker 1 (41:36):
You're on autopilot.

Speaker 2 (41:37):
Where did it go, right, what happened?
So it's happened to all of us.
We kind of just go along Right.
But you know, if you stop tothink, how did you not get in an
accident?

Speaker 1 (41:48):
Right, like what happened, and the obvious excuse
for that would be well, youwere just zoning out and you
missed it.

Speaker 2 (41:55):
That's would be well, you were just zoning out and
you missed it.

Speaker 1 (41:56):
Okay, that's fine, right, and that's one perfectly
reasonable explanation, right.

Speaker 2 (42:01):
But how did you zone out and perform functions like
that.

Speaker 1 (42:06):
So with simulation theory, you could say that you
kind of almost like semi-loggedout of the game you aren't
completely logged out, but youwere logged out enough that
those things, those exits, youdidn't see them because you were
on a different track.
You were like almost like notexpecting to see them, whereas,
like, if you're driving down theroad and you exit one, exit two

(42:27):
, exit three, you expect exitfour to be next and it is next
because that's how the exits arerun right.
But simulation theory, youcould actually say, if you
weren't thinking about it, youcould skip from exit three and
suddenly be at exit 20.
If, if you, if you impose thatthought enough and could affect

(42:48):
things, you could like zone outand miss all those exits because
they didn't happen, because youweren't expecting them.
Again, most people would say,well, that's ridiculous, you,
you miss them, you zoned out.
Say, well, that's ridiculous,you missed them, you zoned out,
you went, and that happens aswell, it's just.

Speaker 2 (43:01):
Or what if we're all designed to be in the program to
perform certain functions right, and those functions are just
what we're going to do in theprogram?
We have some free will, but youdon't have the free will to not
perform the functions theprogram wants you to.

Speaker 1 (43:21):
And if you, well, you do.
But if you don't, then when youend the game, you haven't
succeeded at the objective thatyou were supposed to do.
So you got to do it again,right?
So in the next run up, you knowyou were supposed to do X, y
and Z.
You made a conscious choice notto, even though the game, the
universe, the game was trying toget you in in it.

(43:42):
I'll give you another.
I'll give you a perfect exampleof kind of.
To bring it back to video games.
In a video game, if there's acertain quest that the game
wants you to take, it will tryto put it in front of you in
various ways, right.
But you always have the powernot to.
You always have the power torun by that non-player character

(44:03):
who has the quest, and you justhave to talk to him and he
gives you the quest.
I do this all the time.
I don't want to get into thatquest because, for whatever
reason, it's not of interest tome.
So I'll skip past it.
Yep, and in some cases I'll gothrough the entire game and
never do that quest.
So the universe can put it infront of you.
But at the end you do have freewill and so, but.

(44:26):
But when you get to the end ofthe video game and the game ends
and says okay, here we'retallying up your points, you
know what?
You didn't finish this quest,so you don't get a perfect score
.
You didn't finish the game 100%.
You didn't complete the gamebecause you didn't do that and
you can't go back and do itbecause that has already passed.
You know you've already passedthat point in the game, so
you're going to have to go backand do it again and come in as a

(44:47):
different character, because ina video game that's what you
would do.
Very rarely would you come backand play the exact same game.
Right, you'd come back andyou'd create a new character and
approach it.
But you might have some of thesame goals and maybe that quest
doesn't quite look exactly thesame because it's a different
time period or differentwhatever, but the general tenets
of the quest are still.
It's just a fascinating youknow how.

(45:11):
About just bizarre coincidencesand synchronicities?
We've all had that right,bizarre coincidences.
You're thinking about somebody.
Suddenly they call you Right.
Or you know the synchronicitieswhere, like, something happens
that just is statisticallyimprobable.
You know people winning thelottery multiple times.

Speaker 2 (45:29):
That's happening Right, unless you're Whitey.

Speaker 1 (45:30):
Bojo yeah, probable, you know people winning the
lottery multiple times, that'sright.
Like your whitey bojo yeah,that's true too.
Um, or just like strangecoincidences, you know like, uh,
it happens a lot, right, likeit's again, the holographic
universe uses this concept tokind of support its thing about,
you know, coincidences beingthis the universe working its
ways in the simulation theory.
It's the same thing, you know,simulation, it's programmed,

(45:51):
it's not a coincidence, it'ssupposed to happen, it's, it's
lined up that way, or it's.

Speaker 2 (45:56):
You know, uh, maybe it's just a nudge like you're
talking about.
They're trying to nudge you todo a certain quest.
Yeah, those type ofcoincidences are.
Are the or is the programnudging you to do a certain act
or to follow a certain path?

Speaker 1 (46:12):
Right, I like that.
You know, as a philosophy, Ienjoy that one.
Like the idea that we're hereto be the best version of
ourselves and you have to keepcoming back and doing it again
until you fix all that.
Right, you know you screwed upon that one.
You were, you know, you're kindof.

Speaker 2 (46:30):
You're kind of well, I mean I jerk on that one.
Yeah, I don't sorry to talk, noyou're a jerk on that one.

Speaker 1 (46:36):
You're going to come back and do it again.

Speaker 2 (46:38):
Yeah, try not to be as much a jerk this time I it a
lot more humane than, um, let'ssay, a christian religion where
you know you didn't follow allthese rules.
What happens?

Speaker 1 (46:58):
you, you, you, just you're doomed, right like this
is wait a minute.
But you know, I kind of triedright well, sorry, you know what
rare is the video game that youonly get to play once?
Right, like most games, youcould play it again, right?
I always thought that that wasjust the reason why I didn't
ever grasp onto that, becauseeven if you don't go to the bad
place and you go to the quoteunquote, good place, right, even

(47:21):
the best place after a whilekind of get boring.

Speaker 2 (47:25):
You would think Like it doesn't matter how good.

Speaker 1 (47:27):
Like doesn't matter how good it is, anything like
that.
Eventually you'd be like okay,now what?
Where that kind of supports theidea that you can't enjoy the
simulation?
You're incapable of enjoyingthe simulation or getting as
much out of it if you're awareof it, and the only way you can

(47:50):
really enjoy the simulation andget out of it what you need to
get out of it is if thatsimulation is indistinguishable
from reality.
What do you mean?
If you're in a game, if you'reaware that you're in a game,
you're going to behave incertain ways.
I play those games all the time.

Speaker 2 (48:06):
Well, it's funny you say that.
Have you ever?
It happened to me when I waslike a kid.
If you were in a dream and thenyou knew you were in, it Did it
ever happen to you.

Speaker 1 (48:15):
It happened to me.
You can take control.

Speaker 2 (48:17):
Very rarely, but I want to say it happened to me
maybe a handful, a little lessthan a handful of times.
It was almost like you could dowhatever you wanted.
I could even make myself wakeup Right Right, if even make
myself wake up right right if itwas going like really bad.

Speaker 1 (48:34):
Um, but most of the time you didn't know you were in
a dream and and most of thetime you don't at least me I
don't remember most of my dreamsno, especially the older I get,
so like where was I last night,like as I slept in my bed, I I
must have dreamt something,right, I must have been
somewhere, in the sense of youknow, you're dreaming something.
I have zero recollection of it.
That's interesting, right.

(48:56):
And when you do remember yourdreams, you remember fragments.
You remember very rarely bitsand pieces.

Speaker 2 (49:01):
Do you ever wake up and think you remember your
dream, but within seconds it'sgone?

Speaker 1 (49:06):
Yeah, If you don't, they say one of the ways if you
want to start remembering yourdreams, I don't they say one of
the ways, you, if you want tostart remembering your dreams.
I don't know how true this is,but basically when you wake up
and you remember your dreamright there, and then you have
to like get it down, write itdown or or something, get it out
, get it and review it Because,yes, like you, I have woken up
with like a very vividrecollection of the dream and

(49:29):
been like, oh, I got to tellRosie about this.
And like, gotten up, gone to thebathroom, come back and be like
, yeah, I had this weird dreamand then just been like I don't
remember exactly what it was,but I remember it was weird and
I was going to tell you about it.
Yeah, and you're like, I justhad it yeah.
It was, and the simulationtheory would say, or possibly

(49:51):
say, that that altered state ofconsciousness, your dream state.
Maybe that's logging out of thegame, because we have to sleep
as humans.
If we don't sleep, bad thingshappen.
You take a human and just keepthem up.
I mean, that's how they torturepeople sometimes is they?
Just keep people up.
And after a while you starthallucinations and just like bad

(50:13):
things happen when you don'tsleep.
So I think of that as likerebooting the computer, you know
, like if you, if you have acomputer or a phone, anything
electronic like that, and youhave it on and open and using it
for long periods of time, itstarts to operate in ways you
didn't intend right, so glitchesstart to happen.

(50:34):
What's the best way to stopyour electronic device from
glitching?
Reboot it, shut it down, startit up again.
It's like a fresh reboot, right, and it's like our brains need
that, like we need that sleep,we need that period of time.
We don't remember it.
Usually we remember very little.
Some people remember more of it, you know, than they do.

Speaker 2 (50:57):
It seems like most people, including me, remember
them more when you're a kid.

Speaker 1 (51:00):
Yeah.
I don't know, and also whenyou're a kid, kind of that
reality in the dream world are.
Like you know, possibly whenyou're a kid the world is more
open so you possibly could dreamsomething and remember it as
reality, right, because yourgrasp of actual reality is not
solidified yet.
So you dream something as asmall child and you're convinced

(51:25):
that it happened when it didn't, and that's a way that people
will explain away.
You know kids who.
It's interesting too how kidshave like just a better memory
and like of that stuff.
Like little kids will sometimessupposedly remember past lives,
like really young kids, likewe'll remember, but then if they

(51:49):
get a little bit older it'sgone, like they just gone, kind
of similar to the dream thing.
Yeah, you know, I've seen, I'veseen threads and stuff or
different tiktoks and whatnot ofpeople like talking about like
things that their small childsaid, that like freaked them out
, and like people will talkabout their small kid just
casually saying that they diedin 9-11 and saying you, I lived,
I lived here and I did this andI did this.

(52:12):
And in some cases they look itup and they like these facts are
real right, like how does thiskid know that this particular
person existed and lived in thisplace?
And sometimes these kids willjust be like really young and
they'll just be like oh, Iremember, you know, I remember

(52:32):
living there and doing real farback things.
I remember I remember dying inthat volcano and and something
like that, and like little kidsbecause they don't realize that
it's impossible in our mind, andso they say it.
But as you get older thematerialistic world kind of gets
its hooks into you and, almostlike the materialistic world
tells you that that doesn'texist, that anything outside of

(52:54):
material is not real, right.
But then quantum physics tellsus that even the supposedly real
stuff at its core isn't as realas we'd like, right.
So the whole materialism thingkind of falls apart at that
point that's a religion like anyother.
It's like the religion ofmaterialism, believing that

(53:15):
nothing happens, like when wedie.
Think about this when people Istarted thinking about people
freezing their brains and bodies, you know, to be brought back,
and I was like that only worksif you assume that the you is
the body and when you die you'restill in there and you're
freezing it.
And so someday, if you can curethat disease, you could just

(53:38):
unthaw the body, cure thedisease and you back up and you
know bob's your uncle, you'reback into it again, which again
only works if that's the way.
But even that belief is areligion.
It is is because if, as someothers, believe that there's a
soul or something and when thebody dies, that thing moves on,
then it doesn't matter if athousand years from now you can

(53:59):
cure that disease.
Yeah, you'll unthaw that body.
It's just going to be a body.
It's going to be a dead body,like.
I don't understand the leapbetween.
It wasn't like they froze theperson, like right before death.
They like froze them right,like as quickly as possible when
they passed away, and they say,all right, now we're going to
store this body, keep it on icelike walt disney.
I had this thing once.

(54:21):
It's something I don't know.
This has nothing to do withanything.
They said disney created frozenso that when you google frozen
and disney, you'd come up with amovie and you wouldn't come up
about Walt Disney as whatsomebody says.
I mean, that's who now?
Who knows?

Speaker 2 (54:36):
but no, but that, that idea that like I don't know
it's well, you know, it's funnythat, as we're talking about it
, the idea that your soul goeson somewhere else but your body
doesn't soul goes on somewhereelse but your body doesn't isn't
all that different than theidea that a person a part of a

(54:57):
computer program if we'retalking about the simulation
theory here, right, that if aprogram is continued to run,
right, but you come back, thepart of you, that is, the free
will of you, comes back and itjust gets put into a different
program.
Right, not necessarily I'm meall the time, the core of me,

(55:20):
but the free will of me is me,but I'm put into another program
over and over again.
Right, that is a littledifferent, but it's not that
different than the core of adifferent religion.
No.

Speaker 1 (55:33):
I mean I, I.
So one of the games I'mcurrently playing is called
Baldur's Gate.
Okay, so it's a.
It's a single player game whereyou, you know, you run around,
you do adventures and stuff likethat, right.
But what's great about this gameis is the amount of care and
programming that's been put into.
It gives you a tremendousamount of free will, meaning
that when you play this game,you play the story from start to

(55:55):
finish.
There are choices that you canmake that change the structure
of how the story.
You can be a good guy, you canbe a bad guy, and it's not just
minor things like in grand theftauto.
You can be a bad guy and goaround shooting people and be a
good guy.
I don't know if you'd be a goodguy in grand theft auto, but
basically, like nothing aboutthe game, world changes in that

(56:15):
game on how you act, but inbalder's gate they've done it,
so the game can be radicallydifferent, like two different
people can play the game andhave radically, radically
different experiences and allthat's programmed in like almost
as if it's two separate gamesor multiple separate games,

(56:38):
because it's like you can cometo the game and play a certain
way, pick a certain.
You know you want to be a swordswinging guy, right, but then
you can play the game again andyou can be like an evil
spellcaster and you can makechoices in the game that change
everything.
Now, within limits, obviously,because it's programming, but
they do a great job of that.
But that's the whole.
Idea is that I've playedthrough not through the whole

(57:00):
thing, but I've played throughparts of it, and then, as I
frequently will do, I start anew character because I want to
try this out.
What if I play as this type ofperson?
And I'm seeing how some of theyou know, even at the beginning
parts of the games, like you canmake choices, I can choose not
to save this particular person,and then in later parts of the
game, if you did save them, thatperson turns up and you know is

(57:24):
integral to the story.
But if you let them, didn'tsave them and you let them die,
the story turns out differentlybecause they're not there to do
it.
It's like really amazing.
But it's that same idea ofsimulation theory, like if I
didn't know that I was playingthe game, if each time I started
playing the game, my memoriesof the real world, if I was like
really into that game, it wouldbe like different experiences.

Speaker 2 (57:47):
Right.

Speaker 1 (57:47):
But some parts would be similar.
Oh, they are.
So it would be similar enough,because again it's limited by
you can't have everything bedifferent If I didn't know any.
I mean, I know because I'mconscious, so I'm playing the
game.
All right, this part stayed thesame as my last run through,
even though last time I wasdoing it this way and this time
I'm doing it this way.
I can see where the changes areright this way, and this time

(58:09):
I'm doing it this way.
I can see where the changes areright.
But if I wasn't aware of thesimulation, what would that
appear to me to be?
That'd be like Mandela effectsor that'd be like you know, like
wait a second.
I have a memory of that persondying.
You know, like in a video game,you can really understand that,
like you could, some personcould die and the game turns out

(58:32):
differently.
And then you play the gameagain and this time you save
them and this time they'rearound for later parts of the
game.
But if you didn't know anybetter, you'd get confused and
go wait a second.
And actually that will happen.
If I log out and I'm likeplaying the different games that
I started, games that I startedwhen you first get into them it

(58:52):
takes you a while to kind ofre-establish all right, we're in
this particular run through,what did I do, what did I not do
?
Because that has an effect onthings.
It takes a little bit right andso, like it, kind of like
simulation theory, if we'regoing through this again and
again, can you imagine if thisis just like one sim, like we
just keep going through, likethe whole?
I'm not even just talking aboutus, I'm talking about the whole
history of the world.
We're just trying it again andtrying it again, see if it turns

(59:15):
out different this time.
Or are they runningconcurrently?
Maybe they're running at thesame time and because time is
irrelevant, you could be inthose different times and I know
again it's a really out theretopic.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (59:34):
But if someone you know you're listening to this
and you say wait a minute, areyou saying that someone's
running a computer program onceevery 10,000 years?
No, because time for whoever'sdoing that program if this is to
be believed could be reallydifferent you could speed up a
simulation, you could right, Ifyou want to run a bunch of

(59:56):
different simulations.

Speaker 1 (59:57):
Not only can you but if we're all sharing the same
speed.

Speaker 2 (01:00:00):
It's just normal to you, right?

Speaker 1 (01:00:01):
Well, it's our perception of the speed, because
you're in it, right, right, ifyou're outside of this, maybe
this goes through was throughlike a blink of an eye, right,
like, oh my god, you just ranthrough another 10 000 cycle on
on planet earth.
Yeah, we did.
How'd this one turn out?
Oh, not so great, right, theyinvented nukes again and they
destroyed the planet.
Damn, they keep doing that,right, you know.
But then you can keep runningit.
And what if we tweak it?
What if we take this person out?

(01:00:22):
What if we do this in?

Speaker 2 (01:00:24):
yeah, it's, it's and I always try to break things
down simply to in um.
For for our reality to be realright, you have to.
To me, there needs to be somethings that are known, right,
and to me there's enough thingsthat are not known that it pokes
holes and you can at least talkabout it right?

(01:00:45):
We don't know exactly.
Nobody knows how the universecame to be right.
Nobody knows how this planetcame to be.
Nobody knows how the universecame to be right.
Nobody knows how this planetcame to be.
Nobody knows how the moon gotthere.
Nobody knows exactly thistheories.
Nobody knows.
Where did the single cellorganism come from the earth?
Nobody knows.
Nobody knows why we haveconsciousness.
They even know that.

(01:01:06):
No, they don't.
So, those are the fundamentalsof the universe and us and why
we're part of it.
And nobody knows.
There's theories.

Speaker 1 (01:01:16):
And the theory is, or the thought is, is that we will
know when we exit thesimulation Right, when we end
this run.
And again, all the majorreligions have a component of
this and they say you'll know.
You end the run.
And then you know and you kindof see your playthrough as a
third person.

(01:01:36):
And I've actually heard peoplesay you see your playthrough not
only as a third person butsometimes as the recipient of
your actions.
As the recipient of youractions, so that time that you
were horrible to somebody, whenthey play the replay you get to
see that through the eyes of theperson you were horrible to.

(01:01:57):
So you really understand thatand then you're wiped again and
go back in the simulation againyeah, so I'm coming into the
simulation is that birth kind ofthing which is so traumatic
that wipes your sim, like almostlike that's the thing that
wipes your sim wipes you fromremembering the last thing
because it's such a traumaticevent.

Speaker 2 (01:02:16):
It's just a fascinating you know, I was
reading about how you know a lotof people before they die
they'll say you know their lifeis, they'll see things from
their life as they're dyingright.
And some people say you know,if you are part of a simulation,
that you, that you downloadingeverything to some, to some

(01:02:37):
server.
Yeah, it is kind of weird how alot of people say the same thing
and we don't hear it from mostpeople, cause then then they're
gone, Right, but the people thatsomehow didn't you know they,
they, they came back to life orwhatever, they didn't die during
that last second They'll tellyou oh, I saw all these things
when I was a kid and I saw this.

Speaker 1 (01:02:57):
I saw that it's just weird that everybody experiences
the same thing and nobody canever, nobody ever comes back and
explains it all.
You know, like I know people, Iknow I've said it like hey,
when I go, when I'm on the otherside, I'll come back and I'll
let you know what's what.
Nobody ever does.
No, and maybe it's because whenyou get to the other side, then

(01:03:17):
you understand why you can't.
You know as I said thesimulation.
If you're in the simulation andyou realize you're in the
simulation and you know you'rein the same I'm not even saying
realize, you know you're in thesimulation that's going to
affect the simulation.
Right, it affects theexperiment.
You can't.
So you have to be wiped, it hasto be fresh, because then

(01:03:39):
you're living that life as thatperson and making those choices.
When you get to the end, it'slike ah, you know, we tried the
game, tried to steer you in thisdirection, but you kept going,
going here.
Well, you think about it.
If we.

Speaker 2 (01:03:50):
If you knew right and I know you're a very kind soul,
right, but if you knew that youcould get out of this reality,
whatever you know, you got toheaven.
Whatever you believed in orwhatever the reality might be,
you knew that ultimate goalcould be achieved by being kind
to everybody and that is thehighest virtue versus something

(01:04:15):
else.
Well, everybody would do that.
Right, there'll be you.
If everyone let's just say youknew that, right, right, the
simulation let's say if somebodywas putting a simulation, you
know they want to see howhumanity would react with each
other, well, the whole thingwould go to go to crap.
Right, how humanity would reactwith each other.
Well, the whole thing would goto crap.
If they said, hey, you know,you get out of here if you're
just kind to each other, well,there would never be another war

(01:04:36):
.

Speaker 1 (01:04:37):
If you knew for certain what the rules were,
most people would try to staywithin the rules.

Speaker 2 (01:04:43):
You'd have stragglers , of course, but for the most
part, that would not affect asmuch as it does now.

Speaker 1 (01:04:52):
It's you know, and that's, I think that's a sound
scientific principle is that youknow experiment.
For the experiment to be pure,it can't be, it has to be pure,
it can't.
You can't influence theexperiment.
And if people knew they were inan experiment and knew exactly,
that's why when they have theyhave control groups, when they
have, they have control groups,and all the times they'll tell
people that the experimentthey're doing is not the
experiment they're doing.

(01:05:13):
They'll tell them what theexperiment is, but they're
actually doing anotherexperiment.
Because you can't let thepeople know what the experiment
is or else it'll influence theirbehavior.
So I think a good way to wrapthis up and we'll revisit this
topic again, it'll probably comeat this in other ways, right,
but a good way to wrap this upis practically let's assume that

(01:05:35):
a simulation theory is apossible answer.
What practical way could peopleintegrate that into their
existence, to sort of like in aminor way?
You?

Speaker 2 (01:05:47):
know I don't let me think.
Do you have a thought on that?
I?

Speaker 1 (01:05:50):
mean just the idea that, like, let's, if you
assumed in a just universe thatthat's the way we're in a
simulation we got to play it, wegot to play the game, we got
you got to.
You're here to play the game.
That's why you're here, likeyou can't opt out, um, but if
you want to do it, well, you bethe best that.
You'd be the best person thatyou can be.
You know within and try torecognize when the game is

(01:06:14):
trying to tell you where to go.
If you're not paying attention,it's easy to miss those game
clues.
So maybe that's a practicalthing is slow down a little bit,
pay attention to the playexperience and be more attuned
to see if the game itself isgiving you any hints.

Speaker 2 (01:06:35):
That's true and you know, goes to what we've been
told from ancient philosophersabout being mindful and just
being paying attention to themoment you're in right can
unlock a lot of things for you,and it actually does in reality.
You know, when I'm mindful ofwhat I'm doing, wow, I have a

(01:06:57):
little.
I have more focus on exactlywhat's happening.
I can I have more understandingof things around me.
Yeah, it makes sense, doesn'tit?

Speaker 1 (01:07:04):
Yeah, it's a.
You know it's a nice way tothink about it, you know, I mean
, like you said, we'll neverknow no, until we exit the
simulation.
Yeah, but I'll tell you, chris,and we'll find out.
Well, I promise I'll come back.
If I go first, I'll come backand let you know.
Now, there's probably rulesagainst it.
Right, there's probably rulesagainst telling somebody not,
you can't tell them.
They're in a simulation but Idon't know, I love this stuff.
So, um, yeah, we'll berevisiting this in some in some

(01:07:27):
capacity, but but this has beena great discussion, so hopefully
out there you've enjoyed it aswell.
I hope so.
It gives you some stuff tothink about and stuff to
research.

Speaker 2 (01:07:37):
And.

Speaker 1 (01:07:38):
I highly recommend it's fascinating stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:07:39):
Well, this has been a great talk.
Thank you, Chris.

Speaker 1 (01:07:41):
Yeah, thank you and hey, so we're going to wrap
things up here and we'll be backwith more soon, but more soon.
But until then, I'm chris andI'm steve, and this has been
some deep shit.
We'll be you next time.