April 28, 2023 • 50 mins
This episode features a conversation with my mate from down under, Nate Newman, host of the (Not So) Secret Dads Business podcast. Nate is currently taking a break from podcasting on his own platform, but reached out to me for us to talk about what we're both currently experiencing with our respective sons: not being able to keep up with how fast they're growing up before our very eyes.
We discuss a sense of loss and pride that comes with watching our children come into their own, as well as some practical things we can do to take our relationship with our children and our spouse/partner to the next level.
As always, thank you for spending part of your week with us!
Welcome To Fatherhood now has a BLOG! You can read this weekly blog by going to my website or through the link tree on my IG account.
Your feedback is always welcomed! Write a comment on the blog, or leave a review for the podcast.
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Gonna Make It Today by Dr. Delight
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hey guys. Now if you've listened to the
previous episode you will have heard the first episode back for
not-so-secret dad's business. Well, that episode I spoke with
Kelly jean-philippe from the welcome to fatherhood podcast
and I've spoken to him and he's been gracious.
Enough to let me share this episode from his podcast, where
(00:23):
I sat down with him. And we spoke about what I was
dealing with. While I was Is on extended break
with the podcast. So, not to bore you with any of
small details because they're all within this episode.
I just thought I'd share it withyou.
If you've not already checked out his podcast hopefully this
(00:44):
will give you just a small tasteof Kelly's podcast and maybe
even wet your appetite to go check out his show.
So thank you Kelly for letting me share this on my podcast.
But for the time being let's getinto Season 4, episode 2 of
welcome to fatherhood podcast with me as Kelly's.
(01:07):
Gas, this is the welcome to fatherhood podcast.
I'm your host. My name is Kelly and I'm here to
remind you however you're listening and wherever you're
listening that is Dad's. We're just like moms except
(01:33):
we're dead. Ha ha.
(01:55):
Welcome back bro. Thank you for joining me on this
new season of 2023. How you been man?
Happy New Year to you. Happy New Year to you, man.
It's great to see your beautifulface, man.
I love I love coming on the showand catching up with you dude.
So I hope things have been goingwell for you.
I heard the first episode of Season 4 and I lost my freaking
(02:17):
mind. So I'm really happy about the
the announcement at the new addition to the family and A man
who appreciates her man, I really appreciate it.
Yeah, we having a baby boy so that will make it two boys.
After that, like I was telling you off camera closing down shop
snip-snip just the whole nine. You know what I mean?
Because we are done after this but we're so excited for this
(02:41):
new addition to our family. You're looking good, bro.
I like the the the clean. Look, the the mustache and the
beard, what's up? Yeah man I didn't have the math,
some massive sword. It burns too but I had a shaving
mishap just the other day so they had to go but yeah man I've
been trying to look after myself.
I'm still working on sobriety you know I've had a few slip-ups
(03:03):
here and there yeah especially living in Australia like it's a
very much a drinking culture here so okay come Christmas
time. The family gets together.
Everybody's got a drink in theirhand.
Is there like a legal drinking age in Australia?
Or is it just kind of like a free-for-all?
Yeah. And how its Legal legal drinking
(03:24):
age is 18. Okay but even then I mean, I
started really drinking when I was 16 and I was I was going to
the Bottle Shop by myself and buy my stuff by myself got you.
And there the day, I turned 18 Iasked them if they wanted to see
my life D and that'll confused. You love.
What do you mean we've been serving you for two years?
I'm like yeah but I just turned 18 today and so yeah that didn't
(03:48):
go down too well but you know, with with With Christmas and New
Year's such as alcohol is rampant.
So I'm not the strongest of men.I caved had a few drinks.
I'm back on sobriety as of New Year's.
Okay. Yeah, you know, like it's a work
in progress, you know, man, looking after myself, trying to
(04:09):
just be as healthy as I can for my family.
Yeah. So both you and I took a break
from our respective podcast, so if you're accustomed to
listening to this show, you recognize Nate's voice, you
recognize the accent, you know, he's from Australia.
Julia and you hos The Not So secret dad's business podcast.
So you and I went on break kind of around the same time.
(04:32):
I'm going to say what like, late, October ashore in October
November ish. Yeah, right.
Yeah. And I really enjoyed watching or
yes, seeing your pictures with your son, Eli online on Facebook
that you've posted over the holidays.
My so talk to me about aside from the sobriety stuff, Of how
(04:53):
was that break been or how has it been for you?
What was it like spending yet? Another holiday season with your
son? It was awesome, man.
We actually went on our first family holiday together.
Oh no, just before or just afterNew Year's actually.
And so we went down to Melbournefor five days, okay?
(05:14):
And how far how far is that fromwhere you are?
It's about an hour's flight and maybe a 12-hour Drive.
Oh, Crowd mutters. Okay.
Yeah, it's so I mean it's it's just down in Victoria in the our
neighboring state. So yeah, went down there for
five days and man, just I'm a huge coffee buff.
(05:35):
I love my coffee and so go on a Melbourne man.
It was great. I was drinking Primo, coffee or
week and and stuff. But I mean as an adult that's
the Highlight for me, right? But we talked to Eli to you
know, to the aquarium. We went to the Skydeck.
So we were able to look over thewhole city, see Marvel Stadium
(05:57):
the MCG where all the major sporting events here.
Look, Grand finals and all that they're played there, okay?
Okay. Overlook the whole city, went to
the the museum, Eli loves his dinosaurs.
So, you know, whence all the dinosaurs there and they had a
movie at the IMAX cinema there. So we went and watched that all
(06:20):
about dinosaurs in the Okay. And then when I think possibly
the highlight of the trip was wewent to an art gallery which was
an immersive Art Gallery. So these paintings were painted
across the floor and up the walls so you could stand on the
art. Take a photo and it looked like
(06:41):
you were in the art piece. I saw that picture.
I think the one where he is standing in front of the grand
piano and he looks like he's playing and I thank your My wife
is standing next to him. Watching him play.
Yeah, that was a cool one as well, because the edge of the
piano, it's literally just painted onto the wall.
So my wife is just standing there with an arm in the air,
(07:03):
like a chicken with and and it'sreally funny.
When you're there. Taking the photo you don't, you
don't see the effect, so you feel really ridiculous and you
look ridiculous to, but then when you actually look at the
photo itself, it's just phenomenal, man, that sounds
like a great time do. That's all.
It was really good. Those a lot of walking involved
(07:26):
and what not but I'll tell you what man, covid hit Melbourne,
hard, they're still recovering, the the leader of Victoria.
He had some really strict lockdown rules and everything
for Victoria. Okay?
So we got down there and it was a real shame, a lot of the
smaller, you know, Mom and Pop type restaurants.
All boarded up. Oh wow.
(07:48):
Yeah. Just all boarded up and anything
else that was really Lee that wewanted to go to eat.
They'll closed for the holidays when open until mid-January, and
I'm like, man. Like this is Melbourne, it's the
hospitality Center of Australia and everybody's closed.
So where'd you end up eating like McDonald's and kindness and
(08:08):
that kind of stuff. Yeah man we add quite a bit of
McDonald's but there was one burger place.
We found that was really really really good and like the vibe,
the aesthetic of the place was awesome.
It was not walk Back in the 90s.Oh sweet.
So it's just like 90s graffiti and artwork all over the walls
(08:29):
that had 90s shows on the TV 90smusic playing and I like all the
good 90s hip-hop and all that. So you felt like you were
walking back in time a little bit and Eli was probably like,
what the heck is this? Yeah, that was this, the music
that you listen to in the 1900s.This is, this is light, light
(08:55):
1900 stuff, isn't it? That stop making me feel old, I
mean, damn, where you put it that way?
He like, makes it seem like it'sfrom the Renaissance or
something. That being said, though, the 90s
in a way, was its own Renaissance Era.
So very true. That is very, very, very true.
(09:19):
So do lesson. Let's talk about where we're You
are, let's just catch up on where you are on, you know,
along your fatherhood Journey. So, Eli is now what six six and
a half. Yeah.
Six and a half, right? So I think the first time you
came on was like two years ago, I think.
(09:40):
And so he was around like four ish, right?
And then you came on not so longago last season.
And so six and a half, bro, how has that been?
What What new changes have you noticed?
And just sort of how your relationship with your son has
evolved its evolving. As I expected, It's Just
(10:03):
Happening sooner than I expected, mmm.
You know, like everybody tells you and I know you've heard this
yourself. Everybody tells the are, you
know, Savor these moments when they're little never, get them
back and I heard it. So often at the came like a
cliche. Okay.
And I was In the end lot. Yeah, I know whatever like it's
(10:25):
cool. It's cool.
Now I've got a six and a half year old that's learned of the
the concept of privacy and he wants to have privacy, you know,
close his door when he gets changed, he wants to shower by
himself. He doesn't want mum to wash his
hair anymore because she doesn'thave the same same Parts as he
(10:47):
does. And so he wants that privacy and
said, Dad, that's going to wash my hair now.
And And and it's insane man. Like I didn't expect all these
kind of things to be popping up it at six and a half and now I'm
going man. I wish I could go back, wish I
could spend more time on the floor.
Playing. I wish we had a gone out
(11:07):
exploring more. I wish I had have just listened
to those those babbles and thosethose, you know, when they're
learning to talk, they just string some syllables together.
That sound like a word. You know.
That's right, dude. But the the Got punch is when I
put him to bed at night, no longer allowed to give him a
(11:29):
kiss on the lips. Dad, I'm too old for that.
Only kissed me on the cheek now.All right, buddy.
So I'm in not and I understand. Not all families are the same
but, you know, we're an affectionate family.
We've always kissed on the lips,you know, so this is a real big,
real big change for us. Yeah, so yeah.
(11:50):
He's now getting to this. The point of where is he's
finding his boundaries and he's setting his own boundaries now,
which I applaud him for because we've taught him from the day.
He was born that his body is hisand he doesn't have to hug or
kiss, anybody, he doesn't want to, it's his body and he can
(12:12):
make that call. And so now he's taking the
initiative to make that call andgo nut.
Kiss me on the cheek that Let's put a name to some of the
(12:55):
things that you're feeling. So let's try to identify what is
it that you're feeling? Or what are the feelings that
you're feeling? As he's telling you, Dad no more
kiss on the lips or asking for privacy.
What are some of those feelings that are attached to these
moments? Well, I mean, obviously it's
mixed feelings, you know? I like her.
(13:17):
He's the one that came up with the idea of privacy and that
came together while we were on holiday because we're all
sharing the one hotel room, okay?
He decided to go into the bathroom to change and that sort
of thing. So he made that call, I was
proud of him. Okay?
Understanding that people like the Privacy, your understanding
(13:39):
these things so you know, I was proud.
But on the on the same same sideit's like it's like I'm losing
Mmm. Yeah.
I'm losing the little boy that Ionce had, you know, I had those,
I went through the stage of losing the baby.
I went through the stage of losing the toddler and now I've
(14:00):
got these kid who's calling the shots for himself.
Yeah. And there's proud as I am for
him doing that. It's like, ah, like he doesn't
need me as much anymore. Hmm.
Yeah, I mean, like, he's still gonna need me.
Sure the Hoff, I get that, but But now, I think needs me in a
different way. Yeah, you know, and so that part
(14:23):
of my fatherhood Journeys over. So it's bittersweet man.
Is there is there another way that it could be framed so that
it doesn't feel like a loss thatI haven't really looked at like,
I'm in a been doing a lot of introspective.
Sure work lately and and really looking at my emotions and my
(14:46):
thought patterns And stuff like that, and recognizing those
emotions for what they are. But, yeah, I mean, there's
there's always a positive in something, right?
I mean, a little off topic, we had realized biological father
pop up last year for the first time in four years asking to me,
(15:07):
they like, No, And they trip. Yeah.
And that turned our lives upsidedown.
And we ended up having to sit down with Eli and had that
conversation that home Look daddy's not guaranteed that made
you but you know, he's the daddy, the chose to be here and
love you. And that's all of them.
So, so, hold on, hold on. Wait a minute.
(15:28):
You can't, you can't just drop that.
And with that, talk about it a little bit longer.
Because I remember a conversation, you and I were
having on one of your appearances where we were kind
of hypothesizing what that conversation would be like.
But not what you're saying is that you actually Ali.
Had that conversation? Yeah, we were forced into that
(15:50):
one. Yeah, my guy.
Sorry, that was, that was interesting.
How did he take it? How did he take it?
He took it really, really, really well.
Surprisingly. Well, you know, it's there was
so much going on. So my memory is a little spotty
because, you know, when there's something.
Yeah, so sure it's so big, you know, it's like a blur but yeah,
(16:13):
we just sat him down and said, hey look, this is the deal.
I'm not the daddy that made you.I met mum when you were already
in her belly, you know? And And and I decided I love mum
and and I was going to love you too, and I'm your, I'm your dad.
Yes. But I'm not a daddy that made
you. And so here's a photo of him and
(16:35):
and whatnot. Would you like to meet him and
he's like, no, I don't want to meet him.
Hmm. That's your, my dad, you know,
and it was interesting. One day in the car, couple of
days, after this conversation, he turned around.
To me goes Dad, I've decided I don't Want to Dad's.
What do you mean you guys like, I don't want to know about about
(16:58):
him. Like, you're my dad.
I'm like, okay, I understand that.
But why is that? It goes, well, you're the dad
that's here, you know, you're always looking after me, you
love me. So you're the dad I want.
That's fine, man. I said, but you know, that's
your decision and if you change your mind in the future, you
know, that's fine. So we ended up reaching back out
(17:19):
to Old mate and said, hey, look,we don't feel that now is The
time for you to meet him and he's you know, he's decided that
he doesn't want to meet you yet.He's not ready.
We're willing to send you a couple of photos of him
throughout his life thus far so you can you know, get an idea of
who he is and what he likes and that sort of thing.
But yeah and then radio silence since then we've got a Merry
(17:44):
Christmas and a Happy New Year from him but we haven't heard
anything on that front. Sure from him sure.
So I mean It's touchy for everyone, you know?
But this is where I was saying like there's a positive in
everything, right? Because at first, I was a mess.
I was 22. I isolated myself from the
(18:07):
family because I was trying to figure out suddenly where I was
going to fit in was I going to be ousted, was I gonna, you
know, was was I no longer going to be dad and I was going to
become a stepdad and we you know, at all And a lawyers and
child psychologist and all this sort of stuff, and, and the
(18:28):
lawyers are platinum. And that was a, that was a real
kick in the ducts as well, because she kept referring to
the biological father as Dad andme as stepdad.
And I'm like, well, well, well no, I'm his father, Yes, but in
the eyes of the law. And so we found out that if he
does decide to become involved, that he can step back in and
(18:50):
pick up his parental rights. That's if he so chooses.
But the the positive thing that came out or out of all of this
was that it made me realize I become complacent in my
relationship and just going through the motions.
You know. So really put a rocket up my
butt and I started seeing my relationship for what it really
(19:14):
was. You know?
And and and started making the effort on my part that.
Hey, I've got to be more intimate with my wife.
I need To, I need to reform thatconnection because we will be
coming like, roommates, mmm, youknow, we even got married and
went before we got married, we were having these issues.
(19:36):
We just assumed it was the stress of planning weddings and
all that sort of the. But then once were married and
we realize that these issues arestill there, I was like man
you're going to do something that otherwise you lose this
woman, you got to lose your family.
So that's where I'm really grateful for him.
Having popped up and go, hey look!
(19:57):
Can I meet here? Because like I said it really
lit That Fire Within me to go. Hey, look, I've got it was
almost Primal was like, I've gotto protect my family.
Yeah, you know. And so I started they're really
focusing on my intimacy, my my connection with my wife and That
were in possibly one of the bestplaces we've been in our
(20:20):
relationships. That's right, so somebody might
hear this and say man that's awesome, that you've taken that
initiative, as a result of that a cynical person might say, why
did it have to take that for youto come to that realization?
How would you respond to that cynical perspective?
(20:41):
Well, when you complacent, you've got blinders on having
you don't see it. See things for what it really is
your complacent. Like, you're just you're going
through the motions, you know? So, for me anyway, I just didn't
see it. It's like couldn't see the
forest for the trees. It was too busy.
Looking at what I was doing in the relationship.
(21:04):
Not what I wasn't doing? Hmm.
See more about that. So I was focusing on, oh well,
you know, I go to work, I provide I'm coming home, I do
the cooking so I'm feed them. Family.
You are do everything. I'm supposed to.
I manage my son's little Ethel, little Athletics group.
(21:25):
So I'm actively involved in his life.
Like I'm doing everything I should as a father Anna as a
husband wasn't until I had that shake up.
That I had to really take that step back and look at what I
wasn't doing and what I wasn't doing.
(21:46):
What Was having that that intimate time with my part, not
just even just sitting on the couch together and watching TV.
I was just disconnected and whenyou're disconnected, you don't
get a clear signal. I guess it's almost like a
telephone call. You can catch parts of the
conversation if the signal is bad but you don't get the full
(22:07):
full meaning of the conversation.
Yeah. And that's kind of what it was
like when I was in this complacent, sort of spot was I
was I was here. The parts of the conversation
that I wanted to hear because I thought I was doing everything
but there was all this other stuff that I was missing once
that connection became clearer. I saw what I wasn't doing.
(22:29):
I saw what I was missing and just started focusing on that.
And that's that's led to me really being like super
introspective and working on myself, even further.
I appreciate this level of transparency.
See and just allowing me and ourlisteners to get into something
(22:55):
that is so personal. So intimate and so recent and
fresh, right? Like you're currently in this
space right now. Let's spend a little bit time
talking about for you some of the things aside from not
spending that intimate time withyour wife what other one or two
items have you identified that has help or that could help take
(23:19):
your relationship with your wife, with your son, even to the
next level working on myself. That's a big bug.
It's really hard to be introspective.
It's really hard to admit where your shortcomings.
Our ego is a beautiful thing. He got was like a mask.
(23:43):
Now, when I'm talking about ego,I'm not using it in the
traditional definition that people would use.
The sure I'm talking about ego, being the sense of self, okay?
That's how we view ourselves. Elves.
And so we think we got it all down pat and we're killing it.
(24:04):
Okay, that's great. But I'm sure there are things in
your own life that you can improve to become a better
person. You know, whether that be
sobriety, for example, if you'rean addict or an alcoholic or or
whatever, but this is not talking just substances either,
(24:24):
it could be that. You're addicted to your phone.
You end up with straw paralysis and you sit there on the couch,
just scrolling, do not connect it.
It could be an addiction to porn.
And so, then that is taking awayfrom your intimate relationship
with your partner. Because you're not really there
(24:44):
in the moment when you are intimate or it may even just
shut down your intimacy all together.
Yeah, you know. So another thing on that
checklist is improving yourself and I'm huge.
Proponent for self-improvement, and I didn't even think about it
until I started not-so-secret dad's business.
(25:05):
And I started talking to personal development, coaches
and psychologists, and therapists, and I'm gone.
Wow, it was like The Shining, I'm shining a light and now,
holding up a mirror that lights bouncing straight back at me and
I'm seeing all these short shortcomings.
So I feel like I'm sort of disjointed.
(25:27):
Yeah, but it's kind of like the oxygen mask situation on an
airplane. You go to put your own oxygen
mask on before you can help others.
And this is what it is with personal growth in order to
really improve or have a better better foundation in your
family. It's personal development
(25:49):
self-improvement, if I'm a better person, I'm finally
feeling better about myself. I'm going to feel better about
everything. Anything else around it?
(26:35):
I was having this conversation with a group of dads and someone
made this point that I think it's a really strong point when
it comes to self improvement. It seems as though.
Generally speaking the individual is at a moment and
their life where things are not as they want it to be.
(27:00):
All right, so it's a low moment and at that moment is like,
yeah, yeah, I need to do something to improve myself.
The point that my buddy made waswhat about those moments when we
are feeling good about ourselves.
What is the value of self improvement during those
moments? Wouldn't it?
Make sense? Also for sort of like adopting,
(27:24):
a default of whether I'm at a low moment, whether I'm at a
high moment, I can always build and improve on that moment where
I'm at. Right, yeah, yeah, man.
And a big, big one I've learned about recently is gratitude,
man. Mmm, we're always grateful for
(27:45):
things when things have gone really well fans, when things
are going good. You know, I'm grateful that I've
got my family. This is Waterpark by having such
a great time. We're connected.
That's awesome. Great.
But again it's like when when helies biological father popped up
and it was a A real low point for me, but again, I look back
(28:08):
and I'm grateful because it reignited that that passion in
me to to go, hey, look, my family, I'm going to protect my
family, but I feel like I'm about to lose something more.
Hmm. And in the moment, yeah, it's
low point, but now I'm grateful for it.
You know, whether it be the low point to the high points, like
you just got to be grateful. Regardless.
(28:31):
But there is always room to roomto build.
There's always room for. Yeah, absolutely do and there
was such a helpful perspective for me to hear because you're
right. The default is, you know, when
things are great, it's almost like, you know, when things are
great I don't feel like I reallyneed to improve on anything
(28:53):
right now because I can just maintain it where it is right
here, right? And then it, then it turns into
compliance. And then it turns into
complacency and then, whatever strong Foundation.
I thought I was leaning on has been eroding this whole time.
Absolutely. Yes.
And then, the slightest thing just comes to to threaten it.
(29:17):
And boom, it begins to crumble so fast that it leaves me
wondering how the hell did we get here?
So quickly, when I thought I wascoasting this whole time and I
guess that's the point. Point.
This this sense of things don't need to change the sense of if
it ain't broke, why fix it? And it's not necessarily a
(29:39):
matter of it being broke and needing fixing.
But if it's good. Why not make it better?
If it's if it's better. Why not make it even more
better? Yeah.
Look, you can have a beautiful single story heart but that's
what you put another floor on. That you've doubled the amount
of space. You've got ya, you know, If
(30:01):
you've improved that house, you've improved absolutely but
you can proved it. Absolutely.
And so there's always there's always room for improvement and
and like I said through that, I think gratitude is a big one and
that's where I come back to where we were with started off.
Was that with all these changes that Eli's gone through?
Yeah, it's bittersweet. I feel like I'm losing
(30:23):
something, but I'm grateful for because he's growing into this,
this young Man, then I'm I'm extremely proud of, and you
there to witness it. Yeah, it's making some awesome
decisions man. For example, a big one.
He loves his Call of Duty. Hmm.
(30:44):
Now, so what you want? I mean again, we're all
different households. We all have different, you know,
different parameters that are blindly.
Yep, so if you don't agree with me here, that's fine.
I respect your opinion but I allow my son to play Call of
Duty. Is he's just fascinated by the
military and former conflicts. And I mean once we spent an hour
(31:08):
in the Bookshop just looking at World War Two but you know like
you just fascinated by it and recently he was playing Modern
Warfare and there was a level where there were innocent people
being killed in this particular level and he's come to me and
he's gone. Hey Dad, like this is what's
what's happening when I've had alook, So I've spoken my wife.
(31:31):
Has she gone? Yeah, I'm not comfortable with
that. And we sat down with him and
said last night and said, hey could you bring us that day?
We're going to be putting that one away.
You can play the others but thatone is going away and we
explained to him, you've done nothing wrong, but we're
extremely proud of you that you have come to us and said, hey
(31:52):
this is in the game and I think it's problematic.
What do you think so? You know, that's where I'm
extremely grateful. Like yeah, I don't have the
little smooshy kid anymore, but I mean, I'm clearly doing
something right. It was his six and a half and
he's making these decisions man.That that is it's both and and
(32:18):
ideal at the same time, it's a reality.
What I mean by that is, I think,every parent wants as an ideal a
scenario where your Old feels comfortable enough bringing to
your attention, or including youinto major decisions that
(32:38):
they're making. I think, every parent who is a
parent wants to say, you know what, whatever it is, I do is
sort of geared towards that ideal to keep it as just.
An ideal is cool, but how do yourespond to it when that ideal is
(32:59):
Is the reality that you find yourself in at the moment and
what you just shared is such a beautiful example of that here
you are. But you're feeling all of these
things because your son is taking more of a, his, his
individuality is stepping out a lot more.
His independence is becoming more established, right?
(33:22):
He has the mental capacity. His brain has been developed to
the point where he is able to Frenchie Aid between what he
wants and what he doesn't want at a deeper level and so you're
watching all of this happen and the fruits of that are him
saying, I'm gonna ask for my privacy.
(33:43):
Now Mommy can't do this anymore.I'm sure she's dealing with what
that means for her. Right?
Yeah, Daddy I don't want you to kiss me on the lips anymore and
you're like, oh my God, my son is growing up way too fast.
Leslie, he's playing this game and it's like, Dad.
I don't feel comfortable with this.
I don't feel comfortable with this and he didn't go hide and,
(34:08):
you know, try to do something about it himself.
He invited you into his space tosay that I don't feel
comfortable with this and respects.
The fact that you and your wife and him as a family made the
decision. Hey buddy, we're going to put
this one away and it's like, well, there's the ideal
actualized like, right. Here in this moment.
(34:31):
Like that's a beautiful thing, bro.
It is, it is man. And that's why I say it's better
this way. I feel like I'm losing that
little little boy with mine, butat the same time, he's just
making me so proud. I mean, he's even, he's been
asking a lot lately for us to give him a baby sister.
Mmm. Now, as you, well know, I mean,
(34:53):
we've got fertility issues in our family and we've been trying
for a while now to have a Baby and everytime it.
Brings it up. It just it shatters my wife's
heart. And so now we're at the point
where we're happened to had sex talk with him and help him
understand how babies are made because he thinks that he was
(35:16):
under the impression that he could ask for a baby sister and
we could just get pregnant and give him one and we're going.
Hey, look buddy. Like be really want to but this
is, this is We're struggling. This is how babies are made.
This is what's going on with Momand Dad, you know, it's just not
(35:37):
working out properly. Then he's our, I get that.
Well, when I get a baby sister, can I do?
I get to feed her? Well, that's not your
responsibility. It's mum and Dad's
responsibility. Your responsibility is just to
be a big brother. Yeah.
And he's like, yeah but what if I want to feed Feed the baby.
(36:01):
Absolutely. If that's what you want to do,
we're not going to stop you fromdoing that.
We're not going to expect you todo that, to do that, because
then you end up end up parent. Icing the child essentially,
like, you know, there's, there'salways a scenario of the older
child is child. Always ends up taking care of
the younger kids and their mum and dad are able to do their own
(36:25):
thing. It's like not, you don't have to
do that. Your only job, To be a kid, a
big brother. You don't have to do anything
else, man. That's the same message.
That's the same message that I'mpreaching to jukey.
Right now, as we are expecting, you know, his baby brother.
He doesn't have to take any responsibility and I have
(36:46):
incorrect people who say to him.Oh, so, when your baby brother
comes, you have to protect them.You have to do this, you have to
do that, and I step in and I say, actually he doesn't have to
do anything. The only thing that he needs to
do Is love his baby brother and be the best big brother that he
already is. All the other stuff.
(37:06):
The protecting the feeding the this, the all of the other
responsibilities and expectations, that's for me to
do, that's for my wife to do. And of course, we want to help
incorporate him and things so that he doesn't feel alienated.
But for right now, at two and a half, when his brother is born
(37:27):
because his brother is going to be born sometime in Between late
February and early. March God willing, even though
today at the appointment his head is like down down so we're
like, wait a minute, do you havedo you have other plans homie?
(37:47):
But yeah, you know, when, when when baby comes we want to
instill this this sense in him that you don't have to be a
grown-up, the moment, your brother shows up, You don't have
to, you don't have to be a parent.
You don't have to, you don't have to do anything.
You can still be a kid and love on your brother and we'll create
(38:10):
that safe space for the both of you.
So enjoy a full childhood as you're maturing into the faces
of your life. And to me, that to me, that's a
very important message to conveyto him at this moment because
Yeah, there is no because just because I think it's a very
(38:32):
important message to convey to him at this moment.
And what I, what I love though, is the fact that at six and a
half, he's wanting to step up and take that responsibility.
It's not that it's not that he'she's he thinks that he's
supposed to, he's just like, heylook, he wants to.
(38:52):
Can I do that? You know.
All right there. And so again it's all part of
this growing up thing that he's doing eyes.
Like you said, the individualityis finally starting to really
come out. And, I mean, even, even his
personality is just evolving at Breakneck speeds, man.
Like legit is the latest word. That's, that's the word of the
(39:15):
hour at the moment. Aw, dad, did you see that?
That college it crashed into theother car.
Ya did ya did and you know againcuz he's a he He's at school.
He just finished kindergarten that last year.
So starting first grade this year, okay.
(39:35):
And so he comes home with randomrandom stuff that I haven't
taught him. For example, one day I come
home, I've picked him up from school on a Friday.
I knock off work on early on a Friday so I get to pick him up
from school on the Friday and we're just getting home and were
(39:57):
walking to the door and he goes Can I get a hug?
Oh yeah. And I'm like, what?
What did you are you for real, man?
And I mean, we don't let this kid on the internet.
He doesn't watch YouTube or anything like that, no more.
Where did you get all the kids at school door?
I forgot. I forgot about the other kids.
(40:17):
Yeah, bro. Yeah, I forgot about the other
kids but you know, like it's just I keep repeating myself,
but it's bittersweet man. There are Things that you like
you Champion him. Like ya, go, son.
And then, there are other times.It just like, I wish.
I wish you wouldn't. Yeah, I love you.
(40:40):
I understand where you're comingcoming from up.
Please don't just please, don't.Don't don't be that guy.
Yeah, my son, you know, he doesn't go to school yet, but he
is often with his cousins and myone, nephew goes to daycare and
my other nephew. You is in pre-k and you know
(41:02):
they just come and when they allget together and they're playing
and he just ends up picking up all of the stuff that they say
and I'm just like, buddy. So his thing now is you look at
that booty that booty, stinky you.
(41:23):
So couple days ago, I am changing his pull up.
Then it's like you daddy my penis stinky.
You you look at your belly. It's and I said, hey buddy.
Listen, let's take a break from all of the stinky and all of the
Au and all of that stuff. Okay?
(41:44):
Because you are not yet preparedto use that word because you
could really hurt somebody's feelings by pointing out
something of theirs. And then saying, if you and then
saying stinky. All right, so let's let's take
Good. Let's take a break from that.
(42:05):
And then I can just tell that hedoesn't see what I see.
Obviously, right, he doesn't have the scope of understanding
that I have obviously but there's something in the way
that he was looking at me that his mind was like his wheels
were turning. And in that moment I think he
made a determination. Okay, I'm going to trust my dad
(42:28):
on this one and you know since that day the level of ill You
and booty and stinky has like significantly decreased like he
doesn't he doesn't use those words anymore because for the
time being something that I saidto him clicked for the time
(42:48):
being, that's just not that's just not what we're going to do.
And so I remember saying to him,you know, there are other words
that you have available that, you know, how to use.
Let's use those words but this one You don't quite know how to
use that word yet, so let's takea break from that one.
Alright. And then he was just like, okay
(43:09):
Daddy and and that was that, butI'm not entirely where you are.
But I think I might the beginning of this phase where
you are right now, because even I'm starting to experience some
of those moments of loss of something that I used to do with
(43:29):
them, you know, every night, when I put him to sleep.
Leap how the last thing I'll sayto him is I love you captain and
he would say it. I love you captain and that was
the last thing that would say toeach other and then he would go
to sleep. Now I have to be like, aw, come
on, dude. Can you say it please so that I
can feel better? Yeah, yeah.
(43:52):
Yeah, yeah. I'm not a lot.
I'm not feeling it man. Yeah.
Yeah. You know I'm like last night I
told him. I was like, I love you captain
and he was like okay. I'm like dude.
(44:13):
Come on. Can you just say it please?
And he was like I love you Captain my God.
Thank you. Thank you.
Yeah, it isn't it funny how we rely so emotionally on that
kids, as much as I do. It's
(44:59):
man, this has been a really a really good conversation.
As always, it's been a really rich conversation.
These moments are never going togo away.
I don't think this this sense ofBittersweet loss transition.
I mean, just throw it all in a blender like that's basically
what we've spoken about for the past hour.
(45:19):
It's not Go away. What are some things?
What are one or two things that you're doing, presently to help
you cope through these Trent, this moment of transition as
it's happening. I'm just, I'm trying to be as
accepting with as possible, likeit's really hard to her, to deny
(45:42):
that it's happening. It's really easy to deny that
it's happening, you know, you know, like who you look back at
baby? Photos of stuff you alone.
Miss the little little squish. Aw, I love when he was cute and
chubby and this that and the other but you're not living in
the moment. You're going back and God I miss
I miss I miss. And so what I'm trying to do is
(46:05):
just live in the moment and go. Yeah, okay.
I miss these things like becausehe's growing up but this is who
I have in front of me now, right?
And so this is the child that I'm parenting now.
Not Three-year-old, that was standing in the in the kitchen.
Go Daddy Burgers, you know, he'snot the hi, Dad, can I help you,
(46:31):
cook? You know, and so no, it's not
what it used to be but I'm accepting what it is.
Yeah and and you know what? One day, it's going to go from
me being called Daddy to being called Dad to being called bra.
She didn't know. So again, And it's gonna change.
(46:52):
I just have to accept that. Fact, know if I'm ready for the
brass stage, I'm hoping that still another 10 years because
Duke, you're ready, he already got to the dad stage.
I mean like presently. Sometimes he's like, hey Daddy,
but other times it's like Dad recently.
(47:15):
His thing is, you guys and me and my wife were like, whoa,
whoa, whoa. Hey listen bro we're not we're
not doing this you guys. It's Mom and Dad but yeah I
think what you say is very spot on recognizing what it was
(47:35):
appreciating what is and just fully giving yourself into that
moment those moments? Yeah, just just being grateful
man. That's all it is because again
it's really easy to focus on. The - and really get yourself
down in the dumps, but if you'regrateful for, what is in the
(47:58):
moment now? Like you're on cloud nine, it's
as simple as that brother, I can't thank you enough, man is
always a good time catching up with you.
It's always fun because can you just tell our listeners, what
time? What date, and time it is for
you right now. It's Saturday, the 14th of
(48:18):
January and it's currently 7:25 in the morning and on my side it
is Friday, January 13, and it is324 p.m. my time so it's always
good talking to you from the future.
It's nice that you like to engage with your past.
(48:41):
So night, that's the thing you can't ignore the past.
You can do. I can run from it all with with
it, you know. Okay.
Rafiki. Okay.
Listen, dude, I appreciate you very much, brother.
I hope you have a good rest of your Saturday, looking forward
(49:03):
to the next time you come on thePod.
And so, let's just mention this for those of our listeners who
may want to tune in to your podcast, for the time being
you're going to extend your break.
Yeah yep. I'm on extended fright just try
(49:26):
Back into a position where I canserve to my fullest capacity.
Yeah I appreciate that. Yeah that's that's the part that
I wanted to make sure we said explicitly and that you are on a
bit of a break. But listen completely support
the reason why you're on the break completely and behind you
(49:48):
and your journey to get into a better head space completely
supporting however long it takesweather.
Or not, you decide to turn on the mic, again is entirely a
different thing, but what's important and what needs to be
stated is that you are taking the proper steps to make sure
(50:09):
that you are healthy and all aspects.
So that you can continue to be the great asset to your family
that you are so kudos to you forfor putting aside, all sorts of
Seneschal detractors and distractions to really focus on
(50:30):
yourself. And that is crucially,
crucially, crucially important. So, thank you for taking care of
you, brother.
Hey guys. Now if you've listened to the
previous episode you will have heard the first episode back for
not-so-secret dad's business. Well, that episode I spoke with
Kelly jean-philippe from the welcome to fatherhood podcast
and I've spoken to him and he's been gracious.
Enough to let me share this episode from his podcast, where
(00:23):
I sat down with him. And we spoke about what I was
dealing with. While I was Is on extended break
with the podcast. So, not to bore you with any of
small details because they're all within this episode.
I just thought I'd share it withyou.
If you've not already checked out his podcast hopefully this
(00:44):
will give you just a small tasteof Kelly's podcast and maybe
even wet your appetite to go check out his show.
So thank you Kelly for letting me share this on my podcast.
But for the time being let's getinto Season 4, episode 2 of
welcome to fatherhood podcast with me as Kelly's.
(01:07):
Gas, this is the welcome to fatherhood podcast.
I'm your host. My name is Kelly and I'm here to
remind you however you're listening and wherever you're
listening that is Dad's. We're just like moms except
(01:33):
we're dead. Ha ha.
(01:55):
Welcome back bro. Thank you for joining me on this
new season of 2023. How you been man?
Happy New Year to you. Happy New Year to you, man.
It's great to see your beautifulface, man.
I love I love coming on the showand catching up with you dude.
So I hope things have been goingwell for you.
I heard the first episode of Season 4 and I lost my freaking
(02:17):
mind. So I'm really happy about the
the announcement at the new addition to the family and A man
who appreciates her man, I really appreciate it.
Yeah, we having a baby boy so that will make it two boys.
After that, like I was telling you off camera closing down shop
snip-snip just the whole nine. You know what I mean?
Because we are done after this but we're so excited for this
(02:41):
new addition to our family. You're looking good, bro.
I like the the the clean. Look, the the mustache and the
beard, what's up? Yeah man I didn't have the math,
some massive sword. It burns too but I had a shaving
mishap just the other day so they had to go but yeah man I've
been trying to look after myself.
I'm still working on sobriety you know I've had a few slip-ups
(03:03):
here and there yeah especially living in Australia like it's a
very much a drinking culture here so okay come Christmas
time. The family gets together.
Everybody's got a drink in theirhand.
Is there like a legal drinking age in Australia?
Or is it just kind of like a free-for-all?
Yeah. And how its Legal legal drinking
(03:24):
age is 18. Okay but even then I mean, I
started really drinking when I was 16 and I was I was going to
the Bottle Shop by myself and buy my stuff by myself got you.
And there the day, I turned 18 Iasked them if they wanted to see
my life D and that'll confused. You love.
What do you mean we've been serving you for two years?
I'm like yeah but I just turned 18 today and so yeah that didn't
(03:48):
go down too well but you know, with with With Christmas and New
Year's such as alcohol is rampant.
So I'm not the strongest of men.I caved had a few drinks.
I'm back on sobriety as of New Year's.
Okay. Yeah, you know, like it's a work
in progress, you know, man, looking after myself, trying to
(04:09):
just be as healthy as I can for my family.
Yeah. So both you and I took a break
from our respective podcast, so if you're accustomed to
listening to this show, you recognize Nate's voice, you
recognize the accent, you know, he's from Australia.
Julia and you hos The Not So secret dad's business podcast.
So you and I went on break kind of around the same time.
(04:32):
I'm going to say what like, late, October ashore in October
November ish. Yeah, right.
Yeah. And I really enjoyed watching or
yes, seeing your pictures with your son, Eli online on Facebook
that you've posted over the holidays.
My so talk to me about aside from the sobriety stuff, Of how
(04:53):
was that break been or how has it been for you?
What was it like spending yet? Another holiday season with your
son? It was awesome, man.
We actually went on our first family holiday together.
Oh no, just before or just afterNew Year's actually.
And so we went down to Melbournefor five days, okay?
(05:14):
And how far how far is that fromwhere you are?
It's about an hour's flight and maybe a 12-hour Drive.
Oh, Crowd mutters. Okay.
Yeah, it's so I mean it's it's just down in Victoria in the our
neighboring state. So yeah, went down there for
five days and man, just I'm a huge coffee buff.
(05:35):
I love my coffee and so go on a Melbourne man.
It was great. I was drinking Primo, coffee or
week and and stuff. But I mean as an adult that's
the Highlight for me, right? But we talked to Eli to you
know, to the aquarium. We went to the Skydeck.
So we were able to look over thewhole city, see Marvel Stadium
(05:57):
the MCG where all the major sporting events here.
Look, Grand finals and all that they're played there, okay?
Okay. Overlook the whole city, went to
the the museum, Eli loves his dinosaurs.
So, you know, whence all the dinosaurs there and they had a
movie at the IMAX cinema there. So we went and watched that all
(06:20):
about dinosaurs in the Okay. And then when I think possibly
the highlight of the trip was wewent to an art gallery which was
an immersive Art Gallery. So these paintings were painted
across the floor and up the walls so you could stand on the
art. Take a photo and it looked like
(06:41):
you were in the art piece. I saw that picture.
I think the one where he is standing in front of the grand
piano and he looks like he's playing and I thank your My wife
is standing next to him. Watching him play.
Yeah, that was a cool one as well, because the edge of the
piano, it's literally just painted onto the wall.
So my wife is just standing there with an arm in the air,
(07:03):
like a chicken with and and it'sreally funny.
When you're there. Taking the photo you don't, you
don't see the effect, so you feel really ridiculous and you
look ridiculous to, but then when you actually look at the
photo itself, it's just phenomenal, man, that sounds
like a great time do. That's all.
It was really good. Those a lot of walking involved
(07:26):
and what not but I'll tell you what man, covid hit Melbourne,
hard, they're still recovering, the the leader of Victoria.
He had some really strict lockdown rules and everything
for Victoria. Okay?
So we got down there and it was a real shame, a lot of the
smaller, you know, Mom and Pop type restaurants.
All boarded up. Oh wow.
(07:48):
Yeah. Just all boarded up and anything
else that was really Lee that wewanted to go to eat.
They'll closed for the holidays when open until mid-January, and
I'm like, man. Like this is Melbourne, it's the
hospitality Center of Australia and everybody's closed.
So where'd you end up eating like McDonald's and kindness and
(08:08):
that kind of stuff. Yeah man we add quite a bit of
McDonald's but there was one burger place.
We found that was really really really good and like the vibe,
the aesthetic of the place was awesome.
It was not walk Back in the 90s.Oh sweet.
So it's just like 90s graffiti and artwork all over the walls
(08:29):
that had 90s shows on the TV 90smusic playing and I like all the
good 90s hip-hop and all that. So you felt like you were
walking back in time a little bit and Eli was probably like,
what the heck is this? Yeah, that was this, the music
that you listen to in the 1900s.This is, this is light, light
(08:55):
1900 stuff, isn't it? That stop making me feel old, I
mean, damn, where you put it that way?
He like, makes it seem like it'sfrom the Renaissance or
something. That being said, though, the 90s
in a way, was its own Renaissance Era.
So very true. That is very, very, very true.
(09:19):
So do lesson. Let's talk about where we're You
are, let's just catch up on where you are on, you know,
along your fatherhood Journey. So, Eli is now what six six and
a half. Yeah.
Six and a half, right? So I think the first time you
came on was like two years ago, I think.
(09:40):
And so he was around like four ish, right?
And then you came on not so longago last season.
And so six and a half, bro, how has that been?
What What new changes have you noticed?
And just sort of how your relationship with your son has
evolved its evolving. As I expected, It's Just
(10:03):
Happening sooner than I expected, mmm.
You know, like everybody tells you and I know you've heard this
yourself. Everybody tells the are, you
know, Savor these moments when they're little never, get them
back and I heard it. So often at the came like a
cliche. Okay.
And I was In the end lot. Yeah, I know whatever like it's
(10:25):
cool. It's cool.
Now I've got a six and a half year old that's learned of the
the concept of privacy and he wants to have privacy, you know,
close his door when he gets changed, he wants to shower by
himself. He doesn't want mum to wash his
hair anymore because she doesn'thave the same same Parts as he
(10:47):
does. And so he wants that privacy and
said, Dad, that's going to wash my hair now.
And And and it's insane man. Like I didn't expect all these
kind of things to be popping up it at six and a half and now I'm
going man. I wish I could go back, wish I
could spend more time on the floor.
Playing. I wish we had a gone out
(11:07):
exploring more. I wish I had have just listened
to those those babbles and thosethose, you know, when they're
learning to talk, they just string some syllables together.
That sound like a word. You know.
That's right, dude. But the the Got punch is when I
put him to bed at night, no longer allowed to give him a
(11:29):
kiss on the lips. Dad, I'm too old for that.
Only kissed me on the cheek now.All right, buddy.
So I'm in not and I understand. Not all families are the same
but, you know, we're an affectionate family.
We've always kissed on the lips,you know, so this is a real big,
real big change for us. Yeah, so yeah.
(11:50):
He's now getting to this. The point of where is he's
finding his boundaries and he's setting his own boundaries now,
which I applaud him for because we've taught him from the day.
He was born that his body is hisand he doesn't have to hug or
kiss, anybody, he doesn't want to, it's his body and he can
(12:12):
make that call. And so now he's taking the
initiative to make that call andgo nut.
Kiss me on the cheek that Let's put a name to some of the
(12:55):
things that you're feeling. So let's try to identify what is
it that you're feeling? Or what are the feelings that
you're feeling? As he's telling you, Dad no more
kiss on the lips or asking for privacy.
What are some of those feelings that are attached to these
moments? Well, I mean, obviously it's
mixed feelings, you know? I like her.
(13:17):
He's the one that came up with the idea of privacy and that
came together while we were on holiday because we're all
sharing the one hotel room, okay?
He decided to go into the bathroom to change and that sort
of thing. So he made that call, I was
proud of him. Okay?
Understanding that people like the Privacy, your understanding
(13:39):
these things so you know, I was proud.
But on the on the same same sideit's like it's like I'm losing
Mmm. Yeah.
I'm losing the little boy that Ionce had, you know, I had those,
I went through the stage of losing the baby.
I went through the stage of losing the toddler and now I've
(14:00):
got these kid who's calling the shots for himself.
Yeah. And there's proud as I am for
him doing that. It's like, ah, like he doesn't
need me as much anymore. Hmm.
Yeah, I mean, like, he's still gonna need me.
Sure the Hoff, I get that, but But now, I think needs me in a
different way. Yeah, you know, and so that part
(14:23):
of my fatherhood Journeys over. So it's bittersweet man.
Is there is there another way that it could be framed so that
it doesn't feel like a loss thatI haven't really looked at like,
I'm in a been doing a lot of introspective.
Sure work lately and and really looking at my emotions and my
(14:46):
thought patterns And stuff like that, and recognizing those
emotions for what they are. But, yeah, I mean, there's
there's always a positive in something, right?
I mean, a little off topic, we had realized biological father
pop up last year for the first time in four years asking to me,
(15:07):
they like, No, And they trip. Yeah.
And that turned our lives upsidedown.
And we ended up having to sit down with Eli and had that
conversation that home Look daddy's not guaranteed that made
you but you know, he's the daddy, the chose to be here and
love you. And that's all of them.
So, so, hold on, hold on. Wait a minute.
(15:28):
You can't, you can't just drop that.
And with that, talk about it a little bit longer.
Because I remember a conversation, you and I were
having on one of your appearances where we were kind
of hypothesizing what that conversation would be like.
But not what you're saying is that you actually Ali.
Had that conversation? Yeah, we were forced into that
(15:50):
one. Yeah, my guy.
Sorry, that was, that was interesting.
How did he take it? How did he take it?
He took it really, really, really well.
Surprisingly. Well, you know, it's there was
so much going on. So my memory is a little spotty
because, you know, when there's something.
Yeah, so sure it's so big, you know, it's like a blur but yeah,
(16:13):
we just sat him down and said, hey look, this is the deal.
I'm not the daddy that made you.I met mum when you were already
in her belly, you know? And And and I decided I love mum
and and I was going to love you too, and I'm your, I'm your dad.
Yes. But I'm not a daddy that made
you. And so here's a photo of him and
(16:35):
and whatnot. Would you like to meet him and
he's like, no, I don't want to meet him.
Hmm. That's your, my dad, you know,
and it was interesting. One day in the car, couple of
days, after this conversation, he turned around.
To me goes Dad, I've decided I don't Want to Dad's.
What do you mean you guys like, I don't want to know about about
(16:58):
him. Like, you're my dad.
I'm like, okay, I understand that.
But why is that? It goes, well, you're the dad
that's here, you know, you're always looking after me, you
love me. So you're the dad I want.
That's fine, man. I said, but you know, that's
your decision and if you change your mind in the future, you
know, that's fine. So we ended up reaching back out
(17:19):
to Old mate and said, hey, look,we don't feel that now is The
time for you to meet him and he's you know, he's decided that
he doesn't want to meet you yet.He's not ready.
We're willing to send you a couple of photos of him
throughout his life thus far so you can you know, get an idea of
who he is and what he likes and that sort of thing.
But yeah and then radio silence since then we've got a Merry
(17:44):
Christmas and a Happy New Year from him but we haven't heard
anything on that front. Sure from him sure.
So I mean It's touchy for everyone, you know?
But this is where I was saying like there's a positive in
everything, right? Because at first, I was a mess.
I was 22. I isolated myself from the
(18:07):
family because I was trying to figure out suddenly where I was
going to fit in was I going to be ousted, was I gonna, you
know, was was I no longer going to be dad and I was going to
become a stepdad and we you know, at all And a lawyers and
child psychologist and all this sort of stuff, and, and the
(18:28):
lawyers are platinum. And that was a, that was a real
kick in the ducts as well, because she kept referring to
the biological father as Dad andme as stepdad.
And I'm like, well, well, well no, I'm his father, Yes, but in
the eyes of the law. And so we found out that if he
does decide to become involved, that he can step back in and
(18:50):
pick up his parental rights. That's if he so chooses.
But the the positive thing that came out or out of all of this
was that it made me realize I become complacent in my
relationship and just going through the motions.
You know. So really put a rocket up my
butt and I started seeing my relationship for what it really
(19:14):
was. You know?
And and and started making the effort on my part that.
Hey, I've got to be more intimate with my wife.
I need To, I need to reform thatconnection because we will be
coming like, roommates, mmm, youknow, we even got married and
went before we got married, we were having these issues.
(19:36):
We just assumed it was the stress of planning weddings and
all that sort of the. But then once were married and
we realize that these issues arestill there, I was like man
you're going to do something that otherwise you lose this
woman, you got to lose your family.
So that's where I'm really grateful for him.
Having popped up and go, hey look!
(19:57):
Can I meet here? Because like I said it really
lit That Fire Within me to go. Hey, look, I've got it was
almost Primal was like, I've gotto protect my family.
Yeah, you know. And so I started they're really
focusing on my intimacy, my my connection with my wife and That
were in possibly one of the bestplaces we've been in our
(20:20):
relationships. That's right, so somebody might
hear this and say man that's awesome, that you've taken that
initiative, as a result of that a cynical person might say, why
did it have to take that for youto come to that realization?
How would you respond to that cynical perspective?
(20:41):
Well, when you complacent, you've got blinders on having
you don't see it. See things for what it really is
your complacent. Like, you're just you're going
through the motions, you know? So, for me anyway, I just didn't
see it. It's like couldn't see the
forest for the trees. It was too busy.
Looking at what I was doing in the relationship.
(21:04):
Not what I wasn't doing? Hmm.
See more about that. So I was focusing on, oh well,
you know, I go to work, I provide I'm coming home, I do
the cooking so I'm feed them. Family.
You are do everything. I'm supposed to.
I manage my son's little Ethel, little Athletics group.
(21:25):
So I'm actively involved in his life.
Like I'm doing everything I should as a father Anna as a
husband wasn't until I had that shake up.
That I had to really take that step back and look at what I
wasn't doing and what I wasn't doing.
(21:46):
What Was having that that intimate time with my part, not
just even just sitting on the couch together and watching TV.
I was just disconnected and whenyou're disconnected, you don't
get a clear signal. I guess it's almost like a
telephone call. You can catch parts of the
conversation if the signal is bad but you don't get the full
(22:07):
full meaning of the conversation.
Yeah. And that's kind of what it was
like when I was in this complacent, sort of spot was I
was I was here. The parts of the conversation
that I wanted to hear because I thought I was doing everything
but there was all this other stuff that I was missing once
that connection became clearer. I saw what I wasn't doing.
(22:29):
I saw what I was missing and just started focusing on that.
And that's that's led to me really being like super
introspective and working on myself, even further.
I appreciate this level of transparency.
See and just allowing me and ourlisteners to get into something
(22:55):
that is so personal. So intimate and so recent and
fresh, right? Like you're currently in this
space right now. Let's spend a little bit time
talking about for you some of the things aside from not
spending that intimate time withyour wife what other one or two
items have you identified that has help or that could help take
(23:19):
your relationship with your wife, with your son, even to the
next level working on myself. That's a big bug.
It's really hard to be introspective.
It's really hard to admit where your shortcomings.
Our ego is a beautiful thing. He got was like a mask.
(23:43):
Now, when I'm talking about ego,I'm not using it in the
traditional definition that people would use.
The sure I'm talking about ego, being the sense of self, okay?
That's how we view ourselves. Elves.
And so we think we got it all down pat and we're killing it.
(24:04):
Okay, that's great. But I'm sure there are things in
your own life that you can improve to become a better
person. You know, whether that be
sobriety, for example, if you'rean addict or an alcoholic or or
whatever, but this is not talking just substances either,
(24:24):
it could be that. You're addicted to your phone.
You end up with straw paralysis and you sit there on the couch,
just scrolling, do not connect it.
It could be an addiction to porn.
And so, then that is taking awayfrom your intimate relationship
with your partner. Because you're not really there
(24:44):
in the moment when you are intimate or it may even just
shut down your intimacy all together.
Yeah, you know. So another thing on that
checklist is improving yourself and I'm huge.
Proponent for self-improvement, and I didn't even think about it
until I started not-so-secret dad's business.
(25:05):
And I started talking to personal development, coaches
and psychologists, and therapists, and I'm gone.
Wow, it was like The Shining, I'm shining a light and now,
holding up a mirror that lights bouncing straight back at me and
I'm seeing all these short shortcomings.
So I feel like I'm sort of disjointed.
(25:27):
Yeah, but it's kind of like the oxygen mask situation on an
airplane. You go to put your own oxygen
mask on before you can help others.
And this is what it is with personal growth in order to
really improve or have a better better foundation in your
family. It's personal development
(25:49):
self-improvement, if I'm a better person, I'm finally
feeling better about myself. I'm going to feel better about
everything. Anything else around it?
(26:35):
I was having this conversation with a group of dads and someone
made this point that I think it's a really strong point when
it comes to self improvement. It seems as though.
Generally speaking the individual is at a moment and
their life where things are not as they want it to be.
(27:00):
All right, so it's a low moment and at that moment is like,
yeah, yeah, I need to do something to improve myself.
The point that my buddy made waswhat about those moments when we
are feeling good about ourselves.
What is the value of self improvement during those
moments? Wouldn't it?
Make sense? Also for sort of like adopting,
(27:24):
a default of whether I'm at a low moment, whether I'm at a
high moment, I can always build and improve on that moment where
I'm at. Right, yeah, yeah, man.
And a big, big one I've learned about recently is gratitude,
man. Mmm, we're always grateful for
(27:45):
things when things have gone really well fans, when things
are going good. You know, I'm grateful that I've
got my family. This is Waterpark by having such
a great time. We're connected.
That's awesome. Great.
But again it's like when when helies biological father popped up
and it was a A real low point for me, but again, I look back
(28:08):
and I'm grateful because it reignited that that passion in
me to to go, hey, look, my family, I'm going to protect my
family, but I feel like I'm about to lose something more.
Hmm. And in the moment, yeah, it's
low point, but now I'm grateful for it.
You know, whether it be the low point to the high points, like
you just got to be grateful. Regardless.
(28:31):
But there is always room to roomto build.
There's always room for. Yeah, absolutely do and there
was such a helpful perspective for me to hear because you're
right. The default is, you know, when
things are great, it's almost like, you know, when things are
great I don't feel like I reallyneed to improve on anything
(28:53):
right now because I can just maintain it where it is right
here, right? And then it, then it turns into
compliance. And then it turns into
complacency and then, whatever strong Foundation.
I thought I was leaning on has been eroding this whole time.
Absolutely. Yes.
And then, the slightest thing just comes to to threaten it.
(29:17):
And boom, it begins to crumble so fast that it leaves me
wondering how the hell did we get here?
So quickly, when I thought I wascoasting this whole time and I
guess that's the point. Point.
This this sense of things don't need to change the sense of if
it ain't broke, why fix it? And it's not necessarily a
(29:39):
matter of it being broke and needing fixing.
But if it's good. Why not make it better?
If it's if it's better. Why not make it even more
better? Yeah.
Look, you can have a beautiful single story heart but that's
what you put another floor on. That you've doubled the amount
of space. You've got ya, you know, If
(30:01):
you've improved that house, you've improved absolutely but
you can proved it. Absolutely.
And so there's always there's always room for improvement and
and like I said through that, I think gratitude is a big one and
that's where I come back to where we were with started off.
Was that with all these changes that Eli's gone through?
Yeah, it's bittersweet. I feel like I'm losing
(30:23):
something, but I'm grateful for because he's growing into this,
this young Man, then I'm I'm extremely proud of, and you
there to witness it. Yeah, it's making some awesome
decisions man. For example, a big one.
He loves his Call of Duty. Hmm.
(30:44):
Now, so what you want? I mean again, we're all
different households. We all have different, you know,
different parameters that are blindly.
Yep, so if you don't agree with me here, that's fine.
I respect your opinion but I allow my son to play Call of
Duty. Is he's just fascinated by the
military and former conflicts. And I mean once we spent an hour
(31:08):
in the Bookshop just looking at World War Two but you know like
you just fascinated by it and recently he was playing Modern
Warfare and there was a level where there were innocent people
being killed in this particular level and he's come to me and
he's gone. Hey Dad, like this is what's
what's happening when I've had alook, So I've spoken my wife.
(31:31):
Has she gone? Yeah, I'm not comfortable with
that. And we sat down with him and
said last night and said, hey could you bring us that day?
We're going to be putting that one away.
You can play the others but thatone is going away and we
explained to him, you've done nothing wrong, but we're
extremely proud of you that you have come to us and said, hey
(31:52):
this is in the game and I think it's problematic.
What do you think so? You know, that's where I'm
extremely grateful. Like yeah, I don't have the
little smooshy kid anymore, but I mean, I'm clearly doing
something right. It was his six and a half and
he's making these decisions man.That that is it's both and and
(32:18):
ideal at the same time, it's a reality.
What I mean by that is, I think,every parent wants as an ideal a
scenario where your Old feels comfortable enough bringing to
your attention, or including youinto major decisions that
(32:38):
they're making. I think, every parent who is a
parent wants to say, you know what, whatever it is, I do is
sort of geared towards that ideal to keep it as just.
An ideal is cool, but how do yourespond to it when that ideal is
(32:59):
Is the reality that you find yourself in at the moment and
what you just shared is such a beautiful example of that here
you are. But you're feeling all of these
things because your son is taking more of a, his, his
individuality is stepping out a lot more.
His independence is becoming more established, right?
(33:22):
He has the mental capacity. His brain has been developed to
the point where he is able to Frenchie Aid between what he
wants and what he doesn't want at a deeper level and so you're
watching all of this happen and the fruits of that are him
saying, I'm gonna ask for my privacy.
(33:43):
Now Mommy can't do this anymore.I'm sure she's dealing with what
that means for her. Right?
Yeah, Daddy I don't want you to kiss me on the lips anymore and
you're like, oh my God, my son is growing up way too fast.
Leslie, he's playing this game and it's like, Dad.
I don't feel comfortable with this.
I don't feel comfortable with this and he didn't go hide and,
(34:08):
you know, try to do something about it himself.
He invited you into his space tosay that I don't feel
comfortable with this and respects.
The fact that you and your wife and him as a family made the
decision. Hey buddy, we're going to put
this one away and it's like, well, there's the ideal
actualized like, right. Here in this moment.
(34:31):
Like that's a beautiful thing, bro.
It is, it is man. And that's why I say it's better
this way. I feel like I'm losing that
little little boy with mine, butat the same time, he's just
making me so proud. I mean, he's even, he's been
asking a lot lately for us to give him a baby sister.
Mmm. Now, as you, well know, I mean,
(34:53):
we've got fertility issues in our family and we've been trying
for a while now to have a Baby and everytime it.
Brings it up. It just it shatters my wife's
heart. And so now we're at the point
where we're happened to had sex talk with him and help him
understand how babies are made because he thinks that he was
(35:16):
under the impression that he could ask for a baby sister and
we could just get pregnant and give him one and we're going.
Hey, look buddy. Like be really want to but this
is, this is We're struggling. This is how babies are made.
This is what's going on with Momand Dad, you know, it's just not
(35:37):
working out properly. Then he's our, I get that.
Well, when I get a baby sister, can I do?
I get to feed her? Well, that's not your
responsibility. It's mum and Dad's
responsibility. Your responsibility is just to
be a big brother. Yeah.
And he's like, yeah but what if I want to feed Feed the baby.
(36:01):
Absolutely. If that's what you want to do,
we're not going to stop you fromdoing that.
We're not going to expect you todo that, to do that, because
then you end up end up parent. Icing the child essentially,
like, you know, there's, there'salways a scenario of the older
child is child. Always ends up taking care of
the younger kids and their mum and dad are able to do their own
(36:25):
thing. It's like not, you don't have to
do that. Your only job, To be a kid, a
big brother. You don't have to do anything
else, man. That's the same message.
That's the same message that I'mpreaching to jukey.
Right now, as we are expecting, you know, his baby brother.
He doesn't have to take any responsibility and I have
(36:46):
incorrect people who say to him.Oh, so, when your baby brother
comes, you have to protect them.You have to do this, you have to
do that, and I step in and I say, actually he doesn't have to
do anything. The only thing that he needs to
do Is love his baby brother and be the best big brother that he
already is. All the other stuff.
(37:06):
The protecting the feeding the this, the all of the other
responsibilities and expectations, that's for me to
do, that's for my wife to do. And of course, we want to help
incorporate him and things so that he doesn't feel alienated.
But for right now, at two and a half, when his brother is born
(37:27):
because his brother is going to be born sometime in Between late
February and early. March God willing, even though
today at the appointment his head is like down down so we're
like, wait a minute, do you havedo you have other plans homie?
(37:47):
But yeah, you know, when, when when baby comes we want to
instill this this sense in him that you don't have to be a
grown-up, the moment, your brother shows up, You don't have
to, you don't have to be a parent.
You don't have to, you don't have to do anything.
You can still be a kid and love on your brother and we'll create
(38:10):
that safe space for the both of you.
So enjoy a full childhood as you're maturing into the faces
of your life. And to me, that to me, that's a
very important message to conveyto him at this moment because
Yeah, there is no because just because I think it's a very
(38:32):
important message to convey to him at this moment.
And what I, what I love though, is the fact that at six and a
half, he's wanting to step up and take that responsibility.
It's not that it's not that he'she's he thinks that he's
supposed to, he's just like, heylook, he wants to.
(38:52):
Can I do that? You know.
All right there. And so again it's all part of
this growing up thing that he's doing eyes.
Like you said, the individualityis finally starting to really
come out. And, I mean, even, even his
personality is just evolving at Breakneck speeds, man.
Like legit is the latest word. That's, that's the word of the
(39:15):
hour at the moment. Aw, dad, did you see that?
That college it crashed into theother car.
Ya did ya did and you know againcuz he's a he He's at school.
He just finished kindergarten that last year.
So starting first grade this year, okay.
(39:35):
And so he comes home with randomrandom stuff that I haven't
taught him. For example, one day I come
home, I've picked him up from school on a Friday.
I knock off work on early on a Friday so I get to pick him up
from school on the Friday and we're just getting home and were
(39:57):
walking to the door and he goes Can I get a hug?
Oh yeah. And I'm like, what?
What did you are you for real, man?
And I mean, we don't let this kid on the internet.
He doesn't watch YouTube or anything like that, no more.
Where did you get all the kids at school door?
I forgot. I forgot about the other kids.
(40:17):
Yeah, bro. Yeah, I forgot about the other
kids but you know, like it's just I keep repeating myself,
but it's bittersweet man. There are Things that you like
you Champion him. Like ya, go, son.
And then, there are other times.It just like, I wish.
I wish you wouldn't. Yeah, I love you.
(40:40):
I understand where you're comingcoming from up.
Please don't just please, don't.Don't don't be that guy.
Yeah, my son, you know, he doesn't go to school yet, but he
is often with his cousins and myone, nephew goes to daycare and
my other nephew. You is in pre-k and you know
(41:02):
they just come and when they allget together and they're playing
and he just ends up picking up all of the stuff that they say
and I'm just like, buddy. So his thing now is you look at
that booty that booty, stinky you.
(41:23):
So couple days ago, I am changing his pull up.
Then it's like you daddy my penis stinky.
You you look at your belly. It's and I said, hey buddy.
Listen, let's take a break from all of the stinky and all of the
Au and all of that stuff. Okay?
(41:44):
Because you are not yet preparedto use that word because you
could really hurt somebody's feelings by pointing out
something of theirs. And then saying, if you and then
saying stinky. All right, so let's let's take
Good. Let's take a break from that.
(42:05):
And then I can just tell that hedoesn't see what I see.
Obviously, right, he doesn't have the scope of understanding
that I have obviously but there's something in the way
that he was looking at me that his mind was like his wheels
were turning. And in that moment I think he
made a determination. Okay, I'm going to trust my dad
(42:28):
on this one and you know since that day the level of ill You
and booty and stinky has like significantly decreased like he
doesn't he doesn't use those words anymore because for the
time being something that I saidto him clicked for the time
(42:48):
being, that's just not that's just not what we're going to do.
And so I remember saying to him,you know, there are other words
that you have available that, you know, how to use.
Let's use those words but this one You don't quite know how to
use that word yet, so let's takea break from that one.
Alright. And then he was just like, okay
(43:09):
Daddy and and that was that, butI'm not entirely where you are.
But I think I might the beginning of this phase where
you are right now, because even I'm starting to experience some
of those moments of loss of something that I used to do with
(43:29):
them, you know, every night, when I put him to sleep.
Leap how the last thing I'll sayto him is I love you captain and
he would say it. I love you captain and that was
the last thing that would say toeach other and then he would go
to sleep. Now I have to be like, aw, come
on, dude. Can you say it please so that I
can feel better? Yeah, yeah.
(43:52):
Yeah, yeah. I'm not a lot.
I'm not feeling it man. Yeah.
Yeah. You know I'm like last night I
told him. I was like, I love you captain
and he was like okay. I'm like dude.
(44:13):
Come on. Can you just say it please?
And he was like I love you Captain my God.
Thank you. Thank you.
Yeah, it isn't it funny how we rely so emotionally on that
kids, as much as I do. It's
(44:59):
man, this has been a really a really good conversation.
As always, it's been a really rich conversation.
These moments are never going togo away.
I don't think this this sense ofBittersweet loss transition.
I mean, just throw it all in a blender like that's basically
what we've spoken about for the past hour.
(45:19):
It's not Go away. What are some things?
What are one or two things that you're doing, presently to help
you cope through these Trent, this moment of transition as
it's happening. I'm just, I'm trying to be as
accepting with as possible, likeit's really hard to her, to deny
(45:42):
that it's happening. It's really easy to deny that
it's happening, you know, you know, like who you look back at
baby? Photos of stuff you alone.
Miss the little little squish. Aw, I love when he was cute and
chubby and this that and the other but you're not living in
the moment. You're going back and God I miss
I miss I miss. And so what I'm trying to do is
(46:05):
just live in the moment and go. Yeah, okay.
I miss these things like becausehe's growing up but this is who
I have in front of me now, right?
And so this is the child that I'm parenting now.
Not Three-year-old, that was standing in the in the kitchen.
Go Daddy Burgers, you know, he'snot the hi, Dad, can I help you,
(46:31):
cook? You know, and so no, it's not
what it used to be but I'm accepting what it is.
Yeah and and you know what? One day, it's going to go from
me being called Daddy to being called Dad to being called bra.
She didn't know. So again, And it's gonna change.
(46:52):
I just have to accept that. Fact, know if I'm ready for the
brass stage, I'm hoping that still another 10 years because
Duke, you're ready, he already got to the dad stage.
I mean like presently. Sometimes he's like, hey Daddy,
but other times it's like Dad recently.
(47:15):
His thing is, you guys and me and my wife were like, whoa,
whoa, whoa. Hey listen bro we're not we're
not doing this you guys. It's Mom and Dad but yeah I
think what you say is very spot on recognizing what it was
(47:35):
appreciating what is and just fully giving yourself into that
moment those moments? Yeah, just just being grateful
man. That's all it is because again
it's really easy to focus on. The - and really get yourself
down in the dumps, but if you'regrateful for, what is in the
(47:58):
moment now? Like you're on cloud nine, it's
as simple as that brother, I can't thank you enough, man is
always a good time catching up with you.
It's always fun because can you just tell our listeners, what
time? What date, and time it is for
you right now. It's Saturday, the 14th of
(48:18):
January and it's currently 7:25 in the morning and on my side it
is Friday, January 13, and it is324 p.m. my time so it's always
good talking to you from the future.
It's nice that you like to engage with your past.
(48:41):
So night, that's the thing you can't ignore the past.
You can do. I can run from it all with with
it, you know. Okay.
Rafiki. Okay.
Listen, dude, I appreciate you very much, brother.
I hope you have a good rest of your Saturday, looking forward
(49:03):
to the next time you come on thePod.
And so, let's just mention this for those of our listeners who
may want to tune in to your podcast, for the time being
you're going to extend your break.
Yeah yep. I'm on extended fright just try
(49:26):
Back into a position where I canserve to my fullest capacity.
Yeah I appreciate that. Yeah that's that's the part that
I wanted to make sure we said explicitly and that you are on a
bit of a break. But listen completely support
the reason why you're on the break completely and behind you
(49:48):
and your journey to get into a better head space completely
supporting however long it takesweather.
Or not, you decide to turn on the mic, again is entirely a
different thing, but what's important and what needs to be
stated is that you are taking the proper steps to make sure
(50:09):
that you are healthy and all aspects.
So that you can continue to be the great asset to your family
that you are so kudos to you forfor putting aside, all sorts of
Seneschal detractors and distractions to really focus on
(50:30):
yourself. And that is crucially,
crucially, crucially important. So, thank you for taking care of
you, brother.
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