April 28, 2023 • 55 mins
After an extended break, (not so) Secret Dads Business is back with fresh new episodes!
This episode, I spoke to Kelly Jean-Philippe about the huge changes in his life as a father. After multiple miscarriages, Kelly and his wife welcomed a new addition to their family back in February. Kelly and I discuss how he has navigated the transition into a new family dynamic, how it has affected each member of his family and some of the personal hardships he's faced during this time of transition.
Check out Kelly's podcast, Welcome To Fatherhood, anywhere you stream your podcasts or visit his website at www.welcome2fatherhood.com
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Coming up in this episode of not-so-secret dad's business.
A couple of things that I found interesting, where that, when I
started talking to people just people who would ask, hey, how
you doing? How's the baby and all of that
stuff? And I would start to open up and
say, I am having a tough time. Most of the reactions that I got
(00:23):
were kind of, like a suck it up buttercup, like a, you know
what, it is, what it is. This is This is what you're
supposed to go through. It's not a big deal, it'll get
better eventually. Don't sweat it, it's okay.
And that bothered me bro. A unit of fatherhood, not sure
(00:44):
if you're doubting to your full potential, well, you've come to
the right place. Most dad's aren't talking to
each other about their lives as dad's look at some kind of
secret. Well, this is the podcast that
takes the secret out of fatherhood.
This is not so So secret dad's business.
(01:10):
You do get a, welcome to anotherepisode of not-so-secret dad's
business. After seven months were finally
back, baby. Thank you for your patience,
everyone. Thanks for tuning in again and
joining me for a New Journey that this this podcast is going
to take us on. I do apologize about the
(01:31):
extended break on the podcast. I had the boat rocked up a
little bit in my dad life and I had to take care of some stuff
there, which then led me to haveto look into my own personal
growth and Fixing some issues inmy, my marriage and, you know,
my personal life overall. So I time got away from me
(01:53):
there, but we're back now. And I'm looking forward to
bringing you guys awesome brand new content, which leads me into
this week's episode. Make guest is The Great Khali
jean-philippe from the, welcome to fatherhood podcast.
In this episode, I sat down withCallie and we had bit of a chat
about how his life has been going since we last spoke.
(02:16):
How he's been transitioning intoa two-child family?
Now that he's had a new additionto the family.
We also discuss a little bit about how we need to touch base
with with each other as men, a little more often.
And we also talked about having to make the tough decision of
getting a vasectomy. This one was awesome to record
(02:38):
with Kelly. I love catching up with this guy
and I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I do.
(03:00):
Kali Mata man, how are you? Good to see you.
Good to see you man. Listen before we even get
started, let me just say how excited I am that.
You're back doing this. Like when you reached out and
you were like, hey, this thing is Starting up again, I was
like, bro. Yes, thank you for bringing it
(03:21):
back. So happy to be back, man.
Thank you, man. Thank you, man.
Those a whole heap of stuff thatwas going on there.
Till I come. I think I mentioned it on your
show. The last appearance that I did
where you know he lies biological father popped up that
threw me into a massive tailspin.
Yeah, I didn't know where we were at whether we, you know
(03:44):
what I could talk about about mydad.
Like Life and and that's where Ithink we were talking to lawyers
and child psychologists and trying to work out the best way
to handle things for Eli and ourfamily.
Yeah, and you know, I had some technical issues as well on the
back end as well. And so, I had this, have this
(04:06):
impending doom, right? When it seems like a massive job
that I tend to procrastinate andI put it off and I put it off
and that that impending doom in me.
Rises and Rises. So I finally pulled my finger
out to fix everything within an hour.
Yes, a lot man, I waited all this time and now I've got it
(04:27):
fixed like that, you know. So yeah, and that's right away.
Put a rocket up me, then it was like, yes, not-so-secret dad's
business is back baby. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm excited.
Dude, I'm really excited. So what's been going on with
you, man? There's been, there's been Heats
happening and you've got a new addition to the The family and
(04:48):
Phyllis in what's happening, bro?
Yeah, man. So, since we last chatted on
your platform, I have another baby boy that was born.
February of this year. 2023. His name is Eden.
He just turned eight weeks. Oh wow.
Two months. Holy crap, he is two months old
(05:11):
and it's been a whirlwind to saythe least.
Outta me, the first I want to say month and change, we're
really difficult and the adjustment with having a toddler
and a newborn is not for the faint of heart.
(05:32):
So there's been all sorts of upsand downs and there's been all
sorts of issues that has arised for me personally.
But right now we're at a place where things have Calm down
significantly. Julia's Camilo is an amazing big
(05:53):
brother to eat, and so dealing with his adjustment of having a
little brother and all of that stuff.
So it's been a whirlwind man. It's been, it's been a whirlwind
so that's what's been going on on the family side.
As you know, the podcast has been running and it's been going
great be making great. Connections are venturing into
(06:14):
new topics of discussion. Thinking about creating content
that you know I'm planning to like do big things with.
So a lot has been happening, allthat, one's a lot of transitions
happening all at the same time. Yeah, I'm not surprised.
(06:34):
Look, one thing I noticed recently as well with your
podcast is to such a minor change, but it jumped out at me
and slapped me in the face, right?
And I don't know, I've been For might miss it but you you
changed up your intro ban so there's no more.
This is the welcome to fatherhood podcast.
(06:58):
My name is Kelly and I'm here toremind you however, you
listening and wherever you listening as dad's, we're just
lot mom's except we're done. But I mean, it's a nice touch
man, where you you now, introducing A stand and putting
that into your intro and the wayyou've lied it out is beautiful,
(07:21):
man. What's been prompting?
The changes in your podcast? Yeah, so the change came as a
result of where I'm at in life right now.
So I have to say I tribute that perspective that desire to
change to my son eating because now that so let me back up and
(07:43):
just give you the Fuller scope of what's been going on and
trying to get to Eden after jukey.
My wife and I experienced two miscarriages and in between
getting our children, it's four in total, right?
So eat and sort of, Mark, the punctuation mark of, we're no
(08:07):
longer trying to grow our family.
So that was like a really Serenemoment where once there,
Realization settled in. I felt like, okay.
Now I can start processing. What that Journey has been like
since the beginning. Now that we're at the end and as
(08:29):
a result of all of that processing, I started to realize
very quickly that there's some work that I want to do in the
space of helping men. Have a space or creating a space
for men and fathers who have gone through the same
experiences as me to connect andto be able to process and
(08:52):
education. So so that's where a lot of my
focus is geared to now. And as a result of that, I'm
like, I want to start talking with people who would not just
bring value to the podcast, but who are like experts and in the
field that I am, Am seeking to talk to them and it just didn't
(09:16):
feel right for me to have that desire and then for them to have
their name attached to my podcast.
And then that would be the introif they wanted to use that for,
you know, their own purposes. So I was like, okay, we've
upgraded now. We're a dad of two.
Let's upgrade the feel of the podcast.
(09:37):
So that's something that I thought about for a while and I
started doing some research. Research into how to, how to, if
I want to take this podcast moreseriously than, I need to
present it in a more serious waywithout losing the essence of
who I am. So, let me just go ahead and and
(09:59):
think about how to recreate the intro and I settled on what it
is now which is just introducingmyself.
And then giving a blurb about who it is.
We're going to talk to introducing The guests, having
like a small clip of part of ourconversation and then just
jumping, you know, right into it.
(10:21):
So that's been one of the changes even the the audiograms
that I release have also changed.
So just aesthetically trying to clean things up a little bit
because I am at a point right now where my vision for the
podcast and and the Avenues thatI want to explore Are becoming a
(10:43):
lot clearer and I just want to make sure that I don't use
people who would have heard my old intro and been like I can't
take this as seriously as I wantpeople to eventually take the
platform. Yeah, I hear you, man.
(11:04):
I feel you too. I mean, you and I have a really
like work in the side mission here and I feel like, let me put
this in a way. A football idea here, right.
I feel like man. I've been fumbling the ball,
right? I know what the game is, but I
just keep fun blue. It's like they got butter all
over my hands. I can't get a grip of it.
(11:25):
Yeah. You man like you've been taking
this thing called podcasting andturning it into something really
awesome. You've got the blog going,
you've been putting out, your short form, social media
content, your videos and all that sort of thing.
Switching up the intro. Like you've just picked up that
(11:46):
pigskin and you've tucked it under your arm and you've just
been running for the End Zone, you know, to me.
Yeah, dude, because part of it man, the the driving force
behind all of this is that I want to turn this into what I
do. Like I want to leave my
nine-to-five eventually and focus my attention in this space
(12:08):
and the doors that I've knocked on that.
I have been open for me like I want to enter into those Arenas
and really be a major contributor in them.
So I'm looking, I'm looking towards the future and I just
feel like I need to make small changes that like I said
(12:31):
earlier, I'm still being true tomyself but also setting myself
up for Success. Once the opportunity gets there,
Absolutely, man, I love what you're doing.
I love how you doing it and I wish I could ride your coattails
in a way, a man. Like I think my biggest issue
personally is got a bit of Life,an impostor syndrome.
(12:53):
Like why would anybody listen tome?
I'm not an authority on this. You know what I mean?
There are so many dads out thereto think and know what they're
doing, so why should they be listening to me?
Yeah, and it seems man that you've not had that issue.
Maybe you have, but I listened to this day, I have that issue
(13:15):
to this day. I have that issue.
So at the beginning of this year, I saw something on
LinkedIn that said something to the effect of I'm scared.
But I'm going to do with scared anyway, and I've really kind of
taken that. And okay, I'm gonna run with
(13:37):
this. So how this applies is, I still
have these internal voices that are like, listen, dude, what
you're doing? Like you think the message that
you're putting out? There is something that people
want to hear, but look at all ofthe struggles that you're
getting and connecting with people to have that level.
(13:58):
Of of conversation with you, like it's just not happening.
I had an ad on Instagram runningfor like two months looking for
dads who had gone through miscarriages to come and talk to
me. And what have you?
And I will throw. I was thinking that listen, I'm
gonna get at least half a dozen.At least a dozen only got like,
(14:21):
two or three people who responded to the ad and another
one or two who reached out to me, personally, you know what?
And I was like, mankell. You like you spent money on this
and the return didn't pay out, really.
So I still have all sorts of Doubt, bro.
(14:42):
But to take this little post that I saw on LinkedIn too hard.
I'm like in spite of that, I'm still gonna go through with this
as if I were like crushing the game because if I don't do it
then nobody's gonna do it for me.
And at this point I've invested too much into this.
(15:05):
I care about this too much for me to just not grow my attitude
about it and not let that attitude evolve.
Yep, I hear you man. And I mean, look, I think
otherwise, I had still paid off dividends because he did end up
making almost like a mini seriesjust on that topic there.
(15:28):
And And the information that came out of that now was
life-changing for a lot of people.
I'm sure I've not had that experience myself.
So I can't put myself in your shoes brother, but I can only
imagine how helpful that is for dads Because from what I'm
hearing, what you just said withthat ad, you were thinking,
(15:48):
yeah, I'll get half a dozen. Maybe a dozen hits.
And you didn't, but that's obviously because dads are
scared, man. They don't know how to navigate
it, because they're trying to work it out for themselves and I
add, so still doing that miniseries.
That you've done and your seriesof blogs on the topic of
miscarriage as well. I think just having that there
(16:11):
as a resource for Dad's just to check out I think Matt it's just
awesome, I appreciate that. So moving forward a little bit
man. Obviously having Julius Camilo.
He's a toddler now. He's what three?
Yeah, he's about to be me. Three in May.
Yeah, so you've really settled into the dad life there.
(16:35):
But then, of course, having eaten, come along.
That's probably taken the jar and shaken up.
All the the fireflies. Tell me how that's been for you
man. So I had a friend tell me before
eating was born. She said, you think, you know
something about parenting, take that whatever it is you think
(16:56):
you know and just throw it out the window once eaten gets here
because it's going to be a totally different ballgame.
And I appreciated her telling methat because it at least gave me
a sense of comfort in knowing that, I'm not going to or
Shouldn't necessarily rely on what I know about parenting
(17:21):
jukey, like I need to be open tothe possibility that things are
going to be 100% different, right?
So eat and gets here and he set me and my wife up, bro.
Like he set us up because the first night he was born or after
he was born, my man, slept the whole night, I mean not a peep,
(17:43):
he slept the whole night. Right the following night until
today. It's been downhill from there.
I mean homie doesn't sleep so because he doesn't sleep.
That means we're not sleeping and there's a bit of regression
that happened. Once we brought him home with
(18:06):
jukey because now he's having toadjust to having another person
who is taking up all of the time.
Time that he would normally havewith Mommy and Daddy.
Yeah. Which had, then to counter that
I had to spend a lot more intentional intense time with
(18:27):
him. Since my wife was, I mean, she's
basically the milk lady for Eden.
I mean, that's that's who she is.
So being sleep deprived. Was one thing having to give so
much more of my energy to my toddler while also being there
(18:52):
to be like a gopher to my wife or for my wife because she had a
C-section so she couldn't do a lot of things.
I mean, it was really a lot of intense stuff happening at the
same time while also trying to bond with my newborn because
That's the reason why I took offfrom work so I could bond with
(19:12):
my newborn and when I tell you Nate it was tough bro.
It was tough. Like I'm not there's no
sugarcoating. It.
It was tough and parts of it arestill tough, a couple of things
that I found interesting where that, when I started talking to
people, just people who ask, hey, how you doing?
(19:33):
How's the baby and all of that stuff?
And I would start to open up andsay I am having Having a tough
time, most of the reactions thatI got were kind of, like a suck
it up buttercup, like a, you know what, it is, what it is.
This is, this is what you're supposed to go through.
It's not a big deal, it'll get better eventually, don't sweat
(19:58):
it, it's okay. And that bother me, bro, because
On the one hand, we have this expectation for dads and men to
you know, talk about the struggles that we're going
through as we're going through them and I felt at that time
that people weren't listening tome, they didn't necessarily care
(20:21):
that I was going through a really tough time.
It was like that's none of my business.
Really like what else did you expect?
And on the one hand yeah. What else did I expect it was
Going to be hard, but on the other hand, it would have been
so much more encouraging so muchmore beneficial if the majority
(20:43):
of people at least made me feel like what I was saying was
valid, right? So there were very few people
who validated what I had said tothem, when I spoke to them at
the time. And so, I was like, all right,
man. I'm going to stop opening up to
people and telling people that I'm having a tough time because
clearly, they don't care. But in the home, I am Snappy
(21:07):
with jukey, I'm Snappy with my wife because I'm sleep-deprived
and I'm tired, and I'm irritated, and I'm all that.
And one day, I just came down towhere I'm sitting at right now,
which is my space. I got on my computer, I took out
my insurance card and I called anumber in the Of the insurance
(21:28):
card and I said, hey I need you to hook me up with a therapist
because I need help and if I don't get this help, I am going
to be very detrimental to my son.
I'm going to be very detrimentalto my wife.
I'm not gonna be as healthy a person as I possibly can and I
(21:53):
don't want to go down that rabbit hole.
So I initiated a relationship with with my therapist and it's
been going on for a little over a month now.
And it's been really helpful. I mean, we're still in the
beginning stages of it, but I didn't even go through the whole
(22:14):
thing of trying to find the right match.
I just needed someone who would listen And so the first number I
called and the person picked up and we set up a meeting and
she's the person that I've been sticking with this whole time
until I get a sense. If I ever get a sense that she's
(22:34):
not the right person to stick with, she's listening to me,
bro. Like that's, that's, that's all
I care about. So, That's been my experience
for the most part. Just I'm just just not shying
away from how difficult it has been acknowledging difficult.
(22:55):
It has been telling people thosewho are willing to listen that
it's been difficult while. Also enjoying the pockets of
moments, where it's all fallen in place perfectly where Juke
he's fine. Eating is fine.
My Wife is fine. I'm fine, we're enjoying each
other's company as a family. We're growing we're doing things
(23:19):
but you know we're still we're still sleep-deprived man.
Before I came down here, eating was he took like a 20-minute nap
and then he woke up and not my wife is dealing with them right
now. So by the time we finish here,
he'll probably be asleep. And then, as soon as I get
upstairs, who most likely wake up again?
And then I'll just be up until whenever All right, man.
(23:41):
Look firstly, I'm so glad you actually went out and seek to
help you know the fact that you took the initiative go and do
that is awesome. Because again, as we both know,
a lot of guys won't do that. Yeah.
Secondly, on my part, I apologize, man.
Like, I told you, you know, I asked you, how you go man and
(24:01):
you're like, I'm having a hard time and I'm like, well, I'm
always here, man. Just jump in my DMs, you know,
and I didn't follow up on that. I figured Again a typical guy
mentality. I've put that out there if you
need me, jump in my DMs right. But I never followed up on that.
The oh hey looked you need to talk and I know there's not a
(24:23):
whole heap I can do I'm on the other side of the planet.
Man. Yeah.
So it's not like I can just comearound for coffee or anything
like that but when I when I saidbecause if you need to talk
getting my DMs like I meant that, you know, but Hearing what
you've just said. I've I kind of feel like I
dropped the ball as well as damnfucking Butterfingers man.
(24:44):
Like I just I didn't think to step back up and go.
Hey, man. Like do you need to talk?
How would you do and what's going on with you?
Like yeah, I mean I appreciate you saying that and there's
really no need for you to apologize, although I appreciate
it because what what's what I like about?
What's Happening Here is Acknowledging that it's for both
(25:09):
of us that it's not just enough to offer the person who is going
through something the opportunity to reach out to you.
If they want to to your point, there is an extra mile to go or
an extra mile or two to go and be intentional on the part of
the person who does the offer. Because I've done the same thing
(25:31):
I've offered people, you know, hey especially people who are
Into Parenthood and to fatherhood and I'm like, Hey
listen it can be tough. I'm pretty sure you have you
know, people around you who you love and they love you and you
respect their opinions and they'll support you in the event
(25:52):
that you need extra support. I'm also here and then I don't
reach out again, right? And so if that person is going
through something I want no because I Didn't take that extra
step for them, also exact. So, yeah, you saying that is
making me recall, a number of guys that I've said that to and
(26:17):
now I need to hit them up and apologize to them for not taking
that extra step. Well, I mean that's yeah, that's
something we gonna do. I think, as men, we've got to
stop and and the fuck man, like,I got to write chat more because
again, like I don't know you'll have experienced this as well
(26:39):
like in your own mind where you've had that.
Where I can look man, there's the offer.
You need me. Fucking hit me up.
Yeah. Then you do you you're in that
moment. You're like man I think I should
message them. No I don't want to bother them
with my problem as so then you just keep it to yourself.
Sometimes it kind of feels like that offer from somebody else is
(27:02):
somewhat disingenuous. Hmm.
That's the correct word. I'm gonna go with it, I'm gonna
get it, you know like yeah, it sometimes feels like that.
Offer of like, hey, come hit me up if you ever need me.
It's almost like it's just a script, it's a regurgitation of
(27:23):
like hey man and so you really don't take it up seriously.
I think you do look they offeredbut I'm sure they don't have the
time to deal with my shit, right?
Right now. So I'll just pull up my Big Boy
socks and I'll just keep moving forward the best I can.
Yeah, and the other part of the of this to need is there for the
(27:45):
person like myself who's going through, you know, this really
difficult moment. There's something that happens
in the mind that it just naturally ice made me feel
isolated from everybody else. So even, even though I knew the
invitation not just from you, but from other guys who had
(28:08):
reached out and said the same thing, hey, if you need to talk,
hit me up, you know like those were out there.
But in the thick of what I was going through, like I wasn't
actively thinking about all man.Nate did hit me up and tell me
(28:28):
this or this person did tell me that it was.
It just felt so isolating and part of that isolation was self
made as a result of the lack of sleep.
And you know, the irritation allof the transitions like the men.
Total capacity to tap into theseresources that were there.
(28:53):
It just wasn't happening it justwasn't happening.
So that whole period is so complex and is so complicated
and convoluted and it's such a blur, it can be at least that
you know, intentionality on bothparts.
I'm not going to say one more than the other, but if I had to,
(29:16):
I'll definitely say, you know, true to what we just expressed.
If I'm the person who made the offer to want to support the
person a little more intentionality from that part
towards the person who's going through the situation, I think
could really go a long way. Even if the person doesn't at
(29:38):
the moment, you know, open up and say what their Juggling
with, but at least it will startto plant seeds like okay.
This person is at least checkingin, right?
And that's something that we canoffer to each other as man and
fathers regardless of having a newborn or whatever the
(30:01):
situation is is like I just wantto.
I just want you to know that I'mhere and I'm gonna be here until
you tell me. I don't need to be here anymore.
Yeah, absolutely. And you're totally right.
Just having those follow-ups to make a fresh in the mind that,
hey, like, I'm still here in your corner, bro.
(30:24):
Like, you know, I'm your cut man, laughs going to beat you
up, but I'm here to stitch you up right man.
Like, you know, I've do think that's important.
Another thing I wanted to ask you about all this massive
transition, man, and I mean, it's moving away from, from us
as dad's. But how has Julia's Camilo been
going like Adapting to the role of being a big brother man.
(30:48):
Like how's he coping? Yeah he he started having a
better time of late so we've tried every trick in the book
and all of it has produced some good and there's been some
challenges even in every technique that we've tried,
(31:08):
right? So there's the sense of
including him in the care of Eden.
So, So we're changing the diapers and it's like, hey,
buddy. Can you go get mommy or daddy a
diaper? Can you get a, can you get some
wipes? You know, can you do this?
Can you do that and willingly? He, he just does it.
(31:28):
Now, when his brother cries, youknow, he goes up to him and he's
like, it's okay, it's okay, you're gonna be okay.
So here, you know, he starts soothing him, if I put a pasi
and Eaton's mouth, his like no Daddy, Let him cry because I've
been telling him. It's okay for him to cry.
Yeah. So you know it's like hey, no,
hey, Dad, let him cry. So all of that has been cool.
(31:54):
There are the times when Eden just doesn't, let my wife and I
sleep at night. And then in the morning, jukey
wakes up and he is just ready tostart his day and my wife, and I
have barely gotten any sleep. And he can't understand how come
(32:16):
we just went through an entire night and we're still tired when
he woke up with so much energy. So then we end up saying, hey,
you know, we can't do this now and instead of being inviting
and like it's just like, hey buddy.
Everything is a no no no. So then obviously that
(32:37):
frustrates him but there are absand Flow.
Clothes and his transition. I'm going to say that for the
most part I consider myself quite lucky and that I had an
image of how horrible things might have gone.
(32:59):
It hasn't been, as bad as I thought it would be based on my
mental image, two months in and I think there has been more
positive. Outcomes then negative outcomes.
Like there's been more positive times, a negative X, which is a
testament to how resilient he is, how adaptable he is, how
(33:25):
willing to collaborate with us and and loving his brother.
He is, you know, he still wants us to be in particular to pick
him up and, you know, carry him and stuff like that.
So what we started doing is WhenJudy was born, I sang a song to
(33:46):
him. That's like our song.
When Eden was born at the moment, I didn't sing a song to
him but like a day or two later a song came to me.
And so that became our Stone. And one day I was playing, I was
holding eaten and then I was playing our song.
Together is By Your Side by Sadeand I'm dancing with Eden and
(34:11):
jukka was like, is that That, isthat a song for me?
And I said, well, nobody. This is the song that Daddy has
for Eden. And then I said to him, you
know, when you were born, I had a song for you.
So he, he was like, can you playthat song like yeah, I play it.
So can you pick me up? So we could dance to it.
Yeah, I figured we could dance to it since that day that's been
(34:35):
like a month and a half now, almost every day.
I have to play that song for me and Dukey Pick him up so we can
dance to it. And that song is You'll Be in my
Heart, not the Phil Collins version but the Usher remix and
In my opinion, better than the original and I'll fight anybody
(35:00):
who thinks otherwise. But so, you know and doing those
things, just kind of creating the sense of I am not more
Eaton's dad than I am your dad. I am both of your dad's and I
love both of you as much. One is not more important than
(35:20):
the other. It's just sometimes Daddy.
Wants to carry eating and when I'm carrying eating, I can't
carry you at the same time although I have carried both of
them at the same time at times just to you know help him
understand that I'm not choosingfavorite.
So all that to say man he's he'shad his ups and downs and he
(35:43):
continues to have his ups and downs.
But there are more UPS than Downs.
Quite honestly. That's awesome.
And I think that having that moment where you put his song on
for him as well, I think that obviously, that was a catalyst
moment for jukey, right? And, and it's just made him feel
more included in the family. I guess.
(36:03):
You know, I mean, I remember when I was a little kid, my
sister, I mean, I'm the oldest of Life, man.
So, we're my first little sisterwas born.
I remember how I was feeling. I mean, I was too at the time,
but as I was growing up. But was like, man, like I used
to be special because I was the baby, you know, I'm not the baby
(36:24):
anymore. And I know how it feels from
from a kid's perspective becauselike, you still want that
attention from your parents and you can't get it because the
baby needs the attention. You have people on the outside.
So that moment right there, man,where you've played that song,
it's I guess it's made it like solidified, it in dukey's heart.
(36:46):
That dad still loves me. I'm Not being replaced as to we
are now bigger unit. Yeah family we've we've got a
bigger team. We got more players on the court
man. Yeah, do it together.
Absolutely man. If I can take this time to to
highlight some of the things that have worked for me, in
(37:08):
terms of how we've been able to keep jukey, Feeling that he's
still special even though there's somebody else that might
seem threatening but he's reallynot every night.
Now, I'm the one who puts him tosleep and it's intentional so I
(37:30):
can talk to him review, the day with him, ask him how he's
feeling talk about our feelings and then we have this our night
routine. I love you.
I'm proud of you. God bless you, out of all the
Juke, he's in the world. You are Daddy's favorite Jew key
and I kiss him seven times and then a whole bunch of other
(37:53):
kisses and all of that stuff. But then that has also evolved
to like this really intimate moment where me and my son, we
get to connect and in a unique way to our relationship, right?
That's like a reminder of What life was like before his brother
(38:15):
got there? Yeah, so creating that routine
and maintaining that routine. Even if I'm ticked off, even if
I'm tired because there's been nights where he has really
ticked me off and I'm like, Hey listen dude, daddy does not
necessarily want to talk to you right now but I'm gonna sit here
(38:37):
and we could talk anyway I'm just keeping it real with them,
right? But Still spending that time
together. Yep.
And what found fascinating is that sometimes I tell my wife
hey, can you can you like go puthim to sleep?
Cuz I just need a little break and she goes and then she comes
back in the room and she says, He's expecting you to come in
(39:02):
and talk to him so creating thatroutine whatever that routine is
for for you. Right?
Like, find something from the time before that new baby came
in and then that and bring it into your time.
Now as an expanded family and dedicate that special thing.
(39:27):
Do that special thing with With the first born just to
communicate to them. That hey, ain't nothing changed.
There is no threat here. Yep.
You're still special and for me that has gone a long long way.
Dude. That's great idea.
Yeah bringing in some of the oldold routine into the new routine
(39:50):
and and still making it a normalroutine.
Yeah yeah. See like other Christine and I
we've been talking about having a second child for a while now.
We've been, you know, looking through fertility treatment and
all that sort of thing as well. We haven't picked up on it again
as of late. But I mean, I've been jokingly
saying the Christina. I don't think I want a second
(40:12):
one like Because Eli has been soeasy.
Yeah. Like I mean, this could notice
that most kids will come into your room at 5:00 or 6:00 in the
morning as soon as they're awake.
Mom dad, like hey, it's daylight, let's start our day,
you know, but Eli is the complete opposite.
(40:34):
I came downstairs this morning. I slept in two hours longer than
I normally would and he's just sitting on the couch in front of
the TV. The TV's off.
And I'm like, I thought you'd beplaying the Xbox or watching
your cartoons or something. Buddy.
You guys know just been sitting quietly on the couch.
(40:56):
Oh well, you're allowed to guess.
Nah, I was just waiting for you to wake up so I could ask you if
it was okay. And I'm like, man, like we've
drummed it into it tried to drumit, into him, like you need mum
or dad, you come get us, that hewill not wake us, not bother us.
And so I said to, Christine man.If we have a second one, like we
(41:18):
will never sleep. We won't have hair left because
we'll pull it all out. Like, Eli has given us too much
of a good run that Karma has to come.
And fuck that shit up, excuse mylanguage.
But I mean, that's all I could, it's the best way of saying it,
for me, I think is that Parma will come in, take that whole
(41:40):
thing, turn it upside down and go.
Haha, welcome to fatherhood Night and I had to relearn
parenting all over again. So I'm like I really I really
want to have a baby for alive sake and want to give him a
similar and he's been asking us for a baby sister.
Yeah but that's what we'd love to do but I know for a fact that
(42:05):
now we've been living on Easy Street for the last seven years.
You know, he's coming up on 7 July.
He's been the easiest kid I've ever met.
And yeah, we Have another one. It's just going to take that
thing and just shake it up now, dude.
Yes, listen, having a second kidand I'm only speaking from the
(42:27):
perspective of going from 1 to 2.
I am fully aware that there are people who have three or
whatever, but that transition going from 1 to 2 is a really
tough transition, bro. And in the throes of my really
(42:51):
difficult time and early on, in the transition, I posted
something on Instagram that I was like, hey I need y'all to
give me your best advice on how to navigate this transition.
And this guy that I connected with, I think he is in the UK,
he wrote to me and he said, listen, I have seven boys.
(43:12):
And I've been through this multiple times.
Times. Obviously he said nothing has
been as hard as the first time when I went through it.
It was like nothing has been as hard then that first trans.
Once you go through that transition, once the other ones
(43:32):
it seems like not that they get easier but you're more equipped.
Yeah. But that first transition man,
listen is not for the faint of heart.
It is not for the faint of heart.
Now, let me we've got it. 15 minutes left.
So I think this is good chance to actually touch on this as
well is that you're only planning on doing this
transition once? Are you brother?
(43:55):
Yeah dude. Yeah, I got an appointment
coming up to snip snip because I've that's it.
We're not trying to grow our family anymore.
You know, like I said at the top, we experienced multiple
miscarriages, and it's taken a toll, mentally, physically.
(44:15):
And Emotionally and all the other leaves.
You could probably possibly think of.
So yeah, dude, we're done weird.I can only imagine a man like
yeah, you know, Christine and I had had negative pregnancy tests
and had that moment to sit thereand cry but then to have that
moment where you've got, you know, you've got a baby coming
(44:38):
and then losing it. I can't I can't fucking imagine
man. So I mean it's sure I mean I
guess It's not for everyone, butthe moon that's a decision that
you've made that you've decided is good for your family and I
think that's awesome man. I've heard some horror stories
but I've also heard some good stories as well, you know.
(44:58):
But I mean I guess I'm not upside as well.
It means that you know not no longer need to keep the rubber
Johnny's in the bedside cabinet either like you can you guys can
enjoy your time. No consequences involved.
None. None, take that.
Throw all of it out because we know like, that's it, that is
(45:19):
it. And, you know, obviously like
you said, it's a decision that every family has to make for
themselves. Having that conversation with my
wife and being on the same page Paramount.
Because we both felt after our fourth miscarriage, we could
have stopped there. And we could have said, We're
(45:42):
not going to do this anymore. We're more than content with
jukey. Like we're just more than
content. Yeah.
But we both felt incomplete. Yep.
And that's the word that we bothkept coming to and as a result
of that, then we had more conversations that led us to try
again. And we're so blessed to have
(46:03):
gotten eaten. So after that, like, we both
went into it understanding that even if it resulted in a a fifth
miscarriage. Then that was it, you know what
I mean? So to be able to have that level
of conversation with your spousewith your partner and
(46:25):
understanding, that whatever wants feeling is about what's
going on. If if they're people who have
had five, six, seven miscarriages and they still
tried until and that's like if that's what you and your family
decided to do at kudos to you. Yeah for us it was just like now
(46:51):
we're done and it's such a huge load off our backs.
Now that we're not even in that headspace to, you know, when are
we going to try and It's a done deal.
It's a done deal. Yep.
So how do you feel on a personallevel and I'm taking away
family, I'm taking away these discussions, you've had with
(47:13):
your wife, I'm taking away, everything else.
This is purely Kelly jean-philippe right now.
How do you feel about it? Because I mean, like, Every man
protects like his jewels, right?That's, that's it's almost like
a man's identity in a way. Yeah.
And I mean, I remember, even back in the day, man, like men
(47:35):
would refuse to have a, vasectomy is like, know, if she
doesn't want to have any more babies, she can have her tubes
tied, or she can do what she wants and I think that climate
has changed now significantly. I've heard a lot more dad's now
coming outside with done with. Maybe some getting, I'm getting
a snip on a personal level. How you feeling with all of
(47:59):
that, man? Dude, I that is something that I
offer to my wife as like once wedo this.
This is what I'm going to do. Like I volunteered myself for
(48:20):
that because so to answer your question more directly like I
feel completely at peace with it.
This is my own decision that I made.
It was influenced by watching the toll that pregnancy took on
(48:41):
my wife. Yeah it was influenced by
watching on two occasions. My wife having to be opened up
so that we an receive our children, right?
And her body has been through a lot.
The least I could do Is to get avasectomy and to even feel like
(49:09):
I can step in the same Arena as her if you will, and light of
everything that she put her bodythrough, so that I could call
myself a father. You know what I mean?
Like, man, I love it. That's, that's like, I don't
know. That's, that's another level
right there, man. That's, that's just allowed.
(49:30):
I think, you know, the fact thatyou can, you can recognize, how
much physical trauma. She's been through, just to give
you two kids and then, for you to go and you know what, now
it's my turn to do this a littlebit.
It doesn't compare to what you've been through, but you
know what, it's my turn. My turn to do this for you now.
Yeah, absolutely. Lie, like you don't have to do
(49:52):
anything else to your, you don'thave to do anything else.
If I have in my realm of responsibility, if this is what
I have to do, then it's a no-brainer for me.
So that that's my thoughts and my attitude towards your man.
Heli man. That's I'll just I love the way
(50:13):
you think I love, I love the wayyou look after your family.
I love everything about you man.Like you are and a one person in
my book. So you know, I like dude, I
appreciate that, bro. Well look, we're gonna have to
wrap this one up big boy, but before we go you got you got a
plot, the podcast, man. I mean, in my opinion, welcome
(50:36):
to fatherhood is out there man, it's up there.
So plug away, bro. So the podcast is called,
welcome to fatherhood. You can find it on every podcast
platform available. You can check out the website
www.walnuthilltracking.com are the hood.com.
(51:00):
You can see a picture of me and my family.
I need to update that picture now that eating is here but you
can read about how I started theplatform.
You can read some of the blog posts that are up there, you can
get in contact with me. There's all of that stuff.
There it comes out every Wednesday in the u.s. at
(51:21):
midnight. So you have to do the math in
Australia, to figure out what wegot it, we got it.
Tuesday afternoon here in Australia.
Okay, Tuesday afternoon. So yeah, so it's Wednesday
mornings for me in the states. It Is a weekly podcast.
And the other thing that I want to plug-in, is that As a result
(51:46):
of my experiences with the miscarriage and all of that
stuff, I've created a Facebook Community for other men and
fathers who have experienced a miscarriage.
Whether it's something that they've experienced recently,
whether it's something that theyexperienced within the past year
(52:07):
or several years, whether it's something that they've
experienced 10, 15 years from now, one of the common things
that kept coming up in the The with the few people that I spoke
with is that, while they were going through this thing, and I
even after, they wish that they had a place to go to and connect
with other dads who had gone through the same thing.
(52:27):
Yep. And needs that kept coming up as
a space, that was lacking. I finally decided to put
together, a Facebook Community, to welcome anyone who is willing
to be a part of that community, and connect and talk.
And Your resource for each otherso you can go on Facebook and
(52:49):
look up, dads and miscarriage tojoin the community.
I call it an unfortunate Community because no man should
be part of that Community, but we don't live in in a Utopia and
just the fact that one of us hasgone through.
It is reason enough to Put ourselves out there.
(53:13):
So that the next person who unfortunately goes through, it
knows that they're not alone andthey can talk to someone and
they can connect with someone who understands what they're
going through, even if the circumstances are entirely
different. So you can find that on Facebook
dads and miscarriage. And again, the podcast, welcome
(53:33):
to fatherhood on every podcasting platform.
Man, that's awesome. I love the work.
You do a man? You got to keep it up.
Keep it up. Like I said, I'm not I'm tempted
to ride your coattails man and just start tagging along on your
adventures because the stuff you're doing is absolutely
amazing. And I wish I had half the guts
(53:54):
that you have to be able to be doing what you're doing, man.
So yeah, keep it up, rather. Appreciate him.
It was great. Talking to you again, man.
I love our conversations. I love catching up with you
lawyer. You're Rueful face, bro.
I mean you're the one with the fresh cut bro.
Yeah, thank you man--what, gottacut.
(54:15):
Yeah, well you look good bro. You look good.
Thank you brother. Thank you.
I look man, thanks again for this chat man.
I love, I love connecting with you and I will make sure in
future brother. I will follow up with your I
won't just put that offer out there.
I'll make sure I follow up with you in Future made.
That's a commitment that we're both making, not just to each
(54:36):
other, but anybody else that we reach out to for to offer
support and I would encourage Any other man to any other
person who hears this to also take that same step and be the
one to follow up and not wait for the other person to follow
up first. Absolutely thanks for your time
and Kelly. Have a good one brother.
(54:58):
Thank you bro. Thanks for listening to the
show. If you want to find out more
about today's guest, just check out the links in the show notes,
you can follow the podcast as well on social media at
not-so-secret dad's business or on our website not-so-secret
dad. As business.com.
If you're listening on a podcastor Spotify, please rate review
(55:19):
the show, it helps more than in realize.
Until next time guys be the best.
Dad you can be
Coming up in this episode of not-so-secret dad's business.
A couple of things that I found interesting, where that, when I
started talking to people just people who would ask, hey, how
you doing? How's the baby and all of that
stuff? And I would start to open up and
say, I am having a tough time. Most of the reactions that I got
(00:23):
were kind of, like a suck it up buttercup, like a, you know
what, it is, what it is. This is This is what you're
supposed to go through. It's not a big deal, it'll get
better eventually. Don't sweat it, it's okay.
And that bothered me bro. A unit of fatherhood, not sure
(00:44):
if you're doubting to your full potential, well, you've come to
the right place. Most dad's aren't talking to
each other about their lives as dad's look at some kind of
secret. Well, this is the podcast that
takes the secret out of fatherhood.
This is not so So secret dad's business.
(01:10):
You do get a, welcome to anotherepisode of not-so-secret dad's
business. After seven months were finally
back, baby. Thank you for your patience,
everyone. Thanks for tuning in again and
joining me for a New Journey that this this podcast is going
to take us on. I do apologize about the
(01:31):
extended break on the podcast. I had the boat rocked up a
little bit in my dad life and I had to take care of some stuff
there, which then led me to haveto look into my own personal
growth and Fixing some issues inmy, my marriage and, you know,
my personal life overall. So I time got away from me
(01:53):
there, but we're back now. And I'm looking forward to
bringing you guys awesome brand new content, which leads me into
this week's episode. Make guest is The Great Khali
jean-philippe from the, welcome to fatherhood podcast.
In this episode, I sat down withCallie and we had bit of a chat
about how his life has been going since we last spoke.
(02:16):
How he's been transitioning intoa two-child family?
Now that he's had a new additionto the family.
We also discuss a little bit about how we need to touch base
with with each other as men, a little more often.
And we also talked about having to make the tough decision of
getting a vasectomy. This one was awesome to record
(02:38):
with Kelly. I love catching up with this guy
and I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I do.
(03:00):
Kali Mata man, how are you? Good to see you.
Good to see you man. Listen before we even get
started, let me just say how excited I am that.
You're back doing this. Like when you reached out and
you were like, hey, this thing is Starting up again, I was
like, bro. Yes, thank you for bringing it
(03:21):
back. So happy to be back, man.
Thank you, man. Thank you, man.
Those a whole heap of stuff thatwas going on there.
Till I come. I think I mentioned it on your
show. The last appearance that I did
where you know he lies biological father popped up that
threw me into a massive tailspin.
Yeah, I didn't know where we were at whether we, you know
(03:44):
what I could talk about about mydad.
Like Life and and that's where Ithink we were talking to lawyers
and child psychologists and trying to work out the best way
to handle things for Eli and ourfamily.
Yeah, and you know, I had some technical issues as well on the
back end as well. And so, I had this, have this
(04:06):
impending doom, right? When it seems like a massive job
that I tend to procrastinate andI put it off and I put it off
and that that impending doom in me.
Rises and Rises. So I finally pulled my finger
out to fix everything within an hour.
Yes, a lot man, I waited all this time and now I've got it
(04:27):
fixed like that, you know. So yeah, and that's right away.
Put a rocket up me, then it was like, yes, not-so-secret dad's
business is back baby. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm excited.
Dude, I'm really excited. So what's been going on with
you, man? There's been, there's been Heats
happening and you've got a new addition to the The family and
(04:48):
Phyllis in what's happening, bro?
Yeah, man. So, since we last chatted on
your platform, I have another baby boy that was born.
February of this year. 2023. His name is Eden.
He just turned eight weeks. Oh wow.
Two months. Holy crap, he is two months old
(05:11):
and it's been a whirlwind to saythe least.
Outta me, the first I want to say month and change, we're
really difficult and the adjustment with having a toddler
and a newborn is not for the faint of heart.
(05:32):
So there's been all sorts of upsand downs and there's been all
sorts of issues that has arised for me personally.
But right now we're at a place where things have Calm down
significantly. Julia's Camilo is an amazing big
(05:53):
brother to eat, and so dealing with his adjustment of having a
little brother and all of that stuff.
So it's been a whirlwind man. It's been, it's been a whirlwind
so that's what's been going on on the family side.
As you know, the podcast has been running and it's been going
great be making great. Connections are venturing into
(06:14):
new topics of discussion. Thinking about creating content
that you know I'm planning to like do big things with.
So a lot has been happening, allthat, one's a lot of transitions
happening all at the same time. Yeah, I'm not surprised.
(06:34):
Look, one thing I noticed recently as well with your
podcast is to such a minor change, but it jumped out at me
and slapped me in the face, right?
And I don't know, I've been For might miss it but you you
changed up your intro ban so there's no more.
This is the welcome to fatherhood podcast.
(06:58):
My name is Kelly and I'm here toremind you however, you
listening and wherever you listening as dad's, we're just
lot mom's except we're done. But I mean, it's a nice touch
man, where you you now, introducing A stand and putting
that into your intro and the wayyou've lied it out is beautiful,
(07:21):
man. What's been prompting?
The changes in your podcast? Yeah, so the change came as a
result of where I'm at in life right now.
So I have to say I tribute that perspective that desire to
change to my son eating because now that so let me back up and
(07:43):
just give you the Fuller scope of what's been going on and
trying to get to Eden after jukey.
My wife and I experienced two miscarriages and in between
getting our children, it's four in total, right?
So eat and sort of, Mark, the punctuation mark of, we're no
(08:07):
longer trying to grow our family.
So that was like a really Serenemoment where once there,
Realization settled in. I felt like, okay.
Now I can start processing. What that Journey has been like
since the beginning. Now that we're at the end and as
(08:29):
a result of all of that processing, I started to realize
very quickly that there's some work that I want to do in the
space of helping men. Have a space or creating a space
for men and fathers who have gone through the same
experiences as me to connect andto be able to process and
(08:52):
education. So so that's where a lot of my
focus is geared to now. And as a result of that, I'm
like, I want to start talking with people who would not just
bring value to the podcast, but who are like experts and in the
field that I am, Am seeking to talk to them and it just didn't
(09:16):
feel right for me to have that desire and then for them to have
their name attached to my podcast.
And then that would be the introif they wanted to use that for,
you know, their own purposes. So I was like, okay, we've
upgraded now. We're a dad of two.
Let's upgrade the feel of the podcast.
(09:37):
So that's something that I thought about for a while and I
started doing some research. Research into how to, how to, if
I want to take this podcast moreseriously than, I need to
present it in a more serious waywithout losing the essence of
who I am. So, let me just go ahead and and
(09:59):
think about how to recreate the intro and I settled on what it
is now which is just introducingmyself.
And then giving a blurb about who it is.
We're going to talk to introducing The guests, having
like a small clip of part of ourconversation and then just
jumping, you know, right into it.
(10:21):
So that's been one of the changes even the the audiograms
that I release have also changed.
So just aesthetically trying to clean things up a little bit
because I am at a point right now where my vision for the
podcast and and the Avenues thatI want to explore Are becoming a
(10:43):
lot clearer and I just want to make sure that I don't use
people who would have heard my old intro and been like I can't
take this as seriously as I wantpeople to eventually take the
platform. Yeah, I hear you, man.
(11:04):
I feel you too. I mean, you and I have a really
like work in the side mission here and I feel like, let me put
this in a way. A football idea here, right.
I feel like man. I've been fumbling the ball,
right? I know what the game is, but I
just keep fun blue. It's like they got butter all
over my hands. I can't get a grip of it.
(11:25):
Yeah. You man like you've been taking
this thing called podcasting andturning it into something really
awesome. You've got the blog going,
you've been putting out, your short form, social media
content, your videos and all that sort of thing.
Switching up the intro. Like you've just picked up that
(11:46):
pigskin and you've tucked it under your arm and you've just
been running for the End Zone, you know, to me.
Yeah, dude, because part of it man, the the driving force
behind all of this is that I want to turn this into what I
do. Like I want to leave my
nine-to-five eventually and focus my attention in this space
(12:08):
and the doors that I've knocked on that.
I have been open for me like I want to enter into those Arenas
and really be a major contributor in them.
So I'm looking, I'm looking towards the future and I just
feel like I need to make small changes that like I said
(12:31):
earlier, I'm still being true tomyself but also setting myself
up for Success. Once the opportunity gets there,
Absolutely, man, I love what you're doing.
I love how you doing it and I wish I could ride your coattails
in a way, a man. Like I think my biggest issue
personally is got a bit of Life,an impostor syndrome.
(12:53):
Like why would anybody listen tome?
I'm not an authority on this. You know what I mean?
There are so many dads out thereto think and know what they're
doing, so why should they be listening to me?
Yeah, and it seems man that you've not had that issue.
Maybe you have, but I listened to this day, I have that issue
(13:15):
to this day. I have that issue.
So at the beginning of this year, I saw something on
LinkedIn that said something to the effect of I'm scared.
But I'm going to do with scared anyway, and I've really kind of
taken that. And okay, I'm gonna run with
(13:37):
this. So how this applies is, I still
have these internal voices that are like, listen, dude, what
you're doing? Like you think the message that
you're putting out? There is something that people
want to hear, but look at all ofthe struggles that you're
getting and connecting with people to have that level.
(13:58):
Of of conversation with you, like it's just not happening.
I had an ad on Instagram runningfor like two months looking for
dads who had gone through miscarriages to come and talk to
me. And what have you?
And I will throw. I was thinking that listen, I'm
gonna get at least half a dozen.At least a dozen only got like,
(14:21):
two or three people who responded to the ad and another
one or two who reached out to me, personally, you know what?
And I was like, mankell. You like you spent money on this
and the return didn't pay out, really.
So I still have all sorts of Doubt, bro.
(14:42):
But to take this little post that I saw on LinkedIn too hard.
I'm like in spite of that, I'm still gonna go through with this
as if I were like crushing the game because if I don't do it
then nobody's gonna do it for me.
And at this point I've invested too much into this.
(15:05):
I care about this too much for me to just not grow my attitude
about it and not let that attitude evolve.
Yep, I hear you man. And I mean, look, I think
otherwise, I had still paid off dividends because he did end up
making almost like a mini seriesjust on that topic there.
(15:28):
And And the information that came out of that now was
life-changing for a lot of people.
I'm sure I've not had that experience myself.
So I can't put myself in your shoes brother, but I can only
imagine how helpful that is for dads Because from what I'm
hearing, what you just said withthat ad, you were thinking,
(15:48):
yeah, I'll get half a dozen. Maybe a dozen hits.
And you didn't, but that's obviously because dads are
scared, man. They don't know how to navigate
it, because they're trying to work it out for themselves and I
add, so still doing that miniseries.
That you've done and your seriesof blogs on the topic of
miscarriage as well. I think just having that there
(16:11):
as a resource for Dad's just to check out I think Matt it's just
awesome, I appreciate that. So moving forward a little bit
man. Obviously having Julius Camilo.
He's a toddler now. He's what three?
Yeah, he's about to be me. Three in May.
Yeah, so you've really settled into the dad life there.
(16:35):
But then, of course, having eaten, come along.
That's probably taken the jar and shaken up.
All the the fireflies. Tell me how that's been for you
man. So I had a friend tell me before
eating was born. She said, you think, you know
something about parenting, take that whatever it is you think
(16:56):
you know and just throw it out the window once eaten gets here
because it's going to be a totally different ballgame.
And I appreciated her telling methat because it at least gave me
a sense of comfort in knowing that, I'm not going to or
Shouldn't necessarily rely on what I know about parenting
(17:21):
jukey, like I need to be open tothe possibility that things are
going to be 100% different, right?
So eat and gets here and he set me and my wife up, bro.
Like he set us up because the first night he was born or after
he was born, my man, slept the whole night, I mean not a peep,
(17:43):
he slept the whole night. Right the following night until
today. It's been downhill from there.
I mean homie doesn't sleep so because he doesn't sleep.
That means we're not sleeping and there's a bit of regression
that happened. Once we brought him home with
(18:06):
jukey because now he's having toadjust to having another person
who is taking up all of the time.
Time that he would normally havewith Mommy and Daddy.
Yeah. Which had, then to counter that
I had to spend a lot more intentional intense time with
(18:27):
him. Since my wife was, I mean, she's
basically the milk lady for Eden.
I mean, that's that's who she is.
So being sleep deprived. Was one thing having to give so
much more of my energy to my toddler while also being there
(18:52):
to be like a gopher to my wife or for my wife because she had a
C-section so she couldn't do a lot of things.
I mean, it was really a lot of intense stuff happening at the
same time while also trying to bond with my newborn because
That's the reason why I took offfrom work so I could bond with
(19:12):
my newborn and when I tell you Nate it was tough bro.
It was tough. Like I'm not there's no
sugarcoating. It.
It was tough and parts of it arestill tough, a couple of things
that I found interesting where that, when I started talking to
people, just people who ask, hey, how you doing?
(19:33):
How's the baby and all of that stuff?
And I would start to open up andsay I am having Having a tough
time, most of the reactions thatI got were kind of, like a suck
it up buttercup, like a, you know what, it is, what it is.
This is, this is what you're supposed to go through.
It's not a big deal, it'll get better eventually, don't sweat
(19:58):
it, it's okay. And that bother me, bro, because
On the one hand, we have this expectation for dads and men to
you know, talk about the struggles that we're going
through as we're going through them and I felt at that time
that people weren't listening tome, they didn't necessarily care
(20:21):
that I was going through a really tough time.
It was like that's none of my business.
Really like what else did you expect?
And on the one hand yeah. What else did I expect it was
Going to be hard, but on the other hand, it would have been
so much more encouraging so muchmore beneficial if the majority
(20:43):
of people at least made me feel like what I was saying was
valid, right? So there were very few people
who validated what I had said tothem, when I spoke to them at
the time. And so, I was like, all right,
man. I'm going to stop opening up to
people and telling people that I'm having a tough time because
clearly, they don't care. But in the home, I am Snappy
(21:07):
with jukey, I'm Snappy with my wife because I'm sleep-deprived
and I'm tired, and I'm irritated, and I'm all that.
And one day, I just came down towhere I'm sitting at right now,
which is my space. I got on my computer, I took out
my insurance card and I called anumber in the Of the insurance
(21:28):
card and I said, hey I need you to hook me up with a therapist
because I need help and if I don't get this help, I am going
to be very detrimental to my son.
I'm going to be very detrimentalto my wife.
I'm not gonna be as healthy a person as I possibly can and I
(21:53):
don't want to go down that rabbit hole.
So I initiated a relationship with with my therapist and it's
been going on for a little over a month now.
And it's been really helpful. I mean, we're still in the
beginning stages of it, but I didn't even go through the whole
(22:14):
thing of trying to find the right match.
I just needed someone who would listen And so the first number I
called and the person picked up and we set up a meeting and
she's the person that I've been sticking with this whole time
until I get a sense. If I ever get a sense that she's
(22:34):
not the right person to stick with, she's listening to me,
bro. Like that's, that's, that's all
I care about. So, That's been my experience
for the most part. Just I'm just just not shying
away from how difficult it has been acknowledging difficult.
(22:55):
It has been telling people thosewho are willing to listen that
it's been difficult while. Also enjoying the pockets of
moments, where it's all fallen in place perfectly where Juke
he's fine. Eating is fine.
My Wife is fine. I'm fine, we're enjoying each
other's company as a family. We're growing we're doing things
(23:19):
but you know we're still we're still sleep-deprived man.
Before I came down here, eating was he took like a 20-minute nap
and then he woke up and not my wife is dealing with them right
now. So by the time we finish here,
he'll probably be asleep. And then, as soon as I get
upstairs, who most likely wake up again?
And then I'll just be up until whenever All right, man.
(23:41):
Look firstly, I'm so glad you actually went out and seek to
help you know the fact that you took the initiative go and do
that is awesome. Because again, as we both know,
a lot of guys won't do that. Yeah.
Secondly, on my part, I apologize, man.
Like, I told you, you know, I asked you, how you go man and
(24:01):
you're like, I'm having a hard time and I'm like, well, I'm
always here, man. Just jump in my DMs, you know,
and I didn't follow up on that. I figured Again a typical guy
mentality. I've put that out there if you
need me, jump in my DMs right. But I never followed up on that.
The oh hey looked you need to talk and I know there's not a
(24:23):
whole heap I can do I'm on the other side of the planet.
Man. Yeah.
So it's not like I can just comearound for coffee or anything
like that but when I when I saidbecause if you need to talk
getting my DMs like I meant that, you know, but Hearing what
you've just said. I've I kind of feel like I
dropped the ball as well as damnfucking Butterfingers man.
(24:44):
Like I just I didn't think to step back up and go.
Hey, man. Like do you need to talk?
How would you do and what's going on with you?
Like yeah, I mean I appreciate you saying that and there's
really no need for you to apologize, although I appreciate
it because what what's what I like about?
What's Happening Here is Acknowledging that it's for both
(25:09):
of us that it's not just enough to offer the person who is going
through something the opportunity to reach out to you.
If they want to to your point, there is an extra mile to go or
an extra mile or two to go and be intentional on the part of
the person who does the offer. Because I've done the same thing
(25:31):
I've offered people, you know, hey especially people who are
Into Parenthood and to fatherhood and I'm like, Hey
listen it can be tough. I'm pretty sure you have you
know, people around you who you love and they love you and you
respect their opinions and they'll support you in the event
(25:52):
that you need extra support. I'm also here and then I don't
reach out again, right? And so if that person is going
through something I want no because I Didn't take that extra
step for them, also exact. So, yeah, you saying that is
making me recall, a number of guys that I've said that to and
(26:17):
now I need to hit them up and apologize to them for not taking
that extra step. Well, I mean that's yeah, that's
something we gonna do. I think, as men, we've got to
stop and and the fuck man, like,I got to write chat more because
again, like I don't know you'll have experienced this as well
(26:39):
like in your own mind where you've had that.
Where I can look man, there's the offer.
You need me. Fucking hit me up.
Yeah. Then you do you you're in that
moment. You're like man I think I should
message them. No I don't want to bother them
with my problem as so then you just keep it to yourself.
Sometimes it kind of feels like that offer from somebody else is
(27:02):
somewhat disingenuous. Hmm.
That's the correct word. I'm gonna go with it, I'm gonna
get it, you know like yeah, it sometimes feels like that.
Offer of like, hey, come hit me up if you ever need me.
It's almost like it's just a script, it's a regurgitation of
(27:23):
like hey man and so you really don't take it up seriously.
I think you do look they offeredbut I'm sure they don't have the
time to deal with my shit, right?
Right now. So I'll just pull up my Big Boy
socks and I'll just keep moving forward the best I can.
Yeah, and the other part of the of this to need is there for the
(27:45):
person like myself who's going through, you know, this really
difficult moment. There's something that happens
in the mind that it just naturally ice made me feel
isolated from everybody else. So even, even though I knew the
invitation not just from you, but from other guys who had
(28:08):
reached out and said the same thing, hey, if you need to talk,
hit me up, you know like those were out there.
But in the thick of what I was going through, like I wasn't
actively thinking about all man.Nate did hit me up and tell me
(28:28):
this or this person did tell me that it was.
It just felt so isolating and part of that isolation was self
made as a result of the lack of sleep.
And you know, the irritation allof the transitions like the men.
Total capacity to tap into theseresources that were there.
(28:53):
It just wasn't happening it justwasn't happening.
So that whole period is so complex and is so complicated
and convoluted and it's such a blur, it can be at least that
you know, intentionality on bothparts.
I'm not going to say one more than the other, but if I had to,
(29:16):
I'll definitely say, you know, true to what we just expressed.
If I'm the person who made the offer to want to support the
person a little more intentionality from that part
towards the person who's going through the situation, I think
could really go a long way. Even if the person doesn't at
(29:38):
the moment, you know, open up and say what their Juggling
with, but at least it will startto plant seeds like okay.
This person is at least checkingin, right?
And that's something that we canoffer to each other as man and
fathers regardless of having a newborn or whatever the
(30:01):
situation is is like I just wantto.
I just want you to know that I'mhere and I'm gonna be here until
you tell me. I don't need to be here anymore.
Yeah, absolutely. And you're totally right.
Just having those follow-ups to make a fresh in the mind that,
hey, like, I'm still here in your corner, bro.
(30:24):
Like, you know, I'm your cut man, laughs going to beat you
up, but I'm here to stitch you up right man.
Like, you know, I've do think that's important.
Another thing I wanted to ask you about all this massive
transition, man, and I mean, it's moving away from, from us
as dad's. But how has Julia's Camilo been
going like Adapting to the role of being a big brother man.
(30:48):
Like how's he coping? Yeah he he started having a
better time of late so we've tried every trick in the book
and all of it has produced some good and there's been some
challenges even in every technique that we've tried,
(31:08):
right? So there's the sense of
including him in the care of Eden.
So, So we're changing the diapers and it's like, hey,
buddy. Can you go get mommy or daddy a
diaper? Can you get a, can you get some
wipes? You know, can you do this?
Can you do that and willingly? He, he just does it.
(31:28):
Now, when his brother cries, youknow, he goes up to him and he's
like, it's okay, it's okay, you're gonna be okay.
So here, you know, he starts soothing him, if I put a pasi
and Eaton's mouth, his like no Daddy, Let him cry because I've
been telling him. It's okay for him to cry.
Yeah. So you know it's like hey, no,
hey, Dad, let him cry. So all of that has been cool.
(31:54):
There are the times when Eden just doesn't, let my wife and I
sleep at night. And then in the morning, jukey
wakes up and he is just ready tostart his day and my wife, and I
have barely gotten any sleep. And he can't understand how come
(32:16):
we just went through an entire night and we're still tired when
he woke up with so much energy. So then we end up saying, hey,
you know, we can't do this now and instead of being inviting
and like it's just like, hey buddy.
Everything is a no no no. So then obviously that
(32:37):
frustrates him but there are absand Flow.
Clothes and his transition. I'm going to say that for the
most part I consider myself quite lucky and that I had an
image of how horrible things might have gone.
(32:59):
It hasn't been, as bad as I thought it would be based on my
mental image, two months in and I think there has been more
positive. Outcomes then negative outcomes.
Like there's been more positive times, a negative X, which is a
testament to how resilient he is, how adaptable he is, how
(33:25):
willing to collaborate with us and and loving his brother.
He is, you know, he still wants us to be in particular to pick
him up and, you know, carry him and stuff like that.
So what we started doing is WhenJudy was born, I sang a song to
(33:46):
him. That's like our song.
When Eden was born at the moment, I didn't sing a song to
him but like a day or two later a song came to me.
And so that became our Stone. And one day I was playing, I was
holding eaten and then I was playing our song.
Together is By Your Side by Sadeand I'm dancing with Eden and
(34:11):
jukka was like, is that That, isthat a song for me?
And I said, well, nobody. This is the song that Daddy has
for Eden. And then I said to him, you
know, when you were born, I had a song for you.
So he, he was like, can you playthat song like yeah, I play it.
So can you pick me up? So we could dance to it.
Yeah, I figured we could dance to it since that day that's been
(34:35):
like a month and a half now, almost every day.
I have to play that song for me and Dukey Pick him up so we can
dance to it. And that song is You'll Be in my
Heart, not the Phil Collins version but the Usher remix and
In my opinion, better than the original and I'll fight anybody
(35:00):
who thinks otherwise. But so, you know and doing those
things, just kind of creating the sense of I am not more
Eaton's dad than I am your dad. I am both of your dad's and I
love both of you as much. One is not more important than
(35:20):
the other. It's just sometimes Daddy.
Wants to carry eating and when I'm carrying eating, I can't
carry you at the same time although I have carried both of
them at the same time at times just to you know help him
understand that I'm not choosingfavorite.
So all that to say man he's he'shad his ups and downs and he
(35:43):
continues to have his ups and downs.
But there are more UPS than Downs.
Quite honestly. That's awesome.
And I think that having that moment where you put his song on
for him as well, I think that obviously, that was a catalyst
moment for jukey, right? And, and it's just made him feel
more included in the family. I guess.
(36:03):
You know, I mean, I remember when I was a little kid, my
sister, I mean, I'm the oldest of Life, man.
So, we're my first little sisterwas born.
I remember how I was feeling. I mean, I was too at the time,
but as I was growing up. But was like, man, like I used
to be special because I was the baby, you know, I'm not the baby
(36:24):
anymore. And I know how it feels from
from a kid's perspective becauselike, you still want that
attention from your parents and you can't get it because the
baby needs the attention. You have people on the outside.
So that moment right there, man,where you've played that song,
it's I guess it's made it like solidified, it in dukey's heart.
(36:46):
That dad still loves me. I'm Not being replaced as to we
are now bigger unit. Yeah family we've we've got a
bigger team. We got more players on the court
man. Yeah, do it together.
Absolutely man. If I can take this time to to
highlight some of the things that have worked for me, in
(37:08):
terms of how we've been able to keep jukey, Feeling that he's
still special even though there's somebody else that might
seem threatening but he's reallynot every night.
Now, I'm the one who puts him tosleep and it's intentional so I
(37:30):
can talk to him review, the day with him, ask him how he's
feeling talk about our feelings and then we have this our night
routine. I love you.
I'm proud of you. God bless you, out of all the
Juke, he's in the world. You are Daddy's favorite Jew key
and I kiss him seven times and then a whole bunch of other
(37:53):
kisses and all of that stuff. But then that has also evolved
to like this really intimate moment where me and my son, we
get to connect and in a unique way to our relationship, right?
That's like a reminder of What life was like before his brother
(38:15):
got there? Yeah, so creating that routine
and maintaining that routine. Even if I'm ticked off, even if
I'm tired because there's been nights where he has really
ticked me off and I'm like, Hey listen dude, daddy does not
necessarily want to talk to you right now but I'm gonna sit here
(38:37):
and we could talk anyway I'm just keeping it real with them,
right? But Still spending that time
together. Yep.
And what found fascinating is that sometimes I tell my wife
hey, can you can you like go puthim to sleep?
Cuz I just need a little break and she goes and then she comes
back in the room and she says, He's expecting you to come in
(39:02):
and talk to him so creating thatroutine whatever that routine is
for for you. Right?
Like, find something from the time before that new baby came
in and then that and bring it into your time.
Now as an expanded family and dedicate that special thing.
(39:27):
Do that special thing with With the first born just to
communicate to them. That hey, ain't nothing changed.
There is no threat here. Yep.
You're still special and for me that has gone a long long way.
Dude. That's great idea.
Yeah bringing in some of the oldold routine into the new routine
(39:50):
and and still making it a normalroutine.
Yeah yeah. See like other Christine and I
we've been talking about having a second child for a while now.
We've been, you know, looking through fertility treatment and
all that sort of thing as well. We haven't picked up on it again
as of late. But I mean, I've been jokingly
saying the Christina. I don't think I want a second
(40:12):
one like Because Eli has been soeasy.
Yeah. Like I mean, this could notice
that most kids will come into your room at 5:00 or 6:00 in the
morning as soon as they're awake.
Mom dad, like hey, it's daylight, let's start our day,
you know, but Eli is the complete opposite.
(40:34):
I came downstairs this morning. I slept in two hours longer than
I normally would and he's just sitting on the couch in front of
the TV. The TV's off.
And I'm like, I thought you'd beplaying the Xbox or watching
your cartoons or something. Buddy.
You guys know just been sitting quietly on the couch.
(40:56):
Oh well, you're allowed to guess.
Nah, I was just waiting for you to wake up so I could ask you if
it was okay. And I'm like, man, like we've
drummed it into it tried to drumit, into him, like you need mum
or dad, you come get us, that hewill not wake us, not bother us.
And so I said to, Christine man.If we have a second one, like we
(41:18):
will never sleep. We won't have hair left because
we'll pull it all out. Like, Eli has given us too much
of a good run that Karma has to come.
And fuck that shit up, excuse mylanguage.
But I mean, that's all I could, it's the best way of saying it,
for me, I think is that Parma will come in, take that whole
(41:40):
thing, turn it upside down and go.
Haha, welcome to fatherhood Night and I had to relearn
parenting all over again. So I'm like I really I really
want to have a baby for alive sake and want to give him a
similar and he's been asking us for a baby sister.
Yeah but that's what we'd love to do but I know for a fact that
(42:05):
now we've been living on Easy Street for the last seven years.
You know, he's coming up on 7 July.
He's been the easiest kid I've ever met.
And yeah, we Have another one. It's just going to take that
thing and just shake it up now, dude.
Yes, listen, having a second kidand I'm only speaking from the
(42:27):
perspective of going from 1 to 2.
I am fully aware that there are people who have three or
whatever, but that transition going from 1 to 2 is a really
tough transition, bro. And in the throes of my really
(42:51):
difficult time and early on, in the transition, I posted
something on Instagram that I was like, hey I need y'all to
give me your best advice on how to navigate this transition.
And this guy that I connected with, I think he is in the UK,
he wrote to me and he said, listen, I have seven boys.
(43:12):
And I've been through this multiple times.
Times. Obviously he said nothing has
been as hard as the first time when I went through it.
It was like nothing has been as hard then that first trans.
Once you go through that transition, once the other ones
(43:32):
it seems like not that they get easier but you're more equipped.
Yeah. But that first transition man,
listen is not for the faint of heart.
It is not for the faint of heart.
Now, let me we've got it. 15 minutes left.
So I think this is good chance to actually touch on this as
well is that you're only planning on doing this
transition once? Are you brother?
(43:55):
Yeah dude. Yeah, I got an appointment
coming up to snip snip because I've that's it.
We're not trying to grow our family anymore.
You know, like I said at the top, we experienced multiple
miscarriages, and it's taken a toll, mentally, physically.
(44:15):
And Emotionally and all the other leaves.
You could probably possibly think of.
So yeah, dude, we're done weird.I can only imagine a man like
yeah, you know, Christine and I had had negative pregnancy tests
and had that moment to sit thereand cry but then to have that
moment where you've got, you know, you've got a baby coming
(44:38):
and then losing it. I can't I can't fucking imagine
man. So I mean it's sure I mean I
guess It's not for everyone, butthe moon that's a decision that
you've made that you've decided is good for your family and I
think that's awesome man. I've heard some horror stories
but I've also heard some good stories as well, you know.
(44:58):
But I mean I guess I'm not upside as well.
It means that you know not no longer need to keep the rubber
Johnny's in the bedside cabinet either like you can you guys can
enjoy your time. No consequences involved.
None. None, take that.
Throw all of it out because we know like, that's it, that is
(45:19):
it. And, you know, obviously like
you said, it's a decision that every family has to make for
themselves. Having that conversation with my
wife and being on the same page Paramount.
Because we both felt after our fourth miscarriage, we could
have stopped there. And we could have said, We're
(45:42):
not going to do this anymore. We're more than content with
jukey. Like we're just more than
content. Yeah.
But we both felt incomplete. Yep.
And that's the word that we bothkept coming to and as a result
of that, then we had more conversations that led us to try
again. And we're so blessed to have
(46:03):
gotten eaten. So after that, like, we both
went into it understanding that even if it resulted in a a fifth
miscarriage. Then that was it, you know what
I mean? So to be able to have that level
of conversation with your spousewith your partner and
(46:25):
understanding, that whatever wants feeling is about what's
going on. If if they're people who have
had five, six, seven miscarriages and they still
tried until and that's like if that's what you and your family
decided to do at kudos to you. Yeah for us it was just like now
(46:51):
we're done and it's such a huge load off our backs.
Now that we're not even in that headspace to, you know, when are
we going to try and It's a done deal.
It's a done deal. Yep.
So how do you feel on a personallevel and I'm taking away
family, I'm taking away these discussions, you've had with
(47:13):
your wife, I'm taking away, everything else.
This is purely Kelly jean-philippe right now.
How do you feel about it? Because I mean, like, Every man
protects like his jewels, right?That's, that's it's almost like
a man's identity in a way. Yeah.
And I mean, I remember, even back in the day, man, like men
(47:35):
would refuse to have a, vasectomy is like, know, if she
doesn't want to have any more babies, she can have her tubes
tied, or she can do what she wants and I think that climate
has changed now significantly. I've heard a lot more dad's now
coming outside with done with. Maybe some getting, I'm getting
a snip on a personal level. How you feeling with all of
(47:59):
that, man? Dude, I that is something that I
offer to my wife as like once wedo this.
This is what I'm going to do. Like I volunteered myself for
(48:20):
that because so to answer your question more directly like I
feel completely at peace with it.
This is my own decision that I made.
It was influenced by watching the toll that pregnancy took on
(48:41):
my wife. Yeah it was influenced by
watching on two occasions. My wife having to be opened up
so that we an receive our children, right?
And her body has been through a lot.
The least I could do Is to get avasectomy and to even feel like
(49:09):
I can step in the same Arena as her if you will, and light of
everything that she put her bodythrough, so that I could call
myself a father. You know what I mean?
Like, man, I love it. That's, that's like, I don't
know. That's, that's another level
right there, man. That's, that's just allowed.
(49:30):
I think, you know, the fact thatyou can, you can recognize, how
much physical trauma. She's been through, just to give
you two kids and then, for you to go and you know what, now
it's my turn to do this a littlebit.
It doesn't compare to what you've been through, but you
know what, it's my turn. My turn to do this for you now.
Yeah, absolutely. Lie, like you don't have to do
(49:52):
anything else to your, you don'thave to do anything else.
If I have in my realm of responsibility, if this is what
I have to do, then it's a no-brainer for me.
So that that's my thoughts and my attitude towards your man.
Heli man. That's I'll just I love the way
(50:13):
you think I love, I love the wayyou look after your family.
I love everything about you man.Like you are and a one person in
my book. So you know, I like dude, I
appreciate that, bro. Well look, we're gonna have to
wrap this one up big boy, but before we go you got you got a
plot, the podcast, man. I mean, in my opinion, welcome
(50:36):
to fatherhood is out there man, it's up there.
So plug away, bro. So the podcast is called,
welcome to fatherhood. You can find it on every podcast
platform available. You can check out the website
www.walnuthilltracking.com are the hood.com.
(51:00):
You can see a picture of me and my family.
I need to update that picture now that eating is here but you
can read about how I started theplatform.
You can read some of the blog posts that are up there, you can
get in contact with me. There's all of that stuff.
There it comes out every Wednesday in the u.s. at
(51:21):
midnight. So you have to do the math in
Australia, to figure out what wegot it, we got it.
Tuesday afternoon here in Australia.
Okay, Tuesday afternoon. So yeah, so it's Wednesday
mornings for me in the states. It Is a weekly podcast.
And the other thing that I want to plug-in, is that As a result
(51:46):
of my experiences with the miscarriage and all of that
stuff, I've created a Facebook Community for other men and
fathers who have experienced a miscarriage.
Whether it's something that they've experienced recently,
whether it's something that theyexperienced within the past year
(52:07):
or several years, whether it's something that they've
experienced 10, 15 years from now, one of the common things
that kept coming up in the The with the few people that I spoke
with is that, while they were going through this thing, and I
even after, they wish that they had a place to go to and connect
with other dads who had gone through the same thing.
(52:27):
Yep. And needs that kept coming up as
a space, that was lacking. I finally decided to put
together, a Facebook Community, to welcome anyone who is willing
to be a part of that community, and connect and talk.
And Your resource for each otherso you can go on Facebook and
(52:49):
look up, dads and miscarriage tojoin the community.
I call it an unfortunate Community because no man should
be part of that Community, but we don't live in in a Utopia and
just the fact that one of us hasgone through.
It is reason enough to Put ourselves out there.
(53:13):
So that the next person who unfortunately goes through, it
knows that they're not alone andthey can talk to someone and
they can connect with someone who understands what they're
going through, even if the circumstances are entirely
different. So you can find that on Facebook
dads and miscarriage. And again, the podcast, welcome
(53:33):
to fatherhood on every podcasting platform.
Man, that's awesome. I love the work.
You do a man? You got to keep it up.
Keep it up. Like I said, I'm not I'm tempted
to ride your coattails man and just start tagging along on your
adventures because the stuff you're doing is absolutely
amazing. And I wish I had half the guts
(53:54):
that you have to be able to be doing what you're doing, man.
So yeah, keep it up, rather. Appreciate him.
It was great. Talking to you again, man.
I love our conversations. I love catching up with you
lawyer. You're Rueful face, bro.
I mean you're the one with the fresh cut bro.
Yeah, thank you man--what, gottacut.
(54:15):
Yeah, well you look good bro. You look good.
Thank you brother. Thank you.
I look man, thanks again for this chat man.
I love, I love connecting with you and I will make sure in
future brother. I will follow up with your I
won't just put that offer out there.
I'll make sure I follow up with you in Future made.
That's a commitment that we're both making, not just to each
(54:36):
other, but anybody else that we reach out to for to offer
support and I would encourage Any other man to any other
person who hears this to also take that same step and be the
one to follow up and not wait for the other person to follow
up first. Absolutely thanks for your time
and Kelly. Have a good one brother.
(54:58):
Thank you bro. Thanks for listening to the
show. If you want to find out more
about today's guest, just check out the links in the show notes,
you can follow the podcast as well on social media at
not-so-secret dad's business or on our website not-so-secret
dad. As business.com.
If you're listening on a podcastor Spotify, please rate review
(55:19):
the show, it helps more than in realize.
Until next time guys be the best.
Dad you can be
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