December 2, 2024 • 27 mins
What happens when a self-proclaimed anarcho-capitalist becomes the president of Argentina? We're diving into the radical journey of Javier Mele, a man who wields a chainsaw as a symbol of his campaign to cut through bureaucracy and minimize government intervention. Known for drawing inspiration from Austrian School economists like Murray Rothbard, Mele has become a beacon of radical change amidst Argentina's economic crisis. This episode unravels the bold reforms he's implemented, from drastic government cuts to anti-corruption measures, and addresses the fierce criticisms he faces from both hardcore anarchists and political opponents.
Find out how Mele's admiration for leaders like Donald Trump influences his approach to politics, including his controversial proposal for dollarization in Argentina. We explore the potential impacts of his presidency, questioning whether his swift actions will lead to long-term success or unintended consequences. With a knack for connecting emotionally with the public, Mele challenges the status quo and ignites debates about the future of governance. Join us for a captivating discussion on what Mele's leadership means for Argentina and the ripple effects it could have on the global stage.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
All right.
So today we are going to deepdive into the world of Javier
Mele.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Argentina's new president.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
This will be fun and he's not your average politician
.
Definitely not.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
This is a guy who campaigned with a chainsaw A
chainsaw Promising to slashthrough Argentina's bureaucracy.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
It's a striking image , for sure.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
It is a striking image.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
But it gets even more interesting when you learn that
Mele is a self-proclaimedanarcho-capitalist.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Yeah, that's where it gets a little tricky for me.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
So ideally no government.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Yeah.
So how does somebody whobelieves in abolishing the state
end up leading one?
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Right, you know how does that work.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
That's scratcher.
Luckily we have Mele's ownwords to guide us.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
OK, cool.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
We're using his interview on the Lex Fridman
podcast.
Right, so we're going straightto the source.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
And what's interesting is his path to this
pretty radical philosophy wasn'ta straight line.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
OK.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
He started out as a traditional economist
Interesting.
So what flipped the script?
Speaker 2 (01:01):
He actually credits reading an article by Murray
Rothbard, who's a major figurein the Austrian School of
Economics.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Up until that point he had been teaching Keynesian
economics Okay, but Rothbard'swork made him question
everything he thought he knewabout economics.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
So it was like a total light bulb moment.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
It was a light bulb moment.
Yeah, he describes it asfeeling like everything he had
been teaching was totally wrongwow he talks about Rothbard,
helping him to understand theinherent flaws in central
planning right, yeah andgovernment intervention.
Okay, and he really went deepon this, devouring the works of
(01:41):
other Austrian school thinkersLudwig von Mises, friedrich
Hayek.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
So he goes from mainstream economics to wanting
to like completely dismantle thestate.
But how does he justify beingpresident?
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Right.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
If he's an anarcho-capitalist.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Yeah, isn't that a contradiction?
Well, he actually addressesthis.
He makes a distinction betweenbeing an anarcho-capitalist,
someone who wants no state, andwhat he calls a menarchist,
which is how he describes hisapproach as president.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
So menarchist is.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Menarchist basically means believing in the absolute
minimal, the smallest governmentpossible.
So while the ideal might be nostate at all, in reality he's
focused on shrinking it.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
As much as possible.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
But I bet that doesn't sit well with a lot of
the hardcore anarchists.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Oh yeah, he's gotten some criticism.
He calls it the Nirvana fallacy.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
The Nirvana fallacy.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
This idea that if something's not perfect, it's
not worth doing at all.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Yeah, gotcha.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
And he gives a great analogy to explain this.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Hit me.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Okay, so picture a soccer stadium Right Packed with
fans.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
They're cheering their hearts out.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
They're creating this electric atmosphere, right, but
they're not actually moving theball on the field.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
Right, the players are the ones doing that.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Yeah, so it's the action that matters, not just
the cheering from the sidelines.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Yeah, it's like, okay , you can complain all you want.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
But if you're not actually out there, Exactly.
Making the changes.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
You're not contributing.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Then what are you doing?
Right, you know.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
And speaking of action, yeah, hit the ground
running.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Yeah, he did.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
When he took office.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Huge reform.
Massive rapid fire reform, Justboom boom.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Slashing ministries, cutting government jobs,
removing price controls,tackling corruption, especially
in social welfare programs.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Wow, that's a lot.
So what was the thinking behindthose?
Speaker 2 (03:40):
I mean you have to remember the state of Argentina.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Right.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
When he inherited it.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Yeah, it was a mess.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
It was a mess, it was a total economic crisis.
Hyperinflation.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Massive debt.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Uh-huh.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Widespread poverty.
Yeah, it was a dire situation.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
He felt he had to take drastic action.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
So it was like an economic triage, yeah, like.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Stabilize the patient .
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Then worry about long-term recovery.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
And the scale of his fiscal adjustment.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
It's unprecedented Right 15% reduction in
government spending relative toGDP.
Who even claims.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
It's the biggest fiscal adjustment in the history
of humanity.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Okay, well, that's a bold claim.
Yeah, I mean, with cuts thatbig, there have to be some
consequences.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
There were one of the most surprising outcomes.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Poverty actually increased.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Wait what.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Initially after he took office.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
How does that happen?
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Yeah, it's counterintuitive?
Hardly, but he argues that thisactually reveals the extent of
the problem he inherited he says, by removing price consoles and
subsidies that wereartificially propping up the
economy.
He exposed the true level ofpoverty.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
That's like ripping off a Band-Aid.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Exactly.
It's painful, but it allows fora more accurate diagnosis.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
You can actually see what's going on Exactly.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
He believes those interventions were creating a
false sense of security andultimately doing more harm than
good.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
So he had to get rid of them.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
He had to rip off the Band-Aid.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
But that must have been painful for a lot of people
.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
It was a tough sell.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Right he acknowledges that.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
But he insisted that it was necessary to achieve long
term stability and prosperity,and he points to the fact that
real wages and employment havestarted to recover since then.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
OK, so there are signs that things are going in
the right direction?
There are, but it's stillreally early.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Very early.
The political and social costsof these reforms are still very
much being debated.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
So this is all super fascinating.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Yeah, but We've just scratched the surface.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Mylai's economic reforms are just one piece, one
piece Of his radical agenda.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
He's also going after corruption.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Oh, yeah, tell me about that.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Huge.
We're talking dismantlingcorrupt welfare schemes,
tackling street blockades, whichhe sees as tools of extortion,
and he's even going after thehighest levels of power.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Yeah, I mean, one of his biggest achievements has to
be the conviction of formerPresident Cristina Fernandez de
Kirchner Huge On corruptioncharges.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
That's a big deal, it is.
Where does this anti-corruptioncrusade come from?
Well, is it just about fixing abroken system.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
I think it's safe to say that his views on corruption
are deeply tied to hislibertarian philosophy.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
OK.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Corruption, for him, is a symptom of a bloated,
overreaching government.
Ok, so less government equalsless government equals less
opportunity, less corruption.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Less government equals less opportunity, less
corruption.
Corruption, less corruption.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
That makes sense.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
It's a pretty straightforward equation In
theory, in theory, but it's notjust about the size.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
It's also about transparency and accountability.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
OK.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
He sees free speech.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
A free press as essential weapons Interesting In
this fight against corruption.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
And that's where his somewhat controversial
admiration for Elon Musk comesin.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
For Elon Musk.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
He views Musk as a champion of free speech Right,
particularly through hisacquisition of Twitter.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Now X Mylai believes that social media platforms are
crucial for bypassing what hesees as the corrupt and biased
mainstream media.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
So he's not just fighting corruption like in the
traditional sense, he's tryingto dismantle.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
He wants to dismantle the whole system.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
A whole system that allows corruption to thrive, the
whole system and this actuallyties into his broader concerns
about what he calls culturalMarxism.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Okay, this is where things get.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
This is where things get a little complicated.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
A little more complicated.
It's important to understandwhat he means.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Yeah, cultural Marxism by that.
It's one of those phrases getsthrown around a lot.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
It is.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
I'm not sure everybody really knows what it
means.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
It's a term that has been adopted by certain segments
of the right to describe whatthey see as a creeping leftist
influence on culture, education,the media.
For Miley, it represents athreat to traditional values and
individual freedom.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
So it's basically a catch-all.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
It's a catch-all.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
For ideas that he sees as antithetical to his
libertarian worldview Exactly.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
It's a major driving force behind his cultural agenda
.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Gotcha.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
He believes this cultural Marxism is being used
to undermine individualresponsibility, promote
dependency on the state andultimately erode freedom.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
So we've got, like this economic battle and a
cultural battle.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
It's a two pronged approach.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
OK.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
But before we get too deep into that, there's one
more piece of the puzzle.
Yeah, we need to address hisrelationship with Donald Trump.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
OK, the my lie Trump connection.
It's fascinating, it is I meanon the surface they seem like.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
Kindred spirits.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Kindred spirits, spirits, gingrich spirits right,
I'm outspoken.
Anti establishment.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Battling the media.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
Yeah, but is there more to it than that?
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Well, Miley has been very open about his admiration
for Trump.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
He's called him his favorite president.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
He sees parallels in their approaches to politics.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
They're both willing to challenge the status quo.
Right, they Both willing tochallenge the status quo Right.
They both have a disdain forpolitical correctness.
They're both able to connectdirectly with voters.
Yeah, despite constant attacksfrom the media.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
He even draws a parallel to Sylvester Stallone.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
He does.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Who he met at a Trump event.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
He admires his resilience.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Yeah, he admires his ability to come back.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
His ability to bounce back.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
From setbacks?
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Yeah, so he sees Trump as a bit of a role model
yeah, okay, somebody who pavedthe way for his own brand, yes,
of outsider politics.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
And it's not just about personality or style.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Right.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
There's a clear alignment on policy issues.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Okay, like what.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Particularly when it comes to foreign policy and
economic nationalism.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
So Maile sees Trump as a kindred spirit, yes, a
fellow freedom fighter.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
A potential ally on the world stage.
Wow, yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Okay, this is all getting pretty geopolitical.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Maybe we should take a breather.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Yeah, let's take a step back.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Get back to the nitty gritty.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Back to Argentina.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Yeah, I mean we talked about the chainsaw
approach to shrinking thegovernment.
We haven't addressed.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Dollarization.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Dollarization.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Let's break it down.
What is dollarization?
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Essentially, it means replacing Argentina's currency,
the peso, with the US dollar.
It's a pretty radical idea.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
It is a radical idea.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
It has been tried in other countries with mixed
results.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
Okay, but why would a country do that?
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Well, for Maile, the benefits outweigh the risks.
Okay, he believes that byadopting the dollar, Argentina
could finally tame its chronicinflation and stabilize its
economy.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
The peso has a bit of a reputation.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
The peso has a long history of instability.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Let's just say yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
It's been plagued by hyperinflation for decades,
erding people's savings, makingit impossible to plan for the
future.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Maile argues that dollarization would provide a
much needed anchor.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
For the economy.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
OK.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Restoring confidence, attracting foreign investment.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
So it's like hitching your wagon to a stronger horse,
exactly, but it's not withoutits critics.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Right Opponents say that it would surrender.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Argentina's economic sovereignty.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
OK.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
Making it dependent on the US Federal Reserve.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Monetary policy.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
For monetary policy.
They also worry about thesocial costs, especially for the
poor who might struggle toadapt to a new currency, so it's
a new currency.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
So it's a big gamble.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
It is a gamble.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Yeah, and no guarantee of success.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
No guarantees.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
So where does he stand on it now that he's
actually in office?
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Well, he's made it clear that he's still a
proponent of dollarization Okay,but he's also acknowledged the
political realities.
He needs to build consensus notjust within his own party but
also among the broader publicand the opposition.
So he's taking a more pragmaticapproach, focusing on creating
(12:24):
conditions that would makedollarization more palatable and
feasible in the long run.
One of his strategies is topromote competition between
currencies.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Okay, so just let people.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Let Argentinians choose which currency they want
to use.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
So he's not forcing the dollar.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Not imposing it.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
But he's creating an environment.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
He's creating an environment.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Where it could become , where it could naturally
Dominant currency.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Become the dominant currency.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
He believes the market will decide.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
Interesting.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
And he's confident that the dollar will win.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Okay, this is all incredibly complex stuff and
it's clear there are no easyanswers.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
No easy answers.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
But one thing that has really struck me yeah.
Throughout this whole deep dive.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Is that Miley's not afraid?
He's bold To shake things up.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
He's not afraid to shake things up, but Miley's not
afraid, he's bold To shakethings up.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
He's not afraid to shake things up, I mean he's
willing to challengeconventional wisdom, absolutely.
Take risks.
Take risks Push for radicalchange.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Push for change.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Even if it means facing backlash.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
He doesn't care about the backlash.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
Yeah, he really doesn't.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
He's driven by his convictions, it seems like it,
and he's willing to do whateverit takes to implement them.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
But that conviction can be a double-edged sword.
It can be Right, it can lead togreat things.
It can, but it can also lead totunnel vision.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Yeah, and an unwillingness to compromise.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
So that's one of the biggest questions of his
presidency.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Can he balance his radical vision with the
pragmatic realities of governing?
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Yeah, can he build consensus?
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Can he compromise?
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Can he make compromises?
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Can he address the needs of all Argentinians?
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Even those who don't agree with him.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Even those who don't share his ideology.
It's a question.
It's a question.
Only time will answer.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
But one thing's for sure what's that?
Javier Millet is a force to bereckoned with.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
He is.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
And his experiment in Argentina will have ripple
effects far beyond its borders.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
This has been a really insightful deep dive.
Yeah, before we get too lost inthis grand sweep of history.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Right.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
It's important to remember.
It is that behind all thesepolicies?
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
All these economic theories.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
There's a human being the center of it all At the
center of it all.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
So in the next part of our deep dive, we'll explore
the personal side of Javier MeleRight His motivations, his
struggles and his hopes for thefuture.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
So we've talked about Mele, the economist, the
politician, thechainsaw-wielding reformer.
Yeah, but what about Mele, themanaw wielding?
Speaker 2 (14:55):
reformer.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Yeah, but yeah, what about my life?
A man.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Right the person.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Yeah, what makes him tick?
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
You know what keeps him going.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
One thing that's really apparent in all of his
interviews is his deep belief inthe power of ideas.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
OK.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
He's not just some pragmatist, you know, just
trying to fix a broken system.
Yeah, some pragmatist, you know, just trying to fix a broken
system.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Yeah, he's an ideologue?
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Yeah, he really believes that his ideas can
fundamentally transform society.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Yeah, it's like a missionary zeal almost.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
It is.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
A missionary zeal Like this, calling to spread the
gospel of freedom, yeah, nomatter the cost.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
At any cost.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Yeah, and I guess that conviction gives him the
strength.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
That unwavering belief.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
In his principles.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Yeah, to weather the storm.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
It's fuel for him.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Yeah, he's been called a madman.
Oh yeah, a radical.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
A dangerous populist.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
All kinds of things, but it doesn't seem to phase him
.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
It doesn't phase him, it's delicitax.
He knows who he is.
Yeah, he knows what he believes.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Because when you're so sure of your own
righteousness, you can just kindof brush off that criticism.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
But I'm sure there are moments of frustration,
feeling overwhelmed by the sheermagnitude of what he's trying
to do.
It's a huge undertaking totransform a country.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
He has admitted that it takes a toll he's talked
about the constant attacks, thebetrayals the pressure of being
in the spotlight, of being inthe spotlight.
It's easy to forget that theseguys are human.
They're human, even the most.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Yeah, they have emotions.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
Ideologically driven people.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
They get tired.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Yeah, they need to recharge.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
They need to recharge .
You know, and for Maile, one ofhis main sources of comfort and
support.
Yeah, it's his love for hisdogs.
Oh, that's nice.
I like that he is devoted tohis five english mastiffs wow,
that's a lot of dogs, a lot ofdogs.
Five english mastiffs he seesthem as the source of
unconditional love and loyaltyin a world that can often feel.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
It can be rough out there.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
Treacherous and fickle.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and dogs are great
at that.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
They're great for that.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
Yeah, just kind of grounding you.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Reminding you what's important.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
But it's not just about emotional support.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Right.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
He actually incorporates his dogs into his
political messaging oh,interesting, how so?
He uses them as a symbol okayof the values he's trying to
promote, like what?
Speaker 1 (17:22):
loyalty protection uh-huh it's a smart way to
connect with people.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
It is.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Yeah, on a deeper level.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Soften his image.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
Humanize him a little bit.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Yeah, make him more relatable.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Right, because it's like, hey, I might be this
radical economist.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Right.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
But I'm also a dog lover, just like you.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
I love my dogs Right, and it plays into that
anti-establishment persona.
Right, he's not, he's not yourtypical politician in a suit.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
No, he's not.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
He's a rock and roll economist.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Yeah, he's got that rock and roll thing going on.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
With a pack of mastiffs.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Didn't he front a band at some point?
Speaker 2 (17:56):
He did Back in the day he was called.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
Everest, everest.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
They played a mix of like rock and blues covers.
That's awesome.
He even said that if economicshadn't worked out, he might have
pursued music professionally.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Wow, that's cool.
I mean it just adds likeanother dimension to his
character Another layer.
Yeah, this artistic side thatyou don't often see in
politicians.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Not really.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Makes you wonder if those years on stage performing
helped shape his charisma.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
It's possible.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
And his ability to connect with people yeah.
Maybe that's where it comesfrom.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
It could be.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
And it speaks to his willingness to kind of break the
mold, to be different.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Defy expectations.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Not afraid to be different.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
Not afraid to be different.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
Yeah, and that's something that clearly resonates
.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
It does With a lot of Argentinians.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
You know they're tired of the same old, Same old
Political games political games.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Same old corruption, same old empty promises.
They're looking for someonewho's authentic yeah who speaks
their language who's?
Not afraid to shake things upand mile and mile.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Is that guy?
Speaker 2 (19:00):
he's that guy yeah yeah, he's not afraid to speak
his mind doesn't hold back evenif it means offending people.
Nope, he's not afraid tochallenge the status quo.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Not at all.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
Even if it means making some enemies.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
He's making plenty.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Yeah, but where does that fearlessness come from?
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Yeah, that's a good question.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
You know what makes him.
He's talked about this in a fewinterviews.
Okay, and it's actually quitemoving.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
He traces his commitment to freedom back to a
story that he encountered on avisit to Alcatraz.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Alcatraz, the prison.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Yeah, what does that have to do with freedom?
While he was there he learnedabout the story of Peter Fector.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Peter Fector.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
A young man who was shot and killed trying to escape
from East Germany.
That's tragic In 1962.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
And for my lie it was a profound moment.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
He realized that life without freedom is meaningless.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
And that true freedom is worth fighting for, even at
the risk of your own life.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Wow, that's a pretty powerful lesson.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
It is.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
To take from a tragic event.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Yeah, it gives you a sense of the depth of his
conviction, yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
You could see why this guy is so committed to his
cause.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
It's not just economic theories, for him.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
It's deeper than that .
Speaker 2 (20:16):
It's about something much deeper.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
It's about the human spirit.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
The desire for freedom, the right to live a
life of dignity andself-determination.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
It's actually pretty inspiring.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
It is.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
When you put it that way, yeah, but it also makes me
wonder.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
With all the pressure he's under.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
All the attacks.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Relentless.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
The challenges?
Yeah, does he ever getdiscouraged?
Speaker 2 (20:38):
I mean it would be human to feel discouraged at
times.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Yeah.
Does he ever feel like givingup?
Speaker 2 (20:44):
He seems to draw strength, okay From the
adversity.
From the setbacks From thesetbacks yeah.
He's got this incredibleresilience.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
He's a fighter.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
This ability to bounce back from defeat.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
He seems to thrive On the challenge.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
And it's not just about personal strength.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Right.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
It's also about his faith.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
He's a devout Catholic and he's talked about
how his faith gives him a senseof purpose.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
Okay, grounding, so it's like a combination of
things.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
It is.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Right.
It's this belief in his ideas.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
The ideas.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
Yeah, his love for his dogs, the dogs, his rock and
roll spirit.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
That girl in the roll .
Speaker 1 (21:26):
The resilience, the resilience.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
The faith.
Yeah, and his faith yeah, it'sa pretty potent mix it's a
potent mix it's what makes himyeah so compelling right whether
you agree with him or not.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
Right, this guy's a phenomenon he's a phenomenon and
his impact extends it does farbeyond Argentina's borders he's
become a symbol of hope for alot of people for a lot of
people around the world who aredisillusioned with how things
are and are looking for adifferent path.
(21:59):
He's shown that it's possibleto challenge the establishment
to challenge the establishmentto fight for what you believe in
to fight for what you believein and to win win and to win.
Even when the odds are stackedagainst you.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Even when the odds are stacked against you and
that's a message that resonates.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
It does Way beyond just politics.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Beyond politics, it's a message that speaks to the
human spirit.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
It's a message that speaks to the power of ideas.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
To the power of ideas .
Speaker 1 (22:26):
This enduring quest for freedom.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Quest for freedom.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
This has been a really interesting exploration
of Miley's world.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
His world.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
But in the final part of our deep dive.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
The final part.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
We're going to explore.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Yes, what.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
Miley's victory might mean.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
What it might mean For Argentina.
Latin America.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
Latin America and the world.
And the world.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Okay, so we've talked about Miley's policies.
You know his philosophy, evenhis dogs, Right.
But the big question is the bigquestion.
What does his presidencyactually mean for Argentina and
the world?
Speaker 1 (23:03):
I mean it's early.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Yeah, but we can observe a few things already,
Like what?
Well, first, Miley has shownthat radical change is possible
even in a country like Argentinawith its deeply entrenched
systems.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
He didn't waste any time.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
No, he went full chainsaw from day one.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
And that boldness combined with his communication
style and his ability to connect.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Yeah, to connect with voters' frustration.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Yeah, it's created this sense of momentum.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Right, like things are actually happening after
decades of just nothing.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Yeah, but that rapid pace of change is not without
its risks.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
It's not.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Right.
It can lead to unintendedconsequences.
It can Disrupt systems,alienate people Absolutely who
aren't on board.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
One of the biggest challenges he faces is balancing
that radical vision with thereality of governing.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Yeah, can he build consensus?
Can he compromise?
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Right?
Can he address the needs of allArgentinians?
Speaker 1 (24:00):
Even those who don't agree with him.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
Even those who don't agree with him.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Yeah, and it's all playing out on a global stage.
Oh, the world is watching.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
The world is watching to see what happens.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
To see if Argentina succeeds or fails.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Exactly, the stakes are high.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Yeah, if he succeeds, it could inspire other
countries it could To follow hislead.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Yeah To embrace free markets.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
To challenge the status quo.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Absolutely, but if it fails, yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
It could have the opposite effect.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
It could strengthen the hand of those who advocate
for more gradual change.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
More incremental approaches.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Either way.
Yeah, it's a fascinating casestudy.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
It is a fascinating case study.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
And the power of ideas.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
The challenges of leadership.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
This enduring human quest for freedom.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
And prosperity.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
This has been quite a journey.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
It has been a journey you know?
Speaker 1 (24:45):
exploring Miley's world.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
Exploring his world.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
But as we wrap up this deep dive, yeah.
What are some key takeaways?
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Well, I think, first and foremost, maile has shown
that bold, unconventionalleadership can capture the
imagination and inspire change.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Yeah, he's shown that you don't have to play by the
traditional rules.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Right, he's challenged the norms.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
And he's demonstrated the power.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Of clear, consistent messaging.
You know he's not your averagepolitician.
He's challenged the norms andhe's demonstrated the power of
clear, consistent messaging.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
You know, he's not your average politician.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
He's not.
He's got that charisma he does,he's got the wit that
unwavering belief in his ideasand those qualities, combined
with his willingness to takerisks and challenge the
establishment, have made him areally polarizing figure.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
People either love him or hate him.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
Yeah, but they can't ignore him.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
And that in itself is a testament.
It is To his impact.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
He's shaken things up .
Speaker 1 (25:39):
Yeah, he's forced people to confront some
uncomfortable truths.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
Yeah, and he's really started a debate.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
Yeah, about the future of Argentina.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
About the role of government.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
About the role of government in society.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
He's also shown the importance of connecting with
people on an emotional level.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
He's not just talking about economics.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
He's tapping into their hopes their fears, their
frustrations their frustrations.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
He's a master storyteller.
He is Using anecdotes humor.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Even his dogs.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
To make his message more relatable.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
To make it more engaging.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
And finally, he's reminded us that ideas matter.
They do, they have the power toshape the world.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
To inspire change, to challenge the status quo.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
So what do you think?
Is Maile a beacon of hope?
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
A dangerous radical or something in between.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
What do you?
Speaker 2 (26:28):
think We'd love to hear your thoughts.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
Keep exploring.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Keep learning and keep diving deep, viva la.
All right.
So today we are going to deepdive into the world of Javier
Mele.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Argentina's new president.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
This will be fun and he's not your average politician
.
Definitely not.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
This is a guy who campaigned with a chainsaw A
chainsaw Promising to slashthrough Argentina's bureaucracy.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
It's a striking image , for sure.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
It is a striking image.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
But it gets even more interesting when you learn that
Mele is a self-proclaimedanarcho-capitalist.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Yeah, that's where it gets a little tricky for me.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
So ideally no government.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Yeah.
So how does somebody whobelieves in abolishing the state
end up leading one?
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Right, you know how does that work.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
That's scratcher.
Luckily we have Mele's ownwords to guide us.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
OK, cool.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
We're using his interview on the Lex Fridman
podcast.
Right, so we're going straightto the source.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
And what's interesting is his path to this
pretty radical philosophy wasn'ta straight line.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
OK.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
He started out as a traditional economist
Interesting.
So what flipped the script?
Speaker 2 (01:01):
He actually credits reading an article by Murray
Rothbard, who's a major figurein the Austrian School of
Economics.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Up until that point he had been teaching Keynesian
economics Okay, but Rothbard'swork made him question
everything he thought he knewabout economics.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
So it was like a total light bulb moment.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
It was a light bulb moment.
Yeah, he describes it asfeeling like everything he had
been teaching was totally wrongwow he talks about Rothbard,
helping him to understand theinherent flaws in central
planning right, yeah andgovernment intervention.
Okay, and he really went deepon this, devouring the works of
(01:41):
other Austrian school thinkersLudwig von Mises, friedrich
Hayek.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
So he goes from mainstream economics to wanting
to like completely dismantle thestate.
But how does he justify beingpresident?
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Right.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
If he's an anarcho-capitalist.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Yeah, isn't that a contradiction?
Well, he actually addressesthis.
He makes a distinction betweenbeing an anarcho-capitalist,
someone who wants no state, andwhat he calls a menarchist,
which is how he describes hisapproach as president.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
So menarchist is.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Menarchist basically means believing in the absolute
minimal, the smallest governmentpossible.
So while the ideal might be nostate at all, in reality he's
focused on shrinking it.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
As much as possible.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
But I bet that doesn't sit well with a lot of
the hardcore anarchists.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Oh yeah, he's gotten some criticism.
He calls it the Nirvana fallacy.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
The Nirvana fallacy.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
This idea that if something's not perfect, it's
not worth doing at all.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Yeah, gotcha.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
And he gives a great analogy to explain this.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Hit me.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Okay, so picture a soccer stadium Right Packed with
fans.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
They're cheering their hearts out.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
They're creating this electric atmosphere, right, but
they're not actually moving theball on the field.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
Right, the players are the ones doing that.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Yeah, so it's the action that matters, not just
the cheering from the sidelines.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Yeah, it's like, okay , you can complain all you want.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
But if you're not actually out there, Exactly.
Making the changes.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
You're not contributing.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Then what are you doing?
Right, you know.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
And speaking of action, yeah, hit the ground
running.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Yeah, he did.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
When he took office.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Huge reform.
Massive rapid fire reform, Justboom boom.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Slashing ministries, cutting government jobs,
removing price controls,tackling corruption, especially
in social welfare programs.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Wow, that's a lot.
So what was the thinking behindthose?
Speaker 2 (03:40):
I mean you have to remember the state of Argentina.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Right.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
When he inherited it.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Yeah, it was a mess.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
It was a mess, it was a total economic crisis.
Hyperinflation.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Massive debt.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Uh-huh.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Widespread poverty.
Yeah, it was a dire situation.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
He felt he had to take drastic action.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
So it was like an economic triage, yeah, like.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Stabilize the patient .
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Then worry about long-term recovery.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
And the scale of his fiscal adjustment.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
It's unprecedented Right 15% reduction in
government spending relative toGDP.
Who even claims.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
It's the biggest fiscal adjustment in the history
of humanity.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Okay, well, that's a bold claim.
Yeah, I mean, with cuts thatbig, there have to be some
consequences.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
There were one of the most surprising outcomes.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Poverty actually increased.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Wait what.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Initially after he took office.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
How does that happen?
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Yeah, it's counterintuitive?
Hardly, but he argues that thisactually reveals the extent of
the problem he inherited he says, by removing price consoles and
subsidies that wereartificially propping up the
economy.
He exposed the true level ofpoverty.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
That's like ripping off a Band-Aid.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Exactly.
It's painful, but it allows fora more accurate diagnosis.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
You can actually see what's going on Exactly.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
He believes those interventions were creating a
false sense of security andultimately doing more harm than
good.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
So he had to get rid of them.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
He had to rip off the Band-Aid.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
But that must have been painful for a lot of people
.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
It was a tough sell.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Right he acknowledges that.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
But he insisted that it was necessary to achieve long
term stability and prosperity,and he points to the fact that
real wages and employment havestarted to recover since then.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
OK, so there are signs that things are going in
the right direction?
There are, but it's stillreally early.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Very early.
The political and social costsof these reforms are still very
much being debated.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
So this is all super fascinating.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Yeah, but We've just scratched the surface.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Mylai's economic reforms are just one piece, one
piece Of his radical agenda.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
He's also going after corruption.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Oh, yeah, tell me about that.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Huge.
We're talking dismantlingcorrupt welfare schemes,
tackling street blockades, whichhe sees as tools of extortion,
and he's even going after thehighest levels of power.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Yeah, I mean, one of his biggest achievements has to
be the conviction of formerPresident Cristina Fernandez de
Kirchner Huge On corruptioncharges.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
That's a big deal, it is.
Where does this anti-corruptioncrusade come from?
Well, is it just about fixing abroken system.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
I think it's safe to say that his views on corruption
are deeply tied to hislibertarian philosophy.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
OK.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Corruption, for him, is a symptom of a bloated,
overreaching government.
Ok, so less government equalsless government equals less
opportunity, less corruption.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Less government equals less opportunity, less
corruption.
Corruption, less corruption.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
That makes sense.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
It's a pretty straightforward equation In
theory, in theory, but it's notjust about the size.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
It's also about transparency and accountability.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
OK.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
He sees free speech.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
A free press as essential weapons Interesting In
this fight against corruption.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
And that's where his somewhat controversial
admiration for Elon Musk comesin.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
For Elon Musk.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
He views Musk as a champion of free speech Right,
particularly through hisacquisition of Twitter.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Now X Mylai believes that social media platforms are
crucial for bypassing what hesees as the corrupt and biased
mainstream media.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
So he's not just fighting corruption like in the
traditional sense, he's tryingto dismantle.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
He wants to dismantle the whole system.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
A whole system that allows corruption to thrive, the
whole system and this actuallyties into his broader concerns
about what he calls culturalMarxism.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Okay, this is where things get.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
This is where things get a little complicated.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
A little more complicated.
It's important to understandwhat he means.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Yeah, cultural Marxism by that.
It's one of those phrases getsthrown around a lot.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
It is.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
I'm not sure everybody really knows what it
means.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
It's a term that has been adopted by certain segments
of the right to describe whatthey see as a creeping leftist
influence on culture, education,the media.
For Miley, it represents athreat to traditional values and
individual freedom.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
So it's basically a catch-all.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
It's a catch-all.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
For ideas that he sees as antithetical to his
libertarian worldview Exactly.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
It's a major driving force behind his cultural agenda
.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Gotcha.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
He believes this cultural Marxism is being used
to undermine individualresponsibility, promote
dependency on the state andultimately erode freedom.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
So we've got, like this economic battle and a
cultural battle.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
It's a two pronged approach.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
OK.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
But before we get too deep into that, there's one
more piece of the puzzle.
Yeah, we need to address hisrelationship with Donald Trump.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
OK, the my lie Trump connection.
It's fascinating, it is I meanon the surface they seem like.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
Kindred spirits.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Kindred spirits, spirits, gingrich spirits right,
I'm outspoken.
Anti establishment.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Battling the media.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
Yeah, but is there more to it than that?
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Well, Miley has been very open about his admiration
for Trump.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
He's called him his favorite president.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
He sees parallels in their approaches to politics.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
They're both willing to challenge the status quo.
Right, they Both willing tochallenge the status quo Right.
They both have a disdain forpolitical correctness.
They're both able to connectdirectly with voters.
Yeah, despite constant attacksfrom the media.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
He even draws a parallel to Sylvester Stallone.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
He does.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Who he met at a Trump event.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
He admires his resilience.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Yeah, he admires his ability to come back.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
His ability to bounce back.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
From setbacks?
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Yeah, so he sees Trump as a bit of a role model
yeah, okay, somebody who pavedthe way for his own brand, yes,
of outsider politics.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
And it's not just about personality or style.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Right.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
There's a clear alignment on policy issues.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Okay, like what.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Particularly when it comes to foreign policy and
economic nationalism.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
So Maile sees Trump as a kindred spirit, yes, a
fellow freedom fighter.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
A potential ally on the world stage.
Wow, yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Okay, this is all getting pretty geopolitical.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Maybe we should take a breather.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Yeah, let's take a step back.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Get back to the nitty gritty.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Back to Argentina.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Yeah, I mean we talked about the chainsaw
approach to shrinking thegovernment.
We haven't addressed.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Dollarization.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Dollarization.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Let's break it down.
What is dollarization?
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Essentially, it means replacing Argentina's currency,
the peso, with the US dollar.
It's a pretty radical idea.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
It is a radical idea.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
It has been tried in other countries with mixed
results.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
Okay, but why would a country do that?
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Well, for Maile, the benefits outweigh the risks.
Okay, he believes that byadopting the dollar, Argentina
could finally tame its chronicinflation and stabilize its
economy.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
The peso has a bit of a reputation.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
The peso has a long history of instability.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Let's just say yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
It's been plagued by hyperinflation for decades,
erding people's savings, makingit impossible to plan for the
future.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Maile argues that dollarization would provide a
much needed anchor.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
For the economy.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
OK.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Restoring confidence, attracting foreign investment.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
So it's like hitching your wagon to a stronger horse,
exactly, but it's not withoutits critics.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Right Opponents say that it would surrender.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Argentina's economic sovereignty.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
OK.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
Making it dependent on the US Federal Reserve.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Monetary policy.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
For monetary policy.
They also worry about thesocial costs, especially for the
poor who might struggle toadapt to a new currency, so it's
a new currency.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
So it's a big gamble.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
It is a gamble.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Yeah, and no guarantee of success.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
No guarantees.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
So where does he stand on it now that he's
actually in office?
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Well, he's made it clear that he's still a
proponent of dollarization Okay,but he's also acknowledged the
political realities.
He needs to build consensus notjust within his own party but
also among the broader publicand the opposition.
So he's taking a more pragmaticapproach, focusing on creating
(12:24):
conditions that would makedollarization more palatable and
feasible in the long run.
One of his strategies is topromote competition between
currencies.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Okay, so just let people.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Let Argentinians choose which currency they want
to use.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
So he's not forcing the dollar.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Not imposing it.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
But he's creating an environment.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
He's creating an environment.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Where it could become , where it could naturally
Dominant currency.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Become the dominant currency.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
He believes the market will decide.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
Interesting.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
And he's confident that the dollar will win.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Okay, this is all incredibly complex stuff and
it's clear there are no easyanswers.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
No easy answers.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
But one thing that has really struck me yeah.
Throughout this whole deep dive.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Is that Miley's not afraid?
He's bold To shake things up.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
He's not afraid to shake things up, but Miley's not
afraid, he's bold To shakethings up.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
He's not afraid to shake things up, I mean he's
willing to challengeconventional wisdom, absolutely.
Take risks.
Take risks Push for radicalchange.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Push for change.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Even if it means facing backlash.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
He doesn't care about the backlash.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
Yeah, he really doesn't.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
He's driven by his convictions, it seems like it,
and he's willing to do whateverit takes to implement them.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
But that conviction can be a double-edged sword.
It can be Right, it can lead togreat things.
It can, but it can also lead totunnel vision.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Yeah, and an unwillingness to compromise.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
So that's one of the biggest questions of his
presidency.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Can he balance his radical vision with the
pragmatic realities of governing?
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Yeah, can he build consensus?
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Can he compromise?
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Can he make compromises?
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Can he address the needs of all Argentinians?
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Even those who don't agree with him.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Even those who don't share his ideology.
It's a question.
It's a question.
Only time will answer.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
But one thing's for sure what's that?
Javier Millet is a force to bereckoned with.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
He is.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
And his experiment in Argentina will have ripple
effects far beyond its borders.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
This has been a really insightful deep dive.
Yeah, before we get too lost inthis grand sweep of history.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Right.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
It's important to remember.
It is that behind all thesepolicies?
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
All these economic theories.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
There's a human being the center of it all At the
center of it all.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
So in the next part of our deep dive, we'll explore
the personal side of Javier MeleRight His motivations, his
struggles and his hopes for thefuture.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
So we've talked about Mele, the economist, the
politician, thechainsaw-wielding reformer.
Yeah, but what about Mele, themanaw wielding?
Speaker 2 (14:55):
reformer.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Yeah, but yeah, what about my life?
A man.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Right the person.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Yeah, what makes him tick?
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
You know what keeps him going.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
One thing that's really apparent in all of his
interviews is his deep belief inthe power of ideas.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
OK.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
He's not just some pragmatist, you know, just
trying to fix a broken system.
Yeah, some pragmatist, you know, just trying to fix a broken
system.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Yeah, he's an ideologue?
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Yeah, he really believes that his ideas can
fundamentally transform society.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Yeah, it's like a missionary zeal almost.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
It is.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
A missionary zeal Like this, calling to spread the
gospel of freedom, yeah, nomatter the cost.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
At any cost.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Yeah, and I guess that conviction gives him the
strength.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
That unwavering belief.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
In his principles.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Yeah, to weather the storm.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
It's fuel for him.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Yeah, he's been called a madman.
Oh yeah, a radical.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
A dangerous populist.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
All kinds of things, but it doesn't seem to phase him
.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
It doesn't phase him, it's delicitax.
He knows who he is.
Yeah, he knows what he believes.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Because when you're so sure of your own
righteousness, you can just kindof brush off that criticism.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
But I'm sure there are moments of frustration,
feeling overwhelmed by the sheermagnitude of what he's trying
to do.
It's a huge undertaking totransform a country.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
He has admitted that it takes a toll he's talked
about the constant attacks, thebetrayals the pressure of being
in the spotlight, of being inthe spotlight.
It's easy to forget that theseguys are human.
They're human, even the most.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Yeah, they have emotions.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
Ideologically driven people.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
They get tired.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Yeah, they need to recharge.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
They need to recharge .
You know, and for Maile, one ofhis main sources of comfort and
support.
Yeah, it's his love for hisdogs.
Oh, that's nice.
I like that he is devoted tohis five english mastiffs wow,
that's a lot of dogs, a lot ofdogs.
Five english mastiffs he seesthem as the source of
unconditional love and loyaltyin a world that can often feel.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
It can be rough out there.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
Treacherous and fickle.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and dogs are great
at that.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
They're great for that.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
Yeah, just kind of grounding you.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Reminding you what's important.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
But it's not just about emotional support.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Right.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
He actually incorporates his dogs into his
political messaging oh,interesting, how so?
He uses them as a symbol okayof the values he's trying to
promote, like what?
Speaker 1 (17:22):
loyalty protection uh-huh it's a smart way to
connect with people.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
It is.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Yeah, on a deeper level.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Soften his image.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
Humanize him a little bit.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Yeah, make him more relatable.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Right, because it's like, hey, I might be this
radical economist.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Right.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
But I'm also a dog lover, just like you.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
I love my dogs Right, and it plays into that
anti-establishment persona.
Right, he's not, he's not yourtypical politician in a suit.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
No, he's not.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
He's a rock and roll economist.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Yeah, he's got that rock and roll thing going on.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
With a pack of mastiffs.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Didn't he front a band at some point?
Speaker 2 (17:56):
He did Back in the day he was called.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
Everest, everest.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
They played a mix of like rock and blues covers.
That's awesome.
He even said that if economicshadn't worked out, he might have
pursued music professionally.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Wow, that's cool.
I mean it just adds likeanother dimension to his
character Another layer.
Yeah, this artistic side thatyou don't often see in
politicians.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Not really.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Makes you wonder if those years on stage performing
helped shape his charisma.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
It's possible.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
And his ability to connect with people yeah.
Maybe that's where it comesfrom.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
It could be.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
And it speaks to his willingness to kind of break the
mold, to be different.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Defy expectations.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Not afraid to be different.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
Not afraid to be different.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
Yeah, and that's something that clearly resonates
.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
It does With a lot of Argentinians.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
You know they're tired of the same old, Same old
Political games political games.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Same old corruption, same old empty promises.
They're looking for someonewho's authentic yeah who speaks
their language who's?
Not afraid to shake things upand mile and mile.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Is that guy?
Speaker 2 (19:00):
he's that guy yeah yeah, he's not afraid to speak
his mind doesn't hold back evenif it means offending people.
Nope, he's not afraid tochallenge the status quo.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Not at all.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
Even if it means making some enemies.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
He's making plenty.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Yeah, but where does that fearlessness come from?
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Yeah, that's a good question.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
You know what makes him.
He's talked about this in a fewinterviews.
Okay, and it's actually quitemoving.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
He traces his commitment to freedom back to a
story that he encountered on avisit to Alcatraz.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Alcatraz, the prison.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Yeah, what does that have to do with freedom?
While he was there he learnedabout the story of Peter Fector.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Peter Fector.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
A young man who was shot and killed trying to escape
from East Germany.
That's tragic In 1962.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
And for my lie it was a profound moment.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
He realized that life without freedom is meaningless.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
And that true freedom is worth fighting for, even at
the risk of your own life.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Wow, that's a pretty powerful lesson.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
It is.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
To take from a tragic event.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Yeah, it gives you a sense of the depth of his
conviction, yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
You could see why this guy is so committed to his
cause.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
It's not just economic theories, for him.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
It's deeper than that .
Speaker 2 (20:16):
It's about something much deeper.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
It's about the human spirit.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
The desire for freedom, the right to live a
life of dignity andself-determination.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
It's actually pretty inspiring.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
It is.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
When you put it that way, yeah, but it also makes me
wonder.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
With all the pressure he's under.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
All the attacks.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Relentless.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
The challenges?
Yeah, does he ever getdiscouraged?
Speaker 2 (20:38):
I mean it would be human to feel discouraged at
times.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Yeah.
Does he ever feel like givingup?
Speaker 2 (20:44):
He seems to draw strength, okay From the
adversity.
From the setbacks From thesetbacks yeah.
He's got this incredibleresilience.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
He's a fighter.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
This ability to bounce back from defeat.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
He seems to thrive On the challenge.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
And it's not just about personal strength.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Right.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
It's also about his faith.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
He's a devout Catholic and he's talked about
how his faith gives him a senseof purpose.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
Okay, grounding, so it's like a combination of
things.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
It is.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Right.
It's this belief in his ideas.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
The ideas.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
Yeah, his love for his dogs, the dogs, his rock and
roll spirit.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
That girl in the roll .
Speaker 1 (21:26):
The resilience, the resilience.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
The faith.
Yeah, and his faith yeah, it'sa pretty potent mix it's a
potent mix it's what makes himyeah so compelling right whether
you agree with him or not.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
Right, this guy's a phenomenon he's a phenomenon and
his impact extends it does farbeyond Argentina's borders he's
become a symbol of hope for alot of people for a lot of
people around the world who aredisillusioned with how things
are and are looking for adifferent path.
(21:59):
He's shown that it's possibleto challenge the establishment
to challenge the establishmentto fight for what you believe in
to fight for what you believein and to win win and to win.
Even when the odds are stackedagainst you.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Even when the odds are stacked against you and
that's a message that resonates.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
It does Way beyond just politics.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Beyond politics, it's a message that speaks to the
human spirit.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
It's a message that speaks to the power of ideas.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
To the power of ideas .
Speaker 1 (22:26):
This enduring quest for freedom.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Quest for freedom.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
This has been a really interesting exploration
of Miley's world.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
His world.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
But in the final part of our deep dive.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
The final part.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
We're going to explore.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Yes, what.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
Miley's victory might mean.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
What it might mean For Argentina.
Latin America.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
Latin America and the world.
And the world.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Okay, so we've talked about Miley's policies.
You know his philosophy, evenhis dogs, Right.
But the big question is the bigquestion.
What does his presidencyactually mean for Argentina and
the world?
Speaker 1 (23:03):
I mean it's early.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Yeah, but we can observe a few things already,
Like what?
Well, first, Miley has shownthat radical change is possible
even in a country like Argentinawith its deeply entrenched
systems.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
He didn't waste any time.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
No, he went full chainsaw from day one.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
And that boldness combined with his communication
style and his ability to connect.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Yeah, to connect with voters' frustration.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Yeah, it's created this sense of momentum.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Right, like things are actually happening after
decades of just nothing.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Yeah, but that rapid pace of change is not without
its risks.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
It's not.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Right.
It can lead to unintendedconsequences.
It can Disrupt systems,alienate people Absolutely who
aren't on board.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
One of the biggest challenges he faces is balancing
that radical vision with thereality of governing.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Yeah, can he build consensus?
Can he compromise?
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Right?
Can he address the needs of allArgentinians?
Speaker 1 (24:00):
Even those who don't agree with him.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
Even those who don't agree with him.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Yeah, and it's all playing out on a global stage.
Oh, the world is watching.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
The world is watching to see what happens.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
To see if Argentina succeeds or fails.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Exactly, the stakes are high.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Yeah, if he succeeds, it could inspire other
countries it could To follow hislead.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Yeah To embrace free markets.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
To challenge the status quo.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Absolutely, but if it fails, yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
It could have the opposite effect.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
It could strengthen the hand of those who advocate
for more gradual change.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
More incremental approaches.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Either way.
Yeah, it's a fascinating casestudy.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
It is a fascinating case study.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
And the power of ideas.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
The challenges of leadership.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
This enduring human quest for freedom.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
And prosperity.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
This has been quite a journey.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
It has been a journey you know?
Speaker 1 (24:45):
exploring Miley's world.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
Exploring his world.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
But as we wrap up this deep dive, yeah.
What are some key takeaways?
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Well, I think, first and foremost, maile has shown
that bold, unconventionalleadership can capture the
imagination and inspire change.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Yeah, he's shown that you don't have to play by the
traditional rules.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Right, he's challenged the norms.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
And he's demonstrated the power.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Of clear, consistent messaging.
You know he's not your averagepolitician.
He's challenged the norms andhe's demonstrated the power of
clear, consistent messaging.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
You know, he's not your average politician.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
He's not.
He's got that charisma he does,he's got the wit that
unwavering belief in his ideasand those qualities, combined
with his willingness to takerisks and challenge the
establishment, have made him areally polarizing figure.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
People either love him or hate him.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
Yeah, but they can't ignore him.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
And that in itself is a testament.
It is To his impact.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
He's shaken things up .
Speaker 1 (25:39):
Yeah, he's forced people to confront some
uncomfortable truths.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
Yeah, and he's really started a debate.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
Yeah, about the future of Argentina.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
About the role of government.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
About the role of government in society.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
He's also shown the importance of connecting with
people on an emotional level.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
He's not just talking about economics.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
He's tapping into their hopes their fears, their
frustrations their frustrations.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
He's a master storyteller.
He is Using anecdotes humor.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Even his dogs.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
To make his message more relatable.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
To make it more engaging.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
And finally, he's reminded us that ideas matter.
They do, they have the power toshape the world.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
To inspire change, to challenge the status quo.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
So what do you think?
Is Maile a beacon of hope?
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
A dangerous radical or something in between.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
What do you?
Speaker 2 (26:28):
think We'd love to hear your thoughts.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
Keep exploring.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Keep learning and keep diving deep, viva la.
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