#56 - They All Learn - (Silas Lindenstein & Carlos Kareem Windham) - #NotAboutUpod

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Conversation. OK, ladies and gentlemen,
welcome to another fine fantastic.
What soon to be one of these episodes that's probably going
to get me banned from any kind of Airways, but nonetheless,
welcome to another episode of not about you.
My name is Jamal Harrington. Hi and with me as usual are my

(00:20):
Co host Romeo Nash and his lovely his lovely wife Marianne
Riley. As we are on so many platforms
pick one we're probably on it. However you are listening to us.
Thank you for making us part of your day and or night.
And I mean we have a great show such a great show.

(00:41):
Like I said this one either willget me banned from Airways or we
went a webby who knows. We have a great great 2 guests,
2 great guests. One of them it, it, you know,
not double booked. Not a mistake.
I'm very, I have the very, very great pleasure of introducing

(01:05):
these guys. Both of them are very funny
comedians who we've, who I've worked with, we've all worked
with from time to time. The 1st guest is a very funny
Portland comic who I've met at the Portland Black Northwest
Black Comedy Festival a few years ago.
And the gentleman's name is Carlos Windham.

(01:28):
How you doing, Mr. Carlos? I am doing very well that that
that slid very quickly into all sorts of male gendered talk.
That was great. That was amazing first.
Let's introduce Silas 1st and wecan bring Jamal the task, OK?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll get there.
We'll get there. Yeah, we'll come.

(01:49):
We're circling right back to that because I caught both of
that. I caught all that too.
So I was like just. Wild.
We're gonna do it. We're gonna do it.
Literally just had this conversation I'll take over for
a second if you don't mind our next guest that let me introduce
Silas Lindenstein from Seattle. Well, Seattle Pacific Northwest
comic. I've worked with Silas for many

(02:10):
a years. We've we've known each other.
We've actually had him on the podcast a few times before.
But let's so right back to Carlos.
They have Carlos. This is your.
First time being with us, correct?
This is yes it is. And and I want to say, Carlos,
you have the distinct honor or should I say we have the the
distinct shame of you being our first day them on guests on the

(02:34):
on the podcast. OK.
Oh. Well, look at that and.
I have to say before. You continue before you
continue. I've been trying to get someone.
Oh, I know, I know. No, I know, I know.
It has been like a scheduling conflict for a while.
So that's it is one of those things that it's not that we

(02:56):
haven't invited. We have had a lot of different
people that we've invited and it's like just scheduling
conflict sometimes with what part of it is because we're from
coast to coast. So Jamal is in New York.
What time is it in New York? It's like 3 hours ahead of us.
It's like 9935 or something likethat, yeah.

(03:16):
God bless you, Jamal. I don't know how you do this
week after week because we don'tget done and wrap it up here
until usually about midnight 1:00.
Wait, how long is this podcast? Jesus.
What's? Going on now.
It is time. All right, OK, all.
Right. OK.
So I know they're all like, hey,we didn't sign up for the.
Hurricane show as well. What's happening?

(03:39):
I can, I can easily answer that question when I know that I'm
doing this podcast. It's either drugs or lots of
coffee at 2:00 PM. So I I definitely make sure that
I'm mentally prepared for this. As you have to be.
So it's one of those things thatit is it, it definitely takes a

(04:00):
a lot of of prep to do this. But it's also sometimes they can
be very difficult for us to get our guests that like right now
currently Carlos and and says we're all in the same time zone,
but there's times that we have guests in the Midwest, we have
guests over on the East Coast. So trying to schedule all these

(04:21):
things can be really difficult. Yeah.
So. Our most trying one was when we
were. At sea.
Oh my God, yeah. When we.
Were That was freaking awesome. We.
Were on our cruise and we were in Tahiti and trying to do a
podcast from Tahiti that was like, so that scheduling raised
because we didn't even know whattime zone we were in.

(04:42):
We didn't even know what time it.
Was plus of all books like 3 months in advance so yeah.
Yeah. And then that can make, you
know, like we don't we we cross our fingers and toes and hope
that in three months we'll be available.
Our guests will still be available, but you never know.
I. Mean I gave I gave up refereeing

(05:03):
11 year olds in 20° temperature for this Jamal, just so you
know. Yeah, this Silas.
You're welcome. This is this is the second time
I've actually, it's weirdly enough, I've actually asked
Silas for his services and he was like, oh, I'm, I'm, I'm
reffing a soccer game. And in my mind, I'm like, dude,

(05:23):
well, no one's gonna remember that I was.
Coaching. I was coaching.
They will remember being coaching.
OK, now. I gave up reffing tonight
because who gives a crap? They'll just yell at me anyway.
I was. Gonna say reffing though.
Do they they pay you for that ordo you have to volunteer?
Yeah, I mean, it's pay. No, I'm not.
No, no one will volunteer to ref.

(05:43):
Oh my God, that's an unforgivingthing to be doing right now with
these. Yeah.
No, I refereed last night so that I I I'll get my refing in
for the week for sure. I got your abuse already.
It's nice to it's nice being a grown ass man doing it because I

(06:05):
don't have a problem telling, you know, a a loud parent like,
well, you you can go, you know, like you can just like they'll
they get used to the kids that are repping and they're yeah, I
don't especially I don't think there's a lot of I don't think
there's another stand up former stand up whatever referee around

(06:28):
because I will make jokes and they're not used to that.
Right. Nice.
Like I run by the parents as they're like complaining and I
like start singing. That's not the rule.
That's not the rule. Yeah, poor parents are horrible.

(06:50):
I've been to like too many different games when my kids
were little, when my sons were coming up through all that
stuff, and man, parents are assholes.
So are kids, though kids are the.
Fucking worst. Yeah, that's, well, I don't
know. I don't know kids nowadays.
Kids are the. Fucking worst they kids are,
they start out little shits and they just become bigger shits.

(07:13):
That's it. Yeah.
So let's let's circle back to Carlos, though we OK, we still
got to berate Jamal, so let's come back to Carlos.
He's been waiting. Like he thought he knows better.
He knows I'm not going to like, straight up forget about it.
I got to circle back around. Right, no off the hooks.
No off the hooks. Yeah.

(07:35):
So I am a 2 spirit. I am a black Pueblo and learning
mostly through the the the understanding of language,
right. And thank God for the for the
kids because Buck, we in Gen. X were without any kind of

(08:00):
guidance. You know, it was very easy.
You're a theater kid was kind ofwhat the definition was back in
the day. So learning and you know, I
lived on the rez for a little bit and then went back through
my own history with therapist and with my child and was like,

(08:25):
oh, oh, wait a minute. OK, All right, so these are not
boy behaviors. These things I'm doing.
I've been living. This is not just how every dude
is living. What do you mean?
We get like, you don't don't kiss your friends on the mouth.
What's going on? Why?
And learning that that was not what the heterosexuals are doing

(08:49):
was like, oh, OK, all right. I.
Last time I tried to kiss Jamal,he did not appreciate it.
Well, that's because you. That's because you bit my lip.
That's why too. Wet.
What did you, Carlos, did you say Black Pueblo?
I did. I hadn't.

(09:10):
I hadn't heard that term yet. I did, yeah.
Pueblo Pueblo native from New Mexico and black on my father's
side. He is from Harlem, my mother's
from New Mexico, and I was born.Web.

(09:34):
That's a tongue twister there. Black Pueblo, Is that like, is
that tribal? Yeah, as a.
Native Pueblo is Pueblo is I. I am not giving up my black
identity for being Native. I am not, I'm not that willing
to forsake how I grew up in any in any aspect that's really.

(09:57):
Interesting because Carlos you have a lot in common with RR.
Was was raised in Chicago, but he is more native than he is
black and I. Don't.
I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't practice our I don't
productive practice the traditions or the OR the

(10:20):
culture. So.
You were raised. I was raised black, so I embrace
my blackness so. Yeah, yeah.
I mean, that's what it comes down to really, right.
Like is I, I definitely was raised black and being raised in
the culture was AMC for a numberof years, you know, and it

(10:42):
really was the tension that I recognized in myself that, you
know, much like the tension withmy gender.
That was just like, OK, I don't understand where what I
experienced is supposed to actually exist, given the very

(11:05):
limited structures that we're, you know, that we're given,
right? Like limited choices that we're
given. And especially as as somebody
who is perceived given the depthof my voice, given, you know,
that kind of thing as a black dude by most people, right?

(11:26):
And then having my own experiences with my mother, my
own experiences in New Mexico and having grown up in a in a
household where my father was, you know, I was surrounded by my
black uncles from Saint Louis to, you know, my father's own
family to. So yeah, yeah.

(11:48):
No, I, I definitely understand. What how How did you find out
your your your own heritage? Oh I I know mine from from jump.
My, my, my father's mother is 100% native and my father is
half, but my mother is my motheris black and native also.

(12:12):
So OK, I'm like 3/4. I'm more native than I am black.
But I was always raised in the projects of Chicago in a black
house where we didn't celebrate any of those traditions.
But when I went to visit with myfather's mother, my grandmother
on my father's side, I went overthere.

(12:33):
I've always seen her with this long jet black beautiful hair.
It was all the way down past herass and it was and her skin was
always this dark red purple, this dark purple reddish color,
very dark. And so and with me, I was always

(12:55):
I was always black. But in the sun when it gets real
hot out, I turn red. I don't turn, I don't get
darker. I get, I get red, I get a deep
red color. And I, I, my mom, she pressed my

(13:15):
hair one time. I never forget it.
She pressed my hair one time as,and I was probably, I don't
know, 9 or 10 and she pressed myhair and it was, it went, my
hair was so long at the time because I had a big Afro when I
was a kid and it went, she pressed my hair and it went down

(13:36):
right to my ass and I look like a little Indian girl.
I look like a little Indian girl.
And I was like, wow, I'm like, damn, my hair is long as hell,
you know, and, but they, they, they always said, well, it's the
Indian and you got a lot of Indian in your, in your, in
your, in you because your grandmother is 100% in your

(14:00):
dad's half. But my mom was also half.
I didn't realize that until I got a little bit older.
And so my dad's mother, my aunt,I mean my dad's sister, she was
always advocating for me to get my native papers.

(14:22):
And, and you know, she's like, you need to go here because she
does that. And I'm like, no, I said, I
don't practice none of that. And she's like, no, but you'll
have more. You'll have certain rights and
you'll have the other, but I don't practice that.
I don't feel like I'm entitled to that because I don't practice
any of that. And they were like, what do?
You mean it's It's still your ancestry though, you know.

(14:43):
You're not getting reparations though.
You might as well get something.But it's not even just that
though. It's just that it helps the
whole tribe because the more they get counted, those numbers
matter. Those numbers really matter
because by being able to show that you have those numbers,
that's really important to the tribe.
That's why they were trying to get you to get registered.

(15:05):
Well. You know, and, and The thing is
though, is of the two of us, I have way more native upbringing
than you do. Like.
Oh, no, I guarantee I do. I have way more.
I was adopted by a Sue medicine man.
I have way more. Yeah, it was cool.
It was, oh, he was, it was amazing.
It was amazing. So him and his wife adopted us

(15:27):
and and so I was like they're they're little niece.
And so it was. It was wild.
My mother always insisted that our like we had native in our
history, like, and I never, I did not understand where she's
getting this because I'm like, based off of what?

(15:48):
And she just kept saying it. And so when I did the
ancestry.com test, I said it to her and she's like, what?
But it doesn't say Native. And I'm like, yeah, Mom, because
you made that up. Not native at all.
What are you talking about it? Was because you had good hair.

(16:10):
Oh, look at his. Hair he did not made it.
That's. My Italian so oh.
Yeah, that, that's definitely. You can see the Italian in.
The it's funny, like I'm I was raised.
I was raised that I was black, like much blacker than I look.
I didn't. I did not even know that I did

(16:32):
not look as black as I thought Idid until college when people
started asking me if I was like Persian and I'm like what?
What the hell are you talking? About it was.
Before 911, so it wasn't a big deal, but it was it was.
I just started all these things started happening and like, and

(16:53):
I started realizing like, I don't think I'm black.
What is this? What's going on?
But when I was with my mom, nobody ever questioned it
because she was clearly black and that was that.
We looked enough alike that. But once I separated from her, I
didn't realize. And my dad, even though he, my
dad's white Italian, my mom, my dad is half Italian and my mom

(17:16):
is half Italian. So technically I am more
Italian. But you know, we, we don't, we
didn't practice. I mean, we ate a lot of pasta,
but that's not. Just an.
Italian like. Mind your mind, pasta.
It's not just that I love Italy.Like that my mom's side of the

(17:38):
family had a there was very Italian, very I.
Freaking love Italy. Love.
It, love it, love it. So think about more Italian.
But my dad, though he's white, he because he was he like
overcompensated being a white hippie.
He was like, you need to know you're black, like you're gonna
get treated different and like that.
I am not making this up. He made me watch Roots when I

(18:02):
was in fifth grade. But but but but he wanted me to
know the daddy. Out there and not let people try
to tell me there was like he, man, my dad actually knew what
was coming. Like he understood.
He knew where America was going.No.
I don't know the past and he didnot want that to happen to me,
but and I didn't realize how messed up that was until later

(18:25):
when I was like, Oh my God, you you guys didn't have to watch
this like. What I don't think I made my.
Daughter watch it. I made my daughter watch it
because I know. How old I?
Know that when Roots came out, how much of an impact it had and
after it came out, they would only show it like once a year.
Yeah, if that. And it was, it was always Black

(18:48):
History Month. And then they started taking all
of black history out of schools.They stopped teaching them
anything about black history. You start hearing things about
Doctor King and that was it. You didn't hear nothing about
anybody else. You heard you heard you had
those those cue cards that was on the walls.
They talked about Doctor King and Harriet Tubman and and six

(19:13):
to seven other different, different black historians.
But if you wanted any of your children to learn any black
history, that was one of the first things that you did as a
parent. You told you made your kids
watch Roots and I made my. How old were you?
How old was she? When, when she watched it, I

(19:33):
think she was 12. I mean, I'm watching 1213
somewhere, right? Right around.
Here. Yeah, that's a sensible age.
Yeah. Do you 5th?
5th grade is not very cool. Yeah, I'm not.
I mean, to be honest with you, II remember watching Roots in
Texas when I was in the 6th grade and I don't even know what

(19:54):
I was watching, to be honest with you.
I'm like, why am I watching this?
What? This three day long saga about
slavery. I I made my daughter watch when
the pandemic started. We were doing A at home
education in middle school. I'm like, OK, you're going to
watch 13 this documentary about the about the prison system that

(20:21):
blue. She couldn't believe I was had
her watch that and she but but man, that set her up for later.
Like as she was talking to me, she was way ahead of everybody
in high school. About 13 is a bit about the 13th
Amendment, essentially the founding of the 13th Amendment,
which freed slaves but also created a prison slave system at

(20:47):
the same time. Yeah, the prison industrial
complex, Malchia Cyril was one of the main folks who was
interviewed in that and and theyare a an activist in the Bay
Area. I had the privilege of working
with alongside them for a numberof years when I lived there.

(21:11):
So what did you? Do That was a great documentary.
Oh yeah, it's fantastic. What did you do with them?
I, I was trying to figure out what to call what I did for some
time. And eventually they were just
like, you got to be a cultural agent for, for, you know, the
movement Oakland, the, the politics woven in very deeply

(21:37):
and very differently than anywhere I've ever lived, right?
Like in, in, in Denver, the politics are just as deep and
they're very different. It's very reactionary, right?
It's very like, OK, the cops didthis.
We got to do that. They're going to March for
Columbus days. We got to go out.

(21:57):
They're going to show up at MLK days.
So we got to defend it right in the Bay.
You know, you're talking about the home of Panthers.
You're talking about, you know, I, I lived around the corner
from where Huey used to live. And everybody who is in the

(22:18):
movement, who's from there is related to somebody who is from
there, right? So Malkia grew up as a as a baby
cub and you know, I, I knew Elaine Brown like it's there's a
reason that it was called the town for some time.

(22:39):
Like if you, if you lived there long enough and you're in the
movement or you're in the, the, the, at that time I was mostly
in hip hop. You're going to end up knowing
everybody else who was kind of in it.
If, if you, you know, if you're about your shit, if, if, if
you're really about the movement, you'll, you'll meet

(22:59):
folks. And so we had taken the streets
and disrupted court movements and organized with and for the
people for some time. Yeah, it was good, good stuff.
They they are one of the brighter people who I've had the
the the opportunity and good fortune to know.

(23:23):
So where are you from Carlos? Because you, you mentioned
Denver and the Bay Area. So you've kind of you've, you've
migrated a few places. I'm not that young, and I was
born in Boulder, Co, and when I was born there, there certainly

(23:48):
was nothing like what is happening there
contemporaneously that was bringing black folks to that
city. That was not at all part of my
experience. I left there for college very

(24:09):
briefly and ended up in Indiana.And that was not a place I
needed to be. So I left Richmond, went back to
CU Boulder, graduated from there, went immediately to
Oakland. It was a kind of a, a give and

(24:31):
take between am I going to Oakland or Brooklyn?
And it was based on the production of music that was
coming out at that time. And I ended up in Oakland and I
had a wonderful and you know, for an independent artist, very
successful career for a very long time when that ended, then

(24:59):
went back to Boulder for a shorttime, divorced and my child was
coming up to Portland. And so that's all, all the
motivation I needed. I was like, OK, great.
Well, I guess I'm moving to Portland, and I was told by some
folks like, no, I think you can figure it out from there.

(25:20):
So I've been trying to do that, you know?
Nice. How are you like?
Where, where Where y'all? Where y'all folks at?
We live in, we live in Washington state.
Yeah, over here. Right out.
Oh. OK.
Oh. Yeah.
So we're just up. We're just up the road from you
and then a little further up north is Silas.
Silas, what time? You said Washington state like

(25:43):
that's like, like we're a. Well, we've got to make sure
because every time we say Washington, they think BC.
So we have to say, but I read like.
It's a big stick. Are you in Spokane or try
cities? Where I said we were Sumner.
It's just that. Sumner, I didn't hear that.
Yeah, Sumner WA Sumner. Is that where the vampires?

(26:07):
Are it's right next to you out what's?
That. So is that where the vampires
are? Yes.
No, that's further up. That's forks.
Forks. Yeah, that's forks.
That's forks where the vampires are.
I'm in North Seattle basically. Are the dracolas there too?

(26:28):
You know, there's a lot of people who have not seen
sunlight in a long time, so it'svery possible.
Yeah, there's also mermaids out here.
So you got to understand where you, you got to understand where
you are so. Because that's over in Bremerton
area now. So if you if you haven't watched
TV or if you haven't watched movies, there's always movies
about vampires living near out in the Forks area and raining,

(26:56):
raining in and and and the moviesirens, the TV series Sirens.
It's about mermaids and they actually film that over near
Bremerton and up and through thedo the Kitsap area.
Does that take place? Does it take place in Washington
like? This period, yes, if you watch,
if you watch sirens, they actually talk about it.

(27:19):
I was like, and they was like, yeah, they found it.
They found a body over and over in Kitsap.
Damn. And I'm like, wait a minute,
Kitsap. Then they say Kissap and they're
like, yeah, he was in Bremerton.I'm like, oh shit, they say
Bremerton. And so you actually, and not
because I travel that way all the time, a lot of the roadways
where you see them driving, I'm like, oh shit, I know exactly
where that is. So at the I used to have that

(27:45):
experience when I was watching Mork and Mindy, I'd be like, I'd
be like, hold up, I know where you at.
I know where it's supposed to be.
That's not you're not there. What is that?
When in Colorado? Yeah, that was in Boulder.
Yeah, that was in Boulder, Co. Yeah.

(28:06):
Yeah, whenever I walk through Midtown Manhattan, I recognize
almost every scene from Law and Order SVU, the regular Law and
Order and Criminal Intent. So I'm like, I'm pretty sure
something was filmed here, a murder scene, otherwise right
here, as a matter of fact, do. You really live in New York

(28:29):
because every time on Facebook you're in a different city.
That's because I'm I, I do comedy in different cities like
but country. Like what?
Yeah, I'm trying to run. Yeah, I'm not.
I mean, I'm on the road a lot doing that, but I live in
Brooklyn, but that's part of, that's part of the five

(28:50):
boroughs. I live near Prospect Park, Crown
Heights, Leopards Gardens area. OK.
I'm like on the border of Lefferts Gardens in Crown
Heights, but I am roughly 4 verylong blocks away from Prospect
Park. OK, Yeah, My brother was over in
that area for a while. He's in, I believe he was in

(29:15):
Manhattan for a while. I don't know if he's back over
in the Bronx now. I I had stayed in Manhattan up
near Harlem when I went to Barnard for a short time.
OK, Yeah, yeah, I've got, yeah. My father's from New York, as I
said. So family out there.

(29:36):
Yeah. Yeah, I have a huge Trinidad
Caribbean family out here, but we're all for the most part in
Brooklyn. So I, you know, I first when we
came to, when I, when we came here, started off in East New
York and that even after 40 years, it's still a shithole.

(29:56):
So I have no reason to ever go visit East New York.
But I, yeah, I live. I don't live.
I live about maybe half hour train ride away from the first
stop in the city. Yeah.
I you know all I know about New York is the train systems are so

(30:20):
fucking confusing and the peoplein the subways don't help for
shit. Not at all.
We was fucking stuck there for fucking three weeks.
We was lost. We was lost in the fucking train
in this train station for like 3-4 hours and he's, he's.
Handicapped SO. And I'm walking and I'm.
Walking and. Yes.
Oh, I was mad as hell because I asked the guy say yo man, how

(30:41):
the fuck do I get out of here? And he goes, go down here, go up
these stairs. Then when you come up those
stairs, make a left, go all the way down to the end.
And then you go come and and andyou make a right.
And I go down there and I do exactly tell me and I'm at
another fucking train station. I'm like, what the fuck?
And and it went on for hours. And it was so funny.

(31:04):
We were. Like circling right where we go.
We're like, we've already been here.
Because they've seen me come down the stairs and this
motherfucking out there laughingat me, the same dude that sent
me and I'm like, did he? Did we just go in the fucking?
They hate of tours, right? So, and at the time that was, we
didn't know it at the time, but we had COVID, so we were sick of

(31:25):
shit. Yeah.
And Oh no. Because I never had COVID till I
went to New York. We survived all that shit.
We went to COVID. I mean, went to New York and got
sick. I'm like, man, that.
Pissed. Us off, yeah, we didn't know,
but actually we didn't find out till we got home that we had.
Yeah, we were sick and we're like, what the hell, why are we
still sick? Oh, you were super spreaders?

(31:48):
Oh yeah. Hell yeah.
Oh yeah, I was like. The plane all over the subway.
We coughed on that guy a couple of times.
After he was laughing at us, we went back and.
I didn't cough on nobody. I wouldn't do that to nobody.
In our mind, we did. In my mind I was fucking him up,
but I look. We were too beat up and too
crippled to go over and cough onhim because that was another

(32:10):
half a block walk. I know.
I'm like fuck it, we are not that motivated.
I was like, New York is not, is not a, a place for somebody.
That's, that's, that's, that's fucking mobility challenge.
I mean, I could, I could walk a couple of blocks, but I got bad
knees and a bad back. So after two blocks I'm, I was
like, man, fuck this. I ain't the rest.

(32:30):
So he earned his. His.
And the way that they describe block in New York is very, very
generous. That's why.
That's why when I like again I live 4 long blocks away from
Prospect Park, it takes me roughly 30 and I I walk there
every morning because I like to catch that train instead of the

(32:51):
one that's right around the corner from where I live because
I'm almost guaranteed a seat. There is no homeless people
moving in their shit because winter is coming and it's in a
nicer neighborhood. So I catch that train and the
transfer is way better because Ionly have to go across the
platform from an express train to a local train going into

(33:13):
Queens when I go into work. So it's a 13 minute walk roughly
a mile away from where I live. And it's a yeah, it, it, it's a
nice little walk as I walk through the neighborhoods of
brownstones that really, you know, nice brownstones.
And when I crossover to the Manhattan Bridge, I get to see

(33:33):
the sunrise. So it's a very nice, it's a very
lovely commute. And it kind of, you know, makes
my morning whenever I go into work.
So I do that. I, I mean, I've lived here off
and on for, gosh, probably goingon 30, almost 30 years.

(33:54):
So I kind of feel like I have the best of both worlds, whether
I and I walk a lot. Mind you, I was just in
Baltimore with a friend of mine catching a game, and we walked
all over Baltimore. We didn't take public
transportation. We didn't Uber.
From the moment we got off at the bus station that Sunday, we

(34:14):
walked all over Baltimore, staying within the limits of
where our friends told us to stay, not to venture out, you
know, to West Baltimore or E Baltimore, anything like that.
We stayed in the downtown area in the Inner Harbor, and we
walked like 8 miles. And I was telling my friend when
we was on the ride back, I was like, dude, we did 8 miles

(34:36):
today. If you were a chick, you're, you
probably would have been a pain in my ass, you know, because you
wouldn't be used to all this walking.
And the dude was like, dude, I walk all the time.
I'm so used to it. So it's just like, but yeah,
that's all I do when I'm in New York.
I'm always, I, I, I feel like I'm a tourist in my own city

(34:57):
sometimes because I'm always walking.
I'm always seeing things. And I do that so I can just burn
calories, mind you, and then getmy steps counted.
But yeah, this is a great walking city.
Yeah. It's.
Like I I used to walk a lot but I can't do it no more I.
Was going to say what a great ableist humble brag right just

(35:21):
got done talking about being disabled to do subways.
That's. Hilarious and able to spray.
I love it. So getting kicked.
So getting kicked, so getting kicked out of my own show.

(35:42):
I could just see it coming. Jamal, you haven't insulted
Silas yet. Let's go get him.
Oh, no, I yeah, no, Silas says. You know what?
I can insult Silas because he's he's actually always been good
to me. Well, I should say always, but
you know, he's been good to me. I I just said you could do it

(36:02):
stupidly and, and fucking insulthim like you did Carlos and
Rome. I'm just saying like.
Throwing up. Tell us.
Tell us something you're proud of.
Jamal. Get you.
Come on, let's go. We we haven't we haven't
educated Jamal yet on the on pronouns.

(36:23):
Still I. Know Oh my we've just thank.
You for run the black tangent. We did get into the black
tangent, yes. So I, I am very flexible
generally with pronouns in particular if people that I'm
around are not like weird homophobes or red caps or

(36:47):
whatever. Like it is what it is, right?
I can't guess for people what they see.
I am very well aware that depending on who it is that I'm
in front of, they won't be able to identify me any number of
ways. Once I'm in an intimate

(37:09):
relationship of any sort, like meaning that we're having a
conversation, right, or I've gota we're building, we're doing
some work or whatever. At that point, I will, you know,
let somebody know like, OK, so if I am identified as a boy, as

(37:30):
a man's, I, I'm too spirit. I'm sure that it, that is your
experience of me. And if we were all at a house
together and having dinner and dinner and I would be in the

(37:51):
kitchen with the ladies after the meal.
And I know that because that's where I have always been.
And it's not because I'm like, oh, I'm, I'm only going.
It's just, I don't get what the hell the rules are anywhere else
and it doesn't make me feel safe.
So that's that's just been what my life experience has been and

(38:15):
and I've grown up, you know, being told, as I said, that like
I'm everything from eccentric toany kind of slur you could name
to theater kid to Andre 3000 assweirdo to like, you know, it's
whatever people can deal with, they can deal with.

(38:37):
Luckily I am old enough right that that having experienced
enough of my own evolution that I don't really have any kind of
hang ups about how anybody else experiences it.
But yeah, that's that's pretty much what it is.

(39:01):
And so for myself, they, them isthe easiest identifiers.
She is very, very, very frequent.
All of my nieces call me auntie.And they do that of their
volition. That was not something I ever
tapped anyone on the shoulder demanding or asking for.

(39:23):
Yeah. And it was just, you know, I've
been seen by my family and seen by queer family.
And it was actually queer comedians who were the ones who
were like, oh, you thought you were straight.
That's precious. OK.
And just like, oh, wait, what? OK, Well, sometimes I thought

(39:45):
that, but no, not really help. And that that really was the the
impetus, right? Like, I was just like, why can't
I ever get on these shows with dudes?
And then I did a couple and I was like, oh, no, no, no, no,
no, no. I'm going to I'm going to say
right here, this is good. Like it over here?

(40:06):
Yeah, welcome to my world. I get it.
I know it's like to be honest. I know you do.
On that show with all the nerds and so.
Carlos, I did have a question because I I hadn't really
thought of this until I kept hearing Jamaal fumble.
Like, I mean, I'm used to pronouns, right?
Right. But I had really.

(40:27):
But Jamaal was stumbling on nouns and I was like, Oh well,
what's the 2 spirit version of gentlemen?
Like, what would you like? I was like, oh, it's harder.
The times I'm giving Jamal rightnow, it's like, actually, I
don't know what I would have what I have said in that I would
just gone right to the name. I don't know, like, oh.
I mean I probably would have started with like it.

(40:49):
Like usually opening. I try to give openings that are
either completely gender neutral, entirely right.
So if I'm opening the show, whenI'm hosting my podcast, when I'm
doing anything like that, hey, welcome each and everybody and

(41:09):
just leave it at that. If I get stuck and I find the
old school kind of like, ladies and gentlemen, shit coming out
of my mouth, well, you know, because I grew up in the United
States, you know, shit happens. I will catch myself as it's
starting to formulate and I'll change it very quickly.

(41:30):
Gayaties and gentle them. Gentle them.
Oh, I like gentle them, I. Like, yeah, so I is that I mean.
But if I instead of referring ifI'm talking specifically about
you though, yeah, instead of saying this man, what I just
referred like would it be preferred the profession that

(41:50):
you're doing or like this? My name, Yeah, my name, you
know, or the why I'm why I'm speaking with somebody, you
know, I, I mean the ways that that I don't really like have a
whole bunch of shit about how I,I'm introduced even on shows and

(42:11):
stuff, right? Like when they ask us for little
BIOS, I'll give them a little bio or whatever, but even that
I'm not really giving credits. I'm like, you know what I mean?
I'm like, oh, this person said that about me, this one said
that about me, this one thinks this.
And so there you go, that's enough.
I'm going to start talking and we'll be past it.
It was only when I saw your nameand you put they were in my

(42:34):
mind. I'm like.
Oh. Of course that's that's your
pronoun and you know, because I live in a city where also we
have pronouns too. But that's never been it's
usually not established until I make the faux pas.
Oh, honey, everybody has pronouns.
Let me let let let's just deal with that.

(42:56):
Pronouns is just part of language.
I that's one of the things that it it you know, God bless us,
everyone, right? But straight culture is has not
done any favors for our criticalthinking skills, right?
A a pronoun, it hasn't nothing to do with gender outside of

(43:19):
wanting or needing right to identify outside of this weird
binary. That is a myth, right?
And a mythology that has existedreally as, as like a concrete
idea since the 50s and was from,you know, an act of conservatism

(43:42):
to to try to respond to the 40s and the 20s and the 30s and
Harlem in particular. I mean, my God, the Harlem
Renaissance was the gayest thingthat ever could have existed.
Name your favorite artist of theRenaissance.
Homo Does I I promise you. I Langston Hughes.

(44:09):
Zornea Herson. You bet.
Malcolm. What?
Yeah, I mean, it's just, it's somany of the people that we know
as icons are queer to some measure.
And so much of the history is written to erase that in this

(44:30):
weird epigenocide born of tryingto achieve in in in the the
patriarchal system born of whiteness, right?
Because there's no other societythat's ever believed this
nonsense. And so it's just so limiting for
men. Like this idea of this like

(44:51):
loneliness epidemic for men. They could hug somebody.
What the fuck is your problem? Get like, you don't need to be
lonely, have a friend, be vulnerable, tell the truth.
But. You said Malcolm, Did you mean
Malcolm X? Oh, absolutely, Absolutely.
He was a hustler. But he was Muslim.
He was Muslim when he converted.When he converted, he was

(45:16):
Muslim. When he was in the streets, he
was a hustler. When he was in the streets, he
was a hustler. It was not.
I mean, it just was what it was like you got to work with what
you got. It's not.
And again, it's not. I don't.
Care. Like I it does to me.
It's it it it's takes nothing away from what was offered in

(45:42):
terms of there being black nationalism or even that shining
black manhood that was describedright.
Takes nothing from that. But it does take from the idea
of there being possibility models for people who are
growing up and understanding that the idea of leadership, of

(46:05):
masculinity of any identifier isnot erased because of who you
love, right? That's not, that doesn't just
take that away. And you don't have to.
You're not going to. Well, maybe you will.
I don't know. I have not LED a life that

(46:28):
believes me to find that I'm finding or will have found a
person and then just be done right.
Like I, I love multitudes. I I love my friends.
I have romantic relationships with my friends.
I buy them flowers, I take them to movies, I buy them food.
Like that. That level of human intimacy is

(46:56):
something that we just deny ourselves when we don't
acknowledge who we are in the full right.
Like even the relationship between Al Haj, Malik Shahbaz
and and Alex Haley, like if you understand who Alex Haley is,
then it's like, well, OK, let's I guess we can pretend
everybody's straight, but it's really weird.

(47:18):
It's really weird. Like, it's not going to look any
smarter than when we were all pretending that Ricky Martin and
George Michael were straight. Like that was weird.
Hey, even Boy George. Don't forget Boy George can
throw him in, right? A lot.
How in that was that supposed tobe true?
I was literally talking about that on a different podcast this
morning. Grew up being told no no no,

(47:42):
it's just a dude in a dress. He's just a weird dude.
Yeah. OK.
It looks like a duck. OK it.
Wax like a duck. It's definitely not a zebra.
Well, I I will say I was naive enough with George Michael that
when he came out with like father figure then I I thought

(48:04):
that he was straight. I did think that that seemed
very ultra hetero. We were supposed to.
That's why all the supermodels were in it.
Yeah. Oh, no.
Is that the one with? No, that was the one in the cab,
right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's right it, with the leather gloves and the
sunglasses. Yeah, I mean, what?

(48:26):
I look back very, very. Straight.
Very. Straight.
I was in high school. I did not get that you.
Know cruising leather Daddy I. Don't know that we really even
thought about it. We just, we, we saw them.
We saw like, I remember Boy George when I was in, Oh my God,

(48:51):
high school, one of my friends, she was so in love with him.
And I was like, really, Boy George?
Really you Sure and so but. I don't know what child was
thinking. I knew he was gay.
Well. And but The thing is though, is
he he just had really amazing. Publicist.

(49:14):
Arrangement. Style He he had an amazing
style. And so I, you know what, though,
I used to OK, I used to have a joke that I would, I would tell
hold on now and and this as I got older, I used to tell what's
the difference? What's the difference between a

(49:36):
really, really well dressed white guy and a really, really
well dressed black man? The white guy's gay, you know,
and that. Wow.
When you stop and think about it, how many of those really
nicely dress white guys? Then you come back and you go,

(49:57):
oh, God, yeah, they are gay. You know, it's not a bit insult
on them. But what I'm saying is, is that
if you're looking with with a black guy, you, you can't always
tell. Black men have a tendency that
they dress way, way nicer and way more stylish.
I even had a Booker. She she used to say I never have

(50:20):
to tell a black man to dress nice on stage.
Yeah, but you know what, though?I mean, not for nothing, you
should see how they dress here in New York and down in Atlanta.
I mean, they're out there sometimes they don't even have
to guess, you know what I mean? It's like, oh, OK, you know,
when I walk through the village with my friends, yeah, they loud

(50:42):
and proud and it's, you know. When you walk through the
village, Yes, honey, you're in the village, I mean.
I mean, it's it's, you know, youand.
And again, you know, I, I, I. First of all, I, I just want to
make it clear to everybody in this room because I know that,
you know, the, the, the, the lights on me, there's no hatred

(51:03):
in my heart for anybody of the alternative sexual lifestyle.
Doesn't bother me, doesn't affect me.
Love who you want to love. I have no issue with that.
What I do have an issue with, however, are people who have
issues with that and they make it feel like it's has a lot to

(51:24):
do with them. And I'm like, no, they don't
care about you. Like you mentioned the red hats,
they don't, they're not bothered.
I don't. Understand that.
I don't understand the homophobia of it all.
I I never. I was like wait.
And I can say about homophobia, that does protest too much.

(51:46):
That's all I can say. I mean that ass like all all
those politicians are gay. I mean, again, it's one of those
things that it's like, look, I. Answer.
They're not gay, I think they'reat least bi curious.
Oh, they're gay. Oh, there's they crash they.

(52:10):
Crash. They crash grinder, I'm telling
you. No, no, no, I'm telling you for
sure, OK? They crash grinder every time
they have a gathering that that is.
That is the only app that tells you how close your possible
fuckery is within feet. That and every time there's

(52:33):
someplace, whether it's C PAC, aRepublican convention, the the
National Convention, they crash grinder.
That's. Hilarious.
I'm telling you, I am telling you, 201 Benny Johnson could not
be more gay. She is so precious.

(52:54):
God bless her. Silas, what were you gonna
what's, what's your thoughts on this?
You know, I, I think it's, I think it's important to let
people evolve in you live in ignorance at like I talk about
if you look at if I go back, like I remember I didn't care

(53:16):
about Boy George. I think at one point everybody
was gay. I was like, I didn't care.
So like, what does? I don't even know.
That's not a deal, but there wasa point.
I definitely I, but I moved to Massachusetts in like 1986 and I

(53:38):
realized after my time, after I served my time there, that I had
like got in this Puritan. Like I was around these Puritan
values that I didn't think of asPuritan.
But I did spend my summers in California, so I wasn't totally
copped into it. But I do remember like, like if

(53:58):
I look back now, I go, oh, I hadsome homophobia going on because
I would, I don't, I don't think,I never would have thought I was
homophobic. But now I look back and I go,
no, that was kind of homophobic.Like I did fall into the AIDS
scare of like I, I got worried about AIDS suddenly about with
gay folks for like they, but I was smart enough to, when I got

(54:23):
educated, like they said, no, no, no, it's a blood
transfusion, so you can just getit from anybody.
I was like, oh, OK, like I wouldwork.
I'd be like, oh, OK. But I remember specifically I'm
like, it's probably my, I feel it's like my most shameful
period. I will say this, there was a
time because there was trying topass a civil rights bill in

(54:43):
Massachusetts for gay people. And I was doing, I did a debate
on this TV like public access show that we ran out of our high
school. And I took the side of being
against it because, and now I recognize it was actually about
my insecurity as a black person,because I was my stance was, no,

(55:10):
I didn't think that they you should because you can hide
being gay. I and I was mad because I can't
hide being black and I'm gettingharassed all the time for being
black. God, I would love to just be
able to hide this. And it took me a long time to
realize that that was it was about my insecurity as a black
person. And that made me feel that way.

(55:35):
And of course I don't. I don't feel that way now it.
Would be weird if you did. Yeah, but I mean, I feel like I
do feel the Constitution does cover all of this.
I do feel yeah. My only thought is like, we have
to keep passing civil rights laws because people are are are
jackasses and get more specific like it.
All women's rights are covered in the original.

(55:57):
You didn't have to add what black people were covered in the
original. We didn't.
We shouldn't have needed the Civil Rights Act to say like.
Right. Like we're people, like where
everyone's included everybody. So I don't like the fact that we
probably do need to pass a gay civil rights law because it's

(56:17):
stupid, because gay gay folks tout in everything else like
it's the same. And now I'm so I'm so
progressive now. Like I'm surprised I don't just
like walk left in a circle most of the time, right?
Like it's and you know, my, I married my, my cousin.

(56:43):
Well, at the time I thought I was doing a lesbian wedding.
I got married. Sorry I I officiated.
OK. Thank you for speaking.
That out. I appreciated the wedding.
That's not progressive. That's hillbilly.
That's what I'm like. Hey, we're.
From I'm like, I'm like, dude, I'm.
Getting a Red dead. I'm like, dude, I've met your

(57:04):
wife. What's going?
On not my cousin. No, no, no, I officiated her.
I thought it was a lesbian wedding, but her her partner is
also non binary. So I don't know what it is now.
I don't know what to call it. It was a wedding.
Wedding. Yeah, that was and I'm learning.

(57:26):
See, I that's what that's what Ilike is that you like you just
caught me on that. I was like, why did I say a
lesbian wedding? I I never really.
Well, because they told us to. They told us they were gay
weddings. Like, yeah, what the fuck is a
gay wedding? It's a wedding.
Yeah, I feel like I so there's part of me that feels like I
understand what someone has grown up in a household who was

(57:51):
homophobic and how how you can get taught that.
And I think if I didn't spend mysummers in Mass in California
around my dad who's ultra hippielike I, I couldn't see how I
could have taken that path further and it got, would have
got maybe cemented in there. So I like to give the people
that I the benefit that with some education and exposure,

(58:15):
because like I going into college, I went to California
and I went into the theater department.
So and then then I was like, oh,oh, they're gay.
Oh yeah. Oh, this is, I mean, this is,
this is stupid. Like, why did I have any issue
with anything at all? And so I tried to give some

(58:36):
people some grace on that. And my brother's gay.
He's, he's in the Bay Area rightnow.
And I remember I knew he was gaylike when it was like in Little
League, I went to his Little League game and I was like, oh,
my parents are going to have a problem.
Or his parent. His parents, because my

(58:57):
stepfather was from Jamaica and very oh.
Gosh, I knew. Yeah.
It was going to be there. Oh, yeah.
Oh my gosh. And it did.
Like it was horrible. And it's something I wasn't.
Yeah. Like Caribbeans don't really
take homophobia. I mean, take gay, they don't do
it well, you know what I'm saying?

(59:19):
Especially the old school Caribbean parents, they don't,
they don't take it well. And luckily for me, you know, my
mom and my, I mean my dad, I don't think he's not homophobic,
but if he sees something, if he sees like a gay couple, he'll
kind of like nudge me and point him out and like that really
stop. Like like you don't.

(59:42):
But that's that age. That's that, That's that old.
That's that old age, man. That's what my bitch did.
I talk about all the time. That's that old age.
You get that, that, that. Oh yeah.
I think about like. My grandpa, Oh my God, my
grandpa be Before you guys got on just now, I was telling

(01:00:03):
Carlos I met Carlos. At the I think it was the 8th
annual Northwest Black Comedy Festival that is held in
Portland and that it was the year my mom came and it was I
believe it was a Saturday night and there were like 3 different
shows she sat through one of them being the Red light

(01:00:23):
special, which is basically a alternative like comics with
alternative sexual. I don't even like calling it all
what Carlos what would what would actually, Yeah, no, no,
yeah, non traditional sexual lifestyles.
And my mom's husband is is old school Jamaican.

(01:00:47):
So as I and and they're sitting in the front row.
My mom has seen our comedy before.
So she is not at all like she's I'm looking at her.
She's having a great time. I can't see her husband's facial
expression though because of theway that his back was kind of
towards the stage and all I can see is his back.

(01:01:08):
So I can't tell. If he's laughing and having a
great time. But they sat through three
shows. They even watched Carlos, you
know, Carlos was in one of thoseshows, but they saw different
acts from three different shows of three different themes.
And Tyrone, you know, was going every show was going over to my,

(01:01:31):
to my mom and her husband, making sure that they were OK.
And I walk over like second in between the second and third
show. And I walk straight over to the
husband like, hey, how are you holding up?
And he's laughing. He's like, Oh my God, these guys
and girls are funny. And I'm like looking at him like

(01:01:52):
and like, and and he was like, oh, and nothing.
Oh, by the way, he's, he's bringing us drinks, you know
what I'm saying? So I'm like, OK, that's cool.
You know what I'm saying? I figured it would, he would,
you know, I wanted to make sure that he was, you know, OK, he
wasn't uncomfortable or what have you.

(01:02:13):
But either way, you know, they drove all the way down from
Seattle to watch me perform and,you know, watch all these other
comedians. And they had and like by the by,
they had such a great time. You know, it didn't matter that
there were gay black comedians on stage, whether they're male,
female, they, you know, whateverpronouns, it didn't matter to

(01:02:33):
him. What what mattered to him was
they were that they were funny. So but and I'm and I'm so
grateful for that because, you know, they live in Tacoma and,
you know, whenever I bring, you know, my friends over to my
parents, whether they're gay or not, he's not bothered by that.

(01:02:54):
He's already been exposed to three hours worth of it, you
know, and he's in his 50s. You know, I'm like, look, these
are these are people too. He was even talking with them
after the show, you know what I mean?
And it was just like, it made mefeel good that OK, there's that.
He is not, you know, taking thisto my mom and be like, why is

(01:03:15):
your son part of a of this? No, it was like, hey, look, your
friends are great. They're they're cool, they're
funny. I was glad to be able to see
that. So that kind.
Of so prior, prior to that show,had he been kind of, he would be
kind of homophobic. No, no, he showed no signs of
it. But it's just like, I know how.

(01:03:35):
Again, I know how our culture isagainst that.
If I had a brought an uncle to that show, he would have left
second comic in probably he would have been like, all right,
I'm out. I'm going to go outside and
smoke whatever. But again, that is the now, not
for nothing. I have gay cousins, you know
what I'm saying? And I'm not bothered by that.

(01:03:57):
And I I've been paying. I'm, you know, even when I
painted my fingernails, my uncles would get on to me about
that. Like, why are you painting your
fingernails? What's the issue with it?
And it's like, even if I explainit to you, you're not going to
get it. You're not going to understand
it of why I do it, whether it's for emotional reasons, whether
it's for sexual reasons. You would never understand it

(01:04:18):
because you are hard wired to believe that relationship should
be a man and a woman. So there's nothing that I could
tell you that's going to make you feel otherwise.
Now my dad has accepted that I paint my nails.
He doesn't even give a shit, youknow what I'm saying?
As long as I'm not out there murdering people and him bailing
me out of jail, that's all he cares about, all he wants.

(01:04:41):
To hold up murdering and gettingbailed out of jail?
What? What?
What world are you getting bailed out for?
Murder? You'd be surprised.
Yeah, you're not white, Jamal. You're not white.
Hold on. The man who tried to murder my
dad and the two women who tried his accomplices all got bailed

(01:05:04):
out. They were white.
Yeah, they're white men. No.
He was actually native, but. They look white.
Yes. OK.
Well, they're OK. All right.
Yeah, hold on. A second, yeah, but hold on a
second. It was about.
For like 2 years before it went to trial.
You'll be surprised what people get out on bail for.
And and we know this because they murdered somebody.

(01:05:28):
And we're like, oh, you were just in jail for something
serious, and you went out and you did it again.
Yeah, this is New York. I mean, I could probably murder
somebody right now. OK.
Well, we don't need that. I hear your plan about who
you're going to murder. All right, Point being, Point
being. Hey, I'll ask you like I this

(01:05:50):
might be a little Freud and Freud and shower, I don't know,
when Obama got elected and they passed that anti-gay marriage
law in California at the time. Do you remember?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There was the first time, so in
2008, I believe it was 2008 or 2000 or his re election 2012, I

(01:06:16):
forget which one, but Californiawas trying.
There was also a ban of gay marriage law that was being
passed like a sanctity of marriage or whatever.
And it, and nobody could believeit passed.
But everyone else figured out the reason everyone else is
like, well, Obama had a huge turn out of black and Latino
populations who were very against gay marriage at the time

(01:06:39):
at least. And I was sitting there like,
ever since then, I've always been kind of enjoyed watching
white liberals try not to bring up how homophobic the black
community is. Like, we, we can't talk.

(01:07:01):
Nobody ever wants to talk about,they talk about homophobia,
blah, blah, blah. I was like, you know, the black
population is pretty homophobic overall, and they're, well,
can't. Talk about boom.
Because then that's racist. But I don't know.
I've always just I, I I've kind of enjoyed watching that
tension. Yeah.

(01:07:22):
The and you also you, you kind of, you like, just stir the pot.
You're the kind of person who likes to stir the.
Pot. I like to watch the pot now.
I like to watch it more than I don't want to stir.
I just want to walk by the window.
I think that's part. When to watch it?
Yeah. I think that's part of getting
older. I think as we get older a little
bit more of like, I don't have the time or energy.

(01:07:44):
I mean I will OK last last Thanksgiving I definitely heard
my my adopted brother. He see made a comment at
Thanksgiving and it was something like it was something,
I forget what exactly what he said, but it sounded very anti
trans. And I was like, and people kept
going on. They said, hold on, what did you

(01:08:05):
just say? And I called him out and I got a
big fight going there. And I don't think it was me
stirring it, but I have no, I have no problem with someone
getting called out publicly. And I, I knew he was, I knew he
was going to be in the minority there in that view.

(01:08:26):
And what it was kind of funny watching my family not want to
like attack their son and tryingto trying to be understanding of
his feelings. Well, I'm like, no, dude, that's
are are you a flat earther too? Like what's wrong?
Like because he didn't believe in non binary and how trans
people had always are like getting mad at him and like

(01:08:49):
yelling at him because he like misgendered them and like, dude,
nobody. You you I'm sure I am absolutely
positive based on him that, yeah, he kept ignoring it and
kept calling him the the wrong after they corrected him and

(01:09:09):
that he came off almost belligerent about it.
Like he came off as an asshole. And yeah, so eventually maybe he
lost his job, but I'm like, yeah, well, you kind of had a
comment, dude. Like you don't.
You're in customer service firstof all.
Oh wow, I. Mean it was a customer service
type retail position like. Yeah.

(01:09:31):
But I was just so mad, like, andnow I'm like, I don't really
talk to him. Well, he did.
He said another family drama thing happened.
But like, I'm like, I was done. I was, I was telling everyone in
our family, you know, J dog there, he's a transphobe.
Like I was just like, what? The transphobe?
The Transphobe. My, my new favorite thing now is

(01:09:53):
whenever I do comedy in the South, like the South, and the
subject of whether it's trans or, you know, homosexuality
comes up and somebody tries to quote scripture to me, I'm like,
oh, please, oh, please, put that, put that away.

(01:10:14):
You know what I'm saying? Like put that away because you
have no idea how wrong you can be.
Well, the Bible says that. You know.
It should be between a man and awoman.
I'm like. Really, you're going to you're
going to throw that at you're going to throw that that out
there. So the.
Bible says that we should stone people.

(01:10:37):
Are we bringing that that back? There's a lot of things that are
in the Bible. The Bible was a history book
written by man, and that it was.Yeah, I I have one joke about
gay marriage that makes fun of homophobes.
And the only place I ever got a comment from someone negatively

(01:10:59):
in all the rural places I've been to, I've never performed in
the South was Tacoma. Tacoma is the only place I had a
black woman say something. She goes, yeah, but that's gay
still like that. I'm like.
And I was like, what the? Fuck, maybe it wasn't
homophobic, maybe it was just recognition.

(01:11:22):
Maybe it sounds. Pretty homophobic.
That's gay still. No, no, it was not like that.
No, it was not accepting gesture, but I was just always
like I was like I was like, wait, I know this is Tacoma, but
I guess at the time I thought it's Seattle light, right?
Like it's just still like, are we progressive down here?
And I realized that they are realizing how many how not it

(01:11:45):
was. No, I performed in Tacoma.
It is. It is not.
But it's like, how could this nobody did this?
In Oregon, go back to North Seattle.
Seriously, seriously. Because, you know, Tacoma is, is
definitely better than maybe say, Eastern Washington, but no,
it is still like, no, no, it it's not as progressive at all.

(01:12:13):
I mean, The thing is, go ahead, go ahead I.
Was just going to say I don't, I, I do get a little extra
annoyed at homophobia from blackpeople because I, I do, I've
talked to my friend Manny about this.
I was like, I feel like we should know better.
Like, like, like aren't you, you're used to, aren't you used

(01:12:34):
to hearing people say stupid, dumb shit or thinking stupid,
dumb shit about you? Or am I just that old that I
remember? Like, how do you, like, you got
to be better. You should like black people
should be the least homophobic of everybody, right?
Like. What would they one would?
Think. Yeah, you.
Yeah, one would think. Are you calling someone a slur?

(01:12:56):
I mean, beyond that, right, Like, again, if we're honest
and, and, and have any historical lens right to to
where we came from and where we've been, that's a really,
really, really, that's a slippery slope, friend.
Like, OK, so Busta Rhymes is no good.

(01:13:20):
Now you're not going to listen to them anymore.
We're done Grandmas Melon the Furious 5.
We're not. Look at these people.
Look at what they're wearing. Look.
At them. I am not going to stereotype
like that, Sir. I'm not stereotyping, friend.
I'm I'm telling you. Luster rhymes.
The whole homo thug thing that happened through most of the

(01:13:42):
night. Homo thug and the most homo
he's. Not wrong, he's not.
He's not wrong about that though.
For real, because I've never. Heard that term and I love it.
The whole homo. I mean, I've heard like Birdman
having sex with some of the people in his circle.
I mean, again, there's a lot of rappers out there that really

(01:14:03):
like, like you said, Carlos, they have publicists that make
sure. That for 15 years, I know these
dudes like I'm not saying it just to say it like it's just
what it was is right. And again, right.
Like the thing about Trevor is like you look at you look at
this dude and the wild homophobia he showed when he did

(01:14:26):
that documentary with Byron. Like when was that?
That was in the mid no, late late 90s, very late 90s, early
2000s maybe. And he just went off all of a
sudden, you know, when he was just asked about we
representation in hip hop talking about Yo, I can't even

(01:14:49):
talk about this with you, man. That's a Nah, Nah about and
left. And it's like dog, you, you're
telling all of yourself. You tell them, right?
Yeah, and like to the thing you were saying earlier, Jamal, of
like, you know, Trinidadian and Jamaican culture, like I was in
Kingston for a while and like some places people don't like it

(01:15:18):
is gay, is gay, is gay down there, like is gay.
It's not, it's not the church culture is not one that is going
to be like, you're going to P town, you're not going to San
Francisco, OK, You're not hanging out in the village.
But like culture finds itself, people find themselves.

(01:15:40):
We have always been here. Always.
You were talking about you got gay cousins, like, Yeah.
No. Shit.
Emmy, Emmy Award-winning ER, thetelevision show that taught me
That was the first one to teach me about Down Low, the black man
who's. Down low on ER.

(01:16:01):
No, no, what there was an episode where this like there
was like this black gangs gangster kind of guy and there
was somebody with him. It was like a patient and like
they're trying to like figure out what's going on and they're
like, wait, you've had sex, you've had anal sex.
Who had you, You have sex with and you like wouldn't say

(01:16:22):
anything this because the gangster had the had the other
guy had a he had a girlfriend and then you find out about it
was they're on the down low. About yeah, there's a episode on
The Boondocks where there's thischaracter called Gangsta Licious
who's supposed to be this bad ass rapper and it turns out he's

(01:16:43):
had homosexual relations with a person from his past that kind
of came out the past and like caught up with them and that was
kind of like exposed and stuff like that.
I mean that shit, that shit happens like a lot more than we
would like to think, you know what I'm saying?
So it's just like it's definitely out there season.

(01:17:04):
I just. Find it fascinating the I also
the I mean, there's people of all race, right?
Who? I'm not gay.
I'm not gay. Yeah, we have sex, but that's
not gay. Like it's not like it.
They're like, it's not their main thing.
Yeah. Well, right.
But now after their president got busted out, it's like, well,

(01:17:26):
you know, you know, you just gotto be able to suck Dick like a
man. You know, that's all it is.
It's just you just got to get that Dick sometimes.
And that's. Oh.
Shit. What you got to do, because
that's Manish to get it like that because.

(01:17:47):
Honestly, you aren't even a man if you haven't like to be real.
Right, really like and it's justlike wild shit, like *** y'all
are the no matter what. And and it goes again to like
proving the point right? Like around John Brown's
birthday and all the rest of everything that's going on right

(01:18:08):
now like that, when we know our history, you cannot take
anything away from anybody, nor can you embarrass anybody about
who they are. There's nothing you can do about
it. Like, what do you want to do?
Like John Brown having been withand and and partnered with.

(01:18:31):
I don't know if they were in anykind of physical relationship,
but the the young queer or I don't I don't know how you would
identify in that era. Young born a boy in dresses with
whom he travelled right. This nothing is new, nothing is

(01:18:55):
new. And and it's not until you get
into this like the scientific racism, the scientific
cisgendered, forced cisgendered ideas.
I mean, even if you know the history of square dancing,
right? And aside from the fact that

(01:19:16):
everyone in this room square dances, and I know it because
Henry Ford made God damn sure ofit, because that's what you were
going to do in elementary school, because we're not going
to have that *** noise going on in any of these schools, right?
Aside that during the Western expansion, just as during
colonialism, it was just a bunchof dudes being dropped off.

(01:19:38):
And it wasn't until later that they would bring women to try to
calm down all the violence and domesticate the area once the
colonists had settled. But these dudes were out there
with each other, right? So all the square dancing that
was happening in California, right?
Dudes would have in either their, their, their back, right

(01:19:59):
pocket or left pocket. That's where they would have
their handkerchief, red or blue.So that you would know who was
approaching who to take the leadin the dance and that's who they
would end up spending the evenings with, Right?
Like it's not new shit, it's just the history gets buried and
buried. I don't have any idea either,

(01:20:20):
I'm learning something new here big time.
The history gets buried, right? And the different colors would
signify different things. And they still do.
Now it's kink right? Now it's like if you're not in a
leather community or a king community or whatever, then like
it's smooth. It doesn't mean anything.
But if you're in those communities, right, knowing it,

(01:20:42):
it, it can mean you're a top, you're a bottom, you fist,
you're a receiver, you do this, you do that.
You want this one night, two night, whatever, right?
And if you're a cruiser, if you're as was George Michael,
right? Each of these things signifies
something, and it is clearly understood by the participants
what it signifies. This has never gone anywhere.

(01:21:04):
Question from the class What's acruiser?
Going to what he what he got busted for when he was in the
bathroom and and the cop pretended.
Like he was the 1st. One to flash his junk.
Yeah, I. Mean random sex with dudes in
places that dudes know to go have sex.
Oh, that's called cruising. That's cruising, Yeah, OK.

(01:21:28):
We are getting so and here you know what's so funny about this
Carlos is that I I'm impressed that I'm getting educated on
this my background. I did phone sex for a while and
Romeo here had been worked in this the well he worked at a
castle like the the adult toy store for a long.

(01:21:50):
Time and the trades. Yeah.
So you would think that, you know, like throwing us for some
new stuff. We're like, we're leaning
forward like. I mean, this stuff, I'm like
hell yeah. There's like we're always
interested in, you know, like I'm still, I'm going to have to
bring you back on when I bring my cousin on who's she's a

(01:22:12):
sexual addiction therapist, which yeah, so just to be able
to and she's working on. Getting her brain a little bit,
getting her. Master's degree too.
So I'm just wondering, you know,like I want you to write
questions, everything to see they are, you know, like do.
You. Yeah, absolutely.
That would be so interesting. Oh, I think that would be fun.

(01:22:36):
We need to. Do absolutely, yeah, yeah, yeah,
no, I mean, it's just, you know,I, I think part of and this goes
a little bit back to to Romeo. The the thing that you were
talking about before around embracing our indigenous culture
as well, right, is just like themore that we are able to accept

(01:23:02):
all parts of ourselves, the lesswe have to go around trying to
suppress which ends up either showing back up in some place
really gross and violent toward ourselves.
Right? Like that, that Busta Rhymes
level homophobia, that weird shit that like, what are you

(01:23:24):
doing, dawg? Just fuck, I don't care.
Nobody cares. Nobody can rap that fast.
That's the only reason we're here.
And like, you know, finding a place of being able to
demonstrably right, just exist and exist in full.

(01:23:48):
Not like, OK, well, I'm going toI'm going to come out in some
compromised ways, some kind of like, you know, Paul Mooney ass
self hating way that has me doing some fuck shit and and

(01:24:08):
causing the destruction of my best friend's family.
You know what I mean? Like because I can't deal with
my own shit, right? Like that's wild shit.
And the only way that that stopsin our communities is if we're
able to say like or or he were able to say right.

(01:24:31):
Well, I'm gay and I'm also goingto talk about that, right If
which Richard Pryor did. He talked on stage openly about
the dudes that he fucked and it's like.
Well, why the fuck couldn't PaulMooney?
Just do that and not be such a weirdo.
That would have been good. That would have been nice

(01:24:54):
instead of raping his fucking son.
That would have been a brilliantthing.
But like, oh, yeah. Oh, Paul Mooney did things to
Richard Pryor's child. That's yeah, Dog.
Yeah, yeah. No, it was I, I, I didn't mean
to take this into a weird way like that.
No, no, you got me Googling shitlate night tonight.

(01:25:19):
Yeah, no. Damal has three monitors up
right now. He's looking.
You'll see his sons got like very defensive and weird and
mad. But like, no Richard Pryor's
bodyguards like everything aboutwhat happened when he had had
lit himself on fire, Like it wasabout the the falling part of

(01:25:40):
that relationship. And that fell apart because of
the assault on on his child by Paul Mooney.
And Paul Mooney was regularly introduced by Richard Pryor up
to that point as Paulette. Like, whenever they, you know,
somebody was coming in the housebecause he didn't want anybody

(01:26:02):
to get mistakes and whatever, you know, like, it's family,
right? Like, hey, this is my best.
This is the weird uncle, OK, Right.
This is Paulette Mooney. You hear me?
You know what I'm saying? All right.
So if you ain't trying to see them, like don't see them like
that, right? And, you know, it was a child.
He was a child. He was a child.

(01:26:23):
It wasn't. It's not OK, Right?
Like, you know, we're, we're notgood.
We're not good. We're not good comedians.
You know, what we do comes from a place in history, right?
Like we were. We are born of brothels, We are
born of sex work. We are born of entertaining
these these dudes who are philandering in between the acts

(01:26:48):
so that somebody don't get shot or stabbed or robbed.
That's our job, right? To goof around and like do that
and we've elevated it right first through the honesty that
that rich gave to us and and through the the, the fancy the

(01:27:09):
red gave to us and the and the the hilarity the moms gave to
us, right. But now if we can't also own our
history without like deciding that somehow we're throwing
people away or whatever to be able to like, say what was true

(01:27:31):
about Cosby? What was true about fucking Paul
Mooney? What was true about these dudes?
It's like, all right, well, but then you we just going to do it
again, Like somebody else is going to let it happen because
you know that you you, you're you're bullshit, right Podcast

(01:27:53):
comedians, right, Those bro Bros, like they busted
themselves out, they told on themselves.
So they're all falling apart, right?
All the, all the, all the, the, the Lia's and all that bullshit.
They're like they're done. But in terms of within the black
community, there's so little discussion of like the reality

(01:28:14):
of the sorts of abuses that happened once power takes place
that like, OK, well, if we're going to build our a, a
community that's going to live past this late stage capitalism
that we find ourselves in, wherewe're running around trying to
find healthcare, like fucking drug friends.

(01:28:39):
Like who who got an ambient for me?
Who got a fucking hey, yo, does anybody out like an SSRI?
I'm all fucked up, you know whatI mean?
Like this is not the way we're supposed we're meant to live.
This is not the way we're meant to live.
And a lot of that is like being able to accept ourselves, right,
racially, gender wise, right? And, and the pain that brought

(01:29:04):
us to the places of being comedians, like, but you know,
this is not very funny, but like, this is real.
This is who we are. And it's like, OK, well, if we
can't talk about it with each other, what are we going to do?
I think a lot of that what, you know, what resonates with me is
this like talking about being a comedian and this and what is it
about ourselves that people makefun of us, have put us down for

(01:29:28):
or that have taught us that we should hate about ourselves.
And you know, like for me, I've always I've never been skinny a
day in my life except for when Iwas born.
I was born 6 pounders. And after that, I just, I get
just kept going and, you know, like, but it wasn't just like
my, my weight. It was also like my size.
You know, I would walk in, I would change schools a lot.

(01:29:50):
And I remember in fifth grade going into a new school, and the
kids asked me if I was their substitute teacher, you know,
because I was so much. Shit, I'm sorry, I've never
heard you say that before. Yeah, like are you are.
So I'm like, no fucker, I'm in the same class with you, you

(01:30:11):
know, and. Wow.
Even from the first time I changed schools when I was in
kindergarten and I don't know why they they didn't walk me
down to my class, but it was downstairs and they said, just
go down the stairs and it's the door on the right.
And I went and knocked on the door and I said, I'm here for
class. And the teacher was like, Oh,
no, honey, you're in the wrong room.

(01:30:32):
And I'm like, this is where you know, I'm like, no.
And she goes, no, you're in the wrong room.
And I started crying and I was like, this is go.
And she's like, oh, honey, how old are you?
I'm like garden. And then she's like, Oh, shit,
Oh, oh, you are in this room, You know, because I was so like,
I couldn't hide that I couldn't any school picture.

(01:30:54):
You look at, you know, you see little doves and then me in the
background, you know, like I wasstanding like these kids came,
their heads were to my chest because I was so much bigger
than that. And so it was something that
I've always been made fun of. I got beat up by a gang of boys,
you know, because I was my last day.

(01:31:16):
I was, I was changing schools. I was changing schools again.
And I was leaving and a gang of boys circled around me and beat
the shit out of me because, you know, because I was a girl that
was so much bigger than all of them.
You know that they, you know that hatred for me.
And none of them even knew me. You know me to tell me where
they live. Oh no, my, my older brother

(01:31:37):
found every single one of them. He found every single one of
them. And when one of them saw him
coming a block away, started running, screaming.
I didn't touch her, I didn't touch her, but Joe got him and
beat the fuck out of him. He goes.
You sure damn sure didn't help her either.
Beat the hell out of him. Someone, you know, when we came
to school the next day and the principal called everybody into

(01:31:57):
the room, the principal was looking at all of them all beat
up and in bandages and shit. And he's like, look like she got
a few licks in too. And Joe was like, didn't say a
word, you know, I mean, but you know, those are the things like
when you you like, you look thatmuch different than that people
around you. You're a target.

(01:32:18):
You have a target. And it's not just about like
color of hair, color of eyes, color of skin.
I mean, if there's something different about you than the
people that you're around, especially if if they think that
you're vulnerable in some way. That's why I learned how to to
be funny was because it's reallyhard to punch you when you got
them laughing. And quite frankly, because I was

(01:32:40):
so much bigger than everybody else.
My mom always told me, like Marianne, you do not want to be
fighting. You're going to hurt them.
If you fight them, you are seriously going to hurt them.
And so I didn't want to hurt them.
I so I learned how to make them laugh instead.
Yeah, like, you know, when I lived, you know, coming from the

(01:33:00):
Caribbean, I left, I remember weleft New York when I was 7 years
old and we moved to Vermont of all places.
We moved out of a black neighborhood to a white
neighborhood and in Vermont. And I was very scared when I,
you know, when I got into my class, I was very scared because

(01:33:21):
there was not a single black kidin my class.
As a matter of fact, the only minority was there was this
chick named Jennifer Wen. And she was Vietnamese.
She was the other minority person.
And but the cool thing that I'llnever forget, and strangely
enough, I'm not even friends with these people now because
we've all grown up and, you know, I haven't, I've lost
touch, but they embraced me. You know, they embraced me.

(01:33:45):
They made me a part of their crew.
Whenever white people are willing to embrace me and
overlook my differences, it's always welcoming.
I've learned how to play hockey.You know, that was like one of
the first sports I really knew. I've learned how to play.
You would think it would be basketball, but it was actually
hockey. And when I'm we moved from there

(01:34:07):
to Houston, TX, and that was a different animal in itself, even
though it was still inner city, it was a different type of
embracing. As in less white people embraced
me, the minorities embraced me. But growing up in Texas,

(01:34:29):
especially like when I was in the 5th, 6th and 7th grade, I
like during recess, if I wasn't playing sports, I was hanging
out cracking jokes on people andmy friends would laugh.
And I think that's kind of like the first time.
I never thought I was funny in school at all.
I never thought I was funny. I was more an athlete than I

(01:34:52):
was, you know, a witty person. But whenever you're always being
berated because, I mean, I had dreadlocks in Texas, talk about
a culture shock. You know, people, people will.
Oh, you're that guy from Cool Runnings.
Like I, you know, I never got sick of hearing that.
Or they would call me Whoopi Goldberg or they would have all

(01:35:13):
these names for me. I mean, and on top of that,
forget the way that I looked. I mean, the N word dropped all
the time. So I would get that.
And you know, that's where a lotof my race jokes that I come up
with, that's where all that stems from is being belittled,
being berated. Haven't me and my brother having
to fight our way in, you know, standing up for ourselves, you

(01:35:36):
know, But you know, shit happens.
And we you, you know, as far as us being comics, you know, we
always say that our comedy comesfrom our pain.
I think the best jokes I've really ever written was came
from a time where I was just, you know, pulling what little
hair I had out of my head because I'm angry at something

(01:35:58):
or something from the past that's haunting me.
So I would just sit in my and and start writing something that
would make me laugh if anything,and then find a mic to do it in,
you know? Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, it sucks that you had to go through all of that
pain and you still just ended upbeing a Giants fan too.
Like that's. Wow, wow, That that yeah.

(01:36:22):
Like you never, like you're never really going to escape
pain, right? But.
He embraced. He's.
That Giants fan. Yeah, it it, I, it does hurt
like it's been a bad year just to get even with sports,

(01:36:43):
personal life, personal growth. It's 2025.
I'm just like, wow, when did 2020 happen again?
That's yeah. But yeah, it's and I have to
live with myself 24/7. So how about that?
Yeah. Don't we all?
So, OK, I have to ask this question and you can tell me

(01:37:06):
that it's, it's completely and totally out of line and, and I,
I will, but I, I'm just, I want to ask a question that I think a
lot of people because I'm so curious about they, them.
I understand that when we talk about somebody who's they, them,
it's a dual spirit. OK, So I have to just that

(01:37:32):
because I'm trying to clear up some of my own confusion.
You're born and and and this is Oh my God, I'm going to totally
culturally butcher the shit out of this.
And I know, and I apologize in advance.
You're you have male genitalia. Are you attracted to men or

(01:37:56):
women or, you know, where I'm going with this?
And I'm and I'm, but I think that it's a, it's a question
that I think a lot of people are, are, are, are very curious
about. Nobody has, you know, they don't
always have somebody to ask. So I'm asking that question
mostly I think is more out of, you know, just sexual curiosity,

(01:38:17):
but also more out of out of trying to help understand the,
you know, the different sexualities of people.
Does that make sense that I totally just like Butcher all
over? Carlos, can I, I'm, I'm trying
to test my education. Can I try to like see if I can
make a guess? Go for it.

(01:38:39):
Marian, I believe you conflated two different things.
You can be your gender is not about who you're attracted to,
right? Like so it doesn't really have
to do with what genitalia they have.
Like it's, I mean, gender is separate.
You could be attracted to only female, female presenting, or

(01:39:02):
only men, or both. Because then you got pansexual
and huh. Now you're, you know, and I, the
only reason I asked this, and here's one, is because I
actually, you know, there was a transgender comic that used to
be in the area and then we used to work with her quite a bit.
And it wasn't until like, Oh my God, I think.

(01:39:27):
And she used to do jokes about having like having sexual jokes,
right? She would do jokes about it, but
it wasn't until like talking about her vagina was a virgin
and you're looking for a guy andstuff like that.
But it wasn't until off stage years and years later that she
was telling explaining to me that she was into women.

(01:39:51):
And it really threw me. And I was like, if you're in, if
you're attracted to women, this again, this is my ignorance, OK?
This is my, my hillbilly ignorance.
It really is. And I'm trying to educate
myself. So I was very shocked.
I was like, if, if you're into women, why would you take away

(01:40:14):
the one thing that might give you an opportunity to, to be
with a woman? So, but not only that.
More importantly, how much more?Difficult it would be.
Life is hard enough. Life is hard enough.
Did she get a sex change? Yeah, she did.

(01:40:35):
And and here's what was so crazyis that life is so fucking hard
as it is. But to be transgender and to be
gay, how hard that would be in society, you know?
Isn't that hard, not that hard. I mean, again, right, like the

(01:40:56):
the spaces for inclusion, right.I mean, think about it in terms
of even the conversation we're having that right like it for
for all of us to be here having this talk.
This is you've got a group of folks who are identified with

(01:41:20):
different oppressed communities who find commonality in comedy
through language, through through connectivity, through
Jamal, like you know, and and sowe're brought together.
If you think back to your elementary high school, if you
did college, college experiences, if not at work,

(01:41:42):
wherever, right? Finding folks who recognize you
and folks who recognize you finding you is just an
inevitability, right? All of these ideas about why or
how something is going to be this, that or the next difficult

(01:42:06):
are again really attachments to ideas that are mythologies more
than anything. And if and once you are able to
once won, if it is their journeyto able to dismantle that myth,

(01:42:29):
right with facts, right with history, with understanding,
with oh, where did this come from?
Where'd that come from this? When did people start deciding
that this whole reality and it'snot a group of people, it's just
a reality that is true for people, right?

(01:42:51):
Is not a reality that's true. And why was that right?
And because there's always a reason.
There's always a reason. The moral majority of bullshit
was about, you know, churches trying to get a bunch of money.
That's all it was, you know? So, yeah, I mean, it's always
about resources. It's always about resources.

(01:43:14):
There's never anything else there.
Yeah. I mean, for Nancy the Neck to be
the one who was like trying to do that, It's like, what the
fuck? You grew up in film?
You and and Reagan grew up in, you know, God damn well
everybody gay. Stop it.
Rock Hudson was your peer, my girl.
Like, what are we doing right? And so, like, it really is.

(01:43:39):
It's just about like, OK, what is the thing that we can put out
to frighten people into giving us their money, right?
And, and into giving us their power into giving us their, you
know, permission and abuse whoever we feel like.
We're not spending money on the things that ought to be spent,

(01:44:01):
right? So much like the the Black
Panthers led the the disability movement and the reason we have
disability justice in this country is because of the women,
the Black Panthers, right? The idea of making the Panthers
out to be these warrior dudes with guns who are out to kill

(01:44:22):
all the white people and not thereality of it being a bunch of
lesbians making sandwiches for people.
Like that's a bad look. Puts us in a situation, doesn't
it? And, and the dudes who were in
the pictures are not the ones who were in charge.
But like, it sure puts us in a situation if that's the

(01:44:43):
mythology that we're going to believe.
Rather than knowing that like Elaine Brown and Angela Davis
for a very short time and other folks who were all college
educated had law degrees, right?We're about organizing the women
in the communities to make sure that the that the children were
fed. That's ultimately what it was

(01:45:04):
about. And it expanded on top of that.
And when it was then haunted down, then OK, we have to
protect ourselves, then, OK, we're getting paranoid.
Then we'll hear some cocaine andsome stories and some CIA
infiltration, right? But all of that was just because
it was successful, right? Same thing with the hip hop.

(01:45:25):
Like the reason that that LucianGray has done what he's done is
because that is what's successful, right?
Like a black art or culture cannot succeed, a brown art or
culture, a queer art or culture cannot succeed without the
patronage of those who have money.

(01:45:49):
And, and so even when I was referencing the Harlem
Renaissance earlier, right. For whatever was true about all
these folks being dandies and out with their wives and
mistresses and whomever. Like also, if white people
weren't going to the Cotton Club, like the thing wasn't
going to succeed. If white people not buying N.W.A

(01:46:10):
records, N.W.A is never blown upperiod.
Like it just can't. It can't.
You don't get to have a number one hit in this country.
If white people not listening tothe music, sorry, that's that
don't make no sense. Teenagers, white teenagers got
money. Who do you think is buying these
records? You know what I mean?
So Lucian Grain is going to put out.

(01:46:32):
What? Were you saying?
I said black people only represent 1313% of the nation.
We only represent 13% of the nation.
That's it. They have Drake fans.
If the white kids who love Drakeand got fooled by them weren't
like Brought Clarity by Kendrick, like Drake could still

(01:46:58):
be that dude, Drake could still be that dude.
Like, and in terms of what blackfolks were listening to that it
never changed. I still have never listened to
no Drake album, not once in my life.
I've like, what? OK, I guess, but I didn't even

(01:47:19):
know I could. The Super Bowl Drake I've.
Heard Drake? Yeah, I've heard.
You know, I've heard, of course,I listen to the radio.
So I've I've heard Drake and I've heard.
Yeah, but I mean, I've heard Kiki.
Do you love me? But like, I that's the only
thing. Like I Boo.
Yuck. I don't like that.
Doesn't that hip hop? What is that?

(01:47:41):
But I don't know. It's a white.
Hip Hop. You know.
Well, it's hip hop, right? Like it's CNC Music Factory.
It's fine. It's nice, it's fun to dance to
and shop with and it's great. It's.
Canadian hip Hop. If.
Cardinal official was Canadian hip hop and that shit was hard.

(01:48:01):
That shit was hard. But that was also the 90s.
I'm old but. We're look, Carlos, we're all
old in this room. I think we're all, we're all in
that. Some any, anybody, anybody under
40 in this room? OK.
I think under 40. Probably the youngest 1 here.

(01:48:22):
I think I'm the oldest I. Don't know.
You think? Yeah. 71 God damn.
Really. That ass.
Oh man, you look. You look amazing.
Wait, Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
When I was born. Wait, wait, wait, wait.
Hold on a second. Born in 71 or are.

(01:48:44):
You 7. Oh, I thought you were saying
you were 70. One Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no not. That I'm 71 years old.
Oh my God. Say you look.
What was you born? Bro.
I'm 92. All right, I'm going to start
sucking Dick all. Right.
That's. The same thing.
I am the oldest. One, no, because Carlos, you're

(01:49:04):
still younger than me and I'm younger than him.
Yeah, I'm the oldest one in. Here and I think stylist you're
you're 7 more than us too, yeah.Really.
All this time 1981 up. Here black, don't crack and go
ahead. I was born in 68. 69.

(01:49:24):
I wanted to be born in 68 or 69 so bad.
I was born the last great year of them all, 69.
Yeah, I was born in 60. 8 That was six.
Yeah. That was the thing about the,
that the generation in that time, like I remember like the
the kids who were born at your time.

(01:49:45):
And I was like, God damn it. I just missed.
It I'm almost cool. I'm almost cool.
That much, Yeah. Yeah, I always said that I, I
was born in the last great generation.
Like the the 60s was amazing. You know, I don't remember it,
but you know, it was amazing. But then again, most of the

(01:50:06):
people who lived in the 60s don't remember it either, so.
Yeah, we remember the 70s. Lucky, lucky.
The 70s was fucking crazy. Yeah, the 70s was crazy because
it was wild 80s. 80s. Yeah, I'm gonna tell you what
being a kid in the 70s was fucking That shit was wild as

(01:50:26):
hell. I I love Hell yeah.
It was, it was wild as shit, acid rain and like, God damn.
Hell. Yeah, think about that.
Just the other day, acid rain. We couldn't go out because it
was raining. Yeah, yeah.
God damn. Yeah.

(01:50:50):
So many shit. Such short memories we have.
Like kids was showing up with burnt skin from the stuff,
getting pollution in the rain. Yeah, yeah, we were spraying
Aquanet all over every goddamn thing.
Just terrible. Yes, and it was so fucking

(01:51:10):
flammable too. Don't you smoke around me.
Everything covered in asbestos and.
Yeah. You're crazy.
I remember Aquanet. Oh my God.
Aquanet, yeah. That was the day.
Those were the days, man. This has been a really great.

(01:51:33):
So. Educational and.
Segment so far, really. Has.
I think we're getting down to that part where we do movies.
Are we doing movies? Person you know how you know?
You know how we end this. OK, so this here is the part
where. I have.

(01:51:54):
One more question. Before we wrap it up, I have to
ask both Silas and Carlos. I may go.
Silas, I know that you you stilldo a podcast of your own,
correct? Yeah, it's, it's, it's getting
back to it. We're just just re re kind of
doing it. I've had a this year I've been

(01:52:14):
on sort of an artistic break of sorts.
I've been learning guitar and and things, but my wife had a
brain surgery in March and so I've had I've been having to
take care of two kids and her and she's just, she's got back
to work full time the last month, right.
So I've had a lot of stress overthis year and unable to go out

(01:52:39):
to do things very much. And then just kind of timing
summer break happens and that's hard to meet up with my partner
for the podcast and I couldn't go out to see movies.
And also you don't realize didn't realize how many movies
deal with the spouse just died until you know, you're dealing

(01:52:59):
with somebody who's having a brain surgery and you're like,
no, I don't want this is not fun.
I don't even want to not going to.
I'm going to watch reality showsfor a little bit and I've just
in the last like 3 weeks startedwatching dramas again.
So I'm like, oh I can do this, Ican do that.
Yeah, no, I'm back. So the podcast will be coming

(01:53:21):
out again more shortly here. And your podcast?
Is well, we have Black and 1/2 that I do with Samantha Rund.
Now we've been having troubles connecting because of our both
of our kids. But then I also have you're
watching a movie with Silas Lindenstein.
That's where I discuss films, people's favorite films and do

(01:53:44):
some movie reviews on there. So we'll be hitting, we'll be
hitting those. Keeping and you'll be posting
those on your your. You'll keep those posted on your
socials when you come back out. Oh yeah, yeah.
OK, if you want to promote anything, now's a good time.

(01:54:05):
Get your plug. In oh this my my plug.
Now. It's now it's so Silas.
You were mentioning you do a podcast also.
What is your podcast called? The podcast is Strategy and
Solidarity pod. The podcast, very long name, you

(01:54:30):
know, the idea of just calling it pod and then not mentioning
that that is actually a podcast seemed like it just needed the
redundancy. It needed it and that I do with
Teresa Logan. It comes out on Thursdays.
We are, in fact, I am uploading hopefully in short order,

(01:54:56):
depending on technology, the 5thepisode tonight.
So that'll be out tomorrow wherever people listen to pods.
Yeah, and. What is what is your podcast
focus on? I mean, solidarity, solidarity
and oh God, I just. Had a strategy and solidarity.

(01:55:18):
And solidarity, strategy and solidarity.
Yeah, it's a lot of it's a lot of the the the sort of building
community space and room for more possibility models
platforming as many voices kind of globally as we are able.

(01:55:42):
There is an app that correspondsis strategy and solidarity.org.
That's the best way to get it. Apple will charge you don't do
that. Just you can find us the other
way. And yeah, it's it's, it's deeper
discussions around all of the issues and complexities of life

(01:56:06):
around race, class and gender, and how we navigate this cold,
cold planet alone together. Nice.
OK, that's. Awesome SO.
Sorry. Thank you.
OK. No, no, no, that's fine.
That's fine. That's that's what we do.

(01:56:26):
We like to make sure that these guys get their.
Yeah, that's one of the reasons why, you know, we have guests is
so. We like to make sure to.
Kind of cross pollinate too, when we have our listeners and
stuff and something that strikesthem that maybe they want to do
a little bit more deeper dive onour guests, they want to find
out more about you. That's gives them an opportunity
also to have another form to catch you guys on.

(01:56:50):
OK, so now we do our weekly, ourweekly wrap up where we binge
watch and we talk about what we've been binge watching for
the week or any movies that we have seen or we'll be seeing in
the near future and, and who would like to go first this

(01:57:12):
time. We're going to, we're going to
actually. And what we like to do is we
usually like to try and do it with one of our Reg, our our
hosts first so that the guests can kind of get an idea of.
What? OK, Well, I'll go first.
OK. You go first.
OK, so we've been binge watchingreligiously.

(01:57:33):
Religiously, we have been binge watching Mayor of Kingstown.
OK, we, we, we, we've white. We've finally got me.
I finally got her passed. The.
First didn't watching and it took me.
It was a hard hard watch. I tried watching it once before,

(01:57:54):
stopped at the 1st 2 episodes. This time I made it through the
third episode of season 1 and I almost stopped watching it
there. And then and.
Since then, I'll go ahead and give it one more episode, and
I'm glad that I did, because nowwe're on Season 3.
We're about to watch the Yeah, we're coming up.
On. Season 4, yeah, we're coming up
on Season 4. So like I said, Jamal mentioned,

(01:58:17):
Jamal mentioned that his favorite, his favorite show of
all time was The Wire. If you like The Wire, Jamal, you
will love Mayor of Kingstown. OK, for the second time, I don't
like, I don't like the wire. I love the Wire.
Like I said, you love the Wire. You.
Will Love Mayor of Kingstown. It's really good.

(01:58:39):
It's really freaking good. And so that's what we've been
binge watching. We've also been watching.
We can't get enough of land Man Land man.
Like I said, if you have not seen Land man, it's in the
second season. The first season was freaking
incredible. The second season is is coming

(01:59:00):
along OK. I still I give you know, I've
watched the second season. I've watched the first season
what, three times? We've watched the Seat the first
season I've never watched 3 * 3 times.
It's a really good show. It's it's, it's not even
supposed to be a comedy, but it's freaking.

(01:59:22):
Hilarious. It's yeah.
It's. So freaking funny.
It's a drama. Drama that Billy Bob Thornton,
the shit that comes out of his mouth and and his his.
His wife and his daughter. Oh my God.
Oh my God, the things that come out of their mouths just kill
you. It's.
Hilarious. Freaking hilarious so.
But that's when we've been finished watching.

(01:59:43):
Tulsa King. Oh yeah, Tulsa King that that
wrapped up last week. I don't think we haven't really
watched any movies. No.
We haven't watched any movies recently.
I was thinking about we need to go check out going to another go
see another movie. Well, we're waiting on something
good to come out. We haven't seen anything that's
that's even. But that's what we did, binge

(02:00:05):
watching, and we'll give it up to one of our guests next.
Silence. You're up.
OK, a couple things now. Well the first one is I've I've
been binge watching. I recently finished the morning
show, Apple TV show. I I had I had never seen it and

(02:00:28):
I just like finally was like, I know I'm going to and and a new
season was dropping and so I started and I was hooked on that
man, I really. Yeah, that first two seasons
were great. What is?
It the morning show. The Morning Show, yeah, really
love it. And especially man, they cover
one of the seasons they cover COVID because like it happened

(02:00:51):
in the middle, like they, they, you know, I think the second
season got delayed because COVIDhappened.
And so then you're they're dealing with it and you're like
being able to watch. It was the first show I've seen
where like you're like, Oh, shit, I know what's, I know
what's coming. Oh, they're acting like, oh, oh,
there's little hints of a virus and stuff.

(02:01:11):
Man, I love that. But then.
Let me ask you this quick, this quick question.
Have you ever seen the show The Newsroom on HBO?
I have. I've seen a few episodes, yes.
OK, I was going to ask you because I don't have Apple TV
and I've always wanted to watch The Morning Show, but I've
watched a lot of The Newsroom. I was going to ask you which one

(02:01:32):
do you? Care about that totally
different type. The big focus on the morning
Show season 1 particularly is the sexual a sexual harassment
kind of thing, like dealing withsort of like the that dirtbag
scum piece of shit from the Today show, Matt, Matt, Matt
Hour. Like, yeah, sort of they kind of

(02:01:53):
mirrored some of the stuff from that Definitely inspired by that
TV. And and then, Oh my God, this is
this is an embarrassing one, butthere's a new show on Netflix
that I just been watching. I watched an episode every
single night. It's a limited series.
It's called the Hunting Wives. It's based off of a book.

(02:02:16):
It's a trashy book. Oh my God, this is such a it's a
like such a melodrama. And I was like, I've heard I
read something that was about like, oh, this girl from pitch
perfect was on it and she's like, and I did this love scene
with somebody. I'm like, OK, I'm in for that.
I'll check that out. And then I did not know that it

(02:02:38):
was a hot lesbian action movie for one, right, Like that's and
and murder Mr. like a murder mystery.
And like I don't Plus I was like, what these why do they
keep having sex? Why, like this isn't supposed to
be pornographic, but it is definitely a it feels like a

(02:02:58):
romance novel where they're justalways like people are ending up
having sex, but there's so many plots going on and I was like,
I'm like, I need popcorn. Huh.
What? One is this.
The Hunting Wives The Hunting Wives on Netflix.
And where the? Girls are from one of the girls
from pitch perfect, not the main, not Anna, whatever her

(02:03:23):
famous one is, but a a differentone.
Trying to look it up. But it, it, it was so good.
I, I really enjoyed it and I go back and tell my wife about
like, OK, this happened and thenthis happened.
Oh, it was so fun. And I feel like I just oh, I
just saw a movie. I really liked weapons.

(02:03:47):
Oh yeah. Yeah, I've heard.
That was really good. That was a really good movie.
Yeah. It's a really good movie.
That's what I knew when I was back to being able to handle
movies and stuff is like watching that because I was
like, oh, this is a dark, we'll watch it for most of it pretty
dark. It's the thing about that movie
is, and here's the thing, and I tell everybody this, it is not

(02:04:09):
gory or anything like that. It's thrilling and it's, in my
opinion, fucking hilarious. Oh my God, yeah.
The way that they tell the storyis what's the it's what's the,
the part that it's, it's just how they tell the story.
The acting is incredible. Everybody in it is really good.

(02:04:32):
The chick from Ozark is just fantastic.
And the guy who plays Cable in the second Deadpool movie,
they're all good. But I'm watching this movie and
it's not. There's like a couple of scenes
where you're like, OK, turn yourhead.
But aside from that, you're sitting at the edge of your seat

(02:04:53):
wondering what the fuck is happening.
Where are the children? And as much as I wanted to fall
asleep watching that movie only because I was so tired, my mind
was like, you need to be invested in this.
So it's a really good movie. I think it's, I think it's
highly overrated, but it, it, it's, it's worth, it's worth

(02:05:18):
your time and money, that's for sure.
So I I agree with Silas on it's a really good movie.
OK. All right.
Carlos. Carlos, you're up.
What I've been watching, all right, I found myself most

(02:05:39):
recently back on on a tour that I, you know, whose whose work
and many works I I had given up on for a while.
But it started with a long walk and I've gotten back into the

(02:06:02):
filmography around Stephen King.Just fucking amazing.
Long Walk blew my mind. Oh, I wanted to see.
That it's so good I just a tear jerk.
I mean, not since Stand By Me had I seen and remembered,

(02:06:26):
right? Like, oh, that's right.
This guy, I don't know why we call him the King of Horror.
These are not horrors. They're weird.
They're upsetting. And one or two of them get
really creepy. You know, I don't know.

(02:06:48):
I think, I think the mind aspects of the work really,
really hit me especially hard. And so with that, I I started
thinking about like all of the work that had been done and the
directors who had done work. And of course, Kubrick's work is

(02:07:08):
my favorite, related to Stephen King with The Shining, but that
led me to looking at Eyes Wide Shut, which great Christmas
movie and just fantastic. Seems to be about Stanley

(02:07:36):
Kubrick wanting to cook Tom Cruise and look at Nicole Kidman
naked. Fine movie, fine movie.
And then went left Kubrick aloneagain and went back to Stephen
King. And so I've been watching it.

(02:07:58):
Welcome to Dairy, the IT series,which is so much fucking better
than the movies. My God, it, it just it, it
fleshes it out. It's not about jump scares and
bullshit. I I never found the clown scary,
you know, and being this age, right, like grew up and saw the

(02:08:20):
Tim Curry once, like whatever, you're not impressing me with
like this bullshit. But the the series is really
fucking phenomenal, really fucking phenomenal.
So I've been enjoying the hell out of that.
And yeah, really just, I'd, I'd been going down the, you know,
down the old autistic mind tubesof OK, let's let's look at all

(02:08:45):
the connectivity between every one of the Stephen King stories
and which ones have been told accurately on film and which
characters are in other films and which are the side
characters of films. And you know, like the kid from
from it, the author is the author who's writing The Long

(02:09:10):
Walk. And that's why the long walk
when it was published is published under a different name
and it's published by the name of the character from the stand.
Like just like God damn son. Cocaine is a powerful drug.
You were a mess and. I.
Love it. It is the most complex

(02:09:33):
interconnected universe out outside of what Marvel has been
building of late. Just so good, so rich.
Really been enjoying it. Really been enjoying it.
Well, that's I I didn't realize.That's amazing that he wrote
under the name of a character ina different book.

(02:09:55):
Slash Yeah, yeah. And that's how some of the
stories are connected. And yet those books, because
they're written by the author ofa different book, will still
reference many of the same townsand cities because now it's the
fictional author's fictional version of the fictional town.

(02:10:15):
So it just, it, it just keeps going.
It's so good. It's so good, it's so delicious.
I think that all that's like just one of those little treats
that only readers of of that genre or or that reads those
books would or would even or watch.
Those seers, those are seers. Those are people that look into

(02:10:39):
what's going on instead of just watching what's going on on the
cover or or what have you. That's that's a seer that sees,
that's looking into that's looking into the end of time and
then twins everything that's freaking.
Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's, you know, like,
that's like when we used to collect the comic books and

(02:10:59):
like, you know, you read all thenotes and like, oh, this one
connects to that one. Oh, OK.
Wait. A minute.
Hold up this one. Is that liner notes?
Wait, hold up. Who was on this record?
Wait a minute. Why?
Oh, when when did they record this?
Like, oh, I love that. That's that's that's.
That you see that well, you see that with a lot of well, when
you brought that up, the comic book series, you see that with a

(02:11:22):
lot of people who read comic books as children.
All of us there that grew up with the comic book era and they
come up with movies nowadays. A lot of us.
We know a lot of the intertwineness of of some of
these characters already. You know, you already know that

(02:11:42):
this guy has a brother that theynever mentioned.
You know, you know that Scott Summers has a brother out there.
That's happening. You know what I'm saying?
But you ain't got to ain't got to be told that, you know what
I'm saying? And so that's what's going on in
I have to be told. That because I didn't read them.
All but but that's that's that'sthat's that's what that's what

(02:12:04):
Carlos was saying. That's that's what he's saying.
So that's what's going on is it's, it's like a lot of things
when you read into and like, like, like, like.
You. Did you, did you dive into
these? And, you know, because you read
some of the books and you read these comic books and you read
this and you read that and you know from this story, he's got a

(02:12:26):
brother. You know from that story that
his mother got lost, but she's still alive somewhere else, you
know, from this story that they moved to this town where they
were, you know, this and that and the other.
And and then when they when theyput these stories together, you
know, they'll have these little pop ups here and there, you

(02:12:46):
know? Yeah, it's wild.
Stuff. Doctor Sleep is a whole sequel
to The Shining, and I didn't even know that until four years
ago. And it is so good.
So good. I didn't know there was a
sequel, but I didn't read the book.
Books I I. Watched the movie.
Yeah, this is a super movie too.They they did a really good job

(02:13:07):
integrating both the book and the film.
The first movie I didn't watch, I tried watching this the the
second one where you know, the remake of the Shining and I
didn't like it at all. It was just so convoluted.
There's a there's a remake of The Shining.
Yeah. Shit, I couldn't get past the
person with the I was. I was terrified.

(02:13:28):
After that, not the shiny, not the shiny.
Sorry, I'm thinking of somethingelse.
After those little girls walk down the hallways, I was like
hell no, I'm done. Yeah, the ghosts, those were the
first ghosts you see in the in the in the thing.
I know, right? I'm like, dude, that's it.
These little girls like red rum.Red rum.

(02:13:49):
Ever and ever and ever and ever.Yeah, no.
And then you. Yeah, yeah.
And like I yeah, no, it is, It is it's that comic book nerd
thing because it's like you start realizing which of the
images Kubrick like made reference to that were from the
book, which like he was just like, Nah, I'm not doing that,

(02:14:11):
I'm doing this. And you know, it's just it's so
good. It's so good and and it's.
It's because this era of I can't, I won't say customers,
but this era of people that's reading or watching these films

(02:14:34):
now it's, it's already been mapped out because we read comic
books and we read books and stuff as children.
So it's mapped out already for our enjoyment and our seeking.
It's what I'm going to call it. I'm going to call it seeking
because like I said, we, like you pointed out the

(02:14:55):
intertwinings. Nobody else to see that unless
you're a seeker, you know? Yeah.
Yeah, all. Right Jamal?
Well, as per mentioned, I am actually watching The Wire
again. Love that show.
Love that show season. I'm in the middle of season 1.

(02:15:17):
Speaking of gay, Speaking of gayeverywhere shoe.
I know in the wire, in my in thewire what was bad ass I.
Don't give a damn, Omar. Little man Omar.
Little. Say what you will, you know, and
it's funny, you know, it's weird.
We were talking about like blackpeople being homophobic.
It's just like all, every dude that I know that watched the

(02:15:40):
movie. Huge fan of Omar.
I'm like, well, you can't. You can't be a fan of Omar and
not be a fan of Omar, if you know what I mean.
I mean, you got to love. They're like, yo, Omar's the
shit, except for that gay shit he'd be doing.
I'm like, look, you can't. Pick and choose for it.
That's the shit. That's.
What you got to own? You got to own up to that, you

(02:16:02):
know what I'm saying? There's a scene where Stringer
Bell and Avon barks of the the the basketball gym and they're
talking about Omar. They're like, yo, man, you know,
and I'm not going to use, you know, I'm paraphrasing, but
they're like, you know, he, you know, they use the F word and
they're like, really? And then one of the guys like
he's got less pussy. He's got more use, less use for

(02:16:28):
pussy now that he's out because he has a stable of boys, you
know what I'm saying? But yeah, man, it's like
everybody's like, yeah, Omar, I'm all about Omar.
But I'm like, are you all about Omar?
Are you all about Omar? You know you I'm all about Omar.
You know, Omar was the shit, youknow, walking around Baltimore
with a shot, with a sawed off, well, with a shotgun just

(02:16:50):
whistling down the street, you know what I'm saying?
So I love that character. I like the way that they made
that just made. I mean, it's unorthodox as far
as I'm concerned, but I I'm like, I love it, you know what
I'm saying? So watching the Wire, I am
watching this show actually on Netflix that's based on a video

(02:17:11):
game called Splinter Cell death watch.
I played that game when I was a kid actually when it came out on
PlayStation and I'm watching it.Liev Shriver actually does the
voice of the main character. It's like 8 episodes is pretty
good. I'm also I'm also binge watching
the show. I don't even know if I like it.
It's on HBO Max. It's called Haha you clowns.

(02:17:37):
I don't know if I like it. I think it's the voice over is
strange, the drawing, the animation is strange.
It's about 3 kids who lost theirmom and their dad kind of takes
care of them. And I'm just like after the
second episode I was like OK, I'm out.

(02:17:57):
But then I gave it a chance and I'm like, I don't know how much
more I could watch it. I'd I'm watching also, I started
Mad Men for the first time, by the way, I have nothing but free
time on my hand. So I'm just binge watching a lot
of shit. But I'm watching Mad Men and I
fell asleep during the second inthe middle of the second

(02:18:17):
episode. But the pilot episode is
hilarious because Jon Hamm, we all you know, we all know Jon
Hamm, Don Draper, he's trying toadvertise.
Find a better way to advertise cigarettes without using the

(02:18:38):
downside of the cancer, you know, how it how it can hurt
you. So that, that.
And that's the first episode. And I'm like, you know what, I
like this, you know, the fact that he's.
Yeah, you know what I'm saying? So I was like, OK, that that's
a. That's a good first episode.
And Elizabeth Moss is in it and her character kind of stands out

(02:19:01):
to me because she's like the I don't want to say she's the UN
Kemp woman in the in the calf because she definitely stands
out. But she's learning.
She's like such an innocent woman from Brooklyn in this show
who gets this job and she's excited about having it.
But then the more prettier ladies are trying to get her to

(02:19:21):
kind of loosen up and be more like them and less like, you
know, conservative, if I if I should say.
But yeah, after watching a mad, the first episode of Mad Men,
I'm like, OK, I could, I could, you know, I'm going to give that
more of a chance and get behind that.
Another show that I, two other shows that I started watching,

(02:19:41):
both on Netflix, the show that Claire Danes is in called The
Beast Within Me. It's a miniseries.
I'm 3/4 of the way through it. Claire Danes, if you've ever
seen her on Homeland, she basically plays the same
character in this show, which iswhy I think I like it because
I'm like, Oh yeah, you, you know, you're, this is your

(02:20:04):
wheelhouse. So she plays all, I mean, almost
literally the same character in the in the minus the pill
popping, but she's in it. She's really good.
It's a good show. The beast within me.
And then I just before the podcast.
I watched this show called Hostage.
It's an English show, another miniseries and I just watched

(02:20:27):
the first episode and I think it's working on a build up.
So I'm giving I'm going to give that show a chance.
Speaking of Land Man season 2, Idid watch for the first time in
its entirety without falling asleep or passing out because of
a drug induced coma. Roadhouse because Sam Elliott's

(02:20:49):
in it and, and I watch it only be, first of all, Patrick
Swayze. Amazing.
But I watch it because Sam Elliott's in it and I wanted to
see his character in it. Very, very young Sam Elliott
still sounds the same and. And the movie got the movie.

(02:21:14):
I didn't have a problem with it,I thought it was OK Wasn't super
great but I liked it. You're talking like you should
be ashamed. Everyone loves Roadhouse.
OK, first of all, Jamal, you watched it 15 years too late.
Yeah, you watched it back. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

(02:21:35):
Oh, that's why it was the shit when it came out.
But see when I watch movies. Like that come.
On yeah when I watch a movie like that especially like you
say like I I keep in mind of thetime that it came out whenever I
talk because whenever I talk to people today like, hey, you ever
seen the movie Roadhouse? They think of the Jake

(02:21:55):
Gyllenhaal 1 and I'm like, yeah,what kind of.
Teenagers, are you hanging out with?
I didn't I love life ain't that great 2025 I I I'm very few
mirroring it. Wait a minute, wait a minute,
wait a minute, pump the brakes. Did they remake Roadhouse?
Yeah, they. Did yeah, they.
Did it was shit. Yeah, I didn't.

(02:22:16):
I didn't even. I didn't even bother watching it
because it was. With.
Jake Gyllenhaal. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, Conor McGregor. Yeah, it was terrible.
And Oh yeah, that's right. Conor McGregor was in it and he
was supposed to be the selling point.
I'm like, first of all, when I was going through the list of
Tubi movies on the way home and I saw Roadhouse was there.

(02:22:38):
I'm like, oh, that's on my list of movies that I've never seen
that we've we've talked about inthe past episodes of this
podcast. So I was like, oh, when I get
home, I'm going to watch it. And I, you know, first of all,
like I said, I liked it. I, I didn't understand why, you
know, there's some people that are like, Oh yeah, Roadhouse.

(02:23:00):
And I'm like. Really like you're older than.
Me. How did you hate Roadhouse?
But again, I, when I saw Sam Elliott's name in the in the
cast, I was like, Oh, yeah, I definitely have to watch that
because I love Sam Elliott. Didn't like the way he went out.
But you know what, it's a movie.He had it.
You know, it's, it's, it's a well, very good movie.
The one part of the movie that really struck me though was of

(02:23:25):
course, towards the end. And you know, when they when the
the bad guy, I'm like 4 shotgun blasts it took, I'm like 1 would
be enough for me. And I'm skinny.
And then they're like, bam, I'm like, OK, oh, you're going to
shoot him again just for OK, just to make sure.

(02:23:46):
Oh, wow, a third shot. Wow.
OK. Oh, he is.
Still. Up I'm like, what's in the water
in, you know, that area? And I was like 4 shotgun blasts.
I'm like, wow, OK. But yeah, so very good movie.
I, I, I liked it. I didn't, I didn't you know, I,
I like Patrick Swayze, may he rest in peace.

(02:24:07):
And Sam Elliott. There's nothing he can't do that
can't draw me to, you know, whether it's streaming, whether
it's a movie or whatever. So when I get a chance to watch,
get some of these shows that I'mwatching out the way, I'm
definitely going to watch Land Man season 2 because Sam Elliott
is, you know, actually he's fromWatch.
Season 1 first, you know. Watch.

(02:24:28):
Season 1 I I already watched season 1.
Oh, yes, OK, yeah, he did tell us.
That oh, he did OK. And, and one of the, the final
things you have to say about Roadhouse is this is the one
thing that I, I don't know that you guys would appreciate as
much as I did, but we got to seePatrick Swayze's blood, his
naked butt that way. Yes, I did not remember that.

(02:24:50):
Not, but also Kelly Kelly Lynch's butt.
We got to see that too, so. That was the part that was.
It's the scene where after they spend the night, she wakes up.
She goes out to the porch. See Patrick Swayze sitting butt
ass naked on the porch, But that's like the second nude
scene. Well, partial nude scene because

(02:25:11):
there's one where he gets out ofbed and puts his pants on.
I'm like, that's what Patrick Swayze's ass looked like because
I always wanted to know what it looked like.
But then Kelly, Kelly Lynch getsup out of bed and then like she
she's wrapped, she wraps the thethe sheet around her.
But kind of to a you could it almost looks like a gown, a
hospital gown, because you can see her butt as she's walking to

(02:25:32):
the porch to like, sit with Patrick Swayze in the middle of
the night. But no, I mean, yeah, there's I
mean, they're tasteful nude scenes.
I mean, you know, but yeah, no, it's a the fight scenes made me
laugh. The the choreography, It's it's
hilarious. I'm like, wow, Patrick Swayze
doing a Roundhouse kick in jeans.
That's the part that just I thought was comedy right there.

(02:25:54):
But nonetheless, I, I I didn't like, I like I said, I'm sitting
there watching it. I'm like, wow, this is actually
a good movie. Why do?
People. Not like this movie.
It's pretty good, actually, he did.
That Roundhouse in denim jeans before they had stretchy Jean
material. Right.
Well, what those were? Hard, crispy jeans.

(02:26:14):
Yeah, whatever it was, he was able to rally.
The five O 1 jeans. Gift.
He did that. He did that Chuck Norris
Roundhouse like it was nothing. You know what I'm saying?
So. But yeah.
I have never met a I've never met a person who hasn't liked
that movie. Yeah, me neither.
Everybody liked it that I know at least the first one.

(02:26:38):
That second one was bullshit. Yeah, I mean, and just and just
to clarify, I'm not even talkingabout this the the remake, like
fuck the remake. Like to me, as far as I'm
concerned after watching this movie, there is no remake,
right. But I'm saying like.
No, there's certain movies that is sacrilege.
It should be absolutely sacrilege.

(02:26:59):
It should be a fucking crime to try and do a remake though.
You know. That's.
What we see, well, we did see the running man, the running
man, they redid the running man.That was good.
Like I said, the running. Man was the new movie The
Running Man. But but they didn't try and do
they didn't try and read it. It was totally different, right?

(02:27:23):
It was totally different. Different storyline.
But but. Some nods and acknowledgement to
the the original. And what was really cool about
the the new running Man, like I said before, and I'll say it
again, if it's not going to ruinthe movie for you by me telling
anybody is the only thing that was really cool about the new

(02:27:43):
running man was when they showedthe money they have Arnold
Schwarzenegger from the first running man on the money he's.
The. Favorite.
Oh shit. And I was like, and so, and so I
was, and I was like, we wouldn't, I pointed it out and
I'm like, I'm like, holy shit. They got Arnold Schwarzenegger
on the money and she goes, what?I missed that.

(02:28:05):
And then they showed the money again and she goes, Oh my God,
he is on there. And that's the only time you see
it through the whole movie. And he's actually in his
jumpsuit from the first running man on the money.
Oh wow, that's dope. That's dope.
Yeah. Yeah, they did, you know, and it
was so it was like, I love how they did that.

(02:28:26):
You know when they do something like a remake of those and they.
Do those. Nods.
You know they do. Those nods of acknowledgement,
like I see you and we're. But it had enough of a different
storyline. Yeah, it was.
Different it was. AII have to say, it's the only
remake I've ever seen that I waslike that one there.

(02:28:47):
Dare I say it was better than the original?
Yep. It was all right.
Well, I'm gonna have to check itout.
It was. Yeah, it was.
Yeah, it was. Better than watching.
It was so good. I loved how they changed a lot
of you know, like they made it its own movie and it was
fantastic. It was, it was super good and I
don't like, but like I said, it should be a crime to remake a

(02:29:12):
lot of these different movies that they've made.
You know, like who the fuck remakes Roadhouse?
I mean, that's such an iconic movie.
Yeah, but that's that's when yougasping for you grasping that
straws for something to make because they can't dare have no
originality. They can't come up with anything
on their own anymore. So now they fucking well, let's

(02:29:33):
redo this. When they made it, it did pretty
good back in the 80s. So we'll we'll we'll try that
one again. No motherfucking try something
new. Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, down to IP. All righty, take us out.
All right, my favorite part, ladies and gentlemen, first of

(02:29:54):
all, Silas and Carlos, this episode, how, how can I describe
it has been very educational to say the least.
And and and and and, and Carlos,I do appreciate your insight
learning stuff. I'm like, yes, So you definitely

(02:30:15):
you, you're definitely an easy listener.
And Silas hope, you know, I hopeyour wife is doing OK, you know,
and I hope she's recovering fromher surgery.
And yes, yes, yes, I mean, and, and, and Sodas is a good dad,

(02:30:35):
you know, I, I've seen him take his, I, I ran into him at comic
cons, but I lived. In Seattle with his kid.
And you know, he, he, he, you know, he, they're so into it.
And I love it. So it's like it's always great.
So that's always it's, it's always good seeing you.
And of course, thank you for appearing on this podcast,
ladies and gentlemen. Dad has been it, as Marianne

(02:30:58):
always say, make good choices. Hey, you said it right.
Oh my. Damn.
I meant to fuck that up on purpose.
No, no, I'm kidding. No, no.
I wrote it up. He was fucking up early.
I always. Think we I think they've I do a
drinking game. I need.
I need. One good thing I I need one good
thing. For me to happen on this podcast

(02:31:19):
and for those of you who. Have are listening and you have
issues with people who are different from you, Please
remember that it is not about you and you're a terrible person
for thinking that. Aside from that, enjoy the rest
of your week. Have a good night, have a good
day and we will see you next week.

(02:31:39):
Goodbye.

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#56 - They All Learn - (Silas Lindenstein & Carlos Kareem Windham)

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#56 - They All Learn - (Silas Lindenstein & Carlos Kareem Windham)