April 28, 2024 • 26 mins
3-time Juno-winning concert composer Bekah Simms talks metal music, sonic trickery and abstraction, complete lack of natural influence, the listener experience, and so much more!
Featured music:
metamold (sextet + electronics)
Foreverdark
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hello and welcome back to Notes of the North Talks, a series where we get to know our local
(00:09):
Canadian musical talent.
Today I'm here with Bekah Simms.
Thank you so much, Bekah, for your time and for joining me today.
My pleasure.
Thanks for having me, Brianna.
First and foremost, I'd love to get to know your background a little better.
So where in Canada do you call home?
Where are you joining us from today?
Could you speak a little bit about places that hold a special place in your heart?
(00:31):
Yeah, so I am from a suburb of St. John's, Newfoundland.
I often tell people I'm from St. John's because they don't normally know the actual city
where I'm from, which is called Mount Pearl.
But we don't have a hospital there, so technically I was born in St. John's.
And I lived there until I was 23, so a significant chunk of my life there.
(00:55):
And then for nine years I was in Toronto.
So when I think of places that are home in Canada, there are two, St. John's and Toronto.
And I don't live in Canada anymore.
I'm actually based in Glasgow in the United Kingdom, in Scotland.
And I would say the city that I go back to most since I've moved is actually Montreal,
(01:17):
because a lot of my professional work happens there.
So special places in my heart, St. John's, Toronto, Montreal, in roughly that order.
Beautiful.
What's the story behind becoming a composer?
How did you start?
I think it was really just a natural extension of being a really voracious and avid listener
(01:40):
to music.
I think when there's an art form that you really enjoy being passively involved with,
it's sort of a natural thing to want to become more active over time.
I was never a very good performer.
So in terms of that being my active role, it didn't bring me a whole lot of satisfaction
to love something and be kind of bad at it, if that makes sense.
(02:02):
So when I discovered composition, it was a little bit later than a lot of my students,
for example, who start composing when they're teenagers.
I dabbled a little bit in kind of like writing additional parts for music that already existed.
So for example, I'd be listening to like a metal song, and then I would like write a
flute part into it that would just be kind of for me in my bedroom or whatever.
(02:25):
And then when I got to university, there was a new composer on faculty.
He was hired during my time there, Andrew Stanneland, and I found his music really inspiring.
It was the first time that I was like, kind of in a room with somebody whose job title
was composer and was all, you know, a living person.
I was like, oh, this is a thing people can do, like as a vocation, as an artistic focus.
(02:54):
And so I guess once I realized that it was possible, then it was like, hey, this is what
I enjoy doing.
This is where I want to go.
And so it was sort of like really casual to start with.
But then I kind of gained momentum with it very quickly.
And so the first time that I heard something of mine performed, it was like such a thrill
and made me realize that when you can ask people who have a broader skill set than yourself
(03:19):
to do things, the possibilities sonically just like blow wide open.
You're not just constricted to what you as an individual can do.
And so I found that like just really appealing and kept going with it.
Awesome.
If I asked you to describe your musical style, what would be the first three words that come
to mind?
(03:40):
Noisy, dense, and eclectic.
Ooh, could you elaborate on those a little bit?
Sure.
I'm really interested in sounds that kind of are not just at either end of the noise
pitch continuum.
I like pitches that have a little bit of noise.
(04:02):
I like noises that have a little bit of pitch.
So like most of my music would not just have people conventionally playing their instruments.
There are usually sounds that are chosen because there's this like extra strata of sound there
that's kind of infecting the expected sound that you might hear.
I like sonic trickery.
I like things that sound a little broken, things that sound a little off.
(04:25):
I mentioned earlier that I enjoyed metal music.
And so there's like a lot of distortion in most metal music.
Also some of the genres that I like listening to, especially as a teenager, were really
low fidelity, really low fi.
And so if you listen to them, there'd be all this like hiss of a tape, of a cassette tape,
you know, like just bad recording quality.
(04:47):
But I liked that.
I liked that about it.
And so trying to emulate these types of sounds, but in a live concert environment, in terms
of dense, I just like walls of sound.
I like big, thick textures.
There's a reason that I like to go see movies in IMAX.
I like just being blown away, blown away by sound.
(05:10):
And eclectic, that just comes from the fact that I listen to so many different genres
of music, have so many different influences.
And I can't imagine kind of whittling them down into like one thing that influences me.
So from piece to piece, depending on kind of what I've been listening to, or what I'm
feeling, I might just take a totally different approach.
So my music, I mean, there are always like stylistic markers that are, some of my friends
(05:37):
call them Becca-isms.
They're things that I return to because I really like the way that they sound.
But in general, I'm okay with the different pieces sounding like they could be by a different
composer potentially.
That doesn't bother me at all.
Wow.
So there are really like so many ends of the spectrum to your music.
I'm interested in extremes.
Yeah, of all kinds.
(05:57):
I love that.
Well, could you recommend some pieces of yours for first time listeners?
Some that really encapsulate the Becca-isms.
I would say one that kind of gives you like a little tasting menu, kind of everything,
but it's not too, too long is Metal Mold, which is a piece that I wrote for three different
(06:19):
ensembles.
I finished it up at the tail end of 2020, beginning of 2021.
And because it was written for three different ensembles, like three different commissioning
ensembles, I tried to kind of include things that each of those ensembles would really
be able to sink their teeth into, but those ensembles are all really different than one
another.
So like there's a whole lot of like contrasts within that piece.
(06:45):
Another one would be my cello concerto Forever Dark, which was based off of like metal quotations
and written for a really good friend of mine, Amal Averlanda.
And it's both of those pieces are studio recorded.
So I also like people to listen to my works that have like the best possible recordings
of them as well.
(07:06):
Like I, well, it's like as someone who's like a big listener of like commercially recorded
music, I really value studio recording.
Like I know a lot of people, they record for the concert stage or rather they write for
the concert stage.
That's how they like to listen to music.
For me, like my utopic version of a piece is the one that has the close spiking, is
(07:30):
the one that has the reverb, is the one that has the production on it.
And so I make a point of trying to do studio recordings and both those pieces have very
nice recordings.
Amazing.
Shifting gears a little bit.
So Canadian landscapes and natural environments often serve as a source of inspiration for
composers.
Do you find that you draw from your experiences in Canada, particularly in Newfoundland?
(07:55):
Does nature play a role in your creative process?
I don't think so.
I would, I've actually felt like when I was growing up, I was considered, I don't even
think this is like a genre of person anymore, but I was like considered like an inside kid.
Like I didn't go outside.
I would just be like playing video games in my basement when I was younger and people
(08:20):
would, you know, like neighborhood kids would like knock on the door and be like, do you
want to play spotlight or do you want to play like kick the can or whatever?
And I'd be like, nah, I'm playing PlayStation then.
So I was really more into kind of like bookish and nerdy stuff and didn't spend a lot of
time outside.
And as a teenager, that was true as well.
(08:40):
And even with my music, I don't think a lot of it has tangible external influences.
Like my influences musically comes from other music, comes from sound.
So it's not often like that I'll take visual imagery or like physical stimulation and try
and put that into music.
And so that goes for Canadian landscapes as well.
(09:01):
I know that we're very lucky in Canada to have like, I mean, Canada is big enough to
be several countries.
And so our landscape is like subsequently that buried as well.
And we're very lucky to have that.
And I enjoy that from sort of like, especially as I've gotten older, like I enjoy hiking
and being outside.
I'm no longer an indoors kid, but it doesn't function into my music.
(09:24):
Wow, that's very interesting.
Canadian music is also known for its diversity and inclusivity.
Do you try to incorporate elements of multiculturalism at all into your works?
Yeah, so I think so. I'm a settler composer.
And I think that if you want to kind of engage with other musical cultures, it kind of has
(09:47):
to be through invitation.
And so I have had some invitation to work with musicians who are from other musical
traditions than the Western European background.
So for example, I wrote for the Phoenix Ensemble, which are a mixed Eastern and Western classical
music group.
So they have Chinese classical musicians and Western classical musicians.
(10:07):
And so in that case, I wrote for Pipa and Dizi and Cello, and I really enjoyed that.
But in terms of like, where I grew up in Newfoundland in the 90s and the arts, it was in St. John's,
it was pretty culturally homogenous.
So even though Canada as a whole is pretty multicultural, I was in a place that wasn't
(10:28):
as multicultural.
And so that meant that a lot of the ways that I was engaging with like a diversity of sound
would have been subcultural rather than cultural.
So going into my like local DIY scenes, metal scenes, hardcore scenes, and kind of experiencing
a variety of like musical genre rather than a variety of musical tradition.
(10:50):
So it was like mostly like popular musical variety, if that makes sense.
And also a lot of the folk music in Newfoundland is of an Irish background.
So even some of the metal would still have like mandolin in it, for example, like there
was some genre crossover that was happening there.
(11:10):
And metal is actually a really common genre for genre crossover, especially with folk
music, which is why you'll get like Mongolian metal bands that use like Jaw Harp, for example.
So I was really into those scenes and my music has a lot of pop music influence in it.
But I don't, yeah, I think once you're trained in Western classical music and you realize
(11:36):
the scope of classical musics in general, you don't want to just have like a surface
level understanding of another musical tradition and try and fold it in to it.
It doesn't feel like a like a respectful way to engage with another musical tradition.
So yeah, my rule of thumb is like buy, buy invitation only.
I like that.
(11:57):
Well, how do you navigate the balance between staying true to your artistic visions and
adapting to say practical considerations or what audiences prefer to hear?
I never think about what audiences prefer to hear.
I think it's a losing battle because you never know who your audience really is on any night
(12:17):
of the week, any city in the country that maybe your piece is being played.
It's a different group of people are going to show up.
And I think to try and assume that there'll be something that universally they won't like
or that they'll find interesting or that they'll find meaningful, it's just not part of my
creative process, basically.
(12:38):
I like to think of myself as the audience member because I am an audience member.
I go to concerts all the time.
So if somebody in that audience is like me and I write for myself, then there's going
to be somebody in that audience who's going to appreciate it.
And I think a good rule of thumb is to realize that if you're doing something with meaning
(12:59):
and that is thoughtful and distinct, not everybody is going to like it.
And so writing something in mind that it's fine if somebody hates it, it's fine if 20%
of people hate it.
It takes a lot of the pressure off.
And it means that it's a lot easier to stay true to what you want to do if you just remember
(13:21):
that you go and you listen to music and you like music too.
And that writing what you like is not alienating to the audience because you are part of the
audience and people like you are part of the audience.
And so I've never been very self-conscious about writing stuff that people won't like.
And I've always written stuff that people don't like.
So I think that it's more about what will create a reaction.
(13:50):
Because I think it's also kind of interesting and important for people to watch things,
to listen to things, to read things that they don't necessarily like.
That can be a good experience for an audience as a member too because you end up thinking,
well, why didn't I like that?
Why didn't that work?
And in some ways that can actually occupy more mental space than the pieces that were
just fine.
You know?
(14:11):
Yeah, for sure.
And many of your pieces have intriguing titles too.
And they sometimes seem to hint at maybe deeper meanings.
Can you walk us through your process of titling compositions and how you feel titles contribute
to a listener's experience?
Yes, a lot of the times I'll start with a title because I'll have a broad concept of
(14:37):
the sounds at hand and a basic adjective or descriptor for them.
And other times the title might come at the very end or it'll come to the middle of the
process when I kind of have an idea of the overall character.
I try not to give too much away with a title.
I feel the same way about a program note.
(14:58):
I like listeners to get most of the information that they need or want through listening to
the piece itself and not through this information that's kind of external to it.
I was recently in Vienna at this conference where they had presented my music on this
program that was kind of dissected a little bit by this group of musicologists that were
(15:19):
there.
And one of the things they were talking about was how they felt.
This is a perspective that I had never heard in Canada before.
They felt that the titles and the program notes really put the pieces into a certain
box and told them how to listen and told them what they were supposed to experience with
it.
(15:40):
And they found it constrictive that they wished that they had heard the music without any
program notes and maybe at the extreme end of things without any titles.
And I think in some ways I kind of resonate with that idea a little bit where it's like
those things are just secondary to the sonic experience.
At least with my music, for some people their music is really narrative.
(16:02):
They want to get something super specific across.
In my opinion, music is such an abstract art.
If you want to get something really specific across, try like theater or film where you
can actually show things to people.
With music, it's best doing what it does naturally, which is an abstraction.
It's hard to write something and say, you're supposed to see this.
(16:26):
Because if you don't tell anybody that, you'll have six people coming up to you and saying
they saw dramatically different things.
Because I think it was at my cello concerto where somebody came up to me and told me they
were like, it was about a whale.
And I was like, it can be about a whale for you for sure.
The fact that it's not about anything means that it can be about anything.
(16:47):
It can be about everything to each audience member.
There's no right or wrong way to hear it.
And so I try and keep my titles and my program notes ambiguous enough that people can find
their own way into it and their own meaning and form their own imagery about it.
Sometimes it'll just be a bit of a reveal about how I was feeling at the time or something
(17:10):
in my life, but not giving too much information and letting the audience find their own way
into the work.
I love that.
There are so many routes of interpretation with music, like you mentioned.
One of them are abstract art forms for sure, because you're only limited to one sense,
I guess.
Yeah, and also once that moment is passed, it's passed.
(17:33):
When you're looking at a painting, you can stand there and have it all in its totality,
drink it all in for as long as you want.
You can stand in front of that picture for five minutes or five seconds.
With a piece of music, once that little bit is gone, in the ether, it's only what you
remember from it, and then there's something else happening in front of you, right?
Then there's that experience of experiencing the piece for the first time too.
(17:58):
Yeah, absolutely.
All right, interesting.
How do you see Canada's music scene on the global stage?
How does Canada's cultural scene stand apart from others?
Well, it's challenging because Canada is a good number of urban centers rather than
a singular national voice.
(18:20):
There are some countries where there might be one main conservatory or a national aesthetic
or style that was established maybe 40, 50 years ago.
Canada doesn't have a genre of music that it really came up with itself.
There's not an originating sound.
(18:42):
There are some folk sounds and some traditional musics that have, but when you think of Western
classical music, it was imported from Europe, right?
In terms of how we are on the world stage, there are composers that there's a broad
approach in Montreal versus Toronto versus Vancouver versus people who work in the middle
(19:06):
of nowhere who don't have an associated community or scene that are doing something totally
distinct and different from everybody around them.
So I don't consider Canada to have a unified sound.
In terms of what gets out there to other countries.
So I live in the UK.
I have quite a number of pieces that are played in different parts of Europe and the States.
(19:29):
It can be unpredictable where it will be picked up, where it will resonate with people.
There are some composers who stay in Canada whose music is played quite frequently outside
of Canada.
People like Nicole Lize, for example, Anasakalovic.
But a lot of composers have moved to the UK or they are in Canada, but their music is
(19:55):
more played in the UK than it is back in Canada.
And I think that, yeah, there's nothing singular there.
I think it's hard to break out of Canada as a Canadian composer.
Yeah, I think it's very challenging actually.
And that's because of the way, in some ways, that funding works.
(20:18):
A lot of the time ensembles who present your music or commission your music, they get funding
from their municipalities or their country to present music.
So when the Dutch government gets money to do a concert in the Netherlands, they want
them to support Dutch composers.
So if they're going to bring in a Canadian composer, that Canadian composer has to be
(20:40):
a rising shooting star, big deal in order to get programmed.
And so it's the same thing in Canada where we don't program a whole lot of American composers
or Japanese composers unless there's some sort of...
A lot of times there'll be a co-presentation or they're working with an ensemble from a
(21:03):
different country or whatever.
I think that's part of the problem with arts funding is that it does mean that everything's
quite regional feeling unless you're one of the top 10, 20 composers in the world.
Well, what do you hope to see for the future music on Canada's scene?
Well, I would love to see more of it performed outside Canada.
(21:26):
Largely because of what I was just saying, I don't think it gets enough exposure outside
the country, which is really too bad.
I think that I would like everywhere, I would love for Western classical, contemporary classical
music to just be less conservative, I guess, to be more open to cross-cultural transmission,
(21:51):
cross-genre transmission, welcome people and practices that don't use notation, welcome
people and practices that are not steeped in that 400 year history.
A lot of my students come from pop background, Indian classical background, and they're using
it as a fusion thing.
And I think that that is completely legitimate.
(22:14):
And sometimes I feel like people are slow to recognize the legitimacy of that approach.
And I think the less fussy we get about genre or what counts as classical music, the better
we'll be for it and the more interesting the music will be and the more genuine the music
will be.
Because it's so deeply rooted.
(22:35):
So I guess that transition or adjustment is also slow to take form.
It's true.
And there's also, again, it's the most boring part of the arts, but there's financial reasons
for that too, right?
Because it's like when you're doing your programming, you're so reliant on donors and you're so
that means that you're also reliant on the supposed taste of donors and where is that
(22:57):
money coming from and how do you keep them happy?
And if they're there, they're coming to the symphony for Brahms, then they might be upset
that there's a turntable concerto, you know what I mean?
There's that element.
And so if we could break free from that, yeah, just really being dependent on that sort of
(23:19):
archaic form of funding, it would burst open a lot of doors, I think.
Are there any artistic elements that you feel are really up and coming in contemporary music,
like specific techniques or styles?
I think I'm just seeing a lot more interdisciplinary stuff, a lot more electronic stuff, things
(23:40):
that will bring in like ambient music or electronica, video music, people who will do like more
production style stuff into classical music, which I think is, again, it's more about this
sort of like genre-less cross genre approach.
I think it's kind of a hot thing right now.
(24:02):
It's certainly hot in the UK.
Just like loads of sampling and synthesizers and like lots of electronic stuff.
And electronic music has always been a part of Western art music, like since the 50s,
since music concrets, but it was like a very academic discipline.
You were looking at tape music that was being split apart and you were taking like the sounds
(24:24):
of a kitchen sink and making the sound of like a water droplet be the music.
And so it's still kind of, it's not connected to popular music at all.
Whereas now I think a lot of the electronic crossover stuff is deeply connected to like
popular music approaches.
And I think it's, yeah, if it's not up and coming, it's already here.
(24:45):
Very cool.
Noel, do you have anything exciting up and coming, like upcoming projects we should look
forward to?
Yeah, so I have a bit, my biggest piece I've ever written in terms of scope called Cryptid,
it's about 32 minutes long, is premiering, oh geez, that's so soon, April 27th in Dublin
(25:05):
as part of New Music Dublin, which I'm really excited about.
I also have a piece being played, I think, oh my God, I have to check my calendar, on
the 19th, on Friday the 19th with Quasar Saxophone Quartet, so it's four saxophones and electronics.
And then I also have the premiere of this big spring quartet I wrote for the Buccini
Quartet.
(25:26):
They're doing, they did the partial version, the first two movements in Montreal in February,
and they're doing the full four movement version in May in Cologne, and that should be very
exciting.
That's amazing.
Well, this has been wonderful, and that brings us to the end of today's episode.
So thank you so much again, Becca, for taking the time to chat and for sharing such incredible
(25:49):
pieces of your heart and art.
Thank you so much.
And until next time, folks, keep listening for the Notes of the North.
Hello and welcome back to Notes of the North Talks, a series where we get to know our local
(00:09):
Canadian musical talent.
Today I'm here with Bekah Simms.
Thank you so much, Bekah, for your time and for joining me today.
My pleasure.
Thanks for having me, Brianna.
First and foremost, I'd love to get to know your background a little better.
So where in Canada do you call home?
Where are you joining us from today?
Could you speak a little bit about places that hold a special place in your heart?
(00:31):
Yeah, so I am from a suburb of St. John's, Newfoundland.
I often tell people I'm from St. John's because they don't normally know the actual city
where I'm from, which is called Mount Pearl.
But we don't have a hospital there, so technically I was born in St. John's.
And I lived there until I was 23, so a significant chunk of my life there.
(00:55):
And then for nine years I was in Toronto.
So when I think of places that are home in Canada, there are two, St. John's and Toronto.
And I don't live in Canada anymore.
I'm actually based in Glasgow in the United Kingdom, in Scotland.
And I would say the city that I go back to most since I've moved is actually Montreal,
(01:17):
because a lot of my professional work happens there.
So special places in my heart, St. John's, Toronto, Montreal, in roughly that order.
Beautiful.
What's the story behind becoming a composer?
How did you start?
I think it was really just a natural extension of being a really voracious and avid listener
(01:40):
to music.
I think when there's an art form that you really enjoy being passively involved with,
it's sort of a natural thing to want to become more active over time.
I was never a very good performer.
So in terms of that being my active role, it didn't bring me a whole lot of satisfaction
to love something and be kind of bad at it, if that makes sense.
(02:02):
So when I discovered composition, it was a little bit later than a lot of my students,
for example, who start composing when they're teenagers.
I dabbled a little bit in kind of like writing additional parts for music that already existed.
So for example, I'd be listening to like a metal song, and then I would like write a
flute part into it that would just be kind of for me in my bedroom or whatever.
(02:25):
And then when I got to university, there was a new composer on faculty.
He was hired during my time there, Andrew Stanneland, and I found his music really inspiring.
It was the first time that I was like, kind of in a room with somebody whose job title
was composer and was all, you know, a living person.
I was like, oh, this is a thing people can do, like as a vocation, as an artistic focus.
(02:54):
And so I guess once I realized that it was possible, then it was like, hey, this is what
I enjoy doing.
This is where I want to go.
And so it was sort of like really casual to start with.
But then I kind of gained momentum with it very quickly.
And so the first time that I heard something of mine performed, it was like such a thrill
and made me realize that when you can ask people who have a broader skill set than yourself
(03:19):
to do things, the possibilities sonically just like blow wide open.
You're not just constricted to what you as an individual can do.
And so I found that like just really appealing and kept going with it.
Awesome.
If I asked you to describe your musical style, what would be the first three words that come
to mind?
(03:40):
Noisy, dense, and eclectic.
Ooh, could you elaborate on those a little bit?
Sure.
I'm really interested in sounds that kind of are not just at either end of the noise
pitch continuum.
I like pitches that have a little bit of noise.
(04:02):
I like noises that have a little bit of pitch.
So like most of my music would not just have people conventionally playing their instruments.
There are usually sounds that are chosen because there's this like extra strata of sound there
that's kind of infecting the expected sound that you might hear.
I like sonic trickery.
I like things that sound a little broken, things that sound a little off.
(04:25):
I mentioned earlier that I enjoyed metal music.
And so there's like a lot of distortion in most metal music.
Also some of the genres that I like listening to, especially as a teenager, were really
low fidelity, really low fi.
And so if you listen to them, there'd be all this like hiss of a tape, of a cassette tape,
you know, like just bad recording quality.
(04:47):
But I liked that.
I liked that about it.
And so trying to emulate these types of sounds, but in a live concert environment, in terms
of dense, I just like walls of sound.
I like big, thick textures.
There's a reason that I like to go see movies in IMAX.
I like just being blown away, blown away by sound.
(05:10):
And eclectic, that just comes from the fact that I listen to so many different genres
of music, have so many different influences.
And I can't imagine kind of whittling them down into like one thing that influences me.
So from piece to piece, depending on kind of what I've been listening to, or what I'm
feeling, I might just take a totally different approach.
So my music, I mean, there are always like stylistic markers that are, some of my friends
(05:37):
call them Becca-isms.
They're things that I return to because I really like the way that they sound.
But in general, I'm okay with the different pieces sounding like they could be by a different
composer potentially.
That doesn't bother me at all.
Wow.
So there are really like so many ends of the spectrum to your music.
I'm interested in extremes.
Yeah, of all kinds.
(05:57):
I love that.
Well, could you recommend some pieces of yours for first time listeners?
Some that really encapsulate the Becca-isms.
I would say one that kind of gives you like a little tasting menu, kind of everything,
but it's not too, too long is Metal Mold, which is a piece that I wrote for three different
(06:19):
ensembles.
I finished it up at the tail end of 2020, beginning of 2021.
And because it was written for three different ensembles, like three different commissioning
ensembles, I tried to kind of include things that each of those ensembles would really
be able to sink their teeth into, but those ensembles are all really different than one
another.
So like there's a whole lot of like contrasts within that piece.
(06:45):
Another one would be my cello concerto Forever Dark, which was based off of like metal quotations
and written for a really good friend of mine, Amal Averlanda.
And it's both of those pieces are studio recorded.
So I also like people to listen to my works that have like the best possible recordings
of them as well.
(07:06):
Like I, well, it's like as someone who's like a big listener of like commercially recorded
music, I really value studio recording.
Like I know a lot of people, they record for the concert stage or rather they write for
the concert stage.
That's how they like to listen to music.
For me, like my utopic version of a piece is the one that has the close spiking, is
(07:30):
the one that has the reverb, is the one that has the production on it.
And so I make a point of trying to do studio recordings and both those pieces have very
nice recordings.
Amazing.
Shifting gears a little bit.
So Canadian landscapes and natural environments often serve as a source of inspiration for
composers.
Do you find that you draw from your experiences in Canada, particularly in Newfoundland?
(07:55):
Does nature play a role in your creative process?
I don't think so.
I would, I've actually felt like when I was growing up, I was considered, I don't even
think this is like a genre of person anymore, but I was like considered like an inside kid.
Like I didn't go outside.
I would just be like playing video games in my basement when I was younger and people
(08:20):
would, you know, like neighborhood kids would like knock on the door and be like, do you
want to play spotlight or do you want to play like kick the can or whatever?
And I'd be like, nah, I'm playing PlayStation then.
So I was really more into kind of like bookish and nerdy stuff and didn't spend a lot of
time outside.
And as a teenager, that was true as well.
(08:40):
And even with my music, I don't think a lot of it has tangible external influences.
Like my influences musically comes from other music, comes from sound.
So it's not often like that I'll take visual imagery or like physical stimulation and try
and put that into music.
And so that goes for Canadian landscapes as well.
(09:01):
I know that we're very lucky in Canada to have like, I mean, Canada is big enough to
be several countries.
And so our landscape is like subsequently that buried as well.
And we're very lucky to have that.
And I enjoy that from sort of like, especially as I've gotten older, like I enjoy hiking
and being outside.
I'm no longer an indoors kid, but it doesn't function into my music.
(09:24):
Wow, that's very interesting.
Canadian music is also known for its diversity and inclusivity.
Do you try to incorporate elements of multiculturalism at all into your works?
Yeah, so I think so. I'm a settler composer.
And I think that if you want to kind of engage with other musical cultures, it kind of has
(09:47):
to be through invitation.
And so I have had some invitation to work with musicians who are from other musical
traditions than the Western European background.
So for example, I wrote for the Phoenix Ensemble, which are a mixed Eastern and Western classical
music group.
So they have Chinese classical musicians and Western classical musicians.
(10:07):
And so in that case, I wrote for Pipa and Dizi and Cello, and I really enjoyed that.
But in terms of like, where I grew up in Newfoundland in the 90s and the arts, it was in St. John's,
it was pretty culturally homogenous.
So even though Canada as a whole is pretty multicultural, I was in a place that wasn't
(10:28):
as multicultural.
And so that meant that a lot of the ways that I was engaging with like a diversity of sound
would have been subcultural rather than cultural.
So going into my like local DIY scenes, metal scenes, hardcore scenes, and kind of experiencing
a variety of like musical genre rather than a variety of musical tradition.
(10:50):
So it was like mostly like popular musical variety, if that makes sense.
And also a lot of the folk music in Newfoundland is of an Irish background.
So even some of the metal would still have like mandolin in it, for example, like there
was some genre crossover that was happening there.
(11:10):
And metal is actually a really common genre for genre crossover, especially with folk
music, which is why you'll get like Mongolian metal bands that use like Jaw Harp, for example.
So I was really into those scenes and my music has a lot of pop music influence in it.
But I don't, yeah, I think once you're trained in Western classical music and you realize
(11:36):
the scope of classical musics in general, you don't want to just have like a surface
level understanding of another musical tradition and try and fold it in to it.
It doesn't feel like a like a respectful way to engage with another musical tradition.
So yeah, my rule of thumb is like buy, buy invitation only.
I like that.
(11:57):
Well, how do you navigate the balance between staying true to your artistic visions and
adapting to say practical considerations or what audiences prefer to hear?
I never think about what audiences prefer to hear.
I think it's a losing battle because you never know who your audience really is on any night
(12:17):
of the week, any city in the country that maybe your piece is being played.
It's a different group of people are going to show up.
And I think to try and assume that there'll be something that universally they won't like
or that they'll find interesting or that they'll find meaningful, it's just not part of my
creative process, basically.
(12:38):
I like to think of myself as the audience member because I am an audience member.
I go to concerts all the time.
So if somebody in that audience is like me and I write for myself, then there's going
to be somebody in that audience who's going to appreciate it.
And I think a good rule of thumb is to realize that if you're doing something with meaning
(12:59):
and that is thoughtful and distinct, not everybody is going to like it.
And so writing something in mind that it's fine if somebody hates it, it's fine if 20%
of people hate it.
It takes a lot of the pressure off.
And it means that it's a lot easier to stay true to what you want to do if you just remember
(13:21):
that you go and you listen to music and you like music too.
And that writing what you like is not alienating to the audience because you are part of the
audience and people like you are part of the audience.
And so I've never been very self-conscious about writing stuff that people won't like.
And I've always written stuff that people don't like.
So I think that it's more about what will create a reaction.
(13:50):
Because I think it's also kind of interesting and important for people to watch things,
to listen to things, to read things that they don't necessarily like.
That can be a good experience for an audience as a member too because you end up thinking,
well, why didn't I like that?
Why didn't that work?
And in some ways that can actually occupy more mental space than the pieces that were
just fine.
You know?
(14:11):
Yeah, for sure.
And many of your pieces have intriguing titles too.
And they sometimes seem to hint at maybe deeper meanings.
Can you walk us through your process of titling compositions and how you feel titles contribute
to a listener's experience?
Yes, a lot of the times I'll start with a title because I'll have a broad concept of
(14:37):
the sounds at hand and a basic adjective or descriptor for them.
And other times the title might come at the very end or it'll come to the middle of the
process when I kind of have an idea of the overall character.
I try not to give too much away with a title.
I feel the same way about a program note.
(14:58):
I like listeners to get most of the information that they need or want through listening to
the piece itself and not through this information that's kind of external to it.
I was recently in Vienna at this conference where they had presented my music on this
program that was kind of dissected a little bit by this group of musicologists that were
(15:19):
there.
And one of the things they were talking about was how they felt.
This is a perspective that I had never heard in Canada before.
They felt that the titles and the program notes really put the pieces into a certain
box and told them how to listen and told them what they were supposed to experience with
it.
(15:40):
And they found it constrictive that they wished that they had heard the music without any
program notes and maybe at the extreme end of things without any titles.
And I think in some ways I kind of resonate with that idea a little bit where it's like
those things are just secondary to the sonic experience.
At least with my music, for some people their music is really narrative.
(16:02):
They want to get something super specific across.
In my opinion, music is such an abstract art.
If you want to get something really specific across, try like theater or film where you
can actually show things to people.
With music, it's best doing what it does naturally, which is an abstraction.
It's hard to write something and say, you're supposed to see this.
(16:26):
Because if you don't tell anybody that, you'll have six people coming up to you and saying
they saw dramatically different things.
Because I think it was at my cello concerto where somebody came up to me and told me they
were like, it was about a whale.
And I was like, it can be about a whale for you for sure.
The fact that it's not about anything means that it can be about anything.
(16:47):
It can be about everything to each audience member.
There's no right or wrong way to hear it.
And so I try and keep my titles and my program notes ambiguous enough that people can find
their own way into it and their own meaning and form their own imagery about it.
Sometimes it'll just be a bit of a reveal about how I was feeling at the time or something
(17:10):
in my life, but not giving too much information and letting the audience find their own way
into the work.
I love that.
There are so many routes of interpretation with music, like you mentioned.
One of them are abstract art forms for sure, because you're only limited to one sense,
I guess.
Yeah, and also once that moment is passed, it's passed.
(17:33):
When you're looking at a painting, you can stand there and have it all in its totality,
drink it all in for as long as you want.
You can stand in front of that picture for five minutes or five seconds.
With a piece of music, once that little bit is gone, in the ether, it's only what you
remember from it, and then there's something else happening in front of you, right?
Then there's that experience of experiencing the piece for the first time too.
(17:58):
Yeah, absolutely.
All right, interesting.
How do you see Canada's music scene on the global stage?
How does Canada's cultural scene stand apart from others?
Well, it's challenging because Canada is a good number of urban centers rather than
a singular national voice.
(18:20):
There are some countries where there might be one main conservatory or a national aesthetic
or style that was established maybe 40, 50 years ago.
Canada doesn't have a genre of music that it really came up with itself.
There's not an originating sound.
(18:42):
There are some folk sounds and some traditional musics that have, but when you think of Western
classical music, it was imported from Europe, right?
In terms of how we are on the world stage, there are composers that there's a broad
approach in Montreal versus Toronto versus Vancouver versus people who work in the middle
(19:06):
of nowhere who don't have an associated community or scene that are doing something totally
distinct and different from everybody around them.
So I don't consider Canada to have a unified sound.
In terms of what gets out there to other countries.
So I live in the UK.
I have quite a number of pieces that are played in different parts of Europe and the States.
(19:29):
It can be unpredictable where it will be picked up, where it will resonate with people.
There are some composers who stay in Canada whose music is played quite frequently outside
of Canada.
People like Nicole Lize, for example, Anasakalovic.
But a lot of composers have moved to the UK or they are in Canada, but their music is
(19:55):
more played in the UK than it is back in Canada.
And I think that, yeah, there's nothing singular there.
I think it's hard to break out of Canada as a Canadian composer.
Yeah, I think it's very challenging actually.
And that's because of the way, in some ways, that funding works.
(20:18):
A lot of the time ensembles who present your music or commission your music, they get funding
from their municipalities or their country to present music.
So when the Dutch government gets money to do a concert in the Netherlands, they want
them to support Dutch composers.
So if they're going to bring in a Canadian composer, that Canadian composer has to be
(20:40):
a rising shooting star, big deal in order to get programmed.
And so it's the same thing in Canada where we don't program a whole lot of American composers
or Japanese composers unless there's some sort of...
A lot of times there'll be a co-presentation or they're working with an ensemble from a
(21:03):
different country or whatever.
I think that's part of the problem with arts funding is that it does mean that everything's
quite regional feeling unless you're one of the top 10, 20 composers in the world.
Well, what do you hope to see for the future music on Canada's scene?
Well, I would love to see more of it performed outside Canada.
(21:26):
Largely because of what I was just saying, I don't think it gets enough exposure outside
the country, which is really too bad.
I think that I would like everywhere, I would love for Western classical, contemporary classical
music to just be less conservative, I guess, to be more open to cross-cultural transmission,
(21:51):
cross-genre transmission, welcome people and practices that don't use notation, welcome
people and practices that are not steeped in that 400 year history.
A lot of my students come from pop background, Indian classical background, and they're using
it as a fusion thing.
And I think that that is completely legitimate.
(22:14):
And sometimes I feel like people are slow to recognize the legitimacy of that approach.
And I think the less fussy we get about genre or what counts as classical music, the better
we'll be for it and the more interesting the music will be and the more genuine the music
will be.
Because it's so deeply rooted.
(22:35):
So I guess that transition or adjustment is also slow to take form.
It's true.
And there's also, again, it's the most boring part of the arts, but there's financial reasons
for that too, right?
Because it's like when you're doing your programming, you're so reliant on donors and you're so
that means that you're also reliant on the supposed taste of donors and where is that
(22:57):
money coming from and how do you keep them happy?
And if they're there, they're coming to the symphony for Brahms, then they might be upset
that there's a turntable concerto, you know what I mean?
There's that element.
And so if we could break free from that, yeah, just really being dependent on that sort of
(23:19):
archaic form of funding, it would burst open a lot of doors, I think.
Are there any artistic elements that you feel are really up and coming in contemporary music,
like specific techniques or styles?
I think I'm just seeing a lot more interdisciplinary stuff, a lot more electronic stuff, things
(23:40):
that will bring in like ambient music or electronica, video music, people who will do like more
production style stuff into classical music, which I think is, again, it's more about this
sort of like genre-less cross genre approach.
I think it's kind of a hot thing right now.
(24:02):
It's certainly hot in the UK.
Just like loads of sampling and synthesizers and like lots of electronic stuff.
And electronic music has always been a part of Western art music, like since the 50s,
since music concrets, but it was like a very academic discipline.
You were looking at tape music that was being split apart and you were taking like the sounds
(24:24):
of a kitchen sink and making the sound of like a water droplet be the music.
And so it's still kind of, it's not connected to popular music at all.
Whereas now I think a lot of the electronic crossover stuff is deeply connected to like
popular music approaches.
And I think it's, yeah, if it's not up and coming, it's already here.
(24:45):
Very cool.
Noel, do you have anything exciting up and coming, like upcoming projects we should look
forward to?
Yeah, so I have a bit, my biggest piece I've ever written in terms of scope called Cryptid,
it's about 32 minutes long, is premiering, oh geez, that's so soon, April 27th in Dublin
(25:05):
as part of New Music Dublin, which I'm really excited about.
I also have a piece being played, I think, oh my God, I have to check my calendar, on
the 19th, on Friday the 19th with Quasar Saxophone Quartet, so it's four saxophones and electronics.
And then I also have the premiere of this big spring quartet I wrote for the Buccini
Quartet.
(25:26):
They're doing, they did the partial version, the first two movements in Montreal in February,
and they're doing the full four movement version in May in Cologne, and that should be very
exciting.
That's amazing.
Well, this has been wonderful, and that brings us to the end of today's episode.
So thank you so much again, Becca, for taking the time to chat and for sharing such incredible
(25:49):
pieces of your heart and art.
Thank you so much.
And until next time, folks, keep listening for the Notes of the North.
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