June 6, 2024 • 20 mins
Dinuk Wijeratne talks composing for the performers rather than the listener, the tripartite relationship of creation, the exciting future of concert programming, and more!
Featured music:
Gajaga Vannama
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hello and welcome to Notes of the North Talks, a series where we get to know our local Canadian
(00:11):
musical talent.
Today I am here with Dinuk Wijeratne.
Thank you so much, Dinuk, for joining me today.
It's a pleasure, Brianna.
Good to be here.
Let's get right into it.
So Dinuk, where are you joining us from today?
Where in Canada do you call home?
At the moment, Ottawa.
So we moved to Ottawa from Toronto in the middle of the pandemic in 2021.
(00:34):
I was freelancing in Toronto and then I got a job at the University of Ottawa.
And I still freelance, so I'm juggling many things at the moment.
Awesome.
Is there any place else that holds a special place in your heart and that may have shaped
your work?
Yeah, I mean, actually, it depends on how far back you want to go.
(00:54):
But when I moved to Canada, I moved to Halifax, Nova Scotia.
And that was in 2005.
And Halifax, I mean, you know, my mom still lives there.
I mean, it feels like our second home.
And so just being in the Maritimes, you know, that has very special meaning for us.
(01:17):
But if you go back further, I was born in Sri Lanka.
Sadly, I left when I was four.
So there is a certain kind of pull, but a very sort of distant one.
It's more like this sort of a place that you want to get to know, you know.
And I suppose I use my music to try and explore that.
(01:37):
And then I grew up in the Middle East in Dubai.
And the definition of home for Dubai, I guess, is more like a sort of memory, you know.
And again, that has found its way into my music.
And then as a student, I spent time in the UK and the US before coming to Canada.
Wow.
So such an international palette.
(01:58):
Awesome.
Well, yeah, let's get right into it.
So your compositions reflect a blend of Canadian and Sri Lankan cultural influences.
Could you share with us an instance where this heritage has directly inspired a musical
piece and how you translated, I guess, cultural elements into music?
Yeah, and I would even add to that influences of the Middle East.
(02:21):
Because when I grew up in Dubai, I mean, I was there from, you know, the age of four
until I went to college, right?
So four to 18.
And Dubai at the time was a melting pot of South Asian and Middle Eastern culture and
many other cultures, Western culture.
You know, I had a Western education.
I learned Western music.
(02:42):
So all of the music that comes out now is predominantly this kind of mix of all of these
styles.
And so I would say that every single piece that I write now is some kind of autobiographical
exploration of all of these things.
But more explicitly, I have written this Sri Lankan inspired piece, which uses as its
(03:06):
source material a folk melody.
It's called Gajaga Vannama.
It's about the ceremonial elephant.
I wrote that in 2019.
So that one, I really went deep into Sri Lankan ethnomusicology and influences.
So it's I guess it's a mix of some very some pieces which are explicitly about these influences
(03:30):
and some where the influences are just subconscious.
As a composer, conductor and pianist, you had a multifaceted career as well.
So how do you balance these different roles?
And do you find that each role informs the others in unexpected ways?
Actually, yeah, the answer is I balance these with great difficulty.
(03:52):
And now that I'm a father of a two year old, time management is is even more of a pressing
concern.
But I've always been a performer as well as a composer.
And it seems that my life is just kind of balancing a balancing act between these two
things.
And yes, to answer your second question, there is definitely, definitely a symbiosis between
(04:18):
being a composer and a performer.
And I think, you know, on the one hand, I just think sometimes, oh, it's so difficult
to sort of balance the two.
But then I tell myself, you know, to look at the advantages, because I like to say that
I aspire to be a better composer because I'm a performer, and then vice versa.
(04:39):
You know, I can be a better performer, hopefully, because I'm so used to writing music.
Wonderful.
How do you approach interpreting your own compositions on the conductor's platform?
Do you find that as a composer, your conducting styles influence?
If I'm studying my own music, and now, you know, when I conduct programs, people ask
(05:01):
me to bring my own music.
So my music is mixed in with repertoire and everything.
I try to sort of be as objective as possible.
So then when I study my own score, I'm just taking another score off the pile and trying
to study it right.
But the advantage is I know the backstory of the music probably better than anyone else.
(05:21):
So I guess on the one hand, one has an advantage about the sort of psychology and the meaning
of the music.
But on the other hand, from a technical point of view, you still have to do the same homework
as you would for Beethoven or anything else.
Interesting.
Yeah, well, you've collaborated with a diverse range of musicians too, from composing for
(05:42):
Yo-Yo Ma, I think I saw, to the Silk Road Ensemble.
How do you ensure that all collaborators' voices are heard in the final result?
That's a great question because it is very context specific.
So I can give you an example.
If you know, if you're writing a piece for orchestra, the nature of this sort of niche
(06:02):
of the industry is that you spend all this time writing for an instrument which has so
many parts, you know, let's say 60 people or something.
And because there is typically very little time to get the music rehearsed, you just
have to show up with the music fully cleaned up and triple checked.
(06:28):
And then they might rehearse the piece for about 45 minutes and then you've just got
a hope for the best, right?
So if you're then asking, is this a kind of context where it's conducive to really getting
to know every single musician in the orchestra in a collaborative way, it's just not going
to happen.
You know, it's just the nature of orchestral music.
On the other hand, at the moment, to give you an example, you know, I'm working on a
(06:52):
two, three year project.
I'm working on my song cycle and it has been very collaborative.
So I've been able to really get to know the poet, get to know the singer.
I know the musicians in the ensemble very well.
We've had workshop time.
So in that sense, it's more like theater.
You know, you get this sort of workshop time with, you know, acting buddies or something
(07:13):
like that.
And so it really depends on the context.
Sometimes you get a lot, sometimes you get a little and you've just got to make the best
of it.
I think, you know, if you are writing a piece of music where you just know you have to hand
it in and really hope for the best, what I try to do is I try to imagine, I try to have
(07:33):
as much empathy as possible for every person on every single staff.
So what is their experience when they're looking at their corner of the music?
And so, you know, it's a poor substitute for getting to know someone as a human being,
but at least it puts you in a position of some kind of empathy for the player.
(07:53):
Interesting.
So it's almost idiomatic to each person in a sense.
And each context, exactly.
Awesome.
Yeah, well, going back a little bit to culture.
So you've performed around the world from New York to Berlin.
How does performing in diverse cultural contexts shape your perspective on the, I guess, universal,
(08:16):
universality of music?
And how do you connect with audiences from different backgrounds through music?
I mean, I love it when you're in a space where people are very open minded and curious, you
know.
I was spoiled, I mean, particularly when I was a student in New York.
I was in situations where the audiences were always really hungry for, to be intellectually
(08:39):
challenged and taken to a sort of far away musical place, you know.
And I just mean far away in the sense of like far away for their imagination.
And so now, you know, it's a real thrill to be in the company of any audience like that.
(09:00):
And I think one of the things that's very exciting about Canada is that I find that
they seem to be very open to you bringing your story, you know, or maybe I'm just, you
know, unlucky, but I seem to be in a privileged position where if people want to commission
a piece or if they want to hear a piece of mine, they seem to be very open minded.
(09:20):
You know, they kind of just want you on a plate, you know, and then you can bring your
story and if your story is very multifaceted.
They seem to be interested in that.
And that's just a wonderful place to be for an artist.
Wonderful.
Well, yeah, you've seen so much of Canada and it's such a multicultural place.
How has the landscape and different cultures of the Maritimes versus Ontario influenced
(09:46):
your artistic process?
I don't think I think about it in terms of the sort of different landscapes, because,
you know, there is a sort of cultural, maybe, I don't know, cultural value system or a way
of thinking across this country, you know, and it's like I said before, they seem to
be very open minded and curious about you bringing your story and they're very willing
(10:09):
to listen to it and accept it.
And I think I find that no matter where I go in this country.
And so I just I would just like to keep exploring and just try and take my music to every corner,
you know, and keep meeting people.
Wonderful.
Do you find that you navigate a sort of blend with your cultural roots as well as your current
(10:34):
present location, Sri Lankan and Canadian?
Is there like a blend of musical tastes or flair in your music?
I would say absolutely.
And I would sort of broaden it to say that, I mean, I've said this before in interviews,
you know, not a day goes by that I don't feel either fully Eastern or fully Western.
(10:59):
And that is just for this for me in this lifetime, it's it's a kind of disconnect which one has
to live with.
It's sometimes uncomfortable.
It sometimes gives you an impetus to create.
But and I know many people feel disconnected or shall we say torn in this kind of way.
(11:21):
If it's not just cultural, it's another way or whatever.
But I feel very lucky that I have music because I can find a sort of balance that eludes me
otherwise, you know, I can I can use the music to find a certain balance that otherwise I
might not in daily life.
I love that.
You're also a creativity consultant, right?
(11:43):
Committed to mentoring emerging classical artists.
Do you have any advice that you would offer to young musicians looking to find their own
artistic voice in today's such a complex and globalized music industry?
Do you have any advice?
Yes, and I speak to a great many young artists and now these days, it's mostly where I teach
at the university, you know.
(12:05):
And if I had to give some advice in two words, you know, the first thing I would say is be
authentic, be yourself.
Now that it's very simple to say that and to some people, this might sound like a no
brainer, but you'd be surprised how difficult it is actually to be yourself because first
(12:28):
of all, to be yourself, let's say as an artist, you have to be willing to shed any kind of
baggage that stands in your way, that stands in the way of you being expressive according
to yourself, you know.
And at any point in your career, I meet people at every stage actually who want to talk about
(12:54):
problems they face in terms of just getting that expression out without any kind of obstruction.
And the obstruction is typically some kind of perceived notion of, well, I need to make
music in this way or I need to, you know, I need to compose in this way because people
expect it in a certain way, right?
It could be your peers, your family, your industry, your university, anything.
(13:18):
And so it's actually very difficult, surprisingly hard to be yourself and find artistic expression
according, you know, on your own terms.
That said, the benefit is I think we're at a very exciting time in the history of the
species in terms of producing art because, you know, now you can just do it with very
(13:39):
limited resources and with digital technology, you can get your stuff out to people with
the touch of a button and disseminate it and meet like-minded artists very, very quickly,
right?
So there is a huge advantage in that sense.
But then, of course, you know, you've got to filter out the stuff that, you know, you
(14:03):
don't want getting in there and you want to sort of really discover your own influences
and finding clarity seems to be the hardest thing for artists these days.
I resonate with that, especially since we're in such an interconnected world.
It's so easy for things to get to your head.
(14:24):
Is that something you take into consideration when you're composing, like what the audience
wants to hear or is it straight from the heart?
I mean, it's straight from the heart, but it is more nuanced, as you say, because in
my industry or in my corner of the music industry, there's this kind of tripartite relationship,
(14:45):
right?
There's the person who's creating the product.
So I'm writing a piece of music.
There is the audience who hopefully will be there and open-minded and curious and willing
to hear it.
And I do very much care about their experience.
I still write it in the way I want to write it.
But I try to think about how they are listening, how the listener is listening.
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But as I said, in my corner of the industry, the important intermediary and the component
are the other musicians who are playing my music, because I'm not always on stage playing,
let's say, I'm very rarely playing a solo piece of my own.
What I do is very collaborative.
And sometimes I'm not even in the city where the piece is being played.
(15:29):
So I get several performances a week and people are playing my stuff and I can't go to everything.
So I suppose I care, well, no, I wouldn't say the most, but I care a great deal about
the people who are playing the music.
Not only do I care about the audience, but I have a tremendous amount of respect and
(15:51):
care for my musician colleagues who are doing me a great, who are doing me the great honor
of bringing my music to life.
Otherwise it would just sit there on a piece of paper.
And so I think about these people a lot.
Like every single moment I write a note, I'm trying to empathize with their experience.
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And often I know personally who I'm writing for.
And I think that is in certainly in my corner of the industry that sort of tripartite relationship
between the creator, the player and the audience is something you have to consider and it's
very important.
Such a valuable perspective.
It's like the performer experience, not only the listener experience, we hear about the
(16:37):
listener experience so much because I guess it is an auditory craft, but the performer
experience is such like a social act of performing and sharing the music in the first place.
No, it's true what you say.
And again, it's specific to my corner of the industry, because for example, if I was writing
(16:57):
music that was only electronic, it might just be just my relationship between me and the
person who buys the product.
But I'm in the concert classical music industry and I rely on all of my colleagues to play
my music and they're my friends and my colleagues and I think about them a lot and I think about
(17:19):
their experience.
When you speak about the composer-performer relationship, and I can speak to this directly
because my life from day to day is split between being a creator and then someone who is essentially
interpreting.
The composer faces a blank page, you take a story or you take an idea and you start
(17:39):
with this very small seed idea and then you spend hours and weeks and months developing
this tiny idea into something very complex.
So you end with something which has a lot of detail and it came from one tiny, tiny
a single thought.
The performer works the other way around.
(18:02):
So particularly if the composer is not alive, you just get the score and you look at it
and you just think, oh darn, this person is not alive, I can't ask them a single question.
It's kind of like walking into a crime scene where you just see the body and all the chalk
outline and you have to figure out who done it.
And so you have to be the detective, you have to study the music and be the detective and
(18:26):
essentially move in the opposite direction.
This is what I tell my students, you are moving in the opposite direction to the creator.
You are moving from all this detective work towards hopefully what might be the single
idea that gave birth to the piece.
Maybe you don't find exactly the same idea as the composer and it doesn't matter, but
(18:47):
then at least you have a clear idea of your own.
Interesting, so it's almost like taking apart all the pieces of a puzzle.
Exactly.
See what was going on in the composer's head.
Very cool.
Awesome.
Well, your career has been marked by innovation and pushing musical boundaries as well.
(19:08):
How do you see the ongoing evolution of Canadian music as a whole?
I think it's very exciting to be making music in this country for reasons I talked about
before.
Everyone seems to be very excited for a person, particularly with some kind of multifaceted
background, to bring their story to the stage.
(19:30):
I would venture to say audiences are quite primed and excited to hear that in this country.
Perhaps because immigration is a big part of our culture.
Are there particular trends or movements that you see within Canadian music that you find
especially exciting?
So all that to say, I think we're at an exciting time for Canadian music.
(19:53):
I think it'll just continue to innovate and certainly post pandemic, there are very exciting
movements in terms of programming.
I think programming has become much more diverse and there's a lot of diversity on concert
programming and in theater and all the art forms.
(20:15):
I think lots of stories are being told and that's a very exciting thing.
Amazing.
Well, that brings us to the end of today's episode.
Thank you so much, Dinok, for taking the time to share such valuable pieces of your art
and heart.
Thank you, Brianna.
Thanks for having me.
Until next time, folks, keep listening for the Notes of the North.
Hello and welcome to Notes of the North Talks, a series where we get to know our local Canadian
(00:11):
musical talent.
Today I am here with Dinuk Wijeratne.
Thank you so much, Dinuk, for joining me today.
It's a pleasure, Brianna.
Good to be here.
Let's get right into it.
So Dinuk, where are you joining us from today?
Where in Canada do you call home?
At the moment, Ottawa.
So we moved to Ottawa from Toronto in the middle of the pandemic in 2021.
(00:34):
I was freelancing in Toronto and then I got a job at the University of Ottawa.
And I still freelance, so I'm juggling many things at the moment.
Awesome.
Is there any place else that holds a special place in your heart and that may have shaped
your work?
Yeah, I mean, actually, it depends on how far back you want to go.
(00:54):
But when I moved to Canada, I moved to Halifax, Nova Scotia.
And that was in 2005.
And Halifax, I mean, you know, my mom still lives there.
I mean, it feels like our second home.
And so just being in the Maritimes, you know, that has very special meaning for us.
(01:17):
But if you go back further, I was born in Sri Lanka.
Sadly, I left when I was four.
So there is a certain kind of pull, but a very sort of distant one.
It's more like this sort of a place that you want to get to know, you know.
And I suppose I use my music to try and explore that.
(01:37):
And then I grew up in the Middle East in Dubai.
And the definition of home for Dubai, I guess, is more like a sort of memory, you know.
And again, that has found its way into my music.
And then as a student, I spent time in the UK and the US before coming to Canada.
Wow.
So such an international palette.
(01:58):
Awesome.
Well, yeah, let's get right into it.
So your compositions reflect a blend of Canadian and Sri Lankan cultural influences.
Could you share with us an instance where this heritage has directly inspired a musical
piece and how you translated, I guess, cultural elements into music?
Yeah, and I would even add to that influences of the Middle East.
(02:21):
Because when I grew up in Dubai, I mean, I was there from, you know, the age of four
until I went to college, right?
So four to 18.
And Dubai at the time was a melting pot of South Asian and Middle Eastern culture and
many other cultures, Western culture.
You know, I had a Western education.
I learned Western music.
(02:42):
So all of the music that comes out now is predominantly this kind of mix of all of these
styles.
And so I would say that every single piece that I write now is some kind of autobiographical
exploration of all of these things.
But more explicitly, I have written this Sri Lankan inspired piece, which uses as its
(03:06):
source material a folk melody.
It's called Gajaga Vannama.
It's about the ceremonial elephant.
I wrote that in 2019.
So that one, I really went deep into Sri Lankan ethnomusicology and influences.
So it's I guess it's a mix of some very some pieces which are explicitly about these influences
(03:30):
and some where the influences are just subconscious.
As a composer, conductor and pianist, you had a multifaceted career as well.
So how do you balance these different roles?
And do you find that each role informs the others in unexpected ways?
Actually, yeah, the answer is I balance these with great difficulty.
(03:52):
And now that I'm a father of a two year old, time management is is even more of a pressing
concern.
But I've always been a performer as well as a composer.
And it seems that my life is just kind of balancing a balancing act between these two
things.
And yes, to answer your second question, there is definitely, definitely a symbiosis between
(04:18):
being a composer and a performer.
And I think, you know, on the one hand, I just think sometimes, oh, it's so difficult
to sort of balance the two.
But then I tell myself, you know, to look at the advantages, because I like to say that
I aspire to be a better composer because I'm a performer, and then vice versa.
(04:39):
You know, I can be a better performer, hopefully, because I'm so used to writing music.
Wonderful.
How do you approach interpreting your own compositions on the conductor's platform?
Do you find that as a composer, your conducting styles influence?
If I'm studying my own music, and now, you know, when I conduct programs, people ask
(05:01):
me to bring my own music.
So my music is mixed in with repertoire and everything.
I try to sort of be as objective as possible.
So then when I study my own score, I'm just taking another score off the pile and trying
to study it right.
But the advantage is I know the backstory of the music probably better than anyone else.
(05:21):
So I guess on the one hand, one has an advantage about the sort of psychology and the meaning
of the music.
But on the other hand, from a technical point of view, you still have to do the same homework
as you would for Beethoven or anything else.
Interesting.
Yeah, well, you've collaborated with a diverse range of musicians too, from composing for
(05:42):
Yo-Yo Ma, I think I saw, to the Silk Road Ensemble.
How do you ensure that all collaborators' voices are heard in the final result?
That's a great question because it is very context specific.
So I can give you an example.
If you know, if you're writing a piece for orchestra, the nature of this sort of niche
(06:02):
of the industry is that you spend all this time writing for an instrument which has so
many parts, you know, let's say 60 people or something.
And because there is typically very little time to get the music rehearsed, you just
have to show up with the music fully cleaned up and triple checked.
(06:28):
And then they might rehearse the piece for about 45 minutes and then you've just got
a hope for the best, right?
So if you're then asking, is this a kind of context where it's conducive to really getting
to know every single musician in the orchestra in a collaborative way, it's just not going
to happen.
You know, it's just the nature of orchestral music.
On the other hand, at the moment, to give you an example, you know, I'm working on a
(06:52):
two, three year project.
I'm working on my song cycle and it has been very collaborative.
So I've been able to really get to know the poet, get to know the singer.
I know the musicians in the ensemble very well.
We've had workshop time.
So in that sense, it's more like theater.
You know, you get this sort of workshop time with, you know, acting buddies or something
(07:13):
like that.
And so it really depends on the context.
Sometimes you get a lot, sometimes you get a little and you've just got to make the best
of it.
I think, you know, if you are writing a piece of music where you just know you have to hand
it in and really hope for the best, what I try to do is I try to imagine, I try to have
(07:33):
as much empathy as possible for every person on every single staff.
So what is their experience when they're looking at their corner of the music?
And so, you know, it's a poor substitute for getting to know someone as a human being,
but at least it puts you in a position of some kind of empathy for the player.
(07:53):
Interesting.
So it's almost idiomatic to each person in a sense.
And each context, exactly.
Awesome.
Yeah, well, going back a little bit to culture.
So you've performed around the world from New York to Berlin.
How does performing in diverse cultural contexts shape your perspective on the, I guess, universal,
(08:16):
universality of music?
And how do you connect with audiences from different backgrounds through music?
I mean, I love it when you're in a space where people are very open minded and curious, you
know.
I was spoiled, I mean, particularly when I was a student in New York.
I was in situations where the audiences were always really hungry for, to be intellectually
(08:39):
challenged and taken to a sort of far away musical place, you know.
And I just mean far away in the sense of like far away for their imagination.
And so now, you know, it's a real thrill to be in the company of any audience like that.
(09:00):
And I think one of the things that's very exciting about Canada is that I find that
they seem to be very open to you bringing your story, you know, or maybe I'm just, you
know, unlucky, but I seem to be in a privileged position where if people want to commission
a piece or if they want to hear a piece of mine, they seem to be very open minded.
(09:20):
You know, they kind of just want you on a plate, you know, and then you can bring your
story and if your story is very multifaceted.
They seem to be interested in that.
And that's just a wonderful place to be for an artist.
Wonderful.
Well, yeah, you've seen so much of Canada and it's such a multicultural place.
How has the landscape and different cultures of the Maritimes versus Ontario influenced
(09:46):
your artistic process?
I don't think I think about it in terms of the sort of different landscapes, because,
you know, there is a sort of cultural, maybe, I don't know, cultural value system or a way
of thinking across this country, you know, and it's like I said before, they seem to
be very open minded and curious about you bringing your story and they're very willing
(10:09):
to listen to it and accept it.
And I think I find that no matter where I go in this country.
And so I just I would just like to keep exploring and just try and take my music to every corner,
you know, and keep meeting people.
Wonderful.
Do you find that you navigate a sort of blend with your cultural roots as well as your current
(10:34):
present location, Sri Lankan and Canadian?
Is there like a blend of musical tastes or flair in your music?
I would say absolutely.
And I would sort of broaden it to say that, I mean, I've said this before in interviews,
you know, not a day goes by that I don't feel either fully Eastern or fully Western.
(10:59):
And that is just for this for me in this lifetime, it's it's a kind of disconnect which one has
to live with.
It's sometimes uncomfortable.
It sometimes gives you an impetus to create.
But and I know many people feel disconnected or shall we say torn in this kind of way.
(11:21):
If it's not just cultural, it's another way or whatever.
But I feel very lucky that I have music because I can find a sort of balance that eludes me
otherwise, you know, I can I can use the music to find a certain balance that otherwise I
might not in daily life.
I love that.
You're also a creativity consultant, right?
(11:43):
Committed to mentoring emerging classical artists.
Do you have any advice that you would offer to young musicians looking to find their own
artistic voice in today's such a complex and globalized music industry?
Do you have any advice?
Yes, and I speak to a great many young artists and now these days, it's mostly where I teach
at the university, you know.
(12:05):
And if I had to give some advice in two words, you know, the first thing I would say is be
authentic, be yourself.
Now that it's very simple to say that and to some people, this might sound like a no
brainer, but you'd be surprised how difficult it is actually to be yourself because first
(12:28):
of all, to be yourself, let's say as an artist, you have to be willing to shed any kind of
baggage that stands in your way, that stands in the way of you being expressive according
to yourself, you know.
And at any point in your career, I meet people at every stage actually who want to talk about
(12:54):
problems they face in terms of just getting that expression out without any kind of obstruction.
And the obstruction is typically some kind of perceived notion of, well, I need to make
music in this way or I need to, you know, I need to compose in this way because people
expect it in a certain way, right?
It could be your peers, your family, your industry, your university, anything.
(13:18):
And so it's actually very difficult, surprisingly hard to be yourself and find artistic expression
according, you know, on your own terms.
That said, the benefit is I think we're at a very exciting time in the history of the
species in terms of producing art because, you know, now you can just do it with very
(13:39):
limited resources and with digital technology, you can get your stuff out to people with
the touch of a button and disseminate it and meet like-minded artists very, very quickly,
right?
So there is a huge advantage in that sense.
But then, of course, you know, you've got to filter out the stuff that, you know, you
(14:03):
don't want getting in there and you want to sort of really discover your own influences
and finding clarity seems to be the hardest thing for artists these days.
I resonate with that, especially since we're in such an interconnected world.
It's so easy for things to get to your head.
(14:24):
Is that something you take into consideration when you're composing, like what the audience
wants to hear or is it straight from the heart?
I mean, it's straight from the heart, but it is more nuanced, as you say, because in
my industry or in my corner of the music industry, there's this kind of tripartite relationship,
(14:45):
right?
There's the person who's creating the product.
So I'm writing a piece of music.
There is the audience who hopefully will be there and open-minded and curious and willing
to hear it.
And I do very much care about their experience.
I still write it in the way I want to write it.
But I try to think about how they are listening, how the listener is listening.
(15:07):
But as I said, in my corner of the industry, the important intermediary and the component
are the other musicians who are playing my music, because I'm not always on stage playing,
let's say, I'm very rarely playing a solo piece of my own.
What I do is very collaborative.
And sometimes I'm not even in the city where the piece is being played.
(15:29):
So I get several performances a week and people are playing my stuff and I can't go to everything.
So I suppose I care, well, no, I wouldn't say the most, but I care a great deal about
the people who are playing the music.
Not only do I care about the audience, but I have a tremendous amount of respect and
(15:51):
care for my musician colleagues who are doing me a great, who are doing me the great honor
of bringing my music to life.
Otherwise it would just sit there on a piece of paper.
And so I think about these people a lot.
Like every single moment I write a note, I'm trying to empathize with their experience.
(16:13):
And often I know personally who I'm writing for.
And I think that is in certainly in my corner of the industry that sort of tripartite relationship
between the creator, the player and the audience is something you have to consider and it's
very important.
Such a valuable perspective.
It's like the performer experience, not only the listener experience, we hear about the
(16:37):
listener experience so much because I guess it is an auditory craft, but the performer
experience is such like a social act of performing and sharing the music in the first place.
No, it's true what you say.
And again, it's specific to my corner of the industry, because for example, if I was writing
(16:57):
music that was only electronic, it might just be just my relationship between me and the
person who buys the product.
But I'm in the concert classical music industry and I rely on all of my colleagues to play
my music and they're my friends and my colleagues and I think about them a lot and I think about
(17:19):
their experience.
When you speak about the composer-performer relationship, and I can speak to this directly
because my life from day to day is split between being a creator and then someone who is essentially
interpreting.
The composer faces a blank page, you take a story or you take an idea and you start
(17:39):
with this very small seed idea and then you spend hours and weeks and months developing
this tiny idea into something very complex.
So you end with something which has a lot of detail and it came from one tiny, tiny
a single thought.
The performer works the other way around.
(18:02):
So particularly if the composer is not alive, you just get the score and you look at it
and you just think, oh darn, this person is not alive, I can't ask them a single question.
It's kind of like walking into a crime scene where you just see the body and all the chalk
outline and you have to figure out who done it.
And so you have to be the detective, you have to study the music and be the detective and
(18:26):
essentially move in the opposite direction.
This is what I tell my students, you are moving in the opposite direction to the creator.
You are moving from all this detective work towards hopefully what might be the single
idea that gave birth to the piece.
Maybe you don't find exactly the same idea as the composer and it doesn't matter, but
(18:47):
then at least you have a clear idea of your own.
Interesting, so it's almost like taking apart all the pieces of a puzzle.
Exactly.
See what was going on in the composer's head.
Very cool.
Awesome.
Well, your career has been marked by innovation and pushing musical boundaries as well.
(19:08):
How do you see the ongoing evolution of Canadian music as a whole?
I think it's very exciting to be making music in this country for reasons I talked about
before.
Everyone seems to be very excited for a person, particularly with some kind of multifaceted
background, to bring their story to the stage.
(19:30):
I would venture to say audiences are quite primed and excited to hear that in this country.
Perhaps because immigration is a big part of our culture.
Are there particular trends or movements that you see within Canadian music that you find
especially exciting?
So all that to say, I think we're at an exciting time for Canadian music.
(19:53):
I think it'll just continue to innovate and certainly post pandemic, there are very exciting
movements in terms of programming.
I think programming has become much more diverse and there's a lot of diversity on concert
programming and in theater and all the art forms.
(20:15):
I think lots of stories are being told and that's a very exciting thing.
Amazing.
Well, that brings us to the end of today's episode.
Thank you so much, Dinok, for taking the time to share such valuable pieces of your art
and heart.
Thank you, Brianna.
Thanks for having me.
Until next time, folks, keep listening for the Notes of the North.
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