January 18, 2025 • 26 mins
2024 JUNO winner Nicole Lizée talks coffee-fuelled composition rituals, being born into an immersive malfunctioning technological environment, visuals fully embedded in coexistence with music as a member of the ensemble, favourite and most precious equipment, conversations rather than answers, and much more!
Featured music:
This Will Not Be Televised (2007)
RPM
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hello and welcome to Notes of the North Talks, a series where we get to know our local Canadian
(00:11):
musical talent.
Today, I'm here with Nicole Lizée.
Thank you so much, Nicole, for joining me today.
Oh, it's my pleasure.
Thanks for having me here.
First things first, Nicole, where are you joining us from today?
Where in Canada do you call home?
I am in Montreal and specifically in Le Chine, very close to the airport.
Ooh, awesome.
(00:32):
Now, rapid fire.
Could you describe your compositional style in five words?
Okay.
The first word I would say is personal.
Everything is meaningful to me.
I would say uncompromising.
I'm going to say idiosyncratic.
And how many is that?
(00:54):
That's three, right?
Unquantized, a word I use a lot lately, but I won't go into details yet.
And pigeonhole-less.
Ooh, tell me more.
So the first word, personal.
Every project I undertake, and it's always been like this, I would say for 99%, if not
(01:17):
higher, of the projects have all been driven from a place, from something that has deep
interest to me and deep meaning to me.
And even if I don't, well, it's impossible to know this, and I don't spend time thinking
about this, but even if it doesn't necessarily, it's not necessarily in fashion or what have
(01:41):
you, I mean, I don't think about these things too much, but it always comes from a place
that has deep meaning for me.
So everything is personal, referencing things that may be kind of obscure or something,
that drives the project and the piece because there's so much, I'm so driven by the subject
matter or even if there are new things learned along the way from collaborators or what have
(02:05):
you, it has to mean something to me.
So it is every project and every piece I write is personal.
And uncompromising and unquantized sort of are in the same ballpark in that I don't smooth
the edges, even if the, in many ways, the subject matter, the topic, again, if it's
not something that is outside the box or outside the parameters of what usually is sort of
(02:32):
acceptable in concert music, and I'm talking over many decades, years or decades of working,
something's not immediately accessible or put in the proper word there.
That doesn't really factor into it.
And even in orchestration choices using obsolete equipment or things that need work to locate
(02:58):
and learn and write for, and even in the way I notate or orchestrate, I don't want to round
things off.
So it will require a certain type of certain approach of orchestration that may require
a sort of a different way of looking at the score in order to perform.
(03:21):
And then, yeah, in the other words are sort of straightforward and syncratic.
Everything has been sort of a personal style.
I didn't really at all attempt to emulate any existing composers.
I was on my own for a long time and just sort of developed my own voice and had ideas even
from a young age of what I wanted to do and how I wanted things to sound.
(03:43):
And it seemed just logical and natural for me to pursue that, sort of putting blinders
on and moving forward.
So yeah, those are sort of descriptions of the rapid fire, which is not so rapid fire.
That's awesome.
And now for someone who might be new to your work, what do you think would be a recommendation
of a first piece that would really get them started on your style?
(04:07):
Oh, great question.
Maybe, you know, a piece from 2007 titled This Will Not Be Televised, which was my second
piece for Turntables.
And I really was able to delve deeper into turntablism.
(04:27):
It followed my 1999 piece that I did for my thesis, which was my first piece for Turntables,
my concerto called RPM.
And that might also be a good piece to check out.
But I think that or and I realized that so or a piece, you know, I recently from a couple
years ago, my opera RUR, which has a lot of, you know, and I was speaking earlier about
(04:50):
not quantizing and being uncompromising, certainly, especially in an opera setting.
That might also be a piece that in that piece, it involves tech, it involves wardrobe, it
involves multimedia and and unrelenting, you know, percussion ideas that and vocal ideas
that.
(05:11):
Yeah, I just really went pretty deep into into that.
Very exciting.
We're definitely going to talk more about that soon.
Now if we could peer into your creative process on a typical day, what might we see you do?
Any habits or rituals before you start, for example?
Well, probably not a surprise.
(05:32):
Coffee, right?
And caffeine.
I mean, yeah, I I mean, I do.
Oftentimes there is there is a ritual, but oftentimes it starts depending on on the task
at hand if I have a major deadline that I that I you know, I write right away.
So I mean, but a typical day would be I do a lot of reading sometimes to just, you know,
(05:56):
that I'm not inspired, but just sort of to to sort of kick off the adrenaline kind of
thing.
I do write every day.
There's very rarely where I'm not writing something, even even if it's not actual notation,
it's ideas about something I keep.
I have always found it important to keep something nearby where I'll jot down conceptual notes
(06:21):
or or I'll sing into, you know, a recorder or I'll I'll work with a piece of tech or
so every day.
I mean, a typical day is is getting up coffee, lots of writing, reading and and and I since
(06:42):
I do a lot of multimedia, there's there's also what I reserve usually later in the day
for technological kind of focus.
So and I and I and I again, that involves reading, trying new skills, you know, kind
of acquiring new skills.
So I find that important not every day for that, but certainly several times a week.
(07:02):
Awesome.
And going off of this theme of technology now, could you tell me about the moments in the
beginning that sparked this interest in exploring non-traditional orchestral instruments and
technology in your composition?
Yes.
So actually, it started very young, very young age because my my father is an electronics
(07:24):
salesperson, repairman and collector.
So I was sort of born into that environment.
He never still doesn't throw anything away, kept everything.
And so I was surrounded by by technology.
And so when I was starting to, you know, as a young person, there are also instruments
(07:45):
in the house.
So the instruments were in a vicinity in the house, sort of surrounded by all this tech
that was malfunctioning.
And because I mean, many things would work, but many things didn't.
And everything was was analog then.
So there were actually devices that would still work.
They wouldn't they wouldn't shut down, but they wouldn't work according to the manufacturer's
(08:08):
specifications.
So they were of no use to the public, so to speak.
But they were but they were still sitting there and making crazy, amazing sounds that
I was immediately drawn to.
So those just seem natural to to write for them and to try and recreate those sounds
or try to merge them with the instruments that were around the house.
(08:30):
Piano, guitar.
Later, I got a drum kit, electric guitar, and I would sing along with with them.
So once I started notating and it didn't leave.
It was completely sort of burned into my into my brain, into my subconscious.
They were instruments and those sounds could only be created by those very machines.
(08:53):
Wow.
What's been like a really unique piece of this technology that you've used that really
stuck in your mind?
Oh, so so many.
Well, I would I think I would I would say the RCA Selectivision, which was very short lived.
I think about this machine a lot and I have one.
(09:13):
I mean, and my dad still has them.
It was it's a little hard to describe it as large.
It's not a laser disk, but as large as a laser disk.
And it has a stylus in there and it came around in the mid to late 70s.
And you had to load it into this machine and take it out, you know, load it in, let it
(09:34):
do its thing, which was also always very noisy and also very fascinating to me.
Take it out and there were movies.
But the thing is, I mean, there was a selection of movies and it lasted for a period of years.
So there were very limited number of movies, certainly that I was aware of.
Anyway, every time it was played, it would break down.
(09:57):
It would still play.
But the movie itself would start to degrade.
So in a serious, in a very quick way.
So it would get chewed up.
It would skip.
It would the colors would saturate.
And it was very so the movie two things were happening.
The sound and the vision, the visuals were incredible.
(10:18):
I mean, they would change every time you played that movie back and it would sort of take
over the narrative of the movie in in a musical way and an artistic way.
The narrative was no longer serving the purpose.
You didn't care about the story.
It was you never knew what you were going to get.
And so it had a life of its own.
It had its own soul, so to speak.
(10:41):
So I would say, yeah, I would say the RCA Select Division.
I love it because of what it did to me.
I mean, I had a huge impression from a very young age and I was always excited to see
how a certain film would behave that day.
And the fact that it's, you know, it's so it's such a precious piece of equipment that
it failed, but made such an impression, you know, so it's nobody will speak of it because
(11:06):
it's essentially a failure.
But it's so artistic and it looked beautiful.
It was wood paneling, you know, the big, massive kind of pieces of equipment that people that
is synonymous with the 70s kind of thing.
Everything was so huge, you know, and so much care was put into it.
That's so fascinating, especially the part where you said it produces these images that
(11:27):
are never produced again.
What role does this aleatoric element play in your works, especially within the context
of music?
We know that is constantly repeated over and over in identical form.
Yeah, that's a great question.
And in something that I think a lot about because it's based on error and it's not dependable
(11:47):
and it could break down at any moment.
I mean, the machines that I have, some of them I will, I used to take on tour perform
with and some of them I won't anymore.
I was sort of more as when I was younger, I was I was not so concerned with.
I just wanted no matter, you know, it had to have that machine in it.
(12:08):
And now I'm sort of developed an emotional attachment to this machine.
I want to take care of it.
And, you know, but at the same time, yeah, having that having that unpredictable element
is is it's really it's hard for me to articulate.
I mean, because I wanted to harness it and I've sort of devoted my my career, my output
(12:32):
to harnessing that sound that is so it what it did essentially was sort of inject the
spirit of that machine into the way I write, even if I can't use that machine or it's
an independent.
I still want it there for its beauty and the fact that it's unpredictable and can't be
tamed kind of thing.
But it had it made an impression on the way I approach music, because when I talk about
(12:54):
the unquantizing, not quantizing anything, that's exactly what I mean, because if what
if things were quantized, then that sort of erratic, irrational, you know, spirited kind
of kind of sound that or sounding and visuals that I experienced, it wouldn't be the same.
So it really affected the way I notate and the way I orchestrate and the way I approach
(13:15):
art, I guess overall that unpredictability.
But at the same time, yet the machine itself is just, you know, it's it's not dependable.
And there's a beauty in that there's a there's a beauty in that.
That's really beautiful.
In addition to composing, you're also a filmmaker and video artist.
So how do your visual and musical worlds overlap in your projects?
(13:40):
Like how do do visual elements influence your music and vice versa?
Yes.
Yeah.
In a word, absolutely, absolutely.
And again, referencing back to when I was watching movies, I mean, the movies were played
back on this this item, this this device that was a musical instrument.
But at the same time, I was watching, you know, visuals.
(14:02):
I was looking and initially watching, you know, it was a lot of the same movies, too.
So that made an impact, kind of became obsessed with a certain certain directors in certain
films and the way the direction went, the cinematography, the editing, editing played
a huge part observing other the way other filmmakers would approach editing and cinematography.
(14:26):
I thought not not every time what I think visually when I'm writing a piece, but oftentimes
I do.
Even if it's not intended to be visual, it's still expressive in the way that that cinematography
is.
So when I when I started when I started making my own films, I started by editing preexisting
(14:48):
found footage into into musical work.
So editing started first and then I gradually, you know, at the same time was learning about
cameras and learning about cinematography and reading a lot of books about about directors
and their approaches and started getting into animation and things like that.
(15:09):
So yeah, it when I and when I write these pieces, one, it always has been that way to
where one cannot exist without the other.
They have to be completely embedded.
So there can't be the music can't simply accompany the visuals and the visuals can't just, you
know, be there arbitrarily while music is going on.
(15:32):
So they have to be completely they have to coexist equally together.
And that's why I write everything simultaneously.
And I write the visual component into the score so that it becomes a chamber musician.
Now you work so much with technology.
So I'm really interested in hearing your thoughts about the speed of innovation nowadays and
(15:54):
the context of modern technology.
Could you speak a little to that?
Yes.
Yeah.
I think that innovation has always happened quickly.
It's just that we're hearing about it quickly as well.
You know, part of the innovation and the technologies included, you know, immediate instantaneous
news.
So we hear about things.
(16:15):
Whereas when I was, you know, and I'm talking about what I what people refer to as a golden
age of technology, which occurred in the 70s and 80s, things were being invented and beta
tested very rapidly, you know, with the advent of video games, with home media, with, you
know, it was, you know, it just it was one thing after the other satellite dishes, et
(16:38):
cetera, et cetera.
I mean, there were always machines arriving, but it was happening often quietly.
We wouldn't hear about it until it was for sale.
And then it was already, you know, thinking about the next thing, the next thing.
I think now it's so instantaneous.
And it's and it's also in it's not really tangible.
(17:00):
It happens, you know, the much the tech that exists now is not it's in the ether.
You know, if you're downloading, if you're accessing devices now online, if they're if
they're purely digital, then it's a very different experience than than analog.
But they're both very, very, very progressive times.
(17:24):
Turning a little bit back, I think we touched on it a little bit already.
But your works incorporate these unconventional instruments like turntables, vintage board
games, too, I think I saw.
How do you approach this process of writing for them?
For the actual notation?
Yeah, yeah, I I love this challenge and it is a challenge.
But I started I started just embracing it again from a young age, wanting these devices,
(17:52):
knowing one of these devices again, considered legitimate or considered a real member of
the ensemble.
And so that it could in order for the piece to be played, the the organized the ensemble
or the organization had to also make room, make space for for this element and learn
(18:13):
about, you know, find it, learn about it.
And then so in order for that to happen, it has it really has to be embedded into the
score.
And so I was very, very motivated.
So when I was writing for turntables in for my thesis, I had to I had to devise a notation
where where everything had to be specific.
I didn't want the turntable is to just play over top of some stuff.
(18:36):
I wanted it to be like a chamber piece where every again, every member of the ensemble
has a part and plays together and listens to each other.
And the interesting thing about turntable ism is that you have the turntables, but you
also have the media, you have another component, which is the LP, which also contains in and
of itself, it contains tempo, sound dynamics.
(19:00):
So that has to be written for as well.
And I loved doing that.
I loved the the challenge of harnessing that.
But it had to happen.
I wouldn't I didn't want anything to be arbitrary.
I really wanted everything I wanted the tempo changes and not only not only the tempo changes
in the LP, but the way the the turntable list will manipulate that if you put your hand
(19:20):
on the on the surface of a record and push it, it'll speed up, it'll slow down, you
know, that sort of thing.
It'll reverse.
And I wanted to write that in.
And that sort of forced me or, you know, it made me look deeper into tempo and to rhythm
into meter into feel because everybody has to listen to each other.
And you are the conductor, too, but the but the the records are are also a conductor because
(19:46):
they have their their baked in tempos and and sound overall.
So for it so for for every every device that I've sort of embraced along the way, it's
been essential to find an effective notation for them.
So all of them have their own, you know, I'll use a combination.
(20:08):
I'll often use notation as much as I can, sort of traditional notation, but I'll put
in, you know, there are lots of explanations or text or often if they're in the case of
a record of vinyl, I will write I'll transcribe.
I learned to transcribe very, very early on to transcribe that particular not only the
(20:30):
excerpt, but also the way the excerpt is manipulated by the by the turntable list so that it so
it coincides with whatever's going on in the orchestra.
It has to has to match up.
So yeah.
Wow.
And as someone who works with so many gadgets, do you have any personal favorite tools or
objects that you couldn't live without, both musical or technological?
(20:54):
So much like my my father, I very rarely throw like I collect things.
And so I would say that I can't I mean, can't live without is loaded.
I mean, I don't know, but I I would be sad if I were, for example, the SelectaVision
that I have or the Atari 2600 that these are divided.
These are from my childhood.
These are the very and I have the movies that go with them.
(21:15):
So a lot of times I will talk about when I was talking about the the RCA, the discs,
the video discs that would seriously get glitch.
One of them was the the Franco Zeffirelli version of Jesus of Nazareth.
And so I have this very disc set that is heavily glitched that, you know, that is from my youth.
(21:36):
And that is what sort of impressed upon me.
That is that movie that would change every time it become evil and psychedelic and, you
know, King Herod, when he was going to kill all these babies.
It suddenly, you know, it wasn't just that.
It was the fact that his face turned purple and, you know, suddenly warped and started
being chewed up.
So I have these very discs.
And then, you know, things like records I can't live without or the old board games
(22:02):
that I have to that that are so inventive from from a long time ago that have, you know,
just they're they're really inventive and they have some that have components built
into them.
People put a lot of effort into into the creativity of these games and lots of miniatures.
I collect miniatures and some of them are really I've only seen one of them, you know,
(22:25):
that exists.
They're all in so detailed and they're so well crafted.
And I would also say physical books and magazines that are disappearing.
I've tried, you know, I can, of course, I can I can do the online thing and I do all
the time.
But there's something there's a beauty about having an actual book, especially one that
is old and you've only heard about it.
(22:46):
And there it is.
And they haven't bothered to put it online.
You know, it's it's, you know, it's almost the pages are paper thin or, you know, they
barely exist.
It's made of tissue and you know, it's going to disappear.
But it's that's I don't know.
There's something about those that kind of that kind of it's not really technology, but
it is sort of, you know, books and magazines.
(23:08):
So a lot of things I could go on for a long time.
Obviously, I like stuff.
I love that so much.
And now I guess to wrap things up a little bit, turning back to the north.
So you're a key figure in Canada's contemporary music scene and your works have been performed
globally.
So what do you think it means to be a Canadian composer, especially in today's musical landscape?
(23:31):
Wow, that's a really heavy question in many ways.
It's really difficult.
I'm still I still don't know how to answer that.
Really.
But it means I can say, of course, that it means a huge amount to be to be involved in
(23:53):
the the music scene in Canada and globally.
Of course, I love I love I love that.
And I'm happy and to be to be involved, you know, as I travel around the world or my pieces
are being performed and and the other Canadians there or, you know, I'm I'm introduced as
(24:14):
being from Canada.
I'm you know, I'm I'm so so pleased and proud of that.
And also it goes, you know, I'm also was born in Saskatchewan.
So there's Saskatchewan representing and people will bring that up.
And there's a warmth.
I feel, you know, there's a beauty in that that I that I that I love.
But as as for what it apart from that, apart apart from the the pride and the gratitude
(24:40):
and the, you know, the excitement, I'm not sure how to answer what it means to be Canadian.
You know, it just means I guess it means, you know, there's a certain there's an artistic
freedom, I suppose.
But that can be said for many, for many artists around the world.
(25:02):
Yeah, so it's a very it's a very difficult I think that I would answer that question
at the end of my life, maybe where I would know, but have more.
Right now I'm just in it.
You know, I'm I'm sort of, you know, sort of involved, embedded, embedded in it and
and learning, still learning and discovering.
(25:23):
And I'm really involved in that.
So I haven't been able to sit back and sort of assess what it all means yet.
Yeah.
It's a never ending journey, really, of self discovery.
Yeah, I do.
I believe that.
Yeah, absolutely.
And I think that's OK.
I don't think that there has to be sort of a sort of an assessment of it.
(25:43):
I don't know.
It's not it's not I like but I do like being in the conversation with other artists and
discussing that because it will lead to something even if we never answer that question.
And that's OK.
There are unanswered questions.
And but I like the conversations about what it all means.
There's that that's always been intriguing.
(26:06):
It's beautiful.
Well, that's it for today's episode.
So thank you so much, Nicole, for sharing such beautiful pieces of your art and heart.
Thanks so much, Brianna.
This has been wonderful.
Thank you for the excellent questions.
It's really been a pleasure speaking with you until next time, folks.
Thank you for listening for the Notes of the North.
Hello and welcome to Notes of the North Talks, a series where we get to know our local Canadian
(00:11):
musical talent.
Today, I'm here with Nicole Lizée.
Thank you so much, Nicole, for joining me today.
Oh, it's my pleasure.
Thanks for having me here.
First things first, Nicole, where are you joining us from today?
Where in Canada do you call home?
I am in Montreal and specifically in Le Chine, very close to the airport.
Ooh, awesome.
(00:32):
Now, rapid fire.
Could you describe your compositional style in five words?
Okay.
The first word I would say is personal.
Everything is meaningful to me.
I would say uncompromising.
I'm going to say idiosyncratic.
And how many is that?
(00:54):
That's three, right?
Unquantized, a word I use a lot lately, but I won't go into details yet.
And pigeonhole-less.
Ooh, tell me more.
So the first word, personal.
Every project I undertake, and it's always been like this, I would say for 99%, if not
(01:17):
higher, of the projects have all been driven from a place, from something that has deep
interest to me and deep meaning to me.
And even if I don't, well, it's impossible to know this, and I don't spend time thinking
about this, but even if it doesn't necessarily, it's not necessarily in fashion or what have
(01:41):
you, I mean, I don't think about these things too much, but it always comes from a place
that has deep meaning for me.
So everything is personal, referencing things that may be kind of obscure or something,
that drives the project and the piece because there's so much, I'm so driven by the subject
matter or even if there are new things learned along the way from collaborators or what have
(02:05):
you, it has to mean something to me.
So it is every project and every piece I write is personal.
And uncompromising and unquantized sort of are in the same ballpark in that I don't smooth
the edges, even if the, in many ways, the subject matter, the topic, again, if it's
not something that is outside the box or outside the parameters of what usually is sort of
(02:32):
acceptable in concert music, and I'm talking over many decades, years or decades of working,
something's not immediately accessible or put in the proper word there.
That doesn't really factor into it.
And even in orchestration choices using obsolete equipment or things that need work to locate
(02:58):
and learn and write for, and even in the way I notate or orchestrate, I don't want to round
things off.
So it will require a certain type of certain approach of orchestration that may require
a sort of a different way of looking at the score in order to perform.
(03:21):
And then, yeah, in the other words are sort of straightforward and syncratic.
Everything has been sort of a personal style.
I didn't really at all attempt to emulate any existing composers.
I was on my own for a long time and just sort of developed my own voice and had ideas even
from a young age of what I wanted to do and how I wanted things to sound.
(03:43):
And it seemed just logical and natural for me to pursue that, sort of putting blinders
on and moving forward.
So yeah, those are sort of descriptions of the rapid fire, which is not so rapid fire.
That's awesome.
And now for someone who might be new to your work, what do you think would be a recommendation
of a first piece that would really get them started on your style?
(04:07):
Oh, great question.
Maybe, you know, a piece from 2007 titled This Will Not Be Televised, which was my second
piece for Turntables.
And I really was able to delve deeper into turntablism.
(04:27):
It followed my 1999 piece that I did for my thesis, which was my first piece for Turntables,
my concerto called RPM.
And that might also be a good piece to check out.
But I think that or and I realized that so or a piece, you know, I recently from a couple
years ago, my opera RUR, which has a lot of, you know, and I was speaking earlier about
(04:50):
not quantizing and being uncompromising, certainly, especially in an opera setting.
That might also be a piece that in that piece, it involves tech, it involves wardrobe, it
involves multimedia and and unrelenting, you know, percussion ideas that and vocal ideas
that.
(05:11):
Yeah, I just really went pretty deep into into that.
Very exciting.
We're definitely going to talk more about that soon.
Now if we could peer into your creative process on a typical day, what might we see you do?
Any habits or rituals before you start, for example?
Well, probably not a surprise.
(05:32):
Coffee, right?
And caffeine.
I mean, yeah, I I mean, I do.
Oftentimes there is there is a ritual, but oftentimes it starts depending on on the task
at hand if I have a major deadline that I that I you know, I write right away.
So I mean, but a typical day would be I do a lot of reading sometimes to just, you know,
(05:56):
that I'm not inspired, but just sort of to to sort of kick off the adrenaline kind of
thing.
I do write every day.
There's very rarely where I'm not writing something, even even if it's not actual notation,
it's ideas about something I keep.
I have always found it important to keep something nearby where I'll jot down conceptual notes
(06:21):
or or I'll sing into, you know, a recorder or I'll I'll work with a piece of tech or
so every day.
I mean, a typical day is is getting up coffee, lots of writing, reading and and and I since
(06:42):
I do a lot of multimedia, there's there's also what I reserve usually later in the day
for technological kind of focus.
So and I and I and I again, that involves reading, trying new skills, you know, kind
of acquiring new skills.
So I find that important not every day for that, but certainly several times a week.
(07:02):
Awesome.
And going off of this theme of technology now, could you tell me about the moments in the
beginning that sparked this interest in exploring non-traditional orchestral instruments and
technology in your composition?
Yes.
So actually, it started very young, very young age because my my father is an electronics
(07:24):
salesperson, repairman and collector.
So I was sort of born into that environment.
He never still doesn't throw anything away, kept everything.
And so I was surrounded by by technology.
And so when I was starting to, you know, as a young person, there are also instruments
(07:45):
in the house.
So the instruments were in a vicinity in the house, sort of surrounded by all this tech
that was malfunctioning.
And because I mean, many things would work, but many things didn't.
And everything was was analog then.
So there were actually devices that would still work.
They wouldn't they wouldn't shut down, but they wouldn't work according to the manufacturer's
(08:08):
specifications.
So they were of no use to the public, so to speak.
But they were but they were still sitting there and making crazy, amazing sounds that
I was immediately drawn to.
So those just seem natural to to write for them and to try and recreate those sounds
or try to merge them with the instruments that were around the house.
(08:30):
Piano, guitar.
Later, I got a drum kit, electric guitar, and I would sing along with with them.
So once I started notating and it didn't leave.
It was completely sort of burned into my into my brain, into my subconscious.
They were instruments and those sounds could only be created by those very machines.
(08:53):
Wow.
What's been like a really unique piece of this technology that you've used that really
stuck in your mind?
Oh, so so many.
Well, I would I think I would I would say the RCA Selectivision, which was very short lived.
I think about this machine a lot and I have one.
(09:13):
I mean, and my dad still has them.
It was it's a little hard to describe it as large.
It's not a laser disk, but as large as a laser disk.
And it has a stylus in there and it came around in the mid to late 70s.
And you had to load it into this machine and take it out, you know, load it in, let it
(09:34):
do its thing, which was also always very noisy and also very fascinating to me.
Take it out and there were movies.
But the thing is, I mean, there was a selection of movies and it lasted for a period of years.
So there were very limited number of movies, certainly that I was aware of.
Anyway, every time it was played, it would break down.
(09:57):
It would still play.
But the movie itself would start to degrade.
So in a serious, in a very quick way.
So it would get chewed up.
It would skip.
It would the colors would saturate.
And it was very so the movie two things were happening.
The sound and the vision, the visuals were incredible.
(10:18):
I mean, they would change every time you played that movie back and it would sort of take
over the narrative of the movie in in a musical way and an artistic way.
The narrative was no longer serving the purpose.
You didn't care about the story.
It was you never knew what you were going to get.
And so it had a life of its own.
It had its own soul, so to speak.
(10:41):
So I would say, yeah, I would say the RCA Select Division.
I love it because of what it did to me.
I mean, I had a huge impression from a very young age and I was always excited to see
how a certain film would behave that day.
And the fact that it's, you know, it's so it's such a precious piece of equipment that
it failed, but made such an impression, you know, so it's nobody will speak of it because
(11:06):
it's essentially a failure.
But it's so artistic and it looked beautiful.
It was wood paneling, you know, the big, massive kind of pieces of equipment that people that
is synonymous with the 70s kind of thing.
Everything was so huge, you know, and so much care was put into it.
That's so fascinating, especially the part where you said it produces these images that
(11:27):
are never produced again.
What role does this aleatoric element play in your works, especially within the context
of music?
We know that is constantly repeated over and over in identical form.
Yeah, that's a great question.
And in something that I think a lot about because it's based on error and it's not dependable
(11:47):
and it could break down at any moment.
I mean, the machines that I have, some of them I will, I used to take on tour perform
with and some of them I won't anymore.
I was sort of more as when I was younger, I was I was not so concerned with.
I just wanted no matter, you know, it had to have that machine in it.
(12:08):
And now I'm sort of developed an emotional attachment to this machine.
I want to take care of it.
And, you know, but at the same time, yeah, having that having that unpredictable element
is is it's really it's hard for me to articulate.
I mean, because I wanted to harness it and I've sort of devoted my my career, my output
(12:32):
to harnessing that sound that is so it what it did essentially was sort of inject the
spirit of that machine into the way I write, even if I can't use that machine or it's
an independent.
I still want it there for its beauty and the fact that it's unpredictable and can't be
tamed kind of thing.
But it had it made an impression on the way I approach music, because when I talk about
(12:54):
the unquantizing, not quantizing anything, that's exactly what I mean, because if what
if things were quantized, then that sort of erratic, irrational, you know, spirited kind
of kind of sound that or sounding and visuals that I experienced, it wouldn't be the same.
So it really affected the way I notate and the way I orchestrate and the way I approach
(13:15):
art, I guess overall that unpredictability.
But at the same time, yet the machine itself is just, you know, it's it's not dependable.
And there's a beauty in that there's a there's a beauty in that.
That's really beautiful.
In addition to composing, you're also a filmmaker and video artist.
So how do your visual and musical worlds overlap in your projects?
(13:40):
Like how do do visual elements influence your music and vice versa?
Yes.
Yeah.
In a word, absolutely, absolutely.
And again, referencing back to when I was watching movies, I mean, the movies were played
back on this this item, this this device that was a musical instrument.
But at the same time, I was watching, you know, visuals.
(14:02):
I was looking and initially watching, you know, it was a lot of the same movies, too.
So that made an impact, kind of became obsessed with a certain certain directors in certain
films and the way the direction went, the cinematography, the editing, editing played
a huge part observing other the way other filmmakers would approach editing and cinematography.
(14:26):
I thought not not every time what I think visually when I'm writing a piece, but oftentimes
I do.
Even if it's not intended to be visual, it's still expressive in the way that that cinematography
is.
So when I when I started when I started making my own films, I started by editing preexisting
(14:48):
found footage into into musical work.
So editing started first and then I gradually, you know, at the same time was learning about
cameras and learning about cinematography and reading a lot of books about about directors
and their approaches and started getting into animation and things like that.
(15:09):
So yeah, it when I and when I write these pieces, one, it always has been that way to
where one cannot exist without the other.
They have to be completely embedded.
So there can't be the music can't simply accompany the visuals and the visuals can't just, you
know, be there arbitrarily while music is going on.
(15:32):
So they have to be completely they have to coexist equally together.
And that's why I write everything simultaneously.
And I write the visual component into the score so that it becomes a chamber musician.
Now you work so much with technology.
So I'm really interested in hearing your thoughts about the speed of innovation nowadays and
(15:54):
the context of modern technology.
Could you speak a little to that?
Yes.
Yeah.
I think that innovation has always happened quickly.
It's just that we're hearing about it quickly as well.
You know, part of the innovation and the technologies included, you know, immediate instantaneous
news.
So we hear about things.
(16:15):
Whereas when I was, you know, and I'm talking about what I what people refer to as a golden
age of technology, which occurred in the 70s and 80s, things were being invented and beta
tested very rapidly, you know, with the advent of video games, with home media, with, you
know, it was, you know, it just it was one thing after the other satellite dishes, et
(16:38):
cetera, et cetera.
I mean, there were always machines arriving, but it was happening often quietly.
We wouldn't hear about it until it was for sale.
And then it was already, you know, thinking about the next thing, the next thing.
I think now it's so instantaneous.
And it's and it's also in it's not really tangible.
(17:00):
It happens, you know, the much the tech that exists now is not it's in the ether.
You know, if you're downloading, if you're accessing devices now online, if they're if
they're purely digital, then it's a very different experience than than analog.
But they're both very, very, very progressive times.
(17:24):
Turning a little bit back, I think we touched on it a little bit already.
But your works incorporate these unconventional instruments like turntables, vintage board
games, too, I think I saw.
How do you approach this process of writing for them?
For the actual notation?
Yeah, yeah, I I love this challenge and it is a challenge.
But I started I started just embracing it again from a young age, wanting these devices,
(17:52):
knowing one of these devices again, considered legitimate or considered a real member of
the ensemble.
And so that it could in order for the piece to be played, the the organized the ensemble
or the organization had to also make room, make space for for this element and learn
(18:13):
about, you know, find it, learn about it.
And then so in order for that to happen, it has it really has to be embedded into the
score.
And so I was very, very motivated.
So when I was writing for turntables in for my thesis, I had to I had to devise a notation
where where everything had to be specific.
I didn't want the turntable is to just play over top of some stuff.
(18:36):
I wanted it to be like a chamber piece where every again, every member of the ensemble
has a part and plays together and listens to each other.
And the interesting thing about turntable ism is that you have the turntables, but you
also have the media, you have another component, which is the LP, which also contains in and
of itself, it contains tempo, sound dynamics.
(19:00):
So that has to be written for as well.
And I loved doing that.
I loved the the challenge of harnessing that.
But it had to happen.
I wouldn't I didn't want anything to be arbitrary.
I really wanted everything I wanted the tempo changes and not only not only the tempo changes
in the LP, but the way the the turntable list will manipulate that if you put your hand
(19:20):
on the on the surface of a record and push it, it'll speed up, it'll slow down, you
know, that sort of thing.
It'll reverse.
And I wanted to write that in.
And that sort of forced me or, you know, it made me look deeper into tempo and to rhythm
into meter into feel because everybody has to listen to each other.
And you are the conductor, too, but the but the the records are are also a conductor because
(19:46):
they have their their baked in tempos and and sound overall.
So for it so for for every every device that I've sort of embraced along the way, it's
been essential to find an effective notation for them.
So all of them have their own, you know, I'll use a combination.
(20:08):
I'll often use notation as much as I can, sort of traditional notation, but I'll put
in, you know, there are lots of explanations or text or often if they're in the case of
a record of vinyl, I will write I'll transcribe.
I learned to transcribe very, very early on to transcribe that particular not only the
(20:30):
excerpt, but also the way the excerpt is manipulated by the by the turntable list so that it so
it coincides with whatever's going on in the orchestra.
It has to has to match up.
So yeah.
Wow.
And as someone who works with so many gadgets, do you have any personal favorite tools or
objects that you couldn't live without, both musical or technological?
(20:54):
So much like my my father, I very rarely throw like I collect things.
And so I would say that I can't I mean, can't live without is loaded.
I mean, I don't know, but I I would be sad if I were, for example, the SelectaVision
that I have or the Atari 2600 that these are divided.
These are from my childhood.
These are the very and I have the movies that go with them.
(21:15):
So a lot of times I will talk about when I was talking about the the RCA, the discs,
the video discs that would seriously get glitch.
One of them was the the Franco Zeffirelli version of Jesus of Nazareth.
And so I have this very disc set that is heavily glitched that, you know, that is from my youth.
(21:36):
And that is what sort of impressed upon me.
That is that movie that would change every time it become evil and psychedelic and, you
know, King Herod, when he was going to kill all these babies.
It suddenly, you know, it wasn't just that.
It was the fact that his face turned purple and, you know, suddenly warped and started
being chewed up.
So I have these very discs.
And then, you know, things like records I can't live without or the old board games
(22:02):
that I have to that that are so inventive from from a long time ago that have, you know,
just they're they're really inventive and they have some that have components built
into them.
People put a lot of effort into into the creativity of these games and lots of miniatures.
I collect miniatures and some of them are really I've only seen one of them, you know,
(22:25):
that exists.
They're all in so detailed and they're so well crafted.
And I would also say physical books and magazines that are disappearing.
I've tried, you know, I can, of course, I can I can do the online thing and I do all
the time.
But there's something there's a beauty about having an actual book, especially one that
is old and you've only heard about it.
(22:46):
And there it is.
And they haven't bothered to put it online.
You know, it's it's, you know, it's almost the pages are paper thin or, you know, they
barely exist.
It's made of tissue and you know, it's going to disappear.
But it's that's I don't know.
There's something about those that kind of that kind of it's not really technology, but
it is sort of, you know, books and magazines.
(23:08):
So a lot of things I could go on for a long time.
Obviously, I like stuff.
I love that so much.
And now I guess to wrap things up a little bit, turning back to the north.
So you're a key figure in Canada's contemporary music scene and your works have been performed
globally.
So what do you think it means to be a Canadian composer, especially in today's musical landscape?
(23:31):
Wow, that's a really heavy question in many ways.
It's really difficult.
I'm still I still don't know how to answer that.
Really.
But it means I can say, of course, that it means a huge amount to be to be involved in
(23:53):
the the music scene in Canada and globally.
Of course, I love I love I love that.
And I'm happy and to be to be involved, you know, as I travel around the world or my pieces
are being performed and and the other Canadians there or, you know, I'm I'm introduced as
(24:14):
being from Canada.
I'm you know, I'm I'm so so pleased and proud of that.
And also it goes, you know, I'm also was born in Saskatchewan.
So there's Saskatchewan representing and people will bring that up.
And there's a warmth.
I feel, you know, there's a beauty in that that I that I that I love.
But as as for what it apart from that, apart apart from the the pride and the gratitude
(24:40):
and the, you know, the excitement, I'm not sure how to answer what it means to be Canadian.
You know, it just means I guess it means, you know, there's a certain there's an artistic
freedom, I suppose.
But that can be said for many, for many artists around the world.
(25:02):
Yeah, so it's a very it's a very difficult I think that I would answer that question
at the end of my life, maybe where I would know, but have more.
Right now I'm just in it.
You know, I'm I'm sort of, you know, sort of involved, embedded, embedded in it and
and learning, still learning and discovering.
(25:23):
And I'm really involved in that.
So I haven't been able to sit back and sort of assess what it all means yet.
Yeah.
It's a never ending journey, really, of self discovery.
Yeah, I do.
I believe that.
Yeah, absolutely.
And I think that's OK.
I don't think that there has to be sort of a sort of an assessment of it.
(25:43):
I don't know.
It's not it's not I like but I do like being in the conversation with other artists and
discussing that because it will lead to something even if we never answer that question.
And that's OK.
There are unanswered questions.
And but I like the conversations about what it all means.
There's that that's always been intriguing.
(26:06):
It's beautiful.
Well, that's it for today's episode.
So thank you so much, Nicole, for sharing such beautiful pieces of your art and heart.
Thanks so much, Brianna.
This has been wonderful.
Thank you for the excellent questions.
It's really been a pleasure speaking with you until next time, folks.
Thank you for listening for the Notes of the North.
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