Eps. #80 Authenticity in the Spotlight, Emmanuel Acho and Integrity of Content Creation, the Value of Shame, the Future of Streaming Sports & Storytelling Tips

In this episode Chad questions the recent tweets by sports analyst and author, Emmanuel Acho about a fake news article, the importance and value of shame, streaming services, and answers questions from his Instagram. 

Tune in Tuesdays and Thursdays at 12PM ET to watch the show live on Youtube. Follow @chadsand on Instagram and subscribe to the Nothing But Anarchy Youtube channel for full interviews and more anarchy!

Executive Produced by: Chad Sanders
Produced by: Morgan Williams

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is Nothing but Anarchy, the show that explores
and subverts sports,entertainment, media, Hollywood,
a bunch of other stuff.
Whatever you think isinteresting, let me do it here.
Welcome to Nothing but Anarchy.
Welcome to Nothing but Anarchy.
Morgan, what's hard abouthaving a bob?
Morgan was just starting totell me why it's hard having a
bob.
She has a bob.

Speaker 2 (00:17):
Because when you leave the salon you look one way
and then when you try torecreate what they did in the
salon, it's impossible.

Speaker 1 (00:26):
OK, I relate.
I'm going to the salon thisevening to get my the salon to
get my hair twisted on NotionAvenue in Flatbush, where they
do it the best.
All right, let's start here.
I'm I am of high energy,although I lost a lot of steam
just now.
Ok, here's we go.
Transparency we are in adifferent studio than we are

(00:47):
Usually.
We have been in here for whatis this week three in this
studio.
We've been in here for a coupleof weeks to two.
We've been in here for the last.
This is the fourth episode inhere and a learning from being
in a different studio Actually,I don't know if it's a learning
just as much as so much of myjob as Speaker.

(01:11):
I suppose let's just call itthat is like having the
instrument myself in the rightposition and environment, like
to do the thing and it.
I think it would be surprisingto anybody who has not done this
sort of specific job, and Idon't just mean like podcasting

(01:33):
or speaking or some sort ofperformative exercise, but
everything from the type ofcoffee that you drink to your
commuting parking, like thephysical space, the layout where
the people are oriented in theroom, like these are all things
that matter I took.
I spoke to like a performancecoach recently as I was talking

(01:56):
to this person about actually, acouple of people have given me
this advice.
As I was talking to this personabout starting to do our live
shows, I was given the advicePlant the people in the room who
you are close to, who you feela connection to, exactly where
you want them seated in the roomfor your shows as you, as you

(02:17):
ramp them up.
And what's interesting is for me, I don't think that's like
right in the front, I think it'sprobably somewhere in the
middle, because in the front,this, this is actually going to
dovetail well into aconversation I didn't expect to
have, but we'll start here andthen we're going to get into a
manual.
Okay, so anybody who knows whoa manual is and anybody who

(02:38):
knows who I am know that that'sgoing to be fun.
So, um, why are you laughing?

Speaker 2 (02:45):
Because I could see how that's true.

Speaker 1 (02:49):
So I grew up with parents.
I grew up as a coach's son.
My dad was my basket.
My dad was a D1 basketballplayer.
I talk about that all the time.
I was very far from a D1basketball player, but I was
pretty good ball player.
My dad was the type of coach,the type of my friends call my
dad scout that is his nicknamebecause he would literally post

(03:11):
up in the hallway and watch ourpractices.
Sometimes in high school he was, you know, right on top of me
as my coach from the time I wasprobably six until I was maybe
12 or 13.
Um, my dad has spoken to me inbasketball and sports metaphors
basically my entire life.
Uh, and almost.
You know, think about it ashyperbolically as you can Like

(03:35):
when you think about the coach'sson.
Um, I represent so many ofthose things.
All these ideas about like focusand leadership and action and
practice and preparation andlike all those things are some.
A lot of those things are whyI'm how I am right now.

(03:56):
A lot of those things are why Iwas texting Morgan last night
at 11 o'clock about a Vimp rightIs and you know what.
And it's also probably why Ilike Morgan so much is because
she is an athlete Like she is.
She is, she was like a highlevel division one athlete.
So she I think many of theseforms of communication are
native to Morgan I think I canactually just feel from Morgan

(04:20):
is seems to be more comfortablewith the idea of I'm using this
term definitionally, no sauce onit, like chain of command, in a
way that a lot of Gen Z peopleare not in a lot of way, in a
way that a lot of millennialpeople are not.

Speaker 2 (04:34):
That's a whole other conversation, because I feel
like my senior year the freshmenwere not into chain of command
at all and you probably hatedthat.
It's going away, yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:42):
Well, and and and.
So what's refreshing about thatis that you know where you
stand on stuff, like you know.
You know when things are goingto get done, you know when
things are not going to get done, you know when things are going
well, you know when things arefucking up.
Morgan has, like, that sort ofattitude.

(05:03):
Everybody doesn't have thatsort of attitude and I am
getting more.
It's funny I'm getting, I guess, because I'm getting older,
maybe, but like I used to be soanti chain of command when I
worked like at a tech startupyou know what I mean I was like
fucking herding cats.
We all were all of usmillennials working for the Gen
Xers we were all like herdingcats.
We all wanted to do whatever wewanted.
We had so many feelings, youknow, oh, you know I, I know you

(05:25):
told me to do it like this, butI chose to do it like that
because the fucking shockers andthe crystals told me that I
felt better when I do it likethis and I'm all moody and my
vision is so important in myfuture and I'm getting because
so much has to get done rightnow.
I'm getting a lot more enamoredby the idea of we communicate
directly.

(05:45):
We say what's going to happenand we try to make it happen,
and if it fails we try somethingelse.
But there's not a whole lot inthe way of like.
I think, morgan, in ourcommunications there's not a
whole lot in the way of likefuzzy gray area.
Would you agree with that?

Speaker 2 (06:01):
Like you mean like room for confusion.

Speaker 1 (06:03):
Yeah, no, yeah, and we're, and we've gotten better
at it, because six months ago wehad a conversation where it was
like we got to get better atthis yeah.
We were like what's going on?
Anyway, that's not the point,that's not what I'm even trying
to talk about, um self, what Iactually wanted to say was back
to the point I want.
This is why I started down thatpath, because I got I started

(06:27):
to feel I can feel too hot on methe point of view of the people
who I know best in the room.
I I can read them too well andI don't want to be reading them
while I'm doing my job, so Iwant them in the middle of the
room.
I want the people who are sortof new to me in the front of the

(06:48):
room.
I want the people who actuallyfeel like they're getting a
pretty cool experience to bethere with me.
I want those people in thefront who have never seen me
speak before, who have neverfelt my you know what I'm like
in real life before, who havenever, like, met me and vice
versa.
I've never met them.
And why this is important.

(07:09):
Why this?
Why I'm talking about this, isbecause I often find I'm
realizing something which issomething that's just a normal
part of my life right now is ifwe don't talk on a daily basis,
if we talk on a semi-regularbasis, like, let's say, we, we

(07:30):
connect, we text or talk, maybelike once or twice a month.
If we're on that sort ofrelationship, it is likely then
that if you hit me up, um, andI'm kind of in the middle of
something and by the in themiddle of something I mean I'm
in the middle of this wholething right now it can be like
two weeks before I get back toyou and most people, I would say

(07:54):
, actually are quite comfortablewith that and quite
understanding and like theyunderstand that's just like a
part of life and a part of arhythm of someone who is doing a
job and who's trying to buildsomething, et cetera, et cetera,
et cetera.
The people who do not get thatare and this extends to
something further that I'm aboutto speak to the people who do

(08:15):
not get that are the people whoyou once were extremely close to
, are the people who you oncedid talk to every single day and
that relationship has changed.
They, they expect that you willbe available to that sort of
contact immediately, at amoment's notice, three years
after you guys had thatrelationship, just because

(08:36):
that's how they remember it tobe last.
And that extends over to thisidea of doing this live show in
my hometown, where I am verygrateful that it seems like many
people have started to buytickets.
But I know there are some peoplewho will hit me up the day of
or the day before the show whenthere are no more tickets left

(08:59):
on sale and they will say yo,what's like?
Where's the link for thetickets?
Again, like, oh shit, like I'mrunning late from this thing,
from that thing, this thing.
First of all, 85% of them aregoing to send me that text and
the text is going to turn green.
That's the first thing.
Okay, like most of y'all aregoing to realize, at that moment

(09:22):
you don't have my number.
The remaining 15%, who do havemy number, are not going to get
a reply from me until probably,not even just until after the
show's over, but until I want totalk to them again because they
will have frustrated me by notbeing there, because they
thought listen, my sister isbuying tickets to this, my

(09:45):
brother-in-law buying tickets,my cousins buying tickets.
Okay, my cousins are bringingtheir friends, they're buying
tickets.
So, if you are under the soundof my voice and your name is not
Mr or Mrs Sanders, literally,literally If you want to come to
the show.
This is from now until forever.
Okay, starting now, if you wantto come to the show, if you

(10:07):
want to be at the live show, yougot to buy a ticket.
And I say this I know you guyswant me to make myself small for
you, so I will.
I say this so humbly.
I say this with the greatestgratefulness that you would even
want to be there, that youwould even try to show up late
without a ticket on the day of.
But if you do that, you aregoing to encounter a locked door

(10:29):
and I don't and I'm saying thisbecause I don't want you to be
mad at me about that so ifyou're in that camp, please this
was not even meant to turn intoan appeal to get the late folks
to go get your tickets, butlike somebody I've never met is
going to have that ticket, Iwould love for you to have that
ticket.
So please go buy tickets to thelive show.
At the link of my bio or atshanklinhallcom

(10:53):
S-H-A-N-K-L-I-N-H-A-L-Lcom.
That's where you can find yourtickets.
You should use you.
You, I would say you can andshould get them right now,
because we're about to turn upthe promotion and they will sell
out Like we sold.
I don't know.
We sold a nice handful of themwithout really doing any
promotion, so please go and buyyour tickets.
That's it, yes, morgan.

Speaker 2 (11:13):
I was going to say that is correct, like at
spelling these.

Speaker 1 (11:16):
S-Thank you, Morgan S-Did that make you-.
S-Thank you, morgan.
I feel like I have much betterenergy today than I have for the
last couple episodes.
Here's a few reasons why One Idid not eat bacon, cheddar
waffles with jalapeno, hushpuppies and cheese grits last
night, which is so good for myperformance the next day.

(11:37):
It means I get to sleep throughthe whole night.
I put Penny in her pen lastnight.
Sometimes I let Penny roam andthen she like annoys me at early
in the morning.
I'm excited about our live show.
I think I'm getting paid today.
I'm really excited about that.
I'm excited about a lot.
I'm just like there's just likeso much.
We have live show coming.

(11:58):
I have a sub-stack coming verysoon.
I had just got the firsttrailer last night from my
interview with Nina Gloster,which I think is gonna really
have a nice little local buzzaround our combined community.
The show's growing.
I have a book coming out.
We're gonna start working onlike covers and typeface and I'm

(12:18):
very excited to reveal thetitle.
I just like there's a lot ofgood stuff happening.
I'm learning a lot right now.
I'm learning about marketingand it feels really good for me
to like, for me to nerd out onsomething again a little bit.
I remember when I learned howto read a screenplay and it felt
like I was opening a new doorin the matrix and I feel like
learning about marketing rightnow is kind of like that.

(12:39):
I'm learning a lot aboutadvertising spend and percentage
of paths through rate andclicks, click rates and all
kinds of shit.
I just feel kind of like backin the lab.
But let's talk about this andI'm gonna take my time with this
because there's a lot.

(13:00):
There's so much to say here.
So there's a lot to say here.
Emmanuel Acho, do you all knowwho that is?
Not at home in front of yourcomputer, if you know who that
is or on the train, or whereveryou're listening to this?
Where do you guys listen tothis show?
Tell me, manuel Acho, how wouldI describe this person?

(13:22):
He is a boy, do I not wanna getthis wrong?
But I'm gonna say he's Nigerian.
Is that correct?
Anybody know he is a formerfootball player.
He is Nigerian.
Okay, great, I knew that he isa former.
And listen, why am I evencontextualizing?
Just to start, I'm gonna go.

(13:43):
I'm gonna really take my timewith this one because I have a
lot of shit to get off here.
Why am I contextualizing bysaying that he is Nigerian,
because and boy is this anopinion that will get you
incinerated and barbecued to africassee at brunch but it is my
point of view that theexperience of black Americans

(14:07):
whose ancestors were slaves isin this country and also like in
other parts of America, likeSouth America, central America,
brazil, which has more blackpeople than anywhere else in the
world except for Africa.
It's my opinion that all theseexperiences are different, of

(14:28):
course, but like the experienceof African immigrants,
descendants of Africanimmigrants, here in this country
, as I've actually heardEmmanuel Acho say himself and
I'm gonna paraphrase what hesaid in an interview that I
heard, maybe a year ago, of hisoh, it was one of his follow-up

(14:52):
interviews to his book, which iscalled.

Speaker 2 (14:55):
The Uncomfortable Conversations.

Speaker 1 (14:56):
It's called Uncomfortable Conversations with
a Black man.
He was saying that and againI'm paraphrasing, but this was
the nature of the statement.
These are conversations that aNigerian man can have with white
people because he doesn't havethe same debt of anger and

(15:21):
resentment and pain that a blackAmerican person might have as a
result of slavery.
Okay, woo, I'm gonna take mytime here, because this one is a
fucking.
This is like a fucking tonguetwister right here, because you
guys are gonna be ready to beassholes about this.

Speaker 2 (15:36):
Also we can specify that he's Nigerian-American.

Speaker 1 (15:39):
Nigerian-American.
Yes, indeed yes, but I'm tryingto like.
I don't wanna be the show thatfucking walks with such a little
tippy toe that I don't actuallyend up saying anything.
So I just wanna be clear.
What I'm saying is, like thepeople whose grandmas, grandmas,
grandmas, grandmas, grandmaswere slaves, have a different
experience in this country thanthe people's, than the black

(16:01):
folks whose grandmas, grandmas,grandmas, lived in Africa.
Different is what I said.
How can you even attack me forthat Cause?
All I said was fuckingdifferent Doesn't mean that they
don't encounter racism here,like here in this country,
because quite the to quite thecontrary, like, if you, if you
bear the mark, if you got thedark skin of any hue, you are

(16:24):
going to face that in thiscountry and throughout this
entire world, pretty much Okay.
That's why I included thecontext.
That's really just for anybodywho cares to listen to things
the way that I care to listen tothings.
I like to really know what's upwith people when I'm hearing
about what they got going on.
I like to know how old they are, how tall they are, how much
they weigh, if they're marriedsingle, who they're married to.

(16:46):
I just found out last nightTony Gonzalez, the former NFL
tight end.
His ex-wife is engaged to JeffBezos.
Blew my mind.
That is irrelevant here, but Ijust think it's interesting.
Okay, don't you all thinkthat's interesting?
That is interesting, that'sinteresting.
Is that interesting to you?

Speaker 2 (17:01):
I don't really know who the fuck is this?

Speaker 1 (17:04):
Okay?
Well, you don't know.
Tony Gonzalez Okay, he was oneof the best tight ends in NFL
history.
His ex-wife cheated on herhusband with Jeff Bezos, who
cheated on his wife.
The two of them are now engagedand someone tried to blackmail
Jeff Bezos about having thatextramarital affair with her and
then they came out and nowthey're engaged.

(17:24):
So she went from Tony Gonzalez,rich to this like newscaster
guy, I wanna say, or producer,probably pretty rich to the
richest person in the history ofthe world.
All right, I think.
Emmanuel Acho Okay, emmanuelAcho, if you bring up his name

(17:47):
around blacks, as it were, Imean, we're blacks If you bring
up his name around blacks, Itold you we're gonna have some.
We're going to have some funhere because there's a lot to do
with this.
Okay, this is a.
There are some times when I feellike when I was in high school,
especially my junior year, Iwanted to get in the game so bad

(18:11):
we all did, but our coach onlyreally wanted to play six guys
Brandon, dominique, germain,kelvin, kevin and Ashile as six
man.
Okay, those are the guys whogot all the minutes.
The rest of us would sit on thebench doing our little legs
like this.
Every time, coach, somethingwould happen in the game and he
needed a sub, he would look downthe bench and we would all look
at him like this, like this,and he's like, look, be me, be
me, be me, pick me, pick me,pick me.

(18:31):
And when he actually one timewould pick me every now and when
he picked you, it's like youfeel like you're floating up to
the scores table.
Okay, that's when I saw thisstory about Emmanuel Acho.
That is how I felt like God hadpicked me to float to the
scores table.
Okay, I only get that feelinghere and fucking there, and I

(18:55):
have it right now, because whenyou bring up Emmanuel Acho's
name around blacks and whenthere's no cameras on, when
there's no one recording I'mjust talking about when
motherfuckers are kicking it,okay, and this is a cautionary

(19:20):
tale.
This is what I never want to bethe case for myself.
When his name comes, what areyou laughing at, morgan?
No, because you're being funny.
When his name comes up aroundblacks, motherfuckers suck their
teeth, roll their eyes, andmostly what you just get is that
nigga, because he has becomeknown for being someone who will

(19:48):
really tiptoe along and crossthat line of tap dancing.
That's what it is.
Y'all want me to say itdifferent?
I have the commenters in myhead like y'all think it's this,
y'all think it's that.
Look, if you think I never comefor white people, you just met
me.
Go do your homework, get out myface, get out my fucking face.
If that's how you feel, wow, Ifeel so good today, I'm gonna go

(20:08):
do my homework.
That's how you feel.
Wow, I feel so good today.
I have to say this about thisbecause I have never spoken on
Emmanuel Acho.
I have never said not onesingle solitary word, because,
for the most part, when peoplelike Emmanuel Acho arise in
culture, what I mostly want todo is ignore them.
I don't want to fuel the fire.

(20:30):
That is what I see of EmmanuelAcho.
Let me tell you what I see,nevermind what other people say.
When they roll their teeth atbrunch, roll their teeth, when
they suck their teeth and rolltheir eyes at brunch and say
that nigga, because I know whatthey're saying and I'm saying
the same thing.
This is what they're saying.
I told you guys there couldhave been a faster route from

(20:52):
the time my book dropped to amillion dollars, from the time
my book dropped to a millionfollowers and it would have
looked like exactly likeEmmanuel Acho's route had I.
It was right there, it waspaved in gold, it was standing.
It was like, ah, it wasshimmering right in front of me
and on the other end of it iswhite people going like this.

(21:14):
They're like playing tug of warwith my identity, with my
person, okay, with my humanity.
They're trying to pull me downthis little golden path and into
a piranha's mouth by doing this.
Emmanuel Acho's book is calledUncomfortable Conversation with
a Black man.
I've seen him do manyinterviews on it.
I saw him do it.
I have a contentiousconversation with a black man

(21:37):
named Van Lathen on higherlearning with Van Lathen and
Rachel Lindsay, and thecontentiousness was because of
this exact phenomenon, which ispeople think Emmanuel Acho be
doing a dance for the motherfolks, that he be selling us out
to make money, to be the onewho is chosen to come to the

(22:03):
corporation and do the talk, togo to the event and do the talk,
to build relationships with thewhite power players in media
and be seen as a blacktranslator to white people.
When I went to go sell blackmagic to Simon and Schuster,
okay, I forget about even when Igot to that meeting.
But let's keep that meeting inmind.
Actually, let's not forget it.
Do the opposite of what I justsaid.

(22:24):
Imagine this meeting.
Okay, because this?
I went to several bookpublishers and had similar
meetings.
I took six or seven bookmeetings to sell.
My book Just got signed brandnew off the street no money 2017
.
Got a book agent so excited EveAderman.
Shout out to her she's a fireass book agent.
I really enjoy working with her.

(22:44):
We go to Simon and Schuster.
I sit down in a room.
It's me, it's the head of theSimon and Schuster imprint at
Simon and Schuster White man 50s.
I wanna say there's a coupleother editors in the room.
My agent all white folks, me ata table, broke, black t-shirt.

(23:05):
You guys know what I used tolook like.
The same thing every day blackt-shirt, long one from Urban
Outputters Feathers, black jeans, ripped up, black boots.
I was really selling it.
Okay, I was really sellingRyder guy.
That's what I was going for.
Okay, I was pulling it off.

(23:26):
Black glasses, warby Parker's.
And they asked me what booksabout?
Oh, it's about black magic.
It's like lessons that blackpeople learn from suffering in
this country and how they canapply it to this, this, this,
this.
Okay, cool, sounds great onpremise.
Great time for that in themarket.
Okay, what's your following looklike?

(23:47):
Uh, nothing, I got, you know,probably at that time, 1500
followers on Instagram, maybe Idon't know.
900 followers on Twitter, maybeNobody, I got nothing.
Okay, I'm doing my best, guys,I'm broke.
I'm doing my best.
Shit took the train here,everybody takes the train here,

(24:11):
whatever.
Blah, blah, blah.
I'm gonna ask you all thesequestions.
Then they land on the mostimportant question.
Most important question who isthe demographic for this book?
You haven't written the bookyet.
Tell us, who are you going tobe talking to when you write
this book?
That is an existential questionfor a creative person.

(24:32):
That is the I've been trying totell you on these last few
sessions in this room.
That is the whole thing.
Who are you talking to?
Because, as a communicator, Iknow what I have to communicate,
but if I'm talking to someonewho speaks Portuguese, I need to
speak Portuguese.
Or I need to make a song soeverybody can understand it, but

(24:53):
if I need, I need to know as Isit down to write every single
day at some level, I gotta knowwho the fuck is this book for?
I'm saying these are tacticsfor black people to be able to
navigate what is a poisonous,treacherous workplace, to get
somewhere in life.
They're asking me who is thebook for?

(25:13):
If I now say white people, thatis going to create an
existential conflict in me thatI'm gonna have to unravel.
I'm gonna be grappling with forthe entire creative process of
this book.
I said this book is supposed tobe tactics for black people, but
I'm writing it for white people.
I'm gonna tell you guyssomething, as someone who has
been communicating with tons ofblack people my whole life and

(25:35):
tons of white people my wholelife you don't talk to those two
people the same.
Anybody who's seen this showand has seen quitters knows
exactly what I'm talking about.
You don't speak the samelanguage to black folks and
white folks.
That's how I feel, and everytime I had to give this, I had
to while being broke, whileunderstanding that maybe there

(25:56):
would be a bigger market forthis book if it was written for
white people.
I wanted to stay solid righthere and say I wanted what I
still want for the duration ofmy career to remain true, which
is that, as Jay-Z puts it, Iwanna be good on every MLK
boulevard.
That's part of my dream.
Morgan's laughing.

(26:17):
My people love me.
I want them to keep loving me.
Okay, I did your book, saw allthese white folks pop out of the
corners of the universe who I'dnever seen before strangers,
old people hitting me up on myphone that I don't even fucking
know anymore from middle schooland stuff.
Great, happy to have you guyshere.

(26:38):
But you cannot take the seatsthat of the folks that have
already been sitting here sinceI was a little kid.
Okay, you cannot take the seatsof the people who started
fucking with me when they saw apress release for me and Spike
Lee about a black genius.
You can't take the seats of thepeople who started following me
because I wrote on grown-ishrap, shit, black magic.
You can't have their seat.
There are other seats here.
It's like when you go to thosechurches in Harlem and you got

(27:03):
the congregation here on thefloor.
You got the grandmas who havebeen worshiping here for 50
years and then in the balconythe Spanish immigrants can sit
up there, the visitors, thetourists, and if you stick
around long enough you can get afloor seat.
Am I, is this comprehensiveCoherence is what I meant to ask

(27:23):
.
Is it coherent?

Speaker 2 (27:24):
Very visual.

Speaker 1 (27:24):
Okay, thank you.
I had to decide then whilebroke am I about to start off
down this journey, punting on myown people as the audience for
my creativity?
Am I about to try to do thatout the gate?
Because and I didn't know it,know it, but I had enough smart

(27:46):
people around me.
People had seen things enoughto tell me, once you set
intention, like once you start,once your boat leaves the dock,
you can make incremental shiftsin the direction, but it's
really hard to turn that shit 90degrees.
Okay.
So I kept saying over and overand over again this is a book

(28:09):
for black people and I'm goingto write it in a way that it
will resonate so strongly withblack people that white people
will cup their ear to it.
Okay, so if you want thosewhite people to care about it,
they will, but they will be thesecondary audience, because
that's what happens when we makefire shit.

(28:30):
We get excited about it.
First we think it's cool,people start looking over our
shoulders ooh, what they lookingat?
And now they want some of itand I had a sense that, like,
that could work for me.
I didn't what I didn't realize,and so I don't want to come off
as a fucking hero, like Ididn't know that would make the
road take much longer than adifferent path.

(28:50):
Mayu Acho has taken a differentpath.
Mayu Acho is a former NFLplayer.
He's in his 30s, I'm going tosay he's 38.
Formerly the boyfriend ofYvonne Orgy, which is just an
anecdote that I'm just going tothrow in there and just leave it
right there.
I have nothing else to sayabout it.
He's 33.
33, wow, he's young.
Oh boy, well, that's crazy.

(29:12):
Yeah, that adds some contexthere.
Actually, okay, wow, Accordingto Wikipedia.
Okay, I want to be like 20%nicer about this then.
Why is that?
Because he's young.
Yeah, why is that Because he'syoung?
I mean because he's, for allintents and purposes, he's my
age like and younger.
I mean he's younger than me and, like I do think that over,

(29:35):
like every few years, you get alittle bit hipper to the game of
what's happening here.
You get a little like you getthese moments where you're like,
oof, I did something, got a bigcheck and it did not feel good.
Why didn't it feel good?
And you examine like, oh, itdidn't feel good because I
worked with the wrong people, oroh, it didn't feel good because
the audience was a little,maybe a little nauseous, or oh,

(29:57):
it didn't feel good becausewhatever.
So I want to shoot him a littlebit of bail for being 33, but
that's not that young.
So fuck it.
Here I go.
I'm sorry.
He decided and he stood on thisand he has doubled down on this

(30:18):
in his interviews, in his talks.
He is a face jumping up anddown on Fox Sports, but he wrote
a book called DifficultConversations with a Black man
Uncomfortable Sorry,uncomfortable, I gotta stop
calling it that UncomfortableConversations with a Black man

(30:38):
and it buzzed and he toured itand I believe it buzzed.
I of course have not writtenthe book, so I don't even ask
that Read the book or bought thebook.
He toured it and there was awave as I watched it from a
distance.
There was a wave of celebrationfirst.
That happened Sort of just.
There's a general wave ofcelebration just any time a

(31:00):
Black person gets a bookpublished, because that's
difficult to do.
Then there was a following wavewhich was like almost a mini
celebration.
All this happens before anybodyreads the book.
Right, this is because ofmarketing.
Everybody's like oh,interesting subject, title,
interesting subject matter,whatever, whatever.
And it quickly became clearthrough the internet
conversation around this bookthat this was a book written to

(31:23):
inform and appease white people.

Speaker 2 (31:27):
Do you wanna just say the year that it was published,
sure 2020.

Speaker 1 (31:31):
2020, meaningful right.
2020 is that's George Floyd.
That is what we call, ladiesand gentlemen, product market
fit.
He wrote a book to help whitepeople have conversations with
what he was portraying to beangry Black men, and the book

(31:54):
had success and he has sincebeen sort of riding a wave of a
watered down Jason Whitlockianpresence on the internet and in
media, and I haven't even gottento the most recent thing that
he did, but the point that I'mlaying out here is that he is a

(32:14):
person who is willing to do thething, who is willing to go.
I don't know what his likeintercompice tells him to do,
but he is willing to do thething for the money.
He is willing to do the thingfor the click.
He is willing to do the thingthat white folks require of him
to get a check, and I'm like the1,000th person to say that into

(32:36):
a microphone, like his owncolleagues have said things like
.
Now I'm gonna hedge away fromsaying the names, but you can go
look up, just go Google.
What do Black people thinkabout Emmanuel Acho?
Okay, you can go to that Now.
The most recent thing EmmanuelAcho did and I'm ready to stop

(32:57):
talking about Emmanuel Acho,because now.
This regards all of us.
Caleb Williams, likely to be thenumber one pick in the NFL
draft this upcoming year.
Now, like in a few months,when's the draft?
April, two months, three months.
I have a bias.
He's from DC.

(33:18):
He went to Gonzaga High School.
He's the number one player inthe country.
He's been a star for USC blackkid father's, very involved in
his life and in what he does.
He is a story that I think canbe celebrated.
There's a lot of conversationright now about his draft stock,
his draft status, what kind ofprospect he is like.

(33:39):
That's the state of that's whatit is when you're the number
one pick is.
People are gonna pick at youand pick at you, and pick at you
all the way through untilyou're drafted and then all the
way through your career, justlike what just happened with
Bryce Young this past year andBryce Young sucked.
Sorry, bryce Young, but yousucked.
But I'm rooting for you.
The internet tricked EmmanuelAcho.
Okay, a fake story.

(34:01):
There are a lot of fake storiesout there.
There are a lot of fakeaccounts out there.
There are so many people whoare just manufacturing bullshit
for clicks.
This is not news to anybody.
We know this.
You can sell those clicks foradvertising dollars.
You make money off of makingsomething fake.
It was a fake story that cameout about Caleb Williams
refusing to go and play for whothe Chicago Bears if they were

(34:25):
to draft him.
And the Chicago Bears have thenumber one pick.
Manuel Acho saw that, jumped onit, made a TikTok, responding
to it and basically said ifthat's the kind of person this
is like, you shouldn't want himas the number one pick more.
You're looking at the story.
That is accurate, right?

Speaker 2 (34:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (34:44):
I'm gonna read to you guys.

Speaker 2 (34:45):
I also.
We have the TikTok if you wannaplay it.

Speaker 1 (34:48):
Oh, please.

Speaker 3 (34:50):
I've never seen anything like this.
No, not this freaking pimple.
The fact that Caleb Williams hesays he wants assurances that
the Bears are going to trade thenumber one overall pick before
he declares for the draft, CalebWilliams lost nothing to do
with the Chicago Bears.
Here is why the Bears have yetto have a 4,000 yard passer in
the history of their illustriousfranchise.
Never have they had a 4,000yard passer in their franchise

(35:13):
history.
So what Caleb Williams issaying is the gravitational pull
downward of the Bears is toostrong for him to lift that
franchise up.
This is wild stuff from acollege quarterback.
I'm gonna keep y'all updated.

Speaker 1 (35:24):
Okay, all of that straining and hard breathing in
response to that video.
It was fake.
I mean, in response to thatinformation, like it was fake.
He got fooled by the internetand the first thing I wanna say
about that is we all get fooledby the internet.
It happens to all of us.
Like the internet is, it can bea tricky and treacherous place.
There's so much misinformationflying around.
It's why you have to be veryspecific and thoughtful about

(35:47):
what accounts you follow.
You gotta read, you reallygotta read with a fine tooth
comb, like who tweeted what?
The headline shut up my minute.
She'll just sent me some fakenews yesterday from the internet
.
Okay, she'll just sent mesomething about something like
what's his name?
What's his name?
What's his name?
The Stroud, cj Stroud, and hiscomments about Jesus after the

(36:11):
game and that NBC was trying toshut, like, shut down his
comments about Jesus.
And then I go to the Twitteraccount and it's like a whole
stream of fake shit about Jesusand I'm like I'm like it's Sheel
, don't send me this, but she'lljust my guy Boy being.
You can be fooled by theinternet, but before we actually

(36:32):
get to, I'm not mad at EmmanuelAcho for being fooled by the
internet Like that can literallyhappen to anybody.
Somebody could tell me todaylike this is Chad.
That was a deep fake video.
It wasn't really Emmanuel Achobut blah blah blah.
You know what I would do.
I would come back one Thursdayand I would have popped and I'd
be like, damn, we got that onewrong.
We're actually creating a listof shit that I get wrong so I
can come back and tell you guyshow wrong I am, cause I think

(36:53):
that's, I think that's goodcontent.
But Emmanuel Acho did the thingthat I think most people do
when wrong, when fooled by theinternet, when embarrassed, when
called out by Twitter and otherpeople on TikTok for being
wrong about this story andresponding to a fake story, the
thing that he did was be astrident jerk about it and try

(37:14):
to, and in a moment ofembarrassment, when being told,
ha ha, look, how silly you arefor believing that information,
he wanted to then punch back andsay I'm not silly, I'm so much
smarter than you.
And this is how he did it.
He said in response to a tweetyes, in response to a tweet

(37:40):
calling him out for being wrong,emmanuel Acho responds.
Or for being fooled by this,emmanuel Acho responds.
In the event, it was fake.
I posted it to the leastserious website because no lives
are being lost based on thatpost, wrote Acho in response to
being called out about knowingthe story was fake.
Either way real or fake thevideo would garner traction,
which would increase followers.

(38:01):
More followers equals largerbrand deals.
Understand Wow, what a blowhard.
Wow, god, I'm so sorry.
Wow, guys and so.
When I like wow, that's likesome George Santos type shit,

(38:21):
yeah I mean he's saying thequiet part loud while also being
an asshole about it, while alsotrying to step on somebody with
it and act.
And act like he was in front ofthis play or whatever, like yes
, we know, you wroteUncomfortable conversations with
a black man.
You didn't have to tell us thatyou're doing all this for brand
deals.
You didn't have to tell usyou're doing this all for

(38:43):
sponsors.
You didn't have.
We are yet understand.
Yes, we already understood thatit didn't need to be made clear
that was an annoying way to endthe tweet understand question
mark but like I Guess the thingthat I respond to here, like
some of my friends have asked merecently, it's it's been coming
up over weeks at this point now, except for Leon.

(39:04):
I'm gonna say what Leon said,but my friends have been asking
me over weeks if I have seenAmerican fiction, which I know
from the marketing is to be likethe horror story of the black
writer who sells out on theiractual vision and creativity To
appease white people.
And what happens there.

Speaker 2 (39:25):
It does have comedic elements, though.

Speaker 1 (39:27):
Thank you, morgan.
Um and Leon was the only one onthe front end of this whole
thing.
He probably saw it beforeanybody because he's very inside
Hollywood and he saw it beforeit came out and he, like I Could
tell he already knew the ideaof me going to see that movie
was laughable, like I was nevergoing to.
I Don't think, I mean just, I'mjust gonna be frank.

(39:50):
From the marketing itself, Idid not look, it was not
enticing.
I wasn't like, oh my god, Igotta go see that.
That looks really smart, but ontop of that is that mean,
that's a little mean.
It's what it is.

Speaker 2 (40:02):
Yeah, no, that's how you feel.

Speaker 1 (40:04):
Okay, thank you, not mean.
The Morgan mean meter isimportant to me, but he also
knew, as I think many of myfriends have known, I was going
to feel too close to the maincharacter story to be able to
stomach watching what it lookslike when they lay down that
gold path in front of you.
That looks just so.
It's like, oh, it's just soeasy.

(40:24):
Just show up and yakity, yakand talk about bullshit and and
say whatever the fuck they wantand fucking, you know what I
mean.
And just like, do your tapdance and like, make eyes wide
and tell you know, say, tell thesame stupid ass jokes over and
over again, like it's so rightthere, and Sometimes the people

(40:45):
who have taken the bait are soglaring.
It's like they're not even,like he's not even lying to us,
like he won't even lie.
That's crazy, it's.
Please respond.
Does anyone else feel this?
He won't even lie, he won'teven be like, oh yeah, he won't
even.

Speaker 2 (41:03):
Is that respectable, like not him, but I'm saying, is
it respectable that he's atleast like honest about being
fucked up like that?

Speaker 1 (41:15):
Where does it?
I mean respectable, about beinghonest, about being fucked up?
Um, I, okay that's.
I'm glad you said that, becauseI Actually think that's what
the conventional point of viewis right now, which is as long
as you are spitting in my facebut looking me in the eye while
you do it.
It's okay, yeah and, and I man,I don't think that's okay, it's

(41:39):
not okay, I don't think that'sokay.

Speaker 2 (41:41):
It's not, but it is funny.

Speaker 1 (41:43):
That's like so true, that's the conventional wisdom.
Is like Abuse me, be disgusting, take, take whatever money.
Is like sell out, sell out,sell out, sell out and Damn.
I was actually literally gonnatry to avoid using the term sell
out the entire time and I saidit like 15 times, but I'm sorry.
Also got a book coming inFebruary about selling out so

(42:05):
exciting but tell us the title.
I will not say the title yetsoon, but um, I Thought okay One
is, I just didn't think thatwas honest.
I actually don't think what hesaid was honest.
I really just think he made amistake.
Like I don't think it was thismastermind plan that like, oh,

(42:27):
if it's fake, then this, and ifit's not fake, then I'll get
clicks, and this is.
I thought that was like that'swhat I think.
Yeah, that was like a knee-jerk,you know, excuse, or or him
trying to Whatever, him tryingto intellectualize why he made
this mistake.
But beyond that, I Feel thisway and I don't know if other
people feel this way, but like,yes, we are engaging with

(42:49):
people's internet presences.
We're engaging with people'smusic, movies, athletic personas
, avatars, you know, like we areengaging with the Internet form
of human beings, but just likea stock, I like to know that
there is an underlying asset,there's somewhere like a human
being underneath it, all thatstands at the bottom of it, that

(43:11):
all of these streams outwardActually represent.
Like I like to know thatthere's actually a person at the
foundation of that.
And if this dude is saying hiswhole, his whole being like his
whole, all of his actions arejust mechanical reactions to
what the algorithm favors, thenlike that is useless to me, like

(43:34):
that is not even something Ican connect to at all, which is
why I have avoided ever speakingthis person's name, ever
engaging with his content,because it's it's just like,
you're just that at that point,you are just the internet and
there's.
There's nothing else there.
That's what I think.
But yeah, I don't give him anypoint.
He was caught like there wasnothing else.
I don't know, there was nothinganyway.

(43:54):
Moving on, a comfortableConcepts with a black man, y'all
go get it on Amazon Morgan.
Is Moby Williams on Instagramat Moby Williams Morgan.
Are you getting some newInstagram followers?

Speaker 2 (44:04):
I have gotten a few yeah okay, great, we're gonna
keep.

Speaker 1 (44:06):
We're gonna keep promoting Morgan against her
will.
Josh asked a question while wewere at the break as a response
to the last segment.
Morgan is allowing us tobacktrack, backtrack into that
segment again because Josh askedand not because it's my will.
Thank you, morgan.

Speaker 4 (44:22):
Josh, please ask your question again so we were
talking in last episode aboutcheat codes and you, with this
whole Emmanuel Acho thing thatyou were just talking about,
like, to me it's very clear thatlike he's very shameless and my
question is to use like, do youfeel like being shameless in
this day and age, especially assomeone who's creating content
or just being a creative ingeneral, is being shameless, a

(44:43):
cheat code in this world now?

Speaker 1 (44:46):
I Think A cheat code that I'm paying attention to
right now is being clear withyourself about your intentions
and your point of view andMoving and Moving directly
toward said intention.

(45:06):
If your intention is simply tohave Fame and Perhaps a
following Brand deals, as mansaid I think I'm done with his
name for the rest of the episodebut If that is your intention,

(45:31):
then yeah, I would sayshamelessness is a cheat code.
I would say I think shame isimportant.
I think shame like I think yousaid it at the break I think
shame like Do like penny hasshame when she pees in the house
.
It's okay, guys, you can beshank, you can have shame
sometimes.
Shame is a.
It's a reminder to us that ourintention is something different

(45:52):
and we are stepping outside ofour character.
That's, we can overdo it like.
We can hold on to it too long.
We can let it, we can.
What he did in a moment of shame?
He?
What he did with what with this?
What a manual author did in amoment of shame was he tried To
step on somebody else's head andhe tried to act like he was
smarter than them and he triedto act like and I've actually I

(46:12):
was just watching this morning Isaw another Twitter interaction
he had with one of his formerteammates when he wanted to poke
at his ex teammate to say youonly get engagement when you use
my clips.
You only get engagement when andit's like now when people talk
about athletes in a way that isreductive pro athletes, football

(46:35):
players specifically in a waythat is reductive, and they say
why do we pay these guysmillions of dollars, like they,
just like they're just theiraction figures, their gi jose,
their airheads, that you justtell them what to do and they
just do the thing?
This is gross, guys, but that'swhat this looks like.
That's what just doing thething looks like it doesn't.
My nephews, if you just toldthem the whole job is just get

(47:00):
engagement, and you just saykeep pressing this button, like,
oh look, everybody thinks it'sthis.
Say this instead, regardless ofwhat you actually feel,
actually feel you will getengagement.
You will blow up.
Maybe you will become thepresident, like you said, but
like Is that sure?
Is that your own is your onlyintention in life.
To just Get bigger is your onlyintention in life.

(47:24):
This is why I'm learning how totake advice.
Okay, I did not love takingadvice in years previous to this
.
I'm learning how to take advice, and what Used to be difficult
for me with advice is so much ofanother, like there's so much
projection in people's advicethey're capable of doing that

(47:44):
there can be.
People are trying to Almostmanipulate the way that you see
yourself and how you see them,sometimes with advice.
I used to fucking hate advice,but I'm now learning.
I now am starting to feel like Ihave a constitution within
myself where I can withstandother people's advice and get
some good stuff out of it, and Ihave some people who offer me

(48:07):
advice who come from a veryspecific I'm gonna I'm gonna be
reductive and call it like aSilicon Valley lens, and that
lens, as I see it, is Valuablein that it has such intense
focus on scale, growth,profitability, making something

(48:31):
just like making something thatis potent and makes money and
and gives you power.
It completely devalues, if itacknowledges at all, artistry,
heart, humanity, what feels good, like, what you will enjoy

(48:52):
doing, who you already are like.
Those things are left to theside, and so it's important to
me to have people who give methat kind of advice, people who
give me artistic advice, peoplewho give me.
I love having some friends whojust truly don't give a fuck
like, who do not care about anyof this, this dumb shit, who are
like I got my life, I Do what Iwant, I Kick with my friends.

(49:15):
I see my family play videogames, smoke, we chill, do it.
I like I like my life and Idon't care about any of that
other silly shit.
Like I love having friends likethat.
I need all of it.
But the the, the, the lens ofthe sort of Growth only mindset
like when I listen to TimFerriss I gotta go listen to I

(49:36):
don't know, I gotta go listen tosomething on the other side of
the spectrum afterward, becausethat growth only mindset, that
mindset of like bigger, bigger,bigger, more, more, more, over
everything else, there's nothere there on the other end.
I was actually thinking about myHollywood friends this morning.
Like not and I don't mean likepeople I've met through
Hollywood, I mean like peoplewho are my friends, who moved to

(49:56):
Hollywood.
I've had a couple of toughconversations with some of them
lately who are depressed, sad,anxious.
We're like 12, 13, 14, 15 yearsinto this game, all of us now,
because we're about the same age, we started in our early 20s
and we're like in our mid tolate 30s.
And there's a similar mindsetthere in Hollywood which is just

(50:21):
access, green lights, money,status, prosthetic body parts
over everything.
Prostetic, I don't know, makebelieve body parts, no shame.
And my friends who are there Ithink part of why they're
unhappy is they actually gotwhat they came for and they're

(50:46):
still realizing like, oh, whatan emptiness.
Like, oh, my God, I worked sohard for this thing.
I wanted to have this HollywoodLA life.
I wanted to have the cool jobat the big studio and for people
to know, people back home who Inever get to see ever that I
have this car and I do thisthing.
But on the other end of it isjust emptiness.
Like same problems.

(51:07):
Now I hear myself saying shitthat old people had already told
us.
But it's like same problems.
Same not knowing who you are.
Same, oh, like I guess I gottago play golf with so-and-so
because I need to be in hisnetwork.
No, thank you, fuck outta here.
Okay, no, thank you.

(51:28):
I wanna go walk in the woodswith my nephews, all right.
Moving on Sports Sports.
Okay, sports are pure.
So, all right, I'm gonna bangthrough these Bang, bang, bang,
bang, bang, bang, bang, bang,bang bang, because there's a
bunch of them and they're allinteresting.
All right, chiefs Dolphins Manypeople were up in arms

(51:52):
including your boy about Peacockhaving the Chiefs Dolphins game
on Saturday night.
I was like not only just likehow am I gonna be able to watch
this, but like how's my dadgonna find this?
You know what I mean.
And I think he figured it out.
He didn't even hit me, or maybehe was just like I can't find
it, fuck it and watch the movie.
I don't know.
But as it turns out, here's thething 23 million people watched

(52:17):
Chiefs Dolphins, which is asolid number for that game.
It's not like huge, but the NFLgets crazy numbers.
Okay, in the last year, out ofthe top 100 watched programs on
television, like 87 of them wereNFL games.
That's how powerful thisproduct is, as Morgan writes

(52:38):
here.
Actually, I'm gonna come backto that.
So Peacock had 30 million usersbefore this game.
16 million people watched thisgame on Peacock.
That is by a billion, not abillion, but that is by a
landslide their largest watchprogram of their existence.
And I don't know how many ofthose people are people who just

(53:00):
signed up for Peacock beforethe game and then got rid of
Peacock right after it, becauseI'm sure there were quite a few
of those.
But the whole thing aboutsubscriptions by the way, I have
a subscription product onSubstack coming out on February
14th, valentine's Day.
You can find the link in my bioif you want email updates.
The whole thing aboutsubscriptions is you're hoping
people will forget that theysubscribed, like you want them
to subscribe $12 a month oh,it's $12 bucks.

(53:23):
Like I spend $25 on Uber Eatsevery night, or 100 if you live
in New York.
But you want them to subscribeand then forget.
And I bet they got so manypeople to subscribe for this
thing.
Who will forget that Peacock istaking?
I have no idea how much Peacockhas cost.
Let's say $10 a month $5.99.
$5.99, oh, that's nice and cheap.

Speaker 2 (53:40):
Yeah, it's not bad $6 out of your.

Speaker 1 (53:41):
It's not bad because there's nothing on it.
$6 a month out of your accountevery month.
They want them to forget that.
That's what's happening, buthere's what's important to me.
Okay, this is what I actuallythink the future looks like.
Yes, maybe bundles will stayaround for a little while and
bundles will look just like thecable package, et cetera, et
cetera, et cetera.
I am moving into a, I'm movingin a direction where it's like

(54:06):
because I think this is whereit's going If you want Chad
stuff, you just pay for the Chadchannels.
You pay for the Chad sub-stack.
You pay for the Chad live show,you pay for the.
I'll still who knows what thehot social media will be five
years from now.
I assume I'll still have anInstagram presence, because
that's sort of like a bigbillboard to tell you where all

(54:29):
my other stuff is.
But it's like it's all a cart.
If you want the stuff, you payme for the stuff, because these
deals are so lopsided for thestudios it doesn't make sense
for me to go through them to getto you guys.
Now, peacock just proved to ESPN, nbc, abc that these little

(54:55):
itty bitty, little itty bitty bycomparison streaming networks
can do ridiculously notridiculously but competitively
large numbers on one individualfootball game that it makes it
worth it for the NFL to dobusiness directly with these
streaming networks.
I think I'm talking in a waythat's confusing.
I'm gonna be super, superspecific as to what this means

(55:17):
and what's gonna happen.
It means that it is likely thatat some point, whenever the
current TV deal ends with, Ithink, probably ABC and the NFL
I don't know who has the SuperBowl, you're gonna have to pay
pay per view, like you're gonnahave to pay for a subscription
service like this one to watchthe Super Bowl soon, because the

(55:38):
NFL now knows the NFL has thebest crack on earth.
It has the hottest drugs on thestreet.
They can charge what they wantwhen they want.
They can move to any corner andwe will pull up and find them
and give them the asking pricefor their crack.
I've been thinking about drugdealing a lot lately.
You love using crackspecifically I do, because it
ties several things that I liketogether.

(56:00):
It ties a hot product hip hopmusic, walter White, tony
Soprano it ties all these thingstogether that I have learned.
I didn't go to business school,guys.
I didn't.
Okay, I didn't.
I didn't like.
I worked at Google, I worked inHR guys.
They didn't teach me, theydidn't try to teach me.
Anything about business.

(56:20):
Like this is.
We're hacking this togetherthrough however we can and
there's a lot to be.
I'm working Boardwalk Empireright now.
There's a lot to be learnedabout economics through pop
culture, conversation aboutdrugs.
Drugs are hot.
I've never sold drugs, butdrugs are a hot product.
I'm so guys my friends knowthis like I'm so scared of those

(56:44):
types of nefarious dealings orI don't even call them nefarious
like I'm just so scared of thatkind of stuff, like I won't
even let my like I will behesitant to even let my friends
in my car with weed in placeswhere weed is legal.
I'm that guy, but I do thinkthat I do think the whatever.
I don't want to over talk it.
I've said it.
I do love talking about drugdeals.

(57:05):
I like talking about drugeconomics when we talk about
these things.
Anyway, you guys are gonna haveto pay some streaming servers
for the Super Bowl pretty soon.
Next thing wow, I am reallyyelling today, yeah damn.

Speaker 2 (57:18):
You have a lot of energy on the mic.

Speaker 1 (57:20):
Great.
That's the point.
That's kind of the point.
I don't know.
I hope I can be like this atthe live show.
That's the point.
The Pacers there was a trade, sothere are a few.
I'm not even gonna call theseblockbuster deals.
There's a few trades of likevery middling NBA stars who

(57:40):
actually have no realconsequence as to who's gonna
win the championship or not.
But there are gonna be sometrades between now and the trade
deadline, which I think is inmaybe three or four weeks.
It's in February.
But Pascal Siakam was tradedfrom the Toronto Raptors to the
Indiana Pacers for Bruce Brown,jordan Wara, three first round
picks for those who followclosely or not closely at all.

(58:02):
The important thing here is oneNBA teams do not know how to
value a star player right now,so you'll start seeing weird
trade packages that don'tactually make sense for these
guys like Pascal Siakam has.
What is it?
January?
Pascal Siakam has like fourmonths left on his contract,
which is to say Indiana may havejust traded three first round

(58:23):
picks for a guy that's not evengonna be on their roster at the
start of next season.
Pascal Siakam is.
I also don't like this trade forthe Pacers.
This is about to be reallyinside baseball-y, but I'm just
gonna do it real quick.
I don't like this trade for thePacers because the Pacers
already have, with TyreseHalliburton in the lineup, the
number one offense in the NBA.
They do not really need helpoffensively.

(58:44):
They're not the kind of teamthat gets stuck at the end of
games without a way to createshots.
They have the probably thepremier shot creator in the NBA,
and Tyrese Halliburton and theyhave a couple other guys who
can sort of create likeancillary shots.
Pascal Siakam is the kind ofguy who I think is better for a
bad team than he is for a goodteam, even though he was on a

(59:05):
championship team.
He catches the ball.
He sort of like jab steps,holds the ball, tries to get
into his back down game.
He's kind of a very awkwardgame.
It's almost like a skinnierJulius Randall, but I think even
less fluid than Julius Randall,would just saying a lot and I'm
worried that he is going to.

(59:25):
I think that the TorontoRaptors offense will take a
couple steps back.
Actually, with him in thelineup they're already like a
game out of the four seeds, sothey'll probably land somewhere
between four and seven seedafter this trade.
But I just don't think.
I don't.
I just think it's a reach.
Sometimes you just gotta wait.
Sometimes you just gotta waitfor somebody better to come on
the market.
Okay, next thing, I watched avideo today.

(59:49):
It was a video of LeBron in thelocker room after the game last
night.
They won, I think they're 500now Lakers and as it is, I
believe he's shirtless, scrum oflike reporters around him with
their phones out and theirmicrophones out and they're
asking him questions about thegame and he's answering them,

(01:00:12):
but while distracted by watchinghis son Brani play for USC.
On the screen you can't see theTV, but he's watching a TV
while having like a conversationback and forth with reporters.
They're asking a question aboutAnthony Davis getting better at
passing out of the post.
Lebron like kind of like smirksand he's like yeah, I taught him
that, like he learned that fromme.
He's also like giving he'sdoing the thing of being

(01:00:35):
basketball dad to his son whiledoing the interviews, which is
to say they'll ask him aquestion.
He's like oh, yeah, well, hereally rebounded the ball well
today, and they'll be like shootit, shoot it, like that kind of
thing, like yelling outdirections to the screen.
I've been around a lot ofbasketball parents, sports
parents.
Morgan, I'm certain you havebeen around a ton of sports
parents.
I sent that to my friends thismorning the video because I know

(01:01:01):
.
I know I feel influenced now tothink everything LeBron is
phony.
So I wanted to ask someone whois un-un-unjaded on this.
Did that seem authentic or phonyto you?

Speaker 2 (01:01:14):
No, okay, because when I watched it you were in my
head because I knew that thisis what you were going to bring
up.
We didn't talk about what youwere going to say.
You just sent me the clip andyou're like add it to the docket
, and I just knew.
And it is like I don't know,because I don't know, it did
feel a little, a little like forthe moment Not that he's not

(01:01:40):
really like that, but it didfeel very like, bro.

Speaker 1 (01:01:44):
It was performative.

Speaker 2 (01:01:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:01:46):
It was.
It felt a little like what Alittle bro, it was performative,
um.
And I actually put the phonedown after watching it and I was
like I was aware of my feelings.
I was like, am I, am I seeingsomething that's not there, or
was that fake?
And then I sent it to the groupchat and a show response SMH

(01:02:07):
and a show likes LeBron.
So I thought, but like all myfriends who like LeBron, they
also acknowledge he's a Bama.
So maybe, maybe we need asegment where, when LeBron does
things, we decide if they'reauthentic or fake or real?
authentic or fake, but uh, yeah,I don't know if you think it's
phony and you support that, youknow, sit with yourself.

(01:02:28):
Um, next thing, kyrie Irving,first player in NBA history,
just go 40 plus points withdifferent teammates, three
different teammates.
40 plus points with threedifferent teammates meaning 40
points along with, in the samegame, a teammate three times.
He's done that.
He did it with LeBron James in2016.

(01:02:49):
He did it with Luca Nanshich in2023 and he did it with Tim
Hardaway Jr just last week, in2024.
Maybe that was this week.
Um, that's pretty cool.
My friend, tj Theo Josephs, hehe coined I think he coined this
, unless he stole it fromsomebody, but he coined a term
that I really like, where hetalks about an NBA player

(01:03:11):
playing above the synergy, belowthe synergy or within the
synergy, and playing above thesynergy.
Kawhi Leonard is an example ofthis type of player.
It means like, regardless ofsort of what the team scheme is
or what else is happening on thefloor, kawhi can always just
like decide it's Kawhi time, andit's almost as if it's just

(01:03:31):
Kawhi and the basket and nobodyelse on the court exists,
including the defense, likethere's nothing they can really
do to like stop him from doingwhat he needs to do.
Um, there are players who arevery much within the synergy or
like, who are the synergy, likeTyrese Halliburton is the
synergy.
Like, whatever TyreseHalliburton decides is going to
happen on the court, that's thesynergy.

(01:03:52):
Like that's that's the wholeteam is like connected to and
playing off of TyreseHalliburton.
And then there's guys who arebelow the synergy and it's like
no matter how connected the teamis, their own individual, their
own individual actions can sortof tank the offense.
And an example of a star playerwho's like that to me is like

(01:04:14):
Julius Randall.
It's like everything can begoing great and then all of a
sudden Julius Randall is likeit's Julius Randall time and he
just gets the ball and he's justlike.
It's just like all right, nowwe just watch the Julius Randall
show, no matter how much JalenBrunson's cooking or whatever
it's an awful show.
It's a terrible show.
It's a terrible show.
Um, I really like guys.

(01:04:34):
I really love players who playabove the synergy.
I think of.
Actually, steph Curry kind ofis the synergy.
Kevin Durant can be the synergyor be above the synergy.
Allen Iverson, I think, wasabove the synergy.
Russell Westerberg can be aboveor below the synergy.
Um, he kind of is never in thesynergy, like.
But I think LeBron is thesynergy, like.

(01:04:56):
He he's probably the bestexample of someone who of all
time, of someone who like is thesynergy.
Um, kyrie Irving I think of aslike man.
Kyrie Irving, just like.
I mean this in an.
I mean this in the mostcomplimentary way.
Kyrie Irving plays basketballlike he is autistic.

(01:05:17):
He plays basketball like Rainman.
He plays basketball likeeverybody else is out here
playing a different sport andhe's like he just like sees the
whole thing with his head on atilt.
He like he's like the meme withthe numbers and the and the
graphs and the uh thingsswirling around his head and it
just looks like.
Sometimes it looks obvious thethings that he's doing.

(01:05:39):
It's like someone's in front ofhim and he just goes around
them or like somebody like youknow, he can't get it to his
left hand, so he just uses hisright hand to do a crossover to
his right hand or like he justhe can just kind of do anything.
And he's not tall and he's notlike big.
I'm sure he's strong, um, butthis is there are very rarely

(01:06:02):
like real and true firsts in NBAhistory.
This one is pretty cool, thathe's been able to get 40 on a
court.
If you're getting 40, it's sounlikely that somebody else is
out there getting 40.
It's so unlikely that someoneelse there is out there getting
30 because you have to use somany possessions to get your 40.
I was trying to think of likereal life examples of this.

(01:06:22):
Who's an artist who can lay downlike a timeless verse or a
timeless production on a songalong with another artist who
also has a timeless verse or atimeless production on that same
song and who can do that withthree different artists at an
elite level?
Or an actor who can act besideor act across from another actor

(01:06:46):
?
Who's an actor who can actagainst another actor or with
three different directors,having like a timeless
experience?
Somebody who's coming to mindis like Denzel Washington, spike
Lee, malcolm X, antoine Fuqua,training Day, I don't know.
I'm sure there's a third Denzeljoint that, like, has another

(01:07:09):
director at their peak in thatthing.
I'm going to guess thatsomebody like Tom Hanks has been
able to accomplish that.
It's really special to be ableto do your best work while also
elevating somebody else's bestwork Like that is.
That is a very unique andspecial talent.

(01:07:30):
That's something that I'm goingto be thinking about a lot.
Okay, man, so much yellingQuestions from Instagram.
Here we go.

Speaker 2 (01:07:38):
Do you want to put on your graphic tee?

Speaker 1 (01:07:39):
I'm doing a wardrobe change.
Do we want to break?

Speaker 2 (01:07:41):
Do you want to break?
Oh no, It'll take two seconds.
Sell an ass.
Sell an ass.

Speaker 1 (01:07:47):
I mean, I'm not getting shirtless guys.
I am trying to eat more healthy, though, guys.
No more From now, until thelive show, because I don't want
to have chipmunk cheeks at thelive show.

Speaker 2 (01:07:56):
I don't think I've ever seen you wear a graphic tee
shirt.
This is not mine.
Oh, what do you have againstgraphic tees?
Nothing.

Speaker 1 (01:08:05):
I just I don't do a lot of shopping, morgan, okay,
remember when you said you couldnever see me just going in the
store and being like hmm, I waslike what does that even mean,
Morgan?
But I think I understand whatit means, okay.
Also, how ridiculous.
That is the rock.

Speaker 2 (01:08:22):
I know it's kind of funny.
It's a WWE the rock shirt too.

Speaker 1 (01:08:28):
Nice.
It's pretty cool, though.
Somebody told me like years ago, I was just like so frustrated
with my agency and I was justlike when are they going to like
care about my thing?
And blah, blah, blah, like whenare they going to care about my
stuff as much as me?
And they were like when you'rethe rock?
Oh, so never.
Okay, cool.

Speaker 2 (01:08:48):
What did you ask me?
I said do you want me to readit?

Speaker 1 (01:08:50):
Okay, Can you do it in their voice?
Can you make a voice for thesepeople?

Speaker 2 (01:08:54):
Sure, okay, thank you .
So this is questions from yourInstagram.
This first one is from at let'sgo with Julio, and the question
is talk us through or talk usthrough the creativity Morgan,
what happened?
Talk us through the creativityexperience and writing process

(01:09:15):
of yearbook.
Break it down.

Speaker 1 (01:09:18):
All caps, all caps, let's go with Julio.
I know to be a former Googleralso.
He DMed me something abouthaving worked at Google.
Shout out to let's go withJulio.
The creativity, experience andwriting process of yearbook
Alright, break it down.
He says so.
How did it start 2021?

(01:09:41):
I, okay, let's.
Let's go way back, like 2015,.
I sat in my Crown Heightsapartment with my friend Shaka
and recorded my voice onGarageBand, just talking shit,
trying to learn how to do apodcast, never picked it up or
touched it again until 2021,where my book was about to come

(01:10:05):
out and I had learned to the.
I got I kind of got my bookdeal, I think.
First because there was pressabout me and Spike taking this
show out, and so there was abuilding.
There was a building snowballof like make sure that each time
I was telling myself, make sureevery time you go in front of a
mic or in front of cameras orto a pitch meeting, that you

(01:10:26):
have already lined up yourcreative vision for some other
things that you want to get done.
And this show yearbook thatwent in question here.
I had a different name for itthen, which I can't even
remember, but I had the conceptin tow when I was doing press
for Black Magic in 2021.

(01:10:48):
So when I went on Dax Shepard'sArmchair Expert Network, I
already had this is the firststep I had like a one-sheeter
for the show.
It was like a description of,you know, these events that took
place my junior year of highschool.
This, this, this, this is whatit meant to me, this is how it
happened, et cetera, et cetera.
And so when Dax and I madecontact after that, after that

(01:11:11):
interview, I pitched it to himand Monica and with a few other
ideas, and that was the one thatthey were most into.
And another one of those ideas,I believe, was Quitters, which
I made with Julie Bowen.
Another one of those ideas, Ithink maybe was the bare bones
of direct deposit, but I can'tremember.
So, once we got in bed together,me and Armchair Expert, it took

(01:11:33):
months we, you know, finallycame to an agreement on a deal
and the next step was for me in2021, later in 2021, november to
go travel to Maryland where Ilived for a month in an Airbnb
in, like the White Oak areaactually right next to White Oak
High School, middle school gotan Airbnb with a giant yard.

(01:11:56):
That was the most important,like the biggest yard, so that
Penny could run around and notbe freaking out about being in a
new environment.
And I spent a month.
I probably did 20, 25interviews with mom, dad, sister
, best friends from high schoolteammates, my basketball coaches
, my principal, alicia's parents, like just I mean I had.

(01:12:21):
I had another Airbnb in TacomaPark which was just a one
bedroom apartment where peoplecame and sat in the room with me
for a couple hours with maskson because of COVID and I just
had.
I came in, as I do to mostconversations, with a starting
point like where I want theconversation to go, and then

(01:12:41):
just followed the energy of theconversation and the curiosities
around what they saw, what theyremembered, what they felt,
what I saw.
You know, back and forth, partof the part of the creative
process of this show was andit's a skill that I'm learning
to develop which is sharingsomething, the way that I saw it
with someone else to bounce offtheir memory back against mine.

(01:13:04):
I just interviewed, as Imentioned, my high school prom
date, you know, for anotherproject two days ago, three days
ago and so much of what Ilearned in that conversation was
wow, we saw this experiencethat we both had together, like
over years, we saw it sodifferently because we were each

(01:13:26):
the heroes in our own storiesand that's what was.
That was really the creativebreath of yearbook.
I mean, even to this moment,I'm seeing all the ways that
that story resonated with thepeople who were there for it and
, at the same time, in inincluding in some pretty, like

(01:13:46):
you know, fraught ways, peoplewho have memories that are
different from mine, or memoriesthat are different from the
other people who were there, whoare like that's not how it
happened and like I think,sometimes, when, when you are
telling a my, my high schoolprom date, my ex-girlfriend said
this in our conversation theother day.

(01:14:07):
She said when I read your bookand I wasn't in it, I started to
feel like you were trying towrite me out of your story, like
out of your life, and I amnoticing that as a response.
I'm noticing that, as thisplatform builds, people care
more about how I'm tellingstories, which means they care

(01:14:27):
more that the stories reflectwhat they think the story is,
what they remember the story tobe.
I've gone away from thecreative process.
Let me come back.

Speaker 2 (01:14:35):
Yeah, do you want to try doing three actionable
things that you did?

Speaker 1 (01:14:39):
Yes, is this for real ?

Speaker 2 (01:14:42):
Huh, no, I mean, it's just like it's easy to listen
to, like yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:14:46):
The first step was I did all the interviews, like all
these conversations 25, 30 ofthem which included trying to
chase down.

Speaker 2 (01:14:54):
I was going to say what about question prep?
How prepped were you?

Speaker 1 (01:14:58):
I came in with the process I would use now and I
think this is mainly what I didwas like coming with like five
strong questions that will leadyou down the right path, where
you can just keep uncovering newthings.
Like anytime somebody sayssomething in a conversation that

(01:15:21):
I think lends a question mark.
I just want to make sure I askthe question because that's
going to you don't know whereyou're going.
Like you, the whole point isyou're trying to get it, you're
trying to shake the whole bagout before you, like um, before
you line the pieces up to tellthe story.
Yeah, so one, I guess.
Step one was question prep andtravel.

(01:15:41):
That two was to actually havethe interviews and then step
three was and it's a big step, Imean, um, a two years long
process, pretty much of likecoming to Josh's studio and
recording voiceovers to lay downover and between the interviews

(01:16:03):
to tell the actual story.
I mean, there was a lot ofwriting involved.
There was a lot of working withAmanda, the producer, who, like
helped me really like shapethese into episodes, and going
back and forth with Dax andMonica about, you know, their
high level notes on what storyexactly are we telling?
Whose stories deserve to havethe big set pieces in this show,

(01:16:24):
like what themes do we wannapull more at?
What themes do we wanna leavealone?
I mean, there was a big andcollaborative process among, I
would say, six or seven peopleof like really turning it into
what feels like an audiodocu-series, you know, like
really making sure that it tellsa story and that all these
little layers that need to beuncovered get their proper due.

(01:16:48):
And there's many more steps inthat which I could get into, but
we don't have time for themright now, so that you wanna do
a second question real quick.
Sure, four minutes.

Speaker 2 (01:16:57):
Can you make it in television?
This comes from Dasha W N J orDashaan J.
Can you make it as a televisionwriter without living in LA?

Speaker 1 (01:17:10):
Yeah, I thought this was a funny question because I
have never lived in LA.
I don't.
I'm like are you, where do yousee me in this?
Like, do you think I have madeit or haven't made it?
Or if the question is like, canyou get a job as a TV writer
without living in LA, the answeris 100% yes, you can.
Your greatest assets right now,if you want to be a TV writer,

(01:17:33):
are one do you have a writtenpilot that you can stand behind?
That is your sample that says,like I can write and I have a
point of view and I can write.
This part's really important tome.
I can write by myself.
I don't need a co-writer.
Like this is I can sit down infront of a computer and craft

(01:17:55):
the opening episode of a TVseries.
That's important.
So one is just like a straightup.
You need proof of your ability.
But the second you need peopleto know you exist.
And when I started this wholething, boy did I chase agents
and managers and PR people andall these people who I thought

(01:18:15):
could get other people to know Iexist.
And now, as I am deeper intothis, I realize those people all
serve an important job, butthat job is much more valuable
once you already have people whowant to hire you.
Like they do not make they donot, like they do not find

(01:18:36):
people who want to hire you theytake the people who already
wanna hire or who already areinterested in you and help turn
it into deals.
That's really what their job is.
So what you gotta do is makesure people know I'm here and I
have ability, and the way thatyou can do that is by making a
short film and distributing iton YouTube or on Instagram, like

(01:19:01):
building your storytellingpresence on your socials.
However you can.
Maybe you maybe every day yousit in front of your camera and
you make a TikTok where you justtell a one minute story about
the character that's in yourpilot or your own life or
another story that you wannatell, and you build a snowball

(01:19:22):
of people knowing that you havethis ability and then, all of a
sudden, like you start shootingoff DMs, they start coming your
way, you start having theseconversations and then one of
these people who's been keepingan eye on you and I'm one of
these people who is keeping aneye on the people that reach out
to me Like all of a sudden theyhave an opportunity.
My opportunity came because atthe time, my friend Elaine got

(01:19:44):
hired to go right on Gronish byKenya Bears, who was a friend of
hers, and she had not, at thatpoint, written a TV pilot and so
she needed me to come with her,to go sit in the room.
And I shouldn't even say sheneeded me to.
She asked me if I wanted toalso go and sit in the room, in
the writer's room, with her andcollaborate on this TV pilot,

(01:20:04):
and that was my first credit wasbecause somebody else got a
shot, who knew I could do thejob, and brought me along with
them.
So you wanna make your like.
You need people to know you cando something Like.
You don't have to live in LA forthat.
In fact, I would say LA is theplace where there are tens of

(01:20:24):
thousands of people trying to benoticed, just like you are,
probably hundreds of thousandsof people trying to be noticed,
just like you are.
I think it's more valuable tobe a big fish in a small pond
like New York City.
Okay, that's it.
That's it All right.
So much yelling, I'm gonna godrink tea.
This has been Nothing butAnarchy.
And, yeah, we did the show.

Speaker 2 (01:20:47):
Buy tickets to the live show.
Go buy tickets to the live show.

Speaker 1 (01:20:50):
If you try to text me the day before the live show.
First of all, the tickets areso easy to find.
I'm already like.
Why y'all asking me where thesetickets are?
Like, the tickets are there inmy bio on my Instagram.
Open Instagram, go to myprofile, go to my bio.
It'll be at the very top of thestack will be the tickets.

(01:21:11):
Or you can just go toshanklinhaulcom.
I'm yelling, but I mean thisnicely.
If you text me on the day ofand we haven't texted in the
last few, whatever text is gonnaturn green.
So go buy your tickets.
All right, get out of here.