February 21, 2024 • 55 mins
On this episode, Chad talks through his understanding of "queerbaiting" and relationship to it based on some Instagram questions. Then, he quickly delves into why the NBA All Star games are not worth watching.
Tune in Tuesdays and Thursdays at 12PM ET to watch the show live on Youtube. Follow @chadsand on Instagram and subscribe to the Nothing But Anarchy Youtube channel for full interviews and more anarchy!
Executive Produced by: Chad Sanders
Produced by: Morgan Williams
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Alright, welcome to Nothing but Anarchy.
This is episode number 88,number of Michael Irvin.
Number of CD-Lam, the number ofDes Bryant Apparently, they
(00:22):
have a group text with all the88s from the Cowboys who like
check in on each other and giveeach other support, etc.
I think it's really cool.
So I noticed something, whichis when we got okay, this is
what happened.
This is what happened.
This is what happened.
This is what happened.
This is what happened.
This is what happened.
This is what happened.
This is what happened.
(00:44):
We did the live show, stood on acouch, talked to 50 to 60
people who I mean 50 people, notincluding the staff of the
restaurant.
So 50 people who I know oh,let's say, 30 people who I know
and trust and 20 strangers.
They're abouts, they're peoplewho I know that at least 10 of
them, if they felt like I wasgoing too far, they would reel
(01:09):
me in, including Wargatron, whowas there, and they didn't.
And, to the contrary, in fact,most of them, after the show,
expressed some level of positivefeedback for the tone of the
show.
They liked what the show speaksto and they liked that I didn't
(01:29):
shy away from what needs to besaid.
About what needs to be said, Iam.
This is something I'm having tocome to grips with, okay,
because it is not the identitythat I thought I wanted to
inhabit for most of my life.
I am having to come to gripswith the fact that I am a nice
person and boys, I believe, aresocialized to believe that
(01:56):
niceness, kindness, will holdyou back in capitalism, in
dating, in socialization.
You're not socialized as a boy.
I think in this country, inthis world, you are not
socialized to admire kindness.
(02:17):
We look up to some people, lookup to Kobe Bryant, because
y'all niggas are weird and youforgot about that thing, but
most of us, Morgan, are younervous?
Did that make you nervous?
No, okay, you took a breath.
That's weird that y'all justforgot about that thing.
Y'all don't think that's weird,josh, you think that's weird?
Speaker 2 (02:36):
I never forgot that thing.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Why do niggas just y'all niggas are weird?
Because y'all, just y'all.
I just don't understand.
Okay, that's not even what Icame here to get into.
Stop, I'm not going down thatroad.
But y'all niggas are you Kobefans are fucking weird as shit.
I wouldn't trust y'all niggasfurther than I could throw you.
You guys are weird as hell.
But let's get back to the point.
We are socialized to look up topeople like, let's say, michael
(03:01):
Jordan.
Let's say, I don't knowSuperman.
Superman's a bad example.
He's pretty nice.
You're socialized to look up tothe big, squash-buckling,
powerful, cutthroat, focused,unempathetic man.
That's what you're socializedto look up to.
(03:22):
Maybe these babies that arecoming up now.
In fact I'm even watching itwith my nephews, but your
parents are probably teachingyou all something different.
But I'm 35, growing up.
Kindness was not high on thechart in terms of how they were
trying to socialize us boys.
At basketball practice my coachdidn't say make sure you don't
(03:43):
hurt anybody out there.
He said in so many words.
He said scrape a nigga's eyesout if that's what you have to
do to get a loose ball.
And I took that on and tookthat with me through college and
it hasn't worn right on my skinfor most of my life because
(04:06):
underneath it, whatever I wastrying to pretend to be, I am a
nice person.
My favorite thing and peopleare asking me very existential
questions on Instagram right nowbecause I'm telling them to I'm
like, hey, ask me a questionyou think I want to answer
honestly, and something thatcomes up is like what is your
heart's greatest desire?
My favorite thing to do is sitaround with people that I like
(04:32):
and just catch a vibe, talk liketalk about what we see
happening around us.
We went to me, tim and Delisa.
We drove to Gotham City Burgeron Sunday in the Lower East Side
.
I got a car.
My parents gave me my old carback from college.
I had to sell my car, spent 10days, or however long, walking
(04:57):
to the gym 45 minutes andwalking home, taking Ubers to
the studio, and I just went homeover the weekend to Maryland.
My mom got a new car, so I gotmy old car back from college.
I'm driving a 2000,.
This is how glamorous my lifeis, guys.
I'm driving a 2008 NissanAltima around New York City
right now.
(05:17):
Okay, because I want you guysto know just how sexy it is to
be me.
Pick up Tim and Delisa fromBushwick drive to Lower East
Side.
We're about to pull up to ourparking spot and I'm like it's
like I can pretend for longenough with people that I'm down
(05:38):
to to, like not with my friends, friends but like I can pretend
enough to be kind, to begenerous, to like that I'm down
to talk about some dumb shit,but I'm like with my real
friends.
I'm like, okay, delisa, give mesome gossip.
Like, come on, come on, tell mesomething, give me something
real that we can like dig intohere.
Like, what's going on with yourfriends?
Who's not fucking with who?
(05:58):
Who's being shady?
I do it to Morgan too.
Like, morgan, come on, like,because what, what are we doing?
Like, what are we doing?
What are we talking about?
Like, come on, like let's talkabout what we are.
Let's talk about what we reallyare.
Let's not talk, let's notpretend.
Like let's talk about who andwhat we really are.
So I forgot.
(06:21):
What the fuck am I even talkingabout?
What does that have to do withbeing nice?
Oh well, okay, so I'm realizingthat what I actually care about
is what I actually amunderneath that that window
dressing is someone who's nice,who likes to hang out, who likes
to kick it with his friends,who, like that's what I am Like.
(06:42):
I tried to fit, I tried to wearalso that dumbass like Mark
Zuckerberg, silicon Valley boy.
Wear the same clothes every day.
Like turn yourself into a sharpobject as a person so you can
just knife your way, you know,through capitalism to the top,
and that also doesn't feel verygood.
(07:03):
That sucks ass.
That's so bad at parties.
I bet that's so bad in thebedroom for those guys.
They're probably terrible atsex.
Okay, right, no, okay, whateverI think.
So I don't fuck with thoseniggas, all right.
Where am I going with this?
I don't even remember.
Truly, I don't even know.
I don't even know, like I justI got back in front of the
(07:28):
microphone and I meant to startsomewhere and I completely lost
my way.
But these are all things thatare relevant to me anyway, so
I'm glad I'm getting them off.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
All I know is that you said something about being a
kind guy and then talked aboutthis.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
And then say how bad.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
those guys are All right, fuck it.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Here's what I do have to say, okay.
And then I where I'm going.
Actually I meant to do thislast time.
Oh, I know I did this, okay, sowe did a live show.
We did a live show.
My people were like it's great,keep going, like do the thing.
That's why I said all that shitabout being underneath it all,
and that don't mean like I'm not, I'm not like a quote, unquote
(08:09):
nice guy, hate those guys.
I hate those guys.
Oh my God, and I'm not one ofthem.
Okay, that much I want toassure you of.
I am not one of those.
Woe is me in the face as boys.
Okay, hate those niggas.
You guys know what I'm talkingabout.
You guys know guys who wearniceness as their identity.
Like and they're so pathetic.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
Oh, I thought you meant the ones that do it in
like a toxic way.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Um, I mean, to me it is toxic.
I don't so I'm not necessarilymeaning like I know there are
guys who are like they use beingthe nice guy to get action.
I don't really mean that, butthat's kind of.
But it's in the realm, it'slike.
It's like the like super, youknow gentle guy who's like so
(08:54):
frail, such a weeping willow ofa human being that you can't
actually say something real tothem because they might just
like break in front of you, theymight just completely like fall
apart.
Do you know what I'm talkingabout?
Yeah, okay, thank you.
Why are you laughing?
Speaker 3 (09:10):
Because I just have a very like you know exactly what
I'm talking about.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Oh my God, those people are so annoying.
Like you can't.
You can't do anything aroundthere, you can't live like.
You can't have a realconversation with them, you
can't tell them anything, youcan't.
They can't keep a secret.
God, those I hate, those niggas.
All right, All right, All right, Most of them are white guys,
by the way.
Okay, so for real, we don't, wedon't really get to do that.
(09:34):
It's like, that's not, that'snot available as an identity to
us, as far as I can tell, with afew exceptions.
I don't even know who they are.
All right, why am I saying that?
Because the live show changedme a little bit, I feel, to
(09:57):
Morgan's dismay.
I feel empowered now to bebolder about what it is that I
have to say and more forthcoming.
Okay.
So it is no coincidence that weleft that show, came right back
and I walked into the studioknowing exactly what I needed to
say to stir up a buzz on theinternet, which is asking white
(10:22):
people if they like makes peoplebetter.
I was like oh, I got one.
I know this.
And when I say I got one, okay,I am a, I am a
conversationalist.
I care about, I like toactually try to find something
that societally, we have notfully adjudicated, we have not
(10:43):
fully, we haven't really.
It's like we're close, We'vecircled it but it's a little
sensitive, so we haven'tactually nailed it, we haven't
actually hit the mark and thereare certain conversations that
are so, so hot buttony that wenever hit the mark because it
(11:03):
gets.
It's just the heat gets turnedup so high in there that we kind
of just like stop, we stopbefore we get to the thing.
So I said the thing we do, we dothe.
You know, we put the reel outand I know, I know, I know a
reel is going crazy becauseeither one Morgan tells me or
two my people in my real lifebring it up to me.
(11:25):
Most of the time my closefriends.
We don't really talk about mywork that much unless something
has gone, unless something hasreached outside the bubble right
, Unless it's coming back tothem from other angles, like
someone else who we don't talkto all the time sent them this
thing, and that happened withthis one.
(11:48):
And so now today I have walkedinto this studio with something
that I believe is another thingthat I know genuinely.
I don't have the answer onMorgan.
Are you scared?
You said you were.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
I am because you said I'm coming in at 100 miles an
hour.
Like that's a scary thing tohear Chad say.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Well, okay, because I thought about this sometimes.
Here's a problem, and I saidthis also at the live show like
this thing is so important,these microphones are so special
.
I'm watching them make a wayfor my life, like they are
making a way for me.
I'm like that's so cool Talking.
(12:35):
I talked to Dax the other nightName drop.
I talked to Dax the other night.
Oh, my God, so many armchairexperts people on my Instagram.
I'm like you guys are reallyobsessed with armchair expert.
They're like asking me thesereally detailed questions about
armchair expert.
I'm like I've listened to likethree episodes of armchair
expert and I'm on two of them.
But talk to Dax the other night.
(12:55):
I'm calling people.
I'm calling people.
I'm like, hey, I know where I'mgoing now.
I need money to fuel this thing.
I keep doing it with my ownmoney, but it's gonna take
longer to get there and I wasn'tasking Dax for money.
But I'm like, do you knowsomebody who will get?
Introduce me to a rich gambler.
That's what I'm looking for.
(13:15):
I'm looking for a rich personwho will put their money on
something that they don'ttotally understand how the
money's gonna come back.
That's the truth.
Like if you introduce me to aventure capitalist and they
wanna put me in front of aspreadsheet like it's not gonna
work like that.
I need a rich gambler, somebodywho will give me $50,000 and
(13:37):
they will go use $100,000 at theBlackjack table that night.
Like that's what I'm lookingfor.
Dax definitely knows somebodylike that.
That has nothing to do with whathe said to me, though.
We start just shooting thisshit for a second and he says I
thought I was gonna be done withthis thing now-ish.
(14:00):
And now that I've done thismuch, I love this thing.
I love the pro-.
I've been reading and listeningto a lot about process.
I just love talking to people.
That's what he says.
I just love talking to peopleand I feel that I didn't expect
us, societally, to be at thisplace at the height of my
(14:22):
probably the beginning of theheight of, like my sort of
professional earning power years, which I guess are like 35 to
50 or something like that.
I didn't expect us to be at aplace where talking was gonna be
such a thing Not rapping, notsinging, not doing a talk show,
(14:42):
but like literally this thing.
And now that we're here, I'malso watching something and this
could be me flying toward abuzzsaw, and I can't.
I don't care Like I can't.
I can't stop that.
Morgan, did you take a deepbreath?
Are you nervous?
No, are you?
nervous in general about thiswhole thing?
Are you nervous in generalabout this whole direction?
Speaker 3 (15:02):
I just, I don't know what you're gonna say.
I hate, I mean, I usually don'tknow what you're gonna say.
But, like on specific topics,I'm just like is Chad gonna get
canceled?
Speaker 2 (15:11):
today Like.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
I don't think I am, but you never know, any day
could be your day.
But I'm realizing.
That's why I was bringing upthese mics.
This is powerful.
And sometimes I get up herebecause I realize I'm not on the
cutting edge of what theconversation is in terms of what
(15:39):
you are allowed to say aboutcertain things.
I get up here and I talk aboutsome shit and I'm and I'd be
doing it halfway cause I'mscared, cause I don't know what
the fuck I'm saying.
No, I know what I'm saying andI know what I feel, but I don't
know what is allowed to be said.
Does that make sense?
Yes, maybe some of that's okay.
Last thing, the thing is aboutqueer baiting.
(16:01):
For the record, that's what weare going to explore.
No, no more things.
We're going to get to thebottom, maybe, of what is queer
baiting.
We're going to do so with noqueer people in the room.
Excellent.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
Great job by us.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Great job by us.
We're going to talk about queerbaiting and we're going to talk
about whether or not we aregoing to adjudicate whether or
not I am guilty of queer baiting.
Okay, all right, let's talkabout queer baiting.
Why are we talking about this?
All right, let's start here.
There's a couple, there's a fewquestions that are here.
Number one what is queerbaiting and why is it bad?
(16:46):
And like, let me also justheadline this one by itself why
is queer baiting bad?
Why is it frowned upon?
Why do so many queer guys thinkI'm gay?
Or do they even think I'm gay?
(17:10):
Or they just shoot in theirshot to see what happens?
And how should I feel aboutthat?
Those are the questions.
Okay, I'm realizing Morgan'sgoing to be nervous for this
whole segment, so I can't lookto her for affirmation as I
shoot this off.
(17:31):
No, you're feelings are valid.
If you're nervous, you shouldbe, because I've done very
little research on this topic.
I'm just ready to get my shitoff, okay, the first question is
what is queer baiting?
You have a first, morgan.
This is what happened.
This is what happened.
This is what happened.
I'm gonna start at thebeginning.
(17:54):
Probably since college, I havefelt the.
I have felt the.
What's the word the?
It's not admiration, it's notaffection.
Exactly, gays, gay dudes, haveliked me for a long time.
(18:17):
That's how it's been, that'swhat it is.
I feel so much more comfortablesaying that up here than saying
women have liked me.
Okay, cause you're not allowedto say that.
You're allowed, but you areallowed to say gay dudes have
liked me for a long sincecollege.
Okay, remember Facebook honestybox, do you all?
Speaker 3 (18:33):
no, you definitely don't no, I remember like two
like two be honest statuses.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
No, that's not what it is.
It was a box.
I don't remember this either OnFacebook you could opt into
this box where people could justwrite you an anonymous message
on Facebook, right Almost likethe questions thing I do on
Instagram, but where youcouldn't see who asked it.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
A word yeah, they need to bring that back.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
It was fire.
It was really cool.
You had what?
Ask FM, yeah, okay, well, sohonesty box.
The reason why you used it isbecause you wanted to either
shoot your shot at somebodyanonymously which makes no sense
or receive them shooting theirshot at you.
Put my honesty box up.
Oh, and Facebook.
The only thing it would tellyou via the color of the message
(19:22):
pink or blue is whether or notit came from a guy or a gal.
That was it.
So put my face.
I'm a freshman in college.
I live in Graves Hall with myroommate.
This is the part of the storywith my roommate who eventually
became my fraternity brother,who eventually came out as queer
after we were out of college.
(19:43):
That's just something to justkeep that in the box.
Like, just know it.
I put my honesty box up,expecting a flood of women from
Spellman and Clark who are tooshy to approach me in real life
(20:04):
to tell me that they have acrush on me, and instead what I
got was a nonstop flood of bluemessages saying anything from
basic shit like you're cute, areyou straight, or are you
straight or not?
Aren't you in that class?
(20:26):
Yada, yada, yada, yada, rangingall the way into the loon and
explicit, as I'm sure you guyscan imagine.
All right that because andhere's another dimension of this
that I want to keep here Likedudes are dudes, yeah, like gay,
straight, bi, whatever acrossthe spectrum.
(20:49):
Like dudes are dudes and dudesare fucking nasty and lewd and
forward.
Okay, that's what it is.
Recently, I have received quitea deluge of messages from guys
(21:09):
ranging in between you know,you're like, you're good looking
.
Some guys say you're beautiful,which I know is like the basic
ass shit.
Guys say to women as well thatthey think sounds interesting or
better than just being likeyou're fine.
You know what I mean.
All the way over to nothinglike now I can see who they are,
(21:31):
so they don't jump out as crazyas like some of the shit that
they used to say in college orsome of the ice to live in the
West Village.
Some of the comments I wouldget in passing as I walk by in
the West Village Um, but prettyforward, you know what I mean.
A series of guys asking what'sup with me.
Um, I have been doing a lot ofQ and A's on my Instagram.
(21:52):
Ask me a question you think Iwon't answer.
Honestly, I get quite a fewguys asking do you?
As, for example, when I got twodays ago, um, are you attracted
to people of my gender, whichis another fancy way of saying
like, do you like megas, do youlike men?
Let's use that one.
(22:13):
I'm trying to a little spacefrom the inward for me, all
right, and I have been wantingto explore exactly, and I have
been having this conversationwith friends, my sister
morgatron to an extent, like I'mtrying to understand what it is
, what it is that I am signalingthat would make people think
(22:42):
I'm gay or queer.
And I'm also wondering if,because queer guys are just guys
, if they're doing the samething that straight guys do,
which is where they know a womanhas said I only like women, but
they just can't hear thatbecause they're guys and they
(23:05):
don't listen.
They don't actually payattention, like they don't care.
All that they're thinking isbut I like you.
So when are you going to comearound to liking guys?
Never is what those ladies aregenerally trying to make clear,
but guys ain't are not trying tohear that.
How do you feel, morgan?
What's your nervousness levelat zero to 10?
Speaker 3 (23:28):
I'm not like a four or five.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
All right, great.
So I put it.
I'm doing the Q&A, I send more.
I forgot what I sent Morgan.
I sent Morgan something andprobably was like what's up with
this?
Why do these guys think of gayor something like that?
And again, I'm not playingoblivious, like, oh, this is
(23:52):
what it was.
This is what it was In responseto one of those questions.
The exercise was ask me thisshould go in the row right here.
The exercise that I presentedwas ask me a question that you
think I will not answer honestly.
If I won't answer it, you get apoint.
Somebody asked me do you like mygender?
A guy asked me that.
(24:12):
It's basically asking me areyou queer?
And I'm driving home from, I'mdriving back to New York from
Maryland in my 2008 NissanAltima and I, what I feel come
over me, this is what's going toget us into queerbaiting.
What I feel come into me, comeover, come over me, keep that,
that was good Is I am not.
(24:38):
I felt myself realizing, oh,like I don't know if I'm ready
to be honest about my sexualityhere, like, not like I've like
hidden it in some way, but likeI have been quite happy for if a
bunch of queer guys like me andit helps them to believe that I
(25:03):
might like them.
I have been happy to accept thatbecause at the moment, at the
discurrent point in time, whatChad is focused on is grabbing a
large audience, like that'swhat matters to me right now.
Is it nefarious, is it not?
I don't think so.
What I'm trying to do is liketired of fucking with all these
(25:23):
other people's audiences andstudios and celebrities and
whatever.
Like my audience, mine, and I'mhappy to do that by presenting
myself as like a part of theoffering.
There's the creativity, there'sthe, there's writing, there's
podcasts, there's images.
It's a whole world that we'rebuilding here and if a part of
(25:47):
it is here is also Chad as theperson, as the avatar who you
can slot in as like maybe thatperson would be attracted to me.
I've been happy to go with that, not just for dudes.
For a lot of people who I'm notattracted to.
This is good.
This is coming out good Cause Ireally mean it.
(26:08):
It's clear and I'm not scaredof being canceled.
But take that out, okay.
Thank you, I realized it washedover me.
I don't know if I'm ready totell whatever sized audience of,
whatever part of my audience isqueer guys.
(26:30):
I don't know if I'm ready totell them I'm not into guys.
I felt that I felt it becausehere's the thing getting into
the weeds.
But that's the point.
This is the show.
When I answer these questions,when I do even this job, I'm
trying to do, I'm trying to like, I'm trying to like bring it
(26:51):
from inside and what's real.
And so sometimes, when, when Idon't know, oh, what's going to
be interesting, what's going tobe generous to the audience here
, a good way for me to find itis like well, what do I actually
feel right now?
And that's what I felt.
I felt myself about to exposemyself.
And I was like Chad, are youready to expose yourself so long
(27:15):
?
Tag, I did it because I knew itwas gonna be good content.
That's really why I did it.
And I say and I tell, I'm likeExplaining it to the, to the
camera.
I'm like, hey, this is why Ihaven't said outright that I'm
straight, but I'm straight, Ididn't want to like alienate any
particular part of my audience.
Blah, blah, blah, blah,whatever.
(27:35):
Put it out there.
And then I start getting funnyresponses.
One of them comes from myfriend, bethany, who I went to
college with who says IGenuinely don't think I've ever
seen someone come out andstraight and I was like, yeah, I
thought of.
And then I respond.
(27:56):
I was like, hey, can I postthis?
Because it's funny as shit.
And then I posted.
People thought it's funny, butthere's a point.
Here's the point.
Let's go back to the point.
Let's stop too many dimensionsof the internet.
Let's just talk about the point.
The point is I Want to know isthere something sleazy?
Is there something duplicitous?
Is there something Dishonorableabout me Knowing that?
(28:19):
That is one of the audience.
There's another audience that Ihave an internet relationship
with, which is like guys, ready,scary, but we're gonna put it
on here.
It's like 40 to 55 year oldsuburban white women.
Okay, we're gonna put it onhere Because it's true I don't
(28:41):
care, it's true I don't, and andand.
For both of those audiences, Iit's like if someone asked me to
sit down and write out what areyou doing?
That's appealing to thoseaudiences.
Maybe this is why it's a littlesomething.
I could probably do it if theywere like hey, write the 10
(29:02):
things about you that you thinkMake soccer moms like you white
ones.
If they were like hey, writeout the 10 things that you think
make Queer dudes like you.
I could probably do it, and Iguess this is a question about
marketing, it's a question aboutidentity, it's a question about
(29:22):
the internet.
If I Continue to step intothose things, I'll tell you guys
right now.
If the reason why I Queer guyslike me is because, as I put it
to someone in my DMs, like Idon't know, I think it's because
I talk about feelings and I'mpretty Morgan Morgan nods.
(29:43):
Thank you that.
I mean.
If that's the reason, it cuz Ihave nice jewelry, it's cuz I
get my hair done, it's because Ibrush my teeth at morning and
at night, it's because, like ILook, I mean I'll keep it a buck
with you guys.
My body's not where I want itto be, but like I'm 35 guys like
you guys know what 35 year oldslook like.
(30:04):
You guys know.
You guys know 35 year olds looklike Josh, you look great too,
but y'all know, you know whatmost of our age look like.
Yeah, most of our age are it'sgetting close, yeah, you
understand.
So here's the point.
Here's the point.
Here's what.
If they like me for things thatI also like about myself, I'm
(30:25):
not gonna like bend in theopposite direction Just to avoid
baiting, or Because I know justas well as there's some, gonna
be some people when they hearthis that are gonna nod along
and be like, yeah, you do kindof be like that.
Yeah, you are kind of like that, that's cool, whatever.
I think my sister even likes it.
(30:45):
My sister's like that's coolthat you're not Whatever,
whatever.
That's not the point.
It's gonna be some other dudeswho are like, literally, you're
gonna be like no, nigga, that'sgay, dware jewelry and all that
shit.
Like no, that's gay.
Like literally, that's whatthey're gonna say to themselves,
(31:07):
to each other, and a couple ofthem in a moment, here there,
somewhere in private, they'regonna say that to me Okay,
morgan, john, what's queerbaiting?
What's the definition?
Speaker 3 (31:21):
Do you want my definition?
Speaker 1 (31:22):
I want yours first cuz you were the one who was
like when I sent it to.
Speaker 3 (31:28):
He sent me the.
He was like oh, like, I want toadd this to the docket.
And I was like, okay, yeah, bythe way, like when I saw this,
like it really brings up queerbaiting like what you were like
talking about, like in yourresponse to you, and he was like
what's that?
He's learned how.
You're like thatself-explanatory, but like what
is it?
I mean like.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
I it was pretty self-explanatory, but I was like
what is it?
And you explained what is it,what?
Speaker 3 (31:56):
was it to you for me.
I consider it to be someonethat's like Purposefully
presenting themselves in a waythat could be like Like that
could be perceived as beingqueer when they're not and so,
(32:20):
and then, like I asked one of myother friends and he was like
like performative queerness,basically when that's not
actually like the group that youidentify with, right.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
Yeah, okay, and so here's a distinction that I made
intellectually, once you toldme what it was.
Here's what I know isproblematic and this should
probably go into I Think it isin the definition that I saw,
either that you sent me or Ifound a Wikipedia.
I saw One dimension of queerbaiting is performing queerness
(32:56):
for the intention of Attractingan audience, selling something
whatever, whatever, whatever,like um, and this is what's so
crazy for me, like in as much aswe separate sexuality, in as
much as we make sexualitydistinctions which, for some
reason, we just feel like wehave to, which is annoying,
(33:17):
which is kind of stupid alreadyto me, it's like we're
separating people on how theylike to fuck, like we are
deciding If you like it in yourbooty, it's.
If you like a dick in your butt, it's that.
But if it's a tongue, it's,it's okay, right, or it's this.
That on on premise, I'm likethat does not stand up to my
(33:42):
sense of logic, but like I'mgonna let y'all fit, I don't
care, I don't care, shut up, Idon't care.
That's dumb to me, but let mecontinue if we're gonna do that.
To me, the only thing thatmakes something like Gay or
straight as much as we want tomake those distinctions, is like
(34:04):
to me, truly, the sex act, likethat's.
That's the baseline for me.
If we must like, if weabsolutely, it's like, if we
absolutely must, which I feellike we're overthinking it.
We don't have to, but we'redoing it, so fuck it.
My like I'm gonna now when it'stalking a little bit about what
(34:26):
I don't think is problematicabout that thing.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
Um, Well, you didn't really say what you thought was.
Oh.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
Thank you, morgan, because that's important.
If you are, if you are thatfeels, if you're performing
Queerness while not being queer,that feels like appropriation.
That feels like that is.
That is duplicity, that isnefarious, that is, that is
(34:55):
Manipulative.
Like you are trying tomanipulate perspective While
knowing that you are, that youare lying.
That to me, that is not cool.
Here's what I don't think isProblematic.
(35:15):
I was remembering college.
I was a freshman in college,went to Morehouse, atlanta.
We talked about this Get tocollege.
Fashion is changing.
It's 2006.
It's changing.
In front of me, between talltees is what we used to wear
(35:36):
baggy ass clothes, fitted hats.
It's changing and it's gettingmore form fitting.
It's getting I Hate to put itlike this, but like more
polished, more, a little more um, a little more pleasing to like
the Polished aestheticsensibility.
(35:58):
It's just like it's getting alittle bit more metro.
I is how I would describe it'sgetting more metro.
And One of my friends made hesaid this and I've held on to it
he was he said it deadpan.
He wasn't fucking, wasn'tplaying.
He said gay is in, and what hemeant by that was all the things
I was just trying to describewith other words, as an
(36:19):
aesthetic.
He was saying basically the waythat gay dudes have been
dressing for the last 15 years.
Everybody's now coming aroundto that, like all dudes are now
coming around to that, and Allthat I think he meant is like
taking good care of yourself,wearing clothes that fit, having
(36:41):
a sensibility about how youlook to someone else that you're
trying to attract, and I dothink that's where it meets
friction with the straight malecrowd is I do try to dress in a
way that makes someone that ispleasing to the eye of someone
(37:04):
else.
That's true, I do try to.
I am on.
I was on TV for the first timewhen I was 12.
I became aware of otherpeople's eyeballs as a child
Sports plays.
My parents were extremelywatchful.
I became aware of how otherpeople saw me and I wrapped
myself around that in a lot ofways, and so I think when people
(37:32):
say something is gay versussomething is straight I mean
specifically when straight dudessay something is gay versus
something is straight I thinkwhat they're saying is like it's
taking into account somebodyelse's point of view, somebody
else's enjoyment of the momentor how you look.
It's generous in a way.
Alright, there was somewhere Iwanted to land the plane, but we
(37:56):
do have a good ending fromearlier.
That was pretty funny.
I guess where I'm landing isthis, which is, I think, right
now I am getting so muchinformation about how other
people see me, and I used tothink that was going to be, and
this is like I'm sharing thisfor other people who are scared
(38:19):
of being seen.
I used to think that was goingto be a cage.
I used to think that was goingto feel very confining and that
I was going to constantly feelinsecure about myself and feel
like watched.
What I actually feel is that,like the things that I was
already doing naturally, thingsI already liked those things
(38:42):
seem to they appeal.
I could only hear the voices.
The voices of straight men arethe loudest in this world that
we live in.
Those were the voices that Icould hear the most, and those
voices were very confining forme.
It's very nice to know thatthere are other swaths of people
out there who are in support ofhow I carry myself, who like
(39:05):
how I move around the earth, andthat empowers me to be more of
myself.
So I don't know.
That's pretty good.
I guess that's it.
Is there anything else you'dlike to say about queerbaiting.
Did we answer all the questions?
Speaker 3 (39:20):
I mean, yeah, I think you just answered the one about
whether or not you think you'redoing it, I think, or why you
think you're not doing it,because it already aligns with
your personality, or, like Ithink I'm.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
I don't think my answer on that is like clear.
I think it, because I think ithas parts of both.
Like I do think I'm.
I am a media executive.
Like I do want these people tocontinue to follow.
Now I'm enjoying it.
(40:00):
I like I'm.
I watched the little Nas X doclast night, like out of and just
to be clear, out of curiosity.
Like I, I love watching artistsdocs, I love watching music
people docs, I love watching theperform, I love watching
whatever.
But what I saw in that doc waslike A celebration of an
(40:20):
extremely Gen Z Queer artist andthe community that's following
him.
And I thought to myself, likethis is a huge community of
people who are this ready torally around someone who
(40:42):
represents their community.
And I know that that is notever going to be me and I don't
mean for it ever to be, I don'tknow.
I think this about a lot of likecommunities that stray further
and further away from like thewhite Protestant male ideal
Straight white Protestant maleideal.
It's like these communities arestarved for the shit that they
(41:05):
like.
Like black folks, we arestarving for good black shows.
We are starving for somebodythat looks like us doing
something interesting or cooland like.
I'm not of their community Iprobably am never going to be,
unless that's something thatchanges about people too, I
don't know.
But if they like me, because Idress a certain way and I move a
(41:28):
certain way and like, and alsobecause, like, I don't push them
away on purpose, I'm super goodwith that and I'm probably, I
probably am going to lean intoit yeah, I think I already am.
I mean, I'm not going to leanaway from it, I don't know.
Does that feel clear?
Yeah, all right.
Does anybody else want to weighin on this?
Speaker 3 (41:46):
My only thing, I guess, like you have to like
mention also is that, like theproblem with presenting as queer
when you're not, is that whenit comes down to it, and queer
people are being murdered andgay rights are being rolled back
and all that stuff, you are nota part of that group.
Speaker 1 (42:04):
How does pres what is , tell me what is?
How does one present as queer?
Speaker 3 (42:08):
I mean, I think like a common thing with queerbaiting
is, like at concerts, whenmusicians will like pull up and
make out somebody of the samegender just to like.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
Yeah, just to spice it up.
Speaker 3 (42:21):
Yeah, but it's like they're not actually interested.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
Oh, I think that's Well.
I would like to speak on that.
Speaker 3 (42:28):
But it's also 1248 by the way.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
All right, well, I'll make it quick, because I only
have a couple of things to sayabout this NBA thing.
Yeah, I mean, that is the otherLike.
So that's I'm glad you saidthat, because the moment that I
step outside of myself and whatI actually want to do, like how
I actually feel and what I wantlike to To generate more
(42:53):
interest from that particularaudience, I think all is lost.
Like everything then is broken.
Like starting with what'sinside me.
Like everything is broken.
The second that I'm willing tolie to kiss someone I'm not
attracted to, like for the sakeof, for the sake of like Like
(43:15):
stirring up and attracting moreof an audience.
I think that's, if that's notwho I actually am, I think
that's.
I don't even care about what itmeans for anybody else.
Like I hate that for me.
So, and it is bad because ofwhat it is for everybody, but
like I hate that for me.
If an artist will do thatbecause they think it's, they
(43:35):
think it's, they think it'sgonna help their audience growth
, that person is empty.
That means I.
Then I'm like, oh, they'll doanything Like what is the?
I mean, what will they not doif they could, if it's gonna
make people buy theirmerchandise more, like I do
think that's.
Yeah, I don't like that, Idon't like that.
(43:57):
But if I want to fucking looklike Jack Sparrow, like let me
have it, that's what I like,that's what I like.
All right, okay, we did it.
We're gonna talk about the AllStar game, which is like I even
just saying we're gonna talkabout it.
It feels like such a dead fish,but we're gonna do it Because
we have to, not because we haveto because I have things to say.
That's it, josh.
Did you have anything to add onthat?
Speaker 2 (44:18):
I did, but I'm a little short on.
We're short on time.
My opinion doesn't matter thatmuch.
Yeah, it does.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
Josh, josh, tell us, because who gives a fuck about
the All Star game?
The All Star game sucks.
Speaker 2 (44:28):
Yeah, actually.
Yeah, that's true, I do thinkthe All Star game sucks, and who
the hell still watches it?
But the only thing I'll say islike I'm not surprised.
It's funny, just add some extracontext into here.
I've had two or three clients,practically three clients,
specifically new ones, who havementioned or wanted to record
here and they're like oh, chadSanders records here.
That's part of the reason why Iknow and they are, that's fire
(44:52):
and they are and it's called,and two of them were queer, oh,
fire, and two of them were queer.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
That's so fire.
Speaker 2 (44:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (45:01):
That's so tight.
Okay, influencer hey.
Speaker 2 (45:05):
So, like when you told me, when you told me you
wanted, or when I heard aboutyou talking about the subject,
to me it wasn't surprising.
But to make this really quick,though, I think what they are
attracted to them being thequeer community, I think, from
my perspective that community alot of people of that community
have to grow up.
(45:26):
They have to repress who theyare.
They can't be their authenticselves, and it takes them a long
time to sort of figure out whotheir authentic selves Not all
of them, but a good majority ofthem have that as part of their
story and I think they're reallyattracted to anybody that
really is able to.
For example, I will call itradical self-expression and
radical authenticity, and Ithink that's part of what you, I
(45:47):
would say, ascribe to yourbrand, and I think that's a
large reason why they areattracted to you.
Outside of the obvious things,I would say, yes, your looks the
way you dress a little bit, butobviously.
But I don't see that asqueerbaiting.
I see that as you.
That's always been you.
You've never been anything else, and if anybody who talks to
you within five minutes knowsthat you're not queerbaiting.
Speaker 1 (46:10):
Yeah, right, yeah, and that's the other thing that
I'm like.
Thank you, josh, I don't give afuck about the All Star game,
all Star games.
All right, let me get my AllStar game shit off, and then
we're not even going to do music, we're going to keep talking
about this because, josh, thatwas so.
Thank you for telling us thatthat's so cool, bro.
All right, couple things Shit.
Can I just say really quicklywhy the All Star game is so ass?
(46:33):
Can you please keep that rightthere?
I'm going to probably forget alittle bit what you just said.
I'm going to all right, guys,guys, guys, guys, ladies,
gentlemen, everybody.
If the players don't care aboutthe game, I refuse to fucking
care about the game and I'mstarting to feel that, listen, I
am probably in the 99.99percentile of NBA fans on Earth.
(46:56):
There are few people who careand follow the NBA more closely
than I do.
If the players don't care aboutthe game, the All Star game,
the regular season.
Giannis himself said he does notwatch basketball games.
Why the fuck am I going towatch that?
I'm not a fucking plebe.
(47:17):
You don't just get to throwanything you want at me as a
product and I just have to drinkit down Like that's just,
that's like fuck off, I don'tcare.
Like you know what, I've beensaying this in private, so I'm
going to say it in public too.
I had an agenda.
I wanted to be in support ofall these NBA players with
(47:39):
podcasts.
These guys suck at podcasting.
There's like three of them whoare good.
The rest of them are fuckingterrible.
Dreymont Green good.
Paul George pretty good.
Jj Reddick obnoxious but good.
All the smoke.
(47:59):
Pat Beverly, all the smoke.
Retirees are better, like muchbetter.
They have perspective.
They're not in it.
In the same way, they're notprotecting allegiances.
I don't listen, I don't care, Idon't care.
I don't care.
I don't care.
I don't need to do businesswith any of you niggas.
I don't care if you like me ordon't.
I don't care if I see your tallasses outside.
(48:19):
I don't care, I don't care.
You guys are not good at this.
Stop it, don't stop trying.
I'm not saying that, but like,stop telling us you hate that.
Like telling us you don't careabout the game.
Stop showing us you don't careabout the game and expecting us
to keep showing up and listeningand watching.
Like, if you don't care, Idon't care.
(48:42):
I'll be there for the playoffs.
I actually feel that way.
I sound like an old white guy.
I don't mean to, but that's howI feel.
Okay, let's get back to this.
That's it, like that's my allstar game coverage.
Speaker 3 (48:53):
Sports segment.
That was our sports segment.
Speaker 1 (48:55):
Yeah, that should suck.
Adam Silver, figure it out.
I don't care, I don't care, Idon't care.
I can hear the voices of whatthey would say to this.
I don't care, I don't fuckingcare.
All right, assanti Black.
You know what?
Assanti Black?
Speaker 2 (49:11):
is no.
Who's that?
Speaker 1 (49:12):
He was the actor who played the lead, the lead.
Speaker 3 (49:15):
No, he was one of the leads.
Speaker 1 (49:17):
He was one of the leads when they see us, okay,
and he just he, random, oh I, heliked her something, one of the
reels, and I just followed upand was like hey bro, how'd you
find, how'd you find me?
And he said he found me throughthe show.
And then he said he wanted tocome on the show and do a
freestyle over the song Vulturesfrom the Kanye Vultures album.
(49:37):
I was like, okay, cool, comethrough.
Who else just told me they likethe show?
Lena Waise been fucking withthe show.
She's not going to come on theshow, but she said she will have
a private.
She's going to.
We're going to catch upone-on-one.
Aida is going to be our guestin LA.
The show is having.
It's having an impact.
(49:58):
Like what you just said aboutthe show or, I guess, about me,
but I think that's as extensionof the show is like that's fire,
like it's happening, it'shappening, I feel it happening.
Shaq obviously loves the show.
Huge fan, huge fan, whateverman.
I can watch Shaq on TV again.
(50:18):
I took like three weeks off ofhim.
Okay, I think, josh, I think younailed something and the one
thing that you said thatactually was true, but I need to
sharpen it, which is like yousaid.
This is how you are and whoyou've always been and,
truthfully, it is who I'vealways been, but it's not how I
(50:41):
have always behaved.
It's who I've been, but it'snot how I have been.
And that is because I felt sosquished by the pressure of one
specific type of conformity tothe straight black male
(51:02):
presentation Like you must, guys, and imagine, like, imagine
what a box that is for me.
When it's like nah, you'resupposed to be this height,
you're supposed to have thesemuscles, You're supposed to have
this chain, you're supposed tohave this car, you're supposed
(51:23):
to have a part of theaccoutrement that you're being
sold.
Is like you're supposed to havethis girlfriend who looks like
this, but who is an extremity,who's not actually like a person
.
It doesn't really fit any of usto.
If you look at it like this, ifyou're really looking at it,
but it's still so boxy I stillgo to my hometown.
(51:46):
I see it here too.
I mean it's not like, but Istill go to my hometown and I
see people still living likethey got bought on a rack at
Toys R Us with the same setup,and it hurts, it doesn't feel
good, and so I do think you'reright.
There's a level of expressionthat I think is celebrated.
(52:08):
I saw it while watching thatdoc next to it, and I also don't
wanna put all queer people in abox, because there's certainly
so many queer people who presentjust like you know, just like I
do, or did six, seven years ago.
There's a celebration ofthere's a release, there's a
celebration of I give up, ormaybe, if they see it better
(52:30):
than I do, like I realize, Iaccept myself, I realize this is
who I am.
No amount of trying to besomebody else for someone else
is gonna work.
So like, so fuck it.
I've been reaching out tosponsors for the last, or I was
reaching out to sponsors alllast night.
I probably reached out to like25 potential sponsors.
(52:52):
I'm like literally DMing off,like hey, this is who I am.
Look over here.
Look, look, look at DaxShepherd, look at Spike Lee,
look at Julie Bowen, look at allthis shit.
Give me money.
Basically, that's basically themessage.
Okay, look at my audience.
I know these people look whothey are 25 to 55 year old black
people, people of color, whitewomen.
(53:12):
I know you wanna sell shit tothem.
Let me help you.
Let me be your on the streetdrug dealer.
Literally reached out toDayquil and Nightquil.
Speaker 3 (53:22):
Let me sell drugs for you.
I should send them the sickreel.
Speaker 1 (53:28):
I mean, like I'm right here, we should cut this
up.
Like, come on, man, it's easy,talk to me, I'll help you, talk
to them.
I'm not gonna sell themanything I don't use or don't
like, but come on, and why don'tI just bring that up?
Oh, acceptance, self-acceptance.
While doing so, I also realized, oh, the first thing they're
(53:52):
gonna collide with after theyget past my pinned shit on my
Instagram is gonna be a reelwhere the first words out my
mouth are white people you guyslike mixed people better than
black people and if they can'tfuck with that, then I guess
they're the wrong sponsors forme.
Like, if they can't, you knowwhat I mean.
Like, if I got, it's not gonnawork, I can't.
(54:12):
It's a moving target for me totry to change what I have to say
and who I am to work for them.
So, like, fuck it.
I guess if they can't get withthat, then I'm just screwed.
But I don't think I'm screwed.
All right, it's one o'clock onthe dot, let's get out of here.
This has been Nothing Banerkythe show that explores sexuality
(54:33):
and queer baiting, and we did agreat segment on the All Star
game today.
So we will not be back onThursday.
We'll see you guys Tuesday,same time, right here.
Also, the live show audio willbe available for a few bucks on
(54:54):
Thursday because it costs moneyto do all this.
So like, come on, fuck with me,fuck with me, all right, that's
it.
Delicious music years into next.
Alright, welcome to Nothing but Anarchy.
This is episode number 88,number of Michael Irvin.
Number of CD-Lam, the number ofDes Bryant Apparently, they
(00:22):
have a group text with all the88s from the Cowboys who like
check in on each other and giveeach other support, etc.
I think it's really cool.
So I noticed something, whichis when we got okay, this is
what happened.
This is what happened.
This is what happened.
This is what happened.
This is what happened.
This is what happened.
This is what happened.
This is what happened.
(00:44):
We did the live show, stood on acouch, talked to 50 to 60
people who I mean 50 people, notincluding the staff of the
restaurant.
So 50 people who I know oh,let's say, 30 people who I know
and trust and 20 strangers.
They're abouts, they're peoplewho I know that at least 10 of
them, if they felt like I wasgoing too far, they would reel
(01:09):
me in, including Wargatron, whowas there, and they didn't.
And, to the contrary, in fact,most of them, after the show,
expressed some level of positivefeedback for the tone of the
show.
They liked what the show speaksto and they liked that I didn't
(01:29):
shy away from what needs to besaid.
About what needs to be said, Iam.
This is something I'm having tocome to grips with, okay,
because it is not the identitythat I thought I wanted to
inhabit for most of my life.
I am having to come to gripswith the fact that I am a nice
person and boys, I believe, aresocialized to believe that
(01:56):
niceness, kindness, will holdyou back in capitalism, in
dating, in socialization.
You're not socialized as a boy.
I think in this country, inthis world, you are not
socialized to admire kindness.
(02:17):
We look up to some people, lookup to Kobe Bryant, because
y'all niggas are weird and youforgot about that thing, but
most of us, Morgan, are younervous?
Did that make you nervous?
No, okay, you took a breath.
That's weird that y'all justforgot about that thing.
Y'all don't think that's weird,josh, you think that's weird?
Speaker 2 (02:36):
I never forgot that thing.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Why do niggas just y'all niggas are weird?
Because y'all, just y'all.
I just don't understand.
Okay, that's not even what Icame here to get into.
Stop, I'm not going down thatroad.
But y'all niggas are you Kobefans are fucking weird as shit.
I wouldn't trust y'all niggasfurther than I could throw you.
You guys are weird as hell.
But let's get back to the point.
We are socialized to look up topeople like, let's say, michael
(03:01):
Jordan.
Let's say, I don't knowSuperman.
Superman's a bad example.
He's pretty nice.
You're socialized to look up tothe big, squash-buckling,
powerful, cutthroat, focused,unempathetic man.
That's what you're socializedto look up to.
(03:22):
Maybe these babies that arecoming up now.
In fact I'm even watching itwith my nephews, but your
parents are probably teachingyou all something different.
But I'm 35, growing up.
Kindness was not high on thechart in terms of how they were
trying to socialize us boys.
At basketball practice my coachdidn't say make sure you don't
(03:43):
hurt anybody out there.
He said in so many words.
He said scrape a nigga's eyesout if that's what you have to
do to get a loose ball.
And I took that on and tookthat with me through college and
it hasn't worn right on my skinfor most of my life because
(04:06):
underneath it, whatever I wastrying to pretend to be, I am a
nice person.
My favorite thing and peopleare asking me very existential
questions on Instagram right nowbecause I'm telling them to I'm
like, hey, ask me a questionyou think I want to answer
honestly, and something thatcomes up is like what is your
heart's greatest desire?
My favorite thing to do is sitaround with people that I like
(04:32):
and just catch a vibe, talk liketalk about what we see
happening around us.
We went to me, tim and Delisa.
We drove to Gotham City Burgeron Sunday in the Lower East Side
.
I got a car.
My parents gave me my old carback from college.
I had to sell my car, spent 10days, or however long, walking
(04:57):
to the gym 45 minutes andwalking home, taking Ubers to
the studio, and I just went homeover the weekend to Maryland.
My mom got a new car, so I gotmy old car back from college.
I'm driving a 2000,.
This is how glamorous my lifeis, guys.
I'm driving a 2008 NissanAltima around New York City
right now.
(05:17):
Okay, because I want you guysto know just how sexy it is to
be me.
Pick up Tim and Delisa fromBushwick drive to Lower East
Side.
We're about to pull up to ourparking spot and I'm like it's
like I can pretend for longenough with people that I'm down
(05:38):
to to, like not with my friends, friends but like I can pretend
enough to be kind, to begenerous, to like that I'm down
to talk about some dumb shit,but I'm like with my real
friends.
I'm like, okay, delisa, give mesome gossip.
Like, come on, come on, tell mesomething, give me something
real that we can like dig intohere.
Like, what's going on with yourfriends?
Who's not fucking with who?
(05:58):
Who's being shady?
I do it to Morgan too.
Like, morgan, come on, like,because what, what are we doing?
Like, what are we doing?
What are we talking about?
Like, come on, like let's talkabout what we are.
Let's talk about what we reallyare.
Let's not talk, let's notpretend.
Like let's talk about who andwhat we really are.
So I forgot.
(06:21):
What the fuck am I even talkingabout?
What does that have to do withbeing nice?
Oh well, okay, so I'm realizingthat what I actually care about
is what I actually amunderneath that that window
dressing is someone who's nice,who likes to hang out, who likes
to kick it with his friends,who, like that's what I am Like.
(06:42):
I tried to fit, I tried to wearalso that dumbass like Mark
Zuckerberg, silicon Valley boy.
Wear the same clothes every day.
Like turn yourself into a sharpobject as a person so you can
just knife your way, you know,through capitalism to the top,
and that also doesn't feel verygood.
(07:03):
That sucks ass.
That's so bad at parties.
I bet that's so bad in thebedroom for those guys.
They're probably terrible atsex.
Okay, right, no, okay, whateverI think.
So I don't fuck with thoseniggas, all right.
Where am I going with this?
I don't even remember.
Truly, I don't even know.
I don't even know, like I justI got back in front of the
(07:28):
microphone and I meant to startsomewhere and I completely lost
my way.
But these are all things thatare relevant to me anyway, so
I'm glad I'm getting them off.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
All I know is that you said something about being a
kind guy and then talked aboutthis.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
And then say how bad.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
those guys are All right, fuck it.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Here's what I do have to say, okay.
And then I where I'm going.
Actually I meant to do thislast time.
Oh, I know I did this, okay, sowe did a live show.
We did a live show.
My people were like it's great,keep going, like do the thing.
That's why I said all that shitabout being underneath it all,
and that don't mean like I'm not, I'm not like a quote, unquote
(08:09):
nice guy, hate those guys.
I hate those guys.
Oh my God, and I'm not one ofthem.
Okay, that much I want toassure you of.
I am not one of those.
Woe is me in the face as boys.
Okay, hate those niggas.
You guys know what I'm talkingabout.
You guys know guys who wearniceness as their identity.
Like and they're so pathetic.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
Oh, I thought you meant the ones that do it in
like a toxic way.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Um, I mean, to me it is toxic.
I don't so I'm not necessarilymeaning like I know there are
guys who are like they use beingthe nice guy to get action.
I don't really mean that, butthat's kind of.
But it's in the realm, it'slike.
It's like the like super, youknow gentle guy who's like so
(08:54):
frail, such a weeping willow ofa human being that you can't
actually say something real tothem because they might just
like break in front of you, theymight just completely like fall
apart.
Do you know what I'm talkingabout?
Yeah, okay, thank you.
Why are you laughing?
Speaker 3 (09:10):
Because I just have a very like you know exactly what
I'm talking about.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Oh my God, those people are so annoying.
Like you can't.
You can't do anything aroundthere, you can't live like.
You can't have a realconversation with them, you
can't tell them anything, youcan't.
They can't keep a secret.
God, those I hate, those niggas.
All right, All right, All right, Most of them are white guys,
by the way.
Okay, so for real, we don't, wedon't really get to do that.
(09:34):
It's like, that's not, that'snot available as an identity to
us, as far as I can tell, with afew exceptions.
I don't even know who they are.
All right, why am I saying that?
Because the live show changedme a little bit, I feel, to
(09:57):
Morgan's dismay.
I feel empowered now to bebolder about what it is that I
have to say and more forthcoming.
Okay.
So it is no coincidence that weleft that show, came right back
and I walked into the studioknowing exactly what I needed to
say to stir up a buzz on theinternet, which is asking white
(10:22):
people if they like makes peoplebetter.
I was like oh, I got one.
I know this.
And when I say I got one, okay,I am a, I am a
conversationalist.
I care about, I like toactually try to find something
that societally, we have notfully adjudicated, we have not
(10:43):
fully, we haven't really.
It's like we're close, We'vecircled it but it's a little
sensitive, so we haven'tactually nailed it, we haven't
actually hit the mark and thereare certain conversations that
are so, so hot buttony that wenever hit the mark because it
(11:03):
gets.
It's just the heat gets turnedup so high in there that we kind
of just like stop, we stopbefore we get to the thing.
So I said the thing we do, we dothe.
You know, we put the reel outand I know, I know, I know a
reel is going crazy becauseeither one Morgan tells me or
two my people in my real lifebring it up to me.
(11:25):
Most of the time my closefriends.
We don't really talk about mywork that much unless something
has gone, unless something hasreached outside the bubble right
, Unless it's coming back tothem from other angles, like
someone else who we don't talkto all the time sent them this
thing, and that happened withthis one.
(11:48):
And so now today I have walkedinto this studio with something
that I believe is another thingthat I know genuinely.
I don't have the answer onMorgan.
Are you scared?
You said you were.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
I am because you said I'm coming in at 100 miles an
hour.
Like that's a scary thing tohear Chad say.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Well, okay, because I thought about this sometimes.
Here's a problem, and I saidthis also at the live show like
this thing is so important,these microphones are so special
.
I'm watching them make a wayfor my life, like they are
making a way for me.
I'm like that's so cool Talking.
(12:35):
I talked to Dax the other nightName drop.
I talked to Dax the other night.
Oh, my God, so many armchairexperts people on my Instagram.
I'm like you guys are reallyobsessed with armchair expert.
They're like asking me thesereally detailed questions about
armchair expert.
I'm like I've listened to likethree episodes of armchair
expert and I'm on two of them.
But talk to Dax the other night.
(12:55):
I'm calling people.
I'm calling people.
I'm like, hey, I know where I'mgoing now.
I need money to fuel this thing.
I keep doing it with my ownmoney, but it's gonna take
longer to get there and I wasn'tasking Dax for money.
But I'm like, do you knowsomebody who will get?
Introduce me to a rich gambler.
That's what I'm looking for.
(13:15):
I'm looking for a rich personwho will put their money on
something that they don'ttotally understand how the
money's gonna come back.
That's the truth.
Like if you introduce me to aventure capitalist and they
wanna put me in front of aspreadsheet like it's not gonna
work like that.
I need a rich gambler, somebodywho will give me $50,000 and
(13:37):
they will go use $100,000 at theBlackjack table that night.
Like that's what I'm lookingfor.
Dax definitely knows somebodylike that.
That has nothing to do with whathe said to me, though.
We start just shooting thisshit for a second and he says I
thought I was gonna be done withthis thing now-ish.
(14:00):
And now that I've done thismuch, I love this thing.
I love the pro-.
I've been reading and listeningto a lot about process.
I just love talking to people.
That's what he says.
I just love talking to peopleand I feel that I didn't expect
us, societally, to be at thisplace at the height of my
(14:22):
probably the beginning of theheight of, like my sort of
professional earning power years, which I guess are like 35 to
50 or something like that.
I didn't expect us to be at aplace where talking was gonna be
such a thing Not rapping, notsinging, not doing a talk show,
(14:42):
but like literally this thing.
And now that we're here, I'malso watching something and this
could be me flying toward abuzzsaw, and I can't.
I don't care Like I can't.
I can't stop that.
Morgan, did you take a deepbreath?
Are you nervous?
No, are you?
nervous in general about thiswhole thing?
Are you nervous in generalabout this whole direction?
Speaker 3 (15:02):
I just, I don't know what you're gonna say.
I hate, I mean, I usually don'tknow what you're gonna say.
But, like on specific topics,I'm just like is Chad gonna get
canceled?
Speaker 2 (15:11):
today Like.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
I don't think I am, but you never know, any day
could be your day.
But I'm realizing.
That's why I was bringing upthese mics.
This is powerful.
And sometimes I get up herebecause I realize I'm not on the
cutting edge of what theconversation is in terms of what
(15:39):
you are allowed to say aboutcertain things.
I get up here and I talk aboutsome shit and I'm and I'd be
doing it halfway cause I'mscared, cause I don't know what
the fuck I'm saying.
No, I know what I'm saying andI know what I feel, but I don't
know what is allowed to be said.
Does that make sense?
Yes, maybe some of that's okay.
Last thing, the thing is aboutqueer baiting.
(16:01):
For the record, that's what weare going to explore.
No, no more things.
We're going to get to thebottom, maybe, of what is queer
baiting.
We're going to do so with noqueer people in the room.
Excellent.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
Great job by us.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Great job by us.
We're going to talk about queerbaiting and we're going to talk
about whether or not we aregoing to adjudicate whether or
not I am guilty of queer baiting.
Okay, all right, let's talkabout queer baiting.
Why are we talking about this?
All right, let's start here.
There's a couple, there's a fewquestions that are here.
Number one what is queerbaiting and why is it bad?
(16:46):
And like, let me also justheadline this one by itself why
is queer baiting bad?
Why is it frowned upon?
Why do so many queer guys thinkI'm gay?
Or do they even think I'm gay?
(17:10):
Or they just shoot in theirshot to see what happens?
And how should I feel aboutthat?
Those are the questions.
Okay, I'm realizing Morgan'sgoing to be nervous for this
whole segment, so I can't lookto her for affirmation as I
shoot this off.
(17:31):
No, you're feelings are valid.
If you're nervous, you shouldbe, because I've done very
little research on this topic.
I'm just ready to get my shitoff, okay, the first question is
what is queer baiting?
You have a first, morgan.
This is what happened.
This is what happened.
This is what happened.
I'm gonna start at thebeginning.
(17:54):
Probably since college, I havefelt the.
I have felt the.
What's the word the?
It's not admiration, it's notaffection.
Exactly, gays, gay dudes, haveliked me for a long time.
(18:17):
That's how it's been, that'swhat it is.
I feel so much more comfortablesaying that up here than saying
women have liked me.
Okay, cause you're not allowedto say that.
You're allowed, but you areallowed to say gay dudes have
liked me for a long sincecollege.
Okay, remember Facebook honestybox, do you all?
Speaker 3 (18:33):
no, you definitely don't no, I remember like two
like two be honest statuses.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
No, that's not what it is.
It was a box.
I don't remember this either OnFacebook you could opt into
this box where people could justwrite you an anonymous message
on Facebook, right Almost likethe questions thing I do on
Instagram, but where youcouldn't see who asked it.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
A word yeah, they need to bring that back.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
It was fire.
It was really cool.
You had what?
Ask FM, yeah, okay, well, sohonesty box.
The reason why you used it isbecause you wanted to either
shoot your shot at somebodyanonymously which makes no sense
or receive them shooting theirshot at you.
Put my honesty box up.
Oh, and Facebook.
The only thing it would tellyou via the color of the message
(19:22):
pink or blue is whether or notit came from a guy or a gal.
That was it.
So put my face.
I'm a freshman in college.
I live in Graves Hall with myroommate.
This is the part of the storywith my roommate who eventually
became my fraternity brother,who eventually came out as queer
after we were out of college.
(19:43):
That's just something to justkeep that in the box.
Like, just know it.
I put my honesty box up,expecting a flood of women from
Spellman and Clark who are tooshy to approach me in real life
(20:04):
to tell me that they have acrush on me, and instead what I
got was a nonstop flood of bluemessages saying anything from
basic shit like you're cute, areyou straight, or are you
straight or not?
Aren't you in that class?
(20:26):
Yada, yada, yada, yada, rangingall the way into the loon and
explicit, as I'm sure you guyscan imagine.
All right that because andhere's another dimension of this
that I want to keep here Likedudes are dudes, yeah, like gay,
straight, bi, whatever acrossthe spectrum.
(20:49):
Like dudes are dudes and dudesare fucking nasty and lewd and
forward.
Okay, that's what it is.
Recently, I have received quitea deluge of messages from guys
(21:09):
ranging in between you know,you're like, you're good looking
.
Some guys say you're beautiful,which I know is like the basic
ass shit.
Guys say to women as well thatthey think sounds interesting or
better than just being likeyou're fine.
You know what I mean.
All the way over to nothinglike now I can see who they are,
(21:31):
so they don't jump out as crazyas like some of the shit that
they used to say in college orsome of the ice to live in the
West Village.
Some of the comments I wouldget in passing as I walk by in
the West Village Um, but prettyforward, you know what I mean.
A series of guys asking what'sup with me.
Um, I have been doing a lot ofQ and A's on my Instagram.
(21:52):
Ask me a question you think Iwon't answer.
Honestly, I get quite a fewguys asking do you?
As, for example, when I got twodays ago, um, are you attracted
to people of my gender, whichis another fancy way of saying
like, do you like megas, do youlike men?
Let's use that one.
(22:13):
I'm trying to a little spacefrom the inward for me, all
right, and I have been wantingto explore exactly, and I have
been having this conversationwith friends, my sister
morgatron to an extent, like I'mtrying to understand what it is
, what it is that I am signalingthat would make people think
(22:42):
I'm gay or queer.
And I'm also wondering if,because queer guys are just guys
, if they're doing the samething that straight guys do,
which is where they know a womanhas said I only like women, but
they just can't hear thatbecause they're guys and they
(23:05):
don't listen.
They don't actually payattention, like they don't care.
All that they're thinking isbut I like you.
So when are you going to comearound to liking guys?
Never is what those ladies aregenerally trying to make clear,
but guys ain't are not trying tohear that.
How do you feel, morgan?
What's your nervousness levelat zero to 10?
Speaker 3 (23:28):
I'm not like a four or five.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
All right, great.
So I put it.
I'm doing the Q&A, I send more.
I forgot what I sent Morgan.
I sent Morgan something andprobably was like what's up with
this?
Why do these guys think of gayor something like that?
And again, I'm not playingoblivious, like, oh, this is
(23:52):
what it was.
This is what it was In responseto one of those questions.
The exercise was ask me thisshould go in the row right here.
The exercise that I presentedwas ask me a question that you
think I will not answer honestly.
If I won't answer it, you get apoint.
Somebody asked me do you like mygender?
A guy asked me that.
(24:12):
It's basically asking me areyou queer?
And I'm driving home from, I'mdriving back to New York from
Maryland in my 2008 NissanAltima and I, what I feel come
over me, this is what's going toget us into queerbaiting.
What I feel come into me, comeover, come over me, keep that,
that was good Is I am not.
(24:38):
I felt myself realizing, oh,like I don't know if I'm ready
to be honest about my sexualityhere, like, not like I've like
hidden it in some way, but likeI have been quite happy for if a
bunch of queer guys like me andit helps them to believe that I
(25:03):
might like them.
I have been happy to accept thatbecause at the moment, at the
discurrent point in time, whatChad is focused on is grabbing a
large audience, like that'swhat matters to me right now.
Is it nefarious, is it not?
I don't think so.
What I'm trying to do is liketired of fucking with all these
(25:23):
other people's audiences andstudios and celebrities and
whatever.
Like my audience, mine, and I'mhappy to do that by presenting
myself as like a part of theoffering.
There's the creativity, there'sthe, there's writing, there's
podcasts, there's images.
It's a whole world that we'rebuilding here and if a part of
(25:47):
it is here is also Chad as theperson, as the avatar who you
can slot in as like maybe thatperson would be attracted to me.
I've been happy to go with that, not just for dudes.
For a lot of people who I'm notattracted to.
This is good.
This is coming out good Cause Ireally mean it.
(26:08):
It's clear and I'm not scaredof being canceled.
But take that out, okay.
Thank you, I realized it washedover me.
I don't know if I'm ready totell whatever sized audience of,
whatever part of my audience isqueer guys.
(26:30):
I don't know if I'm ready totell them I'm not into guys.
I felt that I felt it becausehere's the thing getting into
the weeds.
But that's the point.
This is the show.
When I answer these questions,when I do even this job, I'm
trying to do, I'm trying to like, I'm trying to like bring it
(26:51):
from inside and what's real.
And so sometimes, when, when Idon't know, oh, what's going to
be interesting, what's going tobe generous to the audience here
, a good way for me to find itis like well, what do I actually
feel right now?
And that's what I felt.
I felt myself about to exposemyself.
And I was like Chad, are youready to expose yourself so long
(27:15):
?
Tag, I did it because I knew itwas gonna be good content.
That's really why I did it.
And I say and I tell, I'm likeExplaining it to the, to the
camera.
I'm like, hey, this is why Ihaven't said outright that I'm
straight, but I'm straight, Ididn't want to like alienate any
particular part of my audience.
Blah, blah, blah, blah,whatever.
(27:35):
Put it out there.
And then I start getting funnyresponses.
One of them comes from myfriend, bethany, who I went to
college with who says IGenuinely don't think I've ever
seen someone come out andstraight and I was like, yeah, I
thought of.
And then I respond.
(27:56):
I was like, hey, can I postthis?
Because it's funny as shit.
And then I posted.
People thought it's funny, butthere's a point.
Here's the point.
Let's go back to the point.
Let's stop too many dimensionsof the internet.
Let's just talk about the point.
The point is I Want to know isthere something sleazy?
Is there something duplicitous?
Is there something Dishonorableabout me Knowing that?
(28:19):
That is one of the audience.
There's another audience that Ihave an internet relationship
with, which is like guys, ready,scary, but we're gonna put it
on here.
It's like 40 to 55 year oldsuburban white women.
Okay, we're gonna put it onhere Because it's true I don't
(28:41):
care, it's true I don't, and andand.
For both of those audiences, Iit's like if someone asked me to
sit down and write out what areyou doing?
That's appealing to thoseaudiences.
Maybe this is why it's a littlesomething.
I could probably do it if theywere like hey, write the 10
(29:02):
things about you that you thinkMake soccer moms like you white
ones.
If they were like hey, writeout the 10 things that you think
make Queer dudes like you.
I could probably do it, and Iguess this is a question about
marketing, it's a question aboutidentity, it's a question about
(29:22):
the internet.
If I Continue to step intothose things, I'll tell you guys
right now.
If the reason why I Queer guyslike me is because, as I put it
to someone in my DMs, like Idon't know, I think it's because
I talk about feelings and I'mpretty Morgan Morgan nods.
(29:43):
Thank you that.
I mean.
If that's the reason, it cuz Ihave nice jewelry, it's cuz I
get my hair done, it's because Ibrush my teeth at morning and
at night, it's because, like ILook, I mean I'll keep it a buck
with you guys.
My body's not where I want itto be, but like I'm 35 guys like
you guys know what 35 year oldslook like.
(30:04):
You guys know.
You guys know 35 year olds looklike Josh, you look great too,
but y'all know, you know whatmost of our age look like.
Yeah, most of our age are it'sgetting close, yeah, you
understand.
So here's the point.
Here's the point.
Here's what.
If they like me for things thatI also like about myself, I'm
(30:25):
not gonna like bend in theopposite direction Just to avoid
baiting, or Because I know justas well as there's some, gonna
be some people when they hearthis that are gonna nod along
and be like, yeah, you do kindof be like that.
Yeah, you are kind of like that, that's cool, whatever.
I think my sister even likes it.
(30:45):
My sister's like that's coolthat you're not Whatever,
whatever.
That's not the point.
It's gonna be some other dudeswho are like, literally, you're
gonna be like no, nigga, that'sgay, dware jewelry and all that
shit.
Like no, that's gay.
Like literally, that's whatthey're gonna say to themselves,
(31:07):
to each other, and a couple ofthem in a moment, here there,
somewhere in private, they'regonna say that to me Okay,
morgan, john, what's queerbaiting?
What's the definition?
Speaker 3 (31:21):
Do you want my definition?
Speaker 1 (31:22):
I want yours first cuz you were the one who was
like when I sent it to.
Speaker 3 (31:28):
He sent me the.
He was like oh, like, I want toadd this to the docket.
And I was like, okay, yeah, bythe way, like when I saw this,
like it really brings up queerbaiting like what you were like
talking about, like in yourresponse to you, and he was like
what's that?
He's learned how.
You're like thatself-explanatory, but like what
is it?
I mean like.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
I it was pretty self-explanatory, but I was like
what is it?
And you explained what is it,what?
Speaker 3 (31:56):
was it to you for me.
I consider it to be someonethat's like Purposefully
presenting themselves in a waythat could be like Like that
could be perceived as beingqueer when they're not and so,
(32:20):
and then, like I asked one of myother friends and he was like
like performative queerness,basically when that's not
actually like the group that youidentify with, right.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
Yeah, okay, and so here's a distinction that I made
intellectually, once you toldme what it was.
Here's what I know isproblematic and this should
probably go into I Think it isin the definition that I saw,
either that you sent me or Ifound a Wikipedia.
I saw One dimension of queerbaiting is performing queerness
(32:56):
for the intention of Attractingan audience, selling something
whatever, whatever, whatever,like um, and this is what's so
crazy for me, like in as much aswe separate sexuality, in as
much as we make sexualitydistinctions which, for some
reason, we just feel like wehave to, which is annoying,
(33:17):
which is kind of stupid alreadyto me, it's like we're
separating people on how theylike to fuck, like we are
deciding If you like it in yourbooty, it's.
If you like a dick in your butt, it's that.
But if it's a tongue, it's,it's okay, right, or it's this.
That on on premise, I'm likethat does not stand up to my
(33:42):
sense of logic, but like I'mgonna let y'all fit, I don't
care, I don't care, shut up, Idon't care.
That's dumb to me, but let mecontinue if we're gonna do that.
To me, the only thing thatmakes something like Gay or
straight as much as we want tomake those distinctions, is like
(34:04):
to me, truly, the sex act, likethat's.
That's the baseline for me.
If we must like, if weabsolutely, it's like, if we
absolutely must, which I feellike we're overthinking it.
We don't have to, but we'redoing it, so fuck it.
My like I'm gonna now when it'stalking a little bit about what
(34:26):
I don't think is problematicabout that thing.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
Um, Well, you didn't really say what you thought was.
Oh.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
Thank you, morgan, because that's important.
If you are, if you are thatfeels, if you're performing
Queerness while not being queer,that feels like appropriation.
That feels like that is.
That is duplicity, that isnefarious, that is, that is
(34:55):
Manipulative.
Like you are trying tomanipulate perspective While
knowing that you are, that youare lying.
That to me, that is not cool.
Here's what I don't think isProblematic.
(35:15):
I was remembering college.
I was a freshman in college,went to Morehouse, atlanta.
We talked about this Get tocollege.
Fashion is changing.
It's 2006.
It's changing.
In front of me, between talltees is what we used to wear
(35:36):
baggy ass clothes, fitted hats.
It's changing and it's gettingmore form fitting.
It's getting I Hate to put itlike this, but like more
polished, more, a little more um, a little more pleasing to like
the Polished aestheticsensibility.
(35:58):
It's just like it's getting alittle bit more metro.
I is how I would describe it'sgetting more metro.
And One of my friends made hesaid this and I've held on to it
he was he said it deadpan.
He wasn't fucking, wasn'tplaying.
He said gay is in, and what hemeant by that was all the things
I was just trying to describewith other words, as an
(36:19):
aesthetic.
He was saying basically the waythat gay dudes have been
dressing for the last 15 years.
Everybody's now coming aroundto that, like all dudes are now
coming around to that, and Allthat I think he meant is like
taking good care of yourself,wearing clothes that fit, having
(36:41):
a sensibility about how youlook to someone else that you're
trying to attract, and I dothink that's where it meets
friction with the straight malecrowd is I do try to dress in a
way that makes someone that ispleasing to the eye of someone
(37:04):
else.
That's true, I do try to.
I am on.
I was on TV for the first timewhen I was 12.
I became aware of otherpeople's eyeballs as a child
Sports plays.
My parents were extremelywatchful.
I became aware of how otherpeople saw me and I wrapped
myself around that in a lot ofways, and so I think when people
(37:32):
say something is gay versussomething is straight I mean
specifically when straight dudessay something is gay versus
something is straight I thinkwhat they're saying is like it's
taking into account somebodyelse's point of view, somebody
else's enjoyment of the momentor how you look.
It's generous in a way.
Alright, there was somewhere Iwanted to land the plane, but we
(37:56):
do have a good ending fromearlier.
That was pretty funny.
I guess where I'm landing isthis, which is, I think, right
now I am getting so muchinformation about how other
people see me, and I used tothink that was going to be, and
this is like I'm sharing thisfor other people who are scared
(38:19):
of being seen.
I used to think that was goingto be a cage.
I used to think that was goingto feel very confining and that
I was going to constantly feelinsecure about myself and feel
like watched.
What I actually feel is that,like the things that I was
already doing naturally, thingsI already liked those things
(38:42):
seem to they appeal.
I could only hear the voices.
The voices of straight men arethe loudest in this world that
we live in.
Those were the voices that Icould hear the most, and those
voices were very confining forme.
It's very nice to know thatthere are other swaths of people
out there who are in support ofhow I carry myself, who like
(39:05):
how I move around the earth, andthat empowers me to be more of
myself.
So I don't know.
That's pretty good.
I guess that's it.
Is there anything else you'dlike to say about queerbaiting.
Did we answer all the questions?
Speaker 3 (39:20):
I mean, yeah, I think you just answered the one about
whether or not you think you'redoing it, I think, or why you
think you're not doing it,because it already aligns with
your personality, or, like Ithink I'm.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
I don't think my answer on that is like clear.
I think it, because I think ithas parts of both.
Like I do think I'm.
I am a media executive.
Like I do want these people tocontinue to follow.
Now I'm enjoying it.
(40:00):
I like I'm.
I watched the little Nas X doclast night, like out of and just
to be clear, out of curiosity.
Like I, I love watching artistsdocs, I love watching music
people docs, I love watching theperform, I love watching
whatever.
But what I saw in that doc waslike A celebration of an
(40:20):
extremely Gen Z Queer artist andthe community that's following
him.
And I thought to myself, likethis is a huge community of
people who are this ready torally around someone who
(40:42):
represents their community.
And I know that that is notever going to be me and I don't
mean for it ever to be, I don'tknow.
I think this about a lot of likecommunities that stray further
and further away from like thewhite Protestant male ideal
Straight white Protestant maleideal.
It's like these communities arestarved for the shit that they
(41:05):
like.
Like black folks, we arestarving for good black shows.
We are starving for somebodythat looks like us doing
something interesting or cooland like.
I'm not of their community Iprobably am never going to be,
unless that's something thatchanges about people too, I
don't know.
But if they like me, because Idress a certain way and I move a
(41:28):
certain way and like, and alsobecause, like, I don't push them
away on purpose, I'm super goodwith that and I'm probably, I
probably am going to lean intoit yeah, I think I already am.
I mean, I'm not going to leanaway from it, I don't know.
Does that feel clear?
Yeah, all right.
Does anybody else want to weighin on this?
Speaker 3 (41:46):
My only thing, I guess, like you have to like
mention also is that, like theproblem with presenting as queer
when you're not, is that whenit comes down to it, and queer
people are being murdered andgay rights are being rolled back
and all that stuff, you are nota part of that group.
Speaker 1 (42:04):
How does pres what is , tell me what is?
How does one present as queer?
Speaker 3 (42:08):
I mean, I think like a common thing with queerbaiting
is, like at concerts, whenmusicians will like pull up and
make out somebody of the samegender just to like.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
Yeah, just to spice it up.
Speaker 3 (42:21):
Yeah, but it's like they're not actually interested.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
Oh, I think that's Well.
I would like to speak on that.
Speaker 3 (42:28):
But it's also 1248 by the way.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
All right, well, I'll make it quick, because I only
have a couple of things to sayabout this NBA thing.
Yeah, I mean, that is the otherLike.
So that's I'm glad you saidthat, because the moment that I
step outside of myself and whatI actually want to do, like how
I actually feel and what I wantlike to To generate more
(42:53):
interest from that particularaudience, I think all is lost.
Like everything then is broken.
Like starting with what'sinside me.
Like everything is broken.
The second that I'm willing tolie to kiss someone I'm not
attracted to, like for the sakeof, for the sake of like Like
(43:15):
stirring up and attracting moreof an audience.
I think that's, if that's notwho I actually am, I think
that's.
I don't even care about what itmeans for anybody else.
Like I hate that for me.
So, and it is bad because ofwhat it is for everybody, but
like I hate that for me.
If an artist will do thatbecause they think it's, they
(43:35):
think it's, they think it'sgonna help their audience growth
, that person is empty.
That means I.
Then I'm like, oh, they'll doanything Like what is the?
I mean, what will they not doif they could, if it's gonna
make people buy theirmerchandise more, like I do
think that's.
Yeah, I don't like that, Idon't like that.
(43:57):
But if I want to fucking looklike Jack Sparrow, like let me
have it, that's what I like,that's what I like.
All right, okay, we did it.
We're gonna talk about the AllStar game, which is like I even
just saying we're gonna talkabout it.
It feels like such a dead fish,but we're gonna do it Because
we have to, not because we haveto because I have things to say.
That's it, josh.
Did you have anything to add onthat?
Speaker 2 (44:18):
I did, but I'm a little short on.
We're short on time.
My opinion doesn't matter thatmuch.
Yeah, it does.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
Josh, josh, tell us, because who gives a fuck about
the All Star game?
The All Star game sucks.
Speaker 2 (44:28):
Yeah, actually.
Yeah, that's true, I do thinkthe All Star game sucks, and who
the hell still watches it?
But the only thing I'll say islike I'm not surprised.
It's funny, just add some extracontext into here.
I've had two or three clients,practically three clients,
specifically new ones, who havementioned or wanted to record
here and they're like oh, chadSanders records here.
That's part of the reason why Iknow and they are, that's fire
(44:52):
and they are and it's called,and two of them were queer, oh,
fire, and two of them were queer.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
That's so fire.
Speaker 2 (44:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (45:01):
That's so tight.
Okay, influencer hey.
Speaker 2 (45:05):
So, like when you told me, when you told me you
wanted, or when I heard aboutyou talking about the subject,
to me it wasn't surprising.
But to make this really quick,though, I think what they are
attracted to them being thequeer community, I think, from
my perspective that community alot of people of that community
have to grow up.
(45:26):
They have to repress who theyare.
They can't be their authenticselves, and it takes them a long
time to sort of figure out whotheir authentic selves Not all
of them, but a good majority ofthem have that as part of their
story and I think they're reallyattracted to anybody that
really is able to.
For example, I will call itradical self-expression and
radical authenticity, and Ithink that's part of what you, I
(45:47):
would say, ascribe to yourbrand, and I think that's a
large reason why they areattracted to you.
Outside of the obvious things,I would say, yes, your looks the
way you dress a little bit, butobviously.
But I don't see that asqueerbaiting.
I see that as you.
That's always been you.
You've never been anything else, and if anybody who talks to
you within five minutes knowsthat you're not queerbaiting.
Speaker 1 (46:10):
Yeah, right, yeah, and that's the other thing that
I'm like.
Thank you, josh, I don't give afuck about the All Star game,
all Star games.
All right, let me get my AllStar game shit off, and then
we're not even going to do music, we're going to keep talking
about this because, josh, thatwas so.
Thank you for telling us thatthat's so cool, bro.
All right, couple things Shit.
Can I just say really quicklywhy the All Star game is so ass?
(46:33):
Can you please keep that rightthere?
I'm going to probably forget alittle bit what you just said.
I'm going to all right, guys,guys, guys, guys, ladies,
gentlemen, everybody.
If the players don't care aboutthe game, I refuse to fucking
care about the game and I'mstarting to feel that, listen, I
am probably in the 99.99percentile of NBA fans on Earth.
(46:56):
There are few people who careand follow the NBA more closely
than I do.
If the players don't care aboutthe game, the All Star game,
the regular season.
Giannis himself said he does notwatch basketball games.
Why the fuck am I going towatch that?
I'm not a fucking plebe.
(47:17):
You don't just get to throwanything you want at me as a
product and I just have to drinkit down Like that's just,
that's like fuck off, I don'tcare.
Like you know what, I've beensaying this in private, so I'm
going to say it in public too.
I had an agenda.
I wanted to be in support ofall these NBA players with
(47:39):
podcasts.
These guys suck at podcasting.
There's like three of them whoare good.
The rest of them are fuckingterrible.
Dreymont Green good.
Paul George pretty good.
Jj Reddick obnoxious but good.
All the smoke.
(47:59):
Pat Beverly, all the smoke.
Retirees are better, like muchbetter.
They have perspective.
They're not in it.
In the same way, they're notprotecting allegiances.
I don't listen, I don't care, Idon't care.
I don't care.
I don't care.
I don't need to do businesswith any of you niggas.
I don't care if you like me ordon't.
I don't care if I see your tallasses outside.
(48:19):
I don't care, I don't care.
You guys are not good at this.
Stop it, don't stop trying.
I'm not saying that, but like,stop telling us you hate that.
Like telling us you don't careabout the game.
Stop showing us you don't careabout the game and expecting us
to keep showing up and listeningand watching.
Like, if you don't care, Idon't care.
(48:42):
I'll be there for the playoffs.
I actually feel that way.
I sound like an old white guy.
I don't mean to, but that's howI feel.
Okay, let's get back to this.
That's it, like that's my allstar game coverage.
Speaker 3 (48:53):
Sports segment.
That was our sports segment.
Speaker 1 (48:55):
Yeah, that should suck.
Adam Silver, figure it out.
I don't care, I don't care, Idon't care.
I can hear the voices of whatthey would say to this.
I don't care, I don't fuckingcare.
All right, assanti Black.
You know what?
Assanti Black?
Speaker 2 (49:11):
is no.
Who's that?
Speaker 1 (49:12):
He was the actor who played the lead, the lead.
Speaker 3 (49:15):
No, he was one of the leads.
Speaker 1 (49:17):
He was one of the leads when they see us, okay,
and he just he, random, oh I, heliked her something, one of the
reels, and I just followed upand was like hey bro, how'd you
find, how'd you find me?
And he said he found me throughthe show.
And then he said he wanted tocome on the show and do a
freestyle over the song Vulturesfrom the Kanye Vultures album.
(49:37):
I was like, okay, cool, comethrough.
Who else just told me they likethe show?
Lena Waise been fucking withthe show.
She's not going to come on theshow, but she said she will have
a private.
She's going to.
We're going to catch upone-on-one.
Aida is going to be our guestin LA.
The show is having.
It's having an impact.
(49:58):
Like what you just said aboutthe show or, I guess, about me,
but I think that's as extensionof the show is like that's fire,
like it's happening, it'shappening, I feel it happening.
Shaq obviously loves the show.
Huge fan, huge fan, whateverman.
I can watch Shaq on TV again.
(50:18):
I took like three weeks off ofhim.
Okay, I think, josh, I think younailed something and the one
thing that you said thatactually was true, but I need to
sharpen it, which is like yousaid.
This is how you are and whoyou've always been and,
truthfully, it is who I'vealways been, but it's not how I
(50:41):
have always behaved.
It's who I've been, but it'snot how I have been.
And that is because I felt sosquished by the pressure of one
specific type of conformity tothe straight black male
(51:02):
presentation Like you must, guys, and imagine, like, imagine
what a box that is for me.
When it's like nah, you'resupposed to be this height,
you're supposed to have thesemuscles, You're supposed to have
this chain, you're supposed tohave this car, you're supposed
(51:23):
to have a part of theaccoutrement that you're being
sold.
Is like you're supposed to havethis girlfriend who looks like
this, but who is an extremity,who's not actually like a person
.
It doesn't really fit any of usto.
If you look at it like this, ifyou're really looking at it,
but it's still so boxy I stillgo to my hometown.
(51:46):
I see it here too.
I mean it's not like, but Istill go to my hometown and I
see people still living likethey got bought on a rack at
Toys R Us with the same setup,and it hurts, it doesn't feel
good, and so I do think you'reright.
There's a level of expressionthat I think is celebrated.
(52:08):
I saw it while watching thatdoc next to it, and I also don't
wanna put all queer people in abox, because there's certainly
so many queer people who presentjust like you know, just like I
do, or did six, seven years ago.
There's a celebration ofthere's a release, there's a
celebration of I give up, ormaybe, if they see it better
(52:30):
than I do, like I realize, Iaccept myself, I realize this is
who I am.
No amount of trying to besomebody else for someone else
is gonna work.
So like, so fuck it.
I've been reaching out tosponsors for the last, or I was
reaching out to sponsors alllast night.
I probably reached out to like25 potential sponsors.
(52:52):
I'm like literally DMing off,like hey, this is who I am.
Look over here.
Look, look, look at DaxShepherd, look at Spike Lee,
look at Julie Bowen, look at allthis shit.
Give me money.
Basically, that's basically themessage.
Okay, look at my audience.
I know these people look whothey are 25 to 55 year old black
people, people of color, whitewomen.
(53:12):
I know you wanna sell shit tothem.
Let me help you.
Let me be your on the streetdrug dealer.
Literally reached out toDayquil and Nightquil.
Speaker 3 (53:22):
Let me sell drugs for you.
I should send them the sickreel.
Speaker 1 (53:28):
I mean, like I'm right here, we should cut this
up.
Like, come on, man, it's easy,talk to me, I'll help you, talk
to them.
I'm not gonna sell themanything I don't use or don't
like, but come on, and why don'tI just bring that up?
Oh, acceptance, self-acceptance.
While doing so, I also realized, oh, the first thing they're
(53:52):
gonna collide with after theyget past my pinned shit on my
Instagram is gonna be a reelwhere the first words out my
mouth are white people you guyslike mixed people better than
black people and if they can'tfuck with that, then I guess
they're the wrong sponsors forme.
Like, if they can't, you knowwhat I mean.
Like, if I got, it's not gonnawork, I can't.
(54:12):
It's a moving target for me totry to change what I have to say
and who I am to work for them.
So, like, fuck it.
I guess if they can't get withthat, then I'm just screwed.
But I don't think I'm screwed.
All right, it's one o'clock onthe dot, let's get out of here.
This has been Nothing Banerkythe show that explores sexuality
(54:33):
and queer baiting, and we did agreat segment on the All Star
game today.
So we will not be back onThursday.
We'll see you guys Tuesday,same time, right here.
Also, the live show audio willbe available for a few bucks on
(54:54):
Thursday because it costs moneyto do all this.
So like, come on, fuck with me,fuck with me, all right, that's
it.
Delicious music years into next.
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