As rain patters against the ground in Prospect Park, we record our first episode of Nothing But Anarchy outside. Keep an ear out for the birds chirping as Chad delves into the urgency to experiment with AI, The Breakfast Club and Reesa Teesa, Kevin Durant and embracing failure without excuses.
Tune in Tuesdays and Thursdays at 12PM ET to watch the show live on Youtube. Follow @chadsand on Instagram and subscribe to the Nothing But Anarchy Youtube channel for full interviews and more anarchy!
Executive Produced by: Chad Sanders
Produced by: Morgan Williams
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
This is like a field trip.
All right, welcome to anotherAnarchy.
We are in Prospect Park.
We just spent 30 minutes tryingto get the shot right because
this is our first time doing theshow outside in the elements.
We didn't mean to do the showin the elements, but it is.
(00:29):
I don't know what the word isfor this.
This disgust-o little trickleof sky piss is coming down on my
head.
Nobody's here in the parkexcept us pretty much.
There's been a few strollerswalking by, but we're going to
do the show.
So Morgan said she put on thedocket Top thing.
Top item is explain what thisexperiment is.
(00:54):
So there's a few things going onhere.
One is we do the show everysingle time from the Brooklyn
podcasting studio, which is avery nice studio, but I want to
offer to the audience like morevisually than what we can get
from the same studio backdropevery single time we do the show
(01:15):
.
So I called Morgan.
We talked about this briefly inour last episode.
But I called Morgan and I waslike hey, can we do the show
from some new locations?
Can we be outside?
Can we go in Prospect Park?
I'm actually impressed that wedid Prospect Park as the first
one, so that's pretty good.
I had envisioned more of like asunny, beautiful, sunshining
(01:37):
day and instead what we got wasthis but like, I actually think
this was in the plan because ifthere were a bunch of people out
here like lounging and stuff, Iwould probably feel a little
bit self-conscious about doingthe show out here.
So, anyway, blah, blah, blah,we are artists and we wanted to
do it and make it look beautiful, so I'm going to jump right in.
(01:58):
I am getting rain sprayed rightin the face, don't care, I'm
going to do this.
So the first thing on thedocket today, let me look and I
brought my scroll because nophones, because that would take
away from the beauty here butironically, what I want to talk
about is artificial intelligence.
(02:23):
We talked about artificialintelligence in the last episode
, but today I have actuallyspent I would say I've probably
spent 20 hours in the last fivedays tinkering with AI,
specifically tinkering with textto video tools for AI, like AI
generator tools, and as I wasgoing through it, I had some
(02:47):
thoughts.
I had some thoughts and I hadsome feelings and I was like all
right, when we do the show, Iwant to talk about how I feel
and how I think some of you allfeel about AI, and I'm going to
talk to a very specific oh,there's a really cute dog coming
.
I'm going to speak to a veryspecific type of person as I
(03:07):
talk about AI here.
Oh, my God, it's a puppy.
So, oh, my God, wow, so cute,okay.
So here's the thing Iunderstand and relate to the
resistance and the reluctance toembrace artificial intelligence
(03:28):
, especially and particularly AItools that are used to make
video.
Okay, hello, hi, baby, hi,booger, you're so precious.
Okay, bye, let me get into this.
Let me get into that, all right.
So here's the thing I relate to.
(03:55):
Here's what I'm trying to sayFuck, let me say it, god, let me
say it.
Okay, please, god, all right.
I relate to and understand theresistance that some people feel
to embrace, use, understand,learn about, tinker with the AI
(04:20):
tools that are being rolled outright now, specifically the ones
that are like text to visualgenerators.
I'm talking about there's.
In the last four or five days,I've probably spent 20 hours
experimenting with maybe 15 ofthese different tools, just to
see what I, as somebody who usedto work at Google and now makes
art for a living, I feel likealmost the perfect guinea pig to
(04:44):
go see what I can get out ofthese tools, to go see if I can
get something that's actuallygood out of these tools.
But before I even speak to whatI was able to get out of the
tools, what I want to say is Irelate so strongly to the people
who feel resistance to usethese things, and I want to talk
to a particular swath of thepeople in that group.
So there are some people whofeel a resistance to these tools
(05:07):
because they think that theyare going to make the art world
and the art industries worse.
Okay, they think that they'regoing to take humanity out of
art, take singularity out of art.
There's people who are likethis is going to ruin art, like
we're going to have computersand robots and geeks and tech
(05:28):
nerds sitting behind keyboardsmaking the movies, making the
music, making the images, makinglike every single visual that
you see on socials.
There are people who feel thatway.
I understand that fear and Idon't think it is an unbased
fear.
I do think this is going tochange art, especially massively
(05:49):
consumed art.
But I want to speak to adifferent subset of people.
There's some overlap here, butI want to talk to a very
specific set of the people whoare resisting AI, and that is
the people who are resistingbecause they are intimidated by
the idea of having to work witha new tool.
Okay, I'm going to say again, Iwant to speak specifically to
(06:12):
the people who are intimidatedby having to experiment with a
new technology to stay in theart game, or to even get in the
art game if you're not really init yet.
And I want to speak to thatgroup of people, because one
that is the group of people thatI have been a part of.
(06:33):
Like that is the group ofpeople that I have allegiance to
, that I belong to.
I'm just going to be superhonest about this.
It reminds me of coding.
When I worked in tech, I wasintimidated by the idea of
coding.
I looked at the industry itself, which was extremely white,
which was extremely sort of gatekept by the money that it took
(06:56):
to learn how to use the tools,by the people who are in charge
of the tools, by the people whotaught each other tools, by bro
culture, by Reddit culture, byGitHub culture.
I was intimidated by all ofthat, like I didn't, I didn't
think I belonged in that, and soI kept myself out of it
altogether.
I paid people to make stuffthat I could have learned how to
make myself, and it cost moneyand I paid for that later.
(07:17):
But in addition to that, likeanytime, you have spent as much
time as, for instance I'll speakfor myself like me or my
friends learning and practicingand trying to screen right, to
make things, to produce, todirect, to go outside with a
camera and do what we're doingright now, and then you see
(07:38):
something that's coming that canallegedly make that all easier
and more streamlined and moresimple, but also belongs to
someone that has the money tofinance it.
That's scary.
It feels like you're beingpushed out and I relate to that.
It's intimidating and the ideaof then being up against all
these newcomers, some of whomhave more information about
(08:00):
these tools, who have alreadybeen more native to these tools,
who have already experimentedwith them, who have more time on
their hands to just mess aroundwith them all day Like it feels
like an uphill climb thatyou're never going to be able to
compete with.
It feels like something you'renever actually going to have
solid footing in and it'sintimidating.
I relate.
I'm saying I relate to it, butthis is all I want to say.
(08:21):
It's happening, it's urgent, itis going down right now in
front of us, and you're not toolate to get involved and learn
how to use these tools.
They are basic as fuck right now.
They're so simple, they'rehonestly, they're trash, like
the stuff that comes out on theother end.
When you do all this tinkeringand messing with the scripts and
(08:42):
changing the templates andusing your little tokens that
you get to make five generationsa day or whatever.
What comes out on the other endlooks incredibly dystopian.
It looks so different than thefew that come out that we see
and we all talk about becausethey look so real.
Most of this stuff comes outlooking like some ridiculous
computer made video game.
That doesn't.
(09:02):
It doesn't even make sense.
It's not even coherent.
The images, the coloring is sooff, the fingers are messed up,
the faces don't make sense.
But their tools are learning.
I played with these tools likesix months ago and they were so
different than they are even now.
They're so much better now butthey're still so clunky and so
blocky and so basic that anybodyI could get a 10 year old to
(09:24):
mess around with them and figureout how to get out what they
want from them.
And this is the time, I think,right now, where experts on this
shit are going to be determined.
And I just don't like.
I just want anybody who feelsintimidated by these things like
I have been intimidated by themto know you still have this
moment, this exact moment tojump in mess with this stuff and
(09:47):
be one of those people who's infront of this, instead of one
of the people who gets leftbehind on this.
So I'm coming here with a fewtools that I have played with
that I think anybody can pick upand mess around with and get
something out of.
Those are deep brain video,flicky, fliki and then, of
(10:08):
course, chat GPT.
Like, just spend 10 minutestoday.
Just go, just think to yourselfOK, I want to create an image
or a video of X.
Go, sit down with one of thesethings and just spend like 10
minutes while you're on thesubway, while you're, while
you're waiting for somebodyoutside, while you're waiting
for your kids who are at school,while you're waiting for your
dinner to cook, like, just whileyou're doing nothing, sitting
(10:31):
on your ass watching TV.
Just spend 10 minutes messingwith this and I promise you will
see that this is not a blackbox.
This is simple.
Right now, this is like thisthis is a the sky is falling
moment.
You still have this moment toget your hands dirty, get your
feet wet with AI.
(10:52):
The train hasn't left thestation yet, so if you're one of
the ones look, if you're one ofthe ones is like I'm not
fucking with that.
That's going to ruin art.
I don't even want to get nearit.
What a privilege to feel thatway.
Don't do it.
If you're somebody who doesthis for a living or wants to do
this for a living, if you'reone of those people that's like
oh, art is so precious and therobots are going to ruin art,
and you know it's not going toruin art, you know it's not
(11:15):
going to have humanity in it andwhatever, whatever, I'm not
going near this.
Blah, blah, blah.
What a privilege for you.
You probably make a livingdoing something else and you
don't have to deal with this.
That's fine.
Please go sit over there to thepeople who do this for a living
or want to do this for a living, but feel intimidated by what
it's going to take to learnthese tools.
I'm trying to tell you youstill have this moment to put
(11:38):
your hands in it and figure itout.
It is not that complex.
The tools are clunky and basic,and if you do it now, six
months from now, you will nothave missed the train.
I know I'm like.
I know who am I being like.
I don't even know who's theperson that goes outside and
just yells at the clouds.
That's what I feel like rightnow.
I'm standing in the rain to tellyou this, but this is Chad
(11:59):
Sanders reporting live on theurgency of experimenting with AI
.
There's nothing but anarchy.
My notes are soaking wet so Ididn't get to use them.
Please, let's go to the tunnel,morgan, before we get pneumonia
.
Look at the birds.
They're so cute.
They're getting worms, allright, ok.
(12:20):
So we just moved from themiddle of the field over there,
where the puppy found us, tounderneath this arch, and we're
going to do segment two overhere.
So, ressa Tessa, this is goingto be an extremely internetty
segment, so prepare yourselves.
(12:41):
Morgan sent me a clip from theShade Room today and it was like
a carousel that had some of theinteractions that are happening
not in person but over, I guess, media waves between Ressa
Tessa and Charlemagne the God.
(13:02):
All right so and I don't wantto spend that much time talking
about, actually, to be honest,either, one of these people,
because this is a topic thatmakes me squeamish, because it
feels like a part of the cornerof the internet that I do not
want to be a part of, but hereit is.
I don't know how she woulddescribe herself, but she is.
(13:23):
I guess I can say she's a fatblack woman.
I think I'm supposed to andallowed to say that she is a
recent internet sensationbecause of her viral.
Well, the way she looks isrelevant to this, so that's why
I mentioned it, because it'scoming, it's going to come up.
She is a recent viral TikToksensation because she did a
(13:43):
series of TikToks like 50 or soof them which Morgan watched
much of it, not all of it, butbasically it was.
I think it was called who Did IMarry who the fuck did I marry?
And it is her, in so many words, telling the story of being
bamboozled by a guy that shemarried, lied about his whole
situation.
I have not watched it.
(14:04):
I don't even think that that mynot watching it is relevant to
what I'm going to say about this.
Now, there is a person who goesby a pseudonym, I'm sorry.
Well, yeah, a pseudonym, anickname Charlemagne the God,
who is a radio host here in NewYork City and has a giant
platform called the BreakfastClub.
The Breakfast Club is basicallylike, I think, as big as a
(14:29):
media entity can get withoutthat media entity ever being
accepted by white people andearning any sort of quote,
unquote, prestige, value inHollywood.
I think that is as big as youcan get without having any sort
of like actual crossover, and Ispend way too much time thinking
(14:56):
about and watching theBreakfast Club, trying to
understand how they were able toget to that size of platform.
I mean, I've watched it happen.
I was kind of there in thebeginning 12 years ago when they
had their first like viralmoment with Ray J, just like
watching how this thing has itblown up and expanded to such
enormous heights while neveractually crossing over.
(15:19):
I don't know if that's beenintentional by the Breakfast
Club.
I don't know if that sayssomething about race and media.
I don't actually understandwhat's going on there, but I pay
close attention to it.
The host, the main host of theshow, the big celebrity host of
the show, is Charlemagne the God.
This is review for like 95% ofthe people that listen to this.
But just let me get throughthis because there are some
others here.
He I think he would describehimself this way like he's kind
(15:44):
of an asshole, that's like hiswhole, that's his whole thing.
And he goes on the BreakfastClub and he says about this
woman.
He calls her I believe hecalled her a big back, which is
his way of referencing a fatperson, and he said the point
that he makes in this thing isthat she was bamboozled because
(16:07):
she's a big back Jesus and bigback people want to believe
somebody will love them, so theygo with whatever.
Somebody will tell them aboutwhy they love them.
Pretty mean.
In one of these clips that Iwatched today that Morgan sent
me, I see her on Tamron HallShout out to Tamron and she is
(16:27):
telling Tamron that, amongstwhen I went and googled her,
like she's everywhere right now,like she's doing all kinds of
interviews Her audience hasexploded.
She's on Tamron Hall givingthis emotional recount of how
Charlemagne's comments hurt herfeelings and the crowd is giving
her a lot of oh and a lot oflike.
You know they're, they're,they're going with it, they're
connecting with it and she'ssaying of everything that I have
(16:52):
heard or seen of people talkingabout me since this viral
moment, this is the one thathurt me the most, and I would
have to guess that that'sbecause the Breakfast Club is a
really big part of black culture.
I just got it.
I mean, it just is what it is.
There's no way around it.
It is a huge platform in blackculture, and so I think seeing
(17:13):
the bully on that platformchoose and point her out
specifically as somebody to diginto made her feel away, made
her feel sad.
Frankly, made her feel hurt andtriggered and self conscious.
I don't think I'm going to saywhat you guys think I'm going to
say here.
I think I don't.
(17:34):
If what you are expecting me tosay here is, like Charlemagne
is bad and he shouldn't besaying those mean things about
people, I think that's kind ofobvious.
So what I actually want to sayhere is a little bit different
from that, and it's somethingthat is relevant to me in my
real life right now.
As promised, I have begun theexercise, the, the, the, the
(17:56):
journey of going through all ofmy comments on Instagram and
responding to as many as Ipossibly can.
In doing so, I have beensurprised that 95% of what's
going on there is mostly justlike dialogue between people on
the subject matter.
Some people asking questions,some people giving long
(18:17):
paragraphs of spiel on theirpoint of view, etc.
Etc.
Etc.
Maybe 5% of what's there ispeople in short, quippy, not
even very clever ways, trying tojust be mean to me.
Today I saw one it was on theone about, like mixed race
(18:39):
couples.
Whatever it was this guy, itliterally his whole comment was
you got problems.
So I was like OK, thanks forthe feedback.
There was another guy who saidOn my Jay-Z take, which was
about Jay-Z being a little bitnervous and fumbling the ball
(19:00):
when he tried to go say histhing about Beyonce at the
Grammys.
The guy says something alongthe lines of like easy for you
to say with your tiny platformand something like if you had a
bigger platform, you wouldrelate to this.
And despite the discrepanciesbetween where I'm at on this and
where that guy was at, it hurtmy feelings a little bit.
(19:23):
I was like, oh, he's trying tomake me feel small and it hurts
when somebody tries to make youfeel small.
Another person called me MillieVanilli, which I just thought
was very funny and a dude that Iknow from college said that
about me like six years ago andI thought it was funny and I
still think it's funny and I dokind of look like Millie Vanilli
(19:43):
.
So I say that to say people gettheir shit off here.
We know that.
But this is, this is my thing,right, this is my thing about
the whole thing.
I there's such an echo in here.
I feel so big.
I think that we have a socialdisorder which is it needs a
(20:08):
name.
I don't know what the namewould be, but we think that
there is a detachment between usas who we are and like as we
actually are, and the ways thatwe use our voices and where they
show up in different dimensions.
Ok, I, as myself, like, if Iwrite something in a book, if I
(20:35):
write it in a screenplay, if Iwrite it on Twitter, if I write
it on, if I speak it onInstagram, morgan, you can hold
me to this.
This, the person stands on allof that.
You will not take me to task onsomething that was written or
said somewhere, somewhere, andmy response to be yeah, but I
(20:56):
just meant that on the internet.
Like, if I say it, I really meanit, I don't mean to bend my
fingers to write something downthat doesn't actually represent
who I am and how I feel, andthat means and I'm in like this
is a difficulty with the job.
If it hurts my mom's feelings,guess what?
Me and my mom are going to haveto talk about it.
(21:17):
If it makes my sister mad,we're going to have to figure it
out.
If it makes somebody want tobeat me up, I got to deal with
that later.
Like we don't, we're notavatars.
We don't have avatars.
If you publish it, I believeyou, and not even necessarily
that I believe you, but Ibelieve that that represents you
.
That's what you meant to gointo the world as you.
(21:40):
So for Resta Tessa, she choseTruly, like she chose, to shoot
her shot at fame by telling thisstory.
When we put a TikTok up, whenwe put a reel up, it is all of
our combined ambition, unlessyou put it on that friends and
(22:01):
family joint, or whatever thatlittle thing is called, where
you can only only like closefriends can see it.
We can splice it up a bunch ofdifferent ways and pretend, but
every single time we press enterto shoot something off into the
social sphere, there's a littlebit or a big bit of you.
That is a hope and a prayer,that that is going to go viral
(22:21):
and it's going to change yourlife and when that happens, you
and your voice and your storyand all these other things that
go with it, they go into theinternet now and that's where
there are people likeCharlemagne the God waiting to
have you as a Thanksgivingturkey.
And you don't like.
(22:42):
This is.
This is now.
I want to stop my feet because,more like Morgan said, I do
like I do like.
Once you press publish oneverything, on anything, you
don't get to control what thenhappens to your thing.
You guys, you keep postingphotos of your kids.
We are allowed to say your kidsare ugly, we are, you are
(23:06):
you're.
It doesn't.
This is.
If we don't separate all thesedifferent industries and all
these different mediums, theyall belong to the same thing,
which is this is the publishingindustry.
Once you put something out intothe world, it belongs to all of
us.
We can do whatever we want withit.
That includes your image.
(23:26):
That includes your story whereyou tell us that your partner
stole from you.
You know what I mean.
Like you wanted to tell yourstory and get some verb behind
it and have people celebrate itand see themselves in it, and
you got all of that.
You're sitting with Tamron Hallright now.
You don't also then get to cutout the side of this entire
(23:49):
thing which is people poking atit and being assholes and being
mean, because that is part andparcel.
It doesn't work with onewithout the other.
So the thing that I wannaunderscore here is it's a lesson
to me, I think it's a lesson toeverybody, I think it's
something that I feel strongconviction about, which is what
(24:11):
you publish.
Publishing isn't just a book,it's not just a song, it's not a
poem.
What you publish is anythingthat you put out into public
that has your name on it andyour image next to it.
You're responsible for it, andif somebody takes you to
responsibility on it, there'snobody else to help you.
(24:33):
Like, it is just so Okay.
So the NBA playoffs are aboutsix weeks away.
There are about 20 gamesremaining in the regular season,
and something interesting ishappening in the Western
Conference, which is that thereis a strong chance that we will
(24:55):
end up with, as the four teamsin the play and tournament, the
Lakers, the Warriors, the Sunsand the Mavericks, which would
be a star power for the play-infor the one game, sort of like
one game elimination play-intournament that I bet the NBA
never in their wildest dreamscould imagine would be so
(25:16):
marketable.
So that would be Braun, anthonyDavis, steph Curry, dre
Montgomery, clay Thompson, kevinDurant, devin Booker, bradley
Beal, luca Donchich, kyrieIrving, all playing for two
playoff spots which wouldhonestly just be like dessert
(25:38):
for any sort of NBA fan, like,no matter how big or small.
And as that approaches and as Ithink about that one game
elimination thing, I've beenthinking about sports arguments
and sports takes latelyregarding players and how they
are remembered historically.
Kevin Durant, when Kevin Durantcomes up and, to a lesser
(26:05):
extent, other guys, lebron beingone of them but like Kevin
Durant comes up and he's, in myopinion, a litmus test for how
people look at their own lives.
And that's what sports is.
It is a backdrop, it's a passback or a mirror for us to see
ourselves.
It's a story.
Ultimately, like every seasonis a story playing out in front
of us, and stories are wherewe're supposed to see ourselves.
(26:28):
So Kevin Durant is a litmustest to me, because Kevin Durant
is, as I see him, one of thethree to five most gifted
basketball players of all timeand he has only, in 17 years,
two rings I'm sorry, yeah, tworings and one MVP to show for it
.
(26:48):
And when arguments around KevinDurant come up, there are,
generally speaking, two sides tothe argument.
There's the side for KevinDurant, which says Kevin Durant
never got what he needed interms of the right environment
to be one of the guys who winsfour, five, six championships.
(27:11):
He never had the right set ofteammates who were healthy when
it mattered most.
He never had the right sort ofcoaching and organization behind
him that could keep him incontention Year over year over
year.
Some people will say his bodyfilled him or his teammates'
bodies filled him.
These are and, as you can tell,I'm struggling with the
(27:34):
arguments for because I'm on theother side of this.
The other side of this is, ifKevin Durant I've been watching
Kevin Durant play basketballsince I was in person in
Maryland, since I was 14.
And if Kevin Durant finisheshis NBA career with just two NBA
championships, that feels to melike a colossal disappointment,
(27:56):
just for the talent that he hasand regardless of the factors
of his teammates' health andbeing on the right squads and
what he was up against, and theLeBron James Heat and the
Warriors and all these otherthings that come up.
That's a failure, in my opinion.
Why I think this is a litmustest for how people see their
(28:18):
own lives is that thing in usthat makes us want to explain a
way.
Every failure, in my opinion,is very haunting.
It's like a voice that you haveto live with all the time, and
it's one that almostcharacterizes your own life as a
(28:40):
failure the more you speak tothat voice.
There are Dozens and dozens anddozens of failures in front of
every single one of us.
Right Like jobs will fail,career ventures will fail,
marriages will fail, we willfail our children in different
ways, we will fail ourselves bynot trying at certain things.
(29:01):
But the voice that tells youthat the reason why you fail is
circumstantial, it's about theenvironment, it's about not
having the right budget, it'sabout not having the right
people behind you, it's aboutnot having somebody next to you
who could have kept the fuel andthe thing going, or not having
the right teammates, or whatever, whatever it is, in my opinion,
a very dangerous voice.
(29:22):
It's a voice that takes you outof the present.
It's a voice that takes you outof yourself.
Where I deal with that voice inparticular is telling myself
damn, like Chad, why haven't you, why haven't you sold a movie
that's been made yet?
Why hasn't your shit blown upto the point where you're
printing money at this point?
Why do you not have the biggestwhatever, whatever in whatever
(29:48):
whatever?
And every second that I spendtalking to that voice and
excusing away like everythingthat I'm doing is, in my opinion
, like a rejection of everythingthat's great in my life right
now, and that's a waste of mytime and that's a waste of
everybody's time, and I thinkthat's a waste of time when we
talk about people like KevinDurant.
(30:09):
So that's it.
Okay, we did this in the rain,we're outside and we'll see you
guys on Thursday at noon in thewarmth of the Brooklyn
Podcasting Studio.
Goodbye.
This is like a field trip.
All right, welcome to anotherAnarchy.
We are in Prospect Park.
We just spent 30 minutes tryingto get the shot right because
this is our first time doing theshow outside in the elements.
We didn't mean to do the showin the elements, but it is.
(00:29):
I don't know what the word isfor this.
This disgust-o little trickleof sky piss is coming down on my
head.
Nobody's here in the parkexcept us pretty much.
There's been a few strollerswalking by, but we're going to
do the show.
So Morgan said she put on thedocket Top thing.
Top item is explain what thisexperiment is.
(00:54):
So there's a few things going onhere.
One is we do the show everysingle time from the Brooklyn
podcasting studio, which is avery nice studio, but I want to
offer to the audience like morevisually than what we can get
from the same studio backdropevery single time we do the show
(01:15):
.
So I called Morgan.
We talked about this briefly inour last episode.
But I called Morgan and I waslike hey, can we do the show
from some new locations?
Can we be outside?
Can we go in Prospect Park?
I'm actually impressed that wedid Prospect Park as the first
one, so that's pretty good.
I had envisioned more of like asunny, beautiful, sunshining
(01:37):
day and instead what we got wasthis but like, I actually think
this was in the plan because ifthere were a bunch of people out
here like lounging and stuff, Iwould probably feel a little
bit self-conscious about doingthe show out here.
So, anyway, blah, blah, blah,we are artists and we wanted to
do it and make it look beautiful, so I'm going to jump right in.
(01:58):
I am getting rain sprayed rightin the face, don't care, I'm
going to do this.
So the first thing on thedocket today, let me look and I
brought my scroll because nophones, because that would take
away from the beauty here butironically, what I want to talk
about is artificial intelligence.
(02:23):
We talked about artificialintelligence in the last episode
, but today I have actuallyspent I would say I've probably
spent 20 hours in the last fivedays tinkering with AI,
specifically tinkering with textto video tools for AI, like AI
generator tools, and as I wasgoing through it, I had some
(02:47):
thoughts.
I had some thoughts and I hadsome feelings and I was like all
right, when we do the show, Iwant to talk about how I feel
and how I think some of you allfeel about AI, and I'm going to
talk to a very specific oh,there's a really cute dog coming
.
I'm going to speak to a veryspecific type of person as I
(03:07):
talk about AI here.
Oh, my God, it's a puppy.
So, oh, my God, wow, so cute,okay.
So here's the thing Iunderstand and relate to the
resistance and the reluctance toembrace artificial intelligence
(03:28):
, especially and particularly AItools that are used to make
video.
Okay, hello, hi, baby, hi,booger, you're so precious.
Okay, bye, let me get into this.
Let me get into that, all right.
So here's the thing I relate to.
(03:55):
Here's what I'm trying to sayFuck, let me say it, god, let me
say it.
Okay, please, god, all right.
I relate to and understand theresistance that some people feel
to embrace, use, understand,learn about, tinker with the AI
(04:20):
tools that are being rolled outright now, specifically the ones
that are like text to visualgenerators.
I'm talking about there's.
In the last four or five days,I've probably spent 20 hours
experimenting with maybe 15 ofthese different tools, just to
see what I, as somebody who usedto work at Google and now makes
art for a living, I feel likealmost the perfect guinea pig to
(04:44):
go see what I can get out ofthese tools, to go see if I can
get something that's actuallygood out of these tools.
But before I even speak to whatI was able to get out of the
tools, what I want to say is Irelate so strongly to the people
who feel resistance to usethese things, and I want to talk
to a particular swath of thepeople in that group.
So there are some people whofeel a resistance to these tools
(05:07):
because they think that theyare going to make the art world
and the art industries worse.
Okay, they think that they'regoing to take humanity out of
art, take singularity out of art.
There's people who are likethis is going to ruin art, like
we're going to have computersand robots and geeks and tech
(05:28):
nerds sitting behind keyboardsmaking the movies, making the
music, making the images, makinglike every single visual that
you see on socials.
There are people who feel thatway.
I understand that fear and Idon't think it is an unbased
fear.
I do think this is going tochange art, especially massively
(05:49):
consumed art.
But I want to speak to adifferent subset of people.
There's some overlap here, butI want to talk to a very
specific set of the people whoare resisting AI, and that is
the people who are resistingbecause they are intimidated by
the idea of having to work witha new tool.
Okay, I'm going to say again, Iwant to speak specifically to
(06:12):
the people who are intimidatedby having to experiment with a
new technology to stay in theart game, or to even get in the
art game if you're not really init yet.
And I want to speak to thatgroup of people, because one
that is the group of people thatI have been a part of.
(06:33):
Like that is the group ofpeople that I have allegiance to
, that I belong to.
I'm just going to be superhonest about this.
It reminds me of coding.
When I worked in tech, I wasintimidated by the idea of
coding.
I looked at the industry itself, which was extremely white,
which was extremely sort of gatekept by the money that it took
(06:56):
to learn how to use the tools,by the people who are in charge
of the tools, by the people whotaught each other tools, by bro
culture, by Reddit culture, byGitHub culture.
I was intimidated by all ofthat, like I didn't, I didn't
think I belonged in that, and soI kept myself out of it
altogether.
I paid people to make stuffthat I could have learned how to
make myself, and it cost moneyand I paid for that later.
(07:17):
But in addition to that, likeanytime, you have spent as much
time as, for instance I'll speakfor myself like me or my
friends learning and practicingand trying to screen right, to
make things, to produce, todirect, to go outside with a
camera and do what we're doingright now, and then you see
(07:38):
something that's coming that canallegedly make that all easier
and more streamlined and moresimple, but also belongs to
someone that has the money tofinance it.
That's scary.
It feels like you're beingpushed out and I relate to that.
It's intimidating and the ideaof then being up against all
these newcomers, some of whomhave more information about
(08:00):
these tools, who have alreadybeen more native to these tools,
who have already experimentedwith them, who have more time on
their hands to just mess aroundwith them all day Like it feels
like an uphill climb thatyou're never going to be able to
compete with.
It feels like something you'renever actually going to have
solid footing in and it'sintimidating.
I relate.
I'm saying I relate to it, butthis is all I want to say.
(08:21):
It's happening, it's urgent, itis going down right now in
front of us, and you're not toolate to get involved and learn
how to use these tools.
They are basic as fuck right now.
They're so simple, they'rehonestly, they're trash, like
the stuff that comes out on theother end.
When you do all this tinkeringand messing with the scripts and
(08:42):
changing the templates andusing your little tokens that
you get to make five generationsa day or whatever.
What comes out on the other endlooks incredibly dystopian.
It looks so different than thefew that come out that we see
and we all talk about becausethey look so real.
Most of this stuff comes outlooking like some ridiculous
computer made video game.
That doesn't.
(09:02):
It doesn't even make sense.
It's not even coherent.
The images, the coloring is sooff, the fingers are messed up,
the faces don't make sense.
But their tools are learning.
I played with these tools likesix months ago and they were so
different than they are even now.
They're so much better now butthey're still so clunky and so
blocky and so basic that anybodyI could get a 10 year old to
(09:24):
mess around with them and figureout how to get out what they
want from them.
And this is the time, I think,right now, where experts on this
shit are going to be determined.
And I just don't like.
I just want anybody who feelsintimidated by these things like
I have been intimidated by themto know you still have this
moment, this exact moment tojump in mess with this stuff and
(09:47):
be one of those people who's infront of this, instead of one
of the people who gets leftbehind on this.
So I'm coming here with a fewtools that I have played with
that I think anybody can pick upand mess around with and get
something out of.
Those are deep brain video,flicky, fliki and then, of
(10:08):
course, chat GPT.
Like, just spend 10 minutestoday.
Just go, just think to yourselfOK, I want to create an image
or a video of X.
Go, sit down with one of thesethings and just spend like 10
minutes while you're on thesubway, while you're, while
you're waiting for somebodyoutside, while you're waiting
for your kids who are at school,while you're waiting for your
dinner to cook, like, just whileyou're doing nothing, sitting
(10:31):
on your ass watching TV.
Just spend 10 minutes messingwith this and I promise you will
see that this is not a blackbox.
This is simple.
Right now, this is like thisthis is a the sky is falling
moment.
You still have this moment toget your hands dirty, get your
feet wet with AI.
(10:52):
The train hasn't left thestation yet, so if you're one of
the ones look, if you're one ofthe ones is like I'm not
fucking with that.
That's going to ruin art.
I don't even want to get nearit.
What a privilege to feel thatway.
Don't do it.
If you're somebody who doesthis for a living or wants to do
this for a living, if you'reone of those people that's like
oh, art is so precious and therobots are going to ruin art,
and you know it's not going toruin art, you know it's not
(11:15):
going to have humanity in it andwhatever, whatever, I'm not
going near this.
Blah, blah, blah.
What a privilege for you.
You probably make a livingdoing something else and you
don't have to deal with this.
That's fine.
Please go sit over there to thepeople who do this for a living
or want to do this for a living, but feel intimidated by what
it's going to take to learnthese tools.
I'm trying to tell you youstill have this moment to put
(11:38):
your hands in it and figure itout.
It is not that complex.
The tools are clunky and basic,and if you do it now, six
months from now, you will nothave missed the train.
I know I'm like.
I know who am I being like.
I don't even know who's theperson that goes outside and
just yells at the clouds.
That's what I feel like rightnow.
I'm standing in the rain to tellyou this, but this is Chad
(11:59):
Sanders reporting live on theurgency of experimenting with AI
.
There's nothing but anarchy.
My notes are soaking wet so Ididn't get to use them.
Please, let's go to the tunnel,morgan, before we get pneumonia
.
Look at the birds.
They're so cute.
They're getting worms, allright, ok.
(12:20):
So we just moved from themiddle of the field over there,
where the puppy found us, tounderneath this arch, and we're
going to do segment two overhere.
So, ressa Tessa, this is goingto be an extremely internetty
segment, so prepare yourselves.
(12:41):
Morgan sent me a clip from theShade Room today and it was like
a carousel that had some of theinteractions that are happening
not in person but over, I guess, media waves between Ressa
Tessa and Charlemagne the God.
(13:02):
All right so and I don't wantto spend that much time talking
about, actually, to be honest,either, one of these people,
because this is a topic thatmakes me squeamish, because it
feels like a part of the cornerof the internet that I do not
want to be a part of, but hereit is.
I don't know how she woulddescribe herself, but she is.
(13:23):
I guess I can say she's a fatblack woman.
I think I'm supposed to andallowed to say that she is a
recent internet sensationbecause of her viral.
Well, the way she looks isrelevant to this, so that's why
I mentioned it, because it'scoming, it's going to come up.
She is a recent viral TikToksensation because she did a
(13:43):
series of TikToks like 50 or soof them which Morgan watched
much of it, not all of it, butbasically it was.
I think it was called who Did IMarry who the fuck did I marry?
And it is her, in so many words, telling the story of being
bamboozled by a guy that shemarried, lied about his whole
situation.
I have not watched it.
(14:04):
I don't even think that that mynot watching it is relevant to
what I'm going to say about this.
Now, there is a person who goesby a pseudonym, I'm sorry.
Well, yeah, a pseudonym, anickname Charlemagne the God,
who is a radio host here in NewYork City and has a giant
platform called the BreakfastClub.
The Breakfast Club is basicallylike, I think, as big as a
(14:29):
media entity can get withoutthat media entity ever being
accepted by white people andearning any sort of quote,
unquote, prestige, value inHollywood.
I think that is as big as youcan get without having any sort
of like actual crossover, and Ispend way too much time thinking
(14:56):
about and watching theBreakfast Club, trying to
understand how they were able toget to that size of platform.
I mean, I've watched it happen.
I was kind of there in thebeginning 12 years ago when they
had their first like viralmoment with Ray J, just like
watching how this thing has itblown up and expanded to such
enormous heights while neveractually crossing over.
(15:19):
I don't know if that's beenintentional by the Breakfast
Club.
I don't know if that sayssomething about race and media.
I don't actually understandwhat's going on there, but I pay
close attention to it.
The host, the main host of theshow, the big celebrity host of
the show, is Charlemagne the God.
This is review for like 95% ofthe people that listen to this.
But just let me get throughthis because there are some
others here.
He I think he would describehimself this way like he's kind
(15:44):
of an asshole, that's like hiswhole, that's his whole thing.
And he goes on the BreakfastClub and he says about this
woman.
He calls her I believe hecalled her a big back, which is
his way of referencing a fatperson, and he said the point
that he makes in this thing isthat she was bamboozled because
(16:07):
she's a big back Jesus and bigback people want to believe
somebody will love them, so theygo with whatever.
Somebody will tell them aboutwhy they love them.
Pretty mean.
In one of these clips that Iwatched today that Morgan sent
me, I see her on Tamron HallShout out to Tamron and she is
(16:27):
telling Tamron that, amongstwhen I went and googled her,
like she's everywhere right now,like she's doing all kinds of
interviews Her audience hasexploded.
She's on Tamron Hall givingthis emotional recount of how
Charlemagne's comments hurt herfeelings and the crowd is giving
her a lot of oh and a lot oflike.
You know they're, they're,they're going with it, they're
connecting with it and she'ssaying of everything that I have
(16:52):
heard or seen of people talkingabout me since this viral
moment, this is the one thathurt me the most, and I would
have to guess that that'sbecause the Breakfast Club is a
really big part of black culture.
I just got it.
I mean, it just is what it is.
There's no way around it.
It is a huge platform in blackculture, and so I think seeing
(17:13):
the bully on that platformchoose and point her out
specifically as somebody to diginto made her feel away, made
her feel sad.
Frankly, made her feel hurt andtriggered and self conscious.
I don't think I'm going to saywhat you guys think I'm going to
say here.
I think I don't.
(17:34):
If what you are expecting me tosay here is, like Charlemagne
is bad and he shouldn't besaying those mean things about
people, I think that's kind ofobvious.
So what I actually want to sayhere is a little bit different
from that, and it's somethingthat is relevant to me in my
real life right now.
As promised, I have begun theexercise, the, the, the, the
(17:56):
journey of going through all ofmy comments on Instagram and
responding to as many as Ipossibly can.
In doing so, I have beensurprised that 95% of what's
going on there is mostly justlike dialogue between people on
the subject matter.
Some people asking questions,some people giving long
(18:17):
paragraphs of spiel on theirpoint of view, etc.
Etc.
Etc.
Maybe 5% of what's there ispeople in short, quippy, not
even very clever ways, trying tojust be mean to me.
Today I saw one it was on theone about, like mixed race
(18:39):
couples.
Whatever it was this guy, itliterally his whole comment was
you got problems.
So I was like OK, thanks forthe feedback.
There was another guy who saidOn my Jay-Z take, which was
about Jay-Z being a little bitnervous and fumbling the ball
(19:00):
when he tried to go say histhing about Beyonce at the
Grammys.
The guy says something alongthe lines of like easy for you
to say with your tiny platformand something like if you had a
bigger platform, you wouldrelate to this.
And despite the discrepanciesbetween where I'm at on this and
where that guy was at, it hurtmy feelings a little bit.
(19:23):
I was like, oh, he's trying tomake me feel small and it hurts
when somebody tries to make youfeel small.
Another person called me MillieVanilli, which I just thought
was very funny and a dude that Iknow from college said that
about me like six years ago andI thought it was funny and I
still think it's funny and I dokind of look like Millie Vanilli
(19:43):
.
So I say that to say people gettheir shit off here.
We know that.
But this is, this is my thing,right, this is my thing about
the whole thing.
I there's such an echo in here.
I feel so big.
I think that we have a socialdisorder which is it needs a
(20:08):
name.
I don't know what the namewould be, but we think that
there is a detachment between usas who we are and like as we
actually are, and the ways thatwe use our voices and where they
show up in different dimensions.
Ok, I, as myself, like, if Iwrite something in a book, if I
(20:35):
write it in a screenplay, if Iwrite it on Twitter, if I write
it on, if I speak it onInstagram, morgan, you can hold
me to this.
This, the person stands on allof that.
You will not take me to task onsomething that was written or
said somewhere, somewhere, andmy response to be yeah, but I
(20:56):
just meant that on the internet.
Like, if I say it, I really meanit, I don't mean to bend my
fingers to write something downthat doesn't actually represent
who I am and how I feel, andthat means and I'm in like this
is a difficulty with the job.
If it hurts my mom's feelings,guess what?
Me and my mom are going to haveto talk about it.
(21:17):
If it makes my sister mad,we're going to have to figure it
out.
If it makes somebody want tobeat me up, I got to deal with
that later.
Like we don't, we're notavatars.
We don't have avatars.
If you publish it, I believeyou, and not even necessarily
that I believe you, but Ibelieve that that represents you
.
That's what you meant to gointo the world as you.
(21:40):
So for Resta Tessa, she choseTruly, like she chose, to shoot
her shot at fame by telling thisstory.
When we put a TikTok up, whenwe put a reel up, it is all of
our combined ambition, unlessyou put it on that friends and
(22:01):
family joint, or whatever thatlittle thing is called, where
you can only only like closefriends can see it.
We can splice it up a bunch ofdifferent ways and pretend, but
every single time we press enterto shoot something off into the
social sphere, there's a littlebit or a big bit of you.
That is a hope and a prayer,that that is going to go viral
(22:21):
and it's going to change yourlife and when that happens, you
and your voice and your storyand all these other things that
go with it, they go into theinternet now and that's where
there are people likeCharlemagne the God waiting to
have you as a Thanksgivingturkey.
And you don't like.
(22:42):
This is.
This is now.
I want to stop my feet because,more like Morgan said, I do
like I do like.
Once you press publish oneverything, on anything, you
don't get to control what thenhappens to your thing.
You guys, you keep postingphotos of your kids.
We are allowed to say your kidsare ugly, we are, you are
(23:06):
you're.
It doesn't.
This is.
If we don't separate all thesedifferent industries and all
these different mediums, theyall belong to the same thing,
which is this is the publishingindustry.
Once you put something out intothe world, it belongs to all of
us.
We can do whatever we want withit.
That includes your image.
(23:26):
That includes your story whereyou tell us that your partner
stole from you.
You know what I mean.
Like you wanted to tell yourstory and get some verb behind
it and have people celebrate itand see themselves in it, and
you got all of that.
You're sitting with Tamron Hallright now.
You don't also then get to cutout the side of this entire
(23:49):
thing which is people poking atit and being assholes and being
mean, because that is part andparcel.
It doesn't work with onewithout the other.
So the thing that I wannaunderscore here is it's a lesson
to me, I think it's a lesson toeverybody, I think it's
something that I feel strongconviction about, which is what
(24:11):
you publish.
Publishing isn't just a book,it's not just a song, it's not a
poem.
What you publish is anythingthat you put out into public
that has your name on it andyour image next to it.
You're responsible for it, andif somebody takes you to
responsibility on it, there'snobody else to help you.
(24:33):
Like, it is just so Okay.
So the NBA playoffs are aboutsix weeks away.
There are about 20 gamesremaining in the regular season,
and something interesting ishappening in the Western
Conference, which is that thereis a strong chance that we will
(24:55):
end up with, as the four teamsin the play and tournament, the
Lakers, the Warriors, the Sunsand the Mavericks, which would
be a star power for the play-infor the one game, sort of like
one game elimination play-intournament that I bet the NBA
never in their wildest dreamscould imagine would be so
(25:16):
marketable.
So that would be Braun, anthonyDavis, steph Curry, dre
Montgomery, clay Thompson, kevinDurant, devin Booker, bradley
Beal, luca Donchich, kyrieIrving, all playing for two
playoff spots which wouldhonestly just be like dessert
(25:38):
for any sort of NBA fan, like,no matter how big or small.
And as that approaches and as Ithink about that one game
elimination thing, I've beenthinking about sports arguments
and sports takes latelyregarding players and how they
are remembered historically.
Kevin Durant, when Kevin Durantcomes up and, to a lesser
(26:05):
extent, other guys, lebron beingone of them but like Kevin
Durant comes up and he's, in myopinion, a litmus test for how
people look at their own lives.
And that's what sports is.
It is a backdrop, it's a passback or a mirror for us to see
ourselves.
It's a story.
Ultimately, like every seasonis a story playing out in front
of us, and stories are wherewe're supposed to see ourselves.
(26:28):
So Kevin Durant is a litmustest to me, because Kevin Durant
is, as I see him, one of thethree to five most gifted
basketball players of all timeand he has only, in 17 years,
two rings I'm sorry, yeah, tworings and one MVP to show for it
.
(26:48):
And when arguments around KevinDurant come up, there are,
generally speaking, two sides tothe argument.
There's the side for KevinDurant, which says Kevin Durant
never got what he needed interms of the right environment
to be one of the guys who winsfour, five, six championships.
(27:11):
He never had the right set ofteammates who were healthy when
it mattered most.
He never had the right sort ofcoaching and organization behind
him that could keep him incontention Year over year over
year.
Some people will say his bodyfilled him or his teammates'
bodies filled him.
These are and, as you can tell,I'm struggling with the
(27:34):
arguments for because I'm on theother side of this.
The other side of this is, ifKevin Durant I've been watching
Kevin Durant play basketballsince I was in person in
Maryland, since I was 14.
And if Kevin Durant finisheshis NBA career with just two NBA
championships, that feels to melike a colossal disappointment,
(27:56):
just for the talent that he hasand regardless of the factors
of his teammates' health andbeing on the right squads and
what he was up against, and theLeBron James Heat and the
Warriors and all these otherthings that come up.
That's a failure, in my opinion.
Why I think this is a litmustest for how people see their
(28:18):
own lives is that thing in usthat makes us want to explain a
way.
Every failure, in my opinion,is very haunting.
It's like a voice that you haveto live with all the time, and
it's one that almostcharacterizes your own life as a
(28:40):
failure the more you speak tothat voice.
There are Dozens and dozens anddozens of failures in front of
every single one of us.
Right Like jobs will fail,career ventures will fail,
marriages will fail, we willfail our children in different
ways, we will fail ourselves bynot trying at certain things.
(29:01):
But the voice that tells youthat the reason why you fail is
circumstantial, it's about theenvironment, it's about not
having the right budget, it'sabout not having the right
people behind you, it's aboutnot having somebody next to you
who could have kept the fuel andthe thing going, or not having
the right teammates, or whatever, whatever it is, in my opinion,
a very dangerous voice.
(29:22):
It's a voice that takes you outof the present.
It's a voice that takes you outof yourself.
Where I deal with that voice inparticular is telling myself
damn, like Chad, why haven't you, why haven't you sold a movie
that's been made yet?
Why hasn't your shit blown upto the point where you're
printing money at this point?
Why do you not have the biggestwhatever, whatever in whatever
(29:48):
whatever?
And every second that I spendtalking to that voice and
excusing away like everythingthat I'm doing is, in my opinion
, like a rejection of everythingthat's great in my life right
now, and that's a waste of mytime and that's a waste of
everybody's time, and I thinkthat's a waste of time when we
talk about people like KevinDurant.
(30:09):
So that's it.
Okay, we did this in the rain,we're outside and we'll see you
guys on Thursday at noon in thewarmth of the Brooklyn
Podcasting Studio.
Goodbye.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!